We provide the information about the projects. We receive the information and monitor it. One Parkway would have been an example of that. With the renovation for One Parkway, there was no GPUAC involved in that. We had the total responsibility of monitoring that whole process from top to bottom.
I guess my concern is, still, that of 1,200 you don't know how many of the 1,200 have actually done business with the City. And I'm trying to still figure out why. And in the citing of NTI, which has probably 452 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET only done a few million in contracting, seems strange to me, that you would even cite NTI as opposed to what you've been doing over the last several years you've been in the position, in terms of tracking. NTI has done a few million in contracting.
Because I was trying to give an example of a project that was readily available, that was visual, that you knew about.
But I'm really asking for an example that doesn't include an NTI or a stadium and maybe not a One Parkway, but an example of how you monitor capital projects, which Councilwoman Miller has an interest in, or how you generally monitor professional service contracts. What monitoring process is actually in place for those type of things in general?
In general we provide a desk audit after we receive the contract and we review it. We send out a letter asking the firm if they have actually participated, what the dollar of the level of participation --
I'm talking about the tracking of your certified -- 453 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I can tell you from that vantage point, I think my most difficult aspect would be to tell you who hasn't bid. I can tell you who has, but I cannot tell you who's not.
So you can tell us how many of the 1,200 certified business have received work?
We're asking about your tracking process in terms of how can you tell us -- how do track that?
By using the documents that would come in from either the proposal or the bid contract.
My final question is around professional services. And let me put the context in place with hopes that I can ask this question properly. There are institutions in the City of Philadelphia that receive City support, City dollars. Less than half of their overall operational budget is supported by the City. When it comes to those institutions putting bids out for capital programs, one response I've heard is, "But this is a private project." Yet you're receiving City support at whatever level. Are there any requirements in place that sends a message that, private, public or otherwise, opportunities for women and people of color, they should still be granted an opportunity to bid in spite of the fact that it's a private project? Are there any requirements in place that say --
No, there are no requirements that are in place for -- if I understand this correctly -- for us to tell a private entity that they have to have --
That's receiving City dollars. That's a line item in our budget, in the 455 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET City budget.
Then we consider them a quasi City agency. If there's not a formal agreement between us -- and you'd have to give me an example of one of those entities -- then I can you specifically whether of not we have a relationship with them.
Okay. Speaking system-wide, there's no requirement on the book that say, even if you're a quasi public, you have to follow ABC procedures?
Under 193, it's a cooperative agreement that they provide that information and they participate. But there is nothing that requires them to do that. In the TIF activity that the City -- and I use the TIF because it comes through City Council -- in some cases, in the writing of the language, it specifies that Minority Business Enterprise will be responsible for monitoring the participation, or they have to use an MBEC-certified firm. We then can get involved with that process. If, in fact, they only use Title 3 language, then Minority Business Enterprise Council will not have any 456 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET leverage to request or demand information from them.
You're welcome. Councilwoman Miller, I understand you have a follow-up question.
I have a follow-up question regarding minority certification. There are a lot of questions today around that. In the seven years I've been here, there's always been questions and there continues to be questions. Because I know as a Councilperson -- I'll just speak for myself -- that we just don't feel that minority firms are getting their fair share. I'd like to know if the Mayor has created an Executive Board, or are we still using the Executive Order as it relates to the participation efforts requested from the City that we had before?
The Mayor has given his support to use whatever means that are legal and moral to increase the level of participation for minority, women and disabled businesses. We are still acting, though, under Executive Order 193, as we are under the re establishment of 17-500. 457 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Excuse me. We are reviewing a new Executive Order that Mr. Roundtree has prepared for implementation.
Okay. That's good. And I guess there are a group of people that's looking at this very closely and will be monitoring participation levels more closer. Public means public, and that means everybody. And I am very much concerned, as my colleagues, about the level of participation of minority firms. I have a question as relates to risk management. I'd like to know how many medical providers that we have serving injured City workers? What happens? A City worker goes where for medical service?
Norm Johnson, City Risk Manager. Ma'am, the medical providers as they are today are members of major providers, i.e., Temple University Medical Center, Roxborough, Nova Care. The question that you're asking, I have no idea any numbers specifically.
I'd like to know the number of minority medical providers that are 458 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET providing medical services to injured City workers.
I don't work with risk management. I have not a clue whether they're contracted, whether they're a part of Temple. MR, JOHNSON: If I may explain the situation. The City goes out and gets a third party administrator. At this time it's called Comp Services. They contract directly with the medical providers in order to determine prices, and those medical providers are made as part of a PPO, a preferred process. Employees go to those providers that are co-located with their addresses. As it stands today, I could not tell you how many of those providers hit the minority business or women.
Comp Services, I don't know. I can't answer for them. I know of one particular. It's a business called LaFortaleza that receives a large percentage of the City 's physical therapy and in-home services. They're the only agency that 459 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I know of directly that is fully a minority provider under the medical. But most of the medical providers to the City are major organizations. You know, we're talking about Temple or Hahnemann, whichever hospital it is. I would not be able to give you that information. I can ask Comp Services if they would ask the providers in their network to give them information about the balanced number of individuals on their staff, and whether or not they release that would be a question that the medical provider would have to make that determination on.
We contract directly with LaFortaleza because there was a problem with getting the utilization -- CSI would not utilize them until we contracted directly with LaFortaleza. And that's why we know about LaFortaleza. All of the others, because they don't have contracts with the City, we don't have the information and we're sort of captive to CSI's providing that information, if they have it.
And if I may just add one thing to that. I can request that from CSI. CSI is a member of the Independence Blue Cross. There may 460 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET be confidentiality issues with providers and all. I'll address that and I will get a return to the Council President and to the Members as to their response to your question.
Thank you. Because wouldn't the City have participation requirements to Comp Services or CSI?
There is directly with Comp Services. Comp Services must meet the requirements set up by MBE as to the number of individuals in their organization, but not to those individuals that perform medical services. Plus, we're talking about a very specific oriented-type contract in which only certain medical providers can perform because they have the facilities. You may have a group of doctors that would meet all the criteria as far as minority, but may not have the MRIs and the CAT scans and all the other issues that are needed in order for them to bid with CSI and with Independence Blue Cross in order to provide services.
Well, we understand that. And in their report they can say that, what they did to outreach, whether they were qualified 461 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people service areas. I understand in terms of equipment and whatnot, but they need to state that. I just need to know what it is.
I will ask that of them and their response I will get to Council.
Okay. Because it's my understanding there are no minority medical providers that are providing services to injured City workers. I'm not talking about that group you just talked about, but other than that, that's my understanding.
Thank you, Madam President. Could I have Mr. Roundtree, please? Mr. Roundtree, Ms. Davis, I'm going to give you this document after I quote from it. My question is about process. I have a letter dated October 1, 2002, and it is from a female that applied for a woman's disadvantaged business enterprise. She was written stating -- now, this is 462 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET interesting, because I don't know a business in the world that the top person has all the brains and all the knowledge to make it work. "Information and documents reviewed by this office reveal that" -- and I'll leave the last name out -- "does not possess the required technical expertise and experience to independently manage and control the daily operations of a firm, specializing in cleaning equipment and industrial portable heaters." Mrs. Brown clearly stated that she handles all the administrative work for the company and basically she depends on employees to make the company work, one being her son. To me, this sounds really outrageous that you would disqualify a person because they don't have the complete knowledge of how to change the buffing wheel on a buffer. I'm sure there's a lot of things in both of your operations that you don't have hands-on. Because I see a lot of managers in this government turning around saying, would you come up here and answer this question, or would you come up here and clarify. The bigger problem is that she wrote a letter to you, Ms. Davis, dated October 7th asking for an 463 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET appeal. She never heard a word. At least that's the information that I have. And I'll apologize if she did. I'll give you this document.
And we'll research it. We review and do appeals on everyone that we get. Thank you.
Not this one. Mr. Roundtree, I'd like you to comment on the fact that you disqualified someone because they don't have all of the knowledge to independently, quote, run that business. It sounds to me like you're asking for a person to know an operation to A to Z, and I hope that's not the case.
No, but we would like them to know from A to M, or A to P.
From our review, she didn't. Our review is subjective, of course, based on the criteria that we have. You have one sheet of paper here. You have her comments. We have about or 21 30 supporting documents that we used to illustrate 22 whether or not she can cause a direction of the 23 business. We didn't say that she had to have all 24 the expertise. She also has to have the ability to 25 cause a direction of the company. How was the 464 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET company formed? When was it formed? Who were the incorporators? All of that goes into whether they have the ability to do that.
Right. And her resume and any other additional information that she supplied for that basis did not indicate to us at that particular time she had the prerequisite requirements to do that.
October, November, December, January, February. No results of her appeal. Again, this isn't the Supreme Court.
Yes. That's a long time. In other words, why would she not, from what I understand -- and again, I'll be the first to apologize if she has heard. But let's assume she has not based on the information that I have. Should it take all these months to get a result?
Okay. So maybe there's just an Administrative glitch there. 465 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Ms. Davis, I want to go back because there's a lot of confusion on my part and I think people involving the DROP. Could you clarify me, clarify for the record, what the absolute purpose of the DROP program is? What was it supposed to accomplish when it was put into place?
I can tell you what DROP programs in other areas were, but Councilman Nutter said that at the time his recollection is that it was used as an early retirement incentive. That is not the reason it's been use in other places. It's been used as an incentive to hold those people who are close to retirement age longer, especially your uniforms who are able to retire at a much younger age and begin other careers. So I don't have the information on why it was implemented here. I will check in the Pension records -- well, that would have been the City Council mandate. I will attempt to discover why, but I do not know the reason. 466 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
So I would assume somewhere in a file someone created the DROP Program.
It was a legislation action. It was by an action of this Board.
But I'm assuming that the Finance Department at the time had some input on that, right?
I have no idea. I wasn't here at that point. I would have to do research and get back to you.
Okay. Let me ask you about the program. You stated something that caught my attention today, that people are leaving. The purpose of the DROP program was to retain people. But then there was something you mentioned about people leaving to go to the private sector. How would you know that?
That's not in this environment. It's in other environments. I was not referring to that happening here. In other cities where I 467 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET worked, where the economies and the job markets have been much more vigorous than that here, where there is a definite differential between government pay and the pay in the private sector. Employees would, in fact, leave government to go to higher paying jobs outside of government. Here, that difference is not there. So there is longer tenured employees here than there are with most governments.
How will, again, the other departments be affected? Will those jobs be eliminated? Will people be hired at lesser salaries? How exactly will those voids in the other departments that jobs are aren't eliminated be dealt with?
It is our intent that in those other departments that are not being held harmless, that 50 percent of the people will not be replaced, that there will be restructuring in the way that the work is accomplished. And that we will once again do more with less.
Through efficiencies? 468 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Through efficiencies and restructuring of operations and redirections of work.
I think it would be interesting for you to -- and for me -- whatever documents you can get for me to let me know exactly what analysis was done by the Administration. You indicated that, yes, it was a legislative action. But I'm sure before that legislation was adopted there had to be some studies or some information developed to see what impact there would be on this government.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Madam President, Councilman Ortiz asked if he could go.
The Chair will therefore recognize Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 469 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Councilwoman Miller was talking about medical services, and I'd like an answer in terms of the comparisons between what the non-represented City workers' medical plan looks like as compared to AFSCME, the FOP and the fire fighters, and what's the differences between us, the non-represented workers, and those three planets. And I know Ms. Berkowitz has the answers to that.
It's been requested and we're going to put together a report that identifies that.
Another thing that -- because we continuously go on with this. And the thing that really is shocking is the fact that after all of these years -- if Mr. Roundtree answers to Councilman Goode, if we really had good answers to the questions about minority and female participation, I'm sure that we would be putting those numbers up. If those numbers were exemplary and really be an inclusive in terms of the contracting that we have, I'm sure that we would have charts up there in color. We might even have a power presentation and computers with the names of each and every minority company and the contract they got highlighted. And 470 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET after 15, years of asking these questions and really not seeing any significant progress as we grow in population in this City and as we grow in numbers, it's really very disappointing. And the fact that you still have an Executive Order only in draft when this problem is a problem that is a recurring problem in every budget period. And that we continuously ask for progress reports just leads me to believe, where are we going? What priority do we give to this?
It is an important priority of 13 the Administration's and of mine, in particular. 14 We have done a lot of outreach. We have 15 created bonding programs and education programs. We 16 have credit repair. We have recently funded a special initiative in order to help minorities to become better able to do business.
Ms. Davis, excuse me, if I may. And I pardon my interruption. But the thing is that finance directors and other individuals have been saying that since the '80s, '90s, and now it's the year 2000. In other cities where minorities are very heavily represented, Atlanta, Chicago, all of these numbers really have gone up dramatically and 471 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET can be shown. And to me, the situation is that we continuously do this. And Mr. Roundtree could not even give Councilman Goode any indication of whether we were in single digits, double digits, or even whether he knew what minority firms were getting contracts. And that's something that should be known, should be there. And if we were being successful, I know that we would be charting that and we would have it in front of us and be bragging about how successful we have been. So the efforts are very nice and noticed. The results are dismaying. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And I'd like to add, there is dismay to us. It's disappointing to me that we're not performing at a higher level.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Roundtree, please approach the witness table again. Mr. Roundtree, you are drafting a new 472 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Executive Order?
It was based upon the information that we had at the time. That's what it's based upon.
It was drafted. The weaknesses and the nuances that we felt should be replaced from the existing Executive Order. We wanted to do what we call some creative things.
Is your answer to me that you drafted the new Executive Order based upon the old Executive Order?
No. If I can interject. I asked Mr. Roundtree soon after I got here and looked at the situation to look at what he felt he needed in an Executive Order or mandate in order to get accomplished what we want to have accomplished. To look at the old Order and look at its deficiencies.
Madam Director, you can 473 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET let him answer the question, because that was only the set-up question.
It's based on what we experience are the weaknesses of the prior Executive Order and where we are today as far as it relates to the minority and women business community.
So it is not necessarily based upon the requisite technical due diligence of actually finalizing a disparity study regarding disadvantaged businesses? I mean, can you at this point prove disparity? Have you done the technical due diligence to prove disparity?
Yes. I'm surprised you're asking me that particular question, because in August of last year we provided a copy of the disparity study to the Committee for Economic Development.
You provided the executive summary or the full disparity study?
The full disparity study. 474 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Councilman Nutter is looking at me questionable too. I had somebody deliver two volumes.
Let's move beyond that. If you have the benefit of a disparity study that proves disparity, are you prepared to move on and is the Administration prepared to actually draft new legislation?
Yes and no. 15 One of the things that has to happen is this Body has to hold legislative hearings to find fact of finding to determine whether or not the predicate that the study is based on is relevant for today's time and to come up with legislation that says, this is the Body that does that. We can make a recommendation --
The Administration cannot offer a Bill based upon a disparity study?
It will be defeated very quickly because what has to happen -- 475 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm asking a question of whether the Administration, based upon its disparity study, can offer a Bill based upon what it wants to do. I mean, the director says, she came here. She said essentially that she knew things were bad. She asked you to work on it. You completed a study. Based upon the study that was completed, could the Administration, based upon what it wants to do, draft legislation that it can submit to Council?
The process for legitimacy is the Council has to have a legislative process.
We have a hearing on every Bill that's introduced in City Council. Are you saying it has to be initiated by City Council or it has to considered by City Council?
I would doubt that very 476 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET seriously.
Okay. Then I will seek a legal response. I can tell you that this Administration is prepared to provide.
I can tell you that we absolutely cannot draft legislation based upon a disparity study we do not have.
Okay. My assumption was you had it. I got a request from Councilman Ortiz --
Would it be possible for us to have a copy of that?
So you assumed, as legislators, we had a copy of the disparity study and chose not to introduce legislation?
You assumed that we had a disparity study and no member of this Council would have chosen to introduce legislation based upon the findings of that disparity study?
It was not submitted to all the Members of the Council. It was submitted to the Commerce and Economic Development Committee. I got a request in August from Councilman 477 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Ortiz to provide this to this Council. He was having some kind of hearings and I was requested to provide that information to Council. I sent it over here to each one of the Councilmembers who were on that list. I haven't heard from anybody since that request.
Point of information. Mr. Roundtree, I got the disparity report not because you sent it to me. If you remember -- and we can go back to the minutes of the budget hearings. Because last year I asked questions based on the disparity report because I had gotten it the way we usually get things in this Council, not because we get it from the Administration, but because we get it from other sources. I had gotten a copy of the disparity report from your office. I can't say where I got it from. But I asked you questions about the disparity report during that budget. Not in August. I was going to have hearings August, but I used that information to use it in the budget hearings. I told you at that point when you asked me. I said, I have the 478 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET disparity report. And I will get you the budget hearing minutes in order to tell you that in detail.
And since then, I have made copies and I have given those copies to my colleagues, whoever has requested it of me.
Councilman Ortiz, I think our staff has been asking for that report for at least two or three years and we never got a copy of it.
Councilman Goode, I happen to have legislation based on that disparity report and it will be introduced.
I'm sure many Members of Council would have prepared legislation had they had a copy of the disparity report. Let me say this to you, Mr. Roundtree. As a member of the Executive Branch, I assume that you have 1,200 certified. You don't know how many of them have been given business.
I assume there is a member of the Executive Branch -- if you have 1,200 479 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people certified, you should know how many people are getting business. You should assume that a legislator -- if I had a copy of the disparity report, that I would have drafted legislation. But let's say that no member of this Council -- and Councilman Ortiz is the only one who had a copy of the disparity report because he had to supposedly sneak it. If no member of this Council decided to offer legislation based upon the disparity report that you definitely have, you would have not taken it upon yourself to suggest to the Administration that they offer legislation based upon the disparity report?
What I asked the Administration to do was to review it and we would have plans and hold strategy for that process.
I can't draft legislation for you. I can only submit it to my superiors. And the information that we had, we wanted to do a briefing to Council because a briefing had never been done either, so...
Thank you, Madam 480 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
I was going to add that the study itself, one of the reasons why we wanted to have a briefing for Council, it needs to be refreshed, the actual data. The information that's being bandied about and being requested needs to be put in that document to make it more relevant activity for today.
The number of contracts that the City has had, the level of participation, because, now, the premise that it's based on was, I believe, 1998 and it needs to be updated to 2003.
Well, let me ask this question. Has there been a request to have a briefing of City Council for this information?
We had made a request to Administration for the Administration to have the briefing, yes.
He has submitted a request. 481 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Yes, he has.
Has the Administration ever informed the Council President that you'd like to brief us on something?
We have not briefed the Mayor yet internally. Once we brief the Mayor.
So I assume you cannot brief us until you have that opportunity? And the information has been available since when?
Since August. And I'm astonished that now I'm hearing for the first time that you haven't received it. I received a direct request from the committee, from your subcommittee. I informed the Finance Director of that request and she gave me permission and authority to release it.
Let me put a little bit of clarifying information on the record. First, you are correct. I did seem somewhat incredulous at your statement. Now, we receive a lot of information. There's no question about that. Although, we actually generally don't get a ton of mail in August. And I was around last August. And if a disparity study had come to me, I think I would 482 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET remember it.
I remember all kinds of worthless pieces information that no one should be keeping track of. So if I got that, I think I'd pay attention to it. Secondly, if a Councilmember makes an individual request, regardless of what committee they're on, I would encourage you not to assume that that information is going anywhere other than to that Councilmember, regardless of what committee they're on. I'm on 10 committees on the Council and anything that I receive based on a personal request generally is not going anywhere, other than in my office. So if Councilman Ortiz, as is his right, makes a request for information, do not assume that it's going to the Committee on Commerce and Economic Development, of which I am Chair. Now, my recollection of last summer is that I think it was the US Commission on Civil Rights, didn't they have some hearings last year on this particular issue?
And there was a whole host of testimony. And I remember reading a Q and A back and forth that sounded like a combination of "Where's Waldo" and "Follow the Bouncing Ball," because no one at that time was willing to admit that they even had the study. The Law Department said they didn't have it. Public Property said they didn't have it. Procurement said they didn't have it. Finance said they didn't have it. No one was willing to admit they even had the dog-gone thing at that time, which is my recollection from reading the notes of testimony from what the US Commission on Civil Rights did. Is that your recollection?
No. Up to a point. We always acknowledged we had the report. And we acknowledged that it was a draft. It was not ready for public consumption.
Not ready for public consumption and possibly that you didn't have the authority to give it out; is that correct?
Because I got approval from 484 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the Finance Director.
No, no, no. Now, I stand corrected. Because my assumption since -- Council President Verna was right. Just about after every budget hearing, several weeks or months, the request came. I forwarded the information that I received. And then when Ms. Janice Davis became the Secretary of Financial Oversight, I sought her approval to, at that point, relinquish it because it was no longer a draft.
I'll tell you what we're going to do. One, for the record, I don't have the study. I don't have it from you. I have what Councilman Ortiz gave me, which virtually seems like almost a bootleg copy. It's the difference between getting DVD firsthand or somebody taking a video in a movie theater. I'd like the DVD version with the 5.1, okay? 485 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Second, we can have a hearing on the disparity study and we can have a resolution 4 introduced on Thursday in the Council authorizing the Committee on Commerce and Economic Development to have a hearing on that particular issue. But I think as Councilman Goode raised, it is not over here for us to make a process happen on a document that the rest of us don't even know exists. And if you're going to have new legislation or new Executive Order on this particular issue, it actually might be nice that some of the people who are responsible for what goes on in the legislative process might have a role in having a say on what's in the document before it comes over here. So we don't get to write Executive Orders, although some of us have been involved in that process and we've helped to shape and influence what an Executive Order says. We clearly are involved in the legislative process. So as the Councilman asked you the question, what's the Executive Order based on, or the next question would be, what would legislation be based on, I think it would be helpful if you dialogue with us about what a new Bill or a new 486 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Executive Order would look like, because some of us have some experience in this. I mean, you may recall, unlike maybe a colleague yesterday, I think you actually know that the MBEC was created by the City Council.
Not by the Executive Branch, who fought it tooth and nail.
So we actually do over here have a little bit of institutional history and knowledge about that department, what it does, what it's supposed to do, and what it could be for the City. So if you're going to have new legislation or a new Executive Order, I'd only encourage you to have a conversation with some of us before you put something forward.
Councilman, you wanted on that point. I'd like the opportunity to come back because I still had on the third round or fourth round some additional questions.
Mr. Roundtree, is this disparity study a draft or final? 487 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Specifically within the Administration, who determined that it was final?
So you've got a final document, but it's not your final document?
They submitted a final submission, but is it your disparity study?
Yes. That's what we paid for. It's going to be what we paid for.
Do you take ownership of 488 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET it now?
When? When did you make that determination? Who made the determination?
Collectively I did based on a conversation I had with the Law Department.