We might have to mail them something from time to time, right?
So is the system capable of doing a run based on ZIP code? We know that anyone who has a 191 ZIP code is a Philadelphia firm and anyone who doesn't is a non-Philadelphia firm.
My name is Alice DeYoung. I'm the Information Systems Director for the Procurement Department. The information that we have is based in a system that was built in 1997. It's a proprietary software system. And reporting capabilities are very limited. We can provide that list for you. It will require us some consulting service that we have to purchase to do that. But 589 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET it's not a matter of not ever being able to generate that report.
You're telling me that in order to determine which firms were the successful bidders that are Philadelphia based versus non-Philadelphia based that you would have to go out and hire a consultant to help interpret your software to figure that out? Is that your testimony?
No. My answer is that the consulting firm that developed the software will have to generate a new report for us.
I'm unable to understand your response. What does the system tell you?
We have a complete contract list, but there's no way to narrow that list by saying, "Only give me Philadelphia reports. Only give me contracts that are outside of Philadelphia." 590 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET It's just a straight run of the contracts.
Did they bid for the work or was that a no-bid contract also?
I believe there were several companies that presented options to the City and Polaris got the job.
Dandy for them. What was the purpose of the contract that they got? I mean, what were we buying?
We replaced four mainframe applications. The primary concern at the time was year 2000 compliance because we were using four separate mainframe databases. The system that replaced it moved these applications from mainframe to relational database and provided a single 591 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET location to enter data rather than in four separate database.
Forget the program that you have in the computer. You have a list of the contracts. What is to prevent you from getting somebody to go through that list?
Well, I think that's what the Councilman is asking you.
Well, Mr. Gamble, I'm not -- as unreasonable as I can be, and I can be unreasonable sometimes. It's 2:35 in the afternoon. 592 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET It's not like I was asking for it by o'clock. The 3 response was, "We've got to get a consultant to help us with our software to generate a new report." I mean, I've got a system on a computer downstairs that I keep track of friends, and it can tell me who are my Philadelphia-based friends versus my non-Philadelphia-based friends, and I've had that for over years. 10
Well, Councilman, you can do it, but the system that we have cannot do it. And we will get you that information.
Well, the system that you bought, what did you buy it for?
You were not there. I understand that. But somebody's got to know what is the purpose of the system you have.
I don't why we bought what we bought or why it was bought that way. I inherited the system that we have.
The system is used -- the four separate databases that existed before this system was put in place, one system was to track 593 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET requisitions, one system was used to track contracts and there was no relationship between the two so there was no way to know if a requisition that was received ever became a contract. This system was developed to provide several different options of function, one, so you would know how long it took for a requisition to become a contract, also to provide that relationship between the requisition and a bid. That relationship didn't exist in any kind of database form. So it provides a means for the department to track what has happened to the requisition from the time it comes to our department and also how long it takes for the process. It's also a document repository. We have a place central bid contracts or contract documents letters of award that sort of thing. It's not a sophisticated system. It's built in access 95.
Let me make sure I'm clear on my request. I'd like a complete listing of all the contracts that came through the procurement in the last fiscal year. So I'd like to establish that as a universe first. And then I'd like that universe broken down into subsets. One is the Philadelphia-based firms who were the successful 594 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET bidders on those contracts, and the second is the non-Philadelphia-based firms who were the successful bidders on the contracts. I'd like to know what the contract was, contract amount. How long do you think that will take.
The answer was, hopefully you can get it to me in a week.
Has there ever been any interest by Procurement in this kind of information just in general? I mean, is anybody in the slight slightest way, shape, and form curious as to who's doing all this business with the City and where are they based and what their relationship is with our town? Are we just so happy that people bid on our contracts that we can just throw the money right out the window and give it to whoever shows up? Don't we want to know? Is there any interest in knowing the answers to those questions?
It's not something we have thought about, no. The only thing we're interested 595 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET in is making sure that we get the best price for the product that we're looking for, and we do not necessarily worry about where the company resides.
Well, I can appreciate the first half of the priority, but I think the citizens of this City and the taxpayers of this City might have a slightly different perspective. Given the unemployment rate in Philadelphia, given the dismal lack of participation by a variety of sectors in business with the City of Philadelphia, I mean, it's a fairly large operation we have here. It's a $3 billion enterprise. And some people might actually want to do business with the City if they know more about what the opportunities were. And you here for some of the testimony through the MBEC office and a wide variety of entities. But if those kinds of runs were being done and if we were not only looking at price but outcomes and had a policy that says, "We'd like to better promote the people who are here. We'd like to make sure that people had an opportunity to do business with this City because we'd actually like more people to have businesses here in the City. As a mater of fact, we'd like more people to live here. We'd like more 596 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people to work here." And if we were paying attention to where the money was going, we might know some of those issues and we might better change our systems to reflect the fact that more and more people are leaving town and businesses don't want to be here and opportunities are being lost. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't pursuing price because price is very, very important. But there should be some be, I think, some other goals that we take a look at. And if we had information, if we were looking at our systems to figure out where is the money going and who's participating and where are they located, we might actually be able to change some things here in the City.
Councilman, one of the first things that we have to realize is that we are governed by the City Charter which says that we have to award to the lowest responsible bidder within specifications and we cannot look at any other thing other than that.
Well, we're going to give you an opportunity to look at something different besides that.
That's give me the opportunity. 597 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Fine. We will give you the information that you asked for so that you can use it for the information. But the thing is that our hands are tied as to what we can do. The way we award it is the lowest responsible bid.
I'm not asking you at the moment to do anything different. What I'm asking you is that we think a little bit outside the box and if somebody had looked at this information before -- and I don't know what the numbers are going show. Maybe all the money is going to Philadelphia firms. That would be a wonderful day. I think not, but maybe it is. But if we just had information, it's very powerful. You can actually do something with it. And if we found imbalances, then somebody would say, "You know, I did a report the other day and I found whatever I found and I think there's an imbalance here and maybe we should try to do something a little different." That makes change, when you have information, not just filling out forms, not just filling in the dots, not just reading books and saying, "Well, it says we can only 598 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET so X, so I don't want to think about anything besides X."
Since I have been here, I have been looking at ways in which to change the system, Councilman.
Well, I'm glad to hear it and I'd like to hear some of those ideas.
Well, some of the ideas that we changed as an example that's within the City Charter is that when departments have bids under 13,000 or a price under 13,000, we limit those to small businesses where you can procure to small businesses rather than large businesses because one the things we're looking at is trying to increase the amount of money that we spend with small companies. Now, the intent is not --
When did it start, 599 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET yesterday?
Well, I didn't know anything about it and I just got your testimony yesterday. I'm glad to hear about it. And if you have other ideas, some of us might actually like to know about them. Last I checked, I just checked with Cory Kemp as he was walking down the hall, I'm still on the payroll. We all work for the same people, we're in the same government. Let's start sharing some information back and forth. We might be able to help each other.
Well, that's the intent, Councilman, to help each other. One of the things that I said when I arrived and I still say now is that I want to make sure that we don't do things just because we've done it that way in the past; that's not the intent. The intent is to find ways which to do things better, think outside of the box, which we are trying to do. So we will welcome the partnership.
I look forward to it. You'll have the information to the Council President 600 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET in a week?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I'd like to follow up on Councilman Kenney and Nutter's questioning about the policy that you indicated how important following the City Charter is and, again, suggesting that you're not following that in the area of the one-year contracts. I've got a question for you. You reinforced -- again, you said you inherited this system, but I have a document that suggests that you reinforced to your staff via e-mail their requirement to do a one-year contract with the three-year renewal. Did you reinforce your staff with an e-mail?
What I said to them was to look at it and if it's in the City's best interest interest to go beyond a year, we should take a look at that, yes.
Commissioner, do you want 601 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET me to read that e-mail? Would you just think about what you just said and tell me do you that that's what you said in that e-mail?
What I said was that we have to look on an individual basis of the contracts and those that are in the City's best interest then we will look at approving those on a case-by-case basis.
So basically you suggested -- even though you inherited a policy, you agreed with that policy?
Your interpretation of that is that it does not violate the Charter that Councilman Nutter just read to you?
Going back to this embarrassing information system that you have. And again, you inherited it. You send checks to most of these vendors, don't you? Who sends the checks?
That's done in Finance. 602 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Don't you think Finance would know where these checks are going and be of support to you and tell you the vendors that you've sent checks to that reside outside the City? I would think that there's some tax consequence and some Internal Revenue reporting issues. I think within your organization may be outside of Procurement that that data would be available without hiring a consultant.
It may be available outside of my department I was only speaking Department. I was only speaking regarding my Department.
But Commissioner, if you have tools to get this information outside your Department without spending more money, I think you should use them.
Got a question. Following up Councilman Nutter and the hope we can do business with people in our region. Is it true that we buy vehicles from a company in Connecticut?
Commissioner, either we do 603 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET or we don't. Do we buy cars, polices cars --
Commissioner, do we presently buy police vehicles from a car dealership in Connecticut?
You do not know that we buy vehicles from a company in Connecticut.
We've spent millions and millions and millions of dollars on vehicles from a company in Connecticut, and you don't know that?
We don't necessarily -- that does not mean, Councilman, that we have spent millions of dollars in that one company. What it means is that that company submitted the lowest bid which we do not have any requirements that says that a company outside of the City of Philadelphia cannot had bid on any item that we have.
Commissioner, all I want is a straight answer. Do we buy cars from a company 604 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET outside of --
Why are you saying it's possible. Are you saying you don't know? You honestly don't know or you're just playing with me here?
Do you have any representatives of your organization that can answer that question?
Here's what I'd like to know. If we buy vehicles from a car dealership in Connecticut that has a little specialty niche, they sell police cars to lots of municipalities, I'd like to know the difference between the second bidder that may be from our region and the rationale on how 605 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET much money we save by buying our police vehicles from a dealership, from what I understand, located in the State of Connecticut. So what I'd like to find out is if we're saving bucks a car, bucks 6 a car, and that's basically what you're supposed to 7 do, save the City money whether it's a dollar or 10 8 dollars, what indirectly we lose in wage tax and 9 other taxes in sending this business to the State of 10 Connecticut when we have car dealerships here in 11 this City and in this State struggling at this time. 12 So I'd really like to know what is your business 13 decision to do that, to buy these vehicles from this 14 car dealership in Connecticut. Is it really 15 something that we should be do doing. And if it is 16 something that you're doing, are you absolutely 17 required to do it? If there's a 10 spread between 18 the bid from a car dealership here and the one in 19 Connecticut, as the Commissioner can you say you'd 20 like to keep this business at home rather than save 20 bucks?
I'd still like to know the dollar amount of money we spend with this car 606 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET dealership in Connecticut and I'd like to know what the spread is in the loss in business. I don't need how much the vehicle cost. I'd just like for work that I'm going to do in preparing my support for this budget whether or not these are smart decisions. Because it's very depressing to people work here in the City to hear hat they're not able to capture that business and that we're buying vehicles from other places.
Councilman, let me just say this. They have the opportunity to make the slowest bid. Now, the opportunity is there. If they don't submit a bid that's low, then we can't be held accountable for them not sharpening their pencils. They know we have to award based on the lowest responsible bidder meeting specifications.
Commissioner, in a small town in Connecticut doing business is a lot less than it is to run a business in the fifth largest City in the United States of America. When you tell a person to be sharp, they're competing apples to apples. They're competing against a dealership that basically -- I don't want to get into the nuts and bolts of this thing, but my point is here, that it's 607 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET discouraging to people. We lose in the long run even though the Procurement Department is doing what you're charged to do. We are losing sales -- may not sales tax, but employees that are no longer working in various dealerships that sold vehicles to the City. And I'm not talking about specialty equipment that you have to buy in Indiana or other places. I'm just talking about plain old cars. So I'd just like to know that information. Is my request clear? I just would like to know how much money we spent on buying cars in Connecticut, police cars and other vehicles, and what the real savings to the City is to authorize that transaction in another state?
Thank you, Commissioner. And by the way, thank you for your recent cooperation on an issue that I'm involved with the fire fighters.
Thank you, Madam President. 608 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Commissioner, I want to go back for a moment to the airport. You had indicated that there were certain contracts at the Airport that procurement was involved with and certain contracts they're not. Can you give me a general frame work as to what contracts you are involved with at the Airport, what types of services, what types of supplies and products.
We're involved with office supplies for them. We're involved with their construction projects. We're involved with any of their equipment, supplies, and services.
So you were involved in the recent change in maintenance companies for the Airport? I think a year ago or so there was a contract awarded. Elliott Lewis used to have the contract to maintain the airport and a new company came in and replaced Elliott Lewis. Were you involved in any of those negotiations?
Who was involved in that 609 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET in your office, anybody?
I'm Janet Hagan, Deputy Procurement Commissioner for Services, Supplies and Equipment. That was a bid, it wasn't an RFP. It was a competitive bid with a pre-qualification that was sent out first. There were maybe four vendors that I believe were pre-qualified, but only two submitted bids, Elliot Lewis and Philadelphia Airport Services. Philadelphia Airport Service was the lowest bidder. In that particular bid, was there a section of the bid package or the specifications for the contract that included the maintenance of elevators, escalators and other moving sidewalks and such things at the airport the original bid package inclusive of that?
Yes. I believe it was divided into various, what they called, schedules, and I believe Schedule A was for elevator/escalator maintenance.
Is Philadelphia Airport Service providing the maintenance on that under the 610 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET terms of the original bid that was awarded?
I wouldn't know that for sure, but I would believe they are. Each one of those schedules, there are also subcontractors and I believe for elevators/escalators it was Theis and Krup (ph).
And they are the subcontractors for Philadelphia Airport Services.
SO as far as you are aware, post the award of the bid, there was no 13 requirements or services removed from the scope of the contract ultimately awarded to Philadelphia Airport Services.
My understanding is that the elevator and escalator maintenance, which would seem to be one of the most expensive parts of providing that kind of maintenance service was subsequently removed from the requirements of Philadelphia Airport Services and bid under a separate bid package.
Because that would 611 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET certainly put the other bidder -- if the other bidder was aware that or of the belief that that particular service was going to be required as part of the contract, then amount bid would be certainly different than if they knew it was coming out.
Yes. We could certainly look into that, but I'm not aware of any change in the elevator company or that have been removed from the contract. Schedule A was worth about $2 million of the 13-something contract.
Were you aware of the fact that -- were you involved with any of the pre-bid conferences or anything like that?
No. The buyer and the former Deputy Commissioner had a lot of involvement. When I became the Deputy Commissioner, I believe the bid had already opened and we were just in the evaluation stage for who was low and some pre-award meetings.
Are you aware, either personally or through institutional knowledge as a result of being in your position now that there was contemplation at the time of possibly re-bidding the whole job prior to its award? 612 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Are you aware of a letter that was allegedly drafted by the Airport Director that was asking for a re-bid of the whole job?
I believe there's something that came in on the morning of a schedule meeting from the Airport Director I believe to the former Commissioner, but I don't know exactly what was in that.
I'd appreciate taking a look at it as opposed to -- that would be the same day of the award?
I believe it was on the morning of a pre-award scheduled meeting.
I believe the vendor mentioned -- 613 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Philadelphia Airport Services. The pre-award would have only been with the company that was determined to be the apparent lowest bidder.
And that letter was discussed at that pre-award meeting?
No. I believe that the vendor made mention of -- he asked the question, "Are you aware of" -- and I don't know if it was a letter or a memo. He asked the question to someone, "Are you aware of a memo?"
I'd like to see if I can get a copy of that letter. I'd appreciate seeing it and any other information you may have about that.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can a bid be changed that way without going through the discussion with the procurement Commissioner and other folks?
The change in that manner, I mean, that seems to be sort of like a very informal way and not being able other inform other responsible bidders that all of a sudden the contract that they thought they had bid on all of a sudden changes miraculously to fit a different company's requirements.
But it does happen, it seems. 615 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Could you detail to us how many of those contracts that you have given through the procurement have been either single sole source, multiple bids and how many have been done without RFPs going out.
But sometimes you just don't do it, you have a sole source?
Well, I would like to find out how many companies you have done that with and how many have gone out, how many request for bids and how many responses you have gotten. Of all of these contracts, I'd like you to Councilman Nutter asked for -- you probably will have a problem because you probably don't have the system to be able to do it with. 616 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds-Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon Commissioner. I want to add the voice first of all to the sentiments expressed by my colleagues around procurement with particular emphasis on doing better at ensuring that Philadelphia small businesses get greater opportunity when it comes to doing business with the City. I learned in previous testimony that we may be restricted in some ways as to ensuring that Philadelphia residents are part of bids once they're ultimately awarded and so I too will have an interest in of those contracts that have been awarded how many are Philadelphia residents. And as part of a bigger picture, my personal opinion is that government has to lead by example. And when you have government leading by example, quasi public agencies like SEPTA specifically who blatantly abuse 617 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET giving Philadelphia residents and people of color and women opportunity, we look to professionals like yourself to say that it can be done. That's Item No. 1. I want to shift the conversation to the composition of your department. I'm pleased to see that a person of color heads it up. That was not the case a long time in the past. How many deputies do you have?
So there's the Deputy Commissioner and then the next staff category would be what, managers or what? Help me out.
Do they come up through the Civil Service system? 618 2/25/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Most of them, yes, directors, yes. I have a manager -- well, the systems person was appointed by the former Commissioner. So that's an appointed position. But the Director of Administrative Services is a Civil Service position.
So of those positions you just mentioned, three are appointed by you?