Is there an existing list for the firefighters? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes. The fact is, we have a class that we just put in that's less than two weeks old, with 73 people in that class. And we plan to continue to hire. As soon as one class is out and we can establish another one, then we will have another one, for a total probably during this calendar year of about three classes, somewhere close to 80. But we ended up with 73 out of this one. The list is current. It's a good list. We're not complaining about it or anything like that. It means just sometimes the hiring process can be difficult, but it works for us.
Fine. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 00930 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget Commissioner, I just have two questions, which actually I'm asking on behalf of one of our colleagues, Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown. The first is, this is from the testimony. I don't know what the page number is. But it's the number of fire deaths, 1993 to 2002 page, the bar graphs? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes.
And the question was, the tangible factors that have led to the last at least two-year decline, and naturally we're hoping a three-year decline. Starting with the year 2000, when we were at 51, '01 at 45, '02 at 32. And so I think that the basic question is, from your perspective, what has led to that particular decline, although I would note for the record that these things seem to happen in cycles. '94, a reduction from '93. Then a little bit of increase in '95. And then back down in '96, and up a little bit in '97, but overall, still going in a downward direction, even in those years where there's been an increase from the year 00931 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget before. If you go to a high in 1995 of 90 and now down to '02 at 32, obviously, almost a two-thirds drop in those years. So, Councilman's question is tangible factors regarding the decline over the past two to three years. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Most of it is really due to education, more than anything else.
Education? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Education and proliferation of smoke detectors. The Fire Department has worked very, very hard in being as inclusive as we can, in terms of getting everybody in the Fire Department involved in that whole educational process. That's why we have included so many different programs over the years, where we utilize the firehouses to go out and not just make nice in the community, but to actually go out and do some things, in terms of putting out information and making sure people are very, very well aware. 00932 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget And what happens, when we have a tragedy like a fire death, we really examine it as close as we possibly can, to try to figure out what happened, and see whether or not there's a message, at least, that you could get out. And there's some factors over which you can't seem to have a whole lot of control. And whether we like to admit it or not, there are a number of people that are under the influence of either drugs or alcohol when they're involved in a fire tragedy. And in Philadelphia, in most cases, of the ones where we can document, that didn't linger or anything like that. They might have been taken to a hospital but only momentarily. For the most part, taken off the fire ground and dead at that position, where they go and actually have an autopsy done, they may have contributed in some way to the fire itself. What we do know is, that about a third of those, at least, have been under the influence of either drugs or alcohol. And you have a number of other factors, as you might imagine. 00933 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget But what we do is -- and for each one of those, we analyze it and try to figure out, what could have made the difference. And then we make sure that we establish whatever we can, whether or not that's something as simple as doing a press release to put the information out to say what it was. We get as much publicity for it as we possibly can. We go out in the surrounding area, put the information out, so that in that heightened awareness time, that the people who are living in that surrounding area are not only given a smoke detector, but they're given the information regarding the fire death and what cussed it, and so forth. And so, as we analyze these things, what we do is, we create programs, and most often that go City-wide, that are based on the kind of technical information that we're able to uncover.
Right. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: And once you're able to do that, what we find is, is the repeat, repeat, repeat. You put that information out. And it works. And we've seen that decline. 00934 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget And I think it's really primarily due to the education process that we've established, and the fact that we have so many people that work for us who are as committed as I am to seeing this number go down. I know years ago when I was in the Fire Prevention Division, one of the things that I had looked at was the number of fire deaths that occurred in the state. And roughly it's about 11 per million. And we always had these numbers -- 12
25 per? 13 COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: 25 fire 14 deaths per million residents for the state. 15
Okay. Go ahead. 16 COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: And that's 17 pretty much the way it runs in a lot of different 18 places, not just in Pennsylvania. But you can't 19 take the world, so I took Pennsylvania. 20 And so when we looked at it we said, 21 how do we get there, when in fact what we're 22 realizing, we were having about a hundred extra 23 alarm fires, and we were having about a hundred 24 fire deaths a year. So we continually worked at 25 it to the point where we tried to put as much 00935 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget science in it as we can.
Right. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: And that's really what's paying off.
Good. Thank you. Thank you. The second question is related to the to 2002 Emergency Medical Incidents. That's bar graphs as well. And the question here is: There's been a steady incremental increase, although a fairly significant one, from '94 to '95. And then the rest are, I think, less than -- mostly a single digit increases, but increases nonetheless. Question is -- And I'm sure you've done the analysis. Where you have these increases in the EMS incidents, what categories are contributing, if there are any categories in particular that jump out? Fires, gunshots, you know, falls. What's driving the EMS run numbers up over the past six, seven, eight years? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: It really seems to be the health care system itself that 00936 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget seems to drive it, more than anything else. We're the last resort for --
People who need to go to the hospital. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: People who need to go to the hospital; and they need to go, and it's really created an emergency. And so, as you know, we only do the emergencies. We don't just do people that just want to go to the hospital. We don't take you just because you want to go. We take you because we can document the fact that you are sick and it is in fact an emergency. And it seemed to be that more than it is anything else. Now, what we do is, with our contractor, they can go and use all of the CD-9 Codes, and they can tell you exactly what the chief complaint was. About 20 percent of the chief complaint is just, I'm sick. So, that's the way it goes in. Now, the other ones seem to deal with breathing difficulties is the highest. Gunshot wounds, as an example, is way down, 00937 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget compared to something like breathing difficulties. But it's breathing difficulties and at this time of the year it's slips and falls and those kind of things. But when you spread them out, it ends up being significant when you have a cold winter. And then in the summertime, you end up, of course, with high numbers that are just based on heat-related kind of difficulties.
Right. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: So if you were to spread those things out, it's topped out by breathing difficulties, you know, only second action.
Why don't I ask on the Councilwoman's behalf. If you could give us a breakout of year 2000, '01, and '02, of the various incidents by category. And then, you know, she can, if she wants to do any further analysis or have contact with you. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Let me just give you one caution with that. I have no problem with doing it. It's just calling the contract and say, spit it out. 00938 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget But the way we list this, we go by the chief complaint is.
Right. I understand. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: And so you need to understand that we have a high number of: I'm just sick.
Right. I understand. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes. No 12 problem.
There's a legend or a code book that goes with it or a code sheet or something? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: No. They spit it out in real simple straightforward language, which just tells you what the chief complaint is: It will say breathing difficulty, heart attack. It will say fall, whatever it is.
Commissioner, I assume that with the snowstorm 00939 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget last week, that a lot of people had to have -- were calling our office -- who had to be taken to the hospital for dialysis. Was your Department called? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Oh, were we called? We were called a lot.
I never realized how many people are on dialysis until we have a snowstorm. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Well, it's a number of people on dialysis is right.
It's amazing. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: The fortunate part about it is, when they have a snowstorm, they open up the EOC. And they did have a number of people that were willing to serve as volunteers, which really took some of the necessity away from our normal responses. And we actually set a record, in terms of responses, for calls for service for EMS one of those days. It was 774 calls for 40 medic units, that really, if you counted them all as full-time, it would be the same as 35. 00940 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget So the men and women of our Department, particularly those that had to deal with the difficulties of getting around in that snow and servicing people who were suffering from sprains and strains, and all of the other things that come about from trying to go out and shovel snow when you have never done it before, was absolutely remarkable. So I actually think that they deserve great praise for having been able to respond that well.
Certainly. They certainly do. Councilman Rizzo and I were having a discussion earlier about the article that appeared in the newspaper, I believe it was yesterday, about the underground fire near the airport. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes.
Your Department has been investigating that. Can you share with us the results of that investigation? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Well, we keep going out and putting it out or thinking that we're putting it out. 00941 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget
What's causing it? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: It's actually under ground. And the only way you're really going to change that is to keep people there for days and days and days. And nobody knows how long that would take, in order to flood it to that point, which would make a mess. Or you're going to have to get contractors in there to actually unearth all of that, because it goes down so deep, until it's all deep-seated. So what happens, we respond. We flood it. You don't see any results of it for probably days. And then after a while, after it dries out some, then it starts up again. So it's been one of those things that's been ongoing. And it probably will continue to go that way unless there's a major situation where somebody decides to put that much money forward to have contractors come in and totally pull it apart, which could take a very, very long time, in terms of putting your resources out there. It's a mess. 00942 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget
Is that creating a health hazard; do we know? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: It probably would be better answered by the Health Department. But I will say this: I've never seen any smoke, unless it was theatrical smoke, that wasn't toxic. So certainly it's toxic. Now, how toxic? It's my understanding that it stinks, but it stinks when you get right up on it. And if you would stay in that position and breathing it, certainly it would be toxic. But because of the air flow and because of the amount, and so forth, it probably is not enough of a health hazard to worry about it. It just is irritating and stinks.
Well, I would appreciate it if you would send a written report so that if need be we can get, perhaps, federal funds to investigate this, because this has been ongoing, and I think the area residents are now really becoming very concerned about it. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes.
The Chair 00943 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Madam Chairman, I agree with what you just said. I see the Managing Director's office is here. And I understand that we have an office that ferrets out grants and looks for these kinds of things. I think it's real important that we get out a report which I would hope is already somewhere in a file, from Air Management, to identify what exactly the issue is there. What are we dealing with? Like the Commissioner said, unless it's theatrical smoke, it has a potential of being a health hazard. So, I would hope that Air Management is working or has information about that; B, the Administration has already looked for a way... I think we all remember there was a town in upstate Pennsylvania, Centralia. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: That's right.
Had the same issue with underground fires from the vacated mines. And the federal government did come in there and provide substantial funding. 00944 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget So I think we need a plan. And I'm speaking to the Managing Director's office right now. We need a plan on exactly how to deal with this issue. If unearthing that area is the answer, we really need to have a plan and a budget on what this would cost. And we need to look at all the resources available, both at the state level and the federal level. So, for the record, I would hope that the Managing Director's office could come back at us with that. And Commissioner, I guess what you're doing is the Band-Aid approach right now, dealing with it. But when I hear from people at the Airport, indicating that there have been complaints from there, some captains flying commercial aircraft, that it's gotten to the point where it has been a visibility issue for them, that concerns me. So maybe even the Federal Aviation Administration might be interested in helping alleviate that problem, if that is a legitimate concern. Commissioner, I just want to back 00945 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget up. Can I take my turn now?
Commissioner, I want to also compliment the Fire Department, especially you. You are so visible in the community. You probably... You know this, and I know it, probably, being an observer... appreciate your extra effort of being every place almost every day, to represent the Fire Department. And even when you're not there at other events, that there's always representation of top-ranking firefighters. And I think the young people, the families, and moms and dads, like to see their Fire Department. And your effort is greatly appreciated. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Commissioner, we spoke about the status of the negotiations. Is 00946 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget the arbitration almost over at this point? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: I sure hope so. They've had several executive sessions, as I understand it. And I'm led to believe, at least, that some decisions are going to be coming soon, meaning that sometime in March or near the end of March we're likely to see a contract.
How are we doing with firefighters who acquire hepatitis? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: We have 67 people who have told us that they have Hepatitis C. And as you know, there are a lot of conversations about it, and so forth. But there's only been two cases that have actually been brought forth of those 67. There have been many claims in the paper saying that there were higher numbers, but there's been no evidence to back it up. I did receive 67 letters, though. And if you go back in the history of this, you may remember that, you know, you saw all kind of numbers being thrown around, and so forth. The Mayor took an unprecedented action and made $3 million available to help with 00947 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget this. Initially, I believe it was $150,000 which goes back well over two years ago, that was finally applied for, and it was given, of which $30,000, as I understand it, was advanced, which was a part of that $150,000. Recently, I understand that there was... What was that, about $180,000? Well, it was $92,000 that was paid out, but that's a long time between those two things. $92,000 was paid out recently. And I'm told that there's another bill for a similar amount that has not been paid because it has not been verified. We went through a process by which persons who had sick leave they wanted to give up, could donate their sick leave to a sick leave bank. Some people have taken advantage of that. So nobody's lost any pay or anything like that. We don't have anybody that, other than Mary Kohler, that is in one of those kind of situations which she just can not work. So, it has not shown itself, in terms of the debilitating effects of this, to prevent a person from coming to work.
But our policy. 00948 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget I'm saying, what is the policy that is presently in place, in terms of -- COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: If you get sick, you take off sick. That's the policy.
And you get the benefits? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: So far there have only been two cases that they brought it forth.
Okay. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: And that's dealt with through Risk Management.
Are there any other questions from any Members of the Committee? Yes, Councilman Rizzo.
Just, again, I wasn't listening as carefully as I should have. How many members of the Fire Department? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: 67 that have actually officially notified me. You have a period of time from the time that you become aware that you have whatever the issue is to make your 00949 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget employer aware of it. And so, they have to actually formally notify me. And 67 letters have been received by the Fire Department, saying that they have contracted Hepatitis C.
Commissioner, once they identify, do they have to work differently? I mean, do they have to wear protective gloves if they're in the process of handling other... COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: As long as you don't have intimate contact with somebody, meaning that this pass-through body fluids, then you can continue to work.
My question is, though, if the paramedic is identified as having Hepatitis C, can they continue to go out and give emergency care? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Yes.
Well, isn't there a potential of a cut, bodily fluid transfer in that process of an emergency? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: No more so than it would be for a nurse working in an emergency room, or no more so than it would be for 00950 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget a doctor working under those same kind of conditions.
So in other words, you're telling me that in every other profession, medical profession, that there's no 7 constraints or any additional precautions taken when a person has Hepatitis C? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: We pretty much have dedicated every resource we possibly could, to make sure we were doing the right thing, including hiring a person that we considered the designated officer who deals with contagious diseases, who keeps all kind of confidential records, which I don't even ask her for, or any of those kind of things. And we have a doctor who oversees the paramedics and makes the decisions as to whether or not you're safe to work or not work. And we don't have anybody that has any of those restrictions.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman 00951 02/26/03 - FY '04 Operating Budget Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I wanted to thank our Fire Commissioner, the Department, for the fine job that we do. I must say I see him all around the City for many affairs, and we do appreciate the job that you do? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you. And I see you around, too, so we know you're working hard.
Okay. Any other questions or comments from Members of the Committee? Seeing none, thank you very much. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you.
The Committee of the Whole will stand in recess until Monday, March 3, 2003, at 9:30. Thank you all very much. (Hearing concluded at 4:00 p.m.) 00952 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the hearing of the Committee of the Whole, taken on February 26, 2003, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. _________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public _________________________ David A. Deik, RPR Commissioner of Deeds (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)