and that somehow mr reuter's asserting that our our appeal doesn't cover those plans if there is
another permit mr hall are you aware of any other zoning permits being issued for this property
Either of these two properties, one Red Lion Road or 198 San Meyer Lane after the date and with different permit application or permit numbers than the two that we're talking to today, which would be ZP2020-010545 or ZP2020-000653.
are you aware of any permits having been applied for or issued
after the date of those permits having been issued by you on in December?
I issue only an amended permit after that.
What is the amended permit? Is that what you're saying when you say 00,
the one that references the language 000653.
the language 000653 same one this is the original one okay the language okay and mr and miss and
Same one. This is the original one.
you're in council for the city forwarded these two permits along with this drawing
that i placed up on the screen that says approved for zoning only 5 11 20.
that those are not the approved plans that go with those two permits that there may be
some other plan, even though the plans he provided us are dated after the date of the permits,
which I'm not sure how that happens, but that these may not be the approved plans that go with
one or both of those permit applications or permits. Is there a different set of drawings
that were finally approved, whether through some type of informal or formal amendment
or not, other than these plans dated 05-11-20, or that are marked and stamped as approved for
zoning-only 05-11-20? Or are these the final approved for zoning-only plans associated with
one or both of these permits? This was the final, but after that also another
After this, the amended plan was stamped, amended permit was issued, but that was the
first approval for the new construction, this plan.
So you're saying there's another permit and another plan issued after 5-11-20?
I told you the application number is the same.
The amended permit, there is no another permit language.
It is under the same, the date is the same.
It doesn't change the date.
That's why you are confusing because the date is the same,
all date, but only language is different a little bit.
And then plan, when I stand on the plan,
the plan is on different date.
That's it.
There is not too much of change.
Even though this plan is, you're saying,
even though this plan is dated 12 30 2020 it was actually issued sometime after that
yeah after this is the original one after the original we don't issue the same day after the
original permit i issue the new construction permit after after 20 days maybe for two weeks
now there's these are both these are a week apart in december yes and after that i issue the final
one like the same permit language i changed the language of the amended permit language
the plan was little bit changed it was in january 14 13th you're saying so there's another permit
dated january 14th 14th not the point this is the same permit like the same same permit the
application number would be gp 2020 010 545 that's the same permit number that's the same
permit only i ate the point one language little bit like as a minute permit language everything
is the same only the plan is little bit different and the date is different only on the plan
not on the application and not on the permit language that's why you are getting confused i
guess so you're saying there was an original
permit. There was an original permit that was issued in December and then sometime after that
there was a revised permit, an amended permit that was issued with the same number but that
was issued sometime after January 13, 2021. No. I didn't issue the revised permit. I issued the
same permit language only I changed the permit language, amended permit language. You can see
at the bottom of the permit language, only that is changed.
Everything remains the same as original permit language.
Nothing changed.
Only the changes language little bit changed,
like amended permit language, that's it.
The application number would be the same.
Only plan date, I stamped the plan,
the date of the plan is different than original one.
Besides that, everything is the same.
Little bit, I changed the language
for the eminent permit language that's all but since you added since you specifically added
reference something that happened in january of 2021 this permit could not have been issued
december 23rd 2020 it had to be then revised and reissued after that date correct yeah i don't have
revised and reissued after
that date, correct?
I don't have to revise. Only they have
to apply for the amended application.
They apply as amended application
under the same permit language.
Everything remains the same.
Only I have to put the
note, what are the changes
on the revised plan.
That's it.
I don't have to make the new
application. I don't have to write the new permit.
The permit, everything will be the
same under the same application number only i change is like language what are the amended
i change the amended permit language on the original for me
but you did issue a permit 010545 without the amended without the phrase amended permit
language as of 1-13-2021 per civic design? No, not this one. I don't know the date when I was
issued, this one. Permit is issued. After that applicant amend the application with the plan,
then I put only permit language. I add one sentence of the permit language,
one of the original permit. I don't have to make another application. I don't have to write another
permit everything remains the same it doesn't delete original permit doesn't delete only
i have to mention what are the changes on the permit language
i mean mr hall here's a bit of the here's a problem is that these permits were posted at
the subject property sometime before january there were permits with these numbers objection mr hall
doesn't have any specific knowledge about what was posted at the property that's fine that's fine
okay i withdraw my question all right back to back to back to the plans so mr hall are these
plans that are stamped 5 11 20 the final approved plans associated with these two permits
Or are there other plans dated after 5-11-20 or other than 5-11-20 that are approved plans? Because these are the plans we received from Mr. Reuter. So if I'm going to cross-examine you on the plans that were approved, I'd like to be doing that with the plans that were actually.
Mr. I apologize for interrupting you, but unfortunately our time has ended. Yes, it's 1230 and we will resume this hearing on May 18th at 1 p.m. Okay. May 18th at 1 p.m.
Before we break, if I could just really quickly, with respect to the documents that we introduced with Ms. DeHall's testimony, I would just ask to move that those be entered into the record.
And also, we did send around, everybody should have, and by everybody I mean with respect to the board, Ms. Sunkett and Ms. Saleta, as well as all counsel should now have copies of the screenshots for both of the permits that are at issue.
um and again i'll just say it in terms of like you know the last hour and a half of uh
examination or cross-examination by mr orvanides i think once we have an opportunity to redirect
mr primavera and i will probably take about five minutes to clarify all of the confusion
uh that has been raised with respect to um how eclipse works and what what was happening there
But I'll look forward to that next time, I'm sure.
That today then concludes my business.
I would ask that Mr. Hall be let go, and I would ask to be excused.
Excuse me.
Before you leave, Mr. Reuter, I would like to say that I will speak with the board prior to the next hearing and maybe at the next executive session
to discuss whether any additional legal briefing
or going to specific issues will be required
and I will inform the parties
what the board would like them to submit and when.
Well, and again, we said this in an email,
but I'll say it again for the record
that a letter brief was submitted by Mr. Katsuzi,
who I'm pronouncing your name correctly, by the way.
You got it.
And we would like, you know, reasonable time to respond to that.
But if everybody's going to be submitting new briefs or something like that, then that's fine, too.
We might ask for briefs going to specific issues such as standing and the subpoenas that are requested.
that are requested but again i'll contact the parties after i've had an opportunity to discuss
But again, I'll contact the parties after I've had an opportunity to.
that with the board and missile if i may i just i actually have a conflict on the 18th is it
possible to have another date um i don't believe so it's we have the board has limited availability
submit the request and miss sunk it and the board and i will discuss it and sharon for clarity of
record can you have or len can you please clarify exactly what documents are being labeled and moved
into the record um basically the two uh permits um one zp 2020-00653 and the other permit uh zp
2020-10-545 and the two plans that we were that i reviewed uh on my direct of uh of msda hall
and like he just for the record i'm sorry of last amendment for each of those two plans
for clarity to record uh i'll look again this is something that we're just going to have to explain
when we do redirect it's eclipse doesn't work the way i think even a lot of people who regularly use
it think it works so um that's why we're going to uh i'll address that when uh when when we do our
redirect um but the those plans the plans that i submitted are exactly this the same plans that i
had previously emailed uh all council and the board okay what's being moved into the record
so that's that that was it that's what i just told you what what exactly the same documents
that were emailed to you again the only other cleanup item uh joe contusi the only other
cleanup item i just want to confirm while we're on the record that the matters are consolidated
for purposes of evidence and i know there's been a lot of testimony and i know we discussed
and in advance of this hearing that these appeals are consolidated but i just want to confirm we're
doing that. Yes, I would agree. And I would say that, right, moving things into the record on all
cases. Thank you. And can I ask now that everyone has the combined exhibit packet submitted by
Mr. Affinities and Toner, there's quite a bit to go through. If there are submissions that you
object to, you might let us know in advance the next hearing.
anything else
um i just wanted to ask one question of uh mr orphan 80s or toner you we have discussed very
briefly right to know request that was made and i just want clarification was that right to know
request made by your client or by mr bordelon made by our office made by your office okay and
that was to which department uh great to know was made to the philadelphia department of licenses
and inspections okay thank you and what date was that made you also made it to uh what's that
what date was that the request october 20 the original okay october 28 2020 right thank you
Numerous extensions were requested by L&I until they finally provided it last Thursday at the end of the day.
Thank you.
So, Mr. Cattuzzi, you will submit your request for another date, but as we end this right now, the hearing is scheduled for the 18th at 1 o'clock.
um and sorry uh i there is also currently another uh appeal so that's a is that going to be a
regular that's a tuesday so that'll be it will be a special yep for that day okay because we have
we have uh another i guess special for 12 31 to 33 federal street um listed for 9 30 just want
confirm that that's this one is for 1 p.m okay great so no no we actually don't we don't we
don't have what one at 9 30 i i have a zoom link to all right well we can talk about that later
then i just wanted to because it looked because because that's definitely i have that on my
calendar so okay are we talking about chickie and pete's no no this is 12 30 yeah 12 31
on federal street uh this i'm sorry folks i got on late i had some other business this morning
this i'm sorry folks i got on late i had some other business this morning um 1231 federal i
think there was an issue it's an appeal against l and i right and um again involved and there
may have been there may have been an error on behalf of the attorney representing the applicant
i believe yeah while i pointed something out i don't remember what it was exactly right so anyway
way we can we can resolve that that that later i just wanted to be uh to be clear thank you okay
thanks lynn i'll look into okay that concludes see you guys next uh next day yep thank you thank
you good luck thank you
goodbye