response to the right to know request yeah sure yeah okay no problem thank you i mean again we
We just got it, you know, last Thursday after waiting six months for it.
So, and following up and being, extensions being requested by the city repeatedly.
You know, with that being said, you know, there is no discovery.
You know, with that being said, you know, there is no discovery. There are no depositions. I did check with the board solicitor to confirm that they would not issue subpoenas for depositions. And this is not a phishing expedition. We're providing, we're attempting to secure information. So the board, and it's very relevant and germane to our case.
There are no depositions.
um and i need we need to know basically we need to know what was reviewed by this examiner
so if you go to eclipse you have done it many times and for those members of the boards that
aren't familiar you know mr reuter talked about eclipse a little bit so i'll say as well there's
there's a dialogue box where you can enter and write text what your application is for which i
understanding is going to forward, which to this date we haven't seen. There is also places to
upload plans and whatever other materials, revised plans, any supporting documents. And so that's
what we're looking for right now. And that's what I'm asking Ms. DeHall to explain to us so that we
understand what was reviewed, what came in to then result in what came out the other end,
the permits and the approved plans. So in the meantime, if I may continue with Mr. Hall,
because we do have a limited amount of time today. Mr. Hall, how many sets of drawings
did you review as part of this application? Originally two, and at the end, everything was
so many pages of the plans, but the plan was like one, one copy. No, no. I mean, how many sets,
shall I say? How many versions of the plans were submitted to you for review and that you reviewed?
Okay. So there was the original set of drawings that came with the application originally through Eclipse
and then the set of drawings that were stamped in April, correct?
Correct.
Or May, I'm sorry. What's that?
No, in April. And another one is the amended one. That was in January. They applied in January.
So there's an amended application as well?
Yes. Not the application, amended plans.
Revised plans. You mean revised plans?
Amended. Yeah, revised plans.
So is there three sets of drawings or two sets of drawings?
Three.
Okay. And you're saying a permit was issued, two permits were issued, one on December 23rd and one on December 30th.
So 010545 was issued December 30th, which had to do with the unity of use.
And then before that, a week before that, on December 23rd, you had the permit that was issued for the demolition, the erection of the structures, and the use of the property, correct?
And then sometime after the issuance of these permits, there were, you're saying there were amended drawings?
Amended drawings and the amended permit.
And were those...
Application number.
And were those submitted by, how were those, what communications were there between you and the applicant regarding the amended or revised plans? How did they get them to you? Was there another application or?
no they they can apply amended application under the original application number they put the note
what they want to amend the application and they upload the plans there is no another application
number that that would be under the same application number and have to provide the
application they don't have only they have to provide the plans and they will put into the
system what they are going to amend, like the language of the application.
Okay. So you said they up, so there was a note that was uploaded?
Yes. Okay. And then you receive, what happens? You receive notice that something's been uploaded
and connected? It comes into the system. Yeah. They have, yeah. Then after that, when I get the
notice then i have to review okay and um and so that note would also be a document that would be
available to you and to your council uh through eclipse correct as far as what was uploaded
yeah you reviewed that note correct yes okay and do you know what that note said
they want to change the permit language as per the civic design
they want to change the permit language as per the civic design notification it says exactly on
the permit language mr hall what do you what are you what are you looking at and referring to right
now just so that we know you're looking at a document just to work with what document are
you referencing right now yeah this is under the permit language it says the amended application
permit language there is no separate permit the permit would be the same under the original
application original permit only it says admitted permit you have to read that one that's the same
thing they apply okay so what were you just referencing what were you just what were you
just looking at right now was that what permit were you looking at excuse me counselor council
The eclipse system is totally different than the old days
the way we used to do it.
And I think you're not quite understanding the new system.
Oh, I use it every day.
But the questioning that you're asking
are about looking at the yellow slip.
That's only a fragment of the total picture.
What yellow slip?
The yellow tag they put on the drawings in the eclipse system.
You were asking her the question about that.
I didn't say anything about a yellow tag.
No, but her information is on a yellow tag in the ellipse system.
Right.
So that's what she's referring to.
No, no, she was holding, no, when I said she was referring to something, she had a piece of paper in her hand that she was looking at.
I was just asking what that was, if that was the permit.
as because we're not in court so it's a little hard to you know there's there's sometimes issues
with what somebody's looking at and referring to in a proceeding to and how that is affecting their
may affect their testimony and i'm not saying she's doing anything wrong i'm just curious as
to what she was reading off and referring to something and that's you know we're limited here
we wouldn't have this issue if we were all in person so i'm just asking what she was looking
at it wasn't it was an accusatory and i'm thinking that it was a permit but if she could just answer
the question i wasn't asking what she was looking at on the clips if that's clear thank you okay so
mr hall when you were just holding the piece of paper and looking down what were you looking at
no i didn't look anything i told you that you have to go and check the permit under gp 2020
010545 application number that was for the new construction development plan and the
permit is there like amended permit it comes under the same permit language we don't issue
the separate permit for the amended permit it comes under the original under the original
permit i mean i'm looking at i have up on my screen 0006530 that says must be
supply amended permit language to remove the permit language of new construction.
First of all, use the word language. Can you amend a buy-right permit?
Yes, you can.
You can amend a buy-right zoning permit?
Yes. If you want to change the plan, you can.
After the permit has been issued?
Yes. They amend after the permit is issued. They can do that.
for a buy rate zoning permit not not not a permit that's approved by following the issuance of a
variance or somewhat special exception by the zoning zoning board you're talking about a buy
right zoning permit yes please they can okay um i didn't know that okay um so is this the permit
0-0-0-6-5-3, are you saying that there needs to be additional permit language that needs
to – amended permit language that needs to be provided?
Excuse me, this is not the permit, which is the development permit.
You have to go under the development permit, not this one.
Yeah, under this one.
Under 0-1-0-5-4-5.
Please go down.
Yes. Can you see the language? The star?
Okay. So what are – could you just tell us what you're referencing?
Amended permit language. That was the change. That's where they completed the new plans.
Where you have the asterisks? Where you have the three – starting where you have the three
where you have the three at starting where you have the three asterisks yes where it says amended
asterisks yes where it says
permit language as of 113 2021 per civic design review committee accessory retail sales and office
use are proposed in the accessory structure and additional landscaping has been proposed
that what you're referencing yes so are you saying 010545 is an a is an amended permit
this is the original and the amended everything should be under the same application number
they can amend with the original permit application so 000653 is the original
permit and you're saying 010545 is an amended permit? No, this is the new development permit.
I cannot issue the both permit under the unity of use and the development. I have to create the
child application. The original one was one for the unity of use and after that I have created
this application number gp2020-010-545 for the new development and the uses and under the same
application number they amended the application and i issued the permit under the same application
under the same on the bottom of the same permit language so there is no another permit
the part would be under the same application number if you amend the application.
And this was all this amended permit language was provided by the applicant
on January 13, 2021, correct? Yes. Which is after the date of this permit, correct?
Yes, yes. That was the original date, yeah. I mean, the permit that references the date
the amended is before the date of the of the amended permit language, correct?
Right. And it's also the date of permit 00653 is before that 1-13-2021 date, correct?
Good. Okay.
All right. And it mentions accessory retail sales.
um that was the request for that was submitted by um by the applicant
it was not in the original application that was just like a cb design notification
they never applied for the retail it was only for the wholesale and the
transportation terminal and this repair and the gasoline is only for the accessory to the menu
use. They never apply for the retail. It wasn't apply for the retail in the original one.
They did not apply for the retail in the original, but they applied for it
after with this amended permit language, correct?
They didn't apply. Only just the language was written as per the CBT design,
but they never applied for the retail.
your app your permit says accessory retail sales and office use are proposed in the accessory
structure so is is our retail are you saying retail sales is not part of this permit or is
part of this permit i mean i'm just reading it it looks like it is
it looks like but the original they didn't apply for the retail
but it's in your permit so let me ask you this question with this permit in hand
somebody could have reached the the applicant or somebody after the applicant somebody else
who owns the property leases the property pursuant to this permit could operate a retail sales use
at this property, correct? I don't know. That is the civil design determination, but they didn't
apply for the retail. Maybe they have to go to the zoning board and they don't have to go for the
civil design process again. Because retail sales is not permitted in I2 zoning district, correct?
they have designing district for this property correct is that correct got it okay
and the revised plans that can't you're saying that the revised plans that were provided to you
were provided to you on january 13th sometime on or about or after january 13th of 2021 correct
sometime on or about or after January 13th of 2021, correct?
Yeah, January 13th, I guess, yeah.
Okay. And as far as – I mean, you wouldn't know, would you, whether those revised plans from
January 13th, 2020, or on or about or after January 13th, 2021,
were ever submitted or provided to the community at any time? You don't know that, correct?
all right um i am referencing plans that well let me ask this in terms of the application
which we haven't seen yet you know the language
were you provided any details regarding the proposed warehouse distribution trucking and
transportation terminal use at the subject properties, other than the use of those words?
All were the accessory uses, yeah.
I'm sorry, Shelly. My question is, when you write a permit, you issued a permit for warehouse
distribution and trucking and transportation terminal. Were you provided any application
language, where you provided any words other than those words, any details or description
of what the warehouse distribution and trucking and transportation terminal would entail other
than the use of those five or so words?
Yeah, it was in the application.
It was in the application, all the uses.
But they just used those use, they just used those five, approximately those five words, correct?
In other words, they didn't give you any more information regarding what the warehouse distribution, trucking and transportational terminal use would be involved, right?
Right. And then after that accessory use, they have provided to me.
I understand. Regarding the vehicle services and maintenance, the servicing of vehicles and the maintenance of vehicles and the providing gasoline accessory vehicle fueling, they just provided you those words and you put them in the permit. You looked and saw that they were uses that using those words are permitted in I-2 and you just put those in the permit, correct?
No, this is the accessory to the main use. That's what I put in my language, that they're not the retail, they're not like, this is related to the main use.
I understand. I guess I'm not, I don't know if I'm making myself clear. In the application, or on the, I'm limiting myself to the application.
On the application, the language that they use, when they said what they were applying, when the applicant indicated what they were applying for, because we don't have it in front of us yet.
I don't know if it's come in, did they provide you with anything, any language other than
indicating that the proposed use was warehouse distribution and trucking and
transportational terminal regarding, let's say, the principal uses, the primary uses?
They have the application, yes, they have provided.
Was it limited to that language as far as you know?
i don't remember what i think they provided all
did they provide you any details yeah they did they provided you details regarding the
warehouse distribution and trucking and transportational terminal use
yes okay and what and what and what details did they provide to you
that would be the main use like warehouse distribution trucking and transportation
would be the main use and they provided me the accessory use and then parking information they have provided.
That's it.
But they didn't they didn't provide you. I mean, they just use those words.
They didn't give you any details versus what the operations were going to have an objection here.
We have had the same question asked. Well, because she's not answering my question.
i don't believe she's answering my question and i'm not saying she's doing it intentionally look
yeah i think she has and i think we've had the same question 20 times now for like the
last 15 minutes so i would ask the board to ask the appellant to move on yeah i think
maybe she doesn't understand but okay all right we'll have heard her like you said we still got