civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - April 27, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Apr 27, 20213h 0m

Now there were two permits in this. There were a couple actually permit applications that were submitted. Is that correct?

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Yes.

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Okay, I'm going to show you a document here. Do you recognize this?

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Yeah, I do.

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Okay, let me see if I can.

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All right, is that better?

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Can you see that?

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Yeah, I can see that.

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okay let me see if i can it's okay i can see that okay um and what is this what do you

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you recognize and what is this what is this for and this is for the warehouse and the

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parking terminal one of the menus and then this is out of the property line which i have swing

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this is the this is the boundary line is the property line okay and let me uh can you see

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the little hand moving around yes okay so you so this is the if we this large area here that's

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the property line is that right okay and this is red line road down here yeah red line road and is

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this sandmeyer lane that comes up here yeah okay and that extends off the plan and comes back down

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to here is that right right so this little this property here the smaller uh part that juts out

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here that is is that one uh zero zero nine eight sand myer lane yeah i just i just want to be

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careful about i'm going to just have a minor objection here about just being careful about

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leading mr hall because i understand we have limitations because she can't you know physically

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look at the plan but we could keep the questions less excuse me this is sharon saletta it is an

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administrative hearing, the formal rules of evidence do not apply, but your objection is

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noted for the record. Thank you. Thank you. And again, the larger lot, what is that address?

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One red line road. One red line road. Okay. So with the proposal here was to develop

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these two parcels together. Is that right? Right. You need your feelings. Okay. And again,

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And when you say unity of use, what do you mean by that?

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You can use the both lot as a use, like unity of use.

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Okay.

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And again, in this instance, both of these lots are owned by the same entity?

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Yes.

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And the applications were submitted by the same party?

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Yes, same party.

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Okay.

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Okay. So, what is the zoning classification for the property?

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I2.

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Okay. And the use proposed here, what were the uses that were proposed?

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Warehouse distribution, trucking terminal.

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Okay.

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That being used.

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Okay. And are those uses permitted in I2?

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Yes.

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Okay. And were there any, to the best of your recollection, were there any

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issues regarding the dimensions or any setbacks or any of those kinds of

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issues involved in this? No. Okay. And in terms of

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the submission of the plans, were there any problems with the plans that were submitted?

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Yes, they changed the plans. I'm sorry? They have changed the plans.

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The plans were changed. So, okay. So, but the plans that, the revised plans, were those also in conformity with the code?

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Yes.

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Okay. And based upon your review of the plans and the proposed uses, did you make a determination that the permit could be issued?

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Yes.

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Was there any, okay. And at the time you understood that there would be

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Okay. And at the time, you understood that there would be some vehicle repair and maintenance and some fueling of vehicles on the site?

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Yes, but that was like accessory use. That was not for the public.

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And as a definition, trucking and terminal, as for Section 14601-10i, it allows minor repair only for the main use.

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auto repair and the gas station only for the main use not for the public okay um and based upon that

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and uh did you make a determination again that uh the permit could be issued yes and the permit

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and and the permit was issued and it was a paid for and picked up by the applicant yes okay i have

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further questions. Oh, I'm sorry. Let me go back. Let me just show you very quickly. I'm going to

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skip to a smaller screen so I can do something very quickly.

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So this is one of the plans that was submitted for zoning permit 2020-000653.

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and again

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and would you agree that this is a an accurate uh true and accurate copy of the plans that you

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reviewed i have you like on 13th of january was the correct one okay the application because

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Because after the CVDGEN, they have to put the comment, and then that was the correct

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one.

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Okay, let me just see what the date is of this one.

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This is the combined.

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It looks like this revision was April 20th of 2020.

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No, I have a stamp on 13th of January.

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Okay.

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and see this was also that is for the stamp that's the stamp from the streets department

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yes okay all right thank you I'm going to show you another document then

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this is uh appears to be zoning permit plan or plan 2020-010545

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Let me just see if I can close up on this.

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And these were again submitted by these rezoning plans that were submitted to the department.

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it? Ms. Dahl, are these plans that you reviewed? Yes. Okay, thank you.

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And do you recognize this? Yeah, I do. Okay, and what is this?

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This is the unit of use permit, I guess, yeah.

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Okay. And this is the permit that basically allows the proposed uses covering both parcels, okay?

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Yes.

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And this is another permit. Do you recognize this one?

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yeah this is for the new construction okay so this is the this is the the the zoning permit

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that allows the construction yes okay thank you um and do you agree that all the documents that

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you've looked at are true and accurate copies that are in the possession of the department

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licenses and inspections yes and these were all submitted by the way through the eclipse system

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And your review of them was, you looked at the electronic version of the plans, or did

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you review paper plans?

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Electronics.

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Okay.

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So these are, in fact, not really copies.

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They are, in fact, the original plans.

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Original, yes.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Now, again, I have no further questions.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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but obviously I reserve the right for redirect.

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That is by the way, the city's case in its entirety

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and we will reserve the right for a rebuttal

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either by recalling Mr. Hall

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or and or other witnesses as necessary.

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Thank you. Would Mr. Orphanides or Toner or Mr. Cattuzzi like to go first, cross-examining the witness?

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Thank you.

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would

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Mr.

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I can go.

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I believe Mr. Primavera may have, if he wants to, I would think that he would be able to ask Mr. Hall some questions, but that's up to them.

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I'll wait until the other council have inquired.

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Fine, thank you.

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all right may i share my screen

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yes

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everybody see i have the plan up in front

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yeah mr hall how are you doing today

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I'm doing okay.

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All right. And just to be clear for the record, I don't know that there's

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maybe any of the attorneys on this call that don't deal with Ms. Dahal in the line of what we

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do on a regular basis. I submit applications. I have applications that are reviewed and permits

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that are issued by mr hall um if there are any objections uh to my examining mr hall at this

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time i'd like to hear them um but again i believe all of us have dealings with their and as well as

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other examiners at lni uh through the course of other applications we submit to lni um for other

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clients uh mr hall you stated that uh you've been a plans examiner uh with lni uh for 13 years

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correct and that's all that's been as a zoning plans examiner or yes and have you

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was that your only job you've had with l and i have you had any other jobs before that with l and i

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no okay all right and um as a as a plans examiner this application was submitted through eclipse

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when? Do you know when? 2020. Oh, sorry. I don't remember the date.

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I would assume if it was submitted via Eclipse, it would have been submitted sometime after,

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I think it was the middle of March of 2020. Maybe April 2020, I guess. April 2020.

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Okay. All right. So it was not originally submitted by paper application and then converted over to Eclipse at any time. Correct. Okay. So it came in through Eclipse and that's how it was reviewed.

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okay and do you have a copy or do you do you know

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the application that was originally submitted um have you provided those documents

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to counsel to mr reuter the application the application language and the actual plans that

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were originally submitted because i believe your testimony was these are revised plans correct

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Yeah, got it.

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Okay, so correct me if I'm wrong, when somebody submits an application via CLIPS,

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there's a box, a dialogue box, where they can enter what the application is for,

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and then there's places for them to upload plans and any other documents they may have.

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They want to have L&I to review as part of that application, is that correct?

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Correct, yes.

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And can you tell us, first of all, what was set forth in that application box as far as what was applied for, being applied for, or, and or, did they upload an actual, some other written document that described what was being applied for?

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They have the description in the detail, what they apply for.

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Everything is in the original application.

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Maybe it is under this application number, GP2020-000653.

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Everything would be under that application number, not the new construction one.

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Everything is there.

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So you're saying that if we look at permit number 00653?

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Yes.

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If you go to the Eclipse, you can find all the documents, what they applied, when they

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applied, we have all the information in there.

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So I have in front of me, and this is exhibit seven from our exhibit book, this is zoning

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permit zp 2020 000653 can you see that up on my screen

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zp 2020 000653 can you see that up on my screen yes that was the original application

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all right so i'm so i'm you said that that's how the application came in that was the original

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application number assigned to the application yes but two two permits were issued correct

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got it okay and but the two permits that come out at the back end are based upon an original

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application with the number zp 2020 000653 yes that was the original so the original

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when the matter was first assigned an application number that was the application number it was not

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ZP 2020-01-0545.

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That's just for the permit.

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That is for the new construction permit.

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That was the original one.

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ZP 2020-00-0653 was the original one.

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Right for the unit of use and the new construction

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for the warehouse distribution and terminal.

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And then you see the one permit.

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This is the original one for the unit of use.

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Second one I created for the new construction.

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So there was no application ZP2020-010545, just the permit that was issued with that number coming out of the application 000653, correct?

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They put everything in the original application.

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They put new construction and the unit of use under 000653.

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and then after that I have to clear the child application when I issue the

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unit if used permit for the new construction. Okay so the question I so the question I have if

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you're so I understand what you're stating you're stating that their details the written description

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of the project the application of what they applied for is only what was set forth is only

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what set forth on the zoning permit 2020 000653 yes this is the permit number yeah

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okay so and this is the exact sorry back to that

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and you're you're saying your testimony today is

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where under the heading approved development that's the exact language that was utilized

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by the applicant in the details of what was being applied for.

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And then somewhere in there, they had the approved uses.

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I'm trying to find out what exact language they used.

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And I believe your testimony today is the exact language they used

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is what's set forth in 00653.

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That is the same thing.

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They apply for the new constructs, unity fuse, and both.

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Election of one is a restructure

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and the warehouse and distribution,

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trucking terminals, all they apply with the same application.

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I have more big language because I have to issue the format.

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They write everything in application and they apply.

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so what i'm trying to get at mr hall is that we're trying to discern what was actually applied

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for not necessarily what the permits were that you issued but the language the language that

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the applicant used when they submitted to you they apply the same thing they apply they use

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this exact same language as appears at 000653 maybe language could be a little bit changed but

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they apply for the same thing what they apply all right so what i'm trying to find out is do you

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have can you provide to the board provide to your attorney to provide to counsel under the board

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the exact language that was submitted with the application okay for this project okay sure

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you you have it now i don't have it but i can provide it later okay and can you say today

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whether that was something that was just entered in a dialog box on Eclipse or whether that was

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