COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, December 7, 2009 10:10 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN BILL 090735 - An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Market Street, 48th Street, Haverford Avenue and 49th Street. BILL 090851 - An ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property on behalf of the City to execute and deliver a deed conveying fee simple title to certain parcels of land, located at 745-47 North 19th Street... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. The Committee on Rules is now in session. We have a quorum with Councilmembers Clarke, Greenlee, Donna Read Miller and Councilman Goode. The first bill for consideration today is Bill No. 090735, which is an ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Market Street, 48th Street Haverford Avenue and 49th Street. Mr. Kramer, please. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning, Councilman Kenney. This is Mr. Kramer, Philadelphia City Planning Commission, Division Director of the Development Planning. I am here today to testify on 3 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Bill No. 090735, which was introduced by Councilmember Blackwell October 22, 2009. Bill No. 090735 amends the Philadelphia Zoning Maps for an area bounded by Market Street, 48th Street, Haverford Avenue and 49th Street. This block is currently zoned "R-4" Residential and is proposed to be rezoned to partly "C-3" Commercial and partly "IDD" Institutional Development District. The portion of the block to be rezoned to "C-3" Commercial is the frontage along Market Street between 48th and 49th Street. On the property is an existing drugstore at the corner of 49th and Market and the rest of the property is vacant land. The change to the "C-3" Commercial designation is consistent with the level of density that should be developed here given the proximity of public transportation. The remainder of the block is the site of the Kirkbride Center, which is being proposed to be rezoned to a 4 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 zoning designation of "IDD" Institutional Development District. At this time, there are no new structures being proposed. The Center is proposing to update and to add to the surface parking being provided on the site. The current uses on the site include several forms of providing services for mental well-being of individuals and their families, including both health and educational services. At the time of the introduction of Bill 090735, the Master Plan that is indicated in Section 2 of the bill was not available. Accordingly, I respectfully request that the bill be amended to include a copy of the Master Plan as Exhibit "A." This has been submitted previously. The City Planning Commission is scheduled to consider Bill No. 090735 at its meeting of December 8, 2009. The bill will be presented with a staff 5 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 recommendation of approval. That is the conclusion of my testimony. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much. As a result of your testimony, I understand that there's no 9 new construction or nothing really is going to change on the parcel?
What is the purpose of the "IDD"? Is it for future development?
Not so much for future development, but to be more consistent with the types of uses that are currently ongoing on the site, which are not necessarily those permitted under the "R-4" designation.
And who brought to their attention that they may 6 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 not be in conformance?
That I wouldn't know. Mr. Fleming is here. He might be able to tell you that, but I don't know.
Is there anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
If I may, Mr. Christmas earlier asked me to request for a suspension of rules on this bill.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and just try to give us a little bit of a background as to how you 7 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 got to the table here this morning.
My name is John Fleming. I'm a Director of the Kirkbride Center in West Philadelphia. To give you a little bit of a history of the campus, the campus is the probably second oldest mental health campus in the country. It precedes the Zoning Code. And since my tenure about a year ago, since my father died -- he was CEO of the corporation -- we have -- and have a real estate background, we strove to clarify that for a number of reasons. One, for the Planning Commission and the City of Philadelphia itself and for our uses, which is behavioral health and social services. We want to be in compliance with all L&I issues and for our third-party tenants, which serve the community. So it's really basically updating the zoning to what we are and have always been.
Now, you brought this to the attention of the 8 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 government or the government brought it to your attention?
Okay. Great. Thank you. Any questions for this witness? (No response.)
Seeing none, anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will now move to Bill No. 16 090851, which is an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property on behalf of the City to execute and deliver a deed conveying fee simple title to certain parcels of land, located at 745-47 North 19th Street; 801-35 North 19th Street; 1825-45 Wylie Street; and 1851 Wylie Street; amending the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of 9 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 land located within an area bounded by 19th Street, Vineyard Street, Cameron Street, Francis Street, Shirley Street; and amending Section 14-1402 of the Zoning Code, entitled "Parking in Residential Districts," all under certain terms and conditions. Please identify yourself for the record, whoever is going to go first. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER HERZINS: Good morning, Chairman and members of the Committee on Rules. My name is John Herzins. I am Deputy Commissioner of Public Property. I'm here today to testify in support of the Bill No. 17 090851. A request for proposals was issued by the Office of Housing and Community Development for the development of the above-referenced parcels of land into market-rate and affordable homeownership units. Cameron Square Development was selected to construct, at a minimum, a 69-unit homeownership 10 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 development, with a requirement of seven of the units will be affordable for households earning less than 150 percent of the area median income. The $900,000 proceeds of the sale will be deposited into the General Fund. Public Property supports this measure and, accordingly, I respectfully ask that City Council approve Bill No. 11 090851. I am requesting a suspension of the rules so as to allow for first reading at the next session of Council. Thank you. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much. Anyone else who wants to give testimony before we open to questions? And also, I believe there's a proposed amendment, if someone wants to describe the purpose of that amendment for the record.
Good morning, 11 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Councilman Kenney, members of the Rules Committee. I am William Kramer, Division Director of the Development Division of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I am here to testify on Bill 7 No. 090851, which was introduced by Councilmember Clarke November 13, 2009. Bill No. 090851 authorizes the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City, to execute and deliver a deed conveying fee simple title to certain parcels of land located at 745-47 North 19th Street, 801-35 North 19th Street, 1825-45 Wylie Street and 1851 Wylie Street. It further amends the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land within the area bounded by 19th Street, Vineyard, Cameron, Francis Street and Shirley Street, as well as amending 14-1402 of the Philadelphia Zoning Code, entitled "Parking in Residential Districts," all under certain terms and conditions. 12 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 The properties being conveyed are located in the block bounded by 19th Street, Vineyard Street, Cameron Street and Wylie Street. This block will also be rezoned from an existing zoning designation of "G-2" General Industrial to zoning designations of partly "R-10B" Residential and partly "RC-4" Residential. Additionally, this bill 11 will rezone the adjacent block bounded by Shirley Street, Wylie Street, Cameron Street and Francis Street from a zoning designation of "R-5" Residential to a zoning designation of "REC" Recreational. All properties are located in the Francisville neighborhood. The project is in response to a City-issued, publicly advertised and competitive request for proposal for the development of market-rate and affordable housing on City-owned land within the Francisville neighborhood. This applicant will be purchasing the land from the City of Philadelphia and the 13 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 proposed zoning changes to the land will facilitate the development. The properties being purchased are currently vacant land or have vacant structures on the land, while the property to the south is the Francisville Playground. The owner proposes to construct single-family row houses along 19th Street, Vineyard and Cameron Street with a parking lot in the center of the property. They also propose to build a four-story condominium building with 92 residential units, combined with the first floor basic service commercial with underground parking. The property in the block bounded by Shirley Street, Wylie Street, Cameron Street and Francis Street is the Francisville Playground, which will remain in City ownership and will be rezoned to a "REC" Recreation zoning designation consistent with its current use. As a result of continuing design efforts on the part of the 14 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 developer, the bill requires an amendment which has two aspects to it. One is for the removal of relief from the parking regulations. The other is for a small change in the proposed Zoning Map to allow for an increase in the amount of the site to be zoned to "RC-4" Residential. In other words, the Section 11 14-1402 relief is being eliminated from the bill and there are some minor changes to the maps to facilitate additional -- a change to the way they were going to enter the building. The Philadelphia City Planning Commission is scheduled to consider Bill 18 No. 090851 at its meeting of December 8, 2009. This bill will be represented with a staff recommendation of approval. That is the conclusion of my testimony. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much for your testimony. 15 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Ms. McColloch, do you have anything to add? MS. McCOLLOCH: I don't need to go through -- my name is Deborah McColloch. I'm the Director of Housing. There's no need for me to repeat the entire explanation. The Office of Housing and Community Development is the agency that issued the request for proposals. We've worked closely with Councilman Clarke's office to identify appropriate residential use for this parcel, and we support the bill.
Thank you very much. Councilman Clarke, do you have anything to add?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. First, I'd just like to say thank you for your support. There is a couple things I'd like to bring to the individual's attention. This particular bill is probably a little 16 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 different than we traditionally do things, in that it is a disposition bill 4 in addition to a zoning bill. One of the things that we've been talking to Planning and Public Property about over the years is an attempt to expedite the development process, particularly when it's publicly owned land. What we found out, that in certain instances, we, the City, we sell a property to a developer or an individual and basically say, Thank you very much for your money. It's then your responsibility to go get zoning. And too often the ability to get zoning is either cumbersome, lengthy or in some instances they don't ever get it at all. And so what we're trying to do, in the event that there's a consensus among all parties involved, is just consolidate both the zoning and the disposition and, therefore, the individual developer gets a parcel of land that's ready to go and hopefully we 17 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 can have the ribbon cutting ceremony next year. Councilman.
There you go. I didn't want to say that, Councilman, but that's the other part. One quick question, though. This is a member from the development team. During the course of the discussion about the parking relief, I had asked that we have a one-for-one parking requirement, and I know that there is the ability to get relief as a result of placements of bicycle racks. In a recent e-mail I got, extremely recent, it said that the development team can in fact reach a one-for-one, but how or is it required to be as a part of the amendment, relieving the parking requirements? 18 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
The answer to that is that the removal of the -- by amending the bill to remove the relief of parking requirements means that in this instance, in order to get a zoning permit, they have to meet the contention -- or the conditions of the Zoning Code, which would require the one-to-one parking, or you can eliminate some of that by providing bike parking, the specific numbers of which I don't have, but they would have to meet that section of the Code at this point, and that's the one-to-one parking ratio.
All right. So the new amendment by essentially removing that relief from parking will accomplish the most recent commitment by the development team?
All right. I'll wait. I know we have an issue with the Community Benefits 19 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Agreement. I'll wait until the development team gets up to speak about that.
Any member of the Committee have any questions or comments of this panel? (No response.)
Seeing none, thank you very much. Is there anyone else to testify on the bill? Please come forward. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Councilman Kenney. Good morning, members of City Council. My name is Mike Malloy. Thank you for allowing me to testify this morning, and a special thanks to Councilman Greenlee and Councilman Clarke for introducing 20 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Bill 090851. My name is Mike Malloy. I'm general counsel of a company called The Hankin Group, and the principals of The Hankin Group control a company called Cameron Square Neighborhood Development, LP, which is the developer for and the party that will purchase the land from the City that we're speaking about, the City-owned property that's part of the current rezoning bill. Cameron Square, along with Sam Sherman Associates and the Dale Corporation, submitted the winning bid on the 19th and Wylie homeownership development request for proposal issued by the Philadelphia Office of Housing and Community Development. 4 acres of City-owned land around 19th and Wylie in the 5th Councilmanic District. " Bill No. " The reason for the split zoning is to allow what we hope to be a by-right development of a proposed condominium building, which will contain roughly between 55 and 62 units and around 15 townhouses around the remainder of the 16 perimeter of the triangle. We're still 17 in the design phase, but we've shown 18 preliminary drawings to Traffic and to 19 the Planning Commission, and we'll 20 continue to work with them to satisfy 21 their design requirements. 22 The RFP called for and Cameron 23 Square Neighborhood Development will make 24 available seven units within the 25 townhouses that will be affordable to 22 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 households with no more than 150 percent of the area median income, adjusted for family size, and, further, all of the units will be visitable. Cameron Square will pay $900,000 for the City-owned portion of the triangle property. Through the Francisville Neighborhood Development Corporation, or FNDC, the development team has been in discussions with the Francisville community since around 2006 about the property. The community considers this to be their, as they call the Francisville Playground and recreational center, catalyst project, and the discussion with the community has consistently revolved around two items. First, jobs for members of the community, and, second, improvements to the Francisville Playground and recreational center, which is located, by the way, directly across the street, Wylie Street, from the property. Sam Sherman, who unfortunately could not be with us 23 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 tonight, has been in negotiations with the Carpenters Union. They've received a general commitment from the Carpenters Union, which will perform first a community outreach in the Francisville neighborhood, and, second, they've committed to taking at least one qualified applicant from the community into their carpenters' apprenticeship program. Cameron Square has also committed to using its absolute best efforts to encourage the other trade unions to participate in a community hire program in a similar way and are looking for opportunities to plug skilled and unskilled laborers from the community into the project. With respect to economic opportunity, the RFP required and Cameron Square is committed to, at a minimum, requiring a 20 to 25 percent minority, women and disabled-owned businesses for hiring for all construction costs and 20 to 25 percent MBE, WBE and DBE hiring for 24 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 soft costs. The Dale Corporation, which some of you might be familiar with, is the likely GC for the job. They have a long history of not only meeting but far exceeding MBE, WBE and DBE requirements on the construction side, and we expect to be no different here. Cameron Square will also make a substantial capital contribution toward the improvement of the Francisville Playground and recreational center.
The improvements could include upgrades to playground equipment, new lighting, trees, improvements to the baseball field, et cetera. Cameron Square also will contribute the time and efforts of its in-house architects, engineers and attorney, being me, to assist the FNDC with writing grant proposals, obtaining approvals from the City of Philadelphia and evaluating the feasibility of some of their proposed improvements to the playground. 25 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 We expect the price range of units to be between the low 300's and the high 400,000 range. The start date of the project will depend pretty much on market conditions, and we anticipate that the project will have many green components. Considering the residential zoning and the quality of the surrounding neighborhood, we believe that a rezoning from the "G-2" Industrial to "R-10B" and "RC-4" is appropriate. Thank you for your time, and I welcome any questions.
You certainly mention in your testimony and I want to acknowledge that the long 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 discussions you've had over a couple years with the community, and we all thank you for that, because it makes life a lot easier for all of us if it can get worked out. Would you say that you have met -- and I know the community is going to testify here -- most of the concerns that the residents have raised over this time?
It depends on what you mean by "concerns," Councilman. Let me explain a little bit of where we are in the process.
We during the RFP process came to the community, presented a general overview of what we considered the project would be. The community definitely on design issues of the project pushed back, said they wanted a more signature project. They wanted a project that was more green. We went back, sharpened our 27 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 pencils, and we are still, after selecting an architect that we felt we could work with well, we're still in the design phases, but we anticipate to satisfy their design requirements in the community. As far as the economic opportunity or the community hiring and the contributions to the playground, the community gave us a draft of the Community Benefits Agreement. We had a long conference call with the head of FNDC and the head of their Park and Rec Committee on Friday. It was about two hours long, where we hammered out many, many of the details. I just didn't have the time to put together a new draft over the weekend in time for this morning's hearing, but I would say we're looking at a contribution of around $250,000 to the park improvements, and the community seemed satisfied with a program that we've set forth involving the Carpenters Union, encouraging other trades to do the 28 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 same and to try and get skilled and unskilled workers in the community involved in the project. The way that we've been approaching hiring for the project is, we literally draw a circle around Francisville, we start there, and then start expanding our scope for people who are contracting. This is the first time that we are developing in the City and so we're looking for input and guidance in hiring some new people, new contractors and such in the City.
Again, I do want to acknowledge your cooperation. I talked to Mr. Sherman, and he talked about the things he worked out with the Carpenters Union, and that's certainly great, and the improvements to the Francisville rec center will be appreciated by a whole lot of folks too certainly. Just two quick things. One, on the green issue, I know you said you're 29 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 still working that out. Can you be a little bit more specific at all? Because I know that was raised by one resident today.
Sure. We've kind of tended -- we've been working with Katherine Gajewski, who is the Sustainability Director. We're hoping -- I don't want to make any commitment, but we're hoping that this will become a Philadelphia Greenworks project. We're working with her to decide what that is. The way that we've been approaching green, we've also -- I'm not sure if you're familiar with Brian Ewer (ph). We've been in discussions with him. He's actually a consultant that the City Sustainability Office has brought in to assist with their Greenworks project, and we've been speaking with Mr. Ewer as well to hopefully hire him on as a consultant on this job. And our approach has been, we don't want to do green just for green's sake. We want the green 30 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 elements that we put into the project to have a definitive effect on our purchasers' energy savings, and that's how we've been approaching the green technology. We anticipate that there will be sophisticated storm water management controls, that we will be doing some sort of a green roof, that we will be looking for high-efficiency, energy-efficient appliances, energy-efficient design, things like that, green elements. But at the end of the day, we don't -- we want it to be substantive, I think, and our buyers, the people who ultimately live there, to really see an energy savings, and those are the kind of green items that we're looking to put in.
I appreciate that. And, lastly, on the parking, just so I'm clear -- and I know that it was discussed in the previous panel -- your goal is to have the one-for-one? 31 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
The townhouse component of the development has always been one-to-one. So we don't even have to discuss that part. The condo -- before we kind of got into the design, we literally didn't think we could fit enough under the ground. Our designs are showing that we can probably fit 55, 56 spaces underground. We think the condo would go between 55 and 62 units when all is said and done. We believe with the City's bike ordinance, the bicycle parking ordinance that goes into effect, it gives a maximum of ten percent reduction in parking, that we can then meet the by-right requirements under "RC-4."
Because I think that is important. I know a little bit about this area since besides being a Councilperson, I'm the Democratic Ward Leader there, and I have seen both in Francisville, Spring Garden, Fairmount, when developments are built, I know 32 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 ideally the idea is for people not to bring their cars, but they do. And parking, I know where it was never a problem or hardly a problem in Francisville has become one recently. So I would certainly urge to try to meet that requirement as closely as possible. I mean, it would be great if more folks rode their bikes and more folks took public transportation -- and public transportation is very good in that area, or at least better than a lot of areas, but still people love their cars.
When we met with Councilman Clarke, he was pretty clear on what he wanted in his priorities, and that's why we went back and did some more homework on it and said, You know what, he's right, let's see what we can do. We will take advantage of the bicycle reduction. It's not just going to be -- the bicycle parking will probably -- again, I'm working without 33 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 the benefit of some finalized designs, but we expect the bicycle parking to be much more extensive than just what's required to eliminate the parking spaces as well.
And just for the benefit of the committee -- and I know Councilman Clarke knows this -- Francisville rec center, which you're going to help in fixing up, is a very active center in that neighborhood. People are in it all -- I've been to about a hundred meetings in that place, and that's great for the whole community, because it is certainly a used and needed facility in that neighborhood.
It's a great resource. It's great for our development. We see a great partnership for years to come.
Thank you 34 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 very much. Councilwoman Brown.
I would like to follow up on Councilman Greenlee's questions regarding sustainability and being and going green. You stated, and I quote, "We hope we will be able to go green," and then you added an explanation. So what would be the one, two or three impediments towards -- let me just ask the question. What would be the one, two or three impediments you would envision or anticipate that will get in the way of trying to make the project as green as possible?
I'm sorry. We don't see any impediments. We are committed to a green project. I think that when you start 35 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 looking at, though, costs versus benefit, the heavy, heavy-duty costs involved in putting, for instance, a --
-- a green roof across the entire condo building that is three foot deep with dirt on the top, I mean, it gets to be -- the costs and benefits don't align all the time. So that's the only, I guess -- let me rephrase, then. That's the only impediment, would be when costs versus benefit to the community versus benefit to the environment don't cross.
Are you at the point yet where you're actually indicating in your proposal where those green opportunities might be?
All right, then. Let me suggest as a starter point, Councilman Greenlee has spoken of the 36 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 recreation play area. They have -- and I'm sure Councilman Kenney knows the details of this far better than I, but I do know that they make rubber padding flooring for play areas, and there are some aspects of that world, of the green sustainability world, which do have low investment on the front end. So I guess the request from this side of the table is to remain vigilant in exploring all those possibilities as you go forward with this development.
Absolutely. We can make that commitment right now. We will. We'll diligently pursue all avenues of green. The one in particular that you mentioned, I mean, I know that the FNDC created the comprehensive plan Moving Francisville Forward, which you may or may not be familiar with, but Francisville considers itself and would like to constantly move itself in a green sustainable direction, and part of that green vision is the vision of a 37 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 sustainable or more sustainable park, and we'll be looking to include -- it could be removal of impervious surface and a greening, literally as far as that. When we go to do the playground equipment, looking for pervious surfaces like the one mentioned, which do have a low cost. We're aware of that. We were just talking about that last week, what would we put on the ground. So absolutely. We're committed to making the project as green as possible within our budgetary constraints.
Thank you very much. Just a word of advice. If you have not done the analysis yet relative 38 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 to green roof technology, obviously when you're building a new building, it's so much easier to do than a retrofit. I don't know if your company has issues relative to the business privilege tax, but there is $100,000 maximum credit on your BPT you can get as a result of the installation. And the other analysis I think you should do -- and maybe you guys are doing it already -- is on the new construction, green roof technology does expand the life of your roof and reduces your energy costs. So I'm hoping in that financial analysis all those issues are considered. Not that it has to be a green roof. It could be a number of other different sustainable efforts to make it more green. Are you attempting to go after any certification, LEED or Energy Star, or is that still not determined?
It's not determined. The cost involved, the per 39 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 unit cost in getting LEED certification, may outweigh the benefit of LEED certification, but we're considering it.
And I do agree with you that the analysis on how it affects the bottom line of your tenants and homeowners is important, because that's what's really going to drive green technology forward. It's not just for the purpose of it. You need to show some return. And the other thing I would check with is, I would get in touch with the Water Department through Councilman Clarke and see whether or not the new calculations on storm water handling, is that going to affect the new state regulations that the City has to enact, will that affect in any way your bottom line when it comes to reducing the speed at which storm water goes into your storm water system.
Thank you, Councilman. We actually have a meeting 40 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 set with the Water Department in the next couple of weeks.
Very quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned in your testimony that basically the T's aren't crossed, the I's aren't quite dotted on the Community Benefits Agreement, but I know you're close. When would you see -- and I know since it's an agreement, it involves the community too, but when would you see that you can finish all this up realistically?
I think there's been a request to finish it up this week, by Thursday. You know, we had quite a long call and not a lot of disagreement on anything. So I expect that when I get back to the office today, I'll be working around the clock to get that done and get the drafts finished.
I just 41 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 wanted to get that on record. And, again, I commend you. You have worked with -- the whole group has worked with the community very well. We all appreciate that.
Thank you very much. Any other questions for this witness? (No response.)
Seeing none, who else is here to testify for this bill? Please come forward. Sir, you might want to remain in case there's some questions you can answer while we're doing this.
Sure. (Witnesses approached witness table.) 42 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Yes. Good morning. Penelope Giles, Founder and Executive Director for the Francisville Neighborhood Development Corporation, and I'd just like to submit some testimony regarding Bill 090851. First of all, I'd like to say that the bill and this initiative is consistent with the neighborhood plan, except for the missing green aspects, which you've been talking about. And not to go over all of the notes that I took, because you covered some of it, of course a green roof would be great, but I've not heard any suggestion about the parking lot surface being pervious. I think storm water management in the City is a big, big deal. So if we had to choose, we would rather have a pervious surface in the parking lot and maybe have the roof ready to be greened. 43 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 So if that will save any money. Also, regarding the rezoning of the property to "RC-4," my question was how high -- we know that the developers are planning to build a four-story condo building. We would be okay with five, but we don't want to have some situation where this project not go forward, the zoning has been changed and then we get a new developer wanting to put a skyscraper in that location. So could there be some kind of deed restriction in terms of the number of stories?
Perhaps, Mr. Kramer, if you're aware of what the limitations are on "RC-4" relative to height, if there are any, or through Councilman Clarke's office, we could get back to the witness. (Witness approached witness table.)
Under the Code, the "RC-4" does not have a height limit specifically. So she's absolutely 44 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 correct, there is none that I have at this point.
I'm sure Councilman Clarke will be working through that issue as the week goes on.
The developer would be happy to put a deed restriction, and we always anticipated a deed restriction that would say we would comply with the RFP or whatever the final design looks -- we're not looking to build a skyscraper in Francisville. That's the last thing we want to do.
Okay. Well -- all right. Outside of those few issues and the Community Benefits Agreement, we have had very amicable discussions and negotiations with the developer. We think we're going to have a signature project. On the record, though, I would like to say that the community was very, very clear in its desire to have a LEED certified project. Platinum would be great, but certainly we need a signature 45 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 project. This is the project that will be the catalyst for the redevelopment, revitalization of the commercial corridor that will bring the amount of density and income diversity that we need to move the revitalization of the commercial corridor forward. So we want it to be something that's going to stand out, not just in the City but in the country, and we have full confidence that the developer selected can make that happen.
Thank you very much. Could you please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Kevin Young. I'm a resident of Francisville and a long-term member of the Francisville Neighborhood Development Corporation. Some of the issues -- and we're still working through them, as you know, given the community partnership agreement. We really feel that time is 46 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 needed to create a budget and to review what exactly is going to be done in that park. The numbers at this point are, while somewhat acceptable, we have not fully agreed to a $250,000 contribution. We still have to take some time in evaluating what exactly we are trying to achieve there and real numbers and get numbers back from designers, from architects that are within our community. And as you can imagine, we are a non-profit body that cannot go out and seek a $50,000 consult. So the 250,000 is still at bay, and we will get back to you on that. The next issue is the planning of the space and the height limitation to be included in this bill or through an addendum to the bill. And last, but not least, Penelope also mentioned this again. The community made it very clear that we want a green project that takes into consideration the new economy and the way 47 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 that development is going to be carried now and in the future.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Just real quick, I just want to make it for the record, because I know as one of the Councilmembers who had been in the early phases of the start of these Community Benefits Agreement, the Community Benefits Agreements are negotiated exhibits, memorandums of understanding, and I don't want people walking away thinking that the passage of this bill 18 will be subject to the specifics of the Community Benefits Agreement. I just want to make it clear that if a developer makes an offer, because under the law there are certain things that you can require as a part of the Community Benefits Agreement, when you start getting into dollars 48 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 contributed to certain groups and things of that nature, then you're getting in a very, very fuzzy area that I'm not, frankly speaking, prepared to go. From my perspective, I think that there is a requirement by a developer to hire local people. I think there is a requirement for a developer to do a project that's beneficial to the community. Beyond that, when you start talking about contributions and when you start talking about things going to groups or individuals, it must be negotiated. Personally, I'm not going to be a part of a process that basically puts a hammer over a person's head and tells them they have to elevate the level of contributions to an organization or to an individual to require the passage of the bill. So I just want to make that very clear as it relates to that.
If I could just comment to kind of bring more clarification to what Waseem (ph) is 49 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 getting at and just for the sake of you guys understanding what's been happening. Waseem -- I just really brought him up to speed on the negotiations. So the $250,000 number is an actual dollar cap, but the developers have offered their in-kind services, which could drive that number up to a half a million or anywhere -- wherever we settle on, which will give us what we need to leverage to get additional funding and stuff like that. So we definitely do not want to -- this is -- we understand that this is not anything that we can make the developer do. This is what they're offering. It's a freewill gesture. We're not going to hold the project hostage over money. That's extortion, and we're not extorting --
I didn't want to use that term, but I think you understand where I am.
I think the record is clear that whatever is negotiated or agreed to has nothing whatsoever to do with the passage of the bill.
One of the other things we suggest also is perhaps, through Councilman Clarke, to have our own Recreation Department, if they haven't done so already, to be out there, because we really have some talented folks in there that could cut those costs of design and planning down, and they also know what's needed for the center. So perhaps they can play a role also. And I'm sure as you go forward with this, Councilman Clarke and Councilman Greenlee will continue to be involved. 51 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Councilman Greenlee.
Yes. I'm glad you brought that up, Mr. Chairman, because we did something similar just very south of that at Roberto Clemente, including the Rec people, and you're absolutely right, they need to be part of the process. And I'm sure you all agree with that. But if I could just say one other thing just about Francisville. I kid Penny a lot that I was where she was about years ago when Fairmount got 16 discovered, and the Francisville 17 community -- and there's other people 18 here, including the Ward Chair over 19 there, Delores Dandridge, who is a 20 long-time resident -- I think has handled 21 this the right way. They neither tried 22 to be total obstructionists or they 23 haven't just laid down and said, Okay, we 24 can't stop you. They've tried to work 25 with people very closely and have 52 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 basically said, We welcome people coming in, but we're going to be here too and we're going to be part and going to stay part of the community. And I think everybody involved, including the developer, who has certainly acknowledged that too, needs to be congratulated on that. So I just wanted to put that part on the record. Thank you.
Yes. Hi. Good morning, everybody. Sitting here listening to this project, I actually thought Francisville Playground was where you just did the slide at the pool, across from Fleet.
No; Brewerytown. 53 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I thought that was Francisville.
But anyway, I actually would be very interested in seeing the results, what happens, what finally happens with what you call your signature project, because it sounds really good. It sounds like you've covered a lot of the bases with our Councilpersons around issues of inclusion and the Community Benefits Agreement. So I'm really looking forward to hearing the results of this project.
And work really hard on getting the construction trades unions to accept other apprentice.
Now that you 54 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 mention that, I would like to get that on the record, just to ask you guys, because we know how hard it is to break into the trades union. We know what the situation is, and we think that this is a good first step to create a model for the other trades unions to follow. So that's our real objective in this. We're not trying to change the world. We just want to take that step.
I can tell you everyone at this table at one time or another has had an issue relative to inclusion in the building trades. From Councilman Goode all the way to Councilwoman Brown at the table have gone toe-to-toe and tried to make that happen. And you're right, it is not an easy thing to do, but I do believe that there are locals and district councils within the trades that are cooperative, and I find 55 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 the Carpenters generally will sit down and talk and try to do their best. So I think it's chipping away a little bit at a time, but the world does need to change, because our folks living in Philadelphia need to work.
Just a point of clarification. The requests are very much, that the community is placing, make this project very much saleable and will forever create a positive and beautiful life-style for the residents of Francisville. I absolutely did not mean to come across in any way stating payoff of anybody or any organization. This is for the benefit of --
Councilman Clarke wants to make sure that someone reading this transcript six months, a year from now, two years from now understands that that's the case. 56 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
Understood. And I want the case to be made clear that what I'm presenting is --
Any other questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
Seeing none, anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
I just had one question of Ms. McColloch, one statement to Ms. McColloch. It could be after the community testimony.
Good 57 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 morning. Please identify yourself.
Good morning. My name is Edna M. Williams. I'm a long-time resident of Francisville located at 1622 Ridge Avenue, Mary Jane Home. I just want to go -- I would like to go on the record that I strongly support the project.
Great. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming in. I appreciate it. Anyone else? We have one more. (Witness approached witness table.)
Mr. Chairman, the next witness might act like she's shy. Trust me, she's not.
I know. You don't need to warn me. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Delores Dandridge. I'm the Ward Chair for the 15th Ward, Committee 58 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 Person. I just want to go on the record and say that I do approve or support this project here. We've worked hard in the community dealing with issues to get this off the ground, and finally it's happening, and I'm just glad that we are beginning to start the project.
Thank you very much for Councilman Bill Greenlee and Councilman Clarke for supporting us in meetings and things like that that the community had to do. Thank you again, and, again, I say I do support the project.
Thank you very much for coming in and giving testimony. Anyone else have any more comments or questions? (No response.)
Seeing none, that will conclude our public hearing -- 59 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
Please identify yourself one more time. MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm Deborah McColloch, Director of Housing.
Good morning again, Ms. McColloch. Ms. McColloch, real briefly, related but unrelated. In the RFP for this project, we put a stipulation or requirement that a portion of this project had to be affordable. MS. McCOLLOCH: Ten percent of the units have to be affordable.
And the City of Philadelphia put no subsidy in this project? MS. McCOLLOCH: That is 60 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 correct.
If the City of Philadelphia, per a pending ordinance 5 that we have -- and I hope it's okay for me talking about pending legislation -- called the inclusionary housing bill that has a requirement of ten percent of any units above being affordable, if in 10 the case that this bill that put no City 11 subsidy did not reduce the market value, 12 did not put any of the other 13 incentive-based aspects of the 14 inclusionary housing bill, is it likely 15 that this could have been maybe 15 or 20 16 percent of affordability if we had some 17 other incentives in this project? 18 MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I 19 just want to understand the question. 20 You mean if we had provided a subsidy for affordable housing?
No. Say, for instance, this bill -- say we incorporated -- we incorporated the bottom line of the premise of the 61 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 inclusionary housing. It was ten percent that had to be affordable. But beyond that, we put none of the inclusionary housing incentives in this particular proposal, RFP. If we had put the other things in the inclusionary housing bill 8 in this RFP -- and I know this is an extremely leading question -- is it likely that you could have had more affordability, additional units, substantially stronger commitment -- and I appreciate the commitment for platinum certified -- additional commitments to the recreation center and things of that nature because we would have been able to reduce the cost of the project; therefore, allowing it to be those things that I mentioned earlier as a part of this project? MS. McCOLLOCH: If we had provided additional incentives, I believe we could have achieved greater affordable housing numbers. Beyond that, I mean, it would be -- I don't know what else the 62 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 developer would have offered.
But at the end of the day, it would have reduced the cost and it would have shifted the reduction to other things? What I'm getting at is that during the course of the inclusionary housing -- and we had a number of hearings, and it got rather testy from the market-rate development community -- they were saying there was no way that we can do inclusionary housing with all of the incentives that we put on the table, and particularly in this climate, and here we have a developer who is prepared to make those contributions, affordability -- and we didn't even ask him about the green aspect of the project -- contribution to the local recreation center, but not a dime of City money. So I just want to say for the record for those developers -- and I know they're not listening now. They're 63 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 probably out building houses somewhere in the suburbs or whatever -- the reality is that we can do inclusionary housing in the City of Philadelphia. We've proven it here, as we have at 10th and Wallace, which was another project that was a market-rate project where ten percent of the units were sold to affordable families. In this case, we are also in the process of doing that, that it is in fact true that we can build inclusionary housing in the City of Philadelphia, in this case without City dollars but with City support. It's a definite that we can do that, and I just want to say for the record. I understand that that's a policy level -- MS. McCOLLOCH: It's certainly possible in this particular venture that's before us today, yes.
Okay. I'm not asking you to go beyond this venture. I'm just putting it for the record. I'm not asking you to answer the very leading 64 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 question. All right. Mr. Chairman, I got my leading question on the record.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Any other comments from anyone in the room? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will conclude our public hearing and we will now enter our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee for an amendment that's been proposed to Bill 090735.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move the adoption of the amendment to Bill 090735. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded. All in favor? 65 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 (Aye.)
The amendment is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Greenlee for a motion on the amended bill, with a rules suspension.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 11 090735, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and move further that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
There are none opposed. Bill No. 090735, as amended, is reported out of this committee favorably and a request made 66 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851 for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Clarke for a motion to approve the amendment to Bill 090851.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move for the adoption of the amendment to Bill No. 090851. (Duly seconded.)
There are none opposed. The amendment is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Clarke on the amended bill.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 090851 be reported out of the committee, as amended, with a favorable recommendation and a request for suspension of the rules. (Duly seconded.) 67 12/7/09 - RULES - BILLS 090735 & 090851
There are none opposed. Bill No. 090851, as amended, is reported out of this committee favorably and a request made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. That concludes the business of the Rules Committee. Thank you all for your attendance and your input. Have a nice day. (Committee on Rules concluded at 11:05 a.m.) - - - 68 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on December 7, 2009, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)