civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 6, 2026

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 6, 20267h 28m

Thank you.

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Good morning, everyone.

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My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing today's meeting of the Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment.

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With me is our Vice Chair, Tenetta Graham.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Our Secretary, Shara Elgaston.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Our Board Member, Michael Johns.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Board Member, Taya Nguyen.

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She should be here any minute.

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And our Board Member, Ryan McAdams.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Also present is our Board Attorney, Hillary Emerson.

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our zba director ian haggerty and our board administrator lakeisha dandy this hearing is

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being recorded and will be posted on the zba website by participating you consent to be

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recorded this is an in-person meeting with remote capable capabilities whether in person or on zoom

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if you're called to speak please state and spell your name and wait to be sworn in after that

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state your name each time before testifying to enter your appearance, indicate the property

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address with your register on Zoom, speak with a staff member, call the ZBA office by

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the close of business tomorrow at 215-689-2429 and provide your name email address and the case

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address remote participants raise your virtual hand when directed so when we can call on you to

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speak when you call when we call on you please you must click the join the as a panelist button

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the q a is only for um procedural questions not comments if you are joining by phone press star

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nine to raise your hand and source six to unmute and participate in person participants

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and testifying get close to the mic so that all attendees and the court reporter can hear you

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no eating no eating drinking or talking during the hearings aggressive behavior will be not

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tolerated in an emergency file staff instructions the main exit is through the rear doors the

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nearest stairwell is to the left if we evacuate go to love park across from our street and remain

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there so that we can account for you let's look at our schedule for today

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Get through our add-ons here.

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number one MI 283-006-613-503-35

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Duffin street um is the person present

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joseph vaccaro is the attorney good morning chair this is jason handle will be your call

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sorry good morning chair uh he's being promoted to panelists joseph thank you

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good morning morning council could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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joseph j-o-s-e-p-h the caro va c-c-a-r-o attorney for the applicant stephanie and francisco llc

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth yes i do so mr

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for caro this is the fourth listing could you give us a quick update yes we've had a meeting

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Yes. We've had a meeting with the RCO, which had issued a denial or refusal letter. So we'd like to re-engage with the RCO to hopefully try to change some minds.

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with the rco which had issued a denial

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So this is the fourth listing, and we still have no paperwork or anything of that nature from you. We're going to vote to dismiss this.

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If the board is going to dismiss, could we at least avoid the two-year rule so that we could reapply?

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We're not going to do that, Mr. Vaccaro. We're going to dismiss this case. So MI 2023-006-613-5030-5033-35, Duffield Street, I vote to dismiss.

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Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is to dismiss.

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number seven mi 2025 004 587 45 13 to 15 tacawana street um

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aletta astrander is the listed owner this is the second listing no exhibits

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Joseph Vicarra. I'm sorry. Again, Joseph Vicarra on behalf of the applicant, Carlos Soto. He's the

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tenant on the property. You're on this one too, Joe? Yes, sir. Oh, I don't want to have that. So

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this is the second listing. We have no exhibits, Joe. Yes. We also have a letter of opposition

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from the RCO. We'd like to re-engage with them. Okay. So what we'll do is we're going to continue

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this one this one's only two listings so mi 20 25 004 587 45 13 to 15 tacawana street this case

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is continued to 8 21 20 26 at 9 30 a.m i appreciate it thank you thank you that concludes my business

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And number 11, MI 2025-006-997-9201 Potter Street. This case is continued until 825-2026 at 930 a.m.

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oh okay so sorry Mr. Chair going back to to number seven it's continued to eight uh that's

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45 13 to 15 Takawana Street that's continued to 8 25 26 and 9 30. okay yeah thank you

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okay we're we're at now um number 13 mi 2025 007 011 34 45 melville street

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no exhibits first listing port richmond warehouse incorporated as listed owner

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No hands at this time, Chair.

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So this is the first listing.

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So MI 2025-007-011-3445 Melville Street.

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This case is continued to 825-2026 at 930 a.m.

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Chair, this is the entire executive director.

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Can we please mark that must be heard since we haven't heard from the applicant in that matter?

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Thank you.

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That case is marked must be heard.

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And number 14, MI 2025-007-014-133 Maritas Street, Oakley Stanbury, Oakley Stanbury is the listed owner. No exhibits, first listing.

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No hands at this time, Chair.

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okay so mi2025007014133 maria street this case is continued mark must be heard till 8 25 20 26

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at 9 30 a.m are there any other requests for continuances

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no hands at this time okay

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we're going to go to our add-on list number one mi 2025 006

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MI-2025-006-633-1246-57 North South 17th Street, I vote yes with proviso per amended refusal dated 5-5-26.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Excuse me. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with Proviso.

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Tannetta Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with Proviso.

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Number two, MI 2021-004-387-6809 Woodland Avenue.

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and mr charl reed uh the planning recommendation yes into this one we had we had held it for video

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review by a board member so this is the recommendation of the philadelphia city

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planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning from the existing

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rsa3 residential single-family zoning at this location the appellant has demonstrated that the

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proposed use will not cause detrimental impacts beyond what would reasonably be expected the

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planning commission recommends the board grant the requested special exception for personal care home

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i vote yes with proviso per amended refusal dated september 10th 2025

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temporary variance expires 5 7 31 and trash stored in rear outside

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uh michael johns i confirm that i have reviewed the video of the hearing from 4

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8-428 of the resumption hearing for 6809 Woodland Avenue and my vote is yes with proviso.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Tywin, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Is that it? We're good. Okay, thank you. Number three.

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MI-2025-002-377-6517 Ray Street, I vote no.

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Michael Johns, my vote is no.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is no.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is no.

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Ryan Wynn, my vote is no.

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Number four, MI-2025-002-476-157-61 Bybury Road, I vote no.

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Michael Johns, my vote is no.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

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Tannetta Graham, my vote is no.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is no.

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Tayaway, my vote is no.

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number five mi 2022 001 391 5221 averford avenue i vote yes um

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hold on do we have a proviso with this no i vote yes

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JOHNS, MY VOTE IS YES.

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MR. JOHNS, YOU'RE RECUSED FROM THIS MATTER.

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OH, I'M SORRY, I'M RECUSED MYSELF, SORRY ABOUT THAT, SORRY ABOUT THAT.

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I, CHERYL GASTON, CERTIFIED THAT I WATCHED THE APRIL 17, 2024 VIDEO RECORDING OF HEARING

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IN THIS MATTER, AND MY VOTE IS YES.

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I, Tanetta Graham, certify that I watched the April 17th, 2024 video recording of the hearing in this matter, and my vote is yes.

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I, Ryan McAdams, certify that I watched the video of April 17th, 2024, I'm sorry, the video recording on the hearing on this matter, and my vote is yes.

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I, Taya Nguyen, certify that I watched the April 17th, 2024 video recording of this matter, and my vote is yes.

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Number six, MI 2025, 006-75-750-6151 Market Street.

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The vote in this matter has been rescheduled to Wednesday, May 13th, 2026 at 9.30 a.m.

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Start with our first case, number 12.

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We're going to start with our first case, number 12, MI-2025-006-998-6354 Ray Street.

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we're going to start with our

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Craig Sobobley is the attorney.

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Revere Street, yes.

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Revere Street?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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we also need a spanish interpreter

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they're being promoted to panelists i'm already here

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they're promoted to panelists share okay good morning board uh but could you wait till i'm

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to have an interpreter come on i am right here your honor interpreter yes do we share oh i see

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it okay could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer consuelo villa gomez spanish

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interpreter c-o-n-s-u-e-l-o villa gomez via sin victor i-l-l-a-g-o-m-e-z right do you swear or

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firm that you will interpret accurately completely and impartially from english to spanish and from

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spanish to english to the best of your ability i do you please um turn on your video if you have it

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please thank you very much you're welcome counsel could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer uh craig sobel c-r-a-i-g-s-o-b-e-l attorney for the applicant uh miss diana

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francois suero and she is to my right right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

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truth nothing but the truth you counsel you oh i do okay i didn't know if yours yes wearing her in

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we're gonna this is the one we're gonna just part-time or yeah so mr sobel just to clarify um

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your the term i'm gonna you're gonna present i'm gonna present okay and does your presentation

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need to be interpreted for your client

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or have you already discussed it with her?

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I've already discussed it.

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Okay. All right.

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So the interpreter will have you

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in case we have questions for the client

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and you can interpret the board's vote and such for her.

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But we'll have the client in, right?

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If she needs to testify, yes.

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Okay. Is she going to testify, counsel?

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I don't see any reason that she would,

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But I may ask at the end, does she want to, you know, add anything or, you know, after she adopts and affirms what I present to the board?

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So, counsel, just for a point of information, you have unanimous support from the RCO and a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Lozada.

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Our vice chair has a few questions.

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Good morning.

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Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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yes i have okay and do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy

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yes i do i think you can share your screen and proceed with your case

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okay

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uh right i'm gonna

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look for my

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Exhibits.

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Bear with me, please.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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This is our P1 exhibit, and it's our application for

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and it's her application for the uh use of the but sir uh you you got to open up some of these

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documents am i correct uh sorry to your documents sir we we see uh you've seen the whole document

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no that's it just says pdfs okay hold on

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that is not what

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do me a favor stop sharing and then come back in again am i correct

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stop sharing and then come back in reshare okay now come back in and reshare

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and

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you're just seeing these pdfs here we see we don't see anything right now

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can you see this no we see you

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If you have to share the screen all over again, they're saying.

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Here you go.

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This should work.

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Did you see that?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, we see it now.

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Okay.

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And so this is her application, along with she's a licensed nail tech with with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

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And she wishes to put on the first floor of her corner residence, which used to be a doctor's office, a small nail salon,

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um which roughly would have three um chairs which she would service alone and it would be up by

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appointment only um so so counsel we have all your paperwork why don't you start showing us

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photos and copies of uh okay your plans

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this is the refusal yeah we have all your paperwork

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okay yeah so why don't you go to photos and plans

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photos okay

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so this is this is the architect plan

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currently the property was a was a three-room sort of doctor's office that she wants to convert

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to a kind of a general three-bay nail salon area it has an independent entrance

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from the street which i'll show you in a minute

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so this is the corner her corner property uh it's i think p11 here's the entrance it's an old

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not used anymore kind of doctor's office it's it's got a side entrance that's what where she

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would put the nail salon it's got a rear back entrance um as well this is a picture of her

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property from the front she's the corner unit at revere and uh levick

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and here's a google map view of

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of this is her property with the pin on levick on the corner post this is the outside

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let me show you some interior shots why do that so the the inside of the property is a is a three

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room this one is from the back toward the front of the property

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um toward the front of the property

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that one is

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now that's a

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shot of the rear exit

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this would be the general area i've got a better shot i think here's a better shot

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So this would be the main area where you would come in and as you can see in the architect plan, she's going to remove these little rooms and just make a general space where she'll have the three bays for the nails, manicures, pedicures solely.

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No, no other spa services. And in the back, she's going to have a storage room.

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Let me see if I can share pictures, a better picture of the front.

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Maybe if I stop sharing.

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And. This is a better picture of the entrance to this. Lower level, and there's no no interior access from her house to the lower area.

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and that at one time was a doctor's office right and at one time it was a doctor's office okay

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and i think those are all the pictures i put your put your plans back up okay question questions

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from the board uh the court we're going to accept his testimony am i correct hillary yes we can yep

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do you want to see the uh exhibits again no just the plans the plans just put the plan that's it

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that's it okay questions from the board how did the rco meeting go uh we had full support of the

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I believe, 26 people in the neighborhood.

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I believe 16 were remote by phone or.

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And it's community community on the rise.

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What about your directly adjacent neighbors?

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They fully support as well.

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From what I.

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You have letters or anything from them?

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I don't have any letters from them.

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But there's only one neighbor because it's an end unit on Levek.

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Other questions?

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What is happening in that rear room behind the, I guess those are for the pedicure chairs?

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So the rear room would be a storage room for supplies, this area.

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Okay, and is the only sink the one in the powder room?

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And there's the sinks across the way, and there's a little, like, kind of reception area right here.

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But as far as the only sink, there will be one bathroom.

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I was less worried about the bathroom.

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I just have never been to an old salon that didn't have a utility.

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oh they'll be they'll be you know in the uh to the actual three bays they'll need to have uh

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water like i've never seen a i've never seen a nailed seat have water access so i mean i've

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seen the chairs right but not but like typically they need a utility sink to be able to like clean

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and wash hands and deal with a lot of the products that they bring in and i'm just wondering is there

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in the stories

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va a tener necesita interpretación señor si va a tener usted algún fregadero para materiales

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además del lavabo del baño en esta área de almacenaje

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lavadero como de ropa

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lavadero como de ropa el lavabo para limpiar cosas the sink to clean your

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I do need one.

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Necesito, por favor, señora, que me diga su nombre completo y me lo deletre.

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Diana Francois Suero.

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Diana Francois Suero.

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Could you spell it please?

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N, N, C de casa, C, O, E, I, S, S, S, U, E, R, O.

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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say yes okay could you we continue where we were her answers relative to the sinks

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what's the answer me repite su respuesta señora

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Could you repeat, please?

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Yes, I have always been really careful with every tool and

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utensil that i use all of the materials that i need to prevent any infection either bacteria

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or whatever in my job i have been doing this for years and i know that cleaning it's essential for

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the prevention of uh you know in the care of the health of every client i i also believe that the

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rco i looked just in my file she commented that the utensils aren't necessarily um like washed

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in a sink there's a uh desanitizer machine that she has where all the tools get put after each

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client to be esteemed or cleaned I'm not I I have a note as that how she cleans

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that the only like there's gonna be the like yes the sanitizer machine is in

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most nail salons but there's usually other solutions that they're handling

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right right she's only going to use the sink that's in the bathroom for the

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operations el único lavabo que va usted a utilizar para la operación el único lavabo es el que esté

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en el baño no no no aparte de del lavado del baño creo que necesito otro porque no puedo mezclar los

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utensilios que uso para los clientes en el baño. So se necesita uno aparte. Aquí yo tengo videos

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también de... So I know on top of the one that is in the bathroom, I think I need another one

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because I cannot be mixing my tools with, you know, the things that are in the bathroom for

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the clients. So I need one on top of that. And I have videos here. Yep, I think we're on the same

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page. I hear what you're saying. It's just not on the plan. I don't see it on the plan.

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I hear what she's saying. It's just not on the plan. It's I don't see on the plan either board member, but she intends to put, I guess, another sink for the mixing of the.

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En el plan no se encuentra todavía puesto ese lavabo, entonces se necesita tener otro lavabo.

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Other questions.

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A ver, con otra pregunta.

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But then when you do the manicuring, usually there's, you know, they ask you to wash your hands after they get done doing whatever they're doing to get your hands prepared for being painted.

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So is she going to have a sink for that too?

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si es lo mismo del lavabo porque yo sé que por ejemplo cuando uno va a hacerse las uñas de las

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manos a uno se les pide después del manicure que no se lave las manos antes de que las pinten

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exactamente entonces va a tener ese tipo de lavabo también porque yo sé que para los pedicures con

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la silla que tiene su tina integrada eso es más que suficiente eso es una cosa pero para las manos

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para lavar las manos antes de pintarlas va a tener un lavabo instalado para eso también

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ese es el mismo que le estoy diciendo dar desde guanda

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i was talking about all right questions questions from our attorney not at this time mr chair

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questions or comments from the virtual audience or the current audience here yes sir we have a hand

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up from slow folks they're being promoted the panel good morning mr folks yeah good morning

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Mr. Folks?

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I'm sorry.

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Good morning.

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Can you hear me?

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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I can't start.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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I apologize.

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I entered this check.

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I entered everything by accident.

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I should not be testifying at all.

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I apologize.

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You're not going to testify here?

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no sir i apologize okay any other questions or comments from the virtual audience

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no hands at this time chair planning commission morning chair members of the board michael gall

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with the philadelphia city planning commission m-i-c-h-a-e-l-g-a-l-l you swear affirm to tell

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the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so affirm chair um please proceed with your

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testimony thank you the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa 5 residential

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single-family attached zoning at this location. The property has a documented history of legal

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office use as a doctor's office, dating to at least 1952. This end-of-row building is already

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physically configured for similar uses, like many similar properties on this part of the city,

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and along Levick Street, which operates as a de facto arterial for bridge access and has a number

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of similar commercial activities fronting it. Therefore, the City Planning Commission recommends

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the board grant the requested variance for personal services use mi2025-006-998-6354

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revere street i vote yes johns my vote is yes cheryl gaston my vote is yes tenetta graham my

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vote is yes i am mcadams my vote is yes hi i win my vote is yes thank you interpreter thank you

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counselor thank you you all have a good day all right you too

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number six mi 2025 002 853636 kerper street

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joan conley is the current owner

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this application is for use as a two-story family household living whereas

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the proposed use two-story household living is prohibited in the rsa3 zoning district

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good morning hi could you please your joan could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer. And just pulled a little closer to you too, if you don't mind.

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And just hold a little closer to you, too, if you don't mind. Yep. Joan Connelly, C-O-N-N-O-L-L-Y. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do, sir. Our vice chair has a few questions.

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Good morning. How are you? Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing? I have. And your refusal is

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for

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two-family household living

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that's prohibited in an RSA 3

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zoning district. Do you

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attest to that refusal

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and simply to its accuracy?

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Yes.

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Alright. You are getting some

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assistance, right? Yes. So we can begin

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with your case.

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Should I just address?

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Okay. Yeah, why don't you start? Well, first

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tell us what you're doing.

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Well, the property is now zoned as single family, and I'd like to have it changed back to its original use as a duplex.

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Okay. Is it currently set up as a duplex?

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Yes, for electric, water, gas.

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Sure. Why don't you start your test?

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Okay. This property was built as a duplex with separate entrances and separate utilities, two electric meters, two gas meters, two breaker boxes,

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and there are two hot water heaters and separate hookups in the basement for laundry.

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My grandmother, Alvira Kramer, was the original owner.

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She purchased it July 1959.

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She always lived on the first floor and rented the second floor.

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In 1998, my parents, Art and Peggy Kramer,

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purchased the property from my grandmother and moved into the second floor

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where they cared for my grandmother until she died in 2001.

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Since 2001, the property has been occupied only by family.

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In 2012, the property was changed from multifamily to single-family use, with a use permit issued on December 14, 2012.

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Currently, I live on the first floor, and the second floor is used for family occasionally.

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My father passed away August 26 last year.

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i am now the owner of 636 purple street and made settlement on april 16th of 2026 i am asking to

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change the property back to its original use as a duplex why don't you show us some photos

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i believe the interior too yep they'll have it yeah they'll do it for you okay okay

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okay that's going upstairs private access to the second floor right

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first floor bathroom okay

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uh the second floor kitchen okay

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second floor bathroom okay

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tell us about the rco

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no it it's her property right right okay tell us about i did go to the rco meeting my sister did

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okay could you thank you could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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donna kramer d-o-n-n-a last name kramer k-r-a-m-b-r do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

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told truth nothing but the truth i do please proceed uh so i went to the rco meeting um met

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with them made my presentation and here's the letter um right that they approved they don't

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have a problem with it all right all right okay questions from the board

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questions or comments from our attorney not at this time mr chair actually sorry no one um

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One thing I wanted to mention, so the property now is zoned RSA 3, which requires parking, and it looked like in the photos, there's parking to the side.

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Yes, there's all street parking for 4 cars. Okay. It just wasn't mentioned on the refusal. I just wanted to note it for the record because it is a requirement. Thank you.

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Questions or comments from the virtual audience to the current audience here?

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No hands at this time, chair.

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Planning Commission.

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morning michael gall with the philadelphia city planning commission the comprehensive plan

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recommends no change to the rsa3 residential single family attached zoning at this location

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this property appears to have a history as a two dwelling unit building despite the issuance of

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permit in 2012 for single family use therefore the philadelphia city planning commission recommends

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the board grant the proposed use variance for two dwelling units thank you mi 2025 002 853 636

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Kerper Street, I vote yes.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

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tennetta graham my vote is yes ryan mcadams my vote is yes my vote is yes thank you thank you okay

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Tynetta Graham, my vote is yes.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes.

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Taya Wayne, my vote is yes.

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number nine mi 2025 006 771 1121 walkin street this application is for the erection of a

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a vertical addition to an existing attached building and includes roof deck and roof deck

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access whereas the maximum occurred area for the RSA 5 zoning district is 75 percent

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and 80 percent 84 percent is uh processed when when the maximum rear yard is nine feet and six

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feet is proposed and where the where the stories above the second floor of the attached house

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shall be set back

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an additional eight feet

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and this is zero.

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Could the

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Paul

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Giselle

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Craig

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Craig

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Craig

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Yes, hi.

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Sir, could you please state your name

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and spell it for the stenographer?

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Yeah, my name is Paul

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Crager.

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That's P-A-U-L

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Last name is Crager

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C-R-A-G-E-R

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Do you swear or affirm

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to tell the truth

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told truth nothing about the truth i do east passion was unanimous support and there's a

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letter of non-opposition from council member squilla uh our vice chair has just a few questions for

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you sir good morning have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of

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this hearing yes and and the chair just wait read your uh refusal um do you uh wait further

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Read another refusal and stipulate to us accuracy. Yes. Okay. Well, we have amended slightly. Some of the things that were refused.

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Okay, there. Yeah. All right. So you can show your screen and see what the keys.

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Okay, just a moment.

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Hey, okay. You should be able to see that. Correct.

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not up yet not up yet oh i see here it comes again sorry yeah i see it's coming up oh got it

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okay uh yeah good morning everyone uh as i said my name is paul crager my wife danielle who's the

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co-owner of this property is also on the call uh we've lived here at 1121 watkins street since 2013

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we're seeking a variance for a third story addition to our home uh thanks for your time

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Let's move on here. So you can see the existing photos of the home. This is us on the top

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left. Behind us, you can see this is the view directly from our backyard, 1120 Morris Street,

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which is four stories at the rear, three in the front with a mansard roof.

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This is the back of our property. Center is us. Left and right side, you can see

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there's uh bump outs on the back of those homes uh which is what we're looking to do

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we only see one picture that's the first picture

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it's okay i'm sorry i missed what you said there would you repeat that

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no we we we should it's it's it's it's a little issue on our part but we're okay okay okay good

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Okay, sounds good. Okay. Here are our refusals. Just noting here that we previously requested a larger bump out than we're currently requesting. It's been reduced from three feet to two feet.

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you can see that the difference highlighted here so the occupied back area would have been six

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foot six now it's going to be seven foot six from 84 occupied to 82 occupied no changes to

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the ground floor this is only on the upper floor all right here you can see highlighted the the

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changes from the original submission and the plans, this clouded area down here highlights

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where we've modified the plans.

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Okay, the site plan here, you can see our house in the middle of Watkins Street, behind

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on Morris Street there's two other houses that are four floors, three floors, these

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on 12th Street are three floors, also three floors on Watkins Street here and here, and

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and a few more around the neighborhood.

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and a few more around the neighborhood.

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The floor plan, you can see the two existing floors on the right-hand side.

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On here, the third floor plan, you can see that it goes all the way to the front.

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It's planning to add a primary bedroom and then another smaller bedroom in the back.

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All the way to the left is the roof deck plan.

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There's a five-foot setback from the front property line.

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Pilot house is here. That's also setback.

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Next diagram shows elevations.

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This, again, is our house with the proposed changes.

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We're proposing a standing seam metal on a mansion roof

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with an open steel railing along the front wall of the roof deck.

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In the rear, we'll use the same vinyl siding to match the existing two floors below.

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You can also see an outline of 1120 Morris Street, 1114 Morris Street behind us, again

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four floors and three floors.

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This rendering shows what the project would look like completed.

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This is the same thing just highlighting just our house here in the middle and existing

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houses around the neighborhood that are already three floors, 19 of 20 row homes in the area

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area that are three floors or above have a flush façade.

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There's the rear yard again, showing the neighbor's overhangs.

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We are planning to build out to the same point that the neighbors immediately to our left

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and right have built out to.

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this is a rendering of sight lines you can see that sight lines from the street level you can't

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see the pilot house same thing from the second story because we're on the north side of the

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street there's going to be no daylight changes to Watkins Street there would be daylight changes to

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to the rear of the house that will basically just affect our backyard and our neighbor

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at 1120.

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These are more proposed photo renderings from the street level.

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This is, we presented to the RCO in February.

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We had unanimous support from both the RCO and community members.

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We've also been in close contact with our neighbors on the block and everyone's in support.

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And that is all we had prepared for the presentations.

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Yeah, thank you for your time.

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Let us know if you have any questions.

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I noticed what you did with the RCO, but how about the neighbors on either side?

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How are they?

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Yeah, correct.

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So, the neighbor to our right side are the owners we've spoken with and they're in support.

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Right now, they're renting their house to a renter who, you know, has asked some questions,

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has not opposed anything. The neighbors to the other side are in support.

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Okay. Thank you. Questions from the Board?

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Not a question, but a comment.

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Yours would be the first third-story addition on your block, correct?

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uh no there's another third story edition uh forgive me i can go back to uh you can see it

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here it's actually being built um in this image this this one is third story also mid block

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the end of the block is also third story here and here this is on your side of the street

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is this the first third story on our side that's correct it will be the first yeah

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Out of how many houses it looks like? I mean, there's nothing.

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Uh, I'd have to count, but you know, somewhere around a dozen.

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Okay. And then, uh, you said there was something on the other side being built.

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Uh, yeah, so this is completed now at the time that this overhead photo was taken. Yes, this,

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this is a completed, uh, third story on, on Watkins Street, just across the street.

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okay thank you questions yeah i guess it's a question because the other house on watkin street

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has a rear setback so it's actually there there's nothing above the second floor at the front of

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your property i do appreciate that you all attempted to do a mansard roof for that third

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floor and then you set back the fourth floor but you would still be the first third story that's

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visit like that's at facade line on that street and um i guess i'm wondering a little bit more

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I'm wondering a little bit more as like, what's the justification I need for the.

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is like what's the the justification i need

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Expansion yeah, yeah, I mean, the answer is basically the way the layout of our house works without a setback the front bedroom due to the location of our stairs and also this. Let's see if I can find it.

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uh essentially cut out uh where the yeah here so you can see in the existing second story

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um there this area right here does not fully cover the first floor of the house

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um so basically uh adding a third story with a setback due to the stairs and that cut out

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means the remaining area for a primary bedroom is pretty small so the variance

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required to build all the way to the front of the property line makes the

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third-floor primary bedroom viable okay and then is it planned that you all are

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gonna live here continue to live here as yourself yeah absolutely yeah as I said

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we've been here since since 2013 plan to continue uh for the foreseeable future okay so there so

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there's no change to the second floor that's correct so so you'll have this sort of overhang

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over the breezeway in the back with this third story you didn't show up i don't think i saw

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rear elevation for the new rear elevation I know you showed the front but you didn't show what

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happens I didn't see what happened yeah you can see that here a bit yeah okay so on the left here

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that's the wait a minute let's get it here so on the left right is the bottom left is the rear

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correct yes and so you've got this strange sort of overhang of that third floor which is

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which is a little odd um and then on the front and go get back to the front rendering that you did

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uh let's see were you looking for the rendering that you did oh the i just want to see it the

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rendering in context with the rest of the block with the rest of the houses next to it

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No, the front, not the rear, this is the front that I'm showing the front. Okay. Right. That's what I want to see.

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Yeah, okay. So with the man start. Okay.

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All right, that was it.

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Thanks. Smart attorney. Not at this time, Mr. chair questions or comments from the virtual audience.

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no hands at this time. Planning Commission. Michael Gall with the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSA 5 residential single family attached zoning at this location. The building's existing condition is that of increased occupied area with a small rear yard and that condition dates to the neighborhood's construction. The block is consistently residential in nature exclusively two and three story attached homes with narrow right of way and neighboring residential properties close by in the rear and

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across the street potentially impacting neighboring properties rights to light and air therefore the

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city planning commission recommends that the board grant the requested variances for maximum

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occupied area and rear yard depth but recommends that the board deny the requested variance for

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upper floor setback okay mi2025 006 771 1121 watkin street i vote yes with proviso revised plan

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and one page stamped by ZBA on May 6, 2026.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

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My name McAdams, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Diane Wynn, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Thank you.

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All right, here we go with M.

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now we're going to do both together okay so MI 2020 MI 2025 002 821 22 26 West Tioga

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and mi 2025 002 824 2224 west iowa street mr knockamson could you please state your name

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Mr. Nockamson, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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and spell for the stenographer alan knockamson

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Alan Nockamson, A-L-A-N, last name Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Mr. Nockamson, could you identify your client and relationship to the property?

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Yeah, my client is, or client for both properties are Wise Holding Group LLC,

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and in the virtual audience is Brian Wise, as well as Alex Lipkin, the members of the group.

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I also have Matt Master Pasqua of Mass Architecture Studio who's going to go with me along with the drawings.

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We have a letter of support from Allegheny West and also a letter from the Philadelphia Historical Commission.

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Our vice chair has a few questions.

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Thank you.

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Good morning.

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Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes, we have.

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And do you waive the read and other refusals and stipulate to their accuracy?

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I actually object to two of the refusals. The height refusal, I don't believe is correct. It's saying that we're proposing to have 42 feet and three and three quarters inches of height. That's the existing building structure. The new portion of the building structure is 36 feet, 11 inches, which would fall within the code requirements. And then the second refusal that we have an objection to is the amount of parking spots that are required.

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This is an RSA 3 property, so it's a one-to-one ratio, except we're a historic property where within the building office.

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Look at our accounts.

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You're staring at Hillary the whole time.

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Now, what are you trying to do?

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I'm just telling you something.

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So we have six units within the existing building structure, but it's a historic property, so we're exempt under 14-801-2F.

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And then for the new portion of the building structure, there are six units, but because it's an extension of the historic use, it's a 50% ratio.

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And so six units, 50% is three parking spaces. So we do meet for both properties that requirement as well. So, let me share my screen.

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so this is one of these projects that you know i present a lot and but you know this is one of

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these projects that you know you'll you'll remember over the course of your career i really do believe

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so this is a historic property it's in really bad shape and my client has spent hundreds of

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thousands of dollars to keep this property up the city has wanted to demolish this property time and

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time again. And they've probably, I think they've spent $700,000 just to keep this property up.

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To completely rehabilitate this property is going to take a couple million dollars. This property

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has been profiled in multiple publications in the Inquirer and such, and it has a really cool

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and interesting history, and we're trying to rehabilitate it and keep a part of that history

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in in this neighborhood and i even we even got a letter from swan poodle in support of this project

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like literally just came across my screen so um you know that was i was pleasantly surprised

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about the you know our community meeting how you know how people really knew about this property

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and its history and um and our attempt to keep it alive and it's you know you know you know to

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Look at that. It's beautiful. We went through the Historic Commission. I have Matt, Master Pascoe. Why don't we just have him join as a panelist and swear him in? Because he'll tell the history of it.

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Sure. Well, we'll get him on as soon as you're. Yeah. But, you know, we have 12 exhibits here. And like I said, Brian and Alex are on and Brian will tell you that he's from the Tioga area. This is an affordable housing project because that's all he does. And, and that, you know, he's really proud of this growing up in this area as well.

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So the notice of refusals, there's two properties. Each are going to propose to have 12 dwelling units in there. There's a history, a long history of significant multifamily use. I think this is an 18 unit boarding house at one point that allowed for 50 people in one of the properties. There's significant multifamily use nearby, and we're leveraging the fact that we're street to street to provide the parking as necessary.

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Now, we do have one refusal in terms of parking that we can't comply with. As you see on your screen, we're required to provide one handicapped parking space. If we did that, it would be too big for that lot where we would have less parking spaces and we couldn't comply with the three parking space requirement.

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requirement um so we talked to the community about that they rather have more parking spaces

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than have a handicapped parking space there uh and the only other refusal

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the only other refusal um well i would also argue that the you know the refusal regarding surface

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parking spaces are prohibited in the required front yards we don't have any parking there

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if you consider tioga the the front of the property our parking is in the rear uh uh the

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rear uh public uh street uh not the front parking street and then the really the one refusal we have

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is the multi-family use which is again not out of character for the for the history of these

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properties nearby and such and you know really the only and again this is a rather large lot

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the lot size for each of them is 6750 square feet not that we are on one but if we were

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that would allow 15 units as of right and the only way to make this project really work and and keep

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historic structures in here is to have these amount of units also allows for the affordability

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aspect of this project as well so we have a letter of support um not too descriptive other than you

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know this is the the cockling armstrong house and matt um you know will definitely describe what

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that is and the history behind it um but you know the nearby neighbor in the rear on the secondary

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street like love this project they're like oh my god thank you so much because you'll see pictures

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of the property it's in really bad shape obviously we fenced it in we've stabilized it um but they

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they want you know it finished and so do we and then again we went through the historic commission

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we have their you know their you know their review uh process and and their you know approval to move

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forward if the board feels so inclined to grant these variances and then the property history

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well when we then you know kind of bring matt on he can kind of go sure why don't you bring him on

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what's his name matt master pasqua sure hello matthew master pasqua hi i mean okay you could

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just spell it please yeah m-a-t-t-h-e-w master pasqua m-a-s-t-e-r-p-a-s-q-u-a you swear we're

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referring to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do counsel all right matthew uh

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why don't you tell the board a little bit about the history of this property and its historic

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significance yeah thank you alan um so yeah this is known as the conkling armstrong house it was

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built in the late 19th century by conkling and armstrong who were manufacturers of terracotta

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facade materials their main factory was on wissahickon it produced a lot of terracotta

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pieces for the city as well as the whole eastern seaboard and into the midwest and they were a

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large manufacturer of a truly american piece of architectural history they built these houses as

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their own residences and then also sort of a showcase of some of their products and their

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capabilities at their factory so all these ornate window details and banding and cornice lines and

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all of that were manufactured by their company for their houses to sort of show their potential

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clients what they were capable of. And yeah, I mean, they lived here for a while, and then it

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went through a different, you know, round of ownership, like Alan said, multifamily use, etc.

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Until finally, it was abandoned for a long time, and our clients picked it up and are trying to

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restore it. For the rear addition, we decided that trying to match all of these ornate features of

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the front building is not a tenable solution. So we tried to, you know, take context from the rear

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street, Estelle Street, as well as some of the more modest neighboring buildings to, you know,

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inspire our new design. So in this presentation, you'll see a handful of other projects we took

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photos of um that are of the same period of the conkling armchair house but are not as ornate

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so it's a little more feasible for us to construct yeah so matthew i actually have like uh let's

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let's go through the uh site plan as well as the side elevations uh so first i want to point the

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board's direction uh to the rear parking as you can see uh we use a pre-existing curb cut of 24

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inches and we have three parking spaces on each property and to allow for proper traffic flow we

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have an easement that's been created between the two properties we also have trash in the back

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um but why don't you i i objected to the refusal as to the heights in the rear um just to confirm

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uh this is the the actual height to to the roof line right matthew 36 feet 11 inches

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that's correct all right is there anything else on this drawing that we can point the board's direction to

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Is there anything else on this drawing that we can point the board's direction to?

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So as you can see on the left side, that sort of diagonal hatch is our addition, and then the solid gray hatch is the existing building.

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So you can see there is sort of a mezzanine or a short fourth floor attic space on the right side, and that is where that non-compliant height comes from.

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and we are more or less matching the height of the third story on the rear portion of the existing

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building for our new portion. And we have compliance with the side yard setbacks of

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eight feet for both buildings. That's correct. Each of these houses are being developed as

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independent homes or, you know, residences. So we kept an eight foot side yard in order to

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provide tenant access to the building where we have the entrance to the building actually coming

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in off of the side yard and this is for a few reasons one it works better for the stair layout

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but then it also puts living space on the first floor along a stow street across the parking lot

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so instead of having the main sort of non-inhabited residential entrance on the first floor front we

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decided to put living rooms on the front instead yeah and then we have two entrances one on either

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side for the rear portion for the addition and then we are maintaining the two front entrances

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off of tioga for the entrance for the tenants that live on the existing building side yeah and

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by continuing with the side yard everyone has access from front to back of the property including

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the trash areas right correct yeah and then to go back to you know trash maintenance and storage

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while we go into the actual floor plans there are ventilated trash areas within those units

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themselves yes all right uh let's see is there anything different on this well this is the same

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one uh anything on this drawing that would be of relevance to the board uh we are just showing uh

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where the building would be visible from this is more for the historic commission but these three

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photographs are from tioga 23rd street and astao street showing where these the the addition would

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be visible from yeah and you did make the presentation uh by way of the historic

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commission approval process what were their thoughts about the project correct yeah they

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were in full support um they saw the significance of the existing structure and the dilapidated

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nature of it and are supportive of any effort to try to maintain it restore it all right well let's

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just go through the floor plans here so you were mentioning the front of these properties um i i

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would almost equate it to almost like two buildings in one right yeah absolutely almost four buildings

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and two if you think of it that way because we do have the property line down the center there is a

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shared party wall running you know front or top to bottom of the page here so um just to orient

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everybody. Tioga Street would be on the bottom of the page. Stow Street on the top of the page.

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The first plan on the left is the basement plan. The only basement that we have is the existing

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portion. There's no basement. There's only a crawl space on the addition. So the front entrances would

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be the second plan in from the left. And they are sort of highlighted or not in white. So as Alan is

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scrolling over them. You can see we have one on the left side, one on the right side,

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and they both enter into a shared hallway and then to a staircase.

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Yeah. There are. Go ahead. Sorry. I was going to say, so you have unit number 101 on both

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in the front, unit 102 a little further in the existing building structure, right?

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Correct. Yes. So those are the two on the first floor that are accessed from Tioga.

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and then from the rear we have 103 and 104 and they are accessed off of a stow street

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and you can see again those white hallways and staircases in the center of the building

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those are all shared go all the way up to the third floor and the rear six units two four six

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eight units sorry access up there so yeah we broke down the units by color so you can kind

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orient yourselves and see you know where one unit starts and one unit stops and then the white also

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shows you where those units are accessed from um the only again the only space we have in the

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basement is in the existing building where there is a current basement and you know 101 and 102

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on either side have access to that basement yeah and for each building uh structure there's 12 units

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eight one bedrooms and four two bedrooms that's correct uh yes i believe so all right and then

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you know the only other floor that has a bi-level or not bi-level but more of a loft

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The only other floor that has a bi-level or not bi-level, but more of a loft is the third floor in the front.

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Correct. Yes. So the third floor front, so 301 on either side, there is that fourth floor attic space.

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We were trying to figure out how to best utilize that.

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And according to some building code regulations, we were limited on how big of a space we could put up there without having to add additional staircases.

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So we are using this as a mezzanine. So I'm imagining more of an office use on that space, but it would be come down to the tenant.

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But that would be open to below. So there's sort of a double height or one and a half height space in those 301 units.

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And then there's no roof deck access structures as part of this project, right?

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Correct. Yeah, the stairs don't even go up to the roof deck. The maintenance access would be via ladder.

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You can see we placed six condensing units on either side right above the staircase as to not disturb the people below.

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And it'd make it easier for the board to see the drawings, too.

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We kind of gave like four examples of different types of units out there in the buildings.

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Right. So we're not exhaustive with our unit plans.

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We just wanted to show sort of a snapshot of what we were offering in the market of rental apartments in the area.

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So you can see we have a lot of one bedrooms, the like heavy gray walls.

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Those are existing walls and kind of orient which ones are new, which ones are existing that way.

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So the first two on the left here, those are within the existing building.

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So we were kind of having to work with the existing window layouts and such like that in order to provide the amenities and what everybody expects out of an apartment these days on the right side.

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these are two sorry god no i was gonna say i was gonna highlight the fact that you try to leverage

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you know the the fact that you have side yards so you have a lot of light and air in the units

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with a lot of windows in each of the rooms of course yeah yeah we did what we could to utilize

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those windows as best as possible yeah you know um dealing with the fact in the older building you

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have you know you have to deal with the historic commission of course right right so we do have um

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You know, when we go for final approval with the Historic Commission right now, we just have the in-concept approval, but we will, you know, dimension out and have details for all of these windows to be replaced in the existing structure.

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On the two on the right side, those are new units.

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So these are mostly within the new portion of the building.

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You can see the 1-3R, this actually covers part of the rear of the existing building and then the back portion of the new addition.

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So it's a pretty sizable one bedroom unit, you know, dining room, living room, walk in closet, separate laundry room, all that.

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And then next to that, we have the yellow unit. That is an example of our two bedroom unit.

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It's two bed, two bath. Again, a laundry room, nice kitchen, an area for a dining room, as well as a pretty significant living room as well.

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So this is, again, sort of just a snapshot of the units that we are offering in the building.

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all right is there anything else you want to share before I go through the rest of my presentation

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from an architect uh no now it's time like great all right well let's just go back to give you a

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little bit more context in terms of just the neighborhood in general and the condition of

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the property so let me just go backwards a little bit all right here are the photos

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so this is the current condition of the property as you can see it's been fenced up the property's

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been stabilized i'll have brian wise about my testimony as his own but i'll have him specify

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how much how much money they have spent just to keep this property afloat because the city has

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tried to demo it and they've spent a lot of money just to hopefully get this approval

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this is the property in 2008 a little better before you know my clients bought it but still

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not functional and then this is the rear of the property from s dog street again you can see here

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i should have put another photo but if you go on google street view you'll see like in the past

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there were garages back here um which leveraged the the um the curb cut

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and then this is our uh proof of posting for both properties

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a little rough there uh you know tayoga street to the right of the property

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uh to the left of the properties and then from s dog right as well as left

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alan what's on either side um i can you mean in terms of i mean are the existing properties

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people yeah they're existing properties again the person on s dog to the left of us uh was at the

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community meeting and they were very complimentary of of this project i see you know yeah there's not

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much going on s dog that's the other thing they're like please activate that street for us because

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that street for us because you know when you have like not much going on bad things sometimes

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you know when you have like not much going on bad things sometimes

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happen right let me uh go through the rest of this go through that

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let's see oh this is and again i didn't go with this math but this is basically the house

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and and the significant amount of work they're gonna have to do it's like shaded where they're

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to have to restore it um and again that goes to you know the price of almost two

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months probably over two million dollars to restore this property

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and then this is just for a proof of mailing for the community meeting that took place

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for both properties our applications for appeal for both properties

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the the deeds to both properties owned by wise holding group LLC

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and then our certificate of tax clearances uh I will ask that Mr. Wise uh virtually raise his hand

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By Mr. Wise, please.

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Yes. Good morning.

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Mr. Wise, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Brian Wise, B-R-I-A-N-W-I-S-E.

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All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes, I do.

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counsel uh yes brian you heard everything i had to state today about your zoning matter

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yes i did is it true and correct yes it is do you adopt this your own testimony

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yes i do specifically um i mentioned the figure i want to be accurate um i stated that you spend

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around seven hundred thousand dollars just to stabilize this property through today's hearing

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is that correct uh that's still correct you a little lower than that i'm looking here at

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in our spreadsheet. So we bought the property. The 19th of this month will come up on our fifth

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year owning the property. So since then, since purchasing the property, obviously interest

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payments, then doing the make safe and then maintain the property with landscaping, snow

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removal, fencing, scaffolding. I mean, we're at today 928,000 just to maintain the property.

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And this is even before any approvals or any permitting to do the construction work and obviously the historic work that's going to be needed for the facade.

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How much would that work entail, like going forward to restore the property to meet historic commission guidelines?

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I mean, in my mind, I would like it to be 100 grand, but it's probably going to be more, like you said, a couple of million dollars to do it.

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so it's a very ambitious project for us um as we usually do you know affordable housing new

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construction regular rehabilitation but obviously this is um something different something special

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um so we look forward to you know maintaining and keeping this property alive yeah and you grew up

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in the tayoga area right yes all right and and your your your business is affordable housing

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Yes. 90% of it, I'll say, is affordable housing. I'll be lying if I said 100%, but it's definitely 90%. That's what we do.

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Can you tell the board some of the programs that you're a part of or that your property is a part of?

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Yeah. So obviously, we work with PHA. We also work with a program called Babachi. And we just started back with a program for Youth Valley, which actually helps youth occupants when they're coming back.

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a lot of them come from like foster care and that program helps them you know re-enter into society

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by helping them go through school college and also helping them get a job and then living you

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know on their own to help them re-acclimate and to be able to live in society and learn how to do

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that from an early age so we just got back with doing that program all right well thank you for

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your time all right questions are you welcome thank you yeah i have a question um just could

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you pull up the site plan again alan i'm just trying to understand like the addition is now

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going to be the entire extent of the to the property line on the style no no no there is

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some rear yard oh yeah so i'm sorry this is a 20 uh foot rear yard setback that's where the parking

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is okay that's where the parking is so is there any like outdoor space for these tenants no

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probably not there is no landscaping in the in the rear but there is no outside parking

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And Brian, you can speak to this, because I was at the community meeting, and you know your neighborhood better. It's a tough neighborhood, right?

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and brian you can speak to this because i was at the community meeting and you know your neighborhood

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Sure.

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There is outside space in the front. We do have a porch area, and there is space in the back for two benches that people can sit outside.

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so the porch because originally i feel like in the presentation it was explained that only the

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what is it the don't quote me but i want to say like the 9 to 15 units that are in the front half

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of the building are going to access through that porch so for the the inhabitants that are going to

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access the building through a stow street like it's going to be unlikely that they're going to

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spend a ton of time on this porch so i'm just trying to get a sense of like this is a this

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is dense like we're in the middle of a block 24 households could be up to 75 people and we've got

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no outdoor space this is not the most transit accessible area there's only one bus line here

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to get people to center city and we've only got three parking spaces well so not out of character

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You know, 2230 West Tioga Street has 10 units, and it's 12 units in total that we're seeking.

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Well, for each property, so it's 24 total.

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Yeah, but, yeah, you mentioned something about 15.

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I just wanted to make sure.

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I said there's 15 properties, like, there's 15 units that would access the building through the front porch.

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No, it's six and six.

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Six and, okay.

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Yeah, it's literally five and a half.

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But, like, I was saying between nine and 15.

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I was just, the numbers weren't in front of me.

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No, no, no. I just want to make sure of that because that's when I heard six and nine, like I was thinking you were thinking was 15. It's six and six. There is outdoor space in the front.

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Sentiment still stands. We've got 12 units. Half the units are accessing the building through the front porch. Half are going to be coming through that rear access point on Estelle Street. So you've really only got half of the building that's going to really be on that porch.

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We also have a narrow there is space there if you pull up the other plane

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There is space in the back and then as far as the transportation there's actually I think three bus lines

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Which the the depot was right around the corner for 30 the 33 I think

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Um for when I remember I used to catch the bus the 33 runs in Center City and also I think it's the

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37 minutes to get from there to Center City.

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So I think to assume that you're gonna have

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almost 70 people that are only gonna use in service

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that one bus line seems unlikely.

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So I just wanna know like what is the plan,

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especially if we're talking about a population

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that is sort of reliant on public transportation

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and if we're talking about low income individuals

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who are in need of affordable housing,

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what what is the i guess the plan for the for the like their livelihood in this building i can

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understand the plan layout i'm thinking more so as like a long-term ecosystem for this property

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that is fair as far as the transportation um it's it's i mean obviously for us it's hard to control

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that and with the retrospect of agreeing with you um partially of what you're saying and then

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also partially that everyone that's there may not need to go to center city every day you know

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everybody you know they work in different areas they're going to different areas so again i can

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agree with you um you know partially which what you're saying but it's nothing that we as individuals

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can control as far as the transportation aspect outside of someone having their own vehicle

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yeah and also brian i i think it was brought up at the community meaning

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parking is not an issue i mean i know we're creating a lot of density here but

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175 people are here that's a different story it's an eight it's it's it's 16

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uh one bedrooms and eight two bedrooms um so it's you know we we feel that you're not going to have

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as many people in in the one bedrooms they they're definitely more compact okay and and is the

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management office on site or i think management office is brian right no no it's not me myself

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but we do have a management um section of our business that manages all our properties directly

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um as far as maintenance and also tenant issues so we do have uh management and we also have a

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leasing um agent that we use to lease our properties like again for those various programs

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and i also forgot to mention we do deal with the uh the va as well so that's off-site though correct

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Yes. Okay. And you said, well, what percentage of these units would be affordable?

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80% of those. We do 90% overall of our portfolio. We do 90% affordable.

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We do 90% overall of our portfolio, we do 90% affordable in programming.

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So in this particular project, it'll be about 80% if I have the math right, based on the conversion of our units.

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I'm sorry?

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Your plan is to do housing choice vouchers?

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Yeah, we do.

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Like I said, all of our programs are housing choice voucher, PHA, Babachi, and again, we do-

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PHA has multiple programs, which is why I'm clarifying because housing choice vouchers is a

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a very specific program where the tenant has to find you versus, say, like a project-based

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voucher, which is more stable affordability.

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So your plan is-

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Yeah, so if you want to just broad stroke it, you can just basically, we'll say, a PHA

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over all their programs that they have within their umbrella.

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Because like you said, all the tenants have different income programs under the PHA program.

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so the questions so yeah do have a couple questions so you have units in the basement

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of the main building that's going to be rehab what's the depth of the basement below grade

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is one it's six and a half feet below grade two and a half feet above grade so that's

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fairly low and how many units are below grade just two the two front ones two units are

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below green correct let me let me just make sure hold on i don't think you're correct when you

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when you're talking about the height what is the height of the of this of the basement

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the depth of the basement below the adjacent grade so you're at the grade what's the what's

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not the grade at the pavement the grade because the the area is raised or what's yeah yeah right

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yeah alan is correct at six and a half feet below grade and then two and a half feet above

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So we're and then there are two basement units or two units with basement access on either side.

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So a total of four. So a total of four basement units.

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How many parking spaces total? Six.

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Total three on each property. OK, and there are a total of 24 units, correct?

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That's correct. Can you go to the site plan for a minute?

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One of the things that I wanted to want to see is the pedestrian access from that backstreet.

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What's the name of the backstreet? Stahl Street. Stahl Street.

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The addition sits fairly far back from the street, and the block is pretty intact with pretty decent houses that have porches and the like, and there's no, from what I can see here, in order to get to the entrance to the back portion of this addition,

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You have to go down the side way, go across the parking lot to the pavement, to the sort of the main pavement.

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So there's no sort of direct line from the pavement straight up the side to access that entrance to that addition.

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So that's. Feels like you're entering the back right of this building.

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um so when you look at the units that are directly across the street and on that street

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they all have these pretty sort of grand porches um and there's a sense of entry

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we don't have that here it's it feels like a i understand the expense and the uh sort of the

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restoration effort that's going to take place on the building on you know on the the front

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which is amazing. That's an amazing building. I know that block and that area very well and glad

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to see something being done. But I feel like you've neglected the street behind and with a

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little more effort in the design of that back portion, whether it's addition or whether it's

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a separate building altogether, because the only thing that really makes it an addition is you've

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got some of these units that sort of are part of the original building because you've added a

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bedroom or something that sort of connects to it. Other than that, it's a fairly distinct and

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separate building and could be literally front on the street behind it if you wanted to.

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But I think you've neglected the character of that front of that building, which is sad,

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considering the amount of effort that you're going to take to do the restoration of the building

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or the exterior of the building in the front so so that that is a big concern

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for me i will say that the historic commission looked at that you know and obviously i'm sure

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they addressed all those concerns as well and they did approve you know the design that we did put

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They did approve, you know, the design that we did put out there in terms of the rear building structure or the addition.

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out there.

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Yeah, I understand that.

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But I just want to. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

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No, I just say when you look at again, I'm just just made the comment.

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If you go to the rendering that you did for the rear and I don't want to take up too much more time.

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it literally looks it looks it looks it looks like you did a disservice to the to the property and the

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streetscape of that of that backstreet it just does and the fact that if i have to get if i if

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i live in this back portion of this building i have to go through a driveway right in a parking

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lot to get to a walkway that's on the side there's no sort of direct you know straight route into

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the building so I would like to make one response to that is if we were to bring

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that building to the property line on Estelle Street we would not be able to

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provide any parking and that was a driving factor of that design choice

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for that yeah yes I that I clearly understand however when you look at the

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elevation of that front it looks like a rear there's there's no sense of entry

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you've got this grand entry on one side street and then the back you've got this sort of

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it's the back of the house right it doesn't it doesn't give the same same respect to the to the

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to the street behind so i can say yeah i appreciate the feedback um you know of all the feedback we

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have gotten that is the first uh time we've heard that or the 50 of the unit that enters

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through that back door mike still i would i would have said it but i felt like i don't

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talked earlier but i will reinforce that sentiment so on the back uh mr johns you were saying that

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if like i guess the back if it um let me let me let me say this we're going on yeah much further

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than we are if you want to respond to this what you heard then we'll give a resumptive hearing

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if you don't want to respond then we'll take it to so tell me where you stand with this i mean

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honestly this is the first time we actually had pushback you know from well no i don't i don't

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want to call it pushback i want to call it no good different way of looking at publish this

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right so i mean the the thing is is that this is a very impactful project for this community i

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understand it i understand it would be a shame if this wasn't approved because again i'm not

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i'm saying do you want to respond to what you've heard i i don't know if we can change the okay

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all right like any of you tell me and i just want to and i just want to say for the record i don't

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personally look at it as pushback i just looked at it as you know just concerns that individuals

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had um on the panel you know in reference to look and you know servicing so all right but i'm not

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sure i'm not the architect i'm not sure if we can do anything as far as putting porches or anything

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in the back to service that any other questions questions from our attorney not at this time mr

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chair questions or comments from the virtual audience no hands at this time chair planning

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commission chair i'm sorry a hand just went up from a telephone number sure

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adrian yes adrian yes hello hi good morning could you please state your name is spelled

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for the stenographer yes adrian fernandez f-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z all right do you swear

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a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please proceed

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is it are we um talking about both addressed at the same time and also

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is it going to be a resumptive okay is it going to be a resumptive hearing no we're not

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okay um so swamped or approves of this project at both addresses um with two provisos that were

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sent in. And with consideration for what the board is saying, we also talked about increasing

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landscaping at the public meeting. There were two neighbors from Estoff Street who lived

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2221 and 2225, which are, I guess, within like 30 to 50 feet of the project. And as

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As far as affordable housing or Section 8 residents, we would just want them to have

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jobs because we have a lot of problems with Section 8 residents who are not occupied with

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with jobs and families all day with destroying our neighborhoods okay thank you very much for

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jobs and families all day with destroying our neighborhoods.

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taking time to close we appreciate it planning commission michael gall with the philadelphia

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city planning commission the planning commission recommends uh the contents of plan recommends no

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change in zoning to this uh location from rsa 5 and rsa 3 residential single family attached to rta

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1 residential 2 family. The subject property from Tioga to West Estaw Street. The proposal is to

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renovate the historical structure. There are properties on this street that are 5 to 7 units,

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but half the size of this property. The proposed unit count is slightly out of character with the

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surrounding lots. The proposed parking off the rear Estaw Street and the proposed rear yard depth

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is 28 feet less 18 feet for parking, where 20 is required for non-single-family use.

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the deviation here is de minimis the proposed occupied area and height variances are also

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de minimis therefore the city planning commission recommends the board grant the requested variances

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for parking in the required rear yard parking access multi-family occupied area height and

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parking space ratio but recommends a proviso of a maximum number of dwelling units at eight

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yes and um mr gall i'm sorry is that recommendation for both for both for both for both yes we're

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being we're entering that for 22 24 okay and so your recommendation is eight for each property

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instead of the 12 that's requested okay yes yeah so yes we're going to take this on the

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consideration next week we will vote next one yeah can I just respond to the Planning Commission

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sure so I do believe that there's a recent case that the Commonwealth courts made a ruling that

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when you're talking about hardship you look at historic designation and the effect it has

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on the property and the cost of that property um we we couldn't do it at eight like this is

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what we can do it as and it would be a shame that a historic property would have to come down

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because of that um and again it's not out of character you know above eight even because

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you know there was 2230 which has 10 units um i do believe that you know there's grounds for

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undue hardship on their circumstances okay thank you question for hillary is it possible to allow

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them to submit more information to outline that hardship before we like close the record um yes

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we well we can close the record except for additional information okay i will say like

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Throughout this presentation, it did not seem like the total budget was clear.

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Like, to justify the 12 units, I don't know that I heard that as a clear argument from anyone.

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And so, to allow you to give more information to justify how the historic costs,

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other than knowing that just historic things cost money, is necessary.

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Like, the 12 units for each is necessary.

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I will supplement the record in terms of what...

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But everything else is closed.

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All right, thank you.

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thank you thanks we're going to go to number two mi 20 25 000 391 34 49 8th street david

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loza is the attorney they're being promoted to panel thank you

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do

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do we see council yeah you hear me

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i can sure could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yeah my name is daniel louza d-a-n-i-e-l l-o-z and zebra a right do you swear or affirm to tell

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the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes could you identify your client relationship

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to the property uh my clients are um fa properties investment llc

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and the principals of the LLC, Jose Fabricio Mejia and Alfa K. Polanco.

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All right. Our Vice Chair has a few questions for you.

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Good morning. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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Can you hear me? Raise the volume. Hold on.

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Let me see if I can raise the volume. Hold on.

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Okay.

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Have you submitted your documents and exhibits?

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Yes, ma'am.

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Okay. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes, ma'am.

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Okay. Thank you. You can share your screen and proceed with your case.

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Okay. I need to invite Alberto Perez, which is the architect.

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Can we add him into the screen?

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um mr loza is he presenting i mean not presenting is he just showing the exhibits

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because he can't present okay all right thank you

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okay we have all your documents yes okay

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and you got last night we sent you the updated certificate of task clearance correct

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that was missing yes okay so this property 34

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um

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3449 A Street. We tried to make a case to get a two-family zoning.

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Currently, it's a one-family dwelling, and we tried to get two apartments, one on the

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first floor, one on the second floor.

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So the owner is installing a security alarm system and security cameras in the area.

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he's also adding exterior lighting to improve visibility and on the on the side for the trash

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we are building a specific area in the front of the property next to the window between

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the window and the entrance that's where the trash for the two apartments is gonna be

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so this is the entrance going to the second floor this is the access to the second floor the hallway

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and this is actually the unit inside

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the second floor has to exit in the rear from the windows so the people in case of fire they have an

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exit and the first floor unit has a door access to the rear in the back.

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And this is the work being done on the property.

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Here you have the blueprints

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that are made by the architect showing the first the first floor on the one side and the second

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floor on the other side then the first floor as you can see they have access exclusively

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access to the basement and access to the rear yard and the and the second floor has access

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from the front of the house to the second floor

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i think this is the last

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the last exhibit

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let me ask you the rest of the block are there multiple family households living on the rest of

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the block some are multi multi-family units and actually the 3314 h street was also a property

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was converted into two family dwellings this is 34 49 i'm talking about 33 14. um the permit was

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granted a cp 2025 003973 in the same layout than this one why why don't you bring your client on

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and adopt your testimony then we'll open up for questions okay let me i don't know how to

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well just your client's name right

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you want to add jose fabricio and alfa i know they are online

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You want to add Jose Fabricio and Alfa?

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I know they are online, but I don't know how to add them.

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Well, you don't have to do it.

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Just mention his name and then we'll call for him, okay?

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Okay, Jose, can you join us?

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So they would need to raise their hands.

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You said, what are the names, Jose?

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Jose Fabricio Mejia and Alfa K. Polanco.

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It's husband and wife.

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save the second name because i don't see the first name mejia i'm sorry alpha polanco okay

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alpha polanco is is in the virtual audience um she just needs to raise her hand okay let me see if i

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can text her alpha polanco can you please raise your virtual hand so that you can be promoted

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uh they're currently declining to be promoted

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hello can you hand me oh yeah yeah could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer um i'm out for polanco um a l f a p o l a c i mean n c o polanco

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right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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yes all right counsel yes would you could you ask her to adopt your testimony

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i'm sorry can you say that again well she should adopt your testimony right

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yes right could we do that yes can you adapt your testimony please

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sir she needs to adopt the remarks that you made as her testimony so you need to ask her

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if she can your testimony and then adopts it okay so the question is whether what i said is the

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truth and you say that this the truth yes all right all right questions from the board uh yes

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for the second floor unit what is the plan for the utilities and I speak more

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Spanish Spanish he speaks better Spanish than English yeah okay can I

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translate no no you can no you cannot did you speak with her about this question

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i mean yes they went over the the blueprints many many times yes

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okay well did you talk with her about the utilities um i'm assuming yes each each unit

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has their own closet and their own toilet and their own and their own utility utility gonna be

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separate from first floor and second floor it's gonna be two separate unit two separate utilities

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understood that i think my my question is more about the utility connections typically in a row

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house they are both in the basement but in this case only one of the units has access to the

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basement so my question would be one how will the second floor unit access utilities if there's any

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issue they need to address them okay let me can i ask them in spanish no we'd have to get an

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interpreter okay can we get an interpreter all right hillary we want to do a result if you're

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going to have to okay all right so we're going to do a resumptive hearing for this

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and it's going to be on um 7 29 2026 at 9 30 a.m okay at that time could you come back and be

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prepared to handle the questions okay and we'll have an interpreter we will have an interpreter

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for the application. Thank you so much.

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All right, thank you.

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All right, number

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number three.

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MI

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2025

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000685

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11920

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Waldemere Drive.

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Vern Anastasio is the attorney.

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he's being promoted to panelists here okay thank you he's he's right here um good morning again

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we didn't talk yet today did we we have not good morning good morning could you please state your

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name and spell for this is on the first yes good morning mr chair members of the board it's burn

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Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the board. It's Vern Anastasio, A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O, on behalf of Mr. Farouk El-Hadi.

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Anastasio, A-N-A.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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We don't, let me see here. Did we get the letter yet from Mill Creek or Millbrook?

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So, I'm sorry. So for this one, not since there was a meeting last week, correct?

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Correct.

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Okay, so yes, so we have not received anything since that meeting the RCO had previously sent a letter indicating they were opposed

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But that was that was prior that was last summer that they sent a letter

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So see the council persons and I'm gonna be asking that this the vote be held today

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Because I there is a video that I'd like to be able to submit for the board to watch in in their own session

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yeah but we'd have to open that up to other people right i mean yes any yeah exhibits would

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have to be on the record um we could we couldn't just look at it in an executive session um i could

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put we could put it on the record today okay what's the nature of the video it's just a

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neighbor interaction with my client on the first the first time he went to his home and introduced

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themselves to some of the families and you have that with you today electronically i would be

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able to forward that to you all right well you could also share it via the via zoom if possible

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i didn't believe we could do that you should be yeah if you have it on your computer we should be

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able to do it that way if the if the board would like to see it well yes okay we may not be able

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to do that right maybe at a resumption hearing then okay okay so why don't we get as much as

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we can on the record okay of course here good morning have you submitted your documents and

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exhibits five days in advance of this hearing i have and do you wait to read another refusal

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or stipulate to his accuracy i do okay thank you show your screen and proceed with the case

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i don't see a share option here

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i think i need to be promoted electronically first

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there it goes

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Okay, 11920, Waldemere Drive.

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We're here to legalize a three-family dwelling in an existing structure.

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This was the appeal that went in.

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my client purchased this property from a long time owner who took the garage

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and put in a kitchen and put up some walls and put up a bathroom

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my client i mean unlike many of my clients who come here and saying i thought i was buying a

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triplex when in fact i did not i bought a duplex my client knew even though the

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property presented itself as a triplex my client knew that it was only legally

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zoned as a duplex he did purchase it anyway with the mission of getting it

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approved getting it legalized he believed because the previous owner had

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done so and that previous owner had good relations with the community that there

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would be no con no issues whatsoever so i want to show you the the plan

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interior layout

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is this on a a whole group of duplexes there are there are many duplexes on the block yeah right

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thank you as you can see here this is the ground level this is where the garage

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and you have stairs that go up to the first floor from the front

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it's the second unit and then the top unit my client lives in one of the units already

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he lives on one of the i'm going to call second or third floor that's correct not the garage

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that's correct not not the former garage that's correct

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So he purchased it and this is the work that was done. He did, of course, do work on the property, nothing that would require any sort of permits.

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so he purchased it and this is the work that was done he did of course

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At the RCO meeting we heard about a list of violations on the property and there were some, some were unfounded, we appealed all of them and dealt with all of them.

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So the only outstanding appeals, I'm sorry, violation is the use, of course.

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That's where it sits.

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This is the letter that went out to everyone.

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and the proof of mailing. So it's a little unusual in that lots of times we have folks

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saying that they purchase what appears to be a triplex or almost, you know, a full triplex,

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but they, you know, and they believe that that's what they were buying. My client knew

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that it was legally zoned a duplex. He saw that the garage was outfitted with a bathroom. It

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still needed to be you know sort of worked on a little bit but was all framed out and decided to

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purchase it so that he could legalize it again he he did believe because the previous owner who had

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lived for generations on in this property no one else had a problem with him building out as much

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as he did on that basement that that would pretty much be you know okay uh what my client will

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testify and you know the evidence will show is that my client's name is Farouk El Hadi

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and the very first day he moved into his property he went and visited and introduced himself to his

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neighbors and after they asked him what his name was it was very clear that she said verbatim and

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you'll hear testimony today from my client I never thought I'd see the day of Farouk would live in

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this neighborhood let alone this block so from that moment on Mr. Farouk Elhadi had a feeling

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that things weren't going to be as smooth with this triplex as he had hoped

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and I have nothing further for now I'd like to call Mr. Elhadi to the stand if he could raise his

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virtual hand. They're promoted chair. Okay. Sir. Here he is. Hi. Can you guys hear me? Could you

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Yeah, could you turn on your video, please?

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Hi, sir.

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Could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?

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My name is Farouk El-Hadidi, F-A-R-O-U-K.

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All right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Counsel?

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Thank you.

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Farouk, did you hear my presentation to the board this morning?

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Yes.

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Is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

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Yes.

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do you adopt it as adopted as your own testimony yes okay and can you explain to the board uh your

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uh experience thus far uh upon moving into this property um moving in um and um after introducing

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myself to a lot of the neighbors and a lot of people that represent themselves as part of the

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community. Um, you know, many times I introduced myself with, you know, I told them my name is

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Farouk and verbatim, um, I've been told twice, you know, um, and most recently one of them was,

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one of them was saying, um, you know, she never expected to see somebody with that name

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in this kind of neighborhood. Um, and further on, uh, across the street from me when I introduced

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myself and you know we're talking and and i get asked i get asked that question a lot what's my

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relationship to the to the building and um two different occasions where the cops were called

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after me you know picking up some mails or being in the lot um that someone is trying to break in

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as of last week cops were called on my wife mom and five-year-old that were they were trying even

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though they were just checking on the on the building uh someone was breaking into the into

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the into the building which is not very true um another time when um you know i was in uniform

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going to to see something um somebody was walking the dog and they asked the same question what are

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Somebody was walking the dog and they asked the same question. What are you doing here? What is this appeal for? And I explained what's going on. And same kind of answer. And, you know, when I told them that I'm a pilot, I work for this company, here's what I do.

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doing here

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And it's very disrespectful and very, you know, names were called and comments were made.

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And that was it, you know, multiple times on many different occasions.

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You know, everybody wanted to make sure that I'm not welcomed in that block, in that street, in that neighborhood.

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at least four different times where I can call verbatim what they said and how they said it.

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And for the record, the Human Relations Commission is being notified of this as well.

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Still looking at it?

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They're going to be notified of this, yes.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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Thank you, Mr. Farouk.

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And you do have possession of the video that you'll be able to forward so that we can then have a resumptive hearing.

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Is that correct?

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Yes.

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Thank you.

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Um, hold on. Um, I guess, I guess the question would be, sir, your council said, but when you bought it, you knew that it was an improper building.

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What do you mean?

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Yeah, as I said in my presentation and you adopted as your own testimony that.

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although the property presented itself to you as a physical three-family dwelling you did

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understand that it was only approved for two is that correct yes and you took on that

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responsibility to legalize it is that correct yes sir and you purchased it from a very long-standing

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member of the community who did that build out on the on the bottom floor is that correct

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yes sir and all the people who have come up to you and uh told you you know either they are not

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supporting your appeal or they're not quite sure what someone like you is doing on the block they

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were all good relations with the prior owner is that correct yeah they knew him on a first name

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basis they they were really friendly with them as many of them are long term um um you know neighbors

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thank you yes all right questions from the board yes i well what i do want to say i'm sorry that

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you feel that uh i'm sorry that this happened to you but i do want to focus on the nature of the

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actual zoning request um so i think my first question is how many other multi-family properties

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are on the immediate block there's at least four four and are there any that are triplexes

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or are all the others only duplexes?

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I have not seen other triplexes.

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Okay.

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And then for the other,

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is this the first unit that will have access

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for one of the units through that,

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what was the former garage?

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There are other properties on that block

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whose garages have been converted to something.

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To something, okay.

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And then my second question is around

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just understanding,

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I know you said that there was a bathroom

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in the garage at purchase, but what led you to believe that this had been converted into a third

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unit? It was a kitchen as well. Kitchen as well. Okay. I have a question about the RCO meeting.

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Could you just explain what happened at the RCO meeting? It was very much in line of the

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conversations my client has had in the past. So they were opposition, a lot of opposition.

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Without question.

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Okay.

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Defending the person who actually built it out

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and saying that, well, he knew, so that's on him.

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And that was my next question, like the hardship,

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because it seemed like if he knew that it was a duplex,

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do you think it was a self-created hardship,

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or does he have a different hardship in terms of just...

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He assumed the risk, but the hardship exists physically

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with the property that he'll have to either gut that himself.

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But obviously he's assuming the risk.

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And my...

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honest about it. Unlike sometimes, you know, some folks on it. Thank you. And my last question is

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your immediate next next door neighbor. Um, were they in support or opposition? The immediate

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next door. There's only one person on the other side. Yeah. Mr. Farouk, have you had any

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communication with the immediate next door neighbor? Yes, I had, um, her name is Melissa

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and, um, and Tom and her mom. They it's a big, it's a, it's another duplex and the family lives

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in there they're not opposing this okay thank you actually i do have one more question was the

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garage already completely separated or was there just a kitchen or a kitchenette and a bathroom

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in the garage similar to like a rec room or a basement what bar area could have

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can you pull up the plan again just so we see what he's what you're talking about

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was there a separate entrance right and had the utilities been separated like had it been

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already subdivided from the home itself with there were only two utility boxes okay yeah

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so to what work is left uh that your client would need to do to come turn this into a holy third

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I THINK HE'S ALREADY, PARUK, COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WORK IS EITHER LEFT OR WHAT WORK YOU COMPLETED UPON PURCHASE?

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CAN YOU SHOW THE BASEMENT PLAN SO WE CAN SEE?

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PARUK, DID YOU HEAR THE QUESTION?

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HE WENT OFF, I THINK.

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i believe there was he did do work in that basement but none that would require uh any

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more additional it looks like everything that was done required permits that's sort of why i was

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asking and would he be opposed to a co no he's not opposed to okay because anything that touches

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any plumbing and anything that touches any electrical and any partition walls requires a

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permit so um i don't know what work could have been done to convert it that wouldn't have required

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well flooring permits other than flooring and painting right that's i believe that's what

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pretty much they did but um so then it was already wholly separated right except for the electric it

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was not separated yeah except for the utilities but you're saying like this was already subdivided

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where it had no connection to the rest of the home it was already closed off yeah okay yeah

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I thought your question was about separation of utilities.

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Yeah, it was about closing off of the structure.

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So who has access to the parking in the back? Is it just the unit on the basement, or do other units have access to the parking?

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There's two-car parking in the rear, and right now it's two of the units would have access to that.

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And under this scenario, will they still have access?

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yes this is a shared driveway in the back here

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right questions from our attorney um not so much a question i just wanted to

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note um the so let me just okay this is rsa four so parking is not required

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the so the parking spaces it seemed like would have previously been interior parking and so

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there's no reference to moving these two service parking spaces so that may need to be done through

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a separate permit application um and which could also generate a refusal for having parking if it's

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in the required rear yard or because it's access from a shared driveway so that should not be a

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problem right um but i just want to make a note of that for the record because i saw the spaces

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but did not see any note on the um refusal about that so thank you questions or comments from the

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virtual audience. Chair, we had a hand up from Matthew Burns. Okay, we're going to do the

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council person's offices here. How else could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer? Morning, Chairman, members of the board, Alice Udovich, A-L-I-C-E-U-D-O-V-I-C-H,

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on behalf of Councilman Brian. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,

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nothing but the truth? I do. Please proceed. I first want to say that I apologize if your

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client felt in any way that this had anything to do with anything other than zoning i also want to

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maintain that the property is listed as being owned by real estate empire llc i'm sure that

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that's a somewhat sophisticated operation and they knew exactly what they were buying

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this is a complete overuse of this property these this is a small row of five or six duplexes there

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is no hardship existing here as to why this property can't be used as a duplex instead

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of trying to take a utility and garage floor level and and make it into a tiny apartment

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do you have any questions no thank you anyone else please the other person in the audience

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yes we have a hand up from matthew burns and another hand from the virtual audience

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persons with the initial GC.

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Okay. First one, please.

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Hello?

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Hello?

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Hi, GC.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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My name is Giovanni Carpino, G-I-O-V-A-N-N-I.

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last names Carpino C-A-R-P-I-N-O do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

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whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir could you turn your video on and are

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yes sir could you turn your video on and are you a neighbor i am

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you a neighbor

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all right please i don't know if it's going to let me let me uh start your testimony we're fine

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let me yeah i have to pull over but um so i've owned since 2006 um there's probably more like

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nine units there's a separation for a breezeway that are on that block um we welcome all owners

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uh to that block actually there's a couple owners that are on this call as well

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that owner occupy as well as myself um i have no objection to him continuing usage as a duplex

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But when it comes to a triplex, that just messes with the infrastructure of our neighborhood, allowing more cars, trash, people, and it becomes very overcluttered.

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I would love to know because everybody has been so welcoming.

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We all help each other shovel during the wintertime.

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We all are friends with each other on that block.

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So I find it very hard to believe I'm not calling him a liar, but I find it hard to believe that somebody would object to him the way he's saying it's being objected.

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So, Mr. Carpino, you're not in favor of this project, am I correct?

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I'm not in favor of this project because of what he's trying to do.

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He's been doing work in that building unpermitted for a while now.

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he's taken down trees that he threw the trees down into the into the crick

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I'm not great on the property okay the property alone I'm the I'm objective in

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it of a triplex yes it's not any questions all right next hand please

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and how many hands do we have up sure we have Matthew Burns and I hit our

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lopez okay mr burns hi hi mr burns could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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uh matthew burns m-a-t-t-h-e-w-e-e-r-n-s all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

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told truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor yes are you in favor of this project

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or against against do you have any reasons you can present other than what's already been

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explained yeah i mean i attended that meeting last week and the one prior to that uh that they

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didn't even show up to um so i've i've never met um the client i've never seen him before

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that's just me i don't know but i know giovanni i know you hire uh they're my next door neighbors

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i live in this house we have all similar units there's i don't see how this could be a triplex

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it would be fairly unlivable at the meeting itself when they passed around pictures

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of the units all i saw was an unfinished basement with a slop sink in it okay

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the units in the house that i have in the same house so i don't know where these pictures are

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coming from or what they're showing us but it seems very disingenuous what they're doing

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um i am also sorry uh like we rent to our upstairs neighbors we don't care about their background or

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where they came from right i mean thank you very much we appreciate your comments

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counselor do you have any questions i don't next hand please

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hi good afternoon everyone hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yes it's yahira lopez y-a-h-i-r-a l-o-p-e-z right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

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told truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor yes i am are you in favor of this

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practice or against i am against this project and then please if there's anything that's different

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than what's already been testified but other than that we will note that you're in favor okay

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Again, I'm sure.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Pretty much, you know, we're all very neighborly here.

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We're very welcoming.

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We highly encourage owner occupancy, which is great because we tend to get along.

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We all care for our properties.

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Pretty much for the same reasons Giovanni and Matthew had stated there is a shortage in parking.

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We all share the same common area in the back.

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There is only one way in and one way out.

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so there is uh it will increase uh daily traffic back there uh there will be an

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so there will also be an overload of utilities by uh uh turning a duplex into a triplex with

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more strain on the sewage water and electrical infrastructure unfortunately today the main

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storm drain sits right behind my property so that also can impact my infrastructure as well

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so that also can impact my infrastructure as well thank you thank you thank you very much i think

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many things you've said we've all heard we appreciate it council do you have any questions

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i have no questions just comment that uh the unit would be you know small enough that i don't think

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any kind of impact on the water or sewage would be the material is there anyone else in the audience

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no hands at this time chair any commission planning commission um michael gall with the

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philadelphia city planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change to

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the rsa4 residential single family attached zoning at this location the city last rezoned

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this neighborhood in 1981 at that time the property had been zoned r7 at residential

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which is today's rsa4 and had been zoned residential single family since the inception

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of the zoning code in 1933. a previous owner did receive approval to legalize a second dwelling

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unit however there is no unique physical condition or circumstance of this property

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that would prevent it from being used in strict conformity with the zoning code there are other

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two unit buildings on this block face but no legal three unit buildings city planning commission

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therefore recommends the board grant the proposed use variance for residential use but with a

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recommended proviso maximum of two units okay so um thank you very much we're going to have a

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resumptive hearing on this on 7 29 2026 at 9 30 a.m uh we will close other than additional

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information that we'll hear from council am i correct hillary and the rco and the rco actually

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mr sure since we're doing a resumption hearing i would i would leave the record open because the

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rco hasn't submitted a letter okay i know council had addition um had a video they wanted to submit

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and they're also going to show proof of posting and that sort of thing okay so let's leave the

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record open all right thank you very much thank you all right okay yeah okay

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Number eight, MI-2025-005-738-2408, Nicholas Street.

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Vern Anastasio is the attorney.

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Mr. Anastasio, just for the record, state your name.

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You've already been sworn.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

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Members of the board, Vern Anastasio, A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O.

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On behalf of my client, Killian Gersing.

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Okay. Let's see here what we have here. Slash Community Corporation. We have a letter from them. Non-opposition from Council Member Young. Our Vice Chair has a few additional questions.

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Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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I did.

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And do you waive the read and the refusal to assimilate to us accuracy?

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I do.

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All right. Thank you. Show your screen and proceed with your case.

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2408 nicholas street our application is for visitor accommodation in an existing structure

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that just went blank

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MY COMPUTER JUST FROZE.

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SECOND.

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SORRY ABOUT THAT, MR. CHAIR.

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IT SHOULD BE BETTER NOW.

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IT'S A VISITOR ACCOMMODATION IN AN

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existing structure and i have to stop sharing and reshare my apologies

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i'm getting blank pages here right now so

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I have to

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I may have to reboot

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okay

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Visitor accommodation in an existing structure and we have a refusal here.

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This is a beautifully renovated apart home.

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this is a beautifully renovated apart uh home

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it's a duplex

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i'm sorry there it is no it's not there it is

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there's this for both units yes sir

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it's a duplex as you can see here there's the layout

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your first floor unit in red top unit in green

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property has been completely redeveloped on the interior and exterior

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we spoke to the immediate neighbor on this side here where my cursor is they are in complete support

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This property had been used for limited lodging previously, zero incident.

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They are using Deluxe Hospitality, Mr. Anthony Lolio, who has testified before this board several times about the management style, the vetting, the rules and regulations, no one under 25, no parties, very strict as Deluxe has always done.

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Beautifully appointed. We met with the neighbors, the RCO, and as a result of those meetings, we move into evidence their letter of non-opposition, as well as Councilman Young's letter of support.

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The block is still a challenging block. There is an immediate adjacent property that has been cleaned and sealed. There's no development going on as planned because my client has invested a lot into into this property and wants to make sure that it yields enough to maintain it. We do respectfully request the granting of this variance for the visitor accommodation. Thank you.

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you want to bring your client on mr killian gersing if he's still here with us please raise

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your virtual hand thank you i'm on hi could you please state your name sir and spell for the

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stenographer uh this is killing gersing k-i-l-i-a-n last name gersing g-e-r-s-i-n-g

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you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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i do could you turn your video on please yeah thank you

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Council thank you Killian did you hear my presentation to the board today I did it's

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true and accurate to the best of your knowledge it is and you adopt it as your own testimony

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yes I do thank you I have nothing further questions from the board

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what's going to be the trash plan is this going to be something that's completely

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managed by the um I guess the company yep uh yep it'll be interior and that after every stay

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the deluxe hospitality comes in and takes all that trash out and then do you know what when

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you were doing this before what was your sort of average tenure of a visitor gillian what's the

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average tenure right now it is about um one to two months but we're not doing any short-term

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right now it's medium-term essentially and so the plan this would shift it so like this would

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obviously allow you to have less than 30 day rental so okay other questions

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um does your client have experience with oh yes yes so he's done these kind of things yes he

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certainly has and again uh he's going to be using uh the platform platform management folks that do

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this stuff um one of them being a deluxe listing which mr lolio has been here in the past and

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had testified to his strict vetting and strict maintenance of the properties okay and um does

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he have like a rating gillian do you have a rating yet anywhere it's a rating on the on the on the

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airbnb platform you mean yes yeah it's it's it's i believe it's around like 4.8 4.9 but i've

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it's it's very hard yeah out of five stars that's right oh okay that's high yeah

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questions from our attorney not at this time questions or comments from the virtual audience

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i think cheryl's shopping no hands at this time chair any commission michael gall with the

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philadelphia city planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends a change in

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zoning at this location from the existing RM1 residential multifamily to RSA5 residential

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single-family attached. The appellant has not demonstrated that there are any unique

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the appellant has not demonstrated that there are any unique physical conditions or circumstances of

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physical conditions or circumstances of the property that would

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the property that would prevent it from being used in strict conformance with the zoning code

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therefore the city planning commission recommends the board deny the requested variance for visitor

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accommodation use in my 2025-005-438-2408 nicholas street i vote yes temporary variance expires 5729

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Thank you, Michael Johns. My vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaster, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Taya Wayne, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Thank you, counsel.

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Thank you.

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MI-2025-006-773-2233 North 7th Street. Eric Carroll is the attorney.

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they're being promoted to panelists share

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unanimous support from 37 ward RCO and non-opposition from council member Young

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good morning chairman panel Eric Carroll here for the applicant appellant

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hi Mr Kers could you please spell your name for the stenographer

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certainly eric c-a-r-r-o-l-l right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

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but the truth i do and could you identify your client a relationship to this property yes so my

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client is um unique consulting and investments and the principal of that firm moniquetta coats

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uh is here in the virtual audience she is the contractor and consultant for the tenant in this

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the commercial tenant in this space son Sarah Hammond or voice shares a few

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questions good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits

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five days in advance of this hearing yes and do you waive the reading of the

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referral and stipulate to its accuracy I do okay thank you can show your screen

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and proceed with your case okay the the property here at issue actually goes by

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two addresses 22 33 north 7th street as well as 22 24 to 22 50 germantown avenue uh the proper

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the property as a whole is this white building here that was erected in 2021 dolphins dolphin

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street is immediately to the north uh germantown avenue is to the east and 7th street is to the

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west and it's it's a triangular property at the end of the block so you can see it's a four story

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building. Those are residential apartments on floors two, three, and four. And the first

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floor is, it's a commercial space and some offices for the leasing company.

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Property zone CMX2. My, as I said, my client is unique consulting investments. They're a

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contractor and development consultant they were retained by Sun Sarah Hammond an individual who

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signed a commercial lease for part of the first floor space what Ms Hammond wants to do is install

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a event space it would be known as S and S Lux suite this would be an event space that you know

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where people could rent out it's not a bar or a restaurant it's for private events

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i've submitted all the documents this is the refusal as you see the application is for event

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space with occasional live entertainment and that proposed use is not permitted here this

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is a referral for special exception not not a not a refusal the appeal was submitted

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project information form was submitted

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these are the plans as I mentioned it's a it's a triangular property the event space would be at

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the point of the triangle which is on the left of these plants here but actually to the north

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pointing towards Dolphin Street you can see the layout you would walk in at the at the entrance

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at the building and then there's the event space here uh where the tables and chairs or whatever

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people renting the space would want to put in would be kitchen and bathrooms in the back the

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whole area is only 2662 square feet the other portion of the first floor there there ultimately

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may be other tenants in there but we are only leasing this Porsche this front portion here

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this these are pictures of what the interior looks like as you can see

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These are pictures of what the interior looks like.

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As you can see, the fit out has been completed.

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Another one here.

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My client actually met with the RCO back on April 15th.

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And as part of that meeting, she prepared this overview.

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So what it is, professionally managed indoor event space for private celebrations,

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small gatherings, business meeting, community events. This is not a very big space, so there's

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not going to be a lot of people there. There's no liquor license. There's going to be no alcohol

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sales. This is not going to be a late night club or anything like that. There's ample parking along

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Germantown Avenue. For this part of the city, it's an oddly low density area, and there's ample

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street parking the 37th ward rco voted unanimously in support 13-0 on april 15th

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i have the pictures of the posted notices along the building

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certificates of mailing for the rco meeting

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uh and this is also the tax clearance certificate

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for son sarah hammond and her lease with with the with the actual building owner germantown owner llc

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um i have miss coates in the audience in the virtual audience i would ask that she be

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elevated unless there's any questions at this point um is it possible that the tenant could

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be asked to adopt your testimony as opposed to the contractor who she hired because i do

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looks like she is in the audience uh if ms hammond is in the audience yes she could be elevated and

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i've absolutely thank you

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what's your name again

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since sarah hammond can you raise your hand please currently miss hammond and miss coates

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are both declining to become panelists at this time um let me see i have hold on let me see if

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i can get in touch with them okay she's trying i just got a text from my client apparently she's

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trying to join right now okay all right miss hammond can you please accept the request to be

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promoted to a panelist do we share

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Ms. Hammond, can you please unmute yourself and turn on your camera, you've been promoted.

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Thank you.

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so how are we making out with seeing her um it looks like she went off of the zoo so so council

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you know officer the court could can you answer most of the questions you think yes okay questions

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from the board what's your hours of operation um it would mostly be in the afternoons uh on the

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weekends or evenings but i think the latest thing will be scheduled for like the limit at the end of

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night would be 9 or 10 o'clock maybe even earlier would you say to end at 9 yes yes this would not

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be a late night establishment i have a question about deliveries um i understand that you guys

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have that primary entrance that's at the corner of germantown and 7th street um but it is you know

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there's a column in front of it so i'm wondering is it your plan to have like all if you're going

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If you're going to have a rental furniture, if you're going to have catering coming in and out of that same entrance, or do you have access to like a loading dock?

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to have a rental furniture if you're going to have catering coming in and out of that same entrance

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There's a, yeah, there's actually a, there's a, on 7th street, there's a side door entrance and that's, which once you go into that, that's, you know, where the trash trucks come in and out there.

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There's a large space in inside the building coming off 7th street.

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and your client will have use of that space yes that's an agreement with building management yes

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and then my second question and what is the plan on site for amplified sound or music or even live

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music um to the extent there would be live music there would not be it would not be a situation

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where there wouldn't be a concert situation it would be like a small band or a dj or something

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like that um but it would decibels would be contractually limited

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understood but there's still so there's plan to have that on site

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what's going to be the plan for sound attenuation between the floors for the residences above

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The landlord does not have an issue with this. As I said, it's a new building.

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I understand that. That wasn't my question.

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I'm sorry. Could you rephrase your question, please?

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My question was, what is your client's plan for sound attenuation between the units, given that

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this is a first commercial condo and there are a rental unit and there are residences above

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i don't we don't think that that will be an issue given the construction but if it is i mean we're

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just going to have to further limit the the decibel um cap on the on the contracts okay

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and then on the plan i just because i'm looking in google maps hi good afternoon this is sansari

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hammond i apologize for the delay sure could you please state your name and spell it for the

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stenographer. Sure. Sanceri Hammond, S-O-N-C-E-R-A-H-A-M-M-O-N-D. Do you swear or affirm the

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tell the truth, told truth, nothing about the truth? Yes. And you're the owner. Yes. You're

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going to be the tenant. Yes. Of those speeds. Yes. Questions? Ms. Hammond, could you speak to

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the volume issues with the live music? So there shouldn't be any live music here. If you heard

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live music it can be from my other cell phone which is vibrating but there should be live music

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at the no no at the in the event space you're going to have djs oh i'm so sorry i was i was

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out of the meeting for a moment so i didn't hear that information so we will allow djs but to a

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certain extent and we do have speakers also that we do provide yeah so my question was actually

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what is the plan for sound attenuation between your unit and the residences above

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so the ducting work that was built into the space does allow the information to be sound

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proof for the tenants above so there shouldn't be any sound issues with the tenants being able

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to hear anything that goes on within the commercial space okay and then uh the other

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question was about loading in like for furniture or for catering and deliveries so we don't allow

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any catering um if people can bring food but not a physical caterer because we do not have

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a kitchenette inside the space low and then we do load it we can load in from the main entrance

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into the side the suite so your plan is to do drop off catering only yes okay and then what

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so what type of events are you planning on having in this space typically small intimate events such

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as baby showers um office events cater um not caterers office events baby showers parties very

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intimate set set in no more than about 60 to 70 people and then what's the max uh what's the max

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people that can be in the space 75 okay all the questions questions from our attorney

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not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience

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no hands at this time i did want to clarify um because this is a large building and there are

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i believe multiple commercial spaces is this considered unit b this is considered commercial

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2. Yes. Tenant B. Yes. Tenant B. Commercial 2. Okay. Yes. Thank you. No problem.

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Anyone in the virtual audience? No hands at the time, Chair. Planning Commission.

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Michael Gall with the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no

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change to the existing CMX2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location. This property has a long

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documented history as a hotel location dating to well before the adoption of

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the city's first zoning code and the property subsequently operated as an

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auto repair business. In the new building, the proposed use of this

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In the new building, the proposed use of this property as an assembly facility is consistent with the corridor nature of Germantown Avenue and should cause no undue detriment to neighboring properties beyond what might otherwise be expected.

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property as an assembly facility is consistent with the corridor nature

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Therefore, the Philadelphia City Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested special exception for event assembly facility use.

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MI 2025-006-773-2233 North 7th Street.

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I vote yes with proviso. Events to end by 9 p.m. and commercial, unit commercial B only.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Taya Wynn, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Thank you, Council.

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And just to clarify, I'll put on the notice of decision, it's commercial 2 slash tenant B.

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That's kind of a double name.

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i'll put both on there so it's clear thank you um number 15.

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MI-2025-007-015-203-09, Diamond Street. Myra the Ferliger is the attorney.

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Non-opposition from Council Member Lozada. Letter of support from Norris Square.

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Council, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Meredith Ferliger, F-E-R-L-E-G-E-R.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes, I do.

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Could you identify your client in relationship to the property?

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Sure.

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My client is SAV Investments, LLC, and that LLC is represented today on the Zoom by Dan Hirschel.

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Okay. Our Vice Chair has a few questions. Hi. Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing? Yes, I did. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy? Yes, I do. Okay. Thank you. You can show your screen and proceed with the case.

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all right we do also on the zoom today have our architect logan dry from kca in case there are

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any questions before the board today is a proposal that will eliminate a long vacant lot at the

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corner of diamond street and north phillip street in the city's nara square section of north

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philadelphia this identical proposal was approved by the board back in 2020 though with different

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refusals at the time than are before the board today due to a change in zoning that has occurred

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since then the property involved as you know is 203 209 diamond street and is currently zoned rsa5

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it was last zoned cmx2 during the initial approval the board has an exhibit packet in front of you

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with 16 exhibits, including tax clearance at Exhibit 2 and the deed to the property at Exhibit 3.

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As Mr. Chairman mentioned, we are also pleased to include at Exhibit 16 letters of support from

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both the Councilwoman and the official RCO for this property.

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Turning to the zoning map here on the screen at Exhibit 5, you'll see that this lot here

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is at the corner of diamond street and north phillip street just by way of context north

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american street is just to the west of the property what is notable here is that this is the

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only rsa5 zoned lot facing diamond street for many many blocks to both the west as well as to

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the east and if i just sort of scroll over i on the view that i have here i can't even get an rsa5

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lot to the west, and the next one to the east is all the way over here at Hancock Street.

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Other than this anomaly in zoning classification, all of the other lots facing Diamond Street are

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zoned RM1, CMX2, or ICMX on the American Street corridor. As you can see on the next couple of

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pages, this area was rezoned shortly after the board's last approval for this lot, rezoning the

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lot from cmx2 to its current condition rsa5 the aerials to the property are shown at exhibit 7

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the aerials to the property are shown at exhibit seven just to give you a little bit more context

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just to give you

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in the first view here looking north you'll see the vacant lot that is the subject of this

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application at the corner now if the board takes note of the surrounding area you'll see a dominant

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industrial commercial stretch along american street and then more more uh proximate to this

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property you'll see an auto repair garage directly next door to the east of the property

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now from this view you'll also see the newer multi-family

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developments that have been constructed closer to diamond street along some of the side streets

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the next image here is just a closer view and again just showing you a little bit

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better context of north second street just to the east of the property

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And again, this is looking at the property from the east direction, looking towards North 2nd Street.

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And then this large vacant swath of land here that you can see in the image is currently under construction for a new commercial office building.

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looking at the uh street view images here this first image of the property is from north phillip

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street uh and again this also shows the timely posted zoning posters the second image here is

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looking a little bit further uh down on north phillip street the property is basically to the

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right of the photo and you can see here basically half of the block on north phillips street a

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little bit further way down is uh residential and then the other half facing american street

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is dominantly industrial commercial this is a view of the property from diamond street where

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again you'll see that auto repair and window tint business that is directly next to this property

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and i believe was recently renovated looking in the opposite direction of the property there are

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a few mixed residential commercial structures as well as a new multi-family just off of north

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second street just off of diamond and then again this next image is looking east on diamond street

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where again you can see the fairly clear lack of dominant single-family character in this particular

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area. And then looking west on Diamond Street, this is directly next to the property, where again

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you can see the large commercial child care center next door, and then across the street is where

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that office building is, I believe, under construction. And then this is the zoning

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posters that were posted on Diamond Street. So the zoning plans are shown at Exhibit 9, which again

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is identical to that which was approved and permitted in 2020. The proposal itself calls

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for the erection of a four-story structure to be used as a multifamily dwelling with eight dwelling

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units. The structure itself meets all of the dimensional requirements of the code.

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And if I zoom in on the zoning plans, although a nine-foot rear yard is required, you can see here

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that the structure itself will actually be set back 12 feet from the next adjacent

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lot on north phillips street which happens to be a vacant city-owned lot

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the floor plans are included at exhibit 10. overall there are eight units each over a thousand

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square feet the cellar level includes bike storage trash storage mechanical and tenant storage

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The two first floor units also have a small flexible living space on that lower level as well.

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All of the units themselves have ample living space in unit laundry and in unit trash closets in addition to that trash storage area in the cellar level as well.

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Commercial trash pickup will be required for this building.

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as i mentioned logan dry is here and he can explain the floor plans in any additional detail

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that the board requires but the units themselves you can see are all fairly uniform in size and

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layout we did also include a rendering of the building at exhibit 11. now as i mentioned in

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In 2020, the project itself was reviewed and granted relief based on two refusals at the

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time.

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This time, under current restrictions, the application only received one refusal for

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the proposed multifamily use.

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You can see in 2020, the refusals were for density and lack of commercial, and now the

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and lack of commercial and now the refusal is just for the proposed multi-family

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refusal is just for the proposed

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we submit that the board can consider several hardships granting authorizing grant of relief

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of this request first just basically starting with the history of the property any remaining

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structures on this particular lot were seemingly demolished sometime back in the 60s and it has

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remained entirely vacant since then furthermore as i've shown at exhibit 12 and i'll bring up the

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zoning plan here this exact project was reviewed and approved by the board and granted variances

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based on the refusal that i showed a few minutes ago that request was pursued by a prior owner of

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the property my client now is the new owner of the property who is just looking to re-entitle

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this identical project unfortunately not only did the zoning of the property itself change

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but it became even more restrictive and entirely out of character with the context of this

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particular section of diamond street the property itself suffered unique hardships in terms of

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density back in 2020 and although the commercial use itself is no longer required the hardships

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preventing development of single-family dwellings remain.

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As you can see on Exhibit 6, let me zoom back out on this.

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The uses of surrounding properties here would foreclose the development of unsubsidized single-family homes on this particular lot,

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which was actually consolidated under former ownership.

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most of the surrounding uses of properties facing diamond street are either industrial

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automotive or are substantially sized commercial developments on parcels like the one across the

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street that are significantly larger furthermore there are multitude of existing and multi-family

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developments just even in this view alone development supporting 13 units 18 units

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And if I happen to zoom out more, there would be even more orange dots up and down North Phillip Street and North 2nd Street, indicating the presence of multifamily dwellings.

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I did include a full list of nearby multifamily and their densities in the memo of law at Exhibit 13.

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we do submit this as the least minimum variance as no dimensional variances are necessary and

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is completely identical to the development that was previously approved on this lot

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just by way of comparison if this lot was zoned rm1 the eight proposed units would actually be

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permitted by right here so it is perfectly comparable to the rm1 densities that surround

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the property the layout itself also supports the finding with eight well appointed units that are

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that are quite large we also submit this will not increase congestion given the character of this

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area and the transit oriented nature of this particular development it will not impair light

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and air or negatively impact surrounding properties nor will it place any undue burden on facilities

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utilities or cause any environmental damage pollution or erosion we submit that the

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the variance complies in full with section 14303 of the code and again is further detailed in the

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memo of law just one final note when the board heard this case in 2020 it received a letter of

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opposition from the community this time around the developer was able to work with the community to

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execute a cba of mutually acceptable terms and we're very happy to say that the community was

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supportive of the project this time around uh so i'm happy to bring my client on adopt my testimony

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and answer any questions who's your client dan hirsch out okay

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Good morning, Mr. Chair. This is Jason Hand. I'm stepping in temporarily. Dan Herschel has

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been promoted. They'll be coming back in shortly. Dan, could you please state your

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name and spell for the stenographer? Let's be back in shortly. Sure.

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hey hello everyone thank you meredith please please state your name and spell it for the

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stenographer surely yeah dan hershout d-a-n last name h-i-r-s-h-o-u-t

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Sure, Leah. Dan Hirschhout, D-A-N, last name H-I-R-S-H-O-U-T.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told the truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Counsel?

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Dan, can you confirm you have authority to speak on behalf of SAV Investments, LLC?

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Yes.

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And you've been present and heard all the testimony and evidence that I offered in front of the board today?

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Yes.

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Do you agree that testimony was true and accurate, and would you adopt it as if you had provided it to the board yourself?

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yes happy to answer questions from the board yeah question how's how are you dealing with mail and

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deliveries dan are you able to address that question well there's going to be a um obviously

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there'll be an interior uh mailbox but maybe i would defer to our architect to give you a more

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exact uh location of the mailboxes in the process and and how yeah so and of course folks are getting

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a lot of uh amazon deliveries so box areas for boxes and how does it work and if you can show

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that on the plan how do you do are we dealing with that where's the architect yeah logan dry please

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i don't i don't see on anything on this first floor that shows

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a mail room or we're somewhere to place boxes or

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or anything there is a long corridor yeah while we're waiting for logan i mean i think

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i think just even logan in the audience do you do you see him if logan drives in the audience

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to come back in as a panelist now ah there he is logan could you please state your name is

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spelled for the stenographer sure logan dry l-o-g-a-n-d-r-y you swear affirm to tell the

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truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do counsel okay logan you heard uh board members

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question concerning uh mail on the first floor can you confirm that just given the size uh of

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these units and the first floor layout that there would be ample space to add a uh a designated mail

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area yeah i mean you know right now that staircase off of um phillips street has a has a corridor

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that's separated from the staircase but um if we needed to uh do like a separate designated

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area we could always bump a small space either off of that corridor to enlarge it where they

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could possibly fit you know something more suited for packages or in unit two we could bump into

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that space as well to make a dedicated package space there's plenty of room on the first floor

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to add that if that was yeah because right now right now your hallway appears to be probably

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four feet maybe four and a half feet so you know yeah we could we could we could get another two

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feet or so and then easily get you know a more dedicated like package or mailbox counter um the

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back corridor that goes into the yard is a little bit tighter but i would probably do it off of

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phillips street just because um it's probably the most realistic place that we're going to meet the

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usps standards for packages and mailboxes that sort of thing when it's inside but

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and the trash you have commercial trash pickup and everybody has access to the trash room and

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the basement right yep other questions is the thought that the tenants are going to walk down

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the four flights of stairs for those that are living on the fourth floor to dispose of their

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trash in the basement or is the management company planning to manage trash at each

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for for the building logan or dan are you able to address that question

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well yeah i was going to say physically yes they go down the stairs unless you know dan has

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a management company that comes around and collects it from each unit um i'm not sure on

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that arrangement but yeah physically you'd have to go down the stairs whether it's the tenants or

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um you know management but maybe dan can speak a little bit more to how he manages the properties

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and trash and stuff like that when it's commercial pickup yeah absolutely i mean we're going to plan

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to be through there basically and even on a daily basis to keep the premises clean so we can arrange

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something you know that's uh that'll be you know win-win for everybody involved most importantly

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not to put someone out of uh you know the physicality of going up and down before eight

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eight flights of steps so that certainly can be worked into the property management agreements

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and we already do this at a number of other properties where we even have like a valet service

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how many of your other properties are fourth floor walk-ups uh there's two others two others okay so

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you do have experience with this yeah and are they a similar number of units in the building

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in the building basically you know nice roomy uh you know layouts okay other questions questions

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Basically, you know, nice roomy, you know, layouts.

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Okay.

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from our attorney not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience

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i do not see any hands mr chair planning commission give me that michael gall with

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the philadelphia city planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change

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to the previous cmx2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location in 2021 in a council

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support its community remapping this property was remapped to rsa 5 residential single family

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attached under the previous cmx2 base zoning six residential units would be allowed here by right

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therefore the city planning commission recommends the board grant the proposed variants for

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multi-family use but at a recommended proviso with a maximum of six residential units

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and by 2025 0 0 7 0 1 0 1 5 203 to 09 diamond street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes

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sarah gaston my vote is yes it's another graham my vote is yes i went my vote is yes

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thank you thanks guys thank you all right thank you okay yeah so next one is mi 2025

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95-007-019-432, East Gerrard Avenue.

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Michael Agnell is the attorney.

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There's a letter of support from Fishtown Neighbors,

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unanimous support from Fishtown Kensington Business,

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and no opposition from Council Member Squillin.

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Sir, could you please, by the way, we're sorry you're the last one.

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Oh, I'm glad you fit.

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You know, I mean, you know, could you please state your name and spell for this stenographer?

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Yeah. Hi, my name is Michael Eggnall, M-I-C-H-A-E-L, last name E-G-N-A-L.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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And could you identify your client in relationship to the property?

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Right. My clients are the owners of the LLC that owns the property. I'm going to make sure that they're here.

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But Nestor and Edison should be okay in there, and also Michelle Kashuk from parallel architecture is also planning to join us.

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Okay, so why don't we, why don't the or vice chair has a few questions for you.

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Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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We have, and do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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We do. Okay, thank you. You can see your screen and proceed.

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Thank you.

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so 432 and 434 east gerard avenue are two adjacent masonry structures at the corner of

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east gerard avenue and earl street that you see there they're currently two separate tax parcels

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and part of this application is combining the two into a single property and that that generated the

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refusals in addition to i'm coming to the side here filling in the second and third stories with

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additions within the existing footprint also generated the refusals we received a referral

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for a special exception because the restaurant use requires a special exception within the nca overlay

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I didn't want to switch so that's the existing condition to give you a sense of the streetscape we're directly adjacent to another restaurant, which is our only neighbor.

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I want to show you that there.

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here. So the full screen. Can you see this? Okay. So the, I'm showing you, you saw the existing

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condition the rendering is the we're maintaining the existing structure and we're planning to

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let's see

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there we go the plan is to fill in an addition within the existing footprint at the second and

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third stories, and that would be residential use. The two buildings will be combined across the

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first floor, and that will be a restaurant. The owners of the building already own and operate

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a restaurant in Philadelphia, and they're similarly going to bring the same use here

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that they already are successful with elsewhere. The community and the business improvement district

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were supportive of this because these are seasoned operators. They're restoring an existing building.

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seasoned operators, they're restoring an existing building, they're bringing back retail activity at

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They're bringing back retail activity.

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the ground level, and they've given consideration for handicap access, trash management, and they're

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planning to operate a family-friendly business that won't have late business hours, and yeah,

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that resonated with the community. So at that point, I'd like to invite Michelle Keshek, if she's

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here to um speak to the the design itself okay why don't we why don't we um yep

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they are coming back in as a panelist right now

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hello hi could you please state your name as bellford's photographer

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Yes, Michelle Kleshek, M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E, Kleshek, K-L-E-S-C-H-I-C-K.

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Thank you.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Counsel?

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Yeah.

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Michelle, why don't you take us through the layout and, you know, speak to the life safety things and, you know, just to the layout of the restaurant in general?

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Okay. Yeah, so you did a pretty good job of explaining the, you know, the overall concept of the building.

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We do have the openings in the first floor allow flow between the two sides.

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We've raised the floor in a portion of the building because the two buildings are a different level on the first floor.

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So we wanted to make sure that we had seating that was accessible since we were going to take the time to put the ramp in there.

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um so we raised the floor and a portion of the fourth floor so you can come in and then

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you know navigate throughout the public space of the building on the first floor

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um in the back of the house we have the trash area and the storage area and then um access

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to the basement that would include you know probably uh like one of those ramps so that

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they can bring food and stuff in from that side entrance so they don't have to come through the

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restaurant with it and also then to remove trash from that area um and then further back is the

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staircase that accesses the residential units on the upper floors it's not a super big building

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did you speak to the trash room yet and where it's accessible from and who uses it um yeah so

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there's actually a trash room the on the far lower right hand corner of each floor on the first floor

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there you can see it um there's a uh the staircase for the upper floor units with a trash room tucked

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underneath of them um it should be big enough for four to six you know standard size trash cans for

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the residential area and then for the commercial area there'd be room for three or four trash cans

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um i believe when we were with meeting with the neighbors uh we said there we would probably have

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trash pickup twice a week um and then um you know see how it goes regarding if it needs to be more

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frequently or less frequently to uh you know keep from too many trash trucks on the street but then

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also to not have stuff pile up on the property uh that's right thank you okay do you want to

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bring your client on to the doctor i got them a text i didn't get a reply can we see is there

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anybody named Nestor or Edison in the audience? I'd like to bring them in.

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Well, you're an officer of the court. We have you. You've got me.

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Well, and we have the architect, right? That's right.

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So questions from the board? Yes. So it looks like there's currently a bill code door

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on the street and that the new proposed handicap ramp is going to eliminate that.

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what will be the access to the basement that's right uh michelle do you want to speak to this

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yeah i was going to say if you can show back the the floor plan if you can zoom in on the first

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floor okay uh shoot what is it there you go i'm in up a little bit so um you can see the trash room

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in the trash area and commercial area there um the third door from the right there's actually

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a old window or door opening in that wall that would then provide access to the basement so the

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idea would be to come into that door and then have like one of those roller caster things so they can

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load boxes into the basement and then you'd only be bringing it up you know a little bit at a time

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to use it in the kitchen so carrying it back up wouldn't be difficult like the old uh like

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the old pulley pulley elevators well no not not necessarily like a dumb waiter um

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like the old roller skates yeah the old yeah yeah

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like the old roller skates. Yeah, the old roller. Yeah, yeah. And like you see a lot of people with the Bilco doors that they put those in there too, so they can just set the box down and slide it into the basement. So it'd be the same idea. It would just be inside.

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Okay. Yes. And where the trash room is being stored is where is that rear fire escape? That is the current garage.

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That's right.

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Right. Okay.

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Yeah.

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The garage will disappear.

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It'll disappear.

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And again, the owners are restaurateurs.

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collaboration with the architect for this scheme so they understand the logistics of moving the

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food in and i mean they do this every day and they're comfortable with the logistics of and

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that they'd be able to handle it all right okay other questions are you assuming the deliveries

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for the bar are going to be off of the door that's right at the back bar is that what's going to

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happen bar deliveries are that's just the escape route for the bartender when something happens

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i think it would probably just depend on like yeah how big of a delivery it is if it's something

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that could go immediately to the bar then yeah it would come in that way if not it would go

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in the same way as everything else and then redistribute from the staircases and this is

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all eight and this is all eight and no take out yes

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It is definitely an Eden restaurant. I, I thought every place probably was Eden and take out, but it's certainly an Eden restaurant.

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What are we doing about venting?

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Michelle.

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so um i think the vent is going to come up in the back corner where that yard is and it would go all

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the way up the back in our yard area and then turn back over the roof so that it was you know

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well be up with you know proper distances beyond the property line in the back and and we did

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discuss this with the community uh if we toggle back to the current street view there was that

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there was an exhaust from this was a restaurant 20 or 30 years ago there's an exhaust at the main

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level just shooting right out of the wall and the community wanted that to disappear and we agreed

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so we're running it all the way up so that it doesn't bother the community and it's not an

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eyesore okay thank you questions from our attorney um so we have a when i was looking through this

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last night a little bit of an issue with the refusal um because the refusal just talks about

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the restaurant it doesn't mention any residential uses and i went and looked at what was filed with

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lni to see if it was something that was just missed by lni and the plans that lni has show

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what the description that was given to lni was a restaurant on the first and second floor

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with residential above what was in the plans today showed restaurant on the first floor

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with residential on the second and third floor so i just wanted clarification on what's happening

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and we're going to have to get a new refusal before we vote on this because the refusal

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does not reflect what's being requested i think that there was a process uh a back and forth with

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the community that yielded the change where we wanted to shrink the restaurant and have more

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residential so that as part of this process of working with the community that's kind of where

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we landed so we um will certainly get you the yes so so what you need to do so then so because

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there is a change in the number of dwelling units um and the way this property is zoned you have to

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a certain amount of lot area per dwelling unit so l and i have to look at that and determine

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if that can occur by right or if that needs a variance as well so we will need you to submit

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a letter requesting to amend the refusal to reflect that and have l and i review the the

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new proposal so and then once we receive that we can vote on it we don't need to have a resumption

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hearings we presented every everything's been presented today but we will need an amended

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refusal um otherwise your client will not if this is a um if you're if this is granted your client

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will not get what they're asking for based on the current we don't anticipate a problem for the

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you what for square footage but uh i understand that but yeah ellen i'll have to review that yeah

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questions from the virtual audience chair we have a hand up from bob everett he's being promoted to

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panelists i'm mr everett yeah i'm here i knew you are you always there could you please state your

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name and spell for the stenographer sure first name robert last name everett e-v-e-r-e-t-t

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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i do please proceed obviously our letter we were in support of this project yep and if i recall

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the original refusal only mentioned the rear yard and the maximum area and we noticed since it was

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And we noticed since it was in the overlay, Elvin and I, as they seem to be doing in this area a lot, didn't include the special exception for eat-in dining.

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in the overlay elvin i as they seem to be doing

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So they had to go back and get it updated.

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And that's what we're looking at now.

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Okay.

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All right.

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And you're totally in favor.

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We appreciate you staying on the phone and getting on the line.

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Thank you, sir.

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Can I just add that Ms. Emerson or someone mentioned about takeout.

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it's the same refusal as the eat and dining but on other refusals or referrals we've gotten they've

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listed them both back to back online that if they're going to be looking and updating they

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might want to add that in if it's if it's primarily sit down with like accessory takeout essentially

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it doesn't need to have that on there but if the use if it really has two distinct uses then l and

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i will sometimes put both sit down and take out on the refusal um but if this has if this has a

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bunch of seating in it which i believe it from what i recall looking at this last night there's

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a bunch of seating then the l and i probably would classify it as a sit down restaurant and there can

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be accessory takeout it's not a problem all right thanks that helps you some other pieces planning

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commission michael gall with the philadelphia city planning commission the comprehensive plan

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recommends no change to the existing CMX2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location.

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The proposed use of this property as a sit-down restaurant is consistent with adjacent uses on

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the same block face and would cause no undue detriment beyond what might otherwise be expected.

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However, there is no unique circumstance or physical condition of the property that would

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prevent it from being used in compliance with the zoning code's dimensional standards.

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The proposal here would leave no rear yard space and would cover nearly the entire lot.

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Therefore, the City Planning Commission recommends the board grant the special exception for sit-down

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restaurant use in the nca overlay but recommends that the board deny the requested dimensional

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variances for maximum occupied lot area and minimum rear yard depth go ahead chair if i may

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we're not changing the footprint the the the lot coverage and the distance from the rear lot line

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is the same today tomorrow 20 years ago we're simply adding an addition above the party exists

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okay so we're going to hold the vote on this and hillary we're not going to set a date we'll wait

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do we hear is that correct as soon as we get the amended refusal then we can vote we'll get a hold

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of you and we'll vote on that okay um thank you very much for you put a lot long time in here

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today we appreciate it um is there anyone in the audience whose case has not been called

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no hands at this time chair and and i want to thank the staff for staying late we don't usually

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stay this late but i didn't have the heart to tell you we're going to schedule you to 2 o'clock

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I appreciate it.

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Thanks.

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Thank you.

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good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing today's meeting of the

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philadelphia zoning board of adjustment with me is our vice chair tenetta graham present mr

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chairman our secretary shellel gaston president mr chairman board member michael johns president

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mr chairman board member taiwan president mr chairman also here is our attorney hillary emerson

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our zb zba director in haggerty and our board administrator lakeisha dandy this hearing has

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been recorded and will be posted on the zba website by participating you agree to be recorded

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This is an in-person meeting with remote participation. Whether in person or in Zoom, if you are called to speak, please stand, state, and spell your name so that all can hear you, including our court reporter.

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To enter an appearance, indicate the property address where you registered for Zoom, speak with a staff member, call the ZBA office by the end of business tomorrow,

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call 215-680-2429 and provide your name email and the address of the appealed case

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remote participation raise your virtual hand when directed so we can call on you to speak when you

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so we can call on you to speak. When you, when we are, when you are called upon,

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just click the join the panelists, join as a panelist button. Use the Q&A only for

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procedural questions, do not comment on cases.

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If you are joining by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

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In-person participation. If testifying, get close to the microphone so that all attendees

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and the court reporter can hear you. No talking, eating, or drinking during the hearings.

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Aggressive behavior will not be tolerated. In an emergency, follow the staff instructions

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the main exit is through the doors at the rear the nearest stairwell is to the left

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if we evacuate go to love park across art street please remain here so that we can

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count forever so let's look at our schedule for this afternoon

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number one mi 2025 006 261 1135 to 43 south broad street that case has been withdrawn

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number three

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MI-2025-007-792-6048 Baltimore Avenue.

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That case is being continued until 7-29-26 at 2 p.m.

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number seven

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mi2026 0001986 242 2401 north dover street that case has continued until 7 29 26 at 2 p.m

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And number eight, MI 2026-000200-2416 North Dover Street.

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That case is continued until 7-29-26 at 2 p.m.

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Are there any other requests for continuances?

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we're going to go to our add-on list

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oh thank you mi 2025 006 848 226 35 north 24 street

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i vote yes with proviso maximum two dwelling units no household living in the basement

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interior trash storage michael johns my vote is yes with proviso

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cheryl gaston my vote is yes with provisos tenetta graham my vote is yes with provisos

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thia winn my vote is yes we provide

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we're going to go to our list here

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number two mi 2025 006 372 434 dickison street isaac slepner is the attorney

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good afternoon mr chairman take a seat thank you could you please state your name and spell for

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the stenographer yes my name is isaac i is in india s is in sam double a is in alpha c is in

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charlie my last name is slepner s is in sam l is in larry e is in elvis p is in peter n is in norman

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e is in elvis r is in robert you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but

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the truth yes i do could you identify your client a relationship to the property my clients are

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joshua and emily punnings they are the property owners i am counsel of the property owners and

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they are here to adopt my testimony eventually. Dickinson Square, RCO 10-8 in opposition,

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and Councilman Squilla has written a letter of opposition. Vice Chair has a few questions for

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you. Sure. Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of

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this hearing? I have, other than a few that were just provided to me yesterday, but largely yes.

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Largely, yes.

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Okay. Thank you. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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And do you waive the read another refusal and stipulate to us accuracy?

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Yes, I do.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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You can share your screen and proceed with your case.

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All right.

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Here we go.

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So, I'm going to share my screen.

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Am I a panelist yet?

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I think that's the first part.

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No.

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Oh, there it is.

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Thanks for your patience.

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okay um thank you chair members of the board uh right now i'm presenting the table of contents of

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um our exhibit and witness list uh that had been sent to the board prior to today um just kind of

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underscoring that there's a bit more to this than would immediately meet the eye yeah we have all

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your paperwork everything okay um exhibit two is our notice of refusal which we just stipulated

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to exhibit three is the application of appeal that was prepared and filed by my client's original

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counsel who is not me uh this actually is part of the hardship that they face in um leading up to

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getting this uh zoning variance their initial counsel however did um very astutely point out

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that the hardship at the property, they are seeking to a variance for a parking space at

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the front of their property. They live at 434 Dickinson Street, which is a mid-block row.

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And in RSA 5, parking is only allowed where it's accessed by a side or rear drive.

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They purchased the house. The house does not have access from the side or rear. The very design of

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the house is the hardship. However, when they purchased the house, they also purchased it

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under assurance from a realtor that this would be a simple process. And in fact, you'll see in

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my materials, there's a history of cars parking there prior to my clients. My clients do not park

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there, but I will show you examples of cars parked there. In any event, this is the initial

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application for appeal um that's our our item two uh item three is the deed in favor of my

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clients um showing it was recorded in november of 2024 i can make that a little larger for everybody

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Okay. Item five shows that they have a zero tax balance. I was not able to generate the document from this site, but I did print out their tax history.

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um so the next item is the original letter from their initial counsel to the neighbors uh dated

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10 30 25 inviting them to an rco meeting on 11 18 25 and followed by the certificate of mailing

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um with regard to that letter in october then there was a letter uh to the board of november

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19th of 25 and a vote tally. And at that vote, back in November of last year, there was a

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bit more of opposition. It looks like the total vote was 9 to 3. After that point, their

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council did not appear with them at the RCO meeting in November, and we're not entirely

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sure what happened there but they eventually hired me and I entered my appearance that's item

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I think it's item nine I entered my appearance initially by email on January 30th of this year

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and I also sent a letter by email to Mr. Hegarty and Ms. Emerson on 410 of this year I sent out a

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new letter to the neighbors. The RCO was gracious enough to sympathize with my clients and understand

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that they had had issues with their counsel in the past and hosted a new RCO meeting. So I

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wrote a letter dated April 10th of this year inviting everyone to an RCO meeting to be held

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on April 21st. This is the certificate of mailing. It's many pages long because Dickinson Square is a

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pretty dense neighborhood so as

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So as part of my client's attempt to get this curb cut and parking spot zoned, they went ahead and got pre-approval from the streets department, which they obtained in May of 2025.

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That is our item number 13.

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they also have a contract with PICO to eventually build a new telephone pole about five feet

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eastward on Dickinson Street sidewalk that will eventually move all of the utilities and I

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actually have our structural engineer here to explain our plan this is a copy of the zoning

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plan, and as you'll see, I'll kind of call out a few different pieces of it here.

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So over here, this is where the telephone pole currently stands, and that would not

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allow access once a curb cut would be built.

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The telephone pole would be moved about five feet over here, which is a breezeway door

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between 432 their neighbor their immediate neighbor 432 and 434 and down here is an inset of

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the grading and slope and integration into the sidewalk of what the curb cut would be and i will

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call our civil engineer jake sheridan of aqua economics to testify a little bit more to that

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now photos this is a close-up taken uh on 415 of this year of the zoning poster it's not orange

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in this case it was white posted by their front door this is a bit more of a wide shot as you can

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see this paved area was here they purchased the house with this paved area here and that is posted

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at their front door this brick wall next to them you'll see in a minute this brick wall next to

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them is the sidewall of this single story front loading garage which is uh 436 dickinson um and

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this is a side-by-side view of the properties this is a view from across the street where you can see

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our property 434 436 and the telephone pole that is sort of obstructing where a curb cut otherwise

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would go um following that that's a view dickinson street looking towards fourth street

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and this is a view looking towards fifth street um 436 is the garage here this is a coffee shop

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and the corner of fifth street now as i mentioned my clients purchased the house

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under the assurance of a realtor that they were going to be able to park a car there

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This Zillow ad shows a car park there.

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That is not my client's car.

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The Zillow ad was what they had found when they were originally shopping for their house,

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and that car probably belonged to the prior owner of the property.

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Here's another view, another Zillow shot of that.

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this is the letter um that the board received more recently in the past weeks uh from dickinson

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square west civic uh i would state that the letter uses the word overwhelmingly and i don't think

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that a two vote margin really would consist of a an overwhelming opposition there there was

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opposition um the total vote was uh eight to seven in opposition of the general um population of the

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rco and two to one of the board so that's um a lot slimmer of a margin than then probably should be

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considered overwhelming in addition uh my clients had originally um with with the assistance of

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their prior council uh they took it upon themselves to have a number of their neighbors sign letters

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in support including their neighbor at 432 dickinson which is the house that immediately

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adjoins their house and the property in front of which the uh utility pole the new utility

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pole would be placed uh this is a letter from the resident at 432 dickinson from their neighbor at

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430 dickinson uh a letter from their neighbor you we have remember i told you we have all your

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paperwork understood so you don't have to go over everything understood um with that i would like to

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uh call my clients to adopt my testimony josh emily um please

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no i don't

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Hi, take a seat, sir.

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hi could you please okay all right

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Hi, could you please?

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Okay, all right.

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all right why don't you pull the microphone close to you sir over here why don't you you

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Come over here.

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All right.

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can sit there by yourself that's it hi could you please state your name and spell it for the

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not refer joshua cunnings do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the

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truth yes counsel um good morning uh josh did you hear all the testimony and see all the documentary

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evidence that i introduced to the board just now yes and is all of that testimony and all of those

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documents are they true and correct to the best of your knowledge yes and would you adopt that

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testimony as though you had given it yourself yes thank you is that your case or do you have other

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witnesses i do have some further witnesses okay why don't you go back and sit down and if we have

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any questions for you we'll bring you back so your other witnesses are going to be um my uh i have

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one witness um jake sheridan he is our structural engineer i wanted him to give a bit more of

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explanation of exactly the size and shape uh and that this would take up no more than one

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uh parking space why don't you bring him up is he here or he is he's on the zoom okay

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what's his name again jake sheridan mr sheridan

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Good afternoon, Chair. This is Jason Hand. I'll be your calls for this session.

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Jake Sheridan should be welcome, sir. Jake Sheridan should be coming back in shortly.

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Sure.

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And my...

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Well, we'll get him next. Let's take him to Sheridan.

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I believe that there are some other of my client's neighbors out there,

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and at this point I would invite them to raise their hands,

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either whether they're in the room or out on the Zoom, to testify.

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Well, here's the thing. This is your clients. I will call when people can put their hands up. Okay. In other words, the process would be your witness, right? Understood. We'll go to the board, our lawyer, and then we'll go to the audience. Understood. Okay. All right.

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mr sheridan yes can you guys hear me i can sir could you please state your name

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it's spelled for the stenographer my name is jacob sheridan j-a-c-o-b-s-h-e-r-i-d-a-n

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do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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that's correct counsel uh jake good morning um good afternoon rather did you draw up the plans

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that i am about to pull up right here that's correct i don't uh here we go and jake you can

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see my screen correct yes so why don't you um take the board through describe uh the dimensions of

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where the curb cut would be and can you give them a little bit of background about moving this

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telephone pole? So pretty much the curb cut is designed to be completely within the property

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owner's frontage as well as meeting all of the streets department minimum standards as far as

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the apron depth and side flares as well as well as trying to minimally you know impact the relocation

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of the pico telephone pole by trying to adhere to the minimum distance of the offset from the

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proposed apron that you can see on the plan okay okay and this was um these plans were given

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pre-approval by streets department yeah yeah the streets department signed off on the the zoning

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level aspect of the plan and you know building permit level submission and and approval would

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be subsequent to a potential um granting of the variance okay and would how many parking spaces

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uh length um does this space uh does this curb cut take up uh basically less than one a typical

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parallel parking parking space is anywhere between 20 to 22 feet per city standards and this curb cut

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is how long again uh the curb cut itself is 12 and a half feet plus a two foot and one and a half

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foot flares so so in in total in total yes yes 15 feet

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okay um and you've personally visited the site uh you took your photos and and evaluated it

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personally visited the site uh you took your photos and and evaluated it prior to drawing

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up these plans that's correct okay and these are photos that you took um looking east and

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west on dickinson and showing that telephone pole that are on the bottom of your plan set

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that's correct okay um i have nothing further for mr sheridan right now if we need him we'll call

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him back so please keep him available who's your next witness um i believe that there are

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some supporters out on the zoom i don't have the supporters they're going to have an opportunity

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when i call okay so that's your case uh that that's our case in chief yes questions from the

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board yeah i have a question you mentioned that the the uh residents of the property at 432

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didn't have a problem, but do you have anything from the actual owner of 432?

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I have a letter from one of the residents of 432. I am not sure whether that is a tenant or

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an owner. However, I would like to know whether or not the owner of that property, I understand

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tenants may not have an issue, but quite frankly, if I was the owner of the property next door,

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would not want to have a telephone pole moved from the house in front next door to me in front of mine

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so so that's my question did the is this does do you have something from the owner of that property

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not a res not a tenant i an owner my clients may be better uh equipped to answer that question

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um i can recall my client they do not they're shaking their head no okay thank you i guess

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they do not okay all right all the questions yes um i have a question about the overall site plan

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for the property sure um it looks like this does not have a backyard or rear yard is that correct

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it does not to my knowledge have a backyard that's accessible from the street so typically

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when houses with this design are designed this way it's because the front yard is supposed to replace

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the fact that the rear yard doesn't exist and so i just want to be clear that like what's being

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proposed is to take the only open space on this lot and to replace it with a non-standard parking

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space um okay should i i again i can have my clients uh come to testify about the kind of

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dimensions and uh features of their house i i do want to say the parking space is a standard

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size parking space it isn't the they have 18 18 by eight and a half feet of

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like availability within that front yard to the property line so that's not including any

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like i mean typically they're not going to park their car exactly on the property line and also

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that's a standard car i think my concern is that like by making this a parking space like

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your clients might not live here forever this they're the only tenants that i'm assuming have

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ever lived in this house in this format based on just property data and if anybody that comes

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behind them has a bigger car which happens right there there are large format cars it would not

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fit in that spot it would overhang onto the sidewalk which is what the current drawing is

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actually showing the the current drawing is showing the the stamp that what we have to model

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for the streets department is a 19 foot long vehicle which is equivalent to like an like a

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ford f-250 pickup truck with an extended cab the regular size suv but yes and it's regular size

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suvs are typically between 15 to 17 feet sure but we're at this point we're mincing words because

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we're talking about a foot i'm not like gonna belabor it but i think my issue is that like

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we're talking about taking up the space all the way up to the actual facade and even in typically

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there's some sort of barrier that keeps

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the car from hitting the wall. Okay.

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Understood. Let me ask you the question. How many

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people in the audience are here

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relative to this case?

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Put your hand up. Okay.

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So I think what I want to do is

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look, when we get

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to this point, each person can get two

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minutes, but what I wish you would do is come

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up, mention

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council do you have any comments when not okay so what i'm what i'm going to do is we're going to

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bring the people up who want to testify and we'll give them you know if you would um you're either

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for the project or against okay because i think i know where most of the people here as i've just

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been watching you shake your heads the whole time so um first person why don't we come up

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and if you would just state your name is spelled for the stenographer

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and if you would

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just state your name

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and spell for this

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to not

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good afternoon sir sir please sit down sure you can um could you please state your name

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is spelled for the doctor donald mccrone m-c-c-r-o-n-e can you get a little closer to the can you get a

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little closer to the mic, please. Donald McCrone. M-C-C-R-O-N-E. Right. Do you swear or affirm to

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tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes. Sir, are you a neighbor? I am. Are you

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in favor of this project or against? I am not. You're against. I'm not. I'm against. Okay. All

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right. You know, it's already been sort of brought up, but that, you know, it is a walkable

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neighborhood a uh another curb cut um reduces safety um you know uh okay as is the morning

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counselor do you have any questions to this witness um sir so

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have you personally seen anyone hit by a car uh coming out of a curb cut on a

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mid-block property, say, out of 436? Dickinson?

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Personally, no. Okay. Thank you. And yet,

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you know, one does see... We're going to bring

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the next person up. We know where you... We understand where you stand. Okay? Thank you very much.

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Thank you. Good afternoon.

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Hi. Could you please state your name and spell it for the sonographer?

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Lisa Miller, M-I-L-L-E-R. Right. Do you swear

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referring to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor i am are

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you in favor of this project you're against i'm against thank you for is there anything you could

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offer real quick well i i have been nearly hit by cars coming out of driveways that are in the

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middle of block in this neighborhood i walk everywhere and there's a reason we have zoning

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uh ordinances and um as bad as i feel for my neighbors i don't think this is uh enough to

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to justify a variance thank you counsel do you have what do you wait you have a question i don't

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have any questions next person please

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there you go

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get that mic real close to you if you could good afternoon good afternoon could you please state

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your name and spell it for the stenographer geraldine johnson spell the whole name yeah

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g-r-a-l-d-i-n-e johnson j-o-h-n-s-o-n if you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

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nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor oh 40 years for only 40 years okay 40 and some plus

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hold on um are you for this project or against against is there anything you can offer that you

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haven't heard uh besides the gentleman that was before me about safety and also all the people on

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block have a problem with parking okay and i am not a driver but i sympathize with those that do

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drive and they want a parking spot too okay all right do you have any questions council

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i i don't have any questions thank you very much for coming down next person please

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we're not we're not in a hurry

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pull that chair up come right up

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we'll put that break down for you i know i could you please state your name and spell but by the

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way good afternoon good afternoon could you uh state your name and spell for the stenographer

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judy mays j-u-d-y-m-a-y-s right do you swear or firm to tell the truth told truth nothing but

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truth yes are you for or against this project yes all right is there anything you can offer

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that you haven't heard nothing but thank you very much council nothing thank you next person

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good afternoon there you go nice all right pull that mic closely if you can my name is

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katherine deangelis that's k-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-e that's d-e capital a-n-g-e-l-i-s do you swear

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a firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do are you in favor of this

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project or against i'm against it is there anything you can add that you haven't heard

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uh yes go ahead um i own a property uh one there's a property next to them and then i own the next

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uh yes go ahead um i own a property uh

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property after that and it's a six unit apartment building which generates a lot of traffic um

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their property or where they want to place the curb cut um it actually used to be a garden

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um it was a full frontal garden in this house but where they want to place their car

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um is about 50 feet from the corner which is a double stop sign and it's a highly trafficked

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corner at fifth and dickinson um so there's no way they either have to pull into this spot or

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back into it they're going to cause um confusion with drivers coming there is a lot of traffic

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at that intersection right and it's very close to it all right thank you do you have any questions

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counsel ma'am do you drive yes okay yes and have have you experienced any of this confusion that

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you describe and are talking about yes okay um so you have

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how can you be aware or sure that everyone else is as confused as you are

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i can't be i can't speak for someone else obviously it's a personal matter it's when

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you pull up to a stop sign and you're making a left or you're coming straight through you either

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have clear passage or you don't you have to wait for a car that's backing out which is dangerous

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we also have kirkbride school in the neighborhood and these kids walk

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on the pavement every single day thank you very much you're welcome next person

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afternoon afternoon okay why don't we get that microphone nice and close here so

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so we've heard a lot so first of all state your name and spell for the sonographer

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my name is

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why don't you spell your last name

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all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

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now we've heard a lot from all the other people what i want to know are you for this or against

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and your neighbor

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all right council do you have any questions no thank you very much for coming

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go ahead go ahead good thanks um the first is when that property

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It was built. There was a gate in front of it.

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Secured both sides.

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Okay.

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No, I'm putting this back.

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All right. Go ahead.

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My understanding is, and I'd like the owners to testify under oath

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Okay. Right. Thank you very much for coming down and sitting here. Next person, please.

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Why don't we pick that up?

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Name is Wanda Scott.

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wanda could you spell your name for the court's note thanks well s-c-o-t-t right do you swear

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or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but truth i do and you were a neighbor yes okay

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are you for or against yes thank you the oldest continuous living person on that block so i've

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seen that block change how many how many years i want to hear how many years but you were probably

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like 20 years 20 years old when you moved there right okay no i was 15. oh that's right still

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there so i'm 50 something years oh okay that's great so i've seen that and one of the pictures

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that the lawyer showed where he showed the cars like in the driveway that was the builder that

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was not a previous owner that was the builder so i don't think he you know like said that the builder

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They were improperly parked in that lot because they were doing work on that, the house.

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because they were doing work on that the house thank you counsel you have any questions

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Thank you. Councilor, you have any questions?

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ma'am do you have any any person please any other evidence to that it's the builder other than

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your claim no okay i got it i got it sorry hi could you please state your name good afternoon

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first could you please state your name and spell it for us yes laura mullen l-a-u-r-a-m-u-l-l-i-n

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth to nothing but the truth i do are you for

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or against against okay is there anything else i mean we've had a lot so we're trying to yeah

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really well explained but the neighborhood is great the street is great and uh i appreciate

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your ability to have a speaker oh thank you is there anyone else is there anyone in the virtual

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audience yes chair i have a hand up from a jack zhao i will allow them to speak okay

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yes hi jack do you uh could you please name and state your name and spell freak stenographer

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my name is jack last name z-h-a-o i'm the uh you know i'm the part you know uh partner of the

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investment that falls hold on hold on hold on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth

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nothing but the truth um yes are you a are you a neighbor yes all right could you turn your

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video on oh yes let me promote let me promote them for us this is

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it should be coming back in shortly okay what did i say stay as the attending okay all right sir

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can you hear can you see me

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waiting for your video all right you have to accept that promotion

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excuse me mr chair oh okay hi jack are you a neighbor

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i'm sorry mr chair is coming back in now okay

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yes uh i'm the neighbor and i uh against it you're against the two thank you thank you very

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much council you have any questions for that uh are you a neighbor within 250 feet no i'm

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the neighbor and uh part of the neighbor next door at 432 432 dickinson 432 dickinson i never

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sign any paper okay all right thank you anyone else in the virtual audience yes chair i have

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a hand up from chat on price i will go ahead no time how many more hands do you have up just four

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okay

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hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer they're coming back in short

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hi i'm jaclyn price hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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Jacqueline, J-A-C-L-Y-N, last name Price, P-R-I-C-E.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Jacqueline, are you a neighbor?

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Yes.

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Are you for or against this project?

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For this project.

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Okay.

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Counsel, do you have any questions?

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Yes.

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Jacqueline, what way would this benefit the block in the neighborhood in your estimation?

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so i mean i i think it would benefit it in terms of getting cars off the street a lot of times

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sometimes there's cars that parked on the curb and i feel like that's also a hazard too in terms of

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walking down the street okay thank you thank you very much next hand please

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yes and a hand up from sunbeat padanik i'll promote them they should be coming back in shortly

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yes uh yes hello can you hear me sir could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer uh yes uh sam that is spelled s-a-m as in mary b as in boy i t as in tom

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last name is pat naik p as in paul a t as in tom t as in tom a n as in nancy a-i-k

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth whole truth nothing but the truth

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yes are you a neighbor yes are you in favor or against uh i'm in favor okay uh is there anything

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you get off that you haven't heard uh no i think uh all right the last person mentioned what i was

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No, I think the last person mentioned what I was going to say.

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Councilor, do you have any questions?

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Counselor, do you have any questions for this person?

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Not at this time.

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All right.

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Next hand, please.

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Yes, a hand up from Alicia.

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I will promote them and it should be coming back in shortly.

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What do you have?

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One more hand after that, Nate?

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Yes.

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Yes, sir.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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hi can you hear me i can could you please state your name and spell your stenographer

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sure my name is haley shah first name is h-e-l-y last name shot s-h-a-h i am a neighbor and i am

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in favor okay well don't let me swear you in first do you swear or affirm tell truth told

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truth nothing but the truth yes you're in favor can you offer anything that hasn't been said

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no thank you thank you next hand yes last hand is a jill gallagher i will promote them they

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be coming back in shortly mr chair okay

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Jill yes hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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sure hi jill j-i-l-l gallagher g-a

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you're breaking up jill

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jill we lost you

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okay um

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jill okay we're gonna have to be is there any more hands up

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yeah one more by uh kate mcdonald that's the last hand

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that should be coming back in shortly

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kate could you please state your hand name and spell it for the stenographer

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sure jill gallagher g-a-l-l-a-g-a-g-a-g-r all right do you swear or firm to tell the truth

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told truth nothing but the truth miss gallagher

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i do um are you in favor of this project or against

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i'm against it okay is there anything you did offer that hasn't already been said

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no counselor you have any questions jill i know do you have any more hands

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yeah i had one more mcdonald kate please kate mcdonald

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good afternoon could you please hi good afternoon could you please state your name and spell for

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the stenographer my name is kate mcdonald spelled k-a-t-e-m-a-c-d-o-n-a-l-d do you swear or affirm

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tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor yes are you in favor or

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against i'm in favor all right thank you very much is there anything you could offer that hasn't

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already been said uh not at this time thank you all right thank you very much planning commission

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amy boyd with the planning commission amyboid do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

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whole truth nothing but the truth i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no

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change in zoning at this location from the existing rsa 5 residential single family

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the appellant has not shown that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances

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that would prevent the property from being used in conformity with the zoning code

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the planning commission recommends that the board deny their requested variance for parking

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thank you mi2025-006-372-434 dickinson street i vote no michael johns my vote is no

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cheryl gaston my vote is no tenetta graham my vote is no iowen my vote is no um thank you for

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everyone who participated um um on both sides of this we appreciate everybody coming down thank

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you counsel thank you board all right number four mi 2025 007 803 934 tasker street gabriel fellis

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is the attorney

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good afternoon sure hi one minute council we're trying to clear a room here no problem

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hi one morning council we're trying to clear a room here no problem

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hi council could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer

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my name is gabriel fellis g-a-b-r-i-e-l last name is fellas it's f as in frank e-l-l-u-s as in sam

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right do you swear we're referring to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

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yes council i see there's a letter of support from east pashonka avenue um vote was 10 to 3.

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yeah so you provided a petition signed by eight people 12 of which from the block

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our vice chair has a few questions for you good afternoon have you submitted your documents and

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exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes and do you waive the reading of the refusal

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and stipulate to its accuracy i do all right thank you you can share your screen and proceed

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okay do i see the title page here yes great thank you so we're here today seeking approval

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for use of the property for a two-family household living.

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The property in its current condition is a three-story single-family home

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in the RSA 5 zoning district, which expressly prohibits two families.

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This application is not proposing any exterior alterations or construction.

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As we'll see, the planned interior renovations generally just propose

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splitting up the current single-family layout into two separate units

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by creating two separate entrances for each unit.

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So this is the refusal issued by L&I for the use of two-family household living.

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Again, two families are expressly prohibited in the RSA 5 Zoning District.

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These are our proposed type plans.

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The proposed change will have a one-bedroom unit that will take up the basement and first floor,

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and then a two-bedroom unit that will take up the second and third floors.

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So the basement will be used exclusively for storage,

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for laundry and a mechanical room, no proposed basement living.

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The bathroom in the basement is already in its existing proposed condition.

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So this is the first floor.

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Here's where you'll see the main change in the layout.

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The proposed plans will add a hallway here that will separate the entrances

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that lead to the stairs to the second and third floor two-bedroom unit,

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while the first floor tenant can enter through this hallway here.

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some more site plans here that you already have so here we have a link to a vimeo walk through

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the property and its current condition so the board can get a sense of the current configuration

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of the property but we also have some interior photos included next so here is the front of the

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property and this is the entrance way that will eventually be the common entrance way for the

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two tenants again the proposed change will extend the entrance way to allow for two entrances

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one will go to the first floor unit and the other will lead to the stairs to the unit that will take

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up the second and third force so this here are the stairs that will lead to the upstairs unit

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there's some more interior photos of the property here

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so this is the basement area again the basement will continue to be used exclusively for storage

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laundry and mechanicals with no proposed living space

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this is the back patio that the downstairs unit will have access to

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here we have some aerial views of 934 tasker in relation to the other properties

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now here we have our zoning map so as i mentioned previously even though the block is primarily

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zoned RSA 5. Uses in multifamily is actually quite common on the block. There's no way out

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of character with the surrounding area. We included lists here nearby properties that have

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been previously been granted use variances and rental licenses for multifamily household use

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with the same RSA 5 zoning designation. As you can see here, many properties on the immediate

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block and surrounding blocks have been granted variances for multifamilies in the past. In some

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cases property have been granted use for for more than two residential living units with the same

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total square footage or in some cases less square footage per unit i'm now turning to our community

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outreach efforts uh this is the notification letter that our office sent out on february 17th

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in anticipation of our meeting with the east passion crossing civic association

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We know that the community on March 9th received their unanimous letter of support, three actually abstained from the vote.

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We know that the community on March 9th, where we see

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Ms. McCarthy also spoke with neighbors before that meeting. She gathered 18 signatures of support from them.

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Here we have the deed to the property, showing Ms. McCarthy taking title to 934 Tasker in November of 2015.

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here we have our application for appeal and our project information form

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here we have pictures of the zba notification posters notifying neighbors of our here and here

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today this is our statement of real estate tax compliance and here we have our certificates of

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mailing uh for the rco meeting um that we sent out to neighbors on february 17th

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so uh with that i'd like to bring my client uh miss kellyan mccarthy she's in the virtual

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audience uh i'll enter my testimony and answer any questions that the board sure

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Thank you.

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are you on she should be on that email

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oh okay

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Kelly Ann

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here she is

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yeah she is right here

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hi Kelly could you unmute please

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kelly mccoffee please unmute

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here you go kelly

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you're unmuted you should be able to speak

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Kelly?

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Hello?

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Hi, yes.

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Kelly, could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer?

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Kelly Ann McCarthy.

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K-E-L-L-I-A-N-N-E.

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McCarthy, M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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If possible, could you turn your video on?

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okay wow all right council one why don't we start her i mean the video doesn't seem to be working

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but see uh kelly have you had my testimony today i have and uh was it true and correct to the best

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of your knowledge it was and would you adopt it as if it were your own i would great uh any questions

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for the questions from the board go back to the plans i'm sorry no i just want to see the plans

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we we kind of went through the plans up again and i was asking for trash for both units

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kellyanne do you want to speak to the trash situation

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um we plan on keeping the trash and enclosed receptacle out front

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i plan to stay in the house so i will handle trash uh night um putting it out for collection

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is there a space in the rear where you can store the trash instead of out front until trash day

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for the first level yes but not for upstairs okay so is there a place in this uh the second

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level where you can have interior trash storage until uh yes would you be amenable to that

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i would okay thank you and the preference would be not having the first floor trash in the front

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and you can throw it in the rear

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until trash day. That would be great.

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Yes.

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That's what we do.

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Michael?

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Yeah, I just wanted this. He kind of went through the

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plans so quickly. I didn't get a

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chance to kind of see them.

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Yeah, sorry about that. Which page did you want to see?

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No, I see the first floor plan.

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Good doesn't

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have access to our bedroom

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access to our bedroom because the backyard was the second floor so you go upstairs and then what happens

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because the backyard

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was the second floor.

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how come the stairs on the other side of the house now am i missing something

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oh it should be flipped okay yeah

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okay okay so the second and third floor is one unit correct correct okay

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And board member Graham already mentioned about the interior storage for trash and a vented closet and no storage or trash out front, but in the rear for the first floor unit.

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Okay. All right. Thank you.

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Is there access to the roof?

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no

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so that's not a spiral staircase

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on that third floor plane

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in the corner

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it's a slight spiral staircase

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from the second to the third floor

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and then with the staircase

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going down because there's two staircases

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shown side by side

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where does the other staircase go

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one from the first floor to the second

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and then there's second to third

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Got it. So the spirals from the second and third. Understood. Yes. And the second floor unit, there's no washer or dryer? Not currently. Okay. And is there, do you think that you might put one in the future? Definitely. Okay. And then my second question is about the second and third floor units access to utilities. Are you planning to live on the first floor? Yes.

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and then is it all electric uh electric and gas electric and gas okay so what is the plan for uh

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the second floor and third floor unit if they need to access the pico and the pgw meters in the future

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well i i will be in the first floor unit i plan to stay in the house so

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I can I can assist with that at any time okay and then I think my last question is really about

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like what's your what's driving your decision to want to do this well I would I would love to stay

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in my neighborhood so doing this will allow me to offset the cost of maintaining my house and

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give me some flexibility to stay here as I get older okay thank you I have no further questions

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all right other questions questions from our attorney no questions at this time

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questions or comments from the virtual audience chair i do not see any hands raised planning

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commission you mean what oh well come on up

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there you go hi my name is mary stump and they are down and relax sit down and relax

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well we'll we'll watch you i'm gonna watch your purse when you talk i promise could you please

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state your name and spell for the stop my name is mary stump m-a-r-y-s-t-u-m-p-f do you swear

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or a firm that tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor

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i am not a neighbor but i had a question well i live on i live on um the 1200 block of balesworth

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street yeah sure that's fantastic i mean it's it's not immediately in that name it's a little

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farther away yeah i just had a question about the um the uh petition that was um circulated

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i didn't really get a chance to see a lot of the the addresses but i'm wondering are they

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residents they do they are those from owners are they just from tenants or people that just happened

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I think the owner gets it from the area right around so it could be you could have like I

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thought it went pretty fast but I wasn't sure if there were like maybe uh three signatures from

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one address I mean maybe not there's a lot of them but yeah but I don't know if those are just

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tenants or are they I don't know people that are residents and you live at 12th and Ellsworth I do

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that's a good distance away it is but yeah I just was curious because we had we had a doctor's

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office that was switched from RSA five to a commercial on the corner and you know they

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they did this petition and there were people that were just renters they didn't really own

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the property okay well thank you very much everybody has it okay so questions or comments

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will be the virtual planning commission that we do play the commission not yet

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any commission planning commission amy boy for the planning commission the

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comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning to the current RSA 5

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To the current RSA 5 residential single-family, the appellant has not shown that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformity with the zoning code.

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residential single-family the appellant has not shown that there are

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The Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the requested variance for two-family.

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So, MI 2025-007-803-934 Tashkar Street, I vote yes with proviso.

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first floor trash started stored in rear yard second floor start stored in unit

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michael johnson my vote is yes with provisos

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cheryl gaston my booty chest with provisos tenetta graham my vote is yes with provisos

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i went my vote is yes with provisos thank you thank you my 2025 007 849 1801 east huntington

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street and the two lawyers names we have is not they're not here so council just um

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could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer yes uh mr chair members of the

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board brett feldman 1835 market street philadelphia pennsylvania 19103 i represent the applicant um

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1801 Huntington, LLC, and it's Principal Jacob Roller, as well as the Legacy Culinary Group,

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and its Chief Strategy Officer, Natasha Stoffer.

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Hold on. Do you swear or affirm the tell-the-truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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And I see there's support from Kensington Neighbors Association and also non-opposition

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from Council Member Squilla. Our Vice Chair has a few questions for you.

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Good afternoon. Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance

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of this hearing? Yes, we did. Okay. And do you waive the reading out of refusal and stipulate

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to its accuracy? I do. All right. Thank you. You can share your screen and proceed with the case.

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I'll share one second.

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Again, Mr. Chair, Brett Feldman, I represent the applicant, property owner and the principal, Jacob Roller, as well as the tenant, Legacy Culinary Group and Strother Enterprises, passed up exhibits 1 through 13, which I'd ask to be incorporated into the record.

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they are great um what this is an application uh to convert uh this and i think we've got some

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boards uh that we use to the community group and i thought we would just bring them anyway today

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uh this is an amazing historic building uh this is uh from the uh kensington textile bank from 1909

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um it's it's been in the paper i think for the last couple years and articles about

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um what mr roller wants to do and what miss strother wants to do here and her family business

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but the idea is the two-story building the lower level is a we've already have approvals for a

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commissary kitchen which would support Strother Enterprises which is a leading Philadelphia

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food culinary group they as as Mr. Strother will will testify provide a lot of catering at the

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convention center and the airport and now at the Cobbs Creek Golf Facility they'll be using

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they'll finally have a permanent location for their cooking and culinary needs in a lower level.

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And then the first floor is this magnificent yet deteriorating event space that that's what we want

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to convert this into. You know, if you've been in Del Frisco's or Union Trust or any of those

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amazing old bank spaces, that's really what we're envisioning here. We went through the historical

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approval process. We did obtain historical approval for this, and now we're here for the

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first floor event facility. You see the exhibits here, and I'll just start going through these here.

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We have a great letter of support from the Preservation Alliance, Paul Stenke, Executive

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Director, who talks all about the history of the building and how this is really just a perfect

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adaptive reuse for such a building we went to the east kensington neighbors association

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We have a letter of unanimous support with provisos from the EKNA.

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we have a letter of unanimous support with provisos from the

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We had a lot of neighbors who came right from those immediate blocks.

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We discussed hours of operation and the valet parking arrangements and trash disposal.

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And you'll see that in our proviso letter, which we've agreed to.

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And that's the proviso letter there.

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But just getting to the property itself, here we are on Kensington Avenue, East Huntington

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and Harold, East Harold Street is on the other side.

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That's the building right there.

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The view from, I think it's from Huntington right there, this magnificent two-story building

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with the mezzanine and then another view of the building and then really the magnificence

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is really the interior of this building.

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Again, it's to marvel that it's still there.

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I think it's been empty, Jacob, how long?

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Since the 90s now?

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Since the 90s, this building has been empty and vacant.

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We plan to clean it up

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and really just let the magnificence of the interior

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and the windows speak for itself here.

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again just taking you through some of the interior pictures here's some of the exterior

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pictures historical and and then more more current we are we are that that's the posting pictures

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and we have been working to keep this as clean as possible you'll see this is some more recent

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pictures that we went out there working with the community to fence this area in to clean it to

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CLEAN IT UP. AND WE'VE BEEN, AGAIN, WORKING WITH ALL DIFFERENT CITY AGENCIES, AS YOU

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KNOW, ON THAT AREA. IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE. BUT REALLY WHAT IS EXCITED TO THE COMMUNITY

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IS THE IDEA OF BRINGING LIFE AND VITALITY TO THIS BUILDING, WHICH WE THINK WILL BE CRITICAL

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TO MAKING THIS IMMEDIATE LOCATION AS SAFE AND AS CLEAN AS POSSIBLE. JUST SOME REAL QUICK

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pictures here of how we supported it here is here is the floor plan and let me let me just I guess

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with the floor plan and Mr. I'm just gonna ask you now to just speak for a minute um sure could

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you please state your name and spell for the stenographer yes can you hear me yeah hello

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Mr. Chairman and Board. Hello, Mr. Chairman and Board. How are you? I'm good. My name is Natasha, N-A-T-A-S-H-A, Strother, S-T-R-O-T-H-E-R. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told the truth, nothing but the truth? Yes. Counsel? I think I mentioned already, but you are the Chief Strategy Officer for Strother Enterprises. I know you're always hesitant to talk about the family business and the history of the business,

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But if you could just give the board a quick overview of what, over the last, I guess it's 30 years now, 40 years now, your family business has done, and what types of lines of business.

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I know we've got the boards that have some of the logos and operations of what your family has done, but if you could just briefly.

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Thank you. Thank you, Brett.

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So Strather Enterprises, as it's pointed out on the board, we are a local business.

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We've been around for close to 40 years.

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We're a veteran-owned business, and we provide contract food services.

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We started as a catering company in the mid-80s, and I'm part of that third generation of this

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business.

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So we started as a catering company, and we transitioned into contract food services.

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And like Brett mentioned, we partner with some notable clients, whether it's the Pennsylvania

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Convention Center Authority.

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We've worked with most recently the Fittler Club at Cobb's Creek, the new Cobb's Creek

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Golf Course.

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We also own and operate several airport concessions here in the Philadelphia International Airport.

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So we operate two subway locations and a Southeast Asian brand called Wind Kitchen.

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We've partnered with Live Casino.

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So we've been doing contract food services and catering, like you've mentioned, for close

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to 40 years.

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we're all wherever we go we we make sure that we're committed to the community and part of our

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values and mission is to make sure we're empowering the community offering jobs and supporting

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development so they can move on in helping to create the next generation of food entrepreneurs

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so we would love to do that here in this community as well thank you and as i mentioned you're taking

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both the lower level and the first floor correct of the building correct yes and just briefly the

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lower level, which I've got the floor plan up here, this would be your commissary kitchen,

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correct? Correct. And you would be providing, this is where you'd be making the food that

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this is where you'd be making the food that would then continue to serve serve um serve the rest of

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would then continue to serve the rest.

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the business operations correct that's correct and then the first floor would be um uh in synergy

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with the commissary kitchen below would be an event assembly location correct that's correct

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and the idea would be to do life life cycle events there uh host host um non-profit events

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weddings, other events, correct? That's correct. Okay, great. So that's the lower level. There's

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trash storage down there, and that's where the kitchen is, and then there's a small mezzanine,

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and then the main floor here is where you saw those pictures with the interior. That's where

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the event space. Yes, yes. As far as occupancy, it's with tables. We understand it's around 130,

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130, 140, with standing. With some tables, it's more like 170, 180, roughly. That's what

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we've been told from the architects. We have building permits already for the commissary

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kitchen and some of the preparations on this floor here. And then we are in discussions

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with Temple, the hospital facility that's up there, regarding using one of their lots

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for our valet operations.

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We know...

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Is that Einstein Hospital?

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Episcopal, the old Episcopal?

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Episcopal up there, yeah,

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which is, I think, two blocks, Jacob, three blocks?

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Yeah, one block.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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We know we're going to need valet for special events

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on that first floor.

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Our customers are going to demand it.

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We talked to the community about that,

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so the valet would be on there in the front

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as well as delivery area.

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And that's really, you know, kind of the...

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The basement will handle all your operations.

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The food will go from there to all your operations.

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That's correct.

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Yeah, and then just, these are the boards

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I know that we have in the room here,

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but just, again...

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Is the second floor just a mezzanine looking down?

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Yeah, there's a small, what, 200 square feet,

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something like that?

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Yeah, it was an office.

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Yeah, it was an office right there.

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But that's really, you know,

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KIND OF THE OUTLINE OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO. AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN VETTED HEAVILY BY

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HISTORIC COMMISSION, THE COMMUNITY. THERE'S BEEN ARTICLES IN THE PAPER. I'M JUST BRINGING UP

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ONE OF THE ARTICLES. I THINK ONE OF THE ZONE BOI MEMBERS MIGHT EVEN BE QUOTED IN THAT ARTICLE.

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WE'RE FINALLY REALLY PLEASED TO NOW BE HERE IN FRONT OF THE BOARD TO BRING THIS,

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hopefully to to reality and to to get this going as soon as possible a question is from the board

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okay um deliveries and then uh you're going to be sending this food out how is that gonna work

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deliveries in terms of the raw materials to make the food and then um you know once you've made

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the food uh you're going to have a distribution system or what are you going to use for that

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so okay so for for uh to to actually service the second floor so we'll use the food i mean

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we'll use the commissary kitchen um that's in the basement to serve the food upstairs um

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if you and one of the drawings you'll see that there uh lifts that will allow you to you know

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bring the food from in from downstairs upstairs but also to receive the raw materials you'll see

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there's a delivery zone right there along uh kensington avenue there'll be a loading zone

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if i'm correct and then we'll load in right there on harold street there's a ramp there right

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yeah yes all right and for the uh cooking part of this the venting how is that going to be handled

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will you repeat your question i'm sorry venting oh for the food preparation area it's through the

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roof we we had we included that on the historic plans okay yeah and in terms of the designation

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of this property is it locally designated i think it's individually i believe it's individually

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designated historic yeah yes it is locally designated oh yes yes philadelphia historic yes

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okay and then um we already we already had to go to we already appeared before the historic commission

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to get the approvals um for this so is any of the interior designated at all just or is it just the

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exterior just the exterior right yeah yeah okay yeah all right okay thank you all the questions

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yes yep go ahead uh my question is about main

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yes my question is about main entrance because i know you have two entrances to the facility

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is the uh herald street or not herald street sorry is the kensington avenue entrance

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going to be the main entrance for any guests that come for an event

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it's the the huntington avenue side of the building the huntington avenue so the with the

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stairwell right with it you can see there's a there's an ada ramp along that side okay excuse

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me chairman i don't know what the gentleman just wanted oh i'm sorry could you please state your

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name and spell it for the stenographer jacob roller get a little closer mr roller jacob roller

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth whole truth nothing but the truth i do please proceed

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continue did did you have more questions specifically no i was just because i see this

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but your drawing currently is cut off so i was trying to understand like there are patrons coming

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in you've got i see the deliveries are on the herald streets are like at the corner on the

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street side yeah you can see we have sort of a a stair and a ramp there okay i see that to be all

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highlighted the different the different areas and then what's the plan for your employees because i

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understand that when you have guests you're going to have valet but what is your plan for and how

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many people do you anticipate are going to be at the facility like on a typical day so on a typical

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day um we on a typical day like full-time employees will be anywhere from like 10 to 12 employees

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and then because this is event driven you know we'll have a plan we we have a plan throughout

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Strother Enterprises would rehire and recruit initially it would be for the community and

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that would be the goal again they would be per diem employees like catering staff yeah and it

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is the idea that you're only going to be catering for events that are held at this facility are you

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going to be using this facility as a basis to do catering for other events outside of the facility

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um it could be for both it could be for on-site and off-site catering so that's the way we would

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look at it okay it's the idea really is to have this operating five or probably more than five

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days a week yeah so that's what i was wondering so like if we like if it's fully staffed you've

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got 12 people i think my question is given that there's no parking on site what's the plan for

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the parking for the people that are here every day for the um community or for your employees

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for the employees well they would either have to find uh parking i can't say that fully thought

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through that yeah but either they would find parking most of our employees currently um they

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commute to work um the disc or septa there are different ways to do it but we i can't i can't say

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that i'm going that far with it um but it is so very close to public transportation that's what

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we would encourage okay and where are the dumpsters or or what is the trash um removal plan

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so right there to the left of the building you'll see that gated area there will be

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uh trash receptacles and areas storage area um on the harold street side of the building

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there's a there's a trash storage room in the basement and then the trash comes up there and

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then it goes out oh yeah yeah it's going to be yeah there is if you look on the basement plan

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there's a whole trash storage uh room that's been um approved out for for that right questions or

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comments from our attorney no questions at this time questions or comments from the virtual audience

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planning commission just afterwards just um adopt my testimony well sorry go ahead okay but

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mitasha you you heard my testimony and was it true and accurate and do you adopt it as your own great

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and then jacob

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I also adopt your testimony, Brad, and I just wanted to point out, you know, since we are here for hardship, that, you know, this is a very unique building, very difficult to reuse, not easily adaptable into, you know, residential uses or other more conventional uses.

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You know, this is a very special space, and, you know, to use it for events is something that has proven successful in past adaptive reuse situations here in Philadelphia.

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And, you know, we would greatly appreciate the relief here.

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And as you said, it's been empty now for decades.

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35 years?

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Plus, at least, yeah.

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It was used as a bank from 1909 until sometime in the 80s or 90s, and it's been vacant ever since.

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It has not shown to be possible to reuse it in other manners.

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you know possible to reuse it in in other manners planning commission here i'm sorry

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to interrupt this is ian haggarty we do appear to have two remote participants who have their hands

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raised i'm going to promote elige crawley to panelists now all right

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i could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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Hello. Hello. Can I be here? Okay. I most certainly could you please state your name and spell for my name is Laji Crowley. First name is L. A. G. E. last name is Crowley C. R. A. W. L. E. Y.

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You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth. Nothing but the truth.

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Yes, I do. Are you a neighbor? Do you have an interest in this project? I am a neighbor and have interest in this project. Please proceed.

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um so first off hello to everybody we've spoken at the neighbors meeting and got some information

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on what was going on and as a homeowner and a property owner on harold street i'm excited for

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the new life that this brings in and ideally it removes a lot of the drugs and prostitution in

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the area i know that's bigger than just this location and more of a partnership with the city

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but excited for that um i can't say i'm excited for this event space but as a resident i am

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terrified of what the event space can do for the parking in the area um harold street is already a

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one-way street supporting homes also we have maybe two or three new developing apartments in the area

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uh i am aware that maybe permit parking may be permitted um that's not exactly something i'm

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excited about uh i am aware that this location will be open as late as 12 p.m uh which i'm not

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exactly excited about especially as a father of a three and a five year old that that can get

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really dicey on a given day um so i am kind of apprehensive about my yes um again excited for

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what is to come but i also still have a lot of worries that are unaddressed uh we have gone over

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things like putting up the gate which has helped but has also shifted uh some of the people that

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hang out there we have some pictures here in your slideshow that kind of demonstrates the activity

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there. So I think that there is still more work to come before getting to this point that this is a

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thriving wedding venue when you have drug activity and prostitution going on in the corner. So again,

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the gates that have been put up have been helpful, but I feel like the property overall is going to

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need a property manager, someone that can be consistently keeping up with this. And so that's

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my number one concern also someone spoke on it earlier um and i think i'm forgetting my place

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we spoke on parking and yeah i'll have to leave it at that because it's slipping me but just on

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my concerns there as a resident on this location all right thank you much thank you for taking

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time to call next hand please hi chair we have a hand up from britney sanchez they're being promoted

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with the panel. Hi, can you hear me okay? Could you please state your name and spell for the

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stenographer? Yes, my name is Brittany Sanchez. B-R-I-T-T-A-N-Y-S-A-N-C-H-E-Z. You swear

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referring to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth i do um are you a neighbor yes i lived

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on harold street directly across from this building please proceed um i went to the community meeting

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on in april and spoke with these lovely people here i think that natasha's idea is something

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that can really change the community and would be great however i do have concerns um jacob roller

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and Brett Feldman were specifically spoken to that the community support came with demonstration

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from that last month of showing how much they cared about our community and the fact that

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their building has been abandoned for so long and there's no one there taking care of it which has

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led to this drug activity, prostitution, dealers, feces and urine all outside. They have shown none

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of that. The pictures that they uploaded here of the fence being put up is only on the front

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part of that building but i could go outside right now and show you what it currently looks like

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um so what was posted here isn't accurate to what's actually happening outside why i think

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a wedding venue would obviously make some type of change because this is something that you would

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have to maintain 24 7 in order to have people who want to actually have their wedding here

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i don't think that they held up their end of the bargain of showing that they were committed to

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improving the environment to show the potential of this space and to continue to have community

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um the potential of this space and to and to continue to have community support behind them

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support.

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thank you um mr film do you want to respond absolutely um we i think you saw the pictures of

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we've spent and take all you can answer this more we've spent thousands of dollars on that fencing

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and the maintenance of that fencing over the last month month and a half um you know to to do

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everything we can do to try to secure that that building. I mean, and we were repeatedly in touch

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with East Kensington Neighbors Association about what we were doing each step of the way over the

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last month and a half. So it's been our intention to to resolve any concerns. Anything further on

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that? I was just going to add, you know, parking. I think people have mentioned that is a concern

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is why we've been, we have sort of a, you know, early confirmation from Temple University Episcopal

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campus that they have excess capacity at their facility, which is, you know, as you guys can see

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on the map is right there a block away. And so we do intend to utilize valet service between, you know,

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I think most people coming to events there, if they're driving, they would take, they would take

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use of that valet uh were also of course you know directly adjacent to the huntingdon station on on

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the l uh as far as the fences we we heard that feedback from the community we went out and and

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as brett said spent thousands of dollars to purchase and install fencing on on either side

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of the building and uh you know the the greater conditions of of kensington avenue is is a much

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greater problem uh than than you know just that that but we hope to be part of the solution

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also i own this building for decades yeah all right thank you um planning commission

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amy boyd with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends a changing

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zoning at this location from the current cmx 2.5 commercial mix use to cmx3 the proposed used to

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be allowed by special exception under the proposed zoning the appellant has demonstrated that the

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proposed use will not cause detrimental impact beyond what would reasonably be expected the

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planning commission recommends that the board grant their requested variance for event assembly

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facility thank you um lynn um first floor in basement only there's a small portion on the

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second floor that they're not using right okay thank you mi2025-007-849-1801 east huntington

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street i vote yes with proviso first and basement floor only michael johns my vote is yes with

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proviso great adaptive reuse for this building cheryl guest then my vote is yes with proviso

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.

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Tywin, my vote is yes with Proviso.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you very much for having me.

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Thank you so much.

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We haven't seen you in a while.

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Try to get on here more often.

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Here you go.

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Number six.

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MI 2026-00179-1202-Altra Street.

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Alex Goldberg is the attorney.

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non-opposition from passion

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civic association

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mr goldberg would you please state your name is spelled for the stenographer

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alex goldberg a-l-e-x-g-o-l-d-b-e-r-g you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

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whole truth and nothing but the truth i do mr goldberg could you identify your client a

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relationship to this property sure my client is 118 12 street llc and its representatives francis

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wang and jack zhao are in the virtual audience vice chair has just a few questions for you sir

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good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing

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i have and you wave the reason of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy i wave the reading but

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we have a amended plans in the packet that would change yes yep all right thank you can show your

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screen to proceed with your case okay um so i'm here presenting um a proposed direction of a new

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structure with six dwelling units this is a cmx3 property and as you'll see in a moment we are

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asking for one dimensional refusal for occupied area um this entire block is owned cmx3 and

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cmx3 specifically does not regulate the amount of units that you can have it

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cmx 3 specifically does not regulate the amount of units that you can have it it has regulations

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on occupied area parking and floor area ratio we are availing ourselves of this process because

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we believe that the version of this project that you're about to see with six units is

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better than the by right six unit project at this location and we have a letter of non-opposition

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from the rco as well as a letter of support from the directly adjacent neighbor the notice of

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refusal is for occupied area at the time of the original application we were asking for 89.75

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percent occupied area we met with the coordinating rco in march and they asked for a couple things

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and you'll see their letter but you know their position being non-opposition really hinged on

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us making a modification to the building and compromising some of the building size to make

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it smaller and agreeing to some other things but that's our one one refusal item the other thing

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i have not mentioned is that there are two accessory parking interior accessory parking spaces

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included as a part of this development project here's the letter of non-opposition from passing

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square civic association um they mention in here that they would like a proviso

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prohibiting visitor accommodations and short-term rentals it's not a part of this application

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i don't know if that's an enforceable proviso but we are agreeable to it what so uh you know

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that i'll just leave that uh as is the other things that we agreed to were interior trash

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storage you'll see a trash room in the building common trash room and also commercial trash pickup

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we're agreeable to to private trash pickup multiple times per week

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here's that proviso form zoom out and over the most notable change is that we shrunk the building

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by two and a half feet at the rear we now have a seven nearly eight foot rear yard and our occupied

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area is now 84.6%. We reduced the occupied area by about 5%. I will note that there are other

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properties and you'll see an exhibit shortly, possibly even the next. I'll wait until I get

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to that exhibit to explain. We have letters of support from nearby neighbors. So my client owns

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the two properties on 12th Street, which are perpendicular to us, but neighbor this building.

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And we also have a letter of support from 1206 Alter Street, which is the neighbor to the right of this building structure. So both adjacent neighbors are in support. There's also a letter on here from 1212 Alter Street.

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So the occupied area refusal that we're dealing with is commonplace in CMX3 properties that are

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in close proximity. You can see on the screen the 1200 block of Alter Street specifically,

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and I would point out that in 2017, a greater variance, one of 89% was granted to 1230 Alter

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street and in 2018 a greater variance of 91 occupied area was granted to 1224 altar street

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here's the 1300 block of altar street as well these are all full lot coverage and then south

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11th street the the street to our right here's an aerial view so this is a double wide lot that

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was consolidated prior to the engagement of our firm or or the initiation of this zoning matter

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that happened in September of 2025. So the lot is 28 feet wide and measures 1,367 square feet.

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Here's a zoning map. Again, you can see we're just off of Washington Ave. There is a large

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number of CMX3 properties here, many of them multifamily structures, but a mix of singles,

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multis, and commercial properties. My client owns a 10-unit building on the corner right next to us,

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And next to that property is a commercial building that he owns, which is the management office for his property management company, which has over 150 units under management.

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So that's a positive meaning that the management, the property management company is in very close proximity.

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You can see how close we are to Washington Ave.

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There are multiple bus lines.

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I mean, it's a major road, obviously, Washington Ave.

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Here's the front of the property.

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Here's the notice posting.

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here it is in 09 so it's been vacant for some time to the right you can see these large buildings

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taller than ours um i believe this is somewhere around 48 units and i think this is a 10 this is

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a 10 unit building right there here's the left so you have a mix of ones and twos and also an

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here's the left. So you have a mix of ones and twos and also an industrial slash commercial

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industrial

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rules.

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property on this side of the street. There's no parking available, no street parking available on

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altar, no legal street parking, I should say. So the curb cut that we're proposing won't take any

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publicly accessible parking spots off of the street. Here's the plans and drawings. So the

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project architect CP Wang is in the virtual audience. If there are any specific questions

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about materials or or architectural components um i think it has an interesting sort of four-toned

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uh you know design to it uh there's two doors here you'll see on the plans one goes directly

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into the garage area and one goes directly into the residential entry point and they also connect

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on the inside there's a three-foot wide alley that also runs down the left side of the property

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and and sorry before i move off of this page um we have a letter of support from 1206 altar which

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is the building the single family home approved by way of variance to the right of us um going

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back to what i said at the beginning of my presentation technically under cmx3 zoning we

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we would be permitted to add an additional floor onto this building structure to achieve our six

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dwelling units we felt at the outside of this application process and the rco agreed with us

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that rather than building a taller building structure which my client is entitled to do

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we would match the roof line of the building structure to the right of us

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and ask for an occupied area

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occupied area variance which is what we have done so you can see here that you

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know we're matching the height of that building next to us

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and shorter than the building to the left of us and I'll note that this

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structure right here is a part of the lot this is not a standalone

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lot here so this is sort of the back of the lot where that building structure

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is okay here's an additional site plan and sort of massing map front elevations

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the building structure is 39 feet high here the floor plan so we have parking

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on the first floor there's no living in the basement at the back of the the

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first floor there's a large storage area and below that there is a partial

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basement with additional storage so we have a ton of storage here for unit owners there is a trash

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room in the rear of the property with direct direct access to the rear and also direct access

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through the front of the property the second stairwell here which we were required to provide

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because of the four-story nature in the unit count of the building does take up valuable square

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footage of the you know the floors above it it does also give us a second means of egress for

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all four units all six units and it empties out directly into that three foot wide alley that's to

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the left of us you can see there's a vestibule here and that that enters directly into

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parking area the three floors above it are very similar they're all one bed one bath units

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we did shrink the building structure which shrunk those three back facing units

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um they were all previously 420 square feet one bed one bath units now those rear facing ones are

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smaller um 355 square feet it wasn't you know that was a topic of conversation at the rco meeting

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um there were comp there were there was commentary in in that meeting that that is what some people

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are looking for it's less expensive and maybe they live alone um which we agreed with um you

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can see here the upper floors again are much the same there is a shared roof deck on the top floor

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as being the primary outdoor space with all necessary setbacks all of the units have washers

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and dryers the building will be sprinklered you know obviously modern state-of-the-art there's

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nice natural light in every unit because of the large windows that we have at the front

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and the back of the building structure there's a cross-section

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We mailed notice. We had that meeting with the RCO on March 10th.

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Mailing certificates, application for appeal, deed to the property, and then there's two tax

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clearance certs here, one for 1202 and one for 1204 because the city's records have not updated

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that this is one tax account, but they're both clear. With that, I'd like to call my client to

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adopt my testimony jack or francis i'm not sure which one of them will be on

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jack

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mr chair i have a hand up from uh fang wong do you think that's possible yeah yes i'll go ahead

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and promote them right now please accept the promotion to panelists when you receive it okay

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Okay.

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I'm with that control.

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Sure.

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Hello.

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Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, my name is Fang Wang, F-A-N-G, W-A-N-G.

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do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told you nothing but the truth

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yes should you turn your video on please oh

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yes thank you counsel hi fang um did you hear my testimony today yes and was it true and correct

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yes and do you adopt it as your own yes thank you questions from the board can you go back to

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this section i want to see how who has all the residents have access to the um roof deck or just

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the upper all the residents have access to the roof deck and i think in anticipation of more

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questions maybe having my architect uh promoted and sworn in my sure why not okay well i want to

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see who's your architect uh his name is cp wang it might he might be showing up as pink oh there

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is right there all right sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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it's becoming back in shortly mr chair yeah i know okay

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and so the the uh so all the residents have access to the to the to the uh roof deck okay all right

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any other questions is there ventilated trash storage on each floor or in each unit there we

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just have the trash room on the first floor um we can sort of look into finding some space in in a

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in the common hallway um i don't want to carve any more space out of the units themselves but it's

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something that we can look into i think just generally you know at the top unit that's a

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five-story long walk down it's a long walk down um and then which uh which residents are going

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have access to the parking good question so i asked the same my understanding is in is that

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when the the units are leased up the it'll be essentially first come first serve to be able to

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you know privatize your parking space the building is the entire lot limit at this point right no

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we're at 84 84.9 well the residents have access to their i guess whatever the rear yards they will

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yeah and i'll go back to that first floor floor plan i mean it's not huge but there's this storage

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area back here that opens directly into the rear and also the trash opens directly and is there

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any more detail like for the storage area all residents will have access to it or is it going

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to be restricted to the building itself you mean like a sizable space building owner yeah i think

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my my and francis you correct me if i'm wrong i believe that the building storage will be in the

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basement and the tenant storage will be sectioned off on the first floor in some capacity just

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because it's easier for them to get to their stuff yeah just could you tell me real quick what the

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buy right option is for the unit 500 far is is the is the maximum floor area ratio we're at 339

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so we could put a whole additional floor on the building structure the floors are nine feet nine

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and a half feet somewhere between there so you know 48 foot building the unit count um you'd

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have to get an elevator, wouldn't you? That's right. The unit count is limited by the

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building code within that far. And then

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for the building at the corner, I know you said you're shorter than it.

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How tall is that building? It's a great

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question. I believe it's... Or do you know just like generally? I think it's at least

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45 feet tall. It's a four-story structure, but it... Because it's not

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built yet, right? No, it is built. It is built. Yeah, and you can see it in the photos. I wasn't

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sure if that was the rendering there's two there's two big buildings on the corner okay yeah i was

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like i was sorry and then the building next the next door which is at 1206 altar street it's

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permitted zoning but not building permits it's uh i guess it's by our by right well it was approved

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by way of variance because single family living is not allowed by right in cmx3 okay and they also

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So they also got a variance for the parking because it's weird.

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I guess in multifamily CMX3, you're allowed, but in single family, you're not.

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Frances, if you're still there.

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I just, because your building went up first and I know you matched the Cornice line.

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It looks like you matched the height to the building, but it's not there yet.

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So I was just trying to make sure that there's no chance that they'll come behind you and change that.

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I don't think so.

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You know, my client doesn't own that property.

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sure i don't know if it's under construction yet if francis can opine as to that that would

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I don't know if it's under construction yet.

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If Francis can opine as to that, that would be great.

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be great but it was matched based off of the approved drawings right right this one's like

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um questions or comments for our attorney

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no questions at this time questions or comments from the audience or the virtual audience come on

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good afternoon by the way you've been here a long time thank you all right why don't you get closer

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and bring that mic right over here my name is jacqueline dorsey j-a-c-q-u-e-l-i-n-e capital g-o-r-s-u-i

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you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do and are you a

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neighbor yes i am i live at 1208 altar first of all there's an alleyway next to 1206 that gives me

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entrance to my back and they have the building built directly next door to 1206 eliminating

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that alleyway and i they can't do that second of all the building on the corner they have a trap

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a dumpster on the outside of the walkway so they're not putting the dumps they have six

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apartments there that they use as airbnbs and they have a dumpster out there i have pictures

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of this is not this unit pardon this is something another location that's another it's on the same

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point yeah i but it's not it's not 1202. no it's not 1202. it's the owner of 12. okay okay he has

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all the properties you're saying yes he does okay so i'm i'm just concerned about that alleyway

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because I need access. I'm a senior. Plus, there is parking on that street. You park on the side

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where the buildings are. You can park in that street. I think the cars that are parked there

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are parked on the sidewalk. No, no. My friends that come to 1208 Altar park in front of my door.

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Okay. Okay. And the police never stops them. If you park on the sidewalk, they give you a ticket.

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okay they parked in front of my door 1208 um anything else ma'am

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no other than uh i'm i'm just i'm i'm just opposing it because i think we have enough

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they had he has the corner there um he doesn't you know i don't think he wants to use it

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for people to rent apartments that's just okay you're concerned with the airbnb that

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that's right all right all right thank you ma'am we we do appreciate you coming in and give us your

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voice anyone else in the virtual audience sure come on up could i wait to respond

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respond everybody yeah okay but real quick al do you have a uh rendering in your render

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does it show the alleyway there is no alleyway

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She lives at 1208 and her building structure is not built to the lot line, right?

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so there's there's it's not an alleyway it's her her lot there's open space between her lot

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and 1206. okay we're two lots over there's no alley there's no public alley or easement

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servicing her parcel from ours it is in the back not a public record that we're aware of yes it

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is a public record because he tried to build that there and i called license and inspection

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and they stopped him. It's two alleyways there. It's one next to 1206 and it's one that he's

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already blocked off. I have a picture of it. We don't believe that to be the case.

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To Peter Street. The one that he blocks off goes out to Peter Street and the one that's there

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that's next to 1206, whoever built on Peter Street, they took the alleyway to go all the way through

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to the street. But I can come from my backyard. There's an alleyway there that leads all the way

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to the one you blocked off. All right. Thank you. Why don't we let your associate come up?

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the the the atlas doesn't show an alley the the city on atlas it doesn't show an alley

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I've had that help.

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All right, let me hear.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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All right.

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I just want to say my my grandmother bought that house in 1947 oh and I've had it since 1965

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congratulations that's beautiful could you uh please state your name oh we we just state your

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name because we've already sworn you in for that other case yes my name is Mary Stumpf M-A-R-Y-S-T-U-M-P-F

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now mary you still live at 12th and ellsworth and how close i do well i live at the i my property

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goes from uh 12th and ellsworth through to peter street 1240 peter street which is the next little

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street south of altar so what's your testimony okay well um when during the um the zoning meeting

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with the civic it was brought out that the entire south side of altar street was erroneously changed

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to cmx three it should be rsa five and supposedly the planning commission knows that that's true but

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because it was changed and it's allowing people to to build what they're building now like the

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giant yeah and the person that owns that's that's here um to present this building um this it's the

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same owner as the one right on uh 12th street the 10 units that he's using six of them as an airbnb

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be and then there's a he's got a and you know this was brought up at the civic that um the dumpster

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really should be he's creating this precedent of having the dumpster but that's not relative

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to this case in other words you're saying he's doing it somewhere else you're concerned about

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what he's right next door to this well okay yeah 12 alter and yeah sure as well so um yeah

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and i agree with you that he should get rid of the dumpster we we don't disagree about that and

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that came up with the community meeting and i i believe to my memory he said that he would and

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he's on the call now so i think we're in agreement about that this is different property but i agree

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and um the other thing was uh the size of some of these units uh they're sort of like a hotel room

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they're very small some of them like 300 some square feet definitely thank you very much by

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rate he's allowed to do it yes thank you very much can i ask alex a quick question sure was

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Was the owner of 1206 at your community meeting as well?

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Because I know it looks like they own a considerable amount of the rest of the block as well.

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You may have more information than me, but I don't think they were there.

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They just signed a letter.

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I don't think they were there.

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Honestly, they may know who that person is.

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I can just note on the Airbnb thing.

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That was clearly a reason why that came up in the letter.

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and and you know what my client testified to at the community meeting was that he has tenants in

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that building on the corner that are subleasing their their units through airbnb it's a cmx3

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property which you're allowed to obviously you need the permits and the licenses to do that

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um but that is not his intention and we were agreeable to a proviso like eliminating that

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possibility all right what what one more one more time you can come up but come on up but

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but concentrate on this property that he's talking about go ahead thank you

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uh 1208 1206 the people that live in at the people that own 1206 live in new jersey

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so they never come to the meetings and i always remind them of it but they own the property but

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they live in jersey but that the point is i said it has nothing to do with 1202 am i right yeah

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that's the neighbor yeah thank you that's my question thank you very much

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um all right anyone else in the virtual audience

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no hands at this time chair it is built

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it is or at least as of july it looked almost done i'm looking on cycle media

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planning commission amy boy with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends

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no change in zoning from these existing cmx3 commercial mixed use the appellant has not shown

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that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances that would prevent the property

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from being used in conformity with the zoning code the planning commission recommends that

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the board deny the requested variance for occupied area can i just briefly respond so i think there

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is a unique circumstance here in that the six units are allowed and the option that would not

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put us in front of this board was was a worse option and the community agreed with that and

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and that's why we're asking for the variance that we are today so so council

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and that's why we're asking for the variance that we are today so so council the uh limited lodging

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and um the um uh visitor accommodations they'd have to come back in for that anyway am i correct

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right so right right we don't we don't need a variance for it that's why yeah i'm i'm yeah cmx

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3 allows it so that was why it was an issue for the community because they didn't want us to pull

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a by-right permit we don't want to make that a we're agreeable to it

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mi 2026 000 179 1202 altar street i vote yes with with proviso revised plan one page

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stamp by cba on may 6 20 26 and uh hold on here no another proviso no live-in lodging or visitor

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accommodations i would say michael john agreed to by the um the applicant agreed to by the applicant

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michael johns my vote is yes with provisos

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Cheryl Gaston my vote is no

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uh it's another ground my vote is yes supervisors thank you council thank you for coming in ladies

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number nine MI 2026 00000214 1946 grad street

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henry clinton is the attorney good afternoon mr chairman members of the board mr clinton

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could you please state your name is spelled for the stenographer sure my name is henry clinton

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h-e-n-r-y clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

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nothing but the truth i do could you identify your client their relationship to the property

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The client is capital P, capital A, capital B, capital K, S, Properties, LLC, and one of the principals is on the call with me. His name is Saad, S-A-A-D, Chaudhry, C-H-A-U-R-I.

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I see there was a letter of support with proviso from the RCO, and there's also a CBA. Am I correct?

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Correct.

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Okay. Our vice chair has a few questions.

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good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing

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i have miss graham except for the cva agreement which we submitted yesterday okay thank you and

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do you waive the reading of the refusals and stipulate to the accuracy i do all right thank

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you you can show your screen and proceed with your key thank you mr graham

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is that visible mr chairman it is all right good afternoon everyone again i'm

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I'm here for, it's actually a legalization of an eight-unit apartment building.

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Table of contents, A1 through A10.

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This is a rather very unique circumstance.

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My client purchased the property in March of 2024 as an eight-unit apartment building.

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He has rental licenses, and I have them here in the packet that go through the whole history.

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But basically, this property was a two-family zoning-approved dwelling in 2010.

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Sometime between 2012, if you look at the rental licenses here, and 2021, the property was converted to eight separate individual studio apartments.

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And I'll go through the permits and really explain what happened.

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But bottom line is, my client buys it in 2024, inherits eight tenants, all of them happen to be students, except one who was a senior citizen.

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And then in November of 2024, he got a sticker slapped on the front of the building by L&I saying, cease and desist and vacate the property.

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And I have a picture of that.

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So he had to get everyone out of the property at the same time.

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And ironically, the client purchased this property right near Temple and another property on 18th Street at the same time frame.

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And both of them are eight units and both of them receive violations from L&I that is not zoned properly.

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And I have filed an appeal, an application, try to legalize both.

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Today's hearing is on Gratt Street.

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I have another hearing.

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I just wanted to tell the board that I have another application like this next week on May 13th.

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And it's the same issue where it's been used as eight units for over a decade, but never, ever legalized.

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So I'll walk through this.

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So I'll walk through this.

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So we are an RM1 zoning district, so multifamily.

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So we are in RM1 zoning district, so multifamily is permitted.

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By right, and when I show you the photographs on the street, by right, you can typically get a triplex on this block.

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Now, I wasn't able to find out, you know, those triplexes, are they three, two bedrooms, you know, four bedrooms, I don't really know.

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But when you see the photographs, you'll see it's a multifamily block, duplexes and triplexes.

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Our refusals are, you can't have eight units when you're only allowed three, and you need parking spaces, and we have none.

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We do have a letter of support from Beach Community Services, and we went through the same discussion with them.

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They just couldn't understand how you could have a property operating with eight units for over 10 years, and now all of a sudden it's discovered.

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We don't know why it was discovered.

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My client really didn't dwell on that.

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He was really focused on trying to fix the problem and come up with a solution.

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So one of the things that we said to the community is, look, we know this block is full of students.

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You don't want students. So we will agree only to rent to senior citizens.

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And my client will testify how he went about the process of trying to find a company that would be able to put ambulatory seniors, and by seniors that's being defined as anyone over 60, ambulatory, who has a history of doing this.

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And he was able to find somebody and have a lease with that particular senior provider at the end of this document.

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So the community was concerned about only renting the seniors and also trash management.

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And you'll see that we have a master lease with a company that's going to be in charge of trash as well as preparing meals, et cetera.

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And I'll go through that at the end.

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Henry, just for a point of information, I'm going to recuse myself from this.

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I try to avoid voting on these Temple cases because I was there so long.

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So Tenet is going to take this case over, OK?

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OK.

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I was hoping I could call you as a witness, Mr. Chairman.

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So this is 1946 North Gratz.

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We're on the even side of the street, which is always the west side.

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And here's the property.

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Beautiful elevation.

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You can see next door is a triplex.

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On the other side is a triplex.

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There's a duplex here.

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Again, we're looking south to Center City.

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Here's another triplex here.

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We're looking in the opposite direction.

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We're looking north.

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Again, mostly multifamily on the block.

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There are some single family, but mainly multi.

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Again, more photographs just per perspective.

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Here's the front of the building.

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Here's the placard that was put on the front door.

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So each, basically what we have is each floor, starting with the basement, and it's a three-story structure.

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Each floor has two apartments or two studios.

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And when I show you the floor plan, you'll see how it's laid out.

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I have interior photographs.

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We're actually taken by my client who's going to testify today.

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So we have, you know, nice decks on or balconies on each floor.

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We have a entrance to the basement units.

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There's a set of walk down steps in both the front and the rear of the property.

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I'm just showing you other triplexes on the block.

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All right.

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This is the cease operation, November 3rd, you know, 2025.

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Just happened about four months ago.

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So, Saad, who's on the call, went through and took photographs.

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So, this is A1.

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This is in the basement, first unit in the front of the building.

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So, everyone has a kitchen.

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Everyone has a bathroom.

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And it's a studio ranging in square feet from 278 square feet up to 408 square feet.

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It's still the front.

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What was the upper limit?

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Again, please.

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Pardon me. Attorney Clinton. What was the upper limit, again, in terms of the square footage?

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You said 278. 278. That's the smallest. There's two units, 278. And then there's three units over 400 square feet.

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And it's my understanding from the. Is that good?

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is my understanding from yes i'm sorry i just didn't hear what you said okay i was just asking

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you to you know repeat all right so this is a1 this is the front unit in the basement this is a2

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rear unit in the basement which has a means of egress from the rear just like the front i'll

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show you that on the floor plan again a2 closet every unit has a split unit so they have their

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own individually controlled heating and air. Now we're on the second floor front, V1.

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Now we're on the second floor front, V1.

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Looking out through the front window there.

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Now we're on the second floor.

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All the bathrooms are relatively the same.

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I mean, there's a lot of photographs, but I thought it was, you know,

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We're asking for eight units.

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I just thought it would be best to show you photographs of every unit

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rather than just say this is what one looks like and apply that to all of them.

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So now we're on the third floor, front, D1.

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Just to switch back steps leading from the basement all the way up to the third floor.

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closet that's going to be a trash closet by the way but when you see the master lease the agency

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that's going to be involved with this building they're going to do all that they're going to

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collect the trash uh they're going to service the clients that are in here

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and this is the rear yard and there's a set of steps underneath these steps leading to the basement

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my front door again there's our placards posting all right so here are the plans um

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let's start go to the left side

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so here's the lower level here's the front of the building where you can go down the steps

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and into the studio in the front.

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And again, you know, we drew the bed in.

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There's no beds depicted in the photographs,

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but the kitchens and the baths and the standalone closets are.

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So then if you want to get into the rear unit,

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you would come into the rear steps and down into the basement,

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or you can come in the front door and then switch back into the bottom.

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But there's a means of egress for both studios in the basement.

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So then you'd walk up, again, switch back steps.

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You'd go to the front studio, and then there's an entrance to the rear studio.

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And then you have an exit to the rear yard on the first floor.

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Continue going up the steps.

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Then you're on the second floor front, second floor rear.

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And I can blow this up and show you the square footage.

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The smallest ones are going to be in the basement.

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So this is 278 and 357.

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Oh, here's, excuse me, the smallest are the basement and first floor front.

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The other studio here is 278, and then rear is 408.

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Second floor, 332, 401.

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and then third floor, 330 and 401.

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There's no rooftop deck in this facility.

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The other documents are what you would typically see in a presentation such as this,

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the application, the PIP form, the tax information indicating that taxes are due,

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zoning map it is a large lot it's 82 feet deep the house itself is about 62.

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the deed indicating ownership in april of 2024

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this is a notice letter to the community for the community meeting

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uh so i just want to get into these zoning records so again i said in the beginning that

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This zone is a two-family.

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So it's a 2010 property, as of right, two-family dwelling.

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And I couldn't find, you know, anything other than a site plan for this property and the front elevation.

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So the front elevation is basically what's there.

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I think they took some liberty maybe with the front porch, but it's basically laid out that way.

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Now, I found the rental license from 2012.

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Well, it's inactive.

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It says two units, which would have been legal.

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This is now we jump up to 2021.

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All of a sudden, it's eight units.

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Again, this is inactive because it went inactive as of 2023.

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And, you know, Odin Properties is a well-known company, and they operate many, many apartments in the city.

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so again my client looks at it does a little research on odin figured all right if they

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have eight units it's eight units uh then 2023 again there's a new owner eight units

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Then 2023, again, there's a new owner, eight units.

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My client purchased it, was able to get a rental license for eight units, and it's active.

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So then I went and started to look at the building permits.

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So I see in 2011, there's suppression system.

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There are sprinklers in the building, plumbing permits, mechanical and electrical.

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So when I looked at them, these elite fire protection, again, they do annual inspections, which is now expired because there's nobody in there.

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But I'll show you that at the end. So here's a plumbing permit from 2011.

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Somehow this contractor got a plumbing permit for eight water closets, you know, eight toilets, eight bathtubs, two washing machines and 14 laboratories.

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Then the mechanical was able to install eight wall-mounted heat pumps in each of the rooms, one in each of the eight rooms.

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This is 2011.

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Electrical, eight 20-amp, 200-volt outlets, and they have it listed as a duplex apartment,

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which we know that it either was then or became eight in 2012 or shortly thereafter.

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are so these are just some other records i pulled to show you that there's a sprinkler certification

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so there are sprinklers there which has since expired

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expiration date 9 25 of last year and this is the administrative notice of the violation

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indicating that you need a uu new use because they the city classified this as a rooming house

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Even though technically a rooming house would be just rooms with maybe a common bathroom, here I'm arguing that these are basically studio apartments, which they are.

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That's why I showed you all the photographs.

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Again, a sprinkler certification.

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And we also have central alarm monitoring by Frank Gentile of Elite.

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All right.

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So, again, my client had a problem.

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It's empty. He doesn't know what he's going to do with it. The community doesn't want students.

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So Mr. Chaudhary went and found a company called One Year Health Matters, LLC.

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We have a signed lease agreement for a three year term, master leasing these eight apartments to this company.

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And they have ready, willing and able seniors, 60 years and old, older ambulatory, where they this company coordinates the tenant services.

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and it's a triple net lease.

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So I'll go through the lease.

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I don't want to be overbearing,

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but I think some of the clauses in there

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are significant to what we're trying to do here.

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And then I'll talk about the tenant background

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and the tenant experience

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and show you where they're doing this now

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in Southwest Philadelphia.

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They basically sublease 31 bedroom apartments for seniors.

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The apartments are owned by somebody else,

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just like this situation,

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and they provide in-home care as needed.

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okay wait a minute um so um our council this proviso for seniors only we can't really enforce

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that that is correct we cannot do that yeah so but i i made a note because the rco um did that

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and i there was a i don't know if the cba has been finalized but i know there was conversations

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towards an agreement related to the provisos okay yeah i was trying to see in case i don't want

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them to go all through it and we can't really like you know proviso it so i think i think it's okay

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we're gonna you know trust that you just submit it with your packet in the lease

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agreement we can't enforce that okay only seniors only proviso but we do

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understand that you have a CBA with the RCO so right and you and mr. Graham to be

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perfectly candid the RCO is not signing yet but they understand they wanted us

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to do that so we signed it as an indication of good faith okay so all right

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if i don't want to bring your client on to adopt your testimony sure mr tyree can you come on please

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uh can you hear me yes yep okay hi can you state your name and spell it for the record

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uh my name is sad s-a-a-d last name is chowdhri c-h-a-u-d-h-r-i okay do you swear or affirm to

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tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do okay go ahead counsel all right

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Mr. Chowdhury, were you on the call when I presented the project?

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Yes.

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And did you take all the photographs that I showed here to the board today?

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Yes.

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And are you an active participant in this project?

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Yes.

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And have you coordinated and leased to a home health care company, a master lease?

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Okay.

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And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own and as true, correct?

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And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own?

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Yes. Correct. Yes.

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I have no further questions. Okay. All right. I have a question.

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Can you go back to your rendering and tell me how does a person get to the second, I mean, the basement rear apartment?

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it should be on it might be on your plan yeah i think you're right i don't know if i passed

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them or not i think you did but it's kind of i did you're right miss ma'am you're right

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i know the answer but i want to show it to you

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All right, so here is the lower level. This is the front where my cursor is to get into the front studio. You would enter through the front, go down the steps and into the unit.

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The same thing with the, with the, the rear.

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You would enter in through.

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The rear and go, so you're going to the other alley. I mean, there's no, you can't do that on all sides. Like, so I think what I think what happens.

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my mistake I think what happens here because I was I was in these apartments you come in through

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the front and you go down the switch back steps to get into the lower level and then you can go

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all right that makes okay all right questions from the board

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okay um I just I not question comment this is entirely too dense um and I don't understand

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And you say you're going to do this with seniors. These are a bunch of steps where you say these people are ambulatory. I guess I could call myself a senior at this point. I'm ambulatory, but a bunch of steps like that is a little hard for, I think, most of the seniors to deal with.

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Plus, you say now you said you were going to contract with some service that's going to come in and help these seniors.

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Is that what I heard?

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Yes. Yes.

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So the company, the company that we have the lease with is called One Your Health Matters.

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And what they do is they have skilled and unskilled services, nursing and LPNs, and they will, I mean, it's just like seniors who are living alone at home.

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You know, you can have a foot doctor come in one day.

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You could have somebody from Penn Health come in one day.

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The next day, you might have someone come in and bathe you, even though the family's taking care of the senior.

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This is the move now where there's all services being provided in the home.

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And this company has already 30 apartments in a structure in southwest Philly where they do this for 30 different individuals.

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And they don't take if you're in fact in a lease, if you're on a walker, they won't take you.

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If you're using a wheelchair, they won't take you.

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They just it just doesn't fit their model.

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Their model is ambulatory individuals over 60 years old, and they say they have a need.

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So they're going to sign a master lease for three years.

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And if the board is feeling uncomfortable and want to put in a sunset provision or something like that, because the lease is only three years, I'll be candid.

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It's not a 20-year lease.

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It's three years.

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So I'm trying to give you as much flavor as what this client is trying to do.

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yeah i have a question about the the operator so i understand that they have this other building in

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southwest philly is that building also a stair access only building yes in fact i have a picture

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this is the bill so okay so i will say the big difference here is this is a two-story building

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versus what we're looking at which is going to be four stories once we include

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The basement and like that's a very different setup. So I don't is the.

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Operator able to speak to how they plan to manage.

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2 more flights of stairs with elderly.

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You know, homeowners are renters.

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Well, I'm just going to talk about the economics that they're, they are signing a master lease.

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where they are going to be responsible for insurance, taxes, utilities, and rent.

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And then it is up to them to fill the units.

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the units if they have understand that i think what we're i think the reason we're giving these

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I think while we understand that, I think the reason we're...

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questions is because their model in southwest philly does not directly apply to the setup of

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this current building and while they yes they take the risk when they sign the lease it is a very

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different setup if they have to start renting it out to other people and it becomes something

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that's like very different than what we've discussed very different than what's been

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discussed with the rcos and the residents it becomes a completely different project all

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together and we're talking about anybody could rent here yeah i i can see yeah i can see that

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miss when i guess the only thing i would say is what's different about our building is one floor

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right because if if a senior walks in and is in the basement that's one floor down

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if he's on the first he or she is on the first floor it's even and so it's it has to do with

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the two apartments on the third floor then I I can see that the other thing and I'm sorry

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the other thing is I mean the my concern is um for eight dwelling unit you need to have

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3,400 square feet. And currently you have 1,365 square feet. So you're talking about

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almost 2,000 square feet less than you would ordinarily need to have this number of units.

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And it appears that somebody did this conversion. It doesn't appear that they had any permits to do it. And if they had tried to get permits to do this, they wouldn't have been allowed to do it.

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And I just, I'm having a real problem with the density. I'm having a real problem with the idea that you're going to put seniors, which, you know, right now they may not be needing a walker or wheelchair, but there's no guarantee that, you know, they won't fall.

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they won't have some other condition that comes up where they're gonna have uh the ambulatory

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problems that makes this um all these steps a problem and even to get into the first floor

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unit you have to go uh first floor unit you have to go up steps i mean this isn't this isn't like a

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a property where you know you're you there's any floor where you don't have to deal with steps

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I hear what you're saying. I mean, we're just trying to go on the track record of this company side, interviewed a number of different companies, and this was one that said they would take senior adults 60 years or older, ambulatory, non-vehicle owning, and they participate in the tenant's coordinated transportation program.

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So I hear what everybody's saying. I don't know how you can limit your population of renters to just seniors. I mean, I don't know how you can do that either.

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I have a question about the trash done at RCO, wanted to have dedicated trash areas and trash compactors. Where would, where are they? Like, where's the space on the plan for trash?

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Interior trash storage or?

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All right, let me, I'm going to go into that.

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Management plan is.

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All right, so.

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on the the there's the basement front trash storage a mop closet same thing here

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okay same thing here and there and and the the there's one on each in each studio apartment

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and the company is going to be responsible for collecting this trash from each senior's room

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that's that's in the lease also all right um questions from our attorney

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not at this time questions from the virtual audience

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madam chair i do not see any hands raised okay on planning commission amy boyd with

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the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning to the existing

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RM1 residential multifamily. Based on the lot area, the property would be allowed three units

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buy rate or four units with the mixed income housing bonus. Eight units is not the least

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minimum and there is no evidence that the conversion was done with the benefit of the

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proper zoning permits. The Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny the requested

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The Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the requested variance for eight dwelling units.

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variance for eight dwelling units.

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Can I address that?

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Yes, you may, counsel.

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All right, thank you.

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So, I know there's eight units.

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I can't prove it that there's apartments on this block with six bedrooms and potentially seven bedrooms.

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So I think we have to look at not necessarily the number of units, but the number of bedrooms.

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And this is not a rooming house.

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Each senior would have their own living space, bathroom, kitchen, and going to be well managed by a professional company.

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So I appreciate your consideration.

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And again, if the board wants to consider even a sunset provision, that would be a wonderful thing.

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And we can see whether this, you know, I don't want to call it experiment, but see whether this type of living in an apartment building where many, many seniors are living by themselves in a home of their own home or institutionalized.

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This seems like a potential way to go.

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Alright, thank you so much Council. So we had a lot of discussion on this, so we want to take it back to executive session. I have some folks that have a couple other questions they want to peel out a little bit further.

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so thank you we're going to hold the vote on this and we can vote on this uh next week

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i appreciate it and i'll see you next week with the 18th street thank you very much

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this grant number 10 mi 2026 000 226 3240 to 64 hancock street peter kelson is the attorney

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Jared, that should be coming back in shortly.

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Good afternoon, members of the board.

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Peter Kelsen on behalf of the Hispanic Association of Contractors and Enterprises, commonly known

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as ASE.

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If I may, I'd like to promote-

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Hold just one minute.

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it. I'm sorry. No, you don't have to be sorry. I mean, although everyone knows you, could you

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please spell your name for the court stenographer? Of course. I apologize. Let me swear you in,

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okay? Absolutely. I apologize. It's Peter K-E-L-S-E-N, blank Rome, LLP. Do you swear or affirm

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to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I certainly do. And then if you

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would, please one more time, identify your client or relationship to the property. Sure. The owner

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the property and my client is the hispanic association of contractors and enterprises

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commonly referred to as assay um and at this time mr bergman if i could i would like to just one

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more little one more time could our vice chair ask you a few questions absolutely there you go

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and then we'll start good afternoon have you submitted your documents and exhibits

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five days in advance of this hearing? Yes, I did. And do you waive the reading of the refusal

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and stipulate to its accuracy? Absolutely, I will. Okay, thank you. You can share your screen

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and proceed with your case. Okay. Again, I would ask if I could have Eric Bodson promoted. Yep.

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And also Maria Gonzalez, the director of ASEI. Sure. As well. Thank you. First one, please come on.

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yeah and then maria gonzalez that's becoming bacon as a panel of short mr chair

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thank you so much yeah here you go sir how are you

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you have the whole family today yeah i mean you're gonna get a whole team here i mean like eric's

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here now i mean listen if i had time i would have brought labor in and we would have had everybody

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all right can i just say that uh maria yeah i just want to wait for any commission together for many

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years maria

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eric let me swear you in could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yes eric you got two devices on yes we do

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well eric is not going to testify he's going to run oh okay well then we'll just let him stand

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yeah that's right okay if that's okay maria yes hi maria could you please state your name

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is spelled for the stenographer yes maria gonzalez m-a-r-i-a-g-o-n

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Yes, Maria Gonzalez, M-A-R-I-A-G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-Z.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed, Mr. Kelson.

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Thank you again, members of the board.

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You'll see on your screen our exhibit package, including the referral, RCO letter of support, photographs, renderings, plans, deed.

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The property is owned by ASEE, as I indicated.

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It's a 501c3 entity, and it is shown as real estate tax exempt.

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And lastly, our notices and certificates of mailing.

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If I may, members of the board, the subject property consists of a one-story structure.

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It has been owned by ASEE through a transaction with the Redevelopment Authority of the City of Philadelphia.

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It contains about 17,150 square feet, originally constructed in 2009.

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You can see it illustrated in this aerial before you on Exhibit 3.

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And I want to show you street-level views, if I could, at exhibits.

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There we go.

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The Hancock Street frontage.

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this property fronts on hancock street westmoreland and what was formerly known as paleo thorpe

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so three frontages westmoreland frontage

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former paleo thorpe street frontage you will also see the entrance from this angle

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to parking area gated and one more and now we're looking north on hancock street

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It is adjacent to Karib Towers and the Casa Karib developments that were done by ASE a number of years ago that support senior housing.

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At the time this property was developed, it was used by Mercy Life as a life center in support of the seniors and the community surrounding it.

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Mercy has since ceased its operation at this location, and it is currently vacant.

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The property is zoned, as you will see at Exhibit 3, the zoning map, I-2 Industrial.

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However, the City Council currently has before it, and I believe you have a copy of this, thank you,

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I'm showing you on the screen bill number 260211.

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This was introduced by Council Member Lozada on March 12th of this year.

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And this bill seeks and proposes to remap a large section of the immediate area.

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But most specifically, members of the board, it would remap the subject property to CMX3 commercial.

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Why is that relevant? Well, if this bill had been enacted, it's now sitting before the Rules

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Committee, but it has not had a hearing yet or scheduled. This would be a buy-write use,

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completely buy-write use. But because it's currently shown as I-2, we need a zoning board

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variance because the use that I'm going to describe to you in a moment does not fit within the I-2

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district. So what are we going to use the property for? The property will be used as an educational

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and therapeutic treatment facility for students with special needs, specifically autism,

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grades K through 12. We anticipate approximately 55 to 70 students as it ramps up. Let me show

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you a floor plan you can find that floor plan at exhibit five this is a conceptual floor plan

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pretty much baked but it'll give you an idea of the level of detail the level of sophistication

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that will be brought to the to the uh to the use and operation and we will be utilizing the entire

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first the first floor of the property there is no second floor and all of the

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renovations members of the board will be done internally there's no external

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expansion or modification of the footprint I'll say we'll enter into a

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lease with an entity by the name of Mary Kay Mary Kay is is a renowned

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specialist in it's a not-for-profit as well in the area of special needs

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education services counseling social services etc

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services, counseling, social services, etc. And again, as I indicated, this will be basically

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an educational and therapeutic facility for those individuals in that need category.

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What's especially important to ASSEI, as well as to America, and especially to the community,

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it will serve this catchment basin of North Philadelphia, which needs much more

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programming for these individuals. There's a real deficit here. And now they're going to have

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state-of-the-art programming right here. We have met with a community, and the community

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has indicated its support for this use. You can see a copy of the meeting summary

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on your screen. It was unanimous support. The council member is supportive as indicated by

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the fact that she's introduced the remapping legislation and will be moving that legislation

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through rules committee and achieve final passage. The proposed use members of the board I would

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submit to you is in fact consistent with Mercy's Life Center use. Now, while this is educational

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programming, the Life Center use component also did include counseling, special services, as well

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as therapies and clinical care in many cases. So they're very similar. But again, because of the

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i2 designation a zoning board variance for this use right now is required i would submit to you

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members of the board that the proposed use will enable critical state-of-the-art educational and

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therapeutic programming to be made available for the special needs population and it fulfills

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not only that mission but it is complementary and compatible with assay's mission

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of community development and support.

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If the board has any questions,

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either I or Maria will be happy to answer them.

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Are you going to have Maria adopt your testimony?

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I will.

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Are we ready for that?

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Maria, would you unmute for a second?

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Thank you.

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Ms. Gonzalez, what is your position at ASE?

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I'm the president of the organization.

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And are you familiar with the proposal that's before the zoning board this afternoon?

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I do.

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And did you hear my presentation from the beginning?

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Yes, I did.

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And you heard all of it?

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Yes.

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Do you find the statements that I made to be true and correct to the best of your knowledge?

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Yes.

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And finally, would you adopt those statements as your own?

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Yes.

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thank you very much questions from the board your question um how are students um coming to the

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facility are they bussed um are they how are they dropped off are they maria why don't once you take

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that one it will be a combination of both there will be some children that may be bussed in um

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and there may be some that will be dropped off um in on the building on the lower um side facing

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on the southern part of the building there is a driveway and there is if you see to your left

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there's an opening there where um cars can pull in off the street drop drop off the children and

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they can proceed going down um and making that left down uh peltor street um that was a similar

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operation that we had with mercy life when they actually there was more activity because at

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But the highest point where they had full enrollment of seniors, they were serving 170 seniors at one time, and they were dropping off in front of the building because there's kind of like a drive-in, you know, pull-off area in front of the building and then through the side of the building.

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And here with Merrikey's operations, they're only going to be serving 50 to 70 students at the maximum.

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Great. And another question. I see there's an outdoor court, but I don't see any outdoor

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sort of space for the students. Will that be sort of gated off and you'll provide some outdoor

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space for them, or how's that space going to work? So, if you go to the floor plan right there,

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So if you go to the floor plan right there, so you see that gray area on the center, that is a gated courtyard for their use, and they're proposing to install, you know, swings and things like that, and that's gated from the street, so the children can, would not be able to leave that space.

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So you see that gray area on

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Great, thank you.

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Okay, questions.

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Yes, question, and this is just a query.

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So, the application is under, what does it say here, group medical, dental, and health practitioner and personal services.

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Yes.

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And not under some sort of, well, I don't know whether there's one for this, but for educational use.

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Right.

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So, I'm sorry, Ms. Guzman, I didn't mean to cut you off.

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i mean they're they're school children correct yeah so that's right yeah so if it was an actual

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school then they do educational facility if it was child care they do child care center

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but i think if they're providing like specific like uh any sort of like therapies or anything

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that then falls under the group medical and i think also the personal services if there's like

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trained like it's some sort of like training and things that they're doing that's typically

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how L&I breaks it out. Interesting. That's correct, Ms. Gaston. Hillary's correct. When we've made the

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application to L&I, we're very careful to include the group medical and health practitioner because

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of the therapeutic component, valuation components, etc. But because it is not a public school, L&I

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puts it down as personal services. That's why I wanted to go through the record and show the

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plans as clearly as I hope I did to confirm that this is, in fact, a school for special needs

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children. Okay. And then how do you find these children, or how are they directed to this

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facility. Maria, would you want one? Yes. So, they are, Merrikey has agreement with the local

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charter schools and public schools. So, charter schools, they have to accept all children,

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regardless of abilities and capacity. And when they have a child that needs special needs,

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usually they have a an agreement with a provider and they take that child outside of the community

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in this situation the child can stay inside the community and be able to get the services that

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they need in order for them to be successful successful in their academic life and also

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receive the proper treatment that they need in order to address their um you know their disability

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So they're really children from the community.

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Ms. Gonzalez, if I could just ask you one quick question, building on Ms. Gaston's.

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Meraki is an approved provider to the school district as well as to the certain charters you referred to?

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Yes.

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Okay. Thank you.

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Okay. All right. Any other questions?

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

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Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

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Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

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Do not see any hands, Mr. Chair.

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Planning Commission.

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Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

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The comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from the existing

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I-2 medium industrial to RM1 residential multifamily.

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The proposed use is in harmony with the previously permitted use on the site and with the surrounding

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residential uses.

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The Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant the requested variance for personal

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services.

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Thank you.

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i saw a couple notes we're ready to vote right

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uh yes we're we're fine okay sure yeah there's a couple notes but we're all good

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for sure m i 20 26 000 226 32 40 to 64 north hancock street i vote yes

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michael johns my vote is yes cheryl gaston my vote is yes sonetta graham my vote is yes

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my vote is yes thank you thank you thank you uh thank you is there anyone in the uh audience

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whose uh two o'clock case has not been called i do not see any hands okay so

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miss gaston has directed that we take a five minute break

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good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman

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and I will be chairing this Zoning Board of Adjustment hearing.

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Zoning Board of Adjustment hearing. With me is our Vice Chair, Teneda Graham.

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With me is our Vice Chair, Teneda Graham.

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Teneda Graham, President, Mr. Chairman,

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our Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, President, Mr. Chairman, Board Member, Michael Johns, President,

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Mr. Chairman, and Board Member, Taya Nguyen, President, Mr. Chairman.

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Also present is our Attorney, Hillary Emerson, our ZBA Director, Ian Haggerty, and our Board

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Administrator, Lakeisha Dandy. This hearing is being recorded and will be posted on the ZBA

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website. By participating, you consent to be recorded. This is an in-person meeting with

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remote participation. Whether in person or Zoom, if you're called to speak, please state

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and spell your name. Wait to be sworn in. After that, state your name each time before

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testifying. To ensure to enter an appearance, indicate the property address on your Zoom

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webinar speak with a staff member or call the zba office by close the business tomorrow call

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215-686-2429 and provide your name email and the case and the address of the case

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remote participation raise your virtual hand when directed when we call on you just click

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on the join the panelists button use the q a only for questions relative to procedure

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there will be no case comments if you are joining by phone please press star nine to raise your

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hand and star six to unmute so let's look at our schedule for this afternoon

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number one mi 2024 003 951 5518

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Morton Street.

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Devin

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is the attorney.

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Devin?

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This is the fourth listing of this

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case.

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So

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MI-2022

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Sorry to interrupt. This is Jason.

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now be your calls for the session mr hukta does not seem to be part of the virtual audience this

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afternoon thank you mi 2024-003-951-5518 morton street i voted dismiss michael johns my vote is

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to dismiss cheryl gaston my vote is to dismiss tennetta graham i voted to dismiss number two

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MI 2025-001-576, 2016 North Bancroft Street.

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Devin Upta is the attorney.

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This is the third listing.

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Mr. Chair, we did receive a continuance request earlier today from Mr. Upta for this matter.

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He had been previously advised that he needed to appear for any continuing request since this was the third listing.

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He's not in the audience, Mike, correct?

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I do not see him in there.

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MI 2025-001-576-2617 North Bankrupt.

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I vote to dismiss.

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Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.

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Tanetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.

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I win. My vote is to dismiss. Also, my vote was to dismiss for the last one.

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I didn't get on record.

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What'd she say?

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Well, that's okay.

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Number three, MI2025002819, 2922, rear to 24 South Felton Street.

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um this case is continued until 8 25 2026 at 3 30 p.m number four mi 2025 003 221

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1968 new kirk street this is the second listing we have no uh exhibits

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It's Coronel Farrell, Farrell is the listed person, applicant.

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Mr. Chair, I do not see them in the virtual audience either.

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All right.

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So when no one appeared the last time, so MI 2025-003-221-1268 North Newkirk Street, I vote to dismiss.

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michael johns my vote is to dismiss cheryl gaster my vote is to dismiss

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Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.

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Sonata Graham, my vote is to dismiss.

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Tywin, my vote is to dismiss.

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Number 6, MI-2025-007-171-219 West Roosevelt Boulevard.

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Lubna Alarbi is the listed applicant. This is the first listing.

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There is support from the 42nd Ward.

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Lubna Arati, please raise your virtual hand and wait to be sworn in.

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Lubna Arati, once again, please raise your virtual hand.

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all right so all right they raised their hand i don't love them to speak okay

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okay you're next good good afternoon how are you could you please state your name and spell

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for the stenographer you have to say your name hello my name is

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and could you spell it please for the court stenographer uh l-u-d-n-a last name aloradi

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a-l-a-r-a-d-i all right do you swear or affirm that tell the truth the whole truth nothing but

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the truth yes we we do not have any of your exhibits we did not receive anything for you

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for today's hearing yeah it says successive successfully submitted

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i even got an email that says successfully so um we need uh lubna to be the one speaking please

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um the person who was who was sworn in um unfortunately we do not have a record of

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receiving your documents so um unfortunately we're going to need to continue this matter today

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um but please reach out to the zoning office to make sure that um we that everything goes through

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next time um so that we can proceed okay well we got the email says accepted for today yeah but

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but we don't have it we don't have it it's the first listing we don't have it all right so here's

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what we're going to do we're going to continue it and then what we'll do is you can call the

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office and people here will help you in getting your documents in okay for the next hearing so

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So MI 2025-007-171-219 West Roosevelt Board.

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This case is continued to 825-2026 at 3.30 p.m.

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And just to update, I was just advised we did receive a submission from you,

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but it was after close of business yesterday.

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The exhibits need to be submitted five days in advance so they can be reviewed for completeness.

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So that's why we have it marked as no exhibits because one, as of the end of the day yesterday, we did not have anything.

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Okay, sorry about that. So number eight, MI 2025-007-187, 6930 King Sesson Avenue.

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This case is continued until 825-2026 at 3.30 p.m.

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Now we're going to go to our list and we're going to start with number nine.

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Number nine, MI-2025-007-250-340 North 18th Street.

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You're a counsel, right?

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I'm the owner of the property, Mr. Chairman.

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Okay, and you represent yourself?

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Yes, I'm an attorney by tree.

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Okay, could you state your name and spell for the sonographer?

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Yes, my first name is Adesola, A-D-E-S-O-L-A.

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My last name is Adebason, A-D-E-G-B-E-S-A-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes, I do.

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Right.

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I usually say, like, you know, could you identify a client in a relationship to the property?

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I don't have to say it this time.

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So our vice chair has a few questions.

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Good evening.

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Have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes, ma'am.

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And do you waive the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes, ma'am.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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You can share your screen and proceed with this.

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Can you tell us what happened to the RCO meeting?

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yes so at the rco meeting i was prepared to present my presentation the rco

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the rco chair i believe it was charles karn advised that i needed to have specific architectural

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chair i believe it was charles karn advised that i needed to have

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drawings i advised that because i was not intending to build any construction that i did not have

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those but i did offer that if i needed to get those i would but i did check at the training

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that same evening i believe and then followed up in writing with lakeisha dandy just to make sure

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if that was required for the specific variance use that i'm requesting she advised that it was

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not so I decided to proceed with today's hearing so as mentioned I'm the owner my husband and I

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own this property at 3804 north 18th street in Philadelphia PA19140 I'm here today to request

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the use variants for permission to use the property as a two-family home unfortunately

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when we bought the property there was a tenant on the top floor and we were under the impression

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that it was legally operating as a two-family unit but only to find out that it wasn't which

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is why we began this process and there are a few reasons to support my request but specifically

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the why is I'll focus on first just the unique physical structure of the property which a lot

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of the homes on this block are this way but it is currently a three-story property that is sort

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of already set up as a two unit it was built in 1940 there's a four to five bedrooms within the

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whole home two and a half bedrooms it's 2 390 square feet and the third floor layout rests at

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the top of a separate set of stairs which my understanding is that there previously was at

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some point in time a separate electric meter even though this property was not legally zoned but

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But the property is at least about 300 square feet larger than most of the homes on this

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residential block, with the exception of 3800 North 18th Street, which seems to have undergone

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some renovations.

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This use variance would not alter the neighborhood scheme for a couple of reasons.

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One, there was already two families living in that home, so it's not going to additionally

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congest the property with any additional parking because it was already in use that

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way.

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but as you can see here on the screen from this first picture to the far left is at 3800 north

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18 so that is a four unit multi-family property which each unit has two bedrooms and a bath and

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that property is only 1365 square feet directly to the left here as well that's 3802 that is a

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multi-unit property as well as well which according to the documents online there's five bedrooms and

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but it is legally zoned as a duplex or two-family unit and then directly to the right of the

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property here you may not see it in the pictures I can zoom in a little bit but 3806 actually has

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two entrances so whether or not it is legally or legally operating as a multi-unit it is currently

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being occupied by two families and then it's not a multi-unit but on 1735 West Butler Street at

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corner directly across the street it also was granted use variance for the first floor as a

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grocery store and two additional apartments on the second floor so i just say all that to say that

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it would not alter the neighborhood scheme in any way and then because there is no construction

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um it's not going to impair any light or air um for any of the adjacent properties because

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yes um so i'll walk through sure these now um so let me just i'll do it this way all right

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so this is the front of the property here and this is another front street this is also just

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a picture of the back door and the backyard so this is the first landing of the steps so these

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pictures here are the way it's set up now and we were temporary living in the property but we're

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doing a little bit of um renovations because it it was built in 1940 but it's also very old interior

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so this is the first floor kitchen as you can see uh the pictures are 3d which is why they look a

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little zoomed out so that you can sort of see everything. This is the kitchen on the third

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floor, which is already there. It's not anything additionally built. And then this is the half

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bathroom in the basement, which just has a toilet and a sink that's not pictured. This is the second

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floor bathroom. It's your standard bathroom, full bath, kitchen, and a vanity. And then this is the

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bathroom on the third floor, which you can't see the tub pictured, but there is a small tub to the

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left of the toilet and a sink as well and then on the second floor this is the

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bedroom one there's a bedroom two this is a bedroom three and this is the

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bedroom on the third floor but then back down to the first floor there's a living

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room there's a dining room and then on the top floor there is a third floor

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which could alternatively be used as a bedroom as well so I did submit some

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I did submit some artwork that is not very great and I'll admit that on the record but the purpose

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artwork that is not very great and I'll admit that on the record.

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of that was in use of it with conjunction of the photos just to really show that when you walk in

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it's living room dining room kitchen you take the steps up to the second floor there's three bedrooms

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and one bathroom and then the same steps that go out to that same front main entrance lead to a

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third floor that has a separate door and you immediately walk into the kitchen the bathroom

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right there and then there's two rooms which one could be used as a living room or it could be used

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as two bedrooms and then there's also um a roof a door that accesses the roof from the third floor

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as well so the first and second floor is an apartment in the third floor yes um i will

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quickly show i know we waived this so you all know uh the the notice of refusal but the purpose of

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this use variance is because it is an RSA 5 residential area and um that does not permissively

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allow for use of two family and then I did walk through the photos but I will

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okay

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um I did also provide just pictures of the zoning posters um with the exception of the last one so

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you'll see that it's properly time stamped just to show you that we had it there was some wind

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um sometime last week so that's why the last photo you'll see um the zoning poster was sort

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of removed and posted on the the light pole and then that's why that last one has a time

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stamp of april 28th just to show you that we were complying with keeping that up

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um up until this hearing and then i know we haven't gotten into it but i know one of the

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concern to sort of the storage for the moti unit so my husband and i did sort of look into this

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looking to keep that if you're on that bottom property meaning the first and second floor

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you'll keep your trash in the backyard until it's time to bring it out for trash days which

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are tuesdays and friday on that block but then for the top unit um we'll have these sort of

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installed so that there's not there's not really much room in the kitchen for a utility closet

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but there is room to sort of install these types of cabinets so that they can have trash internally

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which because it is only meant to be for one or two people likely one person we don't anticipate

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it being that much trash but just wanted to proactively um propose that option as well

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just in case the board was concerned about that questions from the board yeah but i understand

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the explanation of the building but it's kind of hard without kind of some kind of level of plans

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um to see how the um that second unit is accessed i know you described it um sort of being accessed

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from this main stairway um but is there a separate i know you said there's a separate doorway into the

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third floor but how is that how is that stairway separated from the rest of the

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second floor right and from the first floor yes so I will I'll show you the

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pictures of the steps and then try my best to explain it so here what we're

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looking at that is the main entrance directly to the right and I'm sorry okay

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you can't see what I see I see a tab blocking the pictures but so this right

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here this front door is the main entrance directly next to this is a door

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that allows you to go into the front living room if you walk up to these

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steps here what you can't see but you'll see the ladder right there there is a

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separate door that also goes to the second floor which will be closed

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because this you can see in this picture the you can see the door frame where the

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door closes there is a door right there as well so it's a separate entrance that

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goes up to the top steps and then i'll show you the what that picture looks like so this is exactly

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what it looks like so what you see here to the left is where that main entrance that goes into

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the living room if you walk directly up these steps where you see that ladder to the left there

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is actually a door and right in front of that ladder the door is open so you can't tell but

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that door closes so that entrance and then going up those top landings is where you ultimately get

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to that second unit right in that area. The walkway that you see up there that looks like

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a door is open, that is the open kitchen. There's no door in the kitchen. So I know

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it's difficult. So how does, so how does the, so the first,

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the lower level unit is bi-level, right? This first floor, second floor, and has access

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to the basement. How does one that lives in that lower level unit, does the lower level

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going to have to come into this stairway to go to the second floor of their unit no because the

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No, because the door is going to be closed. So there's an internal steps for them to get to the second. When you say the second unit, you mean the second story?

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door is going to be closed so there's an internal steps for them to get to the second floor

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No, the second floor of the main, of the ground floor unit, of the first floor unit.

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Is there a separate set of stairs internal to that apartment that takes them to the second floor of their apartment?

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And where is that?

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So I believe it's in...

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okay so that's a problem because it's cut off okay so this this right here is the living room

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and as you can see there's a piano and um i'm apologies because i just realized it's cut off

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in this picture so directly to the right of this chair these are the set of internal stairs that

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goes up to the second floor and as soon as you get to the top of that second floor landing

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you're in between one of the bedrooms and the bathroom and you don't have access to the third

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to the to the third story from that landing so it's like it's the old back stair yes correct

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it's the old back stair right that's typically pretty narrow and pretty steep so uh it's kind

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difficult to get furniture up those stairs so they are somewhat steep but not narrow

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and speaking from experience because um unfortunately the previous owner did not

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clean out the property so that was my lovely responsibility we got many beds and dressers

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and a lot of things down the stairs so it's not um it's not narrow at all it's actually quite wide

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um but sort of steep in the sense of i believe there are 16 15 steps and i only know that because

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they had a wheelchair um sort of accessibility um chair attached to the stairs that we removed

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the questions how do you get to the basement from the same unit then it's the it's directly

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there's a door in the kitchen let me see if I can actually so especially if

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stairwells on both sides of your unit yes there's a stairwell that goes

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directly to the basement from the first floor kitchen okay I do know why but

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yeah there's a there right by the backyard door right here to the left of

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it which unfortunately you can't see in the pictures either there is a door that

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leads directly to the basement you said there was a tenant in this when you

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purchase the property yes and um are the utilities already separated between unit one and unit two

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no so the tenant um when i'm sorry let me just clarify when we purchased the property

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before closing there was a tenant there obviously the tenant had to become vacant so that we could

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purchase the property but um necessarily but yeah yeah well yeah that was that was a part of the

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the um closing agreement that they needed to deliver the property um vacant but um at the time

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there were not separate utilities when it was it's rather complicated but i'll make a long story

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short when i called pgo to transfer everything over into my name they were confused because they

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did have an address there as unit as apartment one or floor ones and two and then another one

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as four three so i said okay can we put all of them in my name they ended up calling me back

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saying that actually there's only one there used to be two meters but now it

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seems like everything merged into one so it was they were also very confused but

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my understanding was that the previous owner was paying the utilities and the

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tenant was just paying her minimal rent so when you subdivide this should you

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get approval what's gonna be your plan for the utilities and managing the

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tenant so my plan will only be to have an additional electric meter set insert

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it to separate that and then to personally maintain the water bill and the gas bill okay

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do you have the support of the neighbors on either side of the home i don't have that in writing but

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verbally i've talked to them extensively they've seen us coming in and out moving things out of

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the property and renovating they're okay with it and then i do also want to add that at the rco

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meeting, the leader did basically verbalize and say, we're not looking to prevent you from doing

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this. We know what's going on in the neighborhood. We know that most of these properties are already

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operating this way. So we don't anticipate it being an issue. So did you get a letter from the

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RCO? No. And I anticipate that's because they were under the assumption that if I continued

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this hearing, that I would come back for a second hearing, which in reaching out, I explained I

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opted not to do that because I paid a lot of money to make sure to notify the company

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and I didn't want to sort of reincur those costs.

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I don't know what that meant. Honestly, I don't know what that meant.

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I don't know what that meant.

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Honestly, I don't know what that meant.

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Oh, so, so sorry.

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Oh, so sorry. So just paying to print out the notice of refusal and the notice itself to mail it out to, I believe it was 157 people, and then to pay for each of the certificates of compliance to make sure that I had that.

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So they didn't give you a letter because they wanted you to come back to them? I'm trying to, they didn't provide a, you had a meeting with the community, right?

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Yes, sir. Okay. And they, so we don't let, we don't have a letter on record from them.

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We do not. Okay. And, okay. So we don't, so we don't know the outcome of the meeting or from them. Okay.

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Yeah, no, I didn't receive a summary notice. Um, and I sort of explained that in the email as well. I'm not sure why, but again, I anticipate it's because they wanted me to present these architectural drawings and try to reschedule.

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like to to postpone this hearing to set up a second rco meeting and so i assume that that

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is likely why there was no summary i mean i will say architectural drawings would have been helpful

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and you're going to need them to proceed with construction so i do think that like

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it's it's kind of hard to understand how these two are working currently

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and you okay so sorry just for to clarify i would need them even if i'm not doing

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because you don't you think it's well you're gonna i don't you don't i don't see how you're

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gonna get through this project to subdivide it without any construction

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because even fixture replacement requires you to pull permits and usually they're

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require some sort of documentation for that there's like shop there's ways around it but

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it's complicated and you need lots of like sub consultants which you could do but um yeah

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um so you never presented to the rco i did but not it was it it wasn't a full meeting in my opinion

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if they asked questions we talked about things and they didn't necessarily vote but they went

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around and asked sort of like do you recommend if she has a second meeting or request the continuance

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um hillary do we take a shot at the rco see where they stand with it um we could i mean we could

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hold this right thing for you know two weeks a month see if there's further

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discussion see if we get a response from the RCO yeah I mean it's up to the

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board the meeting requirement was met and yeah so the meeting requirement was

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met but I think we deserve take one more shot at them to see if they're willing

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sentence on and then when we come back we'll make a decision okay yeah i would just uh put a deadline

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on that yep yep uh two weeks that would be fine all right um questions or comments from from our

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attorney um not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience i do not see

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any hands with the chair planning commission take a position planning commission yes um amy boy with

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the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the current rsa five

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residential single family zoning at this location the property was remapped from rm1 residential

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multi-family in 2021 there are multiple multi-family properties on this block so the proposed two units

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is in harmony and is the least minimum the planning commission recommends that the board grant the

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progressive variance for two family thank you um so we're gonna we close this except for what we

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yeah it closes except for a letter from the rco um and a response from the applicant if they wish

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and we'll vote um in two weeks which i believe is the 22nd 22nd i think yeah

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do i return for that hearing or how does that work

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you know so it's not it's just oh 20th i'm sorry not the 22nd it's the 20th um

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so you you could be here if you want but we're not taking any additional testimony

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we're just voting on the matter um well it's you responded writing yeah yeah okay thank you

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Number 5, MI 2025-003-384-4860, Lancaster, Abbott.

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4860 Lancaster Avenue Sherman Toppin is the attorney

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Sherman Toppin is...

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let me come on back in as a panel with provisos from the RCO good morning members of the board

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good morning council afternoon um could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer

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yes um my name is Sherman Toppin I'm here represent oh last name spelled t-o-p-p-i-n

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I'm here representing the applicant for the Lancaster LLC do you swear or affirm to tell

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the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do our voice chair has just a few questions

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good evening have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing

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i have and do you waive the reading of the refusals and stipulate to their accuracy

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yes all right thank you you can share your screen and proceed okay

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once i'm not seeing

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i am i'm not seeing the button to share green you don't see the green button on the bottom

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yeah of course i've done this one looks like there's something going on the green you don't

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see the green button on the bottom i do but when i hit it it's not looking at my second

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my window i think you have to open them first right then you go to the green button yeah

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it's open it's open chair let's see here what's going

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yeah okay so sherman why don't i do this why don't i go to my uh last case and then we'll

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come back and see how you make out okay i can figure that out one second all right

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so let's go to number seven mi 2023 007 178 1710 north buvier street zen jinn is the attorney

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in a man unanimous support from beach community services and a letter of non-opposition from

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council member young

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then

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good afternoon can't uh board here there you go i know we don't i don't

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I usually see you by this time of the day.

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So could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, Zen Jin, Z-H-E-N, last name J-I-N, here on behalf of the applicant.

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All right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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But you identify who your client is and the relationship they have to the property?

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Yes, my client's Mr. Alex Coppa, the owner of the property.

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And our vice chair has a few questions.

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Good evening.

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have you submitted your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing

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oh okay you but wait we can't hear you zen said we can't hear you zen zen we can't hear

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oh yeah headphone uh okay yes all right something there okay and do you waive the reading of the

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refusal and stipulate to its accuracy i do all right thank you you can share your screen and

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proceed thank you i will share with the board what was previously submitted in this case

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it should be coming up in one second can the board see my exhibit yeah thank you

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this is an application for a new construction in an rm1 district my client proposes a duplex

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at this location the variances are dimensional in nature this block on north bovier street

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A lot of the properties that are currently built have six-foot rear yards.

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My client is simply looking to have the same depth rear yard in his proposal.

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It is smaller than what is permitted in the district.

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As you can see, they all relate to each other in that a six-foot yard is a smaller square foot,

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and therefore more coverage of the occupied area.

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All three refusals relate to each other.

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we met with beach uh regarding this matter uh they are

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in support this uh part of bovier street again with the existing

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in support this part of bovier street again with the existing buildings generally being relatively

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deep having small rear yards it is not inconsistent with what is already built in the area in fact

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we would be lined up with this building you see in this photograph here as far as depth is concerned

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and even the existing building itself which is a two-story existing structure that is going to be

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demolished it is also not a hundred percent conforming with the nine nine foot rear yard

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requirements so the existing building is very old it this is the existing conditions inside

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it'll be demolished and a new structure built in its place the new building will be a three

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story structure which actually essentially is what are on the block now for the most part

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everything on the block is now three stories so we'll be matching uh what is currently on the

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block as far as height is concerned uh the main thing about the property that's a little different

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than some of the other ones on the block is that we do have a side alleyway between us and the

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property next door that allows rear access by both units occupants so trash will be stored in the

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back uh in the enclosed yard and the occupants have a wide enough alley which actually you can

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see in the photograph here uh this once the building's complete it'll be gated uh to make

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sure that it's safe there will be lighting to make sure that it's lit so that occupants can safely

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access it to the back but trash will be stored in the back and brought out front uh at the uh

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on the days that trash will be picked up the my client actually is very active in the area in

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managing trash cleaning the street he does own other properties in the area so he makes a trip

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around to make sure that he cleans all his properties regularly it's part of the reason

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beach supported him strongly and also the councilman's office supported him because he is

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he has been working closely with the community to make sure trash is not an issue at any of his

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properties uh with the layout of the building it is a standard uh three-story structure uh the

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first floor and cellar would be or basement would be one unit and then the second floor and third

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floor would be the second unit uh the bedrooms are located on the first floor there's one in

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the front one in the back with the kitchen dining essentially the basement which all those marked

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The storage can be used as additional living space, rec room, with additional storage in the back.

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Mechanicals are in the basement, along with washer and dryer.

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The upper floor unit has three bedrooms and a den in the back of the second floor.

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It also has access to the roof deck via Pilot House.

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The roof deck is only accessible by the second unit.

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it is not accessible by the lower unit on the first and basement levels that is essentially

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the layout we are here primarily for the dimensional variances to the rear of the property

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and again we're seeking a three-foot variance from the required nine foot setback

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for the rear yard and it is again consistent to quite a few of the properties already on the block

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and i believe my client is here to verify my testimony uh and i'm certainly happy to answer

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any questions relating to this project what's your client's name uh alex copa alex copa yep copa yes

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we're coming back in as a panel for the council with the chair

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hello hi could you please sorry could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer

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my legal name is alexander copa o-l-e-k-s-a-n-d-r last name is copa k-o-p-a you swear or affirm to

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tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes i do sir could you please turn on your

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video i'm trying to right now i don't know what's going on oh there you go you're on okay counsel

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thank you um mr copa did you see uh what i presented on the screen to the zoning board

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and hear my testimony yes i did can you verify what i have represented to the board is true

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and correct and adopt it as your own testimony yes thank you questions from the board can you

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zoom zoom out so we can see all the floor plans yes is this better yeah that's better so now

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so you said they have access the first floor has access to there's an alleyway is that an alleyway

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so you said they have access the first floor has access

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that's shared by the neighbor next door or is that or is the or is the property line three feet

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who should answer the question myself for the attorney you can answer it alex if you know for

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sure okay so that is a fire alley uh it's uh accessible to uh all the buildings from 1710

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all the way to 1724 north bovier i believe and plus 1708 north bovier that is a three

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feet uh white alley that goes alongside the building and there is a three feet fire alley

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in the back that goes along parallel to the north bovier street okay so when you say you're going

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to have a gate on that alley how are you going it's it's a it's a it's a special gate with a quick uh

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quick set release basically in case the people have to evacuate in emergency there is no lock

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there or padlock all they have to do is just press on the push bar and the gate opens up okay and

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this is you so all the other buildings still have access to this alley uh yes okay now the gate that

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is there it was not installed by me uh i don't know who installed it but it's been there forever

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as far as i remember is that that three foot looks like a three foot gate yeah it's almost

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like a fence yes yeah but yeah that's that's no real security other questions

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questions from our attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr chair questions from the virtual

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audience do not see any hands mr chair planning commission amy board with the planning commission

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the comprehensive plan recommends no change the current r1 residential multi-family zoning

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the appellant has not shown that there are unique physical conditions or circumstances

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of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code

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the planning commission recommends that the board deny the requested variance for rear yard depth

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three yard area and occupied area mi 2025 007 178 17 10 north bouvier street i vote yes

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michael johns my vote is yes cheryl gaston my vote is yes tenetta graham my vote is yes

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my vote is yes thank you council thank you thank you very much um thank you um sherman toppin please

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I'll be coming back in shortly Mr. Chair thank you I appreciate it

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good afternoon member of the board how are we making out okay I I think we are but we have

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a backup plan my client who is Thomas Pender he is a cat he is uh he is okay so I think if I

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remember correctly you stated your name and I already swore you in did you talk to our

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vice chair too right i i did i did i didn't talk about share i was at the share screen point but

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i would ask that thomas pender be advanced co-panelists to share his okay sure why don't

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you send him on and i'll talk through the exhibits as he scrolls yep

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using my dad's computer so there's something not quite right about it

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mr top and who did you want promoted uh mr thomas pender thank you

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mr pender is now promoted to panelists and can share

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hey good afternoon members of the board once again sorry for the technical difficulties and

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inconvenience there but i'm pleased to be representing mr thomas pender who is a member

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of 4860 lancaster llc which is the owner of the structure that's in front of you that you see

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pictorially here and if you can scroll down on one page mr pender will begin our presentation

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so our typical exhibit package contains quite a few things although you see there where it says

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applicant white horse white horse tavern at the time of the the architect filed it they put that

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there but we have a deed showing that the property has been transferred to 3860 lc as exhibit number

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two we waived the reading of the refusal but we want to mention that in our agreement with the

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rco there's two if you can scroll down once mr pendle to the refusal this particular case had

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This particular case had involved two refusals, one further down, just to see the refusal language.

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involved two refusals.

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Yes, the property was refused for two reasons.

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One, section 14-6045, which is concerning roof decks, and the second was table 14-7013, which was dimensional.

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In our agreement with the community, we have agreed to drop and redesign the building as we have in the plans to remove the roof deck request, making this a dimensional only application for height.

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So as a matter of right, the building can be 38 feet in height as permitted by the zoning code.

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And we are proposing a fourth floor, which would raise the building to 45 feet in height.

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and that is the only so if you can scroll down mr pender to really exhibit five exhibit two is the

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deed which i mentioned that you still you'll see the deed there um our client is the owner of the

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record we have the project information sheet number five just kind of gives you a sense from

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the at this elevation you can see the block is zoned uh cmx2 and our our in the pink in the red

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square there you see the subject property opposite our property is um icmx um imcmx there and it's a

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like a dollar store and every on all the properties fronting on lancaster in this very in this

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commercial area are one to three story structures that are all commercial on the first floor or

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commercial in generally so the property what we're using the property if you can scroll down once

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more uh we want to there's an image there just how the property and the block is being utilized

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there at lancaster avenue you can see on the top there all the residential uses are behind

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the property there's uh several vacant lots for them thompson street and style street

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and uh west yard you see that that's where the residential homes are but fronting on lancaster

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avenue on both sides of the subject property are all commercial uses and uh and and every structure

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is different. And if you can scroll down further, Mr. Fender, you can kind of see this. This is

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again a Google shot giving you a sense of subject property in relationship to its surrounding

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rooftops. There's just a few properties to the left and two to the right. On either side of the

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subject property, the red box there, are churches. And we have support. One, the church that's the

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larger rooftop is closed and it doesn't have they're not meeting but on the other side we have

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full support of that ministry and the numbers and further down the block is all commercial

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uses that have no objections or particular use as a restaurant and scroll down further

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so this is the view of the property looking to the left and the right see the subject property there

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uh white house the white horse bar is present there with the big white horse can't miss it

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coming down lancaster so we're going to be updating significantly the appearance of this

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struck of this front facade and the side facade as you can see it's got windows on the third on

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the third floor and it has it just has a dated and really a appearance that's going to be transformed

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by my client's proposed restaurant um and as you can scroll further down you can see what i was

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telling you earlier that every almost every house or every structure alone has a different appearance

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so there's not a single consistent appearance to match to even as you move further down the block

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you see that there's a gas station and there's no there's almost no two structures alike on this

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side of the street um and so scroll down further mr fender so let's look at so so some of these

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pictures and mr fender you can scroll through these as i talk these are images of as you enter

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the structure and as you move in these are exterior front pictures there's about 30 of these you can

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scroll down quickly so that this is the first floor when you open the front door you see this

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is the initial image of the existing bar that was there um serving clients and you can go through

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the reverse image of the same shot as this is the uh this is a prep area also on the first floor on

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the other side that bar wall and as you go down there'll be more pictures of the bar you can scroll

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down through so this again this is a wider shot of that the bathroom on the first floor all of

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this will be updated and renewed as you will see in the plans uh lower down this is again the first

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back of the first floor is this here and that back door goes through the street in the rear

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climbing the steps you get to the second floor and this is that stairway going up and this is what

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you see on the second floor from the landing um from this as you can see this image will be

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transform two um into a very elegant restaurant space continue on and you can kind of ease it

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restaurant space continue on and these are just more pictures of the existing

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interior as it currently is building the bar has been out of use for some time

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and as you go to the fourth third floor you have this the third third floor is

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relatively is completely really not finished they may have started to do

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some things years and years back and they're finished as you look out third

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floor through the window you see a space between the adjacent church and and the

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further grassy area are the homes in the rear and it's just more pictures looking down from the

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third floor going downstairs now this is again that prep area behind the first floor bar you get

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to the mechanical and the rear from the basement and it's just unfinished mechanical space all of

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this will be bathrooms and finished space in the new plan further on you can kind of go down so

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yeah that's what you've got one redeeming thing is back to electrical updating and this is the

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rare visual of the building this will also be transported this is two stories it will go four

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stories up and be completely renewed looking from the back and with security lights and now going

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into our exhibits let's uh let's begin there now mr fender you may have to make your you can scroll

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down mr fender on number seven i think we're going into the plans uh we'd like to make those smaller

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so we look forward to see what we're looking at so as you scroll down from this page

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you will see that this is the existing conditions of the building except for the picture that's

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that's the new elevation i will i will make one notation here um from a standpoint of what we

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planned um this elevation this 3d view that you see to the left is going to be it almost seems

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that there's a second a second floor was an open two-story with an open two-story on ceiling root

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clear this will this will possibly be to a maximum but supposed to be two solid floors so there'll be

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a floor of the floor will run to the rear of the building so each floor will be the extent of the

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footprint of the building I'm not as pictorial as not as shown here I think this was an old pitch

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they didn't swap out but so the existing pitch of this otherwise shows the existing conditions of it

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let's move down to what would be and what is proposed as you scroll down from here mr bender

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all right um so this gives you as let's just start from the basement up so from the basement up um

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you can see that there's just a rare unfinished closed space but you'll have bathrooms down

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where we go this is an area where there'll be bathrooms and just storage in the elevator

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there'll be an elevator added to this building so there's mostly mechanical storage and just

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bathrooms in the basement as you go into the first floor it will have a similar presence as

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the current first floor when you walk in there's the going to be you know the barn and a bar with

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tables for seating um as you move back there's going to be a bathroom then elevator then of

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course, and then there's the commercial kitchen, which will serve as the food preparation for the

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building here in the rear of the first floor. So scrolling down a little further to the second and

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third, scroll down a bit, Mr. Fender. Okay, yes, just to give a third and fourth view. So as you

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walk up the stairs and take the elevator, you'd be able to see that there's going to be bathrooms

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closed, a lounge area, table seating, more table seating style on the third floor. And the fourth

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floor is more being it's conceived as the event space area where there's more there's i guess the

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way it's going to be configured there'll be group settings where people will have private group

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settings and served in that and these these are square clusters here and the additional seating

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proposed in the rear of the building in fourth floor the roof is going to be pretty fascinating

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in this particular building because it's going to be an entire glass ceiling um just locked i think

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there'll be a lot of a picture maybe two feet going from front to back but it'll be it'll

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ultimately look up out at the so it's a complete glass ceiling proposed here and from the second

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and third floor there will be uh if you go to you scroll down further mr fender you can see that the

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entire second and third floor there's perceived to be glass windows in which you can see a direct

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view unstructured straight to the philadelphia skyline from this map which is why they conceived

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it this way and these are the existing second floor windows will remain and um to move down

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the elevations are all they'll are all pretty much in keeping with what we just said from the

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front there's going to be a bump out um that it's from and that it's sort of a triangular bump out

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and that goes out to four feet and down to one and that would kind of give that would give a

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view looking towards the center city direction that would bump out and this will be the presence

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that people will sleep in the front and from the rear again complete glass a glass

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and from the rare again complete glass glass or almost a glass walls for the second third floor

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giving unobstructed views over those two-story structures that are behind the house to the

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photograph skyline moving down to number eight you can make it bigger and dependable so we did

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have a meeting with the we've had two actually meetings with the rco and we've come to an

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agreement with them regarding this particular plan um there they were they had a hiccup was

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the roof deck and the noise that could potentially be there uh towards the back rear homes which we

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went in an agreement with the community removed and instead made those solid

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sorry solid floors that don't have any roof or exposure to the outside and because of that we

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were able to seek the agreement of pretty much the uniform agreement on the of the 51 folks there

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the 24 affected there's only one opposition and 24 in support why we have a letter of support

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and just to finish our presentation here if you scroll down this defender we've got we have um

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you can scroll down further and send it to the next exhibit yes we these are you can scroll

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really quickly through these this has just been the addresses that we served um you can keep

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scrolling down this pendant um that and then these are the certificates of mailing for each

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of these addresses about 150 125 i think it was all together keep scrolling you keep just scrolling

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down through all of these and i think we have if you and here are posting the zba notice of

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close images and also twice over two existing front entrances we also posted on the rare

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as well you can see that there's postings on the rare and then finally we have our um we

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have our tax search for the owner of the property which is 4860 lancaster avenue and and we have

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our letter we also get a petition between rco meetings relating to it we have additional

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signatures of support from members of the community around this property and this will

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go on for several pages I think we have about 20 or 20 signatures from different

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members of the community and that community immediately right behind the

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property and those who go to the church next to it and this was the this last

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exhibit here is the meeting somewhere through ZVA so with that and since Mr.

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Pender is scrolling for us the exhibits I'd like to ask Mr. Pender a few

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questions relating to my testimony on behalf of his llc um and mr fender have you been listening

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to all that i said on your behalf uh during this last few minutes hold on hold on is she one again

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the owner you're bringing the owner on right uh yes and mr mr pender's the owner he's

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sure i just want to swear him in when he gets on oh i'm sorry i'm sorry

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yes i heard everything hi sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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thomas pender t-h-o-m-a-s pender p-e-n-d-e-r do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the

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whole truth nothing but the truth yes counsel oh yes mr pender have you been um on the call here

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and listening to my testimony on your behalf these last several minutes yes and from what i've said

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do you agree that the testimony i've said has been accurate and complete yes and is there anything

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you'd like to add to something that i have not mentioned no okay and would you accept this

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testimony as your own yes any questions we'd love to questions from the board

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okay what are we doing about uh the venting for uh this space

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um i believe you said that um venting venting venting as as uh hvac venting

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no you've got a commercial kitchen for the cooking for the kitchen oh i i see i see yes

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if you can go to miss miss bender if you can scroll up to that i think we can perhaps we

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can figure this part out to when we get the commercial kitchen area but i just saw it

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Okay, so here's the commercial, if you could make that just bigger, Mr. Fender, so we can focus in on the kitchen portion of it.

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okay here so this again this is a pictorial layout of what is proposed here but what i'm

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and i can only say what i i'm assuming will will be taking place here is that

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they will be these will be dented to the outside through their rear exact exterior brick wall

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these will be dented to the outside through their rare exterior brick wall.

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Not through the roof?

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I would not imagine that they would take, well, whatever the code permits,

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like again, that gets it out of a little bit of where I'm,

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but if it has to go through the roof, there's ways it can get there

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because it was already a commercial kitchen in this exact same space.

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um so and i don't think they're so where it's the venting now is that on here okay so if you

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go to the original pictures the original pictures mr pender further up doors i want to see where

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you want to go through this okay further up right further down further down okay yeah you you should

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know you should know better than me yeah just the first floor here first floor okay this is the space

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where the the larger commercial kitchen will ultimately will be and i strike what i said

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earlier anything here where the commercial kitchen will be but the existing kitchen the existing

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kitchen is what i was talking about asking for i think yeah right here is this not well this is

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just uh this is just well this is the existing prep here was there a there was right next to

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that that um sink i'm trying to see you so it's back here but there's not like a picture of it

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oh i i see so do you remember how the venting is i see i see the grill back there where the arrow

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Do you recall, Mr. Fender, how that tape on the grill is vented?

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So that I'm unsure of, and there's a hood there, so I'm not sure where it runs to.

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But from what I understand, the plan was to vent everything out the back wall.

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Okay.

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But what Ms. Gaskin is stating is that if you're building codes, it is required to vent out through the ceiling, and your ceiling is proposed to be glass.

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Would it be the plan?

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I'm not.

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I'm not.

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Was that you?

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making a representation about where i'm making a representation i'm just asking where are you

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planning to do the venting once you do this addition of this property like currently it's

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you you you're saying it's going through the back but i'm not sure where um but you know usually the

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venting goes through the roof is the is the roof going to be glass like the I see the windows is

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the roof going to be glass too or how is this going yes if you if you scroll down to the plans

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with Lucas what is proposed from an aesthetic standpoint that the roof would be these glass

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window panes these glass panes there there is but there is still space alongside and there's

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the elevator so there will be the pilot house of the elevator here but there is space alongside

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where venting would still occur on the on the side but this is again posed in scale perhaps

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i would imagine if there was any issue concerning the code the scale of these windows would be

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It's a tale to enable any venting that will have to happen through the main booth.

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Okay.

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And I guess, okay.

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So, okay.

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Capacity.

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How many people do you have in there at this time?

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And how many more people are you planning to have in this space once you do this addition?

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Currently, the restaurant is closed and only occupied the first two floors.

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Whatever the building code limits it to, the fire code limits it to, is where the building is limited.

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I don't think, I'm not sure if Mr. Fender has a better estimation of the capacity.

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uh do you mr timber um what about tables how many table spaces do you think you might serve

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uh maybe 10 15 per floor depending on the size

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okay okay thank you all the questions

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questions or comments from our attorney um mr poppin i just wanted a little clarifications

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on the the plans because the rco asked for no roof deck and you took the roof deck out right

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yes okay what so instead of the was the roof deck above the fourth floor

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or was it behind the fourth floor above the third floor uh if you um

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behind the fourth floor above the third floor uh if you um if you can scroll mr tender to the

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existing the existing uh that will give us a better look at that oh no further down further

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sorry further down to the plans yes uh the existing conditions of the plans it was the second gauge

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basically the roof deck was going to be over the second floor and the original the

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your plans have a page further up in the surface just slightly up further yeah further up further

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yeah here here so here this this is a work this area if you look at the existing third floor

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it says open to below so the roof deck would have been in this lounge area on top the second floor

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and the third was building up stop behind the third floor okay yes it would be it would be

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behind this will be it would be at the second floor and the third floor would stop short um

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and it would be open to below for the top two floors got you okay so so the the reason i was

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asking is just so if you're not having the roof deck were there any are there any changes

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dimensionally to the envelope of the structure because you remove the roof deck and put it in

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put in the lounge area instead to just i'm trying to determine if if the board approves this if we

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need to um if there should be revised plans that we stamped or if we just proviso you know no no

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roof deck and then you submit revised plans to lni that don't show a roof deck just trying to figure

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out what the board would need to do i understand um the way the way we we are we're not in we're

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not looking to increase the building envelope any dimensionally not even mention this it'll simply

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stack um two floors on top the second floor there's already a half floor of a third floor existing

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and there'll be almost i guess a floor and a half placed on top of the existing structure

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is what is proposed okay is there no is there i'm sorry is there another sheet that sorry go ahead

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no no you you you go ahead you asked your question is there another sheet that shows

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the fourth floor oh yes if you could scroll down mr fender i think you might hold it slow slow the

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first and second third there it is okay so it says stacked it's stacked on the fourth third

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all four floors will be of equal size what's the plan for the third and the fourth floor

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Or is it only going to be rentable by people who are hosting an event?

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Or will there be sort of general bar service there on typical night?

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And why don't you give us some of your vision for the top two for those?

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So it would be also used for like a restaurant, depending on how packed we are, and an event space.

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And it would be like a lounge area for everyone.

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so okay but looking at the third floor and the fourth floor plan it's all lounge furniture

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so is the idea that if i came in for dinner on a tuesday night i might eat dinner on the

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couches on the third floor or would that only be yes sorry the engineer just placed things there

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just for the look of it we didn't quite we didn't tell him to sit the chairs and things of that

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nature he just put that into the picture when he did it as a design i understood that so then what

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for like what is your current plan as the operator so i would be putting like actual places so you

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can actually sit and eat some some would be couches like we have like when you sit your

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back and there be chairs on the other side so you can sit and eat but as well as you can have

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regular table service yes okay and so when it's not an event like what's the plan for the lounge

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side that part i haven't quite figured out like between like the rco meeting at the ars yes so

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i when you're saying that you mean like moving the furniture out of the way or

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no i mean like typically neighbors have comments about lounge uses so i was just wondering showing

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that this is a four floor plan for a restaurant lounge and event space and nothing that has come

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up so far in your testimony has addressed typical things that neighbors care about i'm wondering

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has it been discussed uh it was i i could yeah yes um um this way it was discussed as to how

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the whole structure would be used because although they have the top floors are mostly on glass and

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are going to be event-ish in nature the the upper floors were a question because the existing bar

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was mainly the first floor only

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was mainly the first floor only and the second floor was in as you can see in this plan was the

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and the second floor was

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as you

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typical restaurant as you move up as it gets busier these upper floors i guess the way mr

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pender put it if there was no events that day nothing happens on the fourth floor at all

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it's just it's a reservation only booked um area up top but the third floor is more is kind of a

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hybrid the way it was talked about the visit there is a big bar in the middle the tables and an

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additional seating might fill in this back area either in the configuration of six tables or just

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an open standing um lounge situation just depending on the demand so there was conversation

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along that line about how the restaurant might fill up if it wasn't busy and I think you mentioned

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like on tuesday when it's not busy these top floors may not be utilized that that was that

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was at least okay so then what were their comments because you were i mean you're adding a a floor to

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what was already there yes so the comments i can summarize that's where we get into the negotiation

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of no roof deck on the second floor because the comments were there might be noise if that if

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that restaurant pours open to on top the third second floor and there's there's noise in that

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on that uh if you do an event that's sort of an outdoor patio event then that noise would

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overflow into the community and that's where we negotiate the community to enclose the second the

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rare third and fourth floor so there would be no food deck at all so that was the nature of

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conversations relating to the rare of the property okay but so currently as proposed this would still

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They'll be all four floors would be fully utilized as typical operations.

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Yes, if that can be asked.

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Okay.

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Any other questions?

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Yes.

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And you did say this was right next door to a church, right?

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Two.

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There's a church on either side.

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One closed and one open.

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Oh, okay.

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And then those churches are okay with this expansion?

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the the one that's operating the the open one they were pretty excited because they they do a lot of

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events at their church involved in catering so they envisioned utilizing the space for events

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that the church can't um accommodate of a social nature so that was that was why we got so much

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much of that many of the signatures on our petition of the members of the church next door

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okay thank you and um was there any discussion at the rco meeting about parking

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or the lack thereof yes there was there was there was talk about parking and because the existing

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bar was a walk-up bar from the community and this bar this takes it to a bar plus restaurant

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configuration there was conversation about you know there's no parking space here how would that

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the accommodated and then the conversation was this our client has right across the street is

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a dollar store that closes at nine i think i don't know there i think it closed in the nine

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o'clock time frame so anything that would that is an empty parking lot clients going to pursue

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getting an arrangement to park there there'll be valet parking also that he's working out for

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different folks and all of the rest there's another restaurant one block down that is also a walk up

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bar restaurant and they have also dealt with the same situation of people who bring in

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walking from the community behind and that has not been that was not referring to the crab shack

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that is mostly takeout no well there was no there's a bar in the next block not

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okay all right i don't think i don't think it's that but um but no that they discussed that you

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You know, the bulk of churches on either side operate on Sunday only, and they make it together.

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I hear you.

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I think my one comment is that that's a very congested corridor.

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Like, from Lancaster, Belmont, like, if they're, Gerard, if there is any kind of traffic, it is, like, right at that intersection.

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And so, and I don't know how long it's been since that bar opened, but as a person that drives past it, almost every day of my life,

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i don't remember ever seeing anybody going into that establishment in the 17 years that i've been

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here um not to say that they weren't i just didn't notice it so i am like wondering like how this is

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going to uh you know fit in with the flow of traffic and people that are already over there

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um and and sort of what's your plan but it sounds like it's you're moving towards having agreement

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with the dollar store and potentially the laundromat and the churches to try to have a formal

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dollar store and potentially the laundromat and the churches to try to have a formal agreement

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to utilize their parking spaces yes that's correct and the community was pretty excited

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about having a restaurant of what is hopefully of the caliber discussed at this spot most of

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the restaurants along that corridor in that in those three blocks or walk up you know take out

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You can't dodge and take it to a family event at those other places.

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So they like the idea.

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And then having that viewpoint to the skyline was a selling point.

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And again, I guess this would be the last thing.

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But that was really my question about capacity.

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It's like you're talking about putting a lot of money into this expansion of this business and there doesn't appear to be a real idea of how many people are really going to utilize this place.

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whether the you know in the end the the cost uh is going to be covered by um the clientele

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that frequents the place so people may be excited about the idea that doesn't necessarily mean that

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they're going to frequent the place and and this is going to need two you know four floors here

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i mean again i'm not sure about how many people you're talking about having because

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when i asked the question i didn't get it well i think it doesn't l and i set the number of people

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yes yes you gotta you gotta get the l and i first to see what they'll let you have right

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all right any other questions questions from our attorney not anymore mr chair questions from the

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the virtual audience you're not seeing the hands with the chair planning commission

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Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the CMX2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location. The appellant has not demonstrated that there are unique physical circumstances or conditions of the property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code. The Planning Commission recommends that the Board deny their requested variance for height.

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mi2025-003-384-4860

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Lancaster Avenue

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I vote yes

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Michael John

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my vote is yes

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Cheryl Gaston

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my vote is yes

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Tanetta Graham

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my vote is yes

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Iowa and my vote is yes

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thank you Sherman

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thank you to your client

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is there anyone in the audience

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whose case has not been called

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where's Ian at by the way

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there are no hands Mr. Chair

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thank you

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What happened to our 345 dismissal today?

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I mean, where are we being in Hagerty?

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Our short agenda, what happened?

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Well, let me shut this off.

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It started, it went bad when we had one part of the thing

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and we had like 16 people to testify at one part.

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Right.

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Whew.

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Great job.

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