No. I was basing it on what you said as it relates to population. I was using your language. I probably agree with it. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Right. The origin came from myself, along with my executive staff and the Planning Commission when we went through this last year.
Yes. I am very concerned about the use of sort of world class words like outsourcing to explain a deepening crisis in the City's inability to function like a first class City. When it comes to economic development we're told constantly Philadelphia's got to be a first class City, but everywhere else we're turning ourselves into a backwards City. There are too few 1285 services of every kind, and now we've hit apparently the line where we're cutting off workers from their jobs. I want to know, how many workers were actually laid off? I think you used the example of plumbers being outsourced in direct testimony about a half hour ago? Was it the plumbers? Who was it that you said were outsourced? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: It's turf management, the grass cutting during the peak season of the year, Your Honor.
Has anybody made a study as to how much money was saved, if any at all? Because outsourcing often results in much higher costs because emergencies are common, and usually when you outsource you're not ready for them and you pay through the nose. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I appreciate that question. I thank you for presenting it. I too presented the exact same question when it was presented to the Department and we began the process because I know some kind of way mysteriously the costs 1286 will begin to increase. And before we made the final decision to move forward on it, I had to have that question answered. I want to say there's approximately a million to a million-and-a-half dollars that will be a savings to the City in the next five years, being this next coming season being the first year. It was also very successful with the Fairmount Park, and that's why we decided to reduce the redundancy as well. Also, we did not lose any permanent part-time employees by doing this. It was seasonal employees. Also, with not just the $1.5 million savings, but under our capacity, we were only able to get to the grass once every three weeks, and with the contract and savings, the grass will be cut once every two weeks. I agree with you. My goal is to make sure that if this thing starts to creep back up, somebody needs to give us an answer for it so we can adjust accordingly.
Do you have any written documentation of the results that you 1287 indicated exist? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, we have all of that back in the office, sir.
Is it available in such a form that a copy can be presented to the President here for circulation? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, Your Honor.
I'd like to request of getting into a debate on it here. I'd like to ask the Commissioner if he'd be kind enough to send the material to the President's office for circulation to Councilmembers. Very frequently the first couple of months, things are honey. But thereafter, the problems begin to develop. I think we all have to watch that because I don't think you accomplish too much when you take 10 facilities and cut them to seven. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. The fact that you reduced down to seven is not necessarily evidence of progress. It may be evidence that we need money for other purposes or are using 1288 money for other purposes, whether needed or not. In order to provide money for other services, which may not be nearly as important to Philadelphians as the providing of recreational services, we may lose much more than we ever gained. So if you provide that, we'll have the first working example. The reason I ask for that kind of evidence is it's common for us when a developer comes here -- and it's uniformly applicable apparently -- we're always told that the development, while it's costly to the City, it's going to provide 312 or 417 or 33 or 2,000 over ten years numbers of jobs. We have yet to see the first evidence of any gains. Once a promise is made and the contract is signed, then people get very hesitant and say, well, we didn't say that there would be jobs. We said there would be a chance. So we're getting used to seeking proof now. Commissioner, I wanted to commend you for your action and your role as the 1289 Fairmount Park Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. We already spoke to the press about this -- the spray parks. They caught us on our way in. With regard to the lots or areas that you are selling off, do we contact the Redevelopment Authority or you if we have interested buyers? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: There's a City-wide committee that is being chaired out of the MDO's Office. Jim Donaghy came to the mike earlier. He's the representative out of it, but it's spearheaded there and also through Public Property by Commissioner Schlotterbeck and her team. Our responsibility is to communicate with the Councilmembers, along with the community as well, to either justify or not justify making a business decision on either 1290 selling or leasing a property. Once that piece is done it goes over to that City-wide Committee for the process. Those were some of the challenges that Councilman DiCicco was expressing earlier about the time that has been transpiring.
Absolutely. Certainly we want to thank you, your entire team. Carlton Williams, with whom we're working another venue, and certainly all of you for the fine job you do and the creative work that you performed in our City, City-wide, and your goals in trying to make recreation a real experience for kids throughout our City. Thanks to you, Carlton, Carapucci, Deputy Commissioner and Beverly, thank you. Thank you all, the entire recreation team. Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you. I have one final question. Sacks Playground, a year or so ago I met with some community people about the possibility of eliminating the pool and 1291 creating a water park. What's the Department's position on that? Has there been any other further discussion within the Department? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We're very open minded to entertain it based on your leadership and the services by the community.
For the record, I'm willing to initiate those discussions again. I don't know if you have a slide presentation or something that people can look to understand it a little bit better. Contact me. We'll set up a community meeting and we'll get this thing going. Thank you. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Fantastic. Yes, sir.
Councilman Nutter is next. Since he stepped out, Councilman Rizzo.
Madam Chair, I think my light is on. I already asked my question.
Thank you 1292 very much. Councilman DiCicco, do you have any further questions?
I do have a couple brief questions. I know it's your favorite subject, Commissioner, as it is mine for obviously different reasons. What was the appraisal? What did the appraisal come back on that property, Camp William Penn? I heard something around $90,000.
I thought there was a zero missing somewhere. Is that still an accurate appraisal?
We'd like Jim Donaghy to come back up and speak to that, please.
Jim Donaghy, Deputy Managing Director. Councilman, yes, that is still an accurate appraisal. However, we are taking a 1293 look at the possibility of subdividing Camp William Penn. I know we have several hundred acres up there and everybody was astounded when we announced that is was $900,000 last year. Most people thought it would be higher. A good portion of the property is what's considered wetland and un-developable. So that's why we want to take a look at subdividing. And we're working with PIDC. We're going to put a RFP out to developers to find out what type of interest we have in the property and a potential development for that site.
Thank you. Commissioner, you're requesting $278,889 for FY '06 for four full-time employees. Does that include the employees who are the year-round employees up there, who live up in the general area of Camp William Penn? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We're starting Camp William Penn. Yes, sir. That is our camp director, Michael Shelton, who's 1294 here with us today. Also the Camp secretary, and there's two full-time caretakers, one that lives on the property to protect it from poaching and also vandalism and fire. They do all the work year round, winterize, they do plumbing, they do roofing, washing machines and dryers, bathrooms and the whole bit. The rest of the staff is seasonal.
I recently saw on television -- I'm not certain if it was our public broadcasting station or one of the major networks 3, 6 or 10, advertisements for employees who are interested in working at Camp William Penn. Are you familiar with that? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: It may be. I haven't seen that one yet. I know we've been trying to run the television that we did three years with the help of Temple on the lifeguards. Mike may know.
I'm just curious what it's costing us to do that advertisement.
Michael Shelton, 1295 Director of Camp William Penn. I missed your question. I apologize.
I recently saw on television an advertisement for employment at Camp William Penn. Is that being run on the major networks?
And I see in your testimony, Commissioner -- again, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm just killing time until Councilman Nutter gets here, unless another Councilperson has a question.
You're looking to expand or create more camps, something to that nature? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes. I want to compliment Mike and Mary and the rest of 1296 the team as well. But Mike and Mary, I gave them a challenge last year about we only do four formal weeks and my challenge was to do more. So instead of having four eight-day encampments we're now going to have five week encampments. And I'm already trying to push him to see if I could do 6 five days next year. So that's the change that you're looking at, the difference. We're going to have one week of five days and we're going to have four weeks of six days, versus only four total weeks. So we're excited about that. The other added features of service that I need to compliment Michael on is in the testimony, you see where we're offering summer day camp opportunities and also overnight day camp opportunities, if interested, to the resident children of Pike and Monroe where the facility is actually located. So that is something that had not been done previously. We're very excited about that as well and it just made sense.
I appreciate your excitement, and I don't mean that 1297 sarcastically and all the good work that's done. But you hit a sore spot. You and I, we get along quite well. When we talk about providing summer camps for kids up in Pike County and all, that's where you and I really differ on this Camp William Penn program. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We can answer that. Michael, would you share with Mr. Councilman what the cost will be for those services to be delivered versus non-deliverable services where it will not only cover the cost but also create revenue as well?
We are initially starting out at 85 to 90 percent of our slots this summer will go to Philadelphia kids. Philadelphia youth will all be our priority, but we're looking 10 percent to 15 percent local youth and we're going to charge them double the cost of what it costs.
At this point Camp William Penn for the youth of Philadelphia is $70.
$70 a week for a Philadelphia resident and it will be $140 for a non-Philadelphia resident?
How does that compare to other private camps in terms of the cost? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That's a great question. We're still too cheap.
Most private camps, you're ranging $450 to $500. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: A week.
No disrespect to the kids in Pike County. But we're going to offer the kids in Pike County an opportunity to use a City of Philadelphia facility, that our budget provides for the year-round maintenance, employees and all the 1299 other things that are cost related, which I'm not even sure what that number is. I got the Class 100. I'm not sure what the other dollars add up to. And we're going to offer those kids up in Pike County an opportunity to go to a camp at less than half of what it would cost them to go to a privately run camp up in Pike County or in the general vicinity. I guess my question is, why when we're faced with this budget cut and all the things that we've been talking about for the last two, three hours, would we -- for me, that doesn't make business sense. Now, there's a moral issue to this and I understand that. You and I have discussed that, Commissioner, about providing inner-City kids with an opportunity to spend a week in the country and have all those amenities that typically urban children will not be entitled to. I guess I go back to my old statement of last year and probably the year before and the year before that is, that we have one of the most magnificent park systems 1300 in the country, Fairmount Park, which, if you were dropped out of a plane and you landed somewhere in the middle of Wissahickon Park you wouldn't think you were in a City. So I think we have the ability to provide similar types of structured activities, literally in our own backyard, without the expense. No 9 disrespect to the gentleman who works at Camp William Penn or the people who live there, the guy who lives there year round to make sure that the place isn't being vandalized. I just don't see the business sense in that, given the fact that we are fighting with this Administration. We have such a serious financial situation that we find ourselves in, that why we will continue to fund that Camp William Penn program, with all due respect -- I've said this a million times. I just don't understand that. I just don't see the benefit.
If $900,000 is 1301 the right number, although I think it may be low, there goes another million dollars, plus the million we raise with the Council President's lease and the $750,000 on selling Franklin Playground, we got our $2 million and you're fully funded in Class 100. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I wish Camp William Penn's budget was a million, but it's under --
No. I'm saying the sale of Camp William Penn property at $900,000 and the $950,000 from the lease of the Island Road facility in Council President Verna's district and the $750,000 from the sale of Franklin Playground, we're really close to $2 million. We're only a couple hundred thousand bucks away.
Notwithstanding the savings from the employees who are non-Philadelphia residents who take care of that place 365 days a year.
The Chair 1302 recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
What qualifies us to be tax exempt? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Let us find out legally what qualifies for it. But our finance officer tells us we don't pay any taxes.
So there's no 21 overhead or taxes or licensing or anything associated with Camp William Penn? I'm expanding my question. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Our costs are operational and maintenance driven, which are 1303 minimal. I want to go on record to say that I appreciate the leadership and all of the concerns relating to the camp. But I want to go on record to say that I am not willing or an advocate to discuss shutting down the camp. I'll hold the conversation. If I can go on the record, what I want to say is the camp has been undervalued. And this is one of the ways that we have been looking at bringing the camp to where it needs to be. There's also other features of service that we're looking to do. If I may say and expound on the undervaluement, you can't go anywhere else and get an experience like that for the cost. Also, our goal was to do the implementation the first year with Monroe and Pike to see if we were able to achieve it, and then the following year price it where it needs to be as well. As Michael said and I'll go on record to say, our number one priority is the delivery of service to the youth and the 1304 adults of Philadelphia County.
Commissioner, let's just talk about it, though, for a second. I hear what you're saying. I haven't looked at the detailed budget. Do the people that live there, do they pay any rent or any type of utility cost? I'd be curious. I guess PP&L is the electric provider up there. What's our electric bill for that place for a year? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I don't know. I'd have to get that for you.
You just say $300,000. That doesn't include all the utility costs and the City vehicles that are up there and all of that; am I right? Because you don't pay for your City vehicles. I think you have three or four units up there, that if you were appropriately being billed for those units they would be part of your budget, but they're not. Fleet Management pays for that. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: It would be a slight increase, yes.
Slight? How many 1305 vehicles are up there? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: There's one pick-up truck. We use a van that is located down here, and I know we have a back hoe and a front end loader up there. And I know there was one or two pieces of grass cutting equipment.
We're not trying to tell you to get rid of Camp William Penn. But I think in all fairness we have to get the real number of what it costs to operate that place. The electric. The fact that you've got people up there living maybe for free, maybe not for free. Maybe you pay for the utilities. There's a whole lot of things that you got to put it under a microscope and say, what's this deal really cost. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: So you'll know, Councilman, there's one gentleman and his wife that live on the grounds, and that's it.
But we have people that live in Fairmount Park houses that pay. 1306 COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That's fine.
Thanks. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I'm not against it. I'm not for it. I'm going to get you all of the stuff you're asking me.
All I'm trying to say is, we come up with these numbers, but they're not real numbers. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I will give you the cost of the fleet. Other than that, all of the costs that we presented to you today is every nickel in salary, every nickel in 200, every nickel we spend to feed all of the children. So the only cost that I don't have that I can present to you right now would be the electric bill and the vehicle cost.
And when it snows up there, because you have people living there, you must probably snow plow. You do things there that you wouldn't normally do at a resort in the Poconos that vacated in the wintertime, correct? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Only for the caretaking as people get out. 1307 One of the biggest challenges that we have up there is poaching and illegal hunting, so this employee does a lot of interaction with the Pennsylvania Game Commission and the local police. So you know, people also go there and try to harvest wood illegally and they do fires as well. So that's part of this person's responsibility.
I understand. I don't want to go there. All I'm saying is we really need to get a real number of what this place costs. There's technology now. There's security organizations that look after vacant land. I understand poaching, but I think the Game Commission should be responsible for that. Maybe not us. Maybe we're paying too much attention to a vacant property during the winter months. Thank you, Commissioner. Thanks, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Thank you, Mr. Councilman.
Mr. 1308 Carapucci, you indicated that there were going to be a number of employees that will be going out on DROP. Will they be going out on DROP next year?
They're continuing to go out on a continuing basis now. But during the next Fiscal Year there will be many going out. I'll have that number for you tomorrow. There's a long list of recreation leaders that will be leaving from now to the following June of '06.
Is there any indication as to whether or not you'll be able to replace them?
I noticed that in the Five-Year Plan, they have a constant number in the Five-Year Plan for 494. Can you hear me?
I'm sorry. I didn't hear your question. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We're sorry.
For '06. If in fact many of the employees, however many they are, go out on the DROP in '06, will you be able to hire replacements? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: My position is yes. I have asked to replace employees as needed as long as we maintain the certain level in --
The 494? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: -- the facilities that we have. The facilities that we have dictate what we need. I believe right now -- Carlton, you chime in to help -- we had five or six electricians, I believe. I believe we are down two or three right now. Yes, my expectation is to continue to ask to replace on need as people are tread out based on the level of responsibility that we still maintain.
We have 159 1310 facilities. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That's rec centers.
A, B, C. And then we have another facilities that we operate 7 seasonally for a total of 159. There's 50 As. 8 71 Bs, 28 Cs and 10 that are basically 9 seasonal operations. 10 COMMISSIONER RICHARD: For the record, from Jeff Cardwell who handles all of our properties that we have, he tells me he has on record 699 properties in our inventory.
Council President, I have the answer to how many people will be leaving. From April 1st of this year until June of 2006 in the program division there's another 18 people leaving.
And you have gotten a commitment from the Finance Department that you will be able to replace all of the 18?
1311 Commissioner? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We don't have that commitment yet.
You know, for years City Council has been advocating that we should hire additional maintenance personnel so that we can correct problems while they are manageable and therefore reduce the burden of the Capital Budget. Commissioner, would you agree with that? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, ma'am. I'll go on record again to say I agree.
During the Capital Budget, we asked Finance to look into the suggestion, and they said they would get back to us before the adoption of the budget. I would appreciate your contacting the Finance Director to offer your assistance in their review. You said you have 699 properties? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, ma'am.
And how many electricians did you say we have? 1312
So I'm assuming that the two roofers that we have simply can do patch work. They can't go out and do a complete replacement to a roof?
Right now we have nine carpenters. That's two building maintenance mechanics, five carpenters, and two carpenter group leaders.
I guess I'll reiterate what I said at the Capital Budget hearings. I think it's absolutely absurd that we put money into the Capital Budget, particularly in the Recreation 1313 Department, and we wait three or four years before something is actually done. I'm told that they stock pile the requests so that they can put them all out for bid at one time. If there is a roof to be replaced and if we don't replace it immediately, by the time we get around to getting a roofer to do it, the gym floor undoubtedly has been destroyed. The electrical work has been destroyed. I do believe from the bottom of my heart -- maybe I'm all wrong -- it would be much, much cheaper if the Recreation Department, for instance, had the roofers that we need, the electricians, the carpenters to deal with all of the problems. Because by the time we get around to repairing many of these facilities they're going to be ready for demolition. They're going to be ready for demolition. So, Commissioner, I would urge you to please get with the Finance Department and be part of that review. And we would like to have that information prior to the adoption of 1314 this budget. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, ma'am. And I'll get with our Budget Director, Ms. Reed, and also our new Managing Director, Mr. Ramos, and also Rick Tustin and the entire team. But thank you very much.
And if need be we'd be very happy to get involved with that. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Thank you.
So at the appropriate time, if you think that's necessary, I'd appreciate your letting me know. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, ma'am.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I know there's been a lot discussed today. I will struggle to ask a couple questions. What I wanted to know is, given 1315 what's been going on the past couple years, last year's, let's say, challenging hearings regarding the proposed closure of facilities and pools and a couple different lists floating around and all of that -- and somehow we got through the summer -- are there national standards for recreation services in the United States? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir, there are.
Who develops those standards? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: They're developed two-fold. The City Planning Commission, along with the National Parks and Recreation Association, which is the governing professional body for the parks and recreation's career track throughout not just the United States but throughout the entire country.
That would be the same, right? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes. I wanted you know that they just don't have 1316 jurisdiction or work in the US, but they work military bases, Canada, Japan, Germany, throughout.
And it's National Parks and Recreation what? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Association. NRPA. I'm sorry. National Recreation and Parks Association. I had one letter out.
The National Recreation and Parks Association. They develop the standards? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Right.
For where we are either now or where it's proposed that we would go, how would the City rank as compared to those national standards? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I can't tell you because I don't have the mental retention of what the standards are and where we are. I do have an analysis that has, I want to say, the top 20 or 25 cities in my office that I can make available to you. It's already done. It was work that we had done last year along with the leadership of our Planning 1317 Commission. It goes all the way from tennis courts, volleyball courts, the number of swimming pools. I can recall one number off the top of my head in that group study is that we have one pool for every 17,000 citizenship. I believe in that document the median is one for every 45,000. I'll get it back to you.
You said it was the top list? 12 COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I believe so, 13 yes. I have the document in my office. 14
Do you have any 15 recollection as to where we rank in that? 16 COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I haven't 17 looked at it since last year. No. I'll 18 provide it for you. I have it in the office. 19
Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I apologize. I don't have it with me.
I understand. I mean, it would seem to me that given the argument that we have an infrastructure for a certain size population 1318 and we don't have the population -- we don't have to have the debate this afternoon as to what happened to that population -- but based on your judgment or experience or professional activities, do you think that what is being proposed we could legitimately say to the citizens of this City that we have a first class recreation program? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I would answer that question yes and no. 12
I think you've covered yourself with that. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Well, I'm trying to give an honest answer. I'm going to the gist behind that. With the work that was done with our executive team and a lot of support staff and some our executives through the leadership of the Planning Commission -- because that's where it really comes from, out of the Planning Commission -- along with our agency's input, there are certain parts of the City that should have more or different types of facilities or equipment where other areas of 1319 the City may have an abundance or they're right at the bar. So in that work that we were doing last year in those documents that we produced, we have that. That's why I'm giving you the answer. In certain parts of the City, yes, we do have the right type of facility. Just to let you know, Your Honor, it's not just staff facilities, but it also encompasses green space, non-structured recreational stuff, so that's how detailed it is. So my answer is, in certain parts of the City, yes, and in certain parts, no. But where we do have it, it is being done right. The goal now is to keep us in a position to maintain it at the quality level it deserves to be.
You're going to send that report over to the Council President, right? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir.
How many kids will not be served this year as compared to last year based on your proposed budget and 1320 service cuts? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We're not proposing to lose any summer camps. Do you remember the number, Bill, off the top of your head?
I understand that. I'm not talking about just summer camps. We provide a wide variety of services, whether through summer camps, recreation activities, swimming pools, now spray pools. I guess I'm trying to understand, is your testimony that notwithstanding about 100 person loss in your overall operation, you're going to serve the same number of kids with the same variety of programs? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes. At this point right now.
How could you do that? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: A lot of the positions, sir, were in our seasonal operational people that dealt in our maintenance unit, which did not directly 1321 affect some of our program delivery.
It's going to affect the condition of the facilities. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Well, it won't affect it because most of that was in the grass cutting area. So the grass cutting is now being rolled over. I know employees 9 alone in that particular grouping dealt with 10 grass cutting. In the aquatic -- 11
You're talking 12 about 13 you let go or you're in the process 13 of letting go 20 full-time maintenance people? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: They were vacancies along with DROP and they were employees that normally were in our crews that dealt with the grass. We had different maintenance crews that dealt with the grass seasonally and also some of our un-staffed areas. We collapsed that unit along with one of the warehouses that we had demolished on 61st and Passyunk along as well. So that's part of it. The other part of it is the pools that are becoming spray grounds, right there 1322 alone that's 30 people. That's 27 employees right there, but we're still going to be able to deliver service.
I'm sorry. Give me those numbers again. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Well, the three pools that are being converted, that was 30 employees, each, off the top of my head, 10 plus adding one back, that's 27 net. That's 27 employees.
At a swimming pool what did the 10 people do? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Half of that staff was the life saving, the lifeguard staff.
Aren't they all seasonal? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir, that's correct.
So of the 10 people how many were full time? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: None of them, sir.
What's the 1323 actual cost savings from closing the swimming pool? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: $30, $35,000 a pool.
Let me make sure I'm understanding this. You're going to save $35,000 by closing a swimming pool, and then we're going to spend $200,000 plus for a spray pool. Are those the numbers? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir, that's correct.
Excuse me, Councilman. Commissioner, the Smith Pool, how much did you say it would cost to repair that? It was certainly a lot more than $30,000. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That is correct. There's two costs. There's operating cost as well as capital. The reference that Madam President is making to, the number that we received was a little over $600. I want to say $602,000 to refurbish Smith.
So you have 1324 $602,000 capital cost and then the $35,000 a year to run it? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir.
But that's a pool. And are all the pools that were closed in the same poor condition, I mean, required that level of capital expense? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes. Those three were. There was another that we have, but we're working with another Councilman on that one, and there's $900,000 price tag sitting on that one right now.
$900,000 price tag on what? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: To refurbish Athletic's pool.
So the pools that are being closed are all in poor condition and they're rehabilitation is at such an expense I guess as to be considered exorbitant? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That was one of the criteria, along with the volume and also the proximity to other facilities. All 1325 of those factors were presented in the decision process.
And what was the issue at Baker? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Baker last year was an issue relative to our total overall budget cut.
So it wasn't because of a refurbishing cost? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Not to my knowledge.
What did you save by closing Baker? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: The operational cost of the seasonal staff last year, approximately $30,000.
You had 10 people at Baker also? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That's our average. Do you know the exact number?
We average 10. Sometimes it could be nine, but it's never less than that. We always have four 1326 lifeguards minimum and five people. One night watchman and four other people that help around the gates, keep the area clean, PMAs.
Do you have any information just based on your own experience regarding the percentage of kids in the City who know how to swim? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I don't have that information.
Do you think the number will go up or the number will go down based on the fact that we're closing swimming pools? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I believe that the number can either go up or down based on how the children are directed with the services that we delivered. If I can explain that answer.
Well, it's a lot less likely that you'll learn how to swim in a spray pool than it is in a swimming pool, right? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Well, I appreciate what you're saying. I want to say 1327 that I don't agree with the statement that less children will be able to learn how to swim if there's less pools. What I want to go on record to say is that --
Where will they learn how to swim then? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: They will learn how to swim at a pool in the neighborhood, in the proximity of the neighborhood. If I may finish, we have formal year-round swimming and training opportunities for children and adults year round. So during the winter months, we may not have all of the 77 or 79 outdoor pools open, but we'll have the seven indoor pools open. Also, we have a formal presentation that we do with young children in the summer camps prior to them having their first experience called Whale Tails, which is a formal presentation for the children to learn how to act, not run and everything else. We also have an award winning program that's instituted in the Department 1328 that has been recognized statewide, our Swim for Life Program. So we have the capacity. We have those programs in place. We don't have the authority to, I guess, force the young children to formally get in. But we do have that capacity. My goal as the Commissioner is to never lose that capacity. My goal is also to make sure that we keep deep end pools as well, because I know we need to teach deep water rescue for our lifeguards as well.
Aren't we filling many of the deep ends in? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Two of the three were over 30-year-old pools that still had deep ends. I'm proud to say that the City in the early '90s began a national trend of taking out deep ends, diving wells, and that was taking place across. I believe we only have six or seven deep end pools that are left, and I believe we're planning to keep two or three for that training and for that capacity as well.
Let's go back to 1329 Baker for a second. You closed the pool. What's it going to be this summer? What are the opportunities for kids in that neighborhood? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Right now the pool is not scheduled to be reopened. That was part of our budget from last year. We would like to have the opportunity to build a spray ground there if we could.
But for the moment, since it's not in the refurbishment situation of $600 to $900,000 dollars, is your testimony that the only thing that's stopping Baker Pool in West Philadelphia from opening is approximately $35,000? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: That's correct.
Let's go to the budget book, Section 41, . This turf management, is this one firm or a variety of firms?
That information I can get for you. I don't have that here readily. I can make sure that I get it for you. It was just bid and just awarded.
Mr. Williams, I know how to read. What I'm asking you is, is that one firm or is it a series of firms?
Is that the name of each individual firm? One is called Moon, one's called Minority, one is called M&M and one is called Independence?
That's part of the firm. Again, I have to clarify the name. The bid just went out through Fairmount Park. 1331 It's in cooperation with Fairmount Park.
Can you get us through the Chair the individual names of the firms and what part of the $600,000 their function represents?
Now, I thought I heard earlier that there was a cut back in turf management, or did I just understand that there was a cut back in personnel in turf management?
As a result of that, does that reflect then the increase from 2005 to 2006 the line item for turf management?
Yes, sir. The money from the savings in staff due to attrition and DROP savings was directly related to paying for the turf management contract.
So we took the savings from laying people off and increased the contract on the outsource? 1332
Basically that was done through attrition. That didn't have anything to do with the layoffs.
You took the savings from not hiring people back and put them in increased turf management costs?
On , who is, other than a character in the movie Gladiator, who is Maximus (ph) and what do they do?
Maximus is the company that does the cost allocation plans for the City. We had them do one for Recreation based on Recreation's costs so that we can provide that to grant funders such as TANF funding to improve our costs for bringing services.
Why wouldn't we just do that ourselves? MS PLATT-COLES: It's a very, very intense process.
Well, working in the government is an intense process. 1333
Yes, sir. It's a highly specialized accounting process that we don't have the expertise in-house to do it. The City also has one done City wide. They don't do it in-house.
Do I understand that their offices are on the same floor as the Rec Department?
Now, while we were trying to figure out ways to save money and either laying off or benefiting from DROP or attrition from the numbers given earlier -- and if these are incorrect you'll, I'm sure, correct me -- there were 10 full-time program people, 20 full-time maintenance people, 13 -- is that part-time program -- and 77 seasonals?
What were the reductions on the administrative or executive 1334 side?
Administration, from '05 to '06, eight full-time positions and three seasonals. We don't have any part-time positions in the administration unit.
I understand. That would seem to indicate that both program and maintenance took a much -- I assume those entities are larger, but it seems like they took a much larger hit than the administration?
Well, they are larger, that is correct, sir. But of the 15 positions for maintenance, 13 are due to the 16 mowing and three are the trees maintenance 17 workers that were transferred to Fairmount 18 Park due to Fairmount Park's expertise with 19 trees. We transferred our trees unit over 20 there earlier this Fiscal Year.
Well, with these two departments co-locating and possibly having separate people doing some of the same jobs for each Department, tell me what kinds of consolidation have been put forward to save 1335 money rather than taking away from program delivery or maintenance?
Due to the consolidation of the administrative units, we will save the City over a million dollars over five years. Just for this year alone it's $175,000, and that's due to people leaving during the year where we didn't fill vacancies. We eliminated vacancies of the high management level positions in some cases and mid management positions in others.
Do you have a schedule or a chart or a program document that will lay all that out?
I do, but I'd like to get it to you through the process. I have one copy here. I don't have enough for everyone.
What I have, Councilman Nutter, is a listing of all of the positions --
I know you learned in elementary school that you should 1336 bring enough copies for the whole class.
I'm sure you will bring it to the Chair. Are there more consolidations to be done with regard to the administrative units?
With regard to the administrative unit? Well, we're always looking for ways to consolidate. I think we have a pretty good number of employees now to handle a lot of duties, including audits, including the hiring of almost 2,000 seasonals between the park and recreation. We have a lot of work, but we have a really, really good, strong staff.
Let me ask this question, and I have just one other. Does Recreation still have its own personnel person and does the park have their own personnel person?
No. We have one human resource person that handles both departments. 1337
Are there any overlapping or dual department positions where both departments have the same person doing --
There may be the same job title in both departments, in both budgets, but the work comes with it. So one person wouldn't be able to handle the work for both departments in some instances.
You're going to get a document to the Council President, and this is an area I have a great interest in, so I should tell you up front that as we work through the rest of the process this will probably be a call back item.
Commissioner, lastly, with regard to Camp William Penn, can you provide us a zip code analysis of the participants in the Camp William Penn program over the past three years? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yes, sir.
How many kids actually participate a year? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We had 615 1338 that participated last year. With the changes we can accommodate 900 this year. If you'd like, I can get Mike to come back to the microphone and talk about the enrollment that we have, along with some of the special rentals that are going to take place this year.
No. We won't do that this afternoon. But any information you have on that, I'd be glad to receive it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In reference to swimming pools, can you tell me about the relationship that we have with the School District, because I recollect there's a swimming pool down somewhere around Germantown and Hunting Park -- what's the name of that, Commissioner?