Committee Hearing, June 1, 2010

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 1, 2010 9:30 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, CHAIR COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO, JR. RESOLUTION 100272 - Resolution authorizing Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings for applicants seeking nomination to serve on the Police Advisory Commission, and further authorizing the Committee to provide a report to the Committee of the Whole... - - - 2

Good morning, everyone. My name is Donna Reed Miller and I'm Chair of the Public Safety Committee, and I want to acknowledge that this Committee is now in session, very brief session. And let the record reflect that in attendance are Committee members Councilman Frank Rizzo, Councilman Bill Greenlee and to my right, Councilman Curtis Jones. We're just going to take a brief pause until William finishes the sign-in sheet. Thank you. (Pause.)

Good morning again, everyone. The Committee on Public Safety is now in session. Would the Clerk please read the title of the resolution.

Resolution 100272, resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings for applicants seeking nomination to serve on the Police 3 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Advisory Commission, and further authorizing the Committee to provide a report to the Committee of the Whole setting forth its recommended list of nominations for submission to the Mayor.

Thank you. Welcome again, everyone. I'm delighted to be here today as we launch a new era for the Police Advisory Commission. I firmly believe that the Commission is a vital part of our city's justice system. The Police Advisory Commission was created in 1993 by then-Mayor Ed Rendell under the Executive Order No. 18 8-93 to bridge the gap between the community and the Police Department. I applaud the selection process because it allows for diversity. Diversity fosters understanding and tolerance. This is critical and good police work. With that, I want to thank those citizens who participated in this 4 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 process. As you know, Council's role in this case is to nominate individuals 4 for the Mayor's consideration, and we 5 have embarked on an open and transparent 6 selection process, very similar to the 7 process that we used in selecting 8 nominees for the Commission on Parks and 9 Recreation. 10 We've done our best to make it 11 easy for people to apply, including 12 posting the application on the City's 13 website and distributing printed 14 applications to every library in 15 Philadelphia. 16 And at today's public hearing, 17 every single applicant will have a chance 18 to be heard. We are delighted to welcome 19 you and look forward to hearing from each 20 of you. We will be calling you forward 21 in groups of three in the order that you came in, and if we skip over your name without calling you, please step forward and let us know immediately. Please limit your remarks to two to three 5 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 minutes to give us time to ask questions and to make sure that all applicants have a fair opportunity to speak. So with that, we're going to start with the first panel of three. Thank you.

Sheryl Haynes, Leon Werb and Rodney Dunn. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Good morning. Actually, please proceed with your testimony and state your name for the record, and actually we'll proceed in the manner in which you were called, so whoever was called first. I think that was Sheryl Haynes. Thank you. Don't forget to pull the microphone up to you. If you have testimony, the Sergeant-At-Arms will gladly distribute it to the Committee members. You just have to let us know. And pull the mike up so we can hear you. Thank you. 6 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Good morning. My name is Sheryl Haynes, and did you want to know the neighborhood I'm from?

I'm sorry?

What information, my name and --

You want to make any comments?

Yeah. I'm sorry. I've provided my testimonial. I've been a resident of Fairmount neighborhood going on six years now. I'm an active member in the community, having volunteered my time in the following ways: As a block captain for 2900 Cambridge Street; President of the Fairmount Civic Association; volunteer for the Fairmount Development Corporation; and I am an alumni -- a Glass Leadership Alumni of the Anti-Defamation League. In my testimonial I provided a little bit of what I did under each of 7 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 these positions, these volunteer positions.

You don't have to unless you want to. I mean, we can read it, and we'll certainly submit it for the record.

Okay. Great.

Did we get an extra one for the stenographer?

I provided about copies. But the references, I'm 13 sorry, I didn't know whether I should 14 have provided copies or not. I just 15 brought the two that I -- 16

We'll 17 make the copies. Don't worry about that. 18 All right. Thank you. We're 19 going to have questions after all three 20 have presented. So whoever is second.

Thank you. My name is Leon Werb, and I want to thank City Council for allowing me to present my credentials today in consideration for a 8 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 seating on the Police Advisory Commission. At the risk of being redundant, I defer to both my resumes and my letters of recommendation that I presented in my original packet. A little bit about myself. I was born at 1925 North 7th Street. I was raised at 2000 South 8th Street. I am in the Northeast section of Philadelphia now. I'm retired, and my professional title was the Manager of Labor Relations for the third largest commuter railroad in the country. Today I'm an arbitrator with the National Mediation Board, with the American Bar Association and the Better Business Bureau. I volunteer with the District Attorney's Office in their Youth Aid Panel and various other municipal organs. My mission is to give back to the City, which I have derived and in which I have prospered. And I want to thank you for this time and in your 9 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 consideration of me for the youth -- for the Police Advisory Commission.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Dunn.

Good morning. My name is Rodney Dunn. I am a resident of West Philadelphia area. I am a 29-year veteran in the field of substance abuse, working with adults as well as conduct disordered adolescents. The parallel between substance abuse -- my work in substance abuse and this panel today, the Police Advisory Commission, is that the work, particularly working with adolescents, is a work that every day when the staff comes to work, they know that it's going to bring some challenging features to that day, just not knowing exactly what they're going to be. And the unpredictability of working with adolescents is very similar to what the police encounter on a daily basis, knowing that the day is going to bring 10 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 some emotionally charged, unpredictable situations, but just not knowing the exact nature of those circumstances. And I guess what is more important about that is the ability of those individuals, the staff in a treatment program and the police in their work, in remaining rational in their approach to these situations. And years of doing this work I think has sensitized me to the need for training, to help people, to coach people who are in these volatile situations constantly on a daily basis. They are being bombarded with this negative energy, to be able to not personalize what it is that they're experiencing and to be able to be sensitive to those that they serve. So with that, I will yield and just say that I think that that is what interests me. Can I say one more thing? I'm sorry.

Sure. 11 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Additionally, and my resume speaks to this, I had the experience of running the Curfew Center in Nicetown during its tenure, which it actually closed in August of '08 due to budget cuts. And that was a very enlightening experience in which neighborhood people, myself as well, came in direct contact with police officers on a daily basis in that work, and it was very eye-opening in that it presented an opportunity to break down a lot of the barriers and stereotypes that existed on both sides of the fence. And I think that some of what I know that I experienced there is very relevant to what police and communities, the tensions that exist on a daily basis. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank all of you for your comments. For the record, I know you 12 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 wrote it in your application, but could each one tell me why you want to be on the Police Advisory Commission.

I guess I'll go first. Very simply put, I want -- as I just said before, I want to give back to the community. I want to add a bit of credibility to the community, to the Police Advisory Commission and act as a liaison, if you will, between the people and the police so that there is a belief, there is a credibility that we are not -- that their complaints, that their concerns are not falling on deaf ears, but that the City itself is working to allay any misconceptions or concerns. And, again to reiterate, I owe an awful lot within myself to the City of Philadelphia, and this is one of my ways of repaying the municipality back.

Thank you. Mr. Dunn.

Yes. I am very, 13 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 very interested in, I guess, eliminating the divide between community residents and police, you know, of bringing those two elements closer together, and I just see that as very, very crucial to the development of the quality of life within our communities. I realize that police have a very, very hard job, and I also realize that communities have certain perceptions about police and what they do. So the ability for the two to work together, I just think is just a winning combination for the City of Philadelphia.

Ms. Haynes.

It is about communication and education to the public and to the community regarding not just police activity but understanding what their job is, how they do it, why they do it. I've been successful in bridging some of those misunderstandings or gaps being on the Police District Advisory 14 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Committee and involving my small spot of the neighborhood in eyes and ears, watch programs and things like that. I felt this was just an extension of that involvement on a bigger level, with an even broader understanding to educate the community on.

Councilman Jones, and then we'll have Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and let me first thank you for pushing this issue forward and reinvigorating the Police Advisory Commission through this application process. I think it will go a long way of doing what Mr. Dunn talked about, improving the quality of life at the neighborhood level. So I thank you for that. I noticed in your application, Mr. Dunn, that you had some experience with community courts up in New York.

Yes. 15 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

And I'm also encouraged by the fact that you ran a curfew center, and I like the fact that you dealt with drug treatment. And I say those three things because a lot of times it is that demographic, that triangle of community, drug abuse, young people that we really need to have a kind of understanding of in order to deal with a lot of the interactions that happen. And I wanted to specifically ask you about the community courts experience.

Yes. Well, in New York, going back to really in the '80s, about '89, 1990, a program that I worked for, we forged a collaboration with -- at that time, it was the Bronx District Attorney's Office -- for an alternative to incarceration for adolescents that allowed them to come into a treatment environment and get services that really dealt with the real underlying issues as to why they were doing all the things that they were doing. 16 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 In that capacity and then out of that, it expanded to Brooklyn and Queens as well. And what it allowed for really was for young people to get the services that they need as opposed to just being locked up. They were kind of forced to move into a therapeutic situation where they had to examine what it is that's going on with you, why are you behaving the way that you're behaving and what's underlying these manifestations with you. So it was a very, very positive thing. I think it's a long history of it. It goes all the way back to Janet Reno, who started the first one down in Florida way back, in the early '80s, and it's a service that I think is just very important and we could do -- there are more things that we could do on that kind of community level as opposed to just locking somebody up, you know. There are some people that need to be locked up, but there's a lot of people that they're 17 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 just a ball of just emotions that they themselves don't understand and they're running around and reacting and doing things that sometimes when you make them stop and examine and look at what's happening, you get positive results.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo.

I'd like to address this to all three of you. The decisions that the Police Advisory Commission make can be very hurtful to the Philadelphia Police Department and also, in the same breath, be very complimentary to the Philadelphia Police Department. Have you ever had a situation where you would have been considered having negative contact or positive contact with a police officer? Have you ever had anything that you considered 18 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 negative that would turn you against a police officer?

I honestly have only had positive experiences with the police force in my neighborhood and through minor situations that I have witnessed. I mean, every time I've seen them come in my neighborhood to handle a situation, it has always been -- it appeared to be appropriate. It all appeared to be in protocol. And I kind of live in a gray area where it's still kind of -- you still have the gunshot situations, you still have burglaries, you still have these kind of things. So I've only had positive. In working in the PDAC group, I've also had the positive experience of getting to know them and understanding them. So I can't give any negative experience.

Since you commented, then you feel as though you can be very objective in making a recommendation? 19 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

I feel I can. I mean, I read -- you read in the paper about situations that happen and like the example of the police officer that just -- that was in the news recently about shooting somebody and then getting in trouble for it. I mean, mistakes happen, situations happen. You have to address them just like in any other -- like in a court situation, you have to be objective about that, and I feel I could be.

Thank you for your comment. Anybody else?

Yes. I mean, I have had experience of -- I mean, just growing up here in the City of Philadelphia of experiencing policemen who were good, committed people who -- officer who walked the beat on Lansdowne Avenue in my area, Moser, you know what I mean, who knew my parents and was a good person. And then there were some others who 20 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 operated out of some, you know, kind of stereotypic kind of thinking that was kind of in their head about some of the people that they dealt with, you know, that everybody was up to no good and treated people unfairly. So, I mean, I have experienced both. And I think that my recent experiences, years later, of the Curfew Center of working nightly with police officers really brought home to me that these are people, these are human beings that are struggling in most cases, 99 percent of the time, to do what's right. And, yeah, like in anything, in any profession, you're going to have some loose canons or somebody who does something that they shouldn't do. But, no, I think that the police serve a good purpose. They do good work, and part of what I have tried -- am committed to doing is to try to, like I said, close that divide between what police do and what the perception that a lot of 21 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 citizens have and then, on the other side of the fence, some of the perceptions that police have about the citizenry as well.

For myself, I have not had any negative interaction with the Police Department itself, but in my capacity as the Manager of Labor Relations for my agency and as the Chief Disciplinary Officer for that agency, I was in charge of the New Jersey Transit Police Department in the labor relations sense and the disciplinary officer, and it was my objective analysis when the officers were accused of unnecessary force or of other infractions, it was up to me to use my unique training to either forego any disciplinary actions or to -- if in the case that it was warranted, if our burden of proof was met, what degree of disciplinary action should be taken.

Very good.

Thank you.

All 22 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 right. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. We're looking for folks that can be objective and fair with an open mind on both sides. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. Our next panel is Stephen Thompson, Mujeeb and Robert Cavanaugh. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Good morning. Thank you for coming in, and we can proceed with your testimony. Don't forget to pull the mike close enough so that we can hear you, and we can start in the order in which I called your name. Stephen Thompson, please go first. Thank you.

Good day. I am going to be reading it. My name is Stephen W. Thompson. A tension exists, and we all know it, so allow me to frame my testimony around it. This sizable 23 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 tension concerns whether those on the Police Advisory Commission will be fair to the cops and fair to the complainants both, and you've already mentioned that. The life and death challenges of the officer on patrol, on one hand, versus the rights of the everyday Philadelphian whose voice needs to be heard, on the other hand. I believe that Philadelphia will judge the Commission by how well it balances poles of that tension when it reports, constantly remembering that people's lives will be affected by those reports. When the Police Department is guided by objective considerations of facts enriched by police and citizen perspectives, all are well served. My professional and community involvement give me powerful skills in objective consideration of facts. I want Philadelphia's Police Department to serve and be respected by its populus as much as possible, so, therefore, I applied to 24 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 serve on the Commission. In my professional life, I work for a major financial institution doing, quote, "information security." In short, I hunt for hackers. Automated systems forward clues to me and I must select from those clues a smaller number to forward to investigators. Pursue clues too aggressively and you waste people's time and inconvenience the innocent. Be too lax, on the other hand, and hacking doesn't get handled as it must. The approach I use then is to consider the story that the clues provide and act on them objectively. I've also learned about thoughtful objectivity in my community involvement. Since 1994, I've participated in my local town watch association. There we discuss crime, dogs barking, small business issues and neighbor relation problems. Once when complaints arose about questionable practices of a so-called nuisance 25 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 restaurant, I attended a gathering sponsored by multiple town watch groups on the topic. Immediately afterwards, I walked to the restaurant and spoke with the employees there. Next I visited several similar area restaurants to learn whether the one restaurant differed from the others. I was much more informed at the later town watch meeting as a result of my consideration of multiple sides. A separate issue was a concern between neighbors, one neighbor making a complaint that made a lot of sense. I stated, though, that we needed to have -- to be sure to have a direct conversation with the other neighbor before we could act. I followed up my statement by visiting with that other neighbor personally. We talked, and I learned some important facts which will allow our group to take helpful, supportive action for all concerned. Tensions can be healthy if we approach them with an open mind and an 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 optimistic heart, and I'd like to be a part of this important work.

Thank you. Mr. Mujeeb. Please pronounce your name. I may be pronouncing it wrong.

My name is Mujeeb Chaudhary. Good morning to Honorable Chairperson, the Councilmember, especially Frank Rizzo. I am giving this testimony to this Councilmembers. As you know, my name is Mujeeb Chaudhary and I have been a pharmacist living in Philadelphia for the last 37 years. I have applied to be a member of the Police Advisory Commission for various reasons. Since moving to Philadelphia, I have been serving our neighborhood as an independent community pharmacist in the North Philadelphia area, in Hunting Park area specifically. I have a pharmacy there. My profession has allowed me the 27 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 opportunity to have an in-depth understanding of crimes in our neighborhood. I know what private citizens experience in their daily lives, and as a private business owner, I understand the needs of the community businesses. Crimes on our streets are increasing daily, and our police force has a great task ahead of them. With my diverse perspective, I believe I can be an important contributor in the Police Advisory Commission. In addition to this, I have been a long life member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, a spiritual organization established in Philadelphia in 1920. I have been serving this organization, Philadelphia Chapter, as President for the last ten years, which has local residents from all backgrounds, include whites, African Americans, Pakistanis, Haitians, African, Indian and Bangladesh. Our community has adopted two homeless shelters, feeding them on a 28 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 weekly basis for the last four years. Recently we have also become a partner in Adopt a Highway program with the City of Philadelphia and currently are responsible for keeping our streets clean from Route 1 from 9th to Adams Avenue. I personally oversee these projects and manage them with members of our community. We have over 125,000 Muslims currently living in Philadelphia, and I feel that I can be an asset in understanding the mindset of the minority Muslims for the Commission. Through my experience, I understand crime on our streets. I understand the safety of our citizens. We also have obligation to serve our communities. I have served at a local level and now I have a lot of time which I can spare for this purpose, and I'll have the honor to be part of this Commission. If you give me the opportunity, I would like to help the PAC mission to make a bridge between the 29 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Muslim community and the Police Department of Philadelphia. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Mr. Cavanaugh.

Madam Chairperson, distinguished members of the City Council, thank you for inviting us here this morning. My name is Robert Cavanaugh. I live in the Fairmount section of Philadelphia. I own my home there now years. S. 19 Department of Health and Human Services. 20 I had held that position in another large 21 city before, and we are going to 22 establish and bring on new agents here in 23 Philadelphia that would cover other 24 states as well. I held that position 25 until the time that I retired. 30 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 My reason for coming here this morning is both professional and personal. From a personal standpoint, I am a child of a police family. My grandfather served Chicago police 1900. My father spent 31 years on the job there, rising to the rank of the District Commander. My brother spent 28 years there and was a rather noted detective during his career. At the time that I applied to be a police officer there, my father was against the idea of my brother and I going on. Like all immigrants and sons of immigrants, they wanted something better for their children, yet my brother and I had our model in our father and we've followed through on that. My brother being a veteran, he was picked up for the first class that he was eligible for, and at that same month, I received orders as a Private First Class to report to active duty in the United States Marine Corps. 31 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 The lessons I learned from my father over the years was more lessons of integrity, honesty in dealing with people on the street particularly. My dad was a patrol officer all of his career. He was not a detective. He was not a special assignment individual. And he really knew people well, and he was actually asked to serve in certain districts because of his ability to handle people in all types of situations. Those lessons stayed with me for years. I thought often of my father as I grew in my own profession, my own career. What would he do facing certain decision-making things, making decisions, especially important ones that would affect other people and yourself. Each time I did that, I generally came out with the right answer in that decision-making process. From a professional standpoint, I am most pleased to tell you that my career has been one of varied interest, 32 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 and I feel myself to be a very fortunate individual having worked on all levels, both municipal to begin with as a police patrolman in the City of San Diego, followed by my federal service in the FBI for several years. I worked on the state level as well and was at one time the Chief Investigator for the District Attorney's Office. We call them State's Attorney in Cook County, Chicago, Illinois. My first instance of -- first experience, I should say, in leadership was in the Marine Corps. I was very fortunate to win a commission and be assigned to the military police, where I was trained in the tactics of combat military police, as well as the town patrol or what we call the law enforcement aspects of base policing. Later in my career, as you can read, I also had the opportunity to be one of the first planning officers to set up a new state Bureau of Investigation in 33 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 the State of Illinois. I was invited by the Office of the Public Safety, the Director and the Assistant Director, and in collaboration with several other people following law 469 -- I'll never forget it -- from the State Legislature which established the Bureau. We worked on everything from job descriptions. There were no special agents in the state breakdown of jobs, right through to the organization, organizational chart and its functions, the emphasis on organized crime at that time. I wrote the first ten-week program for the Illinois Bureau of Investigation. Their new agents coming on in the first year, we trained in three different courses approximately 100 people.

I later had experience in international policing both -- while during my career, three years in Venezuela, for standardization of police services throughout that country. I was part of a four-man team. Later I was 34 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 able to bring that -- following my retirement from federal service, I was invited by the Justice Department, International Criminal Investigations and Training Assistance program. I served in seven different countries. I feel that I have a great understanding of the Latin way of thinking and policing. What had been military organizations we, by law, established through the assembly there in those countries, changed those military units into civilian police units. My purpose in coming here is to bring with me that experience and hope that I can do that. I understand -- I feel I deeply understand -- the stresses that are placed on the average police officer and what he has to do to bring peace here to the City. I also understand as a private citizen what the average man or woman wants in their police force, and I think that I could contribute that immensely if selected for a position within the Police Advisory 35 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Commission. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. I'm actually going to ask everyone, why do you want to be on this. Sometimes you've answered part of it in your own comments, but why do you want to be on the Police Advisory Commission? And then next we'll have Councilman Rizzo. Before we go any further, though, I'd like the record to reflect that we also have in attendance another Committee member, Councilman Jim Kenney. Thank you.

So in my testimony, I already mentioned that I was interested in helping kind of bridge the tension between the police perspective and the citizen perspective, and as we've talked here today, I realize that some of that is because of good experiences and bad experiences I've had with police in 36 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Philadelphia since I've been here. The bad experiences haven't been horrible. They've mainly been an occasion where I saw several officers pinning a man's head to the front of their car, and I didn't know what led up to that, so I couldn't really judge it, but it was certainly one of those situations that would make citizens want to know more. The good experiences, I call the police when I hear noises and when there's break-ins down the street, and I've worked with cops and ex-cops and other officers. So good and bad.

I was running the pharmacy for a long time, so I went through the both part of the police and the citizens. People think that the police came from out of space. They are part of us. They were raised in the City and they become the police officer. They're here to protect us in all incidences. Just sometime people think that they are from somewhere else. 37 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Working in my community, I taught them that they are a part of us, they're enforcing the law, the law which we made for them to follow as a citizen. So I personally don't have any bad experience with the police which I can mention. They're always very gentle whenever they came to my pharmacy in that area any troubles they have. They handled it very lovely way. I never seen anybody pinned down or anybody pushed away. Just I watch on the TV sometime and the newspaper there's a possibility, but sometime the heart go criminal, the police have to be having a little bit harder hand on them. On average, I give all the police officers that they're doing their job and duty modestly. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Cavanaugh.

Personally I have not had any run-in with the police. 38 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 I live in the Ninth District. I know the City by virtue of having participated in the boxing program, so I know every recreation facility and so forth. I traveled quite frequently as a judge there. I have seen arrests being made in my own neighborhood where people were handcuffed and taken away, and rightfully so, based on either a warrant and a car serving a warrant or just actual police work, misdemeanor having been committed in front of the officers. My experience has been one of very positive. If I call them, they come. We had an elderly lady, for instance, that slipped and fell in front of my property there, a dear friend, as a matter of fact. A police car happened to be going by and they stopped just to find out if she was all right. All of the instances -- I was stopped for a traffic ticket, and the -- I was behind the bus and ran the light. 39 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 When the articulated vehicle pulled away, I couldn't see the light. The officer was right behind me, and when he pulled me over, he asked me if I had seen him, and I said I certainly did, but I didn't see the light. And he was very polite and so forth and said -- told me to be careful and go on. I can go on. I have many instances of that. Maybe it's my age, the way I look, whatever, but I've been treated very kindly, and I watch them -- I watched arrests happen in front of Macy's last week while there were 50 tourists standing there who were looking in the other direction, and it was made in a very humane way, taken into custody. The person was obviously a shoplifter. I don't -- well, I've seen things in the news. When I was a young policeman, I had people around me who did not use good judgment and a little bit too much force. I've seen all that on the street before, but in Philadelphia 40 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 I've not experienced that. Thank you.

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo.

You should have just given him your resume and he would have given you an escort.

I'm sorry, sir?

I say you should have just given that officer your resume and he would have given you an escort. Again, the same question. I think that since I asked it to the first panel, you all kind of got it in there about being objective, whether you're too pro police or you had a negative contact. I think from what I heard from all three of you, that you answered and worked into your statement that even though you have a significant law enforcement background and community and other areas, that you could be objective in making decisions 41 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 and recommendations that could affect the reputation of the Philadelphia Police Department and definitely affect the reputation and the careers of men and women that serve. So unless I didn't hear correctly, that all three can be objective in making these recommendations. Is that correct?

That's correct for me.

It's correct for me, too. I just want to say why I'm here today. I service the community for that many years. Now I thought I owe it to the community to offer my services for only to help the community from here onward, because I have done my years of my pharmacy service, so this is my -- I have done my job. It is up to you to take me, because then I'd be happy that I have done my job as a citizen. Thank you.

Well, the Chair of the Committee will, I'm sure, 42 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 explain to you that it isn't our decision today to appoint you to the Commission. I'll let the Chair explain if you're not aware, but I think you are. But, again, thank you for considering serving on the Police Advisory Commission. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Any other questions for these witnesses from Committee members? (No response.)

Thank you.

Mr. Rizzo is --

Today -- I'm sorry.

I beg your pardon.

Go on.

Yes. I wanted to emphasize the fact that of your objectivity toward both sides of the question, in my experience in foreign countries, I set up two of the internal 43 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 affairs units for national police. So I know what goes into that type of investigation and what should go into that type of investigation, and I feel that's most essential for the Police Department to have that type of thing. And I would understand that the Commission has the right to read those things when necessary and bring them in, and I think that's an outstanding thing that the police are cooperating in that direction. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Council, for giving us this opportunity.

Thank you all for coming in. Next we'll have Cassandra Hines, Louis Troup and Elizabeth Mell. As you're coming up, don't forget to state your name for the record 44 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 and pull the mike close enough so that we can hear you. Thank you. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Cassandra Hines. Good morning.

Good morning. First of all, I would like to say I'm very excited to be here today. I thank you for the opportunity of being here. My name again is Cassandra Hines, and the reason that I would like to be selected as a member of the Police Advisory Commission is that I've worked in the criminal justice system for years, 16 17 of which were in the field as a street 18 probation officer. I have seen the good, 19 the bad and the ugly sides of lady 20 justice. I have been successful in 21 avoiding the pitfalls of the criminal 22 lifestyles of those I've sought to 23 rehabilitate due to my innate sense of integrity and determined mind for fairness. 45 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 If selected, I strongly believe that my knack for discerning the truth will be an asset to the Commission, as well as my ability to decipher and navigate the system well. Everyone has a story to tell. It is the Police Advisory Commission's position to break down the narrative, determine whose story is most truthful and to offer mediation so that all parties are held responsible for his or her own actions. An agenda must be set in place to break down the barriers. The police and the community must learn to work together for the common good of the City to fulfill Philadelphia's destiny of truly being the City of Brotherly Love and Sisterly Affection. I believe that I have the ability, the motivation, the drive and the enthusiasm to assist in achieving the goals of the Philadelphia Police Advisory Commission. Thank you for your time and 46 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 consideration. I would also just like to say that I am a mentor in the City. I am currently an intake interviewer. I believe you do have my resume, as well as three recommendation letters, and I'm very excited for this opportunity. Thank you.

Louis Troup.

Yes. Good morning. My name is Louis Troup and I just want to say that it's really an honor to be a part of this process. As a dedicated public servant for over 30 years, I wish to seize this opportunity to further my commitment to my community in an effort to maximize the quality of life in this great city. Becoming a member of the Police Advisory Commission will allow me to utilize my diverse law enforcement experiences in identifying issues that serve to protect and safeguard the community and the Philadelphia Police Department. 47 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 The Philadelphia Police Department, like many other large and small law enforcement organizations across the country, is under intense scrutiny regarding the actions of its officers. Far too often officers have exceeded the boundaries of their duties when engaging and confronting the public. Consequently, the citizens are victimized and their lives are ruined because of the insensitive actions of police officers. The responsibilities of being a police officer are tremendous. At the same time, police officers have a tremendous authority over the communities they serve. While we need our officers to be tactically proficient when executing their duties, they also need to remain sensitive to the human element. The dilemma of balancing the two is a true test for today's law enforcement professional. Let's face it, police misconduct, at times it is a universal 48 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 problem, and the evidence shows that police departments are unable to thoroughly police themselves. As a retired law enforcement professional, I have to agree with that premise. Therefore, the role of the Police Advisory Commission serves as a viable tool in addressing police abuse. However, the Commission must have the independence and the authority to proactively investigate and follow through on its recommendations for the Police Department's accountability. Otherwise, the Commission becomes ineffective and powerless. My experiences have shown that the nature of police work precludes it from properly policing itself. Outside intervention is paramount for setting standards of police conduct. The degree of the Commission's oversight responsibilities lie with the Mayor and City Council. Our elected City officials' influence is critical for 49 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 empowering and supporting the Commission as it discharges its duties. Finally, I believe my extensive background in policing, training and my unwavering passion for community rights solidifies my candidacy for a position on the Commission. I bring a host of experiences and professional insights that could be used to serve impartially in this worthy process. The concept of "protect and serve" must always remain foremost in our police institutions. However, it will require the due diligence of the Philadelphia Police Advisory Commission to ensure that this legacy is carried out through the actions of its police officers. My name is Louis Troup, Jr. again. I am a retired federal agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration, and I am a resident of South Philadelphia for going on eight years now.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. 50 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 There's so many papers up here, I'm trying to keep track of the names. But, Ms. Mell, will you please proceed with your testimony.

Thank you. Good morning. My name is Elizabeth Mell. I'm here today to express my interest in serving on the Police Advisory Commission. I am pursuing this opportunity because I am a proud resident of Philadelphia. I have lived in Philadelphia since 1990 and currently reside in Washington Square West where I own a home. I work as a non-lawyer on staff at a large law firm headquartered in Center City. Over my time in Philadelphia, I have volunteered at several community service agencies and I currently volunteer at MANNA, which is the Metropolitan Area Neighborhood Nutrition Alliance. I love the City of Philadelphia and everything it has to offer. I support City government and 51 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 public safety and want to do all I can to contribute to the community at large. I believe that Philadelphia is one of America's most livable cities. A culture of safety is one of the most important factors in a thriving city. A responsible police force is the key to sustaining residential growth as well as the development and retention of businesses. Philadelphia's reputation as a safe destination is also crucial to promoting tourism. I understand that police misconduct, real or perceived, will negatively affect an atmosphere of security and erode community trust. I want to do my part to help the City's police force in carrying out its duties, improving its relationship with the community it serves and improving its relationship among its ranks. This means supporting an independent commission that addresses problems and complaints against officers in a transparent way and then 52 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 suggesting remedies. This also means promoting the good works of individuals on the police force. Part of the mission of the Commission is to help enhance the communication and rapport between the community and the Police Department. I believe that the Commission, as a non-biased body, can assure the public that their City government has a system in place that provides a forum where complaints can be heard and examined by neutral parties. I also believe that the role of this same body is to support officers who put their lives on the line each day. As a member of the Commission, I would like to help educate the public about the positive contributions that officers make on a daily basis. I appreciate the opportunity to appear this morning. I thank you for listening to my testimony and considering my application. Thank you very much. 53 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Thank you. Thank you very much. My question to everybody, I think all of you addressed why you want to be on the Police Advisory Commission. Councilman Rizzo had to leave for a few minutes and the question that he's been asking, has anyone here had a negative encounter with the police, anyone on the panel.

Being in law enforcement -- as I stated, I am currently an intake interviewer. I work at the Youth Study Center. My position is -- we're similar to judges in that we make decisions. We are the ones who decide whether a child is going to be released or held for custody once they're arrested. And being also previously on the streets, yes, I have seen both sides, and that's why I feel that I can be objective when I go to court. I speak from facts, being objective, and so that the judge can make the appropriate 54 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 decision on what I've experienced. We currently are involved with the police just about every day. I hear the testimonies of the juveniles and the parents who are coming in to court. I hear the testimonies. We make decisions based on that. A lot of times the parents come in, the children come in and tell stories, and I believe them of the things that can happen on the street. I believe that the police officers can get very frustrated and sometimes go overboard, but, again, that happens in every situation. Most people always see a lot of the things that are on TV, but I have seen them directly. And I do believe that I can be objective. And I do have friends as police officers as well.

Okay. I mean, you can just say yes.

Sorry. Yes.

The question is yes. 55 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Thank you. The answer.

I'm sorry. The answer to your question is yes.

Okay. Thank you. And Ms. Mell.

I'm sorry. And the question was can we be objective or have we had a negative experience?

Negative experience.

I have not had a negative experience with police.

And I think your answer, Mr. Troup --

Troup.

It's just spelled so different.

I know. What can I say? You got to talk to my dad.

Yeah, I know. It's all in the family. But anyway, your answer is, 56 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 yes, you can be objective?

Yes.

And not, yes, you've had a negative encounter?

No. Yes, I had a negative encounter with the police in my lifetime, and, yes, I can be impartial and objective.

Okay. Great. All right. Thank you. And the next panel -- are there any questions from anybody on the Committee? (No response.)

I'm sorry I actually overlooked the other panel, but I need to call -- I called you guys out of turn. It's because I don't have the actual list in front of me. So the next panel is Jim Crumlish, Aaron Kase and Toni McIlwaine. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

And if 57 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 you had not signed in, William here, you can sign in, if you figure out in order which you came. William is going around with the sign-in sheet. You can proceed with your testimony just in the order in which I called your name. Jim Crumlish and then Mr. Kase and then Toni McIlwaine. Thank you.

Good morning, Madam Chair, Mr. Councilman Kenney. I've made an application to be considered for the position of the Police Advisory Commission. I will not repeat my resume, but in summary, as many of the Councilpeople know, I served in public office for a number of years, but probably one of the more informative periods of my public service was as assigned to the Philadelphia Police Department in the City Solicitor's Office and, more particularly, I was assigned to Chief Inspector George Fencil, and as you can tell by my gray hair and the guess we 58 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 can make on my resume, my career in public service for the City of Philadelphia spanned many different mayors, starting with Mayor Frank Rizzo, the late Frank Rizzo. I also served Bill 7 Green and Wilson Goode, and they were all remarkably different in their belief of the use of the police force and just their philosophy of government as well. Throughout that time, however, I served with George Fencil. And as a young lawyer, I started out with a lot of ideas and impressions and beliefs, and some of them were founded in my experience growing up in Philadelphia. I am a City guy, but I would also like to make a small confession. I am, by no means, an angel, nor have I ever been. So to sort of jump to Councilman Rizzo's question, yes, I have had some interesting encounters with the Police Department, and they were well deserved, to tell you the truth. But having said that, Inspector 59 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Fencil did teach me many things, but he taught me the process of critical thinking and being useful. And so when there were situations that required police response, ranging from Whitman Park, as some of us remember, to MOVE, to not feet from here I was standing as 9 two City Councilpeople, who were both 10 friends of mine, got into a fistfight. 11 So having grown through those experiences 12 and watched how those people who may have 13 been perceived as enemies one day became 14 good friends over time. 15 It is important that the separation process happens as you think and react, and, most importantly, you have to, as I said, use critical thinking to understand that there are some circumstances which are just the result of foolishness or misjudgment, and some of them are truly evil that require some kind of response. Now, that quality of evil can be a characteristic of a bureaucracy. It 60 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 can be a bunch of people sitting around with ties and suits, or it can be somebody with a weapon and the power to use it. And I think you need a critical thinking process and experience, having stood next to people with the power of life and death, with the power to ruin careers and understand the consequences of action. Inspector Fencil insisted for me to be of use to him and to the public that I was serving, along with him and the men and women, was I learn to effectively communicate to the members of the rank and file in the Police Department to transmit his directions and to evaluate necessary information. He insisted I learn the safety and proficiency in weapons. He insisted that I understand the use of physical force, along with deadly force. And having gone through all that, at the end of the day, he still insisted that I was an attorney, that I needed to render advice and 61 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 counsel and understand what were the limits of power and authority. So all of those things I hope to bring to the Commission. I do think it is important that there is someone who has stood shift work and watched the use of force, both deadly and non-lethal force, and understand that there are those people that are empowered to use it that often are misunderstood or unfairly attacked, and I would say that I would lend a strong force to balance. And I wouldn't call myself being judicial in nature, but rather judicious.

So, therefore, I think I would lend some balance and insight that may be of aid to the Commission. I do appreciate the time of the Council in evaluating my application, and I would turn the microphone over to one of the next members of the application pool.

Thank you. 62 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 I guess the next is Jim Crumlish, which -- I'm sorry; Kase.

Good morning. My name is Aaron Kase. In my day job, I'm a reporter for Philadelphia Weekly. I see the role as the Police Advisory Commission as one of communication between the Police Department and the public, and that goes two ways. I think it works as a conduit for the police to know what the public is thinking, public sentiment and public opinion, but also it's a way for the public to be reassured that the police do have citizen oversight. In my job as a reporter, I think I'm in a position to help the Commission in both aspects. I speak to people every day about what they're thinking about the police. I hear both very positive things and very negative things, and these are things that the Commission needs to consider and the police need to know about. I also have 63 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 the opportunity to illuminate the public on what the role of the Police Advisory Commission is. One of the reasons I signed up to join it, to apply for this position, is because I don't think most of the public even knows there is a Police Advisory Commission. It's not something that's very well advertised, and I appreciate the Chair's movement to increase the transparency and open up the application process this cycle. But I think a stronger police force is one with more transparency and where the public is more aware of what's going on. That's where I see my role as one that can be uniquely valuable to the Commission. Thank you.

Thank you. Toni McIlwaine. MS. McILWAINE: Good morning. My name is Toni McIlwaine. And just to 64 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 tell you a little bit about myself, I came from North Philadelphia, raised there. I came from poverty, drugs, prostitution, all sorts of things growing up, and in my family life, I always seen violence and police and things of that nature. And coming from a lot of homelessness and destruction, I was blessed to have a ministry now, a street ministry, so I'm always in the street and in Center City and other neighborhoods speaking to young people. One of my places is to the Gallery at Market East. I always go there because my son, he goes to CHAD at, I think it's, 7th and Spruce. He goes to a charter school there. And a lot of kids meet there at the Gallery, and they always getting a little feisty there and they always want to fuss there. So I find myself engaging there with the police officers to try to break up things or try to interact there so I can stand in the gap, because most of our young people are really, really angry. Because 65 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 I came from a place of so much abuse, and we get so angry at times and we don't know how to put that anger in certain perspective. So when I heard when I came to City Council about the Police Advisory Commission, I'm also a woman of God, and it just leaped in my spirit to apply for that position. But just to say I'm always out there on the streets. I see a lot of things going on, and I'm not afraid to interact. When I see violence, I always take them to the side and maybe pray with them. If I see a police officer, I always give them a good hug and "I love you," because what's going on with our police officers, I don't think -- in some cases they don't get fair treatment, because we see so much -- so many things about our police officers on TV. Most of it is negative and things of that nature, but I have seen some pros and cons from being brought up in poverty, and my heart 66 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 is in truth. So if you stand and I think if I was to be a part of that Commission, I could easily stand, you know, as a bridge in the gap between good and bad, because all police officers are not bad and all police officers are not good, but with the right person standing in the gap to try to bring unity, I think that will be a blessing. And I also have a 26-year-old son who got in a thing with police officers because he had a backpack or a hoodie or something. I don't think that's fair, but I'm also partial. I wouldn't judge, you know, without hearing the full story. So I think it would be good for me, because I'm already engaged. And I was blessed to meet Chief Ramsey, and I gave him a big hug when he came in. And he was blessed to take that office. And I went to a meeting he had when they were so rowdy there because they didn't understand, when he came on the scene, 67 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 they was just bitter. They was bitter. And so because I was blessed to be able to calm the crowd, he was able to speak. And so I'm really blessed to have Chief Ramsey. I mean, and the police officers, they just doing their job. And so that's why I want to be a part of the Police Advisory Commission.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Are there any questions of these witnesses? (No response.)

Thank you. Rachel Branson, Lorraine Troy and Angelina Zamichieli. (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Good morning. Thank you for coming in today. You can state your name for the record, pull the mike close so that we can hear you and you can proceed with your 68 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 testimony in the order in which I called your name. It's easier that way. Rachel Branson is first, Lorraine Troy and Angelina.

Good morning. My name is Rachel Branson. I'm not a native Philadelphian, but I purchased a home in Center City three years ago. Since that time, I purchased a second property that I rent in South Philadelphia. I am an attorney. I practice in Center City at Schnader Harrison Segal and Lewis where I'm an associate in the Corporate and Intellectual Property Departments. As I mentioned in my application, when I first heard about the Police Advisory Commission on the radio, I was glad to learn that there was a body in Philadelphia that works to investigate citizen complaints of police misconduct. I wanted to learn more about the Commission, so I did some research and learned that the Commission not only 69 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 serves an oversight function, but that it also seeks to educate the public on its activities through community outreach programs and reports, improve Police Department procedures and assist in making the Police Department more effective and foster better relations by collaborating with City officials, Police Department personnel and the community. I was excited to learn that the Commission consists of a diverse group of citizens who represent various organizations and interests from around the City and that there is an opportunity for me to contribute to the Commission's efforts. I applied to the Commission because I want to work to restore the trust between the Police Department and the community in which I live and work. I want to help implement policies and procedures that will help police personnel carry out their duties in a culture and environment where the police 70 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 and community feel respected. In addition to investigating police misconduct and approving the efficiency of the Police Department, educating the public is equally important to me. It is important that the public is aware that the Commission exists. It is also important that the public knows that the Commission and the Police Department are making positive strides to restore respect and trust between these groups. Although I am a transplant, I am a young professional that is actively involved in the community where I work and live. I am a member of the Philadelphia Bar Association. I'm a landlord, church member and volunteer for various non-profits and service organizations. My connections and service to the City are extensive and allow me to interact with a cross section 24 of citizens. My academic credentials demonstrate that I'm a thinker. My 71 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 community involvement establishes that I'm a doer. The diversity of my involvements will allow me to contribute to the current diversity of the Commission and the great work that it endeavors to do. Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am. Lorraine Troy.

Good morning. My name is Lorraine Troy and I'm honored to be here. I'm a retired special agent from the Federal Investigative Service, formerly the Defense Investigative Service. I was assigned to the Philadelphia field office from April '82 until my retirement in December of 2007. As a special agent, I conducted investigations on federal employees, applicants for federal employment, as well as government contractors to determine their suitability for access to national security information. After a 72 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 total of 31 years of civil service, I now spend my time helping children and young adults in the community. I've been a member of the Youth Aid Panel at the 18th District for ten years. Two years ago I became a Chairman of their second panel. I found that working with children is where we ought to start, because they're our future. Most of our children that I encounter through the Youth Aid Panel are angry or they have problems at home, and I found that in talking with them and trying to get them to see that the police are their friends and that the police are there for their safety, it helps to change their attitude towards the police and authorities in general. In addition to working with the Youth Aid Panel, I've also started my own mentoring program, and right now I'm working on my 501(c)(3), because I feel very passionate about helping the children and young adults in the 73 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 community make better decisions. Additionally, I volunteer to help women with breast cancer. I'm unemployed, so I have plenty of time to volunteer. I'm loving this retirement thing. I feel as though I would bring a lot to the Police Advisory Commission, because I can think on my feet, I'm a fact finder and I'm really, really good at it. I can be objective, because I've been on both sides. I was a tough kid. I was a bad kid. I was an angry kid, but I didn't get arrested, because I was a smart kid. However, I relay this to the children that I interact with to let them know if I can become a special agent, you can too. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Does special agent mean police officer?

Special agent in the Federal Service, yes. It's a criminal 74 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 justice position.

Were you a police officer?

No; special agent for Federal Investigative Service.

All right. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Angelina.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. It is an honor to stand before everybody today. I am highly appreciative to be invited to this important event. I am very honored and proud and dedicated as a civilian to be standing here. If I were nominated and selected to participate and serve on the Philadelphia Police Commission, I would be a good asset. I would be a good asset because I am very hard working, creative and determined and have very good communication skills. I can set goals and actually achieve them and meet 75 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 deadlines and finish projects on time. I feel I can bring diversity to the Commission and with my tolerance to accept things I can and cannot change, but improve ideas and theories and introduce better procedures to improve the relationship between the Philadelphia Police Department and the public. My dedication to honor, integrity and justice is what I stand for to protect the City of Philadelphia, to impose penalties on criminals, conduct investigations of civilian complaints of police conduct and improve practices. Also, to correct procedures to make them better for our City of Philadelphia. Good policies is everyone's responsibility, but it is my responsibility to cut back on crimes and make a better relationship between the police and public. God has put me forth to protect and serve on the Police Commission. I stand here before everyone. Hopefully I gain the trust of 76 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 the Commission. Thank you for your time. I would like to add one more thing. I am the granddaughter of a bonds bailsman at a criminal justice center in Center City, and hopefully I gain the trust and would keep it in the family. Thank you.

Thank you for coming. I think all of you women have -- actually, all of the applicants have included in your comments some of the questions that we've had, which is really great, and I want to thank you. We appreciate your applying. And since I'm the only Committee member sitting here at the moment -- the rest will be back shortly -- I don't have any questions, and thank you. I'll call up the next panel. Rod Herrera, Jamira Burley and Keith Kunz. (Witnesses approached witness table.) 77 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Please state your name for the record. Don't forget to pull the mike up close to you so we can hear you.

Rod Herrera.

And, Rod, you're going to go first, and then we'll have Jamira and then we'll have Keith. Thank you. Good morning.

Good morning, members of the City Council. I'm here simply because I have broad experience. I'm not a cop. I'm not an FBI agent. I'm not in law enforcement, but I do live here in Philadelphia. I feel that my job on the Commission would be to mitigate whatever is on the table and come up with a solution that would be of benefit to the City as a whole. I'm interested in improving police tactics, but also in extracting from the community a little more responsibilities in observing our laws and making sure that communication 78 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 between the Police Department and the community are such that they could be a harmonious relationship. I have two 20-year-old boys right now and I was horrified the other day when one of them asked me what really is the purpose of a cop. My kids are not in trouble, but they see the policemen as enforcers of little things, mostly as enemies of society. They see shows on TV where the police take people and they bang them around or they have hot chases where the car crashes and people end up dead. No fault of the Police Department, but I do think that we have given the Police Department a mission that is really beyond their scope to complete. The cop on the beat is not enforcing the law. He's really reacting to a physical event somewhere. The law is really being applied by lawyers. They're arresting little kids and feeding the system, a prison system, that I'm sure that by design has removed an 79 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 enormous amount of citizens that could be used in our society if they have given them a second chance or put them into school. People go to jail. It costs $40,000 a year to keep someone in jail. You give me the same person and in four years I will give you an engineer from Drexel University. But to incarcerate kids that are 16, years old and to put 12 them away forever is unfair. 13 It's also unfair to think that 14 the police is not there to uphold 15 society, which is something I have to 16 explain to my kids. How does the police 17 and society -- it's really one group. We're not two different diverse groups. I work in the Latino community quite a bit, and I know that there's a big rift and it's getting bigger between the police and the application of whatever they have to apply and the community, basically because the only time they see a policeman is when he's 80 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 giving you a ticket for going through a traffic light. Nobody is happy about getting a $100 ticket, especially if you're unemployed. And the cop has no 6 choice but to give you a ticket, because that's the assignment he's been given. Well, if these things come onto the table, I think we can all discuss them and come up with something that will be of benefit to the City, to the Police Department and to the local communities, and I see my role basically as an advocate for both sides in the meeting and coming up with solutions to improve our city. This is a beautiful city. I moved here from New York City because I love it. I really think that Philadelphia is not only a beautiful city, but it gets a black eye every time somebody publish something that is anti-police or anti-community or confrontation, and it shouldn't be so. We have probably the best city in the 81 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 United States, and I've been to many of them. As an architect, I have developed and rehabbed over 700 houses in this city, mostly dilapidated houses, in West Philly and North Philly that turn into Section 8, where the attitudes change, where communities are being helped, where the police are amicable with the communities, and that's what I would like to see. I would like to see a better relationship between the Police Department, whatever their assignments are internally, and the community, and I think that there's a broad gap that we have to bridge there. Now, if that's what you're looking for, then I'm your man.

If not, then I appreciate allowing me to come here and give you something out of my heart.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Please don't leave yet. Jamira is next, I believe, and 82 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 then Keith Kunz.

Good morning, City Councilmembers. My name is Jamira Burley and I'm a senior at Temple University where I major in International Business, Legal Studies, with minors in Chinese and Business Sustainability. I'm also the Chairwoman of the Philadelphia Youth Commission. For those who are unaware, the Philadelphia Youth Commission was voted into charter in 2008 by three-fourths of the voters in Philadelphia. It was conceived from an idea from Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown, PCCY and members of the youth who saw that there was a need in Philadelphia to have youth have a voice in City government. The Youth Commission represents ages 13 to 23. There are 21 members, 17 who are appointed by City Councilmembers and four are appointed by the Mayor. Today I testify before you in regards to my desire to receive an 83 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 appointment to the Philadelphia Police Advisory Commission. Statistics prove that youth account for more than 40 percent of the Philadelphia population, yet their input are rarely solicited. Although a decrease has been seen in criminal activity in Philadelphia, there is still an increase in criminal activity among young people. This increase in criminal activity has been seen through the most recent flash mobs and school violent acts that has not only taken place within our city but also across the country. Youth members have used these form of expression as a way to lash out, and will continue to do so if lawmakers and City officials do not start to have a better understanding of the issues and concerns facing today's youth. I recommend -- in addition to having youth representation on the Commission, I recommend and advise that youth be brought to the table of discussion when decisions about our 84 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 future are being made. Who better to speak on issues facing youth than the youth themselves? As not only a native of Philadelphia but also a youth member myself, I believe that I will be able to bring a perspective to the Commission that is normally not represented. For the years that I have been a resident 11 in Philadelphia, I have lived in some of 12 the worst neighborhoods that Philadelphia 13 has to offer and I have seen things that 14 the news has not and won't cover. But I 15 have also seen the positive and the 16 negative effects that the police have had 17 on our community. And, sadly, I have 18 watched as those effects helped shape the 19 perceptions that residents now have of 20 those officers. More importantly, to 21 this appointment, as a youth I have watched the City deteriorate with the increase in youth violence and the continuous disregard for the respect that is due our police force. 85 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 To be granted this opportunity to serve on the Police Advisory Commission would be an honor, and in turn, I will ensure that the ideas and concerns of the residents of Philadelphia, particularly the youth, do not go unheard. Lastly, I will work to restore the relationship between the police force and the young people across the City. If appointed, I look to make sure that the very people who are being paid to serve and to protect the residents of Philadelphia are doing their job to a standard in which we as a society has set forth. I would like to thank you for allowing me to testify before you today on this great opportunity.

Thank you for your testimony and your commitment to serve. Keith Kunz.

Good morning. 86 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Good morning.

First I'd like to thank you for letting me come in here today and speak. I would like to apologize for not being fully prepared for this, as I just got back from my honeymoon this morning.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you.

That's commitment.

That's commitment.

I do agree with many of my fellow applicants that I do believe the role of the Commission is as communications and to work with the Police Department. I have lived as a lifelong resident and still live in Philadelphia. I've seen many things, including the MOVE. I do have friends 87 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 that are police officers, friends that are retired police officers. I feel that, like another applicant has stated, that the Commission doesn't really have a voice. It needs more of a public voice, is what I'm trying to say. And I feel as one of the applicants that I can bring it, as my background working in journalism, in news and seeing how the different television organizations in general, they like to put their own spin on the activities that happen. I think I could give great insight into that and work with the Police Commission in trying to better deal with these. That's all I have to say today. Thank you.

Thank you. One thing I want to just mention. Mr. Herrera, you said you're not a police officer, you're not this, you're not in law enforcement. This is 88 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 for all citizens. You don't have to be in law enforcement or working in the criminal justice system to be a member of this Commission. This Commission is open to everybody.

Yes. I didn't mean to imply that, but what I meant -- actually, what I saw is an overload of applicants who are ex-FBI, ex-investigators, ex-special agents, unemployed agents. It's like they're trying to overload this Commission with a police active or military attitude about law and order. Well, that doesn't work to the citizens. We're citizens. I'm a citizen, and I want to emphasize that I'm here to represent the person who pays the bill to have these people serve us. I don't need more military ex-officers here. I don't need Vietnam veterans to come here and go into the Police Department and apply the tactics that we applied in Vietnam because it worked. 89 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Well, we understand that.

And that's the problem with the Police Department.

We understand that. That's why we've had --

So I just wanted you to consider when you make your selection, please don't have a majority of ex-law enforcement people in here.

Our process is open, diverse, and we heard your point. But I just wanted to make comment that you do not have to be any of those things.

I thank you, and I do uphold the law, you know.

Well, you can't really say it's overload. They have a right to apply. Everybody has a right to apply, and that's what we have. But we're also glad to see young people here also.

Madam Chair? 90 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Councilman Jones.

First of all, when I first came to City Council, which was three years ago, I looked around at my colleagues and I looked at the diverse mix of people, with different backgrounds, economic, religious, gender, all of those differences, and then I started calculating the demographic and how it worked. The beauty of this body is it is representative of the demographic of the City of Philadelphia. We have people of means, people that are just regular earners, and it's an interesting mix, and what happens in this process is, you get a rich amount of input that creates a fairly good decision. You know it's a good decision because everybody is mad at you at the end of it, and so it's kind of -- it goes through its paces, but at the end, all voices are heard. What I understand to be the 91 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 purpose of this is getting a mix of people from different points of view. As I look at the list of applicants, what is striking is the age difference, and some of the people that are interested, based on my quick calculations, are older. They're mature. They have time now to give back to the community and things like that. But what is of interest to me is the demographic that comes in contact with law enforcement and making sure that that demographic is represented, because as I look at those ages and dates that go back and back and back, if I asked you what a flash mob was and why it happens, can you relate to that? I went into two places in my district in the last two weeks. I used to go to a place -- I won't name the restaurant, but it's on City Avenue, and it used to be, 15 years ago, you could go in there on a Friday and sit down and have a meal. Well, when I went in there a couple weeks ago, the demographic had 92 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 changed. I felt like my grandpa in that place, but to understand that, you have to be from that. So what I hope -- and I hope the Chairman doesn't mind me -- Chairwoman -- I stand corrected -- doesn't mind me saying, is to go through these paces to hear from the more conservative side to the more liberal side, and then the hard task will be selecting out of those applicants a mix of people that will guard us from us and advise us about us, and that's what I think the spirit of the Chairwoman's point is. You could be the CEO of Pepsi or you could be the dishwasher at IHOP. It doesn't matter to us. What matters to us is your ability to present those points of view in a diverse fashion. Specifically about young people, I'm interested in statistics that show that from 18 to -- those are the 24 dangerous years -- interaction with the law, both as a victim and as a 93 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 perpetrator, and understanding there are certain cultural things that weren't there in my time that are there now, like, We don't care if we get caught and we don't care what happens in the arrest, and that's a dangerous kind of "us against them" mindset that we need to deal with, and I wanted to hear your perspective on that.

I would have to agree. A lot of the people I come into contact with have this idea of a dog-eat-dog world or they don't have anything to live with, and I think that's one of the most dangerous things that a police officer has to deal with, is that you're now fighting against or you're trying to impose the law in someone who doesn't care about the law or neither has anything to live for. And I think that's a perception that we as a society have to change in order for these people to start respecting the law in which officers are trying to set forth. 94 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

I agree, and I wanted to hear that from -- because, again, I'm older than you, but I wanted to hear that, because that's what I hear in my barber shop, and that scares me most of all. I grew up with the notion that at the end of my career, there would be a gold watch. I'd work somewhere, I'd raise a family. They don't see that far. They don't care that far sometimes, and that's scary to me.

I actually have a little brother. He's now, and his 15 goal is just to make it to 25. And I 16 know a lot of people like that who don't think that they're even going to see the age of 25. So I think that's just heartbreaking in itself.

So it's my hope that we get a rich amount of experience from everyone, Ms. Chairwoman, but we'd better get some people that can relate to all generations, all -- you got to know the difference between Washington 95 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Avenue and Washington Lane, and if you don't, then you're not going to be value added to this Commission. Thank you, Madam Chair.

That's exactly right, Mr. Councilman. Laws when we were young were laws. They're no longer applicable. I mean, I see my kids are hanging out with kids that are smoking. I look the other way, frankly, because I'm confused. Is the law applicable or isn't applicable? Is marijuana legal? It isn't legal, how much they carry. You know, and I understand also the confusion not only of the kids' part but on the policemen part, and this is where we have to help, not only here but I think the whole judicial system has to also help the Police Department. You can't ask someone to go out there, implement something when he's not really sure if it's a crime or not, you know. Well, I think basically we're all here for the good of the City, and I 96 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 do appreciate that you do recognize that and that you were up on it, and I'm comfortable going home knowing that you are all very much aware of what I'm considering to be a very important issue.

Thank you.

Thank you. And we think it's an important issue too, and that's why we have this hearing and have applicants come in. I want to thank all three of you for coming in and showing an interest in becoming a member of this Advisory Commission. Thank you. (Thank you.)

Is there anyone who has not signed in? (No response.)

Because our next two candidates, next two applicants, Curtis Pontz and Reverend Robert Shine. (Witnesses approached witness table.) 97 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

Good morning.

Good morning.

Don't forget to pull the mike up close so we can hear you. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony or comments. Mr. Pontz.

My name is Curtis Pontz and I thank you for providing me with the opportunity to speak before City Council in support of my application to serve as a member of the Police Advisory Commission. My ties to Philadelphia run deep. I was born in this city, am a lifelong Philadelphia resident and a graduate of a Philadelphia university and a Philadelphia law school. I refer you to my resume for a full list of my many contributions to the civic life of this city. I view service on the Commission as another opportunity to contribute on a 98 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 volunteer basis to an essential civic need; namely, that of improving and ultimately solidifying the relationship between the Police Department and the City's residents. My background includes five years in the position of Deputy Attorney General with the Pennsylvania Department of Justice, as Chief of the Criminal Law Assistance Division of the Department's Office of Criminal Law for two of those years, with duties including serving as Senior Counsel to the Pennsylvania State Police, in which role I gained a keen insight into issues related to police conduct, operations and protocol. Subsequently, two additional years were spent as attorney in charge of the Scranton and Harrisburg offices of the Pennsylvania Crime Commission, as well as of all Crime Commission investigations in five suburban Philadelphia counties. In my role as Deputy Attorney General, as well as during service for a year as 99 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Deputy Special Counsel and Senior Investigator of a Philadelphia Bar Association investigation into unethical solicitation by Philadelphia lawyers, I helped organize, plan and direct the completion of sensitive investigative assignments. From 1994 to 2001, I served as Director of Compliance programs for a Forbes 300 company. In that capacity, I was responsible for the continued development of the company's compliance program aimed at providing employees with an understanding of the company's expectations related to legal and ethics matters and preventing violations of the company's policies and procedures. I directed all compliance training activities, as well as enforcement of the company's Code of Ethics and Business Conduct Guidelines among 10,000 employees. I am retired from my former full-time corporate position and 100 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 presently serve as an Adjunct Professor at Drexel University, where for the past eight years I have taught a course about occupational ethics. I will be able to devote considerable time to the tasks and responsibilities of a Commission member without having to face the competing constraints and tugs of full-time employment. I strongly believe that my background, including my work teaching about occupational ethics, eminently qualifies me to help the Commission accomplish the goal of gaining the high regard it would hopefully want for itself as a respected and effective component of City governance. Thank you.

Thank you. Reverend Shine.

Good morning.

Good morning. 101 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272

My name is Reverend Robert Shine, a Pastor of the Berachah Baptist Church. I have pastored in Philadelphia for 40 years and have taught in the seminary in Philadelphia for more than years and have organized 8 two charter schools in Philadelphia, the 9 World Communications Charter School at 10 Broad and South and the FACT Charter 11 School, FACT meaning Folk Art and 12 Technical Charter School. And that's 13 being led by a dear friend, Debbie Wei. 14 In addition to that, we have 15 been very active in social and civic 16 matters as far as police and citizens 17 relationships have been concerned. Since 18 1996, '97, I was recommended to the 19 Police Advisory Commission and was 20 appointed by the Mayor and have been 21 serving on the Commission since then. 22 We've been actively involved and called 23 upon from the Governor's Office, the 24 Mayor's Office, even our national 25 offices, our senators have called upon 102 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 us, to be engaged in what seemingly have been allegations of police brutality, excessive police force. We have done that successfully from the time when the Tom Jones beating occurred and we took on the then-District Attorney Lynne Abraham inasmuch as then we insisted on her creation of a task force within her department, of which I served as a member, to explore and to examine ways by which we could reduce crime and the criminal element in our city. We also were effective as far as conducting at the Temple University a forum on reentry, resocialization, rehumanization of ex-offenders. We engaged the services of members of City Council and of State Representatives to sit together and to interview and to solicit from returnees, which is now what we call ex-offenders, because we discovered that the term "ex-offenders" was, in and of itself, offensive to them. It continued to lower their self-esteem. 103 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 It was an idea by which to reduce recidivism. In addition to that, in working cooperatively with the District Attorney, Lynne Abraham, it was because of the excessive sentencing guidelines that were imposed where those with lesser felonous convictions were given extreme sentencing, and we were very concerned about that issue. We were concerned about the overcrowding in the prison. We were concerned about these matters, and thus this created for us the background of experience not only with the shootings. The most recent shootings that we were involved in and asked by Channel 6, Dan Cuellar, to get involved in was the shooting of the police officer at 70th and Broad, when we were asked to come on the television to ask the victim, John Lewis, if he would turn himself in to us and we would find representation for him, which in fact we did. Michael Coard was the attorney representing him. 104 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 We were involved in many of these incidents throughout the City for a good while now. So ours has been hands-on experiences. We've worked with City Councilmembers when we went to various homes, as the Commission would do. The Commission itself has an oversight role. The oversight role of the Commission is to talk to, investigate and to gain knowledge, the intelligences from citizens who have been adversely affected by perhaps what -- until we had further knowledge of the issue, the incident, we would have interviewed, sworn statements by victims, sworn statements by witnesses, and then we would evaluate those per committee. On the Commission, there are committees set up so that each committee would have an opportunity to discuss, review, to investigate and then to make recommendations to the Police Commissioner and to the Mayor and to 105 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 Internal Affairs. We've worked with both entities of City government, the Police Commissioner, the Mayor and the Internal Affairs -- we worked with all three -- to find better ways to improve the quality of life for every citizen.

Many of the incidents that were brought to our attention -- and there have been a number of them, but by virtue of the Commission, many of those incidents have begun to reduce, and we've seen some very positive effects about police and community relationships. Ofttimes, the Commission would go out into the community. We just do not sit behind the desk as volunteers, but we go out into the community and we hold community meetings to ascertain from the citizens what their problems are with policing in various communities. Our discovery has been very detailed. We found that there are some incidents where there is abuse, police abuse. We found some incidents where upon review of all 106 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 of the data collected and then visiting the site of a particular incident, we would find many facts that warrant our strong recommendation. One of the things that we did, we interviewed the Police Commissioner a few months ago and we asked the Police Commissioner what was his thoughts about the Commission, to which he agreed that the Commission had a vital role to play in the City, for which we also agreed. So ours is a broad range of approaches to not only dealing with the intelligence that we collect, interviewing the witnesses as well as the police officers involved, but also in trying not just to bring about harmony and a quality of life, but making sure that the citizens are being protected. The role of the police is to protect the citizens, and in doing that, we want to be sure that they do not use excessive force in doing that. Ofttimes, we have found some 107 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 incidents and we've concurred that those incidents were worthy of merit that they be submitted to the Mayor for further decision-making. As an example, there was an incident that occurred, and the police -- a number of police officers abused the citizen, and then it went to arbitration after he was discharged, put on office duty, and the arbitrator then had a ruling that the officers could be freed, but evidence by the video revealed contrary to that. So the issue then raised is whether or not an arbitrator independent, the Commissioner, the Mayor, the Commission, whether or not there was any strength in the four entities of City government prevailing in an incident that was obvious to the citizens when you looked at the video. So there are some issues with which it takes a great deal of sensitivity and takes a great deal of experience and not just novice experience in a role of this magnitude. I recognize 108 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 that there is a need for the youth and younger, but when it comes to very legal, hard decision-making, standing by decisions that you have made that may be unpopular in many venues, but I believe that what we must do if we're going to produce quality of life further and the citizens of Philadelphia be more comfortable with the policing in their communities, then there needs to be something broader, which the Commission does offer, and we expect that this is what can happen, and we're glad to have served these many years and will continue to do so as long as we give satisfactory service.

Thank you, Reverend Shine, for your comments. You know, we know it's important to have folks on this Commission that are going to be fair and objective. So most people coming in here today -- actually, everybody has actually talked about how they want to serve and 109 6/1/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 100272 the fact that they are going to be fair and objective, both for the police side and for the public side. So I want to personally again thank you for coming in. I don't have any questions. I've listened to both of you and read your comments. So at this point, I just need to know if there's anyone else in the Chambers that wants to testify that's an applicant for the Police Advisory Commission. (No response.)

Seeing none, this concludes the public hearing on the Committee on Public Safety, and this hearing is being adjourned to Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 1:30 p.m. Thank you. (Committee on Public Safety adjourned at 11:30 a.m.) - - - 110 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 1, 2010, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)