Yes. Just a couple of follow-up questions regarding your recruitment challenges. What are the minimum age requirements? COMMISSIONER KING: I believe you have to be -- 19, and you have to 12 have a GED and a driver's license. 13
What are 14 the linkages with CCP for young people 15 who want to major in criminal justice and 16 start with an Associate Degree? 17 COMMISSIONER KING: I know that 18 the recruitment unit has touched base 19 with CCP. They started going over there 20 with the Fire Department and the Police Department. My anecdotal conversations with Commissioner Ayers tells me that CCP is a good place to recruit. It's where the Fire Department says they get their best recruits from CCP. So we are at CCP 82 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 and we've just in the last month or two, since we've got the recruitment unit up, going to places like CCP and trying to get people to come into corrections. And part of the challenge also is, if you go on the City's website -- that's why we updated ours -- and you go, I want to be a CO, it says you start off at 32,000, I think it is, and then 50 years later when you're done, you're only making 38. So who would want to take that as sort of a lifetime thing? So we've tried to update the website, so when you go to our website, you see that there's career advancement. You can be a Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, Warden, whatever it is.
Are you on the City's channel, 63, 64, that talks about various City departments? COMMISSIONER KING: I don't know. I'd have to check on that.
I think that would be a good place. People do 83 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 flip to that channel every now and then and they do listen to watch City Council on Thursdays, and public meetings are there and other programs are provided on that channel as a means to recruit. Now, is there any -- if you hire 43 people, how will that alleviate this -- help you with your staffing and providing more people to this triple celling? COMMISSIONER KING: It will help. It's not the help that we require immediately. I mean, it's a minimal amount of help. It's better than not having the 43. But another issue that comes up, as we train the 43, we're losing people. So our attrition rate is ten to 12 a month, I believe. So if it takes --
Why are they leaving? COMMISSIONER KING: Various reasons.
Such as? 84 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 COMMISSIONER KING: Some people come to the prisons, it's a weigh station before they go to the Police Department. Some people come -- there are few people -- it's a weigh station to the Fire Department. Some people don't like the shifts at the prison, so they want to go to the Sheriff's Department. Some people retire. It's a whole host of different reasons.
What is the average stay of a correctional officer? What's the length of employment? COMMISSIONER KING: I couldn't answer that question. I know a lot of people like Mr. Thompson, for example, who have been working at the Prison System for decades. All the gentlemen sitting behind me, my Wardens, Deputy Commissioners, they've all been working there a very long time. So there are a lot of people at the prison who meet the challenges and they're very dedicated 85 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 City employees and stay there for years, and then there are other people who have different ideas and things that --
I guess my question is, is there any way to do an analysis of the number of individuals who seek employment with your department? Is there any analysis of how long they stay? Certainly you're going to have some employees who stay a long time, but if there's a constant overturn, where does that take place? Do they stay a year? Do they stay six months? Do they stay a year? Do you have the ability to do that analysis so that you can also understand probably why people are leaving and maybe look internally as to what changes may have to take place in order to maintain the staff once you recruit them? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I think that I'm sure we have the data somewhere in the prison where we could look at it and say, This is the average length of time somebody stays based on 86 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 our records. I don't know if that's automated so we can do it right away, but I certainly can check into that. I know that when people leave, they're asked to do an exit interview. It's not mandatory, but we do get them and I do see those, and that's how I can tell you anecdotally why people leave, because when they do fill out the exit interview, they tell us. Sometimes it's because they don't like the people, they don't like working at the prison, but most of the time, I'm moving to Florida, I'm going to the Police Department, what-have-you. I mean, I can go back and figure out if we can put that together, but, generally speaking, there's a whole host of different reasons why people leave the prisons.
Well, it seems to me, Commissioner, that it's a serious situation and that you and your staff might want to have that information 87 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 on an ongoing basis so that you'll know what's going on with your system and address some of the issues that are raised to help better recruit or help you in your recruitment process. It's not just for you, but all of the other people that are part of your team, to know and understand what's happening in the Prison System, why people come, why people leave and have more than an anecdotal reason but more of factual detail based on numbers and other documentation as to why they're leaving so that we can look at the system and respond to some of the comments made about what's happening up there and we better have a debate on fact than -- COMMISSIONER KING: That's what I'm all about, and that's just one of the things I haven't gotten to yet, but we will.
Tell me about the 24-point plan that we were supposed to receive in October or 88 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 sometime. COMMISSIONER KING: You were supposed to receive?
Well, we want to talk about it. You said that there was a 24-point plan. And it would seem to me that if there's a 24-point plan or any kind of plan to help address some of the issues that have been raised during these discussions, the Administration might want to share it with the Council. COMMISSIONER KING: The 24-point plan has been looked at. It's been revised. I think the number of initiatives has been reduced to a more workable number, and the City Solicitor is the one who chairs that group. He knows more about the details, but we continue to meet and work on that. But Prisons really isn't the focal agency as it were. The issues surround what the courts are doing.
Councilman 89 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 Kenney.
Thank you. Is there a prison system national standard for numbers of inmates per square footage, numbers of correctional officers per inmates? I mean, obviously there are goals, but is there a standard which is accepted as the best? COMMISSIONER KING: There are national standards for different things. There is no national standard for inmate-to-staff ratios, because it depends on the facility, how it's set up. For example, at RCF, the population is different. There are females. That's not the jail where we find shanks and weapons. This is not where people are stabbing themselves. It's set up so that there are sight lines for unit controls and center controls, and we have more cameras in RCF than any of the other jails combined. So it's different for each jail. 90 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
Is there a standard for square footage per prisoner, cell space? COMMISSIONER KING: There is a standard for square footage in regard to a living area for inmates.
What is that? COMMISSIONER KING: I don't know off the top of my head.
Does anyone there know? My concern or question is how far off we are on that standard. Not that every facility is perfect around the country, but how far off are we on triple celling prisoners and square footage. COMMISSIONER KING: When the jails were built, we built them as best we could to those national standards, so when you put a triple cell in a cell that was built for two, obviously there are going to be issues with what the national standards are. We're going through the process right now. The national 91 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 accrediting body is called the American Correctional Association, and we've had them up to the prison and we're going through that whole process to specifically find out where we're in compliance and where we're not.
Is that a report that's going to be issued? COMMISSIONER KING: No. They come and they tell us where they think there's a whole -- there's a book you can order that says these are the standards, and they say this is where you have issues and this is where you need to work. In Monmouth I know they triple cell inmates and they're accredited, so...
So you're going through an accreditation process right now? COMMISSIONER KING: We're starting that, yes.
When will that end? 92 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 COMMISSIONER KING: I don't know. They just came a month ago.
How long does it take; do you know? COMMISSIONER KING: It depends on what the issues are, because we have to decide whether they're going to do all six facilities. Two of them are pretty old. Maybe we'll decide not to do that. So in the next year, I would hope we would be pretty close to completing that process.
What is the status of the electronic monitoring system and getting some of these people with ankle bracelets out of the facilities and under electronic monitoring? COMMISSIONER KING: The last I remember hearing about that when it was discussed at the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee, the Administration did make funds available for -- 93 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
Did or didn't? COMMISSIONER KING: Did make extra funds available for electronic monitoring, and the last I remember hearing was that everybody in custody that met the current criteria for electronic monitoring had been exhausted, and that is the last I remember hearing about it. I don't know whether they've expanded the criteria or not, but that's the last report I got on the --
What was the date of that last report? COMMISSIONER KING: Months ago.
Months ago? Can you initiate another look at that or -- COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we're meeting -- the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee is meeting this week, I think, and I can bring it up again.
There was 94 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 testimony earlier about the communication system, about not every officer having a walkie-talkie and that besides CFCF there's a shared band with all the other facilities that seem to cause problems with stepping on transmissions. Do you have any information on that? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we're very, very concerned about the radio system at the prison. Two or three weeks ago we did a riot simulation at CFCF just to go through a dry run-through, and we did have issues with the radios and some radios being found in places where they weren't charged. And there is that issue that the correctional officer brought up about the radios, and the issue with that is, we inherited the old system that the Police and everybody else had when they upgraded, and that system was better than the one we had, but it's not where we need to be. So we went through this whole scenario. I brought the issue up again 95 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 with the Managing Director's Office. The new young lady who is in charge of emergency management is coming up to the prison this week or next so we can sit down and discuss that. But we do have issues with communication and the radios. Even if I call in from my car, I might have to wait before two other people, whoever jumps in before me. So we do have issues with the radios and we're trying to correct those.
Is it standard or is it reasonable that every officer should have at least a radio? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, off the top of my head, I would say yes, it would be reasonable that everyone has a communication device, but that's -- that's not where we are at the prison.
I mean, do we know how many we need and what the costs are? I mean, those kinds of specifics. COMMISSIONER KING: I could get 96 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 you those. I don't know it off the top of my head.
I mean, with all the things we've talked about, some of the stuff is out of your hands relative to court orders and other types of things and the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee and the Managing Director, but as far as having radios in people's hands, I mean, that's something that I think we could at least be a little bit effective with in kind of demanding and trying to transfer some money to you to buy radios. I mean, it's like not having a textbook in a grade school. It's kind of basic. COMMISSIONER KING: Like I said, I think the feeling was we would get the radios that the Police Department had and those would be better than the ones that we had, but they still face challenges. And, actually, when I -- this is what I -- I don't know if I should say. Anyway, when I left my house 97 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 that day for the drill, I have a radio in my van and I went -- I turned it to the emergency station and it went dead. So it's certainly an issue that we have to work on, and it's part of a bigger issue about emergency management at the prison and what happens when a chemical spill -- chemical cloud comes down State Road. What are we supposed to do with 8,900 inmates and 2,300 employees?
Probably be better coordinated if everybody had a radio. COMMISSIONER KING: I agree.
I would appreciate finding out how many you need and what the costs are, even if we have to deal with the system problem at some point. At least having -- that's the only weapon I assume they have, is a radio. Thank you.
Blondell Reynolds Brown. 98 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 In the emergency preparedness plan that was released by the Managing Director's Office maybe now months 5 ago, maybe two years ago, there was no 6 component or chapter of that document 7 that spoke specifically to how the Prison 8 System would handle emergency 9 preparedness? 10 COMMISSIONER KING: I don't 11 remember. 12 Was there anything on there? 13 No. 14
Were you 15 on the committee? 16 COMMISSIONER KING: I was 17 involved. 18
What does that mean? COMMISSIONER KING: We had a lot of meetings on this. I came, gave my opinion and then they were broken out into little groups and the report came together.
And the 99 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 answer to the question was, no, there was no chapter devoted to preparedness for the Philadelphia Prison System? COMMISSIONER KING: Correct.
So that underscores Councilman Jim Kenney's request of coordination between City departments, and it goes to Councilwoman Tasco's request for documentation and sort of justifies the request for A, B, C, D, E, F, G, which leads to a better solution for prison overcrowding. It just seems to me to be all tied together. COMMISSIONER KING: It is. I mean, the number one issue that drives everything at the prison is the number of inmates you have. I don't want to subject my officers to triple celling. I don't want to subject my officers to four people in a room that was designed for a social worker. I don't want to do that. If I had my way, I'd stop up the flow. I did that last year and got myself in a lot of trouble. I said, We're not taking 100 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 any more inmates until we get some empty beds, and that got us in trouble, landed us in court, because that's not what people want to do. So I don't want to do all that. I want everyone to be happy, feel secure, not feel like people are taking advantage. But it's a tough nut to crack with the emergency what we do at the prison, because let's say there's an issue with -- there was a fire the other week at the prison. What are we supposed to do with the 8,900 inmates? Do we have 8,900 handcuffs, 8,900 shackles? Do we have enough buses to ship 8,900 inmates? Where are we going to take the 8,900 inmates and how is the public going to react when there are buses driving down State Road filled with inmates and we're taking them to where, Veterans Stadium? Is the public going to want -- you understand what I'm saying? Even if you were to say release them, okay, we'll release the low-level folks. If we 101 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 release 40 low-level people -- 4,000 low-level people on State Road, you still have to have a plan as to where they go. So it's a really mind-boggling problem when it comes to that sort of thing.
So in the monthly meetings that you have, wouldn't that be the proper place to raise those types of circumstances? COMMISSIONER KING: The issues -- I just think that we're making a progression with the emergency preparedness plan. Like I said, we're meeting with the new emergency management person, Ms. Maricopa, I think her name is. She's coming up this week or next week so that we can sit down and say, Here's the problem, we got to take it to the next level about what it is we're going to do in the case of an emergency.
So to reiterate Councilman Jim Kenney's question, what is the short-term plan for 102 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 more radios? COMMISSIONER KING: Short-term plan is right now to meet with Ms. Maricopa and lay out what the issues are with the radios and the problems we had during the mock riot and see what it is she can do to facilitate the resources we need to upgrade those things.
All right. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Commissioner, what is your answer to the triple celling? COMMISSIONER KING: My answer to the triple celling?
What would you do? What is your answer to that? I mean, it's an issue raised by some of the employees here about triple celling and also -- I guess my question is, what can you do about any of this? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I can be as creative as I can in finding places 103 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 for inmates to be that is a situation where everybody is as safe and secure as possible, but, again, triple celling, if you have a housing area designed for a hundred and I got to triple cell and it is now 150, you've just raised all the issues that the officers have to deal with by 50 people. So it makes it more difficult. I don't want to do it. It's the best choice amongst all the evil alternatives I have. But I would do, for example -- I was talking to Commissioner Horn in New York the other day. I was up there speaking to him. Their prison population has been reduced from 23,000 to 14,000. I said, How did you do that? Was that on purpose or was it a plan? I mean, was it an accident or was it plan? He said, It's kind of sort of a mixture of both. What they did was, they cut crime in the City of New York by locking up all the bad people and sending them 104 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 upstate. Two -- and this is why I keep emphasizing the judiciary -- they sped up processing of felony cases by 30 to 40 percent. They sped up the processing of misdemeanor cases by 30 to 40 percent, meaning people are spending less time in jail, meaning the population goes down. And then the fourth thing they did was, they reorganized their Probation Department. They said, We're not going to violate people because this is the second time you didn't show up for your appointment. They have kiosks. So in New York, you go to a kiosk. You say, I'm here. If you don't show up the first time, the computer sends you a letter. Second time you don't go, sends you a letter. Third time you don't go, it issues a warrant, and then if you bump into the police at any other time, then maybe you have a problem. And then they took the probation officers who were watching those little tiny people who were doing minor -- arrested or on 105 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 probation for minor things and they focused them on the people who hadn't got to the level of where they were going off to state prison for ten or years. 6 That's how you reduce the 7 population. Granted, New York and 8 Philadelphia are different, but that's 9 the type of plan you have to have in 10 place to effectuate this. 11
What makes 12 it different? Why couldn't we do that? 13 COMMISSIONER KING: I just 14 think that we haven't evolved yet to the 15 place where everyone is ready to sit down 16 and sort of be decisive about that. 17
Who makes 18 that happen? 19 COMMISSIONER KING: Well, 20 whoever wants to take leadership of the issue. I think the Mayor has done a good job in taking leadership of the issue. Before he came along, we didn't have a Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee. We didn't have a 24-point plan. We 106 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 didn't have a Solicitor who was in charge of the committee. And I guess we could all disagree about whether they're moving fast enough or not, but we have a foundation here. It's just that all those people on that committee -- the Mayor can only do so much. He can't -- if he was here, he'd probably say the same thing I'm saying. He doesn't want to triple cell. He doesn't want these officers to feel like they're taking advantage of them and they're not safe. The point is, the Mayor can't say, Okay, speed up those cases in criminal division of the Court of Common Pleas. Look at your bail guidelines. Take care of the backlog. The Mayor can't order people to do that.
Has he had a discussion with the courts to talk about that? COMMISSIONER KING: Yes. On the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee, those are some of the things 107 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 that we talk about. Judge Fitzgerald before he was elevated to the Supreme Court instituted a process whereby they sped up the number of serious felony cases and how they were processed. It's just that -- and we know the processing times have increased, but the prison population hasn't. So the next step that people are working on is, well, are you saying -- you have to put a priority on cases where people are in custody. You got to make sure you're speeding up the process for that. We have another situation in the City where in the summer everybody goes on vacation. So if you're unlucky and you get arrested June 15th, you better consider yourself lucky if everybody who needs to be there to process your case, your public defender, your DE, the police officer, the judge, they're not one of them on vacation all over the summer, because then the case gets slowed down and instead of having it 108 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 take a month, it may take three. So there's all sorts to issues like that that have to be addressed. We started doing them and we need to take it to the next level. Otherwise, we're going to continue to be here and this really -- I mean, this is a symptom of the problem, the union being upset and concerned, as am I, about what's going on at the prison and we're sitting here sort of saying, This is what we think should be done, when the hearing -- what we should be focusing on in addition to this is, what is the bigger criminal justice system doing. And what concerns me -- and I don't know what word to use. Last year we were in the prison litigation and I had to go down and testify. Everybody is concerned about inmates, and they should be, and that's what the lawsuit is about. We want the inmates to be safe and secure. We want to make sure we're not violating their constitutional rights, but what everybody forgets about 109 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 is that overcrowding isn't just about constitutional rights of the inmates. It's about the staff who work there. The more inmates you put in the jail, the more difficult it makes for them to do their job, and the risk that something happens increases. So overpopulation is not just about inmates' constitutional rights. It's about the safety and security of the COs, the correctional officers, the social workers and everybody else who works there.
In the New York model, who took the lead to take action to alleviate the prison overcrowding? COMMISSIONER KING: I know early on they had a strong person. I think it was like a Deputy Mayor or someone who like oversaw the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee, but then I think it was when the subsequent Mayors and people in the criminal justice system 110 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 together sat down, because people were fed up with crime, how are we going to redeploy what we have. That's what -- and that's what needs to be done, because if you go back, Mr. Eskind, our Public Information Officer, was reading the newspapers from 1952 and the headline is, Prisons are Overcrowded and the Union is Complaining to the Administration that You're Doing Nothing About It. I mean, it's an ongoing problem for decades. And when we had -- even when the courts are supervising, the prison population still went up. We got to build some facilities. So it's an ongoing problem. Until society says we're going to prioritize things differently, this is what's going to continue to happen.
Let me just ask you one last question. In the testimony earlier, Ms. Mims testified about the ratio of inmates to 111 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 correctional officer, and in your testimony you say that there is no 4 official agreement to that. Is that true? COMMISSIONER KING: It's absolutely true. There is no agreement. That's why Mr. Thompson, he knows -- he and I have been working together for a while, and he knows. Where is this agreement? I haven't seen it. They haven't produced it. There is no 13 agreement. We operate a certain way at CFCF and we can operate -- that's management's prerogative how we deploy and --
Is there an industry standard -- COMMISSIONER KING: No. 20
-- to the number of inmates to a correctional officer? COMMISSIONER KING: No. Again, it's based more on the design of the facility. I was up in New York a week 112 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 and a half ago and their ratios are different than ours. I've been to Montgomery County, Bucks County, all sorts of jails and prisons around, and their ratios are different than ours. Actually, if you compare us to other jurisdictions, we're more staff rich than other places. So it depends on the level and I think -- it just depends.
But they don't have as many inmates as we do. COMMISSIONER KING: Well, they may not have as many inmates overall, but, for example, in Monmouth County, they have 1,500 inmates. They're all in one facility. So RCF you have whatever it is today, 800-and-something. But what I said was -- I said to Deputy Commissioner Brockenbrough, I said, Go sit down with Warden Giorla, because we don't agree with the -- that we're bound by what we do at PICC, because it's different than CF, it's different than House of Correction. I said, Sit down 113 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 with the Warden and find out what he thinks is the appropriate staffing level in RCF given the fact that we're putting beds up. If he had come back and said, Commissioner, I think it should be the same in RCF as it is at CFCF, I would have said, Okay, that's fine, but that's not what happened. He came back and, This is what we think we can do and this is what we think is safe and secure based on everything that's happening. And, again, I'm open to talk to the union, but they have to come up with an alternative proposal. It can't be, There's an agreement, which doesn't exist, and you have to follow it. It has to be, Okay, Commissioner, I understand you want to do this, this is what we have to offer, and then maybe you work out a compromise. But it can't be one side takes all when there's no lawsuit or anything like that to back up the argument. And I don't think Warden Giorla or Deputy Commissioner 114 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 Brockenbrough, all of whom worked in jails for decades, I have no reason to question their judgment about this.
This is my final question, I think. Who are members of the Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee? COMMISSIONER KING: Let's see. The Chairman of -- the person who chairs it in the name of the Mayor is the City Solicitor. Then we have the President Judge of Municipal Court, the Administrative Judge of Court of Common Pleas, the Court Administrator for the Court of Common Pleas, the Deputy Court Administrator for the Court of Common Pleas. The DA sends a representative. The Public Defender sends a couple of representatives. We have a couple other people from the Law Department, people from the Prisons, people from the Sheriff, everybody -- I think I got everybody. Clerk of Quarter Sessions, Probation/Parole -- well, the Probation 115 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 Department and the Police. So everybody is there.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, you mention in your testimony that you're very close to having a bail office located at the Prison System. How much of this would reduce your triple celling once this gets functioning? COMMISSIONER KING: That's hard to predict. Something will have to look -- and I don't know how necessarily, but the goal is -- because part of what we think is the -- if you have to -- I don't know. On a Friday afternoon you come down and you pay your bail at CJC and you've got to wait for a fax or a piece of paper to go up to CFCF, et cetera, et cetera, you may be delaying someone two days or longer at the prison. 116 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 But if you come up, the bail office is right there, you deal with it in CMR, you can get out in a matter of hours. The theory is that that will reduce the population. I don't know how I'll be able to specifically tie it to triple celling, but our goal is to do everything that we can possibly do or get people to agree to do to reduce the population, and we think speeding up the bail process is one of those things.
You still haven't done any surveys to see how much this would reduce the population, by having a bail office right there? COMMISSIONER KING: No. I don't know --
But it gives me the impression that you think that this definitely would make a -- will bring down the number of inmates you house, because this bailing stuff because it is being done downtown versus on site 117 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 and that you wind up with, like you said in your testimony, families that want to get their kins out of your jail but they can't because the process -- the bureaucracy is too slow. So, I mean, by what you state, it seems like this can significantly -- COMMISSIONER KING: I hope that it does have a significant effect. I'm not sure. We'll have to see how it works and keep track of it. For example, I don't know how I would say if you were going to do a bail -- like predict who would use the bail window and what type of inmates they'd be bailing out. I'd have to wait until we had it up and see who is using the credit card, who is coming up to the jail to bail people out, what inmates those are.
When do you think this bail office is going to open up? COMMISSIONER KING: I'm expecting it immediately. I mean, we've 118 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 been talking about it now for about a month. I know the room has been identified. I know the Court has said we are going to dedicate staff. Everything is in place. So I would hope within the next month or less that we'd have that up and running. I know the credit cards are doing that now.
I surely hope -- and if we can be of any help, if I can be of any help in saying, Let's get this done, we need to get this done to see if in fact -- because I believe it can in fact start resolving the problem of triple celling and the concerns that you have and the union about triple celling. But in this committee, this Coordinating Committee that you refer to, is there talk about how do you change the -- this is very, very difficult. Now you talk about changing maybe even the mindset of -- changing the mindset of people, because the mindset here is 119 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 probably throughout the country. A lot of people are against building new prisons and expanding prisons, and you have people that don't want you housing any of your inmates or expanding into their neighborhood or using a facility in their neighborhood or building a facility in our neighborhoods to do this. It's like everywhere you go, everyone is saying no to you. We don't want you to -- more prisons is not the way to go. Don't bring them into my neighborhood. I mean, is that type of discussion going on? Has anyone broken through the ice of that very difficult opposition that's understandable? COMMISSIONER KING: The discussion goes on. I bring it up whenever I possibly can. One of the things we try to do is just raise the profile of the Prison System in a positive light, tell our story, tell what our issues are. Because what I say it is really -- when we talk about triple 120 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 celling at the prisons and we talk about the difficulties that the officers are going through, it's really our fault as a community, because the community decides what's important. And until the community decides what is it they want to do, Mr. McDonald, either you build a lot more prisons somewhere in the City or you come up, as the Mayor has started to do, with a more comprehensive plan on what you're going to do with people and decide -- what you need to decide is that we want the dangerous people who are going to hurt us in prison and those people who are just nuisances; for example, I don't know, I was driving on a suspended license and the judge puts me in jail for 60 days, if I had my way and I was the Commissioner and you didn't have a prior record, you'd go to work release, you'd go to a day reporting center, you'd come on the weekends. Those are the type of things that you have to do to address these problems. 121 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
Commissioner, I think that given the circumstances, you're doing a good job under some very, very difficult surrounding circumstances. Since I have been in and out of your -- thank God, not as an inmate -- in and out of your facilities over the years, I continue to visit you, meaning the Prison System, either through ministry or my work here or what other capacity I have served in my adult life, and it is a very, very difficult job to do, extremely difficult. I visited a state prison recently and I was so happy that the place did not look so dark as it did the last time I had been there maybe two years ago. It was freshly painted. The color design was different, and the inmates were painting, exhibiting their artwork, and the place looked different. And those type of things, I think, help be able to maintain the prison safe and keep the population, who, to a greater 122 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 extent, understands that they've done something wrong and need to pay the price for it. But I don't envy your job, and the only thing I can see myself is only trying to be supportive, understanding that it's a very, very difficult operation. Thank you for your work. COMMISSIONER KING: Thank you. And I just want to say it's not -- I don't run the prisons by myself, but I have all these great people behind me that help me do it, and it trickles on down. The Prison Commissioner is nothing without the line staff and everybody that works between to do the job. And I often say at the prisons, one of our problems is, we're so good at dealing with the challenges that we're given, granted, it's good that we have officers who care enough to come here in City Council and let you know what they're feeling and thinking, but everybody there does a good job and every year we get another 123 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 challenge and we do pretty good with that. I don't know what Mr. McDonald thinks. He's looking at me, but that's what happens.
A couple of questions. The Coordinating Committee, is there anything to prohibit City Council from having a presence on that committee? COMMISSIONER KING: You'd have to ask the City Solicitor that one. I don't know.
Not a problem. Second question, you say each year you're given new challenges. Cite for us two or three accomplishments from this past year that were presented as challenges maybe months ago where 21 there's now been improvement. 22 COMMISSIONER KING: Well, for 23 example, the lawsuit that we got last 24 year, we went from a situation in the receiving room where we had lots of 124 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 people and now we've reduced that down to a hundred people that we have in the receiving room. People are going through there in hours. They're in a bed in 6 less than 72, and people are doing that 7 without -- not a lot of additional staff 8 and they're doing it with more inmates. 9 So that's number one. 10 The same thing at CFCF in the 11 intake area with the triple cells. It's 12 192 extra beds that are in that intake 13 area at CFCF. We haven't had a major 14 incident. No one has been hurt. The 15 inmates are processed. I'm not getting a 16 lot of grievances from there. The Prison 17 System adapted, responded to that 18 situation. 19 And the same thing, I think, at 20 RCF. So far -- granted, it's only been 21 two weeks -- the staff there has adapted 22 to that situation. They're going to make 23 it work. I have every confidence that 24 they will, and that's why I say that's the Prison System's greatest asset. 125 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 Because four years ago, we adapted and put triple cells at House of Correction. We did such a good job, now everyone thinks I guess we should keep them forever. We don't think so. But those are some of the challenges that we faced. The Wardens, we've been on them, despite the fact that they have not as much staff as they would like that their posts may require. Assaults are still down or at the same level.
What's still down? COMMISSIONER KING: Assaults on inmate and staff across the system is down. Use of force is either consistent or down. And the length of time that inmates spend in their cells is less than it was last summer. And they're doing that. The staff has gotten less than it was last summer and we have more inmates. So this is why I say, I think that given all of the challenges that we face, we do a pretty good job at the 126 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 prison.
And you've put on the record a number of bullets, if you will, about this emergency preparedness big issue, which could be perceived as a new challenge. That has been registered with the Coordinating Commission and now you're at the step of coming up with a strategic plan to address that? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, we don't deal with the Coordinating Commission --
The coordinating -- this entity we've been talking about. COMMISSIONER KING: The emergency management office?
Yes, yes, yes. COMMISSIONER KING: The 127 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 emergency thing wouldn't be something we'd bring up with them. That's the Managing Director's Office, and we have brought that up and I said Ms. Maricopa is coming to see us to talk about the radios and the whole thing.
Let me just ask you, what is the process for you to receive information as to what's going on in the Prison System if there are -- with the union? I see in one of the letters addressed to me they complain about officers being sent home without proper paperwork done after an agreement had been made within 48 hours. How much of that do you know? Does that happen at a level below you? And if there are things that are going on that the staffing people feel that they're not getting a fair shake, how do they reach you? COMMISSIONER KING: Well, I won't say I know everything that goes on at the prison, because it's a big place, 128 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 but I know most of the things that go on. At some point, for example, you mentioned the issue with the paperwork and people getting suspended and the paperwork not getting ready. That is an issue that we address and, as far as I recall, we solved that issue. If it's a recurring issue, this is the first I'm hearing about it from you. Maybe I was copied on that letter, but I was on vacation. So I try to -- I usually get an update on what the union is complaining about. Phil Goldsmith gave me this BlackBerry that I sleep next to -- that's next to my head every morning. Before I step out of bed, I get up and see how many inmates are in RCF, how many inmates we have in the Prison System, and every time there's an issue, whether it's somebody had to use pepper spray or there's some incident of violence, I get my BlackBerry, and usually before the BlackBerry, Deputy Commissioner Brockenbrough calls me, because I get 129 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 upset when I hear it from the BlackBerry before I hear it from him. So I know a lot of the things that are going on in the facilities and what the issues are, and we try to address all of them. The officer said she'd like for me to come over and talk to them. I don't have a problem with that.
This letter was dated June 5th. COMMISSIONER KING: That was last week. I was on vacation. But if that's a recurring issue, I believe we were supposed to have resolved that. I would imagine it has to do with the two officers at RCF who refused to open up and they were suspended. It usually arises when someone does something so egregious they're immediately suspended and told to go home. We don't have enough time to instantaneously do the paperwork. That's what I'm guessing.
Thank you 130 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 very much for your testimony. COMMISSIONER KING: Thank you.
Mr. Donald Tomes, Debra Minnick and Charmaine Odrick. Good afternoon. Would you state your name for the record, please, and begin your testimony.
Pull the mike to you. Okay. Would you testify, please.
Yes. I'm usually the officer on G-2 at PICC. I started at PICC October --
It's a maximum prison. 131 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
I've been there since October, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. Now I think I'm a permanent officer on G-2 and I'm usually by myself with 100 inmates.
Male, yes. It's a pod where they have workers, Philacor, they have jazz. These are institutional programs. And they get up early in the morning. They like for them to be out of there by 11:30, have their meal and out. And it's constantly an ongoing thing, you know. We run the medications, sick hall, visits, medical calls, some come over for clinic trips. Previously I was scolded because I neglected to search a 132 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 gentleman, a couple of gentlemens. They got past me. I had somebody on the phone, like a visit. I'm looking for something to write it down, because during the course of the day, I might forget. And I had gotten a verbal -- a written warning, you know, not to let it happen again. But as I stated, I'm sorry, I just didn't have the time.
When you were trained, were you trained at the facility?
Did you ever visit the facility during the course of your training? 133 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
Yes. During the course of the training, they have you go to all of them. By the time I went, they were all women housed there back in '89.
So you're speaking to the fact that you have 100 women?
Usually like, okay, if I get a partner with me, maybe half an hour later they'll call them and put them somewhere else, you know, detail them somewhere else.
So when the men are let out of their cells, are they let out all 100 at the same time?
Oh, yes, and we have to let them out and immediately lock the cells back again.
And so you are in the midst of 100 inmates by yourself when they are out of their 134 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 cells?
When they're out of the cells, no. Usually when they're out of the cells, we have a partner.
A partner. When they're out of their cells, we have a partner. I have another person with me.
But when they are inside, you're there and they're in their cells and you ought to be responsive to their needs?
Yes, because, you know, we still have to run -- you still run church. If they have jumar, you still run jumar. Like I said, you have to get those visits out. Medical is constantly calling. Everybody is constantly calling. Like I said, I have a Philacor pod and I have gentlemen that have to go in. And then you turn around 11 o'clock, they're back again, and we have to search them, put them back, feed 135 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 them, all one person. They have a rover. They'll call a rover at the beginning of the shift, but they always, nine times out of ten, pull this rover. When they call medications, somebody from another unit usually have to step out of their area so you can do your medication. We don't have any walkies on the area at all. The consoles do not operate -- I've been there since October, like I said. I don't know how long they've been broken, but they do not operate.
Good afternoon, panel. My name is Officer Minnick. I'm one of the transfers that were transferred from PICC and I'm currently on the unit of G-1, which is a maximum security unit. I'm the female that I've worked since I've been over there. We have -- it's three units, and we have an 136 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 aux, which one officer is responsible to oversee all three units, and I'm -- majority of the time, I'm over there all alone with 100 inmates. I'm responsible for feeding, making sure they get out for medication, visits and all the -- everything that's run in sick hall. And my main concern is the doors that they have over there are very insecure. The inmates, they can pop out them doors at any given time, because we have seen them. The locksmith had came over there on several occasions, fix what he can fix and that's it. The panel never works since I've been over there. We do not have walkie -- I haven't seen a walkie on the unit. And during our lunch period, if the Sergeants can't find anyone to relieve us, we are responsible for relieving each other. That means that you are responsible for looking out for your unit and another unit, which to me is a very unsafe environment, because I 137 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 cannot maintain my tours on my unit, then maintain tours on another unit, because if something happened on another unit while I'm making a tour, I'm held accountable for it. And it's very unsecured, you know. If you do get a partner, like Ms. Odrick said, within a matter of minutes they're pulling them and then you have nothing. And it's real unsecure. As far as a female, you know, we have to search males, and a lot of these guys are very disrespectful towards you, which we understand because they're tired of being locked down, you know. And we have to -- they tell us we can run restrictive movement, which means you can allow two inmates out at a time to take showers and use the phone, which in the meantime you have these two inmates, you have all kinds of other stuff going on, visits, medication, you know, and that's more inmates out. We have addressed this issue 138 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 before, but since I've been over there, I haven't seen any changes, and it's really -- it's not really a safe place to be.
Yes. My name is Officer Donald P. Tomes. I'm a Union Delegate at PICC. And what the officers have told you is that it's too much work for one CO to handle 100 inmates constantly going places. They run the jail like it's fully open. Inmates must go to GED, church service, social workers, wherever. Groups are going out left and right. You're by yourself. You have to use a key. Okay? There's no 19 rovers in the areas. There's no one to respond to help you at all. This issue had been addressed to the administration that when you have so many units in restrictive movement, when you have lack of staff, how can you run all of the programs without the 139 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 officers feeling unsafe and the people feeling unsafe, the social workers feeling unsafe? And it's a very stressful -- it's so stressful that I go into center control and I ask the desk Sergeant, could you call some people in for overtime? He said, Mr. Tomes, I have and they don't want to come. Now, any time some of them don't want to come in to make overtime, they say no, you know it's a bad situation. It's really bad. Now, Mr. King have also -- Commissioner King also expressed that we need 250 officers. So can you imagine what we're going through? If we need 250 officers, can you imagine what we're going through, being placed alone all the time? There's no rovers. They make you do your own mouth checks. You have to search inmates constantly coming in and out of your housing area. And if you miss an inmate, you are sent home, what 140 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 happened at PICC about two weeks ago. Most of the officers got sent home because they didn't pat search, and a lot of them was alone by theirselves trying to run medication, trying to make things work. The jail cannot work when you're understaffed. You have to stop these programs. You have to think about the safety of the officers. Thank you.
Thank you all very much for your testimony. Mr. Katz, you want to come back? Be brief. I'm freezing in here. Would you all let Mr. Katz have a seat, please. Sit at the table, please.
Bernard N. Katz, attorney for Local 159. 141 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 When I responded to some questions a couple of hours ago, I did not know that there were figures that the union had already accumulated for what was necessary to properly staff the complement and what the cost would be. So rather than wait until tomorrow to get it to you, I would like to state it to you now. There is a basic necessity of hiring 500 more officers. The cost of that is as follows: The basic salary is 34,700, the allocation for fringe benefits and similar expenditures is 9,000, for a total of 43,700, which amounts to an annual expenditure of 21,500,000.
Now, this is 500 total inmates you need or additional inmates -- I mean correctional officers?
Five hundred additional correctional officers, and the cost would be as I have just indicated. 142 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711
I didn't want you to wait until tomorrow to get that information.
Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here to testify on this resolution? Yes. Identify yourself, please.
Lorenzo North, President of Local 159. I appreciate the time you gave to the hearings today. We have went to the administration on many occasions, because my officers are in danger. This summer will be a long summer, and for the last three summers, I think we was lucky. In 1996 was the last riot we had at the prison. That was at the Detention Center. It's no joke. It's not fun. Officers get hurt and inmates. This summer I will say this: 143 6/11/07 - PUBLIC HEALTH - RES. 060711 The next step may be the courts or some kind of action by the union, because I cannot allow my officers to be in danger no more. So we're asking City Council for some kind of help, and I appreciate all the help you can give, but if Commissioner King continues putting my officers in danger, there will be some kind of action by the union. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. This Committee will stand in recess until the call of the Chair. Thank you. (Committee on Public Health and Human Services adjourned at approximately 1:15 p.m.) 144 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 11, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)