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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - November 10, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Nov 10, 20205h 26m

And to have recollection over recollection over recollection, I mean, we have a clean transcript now.

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Her testimony is the record.

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I don't think there's a need to have her come back and again testify what her recollection was from a recollection from a recollection.

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understood but her name was mentioned i just thought if she was around that we we could

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if she was in the area we could have gotten her on but let's move on

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all right well i'll call uh i mean i would love that love to see i i think it's appropriate that

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mr toner's objective because i would agree i think i think mr holliman is the one who may

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have raised that as well so i don't know if tom if you need to speak to hear from paula again

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No, I don't need to hear from Paul again, but Mr. Chairman, my concern is if we can see the site plan that was approved by the Water Department, and also see the comments from the Water Department, what is the specification to exceed the 45 percent?

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What did the developer propose or the site planner propose for exceeding the 45%?

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That's it.

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So the answer is as follows.

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The Planning Commission approved, and I just emailed me, I just sent the final plan that you want to look at.

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It should come into my email in a moment, Mr. Holloman.

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I'll put it up for you.

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The Planning Commission approved our final 16-unit plan, as did the Water Department gave us preliminary approval, which is all that is required during a zoning process.

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And that's where we are.

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We have not fully moved to the building code process because we got a remand by the Commonwealth Court.

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Excuse me, Counselor.

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Yeah.

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Did you submit, I think it's required, to the water department, specifications on the material you're using for impervious pavers?

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David Plant would know the answer to that.

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I don't know the answer specifically to that question.

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I'm not the engineer.

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Mr. Hallman, Mr. Plante testified that he did not present specific materials with any specific spec sheets, but he's generally following recommendations to the Word Department.

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Can I clarify that?

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So how did you determine the additional percentage if you don't have the specification of the materials?

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If I can clarify that?

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this is so the the material specifications are on the plan

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i think mr toner asked me to recite those last time

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um and as i said there are specifications for the pavers there are specifications stated

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directly on the plan and i could read those to you right now um for the paving material

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on this plan read them to me on the final stormwater management plan which is the construction document

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i think what's happening if i may mr holliman just for a port of clarification you're getting

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into the building code i think aspect of this which is not yet we are stopped in our tracks

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because of the commonwealth court remand um this is the zoning aspect of it but if don't let me

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let me get ahead of david if david wants to add to that but that's what i think

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is happening right now by the way can you see the my screen with the plan yes that's the final plan

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for mr chairman if i could make one point what this is not a standard rear yard setback variance

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application this is not a normal zoning case they are seeking to apply these additional impervious

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coverage requirements once they seek this relief they can't rely upon conceptual and preliminary

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data without any specifications if they're seeking this additional impervious additional

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impervious coverage the burden is shipped to them to then present the actual detailed plans

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material specifications to substantiate compliance with these five elements absolutely incorrect

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We're at the zoning portion of this.

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And you're seeking relief under Section...

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That is absolutely wrong.

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The Planning Commission testified that their approval back in 2018 was to grant additional...

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That their approval back in 2018 was to grant additional storm impervious coverage under the section that Paula read into the code.

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That is all that we're talking about.

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He's trying to confuse you by distracting you by getting into highly technical data that is not necessary yet in this process.

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And it's not fair, it's wrong.

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I'm objecting.

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That is that is absolutely incorrect. That's why I would love to hear from Paula about this, because obviously the Planning Commission was fine with this and the Commonwealth Court was unaware that there was a possibility to add to approve additional impervious coverage under the zoning code.

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we heard in the testimony on tuesday that's that's why they approved it so end of story

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end of story that we did everything we were supposed to do with the water department and

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mr toner is distracting you with highly technical arguments that are not necessary

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in a zoning process i don't think the zoning code should distract anyone here and the zoning code

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pretty plain section 14 510 we got approval it is big state we were approved by the planning

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commission gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen please i'm sorry chair i hate to interrupt again but

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this is the 50 minute yep on this particular case and we still have others yep i i mentioned that a

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few minutes ago um who was uh who was last to speak uh i think it was mr demarco i have two

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more witnesses mr chairman if you don't want to hear from paul okay let's move with uh your

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witnesses please david brannigan please if you could promote him or make him a unmute him

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so whoever you are with me you would have to ask them to raise their hand so i can see them

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david uh david branigan please raise your hand

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good afternoon mr branigan please identify yourself with the record spell your first

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and last name and i'll swear you in good afternoon chairman david branigan d-a-v-i-d-b-r-a-n

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i g and where to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do

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i'll get i'll get right to the point i know you're you're you're strapped for time uh you're

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the developer in this matter mr brannigan and uh you have seen the drafts of the uh the illustrative

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plans by ritter by uh david plant would show what a plan would look like with strict compliance with

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45 percent impervious coverage requirement i've seen both oh let me bring them up on my screen

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or all three i've seen the plan and then i've seen you've seen both uh both versions right

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do you see my my screen mr brannigan or yes okay tell the board and you you've developed

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hundreds of residential units in the city of philadelphia right correct all right uh what is

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your opinion as a developer of the marketability of the units in the back that have no pedestrian

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or uh car access as far as being able to market construct market and sell these properties

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what is your opinion in my opinion they would not be marketable ridge avenue is a tough enough

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Ridge Avenue is tough enough without

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creating additional

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obstacles

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without access to those properties

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and Ridge Avenue

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is a highway

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you know

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you break up

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do you happen to have a different device on

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I do

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yeah shut one of them off please

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if you don't mind we're breaking up

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um bridge avenue was a tough enough case in the cell property on to begin with

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um this property was not developed over many many years um and to to to not have access to

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those properties my opinion would make those not marketable and uh what happens as far as

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the loss of the visitor parking what what what affects that well i think you answered the

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question. That's all I have of Mr. Brannigan, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Toner. Mr. Brannigan,

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did you rely on any written studies in determining the market analysis you just testified to?

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The studies I've relied on are my own personal experience in buying and selling real estate.

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But you didn't look at actual recent sales within a mile?

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But you didn't look at actual recent sales within a mile.

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I always look at recent sales.

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Let me ask the question.

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Mr. Brannigan, you're familiar with this neighborhood?

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Yes.

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Have you sold or marketed any homes in this neighborhood in the past?

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Yes, many, many homes, yes.

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Okay.

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We'll stipulate that Mr. Brannigan is familiar with the development in this community.

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And I also rely on my real estate experts when I need out.

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Understood.

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Thank you.

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Mr. Brannigan, of all the houses you've sold, you've sold houses and built houses without dedicated all-street parking, haven't you?

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I've not built any houses without dedicated parking.

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Never?

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We're losing you.

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I've not done new construction without dedicated parking.

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And how much of a reduction in fair market value have you determined would be realized by not having a dedicated all-street parking space?

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those those houses in the back i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't build those without the

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parking you're breaking up again sir does someone else

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mr bragan this is going to be developed as a homeowners association right

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it's going to have

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to have an association. Yeah and the two surface parking spots that are located next to the green

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area in this alternate plan, those could easily be assigned to two of the units, correct?

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This is a hypothetical plan. This isn't a plan that I would move forward with. This is a

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hypothetical plan to show what the coverage would be based on getting under the requirement. I

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thought that that was my understanding correctly if i'm wrong we were looking at the amount of

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homes is already decided by the court in pennsylvania what we're what we're just hiding

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now is the amount coverage or clarifying what amount was approved by the planning commission

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am i incorrect on that objection it's a legal conclusion mr brannigan i understand you just

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testify to reviewing plans have you seen the secret plan that was referenced in this case

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i've relied on my professionals for that i have no further questions thank you all right i would

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call uh jamie firetag if i could add one thing rich before i could yeah go ahead all right so

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i have a copy of the there there is an award department approval that needs to be sent in

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And along, just so the board knows, along with that, there is a stipulation that this agreement, this agreement will connect to the land.

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Mr. Brannigan, Mr. Brannigan, again, you're fading out.

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You can break it up on us.

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Rating and maintenance agreement that will be signed and recorded on the deed.

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Mr. Brannigan, unfortunately, we're losing your, we're not able to hear.

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Rich, do you happen to know what he was showing us?

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He's talking about that there's an agreement that when I misspoke, I got a little ahead of myself when I responded to Tom Holloman.

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We are getting final approval from the Water Department, but we are still within that process.

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We're not fully approved.

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But again, I want to clarify, because there's been a lot of distraction at this hearing.

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That is not part of the zoning process.

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That's part of the building process.

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We started to build before we got remanded by the Commonwealth Court.

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Thank you.

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So we have, we're on the way to getting final Water Department approval to actually build the homes.

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But the Commonwealth Court wanted us to get back to the zoning aspect of this.

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And then are you familiar with market data and the Roxborough area as far as real estate market?

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Yes, I am. I've lived in Manioc and Roxborough since 2005, and I primarily specialize in this market area and do over 80 transactions a year in the area.

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Okay, perfect. And have you seen the two plans that show strict compliance with impervious coverage requirements that we've been talking about?

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I have.

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Okay.

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And I have one on my screen.

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I'm going to go to the other one, which is the even more stringent plan.

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Can you see the screen, by the way?

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I'm just seeing you right now.

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I don't see the screen right the second.

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Oh, okay.

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The screen was up before it switched to you.

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Sorry, hold on.

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How about now? I see. I see a computer screen and the plan. Yeah, the plan's up now.

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OK, good. Tell the board, in your opinion, as a realtor with the experience that you've described, how marketable are these units in the rear here, which lack both pedestrian and car access?

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It would be very unmarketable and I would not be able to sell them.

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Ridge Avenue is a very, very busy street.

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And what you have to understand about the neighborhood in that area is most of those houses, I know you said before that some houses don't have parking in front of them and they have to walk.

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But this is more of like a suburb feeling neighborhood behind there on Valley Avenue.

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Those are all twins and they all have driveways and they have garages.

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And then on Wiggert on the corner, most of them are single family and they have a garage or driveway.

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and then across the street on Flamingo and all those new construction,

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most of them, I would say 95% of the houses have a driveway or a garage.

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So for a new person to buy a house, to have to walk from Ridge Avenue all the way back,

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especially if they have kids or whatever, it's going to be very hard to sell.

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And I also wanted to mention that Mr. Toner mentioned 246 Fountain Street and 248 Fountain Street,

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and they do have one dated parking spot.

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They do not show on the MLS, and I personally did call Stephanie Whitlock,

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who is the listing agent and also part owner of the houses and she did confirm what is the i have

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a question what's the distance from uh to out from these out from these houses out to ridge avenue

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so i know the footage over this is the this is greater than the length of a football field

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mr chairman it's more than 100 yards yes it's 360 feet i believe but i would

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okay that's close enough thank you yeah so how about how about just last question for jamie

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uh how about have you ever had an instance where you lack where you have to market a home that has

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no pedestrian access i have never heard of that before that's all i have thank you mr chairman

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for your time thank you mr toner very briefly um

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ms freitag every one of these units will be accessed via a driveway isn't that correct

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or a driveway um i believe so if it goes with what was what mr bryanigan was planning on doing

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yes i'm very confused by your testimony that these units will front onto ridge avenue

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In fact, all the parking is going to be accessed by a private driveway.

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So none of these units will actually have parking that's accessed via Ridge Avenue exclusively.

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Isn't that right?

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I'm confused by that question.

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Objection.

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Let's see.

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Maybe she understands it.

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Let's see.

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I don't understand.

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But what I can say is from other developments that have been there, you have guests that come over and where are they going to park?

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and what if they take a spot and then someone can't get into their own personal spot if there

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is one that's designated i mean it's very far back and i don't see how you're going to sell

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