Councilman Nutter said that any information you provide would be helpful.
Because otherwise, we work in a vacuum. We never get the results of the action that we take.
And then I think it will be very comforting to the people who are involved in new situations to understand whether the part of successful ongoing program or whether this is just talk by a City Administration. If the City Administration deserves credit for achieving wholesale betterment, we ought to know about it. If it doesn't, we ought to also know about.
Councilman, I agree. I think the one thing that we don't do as well as we 117 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES need to do is talk about the successes. And there are literally thousands of units have been built as a result of this.
Well, I think that would be very heartening and people could test to find if that's true or not.
Could you add in there how many market rate houses have been built as a result of that?
Market rate is a new initiative, so -- but there have been some market rate, but that was in the older urban renewal days, if you recall.
Those are the older urban renewal areas. I think the new initiative -- they go back too far to have any relevance to today.
Mr. Wetzel, may I ask you also at the same time, since the market rate question has come up, could you tell us when there was instituted the rules that permit different rates 118 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES to be paid labor for residential and for commercial, and do they apply in the City of Philadelphia? We understand that in suburban areas that building is more effective at market rate levels than it is in the City because simply in the City as soon as something is built, it's worth about that half that amount on the market. Whereas, in suburban areas because of, among other things, lower labor costs, sometimes lower technical requirements, whatever the purposes, there's only one rate that applies. And it does seem to be possible to build market rate housing in the suburbs but not in the City. I think all the citizens of the Philadelphia would benefit if the same were possible here in the City, and we ought to be taking advantage of the fact that a City built to house 2 million and a half people now houses only a million and a half, so we ought to be able to give each home the kind of room 20 that maybe the suburbs get. So if you could get us that information in addition. But don't wait, you give us the first part; that will be easier. If you collect the second piece of information, we would very much like to have it. 119 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Thank you very much. Mr. Redding you testified on this Bill, didn't you? MR. REDDING, yes, I did.
Anyone else to testify on this Bill? Could you please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Aiesha Bey, and I am the homeowner of 820 North 47th Street. Downstairs, they sent us to the second floor. They didn't give us a full understanding of what was going on. Everybody is talking. The lady wasn't even talking on the microphone. She's talking; you can't even hear her. I don't know what's going on. I wasn't aware of an April meeting. This is the first time I received a notice. I need to know what's going on. My address is on this list here. The block that I live on is -- I'm the only person on the block. Across the street is an abandon lot and next door to be is an abandoned lot which I was trying to apply for for four years. I'm in the last stage of applying the 120 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES deed from the property, and they put it on hold and tell me, you gotta go see Jannie Blackwell. And they tell me they're trying to acquire my property. I need to know what's going on because I've been cleaning this block for eight years and cutting the grass for four years, I need to know what's going on here.
Yes. I will have my staff member, Alisa Snead, come upstairs and speak with you, certainly, in the back of the room. Mr. Chairman, I'm happy to do that and have her talk with them now.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Sir, could you please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Ms. Blackwell, officers, and my fellow citizens. My name James Renwick. I'm a property owner, investor. I own and rent out houses and apartments in the community. My concern is that a lot of the 121 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES neighbors or the community members have no idea of what's going on. For my tenants, I would like to be able to come back and convey information to them about what's going on with this. We'd like to know so that there can be some type of rest as to what's going on. I have been told that some of the notices that were sent out were actually erroneous and that, in fact, these houses aren't going to be slated for acquisition by the City, but it's kind of more so in a random state, or that it's a targeted area but all of the properties won't be slated for demolition or whatever the City plans to do. I'd like to know if some information could be given to us today, some literature, some things that we could take back that are formative and would set some of the community at rest as to what's going on.
Yes. Again, we're happy to. Ms. Snead is on her way up, and she'll speak with you. We have other members of the NTI team who will be able to review your case and the other case individually. 122 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Now, we spoke to them downstairs and they had informed us that there was some literature here. There was literature for some of the other areas, but nothing that targeted the Mill Creek area. Most of the people that came up for information on the Mill Creek area have not received any information at all.
Yes. I understand that downstairs we had everybody across the City who was involved in a meeting in Conversation Hall, so I'm sure you didn't get that much specific information. But we'll do our best to talk with you. Both of you, this Alisa Snead, and she can step to the side and she'll be glad to talk to you. Or outside maybe since our hearing is still going on and we'll see what can happen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, everyone. My name Carolyn Thomas, and I live in the 4500 block of Hoop Street. I received two letters; one that you were going to have this hearing today, and the 123 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES other one was to go to a meeting on Thursday and Saturday. My question to you is that they kept telling us, if you qualify that they will give you referral money to be moved. When we asked me what were qualifications, they could not tell us. We want to know what it is that you're offering us to move out of our homes, which we are elderly. I am a personally a person that has done my house over last year to get ready to retire this year. My home is paid for. I don't any taxes. I don't owe any water bills. What are the qualifications for people like us who own our homes that have been living 50 years?
Let me just sort of step through. It will just take a couple of minutes. If a person's property that they own and occupy is taken by eminent domain, the redevelopment is required to follow the Federal Uniform Relocation Act. Sort of the following or basic elements of that. One is we must pay fair market value for the property that we're acquiring. That's a result of an appraisal, but also the owner can contest our appraisal. If they think our appraisal too low, 124 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES they can a Board of View appointed, get an appraisal and argue that their property is worth more than our appraiser said. The key factor here, though, is they're entitled to a replacement house. In other words, the federal statute does not allow you to just pay somebody for their house and say, "See you later. That's your problem." We have an affirmative obligation under the federal statutes to work with these individuals to find a replacement house. If hypothetically -- and please just understand it's hypothetically -- that if somebody's house were appraised for $20,000 and we can find a replacement house, a similar type house on a good block that's selling for 45,000, hypothetically again, we have an obligation to not only pay them the $20,000 for the house they live in now, we also have to give them a replacement payment of $25,000, the difference between a decent safe and sanitary replacement house and the house we're taking from them. Further, we're obligated to pay all their moving expenses associated with moving to the new property. We're obligated any pay any utility 125 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES re-connect costs. If the phone company charges, if the cable company charges, we have to pay those costs. And we have to pay all closing costs associated with the purchase of the replacement house; transfer tax, title and recording fees. We have to pay all those costs so that the owner doesn't bear any of the burden of the move.
How does this individual citizen know whether or not she's in fact slated for that particular action and whether she qualifies for what was just explained?
Every condemnee who is the owner of the property qualifies. There is no income qualifications for relocation benefits. You could make a hundred thousand a year and if your property was condemned, you're still entitled to relocation benefits. So there's no income test for relocation benefits. And further, her property is on the list, am I correct on that?
I think I looked at the list here. What happens -- and the process would 126 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES be, if this ordinance is passed and if the Mayor signed the ordinance, the next step is the Redevelopment Authority orders appraisals and title reports. We would send a letter to the owners of the property saying, "You're going to be contacted by an appraiser." Especially if you've fixed it up, you should let that appraiser see the improvements you've made to the property to get the maximum value out of your property. We would also then, having the appraisal in, after we get the appraisal we would send an offer letter saying, "This is how much the property is appraised for." And then the owner can decide whether they want to accept that offer or they want to challenge that offer. Even during that period, though, we could be working -- some people have expressed a desire to move already. We can begin the work with individuals in the process of finding replacement houses earlier on in the process, but not until we have the appraisal so we know how much they're going to get for their property.
Is there any element in the award given to the homeowner whose home is 127 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES taken where an element akin to what in law is pain and suffering? Taking a normal accident case where a person heals completely but the person receives compensation -- (Applause.)
Receives compensation for the emotional conflicts engendered by all the discomfort caused by the accident. It seems to me that the loss of a home to which you've become attached where you know what steps to watch before you take them, you know, instead of having to learn all over where you're going to trip and fall on the floor -- (Applause.)
It seems to me that the law is very faulty if it doesn't provide for an element of compensation for that. Because you're playing with people's lives and giving them absolutely nothing in return. (Applause.)
I mean, how can you say you have a right to disrupt people's lives entirely where they lived for many years in one 128 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES house and all you're going to do -- and you think we ought to be compensated and complimented for doing that. We may pay you what you're going to have to pay out to get a different house that you didn't want. You were very happy in your old house. (Applause.)
Is there such a figure, Mr. Wetzel? If not, I think we're going to want to take some kind of action to inform on congressional representatives that we find this federal law faulty. (Applause.)
Councilman, the answer to your question is that the federal statute does not include that.
Well, are we bound by that federal statute? Why don't City of Philadelphia adopt a policy in fairness to its people, its going to see to it that this kind of damage is going to be taken care of? And then we'll see how fast the City moves if it costs the City money. (Applause.) 129 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Isn't this really a one-sided transaction in which the City loses nothing? I don't blame you personally, Mr. Wetzel. You're carrying out a program. But you do carry part of the burden because you're the one doing it. That's why you're getting the complaints. You're playing with people's lives as if it doesn't mean anything.
Let me just say this. I think that if that is an issue, I think Council's attorneys or the City attorneys ought to look into the Uniform Relocation Act and make some decision when change that or whether or not anything passed by the City could supersede the federal regulations. I don't know the answer to that. I think you posing very valid questions that ought to be looked into.
I think it's an emergency action and I'm going to be presenting some thoughts to City Council on that subject. (Applause.)
We take care of campaign contributors; we ought to take care of the people in City of Philadelphia. 130 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES (Applause.)
It's a shame Councilman Cohen slowed down. It's terrible. (Laughter.)
I do understand, Councilman, you promised 33 more years yesterday. I thought you said that.
I'll accept that. It's up to the good Lord to file his acceptance.
My other part of the question. Now hypothetically he's saying that he's going to offer you 20,000 for your home. And say you bought a home for 45,000, so the other 25,000 is going to be left to you?
No, that's not correct. He testified that they will make up the difference in the replacement house.
Because I'm saying people on a fixed income could not afford maybe to pay the other part of the mortgage. 131 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
In that hypothetical example, you'd get 20,000 for your house. And if the comparable unit is 45,000, you would also get 25,000 as a replacement housing payment. The one thing, Councilman, they did have some wisdom in terms of the Uniform Act; that is not taxable income to the individual. In other words, it's a tax-free payment to you. And in addition, we have to pay your moving expenses and we have to pay for the closing costs. You know, title reports and things like that.
But my other question to you, after you do all of this, do we own the homes after that?
Now, we have moved into this house and we decided that didn't like it after a couple years. Now, after I moved in there and been there a couple years and I decided I didn't like it, because you put this other $25,000 in, do I have to return and pay you this money when I sell my house to move into another place?
No. The replacement housing payment under the Federal Act is a grant to 132 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES you. It's not recoverable. It's not a mortgage on the property. You could even take, for example, if you wanted a $50,000 or a $60,000 house, you could take that 45,000 and put it down on another house. You could buy the house for 45 and six months later sell it, move into an apartment. This is your money. What you get for your house and replacement housing payment is your money, but you have to use it to buy a house.
When you redevelop this area, as we were told that we could come back to this area if we were eligible. What is the eligibility after you build homes that we can return back to this property and have a choice of moving back into the area?
This is a PHA project. I think we should have them talk about the project and any preferences.
Part of the problem -- before I recognize Councilman Cohen -- we've had this discussion in past hearings. There's not enough educational information for people who are involved in this project. There's not enough -- I mean, this lady should have those questions or those 133 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES issues in a pamphlet on a piece of paper to read. I'm going to give her all the time she wants, but we're going through a hearing now where we're going to finalize this approval and there are questions out there that just aren't answered and people just don't understand -- if all this work was done prior, this room would be empty. (Applause.)
What do you suggest we do? I don't want to stop the proceeding or limit it because she has questions, she has questions, she has questions. How do we get these questions answered? This is not the forum to be doing it.
Well, the doors was shut on us Saturday. We couldn't ask any more questions because they wouldn't show up.
You're not at fault at all. I'm just saying that this is a process that we've been going through for three years, and people still don't understand it. Councilman Cohen.
Yes. And does the City's guarantees include that the taxes will be the same as they were, or do her taxes go up when she 134 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES occupies a replacement home of $45,000 which is no 3 better to her than her original home of $20,000. In fact, it's not nearly as good. But will her taxes remain at that old $20,000 valuation or do they go up? And if so, who pays that? (Applause.)
Councilman, I don't know how all the evaluation and reevaluation of properties take place in this City. But in a normal environment, yes, the taxes on a $45,000 house will be higher than on a $20,000 house.
Not the City, the City's not going to make up for that?
Well, that means that most people's taxes under the example you gave might be doubled or tripled in the City of Philadelphia. I think these are elements of what the Chair indicated. If this were all dealt with originally, we would overcome it. I think it would be many less takings by the City and the City would 135 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES become a better place to live in because it would be showing respect for people. (Applause.)
We've got to figure out a way to have this witness sit with someone in a side room from RDA or for the District Councilperson's office just to try to figure out -- we can't do it here. The record is just too burdensome.
Another question. When they go to take people's homes that they have their livelihoods in, shouldn't they have this information ready for us when we come to ask them questions so we would know what to do?
Why would they come with a part of a program to take something and no one can answer our questions. That's why we're upset and that's why we're up in uproar. But they don't think that should be, and they call the cops on us. And I don't think that's right.
Ma'am, I've had the same question. I voted against this originally for the same reasons. 136 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
I mean, they called the cops on us the other night. I felt like a criminal because I was trying to protect my own home.
I'm as confused as you are. I would like Mr. Wetzel to please have someone sit with these individuals that are coming forward with these questions so they can be specifically answered.
We had a lady yesterday the same way. She got a letter and then was told that her house was in the process or in the list to be condemned and that she ought to come to a meeting to talk about relocation. There was no sort of process, no questions, no community involvement in establishment the rules and regulations as to how this was going to take place. This process yesterday, I said it stinks. It still stinks. (Applause.)
They haven't been able to answer our questions. And I don't know 137 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES whether they can answer the questions of the people. They really haven't been able to answer clear questions as to what happens once they have the property and they demolish it.
My name is Yin Tang (ph). I'm here behalf of my father-in-law who owned the property at 601 North Street. That property is 11 zoned as commercial. 12
That's not part of this Bill. That's a Bill that's coming up. It sounds like Councilman Clarke's district. I'll try to get your attention when that Bill comes up. Is there anyone else to testify on the Mill Creek area? Please identify yourself for the record.
I'm Minister Matthew Rowan (ph). I live at 4518 West Ogden Street, Philadelphia alley. My question is, what would 138 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES happen to the people who have been in that neighborhood for so long, putting up with the hell, cutting lots, cleaning, calling the cop, keeping the bad influence out of the neighborhood, who cannot afford a mortgage, who cannot afford to -- if you give me $40,000, they're not going to be able to purchase a home. What are they going to do, these people who have put so much into their homes, have developed their own homes, made things better? And now you're coming in and taking the property, giving us a little portion of money. I think you would solve a lot of problems if we just swap out. No 14 mortgage, give us the property, give us the same address, and a lot of people would be satisfied with that. But just come and give us a little bit of money and then leave us high and strung and then others come who can afford to move in those houses -- because the houses are going to be 90, maybe a hundred thousand dollars, and we're not going to be able to afford that. Most of the people who are either handicapped -- I have neighbors who are handicapped will just be completely devastated by something like this. What are provisions for these people? 139 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
I'm chairing the hearing. I don't have answers to those questions. I commiserate with you and I understand your question. I don't have the answers. The answers are either from Mr. Wetzel or on the second floor that's second floor, meaning the Mayor's Office. I don't know what the answers are. We've been asking those same questions, and we have not received the answers either. Others members of the committee will confirm that. I don't have an answer for you.
It seems to me if you desire for me to move and leave my home where I've lived for many years and enjoyed it. I really like where I live. I like my neighbors. I like my friends. If you're asking me to give that up, it seems to me it should be no strain on me. Put me in a place, make sure I don't have to pay no rent. Make sure when the houses are developed and finished that I get my same address, that I'm able to enjoy that property without having to have a debt over my head. Because we put up with so much in my neighborhoods, it seems like we would be rewarded for trying to hold out. That's what it seems like to me. (Applause.) 140 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
The Redevelopment Authority is acquiring this land on behalf of PHA's Mill Creek Hope 6. I think folks ought to be talking to PHA with regards to what opportunities would be available for people to come back to the project site.
Let me go back to the original problem of this hearing. This hearing is turning into a informational session for residents who have received letters for condemnation and acquisition. This is not the purpose of this hearing. You can't conduct this hearing that way. You need the informational sessions and the explanation prior to we get to this point. (Applause.)
I'm at loss because I don't know how to answer this man's question. I don't know what to tell him.
Councilman, this is a PHA project. And they need to be able to sit down with the individuals -- they are here. The individuals who have questions about what is the project, 141 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES there's rental units, there's home ownership, what will be the opportunities for individuals who are displaced for this project to come back to the project site.
This is a PHA project. You come here to ask this body to approve a PHA project, a project that obviously PHA has not communicated with the community, has not informed them of any processes. And this is the same PHA Mr. Carl Greene who refuses to come to this Council to explain himself. (Applause.)
Let me tell you something. If I have something to do with this, this will not go through until Mr. Greene comes here and explains this process to the people of this community. (Applause.)
It seems that much of NTI, Neighborhood Transformation, seems to be involved with PHA, not City government, not 142 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES operational dollars here. And if PHA and the citizens of Philadelphia are going to be affected by actions taken by PHA, then PHA has to be answerable to the Council of the City of Philadelphia, and they have to come here. And I would like to see Carl Greene and all of those individuals come marching into this building and this table to testify on this. So you tell him. You tell him. (Applause.)
He wants to know what we do in City Council. This is what we do in City Council.
I apologize for the inconvenience of this room. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Cardell Blue from the Philadelphia Housing Authority.
If you've been following the discussion, if you could attempt to illuminate these individuals and us as to what is going on relative to this particular Bill with some of the issues that the Reverend has raised.
Yes. This Bill has already been discussed. There's an acquisition of 143 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES properties that is being done by the Redevelopment Authority on behalf of the Philadelphia Housing Authority. And the purpose is to implement of Hope Revitalization Project that was approved by HUD 6 which a $10.5 million grant was provided to the City through PHA the acquisition of properties that are being done are as a result of the Hope 6 planning process. Now, one of the questions that came into the meeting was whether or not the community participated or had notification of the grant and of the planning process. And that planning process, as required by the federal regulations, did take place. Now, one of the things I have here and I'll be glad to provide it for the Committee, but there were at least 15 meetings held regarding the design workshop, also including the implosion, also including CSS and relocation, also including disposition of off-site homeownership and Hope 6 planning. These meetings that took place beginning 5/8/01 and went through 6/4/03, including several meetings that took place after that through a Hope 6 Task Force. Now, these meetings -- the notifications happened in different manners. In 144 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES some cases, notification was in the Inquirer and Daily News. In other cases, there were flyers in the community. In other cases, they were direct mail. And in many cases, meetings were very well attended; in other cases, they were not attended. But we carried out a very extensive notification and planning process. The City Planning Commission is also informed of our particular plan, and we have a requirement for that citizen participation as required by the federal government. And we, of course, have worked with several members of the Mill Creek community through a Hope 6 Task Force that has been convened and will continue to meet throughout the process of the construction of this project. So the question as to whether or not there's been an appropriate notification to residents and appropriate planning process, I'm sure there can always be more, but I think in this instance that that has been done consistent with the requirements of the law and regulations as required by HUD and also as required by policy of the Philadelphia Housing Authority in terms of informing communities when we do housing. 145 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Would you be willing to set up an additional meeting with the individuals that are here that have expressed some concern about specific questions relative to replacement housing, whether or not they'll be able to return to the original site of their property that was acquired, those kinds of questions that we really can't go into at length here? But could we maybe get a list of people that the staff of PHA will be willing to sit with and answer those questions?
Mr. Chairman, we would be most happy to do that in a cooperative manner, and we would do it for as long and as often as necessary. We understand this can be a trying process, but the idea is to improve the quality of life of the residents and also to let them know exactly what is going on, and we will be pleased to do that.
Reverend, would you be willing to get some names? I don't know how to -- through the District Councilmember's office to try to figure out a way to set it up so people understand it and -- Councilwoman Blackwell.
Certainly. We 146 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES are happy to work with Mr. Cardell Blue and all who would like further information. We're happy to do that. Ms. Snead is still outside, my staff member. Anybody who would like a follow-up meeting, if you would give her name and phone number, we'll make sure we're in touch with you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon. My name is Audrey S. Hickman and I live at 825 North Lake Street. What PHA have not told you, they're going to take my house. What they're going to put in my house space is grass. Does that make any sense to you, to take a homeowner -- my taxes are paid up, I have no lien against my house, I'm a widow. You're going to take my house to put grass, when all the other vacant lots in the City you can plant grass on. There are only a few houses on the block, but to come in and take a widow's home to plant grass, I think that is ridiculous. And then you ask us to pay our taxes to make sure that we are correct citizens in the City of Philadelphia. This is supposed to be a City of Brotherly Love. This is 147 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES not a City of Brotherly Love; this is a City of Sister Hate, when you come in and taking somebody house. Thank you so much for letting me speak.
Mr. Chairman, again, as Councilwoman Blackwell has already offered, when that meeting process is there, we certainly invite this resident to come to that meeting and we will by all means provide information and discuss the specific situation. I'm unable to respond to that specific lot or specific house or the green space or anything at this time, but we will be glad to go through the specifics with any resident, as we have throughout this whole process.
Excuse me. He said can't go that specific -- tell him to look on his blueprint and you can see Lake Street on the north side, grass; on the south side they want to put a parking lot. Now, if you got that already on blueprint, tell me how can't you go through the specifics when I ask you a question. (Applause.)
We asked Mr. Blue that 148 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES same question on Thursday night. He called the police on us. There was no meeting on Saturday, and yet you come in and say to us that they're put us in another house. On Thursday night they said if they relocate you, you can live in a house for years 7 and if your money didn't match up to what the house 8 cost, when you move after 10 years you had to pay 9 the tax and the money that you owed on that house. 10 That is not giving us a break. If I live in a house 10 years and the interest rate is 15 percent, what would it be in 10 years time? I can't afford it. No one else can afford it. But yet they are saying they are making our quality of life better. It's not getting better, it's getting worse. Only the rich can afford. We poor folks are going to stay poor and they think they can do anything that they want with us. But I say to you today as Councilmembers, when you got elected, you came in the community. You asked for our votes. You said that you would do certain things for us. But today you are not doing it. If you pass Ordinance, I don't know what the City going to become to, because if you do it in my neighborhood today, tomorrow it might be yours. I wonder how you'll feel about 149 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES that. (Applause.)
Mr. Chairman, ever since yesterday and the hearings that were begun yesterday in terms of this NTI Program and now this, it seems like we have a flawed process. It seems like we make a plan -- or these individuals make a plan because the plan is not made by City Council. These individuals make a plan and they forget that there are human beings involved in all of these areas. I don't know who they talk to in these areas, because obviously they haven't talked to the people who own the homes. (Applause.)
And unless you talk to the people who own the homes, you ain't talked to nobody. (Applause.)
And we have an institution again -- and I know Cordial for years. But we have an institution that PHA, Housing Authority, that refuses to recognize this body's 150 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES jurisdiction and that this body has any say over any other actions and that they do not have to answer to this body about anything. And I believe that at this point in time, we have a great opportunity here to set a process that gives the citizens, not the bureaucrats, but gives the citizens the voice, that gives the citizens the voice as to how their communities are going to be shaped and planned. (Applause.)
And I think, as you stated before, this is a informational gathering. Because let me tell you something. This ain't gonna go through this Council like this. (Applause.)
I haven't conceded the election yet and I'm still a Councilman until January 1st. (Applause.)
But I can tell you, IT ain't going through like this. It ain't going through. You tell that to Mr. Greene. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. Is there anything you'd like to add? 151 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Yes, there is. Not to have a bone of contention, but I think it's only fair that the record be clear that I did not call the police on you, ma'am. Number 2, our agency was a guest at the meeting she's referring to. And what I can say unabashedly is there was attempt even at that meeting, even though that was not the only meeting where we came to discuss the plan and what was going to happen, but the Redevelopment Authority held the to discuss relocation benefits and to discuss the acquisition of properties. But many of the residents who were there carried on so terribly that they couldn't get all their information in and they had to take people to another part of the school to go through the process. And yet we still stayed there and tried to carry on and provide information, but there were hot feelings. I understand why there would be. But I think just it's important that the truth come out because twice tonight that accusation has been. I think it's important that we keep the record clear. At the same time, I'm still prepared to meet on behalf of the agency to carry out this 152 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES process, as requested.
Well, Mr. Blue, I apologize if you didn't call the police, but you were just as wrong as the rest of us because you took the mike and wouldn't let nobody else speak. You said you had the mike and you had the floor and nobody could speak. You went in another part of the building to listen to Ms. Dunbar and we couldn't hear her because you was on the Mike so loud. Now, if you want to say that we as residents did not know how to act, then you as a management did not know how to act yourself. (Applause.)
Mr. Blue, I had not plan to be too actively involved in some of these proceedings; I've just been trying to listen and take in. I did want to get a better explanation, though, you used the phrase that at a particular meeting you referenced that the attendees -- I think 153 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES in your words, "acted up so bad." What exactly does that mean? What happened?
The purpose of this meeting was to talk about relocation.
So the context of the meeting is people are coming there to respond either to a flyer or a notice or something having to do with the taking of their properties and their relocation; is that the context of this meeting?
I would like to bring this out. And if I used the words "acted badly," I wish to apologize for the use of that word, because I think the feelings of the residents who were there was appropriate when you have that kind of situation in terms of acquisition of properties. I mean, being involved in this business for over some 20 years, I've gone through several condemnation, having been at all four housing agencies so know whereof I speak. But I do want to say I clearly understand what the feelings were. And we were 154 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES dealing with that. Unfortunately, the meeting deteriorated when you had certain individuals who were there who were speaking inciting residents in terms of people who really were already feeling bad about the process, and understandable that they were. But by the same token, it became a point where neither party was hearing the other because the dialog that was going on. But the purpose of that meeting was actually a letter that had been sent out from the Redevelopment Authority to the residents who were impacted by condemnation. The purpose was to bring the residents to that meeting and to answer all the questions that are being asked about this evening. Unfortunately, there was a political official who got up there and began to say the things I think where people felt someone was there championing their cause, and I understand that as well. And unfortunately --
One day I might want to champion a cause or something. 155 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
But I point I want to make is after people got there, the purpose of PHA's presence there was to go over the plan once again to talk about, not only are your properties being taken, but here's the reason that the properties are being taken and to begin to answer some of the questions that could be answered based on the developers in this particular situation, but also to use that meeting to talk about acquisition of the properties and relocation benefits and to inform the people who were being affected by the condemnation. That was the whole purposes of that particular meeting. And then there was another one to be scheduled that following Saturday.
Given where we are today, it sounds like maybe all the message didn't get across?
I wasn't there. I'm not making any judgment. I'm just saying that 156 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES you've gone through a whole lot of process and had a number of meetings, and it appears that there are still a fair amount of questions and concerns that people have. I mean, this is pretty serious stuff here. And, look, there's always two sides to every story. I mean relocation, unless requested, generally is not necessarily the smoothest process in the world. Sometimes you have to try to work things out. But, I mean, you know, this is America. And people do have a right to express themselves and say what it is that they want to say. Now, it generally shouldn't be unreasonable and you have to listen and one person talk and a time, and you go through all of that, all the niceties of that. But when you start talking about taking somebody's property, I mean, you leave out in the morning, you come home that day, there's a flyer, there's a piece of mail or whatever. Ot might be a little shocking. And you're going to get some reaction. So I guess all I'm really suggesting -- I wanted to understand what the "acting up" meant and what the context of the meeting was. And I think, as the Chair has indicated and District 157 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES Councilwoman Blackwell, it sounds like some more work needs to be done.
We are prepared to have as many meetings as are necessary. I think the issues, though, is for a situation like what we're discussing now, I don't think you'll ever find a person whose property is being taken that they will ever be satisfied. So if your expectation is that they're going come to this hearing and be totally satisfied, that won't happen.
Some situations, you know, people might be rather enthusiastic about it, depending on what's going on, depending on what the offer is, depending on what the neighborhood is like. I mean, you know, there are some circumstances and situations where people are, I think, almost grateful that a changed situation may come along. That's a matter of discussion and laying out the pros and the cons. And, yes, you're right in your 20 years of experience, every now and then you do have to make the tough hard decisions that may upset people. Often times it ends up being more about process than anything else and how people felt about it and were they respected, and were they 158 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES listened to, and do they understand what's really going on here and what the path is for them to at least replicate or maintain what they had before they got the notice in the mail. That's all I'm saying.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else to testify on this Bill? (No response.)
We'll now move to Bill No. 030297, which is an Ordinance approving the 11th amendment of the redevelopment proposal for the Mantua Urban Renewal Area, being the area beginning at the intersection of 40th Street and Spring Garden Street, including the eighth amendment to the urban renewal plan and the relocation plan, as amended, which provides, inter alia, for the additional land acquisition of approximately 151 properties for residential and related uses; the provision of certain relocation services, as required by law and declaring that condemnation is not imminent with respect to the Project. 159 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES Councilmember Nutter.
Ladies and gentlemen, you've heard from many of the Council that we believe that everyone should have an opportunity to speak. And we do absolutely believe in that process. Unfortunately, this is not the choir and we all cannot speak or sing at the same time. So we're in a very tight situation here in this room. The Chairman has tremendous amount of patience and time, and everyone will be heard. It is exceedingly difficult for us to hear up here when the noise level rises above a certain amount. So all I can ask as a Committee member is -- I'm not trying to say don't talk. Please let us conduct the hearing. We want to do it with dignity and respect to you. But we need to be able to hear what's going on so that we can best serve you. That's all I'm asking as a member of the Committee. Thank you.
My name is Herbert Wetzel, Executive Director of the Redevelopment Authority of the City of Philadelphia. Mr. Chairperson and Members of the 160 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES Committee, I'm here to speak in support of Bill No. 3 030297. This is in the Mantua neighborhood of West Philadelphia. The 11th amended redevelopment proposal and the 8th amended urban renewal plan for the West Philadelphia Redevelopment Area and the Mantua Urban Renewal Area. This Bill would authorize the Redevelopment Authority to acquire 151 properties, 61 vacant lots and 90 vacant structures, which will be used for residential development. All properties will be acquired with bond proceeds from the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. On the homeownership side, nine vacant structures will be acquired on behalf of the People's Emergency Center CDC which will rehab them as part of a larger 25-unit homeownership development that will serve low and moderate-income households. Nine vacant structures will be acquired on behalf of Strong Properties which will undertake substantial rehabilitation using private financing and sell the properties at market rate. 133 of the properties, 61 vacant lots and 72 vacant structures, will be acquired on behalf 161 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES of PEC for a project known as Cloisters 3, a 60-unit rental development to be financed with low-income housing tax credits. Passage of this Bill will lead to the creation of 34 new homeownership units and 60 new rental housing units. Mr. Chairperson and Members of the Committee, I respectfully request favorable consideration of Bill No. 030297 and would also ask for the suspension of Rules to allow first reading on June 5, 2003.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. I'm Richard Redding from the Planning Commission testifying in support of Bill No. 030297 to facilitate housing revitalization in the Mantua neighborhood. The Planning Commission approved this at its April meeting of 2003. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Any questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
Anyone else to 162 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES testify on this Bill? This is Mantua Urban Renewal Area. Anyone? Please identify yourself for the record.
Yes. My name is Shirley Chapman. I'm the owner of properties located on Haverford Avenue 3836 through 3860 Haverford Avenue. I currently have eight of those properties that have been listed for condemnation. First of all, I'd like to say I was very disturbed that I have a presence in the community for sometime, have currently been developing properties in that particular strip and some of those properties have been rehabbed. They're developed and are currently occupied. It was my intention to continue to be able to develop the remaining properties. I must say that it has been very difficult to do so, but I've had architectural information that was provided to me. I'm working with an organization right now to assist me in that development. One of the problems that I believe is that people that are in an area that live in the area are passionate about their area, committed to it, find it very hard to compete with outsiders that are coming in because they're given a lot of 163 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES favorable, I believe, incentives to develop because what I find is that a lot of times they'll go into areas, develop areas, spend a hundred, a hundred fifty thousand dollars to develop houses and they're able to sell them for 50,000. So small developers like myself are really at a very disadvantage. We're disadvantaged when we're attempting to financing for properties because a lot of the mortgage companies, you can qualify on income, but when they look at the neighborhoods and so forth, they're not willing to invest. So I would like to appeal first of all to the City to allowing me to continue to be successful in my endeavors to develop these properties that I've maintained for many, many years. I've continued to pay taxes. All of the units that are currently occupied have some Section 19 8 tenants, so that would indicate that these properties are within code, that they are maintained favorably, and we are required to have annual inspections every year, which they do pass. I would like the City to consider that people in a community that have been born, lived in communities are allowed to develop their own 164 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES communities and have some type of assistance. Instead, we're always pushed aside, not given assistance and support, and it seems like private developers from the suburbs and from other areas can come in and develop things and we're not allowed or given the support to develop our own communities. I believe that we need to move forward to improve our neighborhoods, but I don't think that the residents and the people that have been committed to the areas for years have to make all the sacrifices and give up everything that they've worked hard by putting their resources and time into it and allow other people to come in -- because the only thing that they're looking at is the bottom line. They don't have the love and the compassion and commitment for our communities and neighborhoods. My appeal right now is to please, just don't take my properties. I want to develop them. I've been working towards that effort. And if anything, why not help me do what I'm trying to do that would benefit me, the tenants that are there, and the community that wants to stay intact. (Applause.)
Thank you. What I 165 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES would suggest that you do is -- I think Ms. Snead is here. Would you please make arrangements to have a discussion with her relative to those specific properties and whatever the District Councilperson decides in that particular regard, okay?
Is there anyone else to testify on the Mantua Urban Renewal Area? Councilman Ortiz.
My name is Melissa Long. I'm the Director for People's Emergency Center CDC. We are proposing to -- these properties would be part of our 60-unit low-income housing tax credit project that we'll be developing in partnership with Penn Rose Properties.
When we say low income, what do we mean by that? 166 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES
Eighty percent and below. It's low-income housing tax credits. They're financed by Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency.
Well, what we would do is we would actually apply for project base Section 8. That's what we recently did with our Imani Homes that we developed in West Powelton. So that is 167 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES subject to the approval of the Housing Authority.
Right and that is generally what it costs these days to construct affordable housing.
Penn Rose Properties will be selecting in conjunction with us the general contractor. But I have to say that we're very committed to neighborhood hiring and --
Other than laborers, 168 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES are there going to be African Americans and people from other colors other than Caucasian working in that project?
What about if the contractor doesn't meet that goal? What happens to him?
Well, I can say -- I can give you some recent examples. We were recently awarded the Targeted Basic System Repairs and we've selected a minority contractor Harold Thomas, and we also are targeting some of those repairs for the Mantua area in and around 3800 block of spring Garden. So we've already made a commitment and we've already selected a minority-owned general contractor.
When is that going 169 06/03/03 - COMMITTEE ON RULES out?