You have about 9,000 inmates at this time? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Approximately, sir, yes.
What percentage are enrolled in programs? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Right now about 4,000. Let me clarify that. Of those 4,000, they're involved in both institutional programming, which would include drug and alcohol counseling, other therapeutic programs, GED, other schools, vocational training, and it also includes institutional jobs, which don't have a training component. 118 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc.
So how many of the 9,000 are enrolled in some program? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: About 4,000.
So you do have GED programs. Can someone actually receive a GED within the Prison System? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes. Actually, we awarded 250 GED certificates last year, Fiscal '08.
I asked the last Prison Commissioner this question in the last budget hearing. He understood the question, but didn't provide me with the information. I am interested in tracking on a yearly basis of the census how many inmates have GEDs or high school diplomas. I don't know how long it will take to get that information, but I'm interested in knowing of the 9,000 how many have GEDs and high school diplomas, and next year I'll be asking the questions in terms of the census that's 119 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. in there how many have GEDs and high school diplomas. What the last Prison Commissioner gave me was a listing of the people participating in programs, but I actually specifically want that piece of data, if you can provide it. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have that data today, but I'm sure we can provide it.
That's fine. You can just forward it to the Chair. That would be great. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Okay.
How much of your budget is dedicated towards what you would consider reentry? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: At the current time, I believe we have $3 million dedicated to reentry services.
The last Prison Commissioner released a report in November 9th of last year and addressed the PREP legislation and wrote, "This legislation sponsored by Councilman 120 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. Wilson Goode, Jr. should be supported and pursued as an incentive to encourage employers to hire ex-offenders. However, the details of what it requires in the Philadelphia Prison System have to be discussed with the Councilman after we are able to brief him on the way the Prison operates. As the ordinance is now drafted, it could not be practically implemented as we believe the Councilman intended." Now, the first mistake he made was, I didn't draft the ordinance. The ordinance was conceived and actually drafted by our now Mayor Michael Nutter, but the question is, I don't know if you were aware of the comments in here, but is the PREP program being implemented? Are there problems with implementing the PREP program within the Prison System, and what exactly is your current connection to the PREP program? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I'm aware of the report you're referring to. In 121 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. regards to the PREP program, we've already begun our, no pun intended, preparations, if you will, for implementation. It requires me to draft an agreement that an inmate will sign prior to release to take part in and I believe pay certain fees to take part in, once they're employed, pay certain fees to the City as a result of the services rendered to them. I've generated that letter. It's being reviewed for final release. We've also discussed -- the legislation also requires us to make inmates aware of reentry programs available to them, the PREP in particular and some other opportunities, once they're admitted to the system and not wait until they reach a certain point prior to release. I believe it requires us to inform inmates within six months of their release of these opportunities. What we're planning to do is to actually, since we get a number of inmates 122 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. sentenced that have less than six months, we plan to make that available to them shortly after admission. So this way, we won't miss anyone. We don't want anyone to fall between the cracks.
The legislation also requires an assessment of each inmate. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We're conducting that now, to a degree. Our social workers conduct an assessment within three days of when an inmate is admitted. That includes a service plan once it's been determined educational level, ability, physical condition have been determined. We need to expand that to address the PREP legislation. One of our Deputy Commissioners is in the process of developing a questionnaire format, a universal assessment tool that each of our programming supervisors can use to contribute their portion to the assessment. 123 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc.
So you have no problem implementing the program conceived by the Mayor? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Not at this time, no. 7
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you. Commissioner, even though we spoke briefly before the hearing, I, for the record, just want to make sure that we keep the concept of the Worker Inmate Program on track, that we can hopefully place some of the inmates that have been processed for work release into the Fairmount Park and also the Zoo and some other places. So I look forward to that, for the record. The other question that I have 124 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. is, could you describe the -- and the reason I ask this question, because I know that in some institutions inmates have to make collect calls, and those collect calls are very, very expensive today. I heard that they can be as much as two, three bucks. Could you describe how an inmate communicates with their family and the process that you use at our facility to have them call home and legal counsel or whatever that they're allowed to call? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, sir. When an inmate is admitted, they're allowed to -- they are required to supply us with five authorized phone numbers that they intend to call during their incarceration. That list can be changed after 90 days. We issue them a pin number so that no one else can make calls on their account. Following that, once that list is processed, they are allowed to make three free phone calls a day for a total 125 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. of ten minutes during the course of each day. They are also allowed to make an unlimited number of 15-minute collect calls as well.
Did we ever ascertain what it costs to make a collect call? My point being, I understand there's a real financial hardship on family members. They don't want to, say, refuse the call, and in most cases, they accept it. And I understand it can be extremely expensive to make a collect call from the jail. Any idea what it costs?
I'm Roseanne Duzinski. I'm the Director of Contract Compliance and Administration for the Prisons and I manage the inmate phone system. We're actually in the process of renegotiating -- or, actually, a contract has just been awarded to G-Tel for the inmate telephone system. Last year the cost for a collect call for 15 126 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. minutes locally was about $3.15 during the day, which is about the same rate that the Airport pays and anybody who calls from a public pay phone. Pay phone charges have become incredibly expensive because of the lack of business in the pay phone area. We have been able to, however, negotiate with G-Tel to reduce those costs. So the projected cost for this year, assuming some changes in calling patterns, would be for a 15-minute call locally during the day would be approximately $2.40 and the evening would be $1.70. That's for local. When you go into what they call, I think, intraLATA, which means kind of suburban, Jersey, whatever, those costs go up into the $3-and-something range. The area we've really tried to reduce the costs in -- and we have not been very successful -- is in the area of very long distance calls, and that's where the real abuse comes in, where the connect fee is about $3 and it's 89 cents 127 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. a minute, which, again, unfortunately, is pretty standard in a lot of the pay phones in Philadelphia and at the Airport.
You would think that in this world of technology and communication that we could maybe ask the communication people to maybe work with you to develop -- to have someone to call from the Northeast to the Northwest and have to make a collect call that costs how much again for minutes? 14
There's got to be a better way, because from what I understand, the inmate doesn't want to hear a family member say after they receive a phone bill of several, in some cases -- a lot of money to refuse a collect call, it can cause strain in the relationship, but the spouse is responsible for the phone bill. Could you possibly consider 128 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. meeting with our communication people to see if there's a way that would satisfy your security? And I really don't understand, if you allow people to make free calls and the City pays cents -- 7 if you make a call within the City of Philadelphia, it's either 7 or cents. 9 I forget. When you dial 9 on a City 10 phone -- 11
Seven cents. Why can't we develop a system where we charge the inmate for the phone call rather than burdening an estranged possibly family member or whatever with the burden to pay that? I've heard that hundreds of dollars in bills have been assessed of inmates calling their wives and family members. Maybe there's a better way that we could do this to lessen the impact on your budget and make the inmate responsible. I mean, we're reasonable. A 7 cent call is unlimited. They can talk for 15 minutes for 7 cents 129 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. rather than $2 and whatever cents you just mentioned a minute ago. I think that there's got to be a better way to conduct this activity.
If I could just give a little bit more information to you on this. Deputy Commissioner Joe James and Frank Punzo from Communications have worked very hard in this area. (Bell rung.)
One of the issues with the inmate phone system, it's not just a direct call like you make from a telephone system. There's a software package and a lot of hardware that runs the inmate telephone system. Every single call, except for legal calls, that go out from the Philadelphia Prisons are recorded and monitored. So that every week we receive about 50 subpoenas from the courts to produce these voice recordings and these call detail records. The costs for producing these security measures are one of the reasons for the 130 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. high phone costs. We have negotiated this. That's why the prices were able to come down somewhat this year. Certainly we can go back to them, but the investment in terms of equipment is probably in the area of $2 to $3 million by the phone vendor. So what we're actually doing, to some extent, is paying for the security issues and the software associated, and there may be some room for negotiation.
I understand that, but when you make a collect call -- let's assume Verizon is the connector. The person that handles the call, you don't benefit from any of that money, I wouldn't think, on that collect call. That all goes in their pocket.
From the Prisons. It goes into the City General 131 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. Fund. Last year $755,000 went into the City's General Fund from the Prisons.
Well, I honestly believe that there is a better way. Not being a communication expert, but I would bet that there's got to be a better way. And I understand the security aspects. And I'll stop now, because the bell went off, and I'll come back at you, but I understand that some of that technology permits three-way calling. Like a person calls home and then they can continue to connect people. I understand all that is illegal or improper to do, but if you could -- I'm going to talk to Joe James and Frank Punzo. They're separated now. I think 132 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. Joe is in IT and Punzo is still in Public Property. But I would like to see what we can do to try to bring those costs to rock bottom. Thanks, Madam Chair. I'll come back at you.
Thank you, Madam Chairman. How are you today? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Good afternoon.
I need to publicly thank you. In our last encounter in between a question, I had an opportunity to need to know some things about an inmate. I had a distressed mother come into my office about her son. Her son was going through it as an incarcerated individual in your facility. And I want to thank you for finding out about his safety and well-being, getting that information back to me so I could 133 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. communicate that to his mother. It didn't make it better, but it made it at least palatable to know that he was at least safe. So I appreciate that and I wanted to publicly put that on the record. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: You're welcome, sir.
Having said that, here comes my question. Thank you for providing me with some of the contract information that I asked for. Are you prepared now to answer the question of how many providers for training does the Prison System contract with? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: For vocational training?
And they are? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Jewish 134 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. Employment Vocational Services. Impact Services doesn't provide training, but they provide some services in regards to reentry. And up until now, the Pennsylvania Prison Society.
Of them, how do you rate their performance? How do you measure their performance? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We measure their performance through the contracts process, where as they meet the requirements, payment is made and we render -- register our satisfaction on the services.
I guess more specifically, how many inmates go through each of their programs and what is the percentage of successful placement after training? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have that information with me today, sir.
And of that, which ones based on that placement have reduced recidivism, is my second part to 135 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. that question. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have that information either, but I can say this: One of the things that we're taking a look at because in order for us to meet some of the orders that the Mayor -- the charge the Mayor has given us is going to require us to measure recidivism, inmate participation and how we can increase inmate participation and reduce recidivism.
Are you familiar with the Jobs Program in Frankford? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Frankford Reentry?
How do you rate them? And of the three, are they a subcontract to any one of those entities? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Frankford Reentry was grant funded. They weren't contracted to us. They were grant 136 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. funded, but provided services, reentry services, to some of our inmates, and their program included post release housing, some vocational training and a faith-based spiritual support and community support.
Are you familiar with their success rate on recidivism as one category of evaluation? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: No, I'm not, and I held a meeting with some of their representatives earlier this month to ask that information. I haven't received it yet.
Well, I've done a little due diligence. There is an 18 percent recidivism rate among their clientele versus the general population's 78 percent recidivism. And I'm sure you don't have those statistics in front of you, but for the moment, take my word on that. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, sir.
And if in 137 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. fact that is true, if in fact that is true, are you going to replicate that in other areas of the City as a part of your consideration going forward? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Just prior to my being appointed as Acting, I believe the Frankford Reentry, which was in the 19124 zip code, was planning to expand to two additional zip codes.
So I'm interested in what neighborhoods and how many of those neighborhoods are in the 4th Councilmanic District and the 7th Councilmanic District in particular. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have that information. I'll get that for you.
Okay. I'm very interested in that. A couple other questions. Aramark is your primary food service provider? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, it is. 138 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc.
Do they bill 3 by the inmate or by the meal? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: By the meal.
So if an inmate doesn't like the meal, doesn't eat the meal, we still pay for it? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, we do.
So would there possibly be an incentive that they not create meals that are edible so that they can -- I mean, I don't understand. Why don't we pay by the meal as opposed to by the inmate? I'm just confused. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: For us to logistically determine how many inmates ate the three meals on a given day would be probably as costly as any savings we would realize in the contract.
Fair enough, but they're not incentivized to create something edible because they get paid anyway, just for the record. All right. 139 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. The other thing is, how many minority and female subcontractors do they use and who are they? I'm going to get my questions in before the ringer goes off. Also -- (Bell rung.)
See, I knew it. That's that freshman bell. But one other question since I started it. Are you aware that they are being challenged on their MBE and minority participation by Cook County, Illinois?
Thank you. Thank you for promoting the 7th Councilmanic District reentry program. About a month ago -- by the 140 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. way, congratulations on your permanent appointment. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Thank you.
I think, right, or you think? About a month ago I spent an afternoon at Graterford, and even though that was a state institution, I walked into an auditorium with 100 men, most of them lifers, committing crimes between the ages of and 19. So some of them 14 will never see the light of day. But 15 what was most astonishing to me, that 80 16 percent of their families lived in my district and that's why I was invited out there. And it just frightened me of what is going on with those families in the district whose father in this particular case is not at home, and just as we talk about our challenges in the community, I was just really astonished. I haven't had an opportunity yet to visit some of the prisons in the 141 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. Philadelphia system since I've been elected, and I will, but I wanted to ask you in terms of the reentry programs, what are some of the plans that you have moving forward? Because I was concerned about are we looking at which ones have been successful and how do we replicate those models. And I'm also interested in what are we doing with the female population, in particular women who are pregnant or have children? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: First, let me address my own plans -- well, I wouldn't say my own plans, but the plans that I believe will be successful for the Prison System and will aid the City. Along with Deputy Mayor Gillison and other members of the criminal justice community in the City, we've begun planning day reporting, so that some of those incarcerated, particularly on technical parole violations, don't have to spend the traditional 30 days or more in our custody. We'd like to reduce that 142 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. to eight days or less, and at the same time, connect them with services that they need, housing, programming, counseling, vocational services, public benefit services in the community. We're exploring that with the Mayor's Office of Reentry Services, who even up till this point, although they've been in existence and served ex-offenders in the general public, they haven't been able to establish a presence in the prisons. We've already removed that obstacle. We are going to make it possible for their staff to come in and conduct presentations and interviews in the prisons. We're going to improve the link between them and our Inmate Services staff. As far as other efforts, there's a substantial amount of our population that is on a mental health caseload. Some are seriously mentally ill and are only incarcerated as the result of the fact that there are no 143 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. community mental health beds for them to be in.
How many would you say? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Our total mental health caseload I believe now is about 1,800 inmates. Now, that's a broad range. That's from the depressed to the seriously mentally ill and violent individuals. We don't have any -- we don't really have any places in the area to send them to, and the eventual result, it becomes a cycle where sometimes they re-offend in custody that causes them to be detained even longer. Although we do have, in my estimation, an effective treatment program, it's not a treatment atmosphere where they can benefit solely from, other than security supervision. As far as the pregnant women, I don't know what the number is today, but we usually average -- and that was my former assignment more than Riverside, the main female facility. We averaged 144 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. between and 20, maybe pregnant women at any given time in custody. We housed them on a particular area where they are monitored more closely, both by the medical and security staff. We provide them with access to routine exams as dictated by their pregnancy. We do maintain those who are admitted on methadone, methadone during their pregnancy. We maintain that throughout their pregnancy. We also have a grant-funded program called the MomMobile that follows them prenatal, postnatal and if they're released in the meantime, after that for one year. So they can maintain community support. Their families will get some type of support and they just won't be left out in the cold when they're released.
One more 22 question. If you can submit to the Chair, I'd like to get, as it relates to your staffing, what are the number of bilingual personnel that you have and how 145 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. are they deployed throughout the system. (Bell rung.) COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have the exact number of bilingual personnel.
But you can submit it. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: They're usually deployed so that we can provide bilingual services, at least limited bilingual services, in each facility. We'll submit that to the Chair.
Madam Chair, could I miss this round and come back to me, please?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I took the liberty of looking at the contract information that you 146 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. provided me, and two things are glaring. One, I evaluate the contract done by Impact Services that comes out to, based on the 1,800 participants that they deal with, a per inmate cost of $1,411 per offender and per participant. Then I look at the JEVS contract that comes out to $5,200 per participant. And I was questioning why there's such a disparity in the training and why that disparity exists. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I believe the disparity exists because the nature of the services are different. Impact Services provided employment counseling and ID -- one of the serious problems we encountered in reentry when we first started trying to address the subject was the fact of housing when an inmate is released in the community and identification. Post 9/11 it became very difficult for someone who is released from prison without a birth certificate to obtain a Social Security card, to 147 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. obtain a state ID, and while in custody, it became almost impossible for them to get a birth certificate or the state ID. Impact Services developed a method where they were able to more or less vouch for the individual, and we have a disbursement process where the inmate will pay a fee, they will apply for the identification. The identification will be released to Impact and then they'll pick it up upon release.
These are services provided by Impact? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: By Impact.
So why does JEVS cost so much? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Because the range of services that JEVS provides, they provide a number of vocational services where the supplies and the amount of inmates that they have enrolled is greater. They provide vocational services in the line of environmental 148 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. maintenance, customer service, computer instruction, building maintenance and -- I believe that's it.
So are you saying that JEVS's services are more complicated than Impact's? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, they are.
And you're saying that the vocational side is what's costing so much as opposed to Impact, which is more social service? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, it is.
So why are they both called job placement contracts? I mean, I'm not... COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Because under the JEVS umbrella, the training, the testing, the diagnostic piece that's done prior to the vocational placement and during the vocational training is broader than what Impact is providing or contracted for, for that matter. 149 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc.
All right. Thank you. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: You're welcome.
Thank you. Thank you for that accommodation, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I understand in the media today that the Mayor has issued an Executive Order asking you and Mr. Gillison to conduct a study to come up with ways to control the prison population. I don't think I'll direct this to you, but maybe you can pass it on. I'd appreciate it, because I recollect that a report, a similar report, was just completed, and I'm hoping that the Administration is aware of that report. It was dated November 9, 2007, and I'd like to ask the Administration to forward a copy of that report to the Chair. 150 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Councilman Rizzo, I believe the report you may be referring to was conducted by Dr. John Goldkamp?
No. I think I'm talking about a report that -- I think it was the former Commissioner's report and it was presented to the Transition Team dated November 9th. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I'm familiar with what you're recommending. We can forward you a copy of that.
You have a copy of that report? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes.
Could you provide that to the Chair? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, we can.
So, again, is this just a fresh look at that issue or was that just a waste of time preparing that last report? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't 151 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. believe it was a waste of time, and that, coupled with some other data that we're collecting, not only the Goldkamp report that I referred to but some other studies that we're conducting now, will be the basis of my response to the Mayor.
Okay. So you'll provide a copy of that report dated November 9th to the Chair, please? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Will do.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just actually have one question. I'd like to get the data on recidivism. How many inmates are there today? What's your population count? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Our population as of midnight was 9,138. 152 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc.
Of that 9,100 plus, how many are there for pretrial and how many are there that you would include in a recidivism, a return to? And I'd also like to know if they're there because of recidivism, how many are there for parole or probation violations and what were the violations. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have a breakdown of that information at this time.
I know you don't have it. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: But the actual -- the composition of the population by sentenced and detentioner is approximately 60 percent detentioners, 40 percent sentenced. Within that sentenced population, there are some parole violators. As far as total recidivism?
Well, you can just give me within the sentenced, how many do you have that are sentenced, 153 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. do you know, of the 9,000? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Forty percent.
Okay. And within that sentenced, how many received the sentence because they were in violation of probation or parole? It's my understanding -- I know you're busting out at the seams and I just want to know how many are actually there because they committed a crime or how many are there because they had a cell phone or they couldn't pay a $125 fine. That's the information I'm looking for. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I don't have that information with me.
Well, who would have it? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We could extract that from our inmate tracking database.
Okay. I know you don't have it with you today. In fact, I meant to call you yesterday 154 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. and ask for that type of information. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We can provide it.
Because from what I hear from offenders is that so many people are there because the parole or probation officer sent them back for some very small infractions, and I just want to know -- I want to have that information. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We will provide it.
Okay. And the other thing, one other question, that's it. Is there an issue with treatment of inmates at the Delaware County facilities that we are paying to use? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: At this moment, we're no longer contracted with the Delaware County prison. I believe that contract expired -- well, as a matter of fact, because of an increase in the Delaware County population, we had to 155 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. withdraw from that sometime ago. I don't know whether they're having problems with inmate treatment in that facility.
But Philadelphia inmates are no longer there? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: No. 8 We're no longer housing anyone there.
One more piece of information for the record. As you work with Deputy Mayor Everson -- and I had this conversation with him briefly before -- I have a concern around as we move to pre-release centers and some of the facilities that we have in the City, I think it's important that we map out their locations and similar situated programs so that we're not overburdening certain communities, and I'm particularly concerned because I have three 156 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. pre-release centers in a city block with a thousand beds and some potential expansion. And, again, we want to be helpful in providing these opportunities, but we also want to make sure as we disperse them throughout the City that there's a strategy for where we place them. I don't know how that happened. It was previous to my coming in, but it is a concern that I hear with the community. As we look at halfway houses and some other alternatives, that the City develop a strategy, a mapping strategy, around where they're really placed in the City. So I just wanted to put that in the record, that you keep that in the back of your mind as you plan and as you look to expand some of these services. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We will.
Thank you very much. 157 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. I just have a couple of questions. Could you tell me what is your budget for inmate healthcare? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Our actual budget for inmate healthcare -- and I have the information here -- totals $55,200,000.
What is your average medical cost for a detentioner? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We don't collect that data as far as average cost per detentioner. What we look at is the number of visits that an inmate pays to the different healthcare services.
I guess the next question would be, are we trying to collect reimbursement for any of detentioners' medical expenses? COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I can give you that information. 158 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. (Witness approached witness table.)
My name is Bruce Herdman. I'm the Chief of Medical Operations for the Prison. We are exploring billing insurance companies for care provided first in hospitals, which is our major off-campus expense. Our expectation, although we haven't quantified it for sure, is that there are a substantial number of inmates who have not just medical assistance but commercial insurance, and the hospitals and specialists in the community should bill 17 those insurers before the City pays anything.
Does your vendors who provide medical services to the Prison, couldn't they bill -- do they have the capacity or ability to bill for the services they provide?
The two vendors do not have that capacity. The 159 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. conventional wisdom has been that because in the State of Pennsylvania inmates lose their medical assistance eligibility upon incarceration, that there really wasn't anybody to bill, but I think we've discovered more recently that numbers of inmates have commercial insurance, our Work Release people, people who are covered by virtue of their spouses working, and we need to take advantage of those policies.
Okay. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? (No response.)
Thank you so much and congratulations and we wish you well. COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Thank you and you're welcome. Have a good day.
Thank you. MR. McPHERSON: The next department is the Department of Records. (Witnesses approached witness 160 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. table.)
You may proceed. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Thank you. Good afternoon, Councilwoman and members of Council. My name is Joan Decker, Records Commissioner, and with me today are Jeanne Reedy, Administrative Services Director; Dave Werbo, Budget Director; and we also have several staff members, Diana Perry, Anita Banks and also Kieran Murphy, in the audience. Each year we like to take just a few minutes to recognize some of these staff members who help to make our operations very successful, we believe. So we thank them for their contributions. For FY09, the Records Department is requesting a General Fund Operating Budget of $7,679,871, which 161 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. maintains the Department of Records' '08 estimated budget obligations. This allocation is broken out as follows: Class 100, which is personal services, remains at $3,658,731. Class 200, purchase of services, allocation remains unchanged at $3,680,425. This level of funding supports continuous improvements in service deliveries to the public and is funded through the Department of Records' fee increases which were implemented in Fiscal Years '03, '04 and '05. Class 300, materials and supplies, remains at $195,408. Class 400, equipment, allocation remains at $143,851. And Class 500 remains at the '08 level of $1,456. I won't read word for word the testimony. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, the Records Department is charged with the care and maintenance and access to public records under its care. It exercises this through a number of public service rooms and also some 162 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. internal support units. Most visible and highly active is the Document Recording area, which is where we serve as the county Recorder of Deeds. Over the past several years, we have implemented an automated system. We've made continuous improvements and upgrades in automation, including optical character recognition. Also recently implemented electronic recording. All of these efforts are really targeted to improving service to our customers and decreasing the amount of time it takes us to process the records and, therefore, return them and make them available to the public. Our electronic recording initiative continues to grow. It now comprises approximately 30 percent of our document recording volume, and we have the participation of approximately 144 companies. We have also continued to send a document notice letter each time a deed 163 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. or a mortgage is recorded in our office. This alerts a homeowner to the recording of a deed or a mortgage against their property and hopefully gives them a first alert should there be any incidences of fraudulent transfer against their property. To date, we have sent over a half a million, actually over 600,000 notices to our citizens. Also along those lines we have just recently completed a fraud tracking system that will be shortly implemented. That will be an internal system and it will be used by other agencies who are interested and who collaborate with us in addressing this problem of fraudulent conveyance. We are attempting to convert as many records as we can, as many of the public records under our care as we can, and make them conveniently available to the public by 7, particularly on the 24 Internet. We have also continued and will continue to convert as many records 164 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. as we can and include them in online systems to make them more readily available. As far as the support of the Administration's emphasis on ethics, we are responsible for the financial disclosure statements of selected City employees and also for the processing and availability, public availability, of campaign finance reports. As an internal service agency, we have some internal units, including Central Duplicating. They process thousands of requests each year, and we also support a records storage center. It's the size of a football field.
We manage 100,000 cubic feet of records, and we're responsible for not only transferring the records in for storage, but also destroying them at the end of their useful life cycle. And these are some of the major initiatives that we've identified in our written testimony, the turn-around times, 165 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. and our commitment to service delivery to the public. And we appreciate your support for these initiatives which we've outlined, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much. I don't have a lot of questions. I just want to ask you one thing. When you receive a deed in your department, does a copy of that go to the Revenue Department? COMMISSIONER DECKER: The Revenue --
How does the Revenue Department get its documentation of a sale? COMMISSIONER DECKER: The Revenue Department on a nightly basis takes an extract of the records that were -- the deeds recorded on that day and takes that extract and uses it in their system.
I can't 166 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. really hear you. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Sorry. The Revenue Department does receive an extract of our documents every day. So the deeds that are recorded in our system are extracted and made available to the Revenue, particularly the Real Estate Unit.
One of the problems that we are having in our community and in this City is the inability to contact owners of properties. If there's a nuisance property in a community, sometimes there is an agent listed and not the owner of the property. I guess we could come back to the Records Department and get the owner. Do you take the owner or do you take the -- the owner has to be listed as the purchaser of the property on your records? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes. That's correct. That's correct.
You have 167 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. an address for that person? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes. On the deed there is an area that's called a Certification, and that Certification Statement contains the address where really the City supposedly can contact them and where tax bills can be sent. And that's a -- it's called a Certification Statement. So that includes that.
Okay. Of course, you know we have to ask you the question. You did respond to the issue of how fraud and how homeowners lose their property through fraudulent means, and I see that you are addressing that issue. Councilman Greenlee has the flu and I'm sure he would be here to ask a question about what you're doing to -- I mean, some things are going to fall through the cracks, but it seems you are taking some action to protect the citizens. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes. We 168 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. do what we're allowed to do within the laws. The recording process is mandated by Pennsylvania statutes, so they're not City laws. We are required to follow them. That means that we have to follow what they tell us to look for and we're not permitted to request or look for other pieces of material. We have worked over the past several years not only to distribute the document notice letter, but we also work with the Philadelphia Bar Association. There is an established committee known as the Fraudulent Conveyance Committee, and its participants include not only the Records Department but also representatives from the District Attorney's Office Economic Crime Unit, as well as Police inspectors who are assigned to work with the District Attorney on these matters, a number of non-profit organizations that provide legal services to victims of property fraud who cannot afford to pay for 169 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. attorneys. Those organizations include the Senior Law Center, Philadelphia Volunteers for the Indigent Program, Community Legal Services and other interested participants, members of some of the larger land title insurance companies, the lawyers participate as well. We have met over the past three years, I would say, and a lot of this fraud is something that we've been aware of just for about three years, and a lot of this has been a learning process for all the entities involved. And the objective of this group really, as we have learned how fraud occurs and some of the measures that we can take at least to notify homeowners, is really to try to provide direction for legal services. The most important step that a victim of fraud can take is to obtain the services of a lawyer as soon as possible. That's on the civil side. Some of these cases obviously, there's fraud involved, and 170 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. they are prosecuted on the criminal side of the law. But, again, the goal of this committee so far has been to try to understand how this is occurring, what trends may be surfacing and also primarily to -- again, we've worked with the Philadelphia Bar Association, who through their lawyer and referral information service, there's a contact number there. They provide a list of about participating real estate 14 attorneys who will take these cases. 15 They're for-fee attorneys, and for those individuals who cannot afford a lawyer, they're directed to one of these non-profit organizations that I've mentioned. We have found that there are some patterns to fraud. There are -- frequently elderly are targets of property fraud. They may temporarily be out of their homes, in a nursing home or recuperating with a relative, and the 171 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. property gives the appearance of being vacant or abandoned. I would say the largest frequency occurs in houses that appear to be vacant or abandoned. It appears that these fraudulators, which we call them, really are on the look-out for any kind of a house, a residence, that looks like it's unoccupied. We do have a list of tips for homeowners on our website. We encourage those homeowners really if they need to be away from their property, make sure that they have some kind of light timers on their property or a trusted individual will check on their property. Do not give the appearance of mail accumulating on their porches and so on, so forth.
So with everything that we're permitted to do within the boundaries of the law, we have implemented measures. We also in the walk-in deeds in our Document Recording Room, we have a camera which takes the photo of anybody who comes in and wants to record a deed, and 172 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. we also request that they sign a logbook. So they place their signature as well as the address of the property in question. We also request identification. We cannot require this by law. This is voluntary, but if they do -- we ask, and if they furnish it, we have a record of this.
Is she saying we cannot by law require to do an ID verification? COMMISSIONER DECKER: That's correct.
Because of the state? COMMISSIONER DECKER: That's correct.
As a city, we couldn't pass an ordinance to require an ID verification? State statute prohibits that? 173 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. COMMISSIONER DECKER: I don't believe you'd be able to do that, because this whole area is governed by Pennsylvania statutes.
So when someone comes in within an ID; for instance, one of the areas is the sibling, there's a lot of transfers, sister to brother, uncle to aunt, whatever. How do we verify that? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Again, we request information, but we cannot require it. We'll work with the Revenue Real Estate. The Records Department functions as a revenue agent for both the City and also the State in the collection of realty transfer taxes, and under that set of laws, we perform collection of realty transfer taxes at the time a deed is presented for recording. In that capacity, we will ask the Revenue Department what kinds of documentation would you request. We'll make an attempt to ask for that at the counter, but, 174 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. again, we have to record the deed if it meets the other legal requirements. If the individual is not able to provide that information at the counter at the time of recording, we cannot refuse to record. The area of law which we've tried to suggest to have pass, we've not been successful at, which would be the notary law. In the document recording process, the notary performs a very important function. They really validate the identity of the, in the case of a deed, the seller of a property. The land records law for notaries requires that that person who has to sign the deed personally appears before a notary, and the notary is to request identification and the notary is also required to maintain a journal of transactions with certain other information in it. One of the weaknesses of the current law -- it's actually twofold. As you have just mentioned, even if someone 175 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. provides an identification card, in the case of some of these fraudulators, it's a false identity. They've manufactured an identity. They come in with photo ID. So there's really little way -- they use fictitious names and they have a false identity. So there's not a lot of ways that you can verify that. But law enforcement tells us that if a notary were required to place their thumb print in the notary journal, that would give them the ability of traceability, that it's likely that if someone is performing this type of criminal activity, it's possible that they already have a criminal record and would be able to be traced. Another weakness of the law is that any of us can go to certain companies that sell notary equipment, notary stamps and seals, and I could walk into one of these companies and purchase this equipment and pass myself off as a notary. And so the suggested change is 176 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. to make that a criminal offense. There's no real offense for presenting yourself to be a notary if you are not duly commissioned. So we will be again approaching the General Assembly. The notary law is also part of the state statutes. And we'll also make that recommendation and attempt to have that resubmitted and reconsidered at the General Assembly level.
I have some more questions, but I'll wait for my time.
Well, you'll wait until you come back. Well, it seems to me that -- I'm trying to place under the circumstances. I go into a bank and had to leave my thumb print for a transaction. It seems that we ought to be able -- maybe that's federal law. There's banking state law also. Maybe we can request that, too. Given the nature 177 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. of this current wave of fraud, property fraud, the state should take a different look at what's going on. Have you found the state to be open to recommendations for change? COMMISSIONER DECKER: We haven't been successful in the notary law, for example. We tried to present that. I think the District Attorney's Office first presented that several years ago, and they did testify before the General Assembly, without success, and we've tried to get it on the agenda since then and have not been successful in doing that. But, again, we will continue with our efforts. We're certainly open to suggestions for other ways to deal with this, but, again, we believe that the notary already by law is charged with confirming the identity and there is a requirement for personal appearance of the seller of the property before the notary. So we believe that that would be 178 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. one of the key areas to look for change. But, again, we're open to any other suggestions.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Good afternoon.
I have a question regarding the transferring of property. I noted you take a digital picture of anyone transferring a property, and I heard you say that in your testimony. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes.
And suppose someone says that they don't want their picture taken. Can you force them? I mean, is that an absolute requirement? COMMISSIONER DECKER: No, we cannot force them. We cannot force them.
That's 179 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. what I thought. And also, how long is the digital picture stored and is it printed and attached to the record? COMMISSIONER DECKER: We keep the pictures indefinitely. We haven't deleted anything that's been entered into the system. The way that we can trace, if we have to, to associate the photo with the recorded document is going back to this logbook. Every time we record a document, the recording date and the time is imprinted on the document so we know the day in which that document was presented and recorded, as well as the time. We can go back to that logbook and look for the signature on that date, as well as into the system and pull up the photographs and the address on that date. So there is a way to cross-connect them. These photos have been used by the District Attorney's Office. We are required and periodically have been requested to furnish some of this information. The Records Department is 180 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. not privy to investigations of the District Attorney, so I don't know what all of the outcomes are, but we do make all this information and we work with the District Attorney's Office to provide copies of the photos, copies of signatures in the logbook and any other -- and also we do keep copies of IDs. If an ID is furnished, we'll make a copy of it and also maintain a file of the IDs.
One of the incidents that happened in the newspaper, that was published in the newspaper, actually happened when someone came to my office. My legislative aide and I were just talking about it. Because I believe the person that came to our office also had a fraudulent driver's license that they made up with the true owner of the property's name on the driver's license but his picture. So people are very creative and they can come up with all kinds of 181 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. documents now that would not -- you wouldn't think that they're false or fraudulent to be exact, but this is -- we have people that come in our office every week about people trying to take their properties from them. Would you happen to know how many deeds were recorded in 2007 and of those recorded did you get any calls on what was recorded that was fraudulent? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Jeanne is going to look up the actual number of recorded deeds, but I can tell you to date since we started sending the document notice letters, we keep a list of reports of suspected fraud to our department. That is not the whole universe of calls, but this is what we are aware of. And we've received a little under 300 reports of suspected fraud. We have 50,687 deeds recorded in '07, Fiscal '07.
And you said 300? 182 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Three hundred over a three-year period. So it's just a little under a hundred year reports. Now, again, we do not know whether these are legitimate. We just know from our experience in taking the phone calls that sometimes they're family disputes. It's not really clear whether there is a legitimate concern there, but we believe that many of them are definitely legitimate concerns. As I mentioned, a high proportion of victims of fraudulent property fraud are the elderly. We also notice that there's a high proportion in immigrant neighborhoods where the customs perhaps of another country are a little bit different than they are in the United States as far as property conveyance and notaries are concerned. So I believe there's somewhat of a learning curve there. And also where there are other areas, abandoned 183 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. vacant properties. Incidents of these seem to appear generally in areas where maybe there are deeds of condemnation filed or we learned later are about to be filed or have been filed. So, again, wherever there is the elderly, immigrant populations, where there are vacant properties and also where there's the prospect that property values will be increasing because there is perhaps the promise of redevelopment that is coming, we think that they are, in general, the patterns. And we have been attempting to collect information to try to, as much as we can, confirm what we believe to be happening, that that is what is happening.
I think that the number of people trying to take properties increased when we started -- actually, when NTI came into existence. I think a lot of fraudulent activities took place. Not just around homeownership, but also people made up 184 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. construction companies to get money from people for home repair. (Bell rung.)
And I think once -- when the property values started increasing in Philadelphia is when a lot of this actually started to take place. I know from my office, we never had that many problems, that many constituents concerned about these issues until the NTI started, which was good, a good thing. Abandoned homes being torn down, property values going up, all those were good activities, but then on top of that good is when all this other fraudulent activity started to take place. I know it did in my district. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER DECKER: You're welcome.
The 185 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. demographics that you described are the ones in my district, and since I've been in office weeks, we get at least two a 5 week, if not more, of these cases. So it 6 is something that is very important. So 7 for me, if you could submit to the Chair 8 what are some of the proposals we've been 9 proposing in Harrisburg, which ones 10 haven't moved. Because one of the things 11 that I think we need to explore is 12 through our City Solicitor what we can do in the interim, because it is -- and I think it's much more rampant than we know. In terms of the ones that we've been able to identify that have been done fraudulently, is there a pattern with the notary that the DA's Office is pursuing at this time? COMMISSIONER DECKER: In some of the cases, some of the cases involve multiple properties, and in some of those cases, the notaries are in collusion with the transaction. In some, they're not, 186 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. for exactly the reason you've mentioned, Councilwoman Miller mentioned. It's possible to replicate IDs, to construct false photo IDs. So in some cases, the notary may not be able always to identify or to look under the surface to confirm that the ID is legitimate and not fraudulent.
Do we have a way to trigger when certain people, if there's an excess volume of certain people in certain areas, is there anything we're doing to set up some white flags? And I say that because I have found in one particular gentleman's case that we're working with the DA's Office, 100 properties under this person's name. COMMISSIONER DECKER: I mentioned in my testimony that we have just completed developing a fraud tracking system and that we're waiting to have that installed and to be used by this group, this internal group that I've mentioned, which consists of law 187 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. enforcement and some of the non-profits. What that will enable us to do is to identify trends in clusters. If something is happening in a particular area, the system is a reporting system that is connected to a geographic information system, sort of a location, and we'll be able to see if something is occurring or if there's several occurring in a particular area. It will be a little bit more easy for us to determine that. So that is the way. And also if there is the report of a suspected fraudulent activity by name and we're seeing several of them, it would be through this system that we would be able to identify whether there are patterns or clusters of these incidents occurring.
Would the system allow you to do an overlay? Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller mentioned the whole issue of NTI. Would it allow you to do an overlay; for instance, the 188 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. properties that we've done demolition on? In my case there's been over 300 demolitions under NTI. Could we quickly do an overlay to see if any of those properties have been transferred in the last couple years? COMMISSIONER DECKER: We'll work on that. That's possible for us to do that, and we will work on putting that together for you.
Okay. On another note -- I mean, I can't say enough of how important this issue is going to be for us moving forward. I mean, we're looking forward to the hearings and being able to talk about what we do as a legislative body, working with the General Assembly. But on another note, in terms of the campaign finance reporting piece, how much money has the Records Department invested in this process? How much is it costing us? Are you finding it cost effective? Because some of the 189 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. discussions have been it's like kind of a triplication of where people submit the stuff. So what's your assessment up to date? And are most of those services being contracted out, and at what point are they coming in as part of what we do on a daily basis? COMMISSIONER DECKER: The development of the system was contracted out and it's maintained by a combination of it's internal staff who are assigned to it, as well as an outside contractor. I believe the investment has been very productive. As we have been charged with this and been complying with the mandate to require electronic submission of data, we have met each of the cycles. As everyone here knows, there are seven cycles for campaign finance filing. We met with the groups consistently throughout this whole process and we gathered input about the features that everyone was interested in, and we've made a series of improvements 190 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. over the past year and a half. When you speak of duplication of data, what we now --
No, no. 6 I'm just saying -- we're streamlining it. I know. I've been part of those discussions, and the company has been very receptive, being able to upload from Excel and all these other things, but at what point in the services that we're contracting out are we going to be able to provide internally? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Well, it's split, and we probably would keep it that way. We have a vendor who will maintain the software that was developed, but we also have internal staff who will be supporting this as well. So it's two things.
The only reason I ask is because it would seem to me that the same system we should be encouraging our City Commissioners' Office to use. Since you've adopted 191 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. pretty much and accommodated their filing requirement needs, I would think that at some point we would want to look at how those things come together, since they're still requiring paper versus the electronic filing piece. So that's something -- COMMISSIONER DECKER: And we'd be more than happy to provide them with the software and let them use this as well.
Commissioner, how are you doing? COMMISSIONER DECKER: I'm all right. How are you?
Thanks for all your good work. I really appreciate your entire team. Whenever we have an issue, you guys get right on it and make people happy, and that's good in our 192 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. business. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Good. Thank you.
One of the things that I picked up on during the process here was that the Planning Commission has a lot of things that I think that you also do, and it's in the area of maps. They asked for $20,000 to produce additional maps when Councilmembers make requests. I'm wondering if you guys could get together and maybe streamline that, because if you're doing some of that and that would satisfy our needs or -- again, I don't know if there's any collaboration that would work between the two of you, but it seems as though there may be, and the Planning Commission and your organization might be able to streamline some of these requests for information and save the taxpayers some dollars. COMMISSIONER DECKER: And --
You do maps, 193 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. correct? COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes, we do. We do what we call parcel maps, the maps that are generated from the legal descriptions on deeds. But we certainly will be happy to meet with them, and to the extent that we can become more efficient and save the City money, we're certainly all for that.
One of the things, the public perceives us as not being as creative as the private sector, and sometimes I have to agree, but I remind people that the government can never be run like the private sector, but it seems as though there's so much overlap, there's so much duplication of effort. Everybody wants to have their own control over what they do, but I think that knowing you, that you aren't this turf conscious as some, that that relationship could work out, because they spend a tremendous amount of money and they're asking for 20,000 more just for 194 3/26/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080022, etc. maps to make them available. So I'd appreciate it, and if you could get back to us to let us know if anything develops as a result of that, it would be appreciated. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Okay. We will do that.
Great. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? (No response.)
There being no further questions, we thank you so much for coming in to testify. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Thank you very much.
This hearing is recessed until Monday at 10:00 a.m. (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 2:50 p.m.) 195 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 26, 2008, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)