COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON HOUSING, NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT AND THE HOMELESS City Hall, Room 400 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, March 30, 2026 12:00 p.m. PRESENT: CHAIR JAMIE GAUTHIER VICE CHAIR RUE LANDAU COUNCILWOMAN CINDY BASS COUNCILMAN MICHAEL DRISCOLL COUNCILMAN CURTIS J. JONES, JR. COUNCILMAN MARK SQUILLA COUNCILMAN NICOLAS O'ROURKE Ms. Jones, The Clerk P R O C E E D I N G S CHAIR GAUTHIER: If everyone can have a seat. We're going to get the hearing started. Good afternoon, everyone. I now note that the hour has come and this hearing is called to order. This is the public hearing of the City Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless. The purpose of this public hearing is to hear testimony on Bill 14 Nos. 250329 and 250330. Ms. Jones, would you please call the roll?
Chair Gauthier. CHAIR GAUTIER: Present. Thank you so much, Ms. Jones. Joining us is also Minority Whip Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke. I note, for the record, that a quorum of this committee is present and this hearing is now called to order. Good afternoon. Housing is the bedrock of a successful life, healthy communities and a vibrant city. So it may come as no surpise that as the places we live change, that the very thing that make Philadelphia Philadelphia is at stake. Since our last hearing the Philadelphia Coalition of Affordable Communities issued another report that confirmed how true this is. Since 2000, the medium home value rose 120 percent, while the median income in the city only rose 7 percent. One-third of Philly households still earn 35,000 a year or less. Half of all renters in our city and more than a quarter of homeowners make the impossible choice every month between paying their rent or mortgage, putting food on the table or filling their prescriptions. I am proud to be the Chair of a committee that recognizes that no one should be put in this horrible position. The stories that we've heard during our past two hearings broke my heart. And we cannot a law the broken status quo to continue. Philly's housing crisis touches every corner of our city and everyone needs to be part of comprehensive strategy to solve it. City Council has two core tenants as it relates to the issue of housing, appropriations and legislation. I'm delighted that the first $400-million this body approved for the City's initiative is on its way to Philadelphians, but H.O.M.E. on its own will not be enough. That's why this committee unanimously voted right side our landlord tenant laws and encourage us to do so today. I went to thank the members of this committee for their patience and for your commitment to Safe & Healthy Homes for every Philadelphian. I also want to thank every stakeholder on both sides for working to make these bills as effective as possible, most especially Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke, who through hurdle after hurdle has never slowed down, has never waivered in his commitment to do what is right and to deliver for Philadelphia. Councilmember, we see your hard work, we see your passion, we see your leadership, and Philadelphia owes you a debt of gratitude for it. I look forward today's discussion. Thank you so much. And I'll ask if any of my colleagues and also the bill sponsor have any opening remarks.
Thank you Chair Gauthier and thank you to my colleagues on the Housing Committee for setting aside the time to consider these bills for a third and I hope final time. Thank you genuinely also to the listening and commenting public that are here today. We are your representatives. That's the reality of the way this is set up, and therefore you deserve our attention, you deserve our consideration so I'm grateful for your being here today. Some of the tenants who join us today, who I've met and listented to through this process, know what it's like to be trapped in your own home. And I mean precisely that, trapped in your own homes. Because when you save up every penny that you can just to afford move into a rental, and then find it's unsafe or becomes that way through no fault of your own, that's what you call it. Trapped in your own home. And I want to thank Vice Chair Landau for your work on easing the cost of moving. " Friends, we live in an economy where "just move" doesn't work to actually protect the well- being of tenants. And when it is possible, it doesn't work fast enough. Since tenants can't rely on the economic freedom needed to pack up whenever an issues arises, I believe that we in government have to protect their rights to a safe and a secure living space. Because we know what can happen when that right is not protected. I've lifted her name up before and do so again today because we honor her memory when we do say her name. But I want us to recall 12-year-old, Jah'Nae Campbell, a child of Philadelphia. And if James Baldwin be true, that all the children are ours. A child of our own taken from us due to a fatality asthma attack brought on by the rampid mold in the apartment where she lived. Colleagues, we know that her fate didn't come down to a negligent landlord, but the city's delays were also the reason the repairs she needed never actually came. So as a member on Council's Committee on Licenses & Inspection and the Public Health Committee, for that matter, I want Philly to understand me when I say that that is the cost of lacking code enforcement. Death in some cases. And even when it's not as tragic as a direct matter of life and death, the human toll is still far too vast, which is why we've got to make change and why we need to do so soon. But briefly, before the committee begins to consider this legislation again, I would submit to the smaller landlords in the room 10 represented by HAPCO above all. That respectfully, I do not think you are being represented well by the people who you have been tasked with doing the important work for you and I'll tell you why. I imagine many of you are feeling the crunch from our new tax structure. I was one of the Councilmembers in fierce opposition to ending the BIRT tax exemption for small landlords and small businesses last year. And for my part it's precisely because I know how it impacts you in all of our local small business owners who are At-large. I fought for more money in the rental improvement fund so small landlords could have access to the more capital to make repairs to their homes. I've introduced the Transit Access Fund which will provide small matching grants to provide free SEPTA passes to small businesses and housing providers. In other words, I've been willing to stand with small landlords on issues that I believe that affect the bottom line. And if the folks claiming to represent you were doing the same, they would be fighting just as hard on those fronts as well, not misrepresenting a bill that is focused on the worst actors in the industry. Here, today, we are concerned with the protections that tenants can call upon when they need to based on the conditions that they are living in. Again, here, today in this hearing, we're concerned on the protections that tenants can call upon when they need to based on the conditions that they are living in. For example, it is already illegal for a landlord to collect rent without a rental license.
It is already illegal for a landlord to collect rent without a rental license. Safe Healthy Homes didn't create that. Safe Healthy Homes doesn't change that one bit. That is the law and it has been for sometime. Unfortunately this law is violated constantly. Thousands of dollars are illegally collected from renters every day. My legislation simply clarifies their rights to a refund when profits are illegally collected some might call that stolen, the party who illegally took the money needs to give it back. That is basic. That's 101 stuff. And I want to be crystal clear because I've seen misinformation being spread. This right is not able about penalizing a landlord for a mistake or something out of your control. That's not what these bills do. This is about protecting tenants from landlord who is refuse to follow the law, who neglect to apply for a license, who refuse to repair crumbling properties, who do not take the responsibility to provide Safe Healthy Homes seriously. And then all the while, collect rent from vulnerable residents and tenants. And we've worked at length, at length with small landlords stakeholders to include a safe harbor provision protecting landlords when L&I is at fault. If you didn't know that, unfortunately you have been misinformed. But this hearing ideally can be a space for clarity, there will be plenty of testimony today, and through that I believe we can discuss the real implications and the intent of these bills. So as Women's History Month actually comes to a close, today is the last day, I want to close by lifting up the names of some ladies alongside the deeply missed young Jah'Nae Campbell. Lucy Speece. History buffs will know that Ms. Speece was a resident of the old 7th Ward. B. Du Bois famously wrote about. We cheerish the culture that was fostered in that space and we know that the old 7th Ward was slumlord central. Ms. Speece lived in one such slum with her three children and tragically, they died in that same slum as well. On a cold December in 1936, their poorly maintained building collapsed. The Speece family parished along with a few neighbors. The tragedy spurred authorities to take up that eras idea of bold action to build public housing in the wake of the collapse. But it also spurred residents of the 7th Ward to organize as the Tenants League, black organizers forming the vanguard of the fight of fair and safe housing. And they certainly had some socialist among their ranks seeking renters justice as well. Today, another grass roots formation is building on the work they began six years ago, which started by knocking on doors and collecting neighbors in need of support. Now they're knocking on the doors and major change in Philadelphia and there are some names attached to that that I want to mentioned today. Names like Melissa Mont, names like Laurie Peterson, Theresa Howell and Eden Gibson, Paul Whitfield and Sonya Sanders and Janet White, just a few of the ladies of One PA Renters United Philadelphia and Philly Thrive who are collectively making history to the fights they are waging for tenants rights. I lift them up and their organizations out of appreciation and respect for your organizing. Gratitude for all the support and solidarity and hope for what we'll accomplish together. And that is meaningful protections for tenants and Safe Healthy Homes for everybody. Anything else is second best and we ain't not going for that. Thank you, Chair Gauthier, for giving me a few minutes to speak. Glory to God and power to the people. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you, Councilmember. Ms. Jones, will you now read the titles of the bills.
Bill No. 11 250329-A, an ordinance amending Chapter 9-3900 of the Philadelphia code entitled property licenses and owner accountability to clarify licensing requirements authorize the department to create a proactive inspection program require public reporting related to co-compliance and establish remedy damages and protections for tenants, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 250330-A; an ordinance amending Chapter 9-800 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled Landlord and Tenant to modify the requirements related to good cause for ending a tenancy, add protections against retaliation and harassment for tenants and tenant organizations, specified tenants' rights related to the implied warranty of habitability, and provide a legal presumption related to breaches of the implied warranty of habitability, create a tenant right to organize, specify deadlines for certain claims, and establish and enhance enforcement mechanisms, remedies, damages, and protections, all under certain terms and conditions. CHAIR GAUTHIER: The clerk will please call the first panel of witnesses to testify on the bills. I would ask that all witnesses please summarize your testimony. We have a very packed agenda today, and we'll be setting a timer for five minutes per witness at which time I'll ask you to wrap up. Please call the first panel.
Okay. Before I call the first panel, I just want to announce that there is a public comment list to my left over here for folks to sign up if they so choose. Yes, public comment list to my left for folks who haven't signed up yet. And our first panel will be Mo Rushdy, Lev Kravinsky, and Theresa Howell and Katie -- Katie Ashby. Excuse me. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Mo Rushdy. I am testifying today on Bill Nos. 250329 and 250330 on behalf of the Building Industry Association of Philadelphia. The BIA agrees with the spirit of these bills and wants to be supportive. I don't like the word “opposition” because I believe in collaboration and compromise. We are for safe and healthy homes. We as developers want to support our tenants and residents and do not want to see bad housing providers protected. The BIA has proposed five common sense amendments to these bills that we believe are true to the Bill's intent while making these bills easier to implement for all involved. First, it's allowing 60 days to cure and remove fire safety violations from rent refund requirement, Bill No. 250329-3902 Section 2(D). Amend bill current language as follows: failure by the owner to correct those code violations covered by subsection 2B(3) concerning whether the premises are free of unfit, unsafe, or imminently dangerous conditions as defined by section PM-108, PM-109, and 110 within 60 days of receiving a notice of violation, or sooner as indicated by department, shall be considered to be non-compliance with this section, except with respect to violations for where there is a pending appeal. Two, allow grace period to correct minor administrative issues, not caused by housing providers. Bill No. 250329 Section 93901 Section 4, adding a new subsection that says; administrative cure period. An owner whose rental license has expired, whose certificate of rental sustainability has lapsed due to administrative or clerical error, shall have 15 business days from notice of the department to cure the deficiency before the owner is deemed non-compliant. Three, preserve organizing rights while maintaining building security, Bill No. 250330 Section 7 98161B. Replacing the subsection with new language as follows: any tenant organizer must follow all building access and security policies of a residential rental accommodation provided they are applied equally to all non-residents. Four, balance the tenant protections with the practical realities of housing operations as New York City adding new language as follows, that the good cause requirements for the subsection shall apply only to tenants who have continuously occupied residential units for 12 months or longer. This subsection will not apply to owner occupied properties containing four or fewer dwelling units, single family homes or condominium units owned by individuals who own fewer than five residential units and residential units constructed within the previous years. 8 Five, allow time for 9 educational efforts to ensure 10 compliance. Both bills should be amended to have an effective date of 1/1/2027. These are reasonable amendments that if adopted will maintain the legislative intent, which I completely agree with Councilman Nick O'Rourke and what he had discussed in terms of intent while allowing housing providers and developers some flexibility and thus not discouraging them from providing badly needed housing in our city. And thank you for your consideration. Thank you, Madam Chair. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your testimony.
In your opinion order, author of this legislation, if any of these amendments that were stated for the record materially impact the intent of this law? CHAIR GAUTHIER: I will allow the bill sponsor to speak to that.
Thank you, Mr. Jones -- member Jones for the question. I was just actually having a discussion with my staff here about some of what we heard just lifted up by Mr. Rushdy. I think all of these we have actually had been discussion about already. The first one was about the fire code. There's a major concern around the idea of extending cure times for things that would be -- that would qualify for fire code. The thing -- if we're talking about creating safe, healthy homes the idea that it would -- that you should have longer period of time for something that could endanger your livelihood because if your fire -- your house could catch on fire is a major concern for us. But the other four that were lifted up, we have actually we're actually a discussion to clarify, because I think there's some misunderstanding, at least, in the first two about the bills. And then the last one is something that we are interested in looking at potentially as well, but of course this remains to be true that we are open to talking with folks, to hear things that are, that they believe create unintended harm to small landlords as long as it does not get at the core of our bill. So we would have to have a discussion about at least two of those because I think it misunderstands what the legislation is actually doing.
I did not hear from the author to bill 18 that it was materially impactful to the implementation of this law. So I'm hoping that what we can keep is a dialogue going so that we can move this through and it -- that it can be a win-win situation. That it doesn't always have to be opposition to -- so whether you talk about places like Brith Sholom, that bill 3 I wish would've been involved during that time, but those owners did not have good intention. Those owners were predatory; those owners took $35 thousand -- million worth of equity out, did not make one improvement over years, not 30 days, not 60 days; years. And took in and pocketed that, and now are facing criminal charges, which I think is a good ending to that story. What I am advocating for, some of the mom and pops, some of the folk that took their investments that I know -- that members of this body know that were worked all their life at the post office and invested in mom's property and started renting. We have to protect them too. And if not, what we'll have is big companies that don't give a damn about Philadelphia come in, invest and do harmful things to the tenants. So I always try to encourage that kind of dialogue so that we come up with a good public policy that the bill's intentions are there to do, but does no harm. Does no harm. Thank you, Madam Chair. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you, Councilmember. And it seems like the bill sponsor is very willing to continue those conversations. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon. My name is Lev Kravinsky. I am here representing the Pennsylvania Apartment Association, an association of property management companies representing over 300,000 apartments in Pennsylvania. Thank you Chairman Gauthier and thank you, bill 3 sponsor, Nicolas O'Rourke for both having this hearing and Nick in particular for proposing this bill, which I think truly has the best of intents and if properly amended should have tremendous positive effects on our city. To be clear, the Apartment Association is firmly committed to promoting safe, well-maintained housing for every resident. We believe achieving that goal requires policies that are clear, enforceable and balanced, ensuring resident protections while enabling responsible housing providers to continue to build and manage housing in our communities. Nonetheless, our association continues to have serious concerns with this bill, and I will lay out three particular clear issues. One, as the bill currently reads, any resident can request a certificate of rental suitability at any time during the tenancy. And if the housing provider cannot provide one within business days, they 7 cannot collect rent. Yet obtaining 8 a certificate of rental suitability 9 is not possible if there are any 10 violations on the rental license, no 11 matter how small or tactical in nature. And note that rental licenses are linked to entire buildings, not apartments. So a single tactical violation, for instance, an overflowing dumpster, a baby carriage -- a stroller which is left in a hallway, which is a fire code violation. A single violation of that nature would allow every resident, let's say for example, of a hundred-unit apartment building to request a CRS, which is not possible to obtain. And then when the CRS is not supplied, not pay rent. That's a major, major concern. And I think it's not the intent of the bill, but I think it's a practical effect. And I believe that there are tactical amendments you could make, which would improve that issue. The second example, and this is an example that I've talked about quite a bit with Councilmember O'Rourke's office, the bill as it currently reads, requires that housing providers comply with HUD, EPA, and ANSI regulations concerning dust, mold, lead paint, asbestos, and other building materials. I have not seen much discussion of this clause, but I think it is an important one. HUD, EPA, and ANSI regulations are hundreds of pages of regulations not currently contained in the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code. In many cases, there are contradictory regulations with different methods of remediation for the building materials they cover. And in the case of ANSI, they're not even freely available regulations. You cannot access them online. You must pay ANSI a subscription fee to access the regulations that are shoe horned into this bill. Finally, I'll make a point on safe harbors. And I think Mo touched on this a bit with his comment on cure periods. Our intent here is not to lessen penalties or punishments for those truly bad actors who are taking advantage of the power imbalance in the tenant's relationship with their housing provider. But I do believe that housing providers require safe harbors for legitimate good faith situations beyond their control. For instance, did you know that only percent of L&I 4 violations are cleared within 30 5 days largely due to L&I's scheduling 6 constraints. Seventy-five percent 7 of violations take more than a month 8 to clear. In my opinion, a housing 9 provider who is acting in good faith 10 to remedy issues that have caused a 11 violation, meaning that they have 12 engaged a contractor, they're 13 working with a city to identify 14 solutions to the problem. 15 Those folks should not be 16 penalized with significant fines and 17 penalties as laid out in this bill.
18 In summary, these bills 19 require serious good faith 20 amendments to address the issues 21 that I have raised and others that 22 the association has raised. For 23 this reason, I urge the 24 Councilmembers present today to hold these bills until they can be amended so as to not upend the property management industry. I truly believe that protecting tenants is not at odds with regulating property management. I do not believe that those two are mutually exclusive. And I think that with good faith tactical amendments to these bills, the housing industry can get behind them and support Councilmember O'Rourke's admiral goals. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today and look forward to continued dialogues with the committee and the sponsor. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your testimony. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Teresa Howell. Good morning, members of the housing committee, our Chair, Councilmember Gauthier and Vice Chair, Councilmember Rue Landau. Reaching this point require considerable effort and support, including from Councilmembers present here today. We know you heard us and we appreciate that. We are not here to take up all your time. I just want to clarify a few things. These bills are the bare minimum for landlords to follow. Living in unsafe conditions, even for one day, is traumatic for tenants. If you ever had experienced it, you know how hard it is to go even one day without heat, with no water to drink or wash, no working stove to cook or fire hazards or the leaks in your bathroom. It seemed like 30 days is too much time to wait to have these things fixed and now they want 60 days. I had to deal with infestation of rats, raccoons, leaks, mold, and the child in my home ended up with lead poisoning. My kitchen is currently leaking right now, but my rent is paid and owe the landlord nothing. Even one day with these conditions can impact our family's health. To have to survive for 30 days seems unreasonable. So these bills are the -- these bills are the bare minimum to protect human rights to a safe and healthy home. If a landlord is illegally collecting rent without providing a safe home, they should not be able to keep our money. They should not be able to -- they should not -- we should not have to pay for our own demise. Renters are afraid to speak up for fear of retaliation. Many of us are terrified to report dangerous conditions because right now, landlords can make us homeless without even a cause. They don't even have to have a call to evict us. Now you imagine a family that's been living in a home for years. 8 Children are honorable students, 9 they are invested in their 10 community, and then the landlord says with no reason at all, I want to uproot your family and make you move. There is nothing on the book that can stop him from doing that. Okay. So the parents can recover. What happens to those children? Will they ever recover? You take a child out of their environment after they've been raising that environment, it changed the child forever. And they may not never get back to that A-one status that they were when they were in the home that was safe and healthy that the landlord decided without a cause to just put them out of. I don't think landlords should have that much power. I am not the only one that has lived with these conditions. I need the people in here that have lived with these conditions to just raise their hand. I'm going to raise mine because I have lived with some horrible conditions. Have you ever lived without heat, hot water, leaks, mold, pest, unable to get repairs from your landlord? We've all lived without that. Councilmembers, we appreciate you hearing us, our cries about our egregious landlords, but it's a shame that we have to reach out to our council people in order to get results when the laws on the books are supposed to protect us. This is why we need the Safe and Healthy Homes Act. The time is now. I ask Council to follow through and pass the legislation out of committee today. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your testimony. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Hello. My name is Katie Ashby and I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak again today. I will reiterate my testimony from a few weeks ago because I want you to again see the realities of these bills. I want you to see what tenants are actually living with currently, and I want you to understand that this is not an abstract discussion. We need these bills passed for a reason. Shortly after I moved into my current apartment, I discovered that what I believed to be a larger section of water damage on my bedroom ceiling was actually an active leak that my landlord had simply painted over. I notified my landlord as soon as I noticed and when they ignored my initial maintenance request, I notified them again and then again. Eventually, black mold began to form and rapidly took over my carpet, walls, ceiling, and baseboards. The plaster on my ceiling started buckling under the leak and began falling off in chunks, which exposed even more mold as well as open holes that centipedes would crawl out of. Over months I begged my landlord to remediate the mold and fix the leak. I explained that I was an asthmatic, I was experiencing health issues due to the mold, but continually my request fell on deaf ears. Three months after my initial maintenance request with mold still covering my bedroom and no end in sight, I was forced to hire a lawyer. Suddenly, the issues were repaired. Had there been a proactive inspection program at the time, I wouldn't have been forced to spend money I didn't have in order to have a lawyer advocate on my behalf. After this experience, I connected with my neighbors and realized that I was not unique. In addition to leaks and mold, my neighbors are dealing with bricks and concrete falling off of the facade, heat and hot water that would sometimes be out for months, roaches and mice infesting their apartments and if management bothered to respond to resident complaints at all, it was often insufficient. Last year alone, our landlord was handed 50 violations from L&I, and the city even placed a lien on the property for unpaid work relating to one of these violations. Despite all of this, they've been allowed to renew their rental license. They have continued to sign certificates of rental suitability with these open violations and new -- and they maintain the highest eviction rate in the city. Together, my neighbors and I decided the only way to advocate for ourselves against these absentee landlords was collectively. And early last year, we formed a tenant union. Unfortunately, due to this organizing effort, my landlord is now retaliating against me by refusing to renew my lease, forcing me to leave my home and my community. I'm lucky enough to know my rights and to have friends in this city who have provided me with more help than I can describe, but most Philadelphians don't have this luxury. So without this legislation, where are they in my situation? For too long, we've allowed negligent absentee corporate landlords to use Philadelphians as a stepping stone to increase their already substantial personal profit. It's long past time to prioritize our communities and focus our attention and empathy on your constituents. Despite the transparent lies of the landlord lobby, there are no downsides to these bills. If you are in any way negatively impacted by these bills, then your property is unsafe, and your poor business practices should not be allowed to affect tenants. Diluting these bills only protects landlords and negatively impacts tenants. We previously heard L&I state that their proactive rental inspection program has already been created and will move forward regardless. Now we need you to ensure the remainder of this legislation will become a reality. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you all for your testimony. Are there questions or comments from the panel -- from the committee members for this panel? Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to wait till all the panelists spoke before providing just a few points of clarification from some previous testimony if I may. Responding first to Mr. -- what Mr. Kravinsky said and to clarify the actual language of the bills and how they would apply. First, a stroller in the hallway is a fire code violation, it's also something that could be fixed in five minutes. There's no 3 reason why it would hold up a licensing process. And so I want to make sure that we are, like, adding some context to what we mean when we say this. Second, Mr. Kravinsky mentioned that percent of L&I 10 violations are cured on time. This 11 is exactly why we created a safe 12 harbor that protects landlords from 13 consequences when L&I delays are the 14 reason why they can't comply. It 15 was for that reason. Both of these 16 concerns are not relevant to our 17 bills, but thank you for raising 18 them. 19 And I think thirdly, 20 Mr. Kravinsky brought up the 21 challenge of meeting HUD 22 regulations, which are referenced in 23 the bill. And we talked about this 24 twice in the last two weeks, I think, in particular. I want to be clear that I added mention of HUD and EPA regulations at Mr. Kravinsky's request, and he has acknowledged that already. And I know that they're asking us to make changes again to revert back to a previous version of the bills. I've been working in good faith and this feels like a little bit of whiplash if I'm being honest. I just want to note how some of these requests really just feel like delay tactics to impede us from passing tenant protections. But, you know, we will continue to engage, as I have said from before as I'm saying today, in good faith to make sure that we remove any unintended harm and make sure that we are getting the actual goal of the bills. Thank you so much.
-- a couple of seconds to respond. Yeah. So I -- I'll just make the point on the bill requiring housing providers to comply with HUD, EPA, and ANSI regulations. I think it's a slight mischaracterization to say that I requested that language and that I'm now requesting it be taken out. The original bill stated that housing providers would comply with all applicable industry standards. I pointed out that there are no clear applicable industry standards that would apply in this situation. And the sponsor put in the standards of HUD, EPA, and ANSI, which are three separate conflicting regulatory bodies with hundreds of pages of regulation on these matters. So I don't agree with that statement. Second comment on strollers, you could say it's easy to correct. Unfortunately, in the current bill, there is no safe harbor for tenant obstruction. So if we get a violation because -- fire code violation because somebody has left their stroller in the hallway, we tell them to remove it or we even, you know, put it in their apartment ourselves - one of our maintenance guys does. If they put it back out, doesn't matter. There's no safe harbor in the bill currently, that's still an active violation. We can't collect rent; if we collect rent, we have to return that rent. So I want to engage in, you know, good-faith dialogue here. And again, I think we can cover these issues with minor tactical changes, but I don't think it's accurate to construe my words in the way that the Councilmember has. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Thank you for your response. These sound like the type of issues that could be talked about after today. I believe that the bill sponsor said that he was willing -- very briefly, and then I would like to move on.
Right. Madam Chair, thank you so much. So to Councilmember O'Rourke, for the testimonies we just heard now and these examples of people living with mold and people living with leaks, I'm a hundred percent on your side. I am -- unfortunately, I know it's a perception issue, but I am. Okay? So no one should live in that. And if you have informed the landlord and they are not taught -- taking these procedures to fix that, okay, that is wrong. Okay? It is wrong and we do not support landlords. We don't -- we do not support. You don't know me, so I'm telling you we don't. Okay. So we do not support -- sure. I was just responding to Councilmember O'Rourke's bill. So I just want you to know that we're truly not going after the intent of the bill at all. We're talking about technical differences, changes that we understand the city we live in, we understand the limitations, okay, of some of the agencies and the limitations and what the unintended consequences especially are on the smaller guys. I have built over 2,000 units. When I have a problem, we attend to it the same day because I run the risk of someone leaving and never coming and leasing again. It's the exact opposite problem. The issue is going to be with a lot of the smaller guys that do not have the means, okay, to get on that. And for the most part, believe it or not, they're not members of ours, but we understand the industry and what it can cause, an -- unintended consequences. Thank you for the time. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you all for your testimony. We are now going to move on to the public comment list. We ask that all commenters limit their testimony to two minutes. and if you have submitted written testimony, please summarize. Ms. Jones, can you please call the names of the first three commenters?
Good afternoon. Thanks for having me today. I just want to say a couple -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please state your name for the record.
Oh, Diane Thompson. Okay. Again, thanks for having me. Real quickly, I am a landlord and I'm also a tenant. So I understand from both sides. When the young lady said things that happened to her with the ceiling falling in, that's terrible. But I can honestly say that this bill 11 affects people who were not bad landlords. And I had an infestation in one of my buildings, I didn't know about it until it was already full blown. My tenant agreed that she didn't call and let me know in time. As I was in the midst of dealing with it, I had an inspection -- an inspection, of course, I failed the inspection. Now had that been a license, you know, L&I inspection, she would've been able to withhold rent and who -- and that particular thing was going to take longer than 30 days to fix. So in the meantime, fines could have been sued and everything else. And I was in good faith dealing with that and did not even know about it until after the fact. So this can affect good landlords as well, and I just want you guys to understand that. Secondly, as a tenant, I had lived in apartment -- just recently in February. We had the coldest February in 10 years, and the heat broke. And I did not have any heat in my apartment for almost two weeks. Because I'm a landlord, I understand this was not negligence. Sometimes things break, and just because you have a leak, it doesn't mean that you're a bad person. And just because you have a failure in a utility, it doesn't mean you're a bad landlord. Now, that was -- and the landlord remediated the rent without any kind of legal action necessary. So what I'm saying is sometimes you can work something out, you don't need to have legal action happen immediately. And as a landlord, I appreciated the fact that my tenant allowed me the time to work out that infestation. And I appreciated the fact that my landlord remediated rent and negotiated with us -- without us having to take legal action as well. So I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Bill Vargas, I'm a landlord. Thank you all for being here today. When I testified against this bill back on March 4th, I talked about how I went into a property with a -- with a lead paint guy so we could renew my license. And we were surrounded and threatened by people who came to the house for that very purpose, to keep us from getting that test done. And my testimony went viral on social media. I heard from so many landlords who have had situations where they've either been threatened or physically assaulted while trying to do what the city mandates that they should do. That's not the part that Mr. O'Rourke tells you about. In -- under the current situation, you could be actually assaulted and prevented from doing what you need to do. And then the tenant can go into court and say, well, he didn't have his rental license, and the judge will buy it. Under his bill, it'll be even worse. Tenants won't want you to make repairs. They will prevent you from making repairs and then they will turn around -- thank you, thank you. They will physically present -- prevent you, and then they'll go into court, because now L&I will not revoke your license. They'll go into court and they'll sue you. They will physically assault you, then they'll be able to sue you. That's how crazy this bill is. Now, I know -- I know a landlord who everywhere he goes, whenever he goes on one of his properties, he carries a gun because one time he was innocently collecting rent. There was six guys in the back room, they jumped him, they beat him so badly, he was in the hospital for six months and almost died. So now wherever he goes, he carries the gun. So you pass this bill, that's the kind of thing that's going to become commonplace. And so therefore, if you pass this bill, someone will get killed. So if you don't want someone killed, you need to kill this bill. And -- thank you. Listen, I'm not -- I'm not trying to -- I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush. I'm not saying that all tenants are bad. Thanks. Thank you, sir. I'm not -- I'm not saying that all tenants are bad-- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Please wrap up.
Most tenants are good -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Your two minutes is completed --
Okay. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Okay. Will the clerk please call the name of the next three commenters?
Gareth Evans, German Yaskava, and Reverend Greg Holson. CHAIR GAUTHIER: If you are in the room and you heard your name called, please come up to the desk.
Good afternoon. My name is Reverend Gregory Holston. I'm the Executive Director of Destination. I have some remarks, but I'm confused by what I've been hearing. If the realtors cared so much about this issue, why wouldn't they have put their own legislation in years ago? Why do they want to stop something now that this council person has put in and this committee wants to move forward with when they had years to try to address this issue? I would think the real -- the realtor association or the renters' association -- I mean, not renter association, the property owners have the legal means and the legal knowledge to be able to address this issue years ago. But also I'm concerned because yes, I hear about the small landlords and what they're going through, and we do need to do something about that kind of situation that Bill Vargas just described. But we can go forward with this piece of legislation and address that with some support and some help. But the problem is he's worried about who -- what people may get killed and not enough about the people who are already dying. The reality is that child lead paint, which he was going to correct, and I give him credit for trying to correct it, most landlords are not correcting. And we are seeing that poison toxin in our children for year after year after year after year. We have all done studies of those on Street Road who have been involved in gun violence and found out that many of them had the toxin of lead paint in their bodies that affected -- that caused permanent brain damage to them. And on some of the reasons we have the violence in our community today that we have, we have never effectively addressed lead paint in our homes, in our communities. And if this bill will allow some folk to be able to say I -- without retaliation, with a sense that they are a remediation can be done, a safe -- a place where they can be able to go while it's being taken care of. If this will give them the courage to say, landlord, get this lead paint out of my apartment, then I'm a hundred percent for it because I'm trying to save some children and some babies that are in our schools today. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Please wrap up your comment. I need you to wrap up your comment. Thank you so much.
Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Will the clerk please call the next three public commenters?
Nate Roundtree, Federica Lightfoot, Sue Rocksandich. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, my name is Frederica Lightfoot. Rich rising everyone. I'd like to share a quote, maybe one or two. An empty barrel makes the most noise, and a guilty conscience needs no accuser. The Safety Homes Act has definitely ruffled some feathers, which shows how complacent they have become. Stand in your discomfort. Thanks to Councilman Member O'Rourke and all the other parties involved for initiating this act, it is so long overdue. And I am speaking from experience, I have shared this years ago about how the landlords are negligent and -- when it comes to repairs. It's needed for the oppressed people. Tenants, let's stand up. Let's get up. Let's stand up for our rights. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comments. Proceed. State -- please state your name and proceed.
Hi, I'm Sue RockSandich, everybody calls me Rocky. I am a landlord. I'm a small landlord. I'm a retired nurse after 46 years of it, and I've probably been a landlord longer than some of these people in here have ever been on the earth. Anyway, first off, I love my tenants and what I want to know from Council as a small landlord is, what have you done for me lately? I have my tenants -- my tenants are all, frankly, I -- they're under market in terms of what they're paying. And I love a clean home. I tell the tenants when I -- when I first interview someone, I say - and when I get my places ready, I personally I am on my hands and knees cleaning it with every -- with my -- with my people, and I'm there to do a turnover. First off, there is no incentive for a small landlord or self-managing landlord. There is no incentive to evict a patient -- tenant, I'm sorry, patient, back to nursing -- to evict a tenant. Because I'm not -- a turnover cost a ton of money. And as a small landlord, I don't own an apartment complex with 30 units, each one being a one bedroom. I own a three-bedroom rural home, which was dilapidated; I bought, renovated, and I make nice for my -- for my tenants. I appreciate a safe, healthy home. But years ago, you all got rid of a mediation program. And I think frankly, if you want to help out with regard to the small landlords, remove us from all these little got-you's that you're doing and aiming at the large consortiums that have people who are not vested in their neighborhood. I had a tenant years ago, I -- when -- before I knew how to screen, she let feral cats into the basement of 24 the home. And -CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please wrap up your comment.
Pardon me? CHAIR GAUTHIER: Two minutes is up. Can you please wrap your comment.
Okay. Basically, what I'm saying is what we need is something where we can call and get immediate action when we go into one of our properties and the tenant is living in there in a filthy manner, so that we can address it before it becomes an absolute, absolute disgrace. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you --
We need that backup -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment --
And as far as lead is concerned, it's a small thing, but lead; we already need that to get our rental license. Why does it have to be -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment today. Will the clerk please call the next few public commenters?
Eileen Gray, Brenda Simons, Ethan Kalathil, Brown Colburn. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is Brenda Simons, and I am a Philadelphia resident, a block captain, and a small business landlord. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. First, let -- give me one moment because I did want to say something specific. First, I need to thank the staff of Councilman Curtis Jones' office for their valuable assistance whenever called upon. Josh Cohen and Gail Young have been very responsive to me as a small business landlord. I want to begin by saying clearly that safe and healthy housing is important to all of us. Good landlords want safe homes just as much as good tenants do. We all share the same goals; stable housing, safe communities, and strong neighborhoods. However, I respectfully want to share the perspective of small landlords, many of whom are not large corporations. Many of us are seniors, retirees, or working families who own one or two properties and rely on that income simply to maintain those homes and support ourselves. And even before the new legislation, navigating the system is already very challenging. For example, I have been a small business landlord for more than years. However, this year, it took me months to renew my business license. I was bounced between 311, eCLIPSE, L&I, and the Revenue Department and back to the same departments repeatedly. I have the dates, names, and emails and the departments to prove it. Only when I called Councilman Curtis Jones' office and spoke with Josh Cohen were these things, these problems finally addressed. That experience demonstrates how time consuming and difficult compliance can be, especially for small landlords -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'm sorry. Thank you for your comment. If you could please wrap, your two minutes is up. I can give you like 10 seconds, but please wrap up.
Okay. Let me just -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: We also do have your full written testimony --
I know, but there's something that I did want to say, okay? Unfortunately, those landlords that have -- whose tenants have good things to say are not adequately represented here and in this legislation. Okay? I want the just share, for the record, okay? One of my -- I just want to share something because we can't -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Very briefly please so that everyone can have a chance to comment.
One of my tenants said my landlord was the best landlord and we were blessed to have her as a landlord. My other tenant who was the current tenant said small -CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Everyone was eligible to come here and comment. Tenants could have come and said good things about their landlords, too. Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Eileen Gray, and I thank you for letting me testify today. I've been a landlord for 37 years. I've lived in - so I'm also a realtor for 15 years, and I've lived in 16 Philadelphia and voted in 17 Philadelphia my entire life. 18 I just wanted to let you 19 know that over 37 years of being a 20 landlord, I finally have gotten a 21 team of people that can repair 22 things in a pretty timely manner. 23 That's our -- one of our -- one of 24 the main -- one of the problems with our existence as landlords is getting -- get contractors out in a timely manner. And that's what my concern is about this bill. The other thing is, and I know everybody wants to blame landlords, but my tenants know I love my tenants, and I've had them for a very long time. And they basically get their repairs done. I get them done as timely as I can. Oftentimes it's not on my time -- timeframe, the contractors do it their own way. But I just wanted to state that this bill that's being proposed, it's not really helping to solve the problem with bad landlords. We have a lot of bad landlords in the city, and I think the tenants have the power to correct this. You have the power right now without this bill. You should be -- your leases should be 75 plus pages. If you don't have 75 pages in your leases, you have an illegal landlord and you should definitely demand that. You should have all the forms that are required already by the laws of the City of Philadelphia. You really need to do that. If you do, your landlord will have to abide by the laws and will be able to present you with decent housing. And that's the goal of every landlord. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes. So I just -- as I said, by addressing the illegal landlord, since they're not licensed, the City of Philadelphia is, I estimate at low 10,000, I'd say, landlords in City of Philadelphia are not licensed right now. That's $690,000 that could be put back in the city's pocket. I mean, we need to police the landlords, and the only people who can police them are the tenants. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment.
Okay. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
I'm Ethan Kalathil. I was here, testified last time. I've been a landlord for 30 years. Bought my building from my landlord; it's a triplex, I've been staying in there for 30 years. In 2025, I was surprised to see my taxes go up by $6,000, 230 percent increase, you know, and it's really hard for people to adjust to those kind of things. I'm talking to many landlords who can't be here. And in the past 20 years, my taxes with the other buildings, everything, I've seen going up 500 percent. Same with insurance, utilities, labor, building materials, inspection, all have increased 200 to 300 percent. And what I'm struggling to understand is, if I'm struggling to offer affordable housing by having all these regulations, paperwork, constantly changing rules, and complex regulation, it's going to make compliance so hard for landlords. Even who have been there for 37 years like this lady over here. So again, I'm really confused how regulations that kill affordability for landlords, trying to provide decent housing, can lead to affordable housing for tenants. You know, they -- this is a pass for overregulation and destroying affordable housing. Only large landlords can spread the high operating costs over many units and figure out how to gain the system and will survive. The result is removing all the smaller landlords, no more smaller landlords just come in because they -- it's so much harder to deal with the bureaucracy. So I'm basically -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Could you please wrap -- thank you for your comments.
So I'm basically would like to say that there are bad landlords and bad tenants. Expanding the right of bad tenants is not solving the problem. And overregulating the good landlords is not solving the problem. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment today. Please state -- move closer to the mic or pull the mic closer and state your name for the record and proceed.
Thank you. Good morning. My name is Dawn Colburn. Good morning, Councilmembers, spectators, and participators. I live in Councilman Phillips' District. I also want to thank you for bringing us this far for the vote. And before joining Renters United PA, my stinking thinking told me it was okay for others to fight my legal battles, mainly because growing up in the streets, battles were fought differently. I aged gracefully and part of me still carried that stinking thinking. I noticed there were particular members of today's society that wasn't mentioned too much regarding housing. Maybe it didn't pertain to me at the time, so I didn't hear it. But since then, gracefully aged, I feel different. Mental illness and autism is a very big part of society today. They no longer have to live in a back room of their family homes; they can live independently. For this, we need landlords to provide safe, healthy environments and for them to be accountable for their property. For example, don't paint over mold and properly treat it, don't put a band aid over a gunshot. Holes need to be attended to correctly, so mold won't come back and holes don't get bigger. Landlords follow with, it wasn't like that before they moved in. I plead for you Councilmembers to vote yesterday for Safe, Healthy Homes. Some of us don't know how to correctly use our words or scared if we do the repercussions that followed, I believe in my God's grace and mercy, you will vote yes today. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Thanks to all of you. Will the clerk please call the next few public commenters?
Brian Bachman, Greg Workman, Seth Floyd, Brian Jackson. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, everyone. For the record, my name is Seth Floyd. I'm here to testify in regards to the Safe, Healthy Homes Bill. I'm a homeowner, a constituent of Councilman Jones' district. I'm an experienced landlord, years, licensed real 19 estate broker for 21 years. I 20 mostly represent tenants 21 transitioning from home -- from 22 rental into home ownership. I also 23 represent tenants who want to move 24 into rental properties. I also have the pleasure of representing landlords. My question; what are we doing here? With the intention of the bill being safe, healthy homes and there being no opposition to actually having safe, healthy homes, passing this type of legislation seem like it would be a layup. Hit the easy button. There is not one person in this room, I mean, no one that doesn't want safe homes for Philadelphia. Nobody. Yet somehow this committee was able to motivate all the subject matter experts and stakeholders out from their busy days to come here today at City Hall for almost the last year. How is that? I'm going to tell you very briefly. First, the title of this bill is great, but the language needs work. We've been here three times for a reason, is that we spend a lot of time with the bill sponsor and the committee members about trying to get these amendments in, every time to not have them amended. Every time come here with the same thing that we got with response from Councilman Curtis's request. Every time, the response is, we are going to work on that, hey, we're going to implement that. Hey, give us a little time. Hey, those are great talking points, let's talk about it. I'm going to tell you this, I've met with O'Rourke more times than I can count. I've met with Kate more times than I can count. I've walked in City Hall the last few months, more times than I can count. You know how many amendments came from all the attorneys and GPCA and the Association of Realtors and HAPCO and the PP -- and the PAA? How very little, almost nothing of substance. The reason that we're here is not because we want to, it's because we have to. There is a risk to our business. And -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you --
-- what I'm saying to you is -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please take a few seconds and wrap up, but the two minutes is up.
We are -- we are here to keep the balance of the ecosystem. That is our job. We have licenses; we have a career. We work in this space for a living. We protect the tenant, we make this process work. And if you don't listen to us, I don't know who you will listen to. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, my name is Brian Brodman. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak about this law. I have years 7 experience as a handyman and rental 8 manager. I became alert of the law 9 after I saw it had been delayed in 10 its passage and was alarmed by some 11 of the more punitive penalties that 12 are in it, and that were outlined 13 earlier on by the renters. 14 My -- based on my 15 experience, I want to warn that this law will have the opposite of the desired effect. In most cases, it will lead to an increase in rent and less affordable apartments. It will only accelerate the selling of units by smaller landlords to larger corporate landlords who can afford to stay on top of the extra paperwork burden and know how to navigate the bureaucracy. I have already seen three of my clients either sell out to larger management companies or make preparations to convert to luxury condos. Smaller landlords who have personal relationships with their customers, smaller landlords who keep rents lower under market value because they value a good tenant over a high margin. In contrast, larger companies of higher operating costs ruthlessly seek the highest market rate and often employ large rent increases after the first year, banking on people's aversion to move. It'll also reward the worst tenants who would take advantage of any loophole in bad faith at the expense of 99 percent of tenants who follow the rules. It'll make landlords more hesitant to rent the people with marginal credit or check a renter's history and bad renters could take advantage. In the end, good people with bad credit will struggle to find housing. So please don't trade our local housing for corporate paperwork. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Will the clerk please call the next names -- the next few names of the next public commenter?
Tyrese Rogers, Erica Hadley, Kevin Wright, Mark Roche. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Kevin Wright. And my comment is that the City of Philadelphia, in my opinion, creating these rules or weaponizing license and inspection will drive the small landlord out of business. We are -- we are over -- we are overregulated before; we're going to be overregulated now. We have high taxes, high insurance costs, trash fees, and we will be out of business soon. And as a result, we will be out of business, and we will sell our properties to people who can afford these onerous bills. We try to rent the people. We don't want tenants leaving. When we rent the people and they don't pay our rent, we go to -- we go to tenant court -- Landlord-Tenant Court. It takes six to nine months to get somebody out of your property. In my mind, there is no 20 incentive for some tenants to pay their rent. We -- we're older and we have mortgages on our properties, we have mortgages on the rental properties. We are -- we do the maintenance; we do the rentals. We do everything necessary to make our tenants -- most of us, make our tenants happy. And my -- it seems to me that the City of Philadelphia hates small business. And I know the people here, the tenant groups; they believe this is a good thing. And I understand that. But when you -- when you -- when we get out of the business, because we are -- we -- I think we rent to maybe the smaller landlord -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: And I'm going to have to ask that you wrap up your --
Okay. I'll wrap it up. But the wrap up is the city -- the city doesn't help us at all. Never. They -- they've never helped us, they never try to help us. And the city has a reputation of being a bad -- being bad for business. It is difficult to do business in the City of Philadelphia. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, Councilmembers. My name is Erica Hadley. I am a small landlord here in Philadelphia. I'm a Black woman and a mother trying to raise -- to build a suitable future for my children. I didn't come into this with a big company behind me. I started with my family, one property at a time, to create something suitable, not just for me, but for my children. I'm not a big multimillion dollar business. I'm not a small, corrupt, deep pocket billionaire. I am what 73 percent of landlords in the City of Philadelphia actually look like. I care about my tenants. I try to work with people. I try to get second chances when I can. But I'm here today because I need you to understand what this really looks like for someone like me. I've had tenants who cost me thousands of dollars, not because I neglected my responsibility, but because the system allowed situations to spiral out of control. And in one case, I had accepted a tenant through a program to help her and her children transition out of a shelter. I wanted -- I wanted to help. I believe in giving a chance -- someone a chance. At first, things were fine, then the problem started. There were constant complaints from my other tenants. There were unoccupied -- unauthorized occupants, and repeated disturbances. I addressed every issue the tenants raised. Every maintenance concern was handled promptly when she complained of were pets -- pests in the property, I had professional help come immediately. Despite that, she stopped paying rent. Then the real problems began. She filed repeated complaints with License and Inspection and Fair Housing, often right before court dates and before inspections. Access to the property was blocked. New claims were -- came up to the property listing like glass leak -- gas leak that turned out to be minor or unfounded, but still delayed everything. This went on for over a year. Even after I went in court, she appealed, and delays continued. During that time, I still -- I was still paying my mortgage, utilities, repairs, and legal fees across multiple attorneys. I lost a year of rent and ultimately had to pay her to leave my property just to get it back. In another situation, I had a tenant who caused repeated disruptions, made complaints of the building and other residents. At one point -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: And I'm going to have to ask you briefly wrap up.
Okay. I tried to be patient, I tried to be understanding. And this is -- this is what happens for people like me. Good people, I try to be someone -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for coming today and for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment. Go ahead.
My name is Mark Roche. I'm a small landlord. After the last meeting, one of the tenants' representatives asked me to rent from me, and she's a tenant of me now. My rent are about $1000, I have seven units. I built them -- the block. I said it last time, I could not sleep at night, if there would be conditions like there has been brought up here, that would never happen in my housing. Never. I am fully for Safe and Healthy Homes. Let's get bad landlords out of the city and out of business. Period. Yeah. However, Mr. O'Rourke, you used the term “trapped,” and I'm my deepest and confound knowledge of housing 21 years, this bill will trap tenants 22 the most. This bill will trap 23 people looking for housing the most. 24 And it's very simple why over the past, many, many years longer than I'm here, regulations increased, bureaucracy increased, and the city agencies and the sheriff don't do their job as they are supposed to. And if this bill passes, again, more people will leave. Lenders leave the city already, all of you will have to pay more. Insurances has left the city already. Stop this; make it bad for bad landlords and help the good landlords to finally solve this issue. If this bill passes, the large corporate guys from New York City, they will be in business way and way more. This can be done so much better, please talk to us. Please maybe take the small landlords out of all of this. But if it goes the way it's presented here, the tenants and the most vulnerable people will suffer the most. Yeah. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment.
And my -- and my last sentence is, if small landlords leave the city, go to the other counties or give their money to Fidelity and Charles Schwab, and others, nobody, nobody wins. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Okay. Good morning, everyone. My name is Tyrese Rogers. My zip code is 19124. And for the smaller landlords or anybody, I'm sorry if you are having issues trying to get rid of bad tenants, but for the most part, this is a very small portion of people that have issues with the landowners. But like, no, this is not -- it is time for this to stop. We're going to pass this bill. Safe, Healthy Homes for everybody. I woke up last November living 60 years, and landlords have been here longer than I have been alive. It's time for this to stop. Safe, Healthy Homes for all. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters?
Camille Pearsall, Victor Hireman, Melissa Moss. Jacob Domi, Holanda --
Good afternoon. My name is Jacob Domi. I'm a responsible landlord and I have been operating in Philadelphia for about 20 years. Throughout the time, I have run my business in full compliance with the city and federal regulations. When I learned about this proposed bill, I became very concerned. Being a landlord lately comes with many challenges. The eviction process alone can take up to six months, followed by additional time, often about two months for repair for the property. I believe this bill may -- this bill 12 might place an unfair burden to the landlord, potentially discouraging responsible property owners from continuing on this business. In the long term, that could negatively impact the quality of housing in our city. I have a question for the Councilmember. Do you direct experience with landlord- tenant relationship, especially the challenges landlords face in maintaining the property and enforcing lease agreement? Regarding automatic rent abatement, I had a situation where I was in the process of a evicting a tenant. During that time, the tenant intentionally caused the damage by leaving the water running upstairs in the bathroom, which damaged the kitchen ceiling and removing the -- all the outlet covers in the living room. I was never notified for this. Instead, the tenant contacted L&I, which resulted in a $300 violation issued to me. Because the violation was attached to the property, I was unable to renew my rental license. That tenant made it very difficult for me to access the property to make repairs; changing locks, and refusing the entry. Even I had pulled L&I and they came out three times to get inside the property, they couldn't get in. But meantime, I couldn't renew my license. In this situation like this, Councilmember, what would you expect the landlord to do? Regarding posting the violation and inspections, I also received the violation notice in mail for $75 couple days ago -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please take -- please wrap up your comment.
Yes. For the violation, $25 late fee, which I never received any mail before. So in this case, you say that we have to let the tenant know 48 hours before. Where can I get this 48 hours before? When I receive this violation month and a half or two months late. Thank you for understanding. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Thank you. And I'm sure that bill 23 sponsor is willing to talk more with you. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Camille Pearsall. Good afternoon, chair and members of the Housing committee. My name is Camille Pearsall. I'm a Philadelphia native, current resident. I don't live rich on the hill somewhere. In fact, I'm a constituent of Councilmember Bass's District 8 and an affordable housing provider here in Philadelphia. I take pride in providing safe, high-quality housing. In fact, part of what led me into this work was witnessing my own neighbors living in substandard conditions. Conditions very similar to what some tenants have testified here. No one should have to live like that. And I want to be clear, I do not support bad landlords. Get them out of here. There should absolutely be sanctions and accountability for those who fail to provide safe housing. However, I am here today because I believe the current form of these bills is not balanced, and it does not distinguish between bad actors and responsible housing providers. Many of us are small business owners, not large corporations. We already operate within standard ethics and accountability, and we are committed to maintaining safe and habitable properties. One of my primary concerns is the vagueness and the inconsistency in enforcement within this proposed regulation. When policies are unclear, enforcement becomes uneven, creating confusion and unnecessary risk even for those who are already compliant. There are also due process concerns: shifting burdens, limiting timelines, and enforcing penalties before appeals are fully resolved putting responsible housing providers at a disadvantage, even when they're acting in good faith. Additionally, I would like -- I would be remiss not to mention the Sunshine Act concerns raised after the previous hearing. It appeared, when I walked in this room, decisions had already been made prior to fully hearing from housing providers. This process should be a reflection of genuine balance consideration for all stakeholders and not just here to do it because we all have to. The practical impact of these bills will be increased delays, operational strain, and higher costs. I'm wrapping up. Many of us are balancing full-time responsibilities while managing properties and additional administrative burdens will make it more difficult to continue providing housing in this city. What would you do when -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please wrap up.
-- a small land -- I am. What would you do when that small landlords are gone -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much --
What we need is -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: -- for your comment today. Thank you for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is Melissa Moss. I apologize for my voice; it's not one of my better days. I am here to support the bills that are in question today. And the reason for that is, this is not just creating a housing crisis; this is creating a health crisis. Because I was not this sick prior to living in my infested home, that created the pulmonary condition and then subsequently a heart condition. I had lived homeless, I've left -- I've lived in storage units and slept under a loading docks and have never contracted the illnesses that I have. And so I'm here to say that these bills are incredibly important now; not tomorrow, not next week, not next month. Nicolas -- Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke mentioned the young lady who has actually died living in these conditions. We have to stop it. The other piece is you're not noting there is a mental toll that this takes, the fight to come down here when you're sick, when your day -- you're struggling that day and you really just need to stay in bed and rest. When you find out that all your hard work has been thrown to the side. The mental toll is incredible. As the pastor said months ago in church, one Sabbath morning, life be licensed. So we have so many other things that we're dealing with, and when you throw this at us like our health and our wellbeing doesn't matter, that's a lot. Please, Council, pass these bills. Thank you so much. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for being here today and for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
Alexis Lanausse, Arnold Bryant, Algernong Allen, David Lipscomb. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is Algernong Allen. I'm representing the Greater Philadelphia Association of Realtors. Thank you Chair and members of the committee for taking the time. I'm with the Greater Philadelphia Association of Realtors, which advocates for licensed real estate professionals, property owners and housing consumers across Philadelphia. GPAR fully supports policy designed to ensure fair treatment, safe housing, and the reduction of unjust eviction. Our members are fully committed to compliance, professional standards, and the wellbeing of both property owners and tenants. But we raised two key concerns about these bills. First on implementation. GPAR asked that the city delay the effective dates long enough to create clear FAQs and checklists for property owners and tenants. We all want compliance, and clear guidance would help prevent costly mistakes from the start. Second, Bill 250330 does not fully reflect how housing works for many ordinary Philadelphians. Many owners are not large investors. They're people who kept a former home, inherited a property or bought a small rental to build financial stability. Over time, circumstances sometimes change. For example, an owner may retire, face illness or financial pressure, go through a family transition or decide they can no longer be a landlord and need to end rental use, recover possession, and sell the property vacant, often to another owner occupant. Without that option, the property may be harder to sell, worth less and less useful to the person who owns it. The bill should recognize withdrawal from rental use or sale to an owner occupant as a valid basis for non-renewal with clear notice and tenant safeguards. Because clarity is a friend of compliance. We appreciate Council's commitment to tenants protection and welcome the opportunity to work towards solutions that are fair, workable, and clearly defined. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. And I know the bill sponsor is willing to help further with GPAR. Thank you. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is David Lipscomb. And I would like to say that, good afternoon, Chairwoman Jamie Gauthier and Vice-chairwoman Rue Landau and members of the Philadelphia City Council Housing Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. You know, at the outset, I want to be clear, I'm not in support of these bills as currently written: Bill No. 250330 and also Bill No. 17 250329. Not because the goals are wrong; safe housing matters, but because how we get there matters just as much. I'm here today because I'm trying to understand how accountability has come to be labeled as bad faith. History gives us some guidance. Martin Luther King was criticized for pushing too hard. Thurgood Marshall working through the NAACP, challenged the courts that weren't working, leading to decisions like Brown v. Board of Education. That wasn't bad faith, that was accountability in action. Today when small landlords raise concerns about due process, about transparency, about implementation, and yes, sometimes go to court, it's labeled bad faith. Respectfully, that's not an obstruction, that's participation. And where there are concerns about the Sunshine Act and adherence to Council procedures, raising those issues isn't disruptive, it's responsible. On a safe and healthy homes framework, we all agree on the goal, safe housing matters. But execution, that's where the strain shows. For small landlords this often means more compliance layers, longer timelines, overlapping requirements, greater financial and legal exposure. In real terms, that can look like months without rent, raising repair costs and no clear path to resolution. That's not theoretical. So I just want to finish it up. These frustrations have been voiced publicly, including by Bill Vargas who highlighted how difficult it was. I would like to say to Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke, you know, one thing going the civil rights era, Reverend Dr. King said -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Please wrap -- please wrap.
I'm wrapping it up. “I feared I let my people into a burning house,” and I said with this legislation, I fear that you're leading your people into being homeless because once you get rid of the small landlord, you got corporate people to take care of. So thank you very much. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
Good afternoon. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Rylanda Wilson. Okay. Thank you. My name is synonymous with affordable housing in Philadelphia. I was a principal planner for the city's Office of Housing and Community Development, and I was the principal planner for the Philadelphia Housing Authority. I wrote the nation's original housing policy statement that elevated housing in Philadelphia to a cabinet level position. Now, I'm a small landlord; and by small, I mean very small. This law seems like a great idea, but every time you legislate, it comes with a cost burden. I'm asking Council to please differentiate between want and need. Do we really need this bill? Is there a cost neutral solution? Have someone who understands numbers run the cost benefit scenarios. My only recourse is to raise rent. I live on a pension and Social Security. I can't afford to subsidize tenants. So my tenants are regular working-class Philadelphians. They're not rich. I'm not rich. I ask you to reconsider legislating yet one more cost burden. Thank you so much. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your public service and for your comment today. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, Councilmembers. My name is Timothy Lewis. I live in Mount Airy, and I'm a small housing provider here in Philadelphia. Let me be direct. This bill does not improve housing quality. It incentivizes litigation. You bundled together good cause eviction, expanded retaliation claims, rent abatement criteria, and L&I triggered enforcement and tied them to a municipal court system that is already slow and overburdened. You-all know this. A tenant doesn't need to be merited, they only need to initiate a claim, because once they do, the burden shifts to the housing provider. At the same time, you're dismantling one of the only low conflict tools housing providers have, non-renewal at the end of a lease, and replacing it with vague good cause standards that will be argued case by case in court at significant cost. Instead of resolving issues efficiently, you're inciting escalation. This is not a housing policy, it's a dispute generation framework. What's most troubling is how this bill is marketed as tenant advocacy while the real benefactor remains shrouded. Large institutional investors can absorb compliance expenses, convoluted regulations, delays, and litigation. To them, punitive penalties are the cost of doing business. Small housing providers, family operators, do not have this luxury. Safe, Healthy Homes carries with it a palpable irony. You're not siding with working class Philadelphians; you're pricing them out of ownership and reserving housing investment for private equity who are detached from tenant wellbeing and undeterred by municipal punishment. Every sad story we have heard here is a failure of the city and L&I to enforce current regulations. Let's get results not chase headlines. This bill is well intentioned, but it is structurally flawed in almost every way. I urge you to consider these words. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Yes. Brenda Otto. Good afternoon, Chair Gauthier and members of the committee. My name is Brenda Otto. My husband Paul and I own several rental properties in Philadelphia. We are the mom-and-pop landlords and the local investors who provide the backbone of this city's naturally occurring affordable housing. We view our tenants as value partners. They look out for problems with the property and notify us properly regarding any issues. We cannot be successful in this business without them. In turn, we are responsive to any issues that affect their tenancy. I believe that the two housing bills before you will affect our business in the following ways: First, the extensive compliance obligations with associated penalties to cause great financial harm to some small landlords such as ourselves. Our profit margin is much smaller than that of larger and corporate landlords. Rent is not pure profit. It is the lifeblood of the building. When a court orders 100 percent abatement over a paperwork error or a minor non-safety violation, it strips the landlord of the exact funds needed to perform the very maintenance the city claims to prioritize. Secondly, automatic rent abatement promoted by these bills could cripple our business as the safety net of an impartial court system is removed. Landlords as well as tenants have a right to due process. We view these bills as punitive and over regulatory. While we agree that every Philadelphian deserves a safe place to live -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'm going to have to ask that you wrap up your comment.
Okay. The current push to expand rent abatement is economically reckless. We ask that you consider the adverse effects of these two bills on caring and efficient landlords. Thank you for your time. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed.
My name -- my name is Avram Oslik. I own and manage affordable rental properties across North Philadelphia. And one building I've owned since 2019, no 17 tenant pays more than $625 a month. I've not raised rent once, even as taxes, insurance, and utilities have all increased. The tenants in my building are working families, seniors, and people on fixed income. I'm the person providing that housing. I'm not here to oppose the safe housing, I'm here because Bill 3 250329 creates serious financial consequences that have nothing to do with the actual housing conditions. Three concrete examples: First, I hired a certified lead inspector before a license renewal. There is a test and error, not mine. The corrected results came back late. That single documentation failure made an entire six unit building ineligible for renewal. The building was safe, the tenants were safe. Under this bill, that administration gap can expose the entire building to rent abatement. Second bill, 250329 requires a freshly issued certificate of rental suitability not just in new tenancies, but every annual lease renewal. You miss that window on the long-term tenant renewal and you face abatement exposure, not because anything changed, not because the unit is unsafe, because of an administrative deadline that resets every year indefinitely. Third, a tenant's window is damaged repeatedly by guests, not by our negligence. We ordered a quality replacement; lead time is four to eight weeks. Under this bill, that supply chain delay, while we are actively making a repair, can expose the entire building to abatement. If a tenant stops paying rent during any of this, the eviction process takes six months or longer. The financial exposure only runs one direction. Meanwhile, cost of materials, labor keeps rising -- keeps rising. My margins on some units is 1- to $200 a month. One month of a building-wide abatement erases the entire year of net income. The landlords who survive that are institutional investors. The ones who leave are local operators providing affordable housing in working class neighborhoods. Please amend this bill to require actual and safe conditions before abatement attaches. Establish a cure period and limit building-wide consequences violations that affect the entire building. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
Good afternoon. My name is Ugochukwu Opara. I am a licensed realtor, licensed contractor, certified property manager who takes pride in being a Philadelphia landlord. I currently house about families. And I'm here to say that I am not in opposition of these bills. All of my properties are completely renovated from the top to bottom with my bare hands. And the only issue I have with these bills is the implementation of it. Perfect example, I have a property right now, it's a four unit that I'm not able to get a rental license for. Not because it wasn't properly renovated, not because there's something wrong with it, but because the tenant knows how to skirt around the rental license process. If you call L&I and they come out to give you a violation, you now have to rectify the violation before you can get the rental license. All it does is stall and makes it so that when I do file the eviction, it makes it even longer. I have no problem with this bill, but the only issue I have is that it's one sided. There is no 5 penalty for the tenant. There is no 6 grace for true grace. I hear what he's saying, but there's no actual true grace when you put it into practice. And I would like for you-all to just take the time to really understand that no one benefits from ugly houses. The landlord doesn't benefit from ugly house because now you can't collect rent, and the tenants don't benefit from an ugly house because it's unsafe and it's uninhabitable. We are all on the same page. And I really want everyone to just sit down, Kumbaya, because this can be figured out. And there are other states and municipalities that have rules and regulations that fairly accommodate not just the tenants, which is what's happening here, but also take into account the landlords' operational expenses as well. That is all I'm here to say. Thank you for your time. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, my name's Naima Khan. Good afternoon. I am a resident of Philadelphia, a homeowner for the last years in 15 the Overbrook section of Philadelphia. And I 100 percent agree with Safe, Healthy Homes. I'm in agreeance with it. I think it's a wonderful thing, and I think that we should move forward with it. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Julie White. I am a landlord in the city of Philadelphia. I'm a part owner of Tower Property Management. We manage 469 properties in Philadelphia and Chester. We have no mold situations right now. We have no violations on a single property right now, and I represent about 50 landlords, and I should be here saying, yes, this all has to stop. But this is the reason I'm in business, because a person with a single home who's never been a landlord cannot possibly figure out how to be one on their own anymore. And I started when I was years 20 old. I bought my grandmother's 21 illegal duplex, had to get it 22 legalized, had to go to City Hall, 23 had to do all those things back in 24 the day. And I've been doing things legitimately ever since. I understand people have issues. They come to me to rent our properties and they tell me why, my ceiling fell in. My landlord won't fix things. My -- you know, you're actually keeping me in business by passing these bills and laws. However, I will tell you the taxes went up. No landlord can get a rental license without paying the real estate taxes by not having appropriate lead certifications. And anybody that I represent in the city as their property manager, we don't even fool with people like that. We will not take their business on. I have a lawyer that handles the evictions in the city of Philadelphia because I can't, it's too complicated. I can do them in Chester and evict a tenant in a year -- in a month and a half. Now, every tenant that needs rental assistance, I fill out paperwork to get them that assistance. It's a cooperative effort. So to make these laws where no retaliation, if you're not paying your rent and you're destroying the property, you should not have your lease renewed. If you have a problem with that, I don't really care. Like that's just -- that's not appropriate at any time. So I work with legitimate landlords that pay their taxes, that correct their properties because I don't want endless phone calls for maintenance. Think this is too much. It has to be like reigned in. That's all I have. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment.
Thanks. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
How you doing? My name is Justin. Thank you, Councilmember Curtis. Thank you, Jamie, bill sponsor, Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke, and the rest of Council. My name is Justin. I'm a tenant living in Philadelphia. I have lived through terrible conditions such as mold, leaks; you know, leaks that started as simple leaks and instantly got worse and caused financial strains on myself and my family. For this reason and many, many more, that two minutes does not give me time to express. For this reason, I urgently urge all Councilmembers to vote yes and support Safe, Healthy Homes. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Will the clerk please call the next few public commenters.
Hello. My name is Coretta Martin. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate this. I must be really brief. My situation is that I moved into my apartment in September. We had a small electrical fire around December. I actually had to move, vacate the premises because my landlord would not fix the property, stating that it was some issues with insurance-wise. My thing is there was no electricity in the apartment, no heat in the apartment. My daughter lost her ESA animal, her animal for her services due to there not being any heat, because we couldn't take her where we were living at. So we were at my sister's for -- from December to February when I first moved out, when I moved out, broke my lease and was able to move. Those are not conditions that somebody should have to live in. I don't care how old you are, how young you are, what the situation is. I've been a renter in Philadelphia for some time and unfortunately, I have not had any good experiences. My first rental apartment, my son contracted lead poisoning. He was only one and a half to two years old at that time. And the city of Philadelphia helped through a program, through CHOP, to get that property renovated -- not renovated, but cleaned. It wasn't due to anything that the landlord did. It was through the city of Philadelphia and CHOP. So this legislation definitely needs to be passed. Children need to have a safe, healthy home. Elderly need to have a safe, healthy home. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Carlos Sibu, Sr. Good afternoon, Council and residence of Philadelphia. For the record, first thing I want to state is I'm not here to praise nor condemn landlord to developers. I'm here to stand up with all who support tenants' rights, safeties, freedom. Now, we have all kind of numbers for bills. But the bill I'm standing up for today is with the unknown bill recognition. It's called P-E-O-P-L-E. See, that's what counts, the people. All this other stuff, no. Now, what's going on is arguments over this, that and the other. Why do we have to argue over what's right? It just doesn't make any sense. You know that if something is wrong, that the simplicity of it all, you'll call and tell your landlord or developer, “Hey, there's a problem.” They respond back to you. But go beyond responding. Stop doing what's allowed and do what's right. See, it makes a difference. I don't need you to respond to things. Now, even in my own current life, I don't have problems where I live, but I'm fighting right now with my son. His landlord is an incredible person. I'll just say it that way, violations as unreported just yet. But she's going to find out. This gas leak, gas company came out because I happened to go by my son's house and said I smelled something. Gas company came out and said, Hey, here's a gas leak. They found two gas leaks. So there are issues. Now, it's not an individual thing. You can't just point the finger at one person, say it's them. You can't point the finger at a tenant and say it's them. It's both sides that need to work with each other and make these things right. Now, there's nothing wrong with having laws to protect both sides. One doesn't get to the point of -- without the other. So these things aren't necessary. In 1969, and somebody quoted earlier and I was glad to hear it, but in 1969, Martin Luther King led a protest that spoke about safety, housing and economics. CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to wrap.
Okay. I certainly will. Thank you. Now, this was known as the People's Poor Campaign. And over six decades we're still fighting for the same thing: safety, housing and economics. Something going on. We didn't learn from history, we repeated it. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Thank you everyone. Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, I'm Zena Williams. I am a tenant and I've lived through a horrific situation. This is one of the reasons why this bill needs to be passed. We need to live in safe housing. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
Jamille Price, Debbie Rowe, Jackie Ross, Richard Moore. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, Councilmembers. My name is Jamille Price. I'm here representing a generation tired of being heard without seeing action. We are witnessing economic warfare where luxury boxes are built over the families who built these blocks while developers sit on hundreds of millions of unpaid taxes. This manufactured scarcity is creating a housing crisis that prices us out of our own future and erases our history. Exemplified by the loss of the Philadelphia Stars Memorial, Councilwoman Gauthier, this is your district. How can you let Black excellence and resilience be exploited and removed for profits? We are no longer asking for a seat at the table. We are building our own. Along with this current bill, I demand mandatory permanent affordability and the Community Land Trust Priority Act to turn the land back over to the people. By 2031, my generation will be the most informed voting block the city has seen. If you continue to treat our heritage as an obstacle to profit and apartments many cannot afford, we will become the obstacle to your reelection. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for being here. As an FYI, three years ago I did -- I made a law to give community land trusts preferential treatment in the city's Land Bank process. So definitely we're on the same page there. You're welcome to come to my office and we will talk further with you. Thanks so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon, members of City Council. My name is Richard Moore. I'm a housing provider and been doing so for the last 45 years. I don't call myself a landlord. I don't -- I think that's archaic, medieval, disgusting. I call myself a property provider. My tenants are not tenants, they are residents of the buildings. So that's the way I refer to them. A lot of good suggestions have gone back and forth here today, but there's one thing I just haven't heard. Why isn't there a Philadelphia only lease agreement? A lot of these issues could be covered if there was a Philadelphia only lease agreement. I mean, it's a simple idea. I just don't know why it can't be enacted. That's all I have to say. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much. And happy to talk further or you can send information to our offices about what that would entail.
Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you very much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment. Good afternoon.
Oh, okay. My name is Debbie Rowe, and I am a small business landlord, and I'm a good landlord. You know, I wouldn't want anyone to live in a property that I would not live in. And so, I maintain my property. I obey by the laws, the lead laws, and then I pass the lead laws in order to get my license. But my problem is, you know, tenants. I think you guys should hold the tenants accountable as well. There's no laws for the tenants. You know, they can come in from work, construction work and just leave their things and accumulate dust, don't clean up, and then you are holding me accountable for something that they should be, you know, cleaning up after their stuff. So that's what I don't understand. I think that the laws that you have for healthy homes may be good, but I think you need to incorporate, you know, putting the tenants in there and holding them accountable as well. Because these tenants, they know the laws and they manipulate the laws to be in their favor. You know, they do things, they'll tear up your property, call L&I and say, “Hey, you know, she doesn't --" I come in, I repair those, and they know, they tear it up again and here come L&I again, you know. And then, you know, next thing they're saying, Well, we don't have to pay rent because if we keep tearing the place up, we don't have to pay rent. I think it's unfair to put the burden on landlords. A lot of burdens are on landlords because, you know, you have these investors come in and they get these 10-year tax free -- you know, tax free. They don't have to pay taxes for 10 years because they built the property. And I think that's unfair because then you put that burden on landlord. You know, you're putting too much burdens on the landlord in order to have housing for your constituents. It makes no sense. I mean, you need to come around and if you want them to have affordable housing, build sum. CHIEF GAUTHIER: I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up your comment. Also, there's nothing in these bills that would protect that type of behavior from tenants, but I know that our colleague is --
Well, they -- my tenant called L&I on me. They called L&I on me. They destroyed my property, put holes in the wall, tore my house up, and L&I said I had to get something fixed within 30 days. You know, I got to fix it within a week. So you -- so the tenants aren't being held accountable for. If you tear it up, you should be held accountable for it. That's why. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much. Thank you for your comment today. Our Vice Chair Rue Landau is very well versed in this aspect of the law and is willing to talk to you further after the hearing. Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is Jacqueline Ross. I want to thank you Council for taking this testimony today. I am a Neighborhood Restorations tenant and have rented for over years. With 16 that being said, my carpet been 17 there too for 18 years. Have not 18 been moved yet. Okay. But this is -- this is what I guess tenants supposed to do. Okay. I am -- I am calling on the City Council to vote in favor of the Safe, Healthy Homes law to protect tenants like myself and others. I'm ongoing through an eviction currently and wish I had these protections to help guide me through this difficult, overwhelming time I'm going through. Me and my family resort to help with eviction or overburden, and I am struggling to find assistance. Please vote in the favor of the Safe, Healthy Homes to ensure renters get the help they deserve. That goes to these tenants. To the landlords -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment.
To the landlord -- to the landlords, how -- can I ask you a question? I said I've been there for 18 years, so has the carpet. I asked my landlord several times to -- can they move it? They told me no. 23 So how long does a carpet supposed to stay in the unit before they, you know, replace it? Because now I got asthma because of that. Now, I got to wear this retarded mask and can't breathe half of the time. So now what, landlord? What do I do as a tenant? Talk to me. What do I do? CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. I would like to -- thank you. I would like to recognize the presence of Councilmember Cindy Bass. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters?
Katie Glick, Eli Gobe, Levi Toback, Vanessa Raymond-Garcia, Dawn Sanders, Tyrick Murray.
Hello. My name is Katie Glick. I want to thank all the tenants who have commented today. I'm a Philadelphia nurse, and I'm now a medical student at Drexel. I decided to pursue medicine because I want to help keep Philadelphians healthy. I'm here today because I want to talk about the public health issues that come with living in substandard housing. The medical community recognizes poor housing as a significant social determinant of health, even after controlling for other determinants such as income and smoking. Poor housing conditions are associated with a variety of chronic health issues, including asthma, respiratory infections, cardiovascular disease, lead poisoning, injuries, and worsened mental health. One landlord earlier talked about how her heat was up for two weeks this winter. I wonder how she would have felt about that timeline knowing that she was in an increased risk of heart attacks due to that cold. Here in Philly, we know the violations associated with negative health outcomes are more likely to affect low-income Black communities with North, Southwest and West Philly being hit hardest. Seventy- three percent of hazardous living conditions affecting health and safety were clustered in areas of higher-than-average poverty in the city. And 66 percent were clustered in predominantly Black neighborhoods. Rental advocates have stated that renters are hesitant to report code violations for fear of retaliation or fear that their home may be deemed unsafe and that they'd need to relocate. This leads to renters in substandard housing only reporting once their landlords have already filed their evictions. We heard someone say earlier that renters should protect themselves, but landlords have the power in this relationship. Housing is a basic physiological need, and more than that, it is a basic human right. Philadelphians deserve to be healthy. Being safely housed is instrumental in that goal. I urge everyone on this Committee today to vote to move the Safe and Healthy Homes Act forward to a full vote in Council. Renters should not have to wait one more day for these protections. Thank you for your time. VICE CHAIR LANDAU: Thank you very much. Can the next person please state your name? State your name for the record. Thank you.
Hi. My name is Sonya Sanders. I wanted to thank Nicolas O'Rourke, Jamie Gauthier and Rue Landau for your help. I am a -- I have -- I'm a president of Philly Thrive, and I'm also a tenant that has been abused. I'm recognizing today that I've been abused by landlords. Now, I have been -- had the blessing of having plenty of landlords, but I have one good landlord that I have today. And I'm not -- I'm not opposing against the good landlord. We're not here for that. If you're doing your job, we -- kudos to you. We applaud that. We applaud that. But for the landlord here or anywhere else in Philadelphia that's not doing that job, shame on you, because you're causing bad health. You are taking our health and you are abusing our health. You are leaving people. Anybody would say you're killing us in these homes. And it's not fair. It is not fair. I will not stand for it. My people will not stand for it. My community will not stand for it. They will -- my organization will not stand for it. It has to stop. I commend Nicolas O'Rourke. He gives a savior to us. He gave us a voice. You understand? We will not be abused any longer. We still have to go home in our homes and still see roaches crawling. When we call our landlords, they do nothing. They do nothing. You call after the call, you go down and you go down and you try to fight. You tell them what you need. They say you ain't doing enough. How much more can we do? That's why we're here today to say we will not stand for it any longer. Any longer. Bad landlords you are going to stop abusing us. We have a right. We have rights. VICE CHAIR LANDAU: Thank you. Can the next person please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony?
Yeah, I've been told I can go next. My name is Tyrick Murray. I'm a resident of the Fern Rock and Olney area. Kind of like right on the median. And I kind of want to talk about this from a public safety standpoint. I hear a lot of people on both sides talking about issues within the home. I did a quick Google today before getting here. I looked up to see how many apartment fires happened last year. And it didn't actually have a number. I actually looked at the totality of Philadelphia. It couldn't give me a number until I zoomed in and that number was over 100,000. So a lot of people who should be here to talk cannot talk because they probably are not alive anymore, right? So there's a lot of issues I have. I'm a marketing and management person. I heard a lot of people here talk about business and how it's not profitable to have this, I'm going to say be a better business person. All right? Right. If you can't operate a business without keeping your tenants alive, healthy without getting illnesses, you should not have that business. I don't care if you are a millionaire or I have a hundred thousand dollars salary, you should not have that business at the cost of another person's life. I apologize. I'm just going to be blunt with you. I'm trying to think if there was anything else to say. Oh, yeah, the bill. You-all got to read the bill. I've heard so many people gaslight this bill, bring up things that are not in it. They talking about how it allowed tenants to abuse them. It does not allow that. Retaliation is talking about retaliation in the form of a retaliation against protection of themselves. As the last person stated, she was talking about abuse. Retaliation -- let me collect my words. Let me collect my words. If I'm being abused and I retaliate against that abuse as a tenant, for you to retaliate against that is further abuse. You are the oppressor in that situation and you are continuing your oppression when I'm trying to end that. That should be something criminal. But we're not even saying that. All right? So just to end it, I believe this bill should be passed and it should have been passed a while ago. If you have complaints, bring up something specific. If you're going to talk about L&I, bring up something specific from L&I. Otherwise, why are we here? VICE CHAIR LANDAU: Please state your name and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon to everyone. My name is Eli Gabay. I'm an attorney in the city and county of Philadelphia for 43 years. I'm also the recipient of the Pro Bono Award on behalf of tenants in the Philadelphia Housing Authority in 2010. I'm here on behalf of responsible landlords and responsible tenants. I believe that we've -- one of the greatest assets the city has are landlords who are trying their best and doing their best. And if the lives of tenants are extremely important, obviously their living conditions, et cetera. However, I feel that this bill is premature. It's premature in its presentation. It needs to be reviewed on both sides as you've heard today. If anything, the bill 4 should not be used as a sword by either side, but rather as a shield, but rather in a responsible manner. We are not here to repeat the attempt in Pittsburgh, which was found -- which the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania found unconstitutional. Let's not waste our time. I think we need more time to sit down on both sides and to make sure that everyone is safe and everyone is heard. And that may take time, but that time will be well spent because we will not repeat the mistakes of places like Pottstown, and as I said, Pittsburgh, which then had constitutional challenges that went up to the Supreme Court, and it went all the way down, and we are going to be here in three years back. Let's make a difference. And that difference can only be made by both sides sitting down and communicating. Every side here has a valid point -- valid points, and the safety of all of us should be the paramount concern. Thank you so much. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hello. How you-all doing today? I'm a little nervous. My name is Dawn Sanders. I'm here today because my problem's been going on right before the pandemic. CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'm sorry, can you get a little closer to the microphone? Thank you.
Sure. My problem's been going on since the pandemic. I asked my landlord through the text messages, mail, emails, everything, about coming and fixing things before it escalated up until today. I'm on my third gas shut off due to the third gas leak. Okay. My son got sick from September all the way up until today because of the mold and everything that's going on with the house. I've been in the home years. He 12 had yet come and really fixed anything. Everything was like -- everything is what I'm doing now. Camouflage in the holes. So when my family come over, they don't see it. I don't even have outside people come over no more. Because in 2025 -- in July of 2025, a friend got hurt when the ceiling fell in the house. He said, I'm suing you. Because he assumed I owned the house. I said no. And I had to beg him not to sue because I have nowhere to go. But my landlord has yet came out and fixed anything. I had to beg a neighbor that's a plumber to fix the pipe just so we could get the gas cut back on the last time back in June. This time now we have no hot water. We cannot use the stove. I am living with holes in my floor. My little grandchildren can't come over because I got to make sure they don't step on one of the rugs where I got a plank down to cover the hole and get hurt. Only thing I'm saying is with the landlords that don't want to do right, why you-all in this field? With the landlords that just want to collect money -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: And I'm so sorry. I am going to have to ask you to wrap up your comment, but I also wanted to offer that if you -- if this is something that you currently need assistance with, many of our offices are willing to talk to you one-on-one. But maybe take a few seconds and wrap your comment up.
I need this bill to pass. Because the landlords need to be held accountable, for the ones that's not doing anything with their tenants, with their homes, to keep blaming the tenants. When you already moving into a development that's already been 40, 50 years old, it doesn't make any sense if we don't -- nothing's been updated. This bill needs to pass. We need this bill to pass for us. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you. Thank you for your comment today. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Vanessa Raymond-Garcia. Good afternoon, Housing Committee Chair Gauthier, Vice Chair Landau, and all Councilmembers, and thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Vanessa Raymond-Garcia. I come representing Regional Housing Legal Services as their senior policy analyst, and I'm here to voice support for Bills 250329 and 250330. RHLS represents nonprofits that develop affordable housing and they are landlords that often want a level playing field for their tenants. Together these bills represent some of the most meaningful steps Philadelphia has taken to ensure safe, stable, and dignified housing for everyone in our city. Bill 250329 addresses a longstanding problem. Too many landlords have been allowed to collect rent while operating without valid licenses or while leaving serious code violations uncorrected. This bill finally gives those rules teeth. It requires landlords to fix outstanding violations before renewing a rental license, prevents rent collection during periods of non-compliance and mandates direct notification to tenants when a license expires or a property is unsafe. It also creates a critical proactive inspection program. This prevention-based approach would enable the city to catch dangerous and unhealthy conditions early before they can harm occupants or cause the property to become blighted. Bill 250330 builds on that foundation by strengthening the rights and protections tenants need to live without fear. It expands prohibitions on retaliation, defines and outlaws landlord harassment and establishes a stronger good cause standard for non-renewal. These are important protections, especially for renters who have historically been pushed out simply for asserting their rights or requesting basic repairs. Finally, the bill 9 strengthens the implied warranty of habitability, providing clear pathways for rent abatement when landlords ignore serious repair issues. This ensures tenants aren't paying full rent for unsafe or uninhabitable homes, things that are too often not honored in practice. Thank you Councilmember O'Rourke for your leadership on this issue. And we urge this committee to pass Ordinances 250329 and 250330. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment and for your work. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Dr. Levi Toback. I'm a psychology postdoctoral fellow. I live and work in the city of Philadelphia. And I'm here to speak to the context of these bills and the impact that they have on community members, particularly the patients and families that I serve. And I'm here to advocate for those patients, those families, these local communities. And that includes families who have landlords, includes families who are renters. I have worked both on inpatient and outpatient side of the clinic and worked with a number of patients who have had significant housing problems, and how devastating that is. Not only for physical health, but also for mental health. There are many otherwise stable people who lose access to housing that fall into a cycle of mental health that is incredibly difficult to escape. I hope, and I do believe that these bills will help remediate that problem at a large system level. I understand that this is a complex issue and there are many stakeholders here. And not a single person here, I believe, wants housing to be less safe, as others have mentioned. The question is how best to do that. And it's a difficult task ahead of you. I appreciate you trying to do something about it. I would simply ask again, in the context of thinking about power dynamics and people who most need this bill, and in order to improve the quality of life of the most amount of people and people who are most vulnerable, that we consider, if we do make any changes to this bill, that we consider that the consequences of people who have less power have devastating consequences when they lose housing compared to people who have greater wealth and affordability or access to affordability, who will have comparatively less consequences. So I just wanted to provide that context and thank you again for attempting to address this issue. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
Good afternoon. My name is Seneca Grant, and I'd like to thank you Madam Chair and the rest of the Housing Committee. And of course, Mr. O'Rourke, our sponsor. We are forever indebted for your sponsorship. You know, my brain is so foggy right now from all the nonsense that's been spewed up here today. From small landlords to corporate landlords to corporate lobbyists. If you have a problem with anything that we're proposing, then you are in the wrong business, period, full stop. There's nothing -- there's nothing really hard about this, and we're asking for basic protections. Things that should already be on the books. Things that should already be on the books. I am in a building that was run by Odin Properties, now it's under Cross Country Management, and they're even worse than Odin was. I've had no heat for three years. I have two tenants here from my building that are with me that have also been without heat for the same amount of time or longer. And it's unacceptable. I paid my rent last week under advisement of my lawyer because I don't want to get evicted. That's nonsense. That's nonsense. So I'm not really here to talk to the Housing Committee, because we've already done this and we appreciate you guys. Thank you very much for your support. This is to you slumlords and lobbyists. You-all need to stop. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You should be ashamed of yourselves. And I don't want to hear the small -- I don't want to hear the small landlord argument because my late uncle, if he was here today, if he was alive and here today, he would be here fighting on behalf of me and the rest of us. He was a small landlord. I used to work with him on the weekends and over the summer keeping his books and helping with repairs. Landlords who do the right thing by their tenants don't have a problem with stuff like this. They don't have a problem with stuff like this. I yield back. Thank you, Madam Chair. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Good afternoon. My name is Amanda Gleason-Mack. I am a real estate associate broker, a property manager and a professional housing provider in the city of Philadelphia and Chester. I am here today because as I've stated previous times and many professional housing providers have stated, this law does nothing to create safe homes or healthy homes for the residents of Philadelphia. I do encourage a very long, well thought out inspection period. I encourage that thoroughly. When I work in other municipalities, there's a big inspection. You get all the information out of the way and you find out what's wrong before the tenant moves in. You find out what's wrong every year. As a professional housing provider, I enter my properties four times a year. I don't rely on my tenants to tell me if there's something wrong. I come and I find out for myself. I do the responsible things. But this paperwork burden, these additional complications to paperwork will just slow my business and make it more difficult for professional housing providers to stay in the city of Philadelphia. There is already a process for an L&I violation. There is already a process that requires that a tenant -- a landlord cannot renew their license if there's an open violation. There is already a way to legally withhold rent if there's a repair issue. There is already ways to delay eviction due to repair issues or if something that the landlord is doing wrong. I don't see any way that this bill helps any of that. It just makes it more confusing and more difficult. These bills complicate an already confusing process and they do nothing to help these tenants who are living in homes for three years without rent. That's a problem. That house should have been shut down. There's already a process for that. Let's fix what's broken instead of adding to it. Thank you for your time. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment. Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, good afternoon. My name is Tyrone. I am from Hartranft and also I'm a tenant in the 19122. And I used to be in the 19124. And I have been through a lot of things that people have already said between living with the roaches and neglecting like tenant -- like work order requests, which was -- which led to a ceiling falling on my -- on my friend's head, and what's caused permanent nerve damage. That's not -- that's not -- that's not a definition of a safe home. A safe -- a healthy home do not have -- you don't have -- do not have -- do not mean you get woken up by the scratches of a rodent. Healthy home don't mean to have roaches or anything among those things. So what I'm here to just plea to you guys is just, vote yes for the Safe and Healthy Homes. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment.
Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Will the clerk please call the names of the next few public commenters.
There are no 14 more names on the public comment list. Is there anyone else here that wishes to testify on the bill? Okay. Please come forward.
I don't understand what happened because I put my testimony in through email with Mary Harris three times. So I don't know why my name is -- CHAIR GAUTHIER: My apologies. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Okay. My name is Anna Maria Vona. I am privileged to be a landlord in Philadelphia because I treat my tenants as residents. The minute something happens, the minute their heat is not -- they say they don't have heat or air conditioning, a phone call initiated the very same day. So what I'm testifying about is this bill punishes good landlords. Yes, are there tons of slumlords out there? Yes, absolutely. We don't want -- they need to be punished. They need to have -- the laws need to be here, and that's what this law is; to punish slumlords. But the majority of the people who have testified today who are landlords, we wouldn't be here if we were slumlords. We are in favor of this bill. However, there's a lot of amendments that are unfair to landlords, namely weaponizing L&I. And I have a story to share. We're all here today because we comply with the rules, we treat tenants respectfully and lawfully because the repercussions are too great here in Philadelphia to act in any other manner. But more importantly, all of us here, even without these pernicious laws, we do treat tenants fairly, equitably and respectfully. The laws proposed here today are to severely punish landlords who do not live by the rules, and the tenants win because of it. They win really big. And that shouldn't be. The law that concerns me the most is allowing tenants to weaponize L&I against us, the people who fulfill a very personal obligation, the sanctity of a home that people can call their own even if it is for a short period of time. And even if they do not own it. Let me share a story with you that should shake you to your bones. My family and I were victimized and terrorized by a fearlessly intrepid tenant who did everything in her power to extort money and inflict anguish against us. Started four years ago. And please, I have to finish, this is a very important story. CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'm going to ask you to take, you know, the next seconds or so. 20
I will. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please summarize your testimony and we'll move on.
She moved into a three-bedroom, two bath, $3,500 apartment on the entire second floor of a historic dairy building. She even got a free parking spot. At one point, we had an electrical inspection. We gave her six hours notice. She was furious that we gave her six hours notice and not 24. She went to L&I in person demanding that our rental license be revoked. We were in possession of an active rental license that had been consecutively renewed for five years. We had no violation. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Please wrap up your comment.
Okay. Thank you so much. She sued -- she's still suing the city of Philadelphia, L&I, the DBA, all because she was allowed to get a rental license revoked for absolutely no reason with no 2 violation. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for your comment today. And you can also submit your written testimony. We'll take a look at it. Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
Hi, my name is 11 Patricia Brown. I also live in an 12 old apartment building, but it's now 13 Cross Country. This is my problem. 14 I've been in that unit without no 15 heat for two years. The rent is 16 also paid. You have people smoking 17 crack in the stairwells, doing all 18 kinds of stuff. 19 And then on top of that, my 20 thing is with the landlords, you do 21 patch up work, work that you know 22 that's already needs to be done. 23 You go in there and patch it up so 24 we can be passed and get this free money. That's not cool either. And then on top of that, I had an issue, a personal issue. I moved in there two years ago, like I said, and the landlord used me and my children's information to get money from the city. So now I am blackballed in the system as fraud. They should not get away with that, and I'm not the only one that they do it to. So my thing is where do you get help for that, that the landlord do to tenant? And that's it. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you for sharing that story. We would be happy to connect you with resources if you still need help with that issue following the hearing. Okay. We're -- you can come to my office, I'm 316, but I know that any of my colleagues would be willing to help as well. Thank you so much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment.
My name is Janet White. I'm with Philly Thrive. I live in the District 8th, District up in Germantown. I've been living up there for eight years. I went through eviction. I'm still in my home because I fought for -- I fought with my landlord, and they wound up getting 10 violations. They fixed the violation, but they still ain't finished the violations. I'm still there. I pay my rent on time. And I want you-all to pass the Safe, Healthy Homes Act, please. My daughter, she lives in the home now. My grandchild, she -- he has lead poisoning. You know, it's a shame, but we need it. We need the Safe, Healthy Homes Act. We need that. We need it done now, today. And I'm thankful for letting me share. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your comment. MR. Blatstein: Hello, City Council. My name's Jeremy Blatstein. The Safe, Healthy Homes bill, it's a great bill in theory, right? Every single tenant deserves a safe, healthy home. I don't think anybody who is a home provider would fight that, but there is a major thing in the system that's broken right now, and that's the evictions, right? The Philadelphia Sheriff's Department office is not holding up their side of their bargain. In order to get an eviction, it's taking 12 to 16 weeks. That doesn't let this circle of how home providing works in the city of Philadelphia. Until that is done, you can't pass -- this bill should not be passed. And the last thing that GPAR already brought up is if somebody wants to sell their home with a tenant in it, and it should be allowed that a homeowner who's going to move into the unit should be allowed to move into that unit. Thank you. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Thank you so much for your comment. Okay. Seeing no one else here to testify on the bills, this concludes the public hearing. We will now go into a public meeting to consider the action to be taken on the bills heard today. Can the clerk please call the roll.
Chair Gauthier. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Present. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Landau for a motion on Bill No. 24 250329-A. VICE CHAIR LANDAU: Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 4 No. 250329-A be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading of this bill at the next session of Council. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Is there a second? MALE VOICE: Second. CHAIR GAUTHIER: It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 250329-A be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading of this bill at the next session of Council. All those in favor of the motion will signify by saying aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Aye. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Those opposed? The Ayes have it and the motion carries. Bill No. 250329-A will be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation. With the request -- I would ask -- we have to get through everything. I know there's a lot of excitement, but please allow us to get through everything properly. Bill No. 250329-A will be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation with a request that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading at the next session of Council. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Landau for a motion on Bill No. 250330-A. VICE CHAIR LANDAU: Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 22 No. 250330-A be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading of this bill at the next session of Council. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Is there a second?
Yes. CHAIR GAUTHIER: It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 250330-A be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading of this bill at the next session of Council. All those in favor of the motion will signify by saying Aye.
Aye. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Those opposed? The Ayes have it and the motion carries. Bill No. 250330-A will be reported from this committee with a favorable recommendation with the request that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit First Reading at the next session of Council. This concludes the business of the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless today. Congratulations.
Madam Chair. CHAIR GAUTHIER: I'd like to recognize Councilmember Jones.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For the record, we pass this out of committee because we believe in the character of our member, and that his earnest willingness to work with the other lobbyists and the other organizations to come up with reasonable amendments. We believe in you Nicolas O'Rourke. And so, until, you know -- at the final count of this, we got to go out to the greater body and we want to hold you to that word. CHAIR GAUTHIER: Congratulations, Councilmember O'Rourke, and tell all of the folks who fought for this, thank you so very much. (Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless hearing concluded at 2:55 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me of the above case, and this copy is a correct transcript of the same. _______________ Samanda J. Rios