He already said it.
This is what he's doing.
He keeps talking, so he gets it in, Mr. Chairman.
Objection.
Mr. Chairman, Mr. DeMarco doesn't allow the witness to finish.
Mr. DeMarco doesn't like the answer, and he tries to withdraw.
all right gentlemen we we have i believe a significant number of other witnesses
uh we want to get this done today but we're running up against the clock we have a two
o'clock session uh staff needs a break so uh i mean i don't unless we're going to continue this
i would really like to see if we can get to the meat heart to the meat of this issue my understanding
is, as a buy right, he can build seven apartments and amass 80% of the lot. Correct? He's doing
fewer apartments and not taking advantage of the 80%. That is correct, Your Honor.
You're absolutely correct. May I continue with my cross? It's very important that I get this
stuff in this is a very important call all right so mr shram with regard to this over-the-counter
permit uh you never sought to go to the historical commission with this proposal right
you just talked about feedback that you got you never actually submitted it correct
no we actually met with the the same actually i have to i have to see my records i met with the
one of the staff it was an informal informal meeting with laura where the staff member at
the historical commission to ask them and i'm pretty sure i actually did meet with them before
i purchased the property met with her and she explained to me what what would what she believes
will be will be approved and that was not answering the question and he's getting more hearsay in
the question is did you submit it the question is very simple did you submit the over-the-counter
project to the commission for consideration no but i did discuss it with the um uh the answer is no
right all right very good answer is no yes very good so the over-the-counter permit would have
more units right would have that is correct yes okay um but you're not interested in that project
because it's not as much rentable area is that fair to say no not at all i i again i am trying
to build my house my home for myself for my family this is not an investment property this is a home
so that's why that's what i'm doing with it but it could turn out it could be an investment property
So that's why, that's what I'm doing with it.
But it could turn out to, it could be an investment property.
Sure, sure.
It could be short.
So Mr. Schramm, as far as the massing of the property, the massing of the building,
it's certainly physically possible for you to just seek a height variance for the cornice line of the property
and then step your building back to match the other properties on the block.
Couldn't you do that physically?
I don't know.
I would have to spend another four or five months going through the historical commission.
Then I can get back to you and answer it.
Who knows?
But it's fair to say that you certainly could propose a building that matches the mass.
You could certainly propose anything.
Sorry?
You can certainly propose anything.
Well, no, I have a specific question, which is you could match the massing of my client's property and the other properties on the block if you wanted to, right?
Let's stipulate that that's a possibility. He can do that.
Well, Mr. Chairman, I need this for the record.
He's saying yes.
If he's going to stipulate, that's fine.
I wouldn't do that for the simple reason is that my zoning for my property is an R1, which allows me to build 80% of my property.
So why would I build 50% if I'm allowed 80%?
The answer to your question is because you would not need a height variance for the entirety of the building.
You could actually seek a height variance only for the front part of the building, couldn't you?
Sure, I could.
And there's nothing physically preventing you from doing that, right?
Nothing unique about this property that prevents you.
Physically?
Physically.
there's nothing physically yes or no it's a yes or no question
physically no rationally though i would have a yes or no question all right let's let's move yeah
okay no
so did you threat did you you mentioned you brought into the record mr shreem conversations with my
client did you did you did you threaten my client with litigation for her opposition in this case
Do you threaten your clients? No.
Do you threaten her with litigation?
Do you call her names, call her evil?
I'm sorry, Chair, if I could just mention, we can go to 1 p.m., okay?
I was just going to ask you that. Okay, thank you.
I'm almost done, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Schramm, are you aware that the individual who posted the orange zoning poster back in March for the RCO meeting in this project took a picture and then removed it?
Are you aware of that?
No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.
Mr. Miller.
I have a brief question, Mr. Chairman.
Ryan Bolin.
Oh, Brian, I'm sorry.
I just wanted to clarify one point.
Mr. Schrein, you testified before that there's only two variances.
Is that accurate?
No, that is not accurate.
There's a third variance for the roof deck not being set back out of 20th Street.
Is that correct?
I'm sorry, Mr. Miller.
Mr. Chairman, the...
didn't we not discuss that at the last uh go around mr chairman the variances that we seek
are a matter of record or a matter of what they're a matter of record
mr chairman i just want to clarify for the board that there was some testimony that was inaccurate
that there's only two variances there was a third variance that was forgotten about
which is because the roof decks are not set back five feet off of 20th street
it's not just
it's not just the rooftops
it's the balconies
and chairman may I add
this was a result again of the historical
commission
asking us to remove
the roof on there which created
variance
that's been established
and when you establish
that the front of 2000 Spring Garden
Street is Spring Garden Street
that variance is gone, no longer exists. So for the record please that's all I
have Mr. Chairman. I'll refrain from my other questions and move this along. Thank
you Boland. Who's up next? Mr. Miller? Mr. Chairman, Mr. Schrein was my last
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Schrein is my last witness. I move the admission of all my exhibits.
Mr. DeMarco.
I only have a handful of objections. Part of Mr. Miller's exhibits are these online
comments from alleged people in the area. That should not be consideration by this board.
it's all hearsay it's it's triple double and triple hearsay noted that's my you know that's
my you know i'd ask that you note my objection to standing from the city view letter the guy
that wrote it's not doesn't even live there other than that i'm not going to quibble about the rest
of the exhibits some of them were submitted less than five days but i've taken the liberty to do
that myself so i'm not going to object to documents submitted within the five days because i'll
reserve the right to have my exhibits as well but those are my main objections to the hearsay
the petition i'd also object to it's got very few people in the area but i guess i i would let the
petition in but ask you to consider the locations with the signatures and but i do not want the
uh next door online commentary be part of the record thank you so noted mr chairman if i may
add the the president of the city view uh association al perry has also submitted a
letter he lives he's a resident of city i think i think i believe we heard from
the city view folks at the last hearing i'm not sure it was the manager i remember hearing someone
from City View. It was Mr. Hamler that's correct Mr. Chairman. Thank you. All right.
Gentlemen, Mr. DeMarco, Mr. Bolin, anything to add before I go ask the board if there's any
questions? Yeah we have our case Mr. Chairman but we'll wait till you're ready.
How long do you think we're going to need? We have as witnesses we have Janice Woodcock
who's our architect and the one who's been attacked for misleading people we have we have
molly gallagher who's the uh the representative of the uh the company that opens owns the property
next door um the rco has witnesses two other witnesses have were uh have asked to speak
um and lisa hastings it's the policy of this board has always been to give everyone an
opportunity to be heard right i believe and correct me if i'm wrong that at the last when
we last heard this case miss wilcox i believe testified am i correct in that or no or am i
did not testify she did not no i'm thinking of another case then yeah all right is there any
other any of the other witnesses that you just mentioned have they spoken at the last
go-around no sir kathleen harleman is the other witness that we've identified so we have five
we have three formal witnesses but two others have asked to speak today and that's bob sutton
and lisa hastings that's not including the rcl that's that these folks not repeat what has
already been said not only today but at the prior hearing so let's call call your people on
i'd like to start with janice woodcock mr chairman unless please do all right
janice are you with us
i have to unmute her can you hear me yes yes hi janice uh please spell your full name for the
record janice woodcock j-a-n-i-c-e w-o-o-d-c-o-c-k thank you you swear and affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth i will sir and you're testifying as a representative of
rco no i'm no okay of mooring properties okay thank you mr chairman in order to preserve time
i know you're pressed for it um you know i can have janice speak about her qualifications she's
testified at this board before as an expert and we'll stipulate we'll slip stipulate to that very
well that's going to streamline things thank you um janice uh good morning good afternoon um
You're a, you've been hired by my client to present an expert opinion in this matter, correct?
Correct.
And if you as an expert were asked to, and you're being paid for your services, correct?
Correct.
So if you were asked to present an opinion that you didn't agree with, would you refuse to do so?
I would.
Okay. So let's do this. Did you prepare a written report in this matter?
So let's do this.
I did.
Okay. Well, why don't you do this? First, let's tell the board what you looked at, what you did,
and then I'll ask you to summarize your report and let's have you share your screen so you can
refer to it. But let's first answer the question, what did you do as a result of this
this job that we that molly and mooring hired you to do i i visited the site and looked at the
neighborhood i used the applicant's drawings to prepare models that would take a look at the
impact of the project both visually and in terms of light and air and i put i made a report that
describes the relationship of the proposed project to the criteria in the zoning board
code that the criteria for granting a variance
and you prepared a written report did you uh reach uh opinions in that report i did and did
you reach those conclusions within a reasonable degree of professional certainty i did okay so
But let's share your screen, and why don't you summarize the conclusions in your report?
And then I'm going to ask you to refer to your boards, but let's do that first.
Can we do that?
While I'm getting the report up on the screen, I would just like to start so that we save
The report, it lists the nine criteria that are used for granting a dimensional variance,
and five of them are most relevant the rest of them are for larger projects that that affect
larger infrastructure so they're not really relevant so i'd like to run through quickly
the five that are most important and i'll frame them in terms of questions first will the denial
of this variance create a hardship and was the need for the variance created by the applicant
i believe that it was the decision of the owner to build more density on the site than is necessary
necessary than it would be to have a viable development, and if no variants were granted,
a viable project would still be possible.
In other words, the owner created the need for the variants.
Second, will the variants represent the minimum necessary to afford relief?
I believe that the viable residential project that could be built with sun and views would
be certainly able to be constructed on this lot without a variance.
indeed there are 18 similar properties on the block that demonstrate this point and on top of