COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON LAW AND GOVERNMENT3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 19, 20117 2:10 p.m. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE, CHAIR10 COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR.11 COUNCILMAN BILL GREEN COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY12 BILL 110631 - An ordinance amending Title 2114 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Miscellaneous," by regulating the public15 availability of police accident reports, including, but not limited to, providing for16 the confidentiality of certain information contained in such reports, and providing fees17 for the issuance of such reports, all under certain terms and conditions.18 - - -20 2
Good2 afternoon, everybody. This is the3 Committee on Law and Government.4 For the record, we have a5 quorum with myself, Bill Greenlee;6 Councilman Kenney, the Vice-Chair of the7 Committee; Councilman Goode; and8 Councilman DiCicco.9 Ms. Marconi, will you please10 read the bill before us today.11
Bill No. 110631, an12 ordinance amending Title 21 of The13 Philadelphia Code, entitled14 "Miscellaneous," by regulating the public15 availability of police accident reports,16 including, but not limited to, providing17 for the confidentiality of certain18 information contained in such reports,19 and providing fees for the issuance of20 such reports, all under certain terms and21 conditions.22
The first23 witness on my list is Commissioner24 Decker, Records Commissioner Decker.25 3 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 (Witnesses approached witness2 table.)3
Good4 afternoon, Commissioner.5 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Good6 afternoon. If it's okay, I'll just7 summarize.8
Sure.9 Absolutely. Whatever you'd like. We10 already have your written testimony, yes.11 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Well,12 good afternoon. My name is Joan Decker.13 I serve as the Records Commissioner in14 the City of Philadelphia, and I'm here to15 testify on Bill No. 110361. And we know16 that the intent of this bill is to17 prevent some professional companies and18 organizations who have access to traffic19 accident reports currently and who20 actually contact various citizens and21 companies in an unsolicited manner.22 We do support this legislation,23 but we do request several amendments,24 please.25 4 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Our first amendment is that we2 need some time to implement the work that3 goes around implementing this particular4 bill. So we are requesting 90 days lead5 time before it becomes implemented, and6 the reason for that is that there is an7 infrastructure in place. It includes an8 automated system, and it also really9 would affect policies and procedures10 related to this.11 We do accept applications12 currently in a number of different modes,13 including online, escrow accounts, mail,14 walk-in. So we really need some time to15 be able to modify the system and the16 basic overall infrastructure.17 Also, we need some time to18 publish regulations, and the reason for19 the regulations is that we want to20 establish clear guidelines that are very21 clear to both the staff and to potential22 requesters so we can verify the23 eligibility of any of the parties who do24 request the information from us. So all25 5 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 of that just will take some time for us2 to implement this properly and3 comfortably. So that is our first4 request.5 And the second request is that6 we continue to collect the $25 fee for a7 copy of the report. This fee really8 enables us to provide a certain level of9 service that we think ensures an adequate10 and quick turnaround time to those who do11 need to receive the report, and also it12 helps us to continue to make improvements13 to the system. Currently, the reports14 are available in a very convenient15 manner, online, through escrow accounts,16 and we want to be able to continue to17 make improvements to that system as we18 have done in the past.19 So both of these requests20 actually we put before you, but, again,21 we do fully support this legislation.22 And I believe that a draft of the23 amendments were previously submitted to24 Council.25 6 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 I thank you for the opportunity2 to be here today, and I'm happy to answer3 any questions you may have.4
Thank5 you. And we do have a copy of your6 proposed amendments.7 Councilman Kenney.8
Yes. Thank9 you.10 And thank you, Commissioner. I11 appreciate your cooperation in shutting12 it down. I do have a problem -- I have13 no problem with the $25 fee. I think14 that's reasonable and it reflects what15 surrounding counties charge for a similar16 document. My problem is the 90 days. I17 mean, we're going to have a rush of this18 activity in the next 90 days if they know19 it's getting shut down, and I see no20 reason why there's administrative21 problems in simply stopping the activity22 while you do your protocols and do your23 regs and train your staff.24 I mean, this is people's25 7 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 personal information that includes cell2 phones, home addresses, insurance policy3 numbers, kids that are in accidents in4 the car, their ages. I mean, this is5 information that never, ever, ever should6 have been in anyone's hands. And I'm not7 here to beat up the department or you or8 anyone else. I'm glad you're9 cooperative. I'm glad the Police10 Department has been helping us in11 stopping this, but 90 more days of this12 kind of fishing and potential fraud or13 abetting insurance fraud?14 I mean, some of these stories15 that I've been hearing, that people are16 taking these documents, identifying17 themselves as representatives of18 Nationwide Insurance Company or Allstate,19 and telling people they have to get their20 physical therapy done in the next 30 days21 or at least initiate it, sending them to22 chiropractors that they have deals with,23 I mean, it's just -- 90 more days of24 this, I really don't understand it.25 8 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 So I'm not going to recommend2 the 90-day window, but I will happily go3 along with the $25 fee. I mean, I hope4 you're able to cope with it, but this has5 got to like stop yesterday.6 I mean, really what I think7 we're paying -- and I wouldn't be able to8 even figure it out. What we're paying in9 increased insurance rates and all this is10 just -- we should not be part of this.11 So I appreciate your support of12 the bill. I accept your recommendation13 on the fee, but I'm going to have to14 disagree with you on the 90 days.15 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Well, I16 understand, Councilman. Just one point17 is that we did ask for no longer than 9018 days. So would you consider that19 language? So it gives us some time, and20 if we can expedite making parts of this21 implemented within a certain timeframe,22 we certainly will --23
If there24 are only the individual in the accident,25 9 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 their attorney or representative from2 their insurance company or the police,3 why is that difficult to limit it to just4 those four folks or four groups?5 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We're6 dealing with an entire online system, and7 my concern is that we either shut8 everything down all at once so that9 nobody gets anything --10
You can get11 these online?12 COMMISSIONER DECKER: They're13 available online to people who have set14 up accounts and --15
So they16 don't even have them come in and run a17 copy machine?18 COMMISSIONER DECKER: That's19 correct.20
That's21 worse than I thought.22 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We23 provide multiple avenues of access. It's24 online, through mail, walk-in, through a25 10 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 representative agent. So --2
Why can't3 we shut down the online and monitor the4 walk-in?5 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Well, I6 think you -- I understand your concern7 and I understand where you're going, and8 we are very sensitive --9
Once we go10 on record as shutting it down within 9011 days, it's going to be a free-for-all.12 COMMISSIONER DECKER: The13 companies may be inconvenienced. The14 companies have been -- it's really15 primarily the companies that deal with16 the online activity.17
Which18 companies?19 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We're20 dealing with the insurance companies.21 They really are our biggest user. And if22 we shut down the system, most of them do23 not send representatives in-house to pick24 up the report, so I believe that you25 11 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 would be inconveniencing them to a great2 deal. They've become accustomed to very3 convenient and timely access to the4 information.5
Can we6 identify the company versus the other7 individuals, the other folks?8 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We have a9 list to the best of our ability. If it10 has insurance in the title, we have a11 list of those companies, yes. That was12 the reason why requesting some time to be13 able to publish and implement regulations14 and, quite truthfully, even prepare them15 so we could prepare criteria.16 I would think the way we would17 want to do this is to have some kind of18 attestation and verification that the19 requester is in fact entitled to the20 report, be that an insurance company or21 an individual. If it is an insurance22 company, we might consider asking for a23 license number and some kind of a24 statement attesting to the fact that they25 12 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 are in fact a company who is entitled to2 it.3
What4 percentage of the folks that are not the5 four groups that I mentioned are the6 walk-ins?7 COMMISSIONER DECKER: The8 walk-ins comprise about 20 percent of the9 activity, and they generally do include10 mostly those individuals who are involved11 in an accident. The remainder of that12 activity is really from companies, and,13 again, I do believe that you would be14 inconveniencing them.15 It may not take 90 days to do16 all of this, but we do need a certain17 window of time to be able to provide good18 access to the people who really do right19 now depend and rely on getting the20 information in a fairly quick turnaround21 time.22 COUNCILMAN KENNEY:23 Mr. Abernathy.24 COMMISSIONER DECKER: So that's25 13 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 our concern. It's not the -- we are very2 sensitive to the fact that there is3 private information out there. We may be4 able to implement components of this5 before 90 days. That's why we ask for a6 window not to exceed 90 days.7
How many8 days would it take you to shut out the9 folks that aren't insurance companies --10 or the four groups that I mentioned in my11 question, how long would it take you to12 shut them down?13 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We need14 to work with the Police Department and go15 through the system, the online system.16 So I need some time even to go through17 that.18 This kind of hit us a little19 bit quickly. So we need to go through20 that and determine what changes need to21 be made to the system so that we can22 provide access only to those who are23 authorized, the companies that are24 authorized to have access, and then25 14 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 totally cut down and cut out all of the2 other individuals. We just need to go3 through that and make the changes. I4 cannot do that overnight. I'm sorry.5
And to -- Brian6 Abernathy, Chief of Staff to the Managing7 Director.8 And to the Commissioner's9 point, while it appears to be very black10 and white, insurance company, party of11 the accident, insurance companies often12 contract with representative companies13 and reporting companies, who I think14 you'll hear from today as well. Being15 able to work into the mechanism those16 insurance companies and how they actually17 gather information is unfortunately not18 as black and white and as easy as we'd19 like it to be. We're asking for the20 additional time to implement the21 regulations.22
If not 90,23 what is it? I mean, 90 to me seems just24 beyond ridiculous.25 15 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311
At minimum, 30.2 At minimum, 30-day -- regulations must be3 posted by 30 days by law. So at minimum,4 we would say --5
What I will6 do is, with the Chairman's approval, take7 that under advisement, listen to the rest8 of the testimony, and the people who are9 advocating to stop this activity, if 3010 days is something that makes sense.11 Ninety to me seems inordinately long.12
So if we could13 have 45 days, two weeks to write the14 regulations and 30 days to implement.15 And I say 30 days, regulations must be16 posted. And so we will need some time to17 write the regulations and have them18 posted, and that's the reason for the19 asking.20
After the21 Committee passes this today, could you22 start working on that?23
I mean,25 16 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 it's not law for two weeks or whenever2 the Mayor signs, but we could --3
Sir, you're4 calling upon me. I'm actually asking for5 four weeks. Yes, sir.6 COMMISSIONER DECKER: And,7 Councilman, just something else to add,8 there are some folks who have access now9 on site who probably will be eliminated.10 They're the kind of things that we can11 implement sooner than later, but my12 biggest concern is, again, posting13 regulations that are clear and giving us14 enough time to work with the system so we15 will be able to implement parts of this,16 but not everything immediately, and17 that's the concern. But we will begin to18 take measures to prohibit certain groups19 of folks from getting access to this. So20 you will begin to see results sooner.21
Thank24 you.25 17 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Any other questions for the2 Commissioner?3 (No response.)4
Thank5 you, Commissioner.6 The next two witnesses I have7 on my list are Michael Ebner and Mariela8 Perez. Are they here?9
I see11 them. Okay. Please approach.12 (Witnesses approached witness13 table.)14
While15 they're coming up, Councilman Kenney,16 could you just put on record -- you17 referenced the four entities that would18 still -- can we, just so everybody is19 clear on what that is, who those people20 are.21
This is in22 the Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Code and23 this is what state law allows folks to24 access this information.25 18 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 It says, Police Department2 shall, upon request -- and I guess that3 includes Records Departments here --4 furnish a certified copy of a full report5 of the police investigation of any6 vehicle accident to any person involved7 in the accident, his or her attorney or8 insurer, and to the federal government,9 branches of the military service,10 Commonwealth agencies and to officials of11 political subdivisions and to agencies of12 other states and nations and their13 political subdivision.14 So we don't have to, I think --15 I mean, we're covered in state law here,16 but we want to make clear that it's the17 person involved in the accident, their18 attorney or their insurer or police19 agencies that need it, but that would be20 it.21
Thank22 you.23 Whoever would like to go first,24 just identify yourself for the record and25 19 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 proceed with whatever statement you'd2 like to make.3
My name is Michael4 Ebner. I'm a resident of Philadelphia my5 whole life. I'm 62 years old.6 On this past August 30th, I was7 on Grant Avenue, was stopped for a red8 light at Krewstown Road, and a couple9 seconds later, I was rear-ended by10 another vehicle. There was no injuries.11 It was only one person in each car.12 Called the police. The police arrived in13 about five, ten minutes, took all our14 information and we all left. Again, that15 was on August 30th.16 On September 8th, I arrived17 home about 5 o'clock. About ten after18 5:00, I got a phone call. I answered the19 phone, and they said that they were20 calling in reference to my automobile21 accident that I was involved in. And I22 was -- I had no idea this was going on.23 I said, What are you talking about? How24 did you get my information?25 20 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 They said, We get it on the2 police reports.3 So I got in kind of an argument4 with the person and hung up on them.5 I then checked my caller ID for6 that day, on the 8th, and I had eight7 other hang-ups where someone did not8 leave a message.9 The next day I had two10 messages, on 9/9, and a total of three11 phone calls. And on the 10th, I had12 another phone call, the 12th, the 14th13 and the 15th, all one each, for a total14 of 15 different phone calls.15 I received one letter in the16 mail from an attorney about my accident.17 I have an unlisted telephone number, but18 the officer at the scene asked me for my19 phone number, so I'm assuming that's how20 they got my phone numbers.21 I had two messages were left22 asking me to give them a call in23 reference to my automobile accident and24 they would help me through with my25 21 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 claims, and if I was injured, they could2 help me with that also. One of the ID's3 on the -- one person made three phone4 calls, was called Pennsylvania Insurance5 Compensation Corporation. They were one6 of the only ones that had an actual name7 on the caller ID. I know -- I'm insured8 by State Farm. I spoke to my State Farm9 insurance guy that I know, and he was10 explaining that there was some hearings11 about this and he'd appreciate it if I'd12 come and tell them what happened.13 That's about it, if you have14 any questions.15
Just to16 be clear, how many calls did you receive?17
That was a total of21 seven different ID's. So some people22 called twice, some people called once,23 one person called five times.24
But there25 22 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 were 15 calls made to you in some2 fashion?3
Thank5 you.6 Maybe we'll hear from Ms. Perez7 and then if anybody else has any8 questions.9 Please identify yourself and10 proceed.11
My name is Mariela16 Perez. 21 On behalf of the Coalition22 Against Insurance Fraud and the National23 Insurance Crime Bureau, NICB, we are24 writing in support of your proposed25 23 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 4 The Coalition Against Insurance5 Fraud is a national broad-based alliance6 of consumer groups and insurance7 companies dedicated to combatting all8 forms of insurance fraud through9 education and advocacy. 16 The NICB is a national,17 not-for-profit organization supported by18 more than 1,100 property and casualty19 insurance companies, including many who20 write business in Pennsylvania. 25 24 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 7 First, we believe that the8 reports should be accessible to those9 people who are parties to the crash and10 their representatives only. 14 What is occurring in15 Philadelphia and other jurisdictions is16 disturbing. 23 These clinics that are seeking24 passengers at times are in business25 25 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 solely to commit insurance fraud, filing2 claims with insurers for treating3 injuries that may or may not be4 legitimate. 20 Your ordinance would not solve21 the insurance fraud problems facing22 Philadelphia drivers and residents, but23 it will help in the anti-fraud fight. 25 26 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 7 On a personal note, I am a8 special agent with the National Insurance9 Crime Bureau. Back in the summer of10 2010, I was on Broad Street at an11 attorney's office conducting a recorded12 statement on an insurance fraud13 investigation, and my vehicle was parked14 on Broad Street. When I came out after15 having conducted the statement, I noticed16 that someone had hit my vehicle while it17 was parked and unoccupied. Apparently,18 they were trying to parallel park and hit19 me. 22 About a week after, I received23 a phone call from a local Philadelphia24 clinic advising me that they understand25 27 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 that I was involved in an auto accident2 and that my insurance company wanted me3 to come get checked out because I was4 possibly injured. 21
Thank22 you.23 Do you know, Ms. Perez, has24 that letter from Mr. Lynch and25 28 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Mr. Goldblatt been submitted at all? Do2 we have that?3
Yes. It was4 submitted to the Honorable James Kenney,5 Philadelphia City Council.6
Okay.7 Thank you.8 I think you both put pretty9 good reasons why this bill is needed.10 Any questions from members of11 the Committee?12 (No response.)13
Seeing14 none, thank you for coming down. Thank15 you for your time.16
Next on18 my list is Alastair Crosbie and Deb19 Noone.20 (Witnesses approached witness21 table.)22
Whoever2 would like to start first, if you can3 identify yourself for the record and4 proceed.5
6 I'm Deb Noone. 15 About four or five years ago, I16 personally began receiving complaints on17 a regular basis from City residents and18 also insurance companies who were in turn19 receiving complaints from people they20 insured who lived or had accidents in21 Philadelphia. And the complaints22 basically all went something like this,23 without really any deviation: An24 accident occurred. A police or incident25 30 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 report was written. Within days people2 in both cars started receiving phone call3 after phone call to their home phone4 number or their personal cell phone5 numbers by someone using the name of6 their insurer, usually advising them that7 they have $5,000 in medical coverage and8 need medical attention, because even9 though you don't think so, you may be10 injured, because after all, you're not a11 doctor, are you? 13 Initially the people were left14 with the impression they were being15 called by or on behalf of their own16 insurer. 19 The complaints I received were20 from people who indicated they were not21 injured from minor accidents they were22 in. 23 Some of them felt harassed about being24 urged to be treated for injuries that25 31 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 they were not aware of. Some complained2 that their privacy was being invaded, and3 they were confused about how their4 personal phone numbers and insurance5 policy number information had been6 obtained by strangers. 12 So after numerous complaints, I13 found out that there are other ways to14 get information from police incident15 reports besides purchasing your own16 report online or in person at the Records17 Department for $25 a report, or whatever18 the going rate was. The Records19 Department offered a privilege pass for a20 relatively low annual fee, and those with21 the privilege pass are able to utilize a22 special room, provided by the City, set23 up with several computer screens where24 they can scroll through police report25 32 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 15 The privilege pass enables its16 holder to spend hours and hours recording17 this information, personal information of18 the residents of Philadelphia and anyone19 in an accident in the City, and then to20 compile lists of those involved in the21 accidents. 24 While there are pages of rules25 33 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 11 I was told directly by a City12 chiropractor that some of the privilege13 pass holders sell their lists weekly to14 various medical providers or to15 telemarketing entrepreneurs for up to a16 thousand dollars for a week's worth of17 names. 22 He said the facility he had23 worked for previously utilized this24 system heavily, employing someone to get25 34 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 the names and numbers and then additional2 people who made the phone calls. 12 By providing this information13 to a group of telemarketers, the City is14 responsible to its residents for allowing15 their personal information to be viewed,16 sold and bought purely for marketing17 purposes that benefit only third parties18 taking advantage of the system. Ask19 yourself what would possibly be the20 purpose of allowing blanket access to any21 and all police accident reports to22 non-parties, and what possible benefit is23 it to the City to permit this system of24 easy and inexpensive access to personal25 35 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 17 She's a Philadelphia resident who felt18 that the release of her personal19 information led to harassment from20 telemarketers when she resisted their21 offers. I provided a copy of her letter22 earlier. Her work responsibilities23 prevented her from being here today in24 person. But thank you for listening and25 36 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 2 Ms. ' In 2007, I was a victim8 of harassment since I was in an auto9 accident. My private personal10 information on the accident report was11 pulled by persons who encouraged me to12 commit insurance fraud. They contacted13 me many times over several weeks.
These14 individuals wanted me to fake being hurt15 and seek medical treatment. When I asked16 that the calls stop, that is when I17 received many crank calls. I feel when18 someone is in an accident and gives their19 information, there should be some kind of20 privacy. 25 37 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 3
Thank4 you.5 Mr. Crosbie, and then we'll6 have questions.7
I would only like8 to add that Ms. Rolle's story actually9 appeared in WCAU TV 10 News and they did10 an expose on it.11
My name is14 Alastair Crosbie, and I'm currently15 employed as an insurance fraud16 investigator for an insurance carrier who17 does business here in the City of18 Philadelphia. My brief testimony this19 afternoon is in support of the proposed20 City ordinance/bill which would make21 personal information on police reports22 private and not subject to unknown third23 parties' utilization of personal24 information who seek to take advantage of25 38 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 11 Our insured was on her way to12 work in July 2011 while traveling on13 Spring Garden in her personal vehicle at14 about 7:45. As our insured approached15 Broad Street, she stopped for the red16 light. 19 Our insured pulled over and20 noted her rear bumper was slightly21 damaged, and the other vehicle had the22 same type of damage in the front. ,25 39 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 registration, proof of insurance, and the2 driver of the other vehicle did not3 appear to be totally coherent, so she4 thus elected to flag down a passing5 police officer. 13 A few days later and over the14 next few weeks, our insured received over15 17 phone calls from unknown persons16 reporting to represent doctors' offices17 and advised her need to treat for this18 stated loss. Our insured advised these19 unknown telemarketers that she was not20 injured in this loss and did not need to21 treat. She was advised the following by22 different telemarketers: If you do not23 treat or use your insurance, you may be24 denied coverage in the future by your25 40 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 3 Some marketers have falsely4 called indicating they were from her5 insurance carrier and that she should go6 treat to Dr. 18 Others promised insureds that19 if she treated, she could recover several20 thousands of dollars, but needed to treat21 first to establish a personal injury22 case. Some of the telemarketers actually23 went to our insured's home unannounced in24 attempts to garner cooperation to treat25 41 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 3 Our insured inquired with4 several of the marketers how they5 obtained her unlisted telephone number,6 which is also -- she was also registered7 with the federal Do Not Call Act. Our8 insured was advised her name, telephone9 number, date of birth, home address,10 vehicle identification number, insurance11 policy number, make and model, type of12 her vehicle, along with other facts of13 the accident, were provided to them by14 City of Philadelphia via the procurement15 process from City Hall Records room. 19 Our insured was upset that she20 did not authorize this information to be21 provided to a person not associated with22 the loss. Our insured was also concerned23 that persons were contacting her advising24 that she needed to do something to25 42 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 preserve her coverage in the future. 11 Over the past 19 months, I have12 interviewed many residents of the City of13 Philadelphia in the course of my14 employment, who clearly were harassed by15 these marketers and some even given16 compensation to treat with medical17 providers here within the City of18 Philadelphia, when they enticed to treat,19 even though they were not injured. We20 have followed up on many of those medical21 providers, who immediately/clearly tried22 to distance themselves from their23 third-party marketers when these24 practices are revealed to them. These25 43 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 16 This proposed ordinance would17 protect each individual's personal18 information from getting in the hands of19 unknown persons who disseminate this20 information for financial gain. This21 ordinance would ensure proper22 dissemination of personal information by23 either the person referenced in the24 report themselves or by individuals who25 44 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. 13
Thank14 you, Mr. Crosbie, and I think you heard15 the list of people or entities you think16 should be getting this would be the ones17 included in this bill.18
I know20 Councilman Kenney has a question, but,21 Ms. Noone, just one thing I just want to22 make clear. You're saying you don't hear23 about this problem anywhere else in the24 State of Pennsylvania?25 45 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311
Do you3 know, do other entities have regulations,4 or do you know either way?5
The difference is6 that no other locations in the state that7 I'm aware of have a room like the8 privilege pass room where, for a minimal9 amount of money, you can basically scroll10 and access and retrieve any kind of11 information. It wasn't even as much the12 online situation, because at least13 they're still paying $25 a report there14 when -- at the time I got the15 information, it was $200 a year for the16 privilege pass, and basically you had17 carte blanche at all police reports for18 $200 versus $25 a report.19
Thank24 you.25 46 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Councilman Kenney.2
Thank you,3 Mr. Chairman.4 I just wanted to thank5 Mr. Crosbie and Ms. Noone, and I'll give6 you some background on how this came7 about.8 I was up at a, I guess, an9 insurance fraud investigation association10 up in Northeast Philadelphia to explain11 our other insurance fraud problem, our12 towing bill to deal with wreck chasers,13 and we had a pretty nice dialogue back14 and forth, and on the way out, I guess15 Mr. Crosbie grabbed me and said, you16 know, I know about this, and this is bad,17 but you ought to know about this, and18 then proceeded to tell me what was going19 on, and I was just kind of shocked that20 this was even possible. And then we21 worked together and came up with this new22 ordinance.23 So I want to thank them and the24 organization for your input in this, and25 47 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 I'm glad we had a chance meeting at the2 8th Police District in Northeast Philly.3 So thank you.4
Just a quick9 question. There are sort of responsible10 agencies that work for insurance11 companies. Like many insurance companies12 don't in fact get the report themselves,13 they get the report through reporting14 agencies, et cetera.15
Councilman, I may16 testify to that. Prior to working for17 the insurance company, I was one of those18 very people that would procure those19 reports, and what you usually do is, you20 have a letter of authorization. And in21 other jurisdictions, each insurance22 company has a national identification23 number for insurance. They could provide24 an NIC number, and if that's their lawful25 48 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 purpose and they are truly an agent2 acting on behalf of, they would have an3 NIC number which they could show and get4 that information.5
And those6 organizations aren't the people fishing7 for people's information.8
Absolutely not.9 There are a faction that needs to be10 considered of individuals who basically11 obtain records for insurance companies.12 We do utilize those as well, but they13 often ask us for a letter on a company14 letterhead to identify them that they in15 actuality are an agent of the insurance16 company, and we provide an NIC number,17 which is a number that the Commonwealth18 in this particular case recognizes as a19 registered number for the insurance20 company.21
Thanks.22 Can I get Ms. Decker to just23 react to that.24 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:25 49 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Commissioner Decker, could you -- first2 of all, let me just -- before we let3 these folks go, anybody else have4 questions for these two?5
Yeah. I6 have a question relative to that7 question.8 When you were in that business9 or worked for that organization and you10 received an NIC number, hypothetically11 could you go into the record room and12 pull more than just the record that your13 company was seeking?14
Right now16 there would be nothing to stop you with17 an NIC number for X accident taking with18 you 25 more copies of other stuff.19
Councilman, you20 are correct. In other jurisdictions,21 though, those police departments and22 those records departments are very23 stringent. Stronger -- you have to24 clearly demonstrate that you are a party25 50 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 to this claim, and if you're an agent2 working on behalf of the insurance3 company, you have to clearly show that.4
And often what6 they do is, they take a copy of the7 letter that authorizes you and includes8 it with that file when that report is9 procured.10
But the NIC11 number/letter specifically refers to a12 specific incident, not a carte blanche13 opportunity to then fish for other stuff.14
In some15 instances, Councilman, it shows that as16 of this date, let's say January 1 to June17 2nd, this agent is contracted with us to18 procure reports that pertain to19 Nationwide Insurance.20
They're not25 51 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 specific accident incidents.2
They are a4 period of time they are authorized to5 conduct that work for Nationwide or6 Allstate or whoever.7
They only come8 and get what they're authorized for,9 correct.10
-- to the14 rest of the information that is still15 available, at this point right now16 available in our own Records Department.17
Would the20 system grind to a halt if these agencies21 couldn't procure information for22 insurance companies, insurance companies23 had to go collect it for themselves?24
I can't answer25 52 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 that question. I can only -- from my2 personal experience having been a vendor,3 it would slow that process down, but4 once -- I know when I've gone to like the5 City of Harrisburg -- and I was going to6 interrupt Deb, but the City of Pittsburgh7 you do have to prove who you are and who8 is getting this information. So it may9 grind it until they get that10 authorization of letters, but usually you11 put --12
But you13 couldn't do that for each specific14 incident.15
It may slow the19 process down, correct, but they would20 have credentials.21
Thank23 you.24 Any other questions for these25 53 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 two witnesses?2 (No response.)3
Thank you4 both very much. Thank you for your time5 and your testimony.6 Commissioner Decker, could you7 come back up to the witness table,8 please. Councilman Green had a question.9 (Witness approached witness10 table.)11
Thank you,15 Commissioner. My question is just that16 the way the Administration amended this17 bill that Councilman Kenney is happy with18 and the way it will actually be enforced19 by the Administration will reflect the20 fact that agents of insurance companies21 can continue to have access to records;22 is that correct?23 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes.24 That's why we're asking for a little bit25 54 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 of time, so that we can post regulations2 and make sure that we draft what is3 appropriate, exactly to do what the4 gentleman was saying, to confirm and5 validate that they are in fact entitled6 to be the agent and we have some kind of7 teeth behind that so there's some kind of8 audit capability for us to be able to9 have traceability back to who is in fact10 claiming that they are an agent.11
Thank you,12 Commissioner.13 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:14 Commissioner, just so I'm clear, so the15 insurance company would give a list of16 who would be their agents --17 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes.18
-- that19 would be working for them, right?20 COMMISSIONER DECKER: That's21 correct. They would provide a list. We22 probably would provide a form, again,23 with a clear attestation that these24 individuals are authorized to act on25 55 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 their behalf, and we'd probably collect2 some other identifying information. We3 also would probably implement and request4 exactly the ID that the gentleman was5 mentioning for the company itself. So6 any time anyone was requesting this, we'd7 confirm the company, we'd confirm the8 agent and so on and so forth.9
Thank you.13 In that same regard, would you14 also be able, by regulation and by15 practice, to track the reports that were16 requested by these particular agents? So17 would you know the number of reports that18 the ABC Insurance Assistance Company19 took?20 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We can do21 that, yes.22
And you can23 do that by regulation?24 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Yes.25 56 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 And, again, that again goes into this2 whole --3
And that's4 going to be your 30, 45 days of work?5 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Exactly.6 What we'll do is, we'll create a form,7 whether it's -- an easily accessible form8 for the folks who are authorized, and we9 will make sure that that captures the10 particular DC number that you hear11 referenced that gets you to the specific12 report and as well as the other13 information. So we just need time to14 work all that out so we can comply with15 the intent of this law.16
Would there17 be some also regulation that would create18 a potential disbarment, so to speak, if19 it's discovered through some other20 investigative measure that that21 information that was taken by an22 authorized insurance retrieval agency23 fell under the hands of a person who got24 caught committing insurance fraud?25 57 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Well,2 again, we will have an attestation and a3 statement that this information is4 collected under penalties of perjury.5 There would be a signature, an6 authorization. So that would give the7 City some teeth to go after these folks.8
If it were9 recognized or found out through some10 investigatory police method that this in11 fact information that was initially12 obtained legally was used illegally,13 would that then potentially, through14 regulation, disbar that company from15 getting back in that room or back online?16 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Oh, if we17 found out that they were doing that18 illegally, absolutely, yes.19
But that20 would be part of the written regulations21 that you will promulgate?22 COMMISSIONER DECKER: We will23 do that, yes. Yes, we will do that.24
Thank you6 again, Commissioner. If you could stay,7 because maybe some other questions will8 come up.9 COMMISSIONER DECKER: Oh, sure.10
I only11 have two other people on my list and then12 I'll ask if there's anybody else here.13 Are either Mr. Lynch and/or Mr. Goldblatt14 here? I know their letter was submitted.15
All17 right.18 How many other people or are19 there other people that want to testify20 on this bill? One.21 John Bradford. John Bradford,22 why don't you come forward. And while23 he's coming up, how many other people24 want to testify? Is there anybody else25 59 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 that wants to testify?2 (No response.)3
Mr. Bradford6 allowed me to speak. I have to leave in7 eight minutes.8
Come on9 forward and identify yourself. So you're10 speaking in place of him?11
No, no. He's going12 to speak. He was kind enough to allow me13 to speak first.14
Okay.15 Have a seat and give your name and your16 statement.17 (Witness approached witness18 table.)19
Hello. My name is20 Robert Bacar (ph). I'm an attorney in21 Philadelphia. A large part of my22 practice is personal injury.23 Sorry of the informal24 appearance. I just learned of this25 60 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 hearing this morning and I was just2 interested to come down and find out what3 this was about.4 I've had experience with this,5 both in the negative and the positive.6 I've had clients of mine who have come to7 me days following an accident, clients in8 the past or families and friends who have9 been referred to me who later, about a10 week or ten days after the accident, have11 told me that they've been receiving calls12 from other companies, from doctors, from13 marketing companies, from various other14 organizations, and it's disturbing to me,15 because in a way, you don't want to lose16 the clients that have come to you for17 representation.18 But I've also experienced this19 in a positive way. I've had clients come20 to me ten days after an accident and21 inform me that -- and I would ask them,22 Why did you wait ten days to come to me?23 And they would inform me, Well,24 I wasn't aware that under my insurance25 61 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 policy that I was entitled to medical2 benefits. And I was injured, but I3 believed I didn't have treatment, and I4 couldn't afford a doctor.5 So those people benefited, in a6 way, from these calls. And what's7 interesting here today and what I've8 noticed in the few minutes that I've been9 here is that all the speakers here have10 been from insurance companies, with one11 exception. So if this is a public12 outcry --13
Let me14 just clear the record. That's not an15 accurate statement, sir. I mean,16 obviously Commissioner Decker isn't from17 the insurance company and Mr. Ebner and18 Ms. Perez are not from the insurance19 company.20
Mr. Ebner works for21 insurance companies. I actually removed22 him from my office one time because he23 accused my client of fraud, a legitimate24 case, someone was injured --25 62 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311
All2 right. I won't get into that, but he3 came here as a private citizen. But go4 ahead.5
Even Mr. Kenney10 admitted that he didn't learn about this11 until he spoke to Mr. Ebner at some12 insurance fraud seminar. So if it's such13 an appalling event that's occurring to14 the citizens of Philadelphia, why haven't15 you heard from your constituents?16 Because I think this regulation only17 benefits the insurance companies in a18 way, because they want this regulation,19 because it will cut down on claims. It20 will keep people ignorant. It will21 keep -- and you know what? It's not me22 and it's not you and it's not my23 neighbors from Bucks County. It's not my24 neighbors from around my office in25 63 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Somerton. It's the people from North2 Philadelphia, it's the people from West3 Philadelphia, it's the people from4 Southwest Philadelphia, people that maybe5 don't know even what they're purchasing6 when it comes to insurance.7 I can't tell you how many times8 I've had clients come into me and not9 know that they have medical coverage, not10 know what limited tort was, because no11 one explained it to them. The only12 people that have an interest in passing13 this regulation is insurance companies.14
So you mean15 to tell me that the guy who takes16 somebody's cell phone number or home17 number that's unpublished off a police18 report they shouldn't have in the first19 place is their only way of information20 relative to what's coming to them? And21 explain to me that at the same time when22 these people are recommending folks go to23 chiropractors that bills are 4,999,24 $4,999, and don't hit the 5,000 and tell25 64 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 them to go home whether they're still ill2 or they're not ill, you're going to have3 a hard time defending the way insurance4 works in this city and the way these5 folks are in -- first of all, none of6 these folks that are not affiliated with7 the person in the accident, their agents8 or anyone should have this information,9 period. No one should have someone's10 cell phone number. No one should have11 the information that their children were12 taken by ambulance to Jefferson for13 treatment. It's not their business,14 period.15 And this is -- you can hold all16 the insurance seminars you want and you17 can inform all the people you want.18 Those folks don't deserve to have that19 information, period. That's it. I20 mean --21
This is something22 that goes on in every single aspect of23 life. My wife gave birth at Abington24 Hospital. Within a week I got letters25 65 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 from --2
That's7 wrong, too, and hospitals are stopping8 that.9
How would you stop10 that?11 See, the thing is, there's a12 right of privacy, but you have to13 understand, that right of privacy is14 limited. It's limited to your home and15 your identification. If you're in an16 accident on a public road and you give17 your information to a --18
If you give your21 information to a police officer, that's22 public record.23
No. You're24 wrong. You're just wrong. I don't know25 66 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 where you studied law, but that's not2 correct.3
How about the4 situation where my client had his son5 shoplift at Boscov's, little boy --6
It went in the9 police blogger. He said to me, How can10 they put my son's information in a police11 blogger? Is that public interest? Is12 that public knowledge? He was13 embarrassed throughout his whole14 neighborhood.15 See, you lose a right of16 privacy in some way. Look --17
If you were18 in an accident that's no fault of your19 own, you lose a right of privacy? You20 get rear-ended by someone and it's not21 your fault and you lose the right of22 privacy?23
Mr. Kenney, the24 solution is not to back up the insurance25 67 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 companies. The solution is don't put the2 phone number on the police report. Don't3 put the phone number on the police4 report. Then perhaps if someone wants to5 be contacted, they'll be contacted by6 mail, which I've seen with DUIs. I've7 seen people getting DUIs and then all the8 sudden there's 50 letters from lawyers9 telling them if you need a lawyer.10 I've seen people have tax11 issues or just buy a house, then they get12 a letter from a lawyer saying we can do13 an appeal of your taxes.14 I mean, it benefits society15 that people go out there and talk to you.16 The only thing I've heard today is that17 insurance companies don't want this18 because it increases claims. It puts19 knowledge in people that don't usually20 have --21
It induces22 some people to commit insurance fraud.23 That's what it does.24
When the2 guy who answers the phone says, Sir, I'm3 not injured.4 Oh, are you sure you're not?5 You know, some of these things come on,6 they come on 30 days after. You'd better7 get in there now.8 I'm not injured, sir. I'm9 sorry.10 No. You'd better go to this11 guy, while he's getting paid to send the12 guy there. That's serving humanity?13
No, we're16 not. Not in Philadelphia we're not. I'm17 sorry.18
In21 Philadelphia, people get on the bus that22 just got hit and lay on the floor.23 That's what happens in Philadelphia. So24 we're going to limit that.25 69 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311
And if I2 could just add to one of your earlier3 statements was that this just kind of4 came up out of a couple people reporting.5 I have to say, I've heard this for years,6 and the reason -- Councilman Kenney7 obviously did better research than me. I8 was told we couldn't do this bill. I9 would have done it a few years ago,10 because it is a problem. It has been a11 problem. I've heard from many people12 complaining about the treatment and the13 harassment by various entities. So it14 isn't just -- it is not just a couple15 people, sir.16
I don't represent17 any of the people that call. I don't18 represent any of the doctors that are19 involved in here. I'm just here as a20 citizen, as a taxpayer of Philadelphia to21 tell you in a way, I encourage this bill,22 because I don't want my clients to be23 called seven to ten days after an24 accident and lose my client to some25 70 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 unscrupulous marketer who might promise2 something that's not true. At the same3 time, however, I've seen the benefits of4 this. I've seen the benefits of this.5 I have a client who's daughter6 was hit by a car in a hit and run and had7 brain damage and was in the hospital, and8 she wasn't aware that she had rights9 until one of these marketing companies10 called her. Now, she didn't go with11 them. She came to me from a family12 friend, but had it not been for that13 call, she would have never met me and she14 would have never had known her rights,15 and that's what I think this is.16 I think there's other solutions17 to this problem. You just leave the18 phone number out of the police report,19 and that's your solution. It's simple as20 that. If people are concerned, you tell21 them at the scene of the accident, this22 is public record, it will be available to23 the public in 30 days or in ten days.24
We don't25 71 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 think it should be. We don't think it2 should be. I think that's the basic3 disagreement here. We don't think it4 should be. Or at least I don't and I5 think the majority doesn't.6
Thank you9 for your testimony.10 Mr. Bradford.11 (Witness approached witness12 table.)13
If you14 could just give your name for the record15 and proceed.16
My name is John17 Bradford, and with all due respect,18 gentlemen, I disagree with the platform19 that you guys are coming from today. I20 certainly respect and value people's21 private information. I'm a retired Army22 soldier with a top-secret security23 clearance, and I've served my country24 honorably.25 72 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 Councilman Kenney, I don't know2 if you're using this to perhaps run for a3 bigger office and --4
Sir, sir,5 sir, really. If you want to talk about6 the bill, talk about the bill.7
Sir, sir,14 we set the rules in here. You want to15 talk about the bill, you talk about the16 bill.17
You don't19 talk about something irrelevant. Okay?20
Gentlemen, I21 don't believe that it's irrelevant,22 though. I didn't want to make a23 mockery --24
It is,25 73 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 because you're making a statement that2 you have no idea what you're saying.3
Guys, that's4 just my personal opinion. I didn't want5 to make a mockery of this meeting and6 bring Tent City up without me. But7 there's a reason I'm not dressed in a8 suit and tie, because I am one of the9 people. I've been in the front lines on10 this business. There are checks and11 balances to everything.12 I've spoke to Special Agent13 Vicky Henderson from the FBI, who did the14 fraud investigation with the City Hall15 employee who was arrested for selling16 police reports out the back door.17 There's a lot of fraud in18 everything that goes on in life, guys,19 but there's checks and balances.20 Commissioner Decker's office21 has the information for everyone that has22 these badges to get access to this23 information.24 I can't tell you how many times25 74 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 we speak to the public who just don't2 know about the benefits that they're3 entitled to, on the insurance companies4 telling them one thing, you're not5 entitled to any sort of compensation6 unless you're permanently maimed or7 dismembered. When someone is involved in8 an accident, even if they're not9 permanently maimed or dismembered, they10 are entitled to medical benefits if11 they're hurt, and this is a very valuable12 service that we're providing to people.13 I agree that there needs to be14 checks and balances with it. Anyone15 that's doing stuff fraudulently, it's16 like I told Special Agent Henderson, put17 plants on the list and catch these people18 red-handed. I agree that it needs to19 stop. I agree that there's a lot of20 fraud going on, but I also see the flip21 side of it where the insurance company22 oftentimes tells people -- I mean, let's23 say that the police reports become public24 record in, say, seven days. The25 75 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 insurance company tells people that they2 can't access it for 30 days, and really3 and truly, they're just sitting on it4 when they can have access to it and they5 just don't get it because they want to6 continue to earn interest on their7 billions of dollars that they're making8 in interest, and it just doesn't make9 sense to me.10 I mean, we're providing a very11 valuable service to the citizens of12 Philadelphia that don't know about their13 rights. They don't know what they're14 entitled to when they're injured in an15 accident.16 I agree that there's a lot of17 fraud that goes on, but it's a part of18 life.19 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:20 Councilman DiCicco.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not22 running for re-election, nor am I running23 for any higher office. I'm actually24 retiring at the end of this year.25 76 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 You keep referring to "we."2 Who are "we"? Do you have a company that3 does solicitation?4
I do. I do.5 I've had a presence in the public Records6 Department for years now, and we do7 things the right way. We educate people.8 We tell them about the benefits that9 they're entitled to as a victim in an10 accident. We help people. We're not11 committing fraud.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: When you13 say you help them, is that as a14 non-paying service or is there a fee15 involved with what you do?16
There's17 contracts that are drawn up, absolutely.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And how do19 you get your fee? How do you earn your20 fee for that service that you're21 providing to the uninformed public?22
If people use23 our network, if people want to use the24 network that we have in place, then --25 77 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Network is2 getting that information and providing3 them with -- just give us a little4 background on how that -- you go to the5 Department of Records. You pull up6 information on someone who may have been7 in an accident.8
Correct. Hi,9 Frank. I saw you were involved in an10 accident last week --11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Tell us12 the next step.13
Hi, Frank. You14 were involved in an accident last week.15 According to the police report, you were16 the victim of the other driver's17 negligence, and as the victim of the18 other party's negligence, you may be19 entitled to compensation and benefits.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. Now21 I say, Well, maybe I am. What's the next22 step? What do I do? What do you tell23 me?24
First and25 78 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 foremost is, I want to help you get your2 car fixed. Pennsylvania is a no-fault3 state. A lot of times when someone is4 the victim in an accident, they don't5 know how to navigate their way through6 that process. So we're going to educate7 them. We're going to help them with8 whatever their need is. If they need9 help getting their car fixed -- because10 if they call their own insurance company11 and they have a no-fault policy, their12 insurance company is going to tell them13 they have to go after the third party,14 and unfortunately, a lot of people just15 don't have the wherewithal to do that.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you'll17 refer that individual to a particular18 body and fender?19
I'll always tell20 them, Hey, if you know someone that can21 help you, absolutely, use your people.22 If you would like a recommendation, I'll23 be more than happy to recommend some of24 the people that are in my network.25 79 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you're2 like a referral. You'll refer them to a3 body and fender, maybe to an attorney4 that might be able to assist them with5 their --6
No, not to an7 attorney, because attorneys cannot pay8 for the same type of marketing services9 that a doctor can pay for.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So where11 do you get your fee from? The body and12 fender shop? How do you earn --13
Yeah, from my14 network of people. We can't be15 contracted with attorneys. They can't16 pay for these types of marketing17 services.18 Now, there's a lot of fraud19 that goes on in this industry with the20 tow truck drivers and runners and21 everything else. In my personal22 opinion --23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm trying24 to make a distinction --25 80 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311
-- your focus is2 in the wrong area.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm trying4 to make the distinction between your5 service and the folks that were out6 there, for lack of a better description,7 were called wreck chasers.8
Okay.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm10 trying to make -- it doesn't seem like11 there is.12
All right.13 There's a cable show on TLC right now,14 Wreck Chasers, and what they do, they15 want to race to the car and they want to16 get the vehicle hooked up and then they17 want to take it to their storage yard,18 and then they want to start billing the19 insurance company for storage fees that20 they're going to pay until they can get21 an adjuster out to do a legitimate22 estimate.23 I mean, they're not giving the24 people a choice. They're not giving the25 81 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 people a choice. They're strong-arming2 them, you know what I mean, and forcing3 them to use their network of people,4 guys.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.6
Seeing11 none, thank you.12 Is there anyone else here to13 testify? Sir, please approach.14 (Witness approached witness15 table.)16
Please17 put your name on the record and proceed,18 please.19
Yes. My name is20 Thomas Gregory Matiasek, Jr., sir. It's21 an honor and pleasure to be up here22 today.23 I'm part of Occupy Philly. I'm24 disabled, been disabled since I was 28.25 82 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 I've been trying to get off of2 disability. I only have a ninth-year3 high school education level. Okay? I'm4 at a disadvantage. But my grandfather5 only had a ninth-grade level, education6 level, and he came from the greatest7 generation.8 Education is knowledge. I have9 a three-year college in reading and10 comprehension level. I am smart. I want11 to empower myself. I need to empower12 myself. I don't want a handout. I want13 a hand up. Okay? And by you limiting me14 to public records that will enable me to15 help myself, empower myself so that I am16 not homeless, okay, would be a -- it17 doesn't stand for equality and justice18 for all. Okay?19 We have to create capitalism.20 You need a balance. You need the ook21 (ph) and an egg. You need the ying and22 the yang, the good and the positive to23 create friction, that creates power, that24 creates energy. You can't have the25 83 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 scales tipped too much. Okay? And2 that's what's happening with big, big,3 big. We don't need big. We need small.4 We need grassroots level. And please5 don't start from me by passing this bill.6 That's all I have to say, sir.7
Seeing11 none, that concludes the hearing of the12 Committee on Law and Government, and in13 one minute, we will go into the meeting14 of the Committee.15 (Pause.)16
This is17 the meeting of the Committee on Law and18 Government, and the Chair recognizes19 Councilman Kenney.20
Thank you,21 Mr. Chairman. The amendments as22 discussed in the testimony were23 distributed to the members of the24 Committee, and I so move the amendments25 84 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 to Bill No. 110631.2 (Duly seconded.)3
It's been4 moved and seconded.5 All in favor, please say aye.6 (Aye.)7
Hearing10 none, the amendments are adopted.11 Again, Councilman Kenney.12
Thank you,13 Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No.14 110631, as amended, be reported out of15 this Committee favorably and a request16 made for rules suspension to allow for17 first reading at our next Council18 session.19 (Duly seconded.)20
It's been21 moved and seconded.22 All in favor, please say aye.23 (Aye.)24
Opposed?25 85 10/19/11 - LAW & GOV. - BILL 1106311 (No response.)2
Hearing3 none, Bill No. 110631, as amended, is4 reported out of this Committee with a5 favorable recommendation and a rules6 suspension to have first reading at the7 next session of Council.8 That concludes the business9 before the Committee on Law and10 Government.11 Thank you all very much.12 (Committee on Law and13 Government concluded at 3:10 p.m.)14 - - -15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 86 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on October 19, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25