The construction 72 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 costs are $120 million. There is a $10 million program endowment that the board also is committed to raising.
Within the $120 million, is there money for this parking? Is that factored in?
Well, don't you have to build the parking before you can build the building?
Well, you know, that's certainly a good question. Let me help clarify it. The architect has designed this structure so that we can determine -- so that the addition of the parking will not cause a redesign of the structure. The foundation, the basics of it, the way the structural elements are determined are exactly the way it will need to be if, when we start digging, we dig down "X" number of more feet to accommodate the parking. 73 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 In other words, you know, in a building, as I have learned, you know, you have to have your structural elements in the right place.
I understand that. But you're saying at the moment, because you're over at the Planning Commission, you don't know how many parking spaces you're going to build or need to be required to provide, right?
Each space... Little bit I know about structured parking, whether above or over ground, each space has essentially a cost to it, right?
At what point in this process will you know how much parking you either want or would be required to have, to then determine how much that will cost? And at what point in the process do you build the parking? Do you build the parking first? Do you start working on the building and build 74 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 the parking subsequent under the building? How is this going to work?
Okay. No; the... We will need to know within the next six months, assuming things move along. We will need to know in the next six to eight months whether there will be the parking under the library or not. Because obviously you cannot start construction. However, what I was saying is that whether there is or whether there isn't, it will not change the basic configuration and elements of the library. It will affect how far down one goes and how -- you know, that kind of thing.
I understand that part. So my last question is: Let's assume for the moment that you are going to have underground parking.
And it will be whatever the number of spaces are. How are you going to pay for it? 75 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
That is a question that we have been looking into. We know that we have had great interest because of the high demand for parking in this part of Center City, that we have already experienced, that we know that there is interest from some of the private sector developers. And we are pursuing -- We will be -- When we know what the City Planning Commission believes is appropriate, that's when we will go ahead.
So you're not expecting to raise any money or use any of your estimated $120 million in project costs or your $10 million... I think you called it an endowment?
Madam President, 76 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 point of information.
Point of information. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Mr. Shelkrot, could you provide to the Chair -- I don't pretend to know a lot about architecture or construction. But it's hard for me to believe that we could build that facility and build it the same with underground parking; and if not, build it the same without the underground parking. Could you get a letter for the Chair from the architect stating --
-- stating that? Because, believe me, it's hard for me to believe that you could build that building and in one breath say you're going to put underground parking, and the next breath cancel that and continue with the same plan for a building that would have underground parking. 77 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 Again, I would love to see -- Is the architect for the building here?
I don't know. I know that Mr. Becker is here, who is our project manager. They may be able to discuss --
I'd like to hear from the person that's responsible for that model. Is anyone here from them?
Now. Right now. 78 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
Okay. Right now I think that -- I think Mr. Becker, Bill 4 Becker, who is the chief, the C.E.O. of the Becker & Frondorf Company would be willing to come to the podium.
Because I'd like to hear an estimate of what the parking would cost.
I have to ask permission of the Chair. Madam President?
I would hope that the two gentlemen with me right now could... Okay. Well, whatever Council would like would be fine; will be fine.
Madam President, could we hear from the architect or the design firm, in reference to this parking issue?
All right. There are Council members who have had their lights on for. 79 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
All right. I'll wait for my turn and ask that question.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
I thank you, Madam President, very much. I wanted to do a follow-up to hear a question regarding MBE/WBE participation and be clear that I understand what's currently in place. We have consultants currently on board who will have the principle responsibility for the oversight and monitoring of the brick and mortar portion of this project, correct? Is that correct?
What process or procedures will be in place for the handling of professional contracts, the legal work, the marketing work? 80 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
Okay. The legal work and the marketing work, this is already started with the... under the direction of the Library Foundation. And it is all of those things together that I'm saying in that professional work we are already meeting the goals, as established by Mr. Williams at MBEC.
Okay. That's encouraging. I need specifics. When you say of those professionals currently engaged, in any way, on any level are any of them MBE/WBE?
Yeah. The total -- The numbers percent. 20 But Mr. Mayello, Kelly Mayello, is a 21 minority construction firm. The... Or not construction. Excuse me. Architectural firm.
We know that... 81 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 Okay. Chilton Engineering is a minority firm.
You know, we have at this time two percent of the professional fees going to women. I would be happy to identify -- Is it six? Okay. I'm being corrected. Six percent. I will be happy to provide a breakdown of those firms for you, and we can do that when this adjourns. We can do that.
I'd certainly appreciate that, because like the stadiums and like Microsoft that we heard in great detail today, major new building initiatives jewels that are coming into our City, we want to get it right the first time around.
And what we don't want is to be back here 24 months, 36 82 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 months, 48 months from now reexamining issues around MBE/WBE participation or not.
Oh, absolutely. As I said earlier, we did that with the branch renovations. We are absolutely committed to doing that on this project as well, with the professional. And then when we move into the work force, the construction work force, we are doing the same thing. But we will get the details of what we have right now in front of you very quickly. We just have to circle the wagons --
I would appreciate that. And I thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam 83 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 President. Good evening. I wanted to follow up on the parking issue. Having represented the Parkway for some time, it's increasingly clear to me, based on discussions with a number of the institutions, that we have a parking problem and have had a parking problem, regardless of the expansion of the library. And my concern is that we're talking about potentially, or more or less probably, a very expensive parking garage, wherever it may be, not taking into the context of the larger parking problem. Does that make sense for us to look at only parking for the library? I'm assuming we're going to pay premium dollars and not address the overall parking problem to accommodate all of the various institutions that we currently have, and hopefully a couple of new ones that we're --
That's right. That's exactly why the Planning Commission is working on this. 84 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 It isn't just an issue for the library, but it is an issue for... If the Barnes Foundation moves to the lot across from the -- across 20th from the library, if the Calder moves along -- And as you indicated, there already is a shortage of parking. But we at the library do not want to -- We can't do that. It needs to be a coordinated approach. And that's why the Planning Commission is looking at it.
So your earlier response to one of my colleagues about being able to have the parking accommodated in this particular building may not even come into play.
I'm kind of getting mixed signals. One, you're saying the building was designed to accommodate parking; but the reality is the parking may not go there, based on your recent statements.
So I mean, are we looking to do it there? Are we not looking to do it? Do we have various options? I'm just trying to...
That is similar to the question that was asked earlier. And Mr. Becker, who is here and who is our project manager, and is a trained -- Did I say that? He is an architect, and is our project manager for this project, I believe can explain that to you in words that I just -- You know, it's just not my area of expertise.
Well, okay. That's fine. I mean, I understand. Councilman Rizzo asked earlier for specifics about the parking in the building. But I guess I'm kind of... I don't quite understand it. Are we looking at a parking plan generally to accommodate all the institutions or are we looking at parking to accommodate the library, or are we doing both?
What we're looking at 86 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 is -- What the City Planning Commission is looking at is parking for the various institutions along the Parkway. They're looking... And this needs to be a coordinated effort. Whether all -- Let's pretend for a moment that the Barnes moves right across 20th from us. It doesn't make sense for them to have a little bit of parking and us to have a little bit of parking, when it should be a parking facility that is useful to both. There is also the developer of the Whole Foods Store and the land surrounding that, who present -- who showed me yesterday a concept that he is working on that will involve -- that could provide substantial parking, as they are looking for ways of trying to expand the Whole Foods Store. I mean, those are -- You know, from my -- Those are speculative things, but those are the kinds of things the planning department has to get engaged in, and weigh in and say, this is what we believe needs to be done. We would prefer that this -- you 87 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 know, that the library... that there be parking available under the library. We would prefer that there's parking along with the Barnes. We'd prefer that -- You know, those are the kinds of issues, that we are awaiting their perspective and their planning on that. In terms of how we can build the building from... How we can design it from the ground up and have that design be adaptable to digging three or four, whatever levels of parking underneath, I have to defer to Mr. Becker for that.
Mr. Becker, I think -- If you don't mind, Councilman Clarke, I'm very confused. I don't know how we construct a building and then talk about underground parking.
If you can explain that. And I think that you have to try to give us a cost estimate. I think underground 88 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 parking becomes very, very expensive. And I think you would agree with me on that.
Madam President, since I -- Could I just add to that before he answers the question, please?
-- add to mine, that's fine, and Councilman Clarke's.
What I think I would like to know is, based on this design, what are the maximum numbers of parking spaces that could be in that building? And how much would that add to the cost of the building? That's all I want to know.
I'll be happy to answer all that. I'm William Becker. I'm a principal 89 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 of Becker & Frondorf. We are the project manager for the library. We recognized from the beginning that we had a timing issue because the Barnes and several other factors are in motion. But the library urgently needs the project to go forward. So our instructions to the architect are to design the addition and lay out the grid of columns in such a way that if we add levels below the library spaces, the column grid is set up to accommodate parking. Now, we have this beautiful conceptual design. It's called schematic design. It will take another year, another whole 12 months, for the architect and the engineers who are working with the architect to finish technical drawings that we need in order to start construction. So, the way we set this up -- That's why Mr. Shelkrot said, in about another six months we're going to have to make a commitment as to how many levels below our lowest level of library space would we need 90 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 to give you an idea of cost. For an underground parking garage, it costs approximately $40,000 per space to build underground parking. That's the construction cost. And if you add design fees, and so forth, it may be a little more. But in round numbers, that's a useful order of magnitude. So the answer is that to meet our needs, we've got a building design, total cost, including the endowment is $130 million. To the extent that we sink those columns lower and excavate more to accommodate parking, those costs are in addition. I hope that clears up the question. So it's not that we would start construction and not know. It's that halfway between now and the time we finish all the technical drawings and specifications, we need to decide. The architect has done a layout that shows what the garage level would look like. 91 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 So, we know it works, and it fits on the property.
Councilman Clarke. Oh, I'm sorry. I think Councilman Clarke originally asked the question.
Sure, on that particular aspect. That wasn't really what I was focused on. But I just want to follow that up by saying that I'm a little concerned that... Let me change that. What I would be interested in knowing at what level -- And the Philadelphia Planning Commission is involved in accommodating the parking needs of all of the institutions in a coordinated way with you guys, potentially the Barnes, potentially the Calder, and --
Well, we've had several meetings with the Planning Commission. And I 92 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 think to know what they're doing, they're the ones who should report to you. All I can tell you is that in our conversations with them, they recognize the need for parking. They recognize that the library is only part of the number of institutions that create demand, and that they are... And we know that they are undertaking a Center City parking study now, and that they are specifically taking a very close look at this area. They know what our timetable is. That's why we've met with them. They know when we need to determine how many levels, if any, of parking would be part of this project. They, like everybody else in the region, I guess, is waiting to hear what the Judge rules because that's a huge variable in any planning exercise. To get any specific information about how they're conducting their study, I think that's something that representatives of the Planning Commission should answer. 93 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
I would just like to ask a question on that. Could the cost be prohibitive, and that they would not be able to build the underground parking or would not be able to accommodate both visitors to the library and also others, like from Barnes, for instance. Where will people park? I think that's your question.
Yeah. I mean, we have a problem. I mean, every time I meet with the Parkway Council --
-- they want to know, you know, because it has infringed on the adjacent community for quite some time, not to mention a time when we have a function on a Parkway. I think right now we have like close to 20 functions during the course of the summer. 94 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 You know, I'm just really concerned about our ability to accommodate those needs, the current needs and the future needs. But you say you're not the one to respond to that. And I truly understand that. But you need to understand I'm concerned about that.
Madam Chair, just on this parking issue, one last question.
Becker. I'm sorry. At the $40,000 space price -- and 95 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 you said that there are actually some add-ons to that, so let's have a conversation at least in maybe a 40 to 50 thousand dollar space price, when you add it up. You're now at $4 to $5 million for a hundred spaces.
Do you have any estimate at the moment of how many spaces you would either build or would be needed or might be required by this Planning Commission analysis?
No. That's why we're working with them, and we're waiting for the results of their study. So, we don't have that answer.
All I can say is that when we met with them last week, I think -- Is this on? Yeah. We met with them last week, and they're aware of our timing. They know that the library design team is proceeding. 96 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 I think they are waiting for a Barnes decision before they --
A decision about whether the Barnes will come to Philadelphia.
And if so, whether it will be located on which particular site on the Parkway, before they can come up to their conclusions, in terms of the demand analysis.
Well, I mean, look; I know you're working with the District Councilman, but I mean, it would seem to me, Barnes no Barnes -- And we certainly would like the Barnes to come -- I mean, won't the library have its own needs anyway?
Our charge as a professional team, working with the library, is to direct the architects and the other consultants to come up with a design for the 97 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 project that meets the library's program needs for space. And that's what we're doing. We've also directed the architects to --
But their program needs for space... I mean, unless you're going to tell us otherwise, there will be more people coming just to the library, right? I mean, isn't that a part of the point?
And whether people want to check out a book, or look at the structure, or sit on the outdoor area and look up at the sky, I mean, they have to get there. Many of them will park.
I think that the library team is eager to work with other interested parties, to see if there are additional sources of money available to provide the parking. Everybody wants the parking there. 98 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 As several people said earlier, everybody wants this project. That's what we've designed for. We're trying to describe in this project a design that will meet the library's... its own functional needs, but to create a physical design that will accommodate parking, which will require additional funding.
Just a quick question for Mr. Shelkrot. Elliot, you mentioned earlier that the Five-year Plan included the debt service for this project. My understanding is that it includes debt service for '8 and '09 but not for 0'05, '06 and '07. Do you have any comment on that?
No, but I believe the Finance Director can respond to that. 99 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
I just want to finish up my thought on this parking issue. Based on the design of that building, with anticipation of doubling and tripling, why today can't you pretty much say that you're going to build a garage? And I'm sure there's limitation on how deep you can go, how many levels down that you can go. How many spaces can you build right now, based on what you know about the site? How many spaces? What's the maximum number of spaces that you can build on that site?
I'm trying to answer your question as directly as we can. It's approximately, in round numbers, 200 spaces per level. So, if we go down two levels, we can build 400 spaces. If we go down three levels, we can build 600 spaces. 100 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
If you go too far down, you might hit oil. You'd have to be careful.
The challenge... The desire is unanimous about providing parking. The challenge is whether we can work, our team and with the help of others, to find the funding to build it.
What I think you really need to do, and I think my colleague mentioned it, you know what your needs are. You know what your projection's going to be. We need to know what your need is, and if there's room for accommodating whoever may need parking, I think your concern is the library. And your... your... What word am I looking for? Not your guest. Your customers, whatever. You know what I'm talking about.
That library parking be exclusive to the people that come to the library. They should get first shot at it. So, I think you really need to come in with with a plan that says, we need to build 250 spaces, 400 spaces, and that's what the needs of the library is, and know the number. Because you're going to start a project and run out of money before you've got the roof on.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. Just on another matter. I've heard the dialogue and certainly agree with it, with regard to neighborhood recreation centers. Walnut Street west has been mentioned several times.
Libraries, not 102 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 recreation centers.
I'm sorry. Libraries. Sorry. Sorry. Walnut Street West Library. And certainly we do agree it's a lovely, lovely place. People have contacted me asking me about making sure that the library hours are still there. And I believe that between the Friends of the Library, and all of us, and the administration, that we should be able to find a way and can. They've asked me if that branch, for example, on some days, like maybe a Tuesday when the hours are minimal, couldn't they work it out where it's not open then, but open on Saturdays or on evenings? Because it is so widely used. But I believe that well-meaning people can work it out. We need this wonderful new central branch library. It is certainly a vision that has come to light. And we also need our neighborhood branches 103 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 operational. And I believe that with committed minds, we can have both. So, I speak for that, and certainly appreciate the opportunity; am available to work with you and any other person and/or organization who would like to. And thank you for your commitment to both. Thank you, Madam President. (Applause.)
Welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Let me underscore Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell's sentiments, and add as we go down this road, the level of commitment expressed by the leadership here around MBE/WBE participation is encouraging as well. I need clarification because we know this is an issue that will not go away, given the City's track records. The goals that you shared with me, 104 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 the names that you're going to share with me post this hearing, those are individuals and professionals involved for the future?
What we have now are the individuals that are on board currently, but that we have commitment from the architect who is the -- in essence the chief designer, certainly the most costly of the design professionals, to continue and to meet these as we go forward in the design of this building. Furthermore, we have a commitment from the Driscoll Company that if -- You know, and they are here for pre-construction, and they already are meeting those goals. If they are the ones, as we move ahead -- and we don't know that -- we have no 21 commitment that they are the company. But any company that is the... in charge of the construction will have to meet those requirements. And we will not back down on that. 105 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
So it will be the consultants who are in regular communications with the minority, with MBEC and President Verna's staff person on this issue or will it be a point person on your staff that's in regular dialogue with MBEC and President Verna?
Okay. The point person on that will be Mr. Becker, but if there are any questions that Council were to have or MBEC that need my attention if they're not satisfied, this is an issue that I am committed to and our boards are both committed to; and, you know, it will happen.
I thank you. I needed that clarification. And I'll look forward again to the document you share with us post hearing. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you very much. 106 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 Mr. McPherson, who is our next witness? MR. McPHERSON: Will the Finance Director please come forward.
Good evening. My name is Ray Zies, and I'm the acting Finance Director for the City. Would you like for me to go through my testimony or would you like for me to start with questions?
I think that you have heard what the concerns are of the members. Maybe you could really consolidate your testimony and really address some of the issues of concern by Council members.
Okay. One thing, when we talked about the increase in operating costs for the... if we double or triple the number of people that use the library, there will also be a corresponding increase in revenue that should help offset some of that... some of that increased expenses: Rentals, fines, things like that. 107 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 So, we would have to take a look at getting -- you know, working with Elliot, to come up with estimates for the revenues and expenditures. As far as... Trying to remember all of the questions. It is in the Five-year Plan for '08 and '09. There is nothing for '06 or '07. Under the current plan, where the library asks us to issue $10 million now, we are looking to do that on a short-term basis through a bank loan, some type of short-term borrowing. And the cost for '06 would be minimal. We're estimating less than $350,000 for '06. So we would have to make arrangements in the plan for that. For '07 the debt service would be, depending on how long the bond issue goes, anywhere from $2.1 million to $2.7 million. While we're working on the '06 to '10, which we will start shortly, we will have to come up with a funding for that. We believe that we can cover that funding under our current, with using our 108 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 current cuts, departmental cuts, we believe that we can cover that. We believe that this is a viable alternative for financing. We would be glad to, in addition, continue to explore other avenues. But I think, given the time constraints, we would not want to hold these bills up while we're exploring those alternatives.
I'm glad you said that because we only received this Ordinance last Wednesday evening.
It was after 5 o'clock. I think that you were here and heard about the issue about looking for alternatives.
There was the issue about PICA having approximately $27 million in interest earnings. 109 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 Has anybody looked into the possibility of contacting PICA, to see if we could use some of those funds or all of those funds to appropriately do this project, without going out for the bonds?
No, we have not, but that is an alternative that we would be glad to explore.
Also, the City currently has $24 million in the Capital Projects Fund. Could some or all of that money be used...
Sorry. We would have to -- We believe that there are current projects that those monies are earmarked for, and we would have to determine whether we'd need to do those projects. It's a matter then of, you know, Peter robbing Paul.
Would you be using monies from the Act 71 reimbursements?
There would be state reimbursements. I don't know what Act they are. We wouldn't -- I'm sorry. We wouldn't use Act 71 money.
But wasn't that money specifically earmarked for Youth Study Center? And if we're not using it for the Youth Study Center, what are we using it for, and why couldn't we use it for the library?
All right. Let me see if I have any other questions here. Can you please walk us through the transaction so I guess we could better understand it. 111 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
Yes, ma'am. If it would be possible, I have kind of a cheat sheet.
This handout will walk us through the financing lease structure.
First there will be a ground lease where the City leases to PAID the library ground. There will be nominal rent associated with that, and the term of that lease would be the same as the length of the bonds. Then there is the prime lease where PAID will lease the facility back to the City.
That's okay.l. Then there will be a prime lease where PAID will lease the facility back to the City. The rent that the City would pay would be equal to the debt service. And 112 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 again, the term of that lease would -- of the prime lease would be the same as the length of the bonds. Then there is a leaseback lease from City -- from the City back to PAID. There again, that's a nominal rent. And that's... The term of that would be coterminus with the bonds. And that allows the City to operate the library like they have in the past. And then in addition, there will be a lease and development agreement between PAID and the foundation, the Library Foundation. And the rent for that would be the land acquisition. And the term of that is the same as the length of the bonds. As you can see, the City retains ownership and all responsibility for operation, repair and maintenance of the existing and new facilities. PAID would issue $30 million in non-recourse conduit debt, repaid with rental revenues from the City, and provide proceeds to the Library Foundation for the development 113 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 of the project. The foundation, Library Foundation, would develop the project, including holding contracts for all design and construction. Did that help?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Zies, let's go back to a couple items. First, your testimony was that if there were additional personnel costs as a result of the expansion of the library, and additional people working there, based on what we all would hope would be significantly increased usage or patronage in the -- Patron use.
Not patronage. That your first recommendation was that as a result of increased rentals and fines?
I said it would help offset the increased personnel costs. 114 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04
Well, how much would you estimate the increased rentals and fines would be for an expanded library?
I -- I believe I said I would be glad to work with Elliot to develop those. I don't have any numbers right now.
Okay. But, I mean, it would -- For the moment, I mean, it would be hard to imagine. I mean, two or three public employees, I mean, you're easily with salary and benefits, I mean, you're somewhere in the sixty to a hundred thousand dollar neighborhood, easily.
Right? I mean, three employees at 18 apiece; 60. Add on the benefits at, you 19 know, 40 percent of whatever that number is, 20 and I mean, you're up close to a hundred.
All right. So, I mean, I just don't know that we can fund this on rentals and fines.
Well, I meant to say it 115 041039-041040-041041-041046, Whole, 12/8/04 would help offset the cost. If I didn't say that, I apologize.