Francis Jones, Government Affairs at SEPTA. There were several shelters that were in place. And when the stops changed from a nearside stop, to a farside stop, those shelters were removed. The shelters are under the jurisdiction of the City of Philadelphia and are coordinated through the City Planning Commission, specifically through Chris Zearfoss. We have been in touch with him, and at the point where we are coordinating the 225 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 installation of those shelters at the farside stops, where they were at the nearside stop before the project started.
And we really, really have an issue. And I speak for, I am sure, all my colleagues. When it deals with the city and it deals with our districts -- and we appreciate all people who work for the city -- but the decisions have to come through we as District Council people, who are responsible to neighborhoods. We have had some issues in West Philadelphia at community meetings where it has been said the Streets Department worked with SEPTA to do things. That doesn't help us at all. It only makes me get up and say, people who work for the Streets Department have jobs, I'm elected, you elected me to represent you, and listen to me. We have been there. And, so, we would like those -- you know, we have tried. I have tried to keep it down out there. We only had a few days where 226 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 we had demonstrations. And we have tried hard to keep it calm. But we don't like our stops moved. The bus shelters, you all can imagine, you have a shelter and then the bus stops across the street. So it is raining, you have a shelter where a bus doesn't stop. Then they pull them out. Then the issue of returning them. It is a nightmare. I don't understand, frankly, when we are going through so much with putting in a new SEPTA system, with all the problems we have, why we would create more with new programs, and not coordinate them. It just doesn't make sense. If we work together, then we have an opportunity. We can all agree that we can disagree, but we don't have to fight in public about issues and new programs. You know, you hear this farside stops. I didn't know what they meant; but, obviously, I have learned. And then folks get out and demonstrate, and you have got everybody 227 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 spending their time at night meetings. And then you get so many other people who may not have SEPTA as an issue who get involved. Because you always have some people involved when -- after a while who get involved because they want to be involved in maybe fighting the system or fighting elected officials or fighting SEPTA, or whatever. It just creates so many more problems than we need. We are asking, if you have programs you want to initiate, be clear or -- be clear. Meet with us. Maybe part of it -- I know you will say you told us, because you always do -- but a flier that's not clear doesn't do it. And you have got to meet with us and work with we, the elected officials, and how it impacts our communities, unless you have some elected official who is not interested. In City Council, we are first online. And it really, really affects us. And we have people who come here and who write us. Gosh, I should be getting a check from SEPTA, after all these fights all these years. 228 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 But it is such a nightmare. I, too, want to thank Oliver Thornton for all that he has done. He has been a very calming force and a competent force to keep us from fighting. You see I am calm today.
Not to disrespect Mike Tucker and all of you who are involved in it. But you have got to work with us. You have to work with us. Last night there was reportedly -- I got a call, in fact, from Julia Chen yesterday, is there a community meeting tonight. I told my staff to tell her I knew of no community meeting. I understand there was one with three people. She was the third person who attended it. There was a meeting last night.
We did not have a scheduled community meeting, Councilwoman. 229 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 The community meeting that we had around the proposed work that we're going to do at 60th Street was held on Monday evening. But we did not have a scheduled meeting out there in West Philadelphia last night. There was not one scheduled by SEPTA.
Well, there was a community meeting with regard -- who is Ms. Smith? For whom does she work?
That was a technical assistant's roundtable meeting for the businesses.
Was it a SEPTA meeting? Who called it a technical assistance meeting? Sponsored by whom?
It is a part of what we are doing to assist the businesses in the West Philadelphia -- in the project area. So it is a meeting that we do with them to provide technical assistance, to answer their questions, to update them on the project itself.
It is an invitation to all the businesses, and they can elect to come 230 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 or not come.
Well, apparently they didn't know. I didn't know. I told my community person, no. And you had three people there. Is not that a waste of everybody's time? But this is what I mean about coordination, about us working. Why have a meeting, when she called back today and said she went and she was the third person in attendance. And, so, who does that benefit? It just doesn't work well. And maybe it speaks to the fact that the business community is so distraught, and they don't want to come out because they can't believe. You know, people have kind of lost faith in what happens. And, while we are talking, let me ask you when the completion date is? Is it still '08? Can you give me a timeframe when you expect to be completed?
That has not changed. It is still '08. The only caveat I can give you is, 231 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 we are going out to bid for that final piece that -- actually, the fired contractor right at Cobbs Creek. That contract goes out for bid some time over the next 30 days, 30 to 45 days. So we might have to see what happens with that particular contract. But for the bulk of it, we are still saying December '08.
So now it is December '08. Is that contractor who was fired, who was still working on another part of the SEPTA system, that I had a problem with. Because if you are incompetent on one part, why are you allowed to stay on the other part? It insults all of our intelligence. Is that contractor finished with their role, their part?
No; they are still an active participant and doing well. This summer will actually be a major milestone for them, because they will be active participants in the outages for July and August. 232 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 They are doing very well. They are doing very well. They are doing it significantly differently than they did it on the other piece.
That's unbelievable, how one company does well on one part, poorly on another part, and we keep them on one part and not the other. None of that makes sense to me. It didn't from the beginning, it doesn't now. And I say that for the record. It doesn't make sense. We still have a problem. At the beginning of this project we asked that plates, metal plates or wooden plates or some kind of plate, be placed on cellar tops that are about to fall in next to people's homes. As you know, last spring we had to go out for a lady who was in a wheelchair, who couldn't get out to go to the doctor's because she couldn't roll over that and fall through. We asked that that be done for the whole SEPTA project. But every year from the beginning of this -- when did this project 233 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 start?
So from '98 until now, we still fight the issues of plates being placed over areas where the ground is weak, where there could be basements and cellars. We still have to fight those same issues. We still get complaints when neighbors don't get their trash picked up, all these years later. And it is just unconscionable to me that we have to fight those same issues, and that the project isn't organized such that we don't have the same problems, that we don't have to live with this issue every day. You know, I don't know why -- it seems to me SEPTA must have enough plates to cover this. I don't know why you just don't cover them, and why we have to fight to make sure that people are safe and that trash is picked up.
Councilwoman, we have 234 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 done inspections, and we do them on a regular basis. Those cellars or those areas where the area appears to be weak, we have covered those, we have plated those with steel plates. So the problem should not still persist.
And if you have examples, please give them to us, because those are safety --
We go through this every year. We hear this, my colleagues, but you will hear it again this spring. It happens all the time. We have been dealing with the same issues since '98. It is now '06, and we still have to -- every time you begin a new part of the SEPTA system, you take them from wherever they are, you put them in the new -- and we have to ask you. You take them up, and then we start all over again. It just -- you know, it is just not fair. It is not fair for people to feel that 235 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 they are second-class citizens in their own neighborhoods. It is very frustrating, you know, when seniors come and say, I'm -- well, I won't talk about a woman's age. But, you know, when you get seniors who come and say, my business is closed down, I have to work for someone. I guess we have lost Shapiro's, was a Philadelphia institution, even that closed. And I guess we have lost about 27 businesses now. And I don't know how we survive. I don't know how we survive in the future and how we sustain businesses, how we draw businesses, and what will be left by the time '08 comes, what businesses will be sustained. But it is very, very frustrating. Because not only has this job been organized such that one area starts and you work on it, one phase of it, then you finish that phase, then you go to another area, and you do it over and over again, so there is never any real continuity for when businesses are open, 236 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 when they close, when they can be accessed, when they can't. So the public can't get to the businesses and don't know when it happens, in spite of the fact that you tell me you flier, you it will me you answer the businesses, you respond to them. I have heard it over the years, but it just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. Now that we have Easter coming up, what are the plans for advertising them, for access, and where are we with regard to the holidays?
Councilwoman, we are working in collaboration with the businesses and with our consultants to develop an advertising plan that would include Mother's Day and Easter, because we know that those are holidays that are quite important to the businesses in the commercial corridor. And, so, it is a collaboration with them, sitting down with them, to come up with a marketing plan that would work. 237 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 We know that there will be some concerns that they will have regarding the area where there is fencing. But we are making every effort to make sure that foot traffic is accessible in and around the area where the businesses are located. Particularly around 60th Street, which will be the area where we will be working during that time.
Shouldn't we at this point, from '98 until '06, shouldn't we now have some experience at knowing how to deal with businesses and what to do during holidays?
Yes; absolutely. Because we have worked with the businesses over the years, particularly around the specific holidays. And, so, because we know that those holidays are important to the businesses on the commercial corridors in the neighborhood, we are making sure that we craft a project, a program that will work for them.
For this year. Because 238 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 the needs and the emphasis of the businesses could change each year. So we sit down with them every year to make sure that we craft something that addresses what they hope to achieve.
We also want to mention the issue of ticketing. As you know, when you change gear all the time, people get ticketed. And then we bring in the Parking Authority and the police, what's safe, what isn't. That changes all the time, too. And, as you know, we have had to go to Congressmen to try to get help with regard to tickets. Will you assure us that you won't give people traffic tickets that they can't pay?
Councilwoman, we have been coordinating and worked very diligently with the Parking Authority, with Sultan Ahmad. And I want to go on record saying they have been very cooperative in working with us in crafting a program, again, where 239 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 there was a moratorium on parking in the project area. But I would be remiss if I didn't say -- we talked about it on Monday night with the businesses -- if someone is parked by a fire hydrant, if someone is parked on the sidewalk, if someone is illegally parked according to the standards, then the Police Department and the Parking Authority will give tickets. The moratorium is in the area that has been designated for parking, in that specific area. But we have worked with the Parking Authority and the captains in the three respective districts to ensure that there is a moratorium on parking. But illegal parking, we don't have any control over.
Well, I don't know what "illegal" means. If we are talking fire hydrant, it is one thing.
We are talking fire hydrants. We are talking parking on the 240 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 sidewalks. We are talking about diagonal parking, when they should be parking horizontally. So, those are the kinds of issues.
I don't know what diagonal and horizontal parking means. That's such a minor -- in my mind, it seems so -- I don't care whether they park diagonally. People have nowhere to park. And, I mean, if we are talking safety issues, if there is a hydrant or something like that.
But in terms of whether they are parked on the sidewalk or whether they park -- you know, it seems to me that we have to give some leeway, when everybody is so displaced, and there is no place for people to go and no place for them to unload and no place for people who live right there to park. So we really, really need -- we 241 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 really need some consideration on those issues. And the other issue --
Could you please go back to what you just said a second ago about a person that is illegally parked in a bus stop or illegally parked impeding the flow, let's say, too close to a corner, impeding the flow of SEPTA traffic. What did you just say, you have no 15 what?
I said, if they were parked by a fire hydrant, if they were parked on the sidewalk, or if they were illegally parked in the street.
Let's talk about, since we have so very few police, you have a fairly significant police department. I was informed by the Parking Authority that your police officers have the ability to write a parking ticket in a bus 242 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 stop.
So how come we have to send Philadelphia Police, and tie them up, when you have a police department that should be able to respond to take care of that?
Just points of clarification. The answer we gave initially was just for the construction corridor that Councilwoman Blackwell had talked about, in terms of being more lenient, I guess, with the ticketing process, given that many are displaced. For the area you are talking about, to the degree that supervisors are there when they are illegally parked, they can be ticketed. But we don't have supervisors --
If a bus driver sees a motor vehicle parked in a bus stop -- you have two-way radios; correct?
We have a radio that can call our control center, yes. 243 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
Correct. Why can't a SEPTA police officer be dispatched to deal with that, and to relieve that responsibility of our Philadelphia Police?
I don't think it is one or the other. I think it is a collective effort. So if the city police are there, they can ticket. If we are there, they can ticket.
Sure. But in a bus stop, a SEPTA driver observes a vehicle parked, why burden the Philadelphia Police Department, when you can have one of your police officers come out there and issue the traffic violation?
Well, you don't. I talked to the Philadelphia Police Department.
Oh, we do ticket. We do a ton of tickets, illegally parked cars. 244 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
Not on how I just described. If a person calls 911 and says that there is a vehicle parked in the bus stop, Philadelphia Police come out.
If they call 911, because we don't have access to that. If my bus operator calls my control center --
We will see if we can do that, then. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much. We are concerned, too, about the crosswalk as we -- I mentioned this recently. There is a daycare on 56th Street. And there were these no-crossing zones with the big X's in the sidewalk. Something new that's come out in the last couple of years that create more problems. 245 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 And this daycare, the principal complained to me because she said they put no-crossing zones in front of her daycare on both sides of the street, so her kids -- she can't stop it for the babies to cross the street either way. They can't stop in front of the doorway and they can't stop across the street near the parking lot for First Grocer. So they knocked her out of kids' ingress and egress from the daycare. So that happened when they -- that happened for the new 56th Street station. So what can we do in that instance?
Which goes back to Councilman Rizzo's point. That, in those situations, we actually try to keep the bus stops clear, so that we don't have to ticket. In this case it sounds as if, by keeping it clear, we took parking.
I don't know, maybe it is bus zones. I don't know what it is. But it is those no-crossing zones. So what are people supposed to do? 246 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Why would they put one in front of a business, so that a parent can't stop there, as she has these previous years, to let toddlers out? This is a daycare.
While the station was under construction, that area was not used as a bus stop. And, in fact, the bus was detoured and was not on 56th Street. When the station reopened and the bus was returned to 56th Street, in order for the bus to curb, we had to hatch out those two or three parking spaces, which, inevitably, took a parking space in front of the daycare. But it is necessary in order for the bus to curb at 56th and Market.
But I don't understand. If it wasn't that way before, why is it that way now? She didn't have those problems before the new station. This is those new crossing, no-crossing spots that they just put in front of her daycare.
It is the hatching that is in place, that we put in place for the bus 247 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 to curb.
We will look at it. Because a bus stop was there. We might have lengthened the bus stop. So I just asked the engineers to look at the spot to see if we did lengthen the spot.
Maybe she can let the babies out. They can't stop in front of her business and they can't stop on the other side, so they have no place to stop. And, as I said, these are pre-schoolers, and these are the little ones. And we have a new station, but they made it harder for her.
We will double-check and we will circle back with you to see if we extended the space.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 248 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 I would like to follow up on that. I would appreciate it that -- you have a fine police department, substantial, that has responsibilities in not just in Philadelphia, but in other counties. That we develop -- and I think you may want to ask your chief, because I will check with the Police Department to see if you follow up on this -- that they sit down and talk to see, when calls do come in or your drivers see vehicles impeding their traffic. I mean, I watched a bus the other day trying to make a turn here in Center City. I mean, it was kind of -- it was comical. Because there was a car parked on the corner. The articulating bus tried to make the turn. The bus driver wouldn't move the bus. He sat there and would not move the bus until the vehicle was moved. And it was interesting. The vehicle that was illegally parked was a SEPTA vehicle. And I could hear the driver, basically, saying that, I'm not moving the bus, I am not allowed to back the bus up. I don't know what that's 249 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 about. And he and the other SEPTA employee got into an argument. It was an orange SEPTA vehicle. But it was kind of -- it would have made a great TV show, to see what went on there. So I think that we need to get the Police Department and SEPTA Police together. If there is a 911 call or, I think, more so your own employees observing vehicles, and asking the SEPTA Police to come out. Because the 911 people are so backed up with their work, to go out and have to enforce, since you already -- if you didn't have a Police Department, I could understand. But I think that they need to get focused on some of the things that they need to do. Could you explain to me the right-of-way? I had a constituent call me, knowing today were the hearings. As an example, the right-of-way where the light rail runs between North Philadelphia and 30th Street. I know that there is other than SEPTA that uses that corridor. 250 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 And the person said they will e-mail me digital pictures. And also they pointed out that the cleanliness of the right-of-ways are starting to get abandoned car bumpers, other just trash. It is just people that ride the train have even mentioned to me that it is very, very bad. Who is responsible for the cleanliness, the cleanup of the right-of-way, since -- I assume that you have right-of-ways that are just SEPTA, and then you have Conrail and SEPTA, and other CSX, or whatever. But it is really getting unsightly, some of the areas. How do you deal with the cleanup of your right-of-way?
For regional rail, a lot of our traffic is on Amtrak-owned right-of-way, and we actually pay them a fee to be on the system. 251 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 So if it is Amtrak owned, they are responsible, then, for the maintenance of it.
Would it be possible -- and I know we don't want to load a lot of burden -- but I assume that there are people that work with you that can report back to you to let you know. When people get on SEPTA, they don't know about -- you know, they are not fortunate enough to know that Conrail and Amtrak and this track and that track. All they think is, SEPTA.
Is there someone that could make an inspection of the areas that you have, that your trains run on, to just give a fast, dirty report on what exactly the conditions of those are? Because it is embarrassing to put a visitor -- maybe Conrail doesn't care about the cleanliness of the right-of-way. But I know when visitors get on, and we encourage them to use SEPTA, they see that and they say, my God, is this a dirty city, even though it 252 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 is off the beaten track a bit. What do you think we could do to lean on them a little bit? But areas that you have exclusivity, take care of those first. And then have somebody give you a report on, really, what the conditions are of those areas?
I will tell you we have an infrastructure group. And part of their charge is looking at the conditions, our conditions daily, weekly, you know, some periodic basis. To the degree that there is something seen and it is Amtrak related, we have contacts and we tell Amtrak, et cetera. Amtrak, unfortunately, is in the same situation as SEPTA, with limited dollars and going through a lot of struggle. They are going through a great deal of struggle, but that should not prevent them from taking care of their property.
Car parts, bumpers, shopping carts, all kinds of debris and trash. And that was between North 253 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Philadelphia station and 30th Street. So that's, obviously, not a good situation.
That's Amtrak. But we will send somebody out, and we will also make the phone call to Amtrak to remind them.
Just people that don't ride the train frequently are the ones -- I think most of the veterans probably just accept it as a way of life. But people that don't ride regularly, they are taken aback by the condition of those areas. I want to ask you about, was there at one time light rail, in SEPTA's history, from the western suburbs?
One of SEPTA's predecessors, one of the train operators, did have service coming out of Reading. It was terminated in 1980.
By whoever that 254 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 predecessor was. I don't know whether it was Penn Central or -- but it was before -- or, it might have been SEPTA.
It could have been SEPTA. But it wouldn't make a difference. SEPTA or predecessor, it is deemed to be SEPTA. But in 1980, service was discontinued.
I said this once before. And I think Ms. Jones may have been here, may have not been here for this statement that I am about to make. We are about to get hit a double whammy. We are losing people by the minute. They are heading to the western suburbs and other areas, Bucks, Montgomery, Delaware, New Jersey. But let's just talk about the western suburbs. We have lost their residencies here. Many of those folks still come back to 255 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Philadelphia to work. We are now experiencing people communicating with me saying, I'm about to shop for a job outside of the city because I just cannot deal with driving 40 minutes to go to Norristown to get onto a train, or am I going to fight -- and we all listen to the traffic reports -- the backup of 422, the only state highway that gets people into Philadelphia. And I know you are talking about -- and I forget the terms -- new rail. But when that rail was shut down from Reading in 1980, I assume there is a right-of-way, I assume -- I understand there are stations that have been just abandoned. Those folks that moved away from the city, that continue to work here, are now getting to the point where they are fed up with the commute, they are fed up with having to put the dollar in the SEPTA parking lot. That's a pretty good deal, by the way. There is no criticism of the service at that point. I had one individual tell me 256 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 that he can't remember when there has been a problem with the train from Norristown to Philadelphia. But it is kind of -- he is to the point where he said, Frank, I am going to -- now I am not even going to work in Philadelphia. He is having an interview in a couple of weeks as an executive with a pharmaceutical company in Collegeville. So I think eventually we are going to start to lose. We lost them, we lost their residencies, and now we are about to lose the jobs. What are we going to do? Has anyone looked? Is it practical to consider that track that we had in the ground at one time that we closed in 1980, to revisit that? Because, as you know, it is no 20 secret, the western suburbs is the hottest part of the Commonwealth right now, and most people that live there came from Philadelphia. What are we going to do to help people get into Philadelphia from the suburbs, especially that particular area, and keep them 257 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 at least employed here?
I will tell you, Councilman, that track is no longer a SEPTA or SEPTA-related track; it is a Norfolk Southern track. There have been major discussions headed by the Secretary of Transportation, even, with Norfolk Southern. SEPTA's at the table. Reading, my counterpart for the Reading transportation center, is at the table. Any initiative that we have looked at is a billion dollar initiative. Because you just can't do it from Reading to 30th Street. You know, you are really looking at how you are going to connect it. It is a part of the various analyses or alternatives being evaluated for Schuylkill Valley Metro. And, either way, it is an expensive undertaking.
Schuylkill Valley is a whole new configuration; correct?
Part of the configuration is from Reading, all the way 258 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 into Center City.
And that's the one that you indicated was shut down in 1980?
It was SEPTA in 1980. I am saying SEPTA. It could have been a SEPTA predecessor. But SEPTA, effectively, abandoned that line. It is now Norfolk Southern's line.
Would you agree, though, that people that have to fight that transportation issue into Philadelphia every day really need some relief? Because, again, I think we are just going to continue to lose jobs. And people just don't want the hassle of an hour-and-a-half commute. And, realistically, this proposal 259 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 that you are talking -- what's it called again? Schuylkill --
How many years realistically, even if you had the funding, is that out?
Even with funding, if you could accelerate it, you are probably talking five, six, seven years, even if you started today.
And part of what the valuation includes for Schuylkill Valley Metro is that shift in, I guess, the demographics of where people live. And part of our dilemma is, we still do not have enough density of population that the ridership projections, even for 20, 25, or years down the highway, suggest that enough 22 people will be on the system to make it pass 23 certain tests that the federal government 24 would ask us to try to pass. 25
If they put a 260 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 toll booth on 422 East in the morning and 422 West in the afternoon, I think they could pay for it.
I am just telling you. Listen to the traffic report in the morning, and you will hear about a 40-minute backup coming into the Schuylkill Expressway. I am disappointed to hear that there doesn't seem like there is going to be much relief in the near future.
No. Because even if Norfolk Southern were to do the service and attempted to start the service right away, you are talking about major upgrade of the tracks, you are talking about creating stations, building stations. This is not a small undertaking. It is not putting a train from Reading and running it into 30th Street. You are talking about rebuilding the infrastructure from Reading all the way to 30th Street, culmination of Norfolk Southern and a little 261 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 bit of Amtrak and a little bit of SEPTA.
Just for me to end this conversation. So I understand now, so I can understand this better, right today there is a dilapidated, closed train station in Reading, Pennsylvania. There is a right-of-way with a track, a couple of tracks, going in each direction, possibly deteriorated or unused at this time?
That a train at one time used to be able to leave Reading, come through Limerick, Pottstown -- I don't know.
I don't know the course. I do know in 1980, we stopped service from Reading.
But it came from there, and it came to 30th Street Station.
Could you please arrange for someone to give me a briefing so I 262 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 can intelligently understand? Because I just heard recently that an elected official in Bucks County -- you probably know -- they are leaning on SEPTA to do something similar. What's that about?
There has been a Quakertown study done to restore rail, and that is in Bucks County.
That's the issue, then? Could you get somebody to give me a briefing on exactly what exists, what it would take to reactivate what we already have? I am not talking about Schuylkill Valley, something brand-new. What's there, and what it would take to put that train back on track. I like that. Put the train back on the track. Get this back on track.
I think we have those estimates provided to us from Norfolk 263 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Southern, so we can share those with you.
We abandoned it. The last train that SEPTA ran was 1980. And it was abandoned primarily because there was no 8 ridership.
Yes. But 1980 to 2006, it is a whole different deal now. Somebody somewhere in SEPTA made a very bad decision. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a few quick questions. On of your testimony, you discuss the job shadowing, you discuss the Keystone Partnering Apprenticeship Program that's been in place for four years. Speak to how that's going, and what percentage of the students ultimately land an employment opportunity with SEPTA. 264 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
Okay. I will deal with Keystone first. The Keystone Career Ladder is more for existing SEPTA employees. We were experiencing a major gap in some of our more highly skilled mechanics. So we worked with TW Local 234, who represents our bus operators/mechanics. And came up with a joint program where we would accelerate training, offer the individuals an opportunity for promotion. And the union sort of embraced it because it did give additional skill sets. So that one is more for us. It has been successful. We are continuing with it. And it has been so successful that it is being, I guess, mimicked, copied in other states.
We were having a problem with some of our -- we have mechanics second-class, first-class, with first-class being, you know, the super stars. 265 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 We were having some difficulty with the first-class mechanics, promoting people to first-class, because they couldn't pass certain tests. Keystone helped us develop the curriculum that will enable them to pass the test.
Yes. So we have seen more and more people test into the next category for mechanics. And that has been very successful. And we got several grants from Department of Labor out of Pennsylvania. And it has also been used as the anchor for a major program for a community transportation center based in D.C., where they have applied to the federal government and just received a million dollar grant to try to roll this entire program, or a similar program, out to the other parts of the country.
And then the program connected with the school district? 266 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
That's a new force. We will have our first graduation next month. I think we are graduating eight students. So it is new. It is, effectively, our effort of trying to develop apprenticeships. We actually want -- in conjunction with the school district, we want to be able to help show people on-the-job training, you know, basic work skills. You have to get up in the morning, you really do have to go to work, et cetera. So I'm excited about that graduation.
We will look forward to the continued progress of that.
We are calling it a pilot. And we have to evaluate it after this year. But we are hoping that it is as successful as I have been told, and that we can continue it.
I read with interest in this document American City and County where they discuss a new initiative 267 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 underway in New York wherein hybrid buses -- and I am reading the headlines -- hybrid buses find a place in New York's efforts to clean the air. And they have purchased X number -- ten hybrid electric low-floor buses from some place in Ontario. So, of course, my question is, given the pluses about the use of hybrids, where there is far less brake wear and what, roughly double the mileage between brake replacements, is there any potential of the Board and/or leadership there at SEPTA to look strategically as whether or not that might be a place for our city to go?
We have already looked strategically, and I am happy to report we already have some. I think last check on fleet size, we might have introduced I think about 20 to 30. I know there were 20, and we exercised some options. There are at least 20 hybrids. And these are located at the same Southern 268 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 District that I mentioned. They are low floor. It is a combination diesel/electric hybrid, which is what New York has done. The industry previously had looked at some hydrogen, natural gas. That didn't work out very well. You know, that was -- it has been proven that the hybrid electrics might be a better route for the agencies to take. And we are extremely pleased with our buses. The results have been fantastic. We are getting great mileage. The only down side is, the fuel is quite expensive. It is very expensive. So on the surface, it costs you about the same to run the hybrid as it did a diesel, but it is environmentally friendly.
Okay. That's good news. You also discuss on , what do they call it -- well, my question is this: Is the city liable for an incident on a regional rail outside of city limits? 269 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Where ultimately does the liability fall when a worker, visitor, or student is traveling to and from the city? Is the city liable for an incident that happens on regional rail, if it is outside of city limits? I am just curious.
Whether it is inside the city limits or outside the city limits, the responsibility is SEPTA's.
I see. Okay. The RIOS program. Of the 144 incidents, is this a significant decrease or -- it is on of your testimony.
That would be the drop from crimes. And that time frame that we were looking at, I think it is about -- since the police moved over to SEPTA. It was a very high number initially, and it is down to about the 140. So a major, major drop. Some 90, 95 percent drop in crime since the Police Department moved into the jurisdiction of SEPTA.
And I presume SEPTA Police and Philadelphia Police talk all 270 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 the time, when needed?
I will say, yes. I will absolutely say, yes. And we serve on several committees together. We are doing a lot of emergency preparedness drills together. Our SEPTA police train at the Police Academy. So, there is a great deal of collaboration.
Then my final question is around what you all call a portable neutron sensor device. You anticipate purchasing more. And are they incredibly expense?
Extremely. Extremely. But, we had to actually evaluate the heavy expense versus delaying our customers. We also don't want to continue to be a significant drain on the bomb squad of Philadelphia. So these devices will help the city police, as well as our police. They will initially screen. If they don't sense any danger, you know, we don't have to call the 271 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 bomb squad. So we don't have to call them out as often as we were calling them out. And, unfortunately, in today's world, suspicious packages, an innocent briefcase left on a train, stops the train. So now we don't have to delay our passengers hours, you know. It is a 15, 9 minute exercise, and then we can be on our way 10 again. 11
Is this a trend 12 of major transportation systems across the 13 country, the purchase of these devices? 14
I can't project for the 15 other agencies. 16 I do know that it is a pilot, that 17 we are the first transit agency to actually 18 employ these two devices. 19 We have gotten a great deal of 20 interest from other transit agencies, other law enforcement agencies. We have done several demonstrations, and they have been very well populated. Certain federal government agencies are indeed looking, I think, with now one 272 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 federal agency looking to purchase this device, as well. If the pilot holds true to the things that we think it can do, I cannot imagine that other transit agencies, who have the same dilemma that we have with suspicious packages, but I couldn't imagine they wouldn't employ some device similar to this.
Thank you. Councilwoman Tasco, thanks for your patience.
Thank you very much. I want to go back. I didn't want to interrupt when Councilwoman Blackwell was offering her questions. I just want to say that I certainly am sympathetic to what's happening in West Philadelphia. I go out there quite frequently. And it is very, very sad and tragic to see what's happening to those businesses due to 273 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 the magnitude of the construction out there. So I certainly hope that you all can get that done. Because, at the end of the day, you may end up with nothing. I have lived in West Philadelphia for ten years, so I know those areas very well. And I was out there yesterday, and it is a very sad sight for those people who live there. And it is very inconvenient and has a strong economic negative economic impact on this city and that community.
I want to go back to the Paratransit. Since now all the buses are handicapped accessible, what is the contracted arrangement do you have with Paratransit? Has the budget decreased for those services?
Okay. I can tell you that we have not made any efforts to reduce the Paratransit budget. We outsource it to various carriers 274 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 in the City of Philadelphia. That has not changed. We are, actually, awarding tomorrow at the Board meeting a contract for some $60 million -- a great deal of money -- to continue the Paratransit service in the City of Philadelphia. I will tell you that it is becoming more efficient because of the way we have it structured. So we have not reduced the level of service, but the costs are starting to come down.
But you reduce the level of service when you require the handicapped people who have disabilities to use the buses. That cuts down on your ridership, doesn't it?
Well, we hope so. We hope so, on one hand. But, let me explain that a bit. A Paratransit ride could conceivably cost us 35 to 40 dollars. A fixed-route ride could cost us, what, dollars, maybe 275 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 dollars. To the degree -- and the ADA requirements tell us that the service for ADA should not be separate and distinct. To the degree we can integrate them, we can make the disabled community more mobile by getting them to the fixed-route system, that is our charge. Get them to the fixed-route system, if indeed they can maneuver on the fixed-route system. The recertification is done in such a way for those that have grown accustom, let's just say. They could have maneuvered on the fixed-route, if it were ADA accessible. They have grown accustom to using service, as opposed to the fixed route. So they are quite upset that we are moving them, but that opens up more capacity for those folks that are truly disadvantaged and cannot ride the fixed-route system. I also want to remind you that our Paratransit, our shared ride, are commingled. So our seniors never have the opportunity to 276 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 be kicked off. It does not impact our senior citizens at all. It is merely those wheelchair -- mostly wheelchairbound patrons, to see if they can maneuver on the fixed-route system.
So you haven't decreased your ridership on the Paratransit because you are reevaluating and requiring more people to go to the fixed stops?
There might have been 400 trips, 400, removed out of the 8,000 daily trips that we perform.
Is there any corresponding cost to that? Would you give the same contract for the same cost? How do you determine what the contract price should be?
It is determined by trip, by revenue hour. So if they put 10,000 hours out there, we pay them a fixed amount per revenue hour.
It is bid; it 277 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 is contractually bid. Joseph Casey, Chief Financial Officer for SEPTA.
I think the question was, how do we determine what a revenue hour is. Was that the question?
I am trying to figure out, if you lost 400 people, then you have cut down on some time.
Not necessarily. We removed 400 individuals that could ride the fixed-route system. But those 400 trips have been more than consumed by other people. Because now we have more capacity, so we are filling those 400 holes that might have existed with new people. So --
When we look at the budget, we are looking at potentially a 10 percent increase for next year for 278 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Paratransit.
We have not kicked people off the system with the idea for reducing the costs, not for Paratransit.
I just want to add, a lot of our vehicles and our station work is funded by the federal government. And the federal government is investing a lot of money to making the system and the vehicles accessible, et cetera. So there is a decision, there is a policy for the federal government, if you can use the system, they want you to use the system that's available.
It gives them, actually, more options. And we are finding out -- we work very closely with our disadvantaged committee. And they are our counselors, our advisors. We are meeting with them periodically. When we did the recertification we made sure one of them serves on the panel. So we take our responsibilities for the ADA requirements very seriously. 279 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
This is not a criticism, this is just to give you some information. Yesterday my granddaughter called to find out how do you get from Diamond Street -- she is a student at Temple -- to the bus. 8 She was told to go to Broad and 9 Olney to get the 23 bus. And the 23 bus goes 10 out Erie, you know. 11 And then, of course, she found out 12 she could take it from down 11th Street. She 13 was given all that incorrect information. 14 That's just an aside. 15
And for us it is a 16 serious aside. So in your casual discussions, 17 just make sure she calls customer service. 18 Because if she did, I have a whole arena that 19 I would like to follow. 20 And this will be a perfect example 21 that I can give them about how our actions 22 really do impact people. 23
Thank you, 280 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 Councilwoman. As you know, we have had some discussion today even about Paratransit, because we get calls from people who have been cut. Councilman Nutter.
A couple. All of these are related to the Market-Frankford project. Recently I have been contacted by two different constituents. One is the Willcrest Products and Services Company, 6011-13 Market Street. I would like to be able to get to you a copy of a letter laying out any number of concerns that this particular business has related to the project. And, apparently, they have been in contact with SEPTA on at least one occasion, for the document that I have. Numerous 281 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 issues, it looks like about ten different items, which I would like to be able to get to you. The second is, I would like to ask if we could have a meeting, a discussion, with regard to, apparently there has been some, it looks like, legal action regarding Debonaire Cleaners at 6009 Market Street, Mr. David Taylor, who is a long-time constituent, well-known to people in the community. I don't want to get into all the details of that matter in this situation, but I do at least want it on the record that I have some concerns about that. And I think at least a meeting, so that I can better understand the situation. And maybe even Mr. Taylor, as well.
I believe that the organization is sensitive to the impact of the project. I think you have a pretty clear understanding, because of your personnel out on the site, whether SEPTA personnel or other 282 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 consultants, of the impact on people. But Councilwoman Blackwell has talked about this, and then done more than talk about it, and has taken any number of actions. I have certainly done my best to be supportive of those actions. But beyond -- at times in these situations, beyond the money that may be involved, there is a real human cost and impact to these kinds of projects. I understand the goal is to improve the rail system. And as we, you know, sometimes can say with these kinds of projects, a short-term inconvenience for a long-term benefit. In some of these matters, though, some individuals and/or their businesses will never recover, will not survive, and they will become casualties of this project. I certainly would hope that we would never, ever accept, you know, either a casualty level to something like this or that they are just the collateral damage that goes with major development projects. 283 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 I think most of us probably could not have completely and totally and fully estimated what the real impact would be. Not just on the cost of the project, which has escalated; not just on the time of the project, which has been delayed; not just on all the internal machinations that SEPTA has had to deal with in terms of Contractor A and Contractor B and then what happened to Contractor C, and get rid of them and bring in D. But, you know, this is a real neighborhood with real people, businesses, and residents. And their lives, in many instances, will be forever changed. I think we have a debt to pay and some obligations out here which have been unfulfilled. And to the extent that we can be as creative as possible -- there have been some efforts, I know, even whatever their size. We know that they have been certainly smaller than what the true nature of the cost has been. 284 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 And, so, I want to revisit the issue of how we try to make some of these individuals if not whole, then certainly close to that. I received the December 2005 affirmative action progress report. I wanted to ask a couple of questions about that. It also is related to the Market Street Elevated reconstruction project. A couple general background questions. The first page of it talks about employment opportunity, or equal employment opportunity, total hours worked. And then there is a second chart, disadvantaged business enterprise, DBE. So the preliminary questions are, what is the difference between the EEO goals and the DBE goals?
Councilman, the EEO would be people oriented; the DBE would be company oriented.
So for equal employment opportunity, when we say total hours worked, this is as of December 2005, and 285 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 the number is 756,145?
As part of the requirements for getting federal money, there are certain goals that are established by the federal government. For the government goal, the minority goal, I think, was hovering around 12 percent, with the -- 13
This is EEO. Right now 15 we are only talking EEO. 16 We increased that goal to 26.4 17 percent, which is what you see there. So this is some 9 percentage points higher than what the federal government suggests in their literature. And we did it with a conscious effort with the businesses, the employees, potential employees, worked with the FDA. But that 26.4 percent goal is just 9 percent greater than the federal goal of 17 percent. 286 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 The female goal is also established at a federal level. The residential goal is a voluntary goal that we have imposed upon ourselves. And we have asked, then, the vendors associated with the project to accept the goal. And we are happy to say they have indeed accepted. Because the federal government does not allow you to dictate a residential goal, it must be voluntary.
These federal goals, what are they based on? Population, demographics, size of project? How does the federal government determine what these goals should be on a particular project?
I'm not sure. But it is published yearly in a circular, and then provided to us. So --
Are they the same in Philadelphia as they might be in Boise, Idaho?
I'm not sure. The only circular I looked at was for the one 287 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06 specifically for this metropolitan area. But we can double-check and give you a quick little summary of how it is done.
And at what point in the contracting process are the goals set?
Early. It was to be in the planning stage and they have to be set before the contracts are let.
It is contract specific, not for EEO. This is a project. These are goals we expect to achieve throughout the project. EEO.
DBE is more contract specific, and those are set for each individual contract.
And what about professional services? 288 FY '07 OPERATING BUDGET HEARING - 3/22/06
Same thing. The goals are set prior to the solicitation going out.
Now, I am looking at the document. On the DBE page -- I'm sorry. Did I mention DBE's? For professional services contracts, you are anywhere from percent to 50 10 percent. How do you determine that?
I am on the professional consultant service contract. The pages are not numbered. It is the last page.