civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - March 5, 2025

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Mar 5, 20258h 36m

have much greater requirements than their predecessors and so in this instance

Similar wording

um right we cannot do that so with that i would simply say uh there is no detriment to the health

Similar wording

safety or welfare of the neighborhood again the only objection even raised at any point was parking

Similar wording

we're offering the only legal parking there is no legal parking on the street and we're only putting

Similar wording

we're only seeking the least minimum variance is uh you know two units as opposed to you know any

Similar wording

additional units that could be supported here why don't you have your is just the owner here you

Similar wording

have or uh no i actually have uh you should see tom wysocki okay online do we see him

Similar wording

he texted he texted me that he was on okay thank you

Similar wording

can you hear me yes we can could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

Similar wording

it's thomas wysocki w-y-s-o-c-k-i you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but

Similar wording

the truth i do please proceed counsel thank you uh mr wysocki you're here on behalf of mnt property

Similar wording

or property llc the owner correct yes and did you hear all the testimony i already presented in this

Similar wording

case yes and did you believe it to be true and correct to the best of your knowledge information

Similar wording

and belief yes and would you adopt it as your own yes do you have anything pertinent that would be

Similar wording

separate and apart from what i've already testified to that the board should hear no sir thank you

Similar wording

very much questions from the board uh could i just ask my uh architect to adopt my testimony

Similar wording

what's he what's he going to adopt your testimony to yeah just adopt my test thank you very much

Similar wording

um mr hernandez mr hernandez could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

Similar wording

h-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the

Similar wording

truth please proceed i'm sorry this is the court reporter could i ask the witness to put the

Similar wording

microphone yes thank you jose hernandez h-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z do you swear or affirm to tell

Similar wording

the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth please proceed counsel thank you very much uh

Similar wording

i do please proceed counsel thank you very much uh mr hernandez you're the project architect for

Similar wording

mr hernandez you're the project architect for this

Similar wording

this project correct correct and did you hear the testimony that was already presented in this case

Similar wording

i have do you believe it to be true and correct to the best of your knowledge information and belief

Similar wording

yes would you adopt it as your own i would and similarly uh separate and apart from anything

Similar wording

that's already been testified to do you have anything else pertinent and relevant for the

Similar wording

board to examine i do not thank you uh questions from the board yes a question um with the

Similar wording

parking on both sides of the street like that are you going to have the kind of turning radius that

Similar wording

you need to even have cars get into these legal parking spaces i i would certainly say yes but i

Similar wording

would allow mr hernandez to testify more distinctly so with the the units that have

Similar wording

the garage doors there's less parking there that are not currently residential units so the sidewalk

Similar wording

is wide enough where you can make the turn and come into those units um to that uh the western

Similar wording

side of the property is there a curb cut yes already there there's currently curb cuts in

Similar wording

front of each of the uh garage doors okay and you're you're building up correct two-story

Similar wording

addition on top of the existing one story ah okay so board member gaston if you if you would i just

Similar wording

pulled back up the photo yeah you can see uh again the two white doors are our doors there's no

Similar wording

parking in front of those doors and so uh that allows for the turning radius across the sidewalk

Similar wording

all right to get in now you can see from the way that car is parked i mean how are you

Similar wording

go park like that it's going to be a little difficult i would think to um make that turn

Similar wording

and you can't and you can't control how illegally people are going to park right correct yeah you

Similar wording

can make the call, but yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you. I guess my question is given that

Similar wording

the side of the street that this is on is the RSA five single family side, and there's not that

Similar wording

many properties on that side of the street that are more than two stories. Could you walk me

Similar wording

through the justification and the decision to include the parking and not do a two story two

Similar wording

unit building i'm sorry so let me just restate that to make sure i understand your question

Similar wording

so why would we not why would we add two stories here to have a unit on the second floor and a

Similar wording

unit on the third floor as opposed to a unit on the first floor second floor what is one floor

Similar wording

one window parking certainly uh so so multi-factored on that and it was considered first of all we

Similar wording

would in order to uh get to that situation we would have to demolish the entire first floor

Similar wording

there are party wall conditions there's excavation concerns um you know this is an existing condition

Similar wording

which which is fully built out um secondly in you my client works here and you uh he already

Similar wording

adopted my testimony he can speak further to this if i if need be um there are parking concerns in

Similar wording

this area and again if we did seek to just put two units in there would be no parking if we sought

Similar wording

to put in one very large single family house it would not be sellable in this area because it

Similar wording

would be you know 6 000 square feet we would need far more parking than two individual apartment

Similar wording

units and there would be no parking because that parking wouldn't be allowed similarly if we put

Similar wording

um two single family houses that would be commensurate with this area if we had enough

Similar wording

depth we would first of all be back here asking for an extension in the rear yard um but they

Similar wording

would also then require it more parking than two uh individual apartment units so that was that was

Similar wording

the primary factor was trying to be contextual to the neighborhood um also maintaining there there

Similar wording

will be maintained a limited commercial use in the rear so if i went to the uh the floor plan

Similar wording

and i think i got sidetracked here um storage so there there is commercial storage in the rear

Similar wording

and that commercial storage in the rear is going to remain so uh this this bay is separate and apart

Similar wording

um that will be one of the parking spaces another parking space will be on this side

Similar wording

that's a much larger wider side so Mr. Wysocki will be going around that built uh that existing

Similar wording

car when it's parked there and having his material stored in the rear um and I would assume there

Similar wording

Um, and I would assume there, there may be, there is not now, but there may be a condition

Similar wording

there may be there is not now but there may be a

Similar wording

where they put up some demising wall just to keep the commercial use from the parking

Similar wording

use.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And then my second question is, uh, the height of your third floor, do you know how that

Similar wording

compares to the other structures on that street?

Similar wording

The elevations.

Similar wording

Actually, in the later.

Similar wording

In the RCO package, I have the RCO presentation.

Similar wording

What page?

Similar wording

I say this, and I'll say this for the record and for the rest of the board, like this is

Similar wording

going to be the first of a series of warehouses on this block.

Similar wording

So what happens here is going to set the precedent and be the case for anything else that comes

Similar wording

behind it.

Similar wording

Yeah.

Similar wording

So we are 34, eight or 34, 34, eight.

Similar wording

that we are 34 eight so we purposely stayed below the uh height limits in this zoning district i

Similar wording

didn't ask about the height limits i asked about the existing buildings you know exactly so i just

Similar wording

wanted to say i pulled up the rendering uh in context um while we were talking i was stalling

Similar wording

so i could get it up for you got it okay you try not to stall too yeah just say i'm looking for

Similar wording

the rendering only in order to answer a question um so what you can see here is an up and down the

Similar wording

block um and again if i go back to the the outline page that i was on before um you can see the

Similar wording

heights vary so uh on both sides of the street actually on the rsa5 side of the street the

Similar wording

heights are significantly taller than anything that uh we'd be building it's actually just our

Similar wording

side of the street that still remains low uh in the middle and at the ends uh goes up to

Similar wording

that your side of the street was the rsa5 street and the side across was the multifamily

Similar wording

so it's actually both i apologize i was trying to go fast and then i always yeah i'm just going off

Similar wording

what you told me um so it's actually there there are pockets on both sides here we go um

Similar wording

So our property is right here in the middle, this highlighted blue.

Similar wording

I'm not sure how or why this side, the eastern side, was made RSA 5.

Similar wording

Again, that has all the existing commercial uses.

Similar wording

And then there's also the RSA 5, which is actually mostly single-family houses, although there are definitely multifamily there, in the pocket on the other side.

Similar wording

and then sort of kind of surrounding us like we're the middle of the donut and then surrounding us

Similar wording

entirely on all sides is rm1 cmx 2.5 or cmx2 um so i apologize if i misstated and said that this

Similar wording

rsa5 was only on the other side of the street uh frankly if the rsa5 was only on the western

Similar wording

side of the street uh we wouldn't have to be here because we'd be by right yeah make make your night

Similar wording

just a little bit shorter all right other questions from the board questions from our

Similar wording

attorney um just one quick thing um with the parking spaces they're not referenced on the

Similar wording

refusal and i understand you said the curb cuts were existing i'm just a little bit concerned

Similar wording

that they're they aren't on the refusal because there weren't if it was a warehouse use before

Similar wording

there wasn't necessarily like accessory parking as part of that application and i could find no

Similar wording

zoning history for the property so i wasn't sure if it might be better to i don't know if it could

Similar wording

be corrected or amended i'd have to ask ellen i about that to include two accessory parking spaces

Similar wording

because if the board is inclined to grant because i'm just concerned that it's not in the description

Similar wording

i mean i'm happy to proceed however it would make you feel most comfortable

Similar wording

i believe it is covered by the existing prior non-conforming commercial use

Similar wording

because there is i mean if you had cars there that were the part of the commercial use you

Similar wording

would be accessing that as it wouldn't necessarily be like accessory parking spaces like if it was

Similar wording

just a warehousing or like pulling in and out it wouldn't be designated parking so um i mean if

Similar wording

you don't mind waiting a week i can ask al and i if you know if this needs to be noted on here

Similar wording

because i do see you got you went to streets and got the streets permit and everything

Similar wording

i just am concerned it's not listed on the refusal so i just don't want to cause problems later

Similar wording

absolutely we're happy to proceed however yeah just so just a week i just need to actually

Similar wording

3 30 yep or two o'clock two o'clock yep okay two o'clock yep and is the oh wait a minute planning

Similar wording

two hands okay

Similar wording

Two hands?

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer?

Similar wording

What's his name?

Similar wording

Daniel?

Similar wording

Butler, Trubman, Daniel, what's the second name?

Similar wording

Oh, I know, yeah.

Similar wording

When do I let you speak, Patricia DiCarlo?

Similar wording

Okay, right now.

Similar wording

Right now?

Similar wording

Yeah, but do me a favor.

Similar wording

Please state your name and spell for the stenographer.

Similar wording

Sure.

Similar wording

Patricia DiCarlo, capital P-A-T-R-I-C-I-A, capital D-E, capital C-A-R-L-O.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Ms. DiCarlo, are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Not only am I a neighbor, but I'm also the chair of the RCO for NSCA Phila.

Similar wording

I was at the meeting, at the hearing, and with all due respect,

Similar wording

the presentation that was made was for the four apartments, not two.

Similar wording

The parking was not offered.

Similar wording

It was made clear that the electrician owner would have the commercial

Similar wording

and have his truck there also.

Similar wording

At the end of the meeting, so what they presented, the architectural design, was four apartments, not two, as the gentleman has said.

Similar wording

Number three, I noticed that when I came into the meeting, there was a gentleman who lives on that block and he was upset that the block had not received a notice on a timely basis and that more people needed to have been there and weren't.

Similar wording

So at the meeting, there were only two residents from the block and both were absolutely against this project.

Similar wording

I then, because I live there and I'm the chair of the other RCO, not the one that coordinated, I went to the block to talk to people and realized that there was a lot of opposition to it from the residents of that block.

Similar wording

The large buildings that have been shown are at the end of each block, which faces Diamond Street and Burke Street, which are large streets.

Similar wording

So it makes sense that the end buildings are large buildings.

Similar wording

Most of that block, like he said, it's a very narrow street.

Similar wording

most of them have two-story old old-fashioned original houses then there's some that are

Similar wording

three-story and then it's been invaded by a second street is on one side of pail forb and

Similar wording

um hancock is on the other side second street is a large uh mostly commercial and that's where

Similar wording

those multifamily humongous buildings are, but then the back of them faces Pale Fork.

Similar wording

So that's just to give you a context of what the block really looks like, as opposed to what's

Similar wording

been described. When I talked to the neighbors on that particular block and realized how much

Similar wording

they were opposed to what was being presented, I wrote up a petition for them that has been

Similar wording

included in the package. We the undersigned residents of the 2000 block of Pailthorpe Street

Similar wording

hereby signed this petition to oppose the building of anything other than single-family homes

Similar wording

as required by the zoning code. This is a narrow street with two-story single-family homes

Similar wording

recently affected by multifamily buildings

Similar wording

starting on 2nd Street to Pailthorpe.

Similar wording

They don't need more of that exaggerated building.

Similar wording

So we have, and you should have it in your package,

Similar wording

we have the signature for 23 residents of the block

Similar wording

of the block and 14 different addresses.

Similar wording

and for...

Similar wording

So it's not like it's just a few.

Similar wording

It's quite a bit of people who were signed the petition

Similar wording

and are opposed to this project.

Similar wording

And for me right now, I'm even more disturbed

Similar wording

by the lack of, what do I call it, clarity, actual facts that the gentleman here has presented

Similar wording

as having been something that they did at the RCO meeting.

Similar wording

The RCO and the plans that were presented by the architect were the four apartments, not two.

Similar wording

At the end, they said, oh, well, we could look at two apartments.

Similar wording

But that's not a legal definition or response to what they presented.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Mr. Carlo, we appreciate it.

Similar wording

Do you have any questions for Mr. Carlo?

Similar wording

I do not.

Similar wording

No, thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Carlo, we appreciate your comments, and thank you.

Similar wording

Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

Similar wording

but do you have the copy of the petition with you I do okay good I do I saw your name on it

Similar wording

right okay thank you um no okay if I may respond briefly okay but I I would simply again thrust

Similar wording

and Mr. Hernandez was there Mr. Wasaki was there uh we very clearly presented only two units we

Similar wording

said up front that the refusal was four units because we didn't want any confusion but that

Similar wording

we were only moving forward with uh two units and you know i can show we did we did the mailing as

Similar wording

required and actually uh what i've only shown a couple of pages from because i didn't want to

Similar wording

waste your time going through the whole thing is this document that we've scrolled through

Similar wording

is actually the JKRP architects RCO presentation so the floor plans we showed that only show two

Similar wording

units the heights that we showed that only show two units everything comports back to only two

Similar wording

units that that's all we presented to the RCO and there certainly was a petition that appears to

Similar wording

have been done almost none of those residents were at the meeting so I don't know what they thought

Similar wording

or heard or were told about the project uh and by my count i believe there were eight separate homes

Similar wording