I thought it was where the individual lived. INSPECTOR BULLICK: So, I mean, I could stop you at Grant and the Boulevard, and if you're from North Philadelphia, it's going to show that more people from North Philadelphia --
If we did expand this into four more police districts, it would probably have something to do with your abandoned 54 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 vehicle. You know, it would probably get under there. I mean, I'm not making policy for the Police Department. But would you need more personnel for this operation, or do you think that you could handle it with just Sergeant Bea? INSPECTOR BULLICK: Sergeant Bea's doing a heck of a job.
I've known him all his life. He's a good guy. INSPECTOR BULLICK: I don't think there would be a major difference because the officers would be working out of the district. There would be the 911 answers.
But this is more of a question for Mr. Healy, it's a legal question for you. You did go to law school, right?
All right, thank you. Has there been any litigation to the Department about the enforcement of the current Live Stop that we're doing in the four districts, 55 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 not counting the 25th?
You can tell he went to law school. (Laughter.) (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
This is probably for you, Inspector. If the City doesn't enforce the confiscation of this program, and this might be your program, Mr. Healy, can the State police come in and do this?
I would believe the State police have equal authority to enforce the State law, yes.
Not that we would want them to do this; I just want everybody to know this for the record. But, you know, it's getting close, and I know we really want this to get done. If the State police runs the program, would they -- they would incur all of the revenue from this, and we would get none possibly. Is that safe -- am I safe in saying that? 56 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664
And so if we can get over the actual the concerns that Councilman Clarke has, and they're legitimate concerns 'cause I hear what he's saying and we've talked about this, but is there a way that we could possibly establish a rolling Live Stop Program? Maybe not do it citywide, but we could do the four districts the Judge is talking about for a while, and I think the judge has a reason for them four districts. I would venture to gain he thinks they're going to get some cars that are worth a lot more money. This is my uneducated guess, but that are worth a lot more money than we're getting from the other districts.
Well, when we introduced the Live Stop Program, we did it on a rolling basis; it did roll through the City at certain points.
I think it hit almost every district. INSPECTOR BULLICK: We did 57 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 demonstration days once a week, I think, at different districts.
Logistics-wise, 5 Inspector, was that a problem? 6 INSPECTOR BULLICK: No. 7
Because we were -- 8 INSPECTOR BULLICK: But we were doing 9 one at a time. 10
Right, right. We 11 weren't doing one and a bunch of other ones. 12 Okay, I don't have any other questions 13 for these witnesses. Does anyone else have any 14 questions for these witnesses? Darrell? 15
All right, thank 17 you. Thanks for coming, thanks for your 18 inconvenience. 19 INSPECTOR BULLICK: Thank you. 20
Gerry Lamparter, 21 Traffic Safety Activist. 22 (Witness comes forward.) 23
My name's Gerald Lamparter, and the last name is spelled L-A-M-P-A-R-T-E-R. I'm a public safety activist 58 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 who specializes in traffic issues. The subject of vehicle impoundment has been my number-one focus for the past nine years. First I want to speak about how we negatively impact ourselves by not enforcing the impoundment law, and then I want to propose a plan that is a compromise between full enforcement of the law and we're doing what now. The lack of vehicle impoundment law enforcement encourages unlicensed and dangerous drivers to continue their illegal and careless driving habits because they know they can't be punished. It's as if they've been granted immunity from obeying our traffic laws. Many of them use phony names when they're stopped by police for committing traffic violations. In Philadelphia in 1998, 220,000 tickets were issued to phony names. Last week, I listened to my scanner radio as a Northeast cop ticketed a man who has never had a driver's license, but he already had 11 unpaid tickets on his record. After the officer issued more tickets to him, the man was permitted to drive away. Another driver who was stopped by police had had 59 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 his license suspended since 1989 for a drunk- driving. He, too, was simply ticketed and allowed to drive away. In Pennsylvania motorists who don't have valid licenses are times more likely to be 7 involved in fatal crashes than licensed drivers. 8 Why? Because they are unsafe, careless drivers. 9 Many people feel that our insurance 10 rates are too high, and that's why tens of 11 thousands of Philadelphians drive without auto 12 insurance. I believe there are ways our rates can 13 be reduced, but we cannot expect our rates to drop 14 in Philadelphia if we're not enforcing our traffic laws. Auto insurance will never be affordable for every person who wants to drive, and even if people could buy insurance for only $100 a year, there would still be many drivers who wouldn't buy it. Look at how many people won't spend $2 to replace the dead batteries in their smoke detectors. I'm sure that many of the illegal drivers who say they can't afford insurance have received so many tickets for running red lights and stop signs and for speeding, that their rates 60 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 would be so high that few people could afford to pay them anyway. But that's their own doing. But the issue of vehicle impoundment law enforcement is far more important to each of us than just dealing with uninsured motorists. Performing traffic stops is an extremely important crime-fighting tool for the police, but here in Philadelphia, the motivation to do traffic stops is greatly reduced because issuing so many worthless traffic tickets is very demoralizing to the police officers. About ten years ago, New York City police started arresting people who, rather than paying the transit fare, jumped over the turnstiles in the subway stations. Some people questioned why the Police Department would waste its time on such a petty offense, but when the police arrested these people, they found that 20 percent or more of these turnstile jumpers were wanted criminals and were carrying illegal drugs or weapons at the time of their arrest. Fortunately for us law-abiding people, most criminals have one particular thing in common: They do stupid things to draw attention 61 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 to themselves, and it seems that nowhere are these stupid things more prevalent than when they're driving away in a vehicle after they have committed a crime. This past February late at night, police officers made a traffic stop on a car that was being driven with its lights off. It turned out that the man inside had murdered a woman six hours before they were apprehended.
A police officer stopped the car because the license plate was in the window, which is a violation of traffic laws; it should have been mounted in the usual place, on the rear of the vehicle. When the officer looked into the back seat of the vehicle after he stopped it, he saw a Dunkin' Donuts bank deposit bag that was taken in a robbery and murder 15 minutes before. Had he not made the traffic stop, he would not have apprehended those people. By not allowing our police to vigorously enforce the vehicle impoundment law and our other traffic laws, we are helping criminals to be mobile during their criminal activities. Normally a police officer cannot search 62 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 a vehicle during a traffic stop. However, when a vehicle is impounded, an inventory search is made the police officer in the presence of the driver to protect the City against accusations that any belongings left in the vehicle at the time of impoundment are missing later if and when the vehicle is returned to the owner. Common sense would dictate that some illegal guns and drugs may be found in some of these vehicles. In comparison to the almost total absence of vehicle impoundment law enforcement that we have now, I have a proposal for a temporary plan that I believe will be a win-win situation for everyone, except the dangerous drivers. The intent of my proposal is to impound the vehicles driven by drivers who have lost their licenses due to not paying their traffic tickets and/or lost their licenses due to their histories of driving dangerously -- running red lights, stop signs, speeding, DUI convictions, and so on. Since it's unlikely that these drivers will have auto insurance when each of these cars is impounded, it will also be another uninsured vehicle taken off the road. Vehicles should also 63 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 be impounded when no driver's license record can be found during a traffic stop because the driver has either given a phony name to the police officer or the driver has never had a license. However, when dealing with a driver whose license is suspended only for having been caught driving an uninsured vehicle, but he has no 9 ticket for careless driving violations and he has no outstanding tickets, do not impound the vehicle; just ticket the person for driving without a license and without insurance. That's really no worse than we're doing in most of the City now anyway. While my proposal is only a partial enforcement of the law and it's not a cure-all for the uninsured-driver problem, it's far better than what we're doing now. Since we seem to be unable to tackle the entire uninsured-motorist problem at this time, let's at least constructively attack the worst part of it and work toward reducing the number of crashes. Thank you.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? 64 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664
I really appreciate your testimony. However, did I understand you to say that if someone is driving with a suspended license, we should simply give them another ticket? Is that what I heard you say?
If the suspended license -- if the cause for it was because they were found previously driving without insurance.
We heard 14 somebody mention the fact that somebody had 20 15 suspensions and was still driving, which meant 16 that he had to be stopped 20 times and charged 17 with driving with a suspended license. 18
Well, I think it 19 was that he couldn't get his license for 20 years 20 'cause every time he got stopped, it's a year, so he got stopped 20 times and --
Well, in that case, he has a suspended license for a dangerous violation, 65 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 which is driving with a suspended license. If I chose to drive without insurance because I say I can't afford it, and I'm stopped for a violation, I would pay my tickets, and I would serve the suspension. So at the end of the suspension, I can get my driver's license back. But if I choose to continue driving on that suspended license, then I should have the vehicle taken away. In other words, the person's not being responsible for the tickets he's gotten.
Any other questions for this witness? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, the next witness is Joan Pfaehler. Did I say that right, Joan? Thank you. Thank you Mr. Lamparter. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. Thank you for allowing me to appear today. I appreciate this opportunity.
Can you state your 66 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 name and spell it for the stenographer.
Oh, yes. It's Joan Pfaehler, P-F-A-E-H-L-E-R. I just wanted to express my feelings today with regard to the impoundment law against those that are driving without valid driver's licenses. If you saw yesterday's Daily News, you may have seen this article. These are my parents, Violet and Harry Young. On October 18, 1999, at 12 noon, my father was crossing Academy and Grant Roads to go get a loaf of bread for my mother. At that time, he was hit by a car. The driver, Shannon Burke, did not have a valid driver's license. She had three prior offenses, and since that accident, has had two more offenses and owes your City of Philadelphia $3,000 in fines. My father was taken to Frankford Torresdale Division. He was diagnosed with brain trauma and a blood clot. From Frankford Torresdale, he went into a nursing home where spent the next seven months and just went downhill, and he passed away in May of that year. My mother was a emotionally affected by this, and 67 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 two weeks after my father's death, I ended up putting her in the same nursing home. My mother never attended my father's funeral; she was not emotionally able to, she just totally shut down. Since that time of the accident, we have spent $72,000 of my parents' hard-earned money. My mother and father were married years 9 before they could afford a down payment on a home. 10 They lived in Pennypack Woods, which is a housing 11 development in the Northeast, for 12 years. 12 I hear -- I understand that many people say, Well, I can't afford car insurance, so we drive without it. Well, that's sad. My parents worked long and hard. And you were 21, Councilman, until you could get your car and have insurance. Gentlemen, you've got to take these people off the street, these unlicensed drivers. Have them pay their fines, as our judge wants them to do. This has been a very, very difficult time for our family. And if there's anything that I can say today to you people is you've got to do something more than is being done now. 68 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 Thank you.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
Seeing none, thank you. And thank you for coming down, we appreciate it. Mr. Thomas Carbine. (Witnesses come forward.)
Mr. Carbine. State your name and spell it for the record and that of your colleagues with you.
My name is Dominic J. Carbine, and I have a business in Philadelphia. I am also a member of the American Street Business Association, and we have a committee that meets monthly in connection with the police. And on that committee, we have Jordan Lepow. L-E-P-O-W is his last name, Jordan Lepow, and he's at Fifth Street Auto Parts, at 3101 North Fifth. And the Executive Director of our business association is 69 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 Raymond Jones, and he's located at the Impact Services, headquarters up in North Philadelphia. At our monthly meeting, which we have jointly with the police, we have been fortunate to make a few suggestions which have been to the benefit of the City of Philadelphia. And one of them was that the fact that abandoned cars should be removed. And from that activity, you will probably recall -- have had it brought to your attention that the Mayor of Philadelphia thought it was a great idea and supported that suggestion. The new mayor of Philadelphia came along, he loved the idea, it was a good suggestion. And there were a -- they counted up about 30,000 cars that they removed from our section. Since then, they've continued the activity and they're adding more. Because, really, it's a dumping ground in the East Division. And there's -- an effort's been made to try to change the perception of what individuals who don't live in the area can do easily if they have accepted a suggestion and a mission to abandon the car. It's very simple: drive it up 70 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 there, jump out, take the el, and you're out of town. And so, in an effort to try to accomplish a couple of problems that we have, one of them is with the chop shops, which survive and thrive in our area, and which you occasionally read about. They're major activities. The neighbors know that it's going on but they are reluctant to speak up because they don't want the retaliation. So we have to approach the problem in a different way. So these are matters which we have suggested -- have discussed at our meetings. And it was -- finally, the 25th Division came up with an idea, and that is that if we could use some kind of a pilot program with regard to Live Stop, which is permitted under the laws of the State of Pennsylvania and the City of Philadelphia, where we would, at the time of a traffic infraction, ask for the proper credentials that include the license and registration. And the thought was that if they did not produce those credentials, that the car would be seized then, that the person would be put on the sidewalk, and this person would be -- then have a more of a 71 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 problem about getting himself back to where he came from. We thought that that might be worth pursuing, and so we called it a pilot program for Live Stop. That program was discussed with the Managing Director's Office, and the suggestion that the Parking Authority make available their tow truck because they have all the facilities. So that on planned occasions throughout the East Division, there would be Live Stop activity. The concept was that the -- through the Parking Authority, it would mean maybe 10, hours a week 14 that would be devoted to this, possibly on three 15 separate nights. m. m. Their considered opinion is that that's the time of the day or the evening or the night when things are happening that result in the chop shops being supplied with the cars that they need to meet the orders that they have for parts, etc. So -- but after much effort, the police said to us, We're not making any progress whatsoever at the administrative level of the City, and we're asking you as businessmen, would 72 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 you try to bring to the attention of the persons who are most concerned that the business people would like to see this pilot program, this pilot Live Stop Program implemented. And it's with that in mind that I'm here today.
And in this connection, as you hear about the various things that are going on in the City, the question that comes up is costs and what are we going to get out of the it and what's it going to cost us and so on. Right now, there's one thing that's happening up there in the area which is -- you will see obviously it's costing the City, and that's the transaction of these so-called used cars which take place on the street. And I've asked Jordan Lepow to come with me because he's in the business of being a legitimate car dealer. " So that he finds that it's rather strange that the City doesn't seem to be interested in the fact that the transactions are taking place and that the City is losing a portion of the transaction, which would be under the 73 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. " The State, of course, is losing it as well.
Excuse me, Mr. Carbine. Is this the gentleman you're talking about?
Thank you. My name is Jordan Lepow. I'm the coordinator for Fifth Street Auto Parts and Allegheny Auto Parts. We've been located in North Philadelphia for approximately 74 years. I have 47 years in the business, and I know most of the phases and most of the problems that are occurring in the 25th Police District. It's very difficult to operate our business in the area, the reason being that we're not allowed to keep our cars out on the street, 74 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 we're not allowed to keep them on the pavement; yet, we have a parking lot license, I have a dealer's license, I have bonds from the State bonding insurance. Everything we need we have. And then 200 feet away, a man has 7 cars on the street they do ticket the cars, but 8 the cars are not in his name. He buys them at the auctions. It's in someone's name. He never gets a ticket. He sells the cars. In the last five days, the police made me remove my cars. He has sold nine cars; I have sold none. Now, we've been there 74 years. The problem also, besides I'm not selling cars, the City is losing a lot of money, and they don't realize it. Go after the unauthorized dealers who are selling the 2, 3, $400. Therefore, you couldn't have the people walking without insurance, without tags, without stickers, without anything. The legitimate dealers -- if I sold the car whenever, we take the customer to the notary. He produces a driver's license. We get a copy of the license. He must have insurance. We get a copy of insurance. And we sell the car. 75 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 They come into me, how much is the car? $500. That's fine, I'll buy it. Don't forget, we have tax, transfer -- oh, no, we don't pay that. They go up the street, and I see them buy the car, waves bye and waves at me and I say, How you doing? Now, if you want to stop the problem, Live Stop is wonderful. You'll probably get 1 percent if you're lucky off the road. Every day, they probably sell 200 cars in Philadelphia without insurance, without tags, without inspection, without anything, open titles. And no 14 revenue to the State of Pennsylvania and the City of Philadelphia.
Take care of these people, get them off the street. Now the buyer can't go to the man on the street. They go to (indiscernible) twice a week and buy 6 or 700 cars. I'm surrounded by them. And they go every week. They can make $50, $100. I pay insurance of 32,000 a year for my car license. I cannot compete, I have to collect the tags, and there's no challenge for them. 76 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 The honest businessman, again, gets the short end of the stick, and it's very upsetting.
I wanted to add something, that the police are aware of what Jordan is telling you. And they would like to have a Live Stop in that area so that as soon as somebody buys the car and they go to the next corner, they'll be stopped.
Excuse me, are we talking about 25th Police District?
So if you could 77 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 coordinate with that captain in that district and tell him that information, we'll do that.
Well, my information came from the 25th, but what I'm saying to you is that what Jordan is talking about can be stopped. That's the point.
Thank you. Councilman Clarke, do you have some questions?
Yes, yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to indicate to the gentlemen that you raise a very interesting issue. I recently had to take my daughter to buy a vehicle, and before she was allowed to take that vehicle away from that dealer, she was required to show proof of insurance. They tried -- my daughter attempted to call her insurance company and talk about it over the phone, but that person said, Until you actually show me the insurance policy, you are not taking this vehicle. So I agree with you. The question I have of you, these particular dealers, I'm assuming a lot of them do 'em out of their homes 78 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 or as brokers or things of that nature. Are they required to have any licensing whatsoever?
In the State of Pennsylvania, you must be a registered car dealer, you must be bonded by the State, you must have a salesman's license, which I do carry.
How many cars do you got to sell a year to have to have that, though? I mean, if I sell two cars to Darrell, is there a fee?
I would imagine -- I believe you can't title more than three cars a year in your name. Don't quote me on that.
But I would imagine, knowing how people are, Darrell's got a car, he wants to get rid of it, I take the car, I say, Darrell, don't sign that thing so it's still in your name. It's never in my name. I sell it to Council President Verna, and she puts it in her name. And if Darrell is willing to do that, that's probably how it works.
That eliminates 79 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 all of that. I'm sorry, Councilman.
Is that the notary? 'Cause in this particular instance, the notary was the person who required that the proof of insurance, the person actually did the workup 'cause it was a broker involved, and I'm --
And what you're saying, Councilman, it never goes to the notary.
Mm-hmm. So they don't even bother to notarize the -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
Also, I have I have two -- I own also two auto wrecking businesses where we stock approximately 1500 cars, and we buy naturally quite a few cars. And you'd be amazed how many cars that come in, there's seven names on the title. I say, Are you the owner of the car? Yes. Let me see your title. And they produce the title. I say, Let me see your driver's license. This is owner number 2, this is owner number 5.
So if the scenario I have, if Darrell's name on the thing and I take the Council President to an auto tag, if the notary or whoever's doing the switch says, Wait a second, you're not Darrell Clarke, you look like him, but you're not him, I mean, that could stop it right there, right?
I see them on the street changing cash. It's very upsetting and I --
So then we're back to the point where we have unregistered and unlicensed cars that are driving around.
Yeah. Let me give you another -- a true example that happened Friday. There was a Live Stop that happened in front of my place. Two police officers in a wagon stopped a car, and I knew they head him because I've been 81 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 around too many years. Sure enough, they waited an hour and a half for a Philadelphia police truck to arrive, and he took the car away. That patrol car was out of action for one hour and 30 minutes on a Live Stop, which is better than not having no 7 stop. But I think we can implement the program that way, plus going after the unregistered dealers. Most of the cars that they are stopping are one step above a junker -- 3, $400 cars. They don't go for the cars.
What are they using for tags if they're driving around the streets with --
They use anything you can possibly think of, from stolen tags -- what they usually do, they originally have had a tag.
And they just keep 82 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 using it.
They just keep using the same tag. If you check the stickers, they'll be 1997, 1998 and never renewed them, and they're not stopped.
Who regulates that? Is it PennDOT that regulates the sellers of vehicles? Is it a division of PennDOT?
And Transportation sets rules and regulations, but as far as enforcement, probably 99 percent are not enforced.
Is there a division who is supposed to enforce it, or we just don't have --
I'm sorry, the Philadelphia police. When they do their job they do, and you heard the results, 202,000 tickets were issued 83 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 that people didn't have licenses.
Well, let me ask you a scenario. There's a person in the neighborhood that sells these cars, has the cars lined up and he had a for-sale sticker in the car, has no noticeable business in terms of a building, in terms of signage. And I, "Joe Q. Citizen," I have a concern about this person selling these cars on block. Who do I call to get somebody to come out and enforce this?
I don't know. We've called the police many times, and they're still there. So I don't know who you would call. All I do know is, last week, I had three tickets for parking my own cars in front of my own door, $60, and the fellow around the corner got 9 tickets and he's not even a dealer.
I mean, I'm assuming that it may not be the Police Department's responsibility to investigate a potentially nonactive type of activity. I'm saying these vehicles are just sitting there, they have these for-sale signs, there's no noticeable business, but the people in the neighborhood knows 84 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 that the guy in this particular house is the one that's selling them.
And I'm just trying to get a sense of who would be responsible if I as a citizen called and said, There's a guy selling cars, I don't think he's licensed properly, or if he is licensed, he's not requiring the appropriate information or the appropriate insurance. Who is it that --
You would have to call the Philadelphia police. But if you want to remedy the situation, which I hope someday will be remedied, you have to take the police away from the situation. They're too valuable doing other things and have another --
I don't think the police should have to be burdened with that.
Go after the unauthorized dealers with a tow truck and tow their cars away immediately. Those cars will not go on the road, and you don't have to have the Live Stop as far as 85 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 they are concerned, and you'll eliminate probably 40, 50 percent of your problems.
One of the problems is that the police have come to the realization that the Live Stop is the way to eliminate all of these little things that we're talking about, because they do issue tickets. We do get L&I involved. And it still continues. The only thing way that we can do this is to have a Live Stop, have it planned, have the Parking Authority tow trucks handy. And when the car leaves the dealer, stop him right away. You're in a position of finding out that he's not registered and you can immediately tow the car away. All that you have to do that is do that a few times and everybody's out of business, but we have to have the cooperation of the Parking Authority in order to do this.
Thank you. Councilwoman Miller, do you have a question for these witnesses?
Yes. Thank you. Would you recommend that for the 86 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 unregistered, unlicensed dealers, car dealerships, that we would confiscate their cars? I'm sitting here trying to think of --
-- what would prevent. (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
I would if they're in business illegitimately, they're doing everything that's against the law, that question shouldn't even be asked of me. They should be put out of business. Why is it that the honest businessman -- now, for example, in North Philadelphia, there are probably 300 unauthorized dealers and probably 30 legitimate dealers. The 200 sell 10 times as many cars as we do. Why? You don't need as much money to buy a car from them. We have laws, they're wonderful. If we don't enforce the laws, why have cars? And that's the answer. If they're doing something wrong, I get ticketed and I pay the ticket. They don't get 87 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 664 ticketed, and they sell the cars.
Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, thank you. And that will take us out of the public hearing and into the public meeting. - - - 88 3/27/01 PUBLIC SAFETY - PUBLIC MEETING
I'd like to vote that we could vote out with a positive recommendation the findings of this hearing on this resolution.
Okay, all those in favor? All those against? The ayes have it. Thank you. (Adjourned 11:50 a.m.) 89 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, March 27, 2001, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY RES. NO. 000664 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter