COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, April 8, 2003 2:05 p.m. - - - BILL NOS. 030002, 030003, 030005, 030006, 030009, 030012, 030013; RESOLUTION NO. 030030. BILL NOS. 030004, 030008, and 030010. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN TASCO - - - V A R A L L O, INCORPORATED LITIGATION SUPPORT SERVICES 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X WITNESS JOAN DECKER, Records Commissioner .......... ROBERT DUBOW, Budget Director .............. MR. GODBOLT ................................ 9 JOHN DOMZALSKI, Health Commissioner ........ 18 JOE CRONAUER ............................... 53 MARK BENCIVENGO ............................ 61 GLEN REED .................................. 70 MR. HESS, OESS ............................. 78 VICTOR MCDAVIS ............................. 90 JOYCE WILKERSON, Chief of Staff ............ 100 RICHARD SHAEFFER, 0ESS ..................... 104 JAMES ROUNDTREE, MBEC ...................... 123 TOM NESTELL, Deputy Police Commissioner .... 129 MICHAEL RESNICK, Prisons ................... 135 ALAN APPEL, Prisons ........................ 146 CLARENA TOLSON, Streets Department ......... 148 3 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Good afternoon, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill 5 Nos. 030002, 030003, 030005, 030006, 030009, 030012, 030013, Resolution 030030, and Bill Nos. 030004, 030008, and 030010. I believe the first department to testify --
Good afternoon. Joan Decker, Records Commissioner. And with me today is Jeanne Reedy, Administrative Services Director.
Councilman Cohen, do you have any questions of the Records Commissioner?
I would like to know whether there have been meetings between representatives of the City, including yourself and Mr. Godbolt, and what the results are so that we can know where the public stands on this. Let me ask, were meetings that took place?
Mr. Godbolt yesterday 4 04/08/03 - WHOLE requested a meeting and we did respond to him --
That wasn't my question. I didn't think Mr. Godbolt had to request a meeting. A meeting was called for as a result of the testimony last week. I'm the one that requested that the meeting take place. And I expected you as the Commissioner to immediately follow through and call Mr. Godbolt for a meeting to carry through the request of this Committee.
You mean nothing happened until Mr. Godbolt called you?
I did not understand that you requested that we have a meeting with Mr. Godbolt.
I was the one that insisted that the City stop preventing the people from Philadelphia from getting information that they can get free from Mr. Godbolt. It would cost the City much in the way of dollars to provide that information. I could not understand why the City 5 04/08/03 - WHOLE was so insistent in denying the people of Philadelphia ready access to that information. I thought it was tremendous of Mr. Godbolt as a private citizen to offer to render this service to Philadelphians. And my memory is clear that I'm the one that suggested that there be a meeting. That's the reason that hearing was recessed until today, to give you an opportunity to work out the meeting. Is Mr. Dubow in the room? I would like to ask him to step forward too.
Because I would like to bring this to an end and know whether we have a Records Department that works in the interests of the citizens of Philadelphia or works in some other interest. And right now I'm very confused.
Both. Could we have Mr. Godbolt also? Because at the end of the last Session we had everybody at the table. 6 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Mr. Godbolt, please approach. Just pull that one chair over, if you will.
The purpose of my questioning is to find a way to make information available to the people of Philadelphia. I think it's the duty of the Department of Records to make the material available. If this doesn't work out, then at least I want to know from the Budget Director how much money it will cost, and to provide for that amount of money to be put in the Records Department, maybe taking it from money already in the budget for the Records Department, make available to the people of Philadelphia the services that Mr. Godbolt is offering for free to the citizens of Philadelphia. It seems to me that your waiting for Mr. Godbolt to call made the meeting the other day worthless. The meeting was not to urge Mr. Godbolt to call you. He complained a number of times that he had been trying to meet with you and that there was no response. The purpose was to direct you, if you wanted to have a budget for the Records Department, 7 04/08/03 - WHOLE to proceed to work out with Mr. Godbolt a way to make this information available to the people of Philadelphia at the minimum cost. It seems that Mr. Godbolt can make that material available to the public at a much less cost than the City of Philadelphia can and, therefore, I want us to take advantage of his offer. I'm astounded that you waited for Mr. Godbolt to call. You should have been in touch with him immediately to sit down and decide how can we work this thing out. Now, Mr. Dubow, did you have any question about what I was trying to do the other day?
What I'd like to do is walk you through what we want to do, because we agree with you --
Well, tell me what you want to do to make available to the people of Philadelphia at the minimum cost the same information that the City of Philadelphia makes available to bankers, to real estate, to preferred law firms. I don't know how these law firms are chosen for this information. And to make it 8 04/08/03 - WHOLE available in the same fashion. If Mr. Godbolt needs it and can use it in any way in which any of these three companies or -- not the three companies -- but the various companies can, that should be available with thanks from the City to him for performing a public service, instead of putting obstacles in his way.
Thanks, Councilman. Mr. Dubow, do you mind walking us through exactly what you're attempting to do, please.
Yes. There are two things that we wanted to do. One is that, as you know, there were 50 companies that had access to this information. We're going to give Mr. Godbolt that access too so that he can use that information and, as he said, that he can make that available to -- he already has that information, I understand, from the Records Commissioner. So he has that information. And so if he can, as he says, make that available to the public, that's one venue for the public to have the information. We also want the public to be able to 9 04/08/03 - WHOLE have the information through the City, so we're going to make changes to our system to ensure that that information is available both from the City and we've made it available to Mr. Godbolt.
So he's been informed that he's going to be given the same privileges that the banks and the --
He requested at our meeting last week, he requested access to philadocs and we provided access to the philadocs system to him.
Good afternoon, Councilmembers. I would say in a narrow sense it is true. But the bigger issue here, it seems to me, is making these records available to the public as soon as possible. What has been provided by the Records Department to me is retail data. What I need in order to make it available to all Philadelphians is the data on a wholesale basis. It is kind of like 10 04/08/03 - WHOLE asking Acme to shop for its apples at 7-Eleven. It just doesn't make sense.
You'll have to explain that, Mr. Godbolt. What do you mean by retail and what do you mean by wholesale in this context?
Okay. As I understand it, the Records Department offers the recorders extract in three different forms. It offers it as a Web page, which goes by the name of philadocs. It offers it on microfilm. The Commissioner has already talked about the cost of the reels. And then the third way, the way that I need the data, if I'm going to make it available to the public, is on CD, a big lump of data on the CD. Not having to look at individual Web pages for each and every property.
And is that the form in which the information is furnished to the other companies you've outlined? It seems to me three different methods. Are these three methods offered to the companies that do business with the City?
Yes. For the extracts and the microfilm, everyone pays for microfilm and 11 04/08/03 - WHOLE extracts. Everyone pays for that. It's a fee established by the City.
Well, we weren't talking about pay yet. I was talking about how the information -- is there a CD version?
Mr. Godbolt, at our meeting last week, requested access to philadocs and we've provided him with that information.
I want to answer your question, Councilman, if I can remember what it was. Could you repeat it, please?
Yes. The question I have is, is the CD information that you're requesting, is that made available by the City of Philadelphia to the other companies? Or are you requesting a different version? 12 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Well, I believe it is made available to other companies. I've asked the Commissioner about several companies that make data available, like Lexus Nexus and First American Realty, companies that would be likely to buy the data. And in each case she's denied to me in writing that these companies are purchasing the data. So I'm not sure. My sense is that in order for Lexus Nexus to offer deed information for Philadelphia, somebody has to be getting the data. They might not be getting it directly, but somebody is getting the data and then furnishing it to Lexus Nexus, which then makes it available to the public. Again, I think our primary goal here should be to make this information available to the public as soon as possible. I've looked at what the Records Department has done, their philadocs service, and it is excellent. I think it is a crime. I think it is a crying shame that this has not been made available to the public before now. It is really good. But given the limitations, the reasons why the City cannot move on this right now -- the Commissioner cited limited network capacity and licensing issues, the fact that her oracle 13 04/08/03 - WHOLE license only allowed 50 people at one time to use this service. I would humbly suggest that the way to go is by providing me with the data in the form that I need it so that I can make it available to the public, while the City works out the licensing issues and the network capacity and so on and so forth. I told this Council the last time and I will say it again, if you give me the data today or sell it to me at a reasonable price -- and by the way, I do not consider $400 to be a reasonable price, at least not without some explanation -- I will put it up tomorrow. If you give me the data today, I will have it up and available to the citizens of Philadelphia tomorrow.
Councilman, with all due respect, first of all, the information is available for a fee to everyone across the board and many other companies, individuals who request the data, do purchase the fee. It's a standing practice. It's a past practice. It's been in existence for a number of years that preceded my tenure as 14 04/08/03 - WHOLE Commissioner. It's a very acceptable practice.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. Excuse me, Commissioner.
Commissioner, I don't want to be tough on you. You're really a nice person, a good Commissioner. But you know, first of all, I have to support my colleague here. I'm a little bit confused. You're referring to meetings you had with Mr. Godbolt. You're referring to meetings that haven't been set up yet. When I left this room last week, I believe we requested certain information about the 50 companies, how frequently they use the service; in other words, a snap shot of exactly what exists today. Mr. Godbolt is not a major law firm that is utilizing that information for a profit. Why don't we just, again, stop all of this? Your tone has changed from last week, so I don't know who spoke with you, but we really need to get on with this. This is information that we need, that I need. There's times when I go to hallwatch to get 15 04/08/03 - WHOLE information that I can't get through our City system. So, can't we just stop this? There's a lot of people here that we want to get on. Can't we just agree today? If you're selling this information to other people that are making a profit, then maybe we need to have another category of the fees associated with this service. So I would appreciate and I think everybody in this room, Mr. Godbolt, the citizens of this City, because he's become known as the place to go to get information to make people's lives better. So can we just get on this and get this thing resolved today? Because, again, I'm not aware of the information that I requested at the last hearing was provided to the Chair yet. I haven't received it. I asked for information at that last hearing about how much use the system is getting, et cetera. And if you don't want to cooperate, just be up front and say you don't want to cooperate. You're being told not to cooperate. We're big boys and women here. So we can deal with that and maybe go in another direction, have to go beyond the Commissioner of the Records Department. But, please, can we get this resolved today? 16 04/08/03 - WHOLE
The fees is not my decision to make. And also these are questions that are currently in a lawsuit, which I explained last week.
But, Commissioner, if you want to read the transcript, last week there was some agreement made here.
I believe we agreed to give Mr. Godbolt access to the philadocs system, which we did. He requested access to the philadocs system. We agreed to that during last week's Council meeting and we did provide him with access to the system.
You left here last week, which I think I could describe as a suggestion -- at least I got the suggestion, the encouragement that you were going to cooperate to make all of this work. And what I'm hearing today is a different Records Commissioner than sat at that table the last time we were here. So what you're telling me is we need to fight over this. And if you want your counsel to fight to get this, we can do that. We're pretty good at that. So if we have to do what the Councilman suggested, tinker with your budget or do whatever is required, we'll do it. Thank you, Madam Chair. 17 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Madam Chair, I would like to suggest that we put all budget matters involving the Records Department on indefinite hold until this matter gets settled.
I'm just astounded by the representative of the City of Philadelphia to keep information hidden from the people of Philadelphia, instead of embracing the opportunity to get volunteer help from the citizens of the City.
We agree we should make the information available. We'll talk to Mr. Godbolt during the course of these hearings this afternoon and come back to the table before we all leave today.
That's fine. As a matter of fact, you can meet in the anteroom here and we'll continue on with our hearings. Thank you. The Health Department is next. Commissioner, it was requested that you 18 04/08/03 - WHOLE be called back. Councilman Cohen, I believe you had some questions of the Health Department.
Good afternoon, President. John Domzalski, Health Commissioner.
Thank you, Madam President. During a series of investigative hearings held by the City Council with respect to health insurance provided to the employees and elected officials to the City of Philadelphia, it was revealed that there is a situation which employees are covered during the time they're employees, retirees are covered during the time they're retirees, but that if an employee, while on active duty, were suddenly to pass away, for example, none of his family dependents who were covered by the insurance would be covered. Had the employee who was eligible for retirement, say, a long-term employee retired, his family would have been covered for five years following his death as a retirement benefit. But since the employee died on 19 04/08/03 - WHOLE active duty, there appeared to be a glitch. Since he was no longer an active employee, he wasn't covered. And since he had not become a retiree, he and his family have no rights.
Councilman, I don't think that's a question that should be directed to the Health Commissioner. I think that falls more into the category of Personnel and perhaps the Mayor's Office. I don't think that the Health Commissioner has absolutely anything to do with that. And I know what your concerns are because we've been talking about it for quite some time.
If the Health Commissioner concurs with the President, I will agree with her.
Okay. Then I have no 20 further questions of the Health Commissioner. I think he does a great job in general. I was hoping you'd be helpful to resolve this strange glitch that exists in the field of health coverage.
I think we would all agree that the Health Commissioner does a 20 04/08/03 - WHOLE fantastic job.
Thank you. Commissioner, could you give me an update on where we are, now that the Health Department is responsible for animal control? I expressed my concern about destroying so many animals. I'd like to know where we are to possibly develop a program that will make more animals available to the public rather than have to destroy them.
Absolutely, Councilman. And, in fact, you were very, very clear about your concern that we increase the adoptions, and I will tell you that we share that absolutely. Toward that end, what we've done is enhanced our ability to get animals before the public. I will tell you, Councilman, in the hearings that we had about a month ago, you pointed out -- and I don't know whether it was in the public 21 04/08/03 - WHOLE part of the testimony or afterwards -- about the utility of accessing the City's cable channel as one of the issues associated with that. What we did very shortly after that, we did put some information up there on the banner part of it about our animals for adoption. And I think you supplemented the suggestion, sir, at the time that we would want to include some pictures on that. And we took that and got some photographs of the animals that are available for adoption. The initial batch that we sent over there were not quite cable appropriate in terms of the quality of the photographs. We've remedied that, we believe. In fact, if today's proceedings aren't somehow interfering with the normal broadcast on City cable, we believe that those pictures that you suggested will be up there either this afternoon or tomorrow. It's that kind of thing that we really appreciate the suggestion on, and it really enhances our ability and redoubles our commitment to get that kind of thing accomplished. Our arrangement with Pet Smart, where we're able to get animals over to Pet Smart and show them, have them available for inspection by people 22 04/08/03 - WHOLE who participate and patronize that establishment, has resulted in an increase in our adoptions. In fact, overall since September, we've been able to post about a percent increase in the numbers of 6 animals that we've adopted over what was the case in 7 the previous arrangement with the SPCA. We expect to dramatically improve that performance, as well, sir.
Commissioner, if I can also suggest -- and I had a conversation with the Revenue Department to maybe develop a piggyback mailer in the water bill or other communications that are already being sent by the City, so we don't have to add any additional postage to this program, that we do whatever humanly possible. And I also suggested that we enhance that program by having an hour segment on the cable channel. I've talked to the captain of the police K-9 Unit and they would love to be able to participate and facilitate the showing of the dogs on the cable and cats and other animals that you have at your facility. So lessening that number and making some of these pets available for our constituents would be, I think, wonderful. So keep 23 04/08/03 - WHOLE me in mind to help with anything that we can do.
Absolutely. We certainly take you up on it. If you would want to facilitate that communication with the K-9 group or if you'd like us to follow-up, we'd be very pleased to do that.
Whoever you have that would like to expand what you've already accomplished -- because I envision that we could have on that cable channel a program that's regularly scheduled where we could get guest hosts to come in. I've already talked to a couple of the TV anchors that would love to spend an hour with the Health Department in showing the various animals and making them available for adoption. I mean, I think this is something you can make your dreams come true if you really focus on it. Because, again, we're killing too many nice animals. And I understand we have to destroy the animals that are in bad condition health-wise and come in from being struck by vehicles. The Police Department also said that they would teach people the responsibility of pet ownership. Not everybody should have a pet. Not 24 04/08/03 - WHOLE every person has the proper accommodations for a large pet. So I think it's whatever we want it to be. We can pretty much make this thing. And maybe we'll have a reputation of trying to lessen the number of those pets that we kill.
Thank you. Councilman Cohen, your light is on. Did you want to be recognized?
Well, my staff member reminded me that in addition to the inappropriate question I had directed to Commissioner, I had two more appropriate questions. One dealt with lead paint poisoning. I would like to know what would be the budgetary requirement for us to eliminate the problem of lead paint poisoning in the City of Philadelphia in the new fiscal year and Fiscal Year '04 that we're budgeting for now?
We're talking about a figure to keep up with the new cases that come in, 25 04/08/03 - WHOLE is 1 1/2 million dollars.
Why do new cases come in now? Lead paint is barred, isn't it?
It's a function of the age of the housing in cities like Philadelphia. Since 1978 it has been against the law to apply lead-based paint to the interior of any residential dwellings in the City of Philadelphia and elsewhere in the nation. So all the housing built prior to 1978 most likely contains a lead paint hazard. Now, lead paint in and of itself intact is not a hazard to children. However, as the dwellings age and as the maintenance issues continue to accumulate, that paint sometimes chips. Sometimes it becomes -- it doesn't adhere to the surface anymore. And other areas such as the double-hung windows where you put them up and down, the windows grind against the sash and create dust, and that is the culprit with children. And so as we see young children in housing that has deteriorated paint in it, that child is at risk for developing lead poisoning. When we get a child screened for lead -- we recommend that every child, particularly between 04/08/03 - WHOLE the ages of 0 and and right on up to age five be 3 screened for exposure to lead paint every year. When we get a child that we've identified through the screening process as being lead intoxicated and has a lead level, an elevated lead level, we'll go out there and inspect that property and find out what the source of that lead exposure is in the property, and then we will issue orders from the Health Department that that condition be abated. And when the property owner does that, we'll go out to re-inspect, look at it, do a test to see whether or not the condition has been abated and then clear the property if that has been accomplished.
So these are not necessarily old cases, but these may be new cases that come to the attention of the Health Department?
That's good. But tell me what happens if the Health Department seeks to enforce it against -- I had a call last week, I believe it was from a constituent, who said, "I'm an older women living on social security. I'm the only one who lives here now and I received a notice from 27 04/08/03 - WHOLE the Health Department that I've got to clear this condition. The cost will be several thousand dollars. I don't have it." How does that person bring about relief? Is is there any system by which a person can appeal?
I commend the system, but if it's done arbitrarily without connection with a child living there, it could create a great deal of hardship.
Yes. I would like to look at that, Councilman, that specific case, in terms of whether or not -- if there's no child in that property, that would be one thing. If it's a property where a child is a frequent visitor, that property may well be a source. Even though the child does not live there, it may be a source of contamination.
So, given that case, suppose in the event that it is a continuing hazard for the child and the homeowner says in this particular case, "I cannot do this. Can you help 28 04/08/03 - WHOLE me?" The City will perform the abatement. What we will do is bill the owner for this. The owner often times -- and in this case this would be -- and is most likely the case, the owner says, "I just can't pay this. I just cannot pay this." The City is not going to take action to reduce that to a judgment. We will look at the potential for liening the property. Also, what we've been experiencing as we've taken this to a new level this year, is that when a property owner in that circumstance says, "You know, I think I'd like to appeal this," often times they'll appeal it to, I think it's the Board of Revision of Taxes to which that appeal is made. Frequently what happens is -- and all of our appeals so far have been upheld -- is that there will be a schedule of payments worked out with the homeowner. So we do everything that we know how to do today to make this as least onerous as possible for the homeowner, while keeping focused on the need to abate that lead hazard in relation to its risk to children.
Well, it seems like 29 04/08/03 - WHOLE you've got a fairly reasonable approach. I'm not sure it can work in all cases, but that's why we have appeal boards to consider special circumstances if they are required. So I thank you for that. We will go over that case, too, to see if it fits one of the categories you spoke about and discuss it with the constituent and the --
-- the potential road maps that they can follow. Let me ask you another question with respect to mammograms. Are mammograms only -- I'm talking mobile, the Mom's cases, mobile groups. I think there's one group that goes around the City with mobile arrangements to take mammograms.
But I believe it only covers one or possibly two health districts out of ten in the City, or nine.
Well, actually you're right, Councilman. Health Center 9 is one of the -- we have two ways of doing mammograms. First of all, mammograms relate directly 30 04/08/03 - WHOLE to the tragedy of breast cancer, of breast cancer, not exclusively, but predominately in women. Fifteen years ago, a woman had a 1 in 11 chance of coming down with breast cancer. That is now 1 in 8. The situation is getting worse. What we need to do is get the ability for diagnostic testing out there and to make that an issue. The other tragedy of breast cancer is it is a very, very clear example of disparities, health disparities. You know, African American women come down with breast cancer at a much lower rate than white women. However, the death rate for African American women from breast cancer is almost double and triple. And that has to do with an access issue. An access issue and being able to get people out, aware, and into mammography. Two ways we do that. One is a mobile mammography unit. The other is where the mammography unit is not appropriate for one reason or another at a center, what we will do is facilitate access in that center to mammography services at one of our back-up hospitals. That's what we do at 9. So it's available.
Is the second method 31 04/08/03 - WHOLE you just described an effective method in minority communities where there may be very severe concerns about the kind of service they will get and whether they will really be welcomed?
Absolutely, Councilman. We facilitate that service. We just don't send a patient to one of our back-up hospitals. Either our social workers or nursing staff or, if need be, our medical director will be in touch with the hospital. When I say facilitate, mammography services for the general community are less available than they need to be, and often times there's a waiting list. So what we do, though, is make sure that our patients get in and get access to those centers without having to go through a waiting period in those hospitals. And we are very effective in ensuring that our patients get appropriate, consistent and respectful care at those facilities.
I'm sure you do everything possible to achieve that. But what I'm more concerned with is getting that knowledge accepted by the minority community, get them willing to go in for that kind of treatment. It seems to me that the mobile system is a very effective system, 32 04/08/03 - WHOLE more effective than any others. And if it's just a question of money that makes us choose some method other than the mobile mammogram method, I would like to ask you to consider that. And if you conclude that the mobile is most effective, I would like to know what the cost would be to cover all areas where you think the mobile mammogram examination facilities could be employed. Because it seems to me that covering one or two districts is not enough under the circumstances.
We cover almost all except the one. And that one is not so much a money problem as it is a physical plant problem. The mobile unit is mobile, but it's a substantial unit and it's getting it physically into that facility that has presented a couple of challenges that we've been working on to resolve over the past several weeks, and we think we might have a shot at this. There's some other aspects to it in terms of utilities. But in the meantime, I want to assure you that while we're doing that, no one is denied or inconvenienced in relation to that critically important service.
Could you keep me 33 04/08/03 - WHOLE informed of its progress?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Councilman Ortiz was in my ear. Did you say you didn't have a location to keep the mobile? You said it was a physical plant issue?
Yes. It's getting it physically into that health center that presents a physical plant challenge that we're trying to work through.
No, not so much storage. It's a mobile unit that we transport to different health centers and we have -- the ones we transport there, we've got to get it through the door, and that's the difficulty at that particular center. 34 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Other centers have a ramp that facilitates -- these are very heavy pieces of equipment -- that facilitates the access to the center.
Actually, no. There's two pieces. There is a truck that conveys the mammography unit, the X-ray machine. We unload it from that -- and that's a heavy unit and we need to get it into the building. What I've just been assured is that since we had this discussion in my office about 3 1/2 weeks ago, that, yes, we're building that ramp to get it into that facility.
Thank you. Thank you. That's good. It's a very important piece. 35 04/08/03 - WHOLE I want to go back to -- and I support that because the Mom Mobile -- not only for the service, the mammograms, but other health issues too, are very important in the Northwest. Because, you know, we just -- everybody believes that everybody in the Northwest is just so rich and they have all this medical coverage. But we have what you have; we have the working poor. People don't have health insurance. Women don't have health insurance, so they need access to those services. We appreciate all you try to do to make that happen. I wanted to go back to lead paint. I want to go back to the case that Councilman Cohen raised, which kind of triggered my thought around our whole effort to eliminate blight. When we began putting requirements on homeowners -- and Philadelphia is a City of an aging population. A lot of our homeowners, as a matter of fact the majority of them, are older. They're on fixed incomes. Probably the only thing they have is their home. How much does an average abatement cost a homeowner to abate the lead paint?
Now, you start 36 04/08/03 - WHOLE sending those notices out to senior citizens; they don't have the ability to pay that. They're not going to get the ability to pay that. The last thing I want to see you do is lien their property, because the City can't handle it. Plus, you suck out the equity of the homeowner. You suck out the equity of the family's ability to claim that property, and we continue to add and contribute to the blight of the houses in this City. I think what we need to do is find some money to help these families, based on the income requirements, to abate the lead. Because the housing stock -- I was talking about that this morning, and we'll be talking to you about this whole issue. The housing stock, anything that's built before 1978, which are the majority of the properties of this City, fall in the older neighborhoods, and children are there. Grandchildren, great grandchildren. And you tie in the whole issue of kinship care, grandparents taking care of children, you have that problem. And we want to abate the lead. We might want to look at maybe some of the NTI money, since it is designed to prevent blight, or stem blight. Somehow we need to 37 04/08/03 - WHOLE look at a pot of grant money to help, because you're going to pay for it anyway. The end result is what I'm concerned about. What happens to that house? Does it become a vacant house? The family's got a lien on it. They'll say, "Oh, I don't want it. Just leave it sit there." It still becomes a burden to the City. It still costs the City. So what we need to think about is how we provide some dollars to help with the abatement and, of course, try and get the family to pay. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to pay. Pay whatever little bit they can. A little bit is better than nothing. But to end up liening the property is going to really add to our blight.
You're right, Councilwoman. And that's a scenario that we work around very, very carefully to try to make sure that we do only what actually has to be done to make it lead safe in that house. And to try to work through with what we know at this point, the resources that we have around special circumstances, such as Councilman Cohen described. We want to take that kind of careful and hopefully enlightened approach as we deal with these very serious neighborhood 38 04/08/03 - WHOLE issues.
When you abate the property, how do you pay for it? What fund does it come from?
Right now the work I'm doing this year comes from the City's General Fund.
Have you looked at Community Development Block Grant dollars?
We're having that discussion. Where we are -- our funding for the coming year. You know, we've really turned lead paint on its head in Philadelphia in the last year. The word has gotten out on that. And people who weren't talking to us about grants and money in the past now are. And I will tell you that as of yesterday, we secured a full $550,000 in new funding for this, that when I was here March 4th, I didn't have -- I was confident I was going to get money, but I didn't have it then. I now have $550,000. I've got a handle on two more areas here where I believe we are going to secure all of the funding that we're going to need for this coming year. No 24 doubt about it. In addition to that, what's also 39 04/08/03 - WHOLE happened in this community -- and I think we really have to focus on what has come out of this Council in terms of the focus, such as you have and Councilman Cohen and Councilman Ortiz and Councilwoman Reynolds Brown have pointed out the importance of lead paint. And the advocacy community. It's unprecedented where we've had two areas in the private sector, namely hospitals, that have come forward and said, "You know, we want to buy into this. We see the importance of this. We know it's not going to solve the problem, but we want to take on the responsibility as a leader and say we are going to fund an abatement of at least one house in our service area." Two hospitals have come forward to do that. No small amount of that came from the energy of community advocates like PCCY that have really kept this effort in the forefront. And so because of all the things, the stuff that we've been able to do as a department and working -- you know, the other thing I'm quick to point out is, the Health Department has a long and distinguished history of not being able to do this alone. So recognizing that, we brought our partners 40 04/08/03 - WHOLE to the table on this. We brought certainly the Law Department where they created Lead Court, which has been a tremendous value to us. The Department of Human Services is at the table with us. L&I is at the table with us. OESS, Office of Emergency Shelter Services, is at the table with us. Plus PHA, OHCD, and PHDC are all at the table with us. We meet regularly to bring these things together. The people that committed to funding us for another $550,000 yesterday said, "We've never seen anything like this. We would like to tell the people in other communities across the state about the kind of a program you have in Philadelphia and the kind of coordinated approach that you have." I think that those kinds of things are things that make it possible for us to have a tremendous amount of optimism to go along with the determination that exists in this government, in this department, in this Council, in this community to commit to children and not have this permanently impair the cognitive ability of children.
We appreciate that. We're pleased to know that the departments do talk to each other. It has been beneficial to us in this 41 04/08/03 - WHOLE City and we appreciate your leadership on that. One other place I think we ought to look toward, since the federal government has regulations, we might look to our Congressional Delegation. Maybe they can help find us some money to do that too. We will help you with that. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I feel lousy today. In terms of the program that you began with the high schools, could you please tell me where that is at and how is it proceeding and how many high schools you have gone to at this point. And what is the process for students to get tested and so on?
What Councilman Ortiz is referring to is an unprecedented collaboration between the School District of Philadelphia and the Department of Public Health to deal with an epidemic in the City of Philadelphia of sexually transmissible diseases, particularly gonorrhea and 42 04/08/03 - WHOLE chlamydia, among our children, especially among the children to years of age. 4 We have gone in with, not only the 5 cooperation, but the encouragement of the School 6 District of Philadelphia to the high schools. And 7 we began January 7th. And as of this date we have 8 been in some 12 high schools and have tested 9 somewhere in the neighborhood of -- by the time 10 we're finished, by the end of the school year, we 11 will have accessed about 50,000 children with 12 educational sessions. So far we have tested about 13 4,500 children in the schools. That may be a little 14 more than that at this point. 15 What's so unique about this is people 16 that go in and do these sessions, educational 17 sessions in the schools, are kind of at the same 18 level of the student in terms of age, in terms of 19 where they are. After we do the session, we offer the students an opportunity to provide a urine sample to be tested. Once that test is done, and should the test turn out positive, we then provide an ability for the student to contact us for results. And then the student has an option: The student can receive treatment either at the school 43 04/08/03 - WHOLE or the student can receive treatment at his or her own healthcare provider or the student could come to one of the City health centers.
How is the process? The testing is not obligatory; is that true?
The student goes up to the person who is giving the lecture, I would imagine, and requests to be tested?
What we do is we have a kit. It looks very much like a brown paper bag. And in the kit is a urine specimen container and some educational material. Everybody who attends the session gets one. We ask everybody to turn the bag in at the end of the session. So nobody knows who gave a specimen and who didn't. It's completely anonymous. People don't single themselves out and say, "Yes, I'm the one that's going to be tested." So we have it done in a way where people feel comfortable.
Well, do you have a number on the bag, or what? How do you know which 44 04/08/03 - WHOLE student turned in a urine sample?
We speak with the student. We get a name and contact information to be able to follow-up.
How do you do that? How do you get the name of that student?
When it's turned in there's a discussion with each one and we have that contact information on each one.
What is fascinating about this is that in sessions like this, you end up with maybe 10, percent of people saying, "Yes, 15 I'll get tested." 16 What we're seeing in the schools, as 17 many as 60 percent of the kids that we give this 18 information to elect to be tested. And the 19 positivity rate underscores the need for this kind 20 of --
Well, it does. There's a figure that's been used. The Centers for Disease Control does something called the Behavioral Risk 45 04/08/03 - WHOLE Survey in which students and people are asked about their risk behaviors. And in Philadelphia some 67 percent of kids in school self-identify as being sexually active. So this is a very valuable program.
I believe that's the number, yes. It may be a little larger now.
Well, it varies by sex. In males it's percent. Overall, of all of the people we test, all of the students we test, the positivity rate is percent. That's 3 percent for males. 10.5 percent for women. Now, these are children walking around with an infection, an active infection, that they don't know about. No symptoms.
I believe we were in 12 of them at this point. We will be through all of them by the end of the year.
Yes. Well, we're going to be in all the high schools. I think there's something like 46 high schools that we'll be in.
Commissioner, I'm much concerned about the treatment process. Do you have a way of determining whether the student gets treatment or not?
Now, what do you do if I don't get care and I continue to walk around and possibly transmit this infection? Do you do anything about people that deny treatment?
At this point, the situation has changed in that now, not only do we think you may be at risk, but we now know you are infected. And what we will do -- and we do this in a very discreet way. But we will follow-up with you and contact you. We've asked for contact information. And we will work with you and encourage you to get into treatment. Sometimes the person just has forgotten, that, "Oh, yes, I can 47 04/08/03 - WHOLE come back to school and get treated." Or, "Yes, I had an appointment to come back and I just forgot about it," with everything else that's going on in their lives. Or they're saying, you know, I really don't want to come back to school and will have forgotten that, yes, you can go to your private physician or you can come to one of health centers. We make very special arrangements in our health centers.
Is a private physician required to report that to the Health Department when they treat a person with a disease?
Gonorrhea and chlamydia are reportable diseases in Philadelphia. What we will do is we will verify -- the student will tell us where they got treated. We will verify with the clinician that that treatment occurred. It's important, not only that the patient gets treated, but the patient gets treated with the right antibiotic.
Do you have the numbers of kids who have gotten infected by areas, 48 04/08/03 - WHOLE like Zip codes, for example?
Do you have addresses for all these kids who have been infected --
-- so that you can check out certain places, certain areas, and so on?
Councilman, if we had better visual aides, I could show you a map. I could show you a map and where we have concentrations, heaviest concentration in the City. There's virtually no area of the City that is not impacted by this, but there are areas of the City that are impacted higher than others. When we looked at a map of the City of Philadelphia, you come right down from the north to the south and you stop at City Hall and you make a right, if you're coming north to south, that's a lot of where we have a lot of our --
We can show that. We can show that with all of our epidemiologic data on this. We'll be happy, President, to send that you 49 04/08/03 - WHOLE to Council.
Of the total population -- how many high schools did you say you have gone to?
The whole number, I think we're talking about 50,000 students.
How many have gone through the process? Of 50,000 students, how many have taken advantage of the --
We've probably given the presentations between 8,000 and 10,000 students, of which we've actually tested somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 or 6,000.
So a whole lot of other students have not taken advantage of at least learning about this thing? 50 04/08/03 - WHOLE
I think the other way to look at it, is a huge number have. And those that haven't, they may go to their own private physician and say, "Look, I'm not going to get tested here. I have a source of care. I don't mind doing that. I'll go there. They've already said I could go to the health center and get tested." Maybe they'll do that. So we think that that's the minimum number.
Let me go into that. I was going into the HIV. How is the spread of HIV going in the City? Has it leveled off? Have we seen areas of the City where HIV is increasing? Are there other places where we have seen definable decreases in HIV contagions and so on?
Well, there are two pieces. First of all, with regard to HIV, we don't know because HIV is not reportable. We do know about AIDS.
We do know about AIDS. I really have a hard time talking about leveling off. We've had about 1200, 1100 to 1200 cases of AIDS last year. That would have been within about 40 cases of the year before. I don't see that number of cases being leveling off. I think it's a huge problem. Now, where it is, are there areas? Absolutely. And where it is in Philadelphia, right smack in the middle of the communities of color. Poor communities, communities of color, it's there. And what's interesting about Philadelphia is that apart from other cities, the exposure pathways are much different here.
In Philadelphia, the most frequent avenue of people being exposed is in injection drug use. The next is heterosexual sexual transmission and the third is men having sex with men. That's where our whole -- we're going through a whole process now of looking for ways to continue to build on the success we've had getting our money out into community-based organizations and in the 52 04/08/03 - WHOLE communities where we know transmission --
Could you give me details as to where the AIDS epidemic is impacting? You said communities of color. But in North Philadelphia? In South Philly? Where is it impacting?
I would again show you a map, and I'll be happy to get that for you. Not too different. Not that other communities aren't impacted, but where the major impact is, is in that band, in the middle of the City. That's really where our prevention and follow-up resources have to be focused and distributed.
In Center City, have we seen an increase within the gay and lesbian community at all? Because that was a community heavily impacted at one point.
I think that there are certain aspects of this where we have seen some increases. For example, we're dealing with an issue now of syphilis, and I've asked Joe Cronauer if he would come over. He's director of our AIDS Activities Coordinating Office, to talk with a little more specificity on this important subject. 53 04/08/03 - WHOLE
I'm Joe Cronauer, Director of the AIDS Activities Coordinating Office. In the community of men having sex with men, which is one of the primary modes of transmission for HIV, it is right now the third leading cause of HIV transmission in the City of Philadelphia. It's still a disproportionately impacted community because of the size. It's hard to get numbers. The size of the community is relatively small, given the amount of burden they have for the HIV epidemic. So there are very tailored programs that we have specific to outreach in HIV testing media and the rest for all three of the major communities; men having sex with men, IDU and heterosexual sexual transmission. In the issue of syphilis, we're seeing a rise in syphilis cases amongst men having sex with men. That is similar to other major cities like New York and San Francisco seeing the same thing. So now what we're doing is piggybacking STD prevention messages on all of our HIV prevention messages to remind people that HIV, although it's an important issue, it's not the only issue for that particular community. 54 04/08/03 - WHOLE
The numbers are pretty small. Nationally, there's a syphilis elimination program that the CDC is undergoing to try and eliminate syphilis transmission in the country. In Philadelphia, I think we've seen maybe cases so 9 far this year. About half of them are amongst men 10 who have sex with men, which is pretty significant. 11 The numbers are low. The percentage amongst men who 12 have sex with men is high. 13
I thought syphilis 14 was something out of the 1950s. 15
It's here again. The 16 numbers are still low, which is why now is the time 17 to deal with the problem. 18