And I know that you wanted her here, not for this issue, but for another issue. So if you could please conclude your questioning with Mr. Hess, we could then go on to the other issue of concern to you. 116 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Thank you. I'll be pleased to do that. Mr. Hess, I was very much impressed by Mr. McDavis and Mr. Reed because they humanized the issue for you. I think it often officialdom tends to get lost in the work that's to be done and loses human touch. So I was very grateful for the testimony given by both and I would urge that you continue your discussions with them until you've reached joint agreement. I think their contributions and those that they represent will be very helpful. I hope the conclusions that are reached satisfy everyone. Thank you. Now, may I go on with the other question to Ms. Wilkerson?
Just a moment, sir. I believe Councilwoman Blackwell has a very brief statement she wants to make.
Thank you. Certainly we understand that we have -- that these cuts could mean 130,000 meals for homeless people. And we are absolutely concerned about how they affect us because, frankly, 2,300 beds a night isn't enough. When it's very cold we need at least 2,600 117 04/08/03 - WHOLE a day. So 2,300 doesn't do it in the bad weather, and I say that to the Chair and to my colleague who asked how many people are being covered per day. And I know in the summer months we like to make lighter, about 2,200, which isn't enough, because the weather changes. You have some people who go in, but all of who work with homeless people know you still have homeless people in the summer, even though it's warmer. We still have more people than we do beds, even though we cut back in the summer, which I disagree with. But having said that, we absolutely look forward to the Chief of Staff scheduling this meeting so that we can meet and talk about the issues with the gentlemen present who have been involved with this issue and who have been talking about it for six months. It is of the utmost importance that we resolve these areas. And I believe, organizationally speaking, that a lot of the stuff we can do with a sit-down meeting if we're committed to making it happen. Thank you, Madam President.
Mr. Hess, thank you very much. 118 04/08/03 - WHOLE Councilman Cohen.
Ms. Wilkerson, beginning several years ago during hearings held by the Law and Government Committee on health insurance provided to City employees, but basically to Council staff and Council employees, we discovered, at least it appears we discovered, that there are certain people left uncovered. We learned, for example, that an employee of long standing, if that employee continues to work instead of retiring, if that employees dies while on the job, his family would be left or her family might be left without any coverage at all. Whereas had the employee taken the course of retirement and died at the same time on retirement, the proposed benefits for the retired employee would continue for the length of time that the City guarantees it for the long-term employee, a five year period. And even that, the employee might be permitted to pay the cost of insurance to maintain it. When the question was first raised innocently by myself, because the thought suddenly occurred to me, there was a sudden stop by the then Personnel Director. There was a pause. And then I 119 04/08/03 - WHOLE said, what's the problem? She said she had to discuss it. And the result of it was that we found that apparently in the health insurance field, and it applies to the City of Philadelphia, that if you're an employee, you're covered by employee benefits. If you're a retiree, you're covered by the way they look at retirees. But if you're sort of in between, an employee eligible for retirement, but not retired and you die, you don't get the benefits. Your spouse and your children don't get the benefits that they would get, had you retired. I don't know why that exists, but City Council got that answer from the Personnel people. For two years now, maybe three years we've been trying to rectify that and the Administration has done nothing about it. And it seems to me that Council is going have to deal in some fashion with that question, at least with respect to Council. Now, is there any activity that you know that's ongoing that may deal with it? We're told that it doesn't even involve a matter of cost. That the great likelihood is, that built into the present payments by the City, are payments that would cover this and that there might not be any cost. Or if 120 04/08/03 - WHOLE there's a cost involved in covering the situation that's uncovered, the cost would be very minimal. But the City Administration takes the position that it is the client of Independence Blue Cross and it has forbidden Independence Blue Cross to even discuss the issue with City Council or anyone else. So we're out in a vacuum. I think that budget time is the time when we've got to make some kind of arrangements to see that this situation doesn't continue. So I raise with you, is there anything ongoing now? Because, if not, I think the budget process is a process by which Council, at least with respect to Council and its employees, may want to deal with it. Because we don't see why employees, long-term employees, should be hurt by their continuing to work, instead of being given the equal rights of a retiree.
Councilman, I believe last year we, in fact, prepared and delivered to your office proposed legislation that would accomplish what it is that you're discussing now.
I don't believe it would have at all. 121 04/08/03 - WHOLE
I don't believe any legislation is needed. I believe all that is needed is a telephone call from the Mayor or from you to Independence Blue Cross and say, please deal with this question. Tell us what, if any, cost. We understand the cost would be nothing or very minimal. But tell us what it is, so we know what it is and then we can inform Council. But right now the question is shrouded in mystery. Independence Blue Cross insurance company has informed Council that the cost would be very, very minimal and, actually, in the opinion of Independent, it would be no cost.
As I recall last year it was something that we were advised needed legislation, and that's why it was prepared and delivered to your office. I will, before the week is up, pull that file back out and take a look at it. I think you're right. If it's limited to City Council, it is a fairly limited amount that it would cost. But I'll resurrect the record on that. Because I know that there were conservations that 122 04/08/03 - WHOLE legislation was drafted.
Can we have an answer in a short period of time? Because I don't see how we can complete work on the budget unless we take care of this issue.
Yes, I can do that quickly. Because I know we did take a look at it last year.
Right. And it seems to me the Administrative Board certainly doesn't need legislation to pick up a telephone and say to Independence Blue Cross, we want this group covered. We believe the cost has been paid, but if there's any additional cost, would you make a study and tell us what it would be. That's what we're asking for. I can't see any reason why any legislation is needed at all.
I will pull that record out and get back to you within the next day or two.
You are welcome. Next is MBEC. 123 04/08/03 - WHOLE We have MBEC. Mr. Roundtree is here. Mr. Roundtree, identify yourself for the record. Then we'll ask Mr. Cohen if he has a question for you.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Council people. My name is James Roundtree and I'm the Director of the Minority Business Enterprise Council.
Thank you. Councilman Cohen, did you have a question? Was this your request to have MBEC here?
Yes, it was. Since Mr. Roundtree testified, Council has enacted the Bill that's received a lot of public support throughout the City. And I understand that what may be needed in order to effectuate the purposes of the Act is some form of a disparity study. Are you at all familiar with that, Mr. Roundtree?
There was one made, I believe, about four or five years ago that might be outdated? 124 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Do we have any indication of what a current disparity study would show?
No, we don't have an indication. But what will be needed is to have the data that we have in the current study refreshed. It needs to be updated to the current status from year 1998 to 2003.
Do you know if the company which performed that study before, is it still in operation?
Yes, it is. We have them kind of on hold until we can identify specifically what it is we will need.
Well, I want to urge upon you and others involved in this, I think the matter ought to be dealt with in the budget. I think money ought to be provided for such a study. And I would very much appreciate, if between you and Mr. Macklin and Mr. Jones, you could prepare material that would give us an understanding of what the cost might be so that we could include it in the budget. I would hate to see things held up for a 125 04/08/03 - WHOLE year on the ground that there isn't sufficient funds in the '04 Budget. Because it's very important that this study be made quickly so that we're ready to implement the law right away. It's really awful that during a time of the City's largest construction boom in history in the largest Public Works projects, the two stadiums particularly, and other construction work, that the extent of minority and diverse employment suffered by to percent at a time when a 15 to 20 12 increase would have been too small an increase. We 13 were entitled to expect much more. So we want to 14 make sure you're all set to go. 15 So I wanted to put officially on the 16 record a request that the three men -- you could use 17 others that know of this situation -- but the three 18 people that testified before us, I think it's 19 important that you present to us, I would say within 20 the next week, your best recommendation with respect to what the cost of the up-to-date disparity study would be so we can take care of it in the budget.
Excuse me, Councilman. Who are the three members? I know Mr. Macklin, but what Mr. Jones? 126 04/08/03 - WHOLE
They were here. I believe they were all at one time testifying.
I'm unaware of any testimony by Mr. Macklin, but if you could provide it for me.
All right. The reason I asked for you to come is you're the Council representative and I wanted to make sure that it was in your hands.
I have been given the commitment by the Administration that once we get the information about the new law and all of these amendments, that we would press forward with getting some additional information.
How many commitments -- I won't ask that you answer -- but how many commitments have you been given by the Administration that later turned out to be empty promises? And on budget matters there's so many demands, situations and such, the fiscal situation may be so difficult and problematic, I would not 127 04/08/03 - WHOLE want to depend on promises.
Just for the record, I am James Roundtree. I am the Director of the Minority Business Enterprise Council. I report to the current Administration.
So my answer would be, they are as supportive as I would need them to be.
All right. But I'm suggesting to you that it would be wise for you to talk to whomever you have to talk to. And will you get back to us and tell us you're going to furnish a figure or not?
Councilman Nutter, you had a question for Mr. Roundtree? 128 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Yes. It's very quick. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Roundtree, I received the document that you sent over in response to some questions that were raised when you were here, I believe, for budget hearing time. I'd like to have an opportunity to possibly talk with you further. There were some components of the document that I could not completely figure out. And it may be a formatting issue or I just might need some additional information to understand all the elements of the report. So if I could have an opportunity to talk with you about that and better understand it, I'd appreciate it.
Would you like for someone from my office to call and set up an appointment with you, Councilman?
That probably would be the best. Again, the report had a lot of information in it. But I just want to make sure it's responding to the questions that we raised.
You don't want to 129 04/08/03 - WHOLE meet after 3:00.
You're welcome. Police Department. Thank you. Identify yourselves for the record again, if you would.
Yes. Good afternoon. Tom Nestell, Deputy Police Commissioner. And with me is Lieutenant Harry Giordano, the manager of our Records and Identification Division.
Thank you. Councilman Cohen, I believe you had a question for the Police?
Yes. I'm very concerned about the length of time it takes for a person who is arrested to appear before the Bail Commissioner. The average time seems to run between and 36 hours, sometimes a 22 bit shorter, sometimes a bit longer. And I'm 23 wondering if there's anything that can be done to 24 speed that process. I'm told that in other cities the time is much shorter. They basically go through 130 04/08/03 - WHOLE the same process. I would like to find out what specifically has to be done before the case of any arrest is ready to be dealt with by a Bail Commissioner to determine the situation of bail and when the next hearing, if any, should be held or whether it should be a discharge.
Councilman, in answer to your question, the average time for the prisoner to be processed from the time the prisoner is arrested to the time the person is either released or sent to the prison is hours. 13 In reference to the comment that many 14 other jurisdictions do it faster, all I can tell you 15 is we have jurisdictions from all over, including 16 Washington, D.C., who came in to look at ours and 17 were very impressed by the process that we have. 18 When you look at other jurisdictions, you have to be very careful in looking at the number of prisoners they process. Example, in D.C., we process two-and-a-half times more prisoners than they process every week. We also positively identify every prisoner that we have. There are other jurisdictions that do not do that. They will have different -- what here is a misdemeanor is a summary 131 04/08/03 - WHOLE offense in Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. processes that summary offense, but has no positive identification on who that individual was. We can tell you who was in our shop.
Well, could you, without us taking the rest of the day, could you give me some documentation in support of your view? I've never, ever had in my personal practice as a lawyer or in my work on behalf of constituents ever had anybody released in a short a time as hours. 12 I would welcome that. If you could show me some 13 documentation. The police stations tell everybody, 14 when they tell the families, they tell the families 15 that it's going to be 24 to 36 hours. And almost 16 always I find it, except as I said before, very 17 rarely it may be a little less or a little more 18 sometimes. And I can I understand those human variations. But it would seem to me that the question of processing more ought not to cause delay. We may need more personnel to handle it. How long does it take on this positive identification? Is there a special technique for that?
First of all, an 132 04/08/03 - WHOLE individual is arrested on the street. They are transported to the Investigative Division that conducts their investigation. After they are fingerprinted and photographed through electronic means and it's transmitted electronically to our records in Identification Division, there is also simultaneous notification to the DA and the courts for the ROR interviews done at that time. Then after that is completed and the positive identification has come back, we know either that that individual has been arrested before, who the individual is, or if the individual has never been through our system. Then the charges are forwarded to the District Attorney Charging Unit, who either approves or disapproves of the charges. Then after that is done, then they are arraigned over the closed circuit television. We have eight remote facilities so that we're not in a position where we have to constantly transport the individual. The individual stays at the one location and is arraigned right at that location over the CC TV. 133 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Would it be possible to break down what you said in the form of an outline indicating the length of time on average each process requires, and furnish that to the President of City Council who will distribute it to Councilmembers, and perhaps we can deal with that further? The reason I raise the question is, it just seems wrong for someone who may later turn out to be fully innocent, to have to spend a day or a day and a half incarcerated. I'm not too concerned about the person who's later held, but for a person who may have been either wrongly arrested because of insufficient evidence or because of a mistake or for whatever reason might take place, and is found to be free, it seems to me perhaps all of us working together could develop methods for speeding up the time so that people who are proved ultimately to be innocent don't have to spend a day in jail or a day and a half in jail. The more innocent they are, the less pleasant those circumstances are. So if you could, sir, work that out for the Police Department, I would be very appreciative of receiving a response through the President of 134 04/08/03 - WHOLE City Council. Do you think that might be done in the course of the next week?
And if you need help in any way, we would like to hear about it.
You may have a shortage of personnel or there may be something else.
We do not need help. Just so you know, Councilman, in the past few years there have been tremendous strides in the processing of the prisoners. There is a coordinating committee with Judge Presenza as the president of that committee that meets every Thursday morning. And Lieutenant Giordano can tell you a little bit about the activities of that committee. But in that committee are the courts, the Police Department, the District Attorney, the voluntary defender. So everyone is represented there. Through automation and coordination there had been tremendous strides.
Well, that sound very 135 04/08/03 - WHOLE promising. I did not know of its existence. Has there been any publication by them? I would like to receive any information about that. That would be helpful. Perhaps a short outline of what they do could be sent to me through the President of City Council with respect to the functioning of that committee.
You are welcome. And certainly I can attest to the fact that that time has been greatly reduced, given our constituency and how many people call us. Thank you very much. Prisons. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and then we will ask Councilman Cohen for his questions.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair. My name is Michael Resnick. I'm general counsel to the Philadelphia Prison System. With me is Deputy Commissioner Alan Appel and Ed Szymanski from our Fiscal Office. 136 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Thank you very much. Councilman Cohen, you had a question?
Yes. To the gentleman identifying himself as general counsel, are you a member of the City Solicitor's Office, or are you a private counsel hired by the prison system to serve as its general counsel?
I'm not private counsel, Councilman. I am a City employee. I served in the City Solicitor's Office for 11 years. Now, I am employed in the Philadelphia Prison System as the System's attorney.
Are you currently an employee of the City Solicitor's Office?
I am not currently an employee of the City Solicitor's Office. I am currently an employee of the Philadelphia Prison System.
My relation to the City Solicitor's Office is that for 11 years I was a City Solicitor, and I report on matters of a legal nature 137 04/08/03 - WHOLE to the City Solicitor and his designees. And, of course, he assigns people to assist me in my function, in my role.
I'm a little surprised that the -- because that's information about the City Solicitor's Office I did not know. I thought everybody was assigned to a City agency, as the prison system is, that every attorney worked for the City Solicitor's Office and may be assigned to a department, zoning boards, prisons conceivably, the Health Department, but that they were employees of City Solicitor's Office. You're saying you are not an employee of the City Solicitor's Office?
I was released from the City Solicitor's Office to go to the Philadelphia Prison System.
All right. Well, I've learned something new, and after the long service I have, it's always good to find out something new. I would like to raise questions because 138 04/08/03 - WHOLE the Law and Government Committee has been holding hearings on the question of prisoner experimentation that occurred in the beginning of the late '40s running through maybe the early '70s. I'm wondering if the Prison Department has any information that would enable us to determine who were prisoners in that period of time, what their conditions were. I'm not anticipating you are going to be able to give me information today. But I did want to speak with you to see whether things like what records exist, the names, what information may exist about their personal circumstances, their finances, their medical records and anything about the prisoner records, anything about the experimentation. Are there any records? I would like to know whether they exist. And I would request of the gentleman present a report to be given to the President of City Council informing us what exists in that area. That was the reason for my request.
Councilman, I can tell you this, that the prisons currently has a record retention policy of seven years. The experiments of which you speech were the subject of litigation. I was in the City Solicitor's Office when that 139 04/08/03 - WHOLE litigation was filed. And in anticipation of defending the City in that litigation, the Solicitor's Office made a request to the prisons for all documents in which you're speaking of, in anticipation of probably answering discovery requests or in assisting us in defending the City. The response from the prison system at the time was that there were no documents. We just don't have records from 30 to 50 years ago on inmates who were in the system.
I don't believe that the documents from the time period of 50 to 30 years, back from 1949, I believe, to 1974 when the experiments ended, I don't believe there are any documents in existence, not only from those experiments, but any documents in existence from the prison system on inmates who are housed in our system from that time period. If the Councilman likes, I could have something in writing delivered to the President of City Council to be disseminated amongst your colleagues.
There is a department 140 04/08/03 - WHOLE of City government known as the Archives, which I understand is a place to which frequently records are consigned by the City. Have you checked with them?
I personally have not. But I can find out what areas the prison system at the time when the litigation came and when the Solicitor's Office made the request, I can check from the prisons' Administration where they looked and what place they inquired to see where the records were, or if there were records. And I can put that in the report.
Well, it certainly would seem to me if there's a seven year policy it ought to be reconsidered in light of what has developed historically. We're told that the City of Philadelphia -- and I don't want to mention it too frequently because I'm very embarrassed -- the City of Philadelphia may not know who the prisoners were. And if you're getting sued by people or claims are being filed against you, you feel pretty badly if you're not even able to say for sure that this was or was not a person that was in the system at the 141 04/08/03 - WHOLE time. So it would seem to me to be a very shortsighted policy and I would like to know what the policy was and how it got formulated.
I can tell you, Councilman, I've been representing the prison system for years while I was in the City Solicitor's 8 Office and I never had a problem getting records to 9 prove that an individual -- when an individual filed 10 a claim, I never had a problem getting the records 11 from the prison system that said, yes, this person was an inmate. This is when they were incarcerated. Here is their legal file and their social services file. I'm talking about cases that have been filed in the last 11 years. You are discussing inmates that may have been in our custody 60 years ago. That may be more problematic. I don't believe those records are in existence.
Well, it might be 60, but it could be as few as 35 years.
It may be as few as 35, and 35 is less than 60, but 35 is also a considerable length of time, and I don't believe that we would have records regarding what inmates were in our custody during that period of time. But 142 04/08/03 - WHOLE again, Councilman, I can look into the matter and I can respond to you.
Well, I would suggest you study it because there are people who claimed that they were in jail, and I believe that in a lawsuit a judge might be compelled to find that they were in jail, if that were a factor. If the City says, we don't know, and they assert that have been, it leaves the City defenseless, it would seem to me. And so I think that that policy -- and if you are general counsel, based on that experience I think a recommendation from you as to a change of policy might be useful and important.
Two things, Councilman. The lawsuit to which you're referring, I believe, has been dismissed by the District Court.
It may be. But the lawsuit to which you're referring was dismissed by the District Court, and that dismissal was upheld by the Third Circuit.
But that has nothing to do with the morale or the ethics. It seems to me 143 04/08/03 - WHOLE that Philadelphia is in a totally indefensible position and looks very foolish before the public to have to say, we don't know whether these people were prisoners or not.
Secondly, Councilman, I believe that the Records Commissioner, Commissioner Decker, has been on the facility site and has been working with our Administration to develop or to refine and enhance our records retention policy.
Certainly. Commissioner Decker, the Records Commissioner, has been on site at our facility up at the Northeast and she's been meeting with members of our Administration, going through our records retention policy and helping us update our records retention policy or modify it where it needs to be modified.
What's that got to do with anything we're talking about?
Just to inform the Councilman that we're taking that situation and that issue seriously and we're working on our records retention policy, making sure that it's consistent, 144 04/08/03 - WHOLE it's applied consistently across the system.
Well, is part of that study the question of how long we should maintain records?
Well, then I would very much appreciate if you could send through the President of City Council a report on what Commissioner Decker is doing, its participation by prison officials, what its goal is, so we can evaluate it.
Yes, it might be helpful. I can't tell based on the information we have today. But I would also urge -- whether or not there are any people around who are known to be alive, who were there during that time -- because there are at least 250 people alive now who claim they were prisoners, who claim that they were severely impacted by participating in these experiments. And I'm very fearful that the City of Philadelphia is badly disadvantaged in dealing with it. It's not just a matter of law at all. When President Clinton in 1995 issued an 145 04/08/03 - WHOLE apology because of the behavior of Tuskegee Institute in a similar situation, it wasn't because he was legally compelled. It was because government morality and ethics required, in his judgment, that kind of policy. It may well be that the same is required in this instance. It may not be a matter at all of law. This Council has nothing to do with the lawsuits. We worry about lawsuits against the City, but if you're not in the Law Department, then I don't want to belabor you with questions about why do we spend about $50 million a year in paying judgments for damages caused by wrong policies or policies found to be wrong by a judge or a jury.
I wouldn't even want to take a stab at that question, Councilman.
You wouldn't want to answer that. No. Because it's a very heavy burden for the City to bear fiscally. Thank you. Could we get whatever you are able to furnish within the next week to the President?
I don't see a problem with that. But Councilman should know that the Prison Commissioner is away on vacation. He'll return Thursday. And I'm sure he would like to review 146 04/08/03 - WHOLE anything that comes out to City Council, so we may be delayed a couple of days in getting to you just because his return.
Councilman, paper records go back probably to maybe the '50s, I believe, and we have computerized records at the prisons.
I believe to the '50s. I'd have to check with our personnel department and make sure that they've been retained.
Could you check with them and give us a report on that included?
Would you tell them that for all practical purposes today's date marks the official request for that material? I just want them to know that they're not to dispose of it. I think as you try to recapture evidence 147 04/08/03 - WHOLE it's difficult to find -- we may want to get a list of everybody who worked in all parts of the prison system as far back as it goes to see whether or not certain evidence can be reconstructed. Because we understand there was fairly widespread knowledge of these experiments that took place, and there may be many living eyewitnesses that may be yet alive and available. Because a large number of people claim that they were prisoners at the time. Some of them seem to be in their late 50s, early 60s. And with the lifespan increasing, there may be a large number of people. So if you would make sure that there is no destruction of any records, if you could get us what seems to be available at this point just by date as to how far it goes, we'll be appreciative. And that may begin to get the information needed. It's not a matter of law, as far as City Council. We're interested in the policy questions and in making certain, according to a Resolution 21 passed by City Council, that no such activity ever occurs again. We're trying to find out how it occurred between the City, University of Pennsylvania, chemical companies and personnel staff. We don't know to what extent it involved 148 04/08/03 - WHOLE prison staff against University of Pennsylvania staff. If it did not involve prison staff, we'll be delighted to exonerate the City of Philadelphia entirely from that. We're also interested in any financial records involving payments. Did the prisons get any payments? There were allegations of payments having been made. Did they go to the City and not the prison? That kind of thing. All right, sir. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. Next is the Streets Department. Thank you, gentlemen.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner. Would you identify yourself for our record?
Good afternoon. My name is Clarena Tolson, Streets Department.
Thank you. Councilman Cohen, do you have questions for the Streets Commissioner? Please begin.
I'm asking about what's the condition of Ogontz Avenue repaving 149 04/08/03 - WHOLE project, which we understand is supposed to take place later this month or early next month?
Yes, sir, we are. The project is expected to begin in May. We've given notice to the residents and business people along that corridor that the bid was opened on March 18th for a cost of $6.4 million.
Could you speak directly into the microphone, Commissioner?
That has not been finalized as yet. We have some flexibility, but it has not been finalized. It will be based upon some of the constraints that the contractor may have.
It has not finalized as yet, which end. We're reviewing potential 150 04/08/03 - WHOLE constraints that the contractor may have in order to determine which end is the best end to begin on.
We won't object if he starts at both ends simultaneously.
But your telling them and local officials telling them may be two different things. They'll hold us to account. They cannot hold you to account in the same way they can hold us to account.
So you think it would 151 04/08/03 - WHOLE be safe for us?
Is it a company that meets our tests on diversity of workers? Are they the prime contractor, or are they going to do the whole thing themselves?
And are we policing their employment of personnel for the subcontractors? 152 04/08/03 - WHOLE
Well, I think it would be great if you could get into it even before they hire. Let them know that the City is very sensitive on this issue and we expect them to meet the City's goals.
It's better to do it in advance than to face criticism later. I think it's a good opportunity in these relatively smaller jobs to get a good record started. I understand like in providing employment, the number of small contractors jobs add up to more than the big ones ultimately in a City the size of Philadelphia. Well, thanks. You've given us a very hopeful report. We thank you for it. Thank you. I have no further questions. It looks like we're on board. Maybe it will be a quiet, peaceful summer full of congratulations for people on Ogontz Avenue.
Thank you very much, Councilman. Does anyone have any other questions? 153 04/08/03 - WHOLE (No response.)
Then we thank you all. This Committee will stand in recess until Monday, April 14th, at 2:00 p.m. Thank you. (Council adjourned at 4:40 p.m.) - - - 154 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of April 8, 2003, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public