COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, April 16, 2024 10:03 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT KENYATTA JOHNSON COUNCILMEMBER NINA AHMAD COUNCILMEMBER CINDY BASS COUNCILMEMBER MICHAEL DRISCOLL COUNCILMEMBER JIM HARRITY COUNCILMEMBER CURTIS JONES, JR. COUNCILMEMBER RUE LANDAU COUNCILMEMBER QUETCY LOZADA COUNCILMEMBER BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMEMBER NICOLAS O'ROURKE COUNCILMEMBER ANTHONY PHILLIPS COUNCILMEMBER MARK SQUILLA COUNCILMEMBER ISAIAH THOMAS COUNCILMEMBER JEFFERY YOUNG, JR. BILLS 240179, 240180, 240181, and 240182 RESOLUTION 240193 - - 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
This is the public hearing and public meeting of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bills No. 240179, 240180, 240181, 240182, and Resolution No. 10 240193. Ms. Loughead, will you please call the roll to take attendance.
Present. Thank you. A quorum of this Committee is present and this hearing is now called to order. Ms. Loughead, will you please read the title of the resolutions.
Bill No. 240179, an ordinance to adopt the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2025. Bill No. 240180, an ordinance 25 amending Chapter 19-1800 of The 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Philadelphia Code, entitled "School Tax Authorization," to provide for an increase in the tax that the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia is authorized to impose on real estate; and amending Chapter 8 19-1300, entitled "Real Estate Taxes," to establish an equivalent reduction in the tax rate for the City real estate tax; and making technical changes; all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 240181, an ordinance 14 to adopt a Fiscal Year 2025 Capital Budget. Bill No. 240182, an ordinance 17 to adopt a Capital Program for the six Fiscal Years 2025 through 2030 inclusive. Resolution No. 240193, providing for the approval by the Council of the City of Philadelphia of a Revised Five Year Financial Plan for the City of Philadelphia covering Fiscal Years 2025 through 2029, and incorporating revisions with respect to Fiscal Year 2024, which 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is to be submitted by the Mayor to the Pennsylvania Intergovernmental Cooperation Authority pursuant to an Intergovernmental Cooperation Agreement by and between the City and the Authority.
Today we will continue the public hearing of the Committee of the Whole to consider the bills read by the Clerk that constitute proposed operating and capital spending measures for Fiscal Year 2025, a Capital Program, and a forward-looking Capital Plan for Fiscal Year 2025 through Fiscal Year 2030. This morning we will hear testimony from the Managing Director's Office, including the Office of Public Safety. This afternoon we will continue the testimony of the Defender Association and the Law Department. The District Attorney's Office has been rescheduled to a future date due to the District Attorney being out of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. town, and I thought it would only be proper that he actually come and give his presentation as opposed to sending a staff member. Ms. Loughead, will you please call the first witness to testify from the Administration.
Adam Thiel, Managing Director. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning, Adam. How are you today? DIRECTOR THIEL: Good morning, Council President. Thanks for having us.
Absolutely. Just state your name and your title for the record and when you are ready, you can begin your testimony, sir. DIRECTOR THIEL: Good morning, President Johnson and members of City Council. I am Adam Thiel, Managing Director. Joining me today are several 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. members of our MDO team: Tara Mohr, First Deputy Managing Director; Mike Carroll, our Deputy Managing Director for Transportation and Infrastructure Systems; Vanessa Garrett-Harley, our Chief Managing Director for the Office of Children and Families; Aparna Palantino, our Deputy Managing Director for the Capital Program Office; Aubrey Powers, our Deputy Managing Director for Community Services; Dave Wilson, Deputy Managing Director for General Services; and Crystal Yates-Gale, our Deputy Managing Director for Health and Human Services. I am pleased to provide testimony on the Managing Director's Office's Fiscal Year 2025 Operating Budget. The Managing Director's Office works in coordination with individual operating departments to implement the Mayor's vision to make Philadelphia the safest, cleanest, and greenest big city in the nation, with economic opportunity 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. for everyone and to deliver efficient, effective, and responsive public services to every neighborhood in Philadelphia that our residents, businesses, and visitors can see, touch, and feel. With that, Council President, subject to your questions.
Thank you very much. Mr. Thiel, give me an idea of -- you know, for me I'm addressing the City of Philadelphia's gun violence. So let's talk about how much of your budget is geared specifically toward addressing gun violence here in the City of Philadelphia? DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, to help me answer that question, I'm going to ask our Chief Public Safety Director, Adam Geer, or other Adam, to join me. (Witness approached witness table.) DIRECTOR GEER: Good morning. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Good morning. DIRECTOR GEER: Good morning, Council President, members of Council. Council President, to answer your question, the total Operating Budget of the Office of Public Safety -- and we really do think that it is the total budget amount here -- is approximately $60 million in that area for our total budget. We are taking a holistic approach as an office. So if we're talking about Office of Reentry Partnerships, our work there related to gun violence. If we're talking about the good work of our GVI team, clearly related to gun violence. If we're talking about our JAC program, which is our juvenile intake facility, gun violence. That's just our Operating Budget. We reach into the Managing Director's Office and have contact with 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. some of their portfolio; for example, the Opioid Response Unit, Domestic Violence Unit. We believe that there are strong correlations and ties to gun violence there as well. So it's difficult to answer your question, because when we talk about Commerce, when we talk about Parks and Rec, all of those I believe have a role to play in reducing gun violence, but our specific budget is about 60 million. We are focused on gun violence as one of our top priorities, if not our top priority.
Let's do it this way, because I don't think every department you mentioned specifically has a strategic plan on gun violence, right? Because if I say let's bring up Parks and Rec, Aparna isn't going to say Rebuild specifically. I can give you a plan to target those who are most likely to kill or be killed per zip code, right? So that's like really doing a deeper dive more specifically around 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. how we're addressing gun violence. And so I guess on a more micro level, what would your response be? DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely. So --
And just to give you past history, the prior Administration, we pumped more than $100-plus million in violence prevention initiatives, but that was such a broad umbrella where everybody received some level of funding and then they came and said, well, we're addressing it because we're funding all these areas. However, we know if we're going to address gun violence in the City of Philadelphia, we have to be strategic and laser-like focused and targeted with resources in terms of how we're addressing the actual issue of going after, as I would like to say, those who are most likely to kill or be killed as well as supporting their families who are being impacted by the trauma of losing a loved one. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely. And understanding that and trying to be clear, and we can circle back and try to pull together exactly what we feel is related specifically to gun violence. Again, most obviously I think our Group Violence Intervention program, our GVI program, would be focused on those who would be most likely to be killed by gun violence or be perpetrators themselves. That total budget, Council President, is $2,340,000.
In terms of GVI, are we planning on expanding it as we move forward, and what's the status, current status, of GVI? DIRECTOR GEER: We are. So GVI has 19 positions. Again, our total budget is about a little under $2 and a half million. We are planning on expanding. We've seen the success of the GVI model. I was out there a couple of weekends ago where for those of you who 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. don't know, these individuals who we identify with the help of law enforcement, we go right to their doorstep. We try and engage them. We bring with us moral ambassadors. We bring credible messengers. We bring members of the Police Department. We bring our own team who offers social services immediately. We think that this has an impact on gun violence, because we're offering people what they need, right? We're meeting them where they're at, whether that be mental health treatment, whether that be employment opportunities. We can set up in very short order. That matters, and we are -- we received a federal grant with help from some of our federal partners. Mary Scanlon, in particular, brought home about $600,000. That money is going to be targeted specifically for GVI programming around youth, right, around our youth. So we're going to be bringing on with that money 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. five positions. These five positions will be dedicated to our GVI program, again, as it relates to youth. We already do, by the way, look at youth in our current GVI program. So if they get on law enforcement radar and become part of that, we look at them, but this will be monies specifically targeted. So we're going to expand it up and we're going to continue to expand GVI in general.
Thank you. How many police districts are we in right now in terms of GVI? DIRECTOR GEER: We are currently in 17 police districts.
17 police districts? DIRECTOR GEER: 17, correct.
I didn't hear you. Say it again. DIRECTOR GEER: I'm sorry. 17 police districts. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
How many are we looking to expand into in terms of utilizing GVI as a strategy? DIRECTOR GEER: I would have to get back to you. I mean, it is my goal to obviously be citywide with GVI. We do understand, though, with our resources and with the Commissioner's plan that -- by the way, our GVI program is aligning with our public safety plan. We are following that evidence and see that as per the report, the ten districts, right, that we're going to be focusing on, but we're going to be aligning our resources, including GVI, with that. So we will continue to make sure that we are there to address that 70, 80 percent of the violent crime that's occurring in those top ten districts, but it's our goal to absolutely be where we can, and hopefully that's everywhere. So I can specifically get you how we want to scale up.
All right. Just report back in terms of how 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we're going to go about scaling GVI. Another question, regarding community expansion grants. I know last year it was million appropriated, 6 about by 16 million was actually spent. 7 Again, it's flat this year again, another 8 24 million for community-based 9 organizations. 10 Is there any plans to look at 11 how we provide multi-year funding from an 12 expansion standpoint? I know the plan 13 right now is a combination of, as y'all 14 would say, PIE, prevention, intervention, 15 enforcement. Majority of the other 16 component is the enforcement, because 17 that's what we're supposed to do as 18 Police Commissioner. 19 I want to talk more about the 20 prevention and intervention side, right, 21 looking at how do we scale the support 22 that we're providing for 23 boots-on-the-ground organizations from a 24 funding standpoint, because we are remaining flat, and then also the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. back-office support that a lot of these organizations need in order for them to utilize the funding that we're giving them, but obviously I don't want to paint a broad brush because we have some successful organizations who are out there doing that work day in and day out. So have we looked at a multi-year funding standpoint to help stabilize these organizations? DIRECTOR GEER: Council President, I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great point. We are looking at all options to sustain and understand the organizations, and there's many, right, that are doing great work. And so we need to lean into those organizations, assist them in scaling up, finding out what their successes are. And then, frankly, if there are some organizations that we're finding aren't being as successful, can we help them along, and if not, then we might opt to use our money on some of these 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. organizations scaling up that we know are working. So I think right now the way it operates is, these organizations can reapply and we'll look at them. If we're seeing success, then they will get another round of grant money. I think we can be more intentional about that. I understand your point that there's something to be said for consistency for these organizations and them being able to build out like a two, three-year plan, right? If they're just going from cohort to cohort, that's difficult to think long term and include that into their strategic planning. So I understand that. We are, by the way, going to be hiring out a Director of Grants position. So to answer your question in terms of our level funding request, we're looking for an all star here obviously, a grant person who is going to be going out and looking for the money. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Separate from the grant, and we'll advocate as we move forward during this budget negotiation process, but we want to start with the money we already have, right, in terms of upcoming budget right now. So the grants are what we could get, right, but I'm advocating for expansion, additional funding beyond what's already appropriated. And I know part of the conversation will be, well, we did last year, only 16 was spent, 14 but, again, we're in a crisis. We got to 15 address this with a sense of urgency. 16 We're not going to arrest our 17 way out of this situation, so we want to 18 be very proactive in terms of supporting 19 as many, what I would call, grassroots, 20 boots-on-the-ground organizations as a 21 supplement, so what's going to be taking 22 place for a law enforcement standpoint. 23 And the other component is, 24 just to be more direct, and the last Administration did have, so I want to see 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. within this Administration under y'all first 100 days that we recruit an organization to come in to help with the back-office work that the boots-on-the-ground organizations need. Like we should already have an organization up and running to help these organizations, rather it's the system with paperwork, the systems with doing their taxes, but building their capacity. I just want to get an idea where we're at from that standpoint in terms of hitting the ground running, because we know what's coming around the corner when the summer comes. And so if we already know what the summer is going to bring, just being proactive as much as possible, I just want to get an idea of where we're at in terms of have we partnered or brought in an organization to work with these groups as of yet. DIRECTOR GEER: Council President, again, that is astute. We want to scale up responsibly. We need 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to, as we say, understand, right, and learn from any mistakes that the former grant round applications, however you want to look at it, we want to understand and learn from that. So we feel we're positioned now to scale up responsibly. We feel like we're going to be able to do so, though, with great effect, right? This cohort that's ending -- actually, we extended the cohort application for our next round of grantees until today, because there were six more organizations that wanted to get their applications in. Of course we want to take that in, right? Each of those grantees who we're going to give out in this next round of cohorts need to start by June 1. They need to have plans for June for the summer programming. Those grantees must also have a focus in their plans starting June for the youth, right? So we've already got that ready to go. We're going to have those in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. operation, like I say, June 1. The Office of Children and Family, who we partner very closely with, has all of their summer programming for the youth in particular, as I believe the Commissioner has testified to already, and she is present here if there's any further detail needed there. But we are going to -- we're prepared. We're preparing for the summer. We will have our grantees up there. We also, to your second point, in learning again from some of the challenges that we faced prior to the Office of Public Safety, we brought in Scattergood to provide some of these supports for our grantees, Scattergood Foundation.
That's all I was really asking, do we have an organization to come -- DIRECTOR GEER: Yes.
-4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. and give these organizations the support they need in terms of their back office. So we are working with someone? DIRECTOR GEER: Correct. And we can do more. We can do more and we will do more.
That's cool. And we got to be supportive, but, again, when we're on the ground and we're having these conversations, a lot of these groups are actually like doing the right things for the right reasons. This is the type of support that they need, and I think it supplements the work that we're doing on the enforcement side. In your budget, there's 5 million to clean criminal justice debt. Give me an idea of the current spend of those funds, how many people have been impacted by the clean criminal justice debt, 5 million that's being requested? DIRECTOR GEER: I'm sorry. Is that the crime scene cleanup program? 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Yes. DIRECTOR GEER: Thank you, Council President. So we are in the pilot period of that. We decided to pilot in the 24th, and we did that on purpose because we anticipated that that might be an area that particularly might need the service. For those who don't know, we will be the first major city, and I'm very proud to say that, we will be the first major city -- city, period, that I'm aware of -- to publicly fund cleaning up crime scenes in public areas when they've occurred so that our communities who are suffering from the trauma don't have to deal with at least that visceral trauma and then have their children and family members literally cleaning up these scenes. That's our responsibility as a city. We feel very strongly about that. That 5 million is spread out 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. over three years to accomplish this goal. To date in that pilot program, thankfully -- and I say thank God we have not had to use it in the 24th. That means that there was no violent crime scenes that would require this cleanup process. We did, though, have to use it at a recent shooting where two juveniles were shot near a community rec center. Fortunately they both survived. They were in a public space. They ran into the public space, that rec center, and but for -- so that crime scene cleanup program with public dollars cleaned up that crime scene, right? But for that, who knows who would have cleaned it up and had to face that trauma. These are professionals who are coming in. We give them trauma treatment, and they're doing, I think, great trauma-informed work.
Okay. Thank you. Office of Victims Advocate, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. just want to get an idea of current operation, where we're at in terms of reaching out to mothers and fathers who have lost loved ones to gun violence, how are we going to expand the level of support to address families who are dealing with trauma here in the City of Philadelphia, as well as an initiative where we're looking to expand upon those who are available to receive funding when there's a homicide that takes place. I know that Adara Combs, who heads that office, did some advocacy on the state level to try to open up the window to support and not penalize a family who needs funeral support, support to host a funeral, irregardless if their kid was involved in some level of gun violence. But we want to look at what's the future and what does it mean for the office in terms of support around supporting mothers and fathers who have lost loved ones to gun violence. DIRECTOR GEER: A tremendous 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. office under the tremendous leadership of Adara Combs. Currently there are four positions. Total budget is about a million dollars, Council President. They are doing incredible work with their team. They are going to state -- they're interacting with the state all the time to try and get the money that is -- frankly, there's a lot of money out there for victim services. They're doing a good job of bringing that in. They're doing a tremendous job of reaching out to our families on both sides of this, right? We know that often the individuals who are the victims of gun violence might be on the other side of that, right? And they don't care about that. What they're trying to do is deal with support and trauma-related support and financial support for co-victims and those victims. They've recently started an outreach, right? Every single person who 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is unfortunately the victim of a homicide, their families are contacted by the Office of Victim Advocate, and they do -- they attempt to get them to every service that they can, right? It's a list of services, and they will walk them through that. Their information is there. So we believe strongly in that work, and I think that there are plans to add to that office to help continue further their mission in terms of positions.
Ms. Combs, could you come to the front, please, join the table. (Witness approached witness table.)
Just briefly, Ms. Combs, just give us an update on, since your office has been started, some of your key milestones and advocacy standpoint, and then also the work you're doing around trauma in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. addressing families who have lost loved ones to gun violence. And then also I want to get an idea -- I know the Commissioner isn't here, but Adam as well as -- well, I got Adam and Adam. I didn't think about it that way. Adam, Public Safety Director Adam Geer, how are we also making sure we're co-coordinating with the new positions that's going to come under Commissioner Bethel, but also making sure the actual Victim Advocate for the City of Philadelphia, first of its kind in the nation, right, still takes the lead and there's a co-coordination in terms of how we provide the level of services and support as it relates to supporting those families? Because I believe hurt people hurt people, right? And one of the key ways that we're going to address gun violence is that when somebody gets murdered and their family members and their friends decide to go murder the person that did the murdering, that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. intervention but also addressing that trauma hopefully will alleviate two people from -- well, two groups of friends or two guys from two different neighborhoods trying to kill one another. But, Ms. Combs, give us an idea of your milestones, where you're at, and what the future of your office looks like.
Absolutely. First and foremost, good morning, Council President and to our other Philadelphia City Councilmembers. It's an honor to be here and speak on behalf of the Office of Victim Advocate in service to the City of Philadelphia. So to go to your original question, which is where we began, so as this esteemed body knows, it began with just me being appointed to this role. Since then, two years later, we have additional staff. We have a Deputy Director, we have an Administrative Coordinator, and we also have a 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Relocation Program Coordinator. The reason why I mentioned that position specifically last is because as this body also knows from previous hearings, there was funding allocated to relocate individuals who are experiencing imminent danger as a result of gun violence. There was a special hearing on that and a lot of different conversations regarding how we were utilizing that money and how it will be utilized effectively. I'm proud to say that since this office was created, despite the fact that those funds were allocated prior to the existence of this office, we have developed a program that has been utilized not only by citizens but also by victim service agencies, by the Police Department, by our GVI team, and a lot of other entities in the City. To date within this fiscal year, we have relocated 19 individuals to safety. Some of those relocations have 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. gone temporary and have been relocations while the harm was abated or the danger was abated, but eight of those relocations have been permanent relocation where individuals have been able to find permanent housing in safe locations. And while in the grand scheme of numbers does not sound like a high 11 number, I think it's important to 12 remember that is 19 individuals who were 13 previously being targeted who are now in 14 safe locations. And while we don't -- we 15 pride ourselves on this program, it's 16 certainly not a program we want to see 17 have high numbers, because that means 18 there's a high amount of people who are 19 needing to flee their homes to safety. So I'm proud to say we have that program. We have a Relocation Coordinator who is charged with ensuring that those families are handled with trauma-informed care, they're connected to services. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. In addition to providing housing support, we're also looking to expand that program to provide some additional supports that we know those individuals need. When I say that, I mean things like food insecurity, job security, credit repair. A lot of the issues we see are individuals who may have the means to relocate to safety, but don't have the actual background to indicate that they're otherwise eligible for that housing. And as we know, we are in a housing crisis here in Philadelphia, so trying to support those individuals to make sure that they have those things in place to maintain that housing, because moving someone to safety without some longevity is, quite honestly, futile. So that is one milestone that I'm proud to say that we have been able to accomplish with such a small team. In addition to that, we have been able to pilot our crime scene cleanup program, which is intended to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. remediate crime scenes that are on public property. The pilot district is actually the 25th District. And we are proud to say that to date in the last -- I think it's the 16th. Since it piloted on April 1st, we have not had any incidents on public property that required the cleanup, but we stand ready to provide those services, if needed.
Is this similar to the initiative, Adam, you just talked about?
Okay. Good. So it's 5 million that's appropriated that could be used in the future, correct, for this initiative?
So the plan right now, in partnership with the Police Department, we are working literally step 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. and tow with them to train the officers to develop the program to make sure every level of the Police Department and all of our community agencies are well versed on what we'll be doing. We started in the 25th District. We plan to expand within East Division, and after that move division by division until we're citywide. So that is the goal that we have. As Director Geer indicated, we did deploy the service one time, not in the 25th District where we're piloted, but to the West Mill Creek Recreational Center, and we were able to see that play out. And what I'd like to say to this body is while we can't predict how often this will be needed and obviously it's not something we desire to be needed, when I was there on the scene last Wednesday myself, myself and my Deputy Director went to that scene to make sure it was done correctly. There 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. were community members -- it was a bright sunny day. I think it was last Tuesday. And there were community members walking over and through the blood as if it was not there, and I think it's important to remember that these communities are becoming numb to what is happening to them. So it is on us to ensure that we're providing services to make sure that doesn't happen. People tracking that biohazard matter through the day into their homes is obviously a safety concern that as a city we certainly can't stand by. So those are certainly two programs that we are proud of. In addition to that, as Council President indicated, we have been doing a lot of work to make sure that we support the victim service agencies that are present in the City and make sure that they receive the funding that they need. There was recently a cut that was voted on through the Pennsylvania 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. State Commission on Crime and Delinquency to the victim service agencies, and what that translates to is that each and every victim service agency that is funded by the state will receive a cut come October 1st to their budget. That will happen. It's not a maybe. It's not a guess. It absolutely will happen. That will directly impact all of your constituents and all of our community members to the tune of five percent. And while, again, five percent is not a high number, that is a position, that is a program, that's supplies. That's a lot of different things that these agencies need to survive.
Let me put a pin in that just real quick. So, Adam, this is good while we have these hearings, right, so we could be supportive of one another. So what I would recommend, as members of Council, we submit our priority request to the Appropriations Chair in Harrisburg, as 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. well as the Mayor is going to submit her priority request to the Appropriations Chairman in Harrisburg. And also we're working together, the Mayor and I, and so we should be on the same page saying if we can stave off these cuts because we're asking for this type of resource and support as a part of our priority request, then maybe we'll have an opportunity, because they're still going through the negotiation process. So maybe we can stop this ahead of time working together. So this is very, very important information that I had no idea was actually happening. And we just had an intergovernmental meeting the other day with the Administration, members of Council, Congress, and both Appropriations Chair, but this wasn't brought up as a key issue that we all could be working on. So very, very valuable information.
And also just to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. add to that, my office has been convening all of the PCCD-funded entities within the City of Philadelphia, so those include organizations like all of the community-based organizations in all of your districts, EMIR Healing Center, Mothers in Charge, SeniorLAW Center, CARIE, the DA's Office CARES Unit, all of those entities that are going to be receiving that cut, to do some collective advocacy to make sure that we cannot only secure funds to kind of gap fill the funding that they will lose come October 1st, but also to make sure that we're increasing their capacity, because as we ask more of them, we have to give them more to do the work that they need to be doing within our communities. So we are seeking to not only actually support them but also fiscally support them as well in the work that they are doing. And to answer your next question in terms of the future of the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. office, in addition to the programs that we already have, as Director Geer indicated, starting, I want to say, in February, we began to send out letters to all of the family members of homicide victims. And although that is not a program per se, it is an initiative that I am proud to say we are doing. It's a small gesture, but it goes a very far way. Since that date, we have sent out 64 letters to those families, and we'll have another batch going out this Thursday, and what those letters basically say is that as a city, on behalf of myself, my office, as well as Mayor Parker, as well at the City of Philadelphia, we offer our condolences and support. In addition to that, we have a two-page resource guide that provides information to all of the agencies that are available to them, whether it be community-based agencies, the Police Department, the Medical 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Examiner's Office, the Police Department Victim Services Unit -- or Victim Assistance Office, I'm sorry, the CARES Unit, everybody you can think of, DBHIDS, that folks may need that they don't have the information for, that's contained in that letter. And while, yes, we know, individuals receive a lot of information after someone has passed away, in my viewpoint as well as Director Geer as well as Mayor Parker, this offer of our condolences and support to us is a showing to the community that we do care and that their loved one is not just a number but rather a person we will miss in our community. So that's an initiative that we have.
Go ahead and drop that mic. I want to acknowledge two key parts of what you're working on, which shows progress that this body has been doing. Councilman Curtis Jones held 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. hearings regarding witness relocation, and some people don't know that the relocation that you're doing is separate from what the District Attorney's Office was doing. There was a need. You also talked about helping people get permanent housing, also something that Chairman of Public Safety worked on as well. And the cleaning up of crime sites, had a hearing -- I didn't even know that was a thing at the time, right? I guess just growing up in the neighborhood, it's not -- just being quite frank, seen plenty of people, just being honest with you, since 12 years old being murdered in the streets of South Philadelphia. So I didn't even think it was a thing about -- ain't never come to the point of South Philly and say, we're going to clean up this site. It's just it is what it is and life goes on. So I think those key initiatives that you're working on I think is great. I think reaching out to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the actual families, that goes like a long way from the healing standpoint, because we still have people coming down to Council advocating every now and then saying we're trying to deal with a cold case or how we get follow-up and work in partnership with detectives in terms of getting some closure after losing a loved one. So thank you for that update. And I'm going to relax my time to the members. I just had one small question regarding -- and this is for Mr. Adam Geer. Thank you, Adara Combs.
And my last question before I relax my time is, are we -- well, I recommend that we explore two things. One, in this budget is there expansion for funding for the safe passage program with the School District of Philadelphia, making sure children are safe going to and from school? Are we expanding -- in this 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. budget is there funding for that? DIRECTOR GEER: I would have to check specifically. That's a program that's with the School District. It's a contract with the School District and the Police Department. So we would have to look, and I'm not sure if we can quickly figure out whether there was an expansion for the monies for that. We have with Town Watch Integrated Services within the Office of Public Safety a program that's similar where we identify corridors for school-age children who are walking to and from school. That funding is level.
That funding is level? DIRECTOR GEER: That funding is level for that program, but that's the program personally -- well, professionally as the Director of Office of Public Safety, I think what we are trying to capture and focus on is the older individuals who are in and around 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. schools who may be subject to this type of gun violence. The safe pathways that the Town Watch Integrated Services runs in my shop, it's for younger.
Younger ones? DIRECTOR GEER: Correct. So I think we would want to look into the numbers as it relates to the other program with the Police Department and School District.
And then last, have we looked at how we can reset Town Watch Integrated Services? At one time Town Watch was very, very heavily inside the community under the Managing Director's Office. It was different than the traditional come outside with walkie-talkies, but more from an intervention and prevention standpoint, you had a significant amount of workers in different neighborhoods throughout the City of Philadelphia doing this work around public safety. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Could we consider re-looking at that model from a prevention and intervention standpoint? And the same thing with Philadelphia Anti-Drug/Anti-Violence Network. Most of the social media beefs end up inside the schools and spill out into the streets. And rather it's the School District contracting with Philadelphia Anti-Drug/Anti-Violence Network or other organizations that are boots on the ground, we have to have more of a presence inside the schools to try to help resolve the conflicts with our young people before they get out in the streets. And so I know some of it is the responsibility of the School District, but we lead as well from a city standpoint in terms of convening, getting everybody at the table from a resource standpoint, seeing how we can fill in the gaps, because if we're not inside those schools, I think we'll continuously see 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the same issue go on and on when it comes to our young people. Just something to consider and think about. DIRECTOR GEER: Agreed, Council President. Yes is the short answer to both those. We're going to look at both those, but, yes. The short answer is yes.
Thank you. I'll relax my time. Councilman Curtis Jones.
Thank you, Mr. President. Two quick questions. Are you on CJAB and is the Victims Advocate also on CJAB? DIRECTOR GEER: I'm not sure if the Victims Advocate is. We are on CJAB. The Mayor needs to -- will officially appoint me to CJAB, but I'm in contact with Judge DeFino-Nastasi. We were invited to the last CJAB meetings. We have those memberships. It's just me officially being appointed, but, yes. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Because as we anoint you as the straw that stirs the drink, that is where the drink is. You have all of those different department heads, and when somebody does something, an initiative, if in Kensington we do a massive enforcement piece, that affects the prisons, that affects the health system, that affects the courts. So that all of those things are anticipated in a way that they can adjust for. So I wanted to make sure of that. A couple of things. One, have you begun measuring the boots-on-the-ground grants and their effectiveness? We are pleased that crime has gone down. I think it's 30 percent or better. But who, what, how that happens we need to kind of get more information on so that we can reinforce those programs that are working and then maybe adjust the ones that are not. So those kinds of data bringing back to this 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. body is essential. If we're putting up that much money, we want to know what is working and what needs adjustment. So if you could do that, that would be helpful. DIRECTOR GEER: Yes, absolutely. We have had independent evaluations of our grant program. Either they have been completed or are in the process of being completed. We hired -- rather, the previous Administration in response to some of these challenges hired two grant analysts to specifically look at this. I personally have brought on our Chief Operating Officer, Marcia Dixon, who is absolutely incredible and has not only a strong financial background and eye, but also comes from a public safety background as well. She is looking at this. We're bringing in a Director of Performance Management -- that will be a new hire -- to look at this. So we absolutely -- it is a priority of my 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. office to make sure that we are understanding what is working, what is not working, and being fair and also supporting these organizations how we have to support them so that they can be in the best position to succeed. And we will bring back that information to Council as we receive it.
And thank you both for elevating crime prevention and gun violence to a prominent level, and you have been working on the Blueprint for a Safer Philadelphia, and thank you for that. You all have the questions. You're responding in a tremendous way. A lot of those things are being implemented as we speak. But one of the ones that I really want to get insight on is, we have a school-to-prison pipeline. How do we reinforce and create a school-to-paycheck pipeline? Example, the Fleet Management, I think a third of their workforce actually comes from public schools, CTE 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. schools, Randolph School, and are filling the ranks. We have a problem with filling all of these positions. So if you can't find outside workers, let's grow them from particularly an at-risk population that otherwise might find their way into problematic careers. So I know Fleet Management does it. Can you talk about school-to-paycheck pipelines that we are creating? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, this is certainly a topic that is near and dear to my heart in my former role and now looking across the entire breadth of City government. I know in my prior role, with help from Mayor Parker in her prior role, we doubled the size of our Explorers Program by giving them a dedicated facility, and we've really seen the fruits of that already in Fire. And the Fire Department also has a program at the Randolph School, another program that frankly at various times has been challenged to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. recruit students. That program is going great now, that partnership with the School District. And the Police Department of course has a huge Explorers Program as well. We have the program in Fleet. We have Future Track in Streets and Sanitation. We have a lot of different programs across City government, and I think we need more. Certainly the Municipal University, a great vision of Mayor Parker's that we're really excited to get going on with the Community College. And actually I just read an article about the current generation, and I have a few of those folks at home -- well, not really at home -- very interested in the trades and very interested in -- maybe less interested in going to college, and that really resonates even with my experience. I didn't know what I wanted to do and I just sort of stumbled into what turned out to be a career for me. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. There's a huge opportunity here, so I think as we're building the Municipal University, we're continuing to leverage and double down on these programs. Another one that's been huge for us as we've been talking with a lot of healthcare providers, healthcare systems is, here as the City of eds and meds, there are a lot of healthcare opportunities that are available. Another thing we experimented with in my last job, we had a community EMT program with 1199C. We had an community EMT program with Drexel's Dornsife School of Public Health. We had a community EMT program with WPSI, with the West Philadelphia Skills Initiative. So I really think the sky is the limit. I think certainly the time is now. It seems like there's an appetite for that. We do have unfilled positions across all of City government, and I believe that working together and in a 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. collaborative way, an intergovernmental way, which is what Mayor Parker is demonstrating, we can get this done. There was just a number of opportunities released in the past couple days from the federal Department of Labor for apprenticeship programs. We know that working with the building trades, there's already something we're doing. So I'm hopeful that this additional federal investment, plus all of the work that we're doing, will continue. We need it. We need it now. We need folks to fill these roles not just for today, in talking with the healthcare folks, this is a four, five, ten-year pipeline.
So we really do need to be filling that pipeline today for jobs that we may not have been thinking about are in scope.
One of the things that I would encourage, that really there's a finite amount of young people that are, as they say, off the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. chain, might be around 5,000 folk out of the population. I want to encourage us to create year-round jobs for that population. Everybody is not going to take advantage of that opportunity, but if 50 percent of them did, what would it do to our crime rate. And as a part of GVI, that that is something we offer them. I've gone on those walk-arounds, and after the participant gets beyond disbelief that they're not going to jail that day, you know, they start to open up to the possibilities of some of the positive things that might be offered. So if you said to me, you can get off this corner, I'm going to give you an opportunity to have a year-round job so that you don't have the reason to do what you do, that might be an incentive for folk to do the right thing. So if we could see -- I know there's a year-round possibility. Does anybody know how many jobs that is and if 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we can't expand that? DIRECTOR THIEL: Well, we know that the Office of Children and Families during the summer programs this year, a number of those summer jobs are going to lead to full-time jobs, and we can get back to you with exactly that number. I know our Chief Deputy Managing Director has that. Parks and Rec I think has other jobs that that's a pipeline. Future Track is intended to be a pipeline. As we expand Clean and Green, this is another opportunity that we have for the Philly TCB folks, CLIP folks, for them to ultimately turn what are entry-level jobs into career jobs, and part of this, I think --
Can I get a point of information, if you don't mind, Member Jones.
We cut CLIP by a million dollars. So can 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. you give us an idea why? Because that is an easy entrance way into the Streets Department, and we normally recommend folks there irregardless of their record, but I know the whole mission is clean and green. And so members have been asking that for a while, especially Councilmember Mike Driscoll. Can you give us an idea of how is that -- how cutting it gets us to where we need to go? DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, since that is in the Clean and Green Initiative, we'll have to get back to you on that from our Director of Clean and Green Initiatives, Carlton Williams. I don't see him here today, but we can certainly get back with you on that. Obviously there is a huge investment in Clean and Green, and some of what you're seeing as cuts or what you're seeing -- what look like cuts are actually transfers or reinvestments in other areas. So I think -- I don't 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. think. I know that for Clean and Green, the net-net on our clean and green initiatives is definitely plus, plus dollars, plus equipment, plus people. We're going to be coordinating these folks. So my sense is that probably looks like a cut because of some of this movement. We are absolutely going to be investing not just in the equipment and the vehicles for Clean and Green, the people with an eye towards ensuring that those -- a lot of those folks that we're going to be hiring, whether they are -- part of this is putting everybody under the same umbrella. So regardless of how they're hired, we want them to get into these City jobs that have not just pay, benefits. I think this is another part of the conversation that we're missing. When you look at the total package, it's not just about cash money. It's about a pension and it's about health insurance, and I think we need to have that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. conversation more holistically with young people, because if it's just about cash, that can be difficult to compete. The City offers so much more. And as we're having Municipal University -- we already offer -- I tell folks all the time, sure, college is great, and if you come work for us now, then we'll send you to college. I mean, we have a lot of different programs across the City to help send people to college. So I think that to me, reframing this conversation, Council President. We'll get back to you with the specifics on your question. I can confidently say the net-net for all of our clean and green initiatives is going to be more people to do more work in a collaborative and coordinated fashion, with an eye towards long-term City employment.
Thank you. Member Jones, do you want to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. wrap it up?
No. I'm good. In the next round, what I'd like to do is focus on one of Member Phillips' priorities, which we're working with DHS on, Parent University, because at the beginning of the problem, precursor to the issue, is parents' ability to raise our kids and parent accountability, something that we need to take a deeper dive on, giving them resources, but also if your kid was out at 1 o'clock in the morning, why? So whoever from your team can respond to that, I'd be grateful to hear. Thank you, Mr. President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Phillips.
Member Phillips, one second. I just want 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to acknowledge present is Councilmember Cindy Bass, Councilmember Young, Councilmember Harrity as well present for the record.
Thank you, Council President Johnson. Many neighbors in the Ninth District hesitate to utilize 3-1-1 because of its lack of transparency. They submit a complaint and there's no 12 follow-up or clear action. Many times the ticket is closed with no resolution. This actually happened to me. Chicago's 3-1-1 faces challenges with transparency regarding resolved claims, prompting the implementation of a system where photos are uploaded to verify completed work. What measures is the Managing Director's Office taking to enhance the infrastructure of 3-1-1? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I'm so glad you asked. We absolutely agree that 3-1-1 -- the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. folks who work in 3-1-1 are really dedicated and they work hard to be able to do what is within their scope. The obvious challenge, or I see it as an opportunity with 3-1-1, is to make sure that that intake is connected to the work. That is the part that is missing, and we are building that. In this budget that is recognized. We're going to be building sort of an action component to 3-1-1 so we can make sure that when we get those tickets, that we are immediately or very shortly -- and, again, 24/7/365, not just seven and a half hours a day or not just if it happens on Friday, wait until Monday to fix it. We are building that capability, because we need round-the-clock coordination and collaboration, not just among City departments but among all of our other partners. And I think this is one of the challenges with 3-1-1. And, again, I really -- I want 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to be really clear. I appreciate their work, just as I appreciate our 9-1-1 dispatchers. It's National Public Safety Telecommunicators Week. All those folks kind of fall in that bucket. To me and having sat with them, it's not a job I could do, to be able to -- essentially you're getting all of this incoming information and you're not able to see closure, so you can imagine how tough that is. So these are tough jobs. The transparency, we are going to be building exactly that. We are going to be essentially making sure that we're putting these feeds out, making them public, not just showing the tickets but showing the actions, exactly what you're suggesting, with photos, with information. It's happened to me as well that you call something in. We just saw an example the other day, somebody's ticket is closed and the discarded couch 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. was still there. So we need to build that. We need to give the folks in 3-1-1 frankly some love and some attention and better tools, not just technology tools, professional development, the training, to get them to the point where when we close a ticket, we're not just closing the ticket, we know the work is done and we're putting that out there for everybody to see.
Thank you. Thank you, Managing Director. And also one of the things just to add into transparency is how do we make sure that -- maybe you could make it more transparent where by district, here are all the district complaints so that we as Councilmembers and our team, we can figure out, you know, what was opened and what's closed as well immediately. So that could be helpful. DIRECTOR THIEL: Yeah. Councilmember, we're actually going to be 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. kind of organizing as we're -- organizing by geography for this coordination. We're going to be doing that by councilmanic district, so we make sure that as people are visualizing, they can see that, that you all will have direct access to this information, and we really think that's actually -- making it transparent is going to help the folks who are working there so they can actually see the fruits of their labors.
Thanks. This is around OTIS's work. So as we know there's a high demand for speed cushions in most District Council offices, and I know Vision Zero is looking at the dozens or so of roads that make up the highest number of vehicle deaths and accidents, but what relief are we going to be giving our residents in terms of helping them understand what can be done to slow down traffic? Because I want to hear from you all have you 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. thought about other measures that could be in place? Because right now there's this deep belief among residents that their block, everyone's block deserves a speed-calming measure, specifically a speed hump, right, speed bumps. So that may not be practical, right? So what are we going to be doing to make sure residents feel like there's traffic additions that are being slowed down across the City? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, as you know, Vision Zero is a high priority for Mayor Parker. Her fourth executive order was to essentially move Vision Zero forward. I can tell you, because we were at their conference together, it's a high priority for me as well, and it's really been an honor. We have an incredibly dedicated group of folk within our Office of Multi-Modal Planning who are working on Vision Zero and thinking about those issues literally around the clock and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. continuing to address the education component. You're exactly right. If you speed between the traffic-calming installations, that just doesn't work. So we really need folks to embrace their role in this and slow down. I mean, we see that everywhere around the City. Rest assured, the Vision Zero folks are working constantly to find the most efficient and effective way to deploy the resources we have in communities for speed cushions, for other traffic-calming measures, for bike lanes, which are also -- bike lanes, in addition to providing that bike network that is so important, bike lanes also provide traffic calming. So this really is -- it is an extremely complicated system in Vision Zero and what our Streets Department is doing, and we can get you more specifics, because there is a lot of detailed information on how these decisions are 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. made and what they're doing.
I don't want to cut you off, but one of the things that could be really helpful is how do we communicate with residents the process towards getting speed cushions and how slow it's going to be. It can't just necessarily come from us, and I think it's going to be important that we communicate this across the entire City through maybe a website, through e-mail communication, something, because right now residents -- every resident in the City of Philadelphia believes they deserve a speed bump on their block. And so maybe there has to be a level of things that you're saying that you're going to be doing, how you're doing it, because we're going to frustrate the City right now. We just came from a community meeting last night where that was the biggest topic. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we agree on the importance of education and prevention, and I know that Mike Carroll, our Deputy Managing Director for Transportation and Infrastructure Systems, is here, and I know his team is watching, so we'll make sure that we double down on that and provide that information.
Thank you, Managing Director. Thank you, Council President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Council President. Good morning, Director Thiel. DIRECTOR THIEL: Good morning, Councilmember.
Good morning, Director Geer. Thanks for being here today. As we all know, this 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Administration hit the 100-day milestone last week and dropped the 100-day report focused on public safety, which I was just kind of perusing through as Councilman Phillips was asking his questions. I want to spend some time today asking about that plan so I can understand how the Office of Public Safety is thinking about the rollout, starting with the Kensington community renewal -- revival. Excuse me. The first phase of this plan is warning and opportunity where the police and others will visit the area to give occupants a final chance to take shelter or treatment before enforcement begins in Phase 2. Phase 2 kicks off a multi-day effort to go block by block, sweeping the area, arresting folks who didn't comply during Phase 1. So I want to get very clear on the details of this. How long does the Administration plan to be in the warning 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. and opportunity phase before the sweeps begin, and what does, if you will, warning actually look like? Will written notices be given? Are you relying on word of mouth only? Can you speak to that, please? DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely, and thanks for the -- thank you for the question.
Thank you. DIRECTOR GEER: Some of this I will reserve for the Police Department in terms of the actual police actions. I'm not -- I don't want to speak on their behalf there, but I'm happy to answer this question as it relates to these phases, because I want to make it very clear. That Phase in which there's going to be outreach to individuals to attempt to connect them with services, that goes through all phases. So as a priority -- if we're in Phase 2 where 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. there are going to be enforcement of criminal violations, well, as a first step, we're still going to be offering services to those individuals. So it is -- I want to be clear that it is not as though at Phase 2 there will be no 8 opportunities that were presented in Phase 1. Those will always be available into the future. That is the primary goal of this Administration, is to connect people to services.
To be clear, all phases of this plan will include the offering of resources in each step? DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely. If there's an individual who is going to accept services, no matter where we're at, that is the plan, and that is -- that would be -- that is the top priority, top goal, absolutely. Yes.
Okay. But can you speak to me about the number of days or the weeks that you'll give 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. folks to find other arrangements or begin seeking treatment? Like what is the actual detailed day and week plan at this point? DIRECTOR GEER: I don't believe that there's been a date provided yet by the Police Department as to what that is.
Thank you. DIRECTOR GEER: Sure. But that period where we will be reaching out to people will continue and there's --
Resources will go along with that? DIRECTOR GEER: Right. There's no timeframe on that.
Thank you, Director. As sweeps occur, what is the plan for handling folks' belongings, their clothes, personal items, things that they were using for housing? Will there be a mechanism of folks to restore their belongings to return to after 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. receiving that treatment? What is the thinking along that line? DIRECTOR GEER: Yes. And, again, I really appreciate these questions, because this is getting to the point of how this needs to be done compassionately, right? When I first started doing this work and as a prosecutor, over a decade ago we weren't thinking about these kinds of things, right, but the reality of it is, as I get closer to this work, there are barriers to these folks entering treatment. Another one that I think about that I'll pull out is people who are in relationships, right? A lot of places where they'd go for inpatient housing, they won't accept the relationship, the couple to come. They separate them. And I have a wife. That would be difficult, right, to be separated if we both needed treatment. We are thinking about these issues, yes. There will be a plan to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. take in, to answer your specific question, the personal belongings.
But as it stands right now, that's not clear. DIRECTOR GEER: I'm sorry?
As it stands at the moment, it's not clear. DIRECTOR GEER: No, no. That is part of the plan. Absolutely we are planning for that, yes.
For the police and other safety partners that are involved in the actual sweeping, can you describe the training that they'll receive to ensure that medical, behavioral health needs of these folks being arrested and displaced are actually being taken into account in the process? This is something I think we raised and mentioned in the past couple days or yesterday. DIRECTOR GEER: If we're talking about the folks who would just be arrested, that would be because they 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. refused treatment and because they were doing something criminal.
No, no. 6 DIRECTOR GEER: Right. But to answer your question, and this might be better suited for the Police Department, but the officers who are going to be out there in these particular areas for this particular Kensington plan are the ones who are highly trained in interacting in sort of this kind of work, this kind of really difficult work where there needs to be nuances and there needs to be officers who have training. So I can't speak specifically to the training, but I do know that that is absolutely contemplated.
So there's an assumption that the ones that are going out there are prepared to handle the uniqueness of the situation? DIRECTOR GEER: I think that that's fair to say. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Continuing with the Kensington community revival, I want to talk about how the Administration is expanding Philadelphia's treatment capacity to serve people with addiction. In the first phase, warning and opportunity, the plan states that PPD will partner with various programs and City partners wishing to provide services and treatment, and this will be the final opportunity to take advantage of treatment and shelter services. So that kind of is cross with what you were saying earlier, which is that in every phase, services will be offered. Is that still the case? DIRECTOR GEER: No, no. I don't think that's in contradiction with what I said. If you want to read it again, I can respond, but I don't think that's in contradiction. We're very clear that if there's a person and they are in Phase 2, Phase 3, or whatever, and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. they are extended services and they accept services, whether that's through PAD, if they're PAD eligible, or that's through some other mechanism, that that will be the services that they will get.
Okay. DIRECTOR GEER: So I'm not sure what you read, but that's --
That's fine. This Administration has already acknowledged that Philadelphia's treatment capacity is far below what's needed to get the hundreds of people in addiction into long-term care. Do you have a plan to expand the City's treatment capacity so the Kensington community revival is functional in that regard? DIRECTOR GEER: So there's the mid, long term, and then there's the short term. In the short term and we in our meetings -- and we have members of our Opioid Response Unit here and members 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of the other agencies who are really going to be doing the heavy lifting here. We have reiterated over and over that we will not do anything, we will not proceed in a way that jeopardizes the folks who are out there. We will make sure that when we are offering services, that there are beds available for those services that we will be offering. So OHS, DBHIDS, they will have numbers of what services are available when they go out at any given day during Phase 1 and we'll be able to connect people to those services that we know exist. And then there's the medium and long-term work that we're doing frankly for the first time as a city.
Thank you, Director. I heard the bell. Okay. What community stakeholders have been a part of developing this plan? Can you name them, the community stakeholders that have been 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. part of the plan? DIRECTOR GEER: Sure. The NKCDC. We've had several conversations with them. There are organizations that frankly -- Officer Rosario from day one when he was appointed has been specifically over and over and over reaching out to, I believe, a great deal of his work starting out -- and the reason why he's there and the reason why I think he's supported by the people who live there is because of his community outreach and hearing what they want. But I believe that that community input that he built up, right, not just actually over when he was appointed commissioner, but prior to that for the years he's been working there, influenced the plan and --
So the Deputy Commissioner kind of holds the partnerships there in this work? DIRECTOR GEER: Well, he's the person who has been doing the work on the ground, right? I live in South Philly, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. so I'm not going to pretend to speak for the people there, but the representatives of our -- of not only our Administration but also I think the department are tied into the community.
These two -- because I'm kind of taxing my time already. When will you do an analysis of the expansions that will get done to determine whether they are sufficient to meet the need? DIRECTOR GEER: Which expansion?
The expansions to make sure that everyone has access to the long-term care. I was already asking about the treatment capacity. DIRECTOR GEER: Right.
We want to make sure that those are working and actually meeting folks' needs. Will there be a process where you're kind of analyzing them, checking them, seeing if 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. they're actually meeting the needs? Do you have that already in plan? When do you plan to do such an analysis -- DIRECTOR GEER: Yes.
-- to make sure that they're actually hitting whatever goals that you all are setting? DIRECTOR GEER: Yes. I think that's a question that folks from DBHIDS can answer. I've been in those meetings, though, where they have pretty excellent sophistication in terms of trying to understand the population that we're dealing with and --
I have more questions, but I'll get it on the second round. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nina Ahmad.
Thank you, Council President. Good morning, everyone. First 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. point, please put page numbers on your testimony. I am putting little tabs. It's very hard to follow. And I have to take speed reading classes, because we just got this all at 2:00 p.m. yesterday. I understand everybody is stressed, but it makes for us being less informed because we don't have time to get through that. Question about the Capital Projects Office. Under that section in the testimony, I don't see anything about Rebuild. Can you talk a bit more about the plans for Rebuild moving forward? And an associated question, it says consolidating architectural and engineering staff for this department. Where will these employees be coming from and what will be the impact on other departments? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I appreciate the question. I'm going to try to answer this at a level that is sufficient, and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. if not, we have Aparna Palantino here. The Rebuild projects that are in the pipeline will all be taken to completion. So anything that started out as a Rebuild project is going to be finished within our new Capital Program Office. So Aparna and her team and the Rebuild team are working together to do that, and of course in some cases, additional funding is needed. We've had those conversations with many of you, Council President. So those projects are going to be carried to completion.
And we have a schedule of which rec centers those are? DIRECTOR THIEL: Yes. We can certainly get you the latest updates on -- get all of Council the latest updates on the Rebuild projects. The Capital Program Office is being assembled from existing components -- so this is at the staff level -- from the Department of Public 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Property and from Parks and Rec and from the Rebuild staff, as well as some additional folks to bring that capability. One of the things that really work, and I wasn't here, but one of the things that we heard really worked, and we're already seeing this with what Aparna has done, is having all of the folks that we need in one place to be able to bring these projects, often complicated projects, to completion on time and on budget or as close as we can get to that. So bringing all these folks together, adding some additional staff in key roles, having folks who can expedite contract reviews and contract conformance, very close partnership with Procurement to make sure that we're doing all of those things by the letter according to all the regulations and frankly having a rock star director like Director Palantino for this effort who has experience in these different areas, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that's really been key, and we frankly are already seeing the results of that and the benefits of that.
And so the opportunity cost when things are delayed is really a problem, and that results in cost overruns in projects. So I'm hoping that your office is coordinating with L&I as well as procuring things, because that's where we see this added amount of money coming in. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, absolutely. Again, that's one of the benefits of having the CPO, as we call it, within the Managing Director's Office, because we have so many of those relevant departments, including the operating departments that often inhabit and use these buildings, whose staff use these buildings, all integrated from the beginning, and then anybody that's not part of that, because we do have a lot of other partners, intergovernmental partners, coordinating all of that in one 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. place.
So just going back to that list of Rebuild that are already targeted, does that mean after that list is exhausted there's no 7 more Rebuild projects or do we -- is there a sunset on this beverage tax? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, as far as I know, and again that might be a question for our Chief Finance Officer, the sunset on the beverage tax, as far as I understand, there is not. Those dollars will still be available for projects that are relevant to that original intent, and those projects will be executed across City departments, like Parks and Rec and other folks that were doing that work, just not necessarily with the Rebuild brand. I also want to acknowledge the philanthropic partners that helped initiate Rebuild. Those folks have been part of these conversations. They understand that we are moving forward. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. For us, I mean, candidly, the focus is really on executing those existing -- that existing portfolio to completion, plus continuing to work on all the other capital projects and programs that are across City government. And when we get to that point, I think we all are excited to get to the point where we are completing those Rebuild projects as close to on time and on budget as possible at this point, then I think there's probably a discussion about what is next. We know there are huge capital needs across the PPR portfolio and other portfolio. So I think to me the need for these types of investments does not ever sunset, at least not from what I can see, and we intend to continue those projects out of CPO with all of the relevant City departments.
Thank you. Switching to Office of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Immigrant Affairs, I was wondering how are they working to address the issue of human trafficking and what systems does the City have in place to make sure the victims are supported, and are we tracking these outcomes? DIRECTOR THIEL: Our Office of Immigrant Affairs, Councilmember, extremely dedicated group of folks, not a large team, and I know they are certainly part of our broader City efforts around human trafficking and frankly larger efforts from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, I know that our Police Department, our criminal justice partners also have equities in that. I'm not sure that our Office of Immigrant Affairs has a specific program around that. They are certainly savvy to that in very close coordination always with other City agencies.
So is there anywhere in the City where we address this outside of PPD? 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DIRECTOR THIEL: Well, no; I think everywhere, Councilmember. I know we did continuing education in the Fire Department for all of our EMS providers and firefighters about human trafficking. The Department of Homeland Security has a number of programs. So I think we are consistently making sure that people are aware of that, and OIA to the point -- the folks that they are serving, I know that they are aware of it. And also we have another program within our health and human services portfolio, our Office of Domestic Violence Prevention, that also works on that.
All right. Thank you. I'll hold my questions for the second round. Thank you, Council President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Councilmember Quetcy Lozada.
Thank you, Council President. Good morning and thank you for being here this morning. We oftentimes have said that the MDO's Office is the conductor of City services, and we've seen challenges in the past as we have tried to conduct the orchestra. Can you share with us in your time as the MDO, have you or has anyone in your office been able to count the number of the unhoused population in the Kensington community, and if so, what is that number? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, I think the -- well, first off, I haven't had much time in the Managing Director's Office, a hundred-some-odd days. I think we certainly agree that there's a need for additional coordination and collaboration resources, sort of what I was talking about before. So we're 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. making sure that we're building that capacity. I think the best numbers we have for your specific question about the unhoused population in the Kensington area that need services, those are the numbers that were provided yesterday from DBHIDS. So that number is specific to Kensington. As I recall, that number is around 675, according to their data, and citywide there's also information on their website with a citywide number. Candidly, I think those folks do a great job. We have folks in the Office of -- in OHS, Homeless Services, who do a great job counting what they can. I think we certainly want to spend additional time and attention and look for additional resources in other ways that we can make sure that we can continually validate that number. And I think as we start to build and work through this longer term -- short, medium, and long-term continuum of care, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that is also going to help us get better data. We're building in data collection. We're building in program evaluation from the beginning of that. We're having those conversations, making sure that's part of a system. You know, with any number like that, I mean, it changes every day. It's a difficult number to pin down. I think that DBHIDS Commissioner yesterday talked a lot about those challenges, and we are going to continue to invest time and resources to try to continue to refine that number.
If you heard DBHIDS yesterday, then you also heard that they don't have a strategy in doing the work and then following up on the work that they're doing on the ground, right? So while they're responding to the need, they are doing a very poor job at ensuring that people don't continue to come, not just into the City and find themselves unsheltered but 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. they can't figure out a way to stop them from coming into the Kensington footprint. Have you and your team looked at, as you stabilize the community, how do you maintain the work that you all are doing? And if you have, can you share with us what that strategy is? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, the short answer is yes. I mean, that is -- it is really important and I'm glad you said that. This needs to be -- what we are doing needs to be sustainable. And I don't mean in the sense of sustainability we're talking about the environmental sustainability, although that's a component of it. We need to be able to make sure that the very complicated system that we are building works for the long run. And so absolutely, we are thinking about all of those things, thinking about the coordination, trying to find ways to understand better the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. different populations that we're serving, including and of course putting the community at the center of this work even as we take care of patients' needs and their clinical needs, get them into long-term treatment, housing, jobs. So we are looking at this entire continuum. Again, it's extremely complicated, probably complex. There are a lot of different partners. There are a lot of challenges, but we are literally working around the clock with an interagency, an intergovernmental team to get into the details, sort of as Councilmember O'Rourke was talking about, what happens with the clothes, what happens with the possessions, where do we go from here, how do we move people the most efficient and effective way. So we're looking at all those things.
I think the priority in this community is that the laws that are in the books are upheld. So I think that what people want 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to hear from you as the conductor is that the laws in the City of Philadelphia are going to apply in neighborhoods like Kensington, because they apply in other places. And so can we get that from you? I have heard the Mayor say many times that Kensington is her priority. I believe her. She has shown me nothing different up until today. She can't have her hands in everything, right, and so we're going to depend on people like you. I want to hear your commitment to my community that we are a priority, because I believe that if we stabilize Kensington, we stabilize the City and we stabilize what is happening with the unsheltered population across the board, but I want to hear from you that there is a commitment to uphold the law. There are people in this body and in this city who don't see what that community sees every day. They are my priority because I was sent here to represent them. And so, quite frankly, I 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. don't care how long we hold their belongings. I want to see people go into treatment, but what I want to see right now is the law being upheld in my community, and I need to hear that from you. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I think if you've heard that from the Mayor, that is the person from whom you need to hear it. If you've heard it from our Police Commissioner, the way we are organized, that is our chief law enforcement officer reporting directly to the Mayor. I think you've heard it in a full-throated way from the Police Commissioner. I think you've heard it very stridently from Mayor Parker. I think you've heard it from our Chief Public Safety Director, Adam Geer. And I can tell you that the folks in the Managing Director's Office, our Opioid Response Unit, all of our departments already are -- you've heard it from Clean and Green, which actually 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. also reports directly to the Mayor. We are certainly -- while the challenges, many of the challenges we're trying to address exist all across the City, we all know that Kensington is the place that we are tackling first. You've heard that from the Mayor. My job is to execute and implement the Mayor's visions and plans. So I certainly -- if you heard it from the Mayor, you've heard it from me, because we do what Mayor Parker asks us to do.
I appreciate your response. We heard it from the Mayor before too and we heard it from his MDO and we heard it from his response teams. That's why I want to hear it from you, because that's -- my community doesn't have faith, right? We are in a different place right now. I'm sure you know that. We're in a different place right now as it relates to how they're responding to what you all are saying, but when we're hearing it from 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. other folks and not hearing it from you, who is the conductor of the orchestra, it's difficult to believe, right? Because ultimately you're the person that's going to send down the orders. And so I was just asked to ask you to put it on the record, and so I'm doing what my folks are asking me to do. And I heard the bell. I want to be respectful of that, but that's all I'm trying to get out of you. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, I appreciate that. I want to be really clear, though, with the way that our City government is organized. Some of the orders that you are talking about are not coming from or through the Managing Director. So I just want to be really clear about that. My orders come from Mayor Parker, and I can tell you that in my own time here in the City, I've spent a lot of time in Kensington, invested a lot in other programs and other agencies where I've worked. We're continuing to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. do that with restoring capacity in other places that affect Kensington, and I think my last personal -- the last personal time and hopefully the last time that I almost lost my life in the line of duty was in Kensington. So I certainly understand from a ground level what the challenges are, and I'm thankful that we have such a great team here that is working together to make Kensington a priority at the Mayor's direction and under her leadership to get it done.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Rue Landau.
Thank you. Good morning. DIRECTOR THIEL: Good morning.
Good to see you. So I have a couple of buckets 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of questions, but I'll just stay on this same line, especially while you're both up here. I just wanted to go back to the stats that we heard yesterday, because I think we're all trying to figure out how this all works together. DBHIDS said they have 1,874 beds. There are currently 109 vacancies. There are 675 people who are unhoused and in need of treatment services and potentially housing in Kensington. They believed -- I think they said they believed percent of them are 15 chronically homeless. 16 Can you talk about -- and for 17 anybody who couldn't -- for the numbers 18 that are beyond the 109 beds, there was 19 an overflow plan, but we didn't have any 20 details about the overflow plan. So I 21 wanted to know more about who is really overseeing the overflow plan. And then the second thing is, how does this interact with your triage plans and how we're going to hopefully 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. have one point of entry to all these places? I'm loving one points of entry. I've worked for the City for a long time too. We do a lot of things in a lot of places. The more we can consolidate things, the better. How these will work with the triage centers, especially if they're throughout the City. I'm just going to add one more question to that. OSH -- OHS, Shelter Services -- has changed its name over the years -- Shelters has its own intake, and will that intake be subsumed by the triage centers in any way or are our triage centers really going to be only about people with addictions? Thank you. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, I think the answer to all those questions is yes, the short answer. We don't have this all figured out, candidly. We simply don't. A lot of folks have been working on this for a long time, and we are working on it around the clock right 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. now with a lot of different partners. We are, as we just talked about, putting the community at the center of this work now, and as we are looking to -- we don't -- I don't necessarily have, to Councilmember Lozada's point, I don't necessarily have confidence, high confidence, in any of the numbers that we are told about that represent different cohorts of these populations. I certainly think there are data gaps. So we're trying to identify those and close those. At the same time, we are meeting with, I think it's safe to say -- well, we're trying to meet with everybody who might be able to provide the beds we need, the services we need in a compassionate, dignified way. So we're meeting with all kinds of people and asking them how can you expand your capacity, what do you need, how do we as a system, how does our healthcare system pay for that so it's self-sustaining. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I think one of the things while a lot of folks have been involved in this for a long time, I think there are some assumptions, certainly assumptions that even I had. The Mayor's convening of the academic healthcare systems, providers, payers, her convening towards the beginning of our first hundred days, believe it or not, was the first time that all of those folks were in the same room. And somebody raised their hand and said, you know, we should do some asset mapping. Yes. Emphatically, yes. So I think we even thought -- some of us thought who have been close to this work that a lot of folks were doing things that maybe -- everybody is busy. A lot of different aspects of this system are underresourced. We know that the broader healthcare system is arguably in crisis, and where that all plays out is on the ground in neighborhoods in Philadelphia, including in Kensington. So that is -- we're trying to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. convene these folks, catalyze these actions, answer the questions better, with a sense of urgency.
And we are truly -- you know, in an ideal world, we would have all the answers to your questions because we'd be at, you know, month to of a year and a half 9 planning process to answer every question 10 and do all the analysis before we started 11 taking action. We don't have time for 12 that. Our neighbors don't have time for 13 that. Frankly, these patients don't have 14 time for that. You've all met Mayor 15 Parker, so you know she doesn't have time 16 for that. Some of you have known me long 17 enough to know that I don't have time for 18 that. So we are moving aggressively to try to understand all the facets of this system, to build the pieces that are missing. This is a classic market failure. Nobody has done this, and because right now the way the system is calibrated, it's because there's no money 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to be made for the middle and the long term, otherwise the market would have moved in and done this. So we as a city and as far as I know, as far as I can tell from talking with other folks around the nation, we're the first city and county that is trying to address this in a holistic, systematic way. We're building new structures and systems. So we're meeting with everybody to try to understand what the need is better, to try to understand where we get initial capacity, where do we get more right now, more beds right now for folks who need help right now and how do we build the medium to long-term system and structures for care, treatment, housing, jobs.
Excellent. Thank you for that answer, and I love holistic work as well and appreciate your breaking new ground and breaking down silos, which I hear all of you saying. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I'm going to just shift quickly into another question about data, because that was a focus of mine. What's the status of the Data Management Office? Do you still have that? It was under the MDO's Office. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I'm not aware of a Data Management Office per se. That might be -- now we have a unit called IDEA. My sense is that is probably IDEA. IDEA actually gives us -- it is alive and well and gives us pretty robust capacity to do some deep-dive projects that they're doing, and we're hoping to not just build them out some more but also add -- they have a certain, and you do know this, data analytics. It's not one size fits all. So in addition to IDEA, we're building PhillyStat 360, as you've heard the Mayor talk about. There are positions for that and capacity for that. That's going to be a key aspect of this. All of our operating agencies 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. have data analytics capabilities in them. We know that my colleague here, building a data analytics capacity. Our goal is really to make sure, again to Councilmember Lozada's point, to connect and collaborate and cooperate across all of these different data analytics units. And so we are also going to be building that in as part of our operational coordination component.
Can you tell me more about IDEA? Is that going to be one place where all of the data comes? I'm looking for the next phase when we finally are collecting the right data we want. Will it be housed in one place so we can start connecting more dots and solving more problems? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, great question, Council President. The one place is going to be PhillyStat 360, so in the Mayor's Office, led by Kristin Bray. And all of these other -- because, again, that is a certain set of -- again, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the goal here is to turn these data into information. We collect a lot of data. Some of it is -- we're concerned about the validity and the reliability of some of those data. We know there are gaps. So we are going to continue to have a lot of different units that are doing data analytics around their particular specialties, and we're going to make sure that all of those top lines are connected into PhillyStat 360. And more than just looking at those data and admiring those data, we are going to be using those data. The Mayor is absolutely going to be using PhillyStat 360 data and information to hold all of us accountable for performance. That's the point. At the same time, we're going to have these other capabilities that let us do deeper dives, things like let's understand better what's going on in Kensington, what's going on in other neighborhoods, where are these folks coming from, where are they going. And 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of course the Police Department, you can already see in Commissioner Bethel's plan really putting data technology at the center of that.
I want to go back just a little bit. The expansion of our beds, right, because I know at some point in time Commissioner Bethel is going to ramp up, right, and it's the carrot or the stick, if you take the treatment. You don't take the treatment, you're going to State Road, right? And so just reiterate to me again where the beds are coming from, who we're partnering with in terms of the beds to scale up. I know you just convened with all the healthcare service providers. Are they playing a role in terms of providing the medical services that are going to be needed when it's 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. time to ramp up? I wish you would have been here when the Prisons were here, because the Prisons couldn't answer this question. But all right. So you got some people who are going to say, you know what, lock me up, I ain't going with y'all, right? So now we double, triple, quadruple the number of people on State Road, but they're still addicts on State Road, right? So give me an idea, one, the expansion of the beds; two, the medical services that are going to be provided for those individuals; and then, three, when we quadruple the amount of people that's on State Road, just the plan and strategy on how we're dealing with that. That's just something that just kind of came to -- questions that have been coming up and people have been calling me just trying to get an idea, and I said, well, I'll ask so I can be able to respond back. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I appreciate the way that you've broken that down and the way you framed it. Kind of working backwards through the questions, our goal is to not triple or quadruple the population on State Road. So our goal is to address the other facets of what you're talking about and create a system where getting the short, medium, and long-term care, treatment, and housing that folks need is preferable to spending time on State Road. That said, if we have folks who end up in the custody of the Philadelphia Department of Prisons, as you heard during their testimony, they do provide a lot of healthcare, including providing the types of services that one might need who ends up there with substance use disorder, and this Administration, again with Mayor Parker's leadership, we've actually made sustainable at the Prisons providing the proper level of care so 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. folks are not just kind of kept in this middle state, to get folks into clinically the next phase of recovery and hopefully get out again. So we also see that population. While they may come out of this system, when they come back in, when they reenter, talking with our partners about reentry, talking about where do we get jobs, how do we make sure that we give them immediate access to wherever they come out of our prisons, wherever they are in their journey, how do we make sure that they have access to what they need next, because this is part of the do-loop that we've been caught in. Everything has been short term, short term, short term. And then whether they're being treated clinically or they're in the law enforcement system, nobody can plug back in to the medium and longer term, because even where those exist, they're not necessarily connected. They haven't been viewed holistically. So we really want to not end up 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. having this go the law enforcement route. Services. Services, again, this is -- we are talking with everybody who might possibly --
This is medical services, right? DIRECTOR THIEL: Medical services, yes, sir. So everybody who can provide different levels of medical services, and this is a key point too. You know, a bed is not a bed is not a bed. There are a lot of different categories of beds, a lot of different types of clinical treatment provided sort of classified by bed, and as a result, a lot of different folks who can work in this space, many of whom have not yet been engaged. So we certainly think that there are opportunities here to build new jobs, to build our workforce, to talk with the health systems, all of whom are having challenges with recruitment and retention. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. The reality is for some of the beds that we're talking about, you don't necessarily have to have gone to nursing school or to medical school. So we're trying to ensure that we are matching up the workforce as it exists today, even as we continue to build, as Councilmember Jones was saying, we provide more opportunities with all these different partners to get folks to do these jobs. It is a tactical challenge to have the -- even when we have the physical capacity, the beds, it is a tactical challenge for us to make sure that they are properly staffed with the right level of clinical or other provider to ensure we're providing the most clinically appropriate and compassionate care that we can. So we're talking with a lot of folks to make sure that as we start to move things forward, that we have the right providers there, the right medical services there, and the right number of beds. The answer is the same 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. for beds. We're talking to everybody who might have a bed of X, Y or Z category, where are they, what does it cost for us to get them, what do you need, how much time do you need, even as we look across our own portfolio and try to figure out how many beds we can get now and months in the future -- well, I will say now, weeks, months, years, because we don't know how big the need is. And we're doing all these things at the same time with a very dedicated team to try to build something that nobody has built before.
What's the role of the District Attorney's Office and also the courts? Have we considered working with Treatment Court so those who are being arrested, right, based upon the addiction, right, Treatment Court, you go into a program, you're monitored, you're getting the addiction, the behavioral health support that you need, and then when you're 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. finished, you don't even have a record, right? Because you completed your treatment. Is that a part of this strategy? And also what's the role of the District Attorney's Office? He used to have a diversionary program, from my understanding, where if an individual gets arrested for a certain amount of drugs, they could be diverted into a treatment facility, but I'm not sure how it's being utilized, which we'll ask when we actually have him come and testify. But go ahead. DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I'm so glad you said that, because I think it is -- it's an aspect of this that is not always understood. A lot of this pipeline and this system is not necessarily in the executive branch of City government and we don't have control over that. We have some influence and frankly, thanks to Mayor Parker's leadership, an expanding amount of influence. And I'm going to turn it 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. over to our Chief --
When you say we don't have control, you mean other agencies or elected officials that are operating? DIRECTOR THIEL: Other branches of government, the courts, the DA. Those are independent branches of government.
I just want to be clear, though. So you know how we approach things, we approve all their budgets. And so at the end of the day, there's a level of accountability where we all can be at the table and the Mayor actually signs off at the end. And so there's a great level of influence in making sure everybody is participating in this mission to make our city the cleanest, greenest, safest city in America, with economic opportunity for everybody. Mr. Adam Geer. DIRECTOR GEER: I think that that's right what my colleague Adam 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. stated about sort of the force of the Mayor here, right? And it's really the force of the City in this notion of One Philly, which our Mayor loves to say, and I'm a believer and I'm a believer when we've been at some really difficult situations, some really difficult challenges, right, in looking around and seeing the partners that we have there. And I think that that's a credit to the leadership of this city and thus understanding what we need to do for our citizens, right?
Is the District Attorney at the table with you in your strategy? DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely.
That's all I -- DIRECTOR GEER: Absolutely. He's a partner and an important partner.
Is the courts at the table with you in terms of your strategy? 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DIRECTOR GEER: Yes. Yes. We've met with court leadership. We are all very, very interested in aligning and aligning --
Interested in aligning versus are they at the table actively participating and working with you on your strategy? DIRECTOR GEER: That strategy, and there are certain things that are in development. And the answer is yes. The short answer is --
I'm going to support you, but I just need a yes, no, they're at the table, we meet, they're an integral part of making sure that we're just not criminalizing a whole population of people. We want them to get treatment. They can go to Treatment Court, get the addiction support that they need where I can get a response. They have -- because here's the other part: We want them to get jobs, right, because we just talked about this, but if 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I'm getting locked up and I'm getting a felony because I get high, I ain't getting no job. I'm not going to get a real sustainable job, because now I got a felony. Nobody wants to hire me. So another way to approach it to take into consideration, the drug dealers need to get roofed, give them 100 years, right? But the ones who are really suffering that we're going to help, right -- because I'm on plan. I support the Kensington Caucus, but also recognize addiction is a disease, right? Don't give them a felony for a disease. Treat the disease, right, and do all the holistic things that we're doing. And I'm just saying courts could play a major role in helping people get their lives together without getting a felony, if you can take into consideration to be a part of your strategy. DIRECTOR GEER: 100 percent. And I'll be shorter this time. Yes. We have tremendous partners in the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. judiciary. We've net with judiciary leadership. We are continuing to have conversations. They're at the table.
My man. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Isaiah Thomas.
Good morning, Council President. I actually had no questions about Kensington coming into today, but listening to my colleagues' line of questions have created some questions about Kensington. Before I start, I want to be very clear. I'm not a part of the Kensington Caucus, but I'm in Kensington a lot. My son goes to school in Kensington. I will be there today. I run a free basketball camp in Kensington, have done for the last couple years. Heck, I even went to Conwell Middle School. So I've seen the change in Kensington over the last years, because I 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. don't want to give up my age. You said earlier that you've been meeting with community organizations. I think it was Councilmember O'Rourke's question. And the organization you named was New Kensington CDC. I'm hoping that you can give us a list of other organizations that you've been meeting with in Kensington to craft this plan, because that was the only organization you named. Now, look, I want to be clear, as I was sitting here listening, I sent out some texts to say, hey, have you heard of the Mayor's plan to clean up Kensington and has anybody reached out to you. Nobody has said, oh, yeah, we've talked to the Admin, we're well aware of what's going on. So outside of Kensington CDC, who else have you been talking to about this plan and what you're looking to do? And then also I think it was Councilmember Rue Landau. I think the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. number she said was 600 -- around 600 homeless folks and --
657 in Kensington. No way I believe that number, right? There's no way I believe that that is the actual number. That might be what you see on Kensington Avenue, but if you go to the railroad tracks, if you go under 95, I can show you some interesting places where you'll see people have set up encampments. So, number one, what are the organizations that you're talking to down there and, number two, where did the 675 number come from? DIRECTOR THIEL: Well, I'll start with number two and let my colleague handle number one. That number is from DBHIDS's outreach teams, a lot of work that they've done. I also have frankly concerns about that number and whether it's understated. So I don't take that number as gospel. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Also, we know and we are going to be doing a lot of work with the Office of Homeless Services. Those folks that they have working there are extremely dedicated, and they have some real limitations to what they can do and where they can go. I know from my experience in my last role, I think there are a lot of folks who are inside buildings and other structures who may or may not get counted when we do the annual Point-in-Time Count. So we are also concerned about the numbers, which is why we are building -- we tend to think there's a lot of need, and that is why we are looking for capacity, bed, and treatment capacity, housing for the long term, jobs anywhere and everywhere. So that's our piece of it. DIRECTOR GEER: Thank you. I'm seeing if we can get a more definitive list of community organizations, but we in my office have two positions rather 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that are dedicated to community partnerships specifically with Kensington. We have had considerable contact with the community over the last several of months in informing them when we get information when we are working with the police plan, which frankly that police plan, yes, with the City was being developed internally with our City agencies as we were moving forward. I think it's important to make the distinction here between this initial phase, if you will, or this initial planning that the PPD through Commissioner Rosario is sort of spearheading and being supported by our agencies and what will be a broader, longer, more sustained, engaged conversation with the Kensington community and the plan that gets towards Phases 3, 4, 5, turning over to the community. That is frankly work that we -- and we've had conversations internally about this -- need to be more 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. intentional about. In fact, the first time I met with NKCDC, they expressed some of the similar sentiments that you express, right? Why aren't we at the table here? Who is at the table in the beginning of this plan? And we have made assurances to them that as we move forward, we are going to continue to be intentional, but where I think the real heavy lifting is going to come is in these additional phases, 2, 3, 4, 5, where we're really letting not only our legislators but our community leaders and our community organizations be at the table for how they want to see their community.
So I'm not as informed as other Councilmembers are as it relates to this particular issue, so I'm not going to speak what you're doing or not doing. What I will say is that the people who are in my universe that I deal with in Kensington on a consistent basis have heard nothing. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I would also say as the Chair of the Education Committee that it would be very disappointing to execute any type of plan in Kensington without talking to the schools in Kensington. I'm sure that hasn't happened yet as well either, and I would recommend that there be a dialogue with the leaders in the schools, because those young people are the ones who are listening to -- everybody talk about all the time we don't want them to see this, we don't want them to experience this. And if they are the people that we are trying to protect in this effort to clean up Kensington, there's no way that we do this without having a conversation with them and the impact it's going to have on dismissal, arrival, out-of-school-time-based initiatives and anything else that's going on. That's a shame that I lost all my time to Kensington. DIRECTOR GEER: Can I respond to that, Councilmember? Because that is 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. an incredibly important point, and I know that Commissioner Rosario -- and I want to reemphasize this, because the fact of the matter is Commissioner Rosario has been meeting with anyone and everyone who has an interest across the board, no 8 matter what the spectrum, in getting their feedback, including the principals, which is a very good point, Councilmember, and my understanding is that he has a very good relationship with them.
I'm just going to respectfully push back on that, right? Like I have a text message in my phone right now that says, hey, Isaiah, I was just about to reach out to you because we haven't heard from anyone about that. I literally started a conversation by saying, my son goes to school in Kensington. DIRECTOR GEER: Was that a principal, Councilmember?
I'm 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. sorry. Say it again. DIRECTOR GEER: Was that a principal?
CEO. CEO. The CEO of the school is saying I've never heard from anything. So I'm not trying to like have this quarrel back and forth, but I'm 100 percent sure that you're not talking to all the schools in Kensington, because I'm literally in the middle of a conversation with a school right now who says they have never heard from the Mayor's Office, the Mayor's team about anything. So as the Chair of the Education Committee, I'm saying that it's important that we have a conversation with all of the schools, because they're directly impacted by this work. Now, if you want, I can reach out to Conwell. She's a great woman, find out what happened with that principal. Councilmember Lozada had the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. principals of Kensington here in City Council to honor and recognize them for the work that they're doing. So these are people we have a text relationship with. So I'm not going to give you information that's not necessarily accurate, especially if it's on the record. Council President, I definitely want to be queued up for a second round, because I have a lot of questions about a lot of other things under the Managing Director's Office, including ACCT, which will have a direct impact on the work that you're looking to do in Kensington. Thank you, Council President, and second round, please, sir. If I can go one more question. So I won't go second round. So when we did the appropriations transfer last fall, one of the issues that we had was the Animal Care and Control Team. That organization was concerned because they are in the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. midst of contract negotiations, and like the rest of us, we're struggling to hire as a city, they also are struggling to hire. They came before City Council because they wanted to see a transfer ordinance approved to be able to get a pay raise for the workers, because they can't hire people to take these jobs. They felt like if they didn't get an appropriate amount of funding from the City, they will have to dismantle the organization, and then those services the City would essentially have to provide, which will cost us a lot more than the $6.8 million, $6.9 million that you all have allocated to ACCT. My question is, based on what you've allocated, and we are going to follow up with them to get their opinion as well too, do we have enough money to meet the contractual obligations that was negotiated last year and will we be able to assure ACCT is fully funded to the point where as though City government 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. does not have to take over the services of dealing with a lot of things that I know I would never want to deal with myself? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I appreciate the question. I've been here long enough and in enough roles that I've been in a position where we did have to take over those services or substantially augment those services directly. So we agree, ACCT provides a very important service. The answer to your first question is yes. The pay raise has been negotiated and we are covering it. There are not additional resources proposed for FY25. We will continue to work closely with ACCT to make sure that they are able to provide the services necessary.
That's good to hear, because I will hear from them to come before City Council to ask us to advocate for more money or some 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. type of transfer proposal, because they had to do that with the last Administration because the support wasn't there. Council President, I'm sorry. I do have to come back for a second round, because I have to ask issues around unsolved murders as well as issues related to our prison. I do apologize. Thank you for the time.
No 13 problem. The Chair recognizes Councilmember J. Young, and then we will go into -- Harrity, did you press your button? Because it's not lit up.
Just wanted to double check. Okay. Then we will go into our second round. Councilmember Jeffery Young.
Thank you so much, Mr. President. The first question I have, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. looking at your budget, the Zero Fare Program. This is a program essentially that is working toward, I guess, eliminating fares for certain populations. Your budget asks for four workers, four positions is $730,000, which is average of 182,500 per position, right? So can you tell us who these people are, what their jobs are if the average would be $182,000? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, that's actually -- some of those dollars are shared over to 3-1-1 to do some of that work. So it's not like there are four people who are making that number that you just put out there.
Which portion is dedicated to 3-1-1 and which portion is dedicated to the Zero Fare Program? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, we'll have to get back to you on that exact split.
Thank 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. you. Question regarding Rebuild. Looking in the Five Year Plan for the capital programs, you have no performance measures for capital programs. And given that there are some, I guess -- there are costs, higher costs, associated with Rebuild with everything, like how can we as a Council determine what the viability of the capital programs are if you don't have any performance measures associated with that? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I appreciate the question. The CPO is literally a brand new office. Their executive order was just signed. Rest assured that we will absolutely, as with every other City agency, be building out performance measures as they continue to consolidate workforces and do that initial work.
It's a new office, but it's not new work, right? So, again, you're consolidating other 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. offices. You're consolidating Rebuild, you're consolidating some folks from Public Property, all these different agencies. So there are programs that are continuing to operate under the Capital Program. So did they have performance measures? Did they have things that we can look at to see if they're working or not? Because we're -- again, like Rebuild, for example, we are continuing to do Rebuild under this program. So there had to be some kind of performance measures for Rebuild and those programs. Can you continue to just let us know what they are? Because now we're funding an office where we can't necessarily track how they're doing now. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, the prior performance measures for the different units that are now -- have now been sort of taken into CPO are still there in prior years' budgets or in the other agencies to which they were assigned. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. CPO is a new office. We think that this is a fundamentally different, more efficient and ultimately more effective way of doing this business, to your point.
I agree. DIRECTOR THIEL: And -- I'm glad you agree. As a result, we think that the performance measures that we'll be using, the key performance indicators for CPO, are going to be materially different from whatever was used for Rebuild and the different component organizations in the past. So we are absolutely going to be making sure as we build out CPO and consolidate it, get it moving forward together, we will have performance measures, and it will be assessed, that agency like all others, through PhillyStat 360.
I think this is probably the most important office that we have in our city because 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. it deals with the physical infrastructure and what our kids see daily. You look at our rec centers. I have probably -- I may have the most rec centers out of all the Councilmembers, right, and Rebuild has essentially stalled in my district and we're just trying to figure out answers on why. Like we have a program for the Cecil B. Moore Rec Center that's supposed to be demolished and a brand new rec center being built, but that program has stalled because of costs and a bunch of other things, and I just don't want to let bureaucracy get in the way of the things that we actually need to improve our communities. And my last question is regarding the Office of the Victims Advocate. Essentially the Police Commissioner proposed -- and I listened to the line of questioning that the Council President was asking, but the Police Commissioner proposed this idea that they are asking for money to be more 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. responsive to victims. So how can we assure that there isn't any redundancy with the Office of Victim Advocates with the new proposed efforts of the Police with their ask for money to address the victims? DIRECTOR GEER: I think as -- thank you for the question. As contemplated, the individuals who will be working in the Police Department will be working very closely with their homicide detectives and will almost be like managing or caseworkers for the co-victims of those homicide cases. So the difference there, I think the critical difference, is they're a level of access to the information as it relates to the cases, the specific cases and families, from each of these homicide unfortunate incidences. So they'll be able to have direct contact with those detectives, understand where they are with the cases, be able to answer those questions, things that aren't necessarily 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. in the direct purview or closer control of our office of the Victim Advocate. I will take a step back, though, and say that there's a tremendous amount of work that we can be doing here overall. So this is a very welcome, I think, ask, and I think it will go a long way to showing how we actually feel and care and deal with members of our community who are dealing with literally the worst thing that's happened in their lives, right? So I think they're going to be working together. You've already heard how Ms. Combs operates in terms of building connections with other victim advocacy groups. So I don't think that there will be -- I think they'll be able to find their lanes and it's going to be a very successful operation inside the Police Department.
Thank you. I'll wait for the second round 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. for my next question, Mr. President.
Thank you. What are we doing or how -- what strategies is the Administration contemplating regarding the spread of or the dissemination of information to communities that are outside of the Kensington area regarding the plans, right? Because I know you're speaking to folks in Kensington who are directly affected, but we see that when there is concentrating enforcement, those folks are just going to spread around and move, right? So what are we doing in those outlying neighborhoods and communities to help those communities prepare for what is possibly to come? DIRECTOR GEER: I can tell you in speaking to Commissioner Rosario that they are aware, right? They've already -- they are aware that any 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. actions that they may have may lead to individuals going to other areas that are either close by or other areas of the City. That is part of their plan. I don't want to speak for them, but I know that they're aware of that. We have been receiving reports of an individual here or there who may be leaving that Kensington-Allegheny corridor, and he is made aware of that and they are dealing with that and making that a part of the plan. So I can't speak to the communications largely in terms of what specifically we might be messaging to people, but I will say that if there is any information that we're receiving from the public, we're taking that and doing something with it. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, I'll just add from kind of a health and human services perspective, it's an important point that you're making. We are building -- the system that we are 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. building is to serve the entire City and with Kensington as a priority. So we are starting in Kensington. I think we've been very clear about that. And we know that the ultimate system that we are building for long-term care, treatment, and housing has to be citywide and potentially beyond, because people move around.
And just going back to my original question I had probably on the first day, will a plan for the $100 million capital ask be in place before we conclude this budget process? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, that is a very reasonable question. The short answer is yes.
You took my question. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. We're in the second round. Just following up on Councilmember Jeffery Young, we just look forward to the actual plan just so we can talk about the actual details, locations, and I think as we wrap up the budget process, folks will have their questions answered. So thank you for the short, direct response. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nicholas O'Rourke.
Thank you, Council President. And thank you again, Directors Thiel and Geer, for your responses so far. I wanted to continue on a line of questioning that I had. This is actually publicly accessible information, but can you just state for the record how much is MDO budgeting in operating dollars for the triage and wellness centers? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Council President, we do not have General Fund operating dollars in the proposed FY25 budget to operate the sort of triage and wellness system that we're talking about, because at the same time that we were doing all the things that we've talked about, we are working with payers and providers to understand what the impediments are, what the opportunities are to having the healthcare system and having the payment mechanisms that already exist pay for some of this care. So we are doing those convenings with insurance providers, with the healthcare systems. So we don't actually know that net.
Forgive me, Director Thiel. The information that I had, and I could be totally wrong, was that this was accessible information that you all had 3 million for FY24 and 1.5 million for FY25. Is that not accurate? DIRECTOR THIEL: We have money 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. in FY24, reallocated dollars that we are using for this initial work. So we are obviously -- we are needing to hire people and do work now, so in FY24, we have money for -- again, seed money. Similarly, the hundred million dollar capital investment is also seed money, as we're trying to build out a broader capital stack to be able to deal with the capital aspects of this.
Is that the 5 million? Is that the 5 million figure? The $5 million in the budget, is that what we're speaking to here? DIRECTOR THIEL: No. I think it's -- the FY24 is -- so 5 million in FY24 that's reallocated. Again, it might be we have multiple pots of reallocated money that we're trying to use to accelerate this work, and we're --
And you were saying like moving -- there's not a lot of cuts. There's a lot of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. moving around. DIRECTOR THIEL: Yes, sir. That's correct. These are from other programs that underspent and also there was some money moved into our budget by Finance for mayoral priorities --
Understood. DIRECTOR THIEL: -- that we are using for this. That was around $6.7 million.
Understood. And because I'm green, let me make sure I understand this. Will this all be Class 200 funds for contract services? Is that how it will be? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, the money we have in FY24 is largely Class 200 money to accelerate this work. The dollars in FY25 and beyond are capital dollars, and we're hoping to get non-General Fund sources to pay for whatever the operational wraparound is that ends up being the responsibility of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the City to make this whole thing work.
Got you. Is it true that MDO has not yet determined as of now which vendors will manage or oversee the triage and wellness centers, which vendors? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, that is largely -- I think the bottom line, the way that you phrased that question is, yes, it is true that we have not yet determined the ultimate ecosystem of providers that are going to be helping us with this work. We are talking with a lot of people.
Thank you very much. And what is the expectation for what the funding will actually get us that I've already asked about? Specifically, how many centers will be operated, what specific services will be offered at the centers, and how many employees will be needed? Any of that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. information available? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, the short answer is, as much as we can get. Again, we simply don't know, because some of this there has not been a market for, so we are kind of charting new ground for the medium to long-term components. The short-term piece, we are meeting with people, getting proposals every day, and trying to understand how to make this initial -- these initial dollars get us through the balance of FY24, while at the same time we're talking with insurance providers, healthcare systems, and other providers about how we can make existing payment mechanisms work and also talking with philanthropic partners, talking with other folks about other funding streams that might help us do this.
Thank you very much. Just one more try. How will only five -- you know what, let me just state, as I understand, I think you 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. mentioned earlier that you almost lost your life in the line of duty in Kensington, and I am sorry to hear that news. I want to affirm that for those who are doing the hard work there. I should say that my line of questioning comes from a spirit of recognizing that there is -- I don't think that anyone is under any illusions that there is a question around how to address the question of Kensington in and of itself. I think that's unilaterally kind of agreed upon. The concern has been about the method and the way by which we approach that. And so while I do know that there are those who are committed even in this body and beyond to approaching it one way, it will always be my call to make sure that there's a compassionate approach. And compassion doesn't just mean putting the work compassion over an undetailed plan and then executing that plan without any regard for the impacts. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Compassion is a materialist analysis. It's addressing the actual method, the rollout or the numbers or the details, where do these things exist, what do we mean by beds. All of that is what allows us to realize what compassion looks like and thereby save as much life and improve the quality of life for all of those who will go into it. I had some more questions around Immigrant Affairs as well as OEM that I maybe will submit for the record, because I know this is the second round, but I thank you for your transparency in this. The idea, again, is to make sure that we are ensuring quality of life and that we're doing this the right way so it doesn't become a tragedy in the making because we weren't thorough in our preparations and in the way that we rolled it out. Thank you very much. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, we agree. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Thank you, Member. Just a quick question. So 100 million for the actual capital on the triage centers, correct? DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President --
To build, to build out, right? DIRECTOR THIEL: Yes, sir.
Let's say we have XY building, and part of that hundred will go to retrofitting and making sure the building is right-sized for bringing in patients. Are we depending solely on private sources for the actual operations of the actual facility? DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, it's a great question. We are trying to build this in a self-sustaining 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. way. We're trying to build this system in a self-sustaining way with the Mayor's bold vision to catalyze this. We've not seen anybody else doing that.
We all agree. DIRECTOR THIEL: We don't want to be dependent on any one source, so we're trying to get --
Just hear me out. We're all on board. We get the Mayor's plan, safer, cleaner, greener city, with economic opportunity for everybody. We are all on board with that. All right? We're just talking some specifics, because we get questions and we got to do our fiscal due diligence, right, to make sure what we're signing off on is detailed and accurate for the people who sent us here. So just wanted to get the other aspect of once the capital is done and we have the buildings and they're right-sized and you're ready to bring in all the people 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that we're going to help comprehensively, because we're going to help these people, we're going to clean up Kensington, but then somebody has to actually do the operation. Somebody has to be the counselors, somebody has to be the therapist, somebody has to do the medical, and as of right now, there is no 10 funding to do that aspect. As they say, you build it, then they will come. I just wanted to get clarity on it. Is that what we're saying? DIRECTOR THIEL: Council President, I think the short answer is yes, and as we are continuing to move forward through this planning process in a very dynamic environment, we will have answers for our initial approach for you before the end of the budget process, even as we continue to hope that we can actually change the game here in Philadelphia that is currently being played and is leaving our communities and patients frankly left holding the bag. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
We support that as well. And, again, I'm an advocate of the Kensington Caucus. Matter of fact, we just did a bill on behalf of Quetcy Lozada for the special committee on Kensington, but always the devil is in the details in making sure we're doing our due diligence. So those were the questions that come to my mind listening to you and also listening to the line of questioning of Councilmember O'Rourke. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nina Ahmad.
Thank you, Council President. I have a question about the Animal Care and Control Team. They're the only resource we have in Philadelphia that just amazes me, and they do great work. So I wanted to ask, in their FY25 strategic goal, they have a community outreach goal saying increase outreach in the community to proactively address the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. disparities facing pet owners that are resulting in more animals coming to the shelter. Is there a specific outreach program with resources that will help people keep their animals? That's one. And two is, when we're doing this Kensington sweep, what is going -- a lot of people have animals, right? And, listen, animals are a therapeutic measure for us. It is a mental health resource having a pet. So it's very important we understand how we're dealing with that issue when that crops up. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I appreciate the question and, again, it just goes to show the complexities of what we're trying to do here. It is another facet of this that we need to be considering and understanding. Agreed that our Animal Care and Control Team is incredibly dedicated. We're thankful for the work they do. We 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. wish there was more capacity there. We constantly talk with them. And we can certainly get you examples of some of their outreach and educational materials.
So the question is, is there any money -- that's what it will take -- for people to buy their pet food, to get their pet to the vet? Is there any maybe public-private venture to do that to really support? Because I don't think we should underestimate the role animals, pets play in our lives. And so it would behoove us to actually have some focus on this and not just be an add-on as a site. This can stop people from going to treatment. Not knowing how their animal will get treated will stop people from going to treatment. So it's really important that we take this seriously, because people who love animals, have animals, those are family members. They are four-legged family members. They could be two-legged too, but... 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. So I just wondered that we should put some emphasis on this if we're going to be holistic in really wanting success for people to go into these programs and really get some help. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, again, we agree. As we've been meeting with folks, a lot of different folks during the design -- again, remember, we're designing a system and structures that don't exist and designing facilities. We've heard that from folks with lived experience and other things that we are trying to include in facilities design and also in all the work streams that play into that, transportation. I mean, how do you handle transportation, how do you take care of things. We heard some of this earlier. All of those factors are important and, to your point, can have influence on whether or not somebody comes in for treatment. And so, yes. Again, this, I 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. think, shows the complexity of what we're trying to do here.
My next question is about the anti-violence community grants program, which is slated for million. So are there any 8 specific new initiatives or changes in 9 the program since the evaluation last 10 year, and will the same organizations be 11 awarded the grants or is there a new RFP 12 process? And is there inclusion of 13 mental health resources? And I asked 14 this question of DBH yesterday and I did 15 not get a clear answer where there are 16 things like CBT are going to be included 17 along with the actual program. They may 18 or may not have the resources for 19 themselves to offer that. 20 Will we have DBH be part of it 21 or Community Behavioral Health looking 22 into who can join up in order to make 23 these programs really effective? 24 I do believe that CBT was something I believe Joshu Harris had 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. given us information prior to -- I can't remember when he gave it, but he said that CBT was getting included in some of the anti-violence work. So I just wanted to know where it fits, who is paying for it, how does it actually get tabulated and counted to see what success looks like with these programs. DIRECTOR GEER: Thank you for that question, Councilmember. Yes, that is an important part of I think when we're giving our grants out, right? Frankly, I think we would need to, through particularly this Director of Performance Management, put into place a better, more robust way of understanding how this plays into our grantees, because we do think that it is incredibly important to our work. We as an office understand that dealing with trauma directly relates to reducing gun violence and violent crimes, period. So that is going to be a part of our work, and we will do a better job of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. trying to understand what that is. So in terms of getting specifics in terms of the numbers of CBT and how much that is actually into our program, we'd have to get that back to you.
So at the moment, you don't really have that as a requirement of some mental health resources for anti-violence programs? DIRECTOR GEER: So as part of our GVI program, yes, we do have a specific component for that.
So we could get numbers into -- which non-profit is getting the funding and what is their mental health plan? DIRECTOR GEER: I will have to get back to you on that.
Okay. And the last question is about Office of Victims Advocate. I wanted to know -- I know there's a -- DAO has one and PPD has a resource as well. Who is -- I believe 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DAO is supposed to be the one who paid for the funeral expenses and other actual resources. Is our office here doing that as well, and what is the coordination? And sometimes when I've sat with grief-stricken families, this is so much going on, and to have three resources coming to them and none of them giving them actual resources is the fear I have, right? So it sounds good we do this, but where's the coordination with all the different places who are coming into that family's home when they're sitting and grieving? DIRECTOR GEER: I'm going to have Ms. Combs answer that question.
Thank you for that question, Councilmember. I just want to make sure I understand it correctly. You're asking that as the services through my office are disseminated to support survivors of crime and co-victims of homicide, that we're not duplicating the services already available through 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the District Attorney's Office?
I mean, duplication might mean more services, more money, but funeral resources, you know, replacing income, all of those things. I don't know exactly how much a family gets currently without your office and does that change when your office is in the picture?
So to be clear, victims of crime and the co-victims of homicide, we're provided reimbursement-based funds through the state. So that is the same entity that the District Attorney's Office, the victim service agencies, my office connects victims to by way of helping them file for those claims or providing them information in terms of how to file 21 directly. So just to be clear, that funding all comes from state funding through the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency through the Victims 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of Crime Act, through VOCA funding.
So we are not putting any money in this outside of staffing, correct?
That -- but to be clear, there's also additional things that are needed, such as the relocation support, such as the crime scene remediation. So there is additional funding coming from the City to, in a way, fill the gaps and complement what isn't available through the state, because all of that funding is, like I said first, reimbursement based, which assumes that folks have that money on the front end to pay for stuff, which we all know is inaccurate and not rooted in reality of our city, but also the funding levels are not indicative of how much things actually cost in real life as opposed to maybe how much they cost 20 years ago. So we are complementing the things that are available, but we are in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. no way adding money where money is already in existence to those folks.
So just last clarification. When PCCD does this reimbursement, for a family who doesn't have that, how do they operate? Like what happens then?
So to make sure I understand your question, so when folks apply for support through the state, they're able to get money for medical expenses, for certain relocation under a certain amount and for certain instances that qualify, for crime scene cleanup inside of the home up to a certain amount, for lost wages as well as counseling services and a number of other things that are available through the VOCA fund. But like I said, in addition to that, the money that we request, whether that be for relocation services as well as some funding that we had previously requested to help folks with funeral expenses, is to do exactly that, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to make sure that folks that don't have the money to pay the above amount from what the state offers are able to take care of that. So there's a lot of money needed to support those families that can not be supplied by the state, because as I stated earlier, that money is being cut, so we're looking to make sure that Philadelphians don't feel that burden by adding funds to that.
Thank you, Council President. I just have a really quick question. As we work to restore quality of life in Kensington, we've heard you 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. say many times that partners are going to be necessary. Community residents have expressed some concern and some challenges around some of the partners that we currently have on the ground. While we understand that, harm reduction work is extremely important in order to be able to connect folks with resources. What are we doing to better coordinate specifically the mobile units that oftentimes park in residential blocks kind of drawing folks off of the commercial corridor and onto residential neighborhoods and really impacting how residents move in and out of their homes? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, you raise an important point, and I want to be clear about this as well. There are a lot of folks who are doing life-saving work across the City in Kensington and elsewhere, and we want that work to continue. We think there's still going to be a need for it. To be really clear, we all 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. understand and appreciate the importance of harm reduction, and we know that that alone is not enough, which is why we are here and why we are reallocating resources and putting new resources into building out the rest of the system, the medium and the long-term parts of the system. We are meeting -- we have been meeting with existing providers and making sure that they understand that there is a new standard. They need to do things differently to make sure that they are also considering in addition to the patients and the folks they serve, that they are considering the community and the neighborhood impacts. That is not something that I had heard as being a problem, and we will absolutely take that back and help ensure that there is better coordination for where those mobile units are going and what they're doing. So I appreciate you raising that. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Again, this is the type of thing as we were talking about not just with 3-1-1, but this is the coordination capability that we're trying to build 24/7 to make sure that things like that are addressed in a more cohesive way and a community-centered way. So I appreciate you raising that, and we will go back and talk to those folks and make sure that that's being done better.
Let me recommend that you meet with Kensington Neighbors for Better Living, because we've had two meetings with the past Administration, specifically with Noelle and others, where they have expressed serious concern around mobile providers, and the agreement was that we would have them coordinate amongst themselves, which created a bigger issue. So it is going to be extremely important for us to actually take the lead. Again, we recognize that the work is extremely important. We just 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. need to make sure that we are not reducing harm for one population while increasing harm for another. I believe that was my last question, Councilmember. I just needed to make sure that I put that on the record. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Rue -- she left. Councilmember Isaiah Thomas.
Thank you, Council President. A couple things. Prisons, we have a new Prisons Commissioner, so I didn't want to burden the new Commissioner with too much, but Prisons based on the flowchart will fall under you all, specifically the Managing Director's Office. What should we be doing to ensure some of the issues that we're 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. seeing at the Prison gets addressed? What is your vision? Do you believe the current advisory board is capable of providing meaningful oversight? And based on the lawsuit that we've seen, the court-appointed independent monitors, that tactic might not be working. So how long do we expect these current problems to exist? What are we doing as it relates to the independent monitors? Do you feel like the advisory board is an effective way to do oversight, and the overall plan to improve safety with our Prisons? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I appreciate you asking the question. Clearly Prisons and improving conditions in our prisons is a priority for Mayor Parker, which is why we've hired a new Commissioner, Commissioner Resnick. He starts on April 22nd, and he certainly has coming in -- I will frame it as a positive -- the benefit of a lot of information 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. around things that need to be done. And I want to be very clear too. The folks who are working in our Philadelphia Department of Prisons are incredibly dedicated. They are providing a 24/7/365 service. They are understaffed and underresourced. There are items throughout this Five Year Plan, capital items, to both improve conditions and improve security at our Prisons facilities. There are items in here to provide Commissioner Resnick with the resources that he is going to need to build a team, to provide professional development, to restore the morale, and of course ultimately to restore the staffing complement of PDP. Right now they have, I think, still have 50 candidates who are in to be correctional officers. We need folks. These are very important jobs. And I'll repeat for folks who are watching, phila.gov/jobs. We are hiring for 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. correctional officers. So we're looking at frankly every aspect of the Prisons operation, with the benefit of these different resources that you've talked about, and we're going to let Commissioner Resnick get in --
The advisory? DIRECTOR THIEL: -- start getting it done. I can't -- I think we're going to let -- we will let Commissioner Resnick assess the advisory board and assess the staff. Now, to be clear, that's again -- we're not going to spend -- we are already taking action, so we are not waiting for Commissioner Resnick to come, which is why you see so many different investments in PDP here. We are working with Local 159, negotiating with them on their contract. I think you saw during the announcement of Commissioner Resnick, you saw 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. incredibly enthusiastic support from Local 159 there in the room. I think everybody is excited about Commissioner Resnick coming on board, and we're going to give him a minute, and just a minute, to take stock and move forward, and we've given him the resources in this budget, thanks to the Mayor, to start getting things done and changing conditions.
Somebody who has maybe been around a little while then, if you can give us something in writing on that advisory board, what is the Mayor's position as it relates to the advisory board and how effective do we think the board is or isn't. Clearly my staff have been talking about possible legislation to look at different type of oversight. So we want to know where the Mayor's opinion is, know what's working, what's not working as we craft that legislation throughout the course of the year. I want to change directions. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Under the Managing Director's Office, you have the Office of Children and Families, and I have to give Ms. Vanessa a huge shout-out. She's amazing, pleasure to work with over the last couple years advocating and dealing with young people. You have a concept that you're introducing called the Sports Fund. I'm assuming that's going to come under the Managing Director's Office, correct? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, if it's in the Office of Children and Families, it is located in the Managing Director's Office, yes.
I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking. Is it going to be under the Office of Children and Families? Is it going to be under the Managing Director's Office? DIRECTOR THIEL: I think we're currently conceiving that as being in the Office of Children and Families.
Awesome. That would be great. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I just want to put a shameless plug in for myself and other members of Council. We've been advocating for years for the City to create a Sports Fund. We actually used the Cultural Fund as an example, looking at what we do with the Cultural Fund for arts and culture, which is an amazing thing. We've been advocating for the same thing for sports. I could hear Councilmember Jones's speeches in my head about track and field. I know the Council President was on the Appropriations Committee last year where he fought for money for South Philly organizations. I've advocated for Philly Legendary Hoops Month. For the first time ever, we gave money to Pop Warner Football. So I'm wondering, number one, what is the plan to have Council included in this initiative? And, number two, is it only for young people or is it for adult-based sports? And, number three, with this Sports Fund being in place, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. will this impact other advocacy efforts and initiatives that we've had in the past to provide City grants and resources to sports-based programming? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I think working backwards, I think we certainly hope that there will be additional dollars from multiple sources to help support youth sports across the City. As far as the specific configuration and the priorities of that program, I think those are still under development.
So I would want us to know what that is going to consist of before we vote for it. DIRECTOR THIEL: Certainly.
At the end of the day, it could put us in a position where organizations that's been getting funded by the City for years may now be disqualified because we create this Sports Fund, and let's say the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Sports Fund is only for children and you decide that all sports money must go through the Sports Fund and is only for youth-based sports programing. That would eliminate some of other initiatives that we've already put in place that are phenomenal programs and events. The last thing I'll say, because I heard the bell, and I do want to commend Adam Geer. I want to commend Adam, because he's already hit the ground running with some of this stuff, but it's important that we put it on the record. I love the position. I love the work you're doing. We've had a number of high-profile homicides in the City of Philadelphia. This year in 2024 -- and we talk all the time about how insensitive it is to hit the reset button, but as government, that's how we function. I'm sure we -- I know for a fact we had high-profile homicides in the years to come, but looking at this Administration's priority and focus on 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. not just cleaner and greener but a safer Philadelphia, just as I close out -- this is my last thing, Council President -- can you talk to us a little bit about your plan to address people's perception of our city? While we can talk about the data and numbers, they are trending in the right direction. I'm not going to say that the work isn't being done, but the perception, is it reflective of the data? So when we have a high-profile homicide, especially when it's caught on camera, we have no arrest, we have nothing, it doesn't -- those incidents do not help the perception issues that we have and they don't match the data and the direction that the City is trending in. So what is your plan and what is your vision to attack this perception problem? Because at the end of the day, we have a lot coming up in the next couple years and we want people not just 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. in Philadelphia but people who visit Philadelphia to know that our city is safe. DIRECTOR GEER: Thank you for that question, Councilmember. It is much appreciated, because when we go out sometimes to these scenes and we drive through these communities, and we know this from the data, right, the individuals who are committing these crimes are a drop in the bucket compared to the beautiful, hard-working, lovely Philadelphians that we see on our way to these scenes, right? They are the small, small, small fraction of who we are as Philadelphia. To answer your question, I know the department, the Police Department, is going to be very intentional about their rebranding efforts. They've brought someone on to help translate some of that on their side, but as a city, I think we're already doing some of that work, right? We've talked about this. We've 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. talked about Council's leadership.
I want to be clear, because I gave you credit for doing the work. I'm not questioning the work on this one, right? This is a perception thing. So I don't -- I know firsthand based on meetings, based on budget hearings, based on data the work is being done. I'm not questioning the work, but if you talk to people who are not necessarily in Philadelphia who are thinking about coming here, if you attended our meeting last night, what did they tell us last night, Council President? The elders feel trapped in their neighborhood, right? I heard somebody say we need a program for elders because they feel trapped in their neighborhood. Now, I'm not saying that these elders are literally trapped, but clearly there's a perception out there right now that's not reflective of the work. So I'm more concerned about the perception 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. than the actual work, because I know that you're doing the work. I've seen it firsthand. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, we really appreciate it and agree 100 percent. I mean, I know people from a lot of different places, as do you, and there's this mismatch between perception and reality. One of our very first meetings, I think it was on like day two with the Mayor and our cabinet, our entire cabinet, was with all of the convention and business entities, the chamber, Visit Philly, CVB, all of those folks to essentially attack this problem that you're talking about head on. We know the Mayor hates -- I'm not even going to say that term. That is part of safer, cleaner, and greener. So I think we have heard so much from so many people as we move around the City. We've heard -- we were at another meeting recently with the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Mayor where someone who had been planning to move their business said because of you, Mayor Parker, and your energy, enthusiasm, and positivity and optimism, I decided to keep my business here and reinvest. We've heard people -- I was down in South Philly, a woman say, I was moving to Florida, but now thanks to Mayor Parker -- because we are seeing it. People are seeing it. They're seeing it, touching, feeling it. It's going to take more of that. It's going to take more of our consistent execution of this vision and strategy across all of our departments, Commerce, huge, Alba Martinez. So I think it's going to take all of us, and I am thankful that we have the best cheerleader that anybody could in Mayor Parker, because we got -- we have a lot going on, a lot coming, and as she says, companies coming. So we're enthusiastic about this and closing that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. gap between perception and reality.
That's it, Member, but I do want to concur. I think the energy of our former colleague, right, sets that tone. Coming outside after a homicide with all the key partners, standing up, saying we're not taking it anymore and enough is enough, I think that also plays a role in the psyche of the people that somebody cares, it's a new day. So I do concur those sentiments of our Mayor stepping up to the plate and saying we're going to grab this issue and address it firmly. I want to acknowledge Councilmember Curtis Jones.
Thank you, Mr. President. While these robust hearings were going on, I was listening, multi-tasking in my office. Two quick things. One, since the Kensington Caucus 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. came on board, I've seen progress. The Mayor was out there at Comly like three times, making the center of the universe the Kensington issue ground zero. So for that, as an honorary member of the Kensington Caucus, I am thankful that finally after all of these Administrations we're looking at Kensington as a priority. So I'm thankful for that. But, number two, by way of perception, I was up with a group of law enforcement officers up in -- right? You couldn't go any further and not be in Bucks County than we were, and these are very conservative kind of regional prosecutors, and they were clapping for our Mayor, saying finally there's somebody who can balance criminal justice reform with public safety, that they don't have to be "or," they can be "and." So I want us to -- I know it's 100 days. We like instant grits. We want everything quick, but everything 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. doesn't happen quick and sometimes it takes a while for you to take these inheritances from other Administrations in order to be able to right the ship. So I just want to -- I agree with Member Thomas. We like what you're doing. We want to keep you in the loop of effectiveness, and I just want to say thank you for the perception that it is getting better. Like actually whether you talk to those law enforcement people or people sitting on the porch in my district, there's a sense that -- and I don't want to call her Auntie Cherelle, but she's like the stern aunt that comes in the house, boy, pull your pants up, this is not how we do it here, kind of thing, and it is said with love but firmness, and it's a combination of both. That's all I had to say, Mr. President.
The Chair recognizes Councilmember Rue Landau. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Thank you. I had to leave to speak to a college class. They were very interested in hearing about these budget testimonies. Two questions that are not connected at all. One is about conforming contracts, and I know you talked about it a little bit in the beginning of your time here, but we've just heard complaint after complaint about how long it takes to conform contracts and also to get payments to people, so everyone from a court-appointed counsel to even shelters who testified yesterday. When I spoke to them in February, I took a note that it was taking 54 days to conform a contract. We've heard it from the larger non-profits that are helping to fund the smaller ones and each individual ones as well. Is it all going through you? 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Is it all going through one person or one entity? And how can we fix it? How is that moving? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, I appreciate the question. Most of that actually doesn't come through the Managing Director's Office at all. So most of that is done by other parts of City government. We can certainly have folks in Procurement, Law and other parts of City government circle back with you on some of that. The parts that we do have equities in are sometimes mitigating risks, sometimes devoting additional capacity. My sense from working here for a little while is those agencies I just mentioned are underresourced, like many others. They have vacancies. I see a lot of hard-working people everywhere in City government trying to get this stuff done, and at the same time, we have these challenges and we're not doing what any of us want to do, particularly the folks 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. where this is their job, their 100 percent job. We're not doing as well as we would all like. So I think this is also part of our initiatives to make business operate more smoothly. It's tough to do business with the City if you're not getting paid. The Mayor announced yesterday a lot of great things that are going to be happening for businesses. I think part of it will be navigating through existing City processes, because some of this in my experience, there's a lot of back and forth when you're trying to do this inside and outside City government. So that's not necessarily in our lane to get that done. We are in certain cases I mentioned with our Capital Program Office providing resources from the Managing Director's Office to other agencies like Law to give them additional capacity to work on our projects, your projects, to work on capital projects and other things. So 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we're looking at that, how this work gets done. Rest assured, the Mayor is keenly interested in this. Our colleagues in the Mayor's Office, our big three, are working very hard on this, our CAO. A lot of people understand these challenges. We know we need to fix it. We are a piece of that too, but a relatively small piece.
Okay. I'll figure out how to do the follow-up on that one. And then the second question was about arts and culture. I am upset to see that I believe there's a $2 million cut in the Office of Arts, Culture and the Creative Economy and that there's not going to be any more of the Illuminating the Arts grants. Arts helps with community development, youth engagement, cleaning and greening, public safety. Tell me it's not true, and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. would love to know like why that would happen. The arts is one of the things, especially for our youth on the ground, that is keeping them engaged and making Philadelphia beautiful, and it's an economic engine. DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Arts and Culture is no longer in the Managing Director's Office. We have a new Director for that, and again part of the Mayor's commitment -- because the Mayor absolutely agrees that arts and culture is important. In fact, she believes it's so important that our new Director reports directly to the Mayor. So we can have them circle back to explain exactly what the City's investment in that is and how we as a city are going to continue to do that work, albeit organized in a slightly different way.
Okay. I should ask another question that's not in your department so I can strike out. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. DIRECTOR THIEL: Well, to be clear, Councilmember, I'm not punting. We will make sure that we will get somebody to get you an answer back.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Thomas.
Thank you, Council President. Very briefly, and thank you, Councilmember Landau, for bringing up that issue. I just want to assure that we have the Office of Creative Economy come before this Committee. I'm not sure if with the restructuring they fit the $5 million budget requirement, but if they don't, we would love them to come before the Committee to answer questions that Councilmember Landau just presented as well as other questions related to the arts and culture space. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Thank you, Council President. Thank you, Councilmember Landau.
You're welcome. Before we wrap up, we have our last two to wrap this round up and break. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Jeffery Young and then we have Councilmember Nicholas O'Rourke, and then that's the wrap.
Thank you, Mr. President. My questions are along the lines of special events. We just had WrestleMania here in the City, which I think did wonders for our city, but we have events all the time on the Parkway that -- being the new Councilmember, that was one of the first things that folks kind of bombarded me with, is Parkway 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. events. There's a lot of seniors that live around the Parkway in some senior facilities who need access to just the amenities that the Parkway and the things around the Parkway offer, but during special events, they just cannot get there. And so I was wondering if there is ways where we can temporarily change like street directions or something during these events to allow for access for certain seniors to get in and around the communities, because a lot of one-way streets are there and streets are blocked off, so they have no access. They're kind of landlocked in the facilities and aren't able to move around their communities when there are special events. So could you speak to, I guess, what the City's plan is during special events on the Parkway and how we can, I guess, mitigate those issues that those community members, those seniors have 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that live around the Parkway area? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, appreciate the question and understand the concerns. It's always a balancing act to be able to have these major events, with more coming, while recognizing that the community still needs to be able to get where they're going and be able to have their quality of life. So a lot of that coordination comes out of our Office of Special Events and Jazelle Jones, also our City Representative, they do some of that, our Office of Emergency Management, Streets. Rest assured, there is a very elaborate and detailed planning process for all of these events to try to balance safety, security, and access all the time, and we know that sometimes that can be -- sometimes it is very difficult to do both of those things. I think to -- we actually do some of that. We do sometimes close a 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. street but provide access for residents, sometimes change the way streets run. If there are specifics, we'd be happy to take specific examples of events and buildings and folks that didn't necessarily have access and get that into our planning stream for these upcoming events, some of which -- and I think it's an important point as well. The scale and scope -- we are used to big events. The scale and scope of some of the events that we have coming in 2026 are going to harken back to the Papal visit as maybe the last biggest thing, the DNC that we did in 2016. We are already doing a lot of planning for 2026 working back through today. So we'd be happy to take specific examples from your office so we can do what we can to work that into the planning.
Thank you. Just for the record, I want to note that I used to be Jazelle's intern in the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Managing Director's Office many moons ago, so I'm very familiar with the process with special events. So thank you for that.
Thank you, Mr. Young. And wrapping up, the Chair recognizes Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Council President. Thank you, Councilman Young, for recognizing WrestleMania in the great City of Philadelphia. I just had two quick questions, and I thank Council President for the time. Starting in November of 2022, Philadelphia welcomed its first bus of individuals seeking asylum. Since then, we have received 71 buses sent from Texas and 2,900 people seeking asylum. Proud of Philadelphia's commitment to being and maintaining itself as a welcoming city, which has looked like meeting folks with 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. open arms, helping them find stability in Philly or assisting them in getting to their final destination. In light of the upcoming presidential election, it's important that we get clear about how we will continue to fund and support this critical work. It looks like we spent 5.3 million last year for migrant bussing and to operate the Welcome Center, but it does not look like there are any appropriated funds for this work in FY25. That being said, if the practice of bussing migrants to Philadelphia by some wayward governors in this union reemerges, is the City prepared to receive them with this current budget? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, Council President, I think the short answer to that is, it depends. Obviously we don't control that flow. We don't control the mode or the timing or the number of folks. That is completely 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. somewhere else, and as you might imagine, we don't have a lot of influence on that, the other end of that pipeline. So our team, and it's an amazing team that does that, our Office of Immigrant Affairs, our OEM, a lot of other partners, we are able to handle the flow as it stands right now. If that changes significantly, then the good news is we know how to do this. We did it with Operation Allies Welcome, which is something a lot of folks forget about or believe that was somebody else's job. The reality was Operation Allies Welcome was done largely by the City of Philadelphia and Department of Defense partners and others. So we know how to scale, and we will have to find the resources to do that. We will have to have our colleagues in Finance do that. And there have recently been some federal funding streams that we may be able to tap for some of that work depending on how much 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. it ramps up.
To that, is funding continuing for Pennsylvania Immigrant Unity Family Project, which helps immigrants with legal defense? Do you know about that? DIRECTOR THIEL: I don't. We can certainly come back to you with an answer to that.
Please do. DIRECTOR THIEL: About that specific program.
Thank you very, very much. And I had a question for OEM. We have certainly seen the busy and broad nature of emergency management, especially as natural disasters become more extreme and human-made disasters illuminate the limits of our current systems. I should say I believe you were the one that handled the snow removal in all of that in the City about a week or 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. two into this Administration; is that correct? Commendations to you for that work. OEM has responded to a number of unprecedented crises over the last few years, and federal funds and several grant-funded initiatives have allowed OEM to operate with agility. Can you describe the expected impacts due to the loss of this funding? DIRECTOR THIEL: Councilmember, working backwards, a huge interagency team, those are the ones who actually did the work of the snow removal. So I want to give a shout-out. So many different agencies. I'm not going to list them in the interest of time. All I basically did was say maybe we should have a call. So I appreciate that. I also want to appreciate Tiffany Thurman, our Mayor's Chief of Staff, who really helped with some of that. And I also -- I want to be clear that the last time I was almost killed in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the line of duty was because I was standing too close to a building that used to be in Kensington, and only thanks to some of our real professionals in the Philadelphia Fire Department did I survive. So we pulled back just in time that I was not -- the Fire Commissioner should not be that close to a building. So that was my fault. The Office of Emergency Management, so as a former Director, temporarily three-year Director of OEM, very important agency. They do -- to your point, are often right there when unexpected things happen, whatever those might be, a phone call that we're going to start having folks from Afghanistan showing up in 27 to 30 hours. OEM does have access to funding resources, federal funding resources, regional grants. We are not going to let OEM fail, because they have never let us fail. So we are going to do what needs to be done to ensure that all that critical work 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. continues regardless of where those dollars are coming from. Whether they're coming from the General Fund in one place or another place in the General Fund, we need to maintain the capacity and capability we have in OEM. One of the challenges we have, and we're looking at this holistically across City government, is also retention. There's no better place in the country arguably to learn emergency management than here in Philadelphia. That's a good thing and the other thing at the same time. We've been tested. Those folks have risen to the occasion. Most of them can go write their ticket somewhere else. We all understand that. We know that's true of so many different City employees. So we're looking at compensation, recruitment, and retention out of our CAO and our Office of Human Resources. So we're going to -- we're not -- I am not concerned about losing 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. our capabilities in OEM with what's in the budget. We got it.
Okay. Thank you very much. And thank you, Council President.
Thank you. I want to thank both of you for your testimony. As a body, we look forward to continuing working in partnership with the Administration as we move the City of Philadelphia forward. So thank you. And this hearing stands in recess until 2:00 p.m. - - - (Recess from 1:02 p.m. until 2:10 p.m.) - - -
This hearing will now come to order. Ms. Loughead, will you please call the next witness for public 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. testimony.
Keisha Hudson, Chief Defender. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
We got the Northeast caucus over there taking care of business. I like that. Ms. Hudson, just please state your title for the record and please begin your testimony.
Good afternoon, Council President and City Council. Keisha Hudson, Chief Defender of the Defender Association of Philadelphia. Council President Johnson, members of City Council, again, I'm the Chief Defender of the Defender Association of Philadelphia, and I am pleased today to provide testimony on the Fiscal 2025 Operating Budget for the Defender Association of Philadelphia. We are requesting a total budget increase of 15 million. The 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. details about how we would use these resources is laid out in our comprehensive written testimony, accompanied by a short five-page slide presentation. Today I'm just going to spend a few moments giving you an overview of our budget request and give you the opportunity to ask any questions you have of me about our work. The majority of my requested budget increase will be directed to our continued efforts to interrupt and dismantle what we call the womb-to-prison pipeline, a long-term investment that aligns with the Mayor's vision to make Philadelphia the safest big city in America. As we all know, Philadelphia's child welfare system is particularly aggressive, removing predominantly Black and brown children from their home at or near the highest rate of any big city in the country. We are looking to add to our dependency and youth delinquency 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. practice teams by bringing on two experienced education attorneys and two housing navigators to serve our youth, particularly our older youth, both again in the dependency and delinquency system. We have to ensure that our older youth involved in these systems are able to navigate the challenging processes in both the education and housing systems. According to our partners at the Education Law Center, dependency and justice-involved students need strong advocates because they are among the most educationally underserved of all student populations. They are more likely to change schools, be placed in inappropriate classes, and fail to receive the special education and other services that they need. Our youth in the juvenile justice system are more likely to have unmet special education needs and a history of truancy. As a result of multiple school changes and placement in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. on-ground schools, students who are justice involved often fall through the cracks. Our education lawyers will be critical for representing youth in the dependency system, representing youth in expulsion proceedings, which have become increasingly common. Many children are now receiving permanent expulsion from school and many are mandated to be out of school for an entire school year, undermining their ability to graduate. Education lawyers are also important for the legal representation of youth in special education due process proceedings and will be important to coordinate with placement facilities to ensure that our children coming back from placement are getting the appropriate education services. We are also asking for two housing navigators. The children and youth who remain longest in foster care or whose last placement was a group setting are the least likely to ever 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. become part of a permanent family. This lack of support leads to a greater likelihood of homelessness. The housing navigators will be responsible for helping our youth access county services and community resources. Protecting our older youth clients with educational and housing supports will ease their transition into adulthood, but provide -- and also provide meaningful connections to education, housing, and community that will reduce their chances of being arrested. What do we mean when we say the womb-to-prison pipeline? Twenty-four percent of dependent children experience a juvenile arrest. We represent those children in the Delinquency Practice Unit, which last year we represented 1,463 children. This unit currently has only ten lawyers and five social workers.
We know with our current staffing levels that we are unable to meet the needs of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. our clients, which is why we are asking for resources to increase our staff and social workers. The lion's share of the budget request would provide funding to hire five attorneys and social workers, and 8 so that every youth that we represent in 9 that delinquency practice will have the 10 benefit of an interdisciplinary legal 11 team, which will include an attorney, a 12 social worker, and administrative staff. 13 Our experience with our 14 children entering the delinquency system 15 tells us that they all need the 16 assistance of a social worker, and 17 currently we are not staffed to provide 18 them with one. 19 With this continued investment, 20 we can connect our young people with the 21 support that they need to avoid future 22 entanglement with the delinquency system 23 and avoid future involvement with the 24 adult criminal justice system. This 25 additional staff will also help us build 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. our capacity to provide representation and social services to youth as diversionary opportunities for them to expand. I was pleased last year when I was listening to Commissioner Bethel's testimony that he has expressed a deep commitment to diverting our youth as early as possible, at the point of police contact or using our juvenile access center, and we would very much appreciate coordinating with the City and other stakeholders, including the Police and the DAO, to divert our youth, but we will need increased capacity to represent our youth clients in that realm. It will also lower other caseloads for our attorneys. In every unit at the Defender's Association, currently our attorneys are carrying more than twice the recommended caseload. This increased investment will also support efforts to safely reduce the PJJSC population by creating release 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. plans for children housed there and will better support our young people returning home from placement or detention. As Council is aware, there is overcrowding at the PJJSC. It has presented ongoing challenges for the facility and for our young clients housed there. While stakeholders have been working to reduce the daily detention population, it has consistently remained at or above capacity. Despite efforts to reduce the population, it remains a racial justice crisis. Let me repeat. It is a racial justice crisis that is impacting young Black males, who make up 85 percent of our young people who are housed in the detention center. Every month middle school children routinely populate the JJSC and there are children as young as 11 or 12 in our detention center every month. Recently the majority of the children in detention are those who are 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. waiting resolution of their case. Around 113 children are being held pre-adjudication. They have not yet had a trial or any proceeding in Family Court. Investing in additional attorneys and social workers for our office will also enable us to work to secure release for these pre-adjudication children while they await resolution of their case. The second, I would say, priority of our budget ask has to go towards staff recruitment and retention initiatives. Following the COVID-19 crisis, our organization, like many City agencies, had vacancies to fill. In 2020 and 2021, we lost 98 defenders, and the majority of those defenders were seasoned, experienced trial attorneys. We are also hopeful that we can increase the diversity of our attorneys. We want our attorneys to reflect the client population that we represent. We are still at a time in American history where when we try to recruit Black and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. brown attorneys to our organization, we're often told that our salary, starting at $64,000, is simply not enough for them to pay their student loans and often time for them to support their families.
I have heard from countless prospective candidates that, Ms. Hudson, I am the first person in my family to go to college, I'm the first person in my family to go to law school, I have responsibilities. And so we have a challenge recruiting and retaining Black and brown attorneys. To remain competitive with other City agencies, we want to invest in increasing our starting salary. As of today, our office, public defenders start at $64,000. The District Attorney's Office attorneys start at $70,000. The Law Department solicitors start at $72,000. All three agencies, DAO Krasner, Solicitor Garcia, and myself, have met and discussed the challenge of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. recruitment and retention, and we are aligned in an ask for starting salaries to be increased to $85,000 a year. This makes us competitive with New Jersey where the starting salary is $75,000 a year and at least for public defenders where the starting salary in Baltimore is $85,000 a year. Solicitor Garcia will tell you that that starting salary is far and below what we are seeing in other public defender and solicitor and prosecutor agencies around the country. We simply cannot recruit and retain and sustain our attorney class on any diversity initiatives unless we get an increase in our salary. We do have a unionized attorney staff. They're unionized under the UAW. We have a collective bargaining agreement, and of course any increase to our starting salary means that the salary has to be increased throughout our contract per our contract. In conclusion, investing in the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Defender Association is not just an investment in providing essential constitutionally mandated legal counsel to people that are entangled in our justice system, but it's funding an effective community touch point that supports people and their need to succeed socially, educationally, and economically. Every time this body discusses people in the criminal justice system, every time we discuss bringing people into the criminal justice system, every time we have a new law, every time we have a new initiative, like the Kensington initiative, we also have to address funding, not just for the other stakeholders but for the Defender Association that represents over 70 percent of the people in the City of Philadelphia. Investing in the Defenders also ensures that we retain and recruit the people committed to serving the public 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. good. We do appreciate the support you've given us over the years. Council has been incredibly supportive in our ability to increase staffing and support for our Child Advocacy Unit, but we do need additional resources. And now I will, again, rest on my testimony and our short slide presentation and take any questions that Council might have. Thank you.
Thank you, Keisha. As always, thank you for your hard work and your dedication and taking a comprehensive approach in supporting those who need legal representation. And, you know, obviously I'm a great fan of our great judiciary defense system that we have here in the good old United States of America. So you keep up the good work.
The 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. defense never rests.
A couple questions that I have. Obviously some key things that you hit in terms of making sure that on a staffing level as a city we remain competitive to other cities, which is a no-brainer. I think this particular body has a value on making sure that we're being supportive of the Defender Association, similar to how we support the First Judicial District, similar to how we support our District Attorney's Office. And so we welcome your presentation, and I know my Chairman of Public Safety has been a strong advocate of supporting and increasing your budget, similar to myself. So a lot of things you talked about are very, very refreshing in terms of making sure people have strong representation. A couple questions that I had. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. In terms of the collaboration of the Public Defender's Association, do you work in partnership or is there any synergy with the Department of Human Services, DHS, because you do a lot of work with juveniles, as well as First Judicial District? And I know they also have the Juvenile Unit with the juvenile probation officers in Family Court. What's the role that you and your team play from a synergy standpoint while you're supporting our young people? And the other part of my question is, what is the attorney-to-client ratio for adults as well as juveniles?
So to answer your first question, we represent the children who are coming into both the delinquency and dependency system, and we serve a very, very unique role. On the dependency system, I laud Commissioner Ali's vision of reducing the amount of children that are 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. removed from homes and placed outside of the family setting, in foster care or group placements. She's committed to addressing the racial inequity of that issue and the trauma that our children endure when they are removed from their families. The majority of our children are removed due to poverty and neglect. Two percent of our clients are actually -- that we represent are subject to physical or sexual abuse. The vast majority we are talking about poverty underlying the fact that they are being removed. And so we are aligned with Commissioner Ali. We get funding through the Department of Human Services. For example, in one front, to do our mobile services visits with our clients who are placed throughout the City and state, so we're able to have our social workers and our attorneys visit our clients in different placements, both on dependency 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. and delinquency side. If a client is placed in a foster home in a particular area that's outside the City, our social workers and attorneys can visit and maintain the relationship with that child, and we get funding through DHS to do that. We also, again, on the delinquency side, when our clients are placed as far away throughout the state, we have clients in Texas, get funding through the City, again, to be able to visit our clients in placement. We would love to be able to have more alignment in terms of what happens once the child comes into the system. Again, the Defender Association is not involved pre-removal. We do not see that world, so we don't know what's happening prior to the child being removed. We, of course, will get that information after we take on representation of the child, but we would love to be more coordinated in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. pre-removal, because we do think that that will help in family reunification down the road. We have a lot of work to do in the City of Philadelphia in terms of understanding what drives the removal of children. Substance abuse is of course part of the decision to remove a child, but we also need to focus on the fact that our clients do heal from substance abuse addiction, and efforts should be made to support them maintaining contact with their children and eventually when they become sober and/or overcome their addiction, have a plan to be able to get their children placed back with them. So we do collaborate, I would say, both in the pre-removal and post-removal. Both the parents' lawyers, who are represented by Community Legal Services, the Child Dependency Unit, our unit, the child advocates who represent the children, the DHS social workers that involve the CUAs, all of the other City 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. agencies that come into bear would need to, I think, increase our collaboration with the outlook of what is in the best interest of the child. And in our mind, the best interest of the child is to do what we can to reunify. On the delinquency side, I will quickly say our attorneys are carrying significant caseload. Our attorneys right now in our Juvenile Unit are carrying in excess of 75 to 80 youth clients that they're representing at any one time. Again, as I said --
Per attorney. We represented 1,400 children last year. We have ten attorneys. And I have to also include the fact that the leadership of those units are carrying caseloads themselves, so they are not having the time to manage their staff. They're in court every single day with a full client caseload. So that's why we're asking for 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. an increase in our attorney and social work staff.
And last question before I relax my time for my members, talk about the role that your social workers play in terms of addressing the mental health and trauma that juveniles and adults, clients, may be impacted by just on your basic interacting with them as public defense counsel.
I also say every chance I can get, so I'll say it here again today, that public defenders are the most knowledgeable about what it will take to achieve public safety. And I say that in all seriousness, because we have the beauty of attorney-client privilege and we can have clients who trust us, and they do trust us and will tell us things that they may not have told their parents or loved ones. And I can tell you for every client we represent, I can see through 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. looking at their history what we call missed interventions, whether that's a failure of the family surveillance system, whether that's a failure of community or education, simply by their location, the neighborhood they live in, that that child, if they were involved in the dependency system, I can see why they ended up coming through the both juvenile and adult system. So we know our clients well and we know what solutions work. Right now our social workers, we have 29 social workers for our adult population, and last year we represented 34,000 adults. We represented 4,000 children; we represented 34,000 adults. We have 29 social workers. We are not able to have any substantive touch points with our clients, so we do an incredible job of referring our clients, connecting them to services, but as you have heard from the agencies that have testified, we don't have enough treatment options for our 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. clients, whether that's outpatient or inpatient. The wait list is long. If you sit in a courtroom any day of the week, you will see the PD, the DA, and the judge asking, well, when can we get this client into placement or when can we get this client a bed for treatment. When they do the treatment, time is not long enough to address their need, and when they are released from treatment, there are no social service supports around housing or employment to help them maintain their sobriety or to help them from reverting back to their addiction. So I am asking for an increase in social workers not just for the youth unit, some of the social workers will 21 be, for example, in response to the 22 Kensington plan, because we want to be 23 able to make sure that our clients are 24 getting the services they need. We know 25 that they need longer term treatment and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. we know what happens that leads to their relapse, and, that is, they come back out, there's no housing, there's no 5 continuation of support, and before long, we see them coming back through the system again.
What's your role right now with the Kensington strategy plan?
We have not been a part of the plan. We have been invited to two meetings. Those meetings were at the invitation of DAO Krasner.
Okay. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Mark Squilla.
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Keisha, always for your support and collaboration and attending those meetings with DA Krasner, who we requested you to be there from those office. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
During the previous budget, there was an allocation and money for AMP Court. AMP Court was something that we supported immensely with your help and also DA Krasner. At that time, we were supposed to initiate it two days a week and then eventually go to five days a week. We still haven't been able to do that and there's some challenges why that has been, but during your time as a defender, do you see the use of courts like this to be able to get folks the help that they need so that we would see less multiple offenses or recidivism from these folks, and what other -- we also talked about Community Court that we don't have, right, as an opportunity for diversionary options instead of charges that will be filed and/or incarceration. Do you see both AMP Court and/or Community Court as possible options to help not only reduce the caseloads from a lot of the defenders 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. but also help the people who are the offenders?
Before I answer your question, I do have Sarah Allen here, the First Assistant at the Defender Association of Philadelphia. Sarah Allen is our office expert on both AMP and actually staffed Community Court. I will say overall, yes. You know that our office is ready today without any additional investment to move up AMP from the two days a week to five days a week, but there are additional supports that are needed through that diversion program, and there is a role for Community Courts. But I would like to invite Sarah to talk about really what it looks like now and what we may need to be able to bring more clients through that diversionary program, which again does work.
Thank you. (Witness approached witness 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. table.)
Thank you, Councilman Squilla. So we are currently staffing AMP Court two days a week. We were able to staff that expansion without any additional services. The partnerships that we have created through court such as Community Court and AMP Court are integral to the success of the program. PHMC has been incredibly supportive in continuing to staff it with a full complement of social workers, who are able to make realtime connections in the courtroom and do follow-up. So the Defender remains committed to staffing any problem-solving courts that we can create with the partners. We just have to figure out how to expand in a world where PAD exists. PAD did not exist in the time that we had Community Court. So anything that we can do to be supportive of problem-solving courts I think are a solution to some of 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the problems that are experienced in communities like Kensington.
Well, thank you for that, because I think it's important to hear from -- when you see things of enforcement or you see things that deal with offenders, what is our best way as a city to deal with those offenders in a way that doesn't hurt them long term, but also understand that there are consequences or at least a court process that may be a part of that offender's choice, not his choice particularly, but that there is a consequence at some point so that they know what we can do and give other opportunities. Now, if there's somebody who goes through, and the same thing with AMP and Community Court, you have like 30, 40 offenses of the same person, that's a whole different story, but the goal is that there's always people who make mistakes at times when they're young and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. sometimes not thinking about the consequences. There's other folks who will be habitual offenders, but I think our goal is to weed out those folks and to make sure that people who make the mistakes at a young age or even not at a young age but make a mistake and get caught up in the system, that they don't get tied up or then set back by the system. So any advice that you have even with AMP as this rolls out and is hopefully being used more, but also if PAD somehow circumvents Community Court or is there room for a different process besides PAD?
I think the diversion courts that have been set up are very successful because of how rapidly the intervention occurs. AMP is generally three to five days after arrest, so they don't have time to sort of get lost in the system again. So having the supports in place to have 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. rapid intervention I think is the key. The other thing that I have found to be successful in these problem-solving courts is having consistency in the staffing, both attorneys, social workers, and the judge consistent in the process. Because when you do have that person who falls off the wagon and comes back in, when everyone recognizes them when they walk through the doors and calls them out by name, it makes a huge impact. So strong supports from the judiciary, strong supports from organizations like PHMC, and strong supports from the treatment providers in the community are what make the problem-solving courts successful.
And I agree, and they all need to be funded, right. So that's part of the challenge. I see you're bringing big guns in like Mr. Gillison here to also support your request. But I just want to say thank 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. you, and I do support the salaries, the starting salary increase, because I think it really is important. We as a city always said that we might make a little less money but yet got great benefits, you have pension, but some of those things aren't the same anymore, right? So the salaries are a key to attracting people, but not only attracting them, but you have to be able to retain them. We don't want to get people to come in, we don't want to get them trained and then they go somewhere else, right? So I think we really need to look at that as part of the budget request in making sure that we support that wholeheartedly moving forward. So thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. Quick question. Good afternoon.
Quick question. Can you give us some sense of what the increase you're asking for will do for those ratios for your clients?
So there is going to be a report that will be forthcoming from the University of Pennsylvania. Currently we are staffed at Defender Association, we are staffed at 250 attorneys. That report is going to say that as of today, the Defender Association is understaffed by 100 lawyers to keep up with recommended caseload and workload. So that's for future budget seasons, and I will share that report once it is released. It is a statewide report. It's going through each public defender agencies in the state to talk about their staffing and whether the staffing can accommodate the current caseload level. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. So our ability to increase and our focus on our youth delinquency practice unit, because if we get five more attorneys and we add to that complement, we can bring cases down from the 75 or so that they are now to 50 or so cases, which again sounds like a lot, but every year we have to be able to start to make progress. And so it would be remarkable to have five experienced -- we're not actually -- for the youth practice units, we're not looking for young attorneys right out of law school. We're looking for seasoned attorneys to come in who can handle a heavier caseload than a junior attorney who is still learning the practice.
So real quick, I just want to ask this question. So if we're saying for every five, it will reduce the caseload from 75 to 50, but the need is 100. You're saying we're understaffed by 100?
Across the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. organization for our caseload, the study will say the Defender Association is understaffed by 100 lawyers.
Is there a plan to get to that hundred in the near future?
We'll come back every year, and I always come with a robust ask. I text quite many of you at all hours of the day and night just to remind you of that ask. And so we'll come back each year again with our data to show we need increased resources.
Five for the youth practice. Part of the budget ask will also be our fall class, which is coming on board in September, and that's 21 -- 20 criminal attorneys and six attorneys 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. for the Dependency Unit. So we will make a significant improvement on both the dependency and criminal adult unit with that class of 26.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And hello, Chief. How are you?
Thank you for being here. Your testimony clearly states that you have not been involved in -- and I think you mentioned earlier -- any conversations about the triage and wellness centers and that the anticipated needs of the neighborhood will quickly overwhelm the current referral system, which is alarming to our office, for obvious reasons. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I appreciate you trying to plan ahead, though, and make budget requests to expand your capacity for the new MDO initiatives. Since these requests are not premised on actual conversations that you've had with the MDO's Office, and I'm sure that you're greatly anticipating having those, could you let us know what experience or information you're drawing on to make the 1.1 million request for the Kensington plan, please?
I did have the opportunity to meet with a member of Councilmember Lozada's staff, and there was -- my understanding from that conversation that if we have a triage and wellness center, that if people are going to be arrested, the law calls for arraignment within 12 to 24 hours. And so if someone -- and the question was asked of the MDO this morning. If someone rejects treatment and there is an underlying basis for an arrest and charge, and those sometimes are going to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. be legal questions that can be challenged in court, but if at that moment whether it's noon in the afternoon or 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon, if someone is going to say, I don't want treatment, charge me, send me to State Road, then you need a public defender within to hours for 9 that arraignment and you need a DA and 10 you need a judge. 11 And so my understanding is, if 12 arrest is on the table, then we have to 13 be part of the conversation, because it's 14 going to be our staff that has to respond 15 to whichever location, and that 16 1.1 million would just be to staff one 17 location. If we're talking two or three 18 or four locations to the City, then it's 19 1.1 million times two or three or four. 20 It's for six lawyers. 21 Currently we staff arraignment court 24 22 hours a day, seven days a week, but we 23 would need additional attorneys to staff 24 arraignment. If we are talking just one night a week or we are talking seven 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. nights a week, then that 1.1 million will change, or are we talking one place or five places, then that 1.1 million would change. So it's a safe estimate based on what our understanding is. We don't know how many centers we're talking about. We don't know what our clients -- what options they may have. I would implore this body to really think carefully about State Road being a part of that solution. We have serious concerns there. But what happens to that client who wants to go forward and say, put me in the jail and I'm going to try my case or I was wrongfully arrested or wrongfully searched and want to challenge that case, that is their right.
Thank you. Seeing that decarcerating the Philadelphia Juvenile Justice Services Center is a top line goal for this coming 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. year, interestingly enough, at the same time that a federal monitor is saying that we need to decarcerate our jails, which I feel strongly about myself. Your testimony notes that over 60 percent of the youth inside the Juvenile Justice Center are awaiting trial, 60 percent, and that pre-adjudication youth is a target group for decarceration efforts. I'm curious to know what the key metrics for and steps toward accomplishing that goal are, what's the process for discerning which young people are awaiting trial -- the people that are awaiting trial can go home, how will that effort scale up. Can you speak to that?
So every day we get a report that will show what we call alternative to detention, and those alternatives to detention may say there are 30 monitors available today, house arrest monitors available today. There are various community centers, evening reporting centers where a child who is 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. waiting their adjudication hearing can report to, and of course Juvenile Probation can then monitor and ensure that they're going to make their way to court, and those alternatives to detention on any day can be utilized to drastically reduce the pre-adjudication population. Our youth, for example, last year, percent of our youth clients 12 were arrested for carrying guns. This 13 year it's 14 percent. It's going down, 14 but unfortunately I think the 15 stakeholders, not including the Defender 16 Association but stakeholders including 17 the courts, may think that the safer 18 place for Black boys, particularly at 19 this time, is in detention or for them to 20 be detained and not released to their 21 families or back to their communities or 22 to utilize those alternatives to 23 detention. Similarly, our youth, there are services available. Again, all partners 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. have to come to the table and work to connect our pre-adjudication youth to those services. We have to be willing to surround them with resources and support. If we have a social worker assigned to every single child, we can ensure that that happens, but right now with five social workers, we are focused on the youth that really are truly, truly, truly immeshed in the system and in need of interventions. But every child should have a social worker. I think we would better facilitate that pre-adjudication and alleviate the detention. Really quickly, on State Road we propose that today we could identify 500 people that should not be on State Road and we would be able to close an entire facility and you could reallocate the guards from that facility or the detention center to alleviate the staffing problems. I think currently the Prison System is understaffed by 790 correctional officers, and that would 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. greatly alleviate the staffing crisis, particularly with the independent monitor report and the federal litigation where the City may be held in contempt if staffing is not brought up to standards. We think today we could identify 500 people you could safely send home. And these are not people carrying guns. These are not people committing violence. Bail -- they're pretrial, most of them, and bail is a function of poverty, and they're awaiting court. They have a presumption of innocence, and you could alleviate that staffing crisis if all stakeholders come together, and we look forward to working with Commissioner Resnick.
Well, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. thank you. Thank you for the questioning. Thank you for the response. That's, you know, very good news, in my opinion, that if we were able to do that, we would be able to send some folks home who really shouldn't be there but are there simply for the fact that they cannot afford what the bail is, what the bail has been called for, and in many cases, I think that it's probably not a large sum of money to most. And so I thank you for bringing that to our attention. One of the other things I wanted to ask you, though, is around the Juvenile Justice Center and something that came to my attention not too long ago, I would say maybe the end of last year or a few months before that, but the idea that young folks who are being held awaiting trial are not given any sort of credit, time served for their waiting time, and they could be held for months, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. for years. What is your agency's role in addressing that particular matter?
There's a reason we want to increase services. That is true, that time does not count. The clients who are in Texas asked to go because they knew the quicker they got to out-of-state placement, at least the time would count. And by law, the JJSC under the Juvenile Act, kids have to be able to get services during placement, and the JJSC is not equipped to be able to provide those services. I think if we invested some funding to ensure that both education services and other therapeutic services are brought into play at the JJSC, then we can address that issue through litigation, through the courts, bring it up to the upper courts to say the JJSC actually is a facility that offers treatment and rehabilitation services while the children are perhaps waiting for longer placement. But as it stands 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. right now, our children are not getting educated. They're being held for sometimes up to a year, and none of that counts. The other reason we're asking for an education lawyer is what happens when they either get out of the JJSC with a pre-adjudication and they have 30 or 60 or 90 days of displaced education, what happens when they try to go back to a school district. In Philadelphia, it's not pretty what happens to those youth. They fall through the cracks, they become truant, and then if they're of age, they stop going.
And what happens to our children from longer term placements with their education. But right now our children are sitting, the ones who -- and we represent all the children, including on any given day six to nine children who are just 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. there on dependency -- for dependency reasons. But the children that we represent on a variety of charges, right, are not getting education or any services at the moment.
Well, you know, I can only say that it's outrageous and the work that you all are doing is so very important. I'm happy to fully support your budget request, and I just think that we just can't keep saying that we want change, we want things to be better, we want our young people to have opportunities and not to address this in any way, shape or form, which is what's been happening for a very long time.
Absolutely. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Landau.
I want to start by echoing the words of our Madam Chair right now, that the work of the Defender Association is so essential to what we're doing in Philadelphia. And what I love, what I've been hearing from you for the years I've known you and through now is how much you and your team are trying to break the cycles and really make sure that if we can intervene now -- look, the folks who come to you have some interaction with the criminal justice system, right? And by the time they get to you, that's already happening, but if you do the right interventions now, that you can break these cycles. So as a former legal services lawyer, I fully applaud the request for the social workers. I know what it's like where you fix a legal problem and it's a Band-Aid on one piece of a larger puzzle often that is broken, and the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. social workers are the saving grace that can help with the supports and have the time and the energy to put towards the whole. So I love this. I had a couple of quick questions for you about -- we already talked about the salaries. We got the social workers. Can you talk a little bit more about the full role of the social workers in the support of the attorneys and how -- I like this concept -- let me back up for a second. You're trying to decrease caseloads for the attorneys. That is essential. You can't keep somebody in this ring for so long, because they'll burn out. But how do you also -- what's the role of the social workers to support them and also making sure the social workers don't burn out?
So right now for both other youth and adult clients, it's a referral model that comes from the attorneys, and there's a really 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. unpleasant word that we use in public defense called triage. And when you have 75 or 85 clients, human beings that you're representing, you as the attorney, you're making the determination of which client to prioritize for that referral, and you're going to go with the client who may be presenting active psychological and psychiatric symptoms or the client who is deeply, deeply substance addicted, but we're not going to be referring and we can't and our social workers cannot handle the volume of every client who has that problem. Right now we cannot prioritize clients who are homeless for helping them find housing services. We do not prioritize clients for helping them find a job. We just -- we do triage. It's like an emergency room where we have to decide who to prioritize as we're preparing for court in a day or two days or in a week, and sometimes our attorneys get their cases the day before depending 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. on where our clients are in the system. At most, maybe two weeks before for the more serious cases. So we're talking our attorneys who are incredible doing a lot of work in a very short amount of time and making a very, very quick call, well, this is a client I'm going to refer. In terms of for our social workers, they're amazing. They come to our office. The starting salary for a social worker is $54,000. These are social workers often with MSWs. They are a portion of our population that tells us, I'm not going to be here long because this is not sustainable. And so we do what we can to also support them in terms of salaries and benefits, but also a lot of training, a lot of support. We just had Social Work Month in March where, again, we want to emphasize to them that we're invested in their well-being and supporting them in the work. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I have to mention our social workers in the Child Advocacy Unit who go to where our clients are at. These are not pretty places in the City of Philadelphia, but they go to our clients' homes. They build those relationships. They meet our clients where they're at, and sometimes it's early in the morning and sometimes it's late at night, but we ensure, again, that to the extent -- and they do it alone, because we're not staffed for people to go in pairs. So to the extent that we can, we support them in that work. But it is really, really important work, and we are dedicated to supporting the social workers on our team.
And just one thing that you haven't said that I know, so I want to say it out loud, is that when you have a caseload that is that high on both the attorney and social worker level, they're doing their prep work at night and early in the morning. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. It is impossible to do it during the day. So it's many, many hours.
Where are you recruiting your new attorneys from? I know that you've been working very hard on increasing the diversity of your attorney staff. Where are you doing that?
We recruit primarily from the area law schools. The majority of our clients come through the clinical programs that we have at Villanova, Temple, Penn, and Drexel, and we also recruit from Rutgers. In order for us to really build the diversity, we have started a partnership with Howard. And so we've had several attorneys in the last two classes come from Howard University, as well as other HBCUs around the country. Mr. Gillison sitting here has done incredible work, along with several other members of our team, Melissa 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Singleton to name one, who goes out far often into the HBCUs around the country to try to build those relationships. I will say again, you know, it's helpful to be able to entice someone to come to Philadelphia, particularly a diverse candidate, if we can offer a salary that is competitive with other public defender agencies. As we all know, I'm a broken record with this. We do not get the City pension. And so our ability to be able to sell "come to Philly," you know, we have to be able to have a comparable starting salary to other agencies.
And one last quick question if she's not going to cut me off is, do I remember correctly too that you have to pay all your own bills?
We pay -- the things that we pay for include rent and real estate taxes. We also pay for all of our IT infrastructure. And just by 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. comparison, the Office of Information and Technology spends about $4,200 per City employee. We do not get any support from OIT. So every single piece of paper, paper clip, stapler, laptop, all of that is paid out of our base budget. And so in those two areas, rent, technology and of course the pension, are things that we are not getting funding from the City to support.
Thank you, Commissioner Landau. City Council Jones might fight you for that.
Thank you, Councilwoman. A couple of questions really quickly, particularly around young folks. As you talked a moment ago about the idea 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of them being sort of in this pipeline and what happens, they're sitting, they're waiting, and they may be aged out and then next thing you know they're up at SCI Phoenix because they've gone through the process and then they're sent to SCI Phoenix. One of the proposals I think from the Commonwealth is to build a juvenile facility at SCI Phoenix, which I find incredibly disturbing, because it sort of gives -- it sends a few messages, this is where you're going to be anyway, this is where you're going in the future, this is your future. And so I'm just wondering -- I know it's not directly something that you all have advocated against, but I'm just wondering, I would like to hear your thoughts on that matter.
So we do represent youth, a significant amount of youth, who are what we call direct file juveniles. They are charged as adults, and we have 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to go through a process called decertification where they may be decertified back to Family Court. And these are the children that you read about in the news. I would submit here that every one of our child clients is worthy of an investment and a trauma-informed investment, but right now we would need to make a significant investment in the facilities that are in Philadelphia or as close to Philadelphia as possible. The facilities throughout PA will not say it directly, but they don't want Philadelphia children and they don't want Philadelphia children because they're Black. And so -- and they're staffed by almost predominantly all white staff members. So the experience of our youth there, which is why so many of these placements were closed, was deplorable, and many members of this body know about that treatment.
So we need to make the investment to build facilities and places where my client who is convicted of a car jacking or my client who is convicted of a gun offense is going to be placed, but can we emphasize placing them closer to home with people who perhaps look like them and/or are trained to be able to address their needs. And right now I do agree that the facility on State Road is, I think, from a trauma perspective, is not optimal, but it's closer than Texas for that population.
We can at least see them more often and their families can see them more often, but it's not the solution that we would advocate for.
Got you. Got you. No City pension and no OIT support.
What does 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. this investment do to address either of those issues, if at all?
So the last of the slide presentation I believe are our infrastructure ask. This budget cycle is $685,000, and that would include making sure everyone has a laptop and a desktop and subscription to evidence.com, which is $185,000. That's the way discovery come to us. And so that would be remarkable to get that support from OIT. So that line item ask is 685,000 of the million. 15
Your role is enshrined in our constitution. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
That's right. So given that, why is there a disparity between the DAO's Office and you?
There is -- there's an expert at NYU who has done a study that shows that the United States currently is investing $6 billion in public defense agencies, but the actual investment needs to be billion. So we 14 are not alone when you look at public 15 defender offices throughout the state and 16 throughout the country. We are typically 17 underfunded and underresourced and are 18 out of parity with the District 19 Attorney's Office. And I will dare say 20 it's because of who we represent. 21 This body has been bold and very supportive of the Defender's Association of the clients that we represent and has been supportive of our budget asks, but we do still at the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Defender Association, we have some way to go, and that is no different from every other public defense agency in this nation.
So I think Philadelphia should take the lead and ensure that you don't have to keep begging every --
-- year. But I also wanted to ask the MacArthur grant funding was zeroed out for positions in the Defender's Office but maintained in the City in other programs. What is that about? Did we read this right, that there was a MacArthur grant that was funding some positions in your office?
Yes. And I'm actually going to turn that over to Sarah Allen, who was integral in getting and in the working group for the MacArthur grant. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Yeah. We still have, I believe -- I believe we still have four positions that are MacArthur grant funded, our bail advocate program, which I believe the study showed was the only MacArthur initiative that reduced racial disparities. We have continued to use MacArthur funds to staff those positions.
Okay. And when you speak about social workers, do you also have room for behavioral therapists or mental health care in a more focused manner than just social workers in your budget?
We do have a budget for if we want to bring on experts, but that, again, given the budget are for cases where we may need to have our client evaluated, for example, by a psychologist or a neuropsychologist and to run a full battery of neuropsychological testing because we 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. want to show that they are incompetent and they cannot proceed to trial. So we prioritize experts. We don't have anyone inhouse, but we prioritize retaining experts on those types of cases where we know that our client either isn't competent or is so severely mentally ill they will never retain competency and then they may be housed at State Road or they may be housed at Norristown or more likely one of our state facilities.
Do you have a relationship with DBH in terms of providing that without sort of an in-house kind of support? Even if somebody -- it's more of a behavioral therapy in order to level out the cortisol levels in your clients in order for them to make better choices and be much more present in their own defense, and it is very hard to do that when you are under severe stress and you're traumatized. And so I'm thinking of how are DBH, which has a very big budget 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. reimbursed by the federal government and because you're enshrined in our constitution, I believe it's the federal government's duty to make sure you get sufficient support in order for competent defense for anybody in this justice system. So I don't know if you have explored that. So that's one. And two is sort of the diversionary part of your work, which is sort of pretrial, what is your engagement there? What does that look like?
So we have social workers with their master's, social workers who have done clinical hours. Again, the volume of our work is too much for them to be, you know, at this moment assigned to a particular client and/or to have any kind of treatment modality or treatment relationship with that client. That's not -- I think that that would be a utopia for any public defender office, and right now we are so far beyond or below that kind of mechanism or that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. design. So we have experienced social workers who work with clients who do crisis intervention. They're trained in crisis intervention. And if you go into any mental health courtroom, we have mental health courts at the CJC, and you will see our clients and how they present and you'll watch a public defender, social worker, and our lawyers be able to intervene with our clients and be able to kind of help them and advocate for them in that moment. But right now ensuring that we're working with the courts and the DAO and other stakeholders to make sure they're getting treatments or they're getting their medication, it's appropriate medication, that they're getting treated for that underlying mental illness is something that, again, our social workers and our attorneys do, but as I mentioned before, the need is great for that population as well.
So in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. other words, your intervention, diversionary intervention, is really after they've already been arrested?
On diversion, we are, again -- if someone who has been arrested, that's when we come in. We don't see the pretrial world.
And the lack of pension, is that a decision that was made by whom?
I don't know, but I will tell you and others on Council will tell you that it has been explored and we have talked to the Managing Director's Office in the past, not the current, and the Law Department, and it's an issue that I don't know that we are going to be able to be part of the City's 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. pension plan, although we would love to be.
It's deeply unfair. Anyway, thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your testimony.
Thank you, Council Lady. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.
First of all, I owe you and your organization, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. your team a thank you. " And until you kind of showed that correlation, it wasn't clear as it is today. Secondly, anything I'm about to say that is wrong, it is Everett Gillison's fault, because he showed me -- I wanted nothing to do with public safety until he kind of trail-blazed his way through CJAB and through the Realtime Crime Center and other things. So what I'm about to say does not reflect the opinions of management, but I was always told that if 17 people agree on everything, 16 of them probably aren't necessary. So I want to gently push back 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. on behalf of Samere Jones of Simpson Street, on behalf of the young man that was years old that was found in a 5 dumpster dead right outside of my 6 district. It was in Jamie Gauthier's 7 district actually. That realizes that 8 some of our shooters are getting younger. 9 A lot of our victims are getting younger, 10 and we have to kind of delineate between 11 a kid that's having a bad day and a bad 12 kid, and we have to kind of -- I've had people come in my office and literally say to me, if you don't get my son arrested, he's going to kill somebody or get killed, and he needs to sit down a minute to collect himself. Studies show that sometimes, you know, the brain isn't fully developed until they're 24, and you were nice enough in our pre-meetings when I raised the stupid remedy, you were kind enough to say, well, maybe you might want to -- you said it diplomatically, so I thank you for that. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. But I'm speaking up for a growing course of parents that are frustrated with what they perceive to be, because crime has gone down, but a sense of juvenile kind of aggression and lawlessness that is occurring. I think if you're going to -- I agree with my colleague that said we need to increase the number of social workers. I'll double down on that and to be able to intervene earlier, because the kid that gets kicked out of class, the kid that gets picked up for curfew, the kid that winds up in truancy, that's the kid who is raising their hands saying, at some point if I don't get some help, I'm going to be a problem. So we agree on that aspect of it. Where I draw the line is for the kid that picks up that gun and for the kid that commits car jacking or the kid -- we need to intervene in a firm parenting way that, look, we're going to sit you down for a few and hopefully while you're in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the facility they're building up next to SCI Phoenix -- my colleague and I went up and toured the facility -- that they are getting treatment, that they're getting programs that change them for the better and not being put in gladiator school but being put in a school that helps them see the world differently. And so some of my best friends -- the only person in here that probably has as much street cred is Jimmy Harrity. His graffiti is still up in some neighborhoods that I represent, but some of the guys that went through your system came out to be responsible adults. When we closed Glen Mills, some of those young men that came through that actually wound up being the bus drivers, the civil service workers that are now contributing members of society. So although I support my colleagues that are -- Council has gotten a little more, I want to say, to the left, there you go, I was trying to be -4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. but everybody ain't to the left here. And I don't consider myself hard core even though I get it from you, but I want that balance so that our young people understand there are consequences to your actions, because left unto their own devices, I'm going to too many genazes (ph), too many funerals. And, you know, once a kid gets himself together, yeah, that's good, but that other kid, that other young person, that's forever.
So I just wanted to say for the record -- don't hate me, colleagues, but there is a differing opinion on how we should approach our young people. Parent accountability also is one. And so I said that. You nodded in the appropriate places. You didn't --
Really, really quick response. I would challenge the description. I don't believe that there are bad kids. I have been a public defender for 22 years. I did that penalty work for ten of those years. We 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. do something called mitigation history where we go back three generations in the death penalty world, and you will see the strains and the impact of drug abuse, which is a genetic and goes through the family for generations. There are always two or three generations back of drug abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, all those. We put a red dot in three generations looking back to why our client is now on death row, and you see those trends three generations back. In public defense, we don't have the luxury of every client saying, well, let's look at your history, but I would want to sit down in a room with those parents, I would want to pull out the adverse childhood experiences form. It's a ten-question form, say mom and dad, fill out the ACEs score. I personally am a seven on the ACEs score, but it's out of ten. And the higher your ACEs score, the more you are likely to be entangled not just in the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. criminal justice system but have poorer health outcomes. And the majority of my clients on death row, I represented the 30 clients, had an eight or above, eight out of ten on that adverse childhood experiences. But not just them; mom, dad, grandmother, great-grandmother did way before they came to us. So when we're talking about interventions, I would say, mom, I know you want your child out of the house, but let's really talk about what's going on with you and what's going on with who is in the home with the child and what can we offer to support and help you get the support you need to better be able to parent. A lot of the family members for our youth particularly were never parented, never given any sort of love or affection, and it was not because their parents couldn't. Their parents didn't know how, because they themselves did not get that example or model of love and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. affection and they can't parent their children, and that's why we have the children we have. But none of them are bad. They're all wonderful, beautiful children. I believe that, and I believe they're all saveable, and with proper interventions, they are all saveable.
And that's why I'm so glad you're the Defender. There's a certain wiring that comes with that, but I today rise to speak on behalf of the victims' parents. They deserve a voice too. They deserve safety. When I was coming up under -- and I'm going to end on this, Madam Chair -- that if you grew up in Wynnefield -- oh, Mr. President. When you grow up in Wynnefield, there was a family, a family, and I won't name their names, but anybody who grew up in Wynnefield knows the family I speak, that I -- they were -- I don't know if 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. you believe in genetics or environment.
Oh, I do. Genetics is part of it, right? Bipolar disorder, for example, if you have bipolar and you look through the mother's genes, it comes down through the mom generations.
So this family was famous or infamous, right, so much so that when I told my daughter when she started dating, if you bring one of them home, it's a problem. And all I'm saying is that I just want to make sure that as we move more to the left of our thinking and restorative justice, I was all a part of that, that we don't forget the victims of the people that can't be redeemed by this endeavor. They just lost a kid. And so it's on the record. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you. I just think, you know, it 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. takes a comprehensive approach. I'm empathetic to what Councilman Jones -- I understand where he's speaking from, right? Everybody has their own different life's experience. I know his life experience. I know my life experience. In terms of like we both really grew up in the mix of an environment, right, where there could be a variety of different factors of why people take different paths, but being mindful of -- we want to support people comprehensively and also be mindful that -- like my experience is similar. I got friends. One of my guys from St. Gabe's, all-star at Maryland for playing Maryland Eastern Shore, right, and I know we went to the left and said, well, let's close down all these facilities for juveniles, right, because the data shows being not in the house -- this is what they told me in a meeting I had. The data shows not being in a home isn't going to have an impact on if that person rehabilitates, if I'm 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. saying it correctly. However, a lot of times we're asking young people to rehabilitate in an environment, right, where they're surrounded by nothing but death and destruction. And as professionals, right, and most of us probably middle class, right, don't even live in these -- no. I'm just saying just in general, right? So you're asking a person that's living around death and destruction to rehabilitate themselves in an environment that's filled with death and destruction. And peer pressure is real, right? You turn on social media and day in and day out, always see -- if you go on Philly ScoopHall. I'm an elected official. I stay on Philly ScoopHall and I'll see every homicide, every shooting that takes place in the City of Philadelphia. And I just browse through it, right? And our young people are feeding into this every single day, right? And so now it comes from an era 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. where I grew up, it was about getting girls and you had, you know, the guys doing the drugs, but now it's about just guns. They ain't even try to go to party. I don't think they have an after midnight. I don't think they have spaces for them to enjoy themselves. However, with all that being said, right --
Just for the record, Mr. President, I support your budget. We all good.
You got them more money last time in the mid-year transfer.
I was just thinking about the approach, but 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. I'm with comprehensive. Know my story. I'm not ashamed to say my judge name was Reynolds, right? Probation, right? First time gun charge. What do you want to do with your life? Didn't have to -- I had the experience going down Youth Study Center in the van in the evening, right? I know with the cold cheese sandwich and the tea, that experience, right? However, though, however, I would not be the first African American to represent the Second Councilmanic District, I would not be a former State Representative, I would not be a member of City Council as the Council President, I would not be a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania, I will not be a graduate of Mansfield University had I not seen other individuals invest in me. And that's coming from a household that had challenges, but there were other people who saw some things in me that I didn't necessarily see and say, hey, you 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. know what, young man, you can do a little better. You can make better decisions with your life. And so I do understand when you're saying, well, when that mom say come and take my child, well, hold up, let's see what's going on inside the household, why are they acting this way, who are they hanging around. And so I do understand taking that comprehensive approach. And also we deal with a lot of mothers, though. When I look that mom in the face, you not having Christmas or celebrating Ramadan with your son or your daughter and have to look them in the eyeballs and try to figure out how to get them some level of consoling. But that's why we do the hard work. That's why we all wrap our arms around trying to address this issue. I'm going to release my time, because I talked a little bit, but it's a very, very critically important issue. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. It's about saving our young people and making sure that they have an opportunity, such as myself and Curtis Jones, similar background, and Jim. We're not like choir boys growing up, but through the grace of God, we had a chance to like do some things differently on the right path. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Jim Harrity.
You know, I agree. I too had a lot of issues when I was a young man and got a lot of different chances from different people, the court system, public defender. So I get it, you know, but I also get what Councilman Jones was trying to say, that the harsh reality is that things happen and kids in neighborhoods like mine, they 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. grow up pretty quick. While their age may say that they're a kid, their actions do not. But that being said, why are you asking for a housing navigator, so that I can just get my head around that? And what would they do, and why is your office the place to house them? And then just so we can just get right through, the other question is how have you been working with the community and can you talk about some of the stuff you've been doing in that aspect?
So we're asking for a housing navigator to primarily work with our Dependency Unit, because our older youth who age out of dependency, whether they age out at 18 or 21, the planning for them to transition out of DHS I believe begins 30 days before they have aged out of the system. That planning, that transitional planning, begins in 30 days. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. So what we've started to see is that our dependent youth coming through that system once they age out unfortunately become part of the homeless population, because we need so much longer than 30 days to find someone a rental property. You have to understand, our clients are not as savvy as we may think they should be in terms of navigating a lease, what's in a lease agreement, what their rights are, accessing public benefits or public housing. Our clients do not have the capability to do that, so --
Both navigators will be for our youth practice units to focus on older youth that we represent in those systems to make sure they have housing resources and they have some place to live when they're coming out of both the dependency and delinquency system. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
No. They can be peer in terms of people who have been through the sytem, but it really is to navigate the bureaucracy and to help them understand how to connect to housing resources and get placed into stable housing and access public housing or stabile rental and/or other affordable housing opportunities.
Okay. So these would be people that are in the system, the actual justice system?
They could be. They could be. And we're very, very proud that we are a major employer of people who have been through both the dependency and the youth and adult system, that we are an employer. We believe in that second chance or for many people we would term it first chance to get them employed in our organization, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. and we do that. So they can be people who know the system already, and actually that would be preferable if they already know how to navigate or they themselves have navigated that system and are a success story for how to work with our clients to get access to those systems.
Okay. And then how have you been working in the community and what can you tell us about your community partners?
Yes. We're very proud to be part of a reentry coalition that meets every other month. It is several dozen community agencies that come to our office. They send representatives to our office to talk about ways that we can help our youth and adults, primarily women. We're seeing a very high population of women, many of them mothers, who need not just housing but also access to childcare resources and training and employment opportunities. And so we partner with 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. groups like Why Not Prosper. We partner with Mothers in Charge. We have partnerships with several organizations, again, where we can say we have clients who need a house and/or a job and/or a mom who needs childcare while she's going through trying to find employment. And so we partner with those organizations. Last year, we did nearly 12,000 expungements. And so we run expungement clinics throughout the year where we work with clients to get their records expunged so that they can get opportunities to those employment and housing, quite frankly.
That's good. Just for the record, I believe in second chances. I believe that when a child first gets into the system, we should do everything that is possible in our power in order to try to guide that child to another path, but sometimes we're going to have to come to the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. realization that some can't be saved.
And, again, I beg to disagree. I think they can be with the robust investments. We have to be able to be bold, and this body has been, to make those investments. And I do say that I have never had an older client who once they got to 35 and 40 and 45 and 50, that was the same person who did that crime at or or 25. I have zero 12 clients, because we mature, we have 13 remorse, we have regret, we've learned. 14 Our clients have had time to reflect. 15 They've had time to reach out sometimes 16 through victim advocacy work to apologize 17 through restorative justice. 18
Well, 19 that's because they went through the 20 system. 21
And they grew up because of the experiences they had that made them grow up in that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. system. I'm not saying that, you know, there's -- all I'm saying is there are people that when they pick up a gun and they shoot three, four people, that's no 7 longer a kid. They made an adult decision, and they're going to have to deal with that. Now, they go, they do their time, they come out, that's all -- I'm all for that, helping them once they get to their thing, but the bottom line is if somebody is killing somebody else, they need to be punished for that crime.
I could respond, but I think I've responded enough. I think I've said enough. Thank you, Councilmember. Thank you, Councilmember, and thanks for your support.
So I think the spirit is, at least from my perspective, and I see it both ways, you know, we want to err on the side of trying to save as many as possible. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Right? Because we also recognize, particularly in Black neighborhoods --
-- and brown -- let me finish. There's been a lot of disinvestment for years, and as a result, a lot of children make poor decisions. And then I want to also break down this misnomer that every kid that pulls a trigger comes from a bad family. It's not true. I know we had a different war in South Philadelphia. Some of these kids was in college. They were college kids. Get the best they can from their parents, but decided to get caught up in the street life. We could have this whole conversation at another time, but Member Harrity, anything else you have to say before I wrap up with Councilmember 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. O'Rourke?
Thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate that support. Thank you.
I will say one aspect. I think a lot of kids, though, when they engage in these acts, you should be held accountable, but I don't think that all of them that engage in the acts -- and I've seen this from talking to them sometimes after the fact. It shouldn't be after the fact, but the remorse and really recognizing what you have done. And then we have a big drug issue amongst the youth. Most of them pull the trigger on wet, which is embalming fluid. Most of them pull the trigger on Percs and Xanies, and then as soon as they get down the homicide room, they crying and they tell them. They try and cop a deal, because what they just 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. did, they kind of realized they were acting off emotions, which is a whole other conversation. But we continue to look forward working with you. I'm going to turn it over to Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Council President. And excuse my ignorance. Law is not here to testify today, correct?
Got you. Understood. I'll get to them later then. I just had the one. First of all, I didn't say this earlier. Sixty years of Wawa. So free coffee, I think folks know, today, as of today. I also heard through a text 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. message from one of my folks that Ben & Jerry's is giving out free cones, for those that are interested. I'm saying all this to say happy 90 years --
Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember. Thank you. - - - (Applause.) - - -
I am curious about the different support staff that the Defenders actually employs. Can you tell us more about the peer advocates and the CAU specifically and how are you trying to bring this practice to other youth units? And if there's time, I'd love to know about the Partners for Justice team.
Yes. And it was with support of our budget allocation 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. last year and with support of DHS that we were able to bring on four peer advocates. They started three weeks ago. These are all older -- well, younger adults who have all been through the dependency system. So we think that for the Dependency Unit bolstering our interdisciplinary model where it's a lawyer, a social worker, and now a peer advocate to focus on the older youth in their representation will achieve better outcomes, and that's a model that other dependency units across the country have and it's a model that works remarkably well. So it's four peer mentors or peer advocates, and we are excited that they're finally on board, and we want to thank Council and DHS for supporting that endeavor. And your second question, Partners for Justice?
Yeah, Partners for Justice. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Again, it was through City Council's support last budget cycle. We are -- we have three client advocates through Partners for Justice. Partners for Justice is a national organization that works with defender organizations and places client advocates in those organizations, and what those client advocates do and what the data has already showed for us and shows nationally with their partnerships is that if you pair a client advocate or a social worker doing case management with a client and they are with that client for the entirety of their justice system involvement, that their outcomes are much better and recidivism rates are lower. So our client advocates do everything from let me try to find you housing to let me get you furniture because you have no money for furniture, let me help you make sure you have access to transportation to get to your job 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. interviews, let's work on writing your resume, this is how you do a job interview. They literally are just with our clients at every step of the way, and the outcomes are much different for clients at the end of it. So the model we're trying to have with our social workers is to do more like that where they're able to be paired with, starting with youth, to do all the things that we think our clients will need to thrive in society.
Well, thank you very much for that. Again, thank you for the work that you all do.
It's crucial to bringing about justice in our city, and so grateful for, again, your advocacy and the work that you do at the Defender's Association.
This is the one who asked about -- he wanted to make sure Defender's Association was okay. Go ahead, sir.
Could you, I guess, just talk to us a little bit about the demographics of the attorneys that are at the office and particularly the class that you say is 21 attorneys coming in in the fall class. 22 Can you tell us the demographics of that 23 class and the overall makeup of the 24 office? 25
Yes. And I'm 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. proud to say that since I've been Chief Defender and since we have been much more intentional and aggressive, again with Mr. Gillison's help, in trying to recruit a diverse staff, for our fall class of 2023 we set a goal of 50 percent diversity. We wanted at least 50 percent of the attorneys in the fall of 2023 10 to be Black and brown attorneys. We set 11 a goal of 70 percent for this incoming 12 class in the fall of 2024, and we have 13 reached that goal. So 70 percent of the 14 20 attorneys -- actually, 70 percent of 15 the 26 attorneys for both criminal and 16 our dependency side are attorneys of 17 color. 18 And, again, we're trying to do 19 everything that we can to increase our 20 recruitment, but on the other hand, we need to retain the staff, the diverse staff, that we are bringing in. So we are meeting the goals that we are setting. It's now making sure we can keep them. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
So I've been getting mixed, I guess, information from folks who were prior public defenders than the information that we've been -- that you and I have talked about. So can you tell us what are some of the challenges with the retention, particularly with the attorneys of color?
I think part of the challenges regarding retention have to do with salary. I think they also have to do -- when you ask -- and this is something I did when I started. I pulled all the exit interviews for every diverse public defender who left in the previous five years, and I read all of them to see why were they leaving, and the predominant -- the three reasons why people were leaving had to do with salary, it had to do with benefits, it had to do with lack of kind of the ability to advance in terms of if they wanted to be in a supervisory role or a managerial role, and it was regarding 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. whether or not they felt that there was enough priority and support on DEI and equity issues in the organization. And so prioritizing putting -- what I've done in my time here is to put in a distinct role for diversity, equity and inclusion and to put people in that role to not only take part in the diversity recruitment, but also to ensure that our predominantly white attorney staff is working with and collaborating with and understanding and are culturally competent with our client population but also with their colleagues.
Do you provide any cultural training for any new attorneys that are coming on board at the Defender Association?
We do. Again, since I've been Chief Defender, we make sure that that is part of the incoming fall class's training. We are very proud of our training program. We start off with a five-week training before our 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. attorneys go into courtrooms, and diversity, equity and inclusion is part of that five-week training. We also, as I said before, have someone in that role, but we also -- right now we're doing a mandatory LGBTQ training for all staff. That's mandatory, and that's something we've been doing every year, as well as ensuring, again, that our attorneys of all races and backgrounds understand the issues and the Philadelphia issues. One thing we have changed is for attorneys who have not studied in Philadelphia, understand Philadelphia. So what does the MOVE bombing mean and some of the areas where our clients are coming from and they live -- and the impact of redlining, for example, that our attorneys who are not from Philadelphia understand Philadelphia and that when our clients say West Philly or South Philly or North Philly, what are you talking about and what does that have 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to do with who that client is that you're looking at and that you're representing. So we ensure that, again, our attorneys are trained on -- all our staff are trained on those issues.
I have one more question, Mr. President, if you don't mind. Thank you, sir. Can you talk to us about the issue that pertains -- that your office experiences when there is conflict counsel appointed for some of the -- particularly the juvenile offenders and talk about the experiences of the, I guess, the time that it takes for these cases to play itself out through the court system when there is a court-appointed attorney going through that process?
I was very pleased to hear Councilmember Landau ask about court-appointed attorneys today. They play a very critical role. We represent 70 percent of the people who come through 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the criminal justice system, and we cannot represent everyone, again, because of resources, but there are conflicts, and of course there are people who can hire and can afford to hire private counsel. But the role of court-appointed counsel is very important, and we also have to understand that poor people are the ones who get court-appointed counsel. It is by virtue of a conflict that they don't get the Defender's Association. But what happens with court-appointed counsel, there was a recent article today regarding the fact that it takes sometimes months for them to get paid. In that article, an investigator who I have worked with in the past, Diane Cowan, who is incredible, has said that she will no longer take court-appointment cases as an investigator. And court-appointed counsel have to submit vouchers to the courts, to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the City to be able to have investigation, any experts, all the resources that they will need to access in their representation. Representing kids is a specialized practice. It is a unique practice. You need the training, you need the expertise. We have the best Children and Youth Justice Unit in our office and the best Juvenile Special Defense Unit in our office. Though small, they are really excellent at what they do. We also have the training and expertise to know what we need to do in and outside of the courtroom to better ensure that our clients are not being detained as long, and if they're going to be placed, they're not going to be out in placements as long. We really are experts. And so you will see that we are engaging with our clients. We have the ability to. We have more resources than 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. sometimes court-appointed counsel does, even though we need more, and that is why you may see that the length of stay looks different for Defender-represented clients than court-appointed clients. It comes down to, again, the touch points, that we represent the vast majority of the children at the JJSC. The courts know us, the judges see us every day, and you may not have that level of expertise from court-appointed counsel representing children.
Thank you. Any other questions from members of Council for this panel? (No response.)
Hearing none, at this time, I want to thank you for, first and foremost, your 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. dedication, your hard work that you have been doing. Since you took on this position, you have been moving this office forward, and I'll just wrap up, you have taken the out-of-the-box approach, right, assigning housing counselors, assigning education attorneys, assigning social workers. That just changes the dynamics of how you work with defenders, because at the end of the day, having that opportunity to interact with them while they're going through whatever case it may be, right, can really transform their lives from a prevention standpoint. They might have made that mistake that introduced them to the system, but then you have that opportunity to interact with them. Me, I had a probation officer. That's who Judge Reynolds assigned me to, right? And at that time, she would pop up on me when I'm on the corner, see what I was doing, and that just encouraged me 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. to start looking at applying to schools. I went to Mansfield University, and at this time, homicide rates in the City of Philadelphia was already 500. And then when we say it depends on who is in the position, well, we had Castille, Lynne Abraham, but the homicide rates were still going up and it didn't change. So at some point in time, we got to look at things a little differently, right, and this is to try to help people at an intersection where you can transform their lives, then maybe think about doing something different or maybe putting an option in the front of them that they may have never thought of, because in most of these neighborhoods -- and I'm speaking from lived experience. Most of the neighborhoods, this is all some people know, right? I come from the era where you didn't venture really downtown but so much, because we had thriving business corridors, so what's the point of going 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. downtown, and that's all you know within your corridor, your block, right? And so when you do get in a situation, you have that opportunity with your social worker, case manager to kind of maybe hopefully help somebody think about the life choices that they are making and hopefully provide the resources. So just keep up the good work. With that being said, I'm going to ask for -- and also just welcome back, Everett Gillison. For those who may not know, part of the Nutter Administration. - - - (Applause.) - - -
Deputy Commissioner for Public Safety, correct?
We have met plenty of days around this same topic of keeping the City of Philadelphia 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. forward. But it's good to see you back still doing the same work, which we know that means it's in your heart, because you're back still doing the same work that you were doing when you were part of the Administration. With that being said, thank you very much. Will the Clerk please call the next person for testimony.
Renee Garcia, City Solicitor. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Good afternoon. Don't take us back to the morning, Council President. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
I had a long day yesterday. SOLICITOR GARCIA: It's been a long day.
I had a long day yesterday. Before you state your name and your title and begin your testimony, I want to congratulate you on your position. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you.
Congratulations on your outstanding legal work as it relates to us fighting the gun manufacturer, particularly around the issue of ghost guns. I think that deserves a round of applause. - - - (Applause.) - - - SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you.
As a District Councilmember, I remember introducing legislation to deal with just 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. the actual parts, and then we got sued and you stepped up to the plate and said, hey, we are going to take on these giants as it relates to ghost guns and how they're flooding the streets of Philadelphia. So we just want to personally, on behalf of this body, just say thank you. We appreciate your hard work and your dedication around that particular issue. And with that being said, go ahead and begin your testimony. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you, Council President. Renee Garcia, City Solicitor. Good afternoon. I am joined here by my executive team, which are all here behind me, and pleased to provide testimony on the Law Department's Fiscal Year 2025 Operating Budget proposal. My remarks will be somewhat brief today, because I was with you just about four weeks ago, so you know -- you've heard a lot about the Law Department's 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. initiatives. We employ over 360 attorneys and professional staff who have dedicated their professional careers to serving the City. I, along with my entire team of the Law Department, have the esteemed honor and pleasure of applying innovative legal strategy on behalf of our City clients to achieve equitable solutions to some of the most complex challenges facing Philadelphia. Continued investment in the current and future legal operations of the Law Department will benefit the City socially, economically, and environmentally. As this City Council knows, the Law Department's work touches every part of the lives of this city's residents, from supporting contracts and real estate transactions that allow public parks and playgrounds to be built, to initiating litigation to improve quality of life and reduce gun violence, to protecting our most vulnerable 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. children and ensuring they have room to grow, thrive, and be the future of Philadelphia. Law's work is integral to ensuring safer, cleaner, greener, and economically vibrant future of our city. In the past five years alone, the Law Department has recovered hundreds of millions of dollars in settlement funds, tax revenue, fines and fees on behalf of the City, boosting the General Fund and enabling the City to apply those funds to efforts to address safety and quality-of-life issues across Philadelphia. This commitment to investing in Law's staff is crucial to both retention and our ability to attract and hire a diverse set of the best and brightest legal minds, which we need as we work together to solve some of the City's most complex challenges. Our proposed General Fund budget totals 28,266,870. The budget 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. submission includes an overall decrease of $2.788 million, with 3.45 million coming from Class 200, which removes funding for the implementation of a new case management system, and we have an increase to Class 100 in the amount of $622,000 to fund new positions. And with that, I'll take any of your questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Quetcy Lozada.
I can't even believe I'm first. Welcome. Thank you so much for all the work that you do. Thank you for the support that you've given to me and my staff as we worked to build legislation over the course of the last 17 months. Extremely grateful for the support. As we work to better improve quality of life in the district and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. across the City, it's no secret that we have many nuisance businesses within or across the City. How is the Law Department working with the Department of License and Inspection to better tackle this issue now that the License and Inspection Department has been divided in two? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. So we did not obtain in this budget new staffing positions in our budget for nuisance businesses for essentially our code team. So we are in conversations with L&I and Cleaner and Greener and the Police Department, and we will determine as they determine what their needs are going into the new year how they can support our budget with new attorneys and staff, but we are in many, many conversations and we have a very ambitious slate of commissioners obviously supported by a very ambitious Mayor. So as I was listening to the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Mayor's budget address, I was thinking legal work, legal work, legal work, right, on down the line. So there will be a need for sure to increase the staffing, particularly in our code team. And we already did staff up. So last year City Council was able to give us $500,000. We hired four new attorneys and three new support staff, and they're up and running, and I can tell you the numbers of referrals that we got from L&I just in this last year, 3,000 cases, plus the board appeals, and now I'm expecting even more on top of that.
What do we or what do City residents have to do to, I guess, target a business or mark a business or make a business a nuisance business, right? We get calls all the time about a very specific business who is consistently violating whether it be quality-of-life issues or whether it be liquor license issues. How does a person make an 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. establishment a nuisance and how long does it take the Law Department to actually execute or take this business to court? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yeah. A lot of it kind of depends on what the nuisance is obviously. But we are also beholden to the referrals that we get from L&I, and I believe they are staffing up as well. So we have to wait for the referral to come in, but what we are seeing and I think what you are seeing is a game of Whac-A-Mole in the drug paraphernalia space. We cite them, they take it down, they bring it back up, right? In the tobacco space, we cite them, they take it down, they bring it back up. And so depending on the violation, certainly there are ways to go to the most egregious, which is to take away a Commercial Activity License, and we do do that absolutely, but what we are 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. looking at now, and we can have discussions offline, I think there probably could be code amendments to help with the enforcement as we are working with the new Commissioners and figuring out where our target will be, because we are also feeling the frustration of multiple offenders.
I just heard you mention that you guys hired up, right? Are you at a place in your department where you feel like with the work that this current Administration wants to do, are you at a point where you feel that you have the necessary staffing to be able to respond to the type of work that we are looking forward to doing in the future, and if not, what would it take? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Well, we did ask for 67 new positions, which I know is pie in the sky. We got 500,000, which will be about five positions, and we have three positions from the MDO. So we're 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. at eight. Like I said, we're going to each of the operating departments who got funding to figure out what they can pay for, because certainly we can't -- for litigation, for defensive litigation, I can't control what comes in, right? What comes in, either we're going to handle it internally or we're going to send it to outside counsel, which is just Class 200. So I've reached capacity in Labor and Employment and capacity in Civil Rights and I'm sending work out. With contracts, I can't control the flow of contracts, right? I hate to tell people I can't work on your -- and I mean "I" in the sort of royal "I," right? I can't work on. So certainly we're upscaling, and the MDO positions will help us there. And then in our affirmative, right, our code, our tax, our affirmative litigation, which does the ghost guns, you know, that is -- you don't see it as optional, but that we can control a 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. little more, but obviously we want to push ahead and push ahead and push ahead. So these conversations that we're having with the different operating departments is crucial, what is your need going to be, how can I pivot the work that I'm already doing, and how much more can you support the Law Department's budget.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nina Ahmad.
Thank you, Council President. Good afternoon. I have a quick question about in your testimony you said that you're helping -- I don't know how you say it -- O-P-A-L with the transition over to a new program called the Workday Program. This is on of your testimony. Can you please talk more about the legal work that's involved in 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. this? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Okay. OPAL, I call it OPAL, and I will admit I am not the best person to do a deep dive into OPAL and I think we're getting together something for City Council to hear, but it will be moving all of the contracts onto a new system. So we are unfortunately dealing with systems in the City, and you've all experienced this, they were built in, I don't know, the '70s, the '80s. They look like they're DOS space. I don't know. But they don't work well, right? And so the flow of contracts in particular between Law, OEO, Procurement, Risk, Finance, Budget, the Controller, all of the parties, is not efficient, right? So what we are doing to prepare for OPAL right now is going through different kinds of contracts and shoring up basic terms and processes and procedures and how can we make it more efficient for us. So that's part of it, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is kind of getting ready for OPAL, making sure we have all the contracts -- we know where all the contracts are, right, to get them on. And then of course there's the other side of it of doing the contracts necessary to run OPAL, which is doing the tech contracts. And, again, I'm not the best person to talk about the contracts there. So there is a tremendous amount. And I think you heard the MDO this morning talk about there is a recognized need across the board to improve the contracting process, full stop. Law handles about a third of that process, but like I said, we are going through right now trying to update our contracts, trying to make them more consistent so that when we do start rolling through OPAL, we can have more of a seamless process.
So we will be reducing the time a customer, so to speak, sees when their contract is 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. executed. This is going to -- SOLICITOR GARCIA: This is all in furtherance of that, yes. I know, it drives me nuts as well. There's so many pieces, and for good reason, right? There has to be checks and balance, and I understand that, but I'm really excited about OPAL and what it can bring to our contracting process.
Second quick question is that your testimony states that the Law Department withdrew its motion to end overcrowding at the Philadelphia Juvenile Justice Services Center because as of November 8th, the population reached acceptable levels, and you will continue to advocate on behalf of the City. Can you explain how you're doing that? Because this is a very sacred space and difficult space. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yeah. So thank you for the question. So just to be clear, our lawsuit stands, right? So we filed against the Commonwealth. Our lawsuit stands. We had filed emergency pleadings to have the state take the children to get our numbers below 184. They did that. They haven't taken all the children that they should take, and you heard in the line of questioning earlier that these children, they're not -- their time is not running, they're not getting the services they need, right? So they should be taking more kids, and that is why our lawsuit stands, right? So that we can continue to go through to judgment and have something permanent on the record. There was just not a need for the emergency motion because the numbers have come down. And I think it's blipped up a couple times. I'm looking at my First Deputy here. But for the most part, we have been under the 184. We've even hit in the 170's, which 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is very exciting.
And you still have your eyes on that and that lawsuit is -- SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. But we are going forward to judgment, no 8 question.
Okay. And the last question is, you mentioned that you're supporting the Office of Sustainability and operating departments on climate resiliency and environmental justice issues. Can you provide some insight about your role in this space and your capacity to address environmental issues? And one contract issue that's going to be coming up is Covanta. That's coming up in 2017 -- I mean 2027. SOLICITOR GARCIA: For this I'm going to call up my Chair of the Corporate and Tax group, Valerie Robinson, who can talk about the support of the Office of Sustainability. We have an environmental unit 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. that is assisting them on many, many different areas of air quality. From the litigation perspective, I'll also say we are filing affirmative action. So we filed the PFAS case, for example, to recover money that we need to clean out our water because of the forever chemicals that are polluting. (Witness approached witness table.) SOLICITOR GARCIA: So, Valerie, if you could talk just a little bit about the work that our regulatory team does for the Office of Sustainability.
Good afternoon. My name is Valerie Robinson. I'm the Chair of the Corporate and Tax group, and as Renee said, one of the divisions in my portfolio is the environmental division. So we provide advice and counsel to the Office of Sustainability. We draft and negotiate all of the agreements that they do. We help them work on regulations, all of which is to help ensure that we're 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. living in a cleaner, greener, safer city.
Okay. That's good. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.
The Chair recognizes Councilmember Nick O'Rourke.
Thank you, Council President. Hello. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Hello.
Good to see you. Law's proposal includes three new budgeted positions that are attorneys meant to aid the MDO's Office specifically. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes.
Is this boost tied to the new initiatives that MDO is undertaking, like clean and green, triage centers, et cetera? SOLICITOR GARCIA: I'll tell you all three of them. So one will be a 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. compliance position focused on public safety and primarily the Prisons. Another will be a position to support the Office of Homeless Services in a compliance and contract position. And then the third is to support the Capital Program Office. So those are the three that we've been approved for.
Okay. Is it kind of concomitant with MDO's plans for whatever they're planning right now for you all to increase that staff or is this something that you wanted this to happen outside of what MDO is doing? SOLICITOR GARCIA: It is to support everything that you heard testified about this morning. Absolutely.
Okay. Thank you. I wanted to turn our attention to of Law's budget detail to the obligated payments to Hangley -- I'm about to mess these names up -4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Aronchick, Segal and Pudlin, I apologize, set aside for the purpose of what's labeled "select committee." It's my understanding -- please correct me if I am wrong on this -- these payments are legal fees tied to the impeachment of the DA and that taxpayers are footing the bill of $240,000 for this last year alone. That case is still winding up to state Supreme Court. So we are wondering in our office, do you foresee Philadelphians paying more in the coming fiscal year for impeachment-related legal fees than they have in the last year? SOLICITOR GARCIA: I hope not. I don't have a crystal ball. We have a different makeup of the General Assembly now, so if it comes down, it may not be in the same posture. So I wish I could tell you what the court was going to do. I would say that it's possible. I don't know if that's possible or probable. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
Right. But I am accurate, though, that that's what that's for? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
So we're paying the bill for said thing. Okay. Affirmative civil litigation is always of interest to our office, particularly as it concerns suits related to climate change. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes.
Prior conversations with Law have pointed to some specific roadblocks on that front. Still encouraged to see the issue addressed in your testimony via written. Could you give some insight into some of the viable litigation strategies that Law is pursuing as it relates to holding companies that contribute to climate change effects in Philadelphia accountable? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yeah. Some 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. of it will be privileged information. I do have some ideas, but we are following what is going on around the country, and PFAS is a really big one. Lead paint is -- lead in the water, lead in the soil is very big as well. We are working with environmental justice partners throughout the country to try to get ideas. So I have some very specific ideas, but I don't want to give away my secrets in public.
Okay. Understood. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Happy to talk further with you about it, though.
Just this is not so much in the Commonwealth, you're looking across the nation at some trends? SOLICITOR GARCIA: It is across the nation, absolutely. We have a network of solicitor county attorneys across the nation, and we are actively talking about these issues constantly, 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. right, what can we do in the space of climate change, of environmental justice, absolutely.
Okay. Thank you very much. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you, Councilmember.
You just say my formal name today. You know that I am a huge fan of the Law Department too. I have worked with, I think, more individual lawyers in the Law Department than many, many others 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. in the City, so a huge fan. First question is the new consumer protection bill. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes.
Which is very exciting. It's to give the powers to the Administration through the Law Department to fight a lot of the bad guys, folks who are scamming our residents, elders, limited English folks. How do you see -- how will it be implemented? How do you want to get cases? What are you going to choose? Do you have your eyes on anything? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. So there is a Consumer Protection Task Force, which I think is maybe sunsetting. It's been around for two years, but that's partnerships with the Law Department, the Attorney General's Office, CLS, different advocate groups around -- I think SeniorLAW is involved, and I was really excited after you introduced the bill and I was able to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. take a call with them and to say, look, like now we have the tool that we needed to go after like an MV Realty, right? That's the prime example. But it was also mentioned, I believe, this morning the targeting on elders has just ramped up. I mean, I even see it on my phone, right? Your package is not being delivered, please call us and give us your credit card, you know, all of those things. So we now have the tool. I believe I said in my confirmation hearing we are starting with sort of the big schemes, right, the big classes, the repeat offenders over and over again. I expect there will be a lot in the housing space. That much I know is your area of expertise. So I am working with this task force to start to send in -- I've given them kind of these are the cases I'm looking for and start sending us referrals, and we're going to start 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. investigating, but it is going to take a community and I'm so thankful that we have all of these partners to rely on. It's going to take a while to work up some cases, but I'm really excited to get that work started.
You said you thought the task force was going to sunset. Was it created by resolution or something? SOLICITOR GARCIA: I think it was a two-year.
By resolution? SOLICITOR GARCIA: By resolution, two years. Maybe there was an executive order. I can't exactly remember.
I will help you extend that. SOLICITOR GARCIA: But the work continues, right? I don't think anybody is just going to drop the work regardless of what is sunsetting, because obviously 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. with this new shiny toy that I have, I'm going to need everybody.
Yes. Excited for the shiny toy. Next question about the gun violence preemption case where you're trying to challenge the way in which people are interpreting preemption for all of our gun bills. Where exactly -- it's pending at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, and what's the status there? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Correct. It was argued in September. Again, your guess is as good as mine. They don't do the same as the U.S. Supreme Court where they drop everything in one horrible week in June, but, you know, it could come any day, truly.
Okay. Thank you. And I want to -- two more. One is just going back to contracting again. I have to. I'm having a better understanding of how court-appointed 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. lawyers are paid now, and it seems that it's approved by the court itself. So it goes through various measures. You go and take a case. The judge signs off, yes, you were here. It goes through their internal administrative system. Yep, it was this person, they were here, they worked this amount of time. And it comes to the City, and we do a review as well. Can we just take the court's word for it and speed it up a little bit that way and at least cut that part out to just like here's your check, here's your check? The alternative is to give the money to the courts so they can pay. They're court-appointed attorneys, but I think they say there's a conflict. They believe there's at least a perception of a conflict of interest. They're appointing the attorney and paying the attorney, right? SOLICITOR GARCIA: So the issue 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is that -- I'm not going to throw Finance under the bus, but for real there are actual documents and information that has to be provided so that Finance and the Controller can sign off on everything, right? And that is where -- the court is signing off on the amount, but the attorney has to get in all of the documents. I'm sorry. I don't know all the specifications. It's not a good system. So I'm actually actively working with the courts to figure out a better system. Apparently this is a relic of the Nutter years that there was an MOU that the Managing Director would do this. I don't know that it's the greatest place for it. So we are going to be speaking with the courts. We realize there is an issue, absolutely. We're on top of it. I speak to the courts quite frequently to try to figure out at least for now the quality assurance, can we figure out what the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. systemic issues are so we can make payments a little faster. But it's not a great system overall.
Okay. Thank you for that. I'm going to try to slip one more in real quick. It might be too long. Okay. I am going to pause for a minute. I might come back for one more. Yes? Do it now. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you, Councilmember.
Okay. I know that you're working with DHS to secure additional grant funding to hire more attorneys that will allow Law to engage in anti-racism work. I'm very concerned about Family Court and the ways in which there are too many barriers to family reunification. I think we -- very similar to what we just talked about with the Chief Defender. Let's do what we can to keep families together, to get the resources to the family if possible, and 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. hopefully keep them out of the criminal justice system. And I know that you've been wanting -- you've been working with DHS to get some grant funding, I believe, for like anti-racism work and work with the courts. What resources are needed to ensure the City's most vulnerable children experience positive outcomes after interaction through Family Court? Because we want to make sure that we provide them with the best legal representation and employ the right attorneys to make that happen, and can you just speak to that? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. I'm going to call up my First Deputy, Meghan Goddard, who is our resident expert on all of these matters. (Witness approached witness table.) SOLICITOR GARCIA: And she can speak to our racial justice work as well as the funding that we're trying to 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. figure out with the Commonwealth, because some of it comes through PA DHS, then through our DHS, and it's quite hard to figure out what they're funding and when they're funding it. DEPUTY SOLICITOR GODDARD: Good afternoon, Councilmember. I'm Meghan Goddard, First Deputy. So we are working -- the Child Welfare Unit in the Law Department is working independently and with DHS on all DEI initiatives, because as you mentioned, recognizing that the youth and families that come into our system are primarily of color, knowing how -- like our attorneys need those skills to know what they are working with. So we do have grant funding from the state. So we are working with DHS to ensure more attorneys to lower caseloads and to continue that DEI training.
Thank you. And this is also for 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. court-appointed attorneys? DEPUTY SOLICITOR GODDARD: We're focusing right now working with our attorneys in the Law Department in the Child Welfare Unit doing both Law Department training and working very closely with DHS, so we're on the same page.
Excellent. Thank you very much. SOLICITOR GARCIA: And I'll just put a plug in. So some of the things we are doing in the DEI space, we created an inclusive language guide for our attorneys to use when they're in court. So we're trying to get rid of words like "grandfathered," right, trying to use gender-neutral pronouns, trying to call, you know, a person the parent rather than the mother, right, trying to use the language that fits the society we're in today. And I'm so proud that our inclusive language guide has been sent out to various partners and the ACLU 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. is using it and other partners are using it. So that is some of the work that's really important for us in the DEI space and particularly in child welfare.
Excellent. I'll take a copy. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Yes. Absolutely.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilmember J. Young, Esquire.
Thank you, Mr. President. Just questions regarding Act 135. Just correct me if I'm wrong. Does the City get notices for every Act 135 petition filed? SOLICITOR GARCIA: We should 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. be, and we have worked out -- if you're asking, we've tried to work it out when it comes to us that we are allowing the Councilmember's office to have a courtesy copy of that, if that's a particular question.
Yeah. So what are the impediments to that then, for providing that information to Council offices? SOLICITOR GARCIA: It just hadn't been put in place before, but now when we get them, we reach out to your -- we figure out what Council district it is and we should be reaching out to your office to let you know that we got it. And if that's not happening, please let me know.
Okay. So I don't know if any were filed in my district in the last, I guess, what, three months. I'm unsure, but I will be reaching out to find out. Along the same lines, what do 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. you do with this information once you get it? Like once you are, I guess, served or whatever, receive the petition, what does the Law Department do with that petition, that information? SOLICITOR GARCIA: I'm going to call up my Chief of Staff, Sam Scavuzzo, who came from our tax unit.
Hi. Good afternoon. Sam Scavuzzo. I used to be in the tax unit, so would handle these cases on occasion. So it would kind of depend on whether or not there was any City debt. Usually a property in the situation might have some back taxes. So we would kind of work to ensure that the City's credit -- the debt obligations are honored. We wouldn't necessarily enter ourselves as parties to these cases, but we would monitor them and make sure that 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. opposing counsel or the person -- the petitioner for the conservatorship is working in the best interest for the City, the neighborhood to take off the blighted property and restore it to good use and to make sure the City would get paid on its debt obligations as well.
Has the City ever filed to intervene in a matter, in a conservatorship matter?
Has the City ever filed a petition to be appointed the conservator over a particular property?
From the conservatorship? I've only experienced it myself in the debt perspective, so I would have to follow up and get you an answer to that question, Councilmember.
If it's a policy of the City, if Council agrees that this is something that the City 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. needs to, I guess, be more present in, that the City needs to follow up on these matters a little bit pressingly, is the Law Department opposed to affirmatively intervening and/or filing petitions in Act 135 matters that City Council deems needs to be -- to protect the best interest of the City according to what District Councilmembers particularly understand? SOLICITOR GARCIA: This is the first time that has been asked of me personally, so I will follow up with your office and we can have a discussion about that.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Isaiah Thomas.
Good morning -- good afternoon, Council 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. President. I'll be very brief. First of all, I just want to say congratulations again, and thank you to you personally. I know the great work that you've done specifically around the driving equality legislation. I'll also say that when I first came into City Council, I was one of those Councilmembers who was very skeptical about the relationship between the City Solicitor and the Admin, and not that you've been in this position for a long time to be able to speak to that dilemma with any substance, but I do have a lot of faith and confidence that you'll be able to balance both based on the work that you've done in the past and how closely you've worked with my team and my office as well. So thank you so much for what you've done, and congratulations. Just one or two quick questions. The Mayor has a compliance lawyer in the MDO's Office for her staff. What would be that focus? Why would the 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Admin need a compliance lawyer that's different than the work that the City Solicitor's Office does, and what would be the focus of that particular position that's different than the legal support that your office provides? SOLICITOR GARCIA: I think you're talking about a compliance position funded by MDO that has -- it's funded by MDO, but it sits in my department. It has to do with the American Disabilities Act. So this is actually a new position that we've created. I think it's funded by the Streets Department. There are a lot of ADA issues that come up in right to way and homeless services. And so we've consolidated all of the different ADA issues into this one position that's being funded through the MDO's Office.
Thank you, Council President. Thank you again. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC.
You're welcome. Any other questions or comments from members of this Committee?
Thank you, Mr. President. And on a similar line of questioning to Councilmember Thomas' question, the Mayor's Office also has a chief legal counsel position. Could you tell us what the role of that particular individual is versus what the role and the advice that the Law Department plays? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Kristin Bray is the Chief, and she still reports to me. So she is on the org chart as reporting to me. She is building out PhillyStat, which I think you heard about this morning, and you should definitely ask her for a deep dive, but she is 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. assisting primarily in the Mayor's Office on that. She's also helping with our encampments, because she is the resident expert on encampments. But she has a dual role from the Law Department and as a Director. There is a provision in the City Charter that essentially lets the different departments loan out. And so she's on loan to the Mayor's Office but still reports to me.
Is she in the Law Department's budget or the Mayor's Office budget? SOLICITOR GARCIA: She's moved to the Mayor's Office budget, which is not uncommon. We have lawyers on different budgets. We have on DHS budget, we have Water budget, we have Airport budget. We have lawyers on budget through that mechanism through the Charter where we're kind of loaning out. Revenue is also on the Revenue's budget.
Okay. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you.
Any of my members need an extra lawyer? Y'all good?
You need a couple? Ms. Garcia, listen, we look forward to continuing working with you to move the City of Philadelphia forward. Again, congratulations. Keep up the good work. I'm also going to give you kudos from my colleague Councilwoman Jamie Gauthier, the hard work you did to help her. So just keep fighting the good fight. We look forward to working with you. Okay? SOLICITOR GARCIA: Thank you, Council President. Thank you, Council. We appreciate your support.
You're welcome. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilmember Isaiah Thomas for a motion to adjourn.
Thank you, Council President. I move that the Committee of the Whole stands in recess until Wednesday morning, April 17th at 10:00 a.m. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and properly seconded that the meeting and the bills and resolutions before the Committee today stand in recess until Wednesday, April the 17th, 2024 at 10:00 a.m. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it, and the meeting is adjourned. 4/16/24 - WHOLE - BILL 240179, ETC. - - - (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 4:24 p.m.) - - CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)