COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEES ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND PARKS, RECREATION AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, September 1, 2009 10:10 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY, CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN, CHAIR COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR. COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO RESOLUTION 090269 - Resolution authorizing City Council's Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs to hold joint public hearings to investigate the feasibility of installing sustainable irrigation systems beneath City recreation fields... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. The joint Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs is now in session to hear testimony on an exploratory situation relative to our City's playing fields and athletic facilities. With me today is the Chairperson of the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs Committee, Blondell Reynolds Brown. We have a number of other Councilmen who are going to come, but they're en route, and since we're not taking a vote today, this is an informational hearing only, we do not need a quorum. So in the interest of time, we'd like to get started. First I'd like to read the resolution that was authorized for this hearing. This is a resolution 23 authorizing City Council's Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs to hold joint hearings 3 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 to investigate the feasibility of installing sustainable irrigation systems beneath City recreation fields to improve the condition, reduce maintenance and associated costs, and extend the lifespan of the fields. One of the things that motivated this hearing is that -- and it's not a fault of our Recreation Department, because they work very hard -- but a number of our green athletic fields are sometimes in deplorable condition because of the amount of use that they get. We go from football to baseball to soccer and there never seems to be a period of time where the fields are not in use, and despite the best efforts of our Recreation Department and Fairmount Park Commission -- well, I guess they're all the same now -- maintenance crews, they really just can't get ahead of it. We've had a number of fields that we worked on individually in South 4 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Philadelphia and a couple other places where we've tried to reseed, get the sprinkler systems fixed and do all the things necessary to make sure that our kids and our adults have the opportunity to play on fields that are commensurate with what the suburbs looks like, because they have, I guess, more money in their budget for those kinds of things. We came across this system that is going to be explained in a PowerPoint at the end of the hearing relative to the retention of rainwater below the surface of the field, which precludes the need for a sprinkler system, which precludes a lot of the maintenance that's necessary. And basically if you look at the amount of water that we've gotten from the sky in the last number of weeks, all that water has runoff. With this system in place -- and once it's explained, hopefully you'll understand it -- is that all of that water or a lot of that water would have been retained underground and 5 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 leached out over a period of time as the ground dried out. So the material that it's made from is recyclable, the water is natural, the process is sustainable, and you wind up with a field -- and we've seen some fields in Arizona and Southern California, which is rain -- in need of rain a lot -- the field conditions there are just stupendous. One of the fields is a university field in Arizona that gets constant use and it's as green as the Emerald City. It's beautiful. So we want to get started and just have this conversation. I'd like to give the opportunity for Councilwoman Reynolds Brown to say a few words relative to her position.
Good morning, and my brief remarks are simply to commend the leadership of the Committee on the Environment for remaining forever vigilant and alert of opportunities where we can honor the 6 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Mayor's pledge to make Philadelphia a more sustainable city. This, I believe, is a giant step in that direction, and at the end of the tunnel, it benefits the Rec Department and all citizens who want to use our recreation facilities. So congratulations to the Chair of this Committee for that effort, for the idea and then for the follow-through that comes with the start in a hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much. And I'd also like to acknowledge the presence of Councilman Rizzo, who is a member of the Committee. Our first witness is Commissioner Susan Slawson from the Recreation Department. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good morning. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good 7 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 morning.
It's a beautiful day, isn't it? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: It's a beautiful day.
I love it when the humidity went away. It's stunning. So please identify yourself for the record and proceed. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good morning. I'm Susan Slawson, Recreation Commissioner.
Please proceed. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good morning, Councilman Kenney. Good morning, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown and members of the Committee on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. My name is Susan Slawson, Recreation Commissioner for the City of Philadelphia. On behalf of Parks and Recreation Commissioner, Michael 8 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 DiBerardinis, I am here to testify about the feasibility of installing water irrigation systems beneath our 275 plus athletic fields. Thank you for this opportunity to present our findings. The Recreation Department is responsible for 275 plus athletic fields. Many of them serve youth and adult populations for a variety of athletic activities such as soccer, baseball, softball and football. For an average period of nine months per year, the Department of Recreation Sports and Athletics staff oversees, coordinates and implements 30 programs, events and activities each year, serving over 45,000 individuals, encompassing both youth and adult league activity coordinated by Recreation staff and numerous athletic associations. Currently, we have two active irrigation systems beneath our fields. The advisory councils at Fox Chase and Murphy Recreation facilities have 9 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 installed these systems without City funding. Today's testimony will focus on installation, preventive maintenance and other costs associated with utilizing water irrigation systems for our athletic facilities. The advantages of installing the irrigation systems include providing healthier fields, creating better playing conditions for our users, preventing accidents because of healthier fields, and encouraging more citizens to use the athletic fields because of the improved appearance and the condition. However, there are some operational issues we would need to address, which would include adding additional cycles to the mowing contract - the grass would grow faster because of the irrigation system; having responsibility for repairing and replacing parts of the system once the warranty has expired; monitoring water consumption, which would increase - currently we irrigate two athletic fields 10 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 that I mentioned; developing a training program for staff who would utilize the irrigation system; and needing additional allocation for operating dollars to support the system. Additional funding would have to be available in order to pay for professional services necessary to complete an assessment of our fields in an effort to analyze the composition. Many of the fields would need to be excavated, filled with soil, aerated and seeded, because some fields are presently filled with mud, clay and cinder materials. If this process is not completed at select locations prior to an irrigation system being installed, we would create unsafe conditions. Those conditions would include puddles of water, which destroys grass, creates mud and may increase the number of accidents caused by slip and falls. We took the opportunity to gather some figures on the average cost 11 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 to install simple irrigation systems and the costs associated with maintaining the system. According to the Department of Public Property, an average irrigation system would cost approximately $40,000 per field to install. This amount equates to 95 cents per square foot for installation, piping, pumps and sprinkler heads. Therefore, we are estimating costs at $11 million to install the irrigation system citywide. That's a simple system.
Commissioner, so you understand, what we're talking about is not -- we're talking about a passive irrigation system. So there would be no need for pumps or for piping. It's the material that's installed that's self-sustaining, and the additional -- and I think what I need the Department to think about as we go forward is the additional savings. And, first of all, we don't have to use treated water to irrigate the fields, 12 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 because the field would be irrigated by the rainwater that's retained. And I do agree with you relative to mowing, because hopefully the grass will grow as high as possible without being a dust ball. So we will have to cut that on a more regular basis. But I believe -- and we can get more information as the presentation goes on -- that it's really not employee-resource centered. Once it's in, it's pretty passive. Now, granted, the cost of putting it in needs to be weighed against what we do now, but there really won't be any pipes and sprinkler heads and all those things to maintain or replace as we did at Murphy and some of the other places. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Right. What I did is, I gave you a simple system, and then I'm going to talk a little bit about the system that you're talking about.
Thank you very much. 13 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Okay. So there are additional costs associated with connecting the sprinkler system to the water and sewage system. If a recreation center has the ability to support the system without causing a significant decrease in water pressure throughout the building, the cost, according to the Philadelphia Water Department, to install the meter would be $3,000. This is the sprinkler system I'm still talking about now. If the building cannot support the system, according to the Philadelphia Water Department and the Department of Public Property, each site will need a two-inch water service line with a meter and backflow prevention system. 2 million systemwide. This does not include the cost of the actual irrigation system. 14 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 In addition, we would assume the responsibility of a monthly fee of $450. This fee would include stormwater collection and treatment, meter costs, industrial waste control, billing and collecting costs. 5 million solely for the system and does not include water consumption. The cost of water services would depend on the usage of the system and weather conditions. It would also depend on the system's ability to recycle and retain water. 1 million within a six-month period. Other factors in the cost analysis include winterizing the irrigation system and the preventive maintenance costs to protect our investment. In accordance with Fairmount 15 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Park's assessment, their best run irrigation systems cost approximately $1,500 per field per year with minimal breakdown. If a pump goes down, the charge is about $3,500 more. Now, the stormwater system that you're talking about, we did a little research on that. Research was conducted regarding the use of a more comprehensive irrigation system including a stormwater management system. This is a stormwater management system that includes a passive irrigation system. Further study indicates that this type of system would be cost effective during new construction, as it requires the field to be excavated, a liner system installed, piping and sand inclusion. Based on our research, the average cost for an irrigation system with the stormwater management feature is about $5 to $8 per square foot to install. Our average athletic field is approximately 48,000 16 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 square feet, a little over one acre. The installation for each field using this type of system could range from $240,000 to about $384,000 per field. Over the years, we have maintained the baseball diamonds that have the greatest use in each district. Currently, the fields are maintained by internal maintenance staff. Some of the advisory councils assist the Department of Recreation by raising funds to maintain our fields. The Recreation Department maintains a total of 261 baseball diamonds. Within the past three years, we have restored an average of 62 baseball diamonds on a rotating basis. Our list of restoration duties include cutting the infields, removing vegetation, repairing fence lines and batting cages, and adjusting pitching mounds. The average cost is $220,000 per season. The cost reflects manpower, equipment, gas consumption and infield mix. If irrigation systems were 17 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 installed, we would have to reevaluate the cost associated with maintaining the growth of additional vegetation. Based on the weather and usage of the irrigation system, we would have to increase our cycles 75 to 80 percent, as you can see with the weather we've had this summer with all the rain and how the grass has looked a lot better than some past years, to maintain the fields at safe conditions.
In conclusion, the Department of Recreation is supportive of exploring and researching the feasibility of having irrigation systems installed beneath our 275 plus athletic fields, and at this time, I am here with key members of my staff. Deputy Commissioner Michael Johnson is to my right and Maintenance Director Frank Fabey is to my left. So if you have any questions.
Thank you very much. I'd also like to acknowledge 18 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 presence of Councilman Curtis Jones, who is a member of the Committee. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good morning, Councilman Jones.
What I would like the Department to do is to identify in their mind the ten worst conditions that we have. I recognize there's 261 or so fields and some of them have been rehabilitated already, and I'm not advocating that we start tearing up stuff that we've already done, but the ten dustiest, desolate places that we have that really could use the water. Some of the things that really excite me about this -- and I know there's costs associated with whatever we do, whether we have an active system or a passive system, cutting the grass, maintaining it, it all adds cost, but the one thing that's motivated me in this issue is, sometimes when I attend events -- and, again, your maintenance people are here. You guys do a fabulous 19 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 job. Whatever we ask you to do, you do to the best of your ability, but the resources just aren't there. And sometimes when I go to attend a football game or a soccer game or a baseball game somewhere and we have now that we're mixing with the suburbs and our kids are playing with the suburban kids, I mean, it's just sometimes depressing to watch a wind gust come by and everybody having to cover up their eyes because the dust from the field is killing them. And our kids go out to the suburbs and play in lush, college-style fields. My goal, in addition to the sustainability, the water management, all that stuff, is to have fields that we all can be proud of in the City as they are in the suburbs or in certain other parts of the City. So that's the first goal. The second goal is trying to balance the cost associated with it. And the third goal for me is this interesting sustainability stuff, 20 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 where once we put in a system, other than cutting the grass, we really don't have to do anything else to it and that we don't have to pay for processed water to be sprinklered onto the fields, that nature provides that, and also gives us the opportunity to make, as Councilwoman Brown said, a greener city, a city that manages its water resources better, that has a better air environment because we're not -- the supersite that the School District did down in South Philly and the one up in the Northeast are fabulous, but they don't provide really any type of environmental benefit. I mean, it's a wonderful field to play on and it's very maintenance free as far as the grass cutting and stuff, but it doesn't provide that environmental air quality stuff we're looking for also. So that's the long-term goal. So what I want to do is look at maybe the top ten of our biggest offenders and then try to partner with 21 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 some corporate help, recognizing the City's lack of funds. Maybe there's some corporations in the City that have expressed interest in sustainability and greening that may want to partner with the City on that. So I'm looking to start slow and not rip up anything that we've done in the last three to five years, but kind of look at the bad ones. Councilwoman Brown.
Now -- COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Councilman Kenney, would you like for me to get you the list of the ten locations?
The ones that your staff feel that are the worst. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Okay.
One, for example, that I know is really bad is 5th and Washington Avenue, because it gets so much use. Now, you have an active advisory council there. You have people that are in the neighborhood that are 22 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 working hard to maintain the pool areas and the area to the west, the park area that's been greened and flowered and all, and then you have the athletic field that gets so much use, from soccer primarily but also from softball and baseball, that it's a brown -- it's a dirt patch. So those kinds of fields would be the ones. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: I'll make sure I get you that information.
your testimony, last paragraph, you talk about the two athletic fields that you currently irrigate. How long has that process been in place? What prompted that initiative, and what take-away lessons can you pull from this as we move forward to the new effort proposed by Councilman Kenney?
Councilwoman, Fox Chase was done by the advisory council. 23 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 It's probably only about two and a half to three years old. Murphy is a very antiquated system that we actually, through the Councilman's help, we were given some funding. We brought it back to life, I guess you have to say. We replaced the heads. It's an old galvanized system. It's probably years old. We installed 11 a new pump. We just actually used what 12 was there and -- 13
I see. 18 And so what are the takeaways in those 19 experiences that we can use that would be 20 beneficial looking forward?
It's created a tremendous field. If you go to Fox Chase, it's a well irrigated system. The grass is very green. Murphy, for the amount of play 24 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 on there this year, has probably looked the best -- I have 35 years with the City of Philadelphia. It's probably looked better than it's ever looked because of the Councilman's help. It does work. It's a very beneficial thing for people to play on. People are very happy with the system. As antiquated as it is, it works very well.
Let me just one add-on to the Murphy situation, because I was involved in it. Without the staff help there, I mean, none of that -- I mean, the people there were on it all the time. And I know I was a little anal about it, because when I'd drive by and the sprinklers weren't on, I'd run in the office, What's going on? The pump is down, this is happening. But they did stay on it. And one of the problems we actually had -- and I think has been corrected before you got here -- they were cutting the grass based on their contractual need to cut 25 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 the grass regardless of whether the grass needed to be cut or not, because the outside contractor, the day to cut the grass was the day, and even though there was no grass there, I'd chase -- I didn't chase the guy, but I made him stop, because he was actually -- he was cutting dirt, and we were trying to get -- we had just seeded it. We were trying to get the grass to grow. So all that system and scheduling got straightened out, and if you drive by there today, the field is really -- it really makes you feel good to see that green. And I know football season is coming and Mike Michele is going to help us with getting the goal posts up and the Eagles will come and line the field for us and do those kinds of things. So it's all working together that makes it work. But I believe that if we can get these systems installed, we can free up our people to do other things other than maintaining sprinkler systems 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 and replacing pumps.
Which goes to my last question. With the Fox Chase experience, are they actually maintaining, paying for the maintenance of that as well?
Thank you, Councilman, and thank you for putting this bill together. It's another step towards green and greening our city, and I applaud you for your efforts. Good morning, Commissioner and respective deputies. I too want to echo how wonderful I think the Recreation Department is. In spite of respective cuts, in spite of these things, our facilities are doing their best and even doing better than just average in some 27 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 instances, and I see the use at playgrounds like the 21st Ward field or Papa Playground where active leagues are taking advantage of our facilities, and every day it keeps a kid off of the corner from doing bad things. But on the specifics of irrigation, I know the Water Department, because of testimony, is doing a lot of work in rain garden installation and retention pools and things like that. Have we put our heads together, department to department, to try to exchange information as to what some of the best practices are as we start to evolve our green fields concepts? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: We actually are and we have 11 sites, Councilman Jones, that have already had the water irrigation, the stormwater already installed. We have three sites that are under construction and we have --
Can you name 28 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 them? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Yes, I can. The ones that are completed? Whichever.
Whichever ones you choose. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Okay. 47th and Grays Ferry has been completed, Clark Park baseball court, Cliveden Park, Jefferson Square, Waterview Recreation Center, West Mill Creek tree trench, Mill Creek basketball court, Gambrell football field, Herron baseball court, Gambrell basketball courts, Fitzpatrick play area. I can give you a copy of this.
If you submit that to the Chair, we all get a copy for the Committee. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: I'll make sure I submit it to the Chair.
I would like to follow up with, how were those sites selected versus the other 200 plus sites? Were they in the greatest need? What was 29 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 the selection criteria? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: It has a lot to do with the land that surrounds it and whether or not it can capture the stormwater, the level, where the water actually runs. There's a whole lot of environmental concerns and issues that you have to take into account. And, actually, I believe that I saw Mark Focht walk in. He can probably give you a better --
I see him in the back. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: So that's some of how these sites are decided upon.
And in the future, how will they be determined? I think one of the things, worst case first, or is it going to be based on topography or whatever it is you're using by way of selection? What will be your criteria going forward? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Well, 30 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 this isn't just --
Yeah. I was getting to that. You know me, Mr. Chairman. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Yes, sir. This isn't just a decision that the Department of Recreation comes up with. We work in conjunction with the Water Department, who plays a major part in deciding where the stormwater projects are going to be. So we work together with them as well as PHS to make some determination about where we're going to actually have our projects.
Now, are you going to go with conversions or are you going to -- how are you going to move forward with this? Because I'm assuming this is cost prohibitive at this point. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: This from what I understand, if we're talking about the stormwater project for our 31 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 fields, this is just a feasibility study, not prepared to talk about how we're going forward, because this for me was just research based.
And in that research, you will be able to -- over what period of time will you determine whether it's cost effective or not? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: We have that information. Deputy Commissioner Johnson can give you that information. We've done some research on what it would cost, if you'd like for us to share that.
I would love to hear it. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We had information --
Deputy, could you please just identify yourself for the record. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Michael Johnson, Deputy Commissioner for Operations. What we looked at was the 32 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 annualized costs associated with both the passive and a simple irrigation system. We also looked at the initial installation cost, and there's also costs associated with the water and sewer connection fees associated with the simple system. So we got all that laid out in a spreadsheet, and I'd be more than willing to share that information.
Now, there's a cost associated with what we currently do, not what we might do? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we got both. We have one with the simple irrigation system and we also did some research --
When you say "simple," do you mean sustainable or do you mean a regular sprinkler system? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Just a regular sprinkler system, and then we also looked at the passive irrigation system with the stormwater feature attached to it. 33 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
But that does not include a need for sewer connection and those kinds of things? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.
It does or it does not? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm sorry. It does not, yes. So basically the price that we got was somewhere around $5 to $8 per square feet, and our average athletic facility is about 47,000 square feet.
My final question is, in the case of like Windemere, we are putting in a passive walking track. We're working with your department and your consultants to do that. In the specs of that passive walk, is this included in that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. 24
Have we given thought to that? And will you be 34 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 working with Councilpeople that are trying to do these kinds of improvements to recommend that in the future? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: This is something that we can talk about when these projects come up, because we do work closely when we're talking about doing projects in the various districts. It definitely can be part of the conversation in the future.
So are we going to wait until the results of this research and development or have we made a decision that this is the way we're going? Or where are we in the process? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: We are not making a decision today about whether or not this is going to be a practice that we're going to embark on.
And, finally, for a project like Windemere and that passive, what would be the difference in cost in maintenance if we go with it or don't go with it? Can you 35 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 give a ball park estimate annually? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: A simple irrigation system with the installation, with the water and the sewer connection is about 70,000 to install. If you go with the passive irrigation system with the stormwater management feature, you're talking about $270,000 to install. Then when you look at the annualized costs with the simple system, it's about 11,000 on an annualized basis for the connection fees, the preventive maintenance and also a conservative cost for water. So I don't have fees yet for the passive system, but that's what the regular irrigation system cost would be.
I don't know if there would be any fees. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It will.
On the passive side. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: 36 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 On the passive side, I'm not sure. On the simple irrigation side, it's about $11,000 a year.
Thank you. I would suspect, from what I've been able to gather from the research we've been doing, is that once it's in, there's no connections. It's in. And because it's a recycled material, its lifespan is undeterminable at this point. So in your analyses, if you can determine that there are annualized fees on the passive, please include them, but if they're not, then we've got to make sure we make it clear that there aren't any annualized fees. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay.
I'd like to acknowledge the presence of Councilwoman Miller and recognize her for a question. 37 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
Hi. Good morning. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Good morning.
On the first page of your testimony, one of the things that you talk about is the costs associated with maintaining the system, repairing and replacing once the warranty has expired. How long is the average warranty; do you know? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: One year, parts and labor.
Oh, one year, okay. And the other thing I was wondering, would this project -- could this project be funded, since it's green, under stimulus dollars? Have you looked into that? COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: That's something we have not looked into, but I would imagine that since this is greening and we're trying to green Philadelphia, 38 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 we would definitely look into building that in to a stimulus package.
Thank you. And I also suspect that whatever congressional representation in each district would be the Congress -- and I guess there's no -- oh, Allyson Schwartz. The Congress members would be interested in trying to maybe help us access some of that stimulus dollars for fields that happen to be in their district. So the other issue, so Councilwoman Miller raised the issue of maintenance on sprinkler heads and things, sadly we still have our problems relative to access to the field in the evening hours and you'll have irresponsible people who will decide to go on to one of our fields with a four-wheel, take out some sprinkler 39 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 heads, cause some damage, and that's an ongoing problem. And with a passive system, I don't want them riding on it either, but they're going to do less damage than they would do if they were knocking sprinkler heads over. Any other questions for this panel? (No response.)
And you looked great on the field the other night. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Say again.
You looked great on the Linc field the other night. That was you, wasn't it? I was waving to you, but you couldn't see me. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Was I really up there? 40 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
You were out there, weren't you? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Playing?
Were you out there at the Eagles game? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Not on the field.
I thought you did something before the game. That's why you didn't wave back, it wasn't you. (Laughter.)
Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER SLAWSON: Thank you very much.
The next witnesses are Christine Marjoram and Christopher Crockett from the Water Department. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good 41 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Good morning, Councilman Kenney. My name is Dr. Chris Crockett. I'm the Director of Planning and Research for the Philadelphia Water Department. I'm here to testify on behalf of Commissioner Bernard Brunwasser for the Water Department, and this is my colleague.
My name is Christine Marjoram. I work for the Philadelphia Water Department, Planning and Research. I'm the Manager of the Stormwater Management and Planner Review Group.
Good morning, Councilman Kenney and members of the 42 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. My name is Dr. Christopher Crockett, Director of Planning and Research for the Philadelphia Water Department. I am here on behalf of the Philadelphia Water Department Commissioner, Bernard Brunwasser, to testify about sustainable approaches for water irrigation systems at recreation center properties. Thank you for this opportunity to present our information. The Philadelphia Water Department is responsible for providing safe drinking water, treating the wastewater, and managing the stormwater runoff from the City. PWD is always interested in new approaches and technologies to help make our job more cost effective, easier and better for the environment. As the steward of the City's streams and rivers, we've taken an aggressive long term approach to improving the health of our streams and 43 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 rivers by developing watershed plans, increasing the stringency of our stormwater regulations for development, piloting new technologies to manage the stormwater, partnering with agencies like the Rec Department on new approaches, and examining new ways to bill for stormwater based on impervious area. Since Philadelphia is an old city -- and I'm sure Councilman Jones from the hearing this spring is familiar with all this now -- approximately 60 percent of the City's system is a combined system. This means that the stormwater and sanitary waste are combined in the same pipe. Though at the time the combined system provided health benefits to the citizens of Philadelphia, it now creates impacts on our streams and rivers. Every year approximately 17 billion gallons of combined sewer overflows discharge sewage into our local streams and rivers. PWD is embarking on a significant effort to reduce and 44 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 eliminate these overflows over the next years, and every effort counts. We 4 believe that efforts for irrigation of 5 the City's recreational centers need to 6 consider ways it can complement our need 7 for stormwater management into a more 8 overall sustainable approach for the 9 City. 4 square miles of the City, 14 with roughly a third of a square mile of 15 impervious area. These areas potentially 16 contribute 32 million cubic feet or 239 17 million gallons of runoff per year to the 18 City's storm sewer system and combined 19 system and represent an opportunity for 20 management. If we took that 239 million gallons, to give you a visualization, and we took the block of City Hall, dumped it into it, it would make the block of City Hall about 111 feet tall of water. So 45 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 we'd be 111 feet under the water here. The capture and reuse of stormwater runoff can be used as a sustainable irrigation practice. As I mentioned, there's a lot of water there. Rainwater harvesting tanks can be designed to accept runoff from impervious surfaces on a site, such as roof, pavement, et cetera, and store the runoff for irrigation purposes. Linking this concept to meeting our Stormwater Management water quality requirement would require a recreational center to infiltrate or use the first inch of runoff from all directly connected impervious areas, where feasible, on site. The potential for combining an irrigation system into a dual-purpose stormwater management system that manages that first inch of runoff could be beneficial for a number of reasons to the City. First, it reduces runoff that could lead to combined sewer overflows 46 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 into local streams and rivers. Second, it reduces the water and wastewater usage and charges by using stormwater instead of potable water for irrigation.
And, third, if the dual irrigation stormwater system manages that first inch of runoff as described above, there is potential for some partial credit on the future stormwater bills for those properties. As an example of how a recreational center can manage stormwater is the planned management system for the Simons Recreational Center. The Simons Recreational Center project utilized rain gardens and impervious disconnections to get credits for its water quality requirement. Through this approach, the site can potentially receive six percent off their impervious area bill, as well as another 20 percent off their gross area bill. Overall, this can result in a 14 percent reduction for that site's 47 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 stormwater charges. Now, imagine that if that was citywide for all those centers. In summary, the Philadelphia Water Department is a willing partner to examine looking at all sustainable ways to combine stormwater management with irrigation of the City's recreational centers. We look forward to working with City Council, the Mayor, all City agencies and our customers to utilizing the most sustainable practices to manage stormwater and conserve our precious drinking water. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your testimony. Do you have anything to add or you're here for questions?
One of the things I would like to come out of this hearing -- and I know that you're doing it. I don't know whether it's a formal basis or not, but continuing cooperation 48 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 between Park, Rec and Water relative to what your goals are in stormwater management and what our needs are in passive irrigation. Because I do think that they're a perfect marriage for lots of reasons, because we have the open space, it needs the water to create a better condition there, and we have our statutory requirements to meet when it comes to stormwater management. So I think that having some type of formal working group, if it doesn't exist already, would be really a great thing, and I'm going to probably ask the Mayor to potentially to look at that as an ongoing effort where we can get credits, reduce our costs and improve our conditions, and have a system that is low maintenance or no maintenance, I mean, I think is the best of all worlds. So I would ask that you guys think about how you would do that. Any questions from any members of the Committee? 49 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 (No response.)
Katherine Gajewski, Director of Sustainability. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning. Katherine Gajewski, Director of the Mayor's Office of Sustainability. Councilman, just a point of clarification, that was Deputy Commissioner Carlton Williams you saw on the field the other day.
I knew it was a deputy commissioner of one of our departments. I'm sorry. 50 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Please identify yourself.
Good morning, Councilman Kenney and members of the Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. My name is Katherine Gajewski, Director of the Mayor's Office of Sustainability. The Mayor's Office of Sustainability is charged with overseeing the implementation of Greenworks Philadelphia, the City's sustainability plan. Greenworks considers sustainability through five lenses: energy, environment, equity, economy and engagement. Stemming forth from these five categories, the plan is organized around 15 measurable targets and 169 specific initiatives designed to help Philadelphia reach its core targets by the year 2015. It is a plan that is ultimately as ambitious as it is comprehensive and will rely heavily on active participation and partnerships across government, as you were just 51 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 mentioning, Councilman Kenney, and beyond as we work towards making Philadelphia the greenest city in the country. The concept of installing sustainable irrigation systems at our city's athletic fields directly relates to Greenworks in two areas: First, Target 8, which is to manage stormwater to meet federal standards and, secondly, Target 9, which lays out a plan to provide park and recreation resources within ten minutes of 75 percent of City residents. Target 8 of Greenworks states a commitment to managing stormwater to meet federal standards. As Chris Crockett noted, green infrastructure solutions are emerging as a way for the City to manage stormwater. The Philadelphia Water Department has become a national leader in this regard, today submitting the country's first stormwater management plan to the EPA. Representing significant open space assets, our 275 52 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 plus athletic fields as undeveloped, pervious land can play an important role in capturing the critical first inch of runoff after a rain event. However, in order to maximize their health, quality and longevity, the fields ideally need to be watered and maintained between natural rain events. A sustainable irrigation system would not only help to care for the fields but could also serve a secondary purpose of capturing runoff from adjacent impervious surfaces to be stored and then later applied to the fields. In addition to helping stormwater management, these fields provide neighborhood green spaces and recreational amenities. Philadelphia is clearly a city that values its open spaces. Greenworks addresses the issues of equitable distribution and access and sets a goal of having all residents live within a half mile of public parks and recreation areas, which equals to about a 53 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 ten-minute walk, by the year 2025. In order to do this, we will ultimately need to create 500 acres of new space within the next seven years. These new green areas will come in many shapes and forms, from reclaimed water spaces to pocket parks. However, as we look to create and plan for these new public lands, the challenge will be to ensure that the City's already existing parks and recreation areas are well maintained. As Commissioner Slawson mentioned, given these challenging fiscal times in particular, this is no easy task, but it does not mean that we should abandon efforts to explore the potential feasibility of an irrigation system that would both improve the quality of our athletic fields while also setting them up to serve as basins in our stormwater management plan. As such, the Mayor's Office of Sustainability is willing to assist, as needed, in further investigating the benefits of such a 54 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 system.
Thank you very much. Any questions for this witness? Councilwoman Brown.
When I listen to testimony from various departments and different entities in the City, PHA, City of Philadelphia, School District and the like, I'm always anxious to discover where we might do across-the-lines opportunities. And so what comes to mind now is the School District and the City of Philadelphia with regards to this initiative. So as we look forward, I guess my question is, it may behoove us in these tough economic times to look to see where we can 55 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 minimize dollars by sharing efforts. So I'm curious to know -- and at some point we may find out -- is the School District doing this any place already? Are there opportunities for the School District and Rec to work together? Are there places in the City where you have a School District field and a Rec field in close proximity where it makes sense to have that activity? So I just put that out there in your new role when opportunities arise for us to remember to look to see where we might have some alliance activity.
Yeah, and in response to that, one benefit of having a really detailed comprehensive plan like this is, it creates a good framework and a good roadmap to start working off of. And what I'm doing now with this is really kind of taking the structure of these 15 targets and then the initiatives underneath them and starting to map out in each target area -- so the stormwater 56 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 aspect being one of them, the recreation being another -- starting to map out, starting with City government, what the lead department is, what the partnering departments is outside of City government, who our external stakeholder partners are, other agencies, including the School District, who touch on it, and starting to really map out target by target who touches it and then to formalize these working groups, which I'm calling project teams right now, that we're going to bring together to really encourage that collaboration, especially so that we're sharing expertise, we're sharing resources and we're doing a coordinated plan, especially as it relates to something as citywide and as elaborate as our stormwater management plan. I think those interconnections and relationships are really key. So we'll be looking to come to Council in the next couple of weeks to show you what we think of is this kind of 57 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 strategy and organizing structure around the Greenworks plan.
That was an excellent point made by Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, but before you leave, before you go -- (Ms. Gajewski leaving witness table.)
One of the things that I would encourage all of our departments green is the entrance to cooperation, but it is not really the final room. If we start working together, one of the things that I was encouraged by the Mayor in his campaign platform in doing was coordinating 58 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 facilities management as a whole to kind of look at neighborhoods and resources within neighborhoods, whether it's ball fields or athletic facilities, no matter who owns them, in the realm of government, quasi-government and kind of looking at them as a neighborhood asset as opposed to the individual silos in which they're housed, and in so, we might be able to have cost savings on procurement, on environmental issues and things alike. So this is the kind of thing this Council is going to give good grades for, because if we can think about it in the green sense, we can think about it in a procurement sense, we can think about it in capital purchases and improvement sense, and I think we'll all be a lot better off, neighborhoods and government, and our bottom lines by doing that. So let green be the first one, but we can look at some other areas where we can obviously cooperate in. 59 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
I think those conversations are starting to take place in a really meaningful way, so we look forward to continuing those.
I guess what caught my attention in your testimony is this Greenworks, that you have a goal, by 2025 to have people be able to walk to an open space within ten minutes, to create 500 acres of new open space. I guess I'd like to hear about that further later, not this morning, but I don't know that we as Councilmembers 60 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 are up to date on what you're actually doing in regards to this Greenworks plan, and I'd be very interested in talking to you at some point, because I actually want to know where you're going to get the money from, where you're going to find the acreage. It kind of baffles me right about now.
And speaking to that -- well, I'll start out by saying that we're planning -- we're working at the staff level to plan some briefings into the fall so that I can kind of introduce myself and my plan to all of you. But specific to that, just to make note that Greenworks, we call it a living document. So this is our starting point. This is not set in stone. We're going to take our goals here very seriously and our bottom line, but a lot of the initiatives will be tweaked over time. So that's -- this is a very aspirational document, but we want to 61 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 shoot high and shoot big. So that goal in particular ties into what will become our comprehensive planning process that will launch, I think, this fall going through the next year. So a lot of what's in Greenworks is also in other places, like the zoning code process and like the comprehensive planning process. So we'll be looking to have a fuller conversation over time about especially some of these longer term goals that are mentioned in Greenworks.
Okay. And I'm going to ask you the same question I asked the Commissioner, Commissioner Slawson, about this whole irrigation system being funded through stimulus dollars. So you guys got to keep that in mind if we're going to do this.
And I don't know of a particular recovery funding source that would -- I haven't seen one that would be applicable. The details of all 62 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 of the application streams are generally pretty strict and narrow. I haven't come across an open funding opportunity that would relate to this area, but I'll certainly keep my eyes open in case there's any new programs that open up in this regard.
These types of projects are shovel ready. So just keep it in mind.
Real quick. One of the questions I get most often from the public about these kinds of fields but also rain gardens and others, are they using a specific type of vegetation? Is that vegetation -- what's the maintenance level of that vegetation? And the third part of it is, is there an increase in insects, particularly mosquitoes? 63 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
Well, my colleagues at Rec and Water can probably speak to this in a more detailed way. I know that a lot of issues around mosquitoes in particular is standing water at the fields, which would be resolved by having more grass coverage, which kind of gets to the core of what we're talking about today. I know that there are some grass varieties that are able to retain moisture and are able to withstand heat on the other end in a more ready fashion. I don't know if you guys are planting specific types of grasses at the fields, but --
It won't be necessary for me to hear it now, but if you submit it to the Chair and get it to us, that would be helpful, because often in community meetings as we start talking about this exciting rain garden, those are the questions I get.
64 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Mr. Chairman, I'd like to take this maybe a step further and formally put on the record that Chairman Kenney and myself as Chair of this Committee will formally convene Councilmembers for a briefing on the Greenworks initiative.
Dr. Robert Traver. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good morning. Thanks for coming in. Please identify yourself for the record.
Thank you for the invitation. I'm Professor Robert Traver at Villanova University. I'm a professor 65 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 in civil and environmental engineering and Director of the Villanova Urban Stormwater Partnership, and I get mosquito questions all the time, so I'd be glad to help you with that a little bit. I appreciate being invited here today, because this is our mission. I mean, you're taking a problem and turning it into an innovative solution, which we really like. One of the hardest things about the excess volume we get from rainwater is frankly getting rid of it, and here you got a possibility of use, and I think that's a great thing. What we're doing at Villanova, we've been looking at porous concrete and porous asphalts and wetlands and green roofs. Bio-infiltration sites we've been studying about seven or eight years, and this fall we're going to be putting in a lot of rain barrels and disconnecting rooftops with stimulus funding through the Pennvest program. My 66 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 understanding -- I'm not an expert on that program, but my understanding is, there is supplemental funding coming through that, and if you want, I can try to get the contacts that I have on that for you. Basically when you're dealing -- if you go to the next slide, please, really quick, I wasn't aware of the systems that you were looking at before coming here today, but when you're looking at irrigation, first of all, you have to worry about getting the water, do you have enough water and the sources. You do have to worry about storage, because sometimes -- not this year, but sometimes it just doesn't rain and you have to tide over those particular periods. Energy is an issue. If it's sustainability, you have to look at everything, as you were pointing out several times today. And you also need to include the benefit, as talked about 67 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 earlier in the stormwater reduction in the CSO program. You have to really take a look at all aspects if you're really going to evaluate these type of systems. I've tried to pick examples as far away from Philadelphia as I could, just so I wouldn't get into any trouble of any further speakers. The bottom right is a Starbucks I visited in Austin, Texas where they're capturing runoff. The one on the upper right I like is because that is a high school and that is used for an irrigation system, and the thought process here is, why do you have a tank skinny and tall. Because maybe that's going to reduce any pumping you would have to do. It might not eliminate it, but for an example, as you were talking about partnerships, if you had a corporation building a high rise across the street, build that into the plan. You can have a passive system with sprinkler heads without using any pumps or maybe some minor alterations. 68 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 The bottom left one was the underground system. That is an example from Australia. And basically it's -- I'm not familiar with the other one you're going to be talking about today, but that's just a holding tank underground that could be put under porous concrete, porous asphalt. A lot of different systems. Or something like this could augment if you don't have enough rainwater flow in the system that you're looking at today. Obviously we know rainwater -- everybody knows, when you pave, you got a lot more runoff, and so one of the ideas behind the Philadelphia's one inch ordinance or stormwater regulations is you're really trying to make it look more like a woods. So basically just to give you a flavor of this a little bit, in a woods if you have an inch of rain, you have really no runoff. So this is kind of following this same concept. From Chadds Ford looking at 53 69 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES.
090269 years of record at Chadds Ford, for an example, generally you're only going to get about inches, except for this 5 year, of storm events greater than one 6 inch. You really don't have that many 7 large storms in the Philadelphia region. 8 You have a lot of small storms. So it 9 really makes us perfect for the green 10 roofs and this type of infrastructure. 11 In fact, using the next slide, 12 if we take a look at from the Water Department data -- they gave this to me a couple years ago -- if I look at -- I know, I keep away from grass. But if I look at capturing one inch from every storm that happens in Philadelphia, you're getting about 80 percent of the rain in a year. So that's pretty powerful for using some kind of irrigation system like this. You got a lot of different possibilities, and so there's a lot of possibilities. You can collect extra runoff from the grass, but really your 70 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 best bang for the buck is rooftops or pavements. And the nice things about rooftops we found at Villanova, they're pretty clean. Our maintenance systems we found -- we don't really have irrigation yet. Ask me in six months we'll have it, but, I mean, right now for rain gardens and our porous concrete and porous asphalt, we have very, very little maintenance. In fact, the green systems have a lot less maintenance than the hardscape type systems we've been finding. We've tried to follow the maintenance programs of the rest of Pennsylvania, which is very little in the stormwater areas. So really that's all I had, except if you had any questions. Mosquitoes, frankly, I think you're going to find a lot more mosquitoes in mud puddles on clay fields than you're going to have in an active system where birds and all the other stuff gobbling it up. Mosquito larvae, I've been told, take 71 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 about seven days, I believe, to hatch. So I would worry more about all the water in the bottom of the inlets and in mud puddles than I would in the grass system that's designed to -- the root systems keep them pretty active so you don't have as much of a problem with that.
Thank you very much for coming in and for your testimony, and what we'd like to do is make a request that we could maybe reach out to you in the future.
Villanova has been a wonderful institution in our region and we would love to have you kind of just help us along, sharing information and what your experiences have been and kind of helping us get to where we want to be.
Great. Thank you very much. 72 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Any questions for the doc? (No response.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
I'm Mark Apfelbacher, Director of Sustainability for Solution Blue.
And let me just frame the testimony. We had Dr. Traver to talk about some of the systems that they are experienced with and some of the things that he has seen, and we have Mark here to talk about 73 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 another possible solution. There's not one solution to this problem. There's all types of different opportunities and different iterations of what we can do to help us get where we want to be, but this was one that was extremely interesting to me and I wanted to give the opportunity for the Committee and for the people in attendance to hear it. So please proceed with your testimony.
Thank you for the opportunity to present our different technologies and how we work. I just wanted to start out just giving a brief introduction as to what we do at Solution Blue. I provide sustainable solutions for development. I've been working for the last 11 years in the public, private 74 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 and non-profit sectors dealing with water management and site design. I'm going to go through some of the innovative technologies, park and recreation field capabilities, touch a little bit on LEED credit contributions, as well as long-term park benefits using some of these technologies. So really what we deal with is cost-effective solutions for water management, infrastructure development and environmental process. I'm glad you guys touched on the different issues with interactions between crossing silos of the different camps who we have here in the great City of Philadelphia. So we really offer different resolutions for design and opportunities with those. I've been working -- I hail from Minnesota. So I can drop into my accent pretty quickly, if you'd like that, but I also work in the UAE in a variety of different places where it's very hot. I currently work on a variety 75 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 of projects in the stead of southwest, as well as in the midwest and over -- concerning issues at the Chesapeake Bay. So basically we understand your water management goals. We applaud sustainable approaches, utilize the water management technologies and provide an economic solution. And we really talked a lot about the costs of these both in the maintenance as well as the practical upfront costs for the installations of these technologies. I hope to address those issues as well. So what you're seeing here now is a video that describes how one piece of technology, the EPIC chamber, works as a subsurface irrigation system. Basically it's built into the green space, the landscape layer of these systems. And if you will look here, this is basically exposing the different layers we have, essentially pulling back the rind of an orange. It's a sand-based system, essentially utilizing the 76 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 microorganisms and filtering capabilities of sand. It's built into that sand-based layer. Below that is a two-inch gravel layer, which helps with lateral movement and collection of water into green spaces. Ultimately what happens in this is either we cap a site or allow it to infiltrate, depending upon what the underlying soils are and what the goals are for water management. Now, how this system works in section is that any time we'd have water coming off of impervious surfaces, whether it's your streets, your rooftops, it's routed into green spaces, and when it goes into a green space, it physically is filtered by this sand-based profile. So water actively is filtered by the actual roots and microorganisms, is routed then into the EPIC system itself. This EPIC chamber is this half moon shape, and this device actually controls how water is moved through different areas. Basically you have complete 77 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 control in how wet a soil profile is. So instead of having water just run off and polluted into our lakes, rivers and streams, what happens is, is this filters the water and retains it on the site. Now, with any system, it's also a subsurface irrigation system at the same time. So basically it's subsurface irrigation that capitalizes on capillary rise, the natural phenomenon of water moving against the flow of gravity, straight up to plants' roots. This actually has been tested by the University of New Mexico and it's been found that it's 50 to 85 percent more efficient than the top-of-the-line spray irrigation systems. So that's kind of the general overview of how this technology works, and I'll go into some more, too.
So, again, just breaking this down a little bit further, there's layers of this system, depending on what your water management goals are. Long story 78 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 short, this assists in reaching water management goals for water quality, removing phosphorus, removing nitrogen, the lightest pollutants that cause harmful downstream effects in the Delaware. Again, this system is built into that soil profile. Another technology that we utilize for recreational space durability is Netlon Advanced Turf System. Essentially, these are these small pieces of mesh blended three-dimensionally into a soil profile. What this does is, it mimics root structure of vegetation so it increases its durability. If you go to the next slide, I've got a video here, and this video is actually an 80,000-pound fire truck driving across turf grass. Now, normally they would be axle deep in this. What we're doing with this technology is both for green parking, but also for field durability. Right now I'm working on the second field for the 2010 World Cup games 79 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 in South Africa. Really what this does is, it prevents injury, increases the infiltration rate of the soil, as well as provides an opportunity to have a multi-functional use of your green space.
Just let me interrupt you for a second. Could you envision a macadam or concrete parking surface lot, utilizing that system, would be able to have the green effects and the water management effects but still have the durability to be able to have daily parking on it?
The challenge comes into the frequency of the use of it. Again, it's living grass, and what this does is, it protects the roots from getting pinched off. If you're constantly parking on top of it, what happens is, it doesn't get sunlight.
So for our daily parking situation, it's not good, but for, say, a seasonal parking situation, say something like at the Mann 80 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 where it's open for so many months, that would be --
Event parking, overflow parking, if there's an assembly, things like that, this is an excellent tool for that, and that's really what it's useful at. There's other kinds of permeable parking applications we deal with for continued parking and frequency of use. Next slide. This is just showing what it would look like without the actual Netlon product in the soil. So, again, it happens a lot in a lot of the parks. You had mentioned the four-wheelers and people running around in it. So getting straight to park and field capabilities, after introducing this technology, basically you can use less water and you can manage massive stormwater volumes in your green space but still have the function of a park. Now, what this allows you to do then is 81 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 to reuse the stormwater. I'm actively working on projects right now where we're taking stormwater coming off of CSOs, combined sewer overflows, and routing it into green space for water treatment before it's discharged. I work with the city of LA on a very large park project right now which does just that. And, again, the big thing is that multi-functional use of your green space. You're placing a premium on its function because you can do more things in your parks. This is introducing a couple different projects we have happening around the nation. The upper left is a project where we're harvesting over two million gallons of stormwater in the winter months and reusing it in the summer months. The Cambria Elementary School is located along the California coast, very seasonal rainfall, and with this we were able to size the pipe so as to hold enough water to sustain the plant 82 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 and vegetation life throughout the whole summer without any other potable resources, on an average year. Now, we can't predict how seasonality is going to change from year to year, but we can provide some kind of capacity to hold the water and reuse it. A couple other projects working with different institutions, universities and schools, and I'm glad you guys brought up before I came up the opportunities of synergies between the schools in Philadelphia, because there's a lot of really great recreational opportunities that can increase the function and provide sustainability and durability of parks with schools, too. So just to show how this technology works in terms of growing turf grass, it's subsurface irrigation, and you can't see on the bottom of this, but essentially in 35 days, given the right conditions, you can have over six inches of root growth of turf grass from seed. 83 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 Again, these are smart systems, irrigation systems, that basically irrigate when needed. We typically install these with a moisture sensor. It takes away the issues of people irrigating, over-irrigating or not irrigating. The moisture sensor says, hey, it's dry over here at this level, we need to dose some water into the site. So the computerized system automatically doses water to the optimum moisture content that's needed. This really improves the overall functionality of your irrigation system, because it's not on a regular timer. It senses how much moisture, and that's the bottom line what you need.
Hold on. Councilman Rizzo has a question on this point.
The growth, it shows the different stages of growth. Is there any -- I always wondered about PennDOT, that they grow this grass in the 84 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 center islands so it doesn't need to be cut. It only grows a certain height. Is there any way to control so it doesn't need a lot of maintenance? You may have said it and I missed it.
I deal with a lot of different grass species. My background is, I'm a landscape architect by trade, and we do have a lot of different vegetation for different design opportunities. There's a lot of grass varieties that can either be different elevations in height or require less mowing based upon what your use will be in that space. So yes is the answer to your question. There are species that you can use, depending upon where we are.
Certain grasses do better than others. 85 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
In Philadelphia, for example, would there be a window of seasonal installation for this? Does this have to be done at a certain time of the year? Obviously if the ground is frozen, it's not doable, but are there times of the year where you should do it as opposed to not doing it, if you were going to conduct a pilot program, for example?
A big thing is the use of the green space to allow it to get established, the plants themselves. With a lot of the parks I was visiting here, they're loved to death, is the challenge. Everybody uses them just too much. Now, what you'd want to do is have it so it could have instant greening or have it be functional at the complete date. That's a challenge always, but what this allows you to do is increase 86 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 the overall success of the plants because you're maintaining the moisture properly. Many times once the installation is complete, it's over-irrigated or under-irrigated and things die, and then you have to fix them.
But I guess with this example, the longest is 35 days it would have to be out of service after the completion of the work.
This project itself was an 80,000 square foot soccer field, varsity soccer field, in central California. This one took, I believe, two months.
And then 35. So three months maybe out of 87 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 commission, which isn't -- I mean, even if you sod a field with traditional sod, you still have to keep people off it for a period of time to let it take root.
And this was just with a labor crew of six people. If you had more labor crew, you could do this faster. It's quite simple to install once you have the process down.
Okay. Thank you. You can proceed. Councilman Rizzo, were you complete?
So with a lot of these, we talked about taking away the capacity of stormwater running off into the Delaware, Schuylkill River. Now, with this, there's a lot of different technologies we work with to hold water on sites, and that is contingent on the 88 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 goals we have for water management with our clients. Again, I go back to the story of Cambria where we harvested over two million gallons of water for a public project. So there are capacities out there to hold water, depending upon what we're doing. Now, with this image here, I took a park here in Philadelphia. If you could click the arrow again, please, Sarah. What happens is, we're really focusing on the green space. Now, the opportunity is, you can take the water coming off the impervious streets adjacent to that and route it into the park itself, basically filtering it. Parks can become a giant kidney that filters, store and reuse all the water coming off of your impervious surfaces, helping with water quality goals, increasing the durability and functionality of green spaces.
Does it 89 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 also keep it out -- I guess it also keeps it out of our single system stormwater drains, too?
And in certain areas of the City, we've been having -- obviously the Water Department knows very clearly -- ongoing problems with flash flooding. So your contention is that in a heavy downpour, short period of time, the majority of that water would be captured and not allowed into the normal stormwater system?
We've frequently designed these systems to have that capacity. Essentially if the field is a depressed area, you can pool water above that, and that will infiltrate as quick as you want it to or get rid of it at a slower time.
As we've been talking about cross-departmental issues, I mean, this is another one that 90 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 the Water Department has to deal with when all of us are calling, because in a two-inch rain in an hour, we have residents that are flooded all over the place, for lots of reasons, the age of the sewer system, the way people have dug -- I went to those meetings where they dug down their basements and now the stormwater inflow is easier to get into the building than it was before. So what you're saying is that in a system like this, in a residential neighborhood in Philly, with a large ball field or soccer field, you could take a lot of that rain stormwater out of the system generally?
Yeah. Correct, and slowly release it at a controlled rate.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the things that will be 91 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 helpful to this body and the Council at large and I would assume also the Administration is to get some engineers in the room with some environmentalists, botanists, this team, and quantify at what level does the investment break-even make sense and when we should infuse some capital dollars to make a system like this passive system and when there isn't enough savings to come from the diversion of stormwater and the processing that goes with it. Somebody has to give us a ruling guide that says under these square footage, this amount of gallons, this much rainfall, this is worth this investment. So that math has to be done for us so that we can be better guided as to our capital dollars and when to make improvements like that.
Well, the other issue, piggybacking on that, is is that you would think that private insurance companies that are insuring these residential dwellings that every 92 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 two years needs their basement ripped out and reconditioned and put back together again would be interested. And one of the things I would like the Water Department to do, since they're here, because we've asked the Recreation Department to maybe identify the top ten or the worst ten athletic facility fields, maybe we ought to do an additional comparison as to neighborhoods that are experiencing residential basement flooding, and maybe one of those kind of bad-conditioned fields coincides with a neighborhood that's experiencing the stormwater runoff and kill maybe three birds with one -- I don't want to kill anything. I want to solve three problems. I don't want to talk about killing. I'd be in trouble. Solve three problems with one solution as opposed to just -- what we started out was wanting to green the fields. If we can green the fields and keep people's basements dry at the same time and keep from the outlay of 93 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 insurance payments that need to be made when these events happen, I think everybody would be pretty happy.
And who knows if it fits into the stormwater credit fees as well with that whole structure. There's a lot of opportunities.
So this example project is at University of Minnesota's TCF's Bank Stadium. Minnesota Gophers just built a new LEED-certified building, and I played an active role in the stormwater management of this project. What you're looking at here in the left side is, that blue area is roughly four acres of a catchment area that's being drained into, with these technologies, a half-acre space. Now, typically there would be a storm pond on that site, because you're taking a large volume of water and you have to put it some place. 94 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 What happens is, again, going to the installation process here and the design components of this, we're able to create a functional green space that serves for stormwater management, subsurface irrigation and green parking, too. The lower right corner is the finished installation. The first game, I'm very proud to say, we play on in the next coming weeks here for the University of Minnesota, this is where all the media vans are going to pull on to and broadcast from, but it's also an active stormwater management feature at the same time. We can hold in this little half-acre space, which is near the size of some of your parks that you talked about from the sizes from the earlier testifiers, we can hold over 140,000 gallons of water. We can handle three and a half inch rainfall events from that four-acre area. So in terms of capacity of green space but still provide parking 95 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 and functionality and drainage at the same time, it's really incredible. You're doing a great resource for the green spaces. This is just showing another project we have in South Africa that's utilizing just that Netlon technology that you saw with the fire truck driving across it. The reason why we're doing this among other projects in South Africa is for the increased use during the actual events themselves, but also to provide the capacity to do other things post World Cup in South Africa. So, again, green parking is something we touched a little bit about utilizing the technologies. And LEED credit contribution, essentially with our solutions, Blue Resolutions at Solution Blue, you're going to assist in providing up to 33 credits or more. And with the new versions to get certified, it's 40 credits. So you're over three-quarters of the way there, which is a large amount 96 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 if you're looking at things before you even get in a building, even look at inside the box literally. This is outside the box, is what we're talking about here.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. What's the life of an infrastructure like that?
It's really contingent on how it's designed, but the product itself is made from plastic. Right now nothing eats plastic, even in the ground. It decays at a very slow rate. The only thing that basically breaks down plastic is physical abrasion and UV light. So once this stuff is in the ground -- it's recycled content. What happens is, it's protected. We have a depth of profile to specification based upon the manufacturer, RESI. This should last over 50 years. 97 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
If there are three enemies to this system, what are they? And I mean is it weight restriction? Is it ferreting, animals? What damage is this?
We haven't had any challenges with animals yet really because they don't go where water is and you have control of how much water is in a field. The biggest challenge we've had prior to our computerized system was mismanagement, and we've kind of closed that loop to have something that's a smart system.
Well, what happened was is, with projects we had with earlier installations, people would come and mess with the pipes, because they were still exposed. So instead of that, now we have computerized systems that automatically do it and control it by a computer instead of somebody 98 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 physically going in and changing the elevation of a pipe. A lot of times it is a paradigm shift in terms of thinking and how you're irrigating and your management practices are.
I'm sorry. Can you just kind of pull that microphone up.
Actually, if you could pull it physically closer to you, it would be helpful. Thanks.
What happens is, it's a hard thing to grasp for many turf managers, that you're irrigating while somebody is playing a game on it. So we have manuals basically to show how this can work and function with their goals. So the challenge was is that when we had issues with these projects was 99 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 that people were monkeying with it, and we've taken that out by having smart systems. The other thing was the weight load capacity. You mentioned that. Now, typically with the spec profiles we have with these, you can drive a fire truck across them with the Netlon product in it. The only other thing with it is settling of the ground. In California that's one thing, but here it's a little bit different.
So in a case where someone is trying to run a pipe through that, has that ever happened where --
Yeah. What happens is, these are not only made from recycled content, they're reusable. So what we've done before is, basically you can dig this stuff up, set it on the side, get access to your utilities, run your water main, fix whatever you have to 100 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 do with your electrical site, but then plug it back in again. It's basically Lego pieces that you can take apart and place back together.
This slide is okay. What I wanted to touch on is, we've kind of talked around some of these issues for long-term park benefits, and 2025 was the big year to have these initiatives, Target 8 and 9, as mentioned before. So the conservation reuse of water is one big benefit that I can present at this time. You're using less water. You're using other alternative resources of water. Improved park durability is huge, because you're going to have less maintenance. And I will be honest with you, the one increased maintenance you're going to have is, this stuff is going to look so good, you may have to cut it more 101 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 and you may have to aerate the grass more, because this stuff grows so well in this environment. I can't speak directly to the cost. That was one question for the Parks Department in terms of the maintenance costs on that. We can discuss more at a later time, but it really is contingent on the site and what you're doing with management. That multi-functional capability is really promoting stewardship too within the City of Philadelphia. You're reusing water, you're actively storing it, and the long-term operational savings. So kind of in closure here, this is a graphic showing traditional design with larger big box or other kinds of developments that look at just running water away. And this is not very different from what we've done with streets and street design. You get water away as fast as you can, and you have to 102 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 have storm piles that are a liability or you have overcapacity in your storm sewer system. Basically by utilization of different management practices, whether it's in your park space or green space, the verges of streets, green roofs and other technology I work with with this technology, as well as applications to sites, we can have sites that decrease their overall impact on the environment, cutting down impervious surfaces and reusing water in any living green space. So that's what I had for you today. I'd love to hear any questions.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your testimony and just very innovative and interesting process. Is the EPIC system a -- it's a sole source type of system? There's no 23 one else doing this kind of stuff?
I work with all the products across the world right 103 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 now and the EPIC is the only one that can do this right now.
No. There's other competitors that they can irrigate subsurfacely, that can drain subsurfacely. Drain tile, for example, is a common competitor, but you don't have a non-logging dual-wall subsurface drainage and irrigation system at the same time.
What was your estimated cost -- I think our ball fields generally are about an acre, which is like a city block, four block city square. Can you give me just kind of a general ball park on what that would cost?
The primary cost for this isn't the technology itself. It's -- or the design for us to figure out how this will work. It's the cost of sand, is the primary medium for 104 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 it, and soil. Sand costs vary by both trucking rates as well as availability for the specification of sand. I priced preliminarily here about $15 a yard for sand, and that was right on par with that $5 to $8 a square foot that was mentioned before.
Where is the sand obtained from generally? According to where you're at in the country?
Yeah. It's available at quarries. So, for example, in Minnesota I can get dredged sand pulled from the Mississippi River and reuse that, but when I'm working in Aspen, Colorado, I have to truck it up there to the mountains and it costs $45 a yard instead of 15.
Now, the dredged sand out of the Mississippi, are there any environmental issues associated with that or is that treated prior to?
What happens 105 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 is is that's Army Corps of Engineers does that, and that's not my thing and I would have issues with that, but it's available as a resource and has been approved.
Well, we've been talking about and getting closer and closer to the dredging of the Delaware and I'm wondering out loud whether or not there's any potential resource. Because part of the problem with the dredging project was that communities, especially in southern New Jersey, were concerned about it being trucked there and landfilled. If it's treatable and environmentally safe, it would seem that that would be kind of a close resource available of soil. I don't know what the sand quality of it is, but I know that they got to do something with it and I'm just wondering whether or not we need to explore what potential reuses of that are.
It's really contingent on the geomorphological 106 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 dynamics of the Delaware and what kind of sand profiles and where it's found in a river itself. I won't go that direction.
I'm not getting -- I'm not a scientist or biologist, but wouldn't it seem likely that the quality or type of soil would be somewhat similar since it's in the proximity of this region? If you're at Murphy Recreation Center at 4th and Shunk and the river is four blocks away, it would seem that there would be some similarities in the soil and in the dredge material that would make them potentially compatible.
Correct, potentially. The quarries that we had located were nearby too, so they would truck for a very low rate.
Thank you very much. 107 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269
Is there anyone else to testify on this? (No response.)
This was intended to be and has been an informational hearing of these two committees. We intend to issue some type of report relatively shortly and then start moving forward on the process of trying to come up with maybe a couple pilot projects that we could maybe get some assistance from the corporate community in Philadelphia. And, again, I think it's important that Water and Rec coordinate to give us some fields in need with some neighborhoods that are under water from time to time, and maybe the coordination of those two would be helpful. So thank you all for your attendance. I appreciate you coming. Thanks. 108 9/1/09 - ENVIRONMENT/PARKS - RES. 090269 (Committees on the Environment and Parks, Recreation and Cultural Affairs concluded at 11:35 a.m.) - - - 109 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on September 1, 2009, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)