COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON HOUSING, NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT AND THE HOMELESS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, June 7, 2006 4:10 p.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILL 060466 - An ordinance amending Chapter 17 21-1600 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Housing Trust Fund," to require that all Philadelphia Housing Trust Fund dollars be appropriated and expended equally between each councilmanic district within the City of Philadelphia; all under certain terms and conditions. - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good afternoon. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your patience, and we're grateful to have the opportunity to have this hearing with regard to Bill No. 7 060466. We'd like to note that we have a quorum. This is the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless. To my right is Councilman Darrell Clarke. To his right, Vice-Chair, Councilman Juan Ramos. To my left, we have Councilman Frank DiCicco. We also have here, and we're happy to have join us --
No, no. You are to my left, Councilman DiCicco. Thank you, but I was going to say we have Councilman W. Wilson Goode and Councilman Frank Rizzo. So we're happy that they are here. We do have a quorum and we're happy to begin our hearing. 3 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 We will ask the Clerk to read the title of the bill.
Bill 060466, an ordinance amending Chapter 21-1600 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Housing Trust Fund," to require that all Philadelphia Housing Trust Fund dollars be appropriated and expended equally between each Councilmanic District within the City of Philadelphia; all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you very much. The Chair would now invite the Administration to testify. While they are, we are also requesting the presence of the City Solicitor. Is the City Solicitor here? If not, we'll ask our office to call him again. Is Mr. Rosman, Deputy City Solicitor, is he here? (No response.) 4 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
We want our City Solicitor here. We have some documents that they have authored, and we are asking that they come to this hearing.
Thank you very much. We will ask you to identify yourselves for the record and begin your testimony, after which we will have many things to say this afternoon. Thank you for being here and please begin your testimony.
To my colleagues, it's in your folder. Thank you.
-- Councilwoman Blackwell and other members of City Council. I am Kevin Hanna and I serve as Secretary of the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation for the City of 5 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Philadelphia. I am here today to testify on behalf of the Administration on Bill 4 No. 060466. This bill amends the current Housing Trust Fund legislation to mandate that Housing Trust Fund dollars be appropriated and expended equally among each Council District in the City. With me today is Deborah McColloch, the Director of Housing. The Administration does not support Bill 060466 for several reasons. It upsets the consensus that was reached last year among the Administration, City Council, housing advocates and State legislators. As you know, the Housing Trust Fund legislation that was passed through State action, City Council action and mayoral action was achieved after many months of discussion and compromise. Money has been accruing in the Trust Fund only since September of 2005. The City has issued a request for proposals for housing development and has received 20 proposals from community 6 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 development corporations and other non-profit groups. These proposals are being evaluated by staff from the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation, the Office of Housing and Community Development, the Redevelopment Authority, the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative office, the City Planning Commission and the Office of Emergency Shelter and Services. As the proponents of the Trust Fund envisioned, this is an open, competitive and transparent process. Under this bill, affordable housing developments, which have all their funding identified but for the gap being filled by Housing Trust Fund dollars, may not be able to move forward because the funding for that Council District has been or may be committed elsewhere. The open and competitive process would be compromised by the proposed Council District allocation. The review committee will be 7 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 making recommendations to me as the Secretary of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation. I am certainly mindful of the need to serve all areas of the City and anticipate making awards to strong projects in a wide variety of neighborhoods. After consulting with the Mayor and the District Councilperson, my office will make a decision on project funding. In addition, certain funding for certain activities such as the Basic Systems Repair Program and Adaptive Modifications Program will be made available Citywide, based on demand from low-income homeowners. As a practical matter, it is unclear how appropriation or expenditure requirements by Council District would affect Citywide programs such as the Basic Systems Repair and Adaptive Modifications. Would an individual homeowner have to apply for a Basic Systems Repair Program grant, only to be informed that all of the funding 8 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 for their district has been committed, while a homeowner in another district would be served. The Administration also opposes this bill because it limits the City's ability to focus much-needed housing resources on the areas with the greatest needs. Demographic information indicates that there remain huge pockets of poverty and unsafe housing in concentrated areas of the City. If Trust Fund dollars were to be distributed evenly, we would quickly, I fear, run into a scenario where certain neighborhoods will be left without funds, though viable projects would otherwise be able to be built, while other Council Districts will be flush with cash due to the lack of need or proposed developments. In addition, the Law Department has raised serious concerns regarding City Council's power to take the proposed action under both the Home Rule Charter and the State enabling legislation for 9 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 the Trust Fund. The analysis raises issues in two areas.
The first area of concern is whether City Council actually has the power to make appropriations in categories beyond the, quote, lump sum, end quote, categories permitted by Section 2-300 of the Home Rule Charter. In the case of the appropriation for Fiscal Year 2007, at least, the operating budget has already been passed without any limitation by Council District. The second and more serious area of concern raised by the Law Department relates to Council's power under the Charter and State law to require the expenditure of funds. Previous City Solicitor opinions indicate that Council may not make conditional appropriations or otherwise limit the appropriation made in the operating budget ordinance. Further, the State enabling legislation for the Housing Trust Fund outlined specific areas in which Council may legislate; that is, the 10 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 portion of funds to be spent on very low income persons, the portion to be spent on housing production, the percentage of new construction housing which might be accessible, the extent to which expenditures must be limited to, quote, affordable housing, end quote, and the right to limit the cost to the consumer of housing produced with Trust Fund dollars. Act 49, the State enabling legislation, does not give Council the power to limit expenditures by Council District, and I'm quoting here from the Law Department, Because this limitation exceeds Council's power under the Charter, Bill 060466 is not a lawful exercise of Council's authority, end quote. As envisioned by the legislation, the Housing Trust Fund Oversight Committee, an advisory group having no power to spend, allocate or compel the City to spend money, that 11 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Oversight Board has made a proposal for Fiscal Year 2007 spending for specific housing programs, which has been incorporated as line items in the City's Proposed Consolidated Plan. The Consolidated Plan is before Council at this time for its review and approval. While the Trust Fund represents a new source for affordable housing development and preservation, it should be viewed in the context of all funding sources that are available to the City. One of the requirements of the Housing Trust Fund legislation is detailed annual reporting on the use of Trust Fund dollars by fiscal year, including by, quote, geographic distribution, end quote. I think that the most useful way to describe the geographic distribution in this case would be by Council District, and we will ensure that all Councilmembers are in fact fully informed about the impact that the 12 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Housing Trust Fund activities will have in their respective districts. In summary, the Administration does not support Bill 060466 and respectfully requests that it be held at this time. I will be happy to answer any questions that you or any other members of the Committee or Council might have of me at this time.
Mr. Hanna, the Chair notes that we have spoken with other members of Council who have stated that -- because we initially thought we would introduce an amendment -- that they are willing to abide by income guidelines and that they would be willing to return dollars if they did not use them or did not meet criteria within their districts. You may be aware of that; you may not be aware of that.
Actually, I was not aware of it. 13 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
But we have a few questions with regard to this, with regard to the legislation. Number one -- and we're waiting for the City Solicitor. We have a suggested amendment, a suggestion from the City Solicitor dealing with -- and I'll mention this since you reference him in your statement. And I'll read, quote, The Councilmember who represents a Councilmanic District in which expenditures from the Fund are proposed shall be consulted to determine a member's view on the proposal. So my question to you is, we who are elected -- I would like to know if we don't agree with your recommendations or of two or three people from the Housing Trust Fund who don't agree on expenditures, what is the liability, or what does that mean for our districts or the people we represent?
Relative to your reference to people on the Housing Trust 14 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Fund Advisory Board, again, their input stops, ends, their influence ends once they make the recommendation. At that point, we pick it up as far as projects are concerned and then we make a decision. So their input after that point, as far as we're concerned, will have already been considered.
Mr. Hanna, if people don't agree with how we vote, what we think or what we fund, we have offices. We're accountable to the public. To whom are the Housing Trust Fund people accountable? (Applause.)
Again, Councilwoman, the input of the Advisory Board is only on projects, and even then, it's advisory. They make recommendations. This City Council, through the Consolidated Plan, decides specifically on how much money ends up going into what line item in the Consolidated Plan. As far as specific 15 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 projects are concerned, again, those projects go through an RFP process. A committee that consists of --
And how does Council know who were sent RFPs, Mr. Hanna? We don't know that either.
The RFPs are advertised to the world, to the entire City of Philadelphia.
If anybody here has been given a copy of who was sent an RFP, please let me know.
No, Councilwoman. We didn't send RFPs to anybody. We advertise RFPs. People are open -- anybody can respond to a request for proposal. We didn't necessarily send RFPs to anyone. We simply advertised that this money is available and based on this criteria, you can propose to try to get some of this money. Once those proposals are submitted to my office, a committee is formed, in fact has been formed, a 16 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 committee of housing specialists from the Office of Emergency Services, from the Redevelopment Authority, from my office, from several offices, all with housing expertise. No one from the Affordable Housing Coalition, no one necessarily from Council. These are folks who are staff. We do this with most RFPs that are issued. That committee then makes its recommendation to me as the Secretary of Housing. I take that recommendation -- and, in fact, you'll notice it. This is outlined in my testimony. I take those recommendations and I make a recommendation to the Mayor. I then would propose -- remember, none of this money has been spent. I would propose, pursuant to my testimony, to sit down with the respective District Councilperson to get their input.
No, no. No 17 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 decision has been made.
No decision has been made. I'm talking about proposals, proposals that were provided to us in response to a request for proposals.
Let me ask the question another way. I received, after I complained, I received a list of projects and money that was decided they would receive in terms of funding for the Housing Trust Fund.
There are lists of projects that you proposed to fund out of the Housing Trust Fund.
Can I clarify that just one minute? If it's the piece of information that I think you're talking about, what was really provided to you was a list of those developers, not-for-profits, who have submitted 18 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 proposals who have responded to the request for proposals. No decisions have been made on that list. The committee --
I note that the First District was omitted, the Fourth District was omitted, the Sixth District was omitted, the Ninth District was omitted, and the Tenth District was omitted. Are you telling me that they have no low-income people and people who live there don't meet criteria?
That's not what I'm telling you. I am telling you that, Councilwoman --
You're telling me nobody in their district applied for dollars?
What I am telling you is that we sent out an invitation, a request for people to submit proposals. 19 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 We can't control -- we don't control who responds to that request. Like I said, we did not send specific RFPs to specific people. We simply advertised to the Philadelphia world that this money was available. The list that you have represents those organizations who have projects that are close to being ready for funding, projects that would, in their view, qualify for the Housing Trust Fund.
Mr. Hanna, who makes decisions? Again, you want to decide what projects are ready for funding and what projects are not. Who makes that decision? Are we not the elected officials who have a right in our districts to decide who gets funding? (Applause.)
You're telling me about projects that are ready. I have a letter from 20 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Mr. MacDonald. I'm glad he's here, because in his statement he talks about his right and the Housing Trust Fund's right to make decisions. I have his document. And he talks about the geographical basis that he chose in terms of who should be funded. And I'm still trying to figure out under whose authority do you have a right to decide for Councilpeople, who are accountable by the people and who are elected, all these housing dollars. And this is from Mr. MacDonald, Board President, Philadelphia Association of CDCs. Who are you folks to decide who gets funded in my district and other districts around the City? (Applause.)
How do you decide income? Who told you what project is ready? And if you decide what project is ready, who gives you the authority to make decisions on who's funded, and what if we don't agree? What 21 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 if some association is not available or they're on vacation? Where does the community appeal if they disagree with whatever your decisions are, you and about two or three people, with regard to funding? We need some information, Mr. Hanna. (Applause.)
And we're not talking about pennies. We're talking, by the end of '07, we're talking $26 million. I think we're elected. I think we have a right to decide where $26 million gets spent. We're accountable by the people. We're here every day. Somebody is in offices of people who aren't there. What if somebody is not around, some CDC? Where does the community appeal if some group who has decided what monies they want spent where -- forget the districts they left out -- what does the community do? Where do they go? (Applause.) 22 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 MS. McCOLLOCH: Excuse me. My name is Deborah McColloch. I am the Director of Housing for the City of Philadelphia. The process that we used for the Housing Trust Fund request for proposals is the same process that we have used for many years under the Community Development Block Grant, and that is what was established in the ordinance and also in the Mayor's Executive Order that established the Housing Trust Fund. The ordinance and the Executive Order both call for an open and competitive process, and we agreed that we would use a request for proposals process, which is very similar to exactly how we've done Community Development Block Grant funding for many years.
Ms. McColloch, are you saying that people who are low income, none of them live in the First, none in the Fourth District, none live in the Sixth, none live in the 23 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Ninth or none live in the Tenth? MS. McCOLLOCH: No, I'm not saying that.
Well, that's a list of those people, the districts, that were left out of this funding. MS. McCOLLOCH: For this round, the first round of funding for the first request for proposals that was issued, there's $6 million available, and 13 organizations chose to respond to the 14 RFP. That does not say that there are 15 not low-income people in the other 16 districts. It says that organizations 17 did not choose to respond to the request 18 for proposals. 19 I anticipate issuing -- 20
How did you decide how much money people got who applied? MS. McCOLLOCH: We haven't made any decisions yet about how much money people will get. We simply -- 24 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
But we have a list of how much money, from 150,000 to a million dollars. That's what people are listed here allocated for this money. MS. McCOLLOCH: No, no. That's what the request is. I don't have the list in front of me, but ABC Development Corporation requested $500,000 to support its housing development, whatever was submitted, whatever their proposal is. That list is not allocations. That's a list of requests submitted in response to the RFP.
Is this a total list? Because it is ironic that you had $6 million and this is around 5.5. That's all the -- MS. McCOLLOCH: No. I think it's --
Well, then I don't have the list. I have a list that comes to something like 5.55 million. 25 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 MS. McCOLLOCH: I believe that list comes to million. There are three 4 different categories, and if you add up 5 the bottom total of each category, I 6 believe it's about $8 million. I could 7 get the exact number for you. 8
Well, I believe that Councilpeople would like to know in their respective districts who applied for money and who is slated to receive money. Who are three or four people to make those decisions? I still come back to the same issue, that three or four people do not Citywide have a right to make a decision for some $20 million a year. (Applause.)
And this is why we ask that the money be divided, and this is why -- and we'll ask our City solicitor if he will come to the table. This is why we want to have this discussion with regard to a 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 statement we received by Mr. Rosman, but more than that, an e-mail that he submitted regarding the Housing Trust Fund that says, "The Councilmember who represents the Councilmanic District in which expenditures from the fund are proposed shall be consulted to determine a member's view." So consultation is one thing, but having the authority to make decisions is another. So we'd like to ask our City Solicitor -- and I understand this was received after I approached my colleague, Councilman Clarke, who wants to transfer money. In the next hearing, he wants to transfer. And I apologize, Councilwoman Krajewski. Because I told her we'd try to get through this, and I don't know how we get through this now more quickly. More people are asking to testify, unless somehow we could legally join committees together, then we could do that, because 27 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 we do have a joint hearing next. But we're concerned about the authority of Council and the e-mail we have that says that we may be consulted for our views. And we wanted to ask you to explain that, what Council's authority is in this e-mail. If you would do that, that would help us to move from here.
Madam Chairwoman, Romy Diaz, City Solicitor. Let me try to separate two questions that I think you've asked so that hopefully we can try to unconfuse this a little bit. I understand this is an important and somewhat charged issue, but you're addressing two points that I'd like to try to clarify. The first is the question relating to the authority of Council to allocate, as the bill before you would require, to allocate the Housing Trust Fund dollars equally among ten Councilmanic Districts. There is an opinion which was provided to your office 28 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 and to other offices that have requested it which basically concludes that is outside the authority of Council to do. There is a clear process for appropriations laid out in the City Charter, and that process does not contemplate the kind of detailed allocation of funds by Council as part of the appropriations process, and we believe that the bill before you and the Committee members is outside the scope of Council's authority. Separate from that issue, I understand, and I step into this with some trepidation, but separate from the earlier issue about Council authority is a question of what type of consultation and involvement in the advisory process currently laid out in the Mayor's Executive Order related to the Housing Trust Fund is appropriate. I understood that Councilman Clarke -- and I don't speak for him, but this is my understanding -- that Councilman Clarke 29 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 had drafted some language to share with the Chairwoman of the Committee related to how could more input from Councilmembers be developed as part of the process laid out in the Executive Order. I believe the e-mail that you referred to addresses at least a recommendation or at least an idea for how that involvement might be increased. But I don't want to suggest that that is an official proposal or recommendation either from myself or the Law Department or, for that matter, from the Administration. I understood this to be a discussion among colleagues. This is an option that has been put on the table, as I understand it.
Is it your understanding, Mr. Diaz, that the process for the Housing Trust Fund dollars is that the Housing Trust Fund meets and makes recommendations to the Office of Housing and Community Development without direct input from 30 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Councilmembers, other than the one representative on the Housing Trust Board?
It is my understanding, and only that, that there is an Advisory Board which has been established as part of the Executive Order process. It is a mechanism, certainly not an exclusive mechanism, for receiving Council views about how the allocation of dollars should be made. I believe what I heard from Secretary Hanna and Director McColloch was that in fact there is a very wide-ranging process for soliciting input from the community. Part of that process includes a competitive request for proposals so that we can determine how to use scarce dollars most effectively. There is a process which is laid out as part of the Consolidated Plan for Year 32, which is the subject of a public hearing, I believe, tomorrow to solicit citizens input, as to how some of these dollars 31 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 would be spent. There's certainly, it seems to me as part of any well thought out development project, an opportunity for Councilmembers to be directly engaged as part of the discussion, the normal give and take with the Administration about how projects should be developed in the City and how the scarce dollars should be made. So I hope that I'm giving the impression, because I intend to, that the Executive Order lays out a process for allocating the dollars from the Housing Trust Fund, which for the very first time are being made available for development within the City of Philadelphia, but it certainly, to my understanding, is not intended to be an exclusive mechanism for soliciting or receiving Councilmanic opinions about how projects should be developed with respect to Housing Trust Fund activities.
Well, 32 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 certainly -- point of information, Mr. Goode.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Solicitor, you're clearly referring to the Executive Order within your remarks and somehow differentiating it from the ordinance. Why is that?
You were clearly referring to the Executive Order within your comments and differentiating it from the ordinance. Why are you referring to the Executive Order rather than the ordinance?
In terms of the question I believe that was put to me by Councilwoman Blackwell, I understood it to refer to the Advisory Board process which was established under the Executive Order. I was trying to address that issue. But with regard to the ordinance, I take it you're referring to the Housing 33 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Trust Fund ordinance that was passed last year? I certainly didn't intend to in any way suggest that that ordinance is not an important element in terms of trying to determine Councilmanic views with regard to Housing Trust Fund projects. So there was no intention to suggest for any reason that the ordinance 10 was not a part of the thinking process about how the Housing Trust Fund dollars should be spent.
One quick follow-up. Where the ordinance and Executive Order is consistent is use of the term "the Office of Housing and Community Development." If that office changes to the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation, how does that affect the ordinance and Executive Order?
Well, I think it's not unexpected that there are frequently name changes and successor organizations to organizations mentioned in legislation or executive orders, and I would 34 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 anticipate that should there be some change down the road that either affects terms used in either the ordinance or the Executive Order, that decisions would be made at the time, judgments would be made about what the intended consequences of that with regard to how the ordinance or the Executive Order would apply.
Well, clearly, the Mayor can sign a new Executive Order or amend his own Executive Order by a stroke of a pen, but to amend an ordinance, it has to be done through Council. So if you change the Office of Housing and Community Development to the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation, do you in fact have to amend the ordinance for the Housing Trust Fund, legally? (Applause.)
I believe subject to check, Councilman -- I would be happy to provide this in writing to you and the members of the Committee -- I believe 35 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 subject to check that if there is an officially designated successor organization, that the responsibilities of the Office of Housing and Community Development as intended to be referred to in the ordinance, that those responsibilities would be assumed to be part of the responsibilities of the successor organization. But I'll be happy to --
Who determines whether the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation is actually a successor organization to the Office of Housing and Community Development as it relates to the ordinance?
I think what we'd have to do -- and we're talking in very conceptual terms, and I understand why you have this interest, but talking in very conceptual terms I think doesn't give us an opportunity to reflect exactly what the mission and purpose of a potential successor organization might be 36 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 and how that relates to the ordinance. I'd like to, frankly, defer an opinion with regard to that hypothetical successor organization until I saw what it had to do and could make a determination whether in fact it was a successor to OHCD within the scope of the ordinance that you referred to.
Let me clear it up a bit by actually citing the ordinance. In Section 4 of the ordinance 13 where the Philadelphia Housing Trust Fund Oversight Board is created, it says, "Council called upon the Mayor to establish a Housing Trust Fund Oversight Board to make recommendations to the Office of Housing and Community Development," and it goes on. So the ordinance actually reads that Council calls on the Mayor to establish a Housing Trust Fund Oversight Board to make recommendations to the Office of Housing and Community Development. What if Council does not 37 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 call on the Mayor to establish a Trust Board to make recommendations to the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation?
The question of the authority to establish agencies, organizations within the City government within the executive and administrative branch, I think is pretty clearly within the Mayor's authority under the City Charter, and with or without a request from Council, I believe the Mayor certainly would be authorized under the Charter to establish the Office of OHNP. I believe that the Mayor would be within his authority via Executive Order to establish any advisory board, such as the one that you're referring to under the Executive Order, which he has so established.
I agree the Mayor under the Home Rule Charter has the authority to establish an agency. I agree the Mayor under the Executive Order 38 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 has the authority to establish an advisory board however he'd like. What I disagree with is whether the ordinance is affected by changing the Office of Housing and Community Development to the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation. In fact, for the purpose of the ordinance, Council passed the ordinance in a way it intended to pass the ordinance a year ago. If something changes within that, then it's changed and it's not what Council passed. So my question really is whether the ordinance has to be amended to reflect that change based upon what Council's legislative intent was. Council's legislative intent a year ago was not to have the Mayor form a Trust Board to make recommendations to the Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation. That was not Council's intent.
With all due respect, Councilman, let me try to give 39 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 you as candid and as honest an answer as I can now, and I'm happy to expand upon it for the record. But if it is outside the scope of Council authority to direct reorganizations and agencies within the executive and administrative branch, it would be my tentative opinion, subject to check, that insofar as an ordinance would presume to restrict the Mayor's authority under the Home Rule Charter, that that provision would be unlawful. I don't believe that the ordinance is unlawful and I would have to interpret its intent within the scope of the Council's authority under the Home Rule Charter, and it would be likely that I would find that a successor organization having responsibilities of a similar nature as OHCD would have the responsibility for carrying out the purposes of the ordinance. But subject to check, I think this deserves a little more thought, and 40 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 I'd like to provide that response for the record, but that is my candid and immediate response to your question.
Just to ask in context, further context to this. The local legislation with regard to Housing Trust Fund had to be in concert with State enabling legislation, which requires the creation of the Housing Trust Fund to be done by ordinance. In other words, the Housing Trust Fund as it is constructed could not be created by executive order. It can only be created by ordinance, which means that Council had to create it per the State enabling legislation.
Which means that the ordinance under State law supersedes any executive order, and the ordinance has to be in concert with Council's legislative intent a year ago or it has to be amended.
I believe, 41 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Councilman, that I will just simply reaffirm what I have previously stated, that if it is outside the scope of Council's authority under the Home Rule Charter, such as to direct the Mayor in connection with his Charter-given responsibilities to effect reorganizations, then what I am concluding is that the ordinance which authorizes the Housing Trust Fund to be created in the City of Philadelphia pursuant to State enabling legislation I do not believe can properly make decisions and give direction with regard to matters which are assigned under the Home Rule Charter exclusively to the Mayor.
We are in no 20 way trying to direct the Mayor. We are directed by State enabling legislation to create an ordinance if we so choose to create a Housing Trust Fund. We created an ordinance. At this point, this is not a matter of directing the Mayor and 42 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 implementation of the ordinance. I'm referring to the actual ordinance that was created. And whether Council's legislative intent, which, in essence, created a Trust Board for a specific purpose, if that purpose is changed, whether you consider it to be a successor organization or not, if that purpose is changed, the State enabling legislation gave Council the authority to create the Trust Fund by ordinance.
I don't disagree with the responsibility for implementation at the local level to be done via ordinance, as required by the State enabling legislation. You and I have common ground on that, Councilman.
Thank you very much, and I thank my colleague for those references. You also reference the Community Development Block Grant application, whose public hearing we'll 43 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 have tomorrow, but in that application, these funds are listed under Office of Housing and Neighborhood Preservation. Now, one of the reasons we're having this whole discussion is because were it just renaming, but when 50 percent of the workforce received notices that they're being laid off, then it's not just a renaming. (Applause.)
So when my colleague talks about the purposes, when we talked about creating enabling legislation on our level to create a Housing Trust Fund and a Housing Trust Board, we did not anticipate that 50 percent of the people who work for housing agencies would be laid off so that they could create something new and people wouldn't even be here to administer who knows what programs, because who knows what people will be doing, where they'll be and how programs will be implemented. 44 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 That's part of the issue here today and part of why we raise these questions about who has what authority. And certainly we are concerned about who has the authority to make decisions under this Board, because when Council agreed to create a Housing Trust Fund, we did not anticipate that its purpose would be narrowly interpreted or narrowly defined -- I'll ask you for that -- as a Board where some two or three people make decisions on $20 million a year and we have no right, only to review or to give input. That wasn't our intent at all. (Applause.)
Councilwoman, I understand that this is an issue that you and Secretary Hanna and Director McColloch have discussed on numerous occasions, and it is not strictly a legal issue. Having said all of that, with some trepidation, if I could just respond. The issue related to the 45 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 reductions in federal monies for Community Development Block Grants is affecting the City of Philadelphia and every metropolitan area, every city around the country, and it is my understanding just as a member of this Administration and interested bystander, it's my understanding that the effort associated with the reorganization is not related to an attempt to lay off people. In fact, it's just the opposite. The issue is whether the housing programs of the City of Philadelphia will, frankly, suffer death by a thousand cuts or there is an opportunity to make some changes now to address what the funding reductions at the federal level are. So I am not aware that there is any effort within the Administration to lay people off associated with the application for the Community Development Block Grants.
Is there any further questions for the City Solicitor? 46 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Councilwoman Reynolds Brown.
Thank you. Good afternoon. My question is directed to Secretary Hanna or Director McColloch. In your testimony, you mention what the Advisory Board cannot do, and you state the advisory group having no power to spend, allocate or compel the City to spend money. So then please define for me what is the role of the Advisory Board. MS. McCOLLOCH: The Oversight Board makes a recommendation to the Administration of what the overall budget allocations for the Housing Trust Fund should be. That recommendation for allocating the budget is included in the Consolidated Plan, which is submitted to City Council for its review and approval prior to submitting it to HUD. So the Oversight Board recommends -- and I'm using this hypothetically, for example -- to put $1 million allocated for affordable rental housing production and 47 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 $2 million allocated for Basic Systems Repair and $500,000 allocated for homeless prevention programs and so forth. It recommends large budgetary categories that then get included in the Consolidated Plan that are brought to this body for review and approval prior to submission to HUD.
And so if we accept the City Solicitor's opinion as true, with all the categories you just mentioned, there is no mention of Councilmanic District. It is purely the category and the dollar amount, correct? MS. McCOLLOCH: Correct.
Now, there's a step before recommendation in any process. Describe for us what the steps are before you move to the step of recommendation to the Administration. There are things that happen before you can get to a recommendation phase. MS. McCOLLOCH: For recommending the budget? 48 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
Yes. MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. The Oversight Board composed of eight members, as established in the ordinance 6 and the Executive Order, discuss the budget, discuss the budget categories --
Yes, but they discuss that based on what? Based on what type of information do you use that then moves you to the recommendation stage?
When you say "recommendation," Councilwoman, there are two recommendations that are made. One by the Advisory Board to me.
Right, to the Administration. Another is the recommendation -- as Deborah said, that's a broad categorical type of budgetary spending, how much to Basic Systems, how much to affordable rental, how much to affordable for sale. 49 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 There is another recommendation that's made for another chunk of money, if you will, the money that would go to individual projects, the type for which we issued an RFP here recently. There, for instance, the RFP went out for affordable rental. People who had affordable rental deals responded to that RFP. Those responses are then reviewed by a review committee. That review committee recommends projects, again, to the Secretary. So that's why again I asked the question are we talking about -- you're referring now to the recommendations made by the review committee, review committee made up of staff, on individual projects or are you talking about the recommendations by the Oversight Committee to us as to broad categorical methods of spending money?
My question was to the latter, to the recommendations made by the Housing Trust 50 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Fund Oversight Committee. So I better understand what happens there. With regards to the RFP process, clearly, we know that in the ten Councilmanic Districts, needs are going to vary district by district. The level of these type of programs in one Councilmanic District is going to vary greatly depending on others, because that's simply the makeup of the City. So when you do the RFP process, then do you take that fact into consideration in the award process? MS. McCOLLOCH: The RFP process is only for specific budget categories of the overall Housing Trust Fund budget. The Housing Trust Fund budget includes a proposed allocation for Basic Systems Repair, for example. That's a Citywide program that's not included in the RFP process. The RFP process is for the affordable rental production, the neighborhood-based homeownership production and the new construction 51 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 homeownership construction. So the RFP that was recently issued for which we received the 5 proposals, the list of which you've seen, 6 was for the $6 million allocated for 7 rental, homeownership and new 8 construction. That's only 6 million out 9 of the overall Housing Trust Fund budget 10 that included Basic Systems Repair, 11 Adaptive Modification, homeless 12 prevention and so forth. 13 The Oversight Board, after 14 making those large budgetary 15 recommendations that for FY06 were 16 approved through the Consolidated Plan 17 process, then the Oversight Board no 18 longer has a role in the decision-making 19 or even making recommendations. 20 The Oversight Board did review the request for proposals, the RFP that was issued. The RFP was issued by the Office of Housing and Community Development. We advertised widely. We sent out notices. We put it on the web, 52 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 so on and so forth, and then we received the proposals. 4 Those 20 proposals are being 5 reviewed by that internal staff committee 6 that Kevin referred to, and that staff 7 committee will make a recommendation to 8 Kevin of how the $6 million that's 9 available should be allocated amongst the 10 20 proposals that were submitted. 11
Questions 14 from this Committee? 15 Councilman Goode, please. 16
Thank you. 17 Mr. Hanna, in your testimony, 18 you stated that the Administration does 19 not support Bill 060466 for several 20 reasons. "It upsets the consensus that was reached last year among the Administration, City Council, housing advocates and State legislators." Can you explain that consensus process and who actually was involved in 53 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 it? Because you actually reference City Council, but I don't remember a consensus process.
I'll ask Ms. McColloch to chime in here, because she was actually more intimately involved than I was. That process involved a group of affordable housing advocates making several trips, making who knows how many phone calls to me, who knows how many letters to Harrisburg encouraging State legislators to enact legislation that would enable the City to create a Housing Trust Fund, because as you knew -- well, last year, the City, even if it wanted to, could not enact --
Mr. Hanna, I'm very familiar with the process towards establishing a Housing Trust Fund. I'm referencing your testimony where you said it upsets the consensus that was reached. What consensus was reached and who was it reached by? 54 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Because you reference the Administration, City Council, housing advocates and State legislators. I'm assuming that would include me as a member of Council. I don't remember the point a consensus was reached. I don't know who determined that a consensus was reached. I don't know what the consensus was that was reached.
The consensus that I referred to refers to, as far as City Council are concerned, Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown. Those two people were the point people with whom we, the Administration, the affordable housing advocates, for lack of a better term, negotiated during the time that we were trying to create the Housing Trust Fund.
So it should read a consensus was reached last year among the Administration, Councilwoman Blackwell, Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, housing advocates and State legislators. 55 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 You included me in a consensus that I was not included in.
Thank you. Then you go on to say, "As you know, the Housing Trust Fund legislation that was passed through State action, City Council action and mayoral action was achieved after months of discussion and compromise." Who was involved in discussion and compromise?
Again, from the City Council standpoint, Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown.
I've sat here next to Councilwoman Blackwell. She said that she didn't agree to the same consensus as you --
I'm sitting here next to Councilwoman Blackwell. She 56 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 obviously doesn't agree that you agreed to the same consensus or the same compromise. She feels that there was a different opinion of what was supposed to happen versus what is happening now. So who am I supposed to rely upon, when your testimony says I was part of a consensus that I was not part of, I was part of a discussion and compromise that I was not part of? I was definitely part of City Council action. I voted for an ordinance. As far as I know -- (Applause.)
-- this has nothing to do with consensus. It has nothing to do with discussion and compromise. There are three actions that were taken. There's a State law, there's a local law, there's an Executive Order. So what's all this talk about consensus, discussion and compromise?
That talk involves, Councilman, discussion, again, with the affordable housing advocates, 57 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 representatives of City Council -- no, we didn't talk to every member. We talked to the specific members to whom I've referred. Discussions with those Councilpersons. It was our understanding that those Councilpersons spoke on behalf of City Council. If that was an erroneous assumption on our part, then I'll take the blame for that.
Let me tell you what's erroneous. What's erroneous is to try to suggest the Housing Trust Fund was created through consensus, discussion and compromise as opposed to being created through a State law, a local law. The State enabling legislation created the opportunity for us to pass a local law.
As far as I'm concerned, the Housing Trust Fund was 58 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 created by City Council.
The Chair neglected to note the presence of Councilman Frank DiCicco and Councilwoman Donna Miller. All members of this Committee are here. And we would also like to note that the joint hearing on Appropriations and Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless that is due to be scheduled today after this for Bill 18 No. 060475 will be continued until 8:00 tomorrow morning. So having said that, we will continue this hearing on Housing, Neighborhood Development and Homeless dealing with our bill, which is how monies are spent. And to follow up on some questions raised by my colleagues, 59 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 as Chair of the Housing Committee, I'm a member of the Housing Trust Fund, and obviously if we thought that Council were included in decisions, we wouldn't be having these decisions. Five districts are left out. There are only ten of us. (Applause.)
And five districts are left out of the equation, and we didn't think that was fair. We wondered why they weren't included. And our question again is, if our constituents have some questions with regard to who was funded and who was chosen, does the -- I'll ask this of Mr. Diaz. Maybe this is a legal question. If the Housing Trust Fund through its two or three people who are on the community development side, not the housing agency side, if members of the community or any other community organizations who are not chosen have some question about the group or those 60 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 groups who were funded according to this chart, what recourse do they have with these organizations who are picked for funding as opposed to their elected officials? What can a community group do with other community organizations being picked for funding? What recourse do they have?
Councilwoman, I'm not sure that it really is a legal question, but let me try to be responsive. It's my understanding that the process by which City Council has established the approval process for the grant applications with respect to Community Development Block Grants includes a requirement for public hearings. It's also my understanding, as I think it was mentioned earlier in other questions, that Housing Trust Fund dollars are included, if I believe Director McColloch's testimony, if I 61 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 recall it correctly, that Director McColloch said that Housing Trust Fund dollars are incorporated into the overall plan associated with the proposal before Council. It seems to me that there is an up-front opportunity through the competitive bidding process for community groups to be very much involved up front in proposing projects and dollars to be associated with those projects for funding. Secondly, it seems to me that through the Advisory Board, which is established under Executive Order, there is certainly an opportunity for the views of Councilmembers and certainly the Chair of the Housing Committee directly to be heard. There is an opportunity, through the approval process associated with the filing of the federal grant application, for views to be heard. So it seems to me both before even recommendations are developed about 62 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 the expenditure of Housing Trust Fund dollars and during the review process associated with those recommendations and following decisions on those recommendations but before Council approval of the applications filed on behalf of the City of Philadelphia with the federal government, that there is ample opportunity for views to be heard. And so I don't know what else you're looking for in connection with a legal response, but it seems to me that I believe this process is one that incorporates significant public input, certainly opportunity for Councilmanic input. Whether there is a desire or a need for additional Councilmanic input, that's a public policy issue and I won't address that.
Mr. Diaz, I wish it were as you just stated, but it is not. We have -- (Applause.)
We 63 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 have a Board that decides who gets funding and informs those organizations who they are, so that if there is some problem in the community with regard to who was chosen, then the elected officials have to argue with those people in the communities and they put themselves at a disadvantage because of the decisions of some two or three who have been e-mailing everybody every day. (Applause.)
I would note to my colleagues that all of the e-mails and flyers you received are never sent to me, and I'm on the Board, by other members of the Housing Trust Board. They're only sent to my colleagues to try to pressure me not to speak out. Let me tell you, if other groups are funded by two or three and if those people have the right to choose who's funded in our communities, then what makes you think they won't decide 64 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 who also runs for office and who has the right to sit here and have this discussion in the first place? (Applause.)
It is our responsibility to protect and provide for the public trust. The process that has evolved with the Housing Trust Fund is not one that provides for that. We have been told that the Housing Trust Fund has a discussion. And, Mr. Hanna, maybe you can explain to me if I'm wrong. The Housing Trust Fund makes recommendations that go to OHCD; is that not correct?
There are two types of decisions that need to be made, Councilwoman. On projects such as those for which we issued an RFP recently, those proposals come back to the Office of Housing and Community Development, you're right. A committee is then put together of staff people, all of whom 65 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 have housing expertise and a housing background. That committee makes a recommendation to me. I have a discussion with the Councilperson and the Mayor, and then a decision is made.
So it, frankly, becomes doubly insulting. Number one, we have no input in the beginning. Number two, you propose to reorganize, so we won't have OHCD. We'll have OHNP, with 50 percent of the people laid off who even work for housing. We don't even know what agency will exist. (Applause.)
So in addition to this whole issue of union busting, which is what we're doing -- (Applause.)
-- I would say to my colleagues -- because 50 percent of the people have been told through their union representatives -- by law, they have to give them a 30-day notice -- that they'll be laid off, and 66 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 people will be told, whomever they are and however Mr. Hanna and the Administration chose to work it out, some people will be told to come back. I guess others won't. We don't know what at benefit levels. They lose their pension. They lose their vested time, in spite of the fact that from the beginning employees have said and unions have said they were willing to talk about co-pay and willing to talk about streamlining our housing reorganization. We have a hearing tomorrow. We will deal with housing reorganization in detail in that regard, but I have to -- (Applause.)
I had to mention it as it refers to this whole issue of what happens to Housing Trust Fund dollars, because at this point, we don't know who will be in place to process these dollars. So we lose on both ends. We lose at the beginning, because this Housing Trust Fund that is 67 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 staffed -- I'm the only Councilperson on it, and I have no real input. And then on the other end of it, we don't know who will even be there to process what funds and what that process will be. So we lose on the front end and we lose on the back end, and those issues -- and only five districts so far were included, because as the Philadelphia Association of CDCs said, they chose who was worthy. They chose who was low income. They chose who meets the criteria, and I don't think they have a right to do that. (Applause.)
Councilwoman Miller had a point of order. Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Oversight Board just makes recommendations; that's correct?
Other than, I guess, if Councilmembers -- we 68 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 have to think of some way to have Councilmembers be a part of input into what's happening on the Housing Trust Board. So what is the mechanism set up? If I have an idea, if I have some criteria I'd like to see included or deleted or added, what do I do? Help me. Do I contact Councilwoman Blackwell, who is the Council rep on the Board? Do I contact you? How do we have input? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry. I just want to make sure I understand the question. How would you have input on what the budget category should be?
Well, that could be one. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay. I would say you could contact any member of the Oversight Board. You could attend an Oversight Board meeting. You could participate in those sets of discussions. If you had an idea about a specific development, that would have to come in through the request for 69 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 proposals. An organization would have to submit a proposal for whatever the development is for which you have an idea. So that would come in through the organization that's responding to the RFP.
I haven't read line by line the Executive Order or the State enabling legislation. Is it clear in any of those documents how Councilmembers will be included in this, in the State enabling legislation or the Mayor's Executive Order, the ordinance 15 that Council passed to create the Housing Trust Fund?
I believe that basically the State enabling legislation addresses how the governing body, in this case City Council of Philadelphia, is involved both in establishing the Housing Trust Fund and affordable housing programs. It also indicates in connection with the types of monies to be spent for affordable housing what the 70 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 criteria are. It indicates, for example, that a City of the first class may by ordinance dedicate a portion of the funds allocated to benefit certain households related to income levels, that a City of the first class may by ordinance dedicate a portion of the funds allocated to certain other kinds of programs described in the legislation. It describes programs related to visitability and accessibility that by ordinance Council may direct its attention, and it also talks about restrictions as to certain kinds of monies that may be raised related to these programs. There are numerous additional areas where the State enabling legislation indicates that on a programmatic basis; that is, not on a project-specific basis, but on a larger programmatic approach on how the program of affordable housing is to be delivered, there is a voice, if you will, for City Council. It also indicates the criteria 71 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 by which affordable housing projects are to be decided. So there are, I would say, substantial numbers of references to City Council and how its authority may be felt as part of the affordable housing programs of the City of Philadelphia. And I'll stop there in case -- I just want to make sure I'm addressing your question, if you have any follow-up.
Well, you are, because I kind of think that this is a governance issue, the issue of inclusion or non-inclusion. And I guess at some point we have to resolve that issue, because Council is not going to create -- everybody on Council was very excited about creating a Housing Trust Fund. I mean, that got strong support, and people still support it, but there has to be -- if inclusion is an issue, then we have to deal with it. So you did answer my question, but I guess at some point we all have to 72 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 review that and figure out a way to make sure that Councilmembers have input. Because when there's problems, people are going to call us. They're not going to call you. They're going to call us. We're the ones that have to go out in the community and arrange the meetings and deal with the issues. So it's important that Council is a part of the entire process and not the end of the process, and have input. (Applause.)
Yes. Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam Chair, and good afternoon. Refresh my memory. Educate me, if you will. The legislation gave us the authority to set up the Trust Fund. When it came to City Council, what role did 73 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 City Council play in designing the process by which the Trust Fund operates? We were involved in that process as Council, I believe, and the Chair referenced, I believe, the Chair is a member of that Committee or Oversight Committee. How did that happen? MS. McCOLLOCH: There was a committee of people that worked together for a long time before the ordinance came to Council that included representatives of OHCD. I sat on that committee, representatives of PACDC, Philadelphia Association of CDCs, representatives of the Affordable Housing Coalition, a staff member of Mrs. Blackwell's Council staff was at every meeting. There were other representatives from the Administration, from the NTI office and so forth.
Little did we know it would turn out this way. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Who designed that governance or that formula? Who designed the -- I'm looking for the 74 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 right word. Who designed the makeup of that Oversight Board? How did that come about? MS. McCOLLOCH: That was agreed to by that group of people that worked together to craft an ordinance that would be accepted by Council and an Executive Order that would be acceptable to the Administration and the other people involved. So both the Executive Order and the ordinance were reviewed, revised, negotiated and changed many times before the final ordinance that was presented to this body and then before the Executive Order was written that the Mayor finally signed. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that final document that came to Council, the ordinance, only included one member of City Council. MS. McCOLLOCH: In the Oversight Board. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In the Oversight Board. 75 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that was passed unanimously. MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that person is the Chair, Councilwoman Blackwell. MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. I don't have any further questions.
Thank you very much. I hope my colleague isn't happy that his district was left out. And albeit, we were at the beginning of the discussions, and Alisa Sneed, who is now Chair of the Partnership CDC in West Philadelphia in my district, was included for 150,000 of the choices, while other areas, of course, they get a million dollars. We're going to try to stand up for what's right. If my district suffers 76 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 so that it's all shared, we agree with that. There is a letter dated June 1st addressed to President Verna. I'll only read a few sentences. It says, quote, from John MacDonald, Board President of Philadelphia Association of Community Development Corporations. Now note -- and I will tell you, for all the e-mails and faxes and notices that are sent out and called every day, none were sent to me, albeit I'm on the Board. It says, quote, Thus, we have serious concerns about the proposed language in City Council Ordinance No. 17 060466 that would require that Housing Trust resources be appropriated and expended equally between each Councilmanic District with the City of Philadelphia." The last line in that paragraph says, "We have been strong advocates for the accountability of how Housing Trust resources are spent and that they should be fairly distributed 77 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 across the City. That is why we successfully advocated for an annual reporting process that details how resources have been spent, including a geographical basis." Now, that's their letter, not mine. So they have decided what the geographical basis is. They have decided how these monies should be spent, and I disagree. This is their document, not mine. (Applause.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Madam Chair --
Yes. Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If I may, since you made reference to whether I was happy that my district did not get any funds --
Maybe you have all wealthy people. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I do not have all wealthy people. 78 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
I know, Councilman. None of us does. All of us have some low income and some high income. We all do. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not arguing that point. I just want to respond. I don't know if I'm happy, nor do I know if I'm sad about that. I believe that fairness is the appropriate word. I do not necessarily interpret fairness as equal distribution, because when I look at my district, and I represent some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the City and I represent some of the poorest, on par with other districts, I don't know if I have disproportionately the amount of people that are in poverty as some of the other districts. So I don't want to be a -- I don't think I should be the policymaker when it comes to housing. I think we should help the Housing Trust Fund to 79 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 make sure that the money continues to go in and see if we can maybe at some point even increase those funds, if that's permissible, but I don't necessarily believe that as a politician that I want to get into the debate with my colleagues in other districts fighting over money that may necessarily mean that $2 million is appropriate for my district. Another district may need 3 million. So that means if we all get two a piece out of the ten and someone needs $2.5 million for basic services, what does that District Councilperson tell their constituents? We're out of money because the First Councilmanic District has 2 million, of which they don't -- (Applause.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The First Council District has 2 million, of which they only need half a million for. So I don't know if I want to go down that road. I think the politics could really muddy up this whole issue 80 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 entirely. That's just my opinion. (Applause.)
Well, let me say to my colleague that we're talking about who determines the geographical basis. If we all saw those documents -- I represent University of Pennsylvania and Drexel and USP, but I also represent Mantua and Southwest and other areas. Most of us do. I've also talked to colleagues who have said if I don't meet the criteria, I'm willing to turn the money in. That's not the issue. (Applause.)
The issue is, what is the basis for the decisions about who got funded and where is the criteria they use. I'm on the Housing Trust Board. Nobody showed me. (Applause.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, I --
So let's be fair and let's be honest. If people want to make decisions about 81 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 funding in our districts, they should run for office. That's what I do. And God willing, I'm going to run next year. (Applause.)
But nobody, nobody, nobody has the right to make decisions for me. That's what I'm fighting for, the right for City Council to make decisions, not only involving the right for people to be laid off and housing to be reorganized such that we don't have a clue, but certainly the right for us to make decisions about monies spent in our district. If you take this and the CDBG funding, that would be more than 2.6 a district. I'll take anybody's if they don't want theirs, but having said that, it is what criteria is used, who made it. And in this letter he specifically states that they made the decisions, they chose to make the decisions as housing advocates. I know a whole lot of people who are housing advocates, neighbors and 82 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 friends and people. What criteria, what qualifies them to decide that they make the decisions for my district? I make the decisions for my district. I'm elected to do so. And that's what I'm fighting for here. (Applause.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilwoman --
That's what it's all about. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilwoman --
And the meaning of this -- and then I'll be finished this moment. This hearing was advertised. Mr. Hanna knew why we were coming, and in the spirit of cooperation, if the Administration wanted to work out something, you could have come with some kind of compromise, but as in housing reorganization, as in everything, you come to defend a point of view that's 83 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 unfair, wrong and immoral. You all are wrong when it comes to this. (Applause.)
And that's just what it is, just like the sign says, it's union busting on one end and it's making decisions, not only who gets the land -- I'm real clear on these issues. It's about who gets the land and who controls the dollars that go there. That's wrong. I won't stand for that. The only thing we can do is lose. We're going to stand up for what's right, and we believe. I'm hopeful that my colleagues will agree with me that two or three people do not have a right to make decisions about $26 million, where it goes, who gets it. (Applause.)
And not only geographically, they make a decision on who is poor and who isn't. Everybody is poor if you're two weeks without a check. That's everybody. They 84 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 decide on the working poor, poor people, who qualifies and who doesn't. That's wrong, and that's what I'm here to speak about. (Applause.)
Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I appreciate what you're saying, but if transparency in how this process works is the issue, I don't think -- and I'm not suggesting that it is. I don't think that's such a difficult decision for us to make and to figure out a way in which we can make it more transparent. And with all due respect, Madam Chair -- and I know where your heart is and I know how passionate you feel about this reorganization, although I don't really know what that has to do with this hearing, but --
Everything. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But let 85 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 me -- (Applause.)
It has to do with CDBG, our Finance hearing and this, because you can't reorganize -- how can you say you don't know when -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Madam Chair.
-- when OHCD is supposed to become OHNP? It's written into the Community Development Block Grant application "OHNP." They don't have OHCD. They have OHNP. Everything is affected by reorganization. No matter how much people try to separate it, you know and everybody here knows, it's the same battle. (Applause.)
I will not justify 50 percent of the housing agencies being fired. We don't know what programs will exist on our end. We don't 86 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 know who will administer them. Nobody knows what's going on, and yet we're supposed to say, Okay, it's fine, the Administration can just change agencies, that's okay. The Administration can spend $26 million, we have no input. We're just supposed to say, Okay, we're happy to review whatever you do. And we're supposed to review what people who are not elected decide in our neighborhoods. Not me. Not without a fight. (Applause.)
And I'm sorry that this is an uncomfortable situation to be in for some of you. It isn't for me, because I'm more afraid to do the wrong thing than I'm afraid to do the right thing and not be successful. (Applause.)
I didn't start this. The Administration did. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Well, 87 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 again, with all due respect, I don't know why you were not included in any of these discussions --
I've been at every meeting. I've been at every meeting. That's not where the decisions are being made. They're being made in some back room, and when we go to the meeting, the people who are on the Housing Trust Fund have made the decisions before the meeting even begins. I'm there. I'm telling you the truth. (Applause.)
I haven't missed one meeting, not one. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not suggesting that you missed a meeting, but I can't believe that for a year, that decisions were being made and you were not aware of them.
They're being made in back rooms, Mr. DiCicco. If they were being made in the front room, I'd know I'm being left 88 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 out. They make decisions in back rooms and then come to the meetings with the decisions made, and I defy anybody to say that's not true. Don't tell me. (Applause.)
Why do you think I'm here? Why do you think I'm here? If we could have worked it out at those meetings, do you think we would have called for inclusion by everybody? That's why we're here. I don't have any more time to waste than anybody else, but you can't do wrong by employees and you can't do wrong by $26 million you hope to have at the end of this year and decide that you're going to pick in my district who gets funded. Not without a fight you won't. (Applause.)
Check your documents. They tell on themselves. I just read you a paragraph. They said they make the geographical decisions about who gets funded. They make the 89 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 decisions. Then it goes to OHCD, and we're all supposed to sit down and smile after they go in our districts and they tell the people there who is funded and who isn't. Are they going to come when the problems come? I don't think so. The problems will be yours. The decisions to fund will be theirs. That's wrong. (Applause.)
This Administration knew. We properly advertised. They knew when they came here that we would be talking about inclusion in the process. You think I want to fight about it? But you didn't come ready to say, Oh, we want Council to have some way. Mr. Diaz did. But we want Council to have some way that they have some review, that they can be included in some process. No. You didn't come here to say, Councilmembers can meet and even then on some basis low-income people within the districts, 90 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 that we're sure that they're going to get funding. No. You came in to tell us what has happened from the beginning, that the Administration makes all the decisions. You have the right to lay people off. You have a right to spend the money, and we have no rights. Well, just because -- I know they changed the Charter in 1951 and we got a strong Mayor, weak Council from a government, but it's not that weak, and we have rights, too. We're elected. (Applause.)
Do we have questions from members of my Committee? (No response.)
We are really, really concerned. We do not agree that elected people don't have the right to make decisions about funding in their districts. I take issue with that. I will continue to take issue with that. Nor do we know from our viewpoint as 91 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 elected officials and legislators how anything is going to get processed or funded with half of the people in the City laid off. What happens there? (Applause.)
We have real concerns about this immoral process that you're trying to ram down our throats. We don't like it. The Housing Trust Fund Board is not -- it does not work to the interest of the public that we're elected to represent. The Housing Trust Board does not have the right to decide who is poor and who isn't, which people are chosen within those categories and which districts are chosen within those categories. It is supposed to consider everyone, and that's not what the Housing Trust Fund is doing, and I bear witness to it. (Applause.)
Madam Chair, can I suggest, unless we have any other questions, to move on and listen to some 92 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 of the other people that are scheduled to testify?
We're happy to do that. We're getting ready to do that.
I actually take offense to some of the things that you have said, with all due respect. I love you dearly and --
Well, I assumed you love these labor people in here, too, Councilman.
I sure do, because since the age of 20, I've been a labor person. I'll continue to be a labor person, but I sure don't appreciate some of the comments that you have made, because I see someone in my neighborhood, like Pat DeCarlo is a hard-working person, and I want to hear from the CDCs to see what is their position and what is it that they do. Because in no way do I 93 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 know that someone like Pat DeCarlo, John MacDonald or Manny Delgado go behind closed doors to make deals with anybody. So I'd like to --
Ms. DeCarlo, I never referenced her. I talked about people on the committee. She's not on the Housing Trust Fund. Why would you enter her into this discussion? Let me be chair of this committee. Okay? I'm chair of this one. (Applause.)
Like Lou used to say, if I'm chair one day, I'm gonna chair that. Council, I have never mentioned Ms. DeCarlo. She is not a member of the Housing Trust Fund.
She's one of the people that -- 94 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
She's not part of CDC. Don't use her to get her into this debate. That's not fair to her or to this Committee. She's a fine person. I've never said a word about her. There's no reason for you to enter her into this discussion. But I'm going to run my -- I'm going to run this hearing. Okay? (Applause.)
My colleague knows we were at the end of our statement. If you don't have patience to listen to it, you don't have to.
I've had plenty of patience. I would be there with you like I have. The only thing I requested of you was that we have no more questions for this panel, let's move on to the other panel.
But you said that to me privately. Couldn't you wait until I was finished my statement? I was getting ready to do 95 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 that. You know that, Councilman Ramos. You know that. (Applause.)
I'm real clear on the list. I typed the list and had it passed out. Give me a break. We know who is here and we know who is on the Trust Fund and we know who isn't on the Trust Fund. We have not criticized every CDC in this City. In fact, I have letters that I'll make part of the Committee from the Resident Advisory Board and the Tenant Support Services. I will make part of the record. These are two Philadelphia Housing Authority groups that have wanted in and haven't been able to be included. They want to be included in this process as well and included in any decisions about funding. We love CDCs. I have People's Emergency Center, who supports me a thousand percent. I have that in writing. We love CDCs. There are only about five of them Citywide, though, who 96 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 deal with all the funding. We're saying that other people have a right, that this Council in fact has a right to decide what goes on in their districts. We love our CDCs. I love my community organizations. This Council passed in fact a resolution dealing with that very issue that other groups, block associations and community organizations, should also have a right in the decision-making. We love our City. That's not the issue. That's not the fight. (Applause.)
The issue is being fair. The issue is that we have ten Council Districts, five of those who have been left out, and that two or three people who make decisions about $26 million. That's a legitimate issue. And that is why we're here today and that is what it's all about. (Applause.)
That's 97 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 all it's about. It's about doing the right thing and the moral thing. Sure it's about laying off 50 percent of the housing force. That's wrong. But that's all tied up in reorganization, all tied up in the Housing Trust Fund, the Community Development Block Grant, as well as the housing reorganization, because these are the people who have to administer the program. How can we not talk about labor as an issue as well? It's all interrelated. (Applause.)
And I bear no apologies to speaking out for labor, to speaking out for honesty and who gets funds and for speaking up and out about our right as elected officials to make decisions about funding that happens in our district. I won't apologize about that to anyone. (Applause.)
It is my pleasure to now call on Mr. Marc 98 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Stier. We'll ask you if you would remain, please. Not to leave, but to remain. We're happy to have you sit on the side. Thank you. Next is Jamar Marsh. After him is Mr. Rick Sauer.
Thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell. I'm Marc Stier. I'm speaking on behalf of the --
It's okay. I'm here speaking on behalf of Neighborhood Networks. I'm here to talk about the Housing Trust Fund, not housing reorganization, but I understand that the debate about the Housing Trust Fund that we're having today has been motivated in part by concerns on the part of the labor movement, on the part of advocates of good housing policy and on your part about the Mayor's housing reorganization 99 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 proposal, and I just want to say I very much share those concerns. I think it's important that we hear the details of that proposal, and I think Council -- you've been talking very much about the role of Council in the political process, and I'd say that the role of Council should be very strong in deciding how reorganization takes place, and the concerns of the labor movement in the housing reorganization certainly should be recognized in this Council. Turning to the Housing Trust Fund, however, I want to specifically address this bill, this ordinance. I think there's a superficial plausibility to the plan to distribute the money from the Housing Trust Fund equally among Council Districts. One of the most important goals for Neighborhood Networks in housing policy is to encourage racially and economically integrated communities, and if we want to do that, then certainly affordable housing has to 100 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 be built throughout the City. But for a couple of reasons, I think the superficial plausibility of this ordinance fails when you look at it a little more closely. First, just distributing money equally in all districts does not guarantee that the money will be spent in the right places in the right way. We should instead insist that good projects are chosen, ones that create more housing units per dollar, that are designed properly, that are respectful to existing communities and that help to create racially and economically integrated communities. My guess would be that over the years, most of the money from the Housing Trust Fund would be spent roughly equally in all the districts, but I don't see any reason to assume that in any one year the projects that are put forward by the organizations that are going to carry out the responsibilities of housing 101 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 redevelopment and new construction are all going to come equally from every part in the City. Now, as it turned out that over time some districts were unfairly getting more support than others, I would think Council would want to come back and look at this policy again. But I would suggest that we let the policy go into effect and see what happens over a couple of years, see if there really is a concern about unequal spending from one district to the other. Second, I want to say that the need for affordable housing is not found equally in all districts. More than in most cities, Philadelphians care about continuing to live in their own communities. We are, as everyone always says, a city of neighborhoods, and people want to stay in their neighborhoods. To satisfy the need for affordable housing, most of our affordable housing has to be built where the people who need it now 102 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 live, and that means the reasonable thing to do is to spend the money where the need is, not necessarily equally in all districts. Now, there are a lot of tensions about the different goals we have for affordable housing. None of those tensions seem to be resolved, however, if we use a single abstract metric by dollars spent per district as a means of distributing housing dollars. Finally, I want to say one thing about the process used in distributing these monies. I'm not an expert on housing matters or the Consolidated Plan and so forth, but it strikes me that there's really no 19 difference between the procedures set up under the Housing Trust Fund and the procedures used in spending lots of housing dollars, lots of CDBG funds. There were requests for proposals.
The Councilmembers and District Councilmembers have a major role to play 103 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 in those requests for proposals. I'm in Councilman Nutter's district. My community organization is mostly in Councilwoman Miller's district. When there's a request for proposals, our District Councilpeople let the community organizations, let the CDCs know about them. So they play a very important role in encouraging CDCs and other agencies to come forward and request funds. And then when those requests goes forward, Councilmembers play an enormously important role in influencing the Administration formally and informally in deciding which of those proposals are accepted by the Administration. I think anyone who has paid attention to housing policy, development policy generally in the City over the last 10 or 15 years would see that District Councilpeople are incredibly important in this process. They should be important, and I don't see anything in 104 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 this whole legislation that changes the role they play right now. So I respectfully suggest that there's no good reason to be concerned about the role of District Councilpeople, and I don't see any reason for this ordinance. I think if you start saying that every dollar spent in a district should be determined by a District Councilperson, first of all, it would seem to me that would leave five Councilpeople without much to do. I don't know what our at-large people would be doing then in any cases. And second of all --
The record should reflect that at-large Councilmembers observe the process and respect the process. District Councilpersons have enormous and I believe rightfully enormous decision-making as to how dollars are spent in their Councilmanic District. 105 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466
I'm being somewhat facetious. At-large people have an enormous role to play. I just wanted to suggest that they have to oversee the whole process, and if all the money is distributed equally, there's no role for the at-large people in oversight of the process. My question is, how far are we going to go? They're doing a sewer on Wissahickon Avenue in front of my house. Councilman Nutter played a major role in getting money for that sewer, but it was ultimately the Administration's decision. Do you want to distribute sewer money equally per district and have Councilpeople decide where we're going to replace a sewer, where we're going to replace a sidewalk, where our roads are going to be resurfaced, where a traffic light is going to be? If you start distributing money this way, I think that's the road we're going down, and it, frankly, doesn't make much sense to me. 106 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Thanks very much.
No. I oppose this measure. I think there's plenty of room 7 for District Councilpeople to influence the decisions without this measure, and I think we should distribute the money according to need, not according to some mathematical formula.
I'm afraid I don't. I did this at the last minute. I can try to get it to you by first thing in the morning, though.
Thank you very much. The legislation does say how the money has to be spent. So that's in the legislature, Mr. Stier. 107 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Councilwoman Tasco.
Yeah. I've been in my office and I've watched this on television, and I ask the question. One of the current concerns that I have is whether the money is equitably distributed or not. I think the question for me is, how is the determination made to appropriate the money for projects? I don't know what the RFP said for this round of information. I do know that -- I assume, as I've been told, that some of the money can go for housing preservation. I represent a district that does not have a lot of blighted housing, but what I have are people who are on fixed income, who are low income, who can't fix the step, who can't fix the garage door. And ever since I've been on Council I have asked for dollars to go into a pool so those people could access some of their tax dollars for their neighborhood. 108 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 So it doesn't seem that the proposal looked at what else might be needed other than housing. I understand the need for additional units, but also there's a need for other things too in neighborhoods. And when is that consideration going to be given? Because in this proposal, there's nothing coming out of my area, the Ninth Councilmanic District, that would benefit those people whose tax dollars we're using. Where is the fairness for them? And that is the question I have about how the dollars will be spent and when and what point will they come to my district to help those people that need that help.
Well, I think the Administration might be better off speaking on that issue in part, but let me just point out that this RFP was for a certain part of the project. As I understand it, money in the Housing Trust Fund can be spent on rehab projects. And the decision to do that is, if I 109 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 understand it correctly, part of the Consolidated Plan, which is voted on by Council. So that's under your control. That's under your control now.
When Mr. Stier is finished his testimony, perhaps Kevin Hanna and Deb McColloch can come back and describe the areas of funding that the Housing Trust Fund is supposed to cover, and maybe that might help to answer my colleague's question about the criteria, about the areas that you fund.
One, the categories that can be funded, what is the planning for that funding, when will that money reach the communities, is there an overall plan. So who decided that we should just go out and issue this RFP? What is the plan for dealing with some of the issues that I care about, those policy issues?
Thank you. Excellent questions, and when 110 6/7/06 - HOUSING - BILL 060466 Mr. Stier is finished, we'll ask them to come back and respond to those.