COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, 12/12/01, 1:07 p.m. - - - BILL 010335 Revising parking regs on Pine Street. BILL 010341 Establishing parking reg on Uber Street. BILL 010496 Authorizing Richard Ley electric service to his vendor truck. BILL 010559 Authorizing revision of lines and grades on portion of City Plan No. 58... BILL 010603 Granting permission to N.C. Mangini Newsstand to install electrical and phone service. BILL 010606 Establishing a no-truck-parking and tow-away zone regulation on Vine Street. BILL 010616 Authorizing Ben Franklin Foods to construct, 2 one-story building additions. BILL 010618 Establishing a no-truck-parking and tow-away zone regulation on Haverford Avenue BILL 010619 Prohibiting loading, unloading of passengers at off-street locations on City Avenue from 47th Street to Belmont Avenue. BILL 010620 Use of Dumpsters - City Line Ave... BILL 010659 Residential Eligibility for Municipal Trash Collection. BILL 010661 Authorizing Amtrak to construct a pedestrian bridge. BILL 010667 Relocating certain right-of-way for drainage purpose, water main purposes, and gas main purposes lying within lines of former Mifflin Street. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: Frank DiCicco, Chair Richard T. Mariano Darrell L. Clarke Donna Reed Miller David Cohen Michael A. Nutter W. Wilson Goode, Jr. Angel L. Ortiz James F. Kenney Frank Rizzo - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 12/12/01 STREETS & SERVICES INDEX PAGE Bill 010659 C. Morrisey, Phila. Condominium Managers Assoc. R. Greenbaum, Society Hill Towers.............. P. Chialastri, Philadelphia Owners Association 32 William Johnson, Phila. Streets Commissioner... 39 B. Sherman, General Manager, Society Hill Towers 67 A. Werner, Academy House Condo Association..... 69 J. Bernstein, Phila. Condo Mgrs. Association... 71 M. Bacal, Society Hill Towers.................. 79 Bill 010496 Nancy Sen, Streets Department.................. 82 Bill 010603 Nancy Sen, Streets Department.................. 83 Bill 010616 Nancy Sen, Streets Department.................. 85 Bill 010661 Nancy Sen, Streets Department.................. 87 William McDowell, Amtrak....................... 88 BILL 010559 Paul Lonie, Streets Department................ 90 BILL 010667 Paul Lonie, Streets Department................ 92 BILL 010335 Catherine DeCina, Philadelphia Parking Authority 83 BILL 010606 Charles Denny, Chief Traffic Engineer, Streets 94 BILL 010618 Charles Denny, Chief Traffic Engineer, Streets 97 BILL 010341 Charles Denny, Chief Traffic Engineer, Streets 99 BILL 010619 Councilman Michael A. Nutter................... 100 BILL 010620 Councilman Michael A. Nutter................... 3 12/12/01 STREETS & SERVICES INDEX
I'm asking members of the Streets and Services Committee to please come to the chambers. Will members of the Streets and Services Committee please report to the chambers. - - -
Can I have your attention, please. Thank you. The Committee on Streets and Services now in session. We have a quorum, and the members of the committee are, to my extreme right, Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, Councilman Goode, Councilman Mariano, Councilman Ortiz, and myself, the chair, Councilman DiCicco. There are other members of City Council in attendance: Councilman Nutter and Councilman Kenney. Before I begin, I would like to thank everyone for your patience in waiting and for taking the time to come here today. I understand there's been some arrangements made as to who will testify. There are a number of people who are here from various condo associations and co-ops, and I believe that we're condensing some of that testimony because, obviously, we're all here for the same 4 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 thing. So for the record, if we can, would all of those who are here to deal with the legislation as it relates to the condominium and the trash collection just please stand. Let the record reflect that there are approximately 75 to 100 folks, I guess, here in attendance today. Thank you. You may be seated. The clerk will read the title of the first bill.
Bill 010659, an ordinance 13 amending Chapter 10-700 of the Philadelphia Code concerning refuse and littering by adding a new section entitled "Residential Eligibility for Municipal Trash Collection," all under certain terms and conditions.
Before we begin, I need the folks who are standing out -- excuse me, the folks who are standing along the rail, would you please take a seat so the people behind you could watch what's going on here. Thank you. Sir? I'd ask all the gentlemen to remove their hats as well, please. Before we begin taking testimony on this 5 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 bill, I would like to take this opportunity to thank my colleague Councilman Kenney for bringing this matter to our attention, and I believe the Councilman has an opening remark. Councilman Kenney.
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity for hearing the bill in such an expedited fashion. This bill would expand residential eligibility for municipal trash collection to include condominiums and cooperatives. I introduced this ordinance with you and Councilman Cohen because we believe that trash collection is one of the basic City services the City must provide for all of its residential taxpayers, regardless of whether their home is on the street or built on top of another home. It is important to note that this bill 24 does not stipulate in any way how the Streets Department should collect anyone's trash. As this 6 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 Council did with the issue of recycling, this bill 3 merely stipulates that these homeowners should be eligible for the same trash collection as others and allows the Streets Department to decide how to do so. I want to thank everyone for coming today and I appreciate your time and testimony. I think it's important to understand that people who own condominiums and cooperatives pay real-estate taxes just like every homeowner. (Applause.)
This city provides basic services to those taxpayers, like fire and police protection, sanitation, and other such City services. To exclude this class of homeowner and residential taxpayer from this absolutely basic City service, I think, is just an issue of basic unfairness. (Applause.)
And so as we move forward on this hearing, I'd like to just keep that in mind as we're attempting to retain and attract residents to our city, people who can pay the taxes that provide for services for other people in need, 7 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 and I think it's important that we be fair to all of them and hope that we can move bill this forward in an expedited fashion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let the record also reflect the fact that Councilman Rizzo and Councilman Darrell Clarke are now in attendance as well, and they're also members of this committee. Robert Greenbaum and Cynthia Morrisey -- am I pronouncing that correctly? (Witnesses come forward.)
This will be the first panel. Is there anyone else on this panel that I left out? It's just the three of you on the first panel? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It is the three of us. Thank you, Councilman.
When you begin, just please identify yourself for the record and spell your last name for the stenographer and proceed with your testimony. Thank you. 8 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Good afternoon, Councilman. My name is Cynthia Morrisey, M-O-R-R-I-S-E-Y. I am the President of the Philadelphia Condominium Managers Association, which represents 44 condominium buildings in the City of Philadelphia, which is between and 10,000 condominium units. I 8 also manage Park Plaza Condominiums, which is on the outskirts of Fairmount Park, which has 350 units. I first want to thank Councilman Kenney, Cohen, and DiCicco for introducing this bill and finally letting us be heard. We have been fighting for years and years that we have not been afforded the same municipal services that have been afforded to any other unit owner in the City of Philadelphia simply because our owners choose to live vertically. If I could and if you wouldn't mind indulging me, I would just like to explain to you a little bit about the concept of the condominium owner. First and foremost, condominium homeowners are residential homeowners. Condominiums formulate a zero-based budget each year to pay for annual operating costs. Condominiums are an organized cluster of residential units. Condominiums hope to share operating expenses that are common to a 9 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 community. A condominium divides the actual cost of common expenses, trash being one of them, between homeowners based upon the square footage that is owned by each homeowner. A condominium is managed by a board of directors that is comprised of individual homeowners who are elected by the homeowners at each particular condominium. Condominiums are not commercial enterprises; condominiums do not operate to make a profit. Condominium owners are not renters, nor do they pay rent to a landlord or a commercial entity. Again, I reiterate, a condominium owner is a residential homeowner. They pay real-estate taxes and are entitled to the same municipal services that any other resident and tax-paying unit owner is in the City of Philadelphia. Condominium owners are responsible for all household expenses, including, but not limited to, maintenance, repairs, and upkeep of their individual home. Condominium owners represent many people. They represent people who are purchasing their first home. They represent -- they may be a couple who 10 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 once lived in the City who moved out to the suburbs and are returning to the City. Condominium owners represent an organized bloc of voters, which you should know. Having now given a description to you of what a condominium and a condominium owner is and is not, it's important to say to you that by simply choosing to live vertically and to live with the concept of ownership, it does not mean that condominium owners should be subject to the inequities that they have been forced to deal with. It is easier for some to categorize condominium into rate and/or service classes based upon convenience rather than taking the time to understand the condominium concept. Time and time again, this confusion leads to condominium homeowners being penalized for choosing to live vertically rather than live beside one another on a city block. Some examples of these inequities are the inequitable distribution of the proposed water rate increase, the multifamily taxes, and the double expense of trash hauling and recycling. We urge you to support Bill No. 010659, 11 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 and by doing so, you would be sending a very strong message to each and every condominium unit owner in the City of Philadelphia that you recognize their plight and you're willing to fight with them and for them to make them on a par with other single family homeowners. I thank you for your attention and I welcome you to hear from some of our other colleagues.
I have a couple of questions. Do you happen to know what the average real-estate tax is paid by condo owners in the City of Philadelphia?
Do you happen to know what the average square footage of a condo in the City of Philadelphia is?
It can vary. I would say it's probably anywhere from 12 to 1800 square feet, depending on the size. Each building has a different makeup. 12 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
All right, thank you. Any questions for this witness? Councilman Ortiz.
And they are distributed not just in Center City but across many different neighborhoods across the City, right?
Absolutely. They go from the Northeast to South Philadelphia. I don't know that there are any in North Philadelphia, but they are absolutely all across the City.
All right. And let me say we've gotten your letter about the issues, and they've been very articulate and very well done.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning -- well, actually, good 13 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 afternoon.
I'm not sure you can answer this question, but I'll give you a shot at it, and I'll probably have to ask the Streets Commissioner a similar question later on. With respects to the various types of trash collection services that the condominium owners use given the fact that they're across the City of Philadelphia, can you talk to me to some degree about what you understand the different types of services are, meaning the types of trucks, the types of pickups, the ability to access the condominiums? 'Cause that's something that I'm not clear beyond my district because the bulk of the condominiums are in Center City and in my Councilmatic District, and I'm not sure about the outlying areas. Can you give me a sense of what types of services are required?
I actually think each building is different. At Park Plaza, we have six-day-a week pickup. We also use front-end load 14 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 machines -- I'm sorry, the trucks are front-end load pickup. Many of the buildings in Center City, I am sure, have the same type of pickup. I don't know about the Northeast, and I couldn't answer exactly to what each and every one, how theirs is picked up.
Okay. I guess I'll ask the Commissioner. I'm trying to get a sense of if the traditional types of vehicles that we currently have in our workforce could accommodate some of the condominiums in the outlying areas and then subsequently get a sense of what additional equipment would be needed to accommodate the other condominiums in the Center City area and other areas throughout the City.
I think your commissioner would know better. I don't know your equipment.
Currently, the garbage pickup is done by a private company?
And the charge in that is a part of the overall charge of maintenance that 15 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 you have to pay and so on?
Correct. And at Park Plaza, we pay about $35,000 a year, which gets passed through to each unit owner, so that they, in effect, are paying twice in their taxes as well.
Do you happen to know what the cumulative cost to all of the condos in the City may be?
I don't, but I believe somebody else may be touching on that.
Thank you. Any other questions of this witness? (No further questions for this witness.)
Mr. Greenbaum, you decide who goes next. Oh, sorry. Councilman Nutter. I apologize. 16 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to messages, as Miss Morrisey indicated, she's also the manager over at Park Plaza, 3900 Ford Road.
And we've had the occasion to work together on a number of situations, and I'm glad that you had the opportunity to be here today. I look forward to the opportunity to vote on this bill. I think it's very, very important for the condominium owners
Thank you, Councilman DiCicco. My name is Robert Greenbaum, G-R-E-N-B-A-U-M. I am President of the Homeowners Association of Society Hill Towers. I would also like to thank Councilman Kenney, Councilman DiCicco, and Councilman Cohen for 17 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 introducing this bill, which is critical to the homeowners that live in co-ops and condos. And I think it's very important that everybody keep in mind that people that live in condos and co-ops are homeowners, just as the homeowners in South Philadelphia, in Chestnut Hill, in Roxborough that may live in a building that looks somewhat different than what many of us perceive as the traditional condominium. Society Hill Towers is a high-rise condominium that is three Towers, located down at Second and Locust Street. There are, however, condominiums located throughout the City that don't look like the Towers; they look much more like traditional row homes. And I think it's important that we remember because many of us initially think of high-rises as being the only type of condominium, that there are other types of condominiums, many of which don't present the preconceived problems that picking up trash from a high-rise appear to present. And if I can take a moment to address one of the questions about the types of equipment that are necessary. I have -- I am also a lawyer in addition to being a resident of Society Hill Towers, 18 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 and I have a client that for the past 40 years has been in the waste removal business. And prior to coming to testify today, I spoke with him, and he is familiar with the type of trash collection system that we have at the Towers. And I asked him whether it was a problem for the City to pick up trash at the Towers, and he said absolutely not. The way our trash is picked up at the moment is by a rear-end loader, which means the trash truck, which looks exactly like the trash that goes down the streets in South Philly that, you know, you lift the trash can and throw it in the back and you empty the trash out and pull the trash can back out. This truck looks exactly the same except it has a (indiscernible) system in addition on it. And you pull two pieces of wire down that you hook onto little knobs on the back of the Dumpster and it pulls the container into the truck, empties it, and sets it back down on the ground. I am told that it would cost somewhere between 3 and $5,000 to modify a truck that the City currently owns to make it possible to handle that kind of pickup. That, by the way, would not take that truck out of service if it was needed to pick 19 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 up trash in Chestnut Hill or Roxborough or any other community that has primarily single-family homes; it would still be absolutely capable of performing both types of tasks.
What about taking the apparatus off and continuing to --
Right, that's correct. It mounts on the outside of the truck, and it's just literally a set of wires that pull down and hook on to these knobs and then pulls it up and dumps it into the truck. It absolutely could continue to put trash cans in on another day or even as part of the same route. This bill is about fairness and justice and about treating homeowners the same. Condominium and co-op homeowners are the same, as I said earlier, as their neighbors. And if you look at the Towers, we're surrounded by traditional Philadelphia-style row homes. They pay the tax the same way we pay our tax. If there's a condo that's assessed at $100,000 and a neighboring house that's assessed at $100,000, the tax bill is exactly the same. We don't get as many services, however; we don't get our trashed picked up. 20 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 The Towers has about 700 homes. We spend approximately $50,000 a year to pick up our trash, which turns out to be about $70 per year per homeowner. My understanding is that the Streets Commissioner is going to be presenting testimony in opposition to the bill based upon what he perceives to be an inappropriately high cost or a cost that the City cannot afford. It strikes me that there are a couple of responses to that. First of all, I did some quick math, and he has projected, as I understand it, that it would cost $6 million a year to provide the service to condo and co-op owners. At $100 a home or a unit, that would mean that there would have to be 60,000 co-ops in this city. I can assure you that there is nowhere near 60,000. There are probably, as Miss Morrisey indicated, somewhere between 8 and 10 -- if you're really generous, 12,000 condominiums in the City. The number is clearly way lower than 6 million. Using the City's numbers, or the Street Commissioner's numbers, with 15,000 condominiums, if you were spending $6 million, it would cost him $400 21 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 per year per household. If that's true -- and I don't mean this to sound snide, but if that's true, the City doesn't belong in the trash business, when the Towers can have its trash hauled away for $70 a unit. I'd like to turn for a moment to talk about how other places deal with this very same problem. Obviously, Philadelphia is not the only place where there are condominiums and co-ops. New Jersey, which was confronted with this matter and was confronted not only in a political context but also in a judicial context with litigation over whether municipalities had to provide this service, decided that the State legislature should step in. And New Jersey has passed a law that requires the municipality to either provide the service, pick up the trash, or to pay the condominiums for picking up the trash. But clearly, the key is, the legislature understood that it was a question of fairness and equity. You have homeowners that aren't getting the same level of service that their neighbors are getting, and they're entitled to it. New York has handled it in a slightly 22 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 different way, although reaching an important result. The courts in New York have held that the municipalities must provide the service. That's what we're asking City Council to require that of the City of Philadelphia do: Provide the same service to homeowners, this very basic municipal service, that is provided to our neighbors. Thank you.
Thank you for your testimony. Getting back to the New Jersey issue, is that -- you said that they're required to pay the condominium owners? Is that in the form of a tax credit or is it a rebate?
I believe it's a rebate, although I'm not positive, Councilman DiCicco.
If you can get that information, it would be helpful to this committee.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? Councilman Clarke?
Just one. Thank you, 23 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 Mr. Chairman. You mentioned indirectly the workforce. Do you have a sense of the workforce of the private trash pickup companies? Are they like a union workforce? Or do you have any idea what --
I don't know whether they're union. I would imagine it varies from company to company. As you may be aware, Councilman, there's been a significant consolidation in the waste industry. I can tell you my client, which sold out to BFI, which is now a part of Waste Management, which is a part of somebody else, but when my client ran his business, it was non-union, although his wages, interestingly enough, were higher than union wages.
Well -- or we may find a way of putting them to work in a more efficient way.
Okay, all right. I was just wondering 'cause I know the labor costs associated with a lot of work we do is a substantial portion of what we spend, so I was wondering what the workforce was like. 24 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 Okay, thank you.
By the way, if I may, when I did that quick math of 15,000 units at an estimated cost of $6 million, $400 a unit, that was using the entire budget, as I understand it. For the sanitation division for the fiscal year 2002 of $85 million. Clearly, there are a lot costs in that budget that one cannot attribute to picking up household waste. There's some $6 million for what's called "sanitation cleaning." My understanding of that is that includes street-cleaning, that it includes cleaning up after parades, it includes cleaning up at the Vet and the sports stadiums. So that even using the 85 number, which I don't think accurately reflects what it really costs to pick up at a household, you end up with a very big number.
Councilman Ortiz. And also let the record reflect that Councilman Cohen is now in attendance. Councilman Ortiz.
You said the building pays $50,000 a year, and Miss Morrisey gave us a 25 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 breakdown of $70. I don't know if you did, I might have --
Actually, I think I may have mentioned a figure of 70,000.
There are homes at the Towers, so I did very simple math. I took 50,000 and divided it by 700, and it's a tad over 70, it may be over 71.
And BFI is one of the companies that is in the business of -- with the condominiums, right? There are a few companies that are doing this type of work in Philadelphia.
There are several; BFI is one. The company that hauls the trash at the Towers is a company known as "Onyx," which BFI is not a part of that, as I understand it. So there's competition. We do put our trash hauling contract out for bid.
Let me ask you a question: How often is your trash picked up at the Towers?
It's picked up six days a week as well. 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Six days a week. And there are three towers there; is it all in a central location for all three towers, or each tower has its own area?
For all three towers. The hauler makes one stop, picks up the Dumpster at that one location, and actually it's a -- we're a one-stop place.
I do believe we compact. We also recycle, of course, as we are required to, and that gets hauled away twice a month.
By the private hauler. My understanding is that there are -- and I don't know the details on this, but there is some form that we fill out that gives the City credit for our recycling, and as I understand it, that goes towards the City's recycling projects and efforts, and they 27 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 get funding from grants, so we're paying a third time.
I see somebody throwing fingers up in the back -- it's like an auction going on back there. You can speak later, ma'am, if you'd like to testify. Councilman Cohen.
First, welcome to Kensington Welfare Rights Organization. It's about time that the people really had an opportunity to be not only seen but heard, and I hope you're going to be heard on the blight question and on the question of housing and on all issues affecting the City residents. You have the same rights, the Kensington Welfare Rights, as the condominium owners have. (Applause.)
And with respect to the condominium owners, I think you're entitled. The fact that you may have a higher income level than other groups doesn't mean you're to be treated unfairly. And I have a few basic questions I'd like to know about and whether there are any facts that sustain any point of view. For example, when a 28 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 building is a private apartment building, say, owned by a single owner, what is the tax revenue of that building compared to the tax revenue paid to the City of Philadelphia if that building becomes a condo? Are there any statistics like that? It's always an odd feeling that the City made out like a bandit whenever that kind of a change is made.
I don't know the figures for sure, Councilman Cohen, but I would imagine, just as your intuition tells you, that when you convert something from an apartment house into a condo, that that would result in a much higher assessment and consequently much more revenue for the City. My recollection is actually, there was litigation out in one of the suburbs -- I believe it may be Lower Merion, where the condo owners challenged their assessment because, in fact, they were assessed differently than the apartment houses and, therefore, were paying more. And the ruling of the court was that the taxing authorities had the right to tax condos exactly the same way they tax houses. 29 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Well, that would make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand why a person who lives in a condo should be treated less fairly than a person living in a rowhouse or a private house. It makes no sense to me at all. (Applause.)
Obviously we agree with you, Councilman Cohen, and we obviously very much appreciate the fact that you have cosponsored this bill.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask one question. You indicated in your testimony, or in your responses, that you have six times a week. Why is that necessary to have six times a week, just because of the level of the refuse?
Well, it's a combination of factors. Partially, I think it's a space issue. 30 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 It's just, do we want to store our trash or do we want to get it off-site? I think it's also a health issue. Obviously, the more trash we have stored on the premises, the harder it is to maintain a rodent-free environment. So I think that's a part of it. I think, quite frankly, and my client has indicated, that there are ways where the Towers in particular could store its trash without jeopardizing the sanitation issues for a week and have pickup once a week. It would obviously involve a capital expenditure on the part of the Towers.
They have that in a couple businesses in my district, where they wanted to expand, and we agreed that they would have a refrigerated area for trash to be kept.
And my understanding is that works very effectively and would permit more infrequent pickup. So that may or may not work in a lot of other places, obviously. But there is certainly somewhere it would work.
That's an issue where 31 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 right now, we have individuals who get their refuse picked up by the Sanitation Department who are requesting a second day. And operationally, I don't know how we can accommodate six days or multiple days, given the fact that we that can't do it with the current workforce dealing with the current pickups.
I think one of the things to keep in mind is -- and again in the towers, and I don't mean to harp on a large complex, 'cause many of the complexes are small. We have to keep in mind that many, many, many of the complexes are 10-, 20-, and 30-unit complexes, so you're not looking at a 700-unit building. Many of these complexes can get away with the less frequent trash collection. And it strikes me that picking up multiple times from 700 homes when it's one stop is still very cost-effective.
Any other questions for these witnesses? Miss Morrisey, you looked like you wanted to jump in. 32 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
No, actually I just wanted to introduce our next witness, and I'll allow her to give you her name -- it's a little bit -- she'll explain.
Americans have problems with difficult names. Good afternoon, members of City Council and committee members. I'm going to be brief and I will not be redundant. My name is Priscilla Chialastri. It is spelled C-H-I-A-L-A-S-T-R-I. I'm here as representing -- I'm the Vice President of the Philadelphia Owners Association, which is a condominium building which houses 776 apartments as well as a number of commercial and professional offices. We are located at 2401 Pennsylvania Avenue, a beautiful location opposite the Art Museum. I'm a lifelong resident of Philadelphia as well as a South Philadelphia business owner. My husband is a retired public school principal, and we have lived at the Philadelphian for 30 years. We've always had for, both for business and for personal reasons, a very strong commitment to Philadelphia -- occasionally with some reservations. 33 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 Last year, our owners were faced with a percent increase in our assessments as well as a 4 real estate increase from 20 to 30 percent. This 5 coming year, we are forced to have an additional 6 increase in our assessment and yet a second increase in our real-estate tax -- in some cases, as high as 50 percent. I'm here to tell that you I as well as others are reluctantly considering moving out of the City. Our board is faced with the problem of cutting costs and justifying certain expenditures. Among them is the issue of the cost of private trash collection. Our annual cost for the residential trash collection is in excess of $70,000 a year. Our commercial units are responsible for their own, obviously. Our private trash expense, of course, is our business and the commercial owners' business -- that's the cost of doing business, and we all understand that. While most of us accept the cost of Center City living and understand the need to pay our fair share of taxes, we are of the opinion that we should all receive our fair share of City services, and in 34 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 this case, the trash collection. We as well as you are aware of the exodus of the middle class to the suburbs and to New Jersey, and we recognize that among you are Councilpersons who are working diligently to stem this flight. However, please don't ignore the fact that that there are fewer of us paying, picking up the tariff, and in most cases, we're willing to do so -- although I would point out that in our building as well as other condos in the City, we have a number of residents who are on fixed incomes and who are aging in place. We need to make condo living attractive to a new market as these condominiums become vacant. And to this end, there's a compelling need to justify our expenditures. I understand that you may consider this issue a non-issue in the broader context of the City's problems. Nevertheless, it's one to which, in all fairness, you must give your serious attention. All that we ask is that you provide our owners with the same service as other homeowners. Give us some teeth; that is, give our owners association some teeth so when we address our 35 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 owners, they feel that you care enough to make the right decision. Thank you very much, and I wish all of you a good holiday and a happy and healthy new year. (Applause.)
Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
You're wrong. Actually, we are -- we spent the last two days in essence debating how to begin, one, attracting a middle class back into the City, keeping the ones we have, and also attracting a younger generation of professionals beside. I have a niece who goes to Wharton, and she was talking to me about whether she can stay in Philadelphia when she graduates -- she lives at the Academy House -- whether she can stay in Philadelphia or leave for New York or Boston or Washington, D.C. And in essence, one of the issues was, one, the urban area and the city life, but also the aspect of apartment living and how she can, as a young professional, be able to afford it, be able to live here and be able to make Center City her home. 36 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 So it's not just the individuals with a fixed income who we need to be able to look at, but how do we begin attracting that other generation that we're losing, and that's the University of Penn graduate, the Temple graduate and so on, who are moving. And we need to be able to bring them back.
This is as you, I'm sure, will agree, a beautiful city. And I think that what happens in Center City is crucial, but I was interested in the testimony that was given about the revitalization of the neighborhoods, because obviously, when people come to Philadelphia, they come through the neighborhoods; everybody doesn't drive up the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. And so I think that we need to work together, I think, to make it viable, liveable, attractive to middle class. One of the problems that I see in our neighborhood -- now, this is not necessarily at the Philadelphian but in the Fairmount section, we do have so called yuppies who move into the neighborhood, but they don't put roots down in the neighborhood. When they have children who are ready for school, they move out. We want to try to 37 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 discourage this. And as I said before, we have many people in our building who are aging in place. They need to be replaced with young, younger.
We've been harping on this now, and we need also to make sure, because we -- one of the debates is, where do you spend the money? We're talking about neighborhood transformation, and it's where you spend the money, whether you spend the money -- and we have a school system, and Jim Kenney, myself, other individuals have begun to try to emphasize that the reason people leave the City of Philadelphia is not just because of taxes but also because of a school system that is not functioning. Like you say, that younger generation of people, we got a school system that needs an infusion of money, and we're not getting that infusion either from the City or the State at this point in time. So we need in order for that generation of young people to have kids, they need to have good schools to send them to.
I couldn't agree with you more. 38 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
In a way, I guess I'm wearing two hats here because, as a longtime South Philadelphia business owner, I'm also interested in South Philadelphia, and I want to take this opportunity to commend Councilman Jim Kenney for the work that he has done on behalf of the South Philadelphia constituency. Thank you very much. Keep it up.
Good afternoon, Commissioner. Thank you for coming, thank you for your patience in waiting, and please proceed with 39 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon. My name is William Johnson, and I'm the Streets Commissioner of the City of Philadelphia. Before I begin with my formal testimony, which I think you all have copies of, I've also brought in a series of maps, because as we started to look at this issue, we just wanted to get a feel for where the condo units were located here in the City, so I have maps here for everyone on the committee.
Excuse me, one minute, Commissioner. Do you all have copies? Sorry for interrupting. There should be a map in there. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What I've provided are a series of maps that just kind of show the distribution of where condominium and cooperative properties are located throughout the City.
Thank you. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The Department of Streets currently provides curbside collection of rubbish, recyclables, and bulk items such as appliances and furniture. We collect 685 times 40 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 annually from approximately 530 premises every week. In general, the City provides weekly collection of trash, biweekly collection of recycling, and bulk collection on demand. The City's fleet supports a system where materials are collected curbside from either 32-gallon trash cans or standard trash bags. Municipal regulations limits solid waste collection to those premises that are separate real-estate parcels with six or less units that also meet set-out limits with respect to volume, service frequency, and set-out location. These provisions currently apply to both residential and small commercial properties. The proposed legislation would alter who receives services by adding condominium cooperatives and buildings with six or more units to those eligible for curbside collection. Collections would be added without regard for the type of service required or the volume of waste produced. The equipment, personnel, and facilities necessary to institute service that this legislation would require is substantially different than any existing in the Department. 41 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 The fiscal impact of this service expansion is equally significant. 3 million. 3 million. The Department of Streets believes that our regulations governing collections are fair and nondiscriminatory. We do exclude from collection eligibility such premises as manufacturers, wholesalers, and automotive repair businesses. We do exclude businesses with more than six dwelling -- I mean, we do exclude buildings with more than six dwelling units regardless of the form of ownership, as they typically require a different type and frequency of service. We also limit the volume of rubbish that can be set out per week by any establishment receiving City services. These standards were established to provide efficient and economical services and to ensure that adequate service levels are maintained in the interest of public health. In fact, the Department currently provides waste services to an estimated 4,000 condominiums and cooperatives which 42 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 meet these standards. Under the proposed legislation, we would provide special-collection services to all condominiums and cooperatives regardless of use, volume, or service requirements. "Condominium," as defined by 68 Pennsylvania, 3103, do not require (inaudible). In fact, we have been advised that a popular form of ownership in large-scale investment properties are condominiums. This legislation does not address owner occupancy, only property ownership, meaning that an owner that does not -- that an owner does not have to reside at the unit to qualify for this service. As a result, service would be provided to rental and investment properties. We believe that the implementation of a policy such as this raises issues related the City's potential inclusion of other rental properties with similar service requirements based on the question of fairness. And, in fact, there would not be many reasons to support exclusion of the provision of collection services to apartment building and other residential investment properties in the future. Further, this legislation provides an incentive for 43 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 many apartment buildings to be converted to condominium form of ownership. The physical impact of further expansion of services would create an even greater burden on the General Fund. Based on the data from the Board of Revision of Taxes, there are an estimated 82,000 rental units in the City that do not receive City services. The cost of collection services for this population would exceed $40 million in the first year and $21 million annually.
We believe that this legislation is not in the best interests of the City and would create unnecessary hardships on our servicing units. Each condominium association has individual and specialized service requirements, and ownership varies greatly. Additionally, logistical details of the proposed legislation, disposal systems, and specific requirements are not considered. Given the potential impacts, the Streets Department must be in strong opposition to the proposed legislation. In closing, let me again state that our regulations provide for uniform service delivery. The current regulations provide efficient and 44 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 equitable service delivery based on the type of service provided by the City and the volumes generated by the establishment. The proposed legislation would change this, requiring the Department to substantially different types of services to residents and owners, depending on their form of ownership, without regard to volumes of waste generated or other service requirements. Further, the proposed legislation would potentially cost the City over $52 million in the first year and $27 million in annual operating expenses. These added expenses would come at a time when the economy in recession, tax revenues are growing slowly, our city must spend more to maintain home land security, and the City faces a 1fiscal crisis within the schools and every operating department to maintain existing service levels. We would, therefore, encourage the committee to pull this legislation and reevaluate its merits and its impacts prior to taking further action. That concludes my formal testimony. We would be open to answering any questions the committee might have. 45 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
Thank you, thank you, Commissioner. And before I begin, I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for the work you've done since you've come to Philadelphia as our new commissioner. Think I said that at the budget hearings and I want to repeat that again today. I have always found you a person to be very fair and someone who at least would listen to the issues and try to see if we can come up with some reasonable accommodation to our requests. So I want to thank you again for that. The two issues I want to start out before I ask the panel if they have any questions is, I understand that when it comes to collecting trash in certain types of condominium facilities -- and I'll take vertical facilities as an example -- that the logistical issues are not as simple as collecting in a rowhouse, but I wanted to go back to the issue again of fairness. If you were able to take that vertical-standing building and lay it down horizontally and there was a door to each of the units, in effect, we would be required to collect 46 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 the trash on a weekly basis anyway. (Applause.)
But I also understand the fact that we aren't dealing with in many cases vertical buildings, and again, there's a logistical issue with that. But the total sum of collecting, if you take the to 15,000, whatever that actual 9 number is, of condominium owners, be they rental or 10 owner-occupied, because many residential rowhouses 11 are rental units. Not everyone who lives in a 12 rowhouse is an owner. (Applause.)
And my comments are not mEANT to be hostile; I'm just trying to get to a point, that people are paying real-estate taxes, and I think Mr. Greenbaum expressed that earlier. I think we should be able to figure out some reasonable accommodation to give them the services that they're paying for, at least in the area of trash collection. (Applause.)
So I don't know where we wind up at the end of the day with all of this; we may have to come back at a later date. But I 47 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 want us to begin to think about not drawing a line in the sand saying it's virtually impossible. What is it we can do to maybe -- if we can't get the full service or services, what can we do to get at least some of the services that they're entitled to, while all reasonable people understand that everything is not as simple as we would like it to be in terms of the logistics and collecting. Does that make sense to you? Do you understand where I'm going with this? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: (Nods head.)
'Cause I always try to figure out, if we can't do it all, we got to figure out a way of compromising, and I'm not suggesting that the community representatives are here today would agree to any compromise, but I think we have to at least discuss that and put that in the mix, and that should be on the table for discussion. So I would like whatever we discuss going forward today to at least have that in the back of our minds that if we can't do the full-blown daily trash pickup, which I think would be probably unrealistic, at least at the moment, what do we do 48 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 to get some reasonable accommodation to get folks who are paying the taxes? These are people who are paying taxes, there's no question about it, 'cause I don't think they would be able to live in the condo if they weren't their taxes. The eviction process there is probably much more efficient than the typical eviction process throughout the City. What do we do to make sure that these residents who are paying -- and in most cases probably the highest real-estate taxes in the City, to give them their fair share of City services and accommodate them in that regard? So it's been a long question, but I think those are the things I'd like to talk about today.
As chair of the Public Property Committee, the Public Property Committee will be recessed till tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m. At that time, we expect to have a quorum and be able to move. There's not many complicated or controversial bills, but because of this hearing and the blight hearing, we figure it will be better to 49 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 do it at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow morning.
And the other thing -- again, 'cause I said, at the end of the day, we may not be able to have a resolution to this, but I work with many of the folks who live in condominiums 'cause I represent a significant number of them, and I've always found them to be people who are reasonable to at least sit down and try to hammer out some reasonable accommodation or agreements, is that we may need to bring in the Finance Department at some point because, you know, tax rebates, tax credits may be a part of the solution, I don't know. But I would like everything to be on the table so that at some point, we are in better shape than we are today. Councilman Ortiz and then Councilmen Councilman Rizzo.
Commissioner, again, I also want to say that you've been doing a fine job. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you.
My office is very happy with every request that we make and we have friends over there. 50 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 On the first page -- and I just want you to reconcile the different figures. On the first page in the fourth paragraph, you said the that the fiscal impact of this service expansion is equally significant. Total costs required in the first year of providing these expanded services are estimated to be $12.3 million, and the annual recurring costs are estimated to be $6.3 million. Then on the last page, the last paragraph, you mention -- you said, "Further, the proposed legislation (this bill) would potentially cost the City over $52 million in the first year and $27 million in annual operating expenses." Reconcile those two because in one, you say 12, and then 6, and in the other one, you say 52, and then recurring 27. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. Councilman, in the first instance, I'm referring strictly to the condos and co-ops, that total being the 12.3 million in the first year. If, as a result of this legislation, we're stretched into looking at all similar facilities -- tall buildings, high-rise buildings, whether they're rental properties primarily or owned as condominiums 51 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 and co-ops -- then we would add to the 17,000 condominium and co-op units that exist in the City an additional 82,000 units that we would be servicing, and that's how you --
So you're not talking about the proposed legislation that we're looking at, because in the second paragraph, you have the proposed legislation. That is not talking about the future and whatever that may bring. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's referring to the effect of passage -- the potential effect of the passage of the proposed legislation. I might also point out that in reference to -- along these same lines, in reference to rental units and rental issues, this issue of condos and co-ops versus apartment units is very great. We did a quick survey only to discover that there are 70 individuals and 70 entities in the City of Philadelphia that own over 2300 condominiums. So I doubt that they're living in all 2300 of them. Most of them are probably rented out just like apartment buildings. In fact, there are entire condo buildings, quote/unquote, in Center City that operate like apartments, 100 percent rented out. 52 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
But the issue is, the owner of that apartment pays property tax, and you could have someone that owns a house and rents it out and still pays property tax and gets the garbage picked up. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct, but --
I think the issue of fairness is that even though the owner may not be living in it and may be renting it, that owner is still paying the property tax just as every other property owner in the City of Philadelphia pays, and they get their garbage picked up. (Applause.) COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think it was in response to, I guess, the appearance that the individuals that we're talking about here are primarily people that own and occupy their units. And in large part in Philadelphia, what we're finding is that these are simply large-scale investment properties that are occupied in large part by renters. (Audience members boo.) COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: There happen to be 53 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 70 people in Philadelphia that own over 2300 units.
Do you have substantive data for that? Can you give that and submit that data to the Chair of the committee?
I think, Commissioner, I think if we go down that path, we are really opening up a can of worms that we don't need, because I would wonder what the percentage of homes, row homes that are owned in the City that are owner-occupied. I know of individuals that have 100, 200 rental row homes. Are we going to remove them, exclude them from having their trash picked up? I think we've got to be careful about that.
And the co-ops are all owned by the people who are residents. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay. I think the point that I'm making is that if they are apartment buildings that are multi-unit buildings with 100-plus units in it, we would no collect them, and under this legislation, we would not collect them. However, there are condos out there that operate just like apartment buildings, and that's how I can see passage of this legislation stretching into the argument of, why aren't we collecting the apartment 54 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 building that's right next door to the condo but is considered a condo because it's owned differently than the apartment? That was the purpose.
I think that that argument could be made in a lot of different ways and a lot of different issues. I mean, we just did a 10-year tax abatement on real estate taxes so that if a person who lives in a home that has been living in it for a number of years all of a sudden has a new neighbor who built a new home from the ground up isn't paying any real-estate taxes, I think we all begin to understand that in order for this city to continue to grow, that some of these things are necessary to happen, and people will understand that they're paying real estate taxes although their neighbor may not be paying for 10 years, but that's okay because we now have a new resident and they're contributing to the tax base. And that's what really this is all about: People who are contributing to the tax base, whether they're owner-occupied or renting them to someone who is spending their dollars in the City of Philadelphia, which keeps the economy going and keeps our neighborhoods vital. 55 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 So I'm not suggesting that if this doesn't pass that all of these people are going to move, but I think it sends a message that we really do care about our residents and we're going to give them the best bang for their buck as possible because they're entitled to it, whether you live in a row home that is a rental unit and you're renting it or owning it, or whether you live in a luxury high-rise. Everyone, I think, is entitled to that equal amount of services that they're paying taxes for in the first place. (Applause.)
Excuse me. There's a gentleman in the back who keeps raising his hand. Sir, if you wish to say something, get your name on the witness list and you're more than welcome to testify. Councilman Clarke has another meeting to attend that he's needed to be at, and we don't think he'll be back in time for the conclusion of this hearing, so we're going to do a technical maneuver. What we're going to do is recess the public hearing, go into the public meeting so that the vote can be taken from this committee, and then go back into the 56 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 public hearing. We want you all to stay, we want to hear everything you have to say, but we do want to get -- Councilman Clarke wants to have his vote recorded, but he'd like to make a statement before that. Councilman Clarke.
Councilman, before we take the vote, I just want to make one brief statement and then we can go into the public meeting. I will, in fact, be voting for this bill, but with the understanding that -- (Applause.)
With the understanding that as a Councilperson on the final passage of this bill, I would really like to see something that makes some sense. I'm extremely concerned about some of the testimony that I've heard with respects to the potential costs associated with this bill and the operational concerns. Understanding that -- I think that I could leave my vote, understanding that it will further the discussion. Knowing Councilman DiCicco as a person who is always trying to work out the best accommodations for everybody, I feel 57 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 comfortable that we will in fact look at some possibilities that can be acceptable to the City of Philadelphia and to the citizens in the condominiums, but I wanted to give that statement prior to the vote. - - - 58 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
Okay, we will now go into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen. Hold on, hold on, give him the mic, please. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
This is not a new subject; it's been one that's been here for a long time. I'm a kind of veteran of public service and, respectfully, I agree with my colleagues about the fine work the Commissioner does in collecting trash and all of the other functions of the Department, and we'd like to spread his services to all of the Philadelphians who live in the City. (Applause.)
And I believe that the best way of moving forward on this would be to have an indication as to how the committee feels by having its vote now, subject always to reconsideration at a later time and, therefore, I am moving that the committee report out favorably Bill 22 No. 010659 with a favorable recommendation for consideration by the City Council. (Duly seconded.)
Don't suspend the 59 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING rules.
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010659 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Those opposed, nay? The motion passes. (Applause.) - - - 60 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
We will now go back into our public hearing The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Johnson, before I start, I'd also like to congratulate you. In your short period of time, I've seen lots of significant positive changes -- the technology and the response to constituent requests has really been impressive to me. Commissioner, I don't want to reinvent the wheel here, but from your experience, you've been other places, I assume that knowing that this hearing was going to occur, that you've done some research on how other cities deal with this particular issue. Could you report on New York, Chicago, Boston? How do those municipalities, their sanitation divisions, deal with this issue? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Councilman, it's very inconsistent. It seems to be driven by local ordinance. I believe New York does provide the service. I believe Baltimore provides the service but charges an annual fee to condo owners. Miami 61 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 treats theirs as commercial, and they have to go strictly out to third-party companies to handle it. So it's kind of all over the board on how it's dealt with. I think here in Philadelphia, it hasn't historically been done because the City hasn't been involved in the commercial business at all, and many of these accounts are collected more similar to the way -- the manner that commercial accounts are collected. Many of them may have compacting units, many of them may have metal bins on wheels, some of those metal bins are collected by rear-end loader trucks, some are collected by front-end loader trucks, and some are collected by what we call "roll-off trucks." The City's fleet consists 100 percent for trash collection or rear-end loader trucks. We don't run any front-end loader trucks or any roll-off trucks, and we do not maintain any facilities to maintain switch-out, wash and cleaning metal containers or compactors. So those are all things that we would have to add in order to provide that service.
Commissioner, 62 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 Councilman DiCicco touched on the fact that we might have to do a tax credit or some type of a financial arrangement and let the condominiums continue to do what they do but give them some financial consideration for doing that. I personally have a problem with the fact that if you have an apartment building and, you know, you brought it up, that that's treated differently than a condominium. In my opinion, a rental property -- a property, there's taxes being paid, whether it be a row home occupied by the owner, a apartment building that is a rental situation, the taxes are being paid and those folks are not getting necessarily all of the services that those taxes normally go to, whether it be an apartment building or a condominium. So I personally am supportive of this legislation because I think the system, as it is presently structured, is unfair. Thank you. (Applause.)
Commissioner, in your experience, when an apartment house becomes a condo, 63 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 what has historically been the effect on the revenue received by the municipality in the form of real-estate taxes? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Unfortunately, Councilman, I can't answer that question. I think someone from Finance may be more appropriate to answer that question.
Is there anyone here from the -- because I think that's a very important question to answer. My understanding, my research indicates that when there is that transformation from an apartment house owned, say, by a single individual or a single corporation, and when it's converted into a condominium, the City's revenue increases enormously on real-estate taxes. And it seems to me unfair at that point to deprive the owners of the benefits that all other owners get. It may be a complicated situation, it may have to be tailor-made in a number of instances. No 21 one wants to put the City at a disadvantageous position, but at the same time, the element of fairness to all homeowners is extremely important. If the City is going to attract and people at every income level, it's got to be fair at every income 64 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 level. And I think that troubles us because we feel that certain homeowners are being denied rights even though the evidence seems clear from every study I've seen that when there's transformation to condominiums, the real estate revenue to the municipality increases enormously, and a portion of that increase certainly ought to be returned to the new homeowners living in a condo in the form of receipt of normal ownership privileges, being residents of the City of Philadelphia. And, therefore, I think if you take the vote that was cast in this public meeting, if you take it seriously and understand that we want a very serious approach to this problem. If the City Administration does not take that approach seriously, I think this Council is going to vote the bill in a blanket form. If the City Administration begins to pay attention to it, I think we can get answers to this problem that everybody will agree is fair. And so I would just suggest to the Administration to take the vote of the committee that occurred a moment ago in which we voted 65 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 unanimously, calling for the full Council to approve this bill, take it seriously, come up with proposals quickly, and let's begin seeing to it that all citizens have a basis for feeling that they're being treated fairly. Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. (Applause.)
And I would just like to add to that I think the sincerity that Councilman Cohen is talking about is there because we obviously didn't ask for a suspension of rules, and I would be hard-pressed to say that if you had more than one or two people in the Committee of the Whole voting against it, you would probably have a lot. So, you know, we want to work and work towards some reasonable conclusion to this. And responsible leadership on your part -- and I know we'll get it from you -- will be helpful. Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
Anyone else going to testify on the panel? (No response.)
All right, thank you. 66 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 On the next panel is Beverly Sherman, Josh, Bernstein, Marsha Bacal, and Edward Edelstein. (Witnesses come forward.)
I'm going to excuse myself. We're running behind, as you know, today, and Councilman Ortiz -- obviously you know I'm on your side and going to be listening but I need to talk to someone on the side.
Good afternoon. I'm Beverly Sherman and I thank you for this opportunity to speak to City Council. I am the General Manager of Society Hill Towers, a condominium that houses 700 homeowners. Today, I am speaking on behalf of City Council Bill 010659. This bill, introduced by Councilman Kenney, Cohen, and DiCicco, would correct a long-standing inequity in the collection of trash in the City of Philadelphia. As it now stands, all condos and co-op homeowners and residents in Philadelphia must pay private trash haulers to have 67 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 their trash removed, even though they pay City taxes, which includes trash collection. But owners of row homes, twins, and single-family homes have their trash picked up by the City, and we condo owners do not. As Councilman Kenney has said, this is a matter of simple fairness. Why should the condo buildings in the City have to pay for private trash hauling while the rest of the City pays nothing, even though we pay taxes as well as they do? In fact, this is just one more example of the discriminatory practices of the City that have placed an unusually high burden on us. Many of the residents of the Towers are retired men and women living on fixed incomes. They are former union members whose children have married and left their home. They're teachers and small-business owners, and many are young singles just starting out in the business world. For all of these people, the convenience, the security, the accessibility of high-rise living in the heart of a wonderful major city makes good sense to them, but we can't expect to continue to attract these people who pay their taxes, work hard, 68 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 spend money in the City, and make few demands on the City. They will not stay in Philadelphia if their fees and taxes are continually increased. In addition to the inequities in trash collection, the City has instituted a large yearly increase in our property taxes and a proposed hefty increase in water and sewer rates, all of which specifically target condominium residents almost exclusively. Philadelphia has lost population in the last decade and had a new outflow of nearly 70,000 residents between 1990 and 2000. One of the primary reasons for the large decline in the population of our city is the undue tax burden placed on middle-class taxpayers. We are asking -- all we are asking is that the City be fair and equal in the collection of trash for its citizens. We do not want to pay twice for a service that is already included in the taxes we pay. Dear Councilmen, we ask you to just remember this: We haven't left, we are the people who stayed in our beloved city. I thank you. (Applause.) 69 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659
My name is Arthur Werner, W-E-R-N-E-R. I am a resident of the City, I am a resident and unit owner at Academy House, and in fact, I am the President of the Academy House Condominium Residential Association where I represent approximately a thousand other citizens.
And your niece, I'll talk about her in a minute, sir, 'cause I'd like for her to stay in the building.
Good. I'm going to take a little different tack than some of the other people here because I believe the facts have already been spoken by many people very eloquently. I want to give you something a little different. 70 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 I'll tell you about my family background. My mother was from West Philadelphia, was born in West Philadelphia and my father was born in Olney. They got married in 1954 or 1955. They both left the City and moved to the suburbs where I was born. I Grew up in the suburbs, went to school in the suburbs, went to college, graduated law school. My wife has a similar background from Reading, Pennsylvania, and graduated law school. We moved to Philadelphia. I think that we kind of represent a reverse trend that can happen in this city. We have a child who lives in Academy House and is years 15 old and she has stayed in the City. Our intent is to stay in the City. The problem that I see, at least with the number of the people in Academy House, and I think maybe I'm trying to say that we have a diverse background in our building. There is a perceived inequity. I want to see if that can stop. One -- there are -- maybe there are many perceived inequities, this might be one of many. It's a start. If we can have the City of Philadelphia take care of a need that we think we have, it might be an 71 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 indication that other people like me will come into the City. I would like to see a reverse trend. I love living in the City. My office is across the street and my wife's is two blocks down.
It's beautiful. We enjoy the City, and I want more people to be that way. I would like to see the reverse. Pass this legislation and I think you're onto the start of something good, and I want to thank you very much.
Unfortunately, I have to go to another meeting. Have your niece speak with me.
My name is Joshua Bernstein. I'm an attorney, and I'm counsel to the Philadelphia Condominium Managers Association. I think a lot of points have been made today regarding the equity issue. I listened very carefully to Commissioner Johnson's testimony, and I would like to address some of the cost issues there 72 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 specifically. In anticipation of this hearing today, the Philadelphia Condominium Managers Association circulated a questionnaire to all of its members. One of the things that the PCMA wanted to find out was what are the costs of trash collection in the City of Philadelphia today for these condominium and cooperative buildings? One of the other issues that they wanted to find out in anticipation of some of Commissioner Johnson's comments was, are these condominium and cooperative units investor-occupied or are they owner-occupied? With respect to the cost issues, here's what we found out. And, again, they're very rough numbers, but I think it's important to put on the record that today, the cost of collecting trash from condominium and cooperative owners is approximately one quarter of the projected cost that the Streets Commissioner has indicated. The calculation for that is based on an estimate of approximately $100 per ton for trash removal and --
That survey that your 73 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 association has done, that -- could that be made available to the committee?
We would, Councilman Ortiz, like to complete it. It is not a full survey, but once we get all of the responses in -- but it is pretty clear, Councilman, that the cost of trash removal today is about $100 a ton, and assuming that an average condominium building has approximately 500 units and each building generates 400 tons annually, that works out to -- and finally, Councilman, assuming there even as many as 15,000 condominium unit owners in the City of Philadelphia, that number is 1.2 million, $1,200,000. Those are the dollars that condominium and cooperative homeowners are paying today for trash removal. So, of course, when we heard the Streets Commissioner testify of a projected cost of $42 million spread out over 5 years, we feel that the City of Philadelphia ought to be able to do a better job than that and ought to be able to compete with the cost of private haulers or perhaps, as some 74 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 of the other Councilman suggested, create a system of reimbursements or tax credits that would account for this difference. The other point I wanted to make relates to the status of investor-owned units. I believe that Commissioner Johnson testified that there were condominium and cooperative buildings in the City of Philadelphia that were 100 percent investor-owned. We have absolutely no knowledge of that. And in fact, here's what our survey indicates. For example, the -- I'll just give you a couple quick ones. The Barkley has 122 units and 10 are investor-owned.
Yes. An investor-owned condominium unit would be a unit that is not occupied by the owner; it would be rented out. And I believe that Commissioner Johnson had testified that he felt there would be an inequity in providing services to what are essentially rental properties clothed as condominium buildings. And, in fact, what the survey shows is that for the example of 220 West Rittenhouse Square, there are 94 units and none 75 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 of them or investor occupied; at Park Plaza Condominium, there are 350 units, and only 30 or investor-occupied; at Independence Place, there are 489 units, 50 are investor-owned; and 1820 Rittenhouse Square, 32 units, none of them are owned by investors.
If someone owned 9 rowhouses and they rented them out, their garbage 10 would be picked up by the City, right?
So just because someone owns a couple different apartments, they pay property tax. It's the same sort of relationship. I'm trying to find where the relationships, the differences are in terms of it and the fairness and the equity issue.
The answer appears to be, there is no difference between a residential home that is leased out. There again, the City is picking up trash for the benefit of the owner of that property who leases that out or a condominium unit. But the point I wanted to make is that 76 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 there is a misconception which is frequently held that condominium buildings are apartment buildings, that they are operated for a profit. And in fact, what we find is that that's simply not the case. The vast, vast majority of condominium units in the City of Philadelphia are occupied by residents, homeowners and taxpayers such as yourselves.
Maybe you can help me here. I believe the City Code even provides limited trash removal from some businesses. I believe that they can put out one or two, if they chose to, containers of trash, and the City would pick that up. Do you know about that?
I might be wrong, but I believe that I recollect that a business had the ability to put out two or three -- you know, I don't know how they even came up with this, but they had a number of cans, and even in a residential environment, just so you know, I believe that you are limited to the number of receptacles that you're permitted to put out on any given day. Again, I 77 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 don't recollect the numbers -- this is something that's just coming out of my memory bank from several years ago. Is there anyone here still from the Streets Department that could tell us about what businesses -- I'm disappointed that the Streets Department would leave and not listen to this testimony, but I would like someone to --
Just for the record, I'll ask the question that I would like to know what a business -- even though most businesses exceed and probably elect not to even deal with putting out just limited, so a business, from what I recollect, is permitted to put out a trash container or two on any given trash day. I'd like them to deal with that.
If I may respond to that, obviously, that would be an inequity.
That's why I'm asking it, that's why I'm bringing up the question.
Mr. Bernstein, you heard the Commissioner's testimony and you saw the 78 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 numbers that he put out in terms of what it would cost the city. In one, he mentioned 12.3 million and recurring cost of $3.6 million. If your association -- I don't expect an answer right now, but if your association can look into those numbers and really give us a sense of what realistic numbers are and so on, I'd just like to see another side of it from your perspective.
I'm sure the association would be happy to do that. And, of course, we appreciate the cost-conscious nature of this inquiry. To the extent that there's a perception that it's going to be too expensive for this trash pickup to occur, even on a daily basis, I think the numbers will bear out that that is not the case.
I would really appreciate it if your association can help us. Thank you very much.
If you wouldn't mind, Councilman, there's one more fact that I think is really interesting and relevant. We've been talking about the cost to the City and the construction of the trucks and whether they could accommodate it. I 79 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 think you might like to know that at Society Hill Towers when the private trash truck comes, it takes about to minutes for him to remove our trash. 5 And I venture to say -- although I'm not a 6 sanitation expert -- it must take longer to remove 7 700 homes' trash than 10 or 15 minutes. 8 I thank you. 9 (Applause.) 10
You can see what they 11 do in one block. Thank you. 12
Thank you, Councilman 13 Ortiz. 14 Anyone else here who wishes to testify? 15
My name is Marsha Bacal, and I live at Society Hill Towers, and I honestly cannot add very much to what has been said, but there is just one point I would like to make. I will leave it to the sanitation engineers and the numbers crunchers to figure out how you work this thing out, but work it out you must, you must, because it is patently discriminatory, it is unfair. My grandmother lived at Eighth and Rodman. I don't know who picked up her trash, but I lived in 80 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010659 a house in Olney and they picked up my trash. I lived in a house above Fox Chase, and they picked up my trash. I live in Society Hill Towers, and they do not pick up my trash. I own my apartment 6 years. I have paid approximately $1500 or more for 7 trash removal, and that's a guess, but it's close. 8 Something is wrong. And I understand the 9 economics of it but I don't think they're relevant. 10 I think the only thing that is relevant here is that 11 you're perpetuating an inequity and it needs to be 12 addressed however you see fit to address it, but it 13 needs to be addressed. 14 That's all I have. Thank you. 15
Thank you, thank you 16 for your testimony 17 (Applause.) 18
I just got a call, and 20 this is interesting. A business in the City of 21 Philadelphia can put out six 32-gallon barrels or 12 bags of trash each day of trash day. So there's another inequity if a business can put out six 32-ounce gallon containers or 12 bags of trash and you can't. 81 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010496
Thank you. Are there any other witnesses? I stepped out of the out of room so I apologize. Are there any other witnesses who wish to speak? You can come to the witness table. (No response.)
Thank you, thank you all for coming. This concludes the -- we have other bills so I need to -- thank you, thank you for coming, and have a good holiday, everyone. The clerk will read tile of the next bill.
Bill 010496, an ordinance 14 authorizing Richard Ley to construct, own, and maintain a private pole and electric appurtenances in an area over, on, and under the south footway of the 3800 block of Powelton Avenue for supplying electric service to his vendor truck, all under certain terms and conditions. (Witness comes forward.)
We thought it wouldn't come. Good afternoon, Chairman, and members of the committee, my name is Nancy Sen and I'm an 82 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010496 engineering supervisor for the Streets Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 010496 on behalf of the Department, which authorizes Mr. Richard Ley to construct and maintain an aerial electric connection for his vendor truck located in the 3800 block of Powelton Avenue. The encroachments are as follows: One private pole with electric meter, lock receptacle, and ground rod to be installed in the south footway of Powelton Avenue beside the vendor truck. The center line of this pole is to be located approximately 300 feet west of the west curbline of 38th Street and approximately 1-foot-6 south of the south curbline of Powelton. Also, an aerial electric service feed line to run between the proposed private pole described above and an existing PECO pole located in the south footway of Powelton Avenue. The encroachments leave adequate width and clearance of unobstructed footway. It should be noted, however, that the Department has been working with Council on other alternate sources of energy to serve vendor needs in the University City District. The Streets Department is prepared to approve this 83 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010603 one location as a variation of a new policy, and we would request that this encroachment be removed at a later date if a new policy is enacted for the University City District area. Thank you.
Any questions for this witness? I have none. Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill 14
Bill 010603, an ordinance 15 granting permission to Nick Mangini and N.C. Mangini Newsstand, owner of the newsstand located on the north footway of Oregon Avenue west of Swanson Street, to construct, use, and maintain overhead electrical and telecommunications lines from an existing utility pole over and across the north footway of Oregon Avenue for the purpose of supplying electrical and phone service to his newsstand, under certain terms and conditions.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I'm Nancy Sen, and I'm here on behalf of the Streets 84 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010603 Department to testify on Bill No. 010603. This bill authorizes Mr. Nick Mangini to construct, use, and maintain an aerial electric and phone connection to his newsstand located on Oregon Avenue west of Swanson Street. The encroachments are as follows: Electric wires, telephone wires, and all appurtenances installed above the north footway of Oregon Avenue, connecting a newsstand on Oregon Avenue located approximately 153 west of the west curbline of Swanson Street under the I-95 right-of-way to an existing PECO pole located on the north footway of Oregon Avenue, which is approximately 173 feet west of the west curbline of Swanson Street. All of the encroachments leave adequate width and clearance of unobstructed footway. Therefore, the Streets Department has no objection to the passage of this bill. Thank you.
Anyone else here who 85 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010616 wishes to testify? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill 010616, an ordinance 7 authorizing Ben Franklin Foods, Inc., tenant of the property 3801 Salmon Street, Philadelphia, PA, 19137, to construct, use, and maintain two one-story building additions and a fence on and over Salmon Street adjacent to the property 3801 Salmon Street, all under certain terms and conditions.
Again, my name is Nancy Sen. I'm here to testify for the Streets Department on Bill No. 010616. This bill grants permission to Ben Franklin Foods, tenants of Segal, Corda & Cohen Realty Partnership to construct various footway encroachments on the public right-of-ways surrounding their facility being renovated near the intersection the Butler Street and Salmon Street. The encroachments are as follows: An 8-foot high chain-link fence projecting into the Salmon Street south footway encroaching a maximum of approximately 2-foot-8 north of the South 86 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010616 right-of-way line of Salmon Street; a one-story building addition projecting into the Salmon Street footway, encroaching a maximum of approximately 11-foot-3 north of the south right-of-way line of Salmon Street; and a one-story modular office building addition projecting into the Salmon Street south footway, encroaching a maximum of approximately 2-foot-7 north of the south right-of-way line of Salmon Street. All encroachments leave adequate width and clearance of unobstructed footway. Therefore, the Streets Department has no objection to the passage of this bill. Thank you.
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 010661, an ordinance 25 authorizing National Railroad Passenger Corporation, 87 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010661 60 Massachusetts Avenue, Washington, DC, 2002, owner of the property on the north side of the south side of the 2900 block of Arch Street, Philadelphia, PA 19104, its successors and assigns, to construct, own, and maintain a pedestrian bridge and vertical transportation structure on and over and below the Arch Street public right-of-way adjacent to 30th Street Station, under certain terms and conditions.
Again, good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. My name is Nancy Sen and I'm here for the Streets Department to testify on Bill No. 13 010661. This bill authorizes the National Railroad Passenger Corporation, known as "Amtrak," to construct and maintain the following encroachments above and below the public right-of-way of Arch Street: One 3-span glass-enclosed steel pedestrian bridge spanning across the 100 foot wide Arch Street right-of-way, approximately 29 feet wide, the center line of which is located approximately 109 feet east of the east right-of-way line of 30th Street; a minimum vertical clearance of approximately 16-foot-6 is maintained above the Arch Street cartway; a staircase structure near the south end of 88 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010661 the center span is to be built between the Arch Street level and a bridge pedestrian level, leaving a minimum vertical clearance above the Arch Street curbline of approximately 13-foot-6; also one vertical transportation structure consisting of an elevator and revolving staircase connected to the west face of the pedestrian bridge. This structure encroaches into the Arch Street right-of-way for a maximum distance of approximately feet. It's 11 approximately 17-feet-6 wide and the west face of 12 the structure's located 77 feet east of the east 13 right-of-way line of 30th Street. 14 The Streets Department has reviewed the 15 preliminary plans for this project and we have no 16 objection to the passage of this bill. 17 Thank you. 18
Next witness, please 19 identify yourself for the record. 20
I'm William McDowell, Senior Director for Asset Development of Amtrak. I brought just a brief testimony here. I say the purpose of Bill No. 010661 is to authorize Amtrak to construct, own, and maintain a pedestrian bridge on, over, and below Arch Street. The project 89 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010661 will provide a safe pedestrian crossing of Arch Street from the existing parking lot north of Arch Street directly into the station. Presently, pedestrians, often carrying large bags, must look for breaks in the westbound traffic and run across the roadway just to get to the station and vice versa. The design of the bridge is sensitive to the historic architectural qualities of the station and has been reviewed and approved by the Philadelphia Art and Historic Commission. The project is designed to promote and accommodate future private development, including a structured parking garage, which will benefit from the direct connection to Amtrak and SEPTA services. I also have some architectural renderings of the bridge, if anybody needs to see it. Amtrak believes that the project will provide a much-needed physical improvement to the area that will eliminate a hazardous pedestrian condition and promote the use of rail and encourage future development of the area. Amtrak appreciates the committee's consideration of this bill and also requests that 90 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010661 the rules be suspended.
Thank you, appreciate your testimony. Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Bill No. 010559, an ordinance 11 authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 58 by placing on the City Plan Marvine Street from Brown Street to Parrish Street, Ogden Street from Tenth Street to 11th Street, and Ogden Place from Tenth Street eastwardly to a dead-end turnaround under certain terms and conditions, including the dedication to the City free and clear of all encumbrances of the beds of Marvine Street, Ogden Street, and Ogden Place.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee. My name is Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager of the Department of Streets, and the Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on Bill No. 010559. This is not an administration ordinance 91 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010559 but an ordinance requested by Ms. Helen Ferris, Senior Counsel of the Philadelphia Housing Authority, South 23rd Street, Philadelphia, PA, 5 19103. 6 The purpose of this ordinance is to grant 7 the legal authority to place these streets on the 8 City Plan to facilitate the construction of 152 new 9 twin homes to replace the units which have been 10 demolished by PHA. 11 This ordinance is supported by the 12 Department of Streets and is recommend to your committee for favorable action.
I'm sorry. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill 010667, an ordinance 23 authorizing the revision of City Plan No. 19-S by relocating a certain right-of-way for drainage purpose, water main purposes, and gas main purposes 92 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010667 lying within the lines of former Mifflin Street between Water Street and Swanson Street, under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee. My name is Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager of the Department of Streets, and the Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on Bill No. 010667. This is not an administration ordinance 11 but an ordinance requested by Mr. Russel McFall of Langan Engineering and Environmental Services, One Penn Center, 1617 JFK Boulevard, Philadelphia, PA, who represents Target Corporation. The purpose of this ordinance is to relocate an existing right-of-way to accommodate a building addition. This ordinance is supported by the Streets Department and is recommended to your committee for favorable action.
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.) 93 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010335
Before we begin with the next bill, I like to advise all members of the Streets and Services Committee to please report to the chambers so that we can vote the bills out of committee. All members of the Streets and Services Committee, would you please report to the chamber so we can vote the bills out of committee. Thank you Please proceed.
The next bill is Bill 010335, an ordinance revising parking regulations on Pine Street, south side, from 42nd Street to 43rd Street. (Witness comes forward.)
I'm Catherine DeCina and I'm with the Philadelphia Parking Authority. Bill No. 010335, introduced by Councilwoman Blackwell. This bill revises parking regulations on Pine Street, south side, between 42nd Street and 43rd Street. The regulations are for 2-hour parking, 8 am to 6:30 p.m. except Saturday and Sunday. The following regulation was hereby established: 2-hour parking, 8 a.m. to midnight Monday through Sunday. 94 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010606 The regulations have been in effect for a period of eight months with no apparent problems. The Philadelphia Parking Authority recommends favorable consideration of this bill.
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill 010606, an ordinance 15 establishing a no-truck-parking and tow-away zone regulation on Vine Street, from 54th Street to 63rd Street, both sides. (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon and thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Chairman and committee members. My name is Charles Denny, and I am Assistant Chief Traffic Engineer. I'm here to testify on Bill No. 010606. 95 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010606 The Streets Department has no objections to this bill, but we do recommend that regulations be posted under a trial ordinance. A hearing will be held in six months, and area residents and businesses would have an opportunity to comment on this regulation at that time after seeing how the regulation operates. The actual test of the posting will be no 10 tractor-trailer or truck tractor parking at any time with a tow-away zone rider. We can have the signs posted within six weeks with Councilman Nutter's approval.
Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just make sure I understand the particulars here. That was the Vine Street bill 22 that you read?
Now, what did you say about temporary regulations? Did you say something 96 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010606 about that?
To post it as a trial regulation and have that posted within six weeks.
Okay. Was there some particular reason why you wanted to have a trial regulation?
The trial regulation gives people an opportunity to comment if they're unhappy with the regulation after they see how it's working.
Okay, I understand. And at the same time, you understand my interest in actually having --
-- the bill voted on. That's the whole reason that we're here. You're committing to putting the signs up regardless?
The clerk will please read the title of the next bill.
Bill 010618, an ordinance 23 establishing a no-truck-parking and tow-away zone regulation on Haverford Avenue from 68th Street to Brockton Road, both sides. 97 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010618
Good afternoon again. My name is Charles Denny, and I'm here to testify on Bill 4 No. 010618. The Streets Department has no objection to this bill, but we do recommend regulations be posted on a trial ordinance. A hearing will be held in six months, and area residents and businesses would have an opportunity to comment on the regulation at that time after seeing how the regulation operates. The actual text of the posting will be "no 12 tractor-trailer or truck tractor parking anytime," with a tow-away zone rider. We can have the signs posted within four weeks with Councilman Nutter's approval.
Thank you, Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First let me inquire, why was it six weeks on the one and four weeks on the other?
There is less signs on the Haverford Avenue case, which is only around two blocks long, where the other one is a much longer area of nine blocks. 98 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010618
I understand. All right, very good. I'm glad you had an answer. Secondly, I received a request, as I did on the Vine Street -- I mean, I want to assure you and certainly the Chair that I don't kind of dream these things up in the middle of the night. I've received requests on both of these because of continual problems with these tractor-trailers parking. The only way we can get enforcement from the Police Department is to have proper signage so that there is due process. I have a letter, one, from a constituent on this; and two, a memo actually from the First Highway District also making a request to have these signs in place on Haverford Avenue. So as I said with the first bill, I understand why you may want to proceed on a trial basis. Naturally, I'd like to have a bill done in place. You've committed to putting the signs up regardless; is that correct?
Thank you. 99 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010341 Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 010341, an ordinance 10 establishing a regulation on the 7100 block of North Uber Street.
Good afternoon. Again, my name is Charles Denny and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 010341. The Streets Department supports this bill, but we do recommend that the regulations be posted on a trial ordinance. A hearing can held in six months and the area residents and businesses would have an opportunity to comment on the regulation at that time after seeing how the regulation operates. As requested, we will post the street as a one-way southbound street. We can have the signs posted within four weeks, with Councilwoman Tasco's approval.
Any questions for 100 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010619 this witness? (No questions.)
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 010619, an ordinance 10 amending Section 9-403 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Motor Buses," by adding a provision which prohibits the loading and unloading of passengers at off-street locations on City Avenue from 47th Street to Belmont Avenue, east side.
Anyone here to testify on this bill? Councilman Nutter?
Mr. Chairman, I apologize that I don't have my written testimony with me. It's still being prepared at this time.
Did you submit it within 24 hours? 101 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010619
I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Is this about trash pickup or is this about casino buses?
Buses. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a very serious problem in that area with the loading and unloading of passengers. Initially, this problem existed out in the roadway. That has been prohibited. Now we're finding that the buses are doing it on private property. What results from that, Mr. Chairman, is a tremendous inconvenience to my constituents in the area because of the cars that are being parked so that people can then go to the off-street location to get on these buses. And it is affecting the Belmont Village section of my district. And that's the reason for this bill. Numerous constituents have complained about this issue over a long period of time.
I think the solution to that would be riverboat gambling in Philadelphia, and you wouldn't have to worry about those buses 102 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010620 winding up there. A subject for another day?
Yeah. Mayor Rendell may bring that back in his gubernatorial campaign.
I'll tell you what: You want to make money, you can bet on that never coming up again. Thank you, thank you, Councilman. The clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill 010620, an ordinance 13 amending Section 10-722 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Use of Dumpsters," by adding a new subsection providing for hours of collection on City Avenue from 47th Street to Belmont Avenue, east side.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is a very serious problem for my constituents who live behind what is a relatively small shopping area. The businesses on City Avenue, the back of those businesses are across the street from the front of my constituents' homes 103 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010620 in again this Belmont Village section. We have not been able to get cooperation from the business owner with regard to the time of trash pickup, and it is my understanding from the constituent that the trash pickup is from time to time in the 4 a.m. to 5 a.m. time period, which is totally inconvenient and, quite frankly, outrageous for my constituents. The business owner refuses to adjust the trash pickup time with their rubbish company, and so we're now compelled to force them to get trash picked up in more reasonable hours, both in the morning and in the evening.
I thought it was illegal to pick up trash before 7 a.m. anyway in the City, isn't that correct?
I thought that that was my understanding. We have not been able to get complete enforcement on that, so we needed some specific requirements in this particular area. It is pretty much the only area to my knowledge that we're having this level of problem.
I was having problems with the delicatessen about a half a block from where I live, and they pick up on the Federal Street 104 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010620 side and I could hear it every morning around 3, 3:30, but I think L&I contacted the trash hauler and basically told them that they're in violation. And since then, we've been pretty lucky, but I wish you luck.
Anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
This concludes the public hearing on the committee. We need one more for a quorum. Councilman Cohen, Councilman Ortiz, and Councilman Rizzo are in the chambers. We need one more person for a quorum. Councilman Goode or Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, if you would please come to the chambers so we can conclude the Committee on Streets and Services. We need you to vote these bills out of committee. Thank you. (Councilwoman Donna Reed 105 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - BILL 010620 Miller returns to Council chambers.) 106 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
The public meeting of the Committee on Streets and Services is now in session. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 010335 be out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit hearing at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010335 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
I move that Bill 010496 be moved out of committee With a favorable 107 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010496 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it, the bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 010559 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly 108 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING moved and seconded that Bill No. 010559 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 010603 be, moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010603 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz. 109 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 010606 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010606 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 010616 be voted out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly 110 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING moved and seconded that Bill No. 010616 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 010618 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of City Council (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010618 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. 111 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING Those opposed? The bill is approved. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 010619 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010619 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 010620 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit 112 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING first reading at our next session of City Council (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010620 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 010661 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading in the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010661 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit 113 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 010667 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010667 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Chairman, I move 114 12/12/01 STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING that Bill 010341 be moved out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 010341 reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended in order to permit first reading at our next Council session. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. Those opposed? The bill is approved. This concludes the public meeting on the Committee of Streets and Services. Thank you all for attending. (Proceedings conclude at 3:10 p.m.) - - - 115 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Council Committee on Streets and Services of Wednesday, December 12, 2001, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Bill No's: 010335, 010341, 010496, 010559, 010603, 010606, 010616, 010618, 010619, 010620, 010659, 010661, 010667 _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)