Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam Chair. 57 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. Is this time sensitive? Do you have to get approval from this committee to move on this legislation by a certain time or would you -- then would you lose the ability to make the low-interest loans?
No. I don't think one is tied to the other. We have settled on the loan on Friday. We have actually issued approximately $106 million worth of projects that are out the door and contractors are working right now, thanks to Councilman Kenney. He was a big help on that. So those projects are out and are moving forward right now. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. Thank you. No other questions. Thanks.
Okay. Thank you very much. Any other questions? (No response.)
Thank you. 58 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. The next bill, the Clerk will read the bill.
Bill No. 090705, an ordinance amending Bill No. 090325, entitled "An ordinance approving the Fiscal Year 2010 Capital Budget providing for expenditures for the capital purposes of the Philadelphia Gas Works (including the supplying of funds in connection therewith) subject to certain constraints and conditions, and acknowledging receipt of the Forecast of Capital Budgets for Fiscal Years 2011 through 2015" by approving a revised Capital Budget for 59 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. Fiscal Year 2010. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you. Chairwoman Tasco, members of the Committee, I'm Janet Parrish, the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Gas Commission.
Good morning. I'm William Gallagher. I'm Director of Budget and Reporting for the Philadelphia Gas Works.
Good morning. I'm Doug Moser, Vice-President of Gas Management.
Mr. White, who was scheduled to testify, the Acting Chief 60 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. Operating Officer, was unable to be here today.
Thank you. We're very pleased to be here today to have the opportunity to testify in support of Bill 9 090705, which proposes that Council approve a $2.5 million amendment to Philadelphia Gas Works' approved Fiscal Year 2010 Capital Budget, and the bill 13 does embody the recommendations of the Philadelphia Gas Commission, which were adopted at its meeting on September 22nd of this year. You have attached to my written testimony the copy of the Resolution and Order duly issued by the Commission and reflecting that action. We are here today to recommend that Council support this amendment to enable PGW to complete a Consolidated Fire and Hazard Protection/Detection System at its Richmond liquid natural gas facility. It's a project that's already 61 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. in process and will require additional funding in order for it to be completed in accordance with the requirements of engineering consultants. So we do ask for your approval, as well as if you would report the bill out of Committee today with a favorable recommendation and a suspension of the rules so we may have first reading at the next session of Council.
Please speak to the process by which you went through to identify your engineering consultants.
An RFP was 62 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. prepared and put out on the street, and bids were obtained and are evaluated and we made a selection.
Just to add to that, if I may, Councilwoman, Philadelphia Gas Works does follow the City's procedures for non-competitively bid contracts. So those RFPs are typically posted on the Philadelphia Gas Works website in a process that is parallel to that used by the City. My understanding is that that was done in conjunction with an agreement with the City Law Department.
Okay. Could you attach a timeframe to what you just stipulated, sir?
For the bids went out, you reviewed the bids, you made a selection. Just attach a line, a timeframe to that.
I don't have that specific one. We can provide it for 63 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. you.
I don't believe so. I think they're Jersey based, Flemington Construction.
We'll double-check. I don't believe so. I mean, this is specialized work as far as that's concerned. It was a large project. I'll check who was the bidders, but I think there was only two bidders that responded to this.
Forgive 64 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. me. There were only two?
So the stipulation and the request and the expectation will be the same as the preceding witnesses going forward. In instances where we're being asked to do business with any entity in government or out of government where Philadelphia, this body, our Mayor, is being asked to put X number of dollars on the line, we want detailed information with who we're ultimately going to do business with.
Because the concern remains local businesspeople. I believe the former Councilman introduced a measure around that. People of color and women. If we are putting out whatever the amount you just stipulated, Blondell Reynolds Brown is not comfortable with seeing those dollars go to a Jersey firm. And it's helpful to 65 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. bring the back-up documentation, because I have come from a school of thought, if it's not written, it doesn't exist, wherein we have to rely purely on verbal testimony with no back-up documentation.
Understood, ma'am. I'll make sure that happens next time and we will --
Is this your first time speaking before this legislative body?
Is this your first time speaking before this legislative body?
So it's not a surprise that we are going to be very, very consistent with this information, or else the downside becomes I won't act on the bill in a favorable manner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Fair enough. 66 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. Thank you very much.
Let me just say this, and I appreciate your concern, Councilwoman Brown. Certainly we at the Gas Commission, two of us serve on that Commission and are mindful of minority participation. Recently PGW was cited for their record of minority participation. A lot of the contracts that are let are highly technical and you will find a limited number of companies doing business in this area, because it is related to pipes and all that kind of stuff. But to the extent that they can, I have to give PGW credit for being very mindful of diversity. Councilman Kenney. But they will when they come next time to testify, particularly when we have the Capital Budget -- they're in the process or will be in the process of presenting the Capital Budget to the Gas Commission. Once that -- and that 67 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. process is vetted very thoroughly and then we bring it to the Council. Usually when we come to the Council, we've kind of chewed it up, spit it out about 6 times, especially with Janet sitting over 7 there giving them a hard time. But she 8 is cooperative and she's very mindful of 9 what we talk about here in the Council. 10 But it would be helpful the 11 next time just to add that information to 12 your testimony about the effort to reach 13 out, what happened and who got the 14 contract and all that, because that is 15 what this committee is interested in. 16 So it's not that they don't 17 have it, that they don't try to do it. 18 We'd like for you to put it on 19 the record when you come to Council, 20 particularly, Janet, when we do the Capital Budget.
Yes. I think that will be the place that will pick it up, and that way it will carry right through to the recommendation over here 68 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. to Council, and we can comment if it is a very highly technical or specialized area, where perhaps the options may be more limited than with respect to other contracts, but we can lay that out and ensure the identity of all the applicants is there.
Sometimes if the companies are able, we'd like to know who they subcontract with and who else they do business with could be helpful and if their track record is a track record that includes diversity.
When the PFMC Board approves their contracts, that's one of their major concerns that we outline, if there's any participation, before we do have a contract. So it is a major issue with the company as well as the PFMC Board.
Right. The PFMC Board has to approve the budget before it comes to -- so it's a lot of oversight. But they understand that. 69 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc.
Let me comment as a follow-up. That back story, that backdrop in context is extremely important, that you've already made it through a couple of levels prior to us asking those type of important questions. So I thank you for that, Madam Chair.
By the time they get here, they've been vetted. They've been asked so many questions that -- certainly you know Sharmain Matlock-Turner, David Seltzer, other members are on that PFMC Board, and they really are committed to inclusion at PGW, so they ask the questions. Janet is our Executive Director of the Gas Commission. They have to present their budget to the Gas Commission. There are days of public hearings where all kinds of questions are 70 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. asked. Then the Commission has to have a briefing and then we vote on it, and by the time we get it here, it's pretty much done. But it doesn't stop you from asking your question. Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a comment relative to my experience in private sector with architecture and engineering over the last eight years. If you have a large project where you have two bidders, it is extremely specialized work. Usually you'll have a large number of engineering firms and architecture firms bidding on public work like that. If it is only two bidders, it's probably very specialized. The other issue generally is -- and I've come across this in an effort to put a team together to go after public-sector work trying to find women and minority-owned businesses that are in the engineering and architecture field. 71 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. It is very, very difficult. One of the things we've not done a good job on as educational institutions go is getting more women and minority engineers and architects, because it is very difficult to find them to team with, because they don't exist. And I think from -- I mean, I've spoken in front of architecture classes at Philadelphia University, for example, and there's not one person of color in the class. We really need to do a better job in urging our kids out of high school to go into college and to get into those specialized careers of architecture and engineering, because the opportunities there are astounding. There's always public-sector work going on, especially even in the down economy, the governments are investing in capital projects, and for young people of color, women who are architects and engineers -- and we need to urge more of them to go there -- the opportunities will be endless. 72 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. So that's one of the things we maybe should look at with some of our educational institutions in the region, to try to urge more activity when it comes to kids, young people looking at architecture and engineering as a career.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would echo two things. One, that President Knutzen actually came to the MBE firm and DBE firm MED Week celebration and didn't just stay as a jester, but stayed the entire workshop and then met with firms afterwards. So as a Commissioner on the Gas Commission, I understand your commitment, but let me just speak to for a second Councilwoman Brown's comments and why they are particularly important. Councilman Kenney is absolutely right, that we don't place a high enough emphasis on recruitment of minority 73 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. engineers and in those particular disciplines, but if the question doesn't get asked by Councilwoman Blackwell -- I mean Reynolds Brown -- I'm so used to Blackwell being the champion of it. But if you don't ask those tough questions, there won't be a demand that people won't recruit to bring to those institutions. So it's important even though they have a good record to keep asking that hard question of everyone that comes before this Council. But having said that, my question is more of a technical one, and I raised this as a Commissioner. I'll put it on record here in Council. In this engineering agreement, is there ever in the present or the future going to be a study done on our infrastructure to see if hydrogen energy can go through the same infrastructure that the natural gas goes through? Because every time I hear that it can be done and that this could revolutionize 74 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. and put the Gas Works in a position to be a profitable organization, if we could just get the answer to that question. And part two is, did anyone ever get back to Councilman Kenney on the natural gas that could be found in the Poconos? Did anybody ever get back to you on that?
Believe it or not, it's right on the edge of Marcellus Shale. There's nothing under there. There may be some, a little bit, but it would be so expensive to pull it out. So it's sad, but it's not true.
On your first 75 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. question I would defer to Mr. Moser, the Vice-President of Gas Management to respond to that. I believe that Mr. White has responded to that question previously in these Chambers. Mr. Moser.
The question of the hydrogen being able to go through our piping, we did some initial studies on that. Where it stands right now is, the hydrogen is a very speculative proposition. It's a discussion that if indeed the country moves to a hydrogen-based energy, then it would be something that would be looked at closer. But what we'd have to do right now is due to our system, we don't think it's the appropriate thing to do. We have some infrastructure issues with the cast iron piping and the joints that are there. Basically what you're doing is converting from a natural gas system over to a hydrogen-based system. It's not that you can transport both products through the 76 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. same pipes.
I am not an engineer, nor do I ever intend to be, but there are several engineers that have said to me and to in particular Mr. Knutzen that in fact that infrastructure can be dual-purposed, that natural gas and hydrogen can go through it at the same time, and, in fact, it can improve the movement of natural gas more efficiently because it compacts into a smaller space and they can co-exist. I do not know all of the engineering answers to that, but it is something that is worthwhile us exploring, because if in fact we get ahead of the curve and if in fact this country goes in that direction, we go overnight into a more favorable financial situation by being able to provide dual energy to a source such as the private sector.
Could you provide contact information for those engineers 77 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. perhaps after the hearing to Mr. Moser --
Sure will. Because there was, dare I say, some speculation about getting rid of the Gas Works, which I would never vote for, by the way, but if we could overnight make it profitable, that would make a lot of our citizens happy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
That's a whole discussion for the Gas Commission. Thank you very much. Any other questions of these witnesses? (No response.)
I think they are all the bills that we have before us today. We will now adjourn our 78 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. public hearing and go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney for an amendment to Bill 090570.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The amendment I think has been circulated to the Committee. It's a technical amendment adding actually verbiage, the United Service Organizations of Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey, Incorporated, also known as Liberty USO. It's the addition of those words, and I move the amendment. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that we adopt the amendment to Bill 090570. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
There being none, the bill is amended. 79 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney to move Bill 090570 out of Committee.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 7 090570, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a request made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved that Bill No. 090570, as amended, be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so that this bill can be heard at Council's next session. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
There is no opposition. The motion is carried. Bill 090661, I'm asking Councilman Greenlee to report that bill 80 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. out of committee.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 5 090661 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill 090661 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
There being no opposition, this motion is carried. Councilwoman recognizes Councilman Goode for an amendment to Bill 19 090663.
Thank you, Madam Chair. An amendment has been circulated to members of the Committee. The amendment simply shows which banks are being deleted from the authorized list of City depositories. I move the 81 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. amendment be approved. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill 090663 be amended. All in favor? (Aye.)
There being none, the bill is amended. The Chair now calls on Councilman Goode to report the bill out as amended.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill 090663, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It has 82 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. been moved and seconded that Bill 090663, as amended, be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so that this bill can be heard at Council's next session. All in favor? (Aye.)
There being no opposition, the motion is carried. Let the record show that Bill 14 No. 090687 and 090688 are being held. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green to report out Bill 090705.
Madam Chairwoman, I move that Bill No. 090705 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and with a suspension of the rules so that it may be heard at our next meeting of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 83 10/20/09 - FINANCE - BILL 090570, etc. 090705 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended so that this bill can be heard at Council's next session. All in favor? (Aye.)
There being no opposition, the motion is carried. This will conclude our public meeting. Thank you. (Committee on Finance concluded at 11:25 a.m.) - - - 84 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on October 20, 2009, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)