Committee Hearing, March 21, 2007

But that's not in your budget. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: The number you're looking at are less the abatements. 498,865,287. That's after we take out the abatements.

And where do the abatements go? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I'll call up Tom DeWall to explain that one. MR. DeWALL: Good afternoon, 91 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Madam President. Tom DeWall, Administrative Services Director. We factored in approximately $18.2 million in abatements and transfers. Of that amount, approximately 800 million -- I'm sorry; million is 8 miscellaneous billings, which is Police overtime, which we are being reimbursed for from private vendors. We have 3.5 million is a transfer with the DA. We have police officers working over there. Two hundred thousand is the DA administrative costs, which we transfer from the DA. We have Class 100 grant reimbursements, approximately 6.4 million, and School District transfer of 175,000 for school crossing aides working in the summertime.

I'm sorry. Can you give us the figure again for the School District? MR. DeWALL: I'm sorry. The last figure?

The 92 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 School District. MR. DeWALL: The School District is 175,000.

And that is for? MR. DeWALL: That is for the school crossing guards working in the summertime for summer school.

Commissioner, I know I always have the perpetual question. Can you bring us up to date on your yearly inquiry into the court-related overtime? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: He's the expert.

We all have the financial gurus. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: We are working on the CATS program. That's the Court Attendance Tracking System. Is that the one you're talking about? That pilot program started out -- we had originally anticipated almost a million dollars in savings a year, but 93 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 after we went through the pilot and we did an analysis, it appears that it will now be closer to $250,000 to $300,000 in savings. We ran into some issues with the vendor as far as pricing and availability. However, it seems to be back on track right now. We anticipate having 72 of these scanners installed in the different courtrooms. We have -- are currently 13 wired. Fourteen will be completely 14 installed by the end of this week. 15 Right now we anticipate a "go 16 live" time possibly as soon as the end of 17 April, but guardedly, maybe by June we 18 will have it all in and running and all 19 the bugs worked out and everything 20 working fine. So we would hopefully 21 start to see some savings from the 22 program in around June. 23

24 Again, I would ask what is the 25 court-related overtime? 94 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Oh, you mean the dollar figure?

Yes. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Oh, okay. For Fiscal Year '06, we spent 18,408,434. For Fiscal Year '07, we are estimating a total expenditure of 20,801,530. Our projection right now for Fiscal Year '08 is 21,663,592. One of the reasons that the court costs actually went up is, in the last quarter of 2006, the court system itself was up 1,000 dispositions. The court system is trying to push through more cases, and obviously the more cases that are heard, the more officers have to appear. That last quarter also included 100 jury trials. As you know, when there's a jury trial, many officers are subpoenaed at the same time. So while we are trying an effort to reduce the amount of court overtime, the courts are trying to push more cases through. So we're not exactly 95 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 at cross purposes, but the effect comes out that way.

I guess I've been saying every year and I guess people that have been here are tired of hearing me, but at one point in my life I used to list cases in the District Attorney's Office. Officers McPherson and Verna were partners, and I would check the Round House to see if Officers Verna and McPherson would be available on a certain date. This was done manually. Okay? And we would list at least ten to 15 maybe of their cases in the same courtroom on the same day. With the new technology that we have now, I don't know why that can't be done, and I think it would save an awful lot of overtime money. I really do. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: As I understand it --

Does anybody work together to see how all of this can be accomplished? 96 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: One of the problems we run into, our busiest officers, the officers who make the most arrests, generally speaking, have multiple court listings on the same day. The one thing that's --

But couldn't that be prevented? Couldn't they list them all in the same courtroom on the same day? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I believe a lot of that does happen. However, they're not always on the exact same cases. They'll have -- as you said, Officer Verna and Officer McPherson may have six cases on that day. Three of them may be together, but three of the other ones may be in separate cases. And depending on the priority of each one of the cases, they may be required to be in a different courtroom. Now, the one thing that's going to help with this Court Attendance Tracking System, the electronic scanning 97 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 that I talked about, was when the court crier calls the officer and the judge wants to know where is that officer right now, it's no longer, Well, they're on call or they're in court. They would say, As of right now, he's in Courtroom 706 and at 1 o'clock he'll be in 703 and then we will know exactly --

Again, I would ask why couldn't the six cases be tried in the same courtroom? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I can ask the court systems and get back to you, ma'am. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think what we basically do, we try to coordinate where we put officers while they're working daywork to appear in court, which is one of the things we did. But what happens sometimes is that once they appear the first listing and the case is continued, it throws the whole thing out. But I agree with you, Council 98 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 President, that as much as we can to save overtime as far as the court is concerned, we're willing to do. One of the other problems that we're trying to do right now, officers that are assigned to the 6th and the 9th District to be put on re-call. The judges want them in court. It would take them a matter of an officer who is working Center City to be approximately five minutes to get to court. But those things working with the courts, working with the District Attorneys, we're trying to work those problems out.

I just can't understand why it can't be done. I just don't understand why it can't be done with all of the modern technology that we have today. I'm not going to belabor that, because it really makes me very upset. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Thank you, 99 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Madam President. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon, sir.

One quick question, then I want to follow up on the video surveillance issues. Recently, I know there's a push in Congress -- I think it was actually from the Administration -- to limit the scope of local police jurisdictions to have access to ballistics and tracing information on shootings. Has that bill 15 passed; do you know? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. I'm not sure -- you're talking about a bill 18 in Congress? I think what is happening right now, we're fighting that. And we got mixed messages, at least I got mixed messages, that originally we were not allowed to share with other law enforcement people, but there's something in Congress right now -- I don't know the bill or what the bill is -- that they're 100 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 trying to restrict law enforcement from sharing information that's involving gun tracing.

So from you sharing information with other jurisdictions? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.

And that would limit dramatically your ability to possibly solve a crime? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It already has.

Video surveillance, first, I'm glad to hear that the pilot program appears to be working to some degree, but my understanding is that some are hard-wired where we actually have an officer at 8th and Race watching, what calls for the increase in those particular cases, but in the other instances, unless the officer has the, quote/unquote, football, the laptop computer looking at the mobile 101 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 systems, there's really nobody monitoring those all the time. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That is correct.

So it's more of a visual, because those blinking blue lights, people assume that they're being videotaped, they're being watched. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That is correct. And we have on a few cases at the request of the Detective Division sent our people out and recovered the hard drive from inside of those PODs so that they could analyze what's been previously recorded to see if we have a picture of the offender or the crime actually on tape.

That was going to be my next question. I want to know how often we recapture that. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: And we have done training for the officers in both East and Northwest Division on utilizing the PODs. So that 102 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 is now in effect also.

Having some limited knowledge about the video surveillance programs in other states, traditionally, there's basically displacement of potential crime or crime. In terms of what we've done so far, have we or is there a program in place that allows us to respond to displacement? Because the reality is, although at Broad and Erie there's a dramatic increase in quality-of-life issues and I see it riding by, but they're probably moved up to Hunting Park or some other location. Have we adopted a strategy to make sure that the Police respond or anticipate the relocation of some of those issues? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir, we have. Every week the commanding officers of every district have to submit a Comstat sheet, and they look at their crime patterns on a daily basis. Every Tuesday there is a shooting 103 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 meeting with many sectors of law enforcement where each and every shooting in the City is discussed. All intelligence is shared across the board with everybody else. And the district captains respond to all of these changes in patterns immediately. So while our focus when we look from our end, the techie end, we look at that 500-foot radius, the district captain and the divisional inspector, they're looking at the whole district and they're always looking out for displacement of crime. Because whenever, as the Commissioner said, you send in the SITE Unit or Highway Patrol, as you concentrate in the one area, there is always a possibility of displacement. So we are actively looking for that all the time.

Well, I ask that question in dealing specifically with the camera placement, because in the event -- well, when the City goes 104 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 citywide, there's going to be a whole lot of cameras everywhere. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: There will be inevitable displacement, yes.

So although it's relatively limited right now, it's not too difficult, but are you guys working towards a strategy that will allow you to adapt to the displacement on a citywide basis based on the camera placement? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. From the studies done in Europe and England and the other countries that have used them for many years now, what they found out is the displacement is never 100 percent. You may displace 20 percent or 30 percent, but you still see a significant reduction. But the simple answer to the question is, yeah, we're making sure that we're going to check for the displacement. 105 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

Yesterday we had MOIS in and we were asking a lot of questions about the surveillance program, and one of the issues that came up that there was actually some acknowledgment, that in the past we may not have been working in a concurrent way in terms of ultimate deployment, and there was this issue about who was actually going to watch the monitors and where was the facility going to be built, because we understand that 8th and Race could not accommodate the master system. Are we, the City; i.e., the Police and other pertinent parties, Public Property and MOIS, as we put out this RFP for the ultimately contractor, are we looking at things like who will ultimately view the monitors? Will it be Police, which I doubt? Will it be District Council 33 employees or will it be private? Are you in those discussions along with the departments so when we get this contract in place, we don't have to 106 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 say, Okay, we have a contract in place, now let's go out and figure out who is going to watch them. Because that's kind of the way we've been dealing with this up to date, just like we do one thing and then we realize we need to do something else and something else. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think -- and I'll let him finish the answer -- talking to the Mayor, his suggestion was that we have some local community people be involved in the monitoring of the cameras. I think that's what they do in Baltimore. I'm not sure whether they do that in Chicago, but I know Baltimore do have local people who are citizens there help monitor the cameras.

Well, that was my next question. Have you engaged in that process yet? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: We are not at that stage yet, no. No 25 discussion has been made about a 107 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 permanent facility yet. No decision has been made about who will actually do the monitoring. The RFP is going out right now to find out what the approximate cost is going to be to establish a citywide network. The ultimate goal is to be able to have the City laid out in such a way that no matter where we want to plug in a camera, we'll be able to do that and that as crime patterns change, we'll be able to move the cameras. As you know, when we first looked at this and we did the pilot program, we were stuck with where the fiber is. To get the cameras out there quickly and to be able to establish the pilot program, we had to see where the current fiber is and where is the cheapest way to get it in and get it done, and we had the space limitations down at DPR. So we got it in and we learned a lot of different things about that. We found out that the PODs are not the way to go. We found out that hard 108 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 wiring is probably overly expensive and that we'd have a much more flexible system going through whether Wireless Philadelphia or another vendor to set up another wireless system. So that's what we want to do, to be able to reach all areas of the City and to be able to move the cameras around. But the short answer is, no, no 11 decision has been made as to who is going to monitor yet. There's a significant cost factor involved, and as the Commissioner said, it may very well be a multiplicity of factors. We may have several different unions watching it. It may be outsourced or it may very well be in conjunction with community people, with a Town Watch organization. It may be a Town Watch visual. I don't know. It's not fleshed out yet.

See, that's kind of what concerns me, that we're being told that there's a strong possibility of the first cameras starting 109 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 to go up in June or July, which is just a couple of months from now, and that the things that we need to have in place to actually implement and operate the system, we're not really far along at all in terms of those discussions. And what I'm concerned about is that we repeat the pattern that we get the contractor, we say, Okay -- it's my understanding that there are some proposed sites for the initial 125 or whatever it ultimately ends up being. We start in June and now we say, Okay, now we got to negotiate with DC 33 whether or not we can privatize this activity or let's go grab the Town Watches and get them on board or to what degree the law allows a private citizen to participate in this program. And I'm concerned that we're going to wait until June and then decide to do that. Then when I was talking yesterday about this concurrent parallel strategy, I'm just not seeing it. I'm worried. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 110 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 I am part of the Steering Committee and I absolutely will bring that up at our next meeting and see what we can do to move a decision along. Let me just point out, while monitoring the cameras is a very good thing and we do get to see a lot of instances that can happen and intervene it there, for the Police Department, part of the best value for these cameras is the forensic value. What we record digitally, it's a witness that can't be intimidated. So while there is a value for being able to watch it live time, just having it recorded is where most of the value lies for me.

And I agree, but early on in the process, we indicated that we really would like this to be something that would prevent a crime. I mean, rather than not be in a situation where we have to record it after the fact, we really would hopefully have a preventive strategy. And I'm sure 111 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 that's what's going on in a lot of those areas, particularly where those blue lights are. Folks see those blue lights and -- I'm sitting up at Broad and Susquehanna and actually only had the blinking light at Broad and Susquehanna and the guys in the barber shop, they're telling the guys, Yo, man, when you go over there, don't do this, don't do that because you're on camera. You know what I mean? And it's working. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: It is.

So I just want to reiterate, as I did yesterday, that I really would like to see this parallel track so we get these things up and running as soon as possible. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilman. And we might note, 112 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 because the Commissioner was also there, that we have PHA cameras to be considered, too, and yesterday when the issue was raised, the City said that it likewise had not gotten that far for outside donated equipment as to what we'll do. Because you know in the Lucien E. Blackwell Mill Creek area, we had the Attorney General there, along with yourselves and others, to talk about a camera system there. So we ask you to keep that in mind as you deliberate on these issues. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco.

Thank you. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon.

I was listening to Councilman Clarke and I also heard you in terms of the system and what 113 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 may be good today might not be good tomorrow, there's better systems, and I would just hope that we would not act in haste and repent in leisure, that we really study this whole process and systems and get the one that works best for the Department and the neighborhood so it would be much more effective in the end what we're trying to do, and, of course, the monitoring follows that. But I agree with Councilman Clarke, you need to kind of move it along. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am.

And if you need any support, I'm sure he and the rest of the Council will give you whatever support you all need. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: All right. Thank you.

I just somewhat in not gest but seriously talked about cameras, and I know that we can't have cameras on every corner at least for 114 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 a moment, and, Commissioner Johnson, you know I've called you any number of times about certain corners in the City. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.

And my concern is not only the one corner I call you all about, but in the 50th Ward, I have a couple of spots and on Rising Sun Avenue where it's just constant activity going on. And you all respond. I mean, you go and you make arrests, but what is it that we can do to get these people off the street? What do we need? What do you need to help you? I mean, they get arrested and they come right back, and it's a constant congregation of activity outside of homeowners' doors. They can't sleep at night. It's all night long, partying and rambling and carrying on, and there's just a level of frustration that people just are tired of, and particularly one lady, I mean, they're on the cars and they're blasting the radio all night 115 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 long. And the police will come. They may take somebody away, but they ride through. They may not be able to do anything, but I can't continue to take the calls at night. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I agree with you, Councilwoman. There's a couple things. One is that we're locking up the same people sometimes over and over again. I think last year we determined there's over 2,500 people that's been arrested over times in the City. And 14 there's a criminal justice system. I'm 15 not criticizing any part of the system, 16 but at the same time, some people need to 17 be in jail. 18 When you take them and you 19 arrest them and then the officer sees 20 them the very next day, we will make that 21 arrest again. But what I've constantly 22 been seeing is that we need a lot of 23 community involvement. We need a lot of 24 the wholistic type approach. Everyone 25 has to get involved. What we found is 116 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 that in areas where there were open-air drug corners and we made the arrests and pulled away, just to see what was going to happen, some corners went back and established themselves all over again. Other corners went back and the community said, We're not going to put up with it no more. We're not going to tolerate it no more. Because drug dealers would go to where there's least aggravation, least problems, and most drug dealers really, unfortunately, live in the area that they sell drugs. They don't go to another neighborhood and try to sell drugs to anybody else, because they'll get themselves killed. But at the same time, it says we have -- we've eliminated a lot of drug corners, but as long as you have a buyer, you're going to have a seller, unfortunately. And like last year, we confiscated $140 million worth of drugs. But if you give me the location and you should keep calling me -- I know we made 117 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 numerous amount of arrests in the area that you've mentioned. And I talked to you about it the other day. And there's times that we put a police officer actually on that corner, which will eliminate it, but once that officer leaves, they'll come right back there. So there has to be a combination of a whole lot of things that we get involved in, but we're constantly -- and just keep calling. We'll go out there. We'll make the arrest. We'll try to go after the suppliers more, not just the person still on the corner, because that supply is coming from somewhere. If we lock up the supplier, then we take away a lot of corners, but if you just lock up the kids that's selling drugs on that corner, they're going to be replaced by someone else. But we're going to do as much as we possibly can. I don't want to have another -- it reminds me of the corner 118 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 you're mentioning -- I'm not mentioning that corner -- of 8th and Butler. We shut 8th and Butler down and we can shut this corner down.

Yeah. I remember 8th and Butler. It was in my district at one point. That's when all of this started with these drugs. Well, I appreciate it. It's just a level of frustration people are feeling in the community in, you know, Kensington trying to confront drug dealers and people feel threatened, and you don't want them to get hurt if they confront the drug dealer. So it's something I think we have to do. That's why I asked you about the cameras on some of these corners. Maybe they will go away. Particularly when you have some corners where you have buyers that don't live in that community but are coming from Center City buying, maybe you should arrest some of the buyers. It sends the message that they will be arrested. They 119 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 won't come back to the corner. Because, like you said, as long as there's a buyer, there will be a seller. Some of these buyers don't necessarily live in the neighborhood. They're coming from downtown Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Most of the buyers don't live -- matter of fact, I think a couple years ago last year when we did an evaluation, 30 percent of the people not only didn't live in the neighborhood, they didn't even live in the City.

Right. Okay. You talked about the police officers being trained to deal with mental health issues, individuals with mental health problems. Is that just a certain task force that's trained to deal with mental health issues or are all the police officers given some training to handling not just individuals who may have mental health problems who are confronting the police officers but 120 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 who may be causing problems in the neighborhood? If the average police -- not the average. If the police officer who may not be part of this task force has to deal with the person in the community, not necessarily a violent person, are they trained to handle individuals with mental health issues, and what do they do to resolve the issue if there is a call about someone who has mental health problems? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we have a combination of things. We just trained who went through a 40-hour 16 course. I think we trained over 100 17 police officers, and they're all 18 volunteers that wanted to get into this 19 training. The police officers in every 20 district, in every patrol, in every facet 21 are also trained to deal with the mental 22 illness, but we also have in the City of 23 Philadelphia that we have a partnership 24 with mental health people, that if a police officer arrives there, then they 121 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 contact the mental health people, who are the experts in handling a lot of these situations. Our concern is not to go out there and injure anybody, but at the same time, we come in contact with certain people and at times -- even the mental health people tell me if they have a weapon, a gun or a knife or something else, then it normally disregards -- not so much disregards everything. It just -- in other words, if you come there and the guy is mentally ill but he has a gun, that weapon changes things. That knife changes things. Because that person comes to the mental illness person who is out there to talk to him, he's just going to get behind a police officer. And, you know, each situation is totally completely different, but we stress the point to all officers starting from the Academy to deal with mental health people. A lot of these people, 122 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 they're not sick because they want to be sick, they're sick because something has happened to them, and we don't want to injure them. We don't want to harm them. We want to get them help. There's people who are mentally ill that have barricaded themselves that after being out there eight or nine hours trying to talk to them, we don't -- when we get them out of the house, we don't take them to the police station. We take them to a mental health facility.

We had a gentleman living in his car, and if the police were called, what would be their strategy? He's not violent, he doesn't have a weapon, but he's in his car living on the street in the neighborhood. What procedure would the Police Department use? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We would contact the mental health people. We will arrive there with the mental health people. There's teams now, especially in 123 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Center City, but the teams go all over the entire City. We find a person that's in the car who is mentally ill, then we call people from -- the mental health people to come out there and try to convince this person to get help or take them to a facility where they can do something with them. We wouldn't go out there to arrest him.

Right. It was mentioned in the briefing the other day that an independent study might not be a bad idea to assess crime causation and prevention. What statistics or categories would such a study look at? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't know who mentioned that study, but it's kind of -- it's not amazing, but it seems like as we've been going on -- because the Inquirer in the last few days has talked about a whole lot of different things. Some of the things I said five years ago that I was criticized for, that we can't arrest if we have a problem, the 124 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 criminologists are now saying the exact word for word in the paper, and that there's so many social issues that are involved in it. Last year, we locked up 74,000 people in the City of Philadelphia. Just to lock a person up, it's not solving it. It has to be other things that are involved. It has to be the clergy. It has to be the community. It has to be the politicians. It has to be everyone, the businesspeople, to get involved in this. So I think until we solve some of the problems that are leading people to commit these crimes -- for example, 85 percent of those who are being killed in the City of Philadelphia have criminal records. Close to 84 percent of those who are killing have criminal records. But we have to deal with some people and we have to deal with elements that we never dealt with before. We have to deal with people in recovery. We have to deal 125 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 with people who are ex-offenders. Traditional policing is not working. Traditional policing, only locking the people up, that is not the only answer. We have a strong responsibility to go out there and do everything we can, and we will, but the fact that once the police leave, what happens -- once the community combined and worked together, then there's a long-term solution. It's a very short solution with an officer standing on that corner, because that officer is not going to always be there, but you have a community that's always there that helps and that assists other people, then that thing will -- they normally don't go back there. So, again, we're not social workers, but I'm willing to sit at a table with social workers. I am very, very open-minded and will do anything that I could possibly do to make sure that -- it's not about statistics, because our statistics are high. It's 126 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 about quality of life.

Well, I certainly have listened to you on numerous occasions about the causes of crime and some of the community and social problems that contribute to criminal activity, and I guess because you didn't have the statistical report to substantiate what you were saying, you could feel that maybe they weren't listening to you. So maybe they're listening now, because somebody is coming up with some documentation on this stuff, but you gave the conclusion based on your experience. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Those of us who were in the community have a sense of that, too. I was reading the other day about Mayor Menino in Boston and how he had cut down on crime sometime ago by pulling together just what you said, the 127 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 faith-based community, the social workers and all the people who could provide some support, but as the crime went down and people became -- the crime went up. So have you thought about looking at that model from Boston? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I actually went up to Boston. I went to Boston, along with the District Attorney and other people, maybe about four, five years ago. It's called the Boston Miracle. We went up there, evaluated a lot of things. This program started really by clergy, who started walking streets and they started combining with people socially. They got street walkers. They got a little bit of everything. Our AVRP program is something similar to that, we have street walkers there. Our program is -- a lot of it is duplicated what was happening in Boston. But I was just up in Boston maybe about eight or nine months ago and 128 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 you're right, their crime is starting to go up. They're starting to go back to the basics, go back to the clergy, go back to the community, go back to other people there, because that made the difference. They went almost the entire year with only 34 homicides at one time. In the last few years, they've been over a hundred. I mean, their crime rate has went up. I belong to an organization called the Major City Chief Organization and we meet four times a year, and what happens is that in order to be a major city chief, you have to have a population of 500,000, a department over a thousand. And we sit and we go around the table and we talk about the problems that we're having in our individual cities. And it's nationwide. We're all having basically the same problem. In Philadelphia with the crime rate going up -- overall crime today is down overall. Violent crime is down. 129 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Our homicides are up. And the homicides, there's a lot of factors that are involved in that. It's not a gang problem. It's not a drug problem. They're killing each other over arguments. A large percentage --

I disagree with you on that. I think you ought to count drugs as one of the major problems. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think what we do is, we evaluate every single homicide and what we look at, if they're arguing over drugs, then fine, it's a drug-related homicide. If they're arguing over a girl or arguing over a car, it's not considered to be drug related. I mean, we have a major drug problem, and I understand -- it took us 25, 30 years to get into the condition, and we're not just -- we're paying the price of what we didn't do for a long period of time, that we were only related to numbers. So, again, it's not about numbers. It's about quality of life. 130 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 So, I mean, the drugs are a problem, but with Operation Safe Streets, what we did to eliminate open-air drug corners where people line up like car washes to sell their drugs, we eliminated a lot of them, but they're very, very specific. It's hard to fight violence. It takes you four or five seconds to commit a homicide. It's hard to deploy for a four- or five-second event. We can plan where there's people out there selling drugs from our intelligence, from our analysis, from everything like that, where to put police officers at. But the violence right now, especially with the gun violence, which is still like -- 84 percent of our homicides are by handguns, and for this year it's a little different from other years. Close to 50 percent of our homicides are inside.

You all have a lot of things to do, but is there any effort to go into the elementary 131 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 schools to talk to young people about violence and their behavior and trying to find alternative ways to conflict resolution? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I just left a school at o'clock this morning. 8 We were at Pepper Middle School. And 9 what we decided to do -- and it's about 30 of us, Afro-American, commanders and above. For the last four or five months, we've been going to at least one or two schools a week and going to the different churches, talking about violence. What we do, we're talking to the auditorium with the whole school and then we break up into classrooms, because I think we have an obligation to go into the schools. We have an obligation to go into the churches and the mosque. But we've been going to two or three different schools. I guess at this point in the last two or three months, we've been to about ten different schools, and we will continue to go to these schools 132 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 and talk to the kids about their futures, about choices and about education, about crime and about drugs. So that's a program that we've already put in place. The reason that most of the Afro-Americans is going there -- and we're not saying that the Caucasians from the Department doesn't want to go there, but the majority of our kids are being killed, 85 percent, is Afro-Americans and Latinos. We have an obligation to go back. We have an obligation to go into the schools. And I think the fact that we're going to a lot of these schools, in some of these schools, in the entire school there is no male Afro-American teacher. We have to go as role models and let these kids know that we all came from the same neighborhoods that they came from. I myself grew up in North Philadelphia, and if I come from the streets of North Philadelphia and be Police Commissioner, so can they, but it's about making the right choices. 133 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 So we've already got that program in place. Matter of fact, our Chief of Staff is mentoring certain girls, certain women, and they're starting to formulate a program where they will pick 15, females and mentor 8 them for the entire year, teaching about 9 life, teaching about experience. 10 So we in the Department have a 11 major obligation. And, again, not to be 12 racial, but there's approximately 2,400 13 Afro-Americans and Latinos in the City. 14 We have to go back to the neighborhoods 15 that we grew up in. We have to become 16 role models and tutors, and we will.

Thank you. I think I just have one more question and then I think I'll be finished. You talked on of your testimony about the Curfew Center expansion. You know I'm interested in my area. Do you know where the centers are going to be? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 134 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Yes, ma'am. Well, this week there is two more opening up, one in East and one in Southwest. In April, there will be three more added, one in Central, one in the Northeast and one in Northwest. And in July and August, six more are to be determined. So there are more coming 9 up. 10

You don't 11 know where? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I got that information from Mr. -- two more -- Alexander. So he would know the exact locations. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the place that we were meeting at -- and I'm not sure where it's going to be at, but we were meeting at Zion Church. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be there, but they're going to try to put it that's going to entail the 13th and the 14th Police District -- I mean, 14th and the 35th Police District.

That's 135 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 actually going to be at the Triumph Baptist Church, and that was partnering with Nicetown CDC. And Triumph is on -- I think they're going to use a building near Hunting Park and Germantown Avenue. But that was one of my questions, not to you. But earlier when they say Northwest, you know that that means pretty much below Wayne Junction, when there's another whole real Northwest above Wayne Junction, like Germantown, Mount Airy, West Oak Lane. So we're going to end up needing to have one up in that area. But the 14th and 35th District.

It's like a little bit of the Northwest and the 14th and 35th. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

That's the area we need to cover. Thank you. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank 136 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 you.

Commissioner, can I ask where it will be in Southwest? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yeah. I believe -- I may be off on the street, but it's at 61st and Woodland or 65th and Woodland. There's a center there. Matter of fact, that's opening up this Thursday. I think it's opening up Thursday.

A week from tomorrow or tomorrow? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Tomorrow.

Oh, tomorrow. COMMISSION JOHNSON: Thursday.

And where will this be? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe it's 64th and Woodland.

Thank you. 137 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Councilwoman Tasco, are you finished with your questioning?

Yes.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, thanks for being here this afternoon. I have a group of questions, so if I don't get them on the first go-around, we'll come back at you. I would have liked to have seen the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania pay the City of Philadelphia, specifically the Police Department, for the years of great service that the Philadelphia Police provided to patrolling the interstate highways, but since that's not the case, what I'd like you to do is please give the Council a report on how that is working. I understand mid-January the Pennsylvania State Police have started to patrol from City limits to Montgomery and 138 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 will plan to take over additional miles of the road and also I-95. So I'd like to know how in fact that's working and what dollars have -- I heard the Budget Director mention it, but I'd like to hear it from a representative of the Police Department. What dollars as their commitment and close to $6 million a year that you spend in patrolling those roadways, what kind of monies have we gotten back so far? Will we get the whole 5.6 or 6 million this fiscal year? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't know of any money we've gotten back.

Well, their commitment was to take over the patrol of the roadways. So if they're not taking it over, I can't imagine the Police Department allowing them not to compensate us for the services that you're providing since they agreed to take over and agreed that that's their responsibility. They owe us some money 139 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 here. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Councilman, this was a decision not made by the Pennsylvania State Police or the Philadelphia Police Department. It was a decision made by the Governor's office and basically the Mayor's office. And I don't know all the details about the money part. I know about the operational part. I've never sat in about the money. And as far as the operational part is concerned, we've been meeting with the State Police on a continuous basis. They have taken over approximately one mile of the Expressway so far. But then there's going to be approximately six phases. In the very near future, they're going to have State Police come down and they're going to work along with partners with the Philadelphia Police Department until they get used to the Expressway as to what's going on out there. My understanding, they will not take full operation of the 140 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 expressways until the end of 2008. And in my entire career, we've worked very, very closely with the State Police and I have a lot of respect for Colonel Miller. There's going to be times up on the Expressway that we're still going to have to go up there, because if there's a major accident up there, we're not going to let the citizens of Philadelphia just be up there with one car or maybe two cars. So we will assist them. But as far as the money is going to come in, I don't think it's going to come into the Police Department. I think it's going to come into the City to the Mayor's office or to the Finance people. But I have not been privileged to any sort of financial conditions about what the State Police, how they're going to pay. I've only been involved in the operations of it.

Fair enough, Commissioner. Then I'll ask the Budget 141 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Director to provide to the Chair. Because when there's an agreement to take over the patrol of the roadway and they're not taking it over and we're still expending dollars and personnel that could be used other places, probably the Traffic Division, which we'll talk more about later for traffic control in Center City, since you're not privy to the dollars or your Deputy is not privy to the reimbursement to the City of Philadelphia -- I was hoping it would go to the Police Department, but since it's not, I'll have to fight for you at a later date. But right now, could you report on what exactly is occurring out there? Commissioner, it's not unusual that when the State Police patrols the interstate highways that municipal police departments support the State Police. So I don't think that's uncommon in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for a local jurisdiction to block an onramp or close 142 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 down a roadway. So I don't think that is a major issue. Again, I repeat, I wish they would have just sent us the check for the million and left us alone, but 6 they didn't do that. So how is it going so far? Can you give us a report on -- your patrol does not actively respond to radio calls now? I mean, if they're taking it over, if there's an auto accident eastbound just east of City Avenue, who gets the job? Does the State Police get it or do we? If we are getting it, we should not -- I don't want to use the word "refuse" it, but refer it back to them. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I don't want to get into the battle where there's an accident whether the State Police should handle it or the Philadelphia Police Department should handle it. If there's an accident, it's still a citizen of Philadelphia, and we're going to respond. We're not going to wait for the State Police to come 143 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 there and to handle the accident. So at this point, if there's an accident between the one-mile radius that they're covering, if the State Police arrive there first and handle it, they will handle it. If the State Police do not arrive there, then we will handle it.

Well, that's undermining the transition. If you're going to do the work for them and still spend the money and use the personnel, I think that what I need to hear is that someone is managing the transition from our police to the Pennsylvania State Police, because it's not going to work if we're just going to keep doing the work. If there's a disabled automobile -- let's use that as an example, not an auto accident. If there's a disabled auto just in that pilot area, why would we respond? It's their responsibility. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Because it's a citizen of Philadelphia. 144 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

Well, Commissioner, there's a lot of things that we -- for 25, 30 years we've been talking about this issue, and if we're going to get it right, we need to do it right. So I'll talk to you outside the Council Chamber on that, and we'll also ask the Budget Director to find out where the money is associated with this agreement. The other issue is, since the Expressway Unit is part of the Traffic Division, I've been getting calls from some merchants, some businesspeople in Center City, especially during the Flower Show where Center City was gridlocked and there was very little Police presence, and I witnessed it myself. I went into the area that was problematic. Could you describe what the budget is for traffic control, the Traffic Division, and tell me, do you believe that we have sufficient officers? We have the signs up all over Center City 145 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 "don't block the box," and trying to get through the intersection, as an example, right here at 15th and JFK is a nightmare for people, and people are starting to tell me that they're hesitating to even want to come into Center City because it is so difficult to traverse through Center City. So I would like you to give us a report or ask the appropriate person within the Police Department to tell us about traffic control in Center City Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Any time you have a large convention, you're going to have gridlock, any time it happens, whether it's the Flower Show or there's an auto show. And we received no 20 complaints about it at all, and I think that we have enough traffic personnel down there and I think they do a good job. The majority of our people in the Department since we're short in the 146 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 districts are in local districts. I think the numbers of traffic people we have down there and the job that they do -- and as far as I know, we've never received a call from anybody about the conditions there. They may be inconvenienced, but I'm telling you right now, whether it's the Eagles game, the Phillies games, when you have a large amount of people converging on one area, you're going to have gridlock.

Commissioner, I'm only using the Flower Show as an example. I'm talking day to day. Not everybody has -- well, I won't go there. On a normal day in Center City when you travel through Center City, it is very, very difficult, and the Police presence -- and I don't know how big a unit the Traffic Division of the Philadelphia Police Department even is any longer, but I can tell you this, that the Police presence, especially when 147 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 there is traffic congestion and it's pointed out to the Police Department, it is very, very difficult. So Flower Show, Eagles game, Wachovia Center, I understand that. I'm talking about the normal day. Commissioner, I believe you travel through Center City. You drive yourself on many occasions. You tell me if you're satisfied with the flow of traffic in Center City. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I am.

You are? I thought you'd say that. I'll come back the next time around.

Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.

Thank you, Madam President. First of all, Commissioner, I just want to make a comment from some of 148 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 the testimony you've given this afternoon. One is that I think the most effective way of fighting crime throughout the City is prevention, and you mention it, and I think it's not fair to throw all of this on the Police Department. I think it's all of our -- we have responsibility, all of us, and that is, the school system, I think the City, the state, the churches, the families and the parents. We all have a stake in this. And I think that's one of the things that I think we have to address, prevention. If we can get to the seven, eight, nine, ten-year-olds and put them in the right programs and the right directions, we won't have to be facing them when they're 16, 17, 18 years old, killing each other and doing God knows what throughout the City. And that's one of the things that you touched upon, and I completely agree with you on that. Another thing that I did want 149 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 to mention is that every member of Council goes out to their districts and throughout the City in community meetings. One of the first things we always get hit with is quality-of-life issues. That's the big thing. In other words, what are we doing. Because if we touch upon quality-of-life issues, it has a direct impact on the amount of violent crime in the City. I think it would. I just want to know if you're still putting the same effort into quality-of-life issues as you are with these violent crime. Because I'll tell you -- and I know what you're doing out in Southwest Philadelphia and I agree with you, that certainly you should do whatever you can to stem the rising violent crime rate out there, but I don't want to see other areas suffer from it. In other words, if we can get to the quality-of-life issues first -- there's a lot of sections in the City that don't have the same amount of violent crime as you do in Southwest 150 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Philadelphia and maybe other areas, but I want to make sure that the districts in the other areas aren't going to be affected by it. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I agree with you, Councilman, and I think quality-of-life crimes are very important, and we stress that to our police officers to do those quality-of-life arrests. The facts are, if you stop the small crime, you're going to prevent the big crimes, and that is the philosophy of our department. So, again, with the operation that we have out in the 12th District, we did not take one single police officer from any other district in the City to go to Southwest Philadelphia. The only additional people that we have go to Southwest was the SITE Unit, and they are mobile. They go from district to district every single day. What we have now, that they're assigned to the 12th District until 151 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 further notice. So they might be out there a week, they might be out there a month, they might be out there two or three months. We put the tourniquet where we've been bleeding at. We were bleeding in South Philadelphia and to make sure that our officers go out there. But as far as taking them from other parts of the City, that was not the case. Every division in this entire City has the district officers, but they also have a complement of highway patrolmen and Narcotics Strike Force, every City in the district. And I'm just trying to stress that point. We did not take any officers from any area and left uncovered to go to Southwest Philadelphia.

Would that include the SWAT team and whatnot you were putting out there? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't believe we have the SWAT team out there. If we do, they were out there for a short 152 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 period of time. And sometimes we may -- the SWAT team, as far as I know, the SWAT team goes from location to location. I have the Deputy Commissioner of Operations here. I'm not sure we have the SWAT team out there on a permanent basis or not.

That's all right. That's not that important. I want to touch upon another thing, though, the quality of life for the policemen and women in the Department. I would like to know what you've been doing about improving the facilities that the policemen and women have to go through. I know I visited one district many years ago and when they had a rainstorm, they would have to put everything above their lockers or else if it rained that day or that night, they would have been flooded out. They were constantly flooding. And we've seen before through other testimony and other meetings we had, some of these stations 153 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 are really, really deplorable. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. You're absolutely correct. We are addressing those issues with the Capital Programs Office. I'm working with Jim Lewis in the Department of Public Property. We send some of our maintenance staff out to do steam cleaning in areas. The problem has been, as you know, lack of capital funding. We went to PICA the other day and we gave our presentation. Hopefully PICA will respond in a positive way. We have our list of needs. We know what they are. We know where they are. We've got them in our priority order. It's a matter of getting the money.

Councilman Kelly, if I might, additionally --

Yes, Ms. Reed.

-- to answer this question -- Dianne Reed, Budget Director -- with the agreement with 154 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Council on use of the '05 capital funding, 1.75 of '05 funding was immediately available for fire stations for the emissions project, and for Police, 1.2 to 2.3 will be spent from that source. And the projects that will be coming out of that capital funding will not duplicate what has been requested from PICA.

Okay. I'd just like to have this for my own information. Has there been an increase or decrease in the amount of crime in the 15th and the 2nd Districts, offhand? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think the 15th, crime -- the 15th is really unique. Most of the crime is saturated into one area, the lower part of the 15th District. And we put extra police officers from the Academy there. We put extra police officers from the Strike Force and Highway there.

How is that 155 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 rated, A or B? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It's an A district.

That's an A district? And the second is a B district? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, it's a B district, but what we're trying to do is evaluate all of them. The 2nd District is a very busy district.

What would be the difference in an A and B district? Can you tell me that? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, originally --

Amount of officers and whatnot? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, no. Originally it was the amount of crime that was in those particular places. And what we did, at least Commissioner Timoney did at that point, those real busy districts, he put captains up there and gave them an eight 156 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 percent raise or four percent raise more so than the smaller districts. But what I'm finding, we have some B districts who are more active than A districts. So, again, with the neighborhood changing in the 2nd District, there's more crime in the 2nd District than there was three or four years ago. So it's not based on the amount of loss. It's based on the amount of crime that was happening in those particular districts.

And the amount of crime, more or less quality of life? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct. Quality-of-life issues are very important to me and that's why I keep stressing that. The facts are that I was up in Roxborough, Councilwoman Campbell, and they didn't talk about crime, but what they're talking about, people coming out of those bars disturbing them, people parking on their lawns and on their 157 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 streets. So it is a quality-of-life issue. Center City, Rittenhouse Square. The Board meets with them than almost with anybody. So whatever is the fact in your quality of life is important to the Police Department. It's not always crime. It's about things that are just -- people, like we mentioned before, that they can't sleep or they're urinating on their sidewalks or doing other things like that. That affects that individual person. That affects that neighborhood. So that is just as important to the Police Department as the violent crime is. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Councilman, if I could.

Sure. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: And I know that people in the neighborhood don't care about our stats, they care about the noise on the corner, but just as an example that we do take it 158 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 seriously, in 2006, we made 14,392 arrests for quality-of-life issues, which was a 31 percent increase over 2005.

Okay. Thank you. Another question I have has to do with the officers that are affected by the Heart and Lung Act. I'd like to know how many are out on disability and could you give me the length of time that an average officer is out. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: All right. To address that, we get a weekly report. The report in front of me is for the week of January 1st of this year. Officers who were no duty at all, 262. Limited-duty personnel, they were officers who were injured and it was duty related, there was 105. Restricted-duty personnel, officers who are injured other than work related, 111. So that's a total of 478 officers who would not be working a full day. The officers who are limited or 159 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 restricted, they would be going to therapy or receiving treatments during the course of their working days. So they may be limited to only being able to work two to four or five hours in any work period.

So that's 478 officers that you're missing on any particular day? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That is correct, sir. And the length of time that they're out, it varies depending on the nature of the injury.

So the average? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I don't have the average. I can contact the safety office and try and get that for you. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe it was mentioned to me approximately two years ago or a year and a half ago we had approximately 25 people 160 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 on limited duty -- no duty. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: July of '03 it was only about 30 people that were no duty, and now it's 262.

Thank you. That's all the questions I have now. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you.

Are the 262 included -- I'm sure they are -- in the numbers that you say that we have in the police force? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am.

So we get 100 new police officers and we have 272 out. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We got 478 out. We have 207 that has no duty at all.

I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We have a total of 478 officers who are not 161 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 working a full eight hours. Some of them are working two or three hours. Say, for example, they'll come in, they might work three or four hours and then they go to therapy or they go someplace else. But there's approximately 262 who have absolutely no duty.

So we're back to like 6,200 uniformed officers. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: If you're going to minus them, you're exactly right. And we've been meeting with the medical people, the FOP and a lot of other people. The City doesn't have the authority just to put them -- in other words, one time before you would go to -- if you're injured, you'd go to 19th and Fairmount, a health place. The doctor would say, Look, you're fit for duty, go back to work. Well, the officer now says, Look, you may say I'm fit for duty, but I don't feel great, I want a second opinion, and there's nothing we 162 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 can do about that.

And they could be off indefinitely? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Councilman Kelly, are you finished?

I just have a follow-up question on that, Madam President. You mention in 2003 there were 30 officers. Could you give me any indication of why it's now 262 or actually 478? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: We are now under the provisions of the Heart and Lung Act.

And could you give us some idea what that does? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Basically, as the Commissioner just said, with the Heart and Lung Act, the officer has the option of treating outside of the City network. They can say they don't 163 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 agree with the doctor's opinion that they are ready to return to work, they want to go see a physician who is in the FOP network. And then they would get their appointment with that doctor, and then that doctor would keep them out for whatever period of time he thought was necessary. Then the employee still has the option, even when that doctor puts them back to work, to say, I still don't feel like I am able to go back to work, I want to have a hearing in front of the heart and lung panel. And the heart and lung panel consists of two arbitrators, who are already picked out, and then one representative from the City, one representative from the FOP. They would hear the case and make their final determination.

So the City doctor could say one thing and their own doctor could say another thing and then it goes before the panel and they make a decision on between which way they want? 164 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Well, actually, both doctors could put the officer back to work and then the officer still has the right to refuse and say, No, I don't want to go back to work, I want a hearing.

Has anything been done to make up for the shortage of 478 policemen? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The only thing that's basically been done is, we've had meetings and we've hired 200 additional police, thanks to Council and the Governor's office. Hypothetically, some of these people can come back. We can get 50 to come back tomorrow. We can get 100 to come back tomorrow. So far we've been pretty consistent that the number -- matter of fact, I think at one time we had 600 people at one time that wasn't working full time. But we have no control of that.

Okay. Thank 165 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 you. Thank you, Madam President.

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Thank you, Madam President. I guess it's afternoon, isn't it? Good afternoon, Commissioner. For truancy, I know truancy officers are very busy. Who trains them, our truancy officers? Is it the school, the City or the police force? Do you, by chance, know? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I believe the school. We're not involved in that.

Okay. And also with regard to our crime, especially at West Philadelphia High School, I heard you say earlier that we're having more shootings inside. I guess that refers to schools as well? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. 25 We're not talking about a homicide 166 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 inside. I'm talking about parts -- I know we have had no shootings in any school in the City of Philadelphia this year or last year, matter of fact. I'm talking about a crime that happens in a house or in a building off the street. So not so much the school.

And is it your opinion that we would probably do better in schools if we didn't advertise so much and have so many disparate groups inside, or do you suspect it just doesn't matter at all? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure. I'm not sure whether anybody else has that opinion. We work with the School District. We have a police officer assigned to -- which most people don't know. We have a police officer assigned to -- every public high school in the City there's a police officer assigned to it on a full-time basis. They're assigned to go inside. They're assigned outside the building. But if 167 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 called inside, they have the authority to go inside. If the principal or if some vice-principal wants them to come inside, they will go inside to solve the problem that this happened right then, but then they will have to come back and go on the outside. And most of the elementary schools -- not elementary, but junior high schools and middle schools we have police officers that are assigned to. But almost every middle school and high school and some elementary schools, at arrival and dismissal, there's police officers that are outside that are assigned to that area.

And that's irrespective of whatever the school has itself? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.

Okay. Thank you, Madam President.

168 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 You're welcome. I'd like to ask a question. In the past, we had approximately 30 police officers a month leave the Department. Is that still holding true? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Close to it. It's between 310 and 350 a year. What happens is, there are ebb and flows. Some months we may only have three or four leave and another month we may have 32 leave.

Because I think historically it was about 30. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am.

You indicated about the 776 officers that are out of duty. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No; 478.

I'm sorry; 478. I'm not good at numbers. On an average day, how many of them are out sick or on vacation? 169 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Well, this number here is just the people that are injured. Sick and vacation, you may get another two or three per squad per district.

Which would amount to? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: 150 maybe. For 2006, the average uniform sick leave was nine days. So each officer used an average of nine sick days.

And vacation? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Vacation would be --

Your figures keep depressing me. So actually how many officers do we have available per day? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That would depend on the tour of duty. I mean, naturally the 4:00 to 12:00 shift and going into the early morning hours of 170 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 last out would be heavier because our special units work during those times. Daywork, the coverage gets pretty light because even of the officers that are working, a lot of them are in court.

Councilwoman Campbell.

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, first of all, good afternoon. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon.

About a year ago January I convened a meeting that resulted in us getting additional policemen from the state, being funded by the state for additional policemen. At the time, we had made the request so that these police officers would be used for foot patrolmen, and I want to know what's the possibility with the spring coming up of these foot patrolmen being assigned into West Philadelphia, Southwest and 171 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Northwest -- not Northwest; North and Southwest? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, one of the things is the fact that some of these districts in roll call sometimes have 10, people and sometimes less. 8 And at this point, we feel as though by 9 putting an officer in a car gives them 10 the ability to become very, very flexible 11 and to go from location to location. 12 Once you put them on the beat, they're 13 restricted to a block or two blocks or 14 three or four blocks at the time. 15 I would love to have enough police officers to put on foot beats in certain locations, but what happens a lot of times, too, in most districts, the foot beat was in a business area. It wasn't so much in a residential area. Very few times we put them in a residential area. It would be a -- matter of fact, the whole philosophy of policing basically changed with Operation Safe Streets, because when we put those 172 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 officers on the corners and we put 600 officers in one day on 300 corners, the mindset of the Police changed, the mindset of the community changed. We thought we would be rejected or resented to come into the districts. They were overly welcomed, and we understood that. And as I said, I would love to have enough police officers to put on foot patrol in residential areas and in other areas, but sometimes we might not have enough cars to even -- police officers to man the cars that we have. So it's important -- it's something that we've been looking into with the additional officers that's coming in. Those things, again, are very, very important to us and we will evaluate it. But a foot officer is restricted into the area that he's walking.

But, Commissioner, this was something that the Philadelphia Police Department nor the 173 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Administration, they did not seek it and they did not expect it, and when I went to the House and the Senate to get the money for these additional officers, it was specified to them that we wanted the money for foot patrolmen. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I understand that, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if we have an officer -- say, for example, just use an example, that we have ten cars and we have 12 people. Then maybe we'll put two on foot. But, say, all the sudden -- when we get that money, if we get money from the state and it only restricts that officer to a foot beat, I think it would be a disadvantage to the Department. We should be able to use that officer anywhere we want to use them.

Well, I don't exactly agree with you, Commissioner, because this was something that the Administration did not seek nor did the Police Department. 174 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Representative Oliver and myself got together with Senator Anthony Williams, and if you remember, we discussed that when there was foot patrolmen on the street, there were less problems in the neighborhoods. And when we sought this money, it was particularly for foot patrolmen. And I feel that if they could not use the money for the patrolmen, for what we requested, then they shouldn't have accepted it. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I don't know that we accepted money for foot beats. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: It is not my understanding --

You haven't received any money from the state for additional officers? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: If we're talking about the Police on Patrol Grant, yes, we have hired those officers, but I am not aware of any requirement for foot beats with that 175 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 grant.

Okay. Well, I'll check it further, because I need to know. I mean, if you remember, Commissioner, you were there. We did discuss the legislation with you and we did discuss what we particularly wanted it for, and when we went to the Governor about it, it was for foot patrolmen.

Point of information.

Yes. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

For the record, I want to point out Mr. McPherson pointed out that, Commissioner and the Budget Director, that we did receive $7.5 million for the state patrols this year, a one-time grant. So we received 7.5 until the State Police phase-in is complete. So for the record, we received seven and a half million dollars from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and apparently it's in the budget. 176 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

Councilman, Dianne Reed, Budget Director. That was for an 18-month period ending in December of '06. We had zeroed out the obligation for this function starting in January of '07. The Mayor wanted that money restored for the remainder of '07 and '08 --

But we did --

-- at the City's expense for the reasons that the Commissioner has stated, which is our overriding interest in public safety while the highway patrol phases in on a partial basis.

The point is, we received seven and a half million dollars that expired when?

December '06.

So the annual cost of patrolling the roadway is 5.6. So we received 7.5. So what do we do with the change? 177 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

We'll keep it.

Well, you act like it's Monopoly money. It's real money that they gave us.

We invoiced them specifically for a period of time in an agreement that was worked on in advance. There are no issues with the funding.

5.6 annually. They gave us 7.5.

For an 18-month period.

Okay. So you say it expired when? December of '06?

Yes.

And we are now footing the bill for the patrol of the roadway, including the part that the state has taken over.

Yes, but I think they've only deployed a minimal number of officers at this time. But I think that one of the deputies is involved in this. 178 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

I just want to make sure that we understand that they have sent us some money, because in earlier testimony it sounded like we haven't received any money. We have, even though it has expired and now we're starting to pay again, which we'll deal with because I'm going to have -- I'm going to ask for a re-call of the Police Department at a later date to talk about, and the Finance Department, exactly what the arrangement is with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Since the Police Commissioner doesn't know, no one at the panel seems to know about the financial arrangements or seems to care, I care and I'm going to find out exactly where the money is. Thank you, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: My comment is that the Police Department was not involved in the financial situation. We were involved in the operation. And I have nothing to do -- it was between the 179 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Governor and the Mayor. I wasn't privileged to any of those meetings. Not the fact that we care or we don't care; we were never privileged to the financial part of this.

Well, if I were the Police Commissioner, I'd want to know if I had X number of officers on patrol that I could be using to fight this epidemic of crime that we're experiencing in this city. I would care and I'd want to know why we're not getting the money that we're supposed to get, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And, again, I --

And I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I would care, and your comments earlier suggested that you didn't care or anybody at that table cared. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: It isn't the idea that we care, and I don't want to be disrespectful to you, Councilman. 180 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 And I told you, I wasn't part of this. I didn't have a vote in this. Neither did the State Police. It was between the Governor and the Mayor.

If I were the Commissioner and they were my officers out there -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: But you're not the Commissioner.

I say if I were. But I have some input on the budget and money that you waste in the Philadelphia Police Department, and I'm pointing right to this one. I would care if I had those officers out there and you were paying the tab for them. Thank you, Madam Chair.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner 181 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 and staff. I just have a couple short questions here. What will Operation Safer Streets look like, I'll just say, this summer, but with the warm weather approaching? Is there anything different or new or the same that will be happening in neighborhoods? Will police be on the corners or will it look like Operation Safe Streets? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, it will not. We haven't had police officers assigned to the corners, but we have Operation Safer Streets for almost three years now. But we have police officers in every single district that will be out there patrolling and doing the things that they can. For a couple of reasons. One, the manpower. Second reason, the financial things. And what we're finding is that Operation Safe Streets was very, very specific. It was well-planned, from intelligence, from analysis, that we knew exactly where those drug corners were at. 182 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 It was for eliminating open-air drug markets. And I think we eliminated a number of open-air drug markets. Have we eliminated all drugs? No, we haven't. But it was very specific for an open-air drug market and an open-air drug market where people were lined up like car washes to sell their drugs.

Well, I know that for the last few years, we haven't had Operation Safe Streets. So basically it will just be increased patrols? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Operation Safer Street is a more comprehensive program. It not only involves Police, but it involves DHS, it involves social services. It involves a lot of -- it's clergy. It involves community. It involves a lot of people. Operation Safe Street was strictly a Police operation. Operation Safer Street involved a lot of City services. 183 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114

Well, I know they have the fairs, the community service fairs. I know that, because those questions are starting to come up from constituents. I was at a meeting last night and people raised the questions. It's getting warmer. Last week when it was warm, there were many people out on the streets, and in particular this woman last night talked about the fact that last summer there was increased drug activity on her block and what kind of measures will the City take in -- you know better than I do how every spring everybody that's been in for the winter starts coming out for the summer. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

How do we enter that? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We have officers in every district. We evaluate every district through our Comstat. We have officers that are employed where 184 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 this crime is at, and we will continue to do that. We do it not only in the summertime, we do it in the wintertime. So as the summer approaches, more people are out, we will just continue to have specific patrol in those areas to make sure that there's no crime happening.

Yesterday in Joyce Wilkerson's testimony on the Mayor's office, she testified about a new $5 million line item for Gun Violence Task Force. What exactly is this task force and what do they do and how can you spend the money? Do you have to spend it specifically for guns? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure what task force you're talking about, Councilwoman.

Well, Joyce Wilkerson described it. She said that -- wait a minute. I have her testimony. She was actually talking about the efforts that the lobbyists have made in Harrisburg and in Washington, and 185 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 she says that the -- and she's talking here now about successes. She says, Successes on Harrisburg lobbying included a new $5 million line item for the Gun Violence Task Force. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not aware of it, Councilwoman.

All right. She told me to ask you the question today. That's because they couldn't answer it yesterday. I just wanted to make a comment. I was going through the Internet one day just looking at what people are doing about violence and I saw this program called Operation Project Cease Fire, and I was really happy to read in your testimony that you partner with the ATF on projects such as Project Cease Fire and then you looked at -- you list all the successes of arrests and whatnot and what's good about the program, but I was wondering -- I think that we need to advertise or do a 186 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 community service announcement about this type of program, because maybe this will help prevent some of the young people from owning and being involved with guns, committing crimes with guns. Because this is serious time that it looks like these young people have received or older people, whatever, the federal time that comes along with arrests as it relates to the federal gun cases that people are arrested on and they get federal time. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We have that program here now. If you get arrested with a gun and especially if you're with drugs, there's a large amount of those cases being handled by the federal government. We refer them to the federal government. And we work very closely with the ATF, the FBI and Customs and all the federal sectors. There was posters all over at one time about Operation Cease Fire. It is a federal program and we were involved in it.

I just 187 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 think that more people should know that -- I don't know what the poster said. I don't remember reading them. I'm commending you for being a part of Project Cease Fire and think that if more people knew the large amount of prison time that they would receive, that that might be another means of violence prevention as it relates to weapons. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I agree with you.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

I would like to go back to Councilwoman Miller's first question about the new $5 million line item for the Gun Violence Task Force. Can you tell us where it is in the budget? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The only thing that I know -- I don't know of anything that came to the City. I know that the state, the Attorney General of 188 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 the state, gave us $5 million, and the money did not come to the Philadelphia Police Department. It would come to the City. That money, if we're talking about the same thing, went to the District Attorney's Office for gun violence. And with that money what they were doing was hiring ex-police officers and ex-prosecutors to go to each district just to deal with gun violence. But that's the only $5 million that I can recall coming for guns into the City of Philadelphia, and that was a grant that Senator Fumo helped get. It went to Inspector General -- or the Attorney General and the money went to the District Attorney's Office for that purpose. Nothing came to the City.

Council President --

Ms. Reed, would you double-check that and let us know, please.

Yes, ma'am.

The 189 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Chair recognizes Councilwoman Campbell.

Commissioner, when the Administration is evaluating the amount of money that is used for the Police Department, are you asked what your financial needs are or are you told what you're going to get? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We sit down with the Budget Director and we present a program what we're requesting for that fiscal year. We have numerous amount of meetings with the Budget Director and other people from City government. So we have some input or a lot of input into what we get and what we ask for.

Do you get at least 90 percent of what you ask for? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Most of the time.

Most of the time. What happens when you don't? Is there a shortage in services or what 190 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 needs to happen? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. 4 What we basically do is sit down and go over every single line item, every item that we've had. And we know the Police Department has financial responsibilities like every other bureau has, and I'm sure every bureau wants more money and every department wants more money, but I believe that in the five years that I've been Police Commissioner, we put a budget in and we work it out. There's times we become argumentative with the people that are sitting at the table with us, but I think at this point, we're pretty satisfied with the amount of money that we get compared to other departments.

Tell me, Commissioner, are all of our police officers equipped with the best bullet-proof vests they could have? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. And I think one of the things -- and Deputy Commissioner Gaittens can talk 191 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 about that, because I think we just had a major thing about that. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am. Good afternoon. There was an issue with the Safariland Platinum 6.0 vests because it contained Xylon. It was decertified by the National Institute of Justice, and we had purchased 3,400 of those vests. The problem with the Xylon was that because of moisture and sunlight, there was a deterioration rate of between five and 14 percent of the material. The difference 15 with the vests that the Philadelphia 16 Police Department ordered was, we ordered 17 ours encased in black vinyl, so, 18 therefore, it was not subject to sunlight 19 or moisture. However, because of the 20 fact that it lost its certification, we were concerned about it. Despite the fact that we do our own testing, the NIJ certification is good, but that's primarily for smaller departments who can't afford the expense 192 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 of shooting up several vests at $600 a piece or flying out to California to test the materials before they're manufactured. Being a city of our size, we are able to do that, and we do our own testing to make sure that the material is good. Before any vest is made, the captain of our Firearms Training Unit goes out to the manufacturer. He actually gets to test the material that the vests will be made of. We do our own testing on it, and when we're sure that they meet the specs, we'll certify that batch of material and then the vests are made. The distributor for these, they agreed to replace the vests one for one and we also got a hundred-dollar credit per vest, and we are in the process of replacing them now. To date, of the 3,400, we've replaced 2,244. So that leaves 1,156 left. Our replacement schedule, we should be done that by 193 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 summer of '07. Just to be sure so that we would have our own peace of mind, last week on Thursday after Comstat, I went down to the range and shot up a vest myself, and I put six rounds in it. The test usually consists of six rounds fired into the vest and you check for penetration, and there was absolutely no 11 penetration in the vest that I shot. And the day before, the captain of the Firearms Training and one of the firearms instructors tested a vest. They performed six tests on one vest. So they shot a total of 36 rounds into that vest, with no penetration at all. I'll pass these bullets around if you want to see them. This was what a nine-millimeter Glock bullet looks like after it's hit a bullet-proof vest and was successfully stopped. So we are confident in the vests that we have, but just to be on the side of caution, we are replacing them 194 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 anyway.

You said you replaced 20-some hundred, but there's still 1,100 that's not replaced; is that correct? Did I hear you right? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: That is correct, ma'am. There is 1,156 that we still have to replace. And as I said, the captain just went out to California this week and he certified the material for those vests to be manufactured. So we should have all of those vests replaced by summer of 2007.

But what I need to know, the 1,100 that have not yet been replaced, are officers using them? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, ma'am.

And they're not considered defective? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: No, ma'am, they are not defective.

Then 195 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 why are you replacing them? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Because they are not NIJ certified.

Okay. Thank you.

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Thank you, Madam President. We still have officers on bikes. Someone called in a question from my area asking me if people contribute to officers on bikes within districts, are they still given that assignment by the districts? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What I decided to do is not take gifts for bikes, and the reason being is that you may have an area in the business community that went out and bought a $500 bike, but they feel as though they own the $50,000 police officers. They only want that bike where they want him at. And then they basically said, I bought 196 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 the bike for you, where is my bike? So it is better to buy our own bikes and be in control of the officers without the criticism. I appreciate the citizens that want to be involved, but sometimes we have problems with that, because once they buy that bike, they think they bought the officer and that officer belongs to them.

Thank you.

You're welcome. The Chair again recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to go back to a program that we identified having some problems associated with it and I would appreciate, Commissioner, the information provided to the Chair so we can look at it on paper, and it has to do with the 197 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 police off-duty overtime program where we realized that we had some people that were getting the service from our Police Department and not paying their bills. And I believe that there was an aggressive overhaul of that program. So what I'd like the Chair to receive is a copy of the policy and also if you could give us an accounting where we are, how much money did we write off that we weren't able to collect from the past and how the program is managed now. And hopefully we are out of the woods, so to speak, with the problems of the past. So if you could just give us a little oversight on that, it would be greatly appreciated. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. The reimbursable overtime program was established back in 1995. It generates about a million dollars a month in revenue. The problems as you stated were correct. We were having problems collecting, and a lot -- I don't have the 198 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 exact figures. I could contact the Law Department to find out how much was eventually written off. But because of that, last year we changed the policy that first-time users, if they're only going to use our services one time, must pay 100 percent up front. If it's going to be a continuous use, they would have to pay 50 percent up front and then obviously they would not get it again until they paid their bill on time. And the people who have consistently been paying all along and have been consistent customers, obviously we continue in that process. The Revenue Department came up with this project through a productivity loan to make this a more technologically efficient program where we would be able to do requests for service online, E-billing online and to -- basically where we're doing all the bills by hand, to do that electronically. As you observed, it has run 199 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 into several glitches. There were software issues. There were vendor issues. Currently, the Police Department is working together with MOIS. It is getting back on track now. Just recently we abated $3.6 million in overtime for the overtime earned September of '06 through January of '07. So we are moving forward with that. We are back on track. I will make sure that there's a copy of this provided for you and we'll find out from the Law Department just how much money was --

Deputy Commissioner, you're telling me that the technical issues have not yet been resolved? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: It is not totally done yet, no, sir.

Well, we're going to need to -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Only Traffic Division is doing the billing electronically at this point in 200 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 time. The rest of the City, we're still doing it manually through our finance.

I'm going to inquire to the -- I'm sure that would aid to your efficiency, having all of that that you just described working properly, correct? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir.

We're going to ask MOIS to comment on why there's been a delay in that implementation. I'll get back to them. Are they here now? Is that what you do? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. The CIO, Terry Phillis, just left. He had a 3:30 meeting, but said he'd be happy to come back.

Is that where you work? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. I work for the Police.

We'll get 201 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 them back. We'll get them back to answer that question. The last question that I have today, all the issues with the 800 trunking radio system, and I believe, Deputy, that's your area of responsibility. Frank Punzo has done a great job, I think, in pulling all that together, and that is currently his responsibility. The 800 trunking radio and the 9-1-1 communication center does a great job with that. The issues of dead spots, I understand we still, from police officers that I know, that still are dealing with locations in Philadelphia that they have to relocate their patrol car to communicate with police radio. How many dead spots do we know? I understand they're all listed. And what are we doing to correct those issues? A 14th District car, from what I understand, cannot communicate from Forbidden Drive and Bells Mill Road and 202 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 Northwestern and Germantown Avenue, and then there's some areas in Southwest, apparently 50, 60. I don't know the number. Could you tell the number of locations that are known to be problematic? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: I do not have that information with me, Councilman. I'd be very glad to get that and forward it to you. As far as what are they doing about it, I've had discussions with both Frank Punzo and Joe James on the issues. Basically, there is never going to be a radio system with 100 percent when you're talking about citywide. The amount of dead spots under the current 800 megahertz system are fewer than what we had under the old analog system. But I will get that information for you, sir.

Commissioner, they tell me, the technical people tell me, that there are fixes for this, that there's mini receivers and 203 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 transmitters that could be installed in the perimeter of those dead spots. I don't think an officer that gets involved in a police action thinks about where he stops a person. Now officers are telling me that if they do a car stop, they actually wait until they get away from this particular area. I mean, that's not a good way to work, that you've got to kind of nurse the car stop to go to an area where you have the elevation to communicate. So if there is technically a way to fix these locations, I encourage that, because the last thing we need is to have a bonk -- and we all know what a bonk is -- when a police officer needs some help. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir.

So if you could get back with me -- and hopefully the officers know where these problems are -- what we're doing about it, because 204 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 it's indirectly your issue but it's more a communications problem, but you are the customer and I think you should -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS: Yes, sir. I will.

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)

Thank you all very much. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'd just like to say one thing. Probably, unless I'm called back for the budget, this is the last budget address that I will ever give to City Council, because I'm leaving. But I appreciate everything that you've done for the Philadelphia Police Department, all Councilpeople, and the support you've given me personally. 205 3/21/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114 But this is my last City Council presentation for the budget, and hopefully whoever will take my place will get the same amount of consideration that you've given me. Thank you very much.

And we certainly appreciate all that you have done and will continue to do. Thank you very much. This Committee will stand in recess until Monday, March the 26th at 10:00 a.m. Thank you all very much. (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 3:25 p.m.) - - - 206 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 21, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)