But you didn't bring that language -- you didn't bring what language we should lower taxes by, you didn't have specific information on phasing in and buffering, nor did you bring anything to say that the Administration supports this on the millage rate, this is what we should do to make it revenue-neutral. None of that. All of that is on Council to tell its people like, "We just going to raise your taxes" -- MR. McNEELEY: No, it -- 105 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590
And we're not willing to do that. We're not going to tell our citizens that we're just going to blindly support partial legislation that would definitely increase their taxes. We're not going to do that. MR. McNEELEY: It's not on Council to do that. What I said was that until --
Of course it is, based on your statement. MR. McNEELEY: No. What I said was, until we know the actual assessments, it's difficult to identify the best remedy. It's hard to identify which policy to use when you're talking about over 400,000 properties and you're talking about changes in assessments of all different magnitudes for those different properties. So what we want is to get preview data from the BRT, analyze that, 106 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 talk with you and your technical staff about that, and then identify the best remedies. And we have two years to do that because this doesn't take effect until the tax is due in 2009.
Then we think you can support us, and we understand it's some 568,000 properties. MR. McNEELEY: Mm-hmm.
At any rate, we hope that the Administration will consider what we've said and support us in maintaining the status quo until we have all of the other questions answered and, as Councilman DiCicco says, so that the trust factor that exists between us and the people we represent can be maintained. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
One of 107 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 the -- one of the concerns that I have is the way we value a property. MR. McNEELEY: Mm-hmm.
I've done some reading on this, and some of the things that have occurred in other municipalities is the fact that when you assess a community based on sales, right away, you're creating a situation that if in our city, a person does a lot of upgrade to their property, unless you actually visit a property, look at a property, it's very tough to tell the value of a house that sold on the north side of the street versus a very senior citizen that still has the very basics when the house was built, meticulously maintained, clean, but still may be a property with one bathroom, a second bathroom wasn't added, and the records don't reflect that. MR. McNEELEY: Mm-hmm.
So how we implement and how we actually value the 108 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 properties, because some communities won't do just on comps. They actually -- I don't think they call them appraisals, but they call them something close to it, an evaluation of the property. MR. McNEELEY: Mm-hmm.
But until you really can get your nose in the door, which I don't think many of our senior citizens especially would welcome -- MR. McNEELEY: Right.
-- that you're going to cause a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress for people because they'll get a tax bill that's the same as the guy across the street that has granite tops, and they have formica. MR. McNEELEY: Right. You know, this is really more Mr. Glancey's area, but --
I'm just trying to let you know where we're 109 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 heading here. MR. McNEELEY: Yeah. But I believe what they've been doing is, they've gone out for a physical reinspection of every property from the exterior, just from the exterior. As you said, it would be difficult to get inside people's homes, and I think they've worked on acquiring better data from third parties of interior characteristics. So part of the process is to get better information about all of the properties, and then part of the process is implementing better IT systems and better ability to model all of that. So, you know, they've been working on that from both those sides.
But I can tell you the research that I have done, it has created a nightmare in some communities because of the fact that it was just impossible to truly value a property based on what something sold 110 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 around the corner. You just can't do that. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you, Mr. McNeeley. Thank you very much. I have -- the following people are listed -- I have four more people listed, and maybe they could all come up so we can move as quickly as possible. Again, with all due respect, I ask that your comments be brief 'cause we have a whole different subject of people, and unfortunately, I see that list -- that area getting less and less occupied. I hope people aren't going home. Alisa Orduna-Sneed, Betty Reavis, and then I have Mary Jenkins and Ann Agee, if I'm pronouncing it right. So if you could all be ready so that we 111 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 could try to move as quickly as possible. (Witnesses come forward.)
Welcome back, Alisa. Nice to see you. Please identify your -- you know how this works. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Good morning. My name is Alisa Orduna-Sneed, and I'm the Executive Director of the Partnership CDC. On behalf of the Partnership, I'm here to testify in favor of Bill No. 19 060576 and Resolution No. 060590. Currently, we believe that there's too much misinformation and mistrust between the citizens of our district and the BRT to substantially support changes within the tax assessment process at this time. 112 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 Given the rapid rising values in land prices, especially in previously undervalued communities, there's a real fear in the neighborhoods that we serve that full valuation is a strategic approach to further dislocate low-income and minority homeowners. The fact that many new homeowners and investors are eligible for the ten-year tax abatement only adds to this fear as the burden of a new tax formula will fall on current homeowners. And, again, as the senior issue has been mentioned, in West Philadelphia alone, there are at least 30 percent of our homeowners who are seniors over the age of 62. While their Social Security and pensions are calculated together as often is required for the various tax relief programs, they make too much money and have too little, however, to pay their utility bills, make needed home repairs, afford their medications, and maintain a comfortable lifestyle. 113 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 Finally, yesterday's tragedy whereby a mother and her four children were killed in an abandoned home only highlight the issue of a growing problem of limited affordable housing options within our city. As a certified counseling housing agency, on a daily basis, we see at least two to three people living in substandard housing because the have no 12 other options. The majority of substandard homes are legacy housing whereby they are inherited legally or by default from an older relative. Legacy housing is seen as often as the best option for achieving home ownership, as heirs can legally have right to by title just based on birth right versus having a lump sum of savings, providing proof of income, or other financial means as would be required in acquiring property in traditional processes. Often these properties also come with a heavy tax 114 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 burden and are threatened for sheriff's sale at any day. Recent housing studies show that housing discrimination is on the rise and that communities are becoming more and more segregated based on race and class. It is our mission at the Partnership CDC to reverse these trends. To this end, we believe that a new tax assessment strategy could be used as a policy tool to positively create strong mixed-income communities whereby racial, economic, and social diversity will flourish. At present, we fear that the present full valuation recommendation will create the opposite impact, and our long-term constituents, working-class folks of mixed races, are very afraid for their immediate future. Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to testify before you today. We are very happy to see that our constituents will have a voice in their 115 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 future through the approval of Bill No. 3 060576 and Resolution No. 060590. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
The next name I have is Betty Reavis. Identify yourself for the record and proceed, please. (Applause.)
I'm President of the Walnut Hill Community Association, and our boundary lines are 45th Street east to 52nd Street west, Market Street north to Spruce Street south. We were organized 44 years ago by a group neighbors who were concerned and came together to address those concerns of safety, health, beautification, education, and housing. These concerns have not changed through the years, and the residents have worked 116 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 diligently over the years for the betterment of their neighborhood. In 1977, the Housing Committee of Walnut Hill formed the Walnut Hill Community Corporation to combat the issue of housing. Around this time, the community was faced with many dire problems such as crime, safety, vacant lots, abandoned and deterioration of property, slum landlords, and housing code violations. These conditions brought in less social conscious citizens along with many other problems. Town meetings were held with the multi-media coverage from television, radio, newspapers, the mass door-to-door flyer distribution. The residents voiced their most serious problems regarding the housing code violations, educational problems at West Philadelphia High School, and crime against senior citizens. City officials were present as well as state representatives. 117 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 The community faced their problems head-on with persistence and hard work. And with the assistance from the proper authorities, they achieved a major success. In recent years, members have been involved with the following projects. They worked with developers to rehab the Chatham Apartments at 49th and Locust Street; they worked with the Partnership CDC to upgrade their housing stock; they turned vacant lots into gardens; they hold drug vigils; they have a youth program at West Philadelphia High School; they have had after-school programs at Lee School for tutoring and assisting teachers; and they have a scholarship program for college-bound students who reside in Walnut Hill. Today, many of our residents are still working relentlessly to maintain the quality of life in its viable community. Many of us have 118 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 reached the age of retirement -- 60s, 70s, 80s. Yes, 80s. Our treasurer is 88 years of age (Applause.)
We have seen our community go through many transitions, and we are proud of work that our members have done to maintain this community. Yes, there are still problems -- mostly drugs. However, this problem is not exclusive to Walnut Hill. I have attempted to provide you with some history of our organization. I now strongly appeal to you to consider the devastating effect that the implementation of the Full Valuation Initiative would have on many of our seniors -- many of our citizens, especially our retired senior citizens whose retirement income is based on salaries earned 15 to 20 or more years ago. The value of real estate has exploded in University City, and these 119 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 real-estate taxes will be reassessed at one hundred percent market value. This type of increase will create an unfair burden on those who deserve better and who are already heavily burdened with the high cost of medicine and utility bills. It will force people out of the Walnut Hill community, people who have worked hard to preserve this community. Shall the following referendum question be placed on the ballot in May of 2007? Shall the Philadelphia Board of Revision of Taxes implement its Full Valuation Initiative, thereby increasing real estate assessment in the City of Philadelphia? Walnut Hill Community Association's response to that question was an emphatic no. But after testimony, we're thinking maybe we should think about that differently. We strongly object -- to go on to that, we strongly object to that 120 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 question being placed on the ballot. However, we do support an amendment calling upon the citizens of Philadelphia to urge the Philadelphia Board of Revision of Taxes to retain their current method of real-estate assessment and not change to the Full Valuation Initiative. Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. Thank you very much for your testimony. (Applause.)
Mary Jenkins? Oh, that's you. It doesn't matter. Either/or. You're at the microphone, Miss Agee. Go ahead.
I came with the Granny Peace Brigade. 121 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590
Yes. I did not intend to speak with them, but I'm moved to speak on think issue as well because I'm a Philadelphia homeowner and a retired person, and also, I've made a little bit of a study, or I have some knowledge that perhaps would allow me to raise a couple of issues. One of them is about the abatements. I'm not so sure that the abatements -- like, for instance, the tax on salaries or the tax on the -- the wage tax in Philadelphia, that's been touted as being a disincentive. I'm not so sure that the abatements themselves are a tremendous -- are the incentive that they are touted to be. I think that there are other factors involved in the real-estate boom in Philadelphia and -- one of which is the low interest rate that has created huge amounts of investable money on the 122 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 part of investors. And so -- the second thing is that that creates also inequities, as has already been brought out, so that's something that needs to be addressed. And the second thing is that there's another kind of inequity in taxing in this city that has been mentioned by Mr. McNeeley, I believe, but sotto vocce, and we've been sort of dancing around this issue. And that is that a study has been made, and it's been found, that people in the neighborhoods are paying higher rates of tax than people in Center City. You all know that. Oh, I'm not telling you anything you didn't know. Okay. I just wanted to make that point. So we do need to change the system. And the system that's going on right now, of course, is one that has its inequities, too. I'll just mention Chicago because I was just consulting with a 123 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 friend who tells me that the tax rate in Chicago is much, much higher than in Philadelphia, the very heavy tax burden in Chicago. They have a different economy, they have a different structure altogether, but that's just a point to be raised. What I'm bringing up here is that I need on NPR the other night on a program called "News and Notes" that addresses mainly African-American issues, they were talking about Chicago and how the whole city has been totally renewed. And, literally, many people of color have been forced to move to the suburbs. This is also happening in Washington, D.C. And so, you know, Philadelphia's participating in something that is probably nationwide, but in any case, it's happening in number of other cities.
Miss Aggee, just so I -- if I could just 124 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 ask quickly. Are you in favor of putting this question on the ballot or not? I'm not real clear on what you --
That we need to do a good job of educating people about what all of the issues are and assuring people that equity is what we're really about.
And, you know, and my last point was this, that, you know, we're in the computer age, and we can develop screens for, you know, bringing about this kind of equity because everybody feels -- you know, we feel that this equity question is being addressed, but, as I said, in a kind of quiet way. And we need -- we need people in general to be aware of what these issues are. 125 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 And the final thing I would say is that on February 23rd, there's going to be an all-day seminar at Temple University on real-estate issues and changing the real-estate tax, and it's happening at the law school at Temple University. You can contact Brett Mandell, M-A-N-D-E-L-L.
And you can look to your left, and he's sitting right there.
Thank you, Miss Agee. Thank you. Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
It's now "good afternoon," but good afternoon. Identify yourself for the record and proceed, please. 126 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590
My name is Mary -- Evangelist Mary L. Jenkins -- Odom Jenkins, I shall say, and I'm President of Mantua Community Planners, Inc. This tax issue, I'm going to read the documentation that you have, and then I'm going to piggyback on a few things. Councilman Greenlee and members of the City Council, I am here to testify regarding the Bill No. 060576 and Resolution No. 060590. I believe that the Philadelphia Board of Revision of Taxes should retain its current method of assessing real-estate taxes. I fully support the bill and resolution without any amendments, change, or thoughts of doing so. The change would place a hardship up on many residents. Because of high taxes in the City of Philadelphia at present, many residents are struggling to pay taxes. I don't 127 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 understand why the reason for change. Whatever it is, hopefully the Philadelphia Board of Revision of Taxes would be able to enhance the betterment of the citizens. The question should be on the ballot so the residents can decide if there will be a change. Now, I just want to further piggyback and say that my reason for saying this is because Philadelphia residents are suffering now tax-wise. There's a song being sung out there every day, and I hear the song that's being sung. They're singing this song: "More taxes, more taxes, more taxes." And, you know, it is so sad because we have senior citizens who do not understand the tax system at all. And then we have residents who don't understand the change, why the change. And every time they hear a change, the change is pay more taxes. We have senior citizens who are afraid of losing their homes because of 128 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 taxes, and they're sitting down with me every day, talking about their taxes. This is a serious issue, and I think now is the time that this ballot be put on -- put out there for the citizens and the residents of Philadelphia to decide what should be changed. It is time for a change, but we want change for a betterment, not to make the struggle harder for the citizens and the residents of this city. It is so hard. I mean, these taxes, people are giving up their homes because of taxes. And the broad issue is that it is time that people become educated. I heard something about a tax revision or a tax workshop, tax conference or whatever. That is needed. We should have more conferences. We should have conferences all the time centered around taxes, raising people's taxes, they don't -- and they're asking 129 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 why. So my question is -- I mean, I have a question. What can we do and what are we going to do to make this taxation problem understandable so the citizens and the residents would understand more about what's going on with their taxes? That's my thought.
I know we have just one more person. I'd like to thank all of the community leaders -- this is the Mother of Mantua -- for coming. And she reminds me of what we studied in elementary school that said "taxation without representation," and it reminded me of that phrase. But we want to thank them all, 130 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 Mr. Chairman, for being here.
I agree. Thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell. Is there anybody else to --
Okay. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
I'm Ruth Adams from West Powelton Concerned Community Council giving testimony. We're testifying on Bill No. 060576 and Resolution 060590. We are appalled to hear of notions about real-estate taxes in the City of Philadelphia possibly being increased again. The thought is terrifying. Seniors who have worked for years investing in their homes with the expectation of living their last days in comforts are now being plagued with high utility bills, unbelievable prescription costs, and food prices skyrocketing. 131 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 Now another tax increase would surely do us in. Everyone is not in the bracket to receive help. Fifty cents over the guidelines disqualifies a person for assistance. And then there are the young people just starting out with children and day care experiences and school loans to be paid. We realize taxes are need to keep cities afloat, but plans should be implemented to protect those who could become homeless with another tax increase. What about setting up a homestead act or something similar for seniors who have been in their homes for X-number of years and have put all of their earnings and savings in the upkeep of their property. Or maybe a tax credit or a tax freeze. This testimony is critical, and we are trusting that you will consider another avenue to raise funds for our 132 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T-BILL 060576, RES. 060590 city. And we have brought petitions from 472 people, and we are in agreement with Miss Blackwell. (Applause.)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to thank Alisa Sneed, Executive Director of the Partnership CDC; Miss Adams from West Powelton Community Council; Betty Reavis, Walnut Hill Community Association; Reverend Mary Jenkins, Mantua Community Planners. We have Alice Wright, United Block Captains who is here, and all other people who have come to certainly try to protect their survival and their rights to be productive citizens in our city. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Councilwoman. 133 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Anybody else to testify on this? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will move to the next bill and resolution finally for you folks who have been so patiently sitting there. Mr. Boyle, will you please read Bill No. 060849 and Resolution No. 11 060861, please.
Ordinance 060849, an ordinance providing for the submission to the qualified electors of the City of Philadelphia of an amendment to Article VIII, Chapter 5 of the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, entitled, "Referenda Approved by the Voters," by adding a new section 20 providing that the citizens of Philadelphia urge the United States to make year 2007 the time to redeploy U.S. troops out of harm's way in Iraq; fixing the date of a special election for such purpose; prescribing the form of ballot 134 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 questions to be voted on; and authorizing the appropriate officers to publish notice and to make arrangements for the special election. Resolution No. 060861, a resolution proposing an amendment to Article VIII, Chapter 5 of the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, entitled "Referenda Approved by the Voters," by adding a new section providing that the citizens of Philadelphia urge the United States to make year 2007 the time to redeploy U.S. troops out of harm's way in Iraq. (Applause.)
Thank you. Councilwoman Blackwell, did you want to make a brief statement?
Thank you very much. We are so appreciative of members of the Granny Peace Brigade, and I watch them on TV. They're 135 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 everywhere -- they may be in Harrisburg, they may be in Washington, they may be here. I missed their last one where they wanted to protect someone in the service who didn't want to go to Iraq. And we want to thank them for their diligence, for their commitment, for their hard work, and all other people in our city, state, and country who realize there's no criticism here; we're just saying that it's time to come home. (Applause.)
So certainly we want to make that clear. We know that some members can't support it, but we want to make it clear we're not criticizing the president, we're not criticizing anybody in his administration. And we thank all of those who sacrifice their lives every day. We recognize their families, we recognize their supreme sacrifice. We're only 136 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 saying it's time to bring men and women home. And, again, I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for hearing this. We thank all who are here and look forward to this testimony.
Thank you, Councilwoman. And I'd like to incorporate my feelings the same way as yours; I think you stated it very well. I have -- I'm sorry. Any other questions or comments first? (No questions.)
No? I have two -- I have a long list, but I have basically two groups that are listed to testify: The Granny Peace Brigade and -- well, actually, I have a couple, but also Delaware Valley Veterans for Peace. I'm going to call the Granny Peace Brigade. If I could respectfully suggest, if you have a couple of -- one or two spokespeople so we could try to 137 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 move this along because we want to make sure we have our quorum so we can vote. So please come forward, identify yourself for the record, and proceed with your testimony. (Witnesses come forward.)
My name is Marlena Santoya, and I am with the Granny Peace Brigade, Philadelphia. As you well know, we recently had an election. Seventy percent of the people of this country said that the election was about the war. We have had enough of partisan politics. The people have voted, and we believe that it is indeed time to bring our troops home safely. (Applause.)
We realize that Philadelphia is the fifth largest city in the state [sic], and it is time that we, the people of Philadelphia, go on record as stating clearly that we are not about occupation. We are not about 138 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 occupation in this country and we respect the rights of other countries. That it is time that we realize that it's -- that the way to resolve our issues are with political action and not with military endeavors. And so, I respectfully ask each and every one of you here to honor the voice of the people of Philadelphia and to recognize that, indeed, it is time for you to represent the people of Philadelphia and to bring home our troops. Thank you. (Applause.)
Before you proceed, the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Campbell.
Can you hear me, Mr. Chairman? 139 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861
I have to leave, but I wanted to go on record that I'm voting on yes on all bills and resolutions.
Okay. The record will reflect that. Thank you, Councilwoman.
Thank you, Councilwoman. UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: I appreciate that, Councilwoman.
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed. Thank you.
I am also from the Granny Peace Brigade. I want to talk about two things. One is money. I got your 140 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 attention. Money. You all know, because you know the city budget, you work with it all yearlong. You know how much the City of Philadelphia depends upon the influx of federal funds on all levels -- education, transportation, the airport the dredging of the Delaware River, the various military installations that are here in the city still, even though the Navy Yard is having problems. My check that comes in from Social Security, all of the federal money is in jeopardy. All of it is in jeopardy because the federal budget is in debt. It is getting deeper in debt, and the reason -- there's one important reason -- there are a lot of other minor reasons. The biggest reason is the Iraq War. (Applause.)
$258 billion estimated in a newspaper article, and we're talking about -- that's about a 141 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 year ago that that was the estimate in debt, that's going into our debt. What makes the City Council of Philadelphia think that you will have the money to spend on anything if the bucks are going to come from the feds if they've already spent it -- in fact, gone into debt in order to continue this idiotic war. Point one. Point two. As much as I support Jannie Blackwell and her effort to get think on the ballot so that at least the people of Pennsylvania -- or, I'm sorry, the people of Philadelphia will have a chance to say what they think, even though Philadelphians can't -- don't have jurisdiction, it doesn't matter. If we can say what we think, it will have an influence. I support her bill, with one small exception that's fairly a big exception, actually, when it comes down to it. Get rid of the word "deployment." We don't want the troops 142 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 deployed to Iran. (Applause.)
We don't want the troops deployed to Kuwait. We want the troops brought home to the United States. (Applause.)
If I could just mention on the witness's point, though. I believe, in the title of the resolution and bill, it specifically mentions Iraq, so I don't think we can bring in any other subject in the body. Councilwoman?
But this was as much as we could get everybody to agree to. 143 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861
Okay. After this gentleman who was just here, I did have a request, after this gentleman that was at the table, for the next speaker to be Cathy Santos and the National Alliance of Women Veterans. Okay, is that you?
Okay, so you will be next. Sir, please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
I'm Bill Perry of Veterans for America. We're a coalition of Korean War veterans, Second World War veterans, Vietnam veterans; all are veterans. And our leadership is made up of Iraq veterans and Afghanistan veterans. What I would like to make clear is, the winner of the May primary, in all probability, will either be the United States Representative from the 1st District or the United States 144 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 representative of the 2nd District, two fabulous Philadelphians, who have, for a long time, have signed on to the Out of Iraq Caucus in Washington, D.C., two Philadelphians who we know, whichever one wins, we know where he's going to stand come November. And what is really important, after the dust clears in May, for all practical purposes, the winner of the primary will be the winner in November. We need something to focus our corporate press on the impossibility of moving the administration. We want the corporate press to help the five-county area around this city understand how we feel in this city about saving lives. So far, 3,123 folks have died in this war. By November's election, it will be close to 4,000. By the May election, it will be in the 3500 range. We've got to do something now. We really realize the importance of this bill. 145 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 And we know how Philadelphia will vote. We have great confidence in the citizens of Philadelphia, and we expect this to be on the ballot. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
Miss Santos, please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Cathy Santos, founder of the National Alliance of Women Veterans. Yes. Good morning and thank you all for these important hearings on bringing the troops home from Iraq and to place this on the ballot. I also want to thank Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell for her continuing support of veterans and homelessness. The National Alliance of Women 146 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Veterans, we're an advocacy group, and we address veteran's issues, particularly women veteran's issues and those that have suffered from sexual assault in the military. Over the past years, 8 advocacy has included corresponding with 9 the Veterans Affairs Committee and the 10 Senate Judiciary Committee and the 11 related subcommittees and other levels 12 of government, most recently addressing 13 the issue of the Patriot Act and the 14 Domestic Spying Program, the Department 15 of Defense instituting of the Sexual-Assault Database Management System, and the war in Iraq, which has increased our awareness and revealed many problems that exist within the military as we deal with the issue of terror, also as an activist on Capitol Hill in support of stopping the war in Iraq, along with supporting other veterans groups and peace activists. My purpose of this testimony is 147 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 to add somewhat of a different spin here. I support putting the question on the ballot to bring the troops home; however, my question is: What are we going to bring them home to? (Applause.)
It is my belief that based on a study that proved that innocent lives are lost and are at risk as a result of the president's decision to fight terror and to locate weapons of mass destruction. Since 9/11, it is still not clear what we are fighting for, and there was no findings of weapons of mass destruction, neither has there been any progress in the capture of Osama Bin Laden, who was identified as the perpetrator of the attack on the Twin Towers and central to the international terrorism. As of February 7, there was 3,000-plus deaths, 149 from Pennsylvania, 69 women, and over 50,000 wounded soldiers in Iraq. And we are in 148 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 jeopardy of escalating the war by another 21,000. It's my belief that veterans who are returning from the Iraq War not receiving level of care that their conditions sometimes warrant. , for me, it's horrendous. I believe that the health care is basically in question. A. Hospital prepared to handle the level of care? I know that Brooke Hospital and Walter Reed Hospital have just built a rehabilitative unit to deal with the brain injuries and then loss of limbs. Many of these soldiers are coming home with conditions that their family is not prepared to deal with, they're not equipped to deal with. However, I spoke with 149 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Dr. Gintos, who is the chief surgeon at the University of Pennsylvania, who actually believes that they have the best technology possible to deal with the care of these individuals, and that the mothers are comforted by that. However, that does not diminish the -- in my belief, the extreme extent of this war. I think that this war -- the troops should be brought home, but in coming home, there needs to be a level of care to handle the conditions that they are bringing home. I do believe that the State of Pennsylvania is somewhat slower in addressing he issue on the veterans. I've been somewhat advocating on trying to get Pennsylvania government to represent this issue in Washington. I do believe that -- what Senator Bob Casey from the Foreign Relations Committee in Washington, that we can get this issue more on the table for how it represents us in 150 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Pennsylvania. Recently, I was at a forum where the New Jersey National Guard and the Delaware National Guard were represented. However, there was no 7 Pennsylvania representation there, which surprised me in that this forum was held in Pennsylvania, and I was told that the Pennsylvania general, or whoever would have been represented, was probably too busy. The issue concerning the veterans that I speak from Iraq, they are homeless. They are being jailed because of their illnesses not being recognized and diagnosed. They are being denied treatment because they're saying that certain illnesses are in their head or nonexistent. So my question is: Can we bring these troops home and prepare them for wholeness? Can we bring them back to a level that exists where they could be whole and transition into society and 151 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 be whole again? It is my belief that there is a tremendous amount of veterans that have psychological illnesses that are being absorbed, I'll say, into the normal population, where the civilians are not prepared to deal with these people, so we identify them as mentally incapacitated to some degree. And they're being put into situations where they are becoming involved in drug use, substance abuse, and subsequently, they're homeless and they're being jailed. A. is dealing with the issue that would give them the eligible benefits where they can become whole and survive and transition back into civilian life.
So that is my concern, and I do believe that these hearings are necessary for bringing up some of the concerns so that the community can get opportunity to hear the concern that 152 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Philadelphia is, in fact, concerned about the war in Iraq and the impact that it will have on our city and our economy, because the ongoing treatment is very costly for these individuals, because it's very intense and it's long-term. And I think that the issue has to be addressed now. I think that it's important that Pennsylvania recognize it as a critical issue. A. A. because they -- they have the concern that they're not getting equal treatment. A. Hospital. We want to be able to reach out to these people and get them the help that they need. My organization, we do outreach. We are offering these veterans a platform to come to confidentially, because once these people are being identified as speaking out or coming forward, they are being harassed, and there's retaliation against them, and I think it's unfair. I think that these women should have the freedom to come and get the services wherever they want to and get that kind of help and support wherever they can get it, and that's what the National Alliance of Women Veterans offer. We recently hosted an event 154 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 where there were several women actually from across the country that came and testified and were relieved that there was an opportunity for them to come and connect with other women veterans with similar problems and share and get some healing because I think that's going to be critical, the healing process, for veterans. One other point is that sexual assault in Iraq is a very major concern, and that when they come home, a lot of times, these episodes are denied. )
They are denied. Excuse me. I'm just -- there's just so much information on this issue that could come out. I'm just trying to just touch on some of the critical points because I deal with the women. This is a major concern that the women are not being treated in a way to have their issues addressed. 155 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 And I think it's important that Philadelphia gets the community in -- gets the community involved in what's going on so that they can realize that veteran women as well as men have critical concerns, and they need to be reaching out to them in some profound way, I think, at this point. I do believe that in the long term, that if the issue is not addressed, that there could be a population -- I understand there's probably 1100 women veterans homeless in the City of Philadelphia. I think there needs to be some kind of monitoring and tracking process done of these veterans so that we can know where they are and how we can reach out and help them. Veterans are not often identified through questionnaires or whatever when they come in to the V.A. I don't understand that tracking process, but I have sought to find out 156 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 through the V.A. However, they have not informed -- or they are -- they're not quick to inform me about the amount of veterans that are homeless. And so the different organizations, the Philadelphia Veterans Multi-Service and Education Center impact -- all of these organizations are very important and they need funding. So I would -- I do believe that putting this ballot -- this question on the ballot would allow the residents to be informed, to be sensitive towards the veterans and their issues. Delaware and New Jersey have 501(c)(3)'s in existence, where they are having sponsorship from the government and from other corporations within their cities that's reaching out to veterans, and I think this city should get on board and consider doing some of the similar things. (Applause.)
And I do believe 157 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 that it's going to be important as people become more aware of the issues that veterans face. And I don't want to be too late. There are -- there are veterans that are in situations that I do believe, if these -- if there was a outreach, if there was the kind of agencies available when they were known, that there would be less suffering amongst the veterans. So I do support putting the question on the ballot. And thank you, Councilmembers, and all those that support the veterans' rights groups, Iraq Veterans Against the War and all the different veterans groups that are just doing all that they can to bring attention to this. And I think it's very important that we all get on board and support this matter. (Applause.)
Thank 158 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 you, ma'am. Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
Thank you. If you wish to testify, please identify yourself for the record.
Yes, of course. My name is Kelly Dougherty. I am representing Iraq Veterans Against the War, which is a group of service members and veterans who have served since September 11, 2001. I, myself, was in the Colorado Army National Guard for eight years. I now live in Philadelphia. I was in Iraq for a year as a military police sergeant. And I think with the question of Bill 060849 and Resolution 060861, I definitely think that the question should be put on the ballot to the Philadelphia voters as to whether or not 2007 should be the year to bring the 159 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 troops home. We're quickly approaching the four-year anniversary of this war, and hundreds of thousands of people have lost their lives. And the violence continues to escalate. Our presence in Iraq continues to cause instability, and here at home, we're no safer. Of course, 2007 should be the final year that my brothers and sisters in the military face death and destruction in this illegal, immoral war. Of course, 2007 has to mark the final year that the Iraqi people, over half of them children, struggle to survive under the brutal violence caused by the U.S. occupation. With approximately 70 soldiers and unknown thousands of Iraqis being killed every month in Iraq, each day the U.S. military stays in that country, we are basically sentencing men, women, and 160 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 children to death. (Applause.)
The year to bring the troops home is 2007. And to be specific, the time is right now. When we say we need an exit from Iraq, that's not a strategy; it's a command to the military commanders of the United States to bring our troops home. We have the equipment, we have the funding, we have the resources to bring all of our troops out of Iraq, back to the United States quickly, safely, efficiently. And I think that that's really what we need to demand, and I think that's what this bill -- or this vote will put towards the people of Philadelphia, who, I think, will resoundingly be in favor of it. And when I was in Iraq, I got to Kuwait before the war actually started, and I saw how quickly we were able deploy our forces to the region, 161 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 and there is no reason in my mind that we can't redeploy them back to the United States equally as quickly. During my time in Iraq, I saw the suffering that my presence and the presence of my fellow soldiers were causing the people of Iraq. We drove past cities that have been completely destroyed by the bombing and the ground invasion, and the only rebuilding that I saw happening was on our military bases. Every day we'd see dozens of Iraqis living in abject poverty, struggling just to provide for their families. Things that we here take for granted, such as electricity, clean water, fuel, and medical care, were in short supply. We spent much of our time escorting Halliburton fuel tankers to and from military bases. When these vehicles would break down, rather than recovering the $80,000 trucks and their truckloads of fuel, we would be ordered 162 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 to destroy them, to burn fuel in front of civilian populations who would wait all day in the dust and the heat just to fill up their tank with gas. We would raid people's homes and arrest Iraqi men, even at times women and children, I'm sure, even if they hadn't actually committed a crime or posed a threat. We didn't have translators, and the sentiment was that it was better to just arrest someone and that they would -- it would be sorted out later. S. military. I also witnessed my fellow service members indiscriminately firing bullets and concussion grenades into crowds of civilians. S. violence. We're placing our service men and women in situations where they're basically just fighting to survive and fighting to keep their friends alive. We're causing, not preventing, the majority of the violence in Iraq. We have no clear mission, no identifiable end point, and our citizens here at home are no safer. For many of us who make it home alive, we still have to struggle every day with the memories of what we've seen and done in Iraq. The fight doesn't end once we come home, and care and benefits for our returning veterans are sorely lacking. The Department of Veterans Affairs is grossly underfunded, and many of my veteran friends find it hard, if not impossible, to fit back into the 164 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 lives that they left before the war. The negative effects on our veterans, their families, and our communities continue to grow every day we spend in Iraq, which is why need to bring our troops home now. I urge each Councilmember to put this question on the ballot to let it up to the citizens of the United States to decide, because in the end, it's our -- they're our citizens, our veterans, our communities, and we really need to have a say in the way that this country conducts itself in the world and here at home. And we need to provide for the needs of our citizens here at home. Thank you for letting us testify. )
Thank you. And if I could add a thank-you for the service to America.
Thank you. 165 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861
Sir? MR. LaCHANCE: Hello. My name is Mark LaChance, and I'm also with Iraq Veterans Against the War. I served in the Army for five years, from May of 2001 to January of 2006. I served as a calvary scout with the First Infantry Division. I'm not really here to talk, per se, about my service anywhere and also into Iraq, but more about putting this vote to the people, and I think that it's very important that this is done. This is where it starts. Over the weekend, I was looking it up, and 149 service members have died from the State of Pennsylvania, and 11 -- actually, I believe, now 12, but that's not confirmed, have died from the City of Philadelphia. And as more time goes on, that number is only going to increase. So that's why this needs to be (indiscernible). Philadelphia people 166 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 need be able to sit there and tell you so that you can tell everybody else really what's being done. And it's kind of nice because this is non-binding; this isn't saying that this is what the United States is going to do, but this allows Philadelphia to have a voice without creating too much trouble. I also want to say that we were the ones over there with the rifles and the uniforms and walking and getting blown up, but we all went to war, so it's our responsibility to all determine what should and should not happen with this war, and this is the best way to start that process. The debate for Iraq is really over. Now it's time to debate the action that will be taken. Thank you. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. 167 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
I'll just be real quick. My name is Mike Felker. I'm a resident of Philadelphia. I was a hospital corpsman with the Marines in Vietnam, I'm a member of the Philadelphia of Veterans for Peace, and I fully support the referendum to bring the troops home from Iraq. (Applause.)
Thank you. Thank you very much. Is there anybody else that wishes to testify on think bill and resolution? Mr. Miller, my neighbor, please come forward.
Yes? 168 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 Yes, Councilwoman Blackwell?
We want to thank -- while he's coming forward, we want to thank everyone who's come forward to testify and who've waited for so long. We had the other bill before this.
And who, again, have worked so hard to keep this issue alive and who have come back. Many were here at our first hearing, but we thank them all for sticking with us and for coming out again. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Mr. Miller, please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
My name is Eugene Miller. I'm a Philadelphia resident and I'm not representing any veterans group or peace group, but I just learned of this resolution at the last election, 169 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 and I really feel compelled to express my gratitude that the City government, specifically Councilwoman Blackwell, has taken the initiative on this. We really have a stake here in Philadelphia, as a previous commentator stated earlier. The money diverted to this war could bankrupt the nation, and it's already impacted Philadelphia. We've seen the cuts at the Housing Authority. And I -- I urge the Councilmembers to support this Resolution 060861 and put the issue on the ballot. I would be surprised if this resolution got any less than 90 percent of the vote in Philadelphia, and that is not a minor issue. I think state and local government, elected officials, can send a message to Washington, that it's not just the 100,000 people in the streets in Washington or New York, but it's the 170 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 rank-and-file citizens of the United States, of Philadelphia that are opposed to the war. I would also like to enter this into the record. It's House Resolution 7 508, which is in the U.S. Congress. It's the Bring the Troops Home and Iraq Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2007. This was introduced into the U.S. Congress in January, and it was cosponsored by two of our Congressman here in Philadelphia, Fattah and Brady. And I think we should commend them for taking the initiative. (Applause.)
Thank you, Mr. Miller. Any questions or comments? (No questions.)
Is there anyone else who would like to testify? I see one other person coming to the microphone. 171 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861
While she comes forward, let me note that the late Lucien Blackwell was a Korean war vet, and I'm sure, were he here today, he would be taking the same position that we are.
And I think very forcefully so. (Applause.) (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Yeah. My name is Libby Schwartz, I'm representing a group called Northeast Philly for Peace and Justice. And we took this resolution, which was first proposed in the summer, 172 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 'cause the first hearing was September 24th, and we took it to the people just in the Northeast, and over just a few weeks' time, we got all of these people to sign who are really supporting this resolution. So if you need any proof that the people of Philadelphia are for this resolution, here it is, okay? Do you want to take that? Go ahead. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Is there anybody else that wishes to testify on think bill or resolution? (No response.)
Seeing none -- I'm sorry, the Chair recognizes Councilman Savage.
I'd like to 173 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 thank everybody that came out today, especially you that served in any type of war that we've been through in this country. The majority of the population in the U.S. is against the Iraq War, and I think that it is good that we are giving Philadelphia an opportunity to voice their opinion. (Applause.)
My namesake, Daniel J. Savage, was in the Three Force Recon. He was a U.S. marine in Vietnam, and he never returned. He was years old. 17 And if my grandmother was here 18 today, she would be here in favor of 19 this resolution. (Applause.)
Thank you, Councilman. Thank you very much. And I can't resist throwing 174 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 this in for the record. If you remember when this issue came up before, it fell a little bit short, 'cause you need 5 votes. Well, three people have been 6 elected since then. 7 (Applause.) 8
And those 9 three members are on this committee and 10 voting for this bill and resolution, 11 okay? So please remember that. 12 (Applause.)
Sorry for the blatant commercialism. I just had to throw that in. Any other people -- Councilwoman, anything else?
And we brought it back, hoping you all would be with us. Thank you, thank you. 175 2/12/07 LAW & GOV'T - BILL 060849, RES 060861 (Applause.)
Thank you. That concludes the public hearing of the Committee on Law and Government. If you give us one minute, we will go into the public meeting. Thank you. (Applause.) * * * 176 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING
The Committee on Law and Government's public meeting is now in session. The Chair recognizes Councilman Savage regarding an amendment to Bill 7 No. 060576.
I move the amendment for Bill No. 060576. (Motion seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment to Bill No. 060576 be approved. All in favor, say aye. Opposed? The amendment passes. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Savage regarding Bill No. 19 060576, as amended.
I move for the adoption of Bill No. 060576, as amended. (Motion seconded.)
And further, I move for the suspension of 177 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING the rules to allow for first reading at our next scheduled City Council session. (Motion seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded that Bill No. 060576 be approved by this committee and that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at the next session of Council. All in favor, say aye. Those opposed? The motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman Savage regarding an amendment to Bill 16 No. 060590.
I'm sorry, it's a resolution. It's Resolution 060590.
I move the amendment to Resolution 060849 -- (Motion seconded.)
No, no, 178 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING no. I'm sorry. Let's do this again. I'm sorry. That was my fault.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Savage regarding Resolution 060590; the amendment, I'm saying.
Okay, sorry. I move the amendment for Resolution 060590. (Motion seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded that the amendment to Resolution 060590 be approved. All in favor, say aye. Opposed? The motion carries, and Resolution 060590 is amended. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Savage regarding Resolution 22 No. 060590, as amended.
I move for the adoption of Resolution 060590 as amended, and further I move -- 179 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING (Motion seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded that Resolution 5 060590, be approved, by this committee. All in favor, say aye. Opposed? The motion carries, and Bill -- Resolution 060590 is approved by this committee. I'll get this right eventually. The Chair recognizes Councilman Savage regarding an amendment to Bill 14 No. 060849.
Second? Oh, you want to speak on the amendment? Okay. Before we vote, the Chair recognizes Councilman Kelly.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 180 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING Just let me say for the record that I have the utmost respect for the sponsor of this bill and resolution in Councilwoman Blackwell. I think that she's -- she's, like many of us, very frustrated over the conduct of this war, and I think that she's trying to get people motivated into taking action, and I think that she's to be commended. The only reservations I have with this bill -- and, in fact, I mentioned before that my personal opinion is that the troops should be home tomorrow, but I think that's probably asking too much. But I have reservations about it with the timeline. That's the only thing that I am questioning, that I think that this could be a negative impact on the outcome of the war, and I think -- I don't want I want to send the wrong message to the enemies that we have over there. And I think it could -- this could affect maybe the 181 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING safety of the officers and the men and women who are fighting this war. So without the timeline, I would fully support this resolution and bill, but with the timeline in there, Mr. Chairman, I will be voting against this bill.
I don't want to restate everything Councilman kelly said, but I feel the same way. I'm not pleased with the way this war has conducted itself. And if you look over the weekend, you see the suggestion that Iran is now supplying devastating land mines to the Iraqis, which now, even our heaviest armored vehicles can't deal with the technology utilized in the devices. 182 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING The only issue I have is the timeline. If -- and I've talked to a lot of professional warriors who tell me that if we show our hand on a timeline, that it could be very, very difficult for our troops to move forward. So unfortunately, I agree. I'd like to see it over by 1 o'clock this afternoon, but I have to vote no because of the fact that there's a specific timeline.
Thank you, Councilman. Could we just hesitate for one second. I just have one technical question somebody's checking on. Please. (Short break taken.) (Proceedings resume.)
Okay. We're -- the question is the amendment to Bill 060849. All in favor of the amendment, please say aye. 183 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING And the record should reflect -- and I should have said this earlier -- that Councilwoman Campbell wishes to go on record as voting aye on all of -- the bill and resolution and amendments, so she will be recorded as aye. All those opposed to the amendment?
Okay. The record will reflect that Councilman Kelly and Councilman Rizzo are voting no 16 on the amendment. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Savage on Bill No. 060849, as amended.
I move for the adoption of Bill 060849, as amended. And further, I move for the suspension of the rules to allow for first reading at the next scheduled City Council session. 184 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING (Motion seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded that Bill 060849, as amended, be approved by this committee and that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at the next session of Council. All in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
Let the record reflect that Councilman Rizzo and Councilman Kelly are voting no, but the motion passes. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Savage regarding an amendment to Resolution 060861.
It's been 185 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING moved and seconded that the amendment to Resolution 060861 be approved by this committee. All in favor, please say aye. Those opposed to the amendment? Motion carries, and the amendment to Resolution 060861 is approved. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Savage regarding Resolution 12 060861, as amended.
I move for the adoption of Resolution 060861, as amended. (Motion seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Resolution 19 060861 be approved by this committee. All in favor, please say aye. Opposed?
The record will reflect that Councilman 186 2/12/07 LAW and GOV'T PUBLIC MEETING Kelly and Councilman Rizzo voted no, but the motion carries, and Resolution 4 060861 has been approved by this committee. There being no further business at the present time, I thank all of you for your patience, especially with me. And the Committee on Law and Government stands in recess until 1 o'clock, Wednesday, February 14th. Thank you all very much. * * * 187 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Law and Government are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Monday, February 12, 2007, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of think transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)