COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, 11/15/00 9:45 a.m. - - - BILL NO. 000102 - an ordinance amending Chapter 8 9-700 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL NO. 000278 - an ordinance amending Chapter 9 9-700 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL NO. 000540 - an ordinance amending 9-702 of the Philadelphia Code... BILL NO. 000545 - an ordinance amending 6-301 of the Philadelphia Code... RESOLUTION NO. 000555 - a resolution authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold hearings on vacant, abandon and blighted property in Philadelphia... RESOLUTION NO. 000612 - a resolution authorizing City Council Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold public hearings to investigate the current methods utilized by the Department of Licenses and Inspections to enforce Section PM 102.6.3 of the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL NO. 000102, 000278 PAGE OTIS HAIGLER, JR., L&I ........................ ROBERT SOLVIBILE, L&I ......................... 9 BILL NO. 000540 OTIS HAIGLER, JR., L&I ........................ 41 ROBERT HENON, Pennsport Civic Assoc. .......... 43 BILL NO. 000545 HARRIET DICHTER, Childrens Policy .............. 46 JON DOMZALSKI, Dept. of Public Health .......... 54 OTIS HAIGLER, L&I .............................. 54 REBECCA GONZALES, Early Childhood Collaborative . 58 DEBRA BUTLER, Delaware Valley Assoc. for the Education of Young Children .................. 61 LOLA ROONEY, YMCA .............................. 63 GERRI SWIFT, Women's Business Development Ctr .. 67 ANGELA LOGAN, Citizens for Children and Youth ... 71 BILL NO. 000555 MR. SOLVIBILE, L&I ............................. 82 HERBERT WETZEL, Redevelopment Authority ........ 106 DAN QUIMBY, PHA ................................ 117 VINCENT MORRIS, PHA ............................ 130 BENNETT LEVIN .................................. 132 KATE CLARKE, Frankford CDC ..................... 164 ANGEL RECCHIA, Senior Citizens Judicare ........ 172 RICK SAUER, Assoc. Of Community Development .... 177 JOANNE JACKSON, Advocate CDC ................... 183 ANDREW FRISHKOFF, Low Income Housing Coalition . 184 SUSAN SYRNIC, North Light Leadership Team ...... 189 IRENE MADRAK, North Light Community Center ..... 193 JOHN BOYCE ..................................... 194 FRANCES BOYCE .................................. 201 JOHN BOYCE (Sr.) ............................... 204 OTIS HAIGLER, JR, .............................. 209 RESOLUTION NO. 000612 OTIS HAIGLER, JR., L&I ......................... 211 3 P R O C E E D I N G S
The Committee on Licenses and Inspections is brought to order. We have myself Councilman Mariano, Councilwoman Krajewski, Councilman Ortiz, Councilman Rizzo, and Councilwoman Blackwell. The Clerk will read the title of the first bill.
Bill No. 000102, amending Chapter 9-700 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Amusement Businesses," by amending Section 9-703 entitled "Dance Halls and Dances," by prohibiting minors from entering or remaining any premises which possess Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board license, all under certain terms and conditions.
000102, is there anyone to testify on this bill? Let him read 000278 since they're both together.
Bill No. 000278, an ordinance amending Chapter 9-700 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Amusement Businesses," by amending Section 9-703, entitled "Dance Halls and Dances," to provide for licensing and registration of nightclub 4 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 operators, under certain terms and conditions.
Sir, state your name, spell it for the record. Although, we know who you are, everyone doesn't.
Good day, Councilman Mariano and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Legislative Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. At this time, we will stipulate to the testimony that was given at the October 3rd hearing on this bill. And for the record, we would like to read into the minutes amendments to the bill that we have, and I believe that all Councilmembers have been given copies of. You have the amendments? Okay. On of the bill, under the definition, we would insert a new letter B, small letter B in parentheses, to define teen event. And teen event -- it reads as thus: "Teen event shall mean any event or time from which the nightclub is open for use either primarily or exclusively by minors." Also on , under licenses, 5 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 Subsection A.3, we would delete the word "three" for three years and substitute "two," for two years for the renewal period of license so that it would read as thus: "Nightclub operators license shall be renewed every two years upon payment of the renewal fee of $100 subject to the conditions set forth in Subsection 2B herein." On , Section C.1, we would insert under .1 a new subsection .A in parenthesis to read: "To ensure that no 12 nightclub permits a minor to remain upon the premises of said establishment in violation of Chapter 10-300 of the Philadelphia Code, all nightclubs shall conclude all teen events and vacate all minors from the premises no later than one hour prior to the time restrictions set forth in Chapter 10-300 of the Philadelphia Code." That concludes all of our amendments to Bill 000278.
Thank you, Mr. Haigler. Mr. Haigler, explain that to us without all the L&I legalese. What are we doing here? We're adding the amendments to make sure that these minors are out of the dance halls before 6 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 close their door, right?
We're addressing the concerns of Council raised at the last hearing related to teen events, the curfew issue that was brought up with relationship to teen events. There was questions related to the curfew and minors remaining on the premises after the curfew. Our amendment will address that issue by stating for the record -- in our ordinance that all teens would have to vacate the premises, all minors would have to vacate the premises at least one hour prior to the legal curfew that's established in the Philadelphia Code.
So if the legal curfew, if I remember right, on weeknight is 10:30, am I right, it's 10:30?
I always confuse 10:00, 10:30. Let's say it's 10:30, I'm sure it's 10:30, they got to be out by 9:30?
Could you explain 7 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 the enforcement part of this? How will it work? At 9:30, what will occur?
What will occur is that the owner or operator of the establishment will have to announce that all teens will have to vacate the premises. Since that's in our ordinance now, if that does not take place and we are made aware of it, that will be a condition for L&I to take action against that person's license for violating the ordinance. If we got a complaint against that --
Let's say at 10 o'clock a parent would call 9-1-1 and complain that that in fact had occurred, what would occur at that point?
The police department could be dispatched out there to enforce that provision because that's part of Section 10-300 related to curfew and curfew activities.
Has this been worked out with the police department? Do they understand this additional responsibility?
Well, the police department does have a directive, Directive No. 8 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 104, that addresses all issues related to curfew. I believe you do have a copy of their directive in your packet. That can be worked out with the police department. Again, that will be now a provision that we have in place under our ordinance to state that this is required.
So the police department as of today, they're aware that this responsibility of going to these locations to empty them out, they are in fact aware of that.
I don't know if they're aware of it today because I don't know if they're aware of the amendments.
My point -- so many of these things we implement and they never get carried out or people say, "We don't have a clue what you're talking about. No one ever communicated" This is a perfect example of the enforcement agency other than L&I not being aware of or in the loop of what exactly we're doing here today.
Councilman, I would suspect after these hearings that if there's a problem in my district or in DiCicco's 9 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 district, Councilwoman Krajewski, any district Councilman or anywhere in the City, I would just call the police captain and say "If you don't know, we just passed this thing." I'm on a first-name basis with everyone in my council district, so I know where the clubs are that I'm concerned with. I'm sure the other Council people do.
Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner of Licenses and Inspections, S-O-L-V-I-B-I-L-E. As you're aware, Councilman, L&I in close cooperation with the police department has a task force that would handle that between L&I and the police department, a task force to ensure these clubs if we have a complaint they would go and investigate and if they found it to be in violation, we would close it down or get the kids out of there.
Let me ask this question because it has to be asked. Either one you may answer this. Someone's found a violation, the police come and it's open and there's minors in there a certain time past the hour, a good time past the hour, maybe an hour 10 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 past there. You come and you cite them. You can take their dance hall license?
Now, it's one of these clubs that we have problems that also serve alcohol to the 21-year-olds and that imaginary part on the other side of the line. Is there any chance that their liquor license would be in trouble even if there were not any liquor violations but because they had dance hall violations in there and in violation of City ordinance?
Also part of the task force, Councilman, is that the State Police on occasion goes to these establishments with us, and as you know, serving to underage would be, you know, a state violation against their liquor license, so it's all-encompassing group of people that go out to investigate these types of complaints.
My question now, I'm going to make it more specific. It's not per se a violation of the liquor license and the liquor code because this is written after the 11 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 liquor code, maybe some day it will be in there, but do you think that possibly that would help us get this big problem, you know, the problem that we talked about last time with the ones that are doing half-and-halfs?
They would lose their dance hall license. We would make the necessary referrals to the Liquor Control Board and it would be up to them to enforce whatever laws that they have to enforce.
The last time in Councilwoman Krajewski's district we spoke about a place that didn't have a dance hall license, therefore, this would not affect that unless they had a dance hall license. The police could still go in and do the minor thing, right?
Any questions for the committee or any Councilmembers in the 12 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 Chamber? Councilman Nutter, do you have any questions? I would hate to have this pass you by without a question.
Mr. Chairman, if you insist that I have a question, I could figure about a half a dozen of them in the course of talking to Mr. Haigler. I never pass up an opportunity to ask him a question.
Mr. Haigler, In response to Councilman Rizzo's question, you seemed to indicate that at the moment the police department was not necessarily aware of the proposed amendments; is that correct?
To my knowledge. I am not knowledgeable as to whether or not they've been informed of the amendments or if they've been given the amendments by either Council or the Chief of Staff's Office. We forward our amendments to the Chairperson of Council as well as the Chief of Staff's Office, and I'm not aware of whether or not both of those parties may have 13 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 shared these amendments with the police department.
And also, Councilman, I added that the task force working with the police department would handle that more than likely. So -- and it's an ongoing thing with us and the police department, cooperating to control these type of establishments.
Okay. I mean, I guess I would just like to encourage under the circumstances there's virtually nothing worse, and I heard the Chair talk about the situation out in the districts. Sometimes it does take a little while for information to filter down from these hallowed halls out into the real world in the street. And for something like this, I would like to encourage -- I think as the department likes to know what we're doing and what we're proposing when we impose new responsibilities on the Department of Licenses and Inspections, it might help if we're coordinating internally in the government that another department would know something that you are either supporting, encouraging, or plan to try to enforce when the 14 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 ultimate responsibility lie with the police department.
What effort will be made to notify these operators since I guess you're proceeding on the assumption that you're going to know who the operators are because they all have licenses; is that correct?
So what specific steps will be taken to notify all of these operators that there's a change in law and that they have a responsibility to turn up the lights, turn off the music, and vacate the premises an hour before curfew?
As was stated at our last hearing, the Deputy Commissioner for that area, Deputy Commissioner Verdi, had stated at our last meeting that he would assure that copies of the ordinance will be submitted along with the renewal license applications to the license operators at the time that they renew their license as well as explanatory material to be 15 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 also accompanying that. Whatever we need to print up in the way of explanation or if we need to even sit down and meet with certain groups, we will do that.
Okay. Let me just ask a couple questions about a couple sections of the bill on . Is it my understanding that there is also a proposed amendment to change the renewal period from the proposed three years now back to two years?
That would be on 2. And yes, there is. Again, I will state that L&I would enforce whatever we would have to enforce regardless of whether the renewal period was one-year, two-year, or three-year. It's the same as if I might just use an analogy here, I've had my driver's license for years and I can 19 recall when my driver's license was first issued 20 to me it was renewed every year. Now the renewal 21 time period for driver's licenses are every four 22 years. And if I were to accumulate points or to 23 violate the traffic laws any time within that 24 time period, I'm sure regardless of whenever my 25 license is renewed, the system will take action 16 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 against that license. So again, this is the exact same. We would take action, our enforcement action, regardless of whether the renewal period would end. There's nothing changed there.
Okay. Can you provide to the Chair a listing of all of the current either in the previous category, dance hall operators or now you're changing the terminology to nightclub operator, can you provide a list with the Councilmatic District breakdown of all the operators citywide? Was that a "yes" or a "no"?
Thank you. On , in small letter d, under 1, it says: "A nightclub operator's license shall be revoked upon a finding of noncompliance with any provision or provisions of this section. And then there's a new sentence that says "A finding of one instance of noncompliance may be sufficient cause to revoke the nightclub operator's license." Can you explain to me how you 17 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 envision this working when you say that the license shall be revoked upon a finding of noncompliance with any provisions of this section? What is that person's recourse? Are you going to revoke the license on the spot? Are you going to temporarily revoke it? Are you going to quasi-suspend it? What is their recourse?
Excuse me one second, please. In preparation for this hearing, Councilman, you had requested that we draft our regulations to deal with the revocation of licenses and we've done so. And on, let's see, Page -of our proposed regulations under the procedure for license revocation, we have indicated it indicated in there that for conditions where it constitutes a criminal activity or it threatens life and safety that we would immediately revoke that person's license. We're given authority to issue cease-operation orders presently by code for conditions that threaten public safety and health. And our cease-operations orders can be either verbal by 18 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 the inspector or written if it constitutes an immediate threat to public safety and health. For conditions that do not constitute an immediate threat to public safety and health under, Section 2 under the procedure for license revocation, we've addressed that by indicating that we would conduct at least two inspections, subsequent inspections of the licensed premises to ensure that violations have been corrected. If the violations have not been corrected after the subsequent inspections, the department shall notify the violator in writing of the department's intent to revoke the violator's licenses and request the violators appear at a an administrative hearing conducted by the inspections unit to show cause as to why the licenses should not be revoked. If the violator fails to appear at this hearing or does not offer a satisfactory explanation as to why the violations have not been corrected, the chief of the inspections unit shall submit a request in writing to the license issuance unit to revoke the violator's license. In short, we will give due process to the operator as we would give due 19 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 process to any license holder of our intent to revoke their license and it would be up to that person to show cause as to why the department should not act.
Is the license revoked at that point or have you technically just issued a cease-operations order?
We can issue a cease-operations order for any violations of the code. After we've issued the cease-operations order we can further -- the cease-operations order is an immediate order that can be issued by the inspector. The inspector, at the time they do their inspection, they cannot revoke the license at that time. They can only issue whatever violations they have against the premises --
I understand that, I understand that. Have you ever tried to have a cease-operations enforced?
Yes. I used to be the chief of the commercial industrial fire unit.
How do you envision a verbal cease-operations order working? 20 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 That's issued, I'm assuming, 10, 11 o'clock at night and how will the police department know about this and aren't they usually the ones that have to subsequently enforce a cease-operations order if people come back?
Under Directive 48 that the police department has, the police department can arrest, they can enforce the cease-operations order after the Department of Licenses and Inspections issues it.
The department enforcing their various codes, we are given the power to issue a cease-operations order under the administrative code. Once we've done that, then we notify the police department that we have issued and enforced that section of the code that are enforceable and the police department, it's up to them to at that point, to execute Directive 38 to enforce what they have to enforce under that directive.
Okay. I appreciate that. I would just share with you, though, for the record that I have encountered 21 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 many instances where cease-operations orders have been issued and the local police district seemed to have virtually no knowledge of the order.
I have a copy, again, of our cease-operations procedure, and part of that is a letter that will be submitted from L&I that goes from L&I to the police department and it requires at the bottom that the police officer put their badge number on that letter as receipt of the notice that we have acted upon a premises.
Well, I wouldn't ask for this as a part of any regulations that you're going to promulgate, but I would ask that as a part of maybe your own internal policies to the extent that you issue cease-operations orders whether for this particular bill or any other bill, I would certainly appreciate it and many of the District Councilmembers I'm sure, if not others, would appreciate getting a direct copy of the cease-operations order so that we would have it and so when there are these instances when people are still engaged in the activity, we call on the police who say in many instances, "I don't know anything about that," I'd at least be able 22 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 to fax it to the district and be able to get enforcement. It would be good to have a copy of a cease-op when it is issued. You don't do that many, I assume.
Councilman Rizzo. Before that, I want to say that Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown has joined us and Councilman Clarke. Thank you, Councilman Nutter. Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To L&I, I just had a conversation and I want to make sure we clarify something. I recall in our last hearing, L&I, I can't recollect who, I think it was L&I, pointed out that an issue in the Northeast involving --
Wow. There was a 23 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 need to change the way that they were licensed and that would give you more the ability to better enforce the teenage problem at that particular facility. Are we now on track that they will be licensed in a way or be required to license in a way that gives you the enforcement that you hadn't had in the past? From what I remember was that there was a problem the way it was licensed and it prohibited the enforcement at that particular facility and we needed to change the way it is presently licensed to give the police and also give L&I the ability to better enforce.
I can only speak as to what we have in the provisions of our nightclub operator's license. If the facility, as you speak of, if they were to obtain a nightclub operator's license or would be required to obtain a nightclub operator's license, we would enforce the provisions we have under this nightclub operator's license on that facility.
Do you recollect the police pointing out the fact that there were limitations based on the way that it was 24 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 licensed, that they could not and I believe that motivated to us to make some adjustments to this legislation.
I believe the limitations were placed on the liquor license and our ability to enforce the liquor, the LCB requirements. And we have a legal opinion that indicates that we can't do that. We can take action against the establishment, but we can't enforce laws that is out of our jurisdiction to enforce. It's not under our jurisdiction to enforce the Liquor Control Board laws, but if we were made aware by the Liquor Control Board that their laws have been violated as a condition to the retention to our license, we can act upon our license.
Excuse me, Councilman. I have to agree with the Councilman. I don't believe any liquor was brought up into this conversation.
No, dance hall license. 25 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
It's a nuisance establishment within my district. It's a skating rink.
And we have nothing but problems after problems with the neighbors in that area. Now, what we're asking, if they apply for a dance hall license, would it be more --
(Continuing) enforcement than it would be as a skating rink?
Under the provisions -- a skating rink generally is a general business license, a general business. Under this license, if got a nightclub operator's license under the provisions of this ordinance there's some restrictions in here that deals with --
The dance hall license basically is not going to be -- 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
This establishment is applying for a dance hall license.
I understand that, but under Section 9703 of the Philadelphia Code this license will replace that license so the terminology will change from dance hall to nightclub operation.
Just give me the bottom line. What will that do by changing that?
The bottom line is there are more enforcement teeth in this bill 15 that L&I can directly enforce certain provisions that we weren't able to enforce before under this bill.
There are more teeth in this bill and it replaces what we currently have in place under 9703 which dealt with dance halls.
How often do we 27 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 inspect?
We will inspect for any complaints that would come. We're mostly complaint-generated so if you were to issue a complaint, we would go out immediately and inspect for that. We would do subsequent inspections for renewal of the licenses. We can inspect at any time. If there are complaints that would come in, we would inspect based on that complaint. I know that's somewhat of a vague answer, but we can inspect at any time for anything.
Does that -- that particular facility that we're discussing right now, it has -- it's a skating rink. Will they be required by this legislation to switch from their present licensing -- is there any way they can avoid getting this dance hall license and avoid the more stringent enforcement?
No, because this is tied directly into the building code requirements as well. And under the building code 28 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 requirements for a certificate of occupancy, if their occupancy classification was classified as a certain use group -- just to try to simply it, but if they were classified as a certain use group, if they changed that use group classification, then that means that they would have to come back into L&I and reapply for another certificate of occupancy for new use which means that they would have submit plans, they would have to go through the whole plan review process. So no, if an inspector were to go out and saw that they were doing something that was -- say ,for instance, they're a skating rink and the skating rink is not an A-2 use group classification which is what we classify nightclubs as, but inspector were to be there and saw that they were meeting the definition or whatever they were doing, they doing it under the definition of a nightclub --
Now, say they want to have rock concerts there, then they have 29 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 to apply for dance hall, new terminology nightclub?
They would fall under the new terminology, which means that they would need a certificate of occupancy to do that.
But they can stay a skating rink forever if they want.
I think colleague Councilwoman Krajewski is confused. This nightclub was associated, especial with us people over 25, with drinking and things.
So you're going to be calling these places nightclubs and technically there's no drinking going on. Like if Wow applied for this new thing, they would consider it a nightclub but without drinking.
It's nightclub, but the 30 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 definition for a nightclub is neutral to alcoholic beverages. It doesn't say anything about alcoholic beverages under the definition. It only basically says they have to meet requirements of the building code for an A2, assembly use group occupancy, so it's neutral to alcoholic beverages.
Is that an over-the-counter application for someone new just coming in?
If they have to change zoning, they got to go through zoning.
Right. And the same thing with this. If they were to use group classification, they would have to still go through zoning process as well to get the certificate of occupancy.
Okay. 31 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
This is my final question because I want to feel confident that I understand this issue totally. Right now if this organization, this particular club, has teen dances and no problem develops, they could skirt upgrading to the nightclub unless there's a -- what's going to force them into L&I to change from what they presently have to teen dance?
If they have teen dances, then that's a different category and that falls under this -- if there's more than 50 people there, then it falls under this nightclub definition and they would need a certificate of occupancy for that.
But my point being, what's going to motivate that proprietor to come to L&I to do that, his first violation?
If we -- 32 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
Why can't we go to these folks if we know they're having teen dances and let them know that they're not in compliance?
I believe it was discussed last time when Dominic Verdi was here. It's already being handled, but I will personally check with Dominic to make sure that happens, Councilman.
I mean, we shouldn't have to wait until there's a problem to make sure they understand the rules.
I think there needs to be a little clarification here. And you two correct me if I'm not wrong. This group, this particular establishment was trying to get a dance hall license which you're going to call now a nightclub license, correct? The reason they have it is the 33 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 neighbors stopped it because they thought through the Councilwoman's good graces, they thought that would be the thing to do. Now, if I remember correctly, Mr. Verdi said last time and I think Otis just said this, Mr. Haigler, it's probably better if get this dance hall now we will call this a --
Only if doing something different than roller-skating.
Right. But at this point, because there were no provisions in the previous dance hall license for certificate of occupancy --
Now there is. They would have to go through the whole zoning as well as certificate of occupancy process in order to get this. And with the zoning process, that's 34 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 where the community opposition could come in to pretty much stop that.
Well, the word "nightclub" wasn't injected into our conversation last time; it was dance hall. To the constituents and the public, there is a difference between dance hall and nightclub.
I understand that. Nightclubs, as the one Councilman has mentioned, that nightclubs primarily you think of drinking, you think of an atmosphere such as that.
But under this provision, we more or less made that liquor part of it neutral --
I've never been to a nightclub. Councilman Rizzo told me about it. (Laughter.)
(Continuing) to encompass a large occupancy base, including that it would include any occupancy where you have 50 or more people. 35 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
Are we paving the way -- by changing this from a dance hall to a nightclub license, are we paving a way for them to introduce alcohol to this location?
What if it did? Would we be paving the way to create an alcoholic environment?
No, sir, not under the definitions of this bill because the bill doesn't mention anything about liquor or serving liquor. It has nothing to do with that. That's purely under the purview of the LCB, the State.
But could they since they will have a nightclub license, if they apply to the LCB --
Councilman, in your packet here, not to interrupt you, but I will, there's a letter from the City Solicitor that explains that says. What it says is we 36 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 can't regulate anything to do with liquor. Once we start doing that, the LCB takes away the rest of the authority they have. That is the LCB's germane and they don't want us involved in that, and probably rightfully so.
I think for the record my point being, are creating an easier application process to the liquor control board --
(Continuing) to introduce a license? In other words, if I'm the proprietor and I go the LCB and I say, "Look, I have a nightclub license., why can't I have a liquor license?"
They know the difference, right? This is a liquor neutral nightclub license.
And again, they can introduce whatever, but if they follow the definition of what we have in our ordinance, our ordinance speaks nothing of drinking being on the establishment.
So why do we have 37 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 to even use the word nightclub? Why can't we come up with a word --
Because the A-2 definition under the building code, we link this closely with what we currently are enforcing under the building code. And if you look under the definition for A-2 occupancy, it specifically relates to nightclubs.
If you said to the majority of the residents of this city "nightclub," the first thing that would pop into their mind is an establishment that serves alcoholic beverage that runs until 2 o'clock in the morning or maybe even later, who knows. Rather than start a fire, fanning a fire, why do we necessarily have to use the word "nightclub"? Can't there be an adjustment to exactly what it is so there's no confusion and we don't start panic in the communities when these people start applying for these licenses? The average folk, when you say "nightclub," guess what? If you were going to open one next to my house, I'd be very concerned or my neighborhood. 38 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102
I think the concern is not so much the name of the establishment, but the type of activity that takes place in that establishment. What we have found with the definition under an A-2 assembly use, you have a large number of people congregating in an establishment for a period of time and alcoholic beverage may or may not be served there. Some of that can cause concern for fire protection purposes. You have low lighting. You have fire protection equipment that needs to be installed on the premises. By linking the definition closely to what we have in the building code, we can address all of those concerns. We can check for the fire protection system. We can check for all of the other requirements to make sure that the building is safe for the occupants who are there during that time period.
I understand that it's simpler to enforce something that's already on the books, but I hope that you just get my message that you have created a situation that could unnecessarily cause concern to the community. I know that in many communities if 39 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000102 word got out that someone was applying for a nightclub license, our phones would be ringing off the hook to find out what is going on. So I'll just transfer them to you and you can explain.
All right, thank you. Any other questions for these? Councilman Clarke? (No questions.)
Seeing no 14 further questions, that will be it for Bill 15 000278, and as I know, Bill 000102 is going to be held at the sponsor's request, okay? 000102 is going to be held. Councilman Kenney called and said he wants to hold 000102, so this will be just be 000278. Anyone else want to testify on 000278? You want to give us a list of your favorite nightclubs, Mr. Haigler?
No, sir. But I would just like to add to my testimony that we would 40 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000540 request that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of Council.
The next bill we will do will be 000540. Mr. Allen, would you please read that bill?
Bill No. 000540, an ordinance amending 9-702 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Carnivals," by revising the provisions governing the issuance of licenses to hold or conduct a carnival, in particular providing that such licenses shall be issued only for temporary periods and only once per year per location; providing that the licenses shall be issued only if the carnival is conducted to the benefit and on the property of a bona fide religious, educational or charitable institution, society or organization; providing for the notification of the District Councilperson when an application for a carnival license has been received; and conferring standing on certain persons to appeal the issuance of the license and 41 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000540 in related legal matters; all under certain terms and conditions.
Mr. Haigler, before we start, let me just say, this is my bill 6 and let me just sum it all up for why we're doing this. We're not trying to take any money-making kind of operation away from any of the churches, Boys Club, anybody that does any good. What we're trying to do here is just regulate these people that come from out of town and pitch their tents here for weeks at a time and disrupt the quality of life in our neighborhoods. We had a certain incident this summer that brought my office to write this bill. So this isn't a shot at any boys clubs or girls clubs or girl scouts, so save the calls; don't call. We'll be able to go to your carnival, we'll spend the money, but we're not going to let people come here and change the quality of life in some of these residential areas just because somebody happens to own a piece of property and they can rent it out as much as they want. Hopefully, this will change that. Thank you, Mr. Haigler.
Good day, Councilman 42 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000540 Mariano and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., legislative regulatory affairs manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I am here to provide testimony on Bill 000540, which, if enacted, will amend Section 9-702 of the Philadelphia Code relating to the operation of carnivals in the City of Philadelphia. As amended, the provisions of this section will only apply to temporary carnivals as sponsored by a bona fide religious, educational, charitable institution or organization and the event must take place on the sponsor's premises. The Department of Licenses and Inspections, therefore, offers no objections to the proposed bill. Thank you. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have at this time.
Any questions from anyone on the committee? (No questions.)
Seeing none, anyone not on the committee? Councilman Nutter in the building? He might want to send questions up. If not, 43 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000540 okay, that's it for this one. Pennsport Civic, where is Pennsport Civic? Didn't I see -- Mr. Hennon, step up to the microphone, you're being shy. (Witness comes forward.)
First time I ever heard you to be you to be shy, Mr. Henon. State your name for the record, spell it, and your organization.
My name is Robert Henon, H-E-N-O-N. And good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Again, my name is Robert Henon and I'm here to testify today on behalf of John J. Dougherty, president of the Pennsport Civic Association in support of Bill 17 000540 that will place regulations on carnivals. I believe this regulation is strong for several reasons: First, it allows churches and benevolent organizations to host carnivals. I think many of us agree that parking lots across this great city should not become Dorney Park. We certainly also should agree that carnivals should benefit the community in which they are being conducted. Bill 000540 achieves this goal 44 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000540 through a requiring that receipts for carnivals benefit bona fide religious, educational, or charitable institutions. Second, I think we can agree that carnivals should not be allowed if they do not meet the City's health and safety standards and if they do not keep up to date on their payment of taxes. This legislation requires that such payment and standards be met prior to opening a carnival. Third, this legislation provides for community interaction in support of carnivals by requiring that the District Councilperson be notified when a permit is applied for and by granting individuals agreed by issuing of the license standing and in any legal matter pertaining to the issuance of a permit. Finally, I believe that as contained in the media reports last summer, during a carnival on Delaware Avenue confrontations, two lawsuits, L&I citations, and was closed for several various reasons. Also, carnivals in the past have led to noise excessive trash, and crimes such as vandalism and stabbings. I 45 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 believe this tightness of the regulations is very necessary. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hennon. Anyone on the committee have any questions for Mr. Hennon? Any other Councilmembers? (No questions.)
That's it. We'll go to the next bill. Mr. Allen, we're going to do 000545?
Bill No. 000545, an ordinance amending 6-301 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Food Establishments," by amending the license fee for family day care homes and certain group child care facilities, all under certain terms and conditions. (Witnesses come forward.)
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. A brief summary statement, opening statement, if I could. This 46 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 bill addresses what we believe to be a workforce issue for working parents who are looking for affordable and reliable child care setting, often preferred by many parents, group day care and family day care. So this bill speaks to the cost of doing business in Philadelphia and in effect is designed to reduce the cost of doing business in Philadelphia in the child care industry for the two groups initially mentioned, group child care and family child care. And the record should show that this is a part of an overall strategy to encourage unregulated providers to come into compliance. So the bottom line as I see it is to reduce the fees for potential child care providers who desire to enter into this field. Thank you.
Good morning. I am Harriet Dichter, Director of Children's Policy for the City. Estelle Richman is unable to be with us today, but I do have a brief statement from her before my testimony if I could read it into the record. 47 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545
I intended to ask where she is today. I mean, she usually goes to exotic ports.
Here's Estelle's statement: "I'm pleased to offer my support for Council Bill 000545 which will eliminate the food service and preparation license fee for family day-care homes and significantly reduce this fee for group child care facilities. "This legislation is important because it addresses the City's need for a more adequate supply of safe regulated child care settings for children while their parents are at work. As more and more parents are working, it is critical that they have adequate child care choices that go beyond the unlicensed, unmonitored environments in which large numbers of very young children in our city are currently spending their days. 48 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 This bill will help improve parent access to safer city and state regulated child care by reducing fees for City child care licensing as an incentive to bring unregulated providers into compliance with regulations and to encourage those already in the system to continue to operate legal and above-board programs. It protects the City's strong interest in child health and safe because only fees are eliminated or reduced. Health and safety inspections will remain unchanged. I urge Council's support for his valuable bill." And if I could, I also have a statement of mine to read, if you don't mind.
Thank you again for giving me an opportunity to testify in favor in favor of this bill. This bill will amend the food service license to eliminate the fees for the smallest category of child care settings, family child homes serving six or fewer children and establishes a new category of licenses for group day-care homes which serve 12 or fewer children. 49 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 Establishment of a group day-care home license improves the ability of the Departments of Health and Licenses and Inspections to monitor these programs while having a practical effect of lower fees for these micro-enterprises by $125. The inspections that currently are conducted to meet licensure standards will continue to be done to ensure the proper and safe service and storage of food and the protection of children. This seemingly modest piece of legislation represents an important beginning step to address complex problem parents in community face in trying to find safe accessible settings for the care of their children while they are at work. Numerous studies of the barriers to success for families transitioning off of cash assistance have identified child care gaps as one of the most serious problems faced by parents new to the workforce. Preliminary data about the choices these parents are making reveals that a very high percentage are not making their way to regulated child care settings either center or 50 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 home based, but instead their children are ending up spending their days in unregulated, unmonitored setting. Families which must rely on unregulated care miss out on a whole range of services available to children in regulated settings. This includes full participation in the child and adult food program, which is a version of the school lunch program available to kids in child care and after school programs, educational initiatives and scholarships for child care teachers and providers to return to school and improve their understanding of child development, and third, funds for facility and program improvements including the City's very own health and safety program for child care and numerous private and state-funded child care quality initiatives. While parents cite a variety of reasons for the use of unregulated care, one significant factor that we can't overlook in Philadelphia is our low supply of regulated family and group child care relative to the size of our city. We know that our numbers of family 51 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 and group providers are approximately the same as Boston, a much smaller city, and about half of the number of those programs serving Baltimore also smaller in size. While fees are just one of the costs associate with providing this care, we know from efforts such as the Commerce Department's pilot effort to reduce start-up fees for new child care providers that lower fees combined with technical assistance and support can influence a new provider's decision to enter and to continue to operate in a regulated environment. So building the supply of regulated family and group day-care by reducing the City barriers and the fees in this instance to operation makes good sense to us. It will benefit our parents because they will have more and better choices for our children. It will benefit our children because they will have far more direct and immediate access to nutritional programs offered in safe inspected settings and from better trained and qualified care givers. And finally, it will benefit our neighborhoods by giving them more vitally needed child care 52 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 services provided closer to home and by neighbors for their neighbors. So I urge the committee to give the bill your full support as an important first step for the City to be taking to improve access to quality child care, particularly for the city's youngest children. Thank you.
Good morning, Councilman Mariano and members of the Committee of Licenses and Inspections. I'm John Domzalski, Executive Deputy and Chief of Staff for the Department of Public Health, and I'm here to convey the department's support for Council Bill 17 000545. Essentially, this bill eliminates the fee for family child care homes and establishes a new license category for group day-care which will reduce the fee for that license category from $175 to $50, and for the first time will establish a mechanism to identify and track the group day-care facilities. The Department of Public Health 53 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 Office of Food Protection has a responsibility for conducting inspections for child care facilities that have this license. We believe these inspections are vital for the safety of the children and for the general health protection. The facilities are inspected for a wide range of environmental hazards related to the proper and safe preparation and service of food. They serve an important preventive function by educating child care providers about proper food storage, sanitation and preparation methods, and by requiring providers to remedy any improper practices or active hazards to children or risk the lose a license. The proposed legislation will have no 17 effect on these inspections. These inspections will continue to be conducted as they always have been on an annual basis and as a requirement for the issuance of a license. However, the department recognizes the importance of reducing barriers to small home-based child care programs to come into the regulated system and to remain regulated. We're in complete agreement with the 54 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 purpose of this bill to reduce these to develop a City system to identify group day-care facilities. We recognize that there's an important public health interest in having a strong supply of regulated child care facilities that are available to parents near where they work and live. With adequate access to regulated care, parents can be assured that providers will have child abuse criminal clearances, their children can access important nutrition programs such as the child and adult food program, and they can be secure in the knowledge that the facilities will receive their regular safety inspections that the Department of Public Health conducts. The department urges the support of Council for this important change in the bill.
Good day, Councilman Mariano and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Jr., Legislative Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. 55 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 Today, I am here to provide testimony on Bill No. 000545, which if enacted, will amend Section 6-301 of the Philadelphia Code by regulating the requirements for group child care facilities by specifically licensing such facilities for food preparation and serving. Currently, the City of Philadelphia does not have a specific licensing mechanism to track the location of where group child care facilities are located within the City of Philadelphia. The license presently issued for food preparation and serving within this type of occupancy is the same license that we issue to restaurant operators with less than 50 persons seating capacity. By developing this license specifically for group child care facilities, the department will be able to better track the location of these facilities for inspectional and statistical purposes. The department has worked closely with Councilwoman Reynolds Brown, the Health Department and the Managing Director's Office of Child policy in drafting this ordinance and respectfully requests that the committee 56 11/15/00 - LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - BILL 000545 favorably report this bill out of committee and that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at the next session of Council. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Haigler. Mr. Haigler, a quick question I have to anyone here. The State still has their day-care regulations, this doesn't -- all these clandestine day-care things aren't going to popping up?