COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, October 8, 2003 10:30 a.m. - - - BILL NO. 030557 - An Ordinance amending Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code by amending Section 9-605 (Towing) - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center Plaza, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 030557 Otis Haigler, L & I--------------------------- Lance Haver, Director, Mayor's Office on Comsumer Affairs---------------------------- Joseph Pultrone, Citizen---------------------- 13 - - - 3 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03
The Committee on L & I is called to order. This is the Public Hearing for the Committee on Licenses and Inspections. Mr. Allen, do you want to read the first bill.
Bill No. 030557, an Ordinance 8 amending Title of the Philadelphia Code by 9 amending Section 9-605 to establish specific limits to the amounts that may be charged for towing illegally parked vehicles from parking lots, private property, and driveways, and to make certain technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.
I neglected to say, I have Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Nutter, Councilwoman Blackwell, Councilman Clarke, and Councilwoman Brown. I saved the best for last. Testimony. Otis Haigler, Licensess & Inspections.
Good day, Councilman Mariano and members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler, Junior, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses & Inspections. 4 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 Today I am here to provide testimony on Bill No. 030557, which, if enacted, will amend Section 9-605 of the Philadelphia Code to establish limits on the fees and charges that may be assessed by towing operators for the towing of illegally parked vehicles. The department offers no objections to the passage of Bill No. 030557 in the interest of consumer protection and believes that this bill will provide uniformity for all persons and businesses --
Excuse me. If everybody wants to talk, could you go outside. This is just as important as everything else. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Haigler.
The department offers no 17 objections to the passage of Bill No. 030557 in the interest of consumer protection and believes that this bill will provide uniformity for all persons and businesses that engage in the activity of towing illegally parked vehicles. The intent of Bill 030557 is to set limits on the fees towing operators may charge for the towing of illegally parked vehicles. This will address an area of public concern that is not 5 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 covered under the current provisions of Section 3 9-605. The current provisions of Section 9-605 apply only to the fees charged to tow damaged or disabled vehicles. It does not apply to the towing of illegally parked vehicles. Through the enactment of this amendment to Section 9-605, a loophole that currently exists with enforcement will be closed and the department will have the legal authority to take appropriate action against persons found to be in violation of this section of the Philadelphia Code as amended. Thank you for the opportunity to provide the department's testimony on Bill 030557. I will be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you, Mr. Haigler. Any questions from Mr. Haigler from the committee? Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Haigler, currently is there a set fee for a situation where the owner of the vehicle comes 6 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 on the scene as the vehicle is about to be towed? Let's give you a for instance. I happened to be at a location, and an individual had parked their car at a CVS on Fairmount Avenue. And after the o'clock closing 7 of the CVS, the tow trucked showed up like three 8 minutes later, pulled the guy's car up, started the 9 process of pulling the guy's car up. 10 The guy ran out of the restaurant and stopped and said, "It is my vehicle. You know, I am here," the whole nine yards. And the individual said, "Well, if you give me $90, I will drop your vehicle and you can go on your way." And the guy ran down the street to the ATM machine, came back with the $90, and the guy released his vehicle and he drove off of the lot. Is there a specific fee for interrupted towing or is it just arbitrarily determined on the site?
No, there is no set fee. That's the purpose of this bill, to deal with fees for illegally parked vehicles. There are fees that are currently established for disabled vehicles, vehicles that are 7 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 involved in accidents that are removed from the highway. But there are no set fees at this present time. And that's what this bill will do, set fees for cars such as you described, that are parked either illegally or parked in an area that is posted to indicate that no parking is allowed. This will allow those fees to be set for those types of vehicles that are towed.
Councilwoman Krajewski is here, too. She is on the committee, for the record. Sorry.
So in that particular case that I have from the city, it is basically left up to the individual who is requesting the compensation and the individual who has to provide the compensation.
So at this point, with the passage of this bill, the fee will be whatever is listed under the Code.
And, Councilman, I 8 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 would think if the tow truck operator wants to negotiate for a lesser of a fee because it is on the hook but it is not out, that's pretty much up to him. Because then he doesn't have to store it. Like say if he he wanted 90 bucks for that, I don't think we really have anything to do with that. Right?
Any other question from the committee? Any other Councilpeople? Seeing none. Mr. Haver.
My name is Lance Haver. I am the newly appointed Director of the Mayor's Office of Consumer Affairs. And I will be brief, because this bill is needed. I am here to support the proposed amendments to Bill No. 030557. While the Office of Consumer Affairs is not old enough to have developed any statistically significant data, we are well aware of the problems consumers face. Illegal towing and the outrageous prices consumers are 9 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 forced to pay to ransom their cars from the towing pirates are a major problem. The amendments to the bill are needed. And on behalf of consumers, I want to thank Councilman Mariano and Councilman Clarke for recommending these changes. I would be happy to answer any questions, but I think it is very straight-forward.
There is an issue that I would like to let you be aware of, something that really troubles me that I have seen recently. I have seen tow trucks laying in wait for a person to break the law. I witnessed personally a situation where a tow truck was waiting in the back of a parking lot for a person to park in a restricted area next to a fast-food restaurant, a take-out restaurant. As soon as the person went into the restaurant, the tow truck raced to the back of the vehicle to block it in. The person came out of the restaurant -- and I witnessed this personally -- came out of the restaurant and was told that the car was being towed away. It was not even hooked up yet 10 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 to the tow truck. And the tow truck said that he was charged, you know, one of the famous name people because it was on private property, that he was taking the vehicle away. And that poor person was standing there begging this tow truck operator to not do that. And I just hope that something, maybe in your new capacity, to communicate to these people. I mean, this is kind of like becoming a business. The tow truck sits in the back of the parking lot. Obviously the person is doing wrong; they are parking on private property across the street from the take-out place. They come out of the take-out place, their car is gone. They take that vehicle. Then the tow truck comes back, waits for another poor person, or stupid person. So, it is a cycle. All night. I went into the restaurant and I asked the person that worked in the restaurant. And they told me that tow truck takes one after another, one after another. So something really needs to be done. I know people shouldn't park on private 11 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 property, even for two minutes, to go in and pick up something. But if they get back to the car, the car doesn't even have a ticket on it, it is a vehicle that was just parked in an area that's posted serviced by XYZ Towing -- I hope there is not an XYZ Towing -- and it has just become a cash register. That obviously needs to be addressed here.
That's sot of a variation on speed trap, isn't it, Councilman?
You have to stop eating at Popeye's, that's what it is.
Councilman, I understand what you are saying. I think that's similar to what Councilman Clarke was saying. I will tell you that we have reports of people who are paid money to sit in parking lots and call the tow truck companies to come and pick up a car when they see someone, for instance, in a supermarket lot, someone goes into the supermarket, actually shops and, then runs across the street either to a state store or drugstore and pick 12 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 something else up. As soon as the street folks see the person crossing the street, they are on the phone to the tow truck company. And then the tow truck driver comes, gives them some money, and then they pick the car up. We have had those reports. We have not been able to substantiate them. We are a little too new to do that. But certainly what you are talking about would be some form of an appeal. We are not there yet. We hope to have the data for you so, when we say this is happening, we can prove this is happening. But right now I can say with a surety we need this amendment.
One of the problematic areas is SEPTA. SEPTA hires a towing company to enforce the lot. The lot was a lot right off of City Line Avenue, where there is two fast-food restaurants. People park in the SEPTA lot. And that particular tow truck operator scoops those cars up one after another, and even when the person comes back. And that is really -- I think that's evil, to do that. 13 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03
Thank you, Councilman. Any other questions for Mr. Haver? Seeing none. Any other witnesses?
I would like to thank the ladies and gentlemen of City Council for having me here today to speak. I am lobbying on behalf of the towing industry. My name is Joseph Pultrone. And I would like to tell you a few things about the other side of the coin. And I absolutely agree with some of the other witnesses; however, with both sides of the coin being -- telling the whole story on this issue. I may as well start with something that this other gentleman addressed and a personal issue involved with another township where the towing prices have been capped. My automobile was parked in a service repair facility in Havertown, where towing prices have been capped. And they are not able to get a 14 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 towing operator to tow illegally parked vehicles off of this. My vehicle was there for repairs. The gentleman that owns the place is a friend of mine. He charges me very reasonable prices. There happens to be a bar across the street from this gentleman's establishment. Someone came out of the bar and hit my vehicle and took off. I don't want to sue my friend, but I have damage to my vehicle. And I am between a rock and a hard place. That's my own personal issue with this. There is also other issues involved, that I am also in the towing business. My job in the towing business is not to tow vehicles; I was a salesman. I didn't have to go out and solicit business. I had people contact me requiring our services. People such as dialysis patients, who were blocked in their driveway not able to go out and receive treatment; U.S. attorneys who couldn't go to court to prosecute criminals on South Sixth Street, Councilman. School teachers. I also had the pleasure of servicing a Rite Aid pharmacy on 9th and Catharine, right off of 15 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 the Italian market. Everyone thinks it is free parking for the Italian market. There is an elderly couple that lives near by that can't walk very well, they do need to drive to pick up their medication. Subsequently I was contacted by this couple to put a sign up in their parking lot. And they thanked me for servicing the Rite Aid, because they couldn't get there to pick up their medication and had gone a day or two without it. Employees could not get in there. In addition, there is another Rite Aid off of South Street. There is liability issues concerned with people coming back from drinking on South Street, smashing into cars, broken bottles, et cetera, and et cetera. The whole nature of this bill, I agree maybe there should be some capping on some prices. But, on the other hand, no one is capping the insurance industry on what they can charge an illegal -- charge a towing company for charging illegally parked cars. And ultimately it can put a necessary business out of business, which we hope that won't 16 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 happen because the city would, basically, shut down. School teachers wouldn't be able to get to work. And there are exceptions. And there are good towing operators out there that don't do these pirate-type acts, as this other gentleman had stated. So on behalf of the towing industry, I am against any amendment at this point unless it also addresses the other issues of insurance rates that we're charged by insurance companies. And I would like to thank Council for having me.
Thank you, Mr. Pultrone. Councilman Rizzo has a question. We have nothing to do with insurance rates. In fact, Councilman Clarke and I are co-Chairmen of the Mayor's Task Force on Automotive Insurance, which resulted in a decrease of 20 percent in some cases. 21 But that doesn't help you with your 22 commercial thing. So let Councilman Rizzo ask you 23 the question. 24
Mr. Pultrone, good 25 morning. You heard what I said earlier? 17 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03
What do you think of a tow truck operator that does what I described?
Well, it is unfortunate, but laws are going to pertain to everyone. And the gentleman that -- what do I personally think of the tow truck operator? There should be time limits posted on lots like that. Maybe -- this kind of Council bill really needs to be well thought out. And maybe they should put time limits that anyone can park there. Someone just running into a fast-food establishment is different than someone running into a bar and then smashing a vehicle in which that private property owner could possibly be held liable for.
Mr. Pultrone, the car is not yet hooked up to the tow truck. The person comes back to their vehicle, realizes that they parked illegally. Don't you think --
I understood exactly. And I am going to answer that, because I did take notes when you asked the other question. 18 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 I think the driver of the tow truck maybe should be arrested for grand theft auto. There should be criminal charges, not civil legislation.
Thank you Councilman. Thank you, Mr. Pultrone. Unfortunately, if I could just say this, we have a situation here in this city where this has probably gotten out of control. And we could sit here all day, and Councilman Rizzo can come up with scenarios because he is the scenario master, he comes up with great scenarios. And they are serious scenarios. But if you owned a parking lot somewhere, right, Councilman, and people are parking in it, you have certain rights because you own that parking lot. What we are trying to do with this bill 22 is, we are not worried about the parking lots; we are worried about the people that get towed by those unscrupulous tow truck drivers or tow truck driver owners. And most of them aren't unscrupulous, just 19 BILL NO. 030557 - 10/8/03 a few that make it bad. But I am going to do an amendment to this that makes it a little clearer in a second here. Then the law is clearer. This is a bill that L & I wanted. We met with L & I for a while. One of the deputy commissioners came up with a lot of these ideas, and that's why we are going to run with it. At this time I would like to describe the amendment to Bill 030557 that has been circulated. The amendment adds the definition of Towing Companies and Towing to Section 9-605 and allows for $150 maximum fee for towing from a private lot and $25 per day, up to $175. Other fees, such as winching fees, are prohibited. The most any consumer will be expected to pay in the future is $325. This is a far cry from today, where consumers have told the department they have been charged over $200 for a tow, storage fees, and hundreds of dollars in other fees. I am also hopeful that, with these changes, the department will enforce these provisions in the strongest possible manner. 20 We will now go into the public meeting. (Public Hearing adjourned.) - - - 21 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING of the COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Wednesday, October 8, 2003 - - - Public Meeting conducted by the Committee on Licenses and Inspections, held in Room 696, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILL NO. 030557 - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair. COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI - - - 22 PUBLIC MEETING
The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for a motion to the amendment to Bill No. 030557. I just closed the Public Hearing; now we are in a Public Meeting.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to ask for a motion for the amendment on Bill No. 030557. (Duly seconded.)
The amendment has been made and seconded. All those in favor of the amendment. Opposed? Not seeing any, the amendment passes. I want to make a motion to bring Bill 16 030557 as amended out of committee and suspend the Rules so it can be read at the next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It has been made an seconded. All those in favor? Those opposed? Seeing none, it passes as amended. And that is the end of the public meeting. Thank you. Thank you very much. 23 PUBLIC MEETING (Public Meeting adjourned at 10:50 a.m.) - - - 24 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, October 8, 2003, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS ________________________________ DEBRA A. WHITEHEAD