civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 29, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 29, 20244h 53m

they have been promoted to panelists

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yes all right i know we can see you now too all right yeah i'm i'm currently in the car on the

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way to my daughter's uh dance recital rehearsal so i apologize that i'm not at home um but that's

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where i am i'm not driving you're not driving okay that's that's an important part okay um

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so um mr hartnett there's a lot that's been testified to what are the areas that you want

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to focus on in your testimony um so i did submit a statement and just to be cognizant of time i can

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be as brief as you would like um excuse me there excuse me apologies gentlemen um i didn't i don't

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believe mr hartnett was sworn in oh i thought i was i'm sorry i thought i did but okay we'll do it

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again do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth yes sir

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Proceed.

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Mr. Hartman, let me go through some of your statements then,

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because since you're in the car, you may not be able to review it in front of you.

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I got a little piece of paper.

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Okay. Oh, okay.

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Can you – how many of the community meetings were you present at?

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I believe I was present at all but one due to an illness of my children.

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and um with all the times that you spent um with other neighbors and and with the applicants and

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with uh the elected officials um what theme did emerge from all of those meetings and in your

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mind um i i just feel that there was a lack of trust that has been established um there's not

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been a lot of transparency um any any kind of questions that we have tried to um participate

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in has been met with um either through the filter of of a lawyer or um you know it's met with with

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a lot of opposition um and it it's been very frustrating especially because when we do get

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some clarity on something things change um and it's just it doesn't feel very secure um it doesn't

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feel as though um the community is really and this is my experience that the community has

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has been well received by the applicant like i just feel like it should be the opposite i feel

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been well received by the applicant. I just feel like it should be the opposite. I feel like

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like the

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we should be able to receive them and bring them in. And it just, that relationship has been so

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out

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contentious. And is the relationship between the community and the applicant something that's

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important to you looking at this facility? Yeah. I mean, especially for myself, you know,

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I'm right there. I would need to feel secure in knowing that my concerns are listened to,

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that I'm not negated in what my experiences are. And I don't have that feeling. I don't

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have that feeling of rapport. I don't have that feeling of trust. It makes me fearful,

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to be frank it makes me fearful about what what could happen so you went to a lot of meetings

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with these with the development team for this project right yeah i i was at the original

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january meeting um i think i did miss one i went to the meeting with squilla i went to um

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another one of the rco meetings um i feel like there was another one i can't put my finger on

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it at the moment um but i i've tried to be be involved and be you know an active member in this

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just just to even get answers and and and feel like there's some transparency about what's going

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on so you know the um the the members of the zoning board haven't been at these meetings um

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it'll be important for them to understand your experience so how would you describe the level

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of candor and openness

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to the concerns of the community

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by the members of the development team

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in all the meetings that you had?

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It's been very contentious.

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It feels like, you know,

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for example,

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a question that we are near neighbors

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asking about this.

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um having having a reply from emails that that's you know seems seems very aggressive um i i i wish

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there was a way that i could you know quote if i had thought about it to write it down um

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to quote what was said but it just doesn't seem like the the concerns of the community has been

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It doesn't feel like the concerns of the community have really been addressed.

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So for you personally and for your family, what kind of rapport, relationship, response are you looking for when something like this facility opens up next door to you?

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I mean, accessibility to the response to any concerns.

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um and i don't just just that we can participate at all in in what is happening i i just don't

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feel like there's any and i don't want to put it this way i don't feel like there's any legal

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recourse for us i don't feel like there's any um any way to to connect what our experiences is

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to the people that are supposedly the experts that are trying to run this.

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If you had gotten a different response from these real estate people

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who are behind the 3R Ventures or from the people on the treatment team,

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if you had gotten a different response than you did,

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would you have a different feeling about this facility?

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Would you be for it?

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and i can't say with certainty that i would be for it but i would be far more open um you know

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it's and it really okay for me i will say personally the thing that really drives me

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is my fear is the impact the negative impact that this is going to have on a community

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and really truly ultimately the people that are trying to get care at this facility that

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the really, really vulnerable, and people trying to form their new identities, find their new

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lives. They are so vulnerable, and they are putting trust into these people. I have not

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felt that trust at all. I have not established any form of trust. I am fearful that there will

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be more harm done to the people that are seeking care, and that is really what drives me of trying

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to stand up and speak out against this because it's i am not against treatment i i just i cannot

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get behind the applicants just time after time feels like they're doing the bare minimum

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just time after time feels like they're doing the bare minimum that is not fair it's just not fair

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did you feel at any point that they respected you or your neighbors and your concerns no

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do you have anything more that you wanted to add i i mean respect to time i don't have anything

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more um i'm willing to to submit the cross if that's appropriate at this time yeah hi mr bovett

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thank you um mr harnett um you you signed chris nevins's petition right yes sir okay um you you

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mentioned earlier or what i kept hearing from your testimony was you if if things were more amicable

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with with between you and or your neighbors and the applicant i'm objecting that you're putting

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words in his mouth and that's not correct but it's the question the question is is that what

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am i correct with that i'm sorry you're gonna have to rephrase that here cut out a little bit

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So it wasn't even an objection. So, so what I was trying to say, it sounded like your testimony was saying if you had a better relationship with the applicant, things may have been better, because there would have been better open lines of communications. Am I correct?

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That's what I stated, yes, sir.

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Yeah. So did did. Do you have that open line of communication with the members of the RCO?

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So in my engagement with the RCO, I had sent a communication to the RCO president and it was received and replied fairly contentiously.

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um and then any attempts that i had made to um connect to people at the meeting i mean

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you were there the meetings were pretty pretty busy um i felt pretty dismissed um i believe at

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the first meeting i was told i was being out of pocket um when i was just trying to express my

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concerns um it just any reaching out for clarity was was met um in a in what i perceived to be a

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pretty hostile man but but but my question is and i think you answered it did you feel that way

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going through dealing with the rco and from what i understand i believe you agree with that statement

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i'm sorry the answer is no his testimony was that he did not feel comfortable with the rco

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yeah that's exactly what i wanted so yes he did not feel comfortable with the rco all right

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i don't think those were his words but we'll stick with them right you weren't comfortable

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with the rco well the rco okay i'm i'm on cross right right so did you also reach out to the

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councilman i had sent an email yes the councilman schooler yes so they were and was that warm and

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fuzzy at all uh that was pretty factual in his response letting us know that he was

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either I forget his response but all right and I thank you for that so if if and and I know this

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is the answer is probably no but I'm not going to assume are you familiar with the development

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process in Philadelphia are you asking me if I'm an expert in the development process

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no i'm asking if you're familiar i would say no okay so it if if if an applicant has to seek

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uh some sort of zoning relief from the zoning board i'm objecting that this calls for speculation

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and it's fact you don't even know my question yet but you're asking for speculation and that's

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No, you don't even know my question yet. Right. Let me ask my question and you can object. Right.

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So the applicant has to make it, has to file an appeal to get zoning relief.

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And when he or she starts that process, she has to go in front of the front of the registered community organization.

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So, nine times out of 10, anytime you see new development going on in the neighborhood, it's going to come before the RCO. Are you familiar with that?

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I'm not. I'm not familiar with the processes. At any point in time, did you feel that that the applicant could have walked away from the RCO and just come directly to you?

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I'm not. I'm not familiar with the processes.

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I'm sorry, I'm not really understanding it, but are you asking if I withdraw?

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It's OK. It's all right. No further questions.

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Just a brief redirect. Mr. Hartnett, from your understanding, could Councilmember Squilla fix any problems that were happening at the facility after it was opened up?

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That's speculation. There is no facility opened up.

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You are proposing a facility. If that facility opens up, would Councilmember Squilla be in charge of fixing the problem?

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does he think councilman squilla could fix the problem once it's opened up yeah you have no idea

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what the what the problems are you have no idea what the future is like so so steve steve steve

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i i i think we can skip that question i i think all right are you done you have any more questions

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for the only the only the points that darwin uh that was trying to make was that there were other

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people at these meetings who could have helped mr hardnett but the point mr chair is that only the

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people who are running this facility can address any problems and either fix them or ignore them

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or or do something in between and that's that's the point i wanted to make okay thank you are you

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done yes all right no more witnesses am i correct no more named witnesses that is correct all right

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questions thank you thank you we appreciate it thank you questions from the board no mr chairman

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ish

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no chair questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson

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not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual

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audience and tell me how many hands are there

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chair we have seven hands up okay first one has been allowed to speak first

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hi could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer

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yes my name is shannon bobin s-h-a-n-a-n b-o-b-o-n do you swear affirm to tell the truth

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the whole truth and nothing but the truth i affirm are you a neighbor i am uh i live at

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535 Mifflin which Google Maps is okay I know where it is yeah thank you are you in favor of the

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project or against it against there's been a lot of comments made relative to it is there anything

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different you can offer uh just that I am on Mifflin Street which is not Moore Street it's

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it's a block over yeah um and the other and I will affirm what one of the other testaments

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testimony already stated was that the parking is atrocious in this area so that even though I

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don't live on Moore Street I often have to park in and around 5th and Moore Street in fact the

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only reason I even know of this project is because around midnight a few nights ago I had to park

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right in front of this facility and I saw the orange sign I took the picture and decided to

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sign on today all right because you know I was parking alone at midnight and even though I don't

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live on Moore Street not within 250 feet I have to park there and I often have guests my young

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nieces in their 20s my nephews and their teens and they also have to park in that area and the

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fact that they would have to park in this area you know 11 12 midnight whenever they get done work

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and walk to my house uh it's just i don't feel safe my neighbors don't feel it would it would

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be safe uh thank you and don't thank you thank you for taking the time to close we appreciate

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Next hand.

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Larry has been allowed to speak.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

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Larry Boone.

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Could you spell your name, please, Mr. Boone?

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Yes. L-A-R-R-Y-B-O-O-N-E.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes, sir.

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Are you a neighbor?

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I live at 531 Ferdinand Street.

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Okay. All right.

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All right.

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Are you in favor or against the project?

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In favor.

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Okay.

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And could you, you've heard a lot of comments relative to the project.

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Could you tell us why?

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Excuse me.

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Can you repeat that question again?

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You said you're in favor of it.

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And I said, there's been a lot of testimony for and against it.

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Could you offer something, a reason why that you're in favor of it?

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Oh, yes. I've been a neighbor, a resident of this neighbor for 53 years.

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Oh, yes.

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I've been a resident of this neighbor for 53 years.

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And my brother lived on that block, the 500th block of Moore Street.

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I have a business at 4th and Wharton.

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And so I'm a member of this community for 53 years.

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And I run a program for the young youth.

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And so, listen, right there what they're talking about, it needs some improvement.

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Period.

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and destroy. Like a lot of witnesses

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says, it's an eyesore. And no one even said, like, who's living in

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there right now? What's going on in there right now? And they didn't make

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no complaints about what's going on in there right now.

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And so if they really cared about the

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community, they would be on board. All right.

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Thank you for taking the time to call us. We appreciate it. Next hand.

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Krista has been allowed to speak.

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Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

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Hello, my name is Krista Estrada, spelled C-H-R-I-S-T-A-E-S-T-R-A-D-A.

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Right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Are you a neighbor?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Are you for or against this project?

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Against.

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Okay.

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There's been a tremendous amount of testimony relative to this project.

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