Okay, all right. I will be doing my best to avoid the dank area that you made reference to. Thank you for your response, and if they could stay on top of that, I'd greatly appreciate that. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: We'll do that.
Commissioner, what role does your department play in the planning for the Republican Convention? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: In the planning, we have no role. We did have funds for providing some of the telecommunications support. And, again, Mr. Costello is more familiar with what our 3081 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 commitments have been to date. But in the planning aspects, we really don't have a role.
Did you have a role with respect to the planning of parades? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: No. 7
And the routing of them? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: No. We may be asked in the special events context to provide, you know, services that we would normally provide -- sound systems and power and things like that.
But nothing in the routing of parades? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: I don't think so.
'Cause I was puzzled by what I was reading about groups having difficulty getting permits and I don't understand it. It sounded like we were already feeling as if we were under CDBG or something. But your department has nothing to do with it? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: No. There's one thing that probably should be clarified. Because of Secret Service involvement, the site itself is considered a Secret Service control zone, and 3082 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 issues about permits all come out of that federal jurisdiction, not the City.
And does that apply to parades routes? COMMISSIONER PEREZ: I don't think so, but I'm not familiar with their details because a lot of details really haven't been available in earnest until there was actually a candidate from the larger field.
I thought Secret Service only comes in after the nomination is made and the person becomes an official candidate for president, but I don't think they have anything to do with the grant of the permits or with the location of where protesters, or whoever wants to protest for whatever purpose, have to stand. I don't think Secret Service is -- COMMISSIONER PEREZ: The only time I get dragged in as an authority into permit issues is when somebody wants to use the City Hall apron or courtyard or the immediate area, and it's rare for us to have a reason not to allow -- there is no formal --
And you've been very 3083 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 cooperative in that area, and I want to thank you for that 'cause I understand that groups that have dealt with your office have been very pleased by the cooperative spirit. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Yes, thank you.
Thank you. Are there any other questions for the Commissioner? (No further questions.)
Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER PEREZ: Thank you.
Linda Seyda, Department of Personnel. (Linda Seyda comes forward.)
I think you were to appear at the request of Councilman Cohen, who, I believe would like to ask some questions or have some clarification of your previous testimony. So at this time, the Chair recognizes 3084 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. Miss Seyda and I have had several conversations over the last week or ten days with respect to the information that we were seeking in a follow-up. She has agreed to be fully cooperative in furnishing the information, and rather than taking the time to ask the questions and get it here lengthy, I would say that there's no need at this point to question Miss Seyda. My office will be working with her office to obtain the necessary information, and I'm sure it will be cooperative. So I have no questions at this time for Miss Seyda.
Well, I'm sorry you were kept waiting so long, I'm sorry about that.
That's quite all right. I was asked to be here for other reasons. And I just would like to add that the Councilman and I have had some discussions and we will be working with him. 3085 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. Miss Seyda?
While you're here, I'd like to ask a question about an issue that has been raised recently relative to the diversity of staff for the City as well as the Health Department. And I want to know what plans does the Personnel Department have to address this issue relative to staff members who can communicate with business -- merchants who have language issues. I know that we -- I asked Mayor Rendell in the Rendell Administration to hire a Korean businessman to work with the Korean businesses in the City because of the language issue and understanding how to do business with the City and the zoning laws, but what plans have you and your department thought about implementing to address the issue of diversity?
Well, actually your question is very timely. I've just this morning had a conversation with Councilman Ortiz, and we have agreed that we would sit down with him and 3086 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 other interested members of Council to have further discussions in terms of how we will proceed in terms of addressing issues regarding the need for City employees who are bilingual in a number of different languages in order to better serve the community. So, yes, we are actively looking at these issues. We are currently activity working with the Department of Human Services in looking at issues there in terms for their need for bilingual employees and ours discussions with Councilman Ortiz will expand those activities.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
No, I -- I think Miss Seyda, I think, answered the question with Councilwoman Tasco. So I think we can. . .
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, 3087 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 the next department will be OHCD. (OHCD representative not present at this time.)
All right, in that event, we will then take the Streets Department. (Streets Department witnesses come forward.)
Good morning. COMMISSIONER MOY: Good morning, Council President Verna.
Mr. Moy, you know I've had a real interest in this whole street lighting issue. And a couple of weeks ago, I went on a drug March in the Olney area and I noticed that the lighting is very dark. And I believe I had asked when you were here earlier to give me a list of the streets in the 9th District that have been -- the lighting has been improved, because that area around Grange and 13th, as well as many other areas, is very, very dark over there, with a lot of drug activity going on over there. And 3088 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 doesn't seem to me that they have been improved at all.
Councilwoman, my name is Joseph Doyle. I'm the City Street Lighting Engineer. The question about the lighting at 13th Street and Grange, frankly, we've improved the lighting in all of the residential streets in --
Excuse me, Mr. Doyle. The stenographer can't hear you. Would you pull the microphone a little closer?
Okay. Councilwoman Tasco was asking me about a list of the locations in the 9th District that has had improved lighting. Quite frankly, we have improved the lighting on all of the residential streets in both the 9th Councilmatic District and citywide, we're almost completed our neighborhood improvement program for replacing the existing fixtures with new equipment. So, quite frankly, we have replaced those lights in that area and I'll be glad to give 3089 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 you the approximate dates when we did the entire area. But we have made some improvements throughout the northwest section of the City over the last approximately months. 7
Well, let me ask 8 you -- well, it's not very bright there so it must 9 have been pretty pitch-black prior to that 'cause 10 it's very dark. 11
Well, what we were doing in 12 our replacement program was taking down one fixture and replacing it with another; we were not adding additional street lights. It was an infrastructure replacement program, not an additional lighting program.
Well, what about the lighting, the brightness of the bulb?
Well, that can be addressed by looking at the spacing of the existing lights and see what we need to do to possibly add additional lighting to improve that light level. Very often, the dark spots in the street cannot be corrected by simply increasing the lighting at the adjacent street lights if they 3090 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 are far spaced apart. And over time, the lighting on the streets in various parts of the City has been added in one block and maybe not added in another, and that's the reason there appears to be a disparity sometimes between blocks and actually light to light.
Well, what is the City's plan to increase the brightness in the community? We want it to look like downtown. In some areas, people don't want bright lights, but in other areas, they do want brighter lights.
We are trying to address the problem by adding additional lights, not by making brighter lights. The reason for that is, by adding additional lights in the gaps that may exist between the existing lights, you will effectively improve the lighting, you will get those dark spots remedied, and there will be better lighting there, and there will be more of a uniformity on the block. If there are widely spaced lights, for example, if there's widely spaced lights that are simply higher wattage, the dark spots still exist. And what it looks like then is actually more of a 3091 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 contrast and, quite frankly, it looks darker. Lighting is very much a perception, a contrast of lightness and darkness. What we are trying to do is make the lighting system more uniform by filling in the gaps, by adding light fixtures on existing PECO utility poles, which would then provide a more uniform and a better lighting system than you would be seeing now.
So how are you going to evaluate where you increase the lights?
We have a new technology improvement, the geographic information system, GIS, where we have actually computerized all of the locations of the existing street lights. It was compiled about two years ago as a result of a fly-over from the City. What that give us is plans that actually show the precise location of each of the street lights, and we could go in and look at particular blocks or neighborhoods or entire areas and then pinpoint from that plan the locations that the spacing of the lights appear to be more than what we would like to see. And as a result, since we have all of the existing PECO 3092 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 utility poles plotted on that, we can pretty quickly determine which poles would be the best candidates for new lights and, therefore, we would have that design.
So can you tell me where you're going to add additional lights in the 9th District?
We have discussed this, and my understanding of it is that the neighborhood stabilization program will provide funding for that type of -- for light installation and would be considered as part of that. I can't speak for the program, but lighting would be -- I think it would be a candidate.
Mr. Doyle, what program is that? COMMISSIONER MOY: Pardon me?
That neighborhood stabilization program, is that something new? COMMISSIONER MOY: I think Mr. Doyle was talking about -- he's using neighborhood stabilization program for the Administration's proposal that they're going to submit 3093 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 subsequently. I think, Joyce Wilkerson, the Deputy Mayor is --
Are you talking about the blight program? COMMISSIONER MOY: The blight program, and it's a different name for it, right.
Does the blight program have something to do with lights?
Is that what we understand, that monies will be in the blight program for additional street lighting? COMMISSIONER MOY: That's a proposal that we would like to recommend the lighting be a part, a component of that program, yes.
Do you think you'll start in the northwest this time? COMMISSIONER MOY: We would have to work that out, yes.
Thank you, Madam 3094 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 Chair. Commissioner, I had planned to ask questions in the same area. We had a discussion when you were here for budget time about the lighting situation on our streets. I learned a new term, the foot candle reading, but -- and we'll get into that. I didn't completely understand what you just said about the lighting situation and then a reference made to the blight elimination program. Could you go back through that. That went right past me. COMMISSIONER MOY: What we are proposing to do is to assess the needs for filling the -- what we would call filling the gaps. I think it's a different term that Mr. Doyle talked about, where we find that there are gaps in the lighting. And we would submit a proposal to the Administration that is a part of the blight removal program or the neighborhood stabilization program, whatever you call it, that they consider this as a part of that program.
Well, what does the one have to do with the other? 3095 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 COMMISSIONER MOY: It would -- we believe that we can address the concerns, if we understand the Council's concerns correctly on lighting, to try and get more uniform lighting in the residential parts of the City.
Right. COMMISSIONER MOY: And we believe that it -- in early conversations with the Administration, that this could be an appropriate way to fund that kind of a project.
Commissioner, based on everything we've heard and virtually nothing that we know as a fact, I mean, the blight elimination program which, you know, as outlined by then-candidate John Street and now as the Mayor, you know, conceptually sounds like a good idea. It's $250 million and, you know, I mean, this is getting to be a little bit like a Christmas tree and everybody's got something on a branch. I mean, every solution to virtually every problem now is going to be handled by the blight elimination program. And I mean, I just -- I don't know -- I mean, we've been talking at the level of lighting 3096 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 on streets in the City way before this was even a concept. And whether we have one or not -- and I'm assuming that we will and that it will come at some point in time, but that has nothing to do with the general darkness faced by many residents in blighted areas, non-blighted areas, or anything else. I mean, it's a part of the City's responsibility. And to the extent that, you know, lighting now becomes some major component of blight elimination, doesn't that take away from what the fundamental purpose of the program is, as I best understand it, which is dealing with hazardous conditions, buildings possible acquisition, disposition, assembling sites abandoned cars. I mean, I don't get it. I'm missing something here. This is the Streets Department and you're in charge of the lights in the City. Blight program or no blight program, as I think it was Mr. Doyle indicated the last time we were here, the foot candle reading in the neighborhoods is 1/4 to 1/2. In our major commercial corridors, it's 4 to 5. I mean, that's, you know, some incredible percent different between those two. 3097 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 And I thought what we were talking about was the prospect of trying to increase the level of light out in the streets. I'd like to know what it would take to do that, both financially and logistically and not necessarily either wait or burden the blight elimination proposal with one more thing that is a normal, regular City service. COMMISSIONER MOY: Our thinking had been -- and we can certainly go the way you're suggesting, but our thinking had been the address the concerns of uniformity of lighting, which is missing at the present time, and that was the -- with these gaps. Now, if we're talking about a different thing, level of lighting and brightness there, it's another way that we could cost that out also as another measure. And I think that's what you're speaking about, a certain multiplier of --
Yeah, I don't -- I didn't necessarily know that the two were in conflict. I mean, you can call it "gaps," you can call it "dark spots," I mean, you can call it whatever you want to call it. It seems to me that 3098 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 the level of complaints that we get, and as detailed by Councilwoman Tasco, is that many of our City streets are dark. And however you guys come up with a solution to that particular problem, whether it's, you only have three lights on the street now, the overhanging cobras and you want to two more and have five, or if you think that you can get some, you know, incredible bulb that allows you to just have the three poles and brighten it from that, or if you want to add lighting to the other side of the street, most of our City streets only have lighting on one side of the street. So the overhanging cobra has to light up that sidewalk, the roadway, and the other sidewalk. Isn't that what happens in most residential neighborhoods? COMMISSIONER MOY: I think there's a question of expectation, and I think the original design -- and Mr. Doyle can speak more to this, and that is that the original design in terms of your street lighting was meant to focus primarily on the street and was not expected to go into the sidewalks. 3099 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 Today, we have a different -- we are looking at things differently, but that was the original design parameter for, you know, quote, the street lighting. And that's -- therefore, when you talk about lighting on one side of the street, the poles being on one side of the street, it was originally not to meant to cast all the way over on wide streets. We try to get 'em on both sides of the street, but on a narrow street, I don't think they were expecting that they were going to cover into -- necessarily into the footway on the opposite side.
Well, either through the wonders of technology or just life as we know it in the 21st century, I mean, isn't it a good thing to have light essentially from sidewalk to sidewalk? Doesn't it make the area either appear safer or make it in fact safer? Isn't a little more light a good thing, generally? COMMISSIONER MOY: I have no quarrel with that. It's a question of design, the original design and expectations of what the lighting system was designed for, and if today we're saying that let's look at it again and 3100 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 expand the design parameters to cover the sidewalks in addition to the street, now you have to change your whole design and your costs. And I think that's what it seems you're asking.
Well, if the decision was made to have the foot candle power on South Broad Street or Walnut Street or some of the Center City areas and commercial corridors to be at four to five, who made that decision and why was that decision made and what is that decision based on? COMMISSIONER MOY: Well, the commercial corridors traditionally have a higher level of lighting. In the case of the downtown, as you are aware, in addition to the street lighting, there are -- much of the downtown now has supplemental pedestrian lighting where the CCD installed that, and that's when -- and Joe can speak to the technical piece of this I think that's where get higher reading now in terms of your commercial corridors. And the guidelines and standards that are usually suggested allow for considerable upgrades through a commercial corridor, understandably. 3101 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
And what do you believe should be, under present-day circumstances, an appropriate lighting level or standard or range in our residential areas? COMMISSIONER MOY: I can let Joe Doyle talk to the specific technical pieces, but generally we have an ASHTO guidelines there that indicate for residential streets there, that you're talking in the neighborhood of 0.4. Is that right?
And what -- and do they make any distinction between urban, suburban, rural?
Councilman, the ash to is, as the Commissioner referred to, is --
ASHTO is the Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. It is very much of a standards-establishing group funded by the various departments of transportation throughout the United States, and they actually either develop standards or adopt other 3102 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 standards. In this particular case ASHTO has adopted the IES, the Illuminating Engineering Society standards for lighting. And specifically, they do categorize the various type of roadway use and they subcategorize the land use, if you will, be it residential or commercial or industrial and so forth. And so that it is developed around a selection process that does approximate our urban lighting conditions. And so that their numbers are used as guidelines throughout the United States by all the various lighting agencies to I illuminate the roadway area.
Well, maybe we should ask some of the ASHTO people if they'd like to hang out -- maybe they' like to check the lighting level at 19th and Dauphin or 56th and Master or up on Champlost Street or some of these other streets and see if they feel comfortable at 0.4 versus some other level of lighting. I mean, are we restricted by any ordinance or statute from raising the lighting level, the foot candle power in the City? 3103 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
No. The ASHTO criteria are simply guidelines that are established to provide an approximation of what lighting levels could or should be. They do take into consideration the cost of energy, the number of lights and the relative costing of a lighting system.
Has the Streets Department ever given any thought to raising the foot candle power of lighting in our residential areas throughout the City?
We have always considered that possibility, but because, as we discussed earlier, we can meet ASHTO criteria by having a fully implemented lighting system -- for example filling in the gaps -- if there are, for example, four PECO light poles on a street and only three of them have street lights on them, for example, if we add a fourth light, that would bring it up to ASHTO's criteria with the existing lighting equipment that we use.
To add that fourth 3104 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 light?
Well, there was some discussion in the current fiscal year about funding to do a selected additional lighting program and, as you mentioned, on the neighborhood stabilization program, that that might provide a funding source for a more comprehensive citywide program.
The cost of adding the additional lighting that we feel that would be needed in a neighborhoods to bring the lighting up to ASHTO standards, arguable as they may be --
Well, stop right there. Are you saying that we're below ASHTO standards right now?
This is -- that's why when 3105 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 I was asked what the lighting level is, it varies from block to block. Some blocks have more lights, some have less. To make that a completely uniform system, we estimate that there would be a need to add approximately 10,000 street lights throughout the City on existing PECO wood poles to provide a relatively uniform level of lighting on all the residential blocks.
Mm-hmm. Is that in the response that we got back? Was that in the original testimony, or where does that figure come from?
In the last two weeks, I've developed that estimate on what would be needed. As a result of your inquiries at the last hearing, we started to internally discuss this matter and develop these numbers.
All right. So it had not been shared before. I didn't miss a document or something.
And 10,000 new light, how much would they cost? 3106 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Okay, $5 million -- 4 for which you presently have no funding. 5
And it was that that then led you to think that you might be able to get some from blight fund elimination.
Okay. These kinds of light, would they be out of capital?
If I might add, Councilman, to clarify that, there's about a $5 million capital-funded program to install the additional lighting, and there is approximately a 1 to $1.5 million additional operating cost to maintain and energize those lights. So the capital costs would be approximately $5 million, Operating Budget would be about $1.5 million.
Okay. And did you give any consideration or thought to possibly just getting, or seeking to get, an additional $5 million on the capital side?
We have not pursued that at this time. 3107 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Had there previously ever been a request for capital dollars for additional lighting in Philadelphia?
We had -- I think you had asked that question a year ago at the Council hearings, and we provided an estimate of what we had historically, but we really didn't think through the entire program to where we can say now, with relative accuracy, of what the scope of the problem is. We always knew that there were blocks that had -- some blocks had more lighting than other blocks, but we really didn't have a good method for estimating that until the GIS system came on board and we were able to look at it a little bit more closely. Again, this is just a very basic estimate on what those needs are, and we've done that within the past two weeks.
Okay. Will you get this information in a more detailed fashion. And do you plan to refine this into a proposal that Council might be able to take a look at as well?
Councilman, we'll provide whatever information you're asking for. The neighborhood stabilization program is, of course, not one that we're developing, so we would have to coordinate.
And is it going to change dramatically, is it going to stay within the same range that we're talking? Are we about talking about going from 1/4 to 1/2 up to 1? Are we talking about going from 6/8ths to 7/8ths?
Right now, Councilman, we're looking at going from 1/4 to 1/2 in every block in the City. We would meet the ASHTO criteria in each of the blocks in the City.
Many blocks right now meet that level, and we would not be adding additional lighting. It would be only a fill-in program for those blocks that do not currently meet the ASHTO 3109 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 criteria of the -- of approximate 1/2.
Okay. Well, my last question, I guess, is, notwithstanding the ASHTO guidelines, do you believe that there is any need to increase the lighting level beyond the ASHTO guidelines? And can you tell me, in my district, a half a dozen streets that presently meet the guidelines? 'cause I'd like to see the guidelines in action.
We can look at that on a very selected basis of approximately half a dozen blocks, at your request.
Okay. And the first question? Do you believe the lighting level needs to be increased beyond the present ASHTO guidelines?
I feel that the ASHTO criteria were established for good reason, and I feel that would be an adequate light level on the streets of Philadelphia. The half-foot candle is adequate.
The one-half foot candle, 3110 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 if provided uniformly on the block, on a residential street in Philadelphia, would be adequate for the use in that block, in that neighborhood.
From a lighting standpoint for pedestrians, for vehicles, for people who would live in the neighborhood.
There's a cost associated -- a significant cost associated with increasing the light level.
I didn't ask you about cost. This is a public policy, a public safety discussion; it's not a cost discussion. You and I had the dialogue a couple weeks ago. Would you rather walk down a street that's 1/4 to 1/4, or would rather walk down a street that's 4 to 5? And I think your answer was that you'd rather be on the 4 to 5 Street. Is that correct?
Okay. So let's talk about the policy now. I don't want to talk 3111 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 about the money for the time being. It's a safety issue, it's a perception of safety issue out on our streets.
The 4 to 5, as we've stated, is in a central business district, in downtown Philadelphia.
On Walnut Street and South Broad Street. That's where it is now, and that was installed to satisfy the various commercial and other cultural activities in Philadelphia for that reason.
I understand that, and I don't think that most residential areas want their street lit up like Walnut Street.
But somewhere between a 1/4 and 1/2, and 4 to 5 is a level that would give the average residential citizen comfort level and a sight distance level and would probably discourage some activities that going on out in our residential streets, that is reasonable and rational. And what I'm asking you is, what is that level? 3112 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Thank you, Councilman. I believe the Sergeant-At-Arms wants to adjust the mike for a second, and then we will go to Councilwoman Miller.
If you would allow me one last question, I will promise not to come back on the Streets Department.
Thank you. Just on the Streets Department. Commissioner, in your response to the Council President, you talked about the Department's compliance with Section 5-500 d. of the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, which places 3113 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 responsibility for certain pedestrians and vehicular safety issues in the Streets Department. I believe the pertinent section 5 "Traffic Engineering," which talks about preparing engineering studies and surveys in regard to vehicular and pedestrian traffic, prepare analysis of traffic accidents for determining their cause and means of their prevention, and institute and conduct an educational and public information program for the purpose of promoting the safety and unimpeded movement of vehicular and pedestrian traffic. And your response pointed me to Attachment 8, which talked about Street Smarts and Operation Crosswalk and a Peril for Pedestrians TV program. Now, is that the Department's response with regard to the requirement of the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter? COMMISSIONER MOY: I think that's in part some of the things that the Department does and -- you know, there's Operation Crosswalk and there's Back to School signs that are erected. There's a series of things in the Bicycle Coalition Network there, the network that we have 3114 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 out on the Web page. It gives a lot of instructions on safety. The Health Department also gets a grant to address the education of traffic safety in the schools. So there is a number of activities that the City is doing in this area, and they're not all defined in Attachment 8.
Well, is it my understanding that there is no funding for the Operation Crosswalk program? COMMISSIONER MOY: No. There was a -- I think the funding had run out on a grant there. We continue to -- the basic part of the program continues to paint the continental crosswalks for the Center City and many of the crosswalks throughout the City.
Well, let me ask this question. I mean, for the average Philadelphian, what would they get or what would they receive that a person might consider coming out of conducting an educational and public information program for the purpose of promoting the safety and unimpeded movement of vehicular and pedestrian traffic? I mean, what happens on a 3115 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 daily basis in Philadelphia that qualifies for that?
Councilman Nutter, Charles Trainor, the Chief Traffic Engineer. The Street Smarts program, which is funded through a grant from the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Highway Safety Program, through the Health Department, is -- they do seat belt safety, pedestrian safety, and bike safety. They visit approximately 300 schools per year. In March, or this month, they're scheduled to visit 35 schools and do 50 presentations. They do community programs, library programs. They visit senior citizen centers. They also conduct bike rodeos. They work with the Safe Kids Coalition and the Academy of Pediatrics and the Police Department.
This is under contract through Philadelphia Health Management Corporation from a grant from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration?
I understand. 3116 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 COMMISSIONER MOY: I believe that's annual, this one.
Right. I guess what I'm trying to understand is what does the Department do on own, or of itself, or out of its own resources to have this educational and public information program for pedestrian and vehicular safety? COMMISSIONER MOY: We don't have dedicated resources to a specific program there, Councilman, if that's what you're asking. But we do is to have input into some of these programs that the Mayor's Office had, and Operation Crosswalk and some of the Health Department's programs. To see that they're coordinated, we work with AAA but, it's not a full-time effort where -- if you're asking, are we publishing handouts and things like that, no. 20
Any kind of booklets or guides. I mean, I got the impression -- I mean, that's a real live program and activity and it's something that's constantly being promoted by the Department, as opposed to kind of a circuitous thing where PennDOT's giving 3117 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 money to give to somebody, who's giving money to somebody else to go out and do some things. I mean, that kind of doesn't have anything to do with the Streets Department too much. COMMISSIONER MOY: Right. Well, I think what we recognized was that the grant was covering this area a few years ago when Operation Crosswalk was active, that's what we reviewed, the Health Department's program and activities there.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Commissioner Moy. COMMISSIONER MOY: Good afternoon.
I have some questions about the pilot mechanical cleaning program, and pretty much it's around signage. You know, I know you're aware that we've gotten lots of calls regarding the additional signs that are being put up, and part of the area I travel 3118 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 through pretty much every morning, and I know that on the streets where the signs are put on the telegraph pole, that doesn't seem to be a problem. But the problem -- and I don't know whether the other Councilpeople that have this pilot program in their district are having the same problem. But the problem seems to be with all these new additional metal poles and signs. I need to know how flexible the Department will be with towing, particularly for people that have a handicap space, people that are sick or shut, if people are going on vacations. I mean, we really need to get a sense of how this new mechanical cleaning is going to impact people's daily living. And we hate the program, by the way. No, we don't really don't hate the program but we're getting lots and lots of calls pretty much on these signs. And are you getting them too, Joan?
Yes. So we're glad to have our streets cleaned. In fact, we 3119 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 finally got one call thanking us. They said they've never had a mechanical broom come through their street. And we know it's going to be a good program and it's going to be citywide. We want to help it be successful, but we also have it take into consideration our constituents' needs and their issues. And we know they also put a sign on your lawn, Commissioner Moy, because you live within the boundaries. COMMISSIONER MOY: Right, right.
Good afternoon. My name is Clarena Tolson, Deputy Streets Commissioner. Councilpeople, I'm happy to talk about the pilot cleaning program. This is one that we've kind of begun together as a partnership and we are being aggressive about trying to move forward with cleaning the City. And we're taking a lot of risk -- risk in that we are asking citizens to do something that they have never had to do before, which is to move cars to support cleaning in their communities. We're learning through this 3120 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 process. We're in the midst of a pilot program that will go through December of this year. And we're going to evaluate lots of different parameters about the program, like, how well are we cleaning the streets, are cars moving, what do citizens feel about the program? Before we engaged in the start of this program, we did a citizen survey to ask people if they would be willing to move their cars to support street-cleaning on a weekly basis. And in every single Councilmatic district, in excess of 95 percent of the people said they would be willing to move their cars to support the program. I think what we're seeing now are some of the growth pains of actually implementing the program, and I think that some of them we had not anticipated, and we're going to need to pay careful attention to how citizens are responding. One big issue that a number of Councilpeople have had -- and we have in our office as well 'cause we do get calls -- is in regard to sign installation. I think that people want a cleaning program but don't necessarily understand all that goes with it. 3121 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Like you have to have a sign to tell people when not to park, because folks don't know to do it automatically. In some communities and some cities where people have done mechanical cleaning for years, it's a routine thing -- you know to get up in the middle of the night and move a car, and some programs are a lot more intrusive than the one that we have in Philadelphia, I think. With regard to the pole installation and the sign installation, we're going to need to pay careful attention to that, and maybe have to be more flexible in the future as we talk about if this program is successful, with how many signs we place in blocks in various communities, because maybe the number that we're placing is inappropriate, maybe we can do with less. But I think that we're going to have to, unfortunately, kind of have to experience doing it the way that we think it should be designed based upon how other cities do it. And if Philadelphia requires a different need, then do something different. 3122 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 I think that we have certainly challenged ourselves too in some of the areas where we are. We have some areas of the City where the parking is very, very dense. We didn't take the easy way across the City. We are really challenging ourselves with how we move in with the cleaning program.
Okay. I just want to comment here on the density issue. You know, in many blocks, the parking is very dense 'cause families have more than one car. And I don't even know how you could really take this into consideration. However, you know, if I have a little parking space or a little space that I normally think is mine, even though I know it's not, in front of my home and you put a pole up, then when I open my door, I can't open my door because the pole is there now, so it is causing people some inconvenience. And I don't know -- I don't even know how that issue could even be addressed 'cause you'd have no idea of knowing where a car is going to be parked pretty much and if the door -- if it's not a lot of space, you can't even move up or 3123 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 back. But some of the issues are legitimate. The blocks that I go through that have the signs on the telegraph pole, they look great, but those other blocks, I saw one of these little dumb poles leaning and I said, well, they probably could have done that one a little better. But it may be growing pains, and people do have to get used to this. But I did want to raise the issue. I think other Councilpeople should know about it. And I'm going to submit some of my time to Councilwoman Krajewski, because she also has some comments about this.
(Not fully audible - off-mike.) This has been a problem with me. My problem is --
I'll never get 3124 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 used to this.
My problem is the parking hours. I've had it -- I'm not talking about today. I have no parking from this hour to that hour. Now, the Streets Department will come along and they will clean, they'll clean it. I had one woman -- I just checked it out again today -- who called. They cleaned her street, say, at 7 in the morning, so she thought it would be fine now to bring her car back and park in front of her house. Well, she got a warning, she got a warning from the Parking Authority, I believe that she couldn't park there, but they had already cleaned her street. Now, you know, where is she supposed to park? It just doesn't make sense to me. They have the hours where you cannot park at this time, and they already cleaned the street before 8 o'clock in the morning, and the people who come back and park their car, then they get a warning that they're not supposed to park the car till after 8 o'clock. 3125 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Councilwoman, that's a problem that we will definitely resolve. We're working with the Parking Authority -- I should say, the Parking Authority's working with us on this program, they're supporting us. By design, what they're supposed to do is work in front of our vehicle. Once we've cleared, go through a street, we're not interested in ticketing cars. I mean, the ticketing portion is just to get street cleared so we can have --
But the people do not realized this, Clarena. They tell me that they cannot park their car till after 8 o'clock in the morning.
Well, what you describe is a problem -- if the Parking Authority gave a warning after we've already gone through, we need to just go through a reminder with them that we want them work to work in front of us. Once we've gone through and cleaned the street or attempted to go through the street, we don't want them to work behind us, we want them to stay in front of us. In our areas, we meet in the morning 3126 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 before we start and we allow the Parking Authority to get ahead of us for a few blocks, and then we work behind them. They stay in front of us. Once we've gone through, there shouldn't be a warning or a ticket given to any cars.
Then I've also had it when they remove their cars but the Streets Department didn't come down to clean the street. I don't know if you have that or not, Councilwoman.
I would love to hear about all of those issues and those circumstances, because if there's a problem that we need to address operationally, we will need to do that. I have talked with our fleet group about some of our maintenance concerns that we have with some vehicles, particularly our smaller vehicles that use in some communities. But I would like to know about all of those instances, when they happen, because we can certainly check them out and see what's going on. We are closely monitoring each of our cleaning areas. We're counting cars, we're 3127 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 looking at compliance issues and all those type of things to try to determine, are we successful or are we not?
And I also have a problem with the amount of signs. They have so many signs on one street. I believe it's Mr. Trainor? Sorry, Charlie. The signs, I mean, they're all over. They look -- I've had a lot of complaints about the signs.
Councilwoman, I agree that there's a lot of signs that have gone up. We've put a heck of a lot of signs up in the last nine months. Basically when we go into a block, and a typical block being 500 feet, you're talking to signs usually. In some cases, you may get more, depending on what obstacles wind up being there. If there's a lot of trees, we may even put more signs because the sign is blocked. The signs -- four signs basically is one sign at the beginning of the block one sign at the end of the block and two at the quarter points. Three signs is at the halfway point. We 3128 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 do try when we put 'em in, we do try to avoid people's windows and entrances to their houses. Unfortunately, we can't address the issue of the car door 'cause we do not have specifically spaces marked out on the street, but we do try to avoid the people's windows and entrances. At times, though, we cannot do that. Up in my area, we have driveways between the houses, so we're not going to put a sign in front of a driveway; therefore, we're going to be in front of somebody's steps. And I know my neighbors are going to be knocking on my door in a couple days. That's really the only answer I can give you.
I personally think it's a great program. I'm not complaining about the program, 'cause as you said, Clarena, I know it's a pilot program. And I want to see it work, I want to see it be successful, but we do have quite a few complaints as far as the signs. Thank you, Councilwoman.
You're welcome. 3129 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
I don't have any more comments, but I think we'll probably need to meet again about the mechanical cleaning. I know that you did a door-to-door distribution in my area to inform citizens, and we also had communities meeting to let people know, but at the time, that was prior to everything starting. We may need to have another meeting -- maybe with just those blocks complaining, to come out so they can get their questions answered, and they can share more about what their concerns are. We've had a tremendous amount of calls, and pretty much it's been more around signage. And some blocks have said other things, but pretty much, it's been around signage and the new poles. So I'll probably give you a call and maybe we can figure something out, okay?
Thank you, Councilwoman. We'd be happy to meet with any Councilperson and their staff to talk about maybe how to respond to some of the calls, and maybe we can handle some of the calls for you -- we would be glad to do that. 3130 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 Additionally, we would be glad to go out to any community meeting at any time, any day of the week, to discuss these issues and any others.
Thank you. And I know, Miss Tolson, you did attend a meeting in my district one night last week, and I never thought I would hear constituents say they did not want their streets cleaned. They're just so frustrated in the fact that they have no place to park their cars. And I have to agree there are signs that are posted that street cleaning is on Tuesday, and perhaps it is not done for several weeks, so people assume that they can park their cars, and the street cleaning's not going to be done on a Tuesday, and consequently, they end up with ticket upon picket ticket upon ticket. I think there has got to be a review of this entire program, I know, in my district because I get more complaints than I get thank-you's. So I think that's something we're going to have to sit down and talk about. At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. 3131 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010
Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to go back momentarily to the street lighting issue. We discussed the additional foot power and the addition of street lights, and I think I've mentioned this before. I'm concerned with the inventory of street lights that we already have. And as I travel throughout the City, I don't think I've ever seen more street lights out at night. Henry Avenue is a perfect example. From Walnut Lane to Andorra, I would say two-thirds of the circuit is off and there are intermittent interruptions of street lights. Again, this is in all neighborhoods of the City, and I'm thinking that the next time I go back, they'll be a repaired and working. But then I go back a month later and the street lights are still out. And I know a little bit about the process that you use, that you have a subcontractor or PECO Energy, a subsidiary company of PECO Energy that maintains the street light system for the City. And I believe as part of 3132 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 that contract and responsibility, they're supposed to patrol and identify the street lights that are out. What I'd like you to do, because I'm interested that they're doing what they're supposed to do and if there's some follow-up. And, again, I can identify -- and I won't do it here -- a dozen different locations where street lights have been out for well in excess of a month. I'd like you to provide the Chair the audit that that subcontractor provides for January, February. And when March is completed, I'd like to know how many street lights that we have out at any one time. I'd like -- again, I'd like to see the entire report and I'd like to see once a street light is identified as being a problem, whether it needs to be repaired by the City or a there's a loose connection or whatever, how long it takes to get that street light back. Because again, Joe, I've never seen so many street lights out throughout the City as I have recently. And, again, I understand the problems on Henry Avenue, and Peco Energy tells me 3133 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 that they're going to do some major construction there to get that back, but Henry Avenue is obviously a street that cannot be -- especially last night in that rain storm, if there were accidents there, the lack of street lighting contributed to that. So I would like you to provide January, February, and when March is available, the audit that that subcontractor does for the City and how we review that data and respond to it.
Councilman, just so you're kind of aware, we have a three-party maintenance system on the street lighting. We have a maintenance contractor, PECO Exelon, which is responsible for basically accepting all complaint calls, investigating the location, and making those repairs that they can. The lamp principally is what they are able to repair. The City forces also play a role in this, that we have our own repair forces that are responsible for taking individual lights that are out. Similar to any individual light, where PECO Exelon cannot make the repair, it's referred back to the City. 3134 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 But the larger outages are normally a PECO -- which I will call a "PECO utility problem," Henry Avenue being a perfect example. There are several hundred outstanding repair orders with PECO Energy to make circuit problems, some of which may be as small as one light. Others are several, or maybe many, as on Henry Avenue. And I'll be glad to provide that information to you, but I think we must temper our criticism of them with the understanding that it's been a very difficult January, February -- first with the snow, with all the salt that was spread on the road, with the thaw and the melting and now the rain. Springtime is normally the worst time for the electrical distribution system. Water is the enemy of street lighting. And so I will be glad to provide that information, but I would expect that by the end of April and as we get into May that that problem -- you'll see a significant improvement in the larger -- in the number of lights that are out, so you would see it really getting better.
Henry Avenue is not 3135 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 -- and for the people that live in the northwest, Henry Avenue is not just a problem with development. It's been a problem since it's been installed, it's been something that I've pretty much grown up with, this problem on Henry Avenue. But my point being -- you just mentioned salt and the environmental problems. I'm not talking about the underground circumstances. I'll give you an example. I personally reported Shawmont and Ridge. The street light at that intersection is out now for over six weeks, and it is still out. It's a major intersection. And I can give you a list of 15 more locations that street lights are out 16 throughout the City and have not been repaired. 17 Just check that one and get back to me. 18
We have been experiencing our own backlog. Because of the bad weather, we weren't able to make repairs and we did accumulate a backlog, but we will look at this and --
How many street lights do you have out do you think right today, 3136 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 both underground and aerial circuits?
Total, yes. One percent of the system is out of service, and that's a high number. Normally, we're in the 5 to 600 range.
There is a continuing problem. I know 1,000 does sound like a large number of lights, and in a sense it is, but it represents 1 percent of the system, and it's a moving 1 percent. It's not the same 1 percent that's out.
But I've got a feeling that the problem that we have is -- you mentioned 1,000 street lights out in the City of Philadelphia. We're talking about adding. I would just love you to deal with what we have and get those working, and I'm concerned about the length of time. I think when you check the one at Shawmont and the Ridge, you're going to find out that it's been out and you're not going to be 3137 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 happy about the length of time that it's been out. So I think you really need to focus on doing whatever you need to do or revisiting the way you repair these lights. If PECO Energy or Exelon can make this repair and you're referring it back to the City workforce -- and I understand the politics and how you have to do things, but I'd like to see it the most efficient way, the repair completed so the street light can be back. If you have 1,000 street lights, even 1 percent, to someone that lives in that neighborhood, that's a lot of street lights, in my opinion. You just mentioned that's twice the norm.
Right. Of course, it's 1,000 spread out through the entire City.
One of the things that we have done to try to minimize that problem is, as we were discussing earlier, we have replaced the lighting system. Over 60,000 street light lights have been replaced over the past eight years on an ongoing preventive maintenance program to put new equipment up and to keep them from failing. I 3138 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 mean, we have been taking significant strides in trying to preempt the problem of lights out, as you would -- we have removed equipment that was over 30 years before it failed and put up a new light. There may -- I can't explain the location at Ridge and Shawmont, but we do -- we're very, very sensitive to the time that lights are out, we appreciate the problem, and we'll be glad to give you that information.
Yeah, 'cause I think I understand the process, but when they're out for this long a period of time, we need to do something about it. And you know the one that really interests me -- and, again, Kelly Drive is a very, very dangerous roadway, even during the day. Without street lighting at night, and part of that circuit's off also, I really feel bad. You know, part of that circuit's out, Joe. I really feel bad on a night like last night that anyone might be coming up that roadway without illumination.
We have worked with PECO, actually. You're saying that part of that circuit 3139 3/22/00 - WHOLE - BILLS 000003-000010 is out, but we have been making a very concerted effort with PECO over the past month. And I know the Commissioner rides Kelly Drive himself and mentions to me the problems up there. But we -- we are -- we have tried to instill in PECO a timetable for them to make repairs as quickly as possible with the resources that they have to get those lights back up.