Or if they're not legalized, have them removed. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: If that's what it takes, yes.
Well, is your new automation system going to help you with that? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, absolutely.
And when will you have that? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Thanks to our Managing Director, L&I's automation has been put on the fast track, and we've got two pieces. You 1844 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET talked about the certification; very shortly, the certification should be online so that useless piece of paper will be -- we'll be able get that over the Internet. The other part of it is our inspectors on the NTI should be out in the field -- will be out in the field with IPAC handheld devices where they'll be able to see violation information and enter information actually on the device.
Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Commissioner and all of the Deputy Commissioners, thank you.
Thank you again. We appreciate your coming by. Oh, I'm sorry, Councilman Ortiz.
Yes, I have a few questions that emanated. Inspector, Councilman Nutter asked you about the billing for the empty lots, but I don't know if he asked you about how much revenue have we gotten from that billing, if any, the enforcement of that?
It's very -- it's probably 1845 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET percent, percent. The more important part -- well, we have to bill as part of the City Charter.
But I believe the more important part of the billing is that it gives the City the ability to take that property and turn it over to somebody who will do something with it, the liens that we place.
And do you have a certain amount of -- in terms of the liens that we have imposed on all of these properties, how much is the amount? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: We own most of those lots anyway.
Okay. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: I mean, you know, when you're talking about revenue coming in, most of those vacant lots are City-owned lots, 40 percent.
I was going through your decisions here, and you have one construction trades inspector for plumbing. Is there only a need for a construction trades inspector for plumbing, or is there a need for more in the other 1846 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET trades?
Yeah, in terms of plumbing inspectors, I believe we have currently in 5 the -- on our budget. The position you're talking 6 about, which one are you referring to? 7
, 24, Housing 8 Code Enforcement. Two bilingual inspectors for 9 housing and fire inspection. 10
In terms of that plumbing 11 inspector, that inspector previously worked in the Construction Division, which is my division, doing permit inspections. We felt there was a need to have a plumbing inspector involved with Housing and with Business Compliance, commercial/industrial inspection, and that inspector was transferred over to that particular division.
Is there other construction trades inspectors, or is this the only one?
We have constructor trades inspectors -- building and electrical.
I don't see that. 1847 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET
That's just in the Housing Division. In the Construction Services Division, we have other inspectors. This is an atypical assignment. Most of the construction trades inspectors would be in the Construction Services Division, not the Housing Division.
Do you have plans for more? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: We have more than that.
In that particular unit. We have a total of bilingual people in the 18 Department. Most of them are either in our 19 Business Regulatory Unit, the Housing Unit, we have 20 a couple in the Fire Unit, so that we do have a number of bilingual inspectors. But we are always looking for more bilingual inspectors, and we have recruited, and we have a special title for 'em, as you can see, and we do recruit on a regular basis for those folks. 1848 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET
Commissioner, in terms of the piers, how is it going and how many of the owners of those piers have provided certification, or how many have you certified as safe? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: We only -- out of 140 -- how many did we say? 144 or something like that. There are two that we're still dealing with to try to get certifications. We have certifications, and all of rest of them were satisfied that they are either safe in themselves or restricted from public access. And both of those are Conrail. Conrail is trying to figure out whether it's CSX that should be responsible or Conrail; we're back and forth between them, trying to figure out who's responsible for the pier.
I just found out that roofing permits are sold in advance to contractors.
We put together a program to sell to licensed contractors prepaid roofing permits. They're valid for single-family re-roofing projects. The problem that we had was, if you have a rainy period, people want their roofs replaced 1849 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET immediately, and contractors are making the excuse that they didn't want to have to go downtown to pick up those particular permits. So we said fine, and we put together what we call a "poor man's Internet," which is were we basically sell these permits to the licensed contractors in advance, and when they get a particular job, a contract from a homeowner, they activate that permit by notifying us and by giving the homeowner a copy of the permit document. It's also a safeguard for homeowners to know that the contractor that's producing a copy of that permit is a licensed contractor, has insurance, and has met the City's requirements in terms of permitting.
And do you have, in terms of minority lines, contractors that are African-American, Latinos and so on down the line?
These permits are obtained by the private industry, and any contractor that obtains a contractor's license is eligible to 1850 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET purchase 'em. They're not under contract with the Department or the City; these are private individuals.
In terms of demolitions that took place in 2000, 2001, and the first half of 2002, how many of these contracts went to minority contractors, and what was the total of the amount of monies that went to minority contractors?
We can provide that for you. There are several that are minorities and/or female-owned companies. We can provide the amount of money that was awarded to them to the Chair.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the committee?
Yes, sir. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. I think we're all very heavily indebted to Councilman Nutter for his presentation particularly 1851 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET today on what L&I ought to be doing, the services that you ought to render. I think it's the agency that's probably the most important one in the whole City, even though it's never recognized as that. I think it probably has to be doubled at least in size if it's to do all of the tasks that are assigned to it. Historically, the agency has always cooperated with the City. We've passed all kinds of ordinances signed by the Mayor imposing duties on L&I, and in a very cooperative way, the L&I Department always tells us that they're going to do their very best, they're going to try to do it within the present size of the staff, because we always ask them to do the impossible. And the results have been what, I guess, we should have expected. When you spread too thin over too large an area, there are very distinct limitations, and I think we suffer from them. And probably the biggest reason Philadelphia has been losing population is because in the business area, there is this constant hassle about permits, about what is required, and nobody's ever solved in an easy way to make it easy for 1852 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET someone to get into business and to do it lawfully and to meet all of the necessary requirements. And in the community, the feeling is very largely, almost anything goes. I'm -- so I say thanks to Councilman Nutter, and I hope he continues the efforts to get the simple pamphlet published as to what a homeowner's responsibilities are and continues his efforts in the business field and in all other areas of L&I. But I want to deal with one thing that I had a long discussion with the Commissioner about yesterday, and that's the billboards. The Commissioner and I go way back. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Way back.
Because he did an excellent and outstanding job as captain in the 35th District in the 17th district, where I'm the Democratic leader and have been for more than 35 years. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you.
And that covers, I think, a long period of the Commission's activities on behalf the City, and I know he tries to do the 1853 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET very best that he can do with the forces he has. But I think, Commissioner, you are wrong in one area: About billboards. You say these billboards just proliferated at a time people didn't care, but it wasn't that people didn't care; they care heavily. They cared enough so that this Council, after several years of study, passed a very fair bill outlining specifically all of the requirements. What happened was that the various mayors have been smarter than we were in City Council, and so it just happened to be that when the Mayor was the lawyer and the law firm he came from always happened to have the lawyer from the billboard companies as a part of his staff, and that's a pretty difficult combination to deal with. It happens even currently today. The billboard industry is -- I don't like to call them "an industry," 'cause I don't think they really are that. They've been known to be considered as parasites in that they build on other people's premises. And what they do when they do that is, they take away the natural environment from people. And parts of the City that were 1854 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET fairly open are now completely marred by the presence of billboards. When you drive on the Schuylkill Expressway, the only place I can compare it to is on a short trip I had to Las Vegas a couple of years. It's like "Billboard City." Anything goes here, this is an open town, do what you want to do. And in the crowded urban areas of the City, which already suffer from lack of sunlight, from lack of greenery or blue skies, they clutter up whatever little land that exists. And on top of that, they often do it in ways that many in the minority community and most people outside the minority community feel exploits the minority communities in the way of liquor and in the way of tobacco sales, particularly with emphasis on youngsters. That's the reason for the proliferation. And, Commissioner, I am a little distressed when you say that you would want to leave office at sometime -- and I hope it's not soon -- with all of the signs legalized. I would prefer to hear you say that when you leave office, the only signs that will be up would be signs that 1855 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET are legal, because I don't think that two-thirds of the signs, which my studies indicate and SCRUB's studies indicate, are there are legally currently, and I don't think that they ought to be legalized, because then they'll condemn us in Philadelphia forever to a condition that's very severely blighted by us by our poor policies, by our refusal to enforce the law, because the billboard law just has not been enforced. When we realized, as we dealt with the billboard legislation, that your staff was very severely understaffed and that it was not likely that you would get the kind of enforcement because of the cost in salaries and all the other expenses going with an increased staff, we tried to devise a technique that would save L&I from heavy expenditures. We made as part of the law a license tag requirement. We called it a "license tag requirement" because it was supposed to be a marker on each billboard sign large enough to be visible from the street so that the community could enforce the signs. No mayor ever permitted the enforcement of 1856 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET that law. We were given stories long before you became commissioner as to all of the different studies that were being made and how this was being reviewed and how they were about to do it, but it never got done. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: We've ordered those stickers.
Well, it would be a wonderful thing even they come a dozen years after law has been passed. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: No, we've ordered them. They'll be there, and those stickers will be affixed
They'll be on the signs? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: They will be affixed when we do the inspection.
Well, when would it be that the billboards that are up now would have this sticker -- it could be read from the street, right? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. It's a strip about that big (indicating).
When would the time be when, in your judgment, every sign that was 1857 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET entitled to it had such a sticker? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: I would say within the next two years that -- you know, we have -- I'm not sure how many actual structures we have. We think we have about 4500 sign faces. Some of those structures have more than one sign, so I'm not sure what the 4500 -- because the ordinance requires us to pay attention, for licensing and billing purposes, to the sign face. That's why I have that number. I'd say within the next two years. By the end of this fiscal year -- or by the end of this calendar year, I hope to have a complete database on where all of those signs are. Even if I'm going to proceed to take a sign down, I have to be sure that I know how many of those type signs I have. Because the people at L&I are not going to be taking 'em down; I'm going to have to get a number of those signs together, I'm going to have to bid them, and I'm going to have to see if I have money to take down the signs that are illegal.
Aren't you first going to make the demand that the company that has the sign now that's drawing the revenue from the 1858 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET sign --
Excuse me, Councilman. The stenographer can't hear you when you turn your face.
Oh, all right. Aren't you going to be first demanding that the companies that are profiting from the signs that are being paid fees or rentals for the signs, aren't you going to make sure that the demand is first made that they take them down? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. We'll do that right away.
And if they don't, what is the penalty going to be? And shouldn't it be a penalty that is pretty persuasive so that what happens is that it's a sign that's taken down. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: I don't have any objection to it doing it. I mean, that's the process that we would enter into. I was talking about the signs that don't come down as a result of that.
Well, are you -- what are you going to do with respect to proof as to whether or not a sign is properly placed? Are you 1859 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET going to demand the demonstration to you of permits and licenses by the companies? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: We are in the process of doing that. We're working with all ten of the companies in Philadelphia and legalizing those signs that have -- the situation with this industry is that different companies have purchased a lot of -- we had more sign companies than ten. We're down to ten, and some of the names you wouldn't even recognize because you're not used to seeing them on signs. For example, Eller is the biggest company in the City, and they gobbled a few other companies up to become the biggest, and they're no longer Eller; they're Clear Channel. So you need a score card to keep track of the names of these companies. We're dealing with these people that are in our place. There was one woman from Clear Channel who I thought was an L&I employee she was there so often working with like -- I mentioned Joe D'Orio to you as far as the person I have for the last year handling this thing, spearheading it, being the constant person in charge of the sign issue, trying to -- 1860 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET
Well, isn't the requirement on the company to prove that it is there legally? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. The problem they have is when they bought those six companies that represent their 2500 signs, they didn't do due diligence in making sure that they were buying all legal signs. I mean, McDonald's, as you know, is blissfully advertising on illegal signs.
Well, but that's not the City's problem; that's the company's problem. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: I know.
And, therefore, the City is not responsible for the illegal signs being there, and the City has the right to demand legally that they come down. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: And we've done that.
Well, do you know -- how many signs have been removed by companies? COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Zero.
Well, it seems to me something has to be done differently about the 1861 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET demand, and it goes back to the enforcement questions that came up earlier. I am just suggesting that I think when we change the tone in the City so that -- you know, in many places in the country, Philadelphia's known as one of the dirtiest cities because of trash that's thrown around because it seems to become the habit of people to just drop whatever they may be carrying and don't want with them. While other towns are known as very clean towns. It seems to me that a lot of that stems from our own enforcement on our own people. If we demand compliance, with good manners, with good behavior, that's the step number one that's required to obtain good manners and good behavior. But if the City officially indicates by its actions that it doesn't really care and it doesn't much matter, I think that's a signal to people that nobody's caring, and people get careless. I think it's important that L&I ought to be the lead model for making sure that there's full code compliance with respect to conditions under which people live in homes, under which businesses 1862 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET do business. And I mean fair; I don't mean watching every little thing and trapping people into bad situations, I mean a wholesome approach in which we emphasize concern about how things are being taken care of, how we live as neighbors together, how we do business together, and how we protect environment, because I think L&I has a very heavy responsibility with respect to making sure that people of Philadelphia obtain the benefits of a beautiful and clean environment. And so I'm urging -- I don't want to take too much time at this hearing because I do appreciate that the L&I Department currently is at least politer, more polite with respect to the requests of the environmental community -- that's the citizens who really make the environment a main part of their life. You're much more polite currently, you're much more considerate currently than we have been used to in the past, but we think that the good intentions have to become realized in facts. And I hope that next year when you're here and I ask you the same question, Commissioner, how many illegal signs have been taken down? you're 1863 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET going to be able to give me a number that goes well into the hundreds, maybe the thousands. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
And thank you. We would like to keep up the progress on the license tag portion. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
'Cause that's the easiest way to enforce and to make sure that nobody makes gets such a license tag on their sign unless they have proved beyond any kind of a question that they have the right to have that sign at that location and that all of the fees that are required and the revenue from it that belongs to the City has been paid. Thank you, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you, sir.
And we do appreciate the good intentions. We think that Mr. D'Orio has done an outstanding job, and I know both your Deputy Commissioner are very cooperative whenever we call upon them for anything, and we think that's the beginning that's needed to set the right tone. Thank you. 1864 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you, and we'll keep you in the loop as far as the identifying tag.
You're welcome. Gentlemen, thank you again. COMMISSIONER MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you.
The last department to testify is the Water Department.
My schedule indicated that the Streets Department was scheduled to testify today at --
Well, I'm going to be asking that another date be reset because a number of people had set the target date for 1:30. There are great concerns about the recycling program.
The Commissioner was here; in fact, I think he may have left a brochure on everyone's desk. Is it on your desk, 1865 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman?
I don't see it, but we have many, many questions to ask --
We will be happy to have him called back at a later date.
Okay. And if I may ask that we could have that time set in advance so that people that are concerned could be notified.
In fact, I believe he gave the date of March the 18th, when they're going to be doing a PR regarding recycling, and he indicated that what they will be doing is hopefully having recycling and trash collection on the same day; however, we will call them back.
No. March 18th, they are going to be starting a PR program about recycling.
Well, I would like to ask that they be called back long before that because it may affect the programming.
We will certainly look at the calendar, Councilman, and see 1866 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET if we can call them back before the 18th. It would appear that every day, we have very lengthy lists.
Commissioner, thank you so much for your patience. We do have a copy of your testimony, so we will give your testimony to the stenographer, and it will be included in the transcript in its entirety. If you would simply abbreviate, we'd appreciate it. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much. Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to testify on behalf of the Water Department's operating budget for Fiscal 2003. Helping me today in my testimony on my extreme right is Susan Lior, Deputy Commissioner of Information Science, and Technology. To my immediate right is Bernard Brunwasser, Deputy Commissioner for Finance and Administration. To my left is Richard Roy, Deputy Commissioner for Operations. The Water Department requests $215.2 million for its operation. In addition, we 1867 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET request $247.8 million for other activities such as those supporting the Water Revenue Bureau, other central agencies, as well as paying the debt service on our revenue bonds. Last September, for the first time since 1995, we put into effect a three-year, three-stage rate increase averaging for regular residential customer about 2.8 percent; whereas for the commercial sector, it was a little bit higher, and this was as a result of reallocation of storm water charges, which more equitably face the charges on the commercial sector higher than that of the residential sector. I'll very briefly touch on a couple of the highlights on the Water Department. Of course, we take great pride in these particular activities. First, of all I want to show you that our drinking water is very safe. In fact, it is about six times safer than the standards required by federal and State agencies. We've been getting awards on it on the water side; in fact, we got an award from the Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies, a gold award for competitiveness and benchmarking activities. 1868 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET And all three of our waste-water treatment plants received a gold award last year from Association of Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies, and two of these plants -- one of them was going to get a platinum award, which really means for five full years, they have had perfect compliance with regulations, and that when you consider thousands of tests and thousands of parameters that are tested by each of these plants on an annual basis, that's really an amazing accomplishment. I've been with the City for over three decades, and even I'm impressed with that kind of a performance. There are a number of other improvements that we've made that are in the main testimony, but as you mentioned, in the interest of time, perhaps I can stop here and answer the questions that you might have or address any kinds of concerns or matters of interest to you. Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner. In your testimony, you mentioned that the Water Fund has various programs and special discounts to help the low-income customers. What 1869 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET are those programs? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: They're attached to our appendix. One of the programs is Water Revenue Assistance Programs that is managed by the Water Revenue Bureau. They give certain grants to people to pay their water bills. There's a program called "HELP," which is the Homeowner Emergency Loan Program that provides loans to homeowners without any interest charges at all to repair their underground infrastructures such as their laterals or service pipes. We also provide a percent discount to 14 the senior citizens who are income-eligible at the 15 time. 16 There is also a discount provided to 17 nonprofit agencies such as the hospitals and 18 educational facilities. 19 We also support a Utilities Emergency 20 Services Fund, which we fund, and they provide to 21 low-income folks some grants in order to pay their 22 bills, and we have a matching grant for that to 23 reduce their bills. 24
I'm sorry, I 25 didn't quite understand the last one. You call it 1870 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET the "Emergency Services Fund?" COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Yes. This is the Utilities Emergency Services Fund (UESF), and it's administered by a nonprofit agency. It serves about 3500 customers, and it's a matching fund that we provide, and details are given in the Appendix 2. It's a grant program to provide shut-off up low-income customers at or 175 percent of the poverty level and provides up to $500 every other year, $250 of UESF grant, that's the Utilities Emergency Services Fund Grant, and that's $250 that comes from the matching funds from the Water Department. And this essentially keeps the low-income customers in supply of the water.
And where is that information; is that in your testimony? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: That is an Attachment No. 2, I believe. Yes, it's Appendix No. 2 to the testimony.
Fine, thank you. Commissioner, you indicate that approximately 32 percent of water being pumped is not billed. Can you elaborate on that statement, 1871 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET please. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: There are a number of uses of water which are not billed; for instance, for firefighting purposes. We do not meter that water and we do not bill it on any particular quantity level. We also provide to a number of the commercial and industrial folks permits to use hydrants for their business purposes, such as the construction activity, when they need water at a construction site or to keep the dust down, etc. And that particular water is not metered and it's not billed, although when they get the permit for use of the hydrant, we do charge a hydrant permit for that purpose.
What do you charge? COMMISSIONER ROY: My name is Richard Roy, Commissioner of Operations. The charge depends on the length of time. It starts at 35 and then it goes up from there, whether it's a monthly -- I think the largest you can get is six months. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: And there is 1872 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET other unbilled water that is some of the leaks that occur. If there's a water main break or the water is pumped out of the plants, it's obviously not measured and we use that.
Commissioner, please name the suburban wholesale customers that the Department has for both water and waste-water services. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Okay.
Also tell me, how do these rates compare with the rates we charge to our residential customers. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: The wholesale water customers are Bucks County Water and Sewer Authority and Philadelphia Suburban Company. Those are the two customers. We have ten waste-water customers that we sell on a wholesale places our services. Those are -- let's see... (Addressing colleague.) Do you remember them? With your permission Bernard Brunwasser might try to answer that.
Thank you. 1873 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET
Good afternoon, Madam President, Deputy Water Commissioner for Finance and Administration. We do have ten wholesale waste-water customers. I think somebody in the back will be able to help me if I forget anyone. Bucks Count is also a waste-water customer, Bensalem, Lower South Hampton, Abington, Lower Moreland, Lower Merion, Springfield, Upper Darby, Delcora, and I forget whether I mentioned Cheltenham.
How do these rates compare with the rates we charge to our residential customers?
These are charged on a wholesale basis. They are -- the service is sold in bulk, so to speak, and the rates in bulk are obviously different than the rates to individual residential customers. On a quantity basis, those rates would be somewhat lower, but they recover our full cost of service, just as our residential rates do. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: It's similar to, you know, when a large industrial comes in, they have a declining block rate, which we have in 1874 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET our rates, and they get a discount for the large-size meters that they have, 'cause of the quantity that they use. This is actually based on the cost of service, and whenever we set rates, we actually get a consultant to come in and reveal what the cost of service is for providing those, and that's what it's based on. On top of that, we do charge an administrative fee of about 10 percent on those.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, good afternoon -- COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Good afternoon.
-- to you and all of the deputy commissioners. Just a couple quick questions. On the first page of your testimony, you talk about safe drinking water, environmental protection, and reasonable rates. I just want to talk about the drinking-water component of that. There was testimony yesterday and there's been an ongoing issue for a couple of years now. 1875 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman Ortiz had highlighted this issue a couple years ago. I wanted to know what, if any, role the Water Department has had in monitoring the quality of the drinking water at our school buildings given the concerns highlighted a couple years ago about lead in the water. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Generally, Councilman, we do not go inside a property to monitor on a regular basis on a private property. We do monitor the quality of life in the district from 60 different points in the City, but we generally take it, you know, as close to the main as possible. In the case of the School District, we were invited by the EPA to take a look at that and to advise the School Board on, you know, how they should go about testing it, 'cause this has to be done privately by them by their own laboratories. So our Director of Bureau of Lab Services, Jeffrey Brock, has been in constant touch with the School Board and the EPA, giving them counsel on how to sample these and how to have it tested. Unfortunately, he's not in this room to give further details, but if there's a specific 1876 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET question, I'll try to answer that.
Well, I mean, I appreciate the update, but if you could touch base with him and maybe report to us through, the Chair, just what the recent contact has been, the -- any update on water quality or other activities that may be taking place in terms of getting a resolution to this particular issue, I would greatly appreciate it. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: All right. In fact, there is a consent decree that the School Board signed with the Health Department, so we are actually counseling both the Health Department and the School Board in resolving this particular issue.
Okay. The second issue is the use of septic systems throughout the City. You know from your experience and -- is this your first time here since you had almost lost complete track of your senses -- (Laughter.)
-- and had an out-of- body experience over at PGW? Is this your return to the reality of City government? 1877 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Yes, this is my first return to this Council since then.
Commissioner, welcome. We have missed you. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you.
Many good things did happen during your absence. Dick Roy and I have bonded closer in our relationship. (Laughter.)
And I know that he and many others are very glad about your return, because they can now pawn all of those calls off on you when I and some others call you. (Laughter.)
We've had in our ongoing relationship a lot of discussion and some resolution, in many instances, to particular septic-system issues, at least in the district that I represent, but today I wanted to ask on a more citywide basis, how many do we have, or do know of? And, second, do we have a citywide plan to reduce in a targeted fashion annual reduction in the number of septic systems throughout the City; and naturally, conversely, getting more and more people 1878 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET on the municipal water system or the municipal sewer system? I know we have other people who are not on municipal water because they have wells still in the City of Philadelphia. Can you tell me what we're doing to get more people on the system. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: The septic systems are actually monitored and regulated by the Health Department. We -- when we are advised of a failing septic system, if it is cost-effective to go and provide this service over there, we go forward and do it, sometimes even when it's not cost-effective because nothing else is available at the time. The Water Department has not actively gone out and sought those places to provide municipal services. The capital cost of doing so is rather high. So we would work with the folks who have failing systems to see how we can assist them in getting them into the municipal system.
Okay. With regard to the rates, I saw the newspaper story and then -- which was a longer version, and you have a shorter 1879 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET version here in your testimony. It was certainly a great pleasure to see that while in some instances, we're ranked low on some listings for various things, but it was certainly a pleasure to see the Philadelphia Water Department down at the bottom or I think maybe second from the bottom on the newspaper listing of water and sewer charges throughout the entire area. And I don't know if we'll get people necessarily moving back because we have lower water rates, but it is certainly not one of the things driving anyone anywhere. So first let me commend you for keeping the rates lower than the surrounding counties and townships and authorities. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you.
To what do you attribute the significantly lower water and sewer rates in Philadelphia as compared to surrounding jurisdictions? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Well, there are a number of factors that contribute to that. The number-one factor is the folks sitting behind me and the 2000 folks working on the streets. They're very efficient and very dedicated. 1880 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET Number two, we do not pay taxes like the private sectors do, and many of the surrounding counties have private companies that pay taxes. There is then a return on their investment that they need to take into account. So those factors add up. And besides that, and at least at this juncture, while the sprawl hasn't quite spread, the underground infrastructure has to go much longer distances to provide a limited number of properties. So all of those factors contribute to their higher, you know, costs.
One last question. Tell me about the quality of the water here in Philadelphia. And are there -- I mean, I know that, you know, every entity has various measurements of performance, there are all kinds of recognition programs. Tell me a little bit about how the quality of Philadelphia water compares with either nearby jurisdictions or others where these comparisons are made and... COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: In terms of 1881 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET quality of water from the health perspective, I think ours is as good as it can get. In some areas, they may not be using as much chlorine; for instance, if it's well water, etc. It depends on how much disinfectant that they use, so it's a taste and odor issue more than actually the quality of water from the health perspective is concerned. And I think we're better than many here, as I mentioned in earlier testimony, six times better than what the regulations require. As far as the turbidity is concerned, we are 0.06 nephelometric turbidity units, the standard for the federal government standard, which went into effect. The new one that went into effect in January is 0.3. So we're five times better already. So I think the people in Philadelphia should rest assured that they're getting the best quality water that they can get anywhere.
Okay. Last question. From a business standpoint and actually a possible revenue-enhancement, have you taken a look at -- we've jokingly had the conversation about the possible bottled Philadelphia water showing up on 1882 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET shelves in various stores and supermarkets. Have you given further thought to the prospect of actually getting into the water sales business? COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: We've sort of talked about it every so often. We do sell, as you know, to the Coca Cola Company, which bottles our water -- it's called DiSani (ph) I believe. That is Philadelphia water, but they probably put it through some filtration process, (indiscernible) carbon or something to remove the chlorine, and then they very likely add ozone because ozone does last a long time in sealed bottled water. It would be an expensive project, we would have to put a business plan together and market it. So, you know, it would be another burden, but we can look at that as a business expense. But because we feel our water, drinking water, is the best that you can get, we haven't been very, you know, enthusiastic about bottling it. Now, Dic Roy is itching to say about it so I'll let him go. So while I was away, perhaps he had some other plans. COMMISSIONER ROY: I would just like to 1883 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET add that we have followed some of our colleague water companies around the country that have tried this and it has not been a success. You start to get away from your core business, and unless you're experienced in marketing and putting -- you got to get a large distribution area in order for it to be, you know, a money-maker for you.
I understand. COMMISSIONER ROY: We may try to hook up with some bottling companies to put together some PWD bottles of water that could be used for special events, particularly City events, that sort of thing.
Sure, I understand. Maybe it is something for a more entrepreneurial individual or entity to be involved with but, I mean, I do think it is -- if we have good-quality water and, as you said, even if it's, you know, putting it in bottles with our sticker on it just to either give away in the summertime, I understand, Commissioner, I don't want to give you a heart attack about giving away the water, but, you know, there might be some circumstances that -- I mean, we have a good product, let's take a little 1884 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET pride in it and figure out a way to better promote the good product that we have. So thank you. I enjoy the working relationship with the Department and look forward to working with you on some more exciting project. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much.
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
I just wanted to thank the Commissioner for part of his past record of being responsible for the Gas Works. Sometimes when it's been very difficult to contact people there on emergency conditions, I've reached the Commissioner if it's late at night or on a weekend at home, and he's already been very gracious, and although he had no responsibility whatsoever, he cooperated fully and the conditions were remedied. And it's the kind of public service that I think can help make Philadelphia a really outstanding city, and I wanted to publicly express that. 1885 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET I don't always agree with the policies of the Water Department on the bills, but I guess you hear that from everybody, but I do want to say I've always found the Water Department very cooperative on any questions that are raised ever since the Commissioner has been Commissioner, and to that, he is my PGW Commissioner as well. (Laughter.)
And I wanted to personally thank him for the extra duty that he so graciously absorbed from time to time in the past. Thank you, Commissioner.
I'm sure he's much happier being regarded as the Water Commissioner, Councilman. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much. And I have to say actually all of this goes to the success of the folks who stand behind me and support me; they're the ones who really do the hard work.
That's great. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? 1886 3/5/02 WHOLE - CONT'D. FY '03 OPERATING BUDGET (No further questions.)
Thank you so much. COMMISSIONER KISHINCHAND: Thank you very much.
The Committee will stand in recess until Monday, March the 11th, at 9:30. Thank you. (Proceedings end at 2:14 p.m.) - - - 1887 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia's meeting of the Committee of the Whole of Tuesday, March 5, 2002, are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. RE: Ordinance No. 020001 _______________________________, Josephine Cardillo Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)