COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEES ON FINANCE AND TRANSPORTATION - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friday, May 16, 2003 10:00 a.m. - - - RESOLUTION NO. 020607 - Resolution authorizing the City Council Committees on Finance and Transportation to hold hearings to examine S.E.P.T.A.'S Market Street Elevated Reconstruction Project in West Philadelphia, its fiscal impact on local businesses, and its overall effect on the community and the City at large. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Chair COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607
Good morning. Thank you all for your patience. This is a continuation of a hearing with regard to a resolution introduced with regard to S.E.P.T.A., the problems that we've had with regard to the construction project that goes from 46th to 63rd Street, how it affects the businesses in particular and the community in general. We'll ask the Clerk to read the Resolution.
Resolution Number 020607. Resolution authorizing the City Council committees on finance and transportation to hold hearings to examine S.E.P.T.A.'s market street elevated reconstruction project in west Philadelphia. It's fiscal impact on local businesses and it's overall effect on the community and the City at large. THE COURT: Thank you very much. We note that we have the General Manager, Faye L. Moore, here; and we're very happy to welcome her this morning. Always happy to have Frances Jones and always happy to have other representatives from S.E.P.T.A. 3 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Before we begin the discussion of the questions we listed at the end of our program and ask Miss Moore to come forward, is there anyone here from the community who did not get to speak last week and who would like to do so? Please come forward. Is there anyone else? We will permit that testimony, and then we will go directly into the questions and the response part of our hearing, as we said we would last time. Thank you, Mr. Traylor. We see you are here as well. Francis Jones. Thank you for all other members. So please come forward, take the witness seat, identify yourself for the record. There are three of you. And then we will go into our question and answer part. Good morning. Please identify yourself to the record and begin your testimony.
I'm going to let my husband go first. 4 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607
I was involved in the project I guess since it began in '98. I was one of the residents that resides within the Zip Codes that they were asking anybody that seeked employment on the...
...that seeked employment on that project. I attended the meetings from 1998 to 2000 until I realized that I needed to be a union card-carrying member. At that time I had stressed that -- I had stressed to the people in charge that, you know, you had wasted my time for two years, coming back and forth attending meetings and not even knowing that I had to become a union member. My question to S.E.P.T.A., since they took my name, address, and Social Security 5 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Number, how much money did they make off of my information? Because I was attending the meetings; I was attending the workshops; they were introducing us to people that seemed to want us to sign up in training programs which had nothing to do with the project. At one time from, I guess, 2000 to 2003, I was contacted off and on about we might have a training program and we might offer you a stipend to come, so they kept me on the list, on the mailing list, to find out later on at a meeting that there was two different types of programs. One was just strictly an academic program, getting us ready to take a union test; and the other one was a program where it was a 20-week program which trained you to do four different types of trades. My background is that I have knowledge of plumbing, electrical, heating and air conditioning, and carpentry. And I was wondering why couldn't I just test out in these programs instead of wasting 20 weeks of my time coming out, 6 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 of my pocket, going -- you know, spending money out of my pocket, going to locations where I can just -- I feel can just test out. Now, back in 2002 I took a test to get into one of the unions, one of the trade unions. And I'd just like to let the public know: It's nothing more than just a high school equivalency test. There's no major math that you have to know to pass that test. I mean, if you just sat down and took it, you wouldn't believe how easy it is to take a union test. But like all tests you take, there's a certain portion that they always stack against you; and of course, this test had a section in it that they did stack the odds, where the questions that they seek for a particular part of it, there's no way that you could come up with an answer. So, again, since I attended the hearing last week, and I heard S.E.P.T.A. say that they had a number of 540 applicants, and 190 were card-carrying members, I am not of that number that was a card-carrying member. And I was just strung along to the point where -- And I'm talking 7 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 years out of my life. I was 42 when this project started. And now --
No, I'm not because of the way -- I could -- I could have been if the people that they contracted -- that contacted us in the beginning knew what they were doing. And I think that was --
Well, I think that -- I think we'll respond, but in order to be hired on these jobs, you still have to be licensed in your respective fields. And I think that what we wanted -- What I wanted to do is deal with hiring as a whole separate issue. And I'm even prepared to continue this hearing, if we have to, to deal with all of the M.B.E. or minority business enterprise, D.B.E., disadvantaged businesses and W.B.E. for women, to deal with the whole issue of minority participation. But that much, that much is around the City. You've got to be licensed in order to be hired on these jobs. That much I know. 8 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 So, I mean, maybe if you took the test, if you applied to get your license, if you did classes that would take you there, you know... But for the jobs around the City, they ask you to be licensed. And that's an issue that we have to deal with, and one... For example, in Mantua we were doing a Lucien Blackwell Mantua revitalization project. We just did a job training program. So you have to find one way or another to get the license, whether it be a so-many week training program or whether you take the test. But those are just in anything, you know. You've got to get your license.
I understand what you're saying, but they did not come to us saying we had to be licensed. And for two years, starting in 1998, they just needed numbers to appear at these different sites to have seminars or workshops in that event. I mean, I understand exactly what you're saying. But for those people that are in charge, they should have known that and just come 9 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 right out front and said: Hey, if you don't have a license, you have to obtain a license and come back. I would have respected that and went on, you know. And even to the point where I've been to school and became certified and have different licenses in different things; and even to the point of trying to get a job for the City on an entry level, I mean, what more can we do when they just say to you you need experience. But here, you done spent two, three, four years of your life in a school, paying thousands of dollars for a entry level job; and the only thing they have to say is, you need experience. I mean, it's all not fair. But that's just like -- that's how I'd like to end it because...
Thank you, Mr. Clouden. And I'd also like to note that Councilman Goode, who's head of Transportation -- As all of you know, this is a joint Finance/Transportation Committee hearing. He is not present but certainly is represented in the 10 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 person of Solomon Jones, who is his person; and we're glad to have him. Thank you, Mr. Clouden.
My name is Gail Clouden. What my husband didn't say -- and I'm going to piggyback on him. He didn't say he retired from the phone company at 40 years old. That's what he didn't say to you. So when he talks about wasting his years, he truly means that, especially when we heard, I think at the last meeting, people are talking about four more years. My husband didn't need the job, need the job like some people do. And that's why I needed to say the things that I'm going to say today. I have a business at 4601 Market Street, and I live on 53rd Street, and I shop on 61st Street. I have the opportunity to witness 11 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 the separate and unequal practices of S.E.P.T.A. firsthand. Before I go into what I wrote there, I need to say the S.E.P.T.A. project has reminded me of South Africa, the vision that I've had for years of South Africa. We are not slaves. This is not the 1700s, this is not the 1800s, 1955, or 1962. We are not begging, and we shouldn't have to boycott S.E.P.T.A. You have interrupted our lives, you have interrupted the community on a daily basis, and then you go home. You continue to give jobs to white companies, to whites so that their quality of life improves, and you seem to believe that that's okay, that it's okay to do that, that we should be satisfied with nothing or the few little pieces that we get. You feel that it's okay to treat us as second class citizens, and that's not okay. It is not enough for a few of us to get while others don't, to keep others in line or somehow make them feel they should be grateful. As I said, I have the opportunity, 12 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 and I'll say it again, to witness the separate and unequal practices. My husband and I take young people from here to Alabama to revisit the past. And darn if it doesn't feel like the past in Philadelphia in the year 2003. And it hurts me to sit here and have to say that. We just took children on a black college tour where we continue to tell children: You can be anything you want to be. And there's a part of us that hurts because we know it's not true. VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: Take your time.
A. people representing our community, I thought. I didn't question anything. I just listened. I attended several other meetings over the past four years. And at each one, there were people from my community voicing concerns. And I 13 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 just listened. A. employees that seemed to have very good jobs with power positions that I'm sure make good salaries telling African American men, sometimes in what I felt was the most insulting ways how unqualified they were, without ever using those words. They talked about how our men couldn't -- how the men in our community couldn't pass urine tests, how they didn't have driver's license, how they couldn't -- one of the last meetings -- read a ruler, while the men attending just asking for an opportunity, sometimes an opportunity to bid, didn't seem to lack any of those things that had been mentioned, nor did they have any problems that they spoke of. It seem that had no one cared. A. sisters, all of our men don't have drinking and drug problems. I continued to attend. Some morning workshops were given. I attended one at 3801 Market, First District Plaza, where I heard more complaints from a different group in my community. And now there was a different set of African 14 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Americans hosting. I continued to listen. There was still no real help for my community. Sometimes my husband and I would receive three, four, and five notices and other times none. We would see a flyer at 4601 Market that had been placed there that day, the day of the event, or the day before the scheduled event. Sometimes a pile of flyers after the event would be placed there. A. project, because I think a grave disservice is being done to my community. A. as they took the opportunity to stand in front of people from my community at Kirkbride. I believe at that gathering it may have been 200 to 300 angry, annoyed, and curious residents, businesses owners, and potential employees, and of course security. A. gatekeepers. Now the group had widened. It was a Hispanic, it was an African American male, it was 15 5/16/03 - Res. No. A. contracts. They were talking about what they had done and that they were willing to offer training. There was one man that my husband spoke to and my husband could test out. My husband was offered to be in a graduation ceremony, as if he had been through the training program. I'll go back to that night again. After everyone was introduced at that evening event at Kirkbride, we were informed that we could not ask questions until the end. There was one man that kept trying to speak or ask questions, and he was told that they would take questions later. I don't know if he laughed or was asked to leave. I don't know because we were separated. People were asked to go to different rooms based on concerns. Again, I say, separate and still unequal. We never really got to listen to other people's issues and concerns, even though they all affect us. I have listened patiently to opportunists, to road blockers, to gatekeepers and 16 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 neutralizers for four years. And the last I heard the project may go four more years and possibly more. I've listened enough to know that I need to say something, and that I'm qualified now, after listening. A. administrators: You can't continue business as usual by using the poor and the uneducated and putting the educated against the uneducated. You can't continue by putting our men against our women, by putting our community against one another blocks by blocks or groups by groups. You can't continue by giving a few businesses resources while others go under. It's wrong. It can't continue because it's wrong. A. employees, business owners that have received a contract, I ask you if it's worth it to lie, to lie at night after night, sleepless, and wondering what lie, what half truth or untruth you will tell today or this week. Is it enough to get and not share?
Is it enough not to care to do your best for your community? 17 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 To all of you, I say, to refurbish the el is not a bad thing, but to do it at the expense, the ill health, the detriment of my community is wrong. To refurbish the el system so that white riders moving back to our City and riding through our City will feel safe and secure is not right. To make them feel better at my community's expense is just plain wrong, and I say don't do it. No one has talked about the electric poles outside of businesses and people's homes on Market Street. They're about three feet from their windows and doors. No one has spoken about health issues that may come from toxins or the poles or the electrical surges. I say you can't holistically destroy my community. It's wrong. It's wrong. And if you take part in that, then you're wrong as well. , you owe us. You owe our ancestors. You owe those that have walked before you to stand up and do what's right and 18 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 stop lying because it's the right thing to do. And I thank you. )
Thank you, Miss Clouden. Thank you. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record. Thank you.
Good morning. My name is Jimmy Johnson. I live in the 5400 --
And I live in the 5400 block of Market Street. My wife has a steak shop. I have a landscaping business. What's going on over there is, S.E.P.T.A. has all of Market Street torn up. Now there's nowhere to park. And then you have the Parking Authority coming through and they're writing tickets. This is mainly my beef. They're writing tickets up. And they're riding around in trucks. 19 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Last year it was straightened out. This year they have started back doing it again. And that's the biggest problem in that block. There's nowhere to park unless you going to put them up on top of the el. And I have a ticket, and she has a ticket.
I believe we have somebody from the Parking Authority. Mr. Dixon. We met with him in this regard, and we're going to -- That's one of the questions that we talked about, to which we will respond, so Mr. Johnson, if you'll wait around, we'll try to deal with that before you leave.
Basically, that was my same concern. I've been there roughly about eight months, and nobody's ever come by to clean the street. And the other day I received a violation 20 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 for having my car parked in front of my door.
Lynic Mixon. Lynic is L-y-n-i-c. Mixon: M as in Mary, i-x-o-n.
-- we will try to deal with these issues before we leave out of this Chamber this morning.
Thank you. Mr. Jerry Jordan, Debra McGregor. And Reverend Barnes, let me ask you: Would you like to testify or would you like to wait until we get to the faith-based part of the discussion?
To Council. I have a restaurant at 5211 Market Street, the West Philadelphia.
And I am very, very appalled of the lack of consideration that we are getting at 52nd Street. I went from $7,000 a week, and I have receipts to prove it, down to $2,000 a week. I was open seven days a week. Business got so bad I had to close two days a week. I have 12 employees. As I say, nowhere to park, nowhere at all, north, south, east or west. And all of my business mostly comes from driving. And S.E.P.T.A. says once this project gets through, it's going to be good for the neighborhood and for the people. But there's one thing that S.E.P.T.A. forgot. You have 80 percent of the S.E.P.T.A. riders that don't even shop on Market Street. You have about 20 percent that will shop on Market Street or go to the restaurants on Market Street. Other than that, they're not 22 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 coming around at all. And I think since S.E.P.T.A. knew about this project, I believe between '97 or '98, what they was going to do, they could have had the government or someone to come out and survey the area, not just go on the word or hearsay based. No one ever been out there to survey. No one from the state, no one from the City been out there to survey or nothing. And we all pay taxes, like everybody else. And there's one thing I really can't understand. The Federal Government -- It was just on the news two days ago. And I appreciate people going to school, going to college. The government is giving $3,000 grant -- don't have to pay it back -- grant. The state, Governor Rendell has $17 million that he's giving grants around Pennsylvania and Philadelphia. The City of Philadelphia has had a lot of companies come into Philadelphia, gave them tax breaks, they gave them grants. Federal Government bailed out the airline. Oh, we got to keep this airline running. But nobody come up to 52nd and Market -- this has been going on for a 23 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 year -- and said anything. And once they finish digging at 52nd and Market, say for two or three months, they coming back again because they have to put the poles in the center of the street, so we going to be tied up again. And I have letters from the bank that I put $200,000 to remodel that place. It holds a hundred people. And it cost me $1,000 a week to put in the bank for the loan. I have a letter of intent of foreclosure. And I think that S.E.P.T.A. is responsible, because number one, we own the bricks of our buildings. We do not own the sidewalks and we do not own the streets. So I think that we should be able to get some kind of relief or something, not S.E.P.T.A. saying we're going to do what we can do and we're going to try. We been hearing this for over and over and over again. It's time for something to be done on this.
Mr. Jordan, let me thank you. And I thank you for keeping in 24 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 communication with us.
And certainly we want to work with you. We can not afford to have you close. And we want to work with you...
...personally to make sure that that doesn't happen. It's not fair. It's not right. And we want to work with you to make sure that doesn't happen. We're going to deal with all these issues one by one.
And as it affects various individuals, feel free to raise your hand and come back, so that I know you want to respond to that specific issue. Because my staff and I tried to meet with the Streets Department, the Parking Authority, to try to deal with some of these issues before we came today. So we need you to give us feedback as to whether or not, Mr. English, it will work and Reverend Barnes. 25 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607
And just one last thing. I would appreciate it in the near future if City Council can try to get something that a lot of the businesses can have a break from the taxes for a while, like they do with the other businesses. And I know this for a fact: That would be also a help.
Well, we've contacted the Mayor in that regard to the businesses on the S.E.P.T.A. project. I don't think we received a response. But we did that some time ago and said that the businesses were in trouble. So we'll follow up with the Mayor to see what we can do specifically with regard to the el project.
Thank you. My staff, please note that. Thank you very much. Is Debra McGregor there? Then William Hamlin. Mr. Hamlin. And finally Greg Spearman. And then we'll go to question and answer, just three more individuals. Thank you. MS. McGREGOR: Good morning, 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Councilwoman Blackwell.
Good morning. MS. McGREGOR: Councilman Nutter, and other Members. My name is Debra McGregor. I'm a retired physician. I found myself living at 63rd and Market, after downsizing a life and cashing in a 401-K. I decided to stay because the neighborhood is vibrant, the young people go to school. They have two-parent households. Everyone is contributing to the neighborhood in a way that you would want to be a part of.
Excuse me one moment. Let the chair note that Councilman Nutter is here. And as you know, he has that part on the north side of 60th to 63rd. And we also note Councilwoman Tasco's office is represented as well. Thank you. Please continue. MS. McGREGOR: Thank you. Thank. Having served in the Federal 27 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Government, I've been mindful of large projects and their implementation. And as I became a community member and watched the dispersal of resources, it did not make sense, the amount of money that is being used for this entire project and the types of symbols that are used to explain their dispersal of funds for the community. Point in fact: When we asked for an example of the use of funds for the community, we were told that donuts were bought by the vendor for the meetings, that photographers were hired for the meetings, the sound system for the meetings. We had marketing campaigns that looked more like church raffles. And again, the symbols of their involvement with the community don't match the amount of funds. In previous testimony, I have asked for what I've described as a forensic assessment of the project. I want to make sure that all parties here know that's not an internal assessment. That's an assessment done by an independent organization to ask the questions that 28 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 individuals cannot ask en mass and get coherent answers to. We would like coherent answers to where is the money going. With regards to reparation and the description of Congress -- House of Representative Chakka Fattah's involvement, we were told that there would be a line item budget -- a line item in the budget for these matters. With little investigation, we realize that Chakka Fattah is a Democrat in a Republican House. He has opposed the President's war and still is opposing the President's war. And as a community we ask: How much influence will he have to get his line item assignment to the community through the machinery of the Federal Government? So I've mentioned globally a forensic assessment; more specifically, an assessment of our likelihood of getting any relief through the Federal Government. And finally, with regards to the wonderful statement made by the woman who sat in this chair just a few minutes ago about our S.E.P.T.A. sisters, we really would like to have 29 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 an assessment of the community relations skill set that is represented by those people put in front of us during community meetings. We are circled, almost like a volleyball game, with high-paid S.E.P.T.A. management engineers and technical staff, with answers to individual questions but no coherent strategy for this community. So we would like at this point to have an assessment of the community relations plan. We would like to involve the City Planner, Rick Redding, for that section of the town. And we'd like to see what the overall plans and goals are for the outcome after the S.E.P.T.A. project is completed. And if, in fact, the current staff is not able to do that, we ask Council to request independent consultants to help us get this coherent approach to our needs. Thank you. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. William Hamlin. We also have some information that 30 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 we received last evening with regard to -- with regard to community government relations; we'll make available to you. We have some copies of some things that we are happy to share with you. Mr. Hamlin.
My name is William Hamlin. I'm a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania's Master's Architecture Program and card-carrying member of that graduating class. I'm the person that did the original layout for 52nd Street with the canopies, also 11th Street el station, sidewalks, and concourse, and the prototype system signage. Also did the Cleveland Transit Authority's -- Cleveland Transit Administration's upgrade for the A.D.A. requirements, and the drafting or the CAD implementation of the Traffic Management Control Center for the Atlanta Olympics. I live at 4538 Sansom Street. I've been trying to do -- I've been trying to find out how to be involved in the S.E.P.T.A. project for almost three years now. And I've done my own little research. 31 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 What I went and got was the best procurement manual or got -- best procurement policies, like the manual for the implementation of the contract. And what I'm most concerned about is the lack of business development in the West Philadelphia area and the impact areas four blocks south and north of Market Street. In... In 4 -- In Chapter 4 on , Chapter 7, there are guidelines as to how to include maximum amount of D.B.E. participation and says, and I quote: The recipients must obtain as much possible D.B.E. participation needed to meet their overall goals through race neutral measures. Race neutral measures include such activities as training, technical assistance, bonding assistance, business development, or mentor protege programs. Breaking contracts up into small pieces, small businesses can readily perform and award private contracts D.B.E. through regular competitive process. One type race neutral measure will 32 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 be the prompt payment provision which will require overall -- over -- will be required for all subcontractors, D.B.E.s and non D.B.E.s alike. In Virginia, as a goal -- as a model case, they went to a public housing development and provided 40 percent of the contract dollars to members of the public housing project, to build Section 8 housing. In the S.E.P.T.A. contract, to the best of my knowledge, there's not one percent of that contract has gone to -- that's to the best of my knowledge at this point -- not one percent of those contracts have gone to people in the impacted area four blocks north or south of the Market Street elevated line. And I'm wondering why, in terms of the overall contract, we are not being able or promoted into the participation of this contract which will have a tremendous economic benefit to my community. This is the community where I was raised in and continue to live in. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hamlin. Thank you for your work on 52nd 33 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Street and in our City overall. (Applause.)
Jackie Willis, and then Greg Spearman. And then we'll go to question and answer. Thank you so much for coming in, and we thank you for your commitment and your husband's as well, to our community. Would you say your name and spell your last name for the stenographer.
I'm representing Wilcrest Products at 60th and Market Street. And please bear with me because I didn't know I would get this opportunity, and I'm pleased to have it, so I have kind of scanty notes, but I'll read from it.
W-i-l-c-r-e-s-t. We have been involved with the S.E.P.T.A. project since the very beginning. We were some of the first -- We've been in the 34 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 business community for 30 years at 60th and Market. And we were called in very early concerning this project. We were made certain -- many promises, and we have attended just about all of the meetings. So, some of my concerns are this: One thing, we have lost about 60 to 75 percent of our businesses. Deliveries have been difficult. And in the case of 60th and Market... It's just hitting 52nd street now, but we've been bearing with this since 2000, and it has really been hurtful to the businesses. In community meetings it was promised that three and four blocks at a time would not be blocked off. That didn't prove to be true. There were months when two and three -- at least a month sometimes, when two or three blocks would be blocked off at a time; many times side streets closed, and traffic not allowed to flow while work was taking place. At the beginning of the work, a great deal of time appeared to be wasted, from our observations; and we used to make observations. 35 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 They would dig up holes, fill them up, dig them up again. The Water Department was very uncooperative. They parked trucks on the sidewalk right in front of my business. They finished -- promised to finish shortly, and did not; left iron pipes in front of the store when they left at the ends of the day. We found workers moving from place to place without finishing the job, just wasting time, and tying up blocks not only with their big trucks but with their personal SUVs in places where we used to park; and we would have to go around on the side and park. Speaking in support of the community outreach people employed by S.E.P.T.A., they have been responsive in listening to our concerns, maybe because we were there at the beginning and we know a lot of them. Michael Tucker, Carol Smith have been especially helpful under Jim Baker. Frances Jones, Rhonda Johnson, Lily Clayette. All of them I could pick up the phone and call when urgent things were happening. 36 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 But it's bigger than them. Policies have to be changed way up there above them. Piles -- But they've been very helpful. Piles of dirt were -- And this is January '01. Piles of dirt were parked in front of the store. A ditch was opened in front of the store since before Christmas. These are just notes I took. And this January 24th the ditch was still there. John Lahan and Sons workers were very disruptive. One day we noticed from 11:00 to 2:00 p.m. the workers sat in the truck playing cards, holding up space from customers. When we mentioned it, well, they talked about the fact that, you know, workers have certain jobs to do and they have to wait until this job is done; but still, it just didn't look right. Now, in October 18, '02, we had a power surge. Now, P.E.C.O. took the responsibility; but somehow, I still feel those poles might have been responsible. It did about $2,000 to $3,000 worth of damage. It could have burned our building down if we hadn't caught it. P.E.C.O. only pays $500 for that. 37 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 So, in spite of all of this anguish and loss of money, loss of customers, this killed all of our machines, our security systems, and blew out the lights, cash register, and so forth. I had a good response. Frances Jones was responsible for me at least getting some movement from P.E.C.O. But $500 was just one machine lost. So, we have been suffering and we have been hurting. And I thank you for this opportunity. I didn't get it the first time because I was out of town and, you know, I wasn't ready. But thank you very much. These are just some incidents.
Thank you, Miss Willis. And we're happy to follow up in any way we need to, too, to continue to respond about any additional loss that you received. Certainly, if you let us know and get us some documentation, we'll follow up for you as well. We love your business for many, many, many years. Greg Spearman, I think it's your turn. And then we will go to our question and 38 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 answer. Sir, do you want to come up as well? And then I think we can go to our question and answer period and deal with these specific issues that you mentioned. Greg, do you want to defer? Do you want to be last? We have another gentleman here.
My comments regarding the resolution that I understand Councilman Goode is proposing -- I just want to first of all state my support, even though I actually live out in the suburbs, but I do take the el on a regular basis. I would like to just mention to 39 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 those who are affected, I do -- I absolutely sympathize with what you're going through. I am, however, not surprised at some of S.E.P.T.A.'s tactics. This is almost a modus operandi for this agency on many of its more recent construction projects, in particular the Rail Power Project which has inconvenienced regional rail riders. It wasn't until a few days before the most recent schedule change that people were notified that there would be weekday service disruption. I don't... At the very least, if they knew a few months in advance that there were going to be disruptions, it would have been nice if they said: Okay; these changes will take effect now; a few months down the road there will be other weekday service disruptions. That did not happen. So, I am seeing some parallels to that project and what's happening along Market Street. I mean, I have in the past stopped at some businesses along West Market. And I can -- And believe me, I certainly -- I can certainly respect what many of these people are going 40 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 through right now. And with regard -- And as I read in the paper recently, Council -- your colleague, Mr. Nutter, made some remarks about the escalator situation at 60th Street. I say with all due respects to Mr. Bond, I don't believe he is the most qualified person to be talking about escalators on S.E.P.T.A. property as I -- and as I referenced the incident that happened at Cecil B. Moore several years ago, in which he was one of the people responsible for basically botching that investigation up. Be that as it may, the last thing I want to say is offer advice to some of those of you from West Philadelphia who have testified here today, there is a S.E.P.T.A. Board of Directors meeting that will take place on Thursday at 3:00 p.m., S.E.P.T.A. headquarters, 1234 Market Street. My advice, as someone who has had other issues dealing with S.E.P.T.A., you may want to consider testifying briefly in front of the S.E.P.T.A. Board of Directors, because quite honestly, they are ultimately the ones who have 41 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 the power over who gets what -- over contracts and whatnot. So, I mean -- And most of those people, like myself, most of the people on that board live out in the suburbs. On the other hand, I don't think they really care about what happens in West Philly. VOICE IN THE AUDIENCE: What's that address again?
Thank you very much. He said at S.E.P.T.A. 1234 Market. Let me also note that we already mentioned Councilman Nutter, and we also mentioned Councilman Goode. We'd like to also mention that Councilman Cohen and Councilman Ortiz's office are also represented. All right. The final person, then, to testify today is Mr. Greg Spearman. Thank you.
Please 42 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 identify yourself and then spell your last name for our stenographer.
My name is Greg Spearman, S-p-e-a-r-m-a-n, a resident of West Philadelphia, and Market Street is my community, my immediate community. I do my best to shop in West Philadelphia on all the business corridors as much as possible. It is -- We all know we just got to hit Home Depot at sometime and some of the bigger companies, but I definitely try to shop as much as I can in West Philadelphia, to circulate the dollars. But what I wanted to talk about namely was the relief that everybody is asking for from S.E.P.T.A. And this is directly to S.E.P.T.A. And that's all it's all about, is sensitivity and relief. The neighbors in the community come in here. And you can go out on the street right now. We don't need no pictures. Go out there now and you'll see the disregard that the contractors and the workers have for the community. I mean, they just at will do what they want. 43 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 You got trash. You got old mud on 52nd and Market. They never cleaned it. They never cleaned it. And that's common sense in economic development. The better a business corridor looks, the more people come out to the business corridor. I think we need to institute working at night. 90 something percent of the businesses are closed at night. So, why would you close off intersections and cause this catastrophe during the daytime? I think working on Sundays should be included. I watched how 60th and Market intersection was shut down for a hole a little bigger than the size of a car, which was right up on the curb sides, which was -- essentially would have been about two parking spaces. They shut down the whole intersection at 60th and Market. And when we made complaints about it -- and you was there, Frances, too -- the engineer said it was something structural or something like that. I mean, for a hole, I mean, they had to do a nuclear blast, with a hole like that. 44 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 We got 52nd and Market that's actually been shut down now for God knows how long. And Mr. Jordan has testified to that. And we haven't seen any real construction except for the last couple -- since the last hearing that we had here last week, that they started doing any kind of real drilling out there in that hole. And I think the City, the state or the federal government and S.E.P.T.A. included need to seek building some kind of ramp or some kind of override for these intersections so that they can be open during the day. If we -- And I say the state and the federal because I think that maybe we could incorporate the Armed Services, because if it was a battle zone and it was a hole like that, they would have something to cover so that they can get these here trucks and whatnot across it. That's why I said the state and the Federal. And somebody needs to pay for this. Otherwise, we're going to have good businesses such as Wilcrest and Jordan's and many others going out of business. And this doesn't make no 25 sense. 45 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Is it going to be a cost? Sure, it's going to be a cost. But why they're not working in that hole? These intersections need to be open. Not every intersection, but definitely the intersections where the el stops. Because commerce is very important and these intersections are vital to the longevity of these businesses. And it doesn't make sense for one to close up intersections such as 52nd and Market and 60th Street and 56th Street for over a month, when you can use a little bit of common sense and have them open at least on business hours. And that's what I asked of you, Councilwoman: At least get an engineer in the City out there and see if it's feasible. See if it's feasible for either the City or S.E.P.T.A. Somebody has to take this on for the community's sake; and that's all I have to say. (Applause.)
Thank you very much. We'd now ask Ms. Moore to come forward, the General Manager of S.E.P.T.A. Again, 46 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 we're glad to have her here today so that we can deal with some of these specific issues. We will call on Reverend Barnes when we get to the faith-based section of the discussion. Now, I'll ask you to identify yourself for the record and those who are with you.
Good morning. I'm Faye Moore, S.E.P.T.A.'s General Manager. Here with me this morning is Dominic Sabatini. He's the... I guess the project lead for the Blue Line, which is the el project; and of course, you know Frances Jones. I do want to initially give my regrets or apologies for the last meeting. I couldn't attend. I am also desperately trying to ensure that we try to get $55 million so that we don't have to do some serious cuts, raise fares, and otherwise adjust services for S.E.P.T.A. I also need to mention that Mr. Bond, who was here with us earlier and was at the prior meeting, had a death in the family. He was here with us for a while, but he had to leave 47 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 so that he could attend the funeral of his grandmother, who lived to be one hundred years old.
Yes. So I do want to extend his regrets. Now, with that, we can handle it any way you'd like.
All right. We made some questions, and we also have questions with regard to the testimony of Mr. Traylor, First Deputy Commerce Director, who is with us today. So we'll begin with the first question we submitted to you. And we'll incorporate all that everyone here has mentioned. A. reopening parts of Market Street, Greg Spearman just talked about one solution with reopening parts of Market Street that are closed. And we received your response talking about the foundation of the street. But we likewise suggested -- and you can say your response in your own words. 48 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 But in a response to... We believe that if you -- We suggest if you came up with a shuttle, maybe a small shuttle like the Philly Flash or the Penn bus, the Lucies, a small shuttle that are lightweight, and maybe had a shuttle operative from 8:00 until 7:00 on weekdays and Saturday, and 8:00 to 4:00 on Sundays, that maybe it could help. So we've tried to come up with ways that we think we could try to provide some assistance. So we're suggesting that shuttle. Obviously, Mr. Spearman suggested another -- suggested -- made another suggestion with regard to placing plates down in the intersection. We're happy to go with either solution, but we thought that might be helpful. We also thought that with regard to another question... Maybe I'll make a few suggestions and let you respond to them because they're going to enter into other areas that we need to respond to. , just as in all work sites, could have lights placed and that that is your or the contractors' responsibility, not the City's. 49 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Because we're not talking about permanent lights. We're talking about lights like they have hanging here in this hallway when somebody's doing work. We need those areas lit because the pastor even talked last week about his church being robbed for the first time in all these years. So we're asking for that. A. to work with us on... And we've also met with the Parking Authority who's happy -- and they were given in writing a letter that says they won't ticket people. So we've been trying to work since we had our last meeting to try to help out. So they're happy to work with us, the Parking Authority, and just coordinate it with the Police Department. They're happy to do that. But we believe that you should be responsible for those lights that hang during the construction phase or your -- or the people doing the work. As I said, we're happy to try to deal with the Parking Authority. The other thing is parking. People 50 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 have continued to complain about parking. We've asked the Parking Authority to consider permanent parking during the length of this contract for areas like Haverford Avenue -- That's wrong -- 49th street along Haverford Avenue, where you have a very, very long stretch, maybe a mile and a half, to allow parking for people down there. We're also asking people who own land that has not been developed at 46th and Market to provide parking. We're also talking about a lot at about 56th -- tell me, staff, if I'm wrong -- about 56th and Market to be used for parking. There's also a lot we need to ask you all about. We call it Paul Lyons lot because he wanted to do a garden there. A. is dumping on that. You have mounds of dirt there at 54th and Market. And we're also talking about in the 6100 block of Market Street, where you already have arrows allowed to advertise even more so that people can park in the middle of the block. So we believe if we find these parking -- if we allow lots and parking sites 51 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 where the street is open in the middle of the street and advertise that, that we can do something about parking to accommodate people if we use a shuttle. We've also talked about a shuttle, either fixing the escalators or taking the shuttle out of the area. So you've either got to fix them or you need to have a shuttle there that will shuttle people.
And it would have to be several buses because you've got to allow people to be able to get their connection out of the site. So whether it goes to 34th or 30th street, they deserve to have the opportunity to make their connection. So for whatever time the el would come there, you've got to have a shuttle there or fix the escalator. We can live with it either way, but you can't not allow seniors and other people who are complaining that they can't get up those steps. So we need to have a shuttle there to help people who have to use the el. We read what you said about moving the fence back. And I'll say this to those who 52 5/16/03 - Res. No. A. proposals we got late yesterday some of their proposals. And one is to roll the fence back on 53rd street to Lindenwood for the 52nd Street businesses in about two weeks -- I've forgotten -- to move that fence back to open up that street more. So I need all of you to listen to me and then listen to them because we need you to tell us what you agree with, what you think is feasible and what you think isn't, because we've been trying to work on these issues as well. A. Police or them or somebody in policing the area. Just saying that owners can't be responsible for cleaning when they didn't create it, you've still got to do that. You've still got to make it possible for sanitation and private pickup. They can't get the trash done. 's responsibility to work that out, to clean the area, to allow trash to be picked up. 53 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Streets Department, we've met with them. Streets and Parking Authority are happy to take our suggestions, as long as we all agree that's what has to be done. And the... And we need to talk to... We're going to ask Reverend Barnes to come up to talk about that, his aspect, the part that affects churches, and with regard to Mr. Traylor, and then we can have a full discussion. We'll ask you to get ready to talk about a date for completion of the project, date it started and date when it's expected to be completed. We're also asking that the Information Center at 54th Street be manned with somebody who knows what they're doing. I mean, not just somebody who's going to sit there and open and close when they choose. A. Information Center, where you have someone who can do something, who can take complaints, who can report things right away, and who can respond to the community immediately; not now because it's not working. 54 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 There's also a Mayor's Office of Communication. 's Office. Mayor's Office of Community Services, on 58th and Market. And we're asking that you also keep them informed, as that is an arm further up the street. And then I'm talking to some of the suggestions, too, also made by Mr. Traylor. We believe in terms of the regular monthly business outreach and businesses given a week's notices, that that should not be questioned. But on all the communication suggestions, we're asking that my office, Councilman Nutter's office be involved in all of those discussions, as well as anything dealing well faith-based, obviously Reverend Barnes. But this monthly round table for City agencies. Any discussion on this project, we want to be included. And we believe that my colleague, because he represents part of the area, should likewise be included. And we disagree with the post construction plan being funded by the City. A. should deal with anything dealing with this project. 55 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 And finally, let me say that we've been contacted -- and I'll say this, too, for Miss McGregor. We've been contacted by Senator Arlen Spector, who is looking into the possibility of giving us some business subsidies as well. So, we've talked to many people. Last week, obviously, we heard reports from Congressman Brady and Congressman Fatah, but we were also contacted by Arlen Spector. S. Senator is trying to see what he can do to put something together to help our businesses. We hear what you're saying.
We know that we'll ask about of the life of this project, when it started and when it expects to end. But nobody can live two weeks without a check, much less six or seven years. So having said that, those are just some of our suggestions that we make. We have many of them in detail. And we're happy to have you respond. I know when they had a project, they had a project manager, a Mr. Lou Grizoglio.
Grizoglio, 56 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 who worked well with regard to some other -- He was a suggestion person, who worked well with community related projects, and other matters. And his name was suggested as someone who is very good with communicating what can happen. So having said that, we'll ask our first question. How long will the project be? We know it was delayed. When do you start? When do you expect to finish? And we're happy to begin the discussion. And when we get to the faith-based response, we'll ask that Reverend Barnes come up to testify and respond to that as well.
Councilwoman Blackwell, since Dominic is here and since he is our person for the project, we're going to sort of push the mike over to him so that he can address most of the concerns.
In terms of the project completion, the current schedule for substantial completion -- 57 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607
I'm sorry. The current scheduled completion, substantial completion date for the project is the ends of the year 2007.
The project with the AB buildings, I believe, started in the year 2001. I'm not positive about that.
Okay. Thank you. Would you like to respond with regard to opening parts of Market Street and with regard to the escalators?
Councilwoman, can I ask a question first? You mentioned a shuttle. Could you give me some idea of what the shuttle parameters or what the course would be. Are you talking going through the construction area? Are you talking the perimeter?
I think we could do both, because they're small and light 58 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 shuttles. If they run every minutes, maybe we could accommodate everyone, those who need to go to their cars, those who need to go to temporary parking places, as well as to allow them to shop in the stores. Now, my suggestion is that we bring it up as an idea today and a suggestion; and then when we continue the hearing until the next time, my attorney will give me a date.
For June 13 6th. June 6th. 14 That we then be ready to have a 15 formal reporting on the whole route. But it seems to me that that might be able to solve our problems. Or we have Mr. Spearman's suggestion on board to put metal plates down in the intersections. It seems to me if you come up with a little lightweight shuttle, it might be easy to run it every 15 minutes. People can get to their cars, they can park, they can shop in businesses. We have some activity. And it just might be a suggestion that might work. 59 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 I'd like to take credit for it but it wasn't mine. It was a gentleman from the Streets Department.
My suggestion was a little more than just putting metal plates down.
It was some kind of portable ramp that could be lifted up and taken away maybe with some type of backhoe.
Mr. Spearman is saying a portable ramp that could be put down and removed.
He spoke with Mr. Hamlin, the engineer, about it.
Okay. Thank you. So we have some suggestions on the 60 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 table.
I'd be interested in hearing a little more of the details of what they're thinking, in terms of a structure that would overlay the intersection. Are you talking about bridging underneath the el or bridging over the el?
If you're going to be around after this, we'd like to explore it.
I will elaborate, if I might, on your question about the street openings. First of all, in terms of 52nd Street, based on the last meeting, we went back and reassessed how we can facilitate opening 52nd Street. And we looked at various options. Part of those options involve opening a single lane versus accelerating the work. In that particular intersection, there's 61 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 some odd utilities in that underground there, that are some form of reconstruction, either relocation, tie-ins, or being replaced. So it's a significant amount of work. In terms of looking at it in a single lane proposal, you would have to keep one section of the street plated over. And as you move from one side of the street to the other, you'd have to move the plate over to facilitate construction. Based on that, the construction probably would take approximately 12 weeks. And what we would do is some significant shoring of the existing water main where we've been having some issues with sinkholes in that area. The other alternative, and the one you see in the writeup, is to actually accelerate the work. Currently it's planned to take six weeks with the intersection closed. And what we're proposing is that we accelerate the work. The contractor would be working additional time, ten-hour days including Saturdays, and the work would be completed in four weeks. 62 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 Also, at the current time, because of the work at 52nd Street intersection, the 5100 block is essentially what we define as a soft closure, in that you can't have through traffic through there, so it's available to residents or local businesses for their usage. Also, we did assess the parking impacts in that area, and we understand the impacts on the local residents and businesses. And we're proposing to move the fence back from 53rd street to Lindenwood Street to also create more parking access in that area. In terms of creating a single lane in Market Street, we did evaluate that. We reassessed it. It is a major safety concern because you have heavy construction equipment which moves in and out and swings into that one operating lane. Also, there's major issues. We have tried this, but there is a significant amount of confusion with the public, in that they tend to approach the open lane from both directions, and there's been potential head-on collisions. Also, in terms of busing operations, 63 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 it becomes unfeasible to operate buses in a single lane mode. However, I think probably, in terms of the schedule, it would be beneficial to have an understanding when this work would be complete. And if I might look in my notes...
You said that, as my staff reminds me, even if we can work out the intersections being open, with lots and places for people to park during this construction, we're still going to need some transportation, some kind of shuttle service, to allow people to get to and from cars and to do some shopping in areas where the street adjacent or parallel to the construction where that area is not available. So, we think we still need that. Now, you're saying that... You're basically saying that it may be feasible for us to do what has been suggested, in terms of opening up the intersections.
Yes, in terms of a single lane. However, I do want to advise you that the construction process will take longer, from the standpoint that you'll have to plate over 64 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 one half of the street because the contractor will have to remove that plate each morning to do his work, and also because there's tie-ins that go across the intersection. And he'll have to eventually move to the other side. So it will take a significantly longer period of time if you take that approach.
I think if folks are waiting till '07, a little more time isn't going to make a big difference, when we've got to get some business... We have to have some business activity now in order to survive. Mr. English. And I'll repeat your question. I'm sorry we don't have a move-around mike. Yes, sir.
My question that he's asked, as far as the safety aspect, you're saying with the one lane open. How come it changes as soon as you get on the other side of 63rd street which is outside of Philadelphia? They work; the traffic remains open so people from Upper Darby and Millborne can come through. Why are they working in the middle of the street? 65 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 They got flag people getting all the traffic by -- The equipment swings. You actually have to stop there a few minutes for it. But nothing can work right in the City but you all can do a spectacular job right outside the City. It really hurts. (Applause.)
Please identify yourself for the record, Mr. English, to the stenographer. State your name.
Cliff English, West Market Village Association. That's E-n-g-l-i-s-h.
I think that's a reasonable question. And the answer would be that if you look at the way the columns span when you go beyond 63rd Street, they span over to the sidewalks. And there's a much wider area of street available to create two lanes, versus when you go down Market Street, the columns are actually in Market Street. 66 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 So it makes it much more difficult to creating a single lane. But to operate two lanes and perform construction at the same time would be very difficult in that scenario. So, essentially what I guess what I'm saying is, you have a different configuration of the columns when you go east on Market Street, versus -- from 63rd, versus going west on 63rd.
They do change, sir but they don't change like that. They gradually started to change. But as far as the street being open, that aspect changes as soon as you get to 63rd Street, not the block and a half up where the columns are still the same. They're still working the same. That's all. I'm saying they just took extra care making sure that that traffic would be able to get outside the City; that's all. I mean, to get into. But we can't move at all, you know.
Just to alert you, unfortunately, there will be new columns in the center of Market Street west of 63rd Street. And when they start to install those, you'll start to 67 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 experience similar problems.
Are you saying they're going to have anything outside the City blocked off where they can't come through?
There will be occasions where you'll have similar circumstances, yes.
And in terms of the -- I'm sorry. Did I answer? In terms of the plating over, I'm not sure I was absolutely clear. But in opening up a lane, which essentially ruins north-south, we would propose plating over one side, and then essentially west or east side. And then as construction ensues, we would move the plates over to the other side. And obviously, that would be a longer construction process.
We heard you. And we're willing to live with the longer process in order to get some immediate relief.
Councilwoman, would it 68 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 be beneficial if we sort of sent drawings of what it could look like over?
Okay. Why don't we plan on doing that? That way you have a pictorial of what it could look like, just to make sure that is what everybody would want.
So we will do that, and we'll show them at our next hearing.
In reference to the street lighting issues, in responding to those concerns, we have evaluated the street lighting issues, and we are working in conjunction with the City engineers in charge of the street lighting. First of all, we had our electrical contractor evaluate those City lights that are being impacted by construction. 69 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 And our intent is to repair or replace those existing lights. It's approximately some odd lights. And hopefully that will help 5 to restore it to its original level. 6 Our other intent is to work with the 7 City engineer to evaluate how to install 8 additional lights and work in conjunction with 9 them, in terms of the best way or appropriate way 10 to install supplemental lighting. 11
When do you 12 think we might... As someone said, what's the 13 time frame on that? 14
I think, to give you 15 a specific time frame, probably I'd have to get 16 back to you on that. However, we are in current 17 conversations even as of this moment with the City 18 engineer to implement this process, so we will 19 expedite it as quickly as we possibly can. 20
All right. 21 We'll stay in touch with them on a date and be in 22 touch with everyone here. 23 Next we're dealing with policing and 24 cleaning the site, and then escalators. 25
In terms of the 70 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 site -- I'm sorry. In terms of the site cleaning, we have two contracts currently in place, one for the foundations contract and one for the Cobbs Creek contract. Embedded in those contracts are the requirements for daily housekeeping and cleaning of the site, making sure that all the construction equipment, the construction materials are stored neatly within the boundaries of the construction fence lines. The contractors are responsible for daily housekeeping of those sites.
They're not doing it. They're not putting they're stuff away.
They're not being clean. As we said at our last meeting, they were urinating, wouldn't even put porta-toilets out in the 5500 block of Market Street. They're urinating in front of people's homes. And they're 71 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 not cleaning. They're not putting stuff away at the end of the day, and they're just not cleaning.
And we appreciate, and we respect and appreciate your concerns. And we have, just as of the last meeting, met with our contractors. And we're putting stricter enforcement into the cleanup process, that they're required by contract to perform, and also --
This is why that we asked that you contract with Acourse, a cleaning company managed through the partnership C.D.C, a community organization. I mean, it doesn't have to be them. We recommend them because they're part of the community.
And they have a community development corporation business. But certainly I don't think anybody's seen it spotless this week. It has been better? Has it been better since we had our last meeting?
So nothing's happened. It's been dirty from the 72 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 inception of the contract. They're been working a couple years. And if they're not cleaning now, I don't know what changes it, other than you getting a cleaning company. As I said, we'd recommend Blaine Stoddard and partnership C.D.C. Acourse Company but certainly the people can't live like this until '07. You've got to give us some dignity and respect the community and have it cleaned.
Well, as we talked and you mentioned Mercy, our intent is to refer the contractors to them. Obviously, since they have a binding contract at this point in time, it gets complicated. But if they're not effectively meeting the requirements of the contract, certainly that process can be pursued.
Thank you. So they're going to pursue contacting the partnership.
And any other names -- You had mentioned Mercy earlier. Any other names, give those to me.
It's all 73 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 the same company. They run that for Mercy Health Special Services District. This is the first Neighborhood Special Service District in the City. We helped create that out of a need in the community to have this service. But the Acourse company does all that in the partnership. And the C.D.C. is in charge of that as well. Thank you. Next was escalators.
Good morning. We're going to talk about the community. We're going to talk about that. The escalator... As far as the escalator is concerned at 60th Street, in the package of material -- and we'll make sure there are enough copies so that everybody gets it -- we have in the package a list of the six operable escalators, and the date of installation, and where they are. And most of those are in the upper areas, at 46th street, 52nd Street. 56th Street and 60th street up on the mezzanine is operable. 74 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 As we know and you know, 46th street lower level and 60th street lower level has been -- both of those escalators have been condemned. And as we previously stated, neither of those units can be salvaged. And in addition, both have exceeded their useful life. And as we said earlier, the parts are not available. What we can do and what we can recommend is the alternate service that runs on -- both on 60th street which is Route 46 bus, and on Market Street which is the Route 51. However, both escalators at 46th Street and the lower escalator on 60th Street, we've said, are inoperable. And Councilwoman, we understand that the gravity of the issue with the senior citizens using that location. What we can do is to step up any assistance with those that would be eligible for CCT which is our Customized Community Transportation, as well as shared ride, get all that information to you, as well as provide the alternate service. However, we do know that the 75 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 stations are going to be rebuilt. And when we rebuild those stations there will be escalators and elevators at that -- at that location, as well as all of the stations that we are rebuilding.
So you're saying the other locations, 46th, 52nd, 56th and 60th... 46th and 60th Street are unable to be repaired; the others will be reopened --
Ma'am, I'm looking at Reverend Barnes, too, because his church is at 6014 Market Street. So, are you saying you're willing to do shuttle to -- out of the -- to shuttle people there? I mean, what do we do? You're saying you're willing to open the six operable ones but not 46th Street and 60th. They are inoperable and they have to be totally replaced.
They have been condemned and they will be replaced when we rebuild the station.
And to be perfectly 76 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 honest with you, Councilwoman, it is an issue of -- And we've talked about it; we've looked at it; we've talked about it internally -- it is being a good steward of the federal dollars that we have been entrusted with. If, in fact, we were to spend a million, $2 million to replace that escalator, we would not be a good steward and have some repercussions from the federal government, because what we would be doing would be to put in an escalator, if in fact we could, and then tearing it out in two or three years when we rebuild the station. That is something that we're prohibited from doing. We share the concerns. And what we can offer is the alternate service and the service to seniors.
Now, this CCT service, we want to -- We're asking and we don't want a million and a half dollars spent, although in a $567 million project, we sure are suffering. We want a new el. We want everything. 77 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607
But we sure don't want people to suffer until '07 to get there. We can't handle that. We can't survive that. So what we're saying is, will you supply the shuttle buses from that site to the end of the project? And will you supply them such that the people can get them in the same time they normally would, to make the connection at the end of the project? So if it goes -- If the project's from 46th to 63rd, then you have to be taken down to 34th to 30th Street to catch the next connection so you don't wait all day, so that it's coordinated in a timely fashion, so that it works for everybody who would normally get the el.
I'm take that one. Isn't the whole concept of shuttle buses one that we want to work on and be prepared? And when we get back together, we'll do it because --
Because the shuttle bus is not as simple as just running it up and down. 78 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 It's a coordinated activity.
I know. We've got to deal with the whole route, deal with the Streets Department and all of that.
In addition, understand it would not be a route that would go in the construction area.
We'll work all of that out. We can work out some suggestions and bring it back to all of you, from the community who can come. And in fact, we'll try to contact you in between so we can work it out and come back to the hearing with something that may be tight. So, Mr. English.
Are you actually saying that the lower half of the 60th Street el cost a million dollars to repair?
Mr. English, they were saying if they -- Yeah, if they repaired it, they could spend maybe a million 79 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 and a half to repair something that's inoperable. It's because they're no longer usable, unless I misheard.
Because the el at 46th Street, the escalator, and 60th Street are not able to be repaired. So they don't want to waste their money. We're not asking them to waste their money. We're just trying to get service.
Five more years until '07, '08. That's five more years. So I was actually trying to find out a dollar figure on what they're saying it would actually cost.
We're saying that the escalator can not be repaired. It would have to be torn out and completely replaced. We would be putting in the same kind of escalator that we would put in when we put the station in. And what I'm saying to you is even if we -- even if we could, one escalator costs approximately $700,000 to $1 million, yes.
And that's 80 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 conservatively speaking. Some of the escalators that we are purchasing from other locations, they are running a million and a half and two million. And you're also talking about just about nine months to twelve months, if we are lucky, in lead time of getting that escalator delivered. So we're still talking -- Even if we could do it, we're talking some significant amount of time between the point in time we do the specs, order them, et cetera.
And let me say to those who are in their offices that I apologize that we've been conducting this informally so that you don't hear the questions as you are supposed to. But the question was from Mr. Cliff English as to what the price was to replace els and you heard the answer -- the escalator, from $700,000 to a million dollars. And that's the question, and that's the answer.
In addition, Councilwoman, we learned that weather is very much detrimental to escalators. And those escalators 81 5/16/03 - Res. No. 020607 on the lower level, and they were exposed, constantly exposed, to the conditions of the weather. And so we learned that. When new escalators are installed, we anticipate we won't have those kinds of problems. But as you can see, the ones that we're talking about are down at 46th and 60th Street where they are exposed to the elements.