We have other 2624 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS witnesses that want to testify on Wednesday and we will start our hearings promptly at 2 o'clock, so I would like you to keep that in mind, please.
I think that every Member has his or her light on. So in order to give everyone an opportunity, I will give everyone five minutes, and then we will have the second go-around. Councilman Ortiz, your light is on but you're not next.
Councilman Ortiz, you are on the list, your light was on.
Thank you very much. Superintendent Hornbeck, the Opportunities to Learn Program lists many things 2625 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS that are very important, like nurses full time and smaller class sizes and remedial tutoring for children when needed and summer programs and so on and so on. How does that fit into your budget?
If the Board and the Mayor determine that those things on that list should be in the budget, it would increase the size of the gap that we face for 2001 by about $155 million. If we phase those things in over a 3-year period, it would require $155 million more dollars in Year 1. If we were to phase them in over a 5-year period, it would require an additional expenditure of about $120 million.
So the 330 million that Mr. Ramos, you have in yours, is for what period?
Well, Councilwoman Blackwell, the -- we laid out for your benefit the carry-forward costs and then the costs of the Fair Opportunities to Learn, as originally presented by the Superintendent. The Superintendent's now laying out a variation of the second alternative in my testimony, which is spreading out those Fair 2626 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS Opportunities to Learn over a longer period. The Board has not yet begun its deliberations on the budget and -- which I do have to emphasize because of the -- we do -- while we know all the Fair Opportunities to Learn are programs that our students need, we do have to proceed through the budget process responsibly and looking towards -- and with the benefit of the whole Board and the community according to the five principles that I outlined in my testimony.
Thank you. Superintendent Hornbeck, you mentioned in the Fair Opportunities for Learning Plan alternatives for disruptive students. Is that part of the CEP Program?
Now, there are those who say that it would be more cost-effective to re-train and move teachers. What is your opinion on that as opposed to forming a whole 'nother structure for students?
Well, we know that the experience in Houston resulted in an actual reduction in costs by engaging CEP, and the 2627 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS authorization that the Board has given us for negotiating a contract would call for our expending no more than the amount per pupil for our regular expenditure, which is $6969, looking to a commitment that the State has made for making up the difference between that expenditure for a regular child and what this would cost. So, in fact, by going in this direction, we will have placed ourselves in a position of serving more students for less money.
Thank you. Another question in that regard is, I think I read some time ago that this program was for students who were not only disruptive but for those who were academically behind and for those who, quote/unquote, just didn't fit in? Is that in fact true?
And how do you reconcile children who are academically behind? And what do we mean by "kids who just don't fit in" along with kids who are just disruptive?
Well, I don't know that I -- I don't usually use the phrase "just don't 2628 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS fit in," unless you mean, for example, this would be one alternative place to put youngsters for a while as a transition as they return from incarceration. But I would explicitly say kids who are returning from incarceration for whom this might be an appropriate placement, not just don't fit in. With respect to academically deficient, we're talking about youngsters whose performance tells us that they are more than two years behind their grade level. And the -- (Five-minute timer goes off.)
I just got started, Madam Chair. All right. Would you finish the answer and then we'll move on.
Only to say that one of the things that is very clear to us is that there is almost always a connection between academic deficiency and disruption. We almost never have this -- almost never -- we do have, but not very often, instances in which we've got a disruptive kid who is doing real well in school.
All right, I 2629 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS have several questions, but I'll --
Keep your light on and I will keep your name on the list. Thank you.
I think I'll come back to the money issue second. I want to get some other things in 'cause we don't have a lot of time. On of your briefing book that we received, there is a section regarding teacher training, and you talk about staff development, professional development, and I'm interested in knowing where and what areas the staff development is in, and I'm concerned about technology, the ability to have teachers understand and use computers so that they can be more effective with our students.
There are a -- of 2630 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS course, a spectrum of places where professional development takes place. The specific reference there highlights the program during the summer, where almost 5,000 teachers and faculty participated in what we refer to as "Content Institutes," and those are week-long and two-week-long intensive programs during the summertime. In fact, they have grown over these last years. From the first year I was here, I think there were about 900 in to -- in fact, this past summer -- I think this is not entirely accurate. I think it's over 5,000 that participated this last summer. And it is a combination of content on one hand, with focus on English, math, and science, to pedagogy -- that is, how to teach better, teaching strategies. So that's a very, very important piece of the professional development. What we've discovered is that, you know, that the Wednesday afternoon, you get off an hour early and you stay for two hours kind of professional development is far less desirable than being able to have teachers or principals, or 2631 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS whomever it is, together for more sustained periods of time. There are, then, other more targeted elements of professional development. I think, for example, of the system-wide need to do training around sexual harassment this last year. And what we do when we do that is to craft, in a sense, a particular training program and then work out a schedule so that all those who need to have that experience have it. On the technology front, we have moved over the last five years from 1 computer for every 30 kids to 1 for every 10 kids. We also, by the end of this calendar year, I think it is, will have all of the schools wired. I think I'm right now that -- I know I'm right that every school has a connection to the Internet. I think I'm right that every school now has six locations that are connected to the Internet, and there are some with a good deal more than that. And we are methodically attending to the issue of professional development that supports faculty use of computers, because just to 2632 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS have technology doesn't do anything. You got to -- you got to help people know how to use it intelligently. So that has grown significantly as well.
You're saying that by the been end of this year, all of the schools in the system will be wired?
I -- I think that's right. I will confirm that, but I think I'm right about that timetable.
We have been able to successfully take advantage in the last two years of something called "the E rate," which is a national program under the Federal Communications Commission, which has given us tens of millions of dollars -- I think we're up to over $20 million now -- the primary purpose of which is to wire schools. So we've been on a very aggressive timetable for implementation under the leadership of both Ron Daniels, our acting CIO, and Bob Westall, who is specifically charged with that responsibility.
Could you tell me, 2633 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS what is your policy in accepting computers from corporations or any entity that may be interested in donating computers, used computers, to the school system?
We have numerous instances in which we have accepted them, and we've accepted them for two different purposes along the line. In one instance, they've been sufficiently new -- that is not to say new, just sufficiently new, that they still have life left in them, and we actually use them in schools and classrooms. In other instances, we've been very successful in a number of schools in developing computer repair programs. And so there have been instances in which we've accepted computers not to use them as computers but to use them as parts so that students are able to develop skills that way. And that's actually fed into what has been a terrific series of new initiatives. The one that comes to my mind is a partnership we have with Cisco (ph.) now where in a number of our high schools, we have full-fledged Cisco certification 2634 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS programs where youngsters over a couple of years go through this very highly technical, complex program and come out the other end with a certificate that permits them to go immediately to work, if they wish, upon graduation at very nice salaries as a consequence.
So -- okay, if we had someone who wanted to contribute computers to the District, who would they contact?
Well, start by calling me, and I'll make sure that we accept them with dispatch and put them to proper use.
Sorry, Councilwoman, your time is up. We'll go to the second go-around.
Let me first start out by thanking Debra Kahn for the response to 2635 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS questions that came before this body during the budget hearings. I appreciate that very much. And I want to start up with some follow-up questions that were posed by Madam Chair and Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller on the Community Education Partner School. First I'll ask that I -- and I can't speak for Members of this body -- would like you to keep us in close touch with the developments. I know it's in a formative stage, but there are a lot of questions that I will have and I'm others will have as we go down this path. One speaks to the notion of initial enrollment. You said 600 by September 1, with a goal of 1500 young people. What is the reimbursement structure for that?
We haven't completed that yet completely, but the approach to it is one that would tie two things together, and that is payment with attendance.
So that there would be a payment of X-dollars for each day, in effect, that a child is present. And if the company is able to increase significantly from a base, a child's 2636 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS attendance, they would get, in effect, a bonus. And if they fell short of the base, there would be a deduction. So that there is an accountability that centers around attendance --
The arrangement. So it's "performance-based," for lack of a better word?
It's a performance feature. In addition to that, though it not, in our thinking at the moment, tied directly to payment in the first round, we have built in certain accountability features with respect to performance in reading, math, and science that would inform us when it came time to renew the contract. So that there is that second academic-performance feature that we're building into it also.
Well, that's encouraging because then there is an opportunity 2637 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS for a young person to find their way out and back into a regular classroom --
Accepting the fact that typically, there are more males than females in this kind of environment, do you have any say in the hiring of teachers, and specifically male teachers, for the Community Education Partner School?
I don't think at the moment that has entered into the negotiations, but I appreciate the observation, and we'll take a look at that issue.
I think it matters when it comes to young men having role models. If you had to follow up on Donna Reed Miller's -- Councilwoman Reed Miller's question, if you had to I.D. the top three compelling issues facing the School District, what would you say they are? And, a follow-up, where would school safety and school violence rank? 2638 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS
Well, I -- I -- that's tough that you give me only three. But I think that safety and security has to be one of the top issues. A second top issue is that we have done an increasingly good job -- and better than other big school systems -- of getting larger numbers of children sort of to grade level or to what we call basic.
But what neither we nor anyone else in the United States has done successfully yet is to get large numbers of students beyond basic to genuinely higher levels of achievement that we believe are going to be required for youngsters as they compete for jobs in the early part of this century. So I would say that understanding how to get kids beyond basic would be a second. And the third -- well, let me say about beyond basic, a whole lot of those Fair Opportunities to Learn things go to that issue.
And then the third thing 2639 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS I would lift up, and these aren't necessarily in order because I could put any one of these first, second and third, is the need to recruit and maintain increasingly larger numbers of quality teachers.
I overlooked an issue that I am concerned about too, also raised by Councilwoman Blackwell. For sure, students who are performing poorly academically most often are disruptive. And have you discussed in this pending contract parameters in place or assurances in place that children who are academically slow because they're academically slow are not misplaced?
Now, that's very important. And, in fact, just to that point, you would not be able to get into this school without going through a very difficult process --
-- of examining your individual needs for being in that school.
Okay. Let me move to one other area before my time is up. 2640 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS
Thank you, Madam Chair. There's a great difference between this hearing and the hearing we had the other day. First of all, it's less crowded, there's much less shouting, and the issues are about kids and education. So the passion is not there about building new stadiums. And so, Madam Chair, it's a welcome change. I want to congratulate the Board, my friends who have been retained and those who have come on. Mr. Superintendent, could you tell me what the average age of the schools are?
That's the average age of the schools in Philadelphia? 2641 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS
It was built in 1972. Do you know what the cost of the new stadium is going to be, of one?
It's close to $400 million. Could you estimate what the capital needs are in terms of money for the school system?
In order to bring our present plant structure, the envelope that exists now, without building new schools, up to where it needs to be, we estimate it, as a consequence of the facilities audit we conducted about three years ago, that at that time, it would have cost about $750 million.
I have a news release from your office that states that about $765 million is needed to bring the District 2642 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS facilities in compliance with building standards. Does that sound right to you?
And children are attending currently, and those schools are generally overcrowded. Is Sheppard one of them?
I think Sheppard is one of the 100-year-old ones. It's certain one of the overcrowded ones.
Sheppard currently has a heating system that is, I think, run by coal, is it? Or has the boiler been changed?
I think that we have finally dispensed with all of the coal furnaces.
Do you know what the heating system in a sky box is at Vets Stadium?
It's not coal. Do you know how much money the owners 2643 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS of the Phillies and Eagles get from a Vets Stadium box?
It's not a small piece of change. Of those facilities and of the needs that we currently have, how do you project that we are going to go about bringing these schools up to code?
So we can give our kids at least a decent place to learn.
We -- what we have done over these last five years, which is not often known, is that in the last five years, we have increased the capital expenditure to an average of $117 million a year, in contrast to the $42 million a year that we spent on average in the 5 years before that. And our -- the Capital Budget is a very serious thing. We are -- we're not making much headway in getting on top of that, although I must say that we have built, I guess, it's four new schools, and we've bought six parochial schools 2644 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS and put them into service in the last five years, and I think we're up to six of those little schoolhouses now. And I think it's fair to say that on the maintenance front, including the computerization of work orders, we're doing a much, much better job. But we are not on a trajectory in which we would either bring all of our schools up to the standards that they need to be, nor are we, for sure, on a trajectory in which we would alleviate the overcrowding that we have.
And these schools that we have that are 100, 80 years old, 60 years old, when you go out to rewire them in order to be able to make them accessible to the Internet and computerization, isn't the process of rewiring these old schools much more expensive than if we had world-class facilities in the first place?
Because we were told that we need world-class sports facilities.
It is very difficult to wire an old school that doesn't have drop ceilings 2645 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS and other things that permit you to do it more easily.
And the wiring is at least 80 years old in some of these schools also, isn't it?
I would -- I would expect that it's old. Whether there are any that are still actually 80 or 100 years old, I'm not sure.
I just wanted to put the debate into perspective, Madam Chair. We had 500 people here the other day, and it seems that the absence of those 500 -- I wish they were here in order to hear about the debate of what really a world-class city is all about, which is children and schools. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. Your time is up. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. It's almost there. 2646 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS I have a question referencing the briefing document as it relates to kindergarten eligibility for 5-year-olds, and we're currently now able to offer that to every eligible child, every eligible 5-year-old. You're to be commended.
Okay. Have we had to phase that into existence based on the resources, or did we do that all at once?
With respect to kindergarten, when I came here some years ago, a really good base had been established by former Superintendent Clayton and her staff. And then we made a decision -- I guess it was the first year I was here, I think -- that we were going to make it universal. And in the first year, we were able to do it full-time in all but, as I remember, 21 schools. 22 And we focused in the first instance on 23 those schools where the greatest concentrations of 24 low-income children were. And then in the second 25 year, which would have been, I think, the '95-'96 2647 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS school year, we made it universal in 100 percent. And we've been able to do that largely for two reasons, 'cause we've gotten per pupil less money since then. One is that we have been able to -- we've pretty successful, probably more than any other school district in the United States, in raising money from private and special grant sources. But the other reason is that because of administrative savings that we've undertaken, we have, in the aggregate, achieved over $200 million during this period, and we've plowed that money back into the classroom. And kindergarten is a very good example of where we put it.
Okay. So in most instances, when you have to phase in a new initiative, I mean, how do you address that? I mean, is there a particular guideline or a policy relating to what locations, what schools, what areas, what geographically, income levels? How do you do that?
In some instances, we will do something so that all parts of the City get it in a kind of an equitable way. In 2648 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS something like kindergarten, and the reason we've focused on low-income kids is because the research tells us that the kids who benefit the most from early childhood education, whether kindergarten or pre-kindergarten, are, in fact, low-income kids. And so we made the decision in that instance, as we do in other instances. We would do that with the pre-K also is to -- if we're forced to phase in, to give some greater attention to those parts of the City that have concentrations of low-income children.
Okay. Also in your briefing document, you make mention of the 364 administrative positions that have been eliminated. You say it's a myth that we're over-staffing administrative positions currently. I have a question about the cluster program. When did that come into effect?
It began -- the first six clusters were put into effect in -- I think it was in the spring of '95, and then the subsequent 16 a year later.
And what are the staffing associated with the clusters? 2649 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS
There are on average around -- well, there are three positions -- an administrative assistant, a confidential secretary, and a cluster leader -- that are the administrators of the cluster. And then you have an average of ten or twelve other individuals, like psychologists, people who work on the professional development that we talked about a little while ago, special-education supervisors, who are also attached. There are fewer of those than one for every school, and so they become attached to the cluster office.
So you essentially categorize that the three individuals that you spoke of initially would be the administrative level and the other individuals who would be more service-delivery directly to the student.
So how many administrative-level individuals do you have throughout the clusters?
Sixty-six. And so 2650 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS if you add those 66, the numbers of administrators would be reduced in terms of the numbers that you reduce your overall staffing levels? When you talk about the 364 administrators, I'm assuming they're not from the clusters, correct?
This is -- the reduction to which you referred originally does not include the 66.
So it's really not 364 when you talk about it generally?
I'm saying you've added an additional 66 administrative positions.
Okay, all right. 2651 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS It didn't reference that in here and I just wanted some clarity on that. Okay, thank you.
All right, 35 seconds. Family learning centers, I happen to have one in my neighborhood, and my understanding is it's not doing as well as was anticipated. Can somebody kind of speak to where we are with those and what changes we're making?
Well, we could give you some feedback on the particular center, which I'm not familiar. But generally speaking, the family centers have been made a terrific contribution to neighborhoods. We are now up to -- I think it's 14 of them across the City that are jointly funded and run and so on by DHS and us and the Department 2652 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS of Health and so on. They operate in our buildings in all but, I think, one instance, but they are under the administrative responsibility of DHS. And if there are issues or questions that arise in your particular one, I would be glad to get somebody to follow up on that with you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. I don't mind waiting. Good morning, Mr. Ramos, Mrs. Rush, Secretary Kahn, and Superintendent Hornbeck. My question is probably very direct and it may be one that you're unprepared to answer, but what are your goals with teacher-contract negotiations? And what reform measures do you think need to be included in those contracts in order to actually achieve your goals?
Well, the way I frame that is twofold, without going to particular provisions, because we're not really in a position 2653 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS to negotiate the contract in a public setting. But I think it's very important that the specific provisions of the contract affirmatively contribute to creating classrooms and schools where kids being able to read and do math and science is more likely, and that goes to the issues around work rules. And, secondly, I think it's very important that the contract provide -- have provisions, including pay provisions, that will result in sufficient quantities of quality teachers.
The American Federation of Teachers, the AFT, which is meeting here this summer, has laid out measures for negotiations in terms of changes that they've asked for nationally. Are those the type of goals you would be looking for in teacher-contract negotiations without specifically negotiating a contract here? If you don't know what goals you're looking for in terms of actual reform, if you can't share with this Council what goals you're looking for, then aside from issues of financing 2654 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS and test scores, there's no need for us to believe that those schools that aren't already good schools will become good schools.
Well, I'm very encouraged by Sandy Feldman's position on collective bargaining, and I think the AFT is providing some very good leadership in articulating those things. I think that Sandy is clearly still focused on issues of wages and hours and conditions of employment, sort of traditional trade union areas of focus, but she has become very clear that faculty are a necessary partner in the quest for improved performance too, including, I might say, issues of accountability. I was privileged to be invited to the two summits that have been held with the governors and the CEOs up in New York over the last couple of three years, and she was at them also. And particularly in the second one that happened just a few months ago, she and Bob Chase, who is the President of the other national teachers union, spoke very eloquently and powerfully to the issues of accountability and to the importance of that as 2655 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS it relates to improving instruction so kids learn more. So I'm very hopeful that that kind of leadership will contribute to the overall climate in which the Federation and we move forward. I must say that in the early days of this conversation that I have found the Federation very much wanting also to arrive at a contract that's very positive for kids.
I guess where I'm really going with this is, I am proud of public schools. I guess that's because I attended Masterman and Central, and Masterman started out as a laboratory and demonstration school several years ago. We know that that demonstration project has worked. And it has not just worked because of the level of funding, it hasn't just worked for a number of other reasons, but there are specific reasons why it has worked. Without giving each school -- or before giving each school charter school status, what type of flexibility do schools have in terms of designing their own curriculum and managing their own human and financial resources?
Over these last several 2656 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS years, the flexibility for a school staff faculty, the principal, and even including parents, to play a major and increasing role in making those decisions has really expanded. In fact, it's been now about over five years ago that we started with Title I monies, where we just allocated them out on a formula, and then, by and large, schools had the flexibility to design the expenditure patterns themselves. And then I guess it was about two years ago, three years ago maybe, when we went to an allocation formula for operating money that went out. There are constraints that arise from law and contracts. The contract provides the process that's a relatively rigid one for how teachers end up in particular schools, so that flexibility is not there. But beyond that, there's a very wide flexibility in the expenditure of money.
I'll continue with this in the second round, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam 2657 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS Chair. I'm not sure I understood the question and answer that we just dealt with from Councilman Goode, but it struck a note that has been in the back of my mind. Were you discussing the possibility of an average school, any school anywhere being just like a charter school or having the ability to, in effect, turn itself into a charter school?
Well, it wasn't so much likening it to a charter school, as I was simply reflecting my own belief that the Board and the Superintendent ought to set standards of what kids ought to know and be able to do and attend to issues of assessment and accountability and equity. And within that framework, there should be broad flexibility at the school to design the particular approaches in that school. There are 259 schools different, and different communities bring different strengths, different school have different strengths among faculty. And it's my own belief that faculty working together and faculty and the principal working with parents can construct powerful 2658 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS learning studies. And so all I was speaking to was my own endorsement of a significant amount of flexibility in how they accomplish the standards, with very little flexibility in what the standards themselves are, for reasons of equity.
Well, I think that would be a great direction to go in. I think that would help us attain the goal of every school in the City being a school that parents want to send their kids to.
And feel that, you know, their kids are getting something out of it. I'll watch that carefully. I don't think parents understand that anywhere, and I don't know whether the faculties do or not. But I'm convinced that overwhelmingly, the faculties are sincere and want to do the best possible job with whatever resources they're given. And I think that's a great way to go. Now, let me raise a question. You mentioned in your testimony that this year, sort of for the first time, I gathered, you were having 2659 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS a problem with ordinary substitutes, that on some days, you didn't have enough substitutes. I've been getting calls in my office from some people who have in the past acted as substitutes and say that they are running into difficulties, that there seems to be a new system for authorizing substitutes. I'm thinking in particular of one person who whose certification, I think, was vocational education, but for many, many years, he's acted very frequently as a substitute in other courses. And, apparently, there are lists where substitutes are put on certain lists, like they can teach different courses, but they're limited to those. And he says he's now being told that since there's a better checking system available, they have found that he's certified for vocational education, and he gets refused now unless there's a vocational-education opening, although for years, he's taught many other classes. Could that be the problem that you're suffering? Is there -- are there people who have been treated as very capable substitutes and who are now being ruled out from positions that they 2660 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS filled maybe as substitutes for many years? Could that be a cause for the shortage?
I don't think so. I'm not familiar with the type of situation that you're describing and would be glad to hear from this individual, because we do need -- we do need good people. But that -- and I didn't mean to suggest this was the first year we've faced a substitute problem; we've faced a substitute problem, I think, since time began. But it is more acute, I think, this year as we, as I say, moved some of the substitutes into regular teaching positions.
I don't know of a -- two or three years ago, three or four year ago, when we put this so-called herbs system in, there were some changes that took place because the contract calls for the placement of substitute teachers on the basis of seniority. And previously, when it was all being done by hand, nobody could quite track all of that. 2661 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS And then when we automated it, all of a sudden, we could track it, and that one disrupted the flow some. But that's been solved now for at least a couple of years, and I don't know of any other --
Well, let me bring this to your attention and perhaps your staff can look at it.
One other question. In the issue of school tokens, we have been -- some of us in City Council have been questioning the role of SEPTA in failing to provide public transportation. We carefully refrained at the SEPTA hearings from raising the question of the responsibility of School District. But it seems to me that I haven't heard any outcry from the school system about the failure of children to be able to get to school because the families can't afford the tokens. We know that you give -- that you buy school tokens at the regular retail price that anybody else could get in Philadelphia if they bought far fewer tokens -- I think maybe just even a week's 2662 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS supply. And we understand you give them a commission, you pay $1.15, I understand.
And you make them available to the kids at 90 cents, we understand that. But I would think that the school system would be out in front, demanding free transportation for kids. Why should any poor kid stay home from school? You talk about wanting to educate the kids. We're spending all this money and all of this energy, we got a new fresh School Board coming in full of vim and vigor, and hopefully are really going to change a lot of people's attitude. But what I'm interested in is, why hasn't the School District been complaining about kids being unable to go to school?
Well, we have sought, Councilman Cohen, repeatedly to make the observation that the $9 a week that it costs kids to have to pay to get to school, in fact, ends up forcing some families into a posture of having one kid go this week and another kid go to school the 2663 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS next week, which is absolutely outrageous, in our mind. And we note almost every year that fact and, indeed, in some of the material you've got this morning in your book, it notes it again, and it's on that Fair Opportunities to Learn list. The issue, as with so many others, is the issue of money, it's the issue of equity. And it's -- whether it's SEPTA paying for it or our paying for it, somebody's got to come up with the million bucks to do it. And at least to this 12 point, the State and others simply have not -- 13 have not done that, and poor kids having to pay to 14 get on a bus, being the only place in the entire 15 State of Pennsylvania in which that's so.
Councilman Cohen, please make this your last question because your time's up, and we'll have a second go-around.
Madam Chair, I'm sorry, would the Councilman consider yielding on that point?
Councilman 2664 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS Cohen, Councilman Nutter is requesting for you to yield.
Thank you, Councilman, I appreciate it. Just on that particular point, it's in Tab 2, of the book that we received. Mr. Superintendent, are you talking about the-- you have an item of transportation, free tokens. There's more -- who benefits, key features. And at the end of that chart is the $15 million figure SEPTA.
I don't know if my colleagues are prepared to go down this particular path, but that number seems to match up perfectly with the one-time grant that I think we've provided four times in a row to the School 2665 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS District and whether the School District's given any consideration in terms of targeting that particular grant for this particular purpose to try to solve this particular problem.
Well, we have not because to do that is the proverbial robbing Peter to pay Paul. We could not have as much kindergartners or we could not have as much books or we could not have as much computers or, you know, whatever.
Well, is the $15 million from the City targeted to anything in particular? In previous budget hearings --
In previous budget hearings, I've never gotten the particular impression that that 15 was targeted for anything in particular.
It's for current expenses. It's -- if we took it away from the Operating Budget, which is basically what it goes into, then the deficit, the gap, whatever you want to call it, that we've been talking about would just get $15 million bigger. So it's -- 2666 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS
But for that 10 particular item, it's a net new 15. 11
Okay, all right. 13 Councilman Cohen, thank you so much for 14 that yield. I greatly appreciate it. 15
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Superintendent Hornbeck, your comments about technology and wiring the schools for computers. I guess I have to ask this question. Have you developed a criteria of what is available to the students on the Internet? Is there unlimited access? What kind of oversight has been 2667 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS given the installation of computers?
We have not issued the policy, but we have -- what do we call that policy? What's the policy called that we're developing to control access to the Internet and computers and. . . (Superintendent Hornbeck confers with colleagues off the record.)
"Acceptable use," that's it, I knew it had a name. We have a draft of an acceptable use policy that we have not yet issued that goes to that question of trying to govern, manage, monitor access.
Well, that's good to hear that that's on the drawing board. And it will be implemented how long?
Well, it shouldn't -- we ought, sometime in the next two to three months, we ought to -- it's a very complex thing, as you might guess, because on the one hand, you want to monitor it and you want to limit it, but on the other hand, you want to give the youngsters opportunity to use the Internet. And figuring out 2668 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS exactly how to put those blocks in there on certain kinds of things is one of the challenges we face.
Reading one of your bullets, "Spending Tax Dollars Responsibly," I'm curious, have you tried to accomplish some joint efforts with the Administration? Example, the Procurement Department tells me that they could provide a service to the School District and do a lot of purchasing for you because they buy similar items that you purchase. I've been told that that's never been explored. The area of Fleet Management, a joint effort in that area. All of these areas that I just mentioned have -- what are you doing to try to streamline things, to join hands with parties like the Administration in City government that are basically doing the same things that you do, maintenance --
Well, we've done some of that. We've done some of it in collaboration, I think, for example, of the 117 places that the Rec. Department and we jointly provided 2669 3/6/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - SCHOOLS after-school programs. It's my understanding that there are also some purchasing areas where we have purchased off of a City contract, and I think I'm right in saying that there have been some instances in which the City has purchased off of School District contract, because there are times when our price is better than the City's price. So we are very open to doing that kind of collaboration where it ends up saving either one of us money in the process.