COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, December 4, 2007 10:30 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN CAROL ANN CAMPBELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN BRIAN O'NEILL COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN DANIEL SAVAGE COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILL 070994, 070605, 070606, 070607, 070608, 070609, 070610, 070611, 070612, 070613, 070614, 070615, 070616, 070617, 070722, 070723, 070724, 070725, 070726, 070727, 070728, 070729, 070730, 070732, 070733, 070734, 070735, 070736, 071013, 071014, 071015, 071016, 071017, 071018, 071019, 071020, 071021, 071022, 071023, 071024, 071025, 071026, 071027, 071028, 071029 and 071030 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, everyone. This is a continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 070994. I would ask the City Solicitor to please approach the witness table, and if you will, sir, I would ask that you please explain the amendments that we just received.
Good morning, Madam Chair and members of City Council. I apologize for the late delivery. This has been a negotiation continuing until this morning. I'm Romulo L. Diaz, Jr., City Solicitor. We have attempted to distribute copies to all members. I've got three additional copies here if there's anyone who needs a copy. What we have done, Madam Chair, is to develop an amendment based upon the hearing conducted last Friday to have a legally binding Economic Opportunity Plan 3 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 prepared that you see before you. In addition to the Economic Opportunity Plan, which would constitute a new Exhibit F to the bill before you, we also have drafted a covenant that is binding on all of the parties, the Commonwealth, the Authority and the City. You see that in connection with the covenant on of the amendment that's been circulated, you'll see that at the bottom of the there is an Exhibit E. This is in connection with the Convention Center agreement. You'll recall that there are two agreements that were testified to last week. One is the Convention Center agreement, which is the transition document until defeasement of the bonds no later than June '08. And so that is an Exhibit E, would be the Economic Opportunity Plan to that document. On , you will see that there is a covenant and on the following page a reference to Exhibit F for the 4 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 operating agreement. This is the long-term operating agreement once the current bonds have been defeased. In a summary form, I think what you have before you is an Economic Opportunity Plan that looks like what City Council has previously required in connection with other development projects within the City. It provides for the expectation of a new pre-qualification document. One has already been let based upon the earlier lower mandatory requirements that were discussed last Friday. There is an expectation that there will be a new pre-qualification of contractors based upon the new higher aspirational goals, which are 35 percent for minority contractors, 15 percent for women contractors with regard to construction contracts. I believe there was testimony by Mr. Eisenstadt last Friday that with respect to the architectural and design 5 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 work, that the Authority had been successful in exceeding its targets, but certainly for all future work, these are the new aspirational goals that would be expected for contractors. Apprentices are provided for. I think they're covered in Pages and 9 11 of the document. There is a 10 requirement for OIC, among other groups, to be considered as part of this review, which I think was raised by Councilwoman Reynolds Brown. We have incorporated also at her request the inclusion of the African-American Chamber of Commerce and the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in the Oversight Committee provisions. I believe, in summary then, that all of the issues that I heard raised last week have been addressed, hopefully satisfactorily to the members of Council. And the last point I would make is that in connection with the post construction, you will see that there are 6 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 permanent employment opportunities that are also covered for the first time as shown on . We understand that the additional workforce levels are not expected to be huge, but nonetheless, the same commitment in connection with participation by minorities and women and disabled will also apply to the permanent workforce that's contemplated by this development. So with that, Madam Chair, at an appropriate time, I would request that this be an amendment to the current bill 15 before you, 070994, and request suspension of the rules, as previously indicated by the Director of Commerce. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. Just a few questions. I don't 7 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 know if Mr. Diaz wants to answer them or who else is appropriate. Just to start, for the record, the Convention Center expansion is a $700 million project. It's the largest public works project in the history of the Commonwealth. For the record again, what contract participation goals are set for disadvantaged businesses?
I'm going to ask, Councilman, Ms. Ahmeenah Young, who is with the Authority, to address that particular question.
Good morning. I'm Ahmeenah Young, Executive Vice-President and General Manager for the Pennsylvania Convention Center. The goals that have been set, Councilperson, there are aspirational goals of 35 percent minority and 15 percent female.
What's the contract participation goal for African-American-owned businesses? 8 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
In the current contract, as we talked last week, there was a disparity study done and those goals were percent and percent. 6
My question 7 was, what is the contract participation 8 goal for African-American-owned 9 businesses? If the aspirational goal is 10 35 percent for minority-owned businesses, 11 what is the aspirational goal for 12 African-American-owned businesses? 13
So is there an aspirational goal for African-American-owned businesses?
No, there's not an aspirational goal for 9 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 African-American-owned businesses. There's a minority goal of 35 percent.
Considering that African-Americans constitute three-quarters of the minority population in Philadelphia and own over half of the minority businesses, don't you think it's appropriate there might be a specific African-American business goal as well?
I think it is appropriate to set a goal for minority businesses, sir, and I think that goal is 35 percent.
And you don't think it's appropriate to set a separate African-American goal when we know that -- and I've provided you with census data and left census data on the table as well. We know that 75 percent of minority residents are African-Americans and we know that over 50 percent of minority-owned businesses are owned by African-Americans. So should we break out part of that 35 10 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 percent?
Councilman, if I could respond, I'm not aware that any program of this type has set such subsidiary goals within the minority community, both for policy reasons, which would suggest that there needs to be competition among the minorities who are eligible --
Mr. Diaz, I'm going to stop you right now. The reason I'm going to stop --
Actually, you can't. Mr. Diaz, actually, the City of Philadelphia has broken out those goals, and you should know that. The City of Philadelphia actually has separate goals among minority businesses. Did you not know that?
What I'm suggesting is that I'm not aware of it and, in fact, what we have done here because of the 11 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 sensitivity associated with the Supreme Court rulings and the strict scrutiny applicable to these programs, we thought it was appropriate to have a minority business enterprise participation goal. There are three certifying agencies that the certified contractors can be drawn from, and if I recall correctly, one of the issues that was raised by several Councilmembers last Friday was the concern that we not be restricted geographically to whatever the minority participation is within Philadelphia or the region. So we've provided for a situation where, through the pre-qualification approach, you might be able to have contractors, prime and subcontractors, come from outside the state, and so long as there is a reciprocal certification in the home state of that contractor, MBEC, for example, has a reciprocity arrangement for certification that this Council has been previously supportive of. 12 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
Mr. Diaz, these are the City's goals right here. There's an MBE goal, there's a WBE goal, there's a DSBE goal, there is a DBE goal for African-Americans, there's a DBE goal for Hispanic-Americans, there's a DBE goal for Asian-Americans, there's a DBE goal for native Americans, there's a DBE goal for DBEs operating within the City of Philadelphia, and those are the City goals and that's as a result of a Charter change over a year ago.
The DBE goal -- I'm going to ask Michelle Flamer from the Law Department to join me, but the DBE, as a disadvantaged business enterprise, which is a federal concept, it is not one that is used by MBEC for these contracts.
MBEC developed these goals. Mr. Diaz? Mr. Diaz, MBEC developed these goals.
What I'd like to do, if I may, is ask Michelle Flamer to address the issue of DBE and the 13 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 allocation within the DBE community of specific numerical goals for African-Americans and other minority groups. I just said it's a federal concept, so if you could explain that, I'd appreciate it.
Michelle Flamer, City of Philadelphia's Law Department, Senior Attorney. The DBE, the reference to disadvantaged business enterprise, refers to the Department of Transportation program. In that directory, which is published through the Pennsylvania Unified Certification program, there is a breakout for African-Americans, businesses owned by Hispanic businesses, female and various subgroups within minority and by gender. That's actually in the Pennsylvania Unified Certification 14 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 program directory. Similarly in the MBEC directory is certified minorities, women and disabled businesses. The directory also contains a breakout in terms of whether or not they're African-African, whether or not they're owned by Latino businesses and so forth. So that information is collected by the certifying agency. So we would know, for example, if someone presents as a minority-owned business, we would know whether or not that was an African-American business or some other minority classification.
Is it a goal or reporting of the facts after the contracts have been awarded.
No. I'm talking about the DBE African-American percentage. 15 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
You can't create the law. If the law says that you're allowed to break out the goals, you're allowed to break out the goals.
That's true. We have aspirational goals for different classifications, different minority classifications, but the definition of "minority business" includes those goals or those aspirations for various ethnic minorities depending upon their availability and also their use in the previous fiscal year.
So this Economic Opportunity Plan could in fact break out those goals within the classification of MBE to essentially have goals for African-American-owned businesses, particularly considering the fact that particularly in Philadelphia over 75 percent of the minority population is African-American and over half of the minority businesses are owned by African-Americans. So it is 16 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 particularly legitimate, legal and credible to break out a goal for African-Americans.
Yeah. There could definitely be a breakout. In fact, if you look at the City's participation report for last year on the minority companies who bid as prime contractors; for example, on construction contracts, the majority of those prime contracts were not held by African-American firms, but they were held by other minority groups.
Thank you. Ms. Young, what percentage of Philadelphia businesses are owned by African-Americans?
And what percentage of Philadelphia businesses are owned by minorities?
I'm sorry. 17 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 I said what percentage of Philadelphia businesses are owned by minorities?
Just a second. 2.8 percent in Pennsylvania and 15.8 percent in Philadelphia.
That's actually not the question I was asking. I did provide the cheat sheet, but I'm not following it totally. In Philadelphia, 15.8 percent of the businesses are owned by African-Americans.
9.5 percent of businesses are owned by Asians, 4.8 percent of businesses are owned by Hispanic-owned firms, which actually constitutes over 30 percent of the businesses in the City of Philadelphia. But in the state of Pennsylvania only 2.8 percent of firms are owned by African-Americans, only 2.6 percent are owned by Asian-owned firms and only 1.3 percent are owned by Latinos, hence why 18 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 we want to use Philadelphia numbers rather than Pennsylvania numbers, as I raised in the last hearing.
Yes. And that's what we intend to do, and as you raised just in this previous conversation, that we are certainly willing to break out the African-American-owned businesses and have that as a percentage as well.
Okay. Just a couple more questions since we're moving along. Did anyone actually read the City's disparity study?
Did anybody actually read the City's disparity study? I know the state did its own disparity study.
Our disparity study shows particular 19 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 underutilization of African-American male-owned companies in public works contracting, only 0.3 utilization, 1.0 equaling full utilization. Therefore, only 30 percent of available companies are being utilized. Are you familiar with that statistic?
The question is, were you familiar with the fact that our disparity study says that African-American male-owned companies in public works contracting are being particularly underutilized?
They only have a 0.3 percent utilization, 1.0 equalling full utilization. Therefore, only 30 percent of available companies that are owned by African-American males are being utilized for public works contracting. Were you aware of that?
Yes, I'm aware of 20 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 it. In fact, as I stated previously, there were no awards of prime construction contracts to African-American-owned businesses in the last fiscal year.
Does the state's disparity study show the same findings?
I don't have the Mason Tillman study in front of me. I don't believe it's a valid comparison necessarily because of the geographical differences. I mean, I believe the state Mason Tillman study was a five-region study and Philadelphia is only part of that, and our goals in Philadelphia are usually higher because we have a greater number of certified businesses.
We're actually not talking about goals right now. What we're talking about is a utilization study, and whether the numbers are the same in Philadelphia, within the region or on the state level, 21 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 I'm asking whether your disparity study showed a particular underutilization of African-American male-owned companies in public works contracting, because that's what our study shows.
I'm not as familiar with the Department of General Services study as I am the City's study. I have looked at it and I've read it and I believe it did find significant disparities, but I couldn't speak to it, because I don't have it in front of me.
Is there anything within the state's disparity study that suggests how we address that type of underutilization?
And what does it say about addressing the underutilization of African-American male-owned companies in public works contracting?
Well, it talked 22 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 about that there needed to be outreach in particular, that there were no firms that were grown over a period of time that they were aware of, and about the lack of opportunities for these prime contractors.
And do you believe that has any impact on black male unemployment?
Well, I think the -- I mean, this is my editorializing it at this point, because, of course, I am not an expert in the area, but certainly if there were more prime contractors who were African-American male, by definition, there certainly would be more opportunities given to other subcontractors who were males and there would be more opportunities for hiring African-American males. So I think it does have a relationship. 23 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
Okay. Our disparity study also tracked DBE utilization availability in 2006 versus 1998 to 2003. DBE availability and utilization decreased in public works contracting but increased in contracting related to both personal and professional services, as well as services, supplies and equipment. Did your disparity study have similar findings?
Are there separate contracting goals for these three areas, public works, personal and professional services, and services, supplies and equipment?
The contracting goals that was certainly suggested to us at our last hearing we are going to incorporate now, but they had not been prior to this.
But the question is, are you going to break them 24 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 out by contract category in terms of public works, personal and professional services, and service, supply and equipment in view of the fact that there's varying capacity? The capacity of disadvantaged businesses has decreased in the area of public works, but has increased in the area of personal and professional services, as well as services, supplies and equipment. And so in order to maximize economic opportunity, are you going to break out separate goals in order to reach the overall goal?
Yes, absolutely. In fact, that gives us the greatest opportunity to make those goals.
If I could respond, Ahmeenah. Councilman, on , you'll see that the categorizations of the aspirational goals is different. There's 25 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 no distinction that's made between the design and the professional services contracts, many of which have already been let and the work has been done from the sealed bid, the public works type contracts. What we've attempted --
What we've attempted to do as part of this effort to cast the net more widely is to utilize the concept of responsibility and the commitment to these aspirational goals as part of that eligibility.
My question is whether there are separate goals for different contract categories. Is there an actual DBE goal for public works? Is there a DBE goal for personal and professional services? Is there a DBE goal for services, supply and equipment? Is it broken down that way in terms of separate areas of contracting?
And I think as I had 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 testified, no, there is not.
Do you believe we can increase DBE participation by having separate targets for these categories?
Because I think the most difficult area in connection with applying these aspirational goals is in connection with the sealed bid or the public works contracts, as you mentioned. What we have attempted to do -- and I think we had testimony to this effect from Mr. Eisenstadt last Friday that the state has also done a similar process at the Authority -- is that we've attempted to use the commitment to these aspirational goals as a responsibility issue. Before you even get to the issue of comparing price, we want to know whether somebody is committed to this kind of participation effort. In other words, if we went 27 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 strictly by the state law and the city law on public works contracts and you did not build in this up-front process that we have attempted to build in, you would make a decision only on the basis of price, and at the lowest bidder, you would not look at the color or the gender of the lowest bidder. What we've attempted to do is up front say that we think this is such an important issue, it goes to the essence of responsibility of a bidder and, therefore, we want to know whether people are committed to these aspirational goals first.
Mr. Diaz, the question I'm asking is, if you're trying to reach an overall contracting goal of 35 percent for disadvantaged businesses and you know that capacity may be limited in one area but expanding in other areas, is there an attempt to look at increasing percentage goals in certain areas over others? In other words, you're not seeking to do 35 percent 28 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 across the board. So in order to achieve 35 percent, if you're trying to achieve 35 percent, doesn't it mean that you have to look at the different areas, public works, personal and professional services, and service, supplies and equipment and those type of things, separately in terms of goal-setting in order to achieve the overall goal?
I think the answer is that this commitment reflected in this EOP is the 35 percent overall aspirational goal for minority participation. Recognizing that it is more difficult in the public works contract area to achieve, we would try to build in a process by which we could do it, but I think the expectation is that we're going to have success in all areas to the extent those contracts have not been let. Many of these professional services contracts with regard to architecture and design have already been let. That work has been done. But the 29 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 35 percent is applicable to all categories.
Ms. Young, can we increase DBE participation by recruiting DBE general contractors from elsewhere if they're available?
So if we actually go out to try to find DBE general contractors, whether they're available locally or within the state, probably not, but even nationally, can we actually increase overall DBE participation by recruiting any DBE general contractors that exist out there?
Yes, and that's what the plan calls for, that we would go out beyond the borders of our Commonwealth to find certified firms that could do work here on this project to 30 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 increase the numbers.
One last question for you, Ms. Young, and then I have a question again for Mr. Diaz. When do you envision local DBE contractors receiving general contract work in public works contracts? When is a local firm ever going to get a general contract?
When do you envision any local DBE firm ever receiving a general contract for public works contracting?
I think are you suggesting, Councilman, that you want to know when a local minority or woman-owned or disabled-owned business might be a prime contractor?
What we are hoping is that through this process of casting the net widely, allowing the 31 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 certification from any post state to be reciprocally accepted by the three authorities.
The question was local firm. When is a local firm going to receive a prime contract? Five years? Ten years? Fifteen years?
Right. I have no 12 idea. I have no way to be able to determine when in the future we'll be able to award a prime contractor. We wish it was sooner than later.
Well, wouldn't bringing in an African-American prime contractor from outside address that issue in terms of capacity building of local contractors?
That's what I thought, Councilman, was the guidance that we heard last Friday and that's why we built into this EOP an opportunity to bring out-of-town, out-of-state 32 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 contractors who are minority so that they could help build local capacity, and because of the time frame associated with the construction activities, we've provided for acceptance of reciprocal certification to do that.
But if you don't use a prime contractor on the largest public works project in the history of the Commonwealth, if you don't use one on this project -- you already know the other prime contractors have not and will not build the capacity of local minority contractors to ever receive a prime contract. Is that not true? It got quiet in here.
I understand -- I don't know if that's true, but I understand that there is a desire to build local capacity.
Do you understand there's never been a prime contractor that's been African-American or minority, right, on a public works 33 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 contract?
No, that's not true. No. Well, that's not true for the City of Philadelphia. We have had prime awards to minority contractors or African-American.
Yeah, on public works. Very, very few, and there were none in the last fiscal year, that is true.
I'm sure I could send that to you. I would have to look back in the archives, but there have been awards -- I'm being honest when I tell 34 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 you there were no awards in the last fiscal year. I can look in our records.
You get my point. If there's not local capacity and if there is more than a perception but reality that prime contractors are never trying to build up local subcontractors who receive prime contract work, then the only way we're ever going to achieve it is if we bring in people in other places that are not as backwards, where African-Americans actually receive prime contracts on major construction projects and they are allowed to come in and build the capacity of local subcontractors so that they can get to the point where they receive prime contracts. And if you don't do it on this, the largest public works contract in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, then you're still full of crap.
Well, if there's a question there, the answer would be, Councilman, that's what we've attempted 35 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 to build into this EOP, because the earlier version that you saw did not contemplate a reissuance of the pre-qualification, did not contemplate acceptance of reciprocal certifications from outside jurisdictions, and what we are attempting to do is to allow for that possibility of a non-local minority contractor to come in as a prime.
Mr. Diaz, let me ask you a question that you can answer. Is "aspirational goals" a legal term?
I believe so. I have used it in a legal context and I think the courts probably have accepted that term.
From a legal perspective, Councilman, we have to characterize them as aspirational, otherwise they are deemed a quota or a sure standard, and it's something that we are legally prohibited from doing under the Crossin case and its progeny. 36 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
The colloquy that I had with Councilman Clarke last Friday I think is an example. We would issue the pre-qualification document. We would include in it 35 percent minority participation, percent women 10 participation as an aspirational goal. 11 We would want to see whether the 12 contractors who want to bid and not yet 13 eligible to bid, we want to know about 14 their eligibility or do they agree with 15 that, will they accept that.
And, lastly, we're going to break out an African-American goal, aren't we?
We're going to break out an African-American goal within the 35 percent, aren't we?
I think what I heard is that Ms. Young said the Authority would be prepared to do that. 37 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good morning. Let me first thank you for honoring the request to make sure that it was in writing or is in writing that both the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and the African-American Chamber of Commerce is in the text of the amendment, and the same for Philadelphia OIC. With the other agencies that you mention on , will these organizations have to bid for the opportunity to provide training to the Convention Center or have you thought through how all of these opportunities get a fair shake at training?
We're hoping that 38 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 we don't have to go through a bid process, Councilwoman. What we'd like to do is to reach out to them, to use them in a consultative role, as a referral funnel that we can go to and do it on an equal basis. I mean, we don't want to just -- as you're stating, we don't want to just narrowly use one, but we want to use all of them.
Last week, Ms. Young, you responded to Councilman DiCicco's question regarding the continued interest in the lack of people of color and women in the building trade stage of any building that takes place in the City. On of your testimony, you talk about the apprentice piece and you actually walked us through still the challenges from going from apprentice to journeyman. Does this new language address the question raised by Councilman Frank DiCicco last Friday? The top paragraph on . 39 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 I guess what I'm looking for and what I don't see -- and correct me if I'm wrong, because this is legal language -- does the Convention Center have teeth to hold contractors accountable for ensuring that those who come in as apprentices actually do find their way in the pipeline to become journeymen?
That is not in there. What we are hoping is that we are setting up a process and a precedent, that we would be able to go to the various programs that currently have apprenticeship and, as Councilwoman Tasco so aptly put it, sit by the phone waiting for a phone call so they can actually have a place where they are working, and what the Convention Center is planning to do is to cause that to occur, that we have the project and we are putting pressure in terms of our documents for our construction that in this process that all the contractors, contractors who 40 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 are working on this site, that they have the apprentices that come through our referral program, and these apprentices are then full-fledged apprentices. So that they're not the Authority's apprentices, but they are apprentices in the full sense of the word on that job site. So we're providing the job site and we're providing the sponsorship by the contractors who are going to work on the site.
Okay. I think I followed that. So how do they move to journeymen then and how does the Convention Center exercise its teeth to ensure that those apprentices make the leap?
What we are doing, Councilperson, is getting the apprenticeship certified, because, of course, we can't make those decisions that the unions ultimately make.
The union -- as you well know, apprentices could be on the site and the union can decide that that apprentice would go to another site. So what we are attempting to do in this program is provide two things, a construction site and sponsorship by the contractors who are on the site.
And those two steps are unprecedented compared to other public works projects?
If I could just add one more thing. There's a new concept in here of a pre-apprentice, a new apprentice. In other words, in addition to assuring a certain number of hours are going to be available for apprentices so that they can grow to the journeyman level, you also are bringing in new folks who can be certified and are -- and at least 50 percent of the hours that are to be given to apprentices on the job are going to be new people who have never 42 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 been in an apprenticeship program at all.
All right. Thank you. Related to the Convention Center but unrelated to this amendment, for the record, what is the formula for the selection of Convention Center Board members? How does one end up being --
Albert Mezzaroba, President and CEO of the Convention Center Authority. I have to apologize, Councilwoman. I didn't hear the question. Could you please repeat it?
Not a problem at all. Unrelated to this amendment but very much related to the Convention Center, how does one ultimately win the prize to be a Convention Center Board member? What's the formula? What's the process? 43 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
We're governmental appointees. City Council gets two appointees. One is the District Councilperson where the Convention Center resides, which is Frank DiCicco. Then the Minority Leader makes an appointment, and that would be Brian O'Neill. The four counties, surrounding counties, get an appointment. Each caucus in Harrisburg gets an appointment. Then the Governor gets two appointments. Those 13 elect an outside Chair. And the Mayor 14 gets two appointments. So that constitutes 14 members, and the 14 members then elect an outside Chair.
I see. Are there any women currently on the Board at the Convention Center?
Different question, again related to the Convention Center. Is there or have there been any discussions around expectations with what are now known as sustainable strategies 44 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 in the design and construction of the Center?
Anything in the language or the text of the bill 7 that speaks to LEED standards?
No, and part of that was, we looked at LEEDs early on, and as you know, LEEDs requires usually a higher capital investment and typically over time, there's a formula where you -- there's an analysis where it's typically cheaper to operate, but there's a larger capital investment. Based on the fact that we've probably been busting the budget for the last two years we've been designing, there are no real LEEDs that we have incorporated at this point.
So is that a missed opportunity? Is it too late to revisit that new emerging standard for new construction?
If we find something, we'd be glad to institute it, 45 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 but to say that we would be a LEED-certified building, we've missed that opportunity, that's correct.
Okay. Let me just double-check. Thank you, Madam President. That's it.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to go back to the apprenticeship program. Apprentices work for various labor unions. You have the various trades. And so how do you sort of like coalesce the two, your program with the building trades apprenticeship program? Because I don't know technically how they connect. Do you have, I guess, a cooperation of the building trades in your program or were you getting pushed back from that? 46 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994
We are meeting with the trades. In fact, yesterday we met with Palm (ph), who is their representative, and there is an exchange that's going on, and, as you know, Councilwoman, it is not easy. The trades have not been asked to do what we are presenting as a program in a while. Unfortunately, we don't have an ongoing construction program. So we see this as an important opportunity to take advantage, where we can, to include more minorities and women on these job sites. There is a ratio between the number of journeymen and apprentices for each trade on the job site, and we are using those ratios, as well as the overall number of hours that the trades union will have on a site like that. So the CM makes a projection about how many workers, and then they are able to look at, from that amount of workers, how many hours, and then each trade has a ratio between journeymen and apprentices on a 47 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 site, how many will be there, and what we've asked for is 50 percent of those hours, of the apprentices that are going to be on that work site.
We have an Oversight Committee that is going to review not only our contracting opportunities but our work site workforce. And if because through the process a contractor has to sponsor -- and we've put that in the documents. We're going to treat it in the same way in terms of enforcement and penalties that we would if a subcontractor or a contractor was out of compliance. So if someone came in and said that they were going to have percent 21 minority participation, this Oversight 22 Committee sees it and if they don't do 23 that, then there is hearing and penalties 24 and it's described in it. We want to do 25 the same process for anyone who is out of 48 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 compliance in those hours on the job.
So really the person responsible for the compliance with this program is really the contractor?
Well, yes, the contractor, because ultimately we can hold someone's paycheck, and that is the ultimate enforcement. But we have ongoing monitoring through certified payrolls. So everyone has to have their hours on that, and we review these payrolls.
And the payrolls will identify the categories of the workers, which is how the enforcement or compliance is handled, Councilwoman.
And so your goal is to recruit and include those individuals who have not had an opportunity to work on construction sites but may have the skill and wherewithal to do that and not necessarily those people who are already in the apprenticeship 49 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 program?
So your goal is to get new people and not necessarily people already in apprenticeships? You know, we got a lot of apprenticeship programs.
Every time we do a program, there's an apprenticeship program, but we never see those people go to work. They stay in the apprenticeship program forever.
Until the project is over, then they go to the next apprenticeship program to get on the project. So it's a revolving door for people, so they never get to the journeyman level or ever get into the 50 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 union, and at the end of the day, my concern is how many of them really make it.
In fact, the emphasis is on new, and these are people who have not been on a site, been in programs before. So we're getting those people there.
Okay. But your goal here -- suppose you can't reach the goal that you want with the new people. Will you take apprentices that already may be apprentices in a trade union apprenticeship program to fill the gap if they meet the minority quota, minority goal?
I understand. We are working with about six or eight programs that have apprentices in them that have trained them. We're not going to create yet another apprenticeship 51 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 program, as you just so eloquently spoke to. We're going to use those places that have already trained. But we are not in the apprenticeship training business.
Now, based on your experience -- and you've been in this business a long time -- do you see this really working?
I do. This is the first time I have felt really enthusiastic about this, and if we get the cooperation from the areas that we do, I think it's going to be unprecedented. We should be able to do this. So I do. I certainly feel more positive about this than in past years when we just said we want to make sure that we have X amount of apprentices on the site, without having a program that is monitoring, without having -- and we have an administrator for this program. It's going to be Jim Roundtree, as we planned, and we're going to be able to 52 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 support people through every level, and at least all of the issues that traditionally kept people out, we think that we have anticipated them. We're going to have staff in place. We're going to have the monitoring. We're going to be on the site. We're going to be vigilant about it, and we're going to call the unions in when there is a problem.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
A couple of 53 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 quick questions. The minority participation program that was initially submitted to us and subsequently amended, was that presentation or plan given to the Board of the Convention Center for their review?
Yes. The initial program that we went through the development and having a disparity program and coming up with the numbers, yes.
Were there any concerns raised at that review process by members of the Board at all, given the obvious significant concerns that were raised by this Council? I'm just wondering.
Absolutely, Councilman. First of all, when we went out to do the disparity study and the numbers came back to us -- and that would have been Duane Morris with Nolan Atkinson and myself -- we were appalled at the numbers. We then said to the 54 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 consultant, Go back out, there must be a mistake here, we cannot accept these numbers. So we were as concerned as you were. Our Board was concerned.
I'm talking to, first, when we commissioned the study and we commissioned that with the help of Duane Morris, the company was Mason Tillman. When she initially set out to do the research and we received the first draft of these numbers, that week was concern.
You keep saying "we." Are you saying "we" as only you and Duane Morris? The question was --
Yes, the Board. 55 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 Yes, the Board was concerned.
And so the assumption is that questions were raised about this low percentage?
So was there a need to change the percentage? I guess I'm wondering, how could this have passed the muster at the Convention Center Board? And now you're saying that there were concerns raised, significant concerns, but yet it was sent over here.
See, our market area was the Commonwealth, because, as you know, the whole process -- that market area was the Commonwealth, and those were the numbers. The Board was concerned. Councilman, now we have --
The question is, did they do anything other 56 12/4/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070994 than just be concerned?