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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 5, 2003

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 5, 2003

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1681 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, March 5, 2003 10:05 a.m. - - - BILL 030004 BILL 030008 BILL 030010 - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DI CICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - V A R A L L O, INCORPORATED Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 1682 I N D E X WITNESS PAGE EDWARD MCLAUGHLIN, Commissioner, L&I ....... 1683 ROBERT SOLVIBILE, Licenses and Inspections . 1688 RICHARD FELDGUS, Licenses and Inspections .. 1694 DOMINIC VERDI, Licenses and Inspections .... 1704 DAVID PERRY, Licenses and Inspections ...... 1720 RICHARD FELDGUS, L&I Review Board .......... 1846 RICHARD FELDGUS, Board of Building Standards 1847 RICHARD FELDGUS, Zoning Board of Adjustment. 1849 CLARENA TOLSON, Streets Department ......... 1853 KUMAR KISHINCHAND, Water Department ......... 1935 1683 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Verna

Good morning, everyone. Before we start our proceedings this morning, I would like to acknowledge my colleague's birthday. Councilman Rizzo, Happy birthday. (Applause.)

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you.

Councilwoman Verna

This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill Nos. 030004, 030008, 030010. The first department to testify is L&I. Good morning, Commissioner. Good morning, gentlemen.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Good morning.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I am Edward J. McLaughlin, Commissioner of the Department of Licenses and Inspections. The first thing I'd like to do is sincerely thank all Members of Council for your unwavering support of the Department of Licenses and Inspections. And I do that on behalf of all the people in L&I and our customers, because your support will make it easier for our customers 1684 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to deal with us. Accompanying me today are my First Deputy Commissioner Robert Solvibile and Deputy Commissioners David Perry, Dominic Verdi, and our Administrative Service Director Richard Feldgus. Also with us today are Otis Haigler, Legislative Affairs Director; Bridget Greenwald, Human Resources Manager; Eileen Evans, Contractual Services Director; and Jim Weiss who is our Information Technology Services Director. We appreciate this opportunity to present our Fiscal Year Operating Budget request to City Council and to provide you with information about the Department's recent accomplishments and our plans for the upcoming fiscal year. The Department of Licenses and Inspections is requesting a total Fiscal Year '04 budget of $60,594,635, of which $21,194,862 is in the City's General Fund. In our General Fund budget we have a net increase of $1,386,839 from our Fiscal '03 estimated obligations. This increase is due primarily to additions to Class 200 and 400 funds to purchase the necessary software and software licenses, handheld devices, and professional support 1685 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET services required to fully automate crucial departmental functions. Offsetting this increase is the transfer of $2 million of General Fund demolition appropriations that will be handled in Fiscal Year '04 through the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. This budget supports General Fund staffing of 399 positions versus the Fiscal Year '03 average of 415 positions for the Department. The decrease in positions is due primarily to the transfer of employees to the Department of Public Property for the new 311 call center initiative. Our accomplishments. Public safety. The key to an effective life safety program is getting people out of buildings in an emergency. And L&I has the responsibility to make sure our codes and enforcement programs are designed to do that. As you know, we have the best Fire Department in our country. Our record low in fire deaths can be contributed to our combined efforts. Nightclub inspections. We are currently part of the Managing Director's team who are involved in setting a course of education, 1686 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET inspection, and regulatory review for nightclubs. A final report is due to the Mayor by April 23rd of this year. Our pier inspection bill. The bill 6 requires that piers and similar structures be maintained and periodic inspection reports from a registered engineer to L&I attesting to the structural integrity of the piers. The first reports were due in January of this year. They have all been received. They are now due once every three years. Demolitions. L&I successfully partners with the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. Over 50 percent of Fiscal Year '03 demolition spending has been awarded to minority firms. Construction activity. L&I is streamlining and simplifying the construction permitting process. Some of the many major actions taken are decreasing certain permit fees, creation of prepaid roofing permits, and elimination of plan review for single family and small commercial electrical wiring projects. Computerization. We have established a complaint system, a back office process for 1687 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET dangerous buildings. And we anticipate start-up of the dynamic portal by the end of this fiscal year and the use of handheld computers as well. I would also like to thank Councilmembers for approval of the license fees that were needed to accomplish this. Our Drexel University project.

Mr. Mclaughlin

The Department has entered into a partnership with Drexel University in Fiscal Year '02. We are establishing a code administration training program that will provide departmental staff with the knowledge and skills needed to enforce the building codes that have been adopted on a statewide basis. These classes are expected to continue until approximately 180 L&I employees who are required to be state certified, complete their training, and gain the necessary state certifications. Our major changes involve consolidating permits, licenses, and implementation of the State Code. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Councilwoman Verna

Thank you very much, Commissioner. 1688 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET What is the projected cost of an average residential demolition for FY '03?

Mr. Mclaughlin

The average cost is $8,727.

Councilwoman Verna

I'm sorry, 8,000 --

Mr. Mclaughlin

727. That's just the demolition. We have the asbestos which is 150; the stucco, the average cost is $5,073; barge board average cost is 693. For a total average treatment of that demolition and the adjoining property, $14,643.

Councilwoman Verna

Commissioner, in your testimony, you are saying that the average residential demolition for FY '03 is estimated to be approximately $24 million for 2,000 properties. It doesn't add up. That would come to like 12,000 a property.

Mr. Mclaughlin

You're referring to NTI? I'm not testifying about NTI.

Councilwoman Verna

We're referring to your testimony. Does your testimony refer to NTI or is it L&I? It's the bottom of , the top of .

Mr. Solvibile

Council President, that 1689 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET includes the NTI demolitions. The $2 million that L&I will have is for buildings that are collapsing and need emergency curb-side treatment.

Councilwoman Verna

Why is it costing that much more for NTI? Commissioner, you didn't identify yourself.

Mr. Solvibile

I apologize. Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner Licenses and Inspections.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Why is it costing so much more under NTI? And, Commissioner, your testimony, you really don't identify it as NTI. It's the bottom of of your testimony and the top of .

Mr. Solvibile

Council President, this would count the use of NTI money for coming in the next fiscal year. In addition to our money -- this will include the NTI demolitions that will be done working with the Councilperson staff and determining what will be demolished in the districts. In addition, L&I will handle exclusively the buildings that are collapsing and require curb-side 1690 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET demolitions.

Councilwoman Verna

Who is actually doing the demolition these days? Is it L&I? Do we have an outside contractor? Let's get everything on the record so that there's no misunderstanding in the future.

Mr. Solvibile

The Department of Licenses and Inspections hires private contractors through the Procurement Department to demolish buildings from a list of contractors that's pre-approved. As a matter of fact, we are advertising now for contractors to submit to us an application if they wish to become involved in our curb-side program in the coming fiscal year.

Councilwoman Verna

With your what program?

Mr. Solvibile

Curb-side demolition program.

Councilwoman Verna

So you're not only addressing the demolition of structurally dangerous buildings, but you're also dealing with the regular demolition that we're going to be doing under NTI?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, that's correct.

Councilwoman Verna

That's not going to 1691 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET take us very far at the rate we're going with the amount of money that it's costing for demolition per property. Commissioner, you state in your testimony that you cleaned 1,080 vacant lots in FY '02, and 798 in FY '03. And in your performance statement, you project 753 in FY '04. Why has the number of lots declined in each year? How many times do you clean a lot? What happens if the lot has to be cleaned again?

Mr. Solvibile

The Department uses for lot cleaning -- which is separate from the Managing Director's program. And the reason it's separate, we use first offenders that work with our clean and seal people, they have for years, to do lots for us. In addition to what the Managing Director's task force for vacate lots is doing, I believe that number is in excess of 31,000 lots in the City of Philadelphia that have been cleaned. And we use our first offenders program to supplement that program, and the figures that we're giving here are figures that the Department of L&I, using the first offenders program, has completed. They're in addition to what the Managing Director's staff has 1692 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET done doing the 31,000 lots in the City.

Councilwoman Verna

Well, I think it would have been nice to include that in the testimony. Your performance statement has you cleaning and sealing 3,012 buildings in FY '04, up from 1587 in FY '03. Who will perform these services? Will it be City workers or will it be done through contractors?

Mr. Solvibile

City workers. The Department has roughly 55 to 60 personnel in our clean and seal division at 25th and South. Council President, that's roughly 11 crews, 9 to 11 crews we have available if everyone's in work in any given day.

Councilwoman Verna

Are they going to be able to do all of these additional clean and seals? Have they been on board with us for a period of time?

Mr. Solvibile

The Managing Director has given us an additional 10 personnel that we've hired in the last two years, so that should be able to increase our productivity. Also, we're trying to make them work a little bit more efficiently. We've 1693 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET gotten some better equipment for them than they had. As an example, they used to work out of dump trucks which were hard to load the debris into. We have trucks that they can lock, and it's just better -- we're better equipping and better training and working to get a more productive crew.

Councilwoman Verna

How long have we had the 55 to 60 personnel?

Mr. Solvibile

The 55 personnel are full-time personnel. We have an additional 10, and that has been for about the last two to two and a half years, Council President.

Councilwoman Verna

I don't understand. If you have them and you're not getting -- if you don't have any additional personnel -- are you getting the 10 additional personnel and you're almost doubling what you did in FY '03? How is that possible?

Mr. Solvibile

The Chief of clean and seal has said that that's the number he can do because of changes that he's making in his operation to improve it.

Councilwoman Verna

What kind of changes? 1694 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

Better deployment of the crews, better planning of the work. If they're on a block and there's one building that they've been asked to clean and seal through a request and they see another vacant building there, they'll seal both, they'll treat both buildings. And it's just more efficient to do it that way because they're there already. They don't have to leave and come about back.

Councilwoman Verna

So my question would be, why aren't we doing it now?

Mr. Solvibile

We are doing that now, Council President. We started that in the middle of this fiscal year.

Councilwoman Verna

On -28 of the budget detail, you show $1.6 million in FY '02 to Hill International for NTI project management. Is Hill still providing those services or is another firm providing the services? And can you also tell us how they are currently being paid and in what amount?

Mr. Feldgus

Hill is still providing the services. This money in 2002 was before the NTI grant monies were available. Now Hill is being paid 1695 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET out of the NTI grant monies rather than through the L&I General Fund budget. I am Richard Feldgus, Administration Services Director for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. So Hill is still involved in the NTI program.

Councilwoman Verna

Can you tell how much they were paid in '03?

Mr. Feldgus

We don't have -- that would be coming out of the NTI grant revenue. We'll get you that information.

Councilwoman Verna

Whose budget would that be in? It should be out of your budget, I would think.

Mr. Feldgus

It's approximately $2 million.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We have that information here. We can get it to you.

Councilwoman Verna

And how much is projected for '04?

Mr. Feldgus

At this point, we don't have the information on that. We'll have to get that from NTI as to what they're projecting to pay 1696 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Hill for this year.

Councilwoman Verna

Can you tell us what services are being provided?

Mr. Feldgus

Hill basically is providing oversight over the NTI demolition programs. We work with them in terms of surveying the areas, working with the community. They're actually doing the day-to-day oversight over the demolition project.

Mr. Solvibile

Council President, Robert Solvibile again. They sit down with us and Council staff and we go over case house by house what will be demolished or encapsulated when we met with the district councilperson staff to decide what's going to happen in their area. They also hire other organizations to come and provide mapping and go on the surveys with us and they also work with our inspector on managing the demolition site.

Councilman Cohen

Point of information, Madam President.

Councilwoman Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Who are the "they" you're referring to. 1697 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

I'm sorry, Councilman Cohen. Hill International is the "they." The question is, what services does Hill International provide NTI and L&I in doing deal demolitions for the NTI program.

Councilman Cohen

Well, aren't they duplicating the same work that L&I does regularly? I don't know why L&I who, to me, seems to be the premiere organization in demolition, why you would be discussing with people knowing much less about the situation than you do what ought to be done. I would trust your judgment far quicker than I would trust anybody else's judgment.

Mr. Solvibile

They bring to us expertise that enhances our expertise, and we do work together very well with Hill. It's nice to have another pair of eyes with our inspector while we're doing the demolition. It's a good relationship between the two of us. They enhance our services. They don't replace, they're just assisting us. It's a team concept that we've used, and it's work so far in the two areas that we've surveyed for demolition, and working with the District Councilperson, in Strawberry Mansion and 1698 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET now in Frankford where we are doing NTI demolitions. It's worked out. It's a good relationship. It's worked well and it's helped to serve the community and the Department's needs very well.

Councilman Cohen

Well, on the basis of acknowledging that you're good soldiers in an army, I accept your answer. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome, sir. Commissioner, what is the criteria that a property must meet in order for it to be encapsulated?

Mr. Mclaughlin

We're looking at properties that are located on strong blocks where it would make sense to spend money to keep people from focussing on a bad house and being frightened that that kind of condition is going to spread to the rest of the block. So that if we can treat, one, two, three houses on a block to strengthen that block, to overall strengthen the block -- and then the property itself has to be within the range of reasonableness in bringing that property back to some state of acceptability in the community. 1699 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Verna

Can you tell us how many structures have been encapsulated during FY '03 and how many are anticipated for FY '04?

Mr. Solvibile

Council President, the FY '04 encapsulations will be done in concert with the District Councilperson, and I'm not sure -- that's a question that NTI would have to answer as to how much is allocated to that. But there is money in the bond proceeds set aside for encapsulation, and I'm not quite sure of the amount, what the amount is.

Councilwoman Verna

Maybe we are of a mis-impression, but don't you contract with PHA for the encapsulation?

Mr. Solvibile

It's one of the contractors we would use, yes, Philadelphia Housing Authority.

Councilwoman Verna

Have we done any encapsulations in '03?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes. We're getting that answer for you now. We have paperwork here that we're looking for.

Councilwoman Verna

And while you're checking the paperwork, can you tell us how much the 1700 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET average cost is to encapsulate or give us the ballpark figure?

Mr. Solvibile

We've done 48 this year so far, Council President. I believe the average cost is roughly $7500.

Councilwoman Verna

I know there are a number of Councilmembers wanting to be recognized. I just have a couple more questions, if I may. Commissioner McLaughlin, one of the initiatives included in the Five-Year Plan is to eliminate clerical staff in L&I and hire 13 additional inspectors. This initiative is projected 14 to generate an additional $2 million over the life 15 of the plan. Will you explain the time frame and 16 what means will the 20 clerks be let go? Will that 17 be attrition, through layoff? Are they in the DROP 18 Program? Can you give us some insight about the 19 reduction of 20 clerks? 20 How many clerical personnel do you have?

Mr. Mclaughlin

I'll get you that answer. The answer -- we started, for example, with Verilaw (ph) which is a partnership between us and the courts. And in the process of doing that, we eliminated the need for two clerks. Now, those 1701 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET clerks went to other places in the organization where we would have had to hire two clerks to fill those positions. The automation that Council has helped us get will do the same thing throughout the system. And we anticipate that happening to such an extent that we will be able to do what we've done in the past. Those clerks will disappear as clerks, hopefully pass tests to become inspectors and move right through the organization in that way. So we don't anticipate layoffs. We do anticipate the automation allowing us to reallocate our personnel and need less clerks. I'll give you another example. Currently in a pilot program, nine of our inspectors are using handheld computers. They're inputting the inspectional data into the system. It goes right into the back office process and violations get printed out and the whole thing takes place. We have eliminated clerks in that process. If you could just think about that process. The old way was the inspector, he or she writes it down on a piece of paper, brings it back and hands it to somebody else. Somebody else types in the violation. Well, that person doesn't have to do 1702 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that anymore. So that's just an example of the way that we see a real efficiency coming as a result of our operation and then turning those positions into inspector positions that will generate more revenue into the General Fund.

Councilwoman Verna

How many inspector positions will you be hiring?

Mr. Feldgus

Right now we're contemplating, I believe the Five-Year Plan says five additional inspectors. And the answer to your question before about clerks, we have 80 clerical employees in the Department right now. So we would be planning to reduce that number down to about 60.

Councilwoman Verna

At this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Commissioner and Deputy Commissioners and everyone else. Again, I just want to focus something that you mentioned about Code. I learned that there are certain exemptions that exist that don't require 1703 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the City of Philadelphia in City buildings to meet the Code. And again, you know what I'm going to talk about here. I hear the Fire Department has a board that allows the City buildings to not conform. Perfect example. This building, there's no panic bars on the doors on the ground floor. They are dead bolted. If you don't have a key, you don't get out of this building. Could you send a report to the Chair explaining all such variances that exist throughout the City at City buildings that do not meet Code pertaining to fire, pertaining to sprinklers, pertaining to whatever we would want a private sector business to do? I see there's a little conversation going on about the panic bars. See this key? This is a key to City Hall. I'm a Councilman, I have the key. A lot of other people that work in this building don't have a key. If there's an emergency, you don't get out of this building other than one corner after 6 p.m. at night; that's the northeast corner. If there's an emergency, smoke, fire, you go northwest corner, you need this key. For years now I've been asking about that, and I'm told that there's a variance that doesn't require the City 1704 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET government to do what the rest of the world does. Could you comment on that?

Mr. Verdi

Dominic Verdi, Deputy Commissioner of Licenses and Inspections. Councilman, we have addressed this before. There is issues, when the building is open publically, all doors have to be not locked. The building is open to the public, my understanding, until 6:00 p.m. We have addressed certain issues in areas of the building that were involved with different sectors that work after hours. There is a variance on this building for sprinkler systems and there is a variance involving the doors, being the building is of historical nature and nature of the building itself. As you requested, we'll get you the copies of the variances. And the statement that City buildings are not required to abide by the Fire Code is incorrect. We have gone through this building and we have been in long talks with Public Property. In reference to your sprinkler system -- and maybe Dave can expand on it. The building is being retrofitted as the building is renovated, not to destroy the nature of the building. If this room 1705 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET were to be renovated tomorrow, it would be required to be attached to the sprinkler system. So there's an ongoing variance that was given from the Fire Department to the City in reference to the building. And as far as the doors are being locked, after 6:00 p.m., the building is closed to the public. Therefore, it's not really required to have that type of locking device due to the variance that was received. But again, we'll look into the variance and if there's any problems, we'll contact Public Property immediately.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I'm not talking about the real sophisticated things that you mentioned like sprinkler systems. But even though it's not open to the public, there's staff working in this building, there are many people, communications working in this building. And in the event of an emergency in this building, to find your way for a block in smoke or whatever to try to get to an actual exit, I would hate to see bodies piled up at the bottom of the staircase and only a few feet to go where they --

Mr. Verdi

I'll get copies of the 1706 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET variances. We'll review them and send you a report.

Councilman Rizzo

I just want to understand before we go to another issue. I would bet Independence Hall -- you talk about historical nature, I would bet Independence Hall has panic bars on their doors. So I don't buy the fact that we're not doing that because of historical reasons. But you're telling me if an office building in Philadelphia Center City was shuts their operation down at 6:00 p.m. at night to the public that no 12 panic bars would be required on those doors.

Mr. Verdi

For instance, we'll use the First Union Center. The First Union Center is not required to have -- the locking devices on the doors are locked during days of non-operation. There are issues in that building that we're dealing with now. That building, for instance, most of their doors are locked during the day when there's no occupancy of the building. Again, until I take a look at the variance again to make sure what I'm explaining to you is correct, I'm really not sure as to what was given as a variance by either the Board of Building Standards or the Board of Fire Safety.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I can 1707 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET understand the First Union Center. They have dozens of exit doors because they want people to leave the venue as quickly as possible. So requiring them to unlock all of their doors during the day would be silly to make that requirement. But I think I've been around this block enough times knowing that they fought very hard not to require those doors to be open for another reason, because people were sneaking into the events. Somebody would block a panic bar, and people would come in that shouldn't. And people say about chaining doors shut and things like that -- not at the First Union Center. There's an answer to that. Hire security guards to make sure that those doors aren't blocked. But I don't want to go there. Other than the fact that I would hope that L&I enforces the Code equally. If we're going to require property managers to do the things that we need to get done, I want to make sure that City buildings are as safe as any other building in this town, especially this building, City Hall.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We will submit to the Chair a report on this building as far as the variance goes and the doors that have to be left open. 1708 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I want to assure you that generally we, right across the board -- I mean, it's a matter of procedure in L&I where City buildings are not treated differently. We don't focus on the building. We don't focus who the owner of the building is. We focus on the people, just like you did. We focus on the people that are in the building and can they get out of the building safely; are they safe when they're in building. So just because it's a City building doesn't mean that they're immune from L&I enforcement. It doesn't make any sense for us to issue violations against the City because, you know, what are we going to do, take the City to court? So that's what we have the Department of Public Property for. We meet with them. We meet with Public Property, not just about this building, but all City properties, recreation centers, police stations, fire stations, everything.

Councilman Rizzo

How about libraries?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Libraries. So it is something that I want to assure you that we are doing what you would hope that we're doing in reference to life safety.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I know 1709 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET L&I does a great job. You're all over the place, you're spread thin, but you do what you need to do. But my concern is that -- I know that when you send one of these violations -- you just mentioned about taking the City to court. I've tried to get some minor repairs done by Public Property, so that's another story in itself. But when you send one of these violations to Public Property, I'd be curious how seriously they take that. If you send a violation about the panic bars on City Hall doors, you did your part. You're the enforcement part. But I believe you're also the enforcement part to make sure that it is carried through to the fact that panic bars -- I think they don't take it as seriously as I would like them to.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I assure you that on life safety issues everything is a taken seriously. The variances that are given out on this building were given by the Fire Department. They're the people that have to respond to the fires. They gave out the variance. Whatever variance that we find exist on this building, it's not given out by us, it's not given out by anybody but the people who are responsible for fire conditions. 1710 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Rizzo

I'm not finished, but I'm going to yield to Councilman Nutter's point of information.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Councilman. My colleague Councilman Rizzo raises a very important issue about security generally in City Hall. I have said on many occasions, in contrast to other City buildings, in a complete pre-911 environment -- so at the moment I don't want to address post-911 security measures. Prior to that date, City Hall was one of the most non-secure, completely accessible, wide open buildings on a day-to-day basis that presents -- I'm not trying to be too dramatic -- but at times a clear and present danger to most of the people in the building, given the fact that virtually anyone can walk in this building at any time, at least up until 6 o'clock, go virtually anywhere they want to go with virtually anyone carrying anything. I have often said that you could virtually bring a bazooka into this building and no one would say a word to you, and might even help you get it in the elevator. People have left this building with boxes filled with 1711 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET equipment and other things, and no one said a word to them. Anyone can come in this building on a regular basis, unlike MSB, one Parkway, Criminal Justice Center, any other major building of the City. I have had staff confronted by people who either shouldn't be in the building or who do not have the best of intentions or have other issues and problems, because they were able to stay in the building overnight. It is one of the reasons why we're in this room in the first place, because water could run for an entire weekend, damage the northeast side of the building, virtually destroy the Council Chambers, the Mayor's Reception Room and a whole host of other floors in between, and no one ever knew that the water was running. So we clearly have many safety issues and security issues in this building. In a post-911 environment, we were told we were going to have security plan laid out. I believe it's not L&I's sole responsibility, but the Department of Public Property. But on the other hand, other than the communications folks who serve many of us way into the late hours of the night and early morning, I 1712 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET don't know if there are a hundred people or 50 people in this building post o'clock. I think I 4 read somewhere that there may be upwards of 14 5 different access points into this building. And it 6 seems to me that if we have a good evacuation plan for the people who work here after 6 o'clock and they know where to go, because even visitors know now that the only way to get out of this building after hours is on the northeast corner, I cannot imagine that we would have police officers or other security personnel at all of the entrance and exit points at 11 o'clock at night waiting for no one to come through those doors. In addition, if you can exit the building, you can enter the building. So even with the emergency bars and stop bars and all that, we can go back to the wonderful days of Watergate or anything that any of us has done as a child, a little piece of tape, a board, a something can be left to prop a door open at 4 o'clock in the afternoon to later be accessed to 10 o'clock at night. Now, I'm in the building sometimes in the evening and I have staff in the building 1713 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET sometimes in the building, and I'm more concerned about their safety and their ability not to be confronted with some of the strangest, most unusual people that might find City Hall, not just as architecture, but the fact that it is a safe, warm place that you can run around all night long and no 8 one know that you are here. We at least know that if someone's going to try to leave, they have to go from one location. Now, I think as we get our security plan for the building, many of the issues that the Councilman raised can certainly be revisited.

Councilman Nutter

But at the moment, now as just a user of the building, forget about my status, my title as a public servant in this building who is here on a regular basis after 6 o'clock in the evening, I actually feel a certain level of additional safety knowing that any of the nuts that might be running around in here -- and sometimes some of us qualify, or at least speaking for myself -- that they at least have to go out one place and that there are officers down there who are there to serve us and to protect us. So the people who have a need to be in the building and certainly at a responsible level, 1714 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET yes, do have keys. If for some reason you need to access the other side of the building, your car is over there, a person, whatever the case may be -- and I'm not suggesting that we give out a whole bunch more keys. I don't know who has keys. I keep mine, I'm responsible with it. But I'd like to strongly urge us to think about any other changes we might make to access or ingress or egress to this building especially in the nighttime hours. I want the people who work here to be safe; there's no 12 question about that. The Councilman and I are on the same page on that particular issue. And if we need to better educate folks about how to get out of this building, I'm all for that. But opening up those 14 access points at the moment and then having to staff them or secure them or make whatever additional capital expenditures we may make without the comprehensive security plan for the building, I think that we need to give some very serious thought to that. In terms of violations, you know, there are probably violations for the room that we're sitting in. And that doesn't mean that we shouldn't -- I mean, the government should not be 1715 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the first one breaking the law. And there are many safety issues in this particular building. And it undermines our ability to look citizens in the eye and say that we're looking out for thier interest when in many instances we work in government buildings that are not possibly up to our own standards of the Code. I think leading by example is very important. " I mean, it would be like a police officer giving another police officer a ticket. I mean, it's kind of silly at a certain level. But it doesn't mean that the behavior that you're trying to get at shouldn't be changed. I'm concerned about safety as much as the next person, but this nighttime environment around here can be pretty scary. Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Councilman, we agree with everything you've said. What you've talked about here spans the Police Department, Public Property, CPO and L&I. So I will bring this up with 1716 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the Managing Director and we will give you some type of report, I'm sure, on -- we will definitely give you a fire safety report from our fire enforcement side.

Councilman Nutter

Give it to the Chair. Certainly, any additional information that the Councilman asked for he should certainly be able to have. I don't think we have a big dispute. I understand the Councilman's individual concern with regard to how you get in and out of building. I just want to put some additional information on the record.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We understand and we will respond.

Councilman Rizzo

I appreciate that. And the L&I folks, you don't simply put panic bars on a door. The technology is when there's a door ajar or propped open, it sends a signal to a central control station to let a central security operator know there is a door ajar. There are ways, if you have the will and funding to make these improvements to a building, you can do it. You can overcome many of the obstacles that have persisted for years and years and years, but the technology today, there's 1717 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET wireless technology to show a door is not shut properly. We can do this if we want to. I'll appreciate seeing that report. I have a couple other questions about the Licenses and Inspections responsibilities. It's kind of strange that L&I is in the business of cleaning lots. Even though you do it, it's hard for me to explain to someone why you'd be doing that. I can understand boarding up a vacant building. But that leads to me to, since you do that, there are other issues that we're dealing with right now. A plumber digs a hole in the street. And they are supposed to restore that street to a particular standard that is outlined, I assume, by the Streets Department or some standard that they're supposed to make those repairs. What I'm finding is that many of these excavations -- give you an example. If you've ever driven northbound on either 17th or 18th and you get to one of those number streets at Arch, it looks like it was bombed. You need a utility vehicle to negotiate those northbound streets. Where does L&I fit into this situation where plumbers get a license to do a job, I assume, through Licenses and Inspection, but it doesn't seem 1718 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that you're in the loop when it comes to the restoration. And what I'm experiencing is that many of these craters that we're dealing with today are the result of improper restoration of our City streets. And it sounds like a no-brainer, it sounds like it's the Streets Department that should be responsible for that. " I mean, they don't go out there and make sure that it was compacted properly. We all drive through the City streets and we see obvious excavations that are sinking in. We see obvious excavations, we call them a pothole, but I think the word "pothole" is handled loosely. I think that many of these obstacles that we're negotiating are the result of improper restoration of those construction sites. Whose responsibility is it? Is it L&I to make sure that as part of the permit process that you close the loop and the job is completed to specification? Is it the Streets Department? I'm confident that nobody is monitoring the restoration work that's done when a contractor 1719 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET opens up a City street. So if you clean lots, then maybe L&I can be more involved in the process of making sure, even if it's spot checking, that contractors are restoring our streets appropriately. Or if the Streets Department should be doing that, if they are doing that -- they're going to be here later today so I'm going to hit them with the same question. The teeny-weeny bit of research I've done on this issue is that basically it's the contractor's word that it's been done properly. And one of the bigger problems -- and I'm not going to go any longer with this -- is the fact that they in some cases don't do anything. A plumber digs up a hole. They're supposed to, according to L&I, I believe, restore the ditch even with temporary material. But you all at that table know that you've hit a hole in the street that all it has is the dirt and the broken up material thrown back it. It rains like it did a week ago, that material dissolves from the street and you have a 6 or 8-inch depression in the roadway. And, believe me, with today's vehicles, you hit that pot hole, you just spent a thousand dollars maybe on an alloy wheel, a suspension part.

Councilman Rizzo

And it is a shame to put our 1720 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET constituents in a situation we're setting them up for these incidents to occur. So I don't know the role of L&I and if you could explain what your role is. Let's use the example. A plumber wants to come in, opens up the street. What does L&I do? Could you explain that?

Mr. Mclaughlin

We actually have no 10 responsibility, as you've pointed out, to do anything. This is totally a Streets Department issue. And you're right that there are Code requirements, but the permit is a Streets Department permit and I know from talking to Commissioner Tolson that this is a priority for her. This is something that she has, since she's taken over, moved from wherever it was on the pile to closer to the top. I remember her speaking to the Mayor about this in one of our recent meetings. So I think things are going to be different in the way that that's handled.

Councilman Rizzo

So L&I has no 23 responsibility at all even for -- the permit is strictly a -- is there any time L&I is involved in a permit that involves opening the street? 1721 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Perry

Good morning, Council President Verna and Councilpeople. My name is David Perry, I'm the Deputy Commissioner for Licenses and Inspections. In terms of the plumbing permit process, the Department licenses the plumber. We also issue individual permits if a plumber needs to replace a sewer lateral or a water supply to a building or a house. As part of our process, we ensure that the plumber obtains a permit from the Streets Department. It's known as a street opening permit. They pay a fee, they obtain a permit, they notify the Streets Department. The actual ditch restoration becomes the responsibility of the contractor under the guidance and inspection of the Streets Department. So our role in this is to make sure that they get that permit from the Streets Department so that there's notification that there's a condition that needs to be restored.

Councilman Rizzo

So I understand, and I'm not going to take another minute on this, you give them a blanket plumbing license which allows them to go to any location in the City and open up the street? 1722 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Perry

No, we license the plumber to be a tradesperson that's shown qualifications that they're capable of performing plumbing work in the City of Philadelphia. At each individual location, there is a separate permit issued. So if you were to replace your sewer lateral at your house, there would be an individual permit issued to that licensed plumber contractor. There would also be a second permit that involves opening up the street, which is a Streets Department permit.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, that's good. I better understand that now. So you license the plumber. The plumber then is handed off to Streets Department to get permits for any opening that they -- so anytime we see a plumber digging the street, there should be a permit associated with that unless it's an emergency? There must be something in there to deal with emergencies.

Mr. Perry

Well, there would be actually two permits, there would be a plumbing permit you should look for and also a street opening permit. And there are contingencies for emergencies. They can obtain prepaid permits that they activate when the job starts to cover 1723 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET situations in which they can't come in and physically pick up a permit ahead of time.

Councilman Rizzo

You have enough to do so I'm not going to ask you if you believe that the process works. I'm not even going to put you in that position. I'll wait for the Commissioner to come from the Streets Department to see exactly how that process is brought to closure, because I can tell you after this particular thaw and freeze that most of those locations that I have seen -- and we call them potholes. You can hit a pothole and live. But a vehicle can rarely survive when an excavation, the dirt was just thrown back in and rocks are thrown back in. But I appreciate that and I appreciate the information that President Verna will be receiving in reference to the safety issues that may exist here in City Hall. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Verna

You're welcome. Commissioner, whatever responses you send to us, please make certain that we have 20 copies.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 1724 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET At this time the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Good morning.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Good morning.

Councilwoman Tasco

I see on page -- there's no page. In the section where you talk about special inspection programs, the code and violation notice tickets, once you issue a code violation -- and I notice that you say that 85 percent of the tickets are paid -- what follow-up do you see that the violation has been corrected?

Mr. Verdi

We also check to make sure the violation has been corrected on top of the fee being paid for the ticket. The CVN notices have worked to a point where for issues such as overgrown weeds, dog feces in a yard, general clean-up orders, those are easily accessible by our inspectors that also look at a re-inspection or they revisit the property, including making sure that the ticket is being paid.

Councilwoman Tasco

What about those that are not so easily visible and the return to re-inspect?

Mr. Verdi

Upon re-inspection, if we 1725 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET cannot enter the property, they'll go back within five days, hopefully, and be able to identify any re-inspection necessary. If not, we've been automatically sending the cases to court and trying to get the owner in front of a Municipal Court.

Councilwoman Tasco

And what happens after that? When they pay the fine, then you go back to see if it's corrected?

Mr. Verdi

Once it's in the hands of the Court, they pay a fine and we also request a re-inspection date from the owner.

Councilwoman Tasco

You know we had the issue with this company Mutual Industries over at 7th and Grange. They were doing some expansion without the proper permits. It took us almost a year to get you all to do a cease. We couldn't get you to enforce the Code. What was the problem with that?

Mr. Verdi

We did, in fact, cease operations on a certain piece of property that was being used on the side. The specifics of the issue, I'm not -- I couldn't answer that question now until I look into the case. But my understanding is the inspectors did respond. I responded myself 1726 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET personally. There was a section of the property that was legal and was not able to be ceased at the time. We did do the cease operations and we've been following up with your office in reference to neighbors' complaints about drainage and other issues. As a mater of fact, I just asked my staff to look into this the other day to make sure there still wasn't any problems with the zoning on the property that was not adjoining the original piece of the property. The problem that we had at that location, there were three or four different addresses that kept on coming up that we were not able to track until we had someone from Streets Department actually track the property for us.

Councilwoman Tasco

It took almost two years to do that?

Mr. Verdi

Unfortunately, Councilwoman, I can't answer why it wasn't enforced at the time it was enforced.

Councilwoman Tasco

Were you aware that the City was the -- the Commerce Department had worked with that company to start their business there? Do you think that may have had something to 1727 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET do with it?

Mr. Verdi

I wasn't aware of Commerce being involved.

Councilwoman Tasco

The complaints that we get from my constituents, Commissioner, is that when we ask for an inspection and we ask for a cease, the time it takes is just too long, and we've talk about this before, in trying to get everything enforced. I mean, that is a major complaint that we get throughout the 9th Councilmatic District. I'm sure it's shared by our district councilpeople in terms of code enforcement.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Regarding the cease operations -- well, first of all, even the initial violation, I don't know how people determine whether they got action or not. I have inspectors that get off buses dressed in plain clothes and go look at a situation, issue violations and --

Councilwoman Tasco

I guess the constituents don't see any change. They don't know whether it's inspected. They don't see any change in the situation. So to evaluate the results is what time it takes to see a change in the activity?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes. The law requires 1728 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET 30 days of notice for most of those property maintenance or neighborhood-type complaints. So people have 30 days to comply. Then there's a re-inspection. That takes place, hopefully, within a reasonable time after that 30 days, depending on the load, depending on the complaint load. And then if it's not re-inspected, if there's nothing else intervening there, that case would be scheduled for court. And then we get into another invisible process, something that we are addressing. Very soon -- I talked about the dynamic portal in my testimony where people will be able to get on-line either at home or in a library whereever they can access a computer and actually with the complaint number that people are now given when they call in and complain, they will be able to see the process. They will be able to see on a certain date an inspection was made. They'll be able to see that there were multiple complaints on that one property. They'll be able to see that it went to court. So people will be able to get a sense. We're not arriving at the location with sirens and lights going on, and that contributes to people not being 1729 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET able to know that they've been serviced and that this is not something that happens overnight. Regarding the cease operations, we handle cease operations -- our authority to cease businesses or other nuisance properties, we handle that very seriously. We don't want to go right out. We want to make sure that people aren't complying and don't intend to comply. And to do that, sometimes it takes time unless it's a life safety type issue and then we don't -- time is not issue; the life safety is more the issue. I expect that we are going to get much better. With the automation that Council has helped us get, in leaps and bounds we're going to get better at doing our jobs. The inspector arriving at a location is going to be able to see all of the violations that exist on a property. Right now, the inspector is going out there, he's got a piece of paper that says go to that address and look for dog feces in the yard. Let me talk a little bit about that. Part of the reason that we started issuing the tickets is that our violations are notices. There's a yard full of dog feces and you call L&I and we 1730 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET come out there and we tell the people in a violation that they're not supposed to do that. Well, we figure most people know that that's a nuisance and that they shouldn't be doing it. So that's why we started issuing tickets. We started to make it an immediate -- if you've got a locked fire door, you know you're not supposed to have a locked fire door. You get a ticket and a violation. So the violation means that we'll come back and re-inspect and make sure that you don't have that door locked or make sure that yard is clean in the future. That's the reason for issuing the violation. But the ticket addresses -- and that has changed the whole issue of compliance. The one issue that constituents are complaining to you about is that the situation isn't changing. So the tickets help in that regard. Arming our inspectors with more information at the scene is going to help in that process. The people are not going to be able to say, "Oh, well I did this or I did that. I have this license or that license." It's right in front of the inspector. So that's what's going to be happening in the near future.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, I will tell 1731 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you I have some very angry constituents who are upset about what has happened with that Mutual Industries. Let me go into another issue. And I don't want to get into a lot of detail of what happened in the past, I just want to talk about what will be a process to address the issue in the future at 13th and Lindley. It's an apartment building where we had some problems getting the families out because the owner wanted to evict them. But at the same time -- the owner, he had code violations. At the same time he was evicting the current residents, he was renting to new residents. I understand the building is vacant. I have to go back and check. But what will be the role, what is the procedure for L&I on this building and any other vacant building prior to the owner renting the apartments again? My opinion is that they should not be allowed to rent the apartment until they correct the code violations and do the rehabbing that the place is habitable. What could you do? What is your department doing about that?

Mr. Mclaughlin

You're right, that he can't reoccupy that. 1732 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Tasco

But what is the procedure? What stops him from going back to your department, getting the occupancy -- don't they have to have a license to occupy that building?

Mr. Mclaughlin

You have to have a rental license.

Councilwoman Tasco

A rental license?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilwoman Tasco

What's to stop him from getting a rental license? Will there be any indication in the office that that building has code violations on it?

Mr. Verdi

What happens is -- if you're referring to whether he can reoccupy or not, in the case of that property, the building was ceased, from my understanding. And the cease operation stays on that property until all Code requirements are met. He was ordered to get permits and plans to renovate that property. He cannot reoccupy. If the building is being reoccupied, we'll either get notified from the police or our inspectors will do a periodic inspection of a cease operations. But until that building comes back into full compliance of the Code, he's not allowed to reoccupy the property. 1733 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Tasco

So somewhere in your office when he goes to apply for a permit, you have a red flag on that property?

Mr. Verdi

The inspector should be looking for violations. The inspector should be looking for violations on the property before renovations.

Mr. Mclaughlin

That gets -- I hate to sound like a broken record. But right now the red flag is one of them stick-ums on a computer screen. We have no way in our current system to flag a record. You're absolutely right. I talked to Deputy Commissioner Perry about not letting this guy -- avoid clearing the violations before he gets a permit. But in the new system that we will be putting into place, there is the ability to flag for a myriad of different reasons to call our attention to a certain property. And if you think about being able to do that for a lot of the nuisance stuff, it's not just on the building side, a lot of the nuisance stuff that we will be able to do a better job because we'll be able to light up an address.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is this computer program, is this system in place now? 1734 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

No. 3

Councilwoman Tasco

When is that going to take place?

Mr. Mclaughlin

You have given us the methodology to put that into the '04 budget. So we have started on the complaint side. Very soon, within 60 days people will be able to go on-line and look at their individual complaint.

Councilwoman Tasco

But I mean --

Mr. Mclaughlin

That's part of that system. And we will be able to purchase now more modules, licensing and permitting modules, inspection models, case management modules that we will be able to add to this project. I mean, it will allow us to do a phenomenally better job at addressing complaints.

Councilwoman Tasco

So we're coming into the 20th Century.

Mr. Mclaughlin

20th Century is right. COUNCILWOMAN TASCO; 20th Century, right.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes. We have a computer system now that I am fond of saying that we would be able to do a better job if we used index cards. That's how bad it is. 1735 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, it sounds encouraging. Because I will tell you, next to trees, L&I -- and I think maybe L&I more than the tree. Trees may come second in terms of the complaints we get from the people who live in my district in terms of enforcement. Repeat calls about the same problem over and over again. And it just gets to be very frustrating. And I must say your staff over there has been very cooperative. Marian Johnson spends a lot of time in L&I, and I want to say that on record that they have been very cooperative. And I know that we don't -- I'd like to see more inspectors in your place because I think that your department is very crucial the quality of life issues in this City. And if we are able to have the manpower, staffing prior, to do the job that's necessary to do the enforcement, it would help us with a lot of blight that we're now addressing through this bond issue. So I've always believed it's a very important department. I'm going to ask you a very sticky question. You know, we had the Logan sinking home area. And we have just about 99 percent relocated 1736 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the families. The ones that are existing has another different problem. It doesn't have anything to do anything with you. But we do have of triangle, the little strip there between and it's 6 Councilwoman Miller's district now. But if you go 7 on 12th Street and look at that block, we have to do 8 something about those families. 9 I am told that you all will not go in 10 and inspect the houses. I met a lady at a meeting. 11 She said, "I'm continually putting money into my property, but I'm having problems." And as I understand it in the 1986 Relocation Act, that the triangle was extended so that those people would be dealt with on a case-by-case basis regarding their homes. And then once you go in and you inspect the house, if there's some structural problems, the Logan Assistance Cooperation can settle with those people. But we can't get an inspection. So I tell that. You don't have to answer it now. But I want it is on the record. We are going to have to do something about it. Some of those houses on 12th Street, you can't allow those families to live in that block with all that blight and those dilapidated houses coming down 1737 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET around them. And people should not be allowed to spend money in properties that we know are not going to be any good, that they need to be demolished. So I told the lady not to put anymore money in the property. Because it's just like all those families who lived in the Logan area before. They thought the were broken, they would fix a wall, they would do a kitchen, but they were sinking. So we do have some problems and they are on -- it's not a new issue. They are part of the resolution of the Logan safety home area. So it's not that we have to find new money for them. It's that they're in the process and we need to work Logan Assistance Cooperation to address those families in that triangle. All right?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Okay.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Commissioner, you and he City of Philadelphia were recently very much embarrassed by the situation with respect to the plumbing inspectors. Could you tell us more about that? Have they been replaced? Because the 1738 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET newspaper gave the impression that the entire unit of plumbing inspectors were charged and convicted in court.

Mr. Mclaughlin

When you say embarrassed, I don't think we were embarrassed --

Councilman Cohen

Well, I think everybody in Philadelphia was embarrass to find that City employees had been violating the law.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Well, that was an initiative that L&I started, L&I with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, but primarily L&I created a situation that was successful in ending something that had been going on for a long time. So that's a good thing. That's good thing for the City and it's good thing for the people of the City.

Councilman Cohen

It's a good in the result in cleaning house, but it's an embarrassment to find that the City employees take advantage of their position. And I wanted to commend you for whatever initiatives you took and the Department took to clean up that situation. But I raise it because I find that often departments fail to manage their department. You know, I'm very strong advocate of unionization, but 1739 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the unions don't have the responsibility of management. That's not their function. And the ones that have to manage are the managers. And if the unions ever feel or a worker feels he's not being treated properly in the management, he has a grievance procedure to go through. But that should never be an excuse for management to fail to manage. That's their responsibility. And unions are not prepared to and should not be expected to take over the function of management. So that I wanted to say that I think the example of the initiative taken by L&I in that case, and I believe it probably even predated your Administration as L&I inspector because for years -- I'm a native Philadelphian, and always these's been whispers out in the community about how inspectors work. It's a terrible thing to have them, even if they thought they were depending on that had a right to do it as part of their livelihood that they accepted lower pay because they were going to make money on the side is no excuse to permit such conditions to exist. So we commend you on it. Have you selected a new unit? Are the plumber inspectors as a unit able to function today?

Mr. Mclaughlin

One of the problems 1740 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET with those plumbing inspectors is that they had no 3 career path. They might have thought that they were justified, incorrectly thought that they were justified in doing what they did because they couldn't go anywhere in L&I. We changed that. We plumber inspectors are now -- registered master plumbers can compete for the construction trades positions within L&I, and that has a career path right up into the highest levels of L&I.

Councilman Cohen

And is there a full complement of inspectors?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Nine, we have nine inspectors. Nine registered master plumbers who are assigned to various functions throughout the City. They are all in that class. Like several of them are attending Drexel University for the training we're doing at Drexel. The plan is more all encompassing then just saying to a bunch of people, "Look what happened. Make sure you don't do the same thing." It's looking at what might have been the cause and changing that and creating a whole new environment for the registered master plumber to work in within L&I.

Councilman Cohen

I'm wondering also, 1741 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET has the experience L&I in this case has it been utilized by other departments in the City because L&I is not the other department that has inspectors about whom there was a lot of whispering ongoing for many years. The Water Department has inspectors. The Streets Department has inspectors. What does the City do in those cases generally? You have apparently approached it very positively and affirmatively in developing a career path to attempt to reduce the temptation that otherwise might occur. Has the City learned any lessons or is it just L&I has dealt with the problem before it?

Mr. Mclaughlin

I know this issue, the investigation and what happened after the investigation span two managing directors, but both Joe Martz and Estelle Richman spoke at their respective meetings with all of the Commissioners about everybody being aware of what happened to us and being aware that they should be on the lookout for it, and trying to preempt the cause. If in fact we did identify an issue that created an attitude, a wrong attitude in people's heads that they couldn't go anywhere, for people to watch out for that type of situation in their organizations. Those 1742 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET dead-end-type jobs where people's thoughts might start to wonder in other areas instead of what's in the future for them.

Councilman Cohen

Well, I think the City has to be constantly vigilant in that area because whoever has power also has the ability to use that power wrongly. We like to pride ourselves and I like to speak glowingly of the fine work I think Philadelphians who work for the City do. But that means that people have to be very vigilant to make sure that people don't succumb to temptations or any kind; or if they're wrongdoers that get into the system somehow that they're eliminated as quickly as possible. I think it's so important for us in Philadelphia to have confidence in our work force. And I do have it. I thought that was very well done. If the condition like that of corruption existed has to be eliminated at once to restore confidence. That's why when you spoke about serving tickets at same time you serve violation notices, the question comes to mind, is the City doing it because they get better enforcement or were you acting in response to a question of isn't there any 1743 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET way in which the department can generate more money?

Mr. Mclaughlin

No. 4

Councilman Cohen

I think it's important for there to be a distinct separation because if you're giving tickets out to raise more money, I think you're doing the wrong thing. But if you're giving tickets out to get conformity, then you're obviously doing you job and doing it very effectively. Do you have a comment? What brought the decision to switch to the ticket plus violation notice?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Because every single Councilperson has lamented that, as Councilwoman Tasco did, that nothing happens. And we were trying to figure a way -- what happened with this is we first started using tickets for our tobacco enforcement, in other words, giving tickets to people who we caught selling to under-aged kids. And that was extremely successful process that we entered into.

Councilman Cohen

The point of view about bring about deterrence or income?

Mr. Mclaughlin

The astronomical 1744 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reduction in kids smoking, I forget what the statistic is, but it's mind blowing; 58 percent to 4 percent. So it was phenomenal, the program was 5 phenomenal. So we thought, well, if the tickets 6 helped us do that, then why not for the person -- I 7 mean, it's ludicrous to say that your dog is going 8 outside and messing up the yard that's affecting everybody else and you not think it's an a problem. So that's like saying that "I didn't know the light was red." So we're figuring, give somebody an immediate penalty and they'll know that they can get one of those single day that the violation exists. And at the time, if they withstand that, because they might not pay the tickets either. So at the same, we are tracking them to court where we can get a judge involved.

Councilman Cohen

I think the department is to commended for those. Now, let me raise one issue where I think Department is not to be commended, and that is my favorite issue of billboards. Yesterday we had wonderful testimony from a young woman in charge of a department that brings about the painting of murals to beautify the neighborhoods. And the 1745 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET erection of billboards, in my judgement, does just the reverse. It makes the City look ugly rather than beautiful. It takes away many of the beauties of living in the City. And I'm drawing reference to the fact that I think the City is still in violation of a Supreme Court order even directing that certain billboards -- found that certain billboards were built he illegally and the Supreme Court so found and the City has thus far refused on different kinds of grounds at various time to take any action. Is anything happening on that score? And what is L&I doing about what I believe the thousands of illegal billboards that exist throughout the City, illegal in the sense too sometimes with respect to content, but more often with respect to where they're placed with respect to the lack of payment of fees and so forth. When are we going to get some action on billboards that involve the inclusion of the neighborhoods and the enforcement so that people standing on the street can act as unpaid inspectors for the Department, for the City, and bring to your attention to the existence of these billboards.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Councilman, first of all, let me tell you that we are not satisfied with 1746 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the current condition of the billboards. And I for one have been trying to get my arms around this since I was a Deputy Commissioner in L&I. It is a big problem. As you know, you can have legal billboards in the City. We do hold people's feet to the fire to go through the zoning process to involve the community and when people talk about the courts, the way that the billboard issue gets into court in the first place is L&I. The way that the mechanism that puts the case before the zoning board, when we say, "No, you can't put a sign there" or, "No, you can't legalize that sign that we found was illegal," it goes before the zoning board. If the zoning board approves it, it becomes a legal sign. If someone objects to that ruling, that puts it into court. That never would have happened if L&I hadn't started the process of creating a situation that gets it into court. So in fact, we are doing our jobs right across the board on these -- I'd say for the last two or three years that we've drawn the line and made sure that any sign that tries to be legal or that we catch in the process of installing a sign has to go through the process. What we're trying to get our hands on is the myriad of the 1747 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET signs that are out there. There's the issue of taking signs down. I priced taking signs down. It's a very, very expensive process, a couple hundred thousand dollars for each sign to demolish the sign. Now, I don't have any budget for taking signs down. So what we've done, is we've taken -- we talked to the law Department about this. The people that are in the business of erecting those signs have the equipment and they should be made by the courts to take those signs down if they're illegal. The refusal of L&I is to take demolition money, emergency demolition money, take it away from demolition, which I don't even know if I can do, and take down a sign that's not dangerous. So this is the issue of ordering the --

Councilman Cohen

But these companies that have put them on are operating companies with resources. They make huge profits, and it certainly seems to me that the law would provide that the City would have financial recourse against these companies.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I would say that the judges that we have dealt with recently -- I mean, 1748 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET judges are started to get, in my opinion, they're starting to get it with the signs. We have had some heavy fines assigned to these people, to several of these sign companies.

Councilman Cohen

Well, I'm talking about the case that went all the way up to the Supreme Court. Then I heard at some point it was talk about an amendment being offered to the billboard laws. There's been no amendment offered that I know of, and it's been a long, long time. And the fact that some Councilmember wants to offer an amendment, whoever that Councilmember might be, myself or anybody else, does not change a law that's in effect and has been in effect since 1983 and been un-enforced since 1983. And at a time when we talk about budget crisis, the opportunity of getting the neighborhood people to work in cooperation without getting paid for it but doing it as good citizens to bring the attention to L&I, I think we're losing a great opportunity of developing a wonderful partnership between the people and the communities and L&I in the City of Philadelphia. But certainly, for crass commercial reasons, there's no reason to uglify the City and have the people and City 1749 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET subjected to illegal billboards. When can we expect some progress along these lines? I'm heartened by your words because I haven't heard that attitude expressing before, and I'm delighted that you're expressing it, but we would like to see some action on it. It's just very important that the City of Philadelphia and every area show cooperation with its citizens, invite them to participate and help make these cities quality of life an improving situation rather than one in which people are being subjected to conditions that they ought not to be subjected to.

Mr. Mclaughlin

One thing I'd like to make clear is that I have a high ranking L&I official assigned to do nothing else but work on these sign issues. So we do recognize it as an important community issue. I work very closely with Mary Tracy at SCRUB. Mary Tracy and I only disagree on one point. Mary wants the signs to disappear. I want the signs to be legal. She cringes when I talk about legalizing signs. But the Code does allow for legal signs.

Councilman Cohen

But why should we 1750 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET legalize signs that were put up illegally? Why would you want to make them legal? It seems to me that your job is to enforce it. Why would you want to go into a home that has all kinds of plumbing violations and legalize those violations? You wouldn't do that.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We agree. That's why we're taking them to court. That's why these cases have been in front of the courts. And if you know of any sign now that isn't in our process with us taking action against the sign, I want to know about it.

Councilman Cohen

Well, I know the one about the Supreme Court where the Supreme Court acted and said the signs were illegal. Eight sign faces around FDR Park, south of I-95.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I'll say again. Until I'm told otherwise, I'm not going to take -- and let me qualify it. I don't even know if I can demolition money. I have zero budget.

Councilman Cohen

I didn't ask you to take demolition money. I asked to take action to cause the sign to come down. Have you sent the companies notice that 1751 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET they are to take it down tell them they're going to be subjected to heavy fines, including the cost of demolition?

Mr. Mclaughlin

I don't -- see there's where you're going into an area where I don't have the money to make that kind of a threat. We have notified them to take those signs down. We don't have a court order. That court order shown you now does not tell them to take those signs down.

Councilman Cohen

I think it's implicit when the Court says illegal. I think the Court is directing the government to take the action to take them down. And I think people responsible for those signs can be held in contempt of court and can be fined in advance of the demolition the cost of the demolition I think some people not being creative enough legally not take action. I don't know what it is. I don't whether it's campaign contributions or whether it's just disregard of the interest of the citizens of Philadelphia or they don't care about this issue. I don't know what it is. But there really is no reason for the people of Philadelphia to be subjected to the visibility of 1752 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET these signs at a time when the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, the legal process is used and we're making a joke out of the legal process. It's been a long time since the Supreme Court decided that the signs were there illegally. Is the City of Philadelphia so weak that we can't do anything? I'm not looking for ways to spend money. I'm looking for ways to do the opposite. But the first thing we've got to do is to protect the quality of life of the people.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I agree.

Council President Verna

Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Can we give further thought about that. President Verna, the signs are in your district and you were a party to the lawsuit, as I was.

Councilwoman Verna

Councilman Cohen, I think you've made your point very clear. I think the Commissioner has answered the best that he could. And we do have a number of Councilmembers that have not been recognized yet .

Councilwoman Verna

Would you mind, 1753 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman?

Councilman Cohen

Madam President, would you tell what the Commissioner answered and I'll be happy --

Councilwoman Verna

Councilman Cohen, would you mind concluding this portion of the first go-around so that the other Councilmembers can be recognized. Thank you.

Councilman Cohen

Yes. But let me note the time I've occupied is far less than other Councilmembers have each had this morning. But I'm content because that was my last question. I just want to encourage the Commissioner to do in the billboard cases what he's can done so effectively in the plumbing inspectors' cases.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I understand.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you very much.

Councilwoman Verna

You're welcome, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you. I'm going to go back. I've been going over contracts that have been let out and given. And I was looking at the year 2002 and this year, but there are many 1754 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET companies here who do asbestos testing. You have like five -- let me go down each one of them. AET Environmental Pre-Demo Asbestos Survey, Asbestos Management Consulting Pre-Demo Asbestos Surveys, Freedom Abstract, Incorporated; Environmental Services, G&C Pre-Demo Asbestos Survey, Synertech Incorporated Pre-Demo Asbestos Survey; USA Environmental Management Pre-Demo Asbestos Survey; West Chester Environmental Asbestos Survey Pre-Demo; USA Environmental again. Why do we have so many companies doing the same thing in the same year? Why not have one company, if we don't have the skills in-house? And that's a lot of money. I didn't even state the figures that we're talking about.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, Licenses and Inspections avails themselves of four companies to --

Councilman Ortiz

That's more than four here.

Mr. Solvibile

Well, we only use four, Councilman, so I don't know if that's all L&I's people using these companies.

Councilman Ortiz

This is professional 1755 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET contracts Year 2002, L&I, Licenses and Inspections.

Mr. Solvibile

To my knowledge, we only use four, and two of them are MBEC certified companies. As an example, for this year, we'll have roughly a million dollars worth of work for MBEC companies for asbestos surveys and we will give half of that to MBEC. My understand is USA Environmental, G&C; AET, Advanced Environmental Tech; and Synertech are the companies that we use and the only companies we use.

Councilman Ortiz

Those companies are not listed in your budget period here. Those companies are not listed in this year's budget. And if you have a million dollars listed for those four companies, I would like to see that listed in the budget.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, we're asking for an increase in our budget to do surveys for asbestos prior to demolition. Right now we use four companies and two are MBEC certified.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, we're learning that having MBEC certification means not a heck of a lot. It's just not proving to be what it should have been. But those companies are not listed in 1756 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET your budget booklet for this year.

Mr. Solvibile

I don't understand the question. I'm sorry, Councilman.

Councilman Ortiz

I'm looking at this year's contract, and I don't see any those companies that you just mentioned. I see Drexel Hill International, you some miscellaneous, the Perimeter Group, Diversified, to be determined, various. But I don't see any of the companies that you mentioned. In fact, I don't see asbestos contract listed.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, with the asbestos removal, we have four companies that we use.

Councilman Ortiz

You said that.

Mr. Solvibile

So you understand. We give each percent each of all the asbestos -- 18

Councilman Ortiz

But what I'm saying 19 is, it is not in the book here. You have more than 20 four listed for the year 2002. I'm trying to get 21 the year 2003. They're not listed in this book. I 22 would like to have from you every single 23 professional service contract that you give out for 24 last year and this year because they're not here. I 25 would like to see the total amount of monies, the 1757 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET perspective of service that they're supposed to do, and the breakdown in terms of minority and minority participation in each of those contracts. For the year 2003, and I will give you a copy of the year 2002 and you can explain to me all of these different asbestos companies and the other contracts that you have here. Do we have an agreement on that?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilman Ortiz

And you send that to the President.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilman Ortiz

But those companies that you mentioned are not listed in the budget book. That amount of money that you mentioned, I'm trying to find it in the budget book. You may have it, but I'm looking at the professional service area data and I can't find it there.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, I can say that -- and I can give you the names now. Of last year for '02 for demolition --

Councilman Ortiz

I'm not asking demolition. I think Councilman Nutter and I want 1758 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET all of those contracts, in terms of all of those contracts detailed. But on this one, I was wondering because it hit me, that we're employing five, six companies to do the same things. And if we don't have the skills inside, why don't we settle on one company that does it well and maybe we could have a better price and spend less money? All I want is the rationale behind these things and then the breakdown in terms of minority participation. It's not hard.

Mr. Solvibile

It's available, and we will do it.

Councilman Ortiz

And then I will give you the 2002, all of the personal service conduct that I have here, and I'd like the same explanation for each one of these contracts and the ones that you have listed so far here, okay?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Okay.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you.

Councilwoman Verna

The Chair now recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, gentlemen. 1759 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

Good morning, Councilman.

Councilman Clarke

I actually have some questions. And my colleague, Councilwoman Brown, couldn't be available and she had some questions that she'd like me to ask you. First, there was an issue with respect to the Operation Teach. She wanted me to communicate that she's happy that you guys seem to be doing a good job on that particular program. But in particular, she wanted to know how long is this period of time has these numbers dropped; was it a year, two years? And the other follow-up question to that is, how often do we go back to the stores that are in violation?

Mr. Verdi

This program was started a few years ago with Teach, the Health Department and Department of Licenses and Inspections.

Councilman Clarke

How many is a few?

Mr. Verdi

I would say that rate dropped --

Councilman Clarke

How many is a few? You said a few.

Mr. Verdi

Approximately three years. 1760 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET We met recently, I would say approximately a year and a half ago, and there was different changes in state legislation as to monies that would be given to Teach if certain inspections were done. We worked along with Teach and the Health Department and were able to do mostly every tobacco selling establishment in the City. The initial report came back that there was 58 percent were still selling to minors. We worked a program where we used CVNs and went back and re-inspected those locations on a nuisance basis. We basically went to all those locations. If I'm not mistaken, the account was of approximately 3250-some-odd locations in the City that sell cigarettes. We worked with the Health Department and Teach, inspected those locations. And the people that were caught selling, we went back to in 60 days. When we initiated the cease operations on 10 of them and issued fines of a thousand dollars with $10,000 conditional fines, the word went out to those people that we weren't playing games any longer with them. We had a routine issue on the sale of tobacco. We were able to drop the rate from 58 percent sales to 8 percent within a matter of approximately eight months. 1761 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET As we speak, we now have people assigned just to handle CVN notices with the Health Department. We have help from the Health Department, and they either send us a clerical person that is assigned just to that or we have assigned people and they pay for the overtime to work on it. We still have an ongoing relationship with Teach and the Health Department whereas every location, if I'm not mistaken, must be inspected twice a year for sale of tobacco to minors. So the program is ongoing and we do inspect these locations after they're found in violation within 30 to 60 days.

Councilman Clarke

As a part of initiative, are you also looking at the sale of singles where individuals sell cigarettes on a singular basis? Is that a part of that?

Mr. Verdi

The street name "loosies"?

Councilman Clarke

Loosies, yeah. I couldn't think of the name of it.

Mr. Verdi

We also look into that issue. We take those complaints, and they're given a priority basis when they come back from Teach. How it works is the Teach people actually have a 1762 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET young adult go in and document the sales of the tobacco back to his. So the inspectional end of it is a little -- the burden has been taken off a lot by having Teach handle those inspections. And ourselves, when we get those complaints, we turn them over to Teach first to have them have a look at it.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. On the testimony, there was mention of seminars for child care providers that are not being conducted on a bimonthly basis. Could you outline for me what the seminars are and could you provide a copy of the seminar syllabus or outline to the Chair?

Mr. Verdi

Yes. We'll have a copy sent over to Council President Verna. Basically, what that does is we have those every two months to allow any new day care to come in and get any information in reference to opening day care. We have a very proactive approach to day cares. We have a new person now that's in charge of day care just in our department alone. She's taken control of the entire issue. We have booklets that will be available shortly, and we'll get them over to Councilwoman Brown. 1763 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Clarke

Can make sure you provide them to the Chair?

Mr. Verdi

To the Chair, yes.

Councilman Clarke

And then the Chair will distribute them among the members. It's my understanding that the City is moving towards adopting a Uniform Construction Code.

Mr. Perry

Dave Perry, Deputy Commissioner. Yes, we are. The Uniform Construction Code was adopted at a statewide level, and the City of Philadelphia has until the end of this year to adopt it locally. That Code offers a lot of advantages to designers and contractors, building owners. And what the Department has done, there is now a variance of application that's available that will allow contractors or designers to design under that international code at this current time. So we do allow design under that Code immediately and we will be adopting the entire international code package sometime this year.

Councilman Clarke

What do you anticipate the impact of the adoption of that Code as it relates to child care?

Mr. Perry

Off the top of my head, I 1764 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET don't have an analysis for you as to what the impact will be. We can certainly compare and contrast the 2 codes and provide a report as to the impact on child care providers.

Councilman Clarke

That will be helpful if you provide that information, and particularly to Councilwoman Brown. I want to get into a couple of questions that I'm somewhat interested in. Last year we passed a demolition bill, a notification bill. Have you implemented that program yet?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, Councilman. Other than curb-sides of collapsed buildings with the NTI Program mainly is we were doing planned demolitions. We have in operation, a notification that's being sent, mailing labels are being created by also Hill International of the area affected by the demolition, and a notice is being sent to the community as to the demolitions that will be taking place in their community.

Councilman Clarke

Is that only in the case of NTI-related demolitions?

Mr. Solvibile

The only demolitions 1765 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that L&I are doing at the present point are collapses, emergency demolitions, and we are not capable of doing that with emergency demolitions. There's collapses that happen today ad we're going out and doing curb-side.

Councilman Clarke

So any other demolitions -- and when you say that you are preparing notices, a mailing list in anticipation of a particular targeted area?

Mr. Solvibile

That's correct, Councilman. Hill International is an example. Right now a mailing is going out to Mantua as we speak, I believe, where the demolitions will start to take place in the next week or two. And they'll receive a mailing. And I believe in Frankford we sent a mailing to the community. It's listing frequently asked questions. And we're revising that as we speak also. There's been e-mail back and forth on my desk from Hill and to Pat Smith and a lot of us updating that notice that will be going out, that mailing that will be going out.

Councilman Clarke

The same notice that you forwarded to my office for review?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes. 1766 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Clarke

Vacant Window Bill, I understand the Mayor, I think, signed it yesterday, day before and it has law. Can you talk to me about what we anticipate?

Mr. Solvibile

We anticipate to be -- the Commissioner and I have had many conversations about this bill -- to be very proactive. It has to wait days, as I'm sure you're aware for the 10 notification period. But to be very proactive, and 11 our staff will be trained, our inspectors. Deputy 12 Commissioner Verdi and Perry's staff and my staff 13 will be trained where if see a situation where a 14 story is one of the prime reasons things we will 15 write is where we have a corner store in operation 16 and the window is boarded above it, it will be 17 written there. And the communities that are 18 affected -- and Councilman Nutter's area comes to 19 mind and several areas in your district comes to 20 mind where there's one or two vacants on a block. We will very proactive and write that violation.

Councilman Clarke

It's 80 percent occupancy?

Councilman Clarke

Once residents are 1767 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET aware of this bill and the program, when they call they can just call the traditional L&I hotline? Is there a special unit set up for that? Or is just a par of the normal inspection process?

Mr. Solvibile

Our inspectors will pick it up in their daily activity if they see it. If they're sent to a complaint about a vacant property on a block and it's the only one on the block or 80 percent of the block is occupied, it will be written for all the houses that are vacant on that block and the storefronts -- it will be very proactive. And we do have some addresses that we notice exists that we'll be going back on and writing violations for that. We want to thank Council for that bill. We feel it will help us in this war on blight very effectively.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I'd just like to add that, you know, regarding making the complaints, we talked about the dynamic portal being available within the next 60 days and I talked about people being able to track their complaints. People will also be able to make complaints through that system. So it's not getting into the L&I call intake system 1768 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET or calling to make a complaint; it's firing up your computer and making a complaint right on-line. That will be available within 60 days.

Councilman Clarke

I have another emerging problem in some parts of my district, and I'm assuming throughout the City of Philadelphia. I had this impromptu nightclub/striptease/lap dance/bar. I mean, you name it, we have it. And it's popping up in the residential communities. I have one in particular on 33rd Street. They actually advertise over the Internet and I was forwarded a copy of one of the flyers, pictures of the women who will be performing at that particular facility. How do we do something about that? Should we initiate that with the police, L&I?

Mr. Verdi

Right now we have an internal task force that works with the Police Department. If you have an immediate complaint that, we have people now that are looking at the Internet and looking at different ways. Years ago, the common speakeasy didn't want anybody to know. It's just amazing how many times we're finding them on the Internet and we find 1769 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET advertisements throughout the neighborhood. We react very quickly to a neighborhood complaint in reference to an illegal nightclub. These clubs are illegal because for the most part there are no fire regulations they follow. They follow no regulations. They follow their own regulations. We have a task force that will go out in the evening along with the Police Department and close just such places down. The case you're referring to, I think at this point has a cease operations on that location already. If it does and the police have it, they should be monitoring it. But we'll into it.

Councilman Clarke

And I'd say it's still going pretty strong.

Mr. Verdi

Well, then we'll have to make it stop going pretty strong for you.

Councilman Clarke

So now, the illegal operations centers more around the fact that they're operating a business, meaning they're charging people, they're advertising, but this is a private home and because they're conducting business and charging for that particular type of business.

Mr. Verdi

We are able to close down 1770 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that type of situation even in a private residence.

Councilman Clarke

All right. I will look forward to that particular facility that we're speaking of shortly be closed down because I'm getting these flyers, faxes sent to me from some of my constituents who are concerned that it's not being addressed.

Mr. Verdi

If at all possible, we'll get a fax from you and see what flyer you have on this location. Again, the task force that we created internally with L&I works closely with the Police Department on a daily basis. So we have constant information flowing back and forth. If that's not the one that I know --

Councilman Clarke

I forwarded a copy a couple months ago to your office of that particular -- it was actually an advertisement for the activity.

Mr. Verdi

That's what makes be believe that that was under a cease operations. We'll look into it and get back to you with the information.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. 1771 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.

Councilman Mariano

How many spanish speakers do you have on the intake lines for the emergency heat hotline? Do you know if you have any?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Five.

Councilman Mariano

Very good.

Mr. Mclaughlin

And we have a service that would handle that language and, of course, many other languages.

Councilman Mariano

So if someone calls at night and they needed a Spanish speaker, they push it over to a service that has a Spanish speaker available?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes. And we also have a mailbox for Spanish speaking -- can I ask Dave Perry to talk about something that he's doing on the permit side, as long as you brought up languages.

Councilman Mariano

Thank you.

Mr. Perry

Dave Perry, Deputy Commissioner. On the permit side, we made contact with a company that will be providing a dual headset 1772 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET phone for our use down in the concourse and the purpose of that dual headset phone is that anyone speaking any one of a 140-some languages, if they come into the concourse and I have a question about obtaining a license, a permit, or have any L&I-type issue, we can sit them down in a cubicle with a service representative and we will get this service on the phone and it will provide translation services on the spot in any one of 140 different languages. We're moving ahead and having that installed. We look forward to having that the next several months. The other initiative that we're doing, we're taking some of the our major informational handouts and we're having them translated into multiple languages also. We take the challenge of providing services for multiple cultures and multiple languages very seriously, and we're taking some serious efforts to move that forward.

Councilman Mariano

Is there any chance that Commissioner Verdi will be speaking Russian or Mandarin Chinese?

Mr. Mclaughlin

I believe he does.

Councilman Mariano

I think he speaks 1773 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET like Yogi Berra. (Laughter.)

Councilman Mariano

With the piece that L&I will be doing with NTI -- and I'm glad to hear this; that's great. The only thing I want to know is, get us a list of all the languages that are available. And also a list of when you translate stuff, Commissioner, I'm sure of course you do Spanish and probably Russian and maybe Cambodian, people that live in pockets in Philadelphia. But if you guys are involved in NTI, will that all be available? Especially east of Broad Street is my concern. Part of my district and Councilman Clarke's there's a lot of Spanish speakers.

Mr. Solvibile

We when our survey, we're going to make sure that Deputy Commissioner Verdi lends us a bilingual or Hispanic speaking inspector to accompany our teams. And also, the Gannet Flemming Group that goes out with us, hired through Hill, has people that are Hispanic speaking.

Councilman Mariano

Thank you. And on a personal, Commissioner, I appreciate everything, especially all the ones at this does and you personally. And I know there's many people in L&I, 1774 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I'll specifically mention the girl that answers your phone, Janice -- I don't know what her married name is but Janice Clarke, as I know her. We appreciate her. What's her married name?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Janice Hall.

Councilman Mariano

She'S Janice Clarke to me. But I appreciate everything you've done. And I know how hard you work on getting that into the budget for '04 with my office and with the committee to be able to have the inspectors to have the ability. So I know that you want citizens to be able to look up their violations and the elected official. It will save us a lot of time and money in the long run. But just remember, it took a long time to get to this point, so if we take small steps we'll do a lot better than we're doing now.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I sincerely want to thank you and your staff for the fine tuning that came before we submitted it to the rest of Council and helped get it through.

Councilman Mariano

Commissioner Perry, I want to thank him and everyone else that was involved with the sprinkler fitter information. That's really in light of happened in Rhode island, 1775 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I think it was, we were a couple years ahead of that. So we should be doing all the sprinkler fitter stuff because I really need it to become a bill, and it looks real good. So thank you.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Thank you, Councilman.

Councilwoman Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, I want to go back to a couple of areas where some of my colleagues have been and try to get a little better understanding of the situation out there. How many demolition companies are there in Philadelphia?

Mr. Mclaughlin

We really don't have that answer. You're asking how many are in Philadelphia?

Councilman Nutter

Yes.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We can find out. You mean approved on our list or just generally in Philadelphia?

Councilman Nutter

First, in Philadelphia. And then, actually, the second 1776 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET question was, Deputy Commissioner Solvibile in response to an earlier question by one of my colleagues made reference to a pre-approved list of demolition contractors. How many companies are on that list?

Mr. Mclaughlin

They qualify in a process to be put on that list.

Councilman Nutter

How many are there?

Mr. Solvibile

Approximately 15. And we'll get the exact count for you and provide through the Council President the address and name of all the companies that are approved by us for this fiscal year.

Councilman Nutter

I appreciate that. How many are on the list in the current fiscal year? Is that the 15?

Mr. Solvibile

Approximately 15. And we'll provide that to Council President. And that would be for the emergency demolition curb-side list that we pre-approve every fiscal year.

Councilman Nutter

And off the top of your head, based on your best recollection, how many of those companies are based in Philadelphia?

Mr. Solvibile

I would have to guess, 1777 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET but approximately 50 percent. It may be even greater. I'm not sure, Councilman.

Councilman Nutter

I didn't hear the first part of your answer.

Mr. Solvibile

I'm not sure. Approximately 50 percent, but that's a guess.

Councilman Nutter

And how many do you know are owned by African Americans, other minorities, or women?

Mr. Solvibile

Six. But of the six of three are currently not on the list because they're trying to get bonding. And we're working with them --

Councilman Nutter

Let me make sure I'm understanding the response. When you say six, six what?

Mr. Solvibile

Six companies are certified as either minority or female-owned companies. Molly construction is a woman business. Eugene Pullins (ph) is a minority. Thorn Equipment is a woman company. Ashall (ph) is minority. Fayette Corporation is a minority business. And Samara Incorporated is a minority business. Now, three of the companies that I just 1778 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mentioned are currently having trouble getting a bond for this fiscal year.

Councilman Nutter

Which ones are those?

Mr. Solvibile

Ashall Construction, Fayette Street Corporation and Samara Incorporated.

Councilman Nutter

And what's their particular status or category?

Mr. Solvibile

They're minority businesses.

Councilman Nutter

All three.

Mr. Solvibile

Eugene Pullins is the only minority business company that is bonded for this fiscal year and has done a series amount of work for us as far as the number of buildings he's demolished for us.

Councilman Nutter

How many would that be? I have a dollar figure for this fiscal year. Eugene Pullins has done $496,135.

Councilman Nutter

Out of a total of what?

Mr. Solvibile

Out a total of roughly $4 million in demolition this fiscal year. Our minority and female-owned companies 1779 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have done $1,605,000 worth of demolition this fiscal year, which represents approximately 50 percent of the demolition that L&I has put out this year.

Councilman Nutter

I thought you said you had done $4 million worth of demolition.

Mr. Solvibile

Well, I rounded it up.

Councilman Nutter

Sounds like maybe about percent? 10

Mr. Solvibile

I'm sorry, Councilman. 11 In Fiscal Year '02 is the $4 million that I 12 mentioned out of 10 million which was 40 percent. 13 This fiscal year the minority 14 companies -- 15

Councilman Nutter

Slow down for a 16 second. You said you did $10 million worth of 17 demolition last year? Did I hear a $10 million 18 figure. 19

Mr. Solvibile

Last year we did 20 approximate $10,100,000 worth of demolition, for 21 actual demolition of buildings, not counting 22 stuccoing or the other for asbestos. 23

Councilman Nutter

I understand. 24

Mr. Solvibile

And of that $4,100,000 25 was awarded to the companies that I had mentioned 1780 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET before, the MBEC and WBEC companies.

Councilman Nutter

You can give us a complete breakdown of those?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, we can, Councilman. We have it with us but we don't have copies. 7

Councilman Nutter

We'll take one. We 8 have a brand-new copier right in the back there. 9 The female owned businesses, how long 10 have they been on the City list? 11

Mr. Solvibile

Some of them for several 12 years. Eugene Pullins for several years. Fayette 13 Company has been on this list as long -- Fayette 14 Corporation. 15

Councilman Nutter

Hold on for a 16 second. Eugene Pullins is a woman? 17

Mr. Solvibile

Eugene Pullins is male, 18 MBEC-certified company. 19

Councilman Nutter

I asked about the 20 female companies.

Mr. Solvibile

Oh, I'm sorry.

Councilman Nutter

I said, how long have they been on the list?

Mr. Solvibile

Molly Construction for the last three or four years. Thorn Corporation for 1781 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the last years, at least. And they're the two women certified companies.

Councilman Nutter

Now, you've made on 5 a number of occasions the distinction between the 6 curb-side demolition. And is that what your 7 $10 million is, or is that curb-side and regular 8 dangerous buildings? You've continued to make a 9 distinction, so I'm going to assume that there is a 10 difference. 11

Mr. Solvibile

In '02 was for money 12 spent or curb-side demolitions. Emergency 13 demolitions. 14

Councilman Nutter

That was the 15 $4.1 million?

Councilman Nutter

This is what you refer to as your daily demolition program?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, Councilman.

Councilman Nutter

All of the demolition work that's being done through NTI, who is doing that? Same companies or different companies?

Mr. Solvibile

Molly Construction has won one of the bid packages with the NTI program, 1782 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET which is a WBEC company. And Thorn Equipment, which is also a WBEC company has won one of the commercial demolitions that we've awarded through using NTI bonds.

Councilman Nutter

I thought this company Red Ball was doing a fair amount of demolition also.

Mr. Solvibile

That's correct, but Red Ball is not doing it all. Some awards have been made to Molly, and I believe JPC to do demolitions under the NTI demolition program.

Mr. Mclaughlin

And Councilman, all of the NTI demolitions have roughly 45 percent minority, female participation and handicapped.

Councilman Nutter

Well, this is what I would like to have. I'd like to have a racial, geographic, and gender analysis of the staff and employees of all of these companies. So what I mean by that is I'd like to know what their total work force is, total number of people. I'd like to how many are male and female. I'd like to know how many live in the City and outside the City. And I'd like a demographic analysis as well.

Mr. Solvibile

We presently do not all 1783 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of that information. We can give you where they're located. We would have to ask the contractor to provide that information for us as far as where their employees are living.

Mr. Mclaughlin

What Bob means is that will take us little bit more time, but we'll get it for you.

Councilman Nutter

I appreciate that. We can get the information from them, right? I'm not asking for the employees names or their personal addresses. I think a zip code analysis would be fine.

Mr. Solvibile

We will ask them for an analysis of where their workers live by zip code if that's what you refer, yes.

Councilman Nutter

How long do you think it will take?

Mr. Solvibile

I'll have Ms. Evans, the Director of Contractual Services, prepare a letter that goes out to the contractors this evening, copying Council President and the Councilpeople, asking for that information and give a dead line of approximately 15 working days to get the information back to us. 1784 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information. Councilman Nutter just mentioned about the zip code. I don't know how wide spread this is, but I know in the community that I live in, I live in 19118. That zip code also exists in the suburbs. That 1911 is part of Montgomery County. Again, that might be the only situation like that, but I just wanted you to be aware that all of 1911 is not within Philadelphia.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Councilman. All right, so you're going to have letters out to the companies today asking them for the information. They'll have 15 business days to respond. You'll cc the Council President on the letters so she will have a copy of them, and we'll take it from there. What's the total amount of dollars that L&I has within its budget for procurement purposes or professional services or purchase of services contracts?

Mr. Feldgus

Richard Feldgus, Administrative Services Director. In the General Fund, Class 200 1785 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET $5,985,000; Class and 400, approximately $770,000. 3 That would be monies that we would use outside of the staff services.

Councilman Nutter

Is that on 47-3, Mr. Feldgus.

Mr. Feldgus

Yes, it is.

Councilman Nutter

So it's 5,985,785?

Mr. Feldgus

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

And are those dollars the primarily reflected starting on pages 47-29 going forward. Where would I find --

Mr. Feldgus

You would see that through the divisions in the department. I guess the first page would be 47-14 and 15, and then the other divisions going through the budget, yes.

Councilman Nutter

Let's talk about -29 for a second. The lot cleaning program, you're anticipating $2 million for that. Is that work actually being done by L&I staff or is that contracted out?

Mr. Feldgus

No. In fact, that money is in the L&I budget but in fact actually to my knowledge is controlled by the Managing Director's Office. They run that lot cleaning program on a 1786 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET citywide basis now for a number of years as part of the Mayor's initiative to clean the 32,000 lots. And this $2 million is part of that program even though it shows up in our budget.

Councilman Nutter

So if a constituent wants a lot cleaned or if our office receives requests, we would call the Managing Director's Office about having a lot cleaned, not L&I?

Mr. Feldgus

I believe Tom Conway in the Managing Director's Office is the person who basically coordinates that problem.

Mr. Solvibile

But, Councilman, Licenses and Inspections still writes the violation prior to the Managing Director's Office being able to treat the lot. And also L&I and the Managing Director's Office work hand-in-hand in managing that program.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We want that to go through our complaint intake system so that it gets assigned a number so that we know that it was treated, it was abated. And when people ask us how many times we've abated the same lot, we'll be able to come up with an answer. When they ask how many we've done in what area, we'll be able to give a 1787 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET better answer. So call L&I with that.

Councilman Nutter

So let's go back around to the beginning of this. If I have a lot that I need cleaned, who do I call?

Mr. Solvibile

Call L&I.

Councilman Nutter

And making the complaint with you is going to get it over to Tom Conway to do what he's supposed to do?

Councilman Nutter

Is there a copy that you can forward to the Chair for us which represents -- maybe this a two-part question. Is there one specification for demolitions in the City now?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, Councilman. We have worked with NTI staff and L&I and created one specification, and our specification is the same as the one used for NTI demolitions.

Councilman Nutter

And what should citizens expect or what should we expect after a demolition? What should we see and what, basically, should we not see as compared to the past? How is the lot to be left? When is the demolition complete? 1788 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

The lot is to be left level and clean and the party walls to be stuccoed. The power pit, the top of the wall to be treated with -- instead of the old tin that we used to use will be treated with a barge board and capped done by a professional roofer and the wall stuccoed. That's basically -- the grading of the lot somewhat changed from what our spec was that when it comes up with the top soil, the six inches of dirt would be level with the sidewalk. Whereas we left it a little higher to take the water away. And they still do that. We grade away from the wall with a little bit higher at the party wall and grade to the middle where it sort of like make a little -- I guess you'd call it a little valley.

Councilman Nutter

Are the demolished sites inspected before the contractors are paid?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes. In NTI, prior to and now. The difference now with a NTI demolition, our inspectors will be assigned to that site and work with that contractor in that area until the demolitions are complete.

Councilman Nutter

And what's the contact with -- or is there any requirement for 1789 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET contact with the one or two adjoining neighbors to see the result of the demolition activity and any negative impact on their home, whether damage to their building, water in the basement, or any other resulting factors?

Mr. Solvibile

With the L&I and the NTI demolitions, the difference in the L&I curb-side demolitions, the L&I inspector who is asking for the emergency demolition also will inspect the attached properties for any prior damage to make to ensure that they're stable and the demolition will not further damage their property. And with the NTI demolition, the contractor, the L&I inspector, and a representative from Hill will inspect the property and take video -- I'm not sure if it's video or pictures, of the property being inspected, the surviving property.

Councilman Nutter

Is Hill involved in every demolition now?

Mr. Solvibile

In every NTI demolition, yes, but not in every L&I demolition.

Councilman Nutter

Who are the people from Hill? Who are the principal individuals from Hill? 1790 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

I deal with three gentlemen from Hill that I know: Mike Griffin who I believe is the manager of the office in Philadelphia; Jim Rowan who is his assistant; and a gentleman named Ben, I believe it's Levitt -- I'm not sure of his last name -- who is actually out in the field with us. And now that we're expanding into other areas, there will be other people that we inter-relate with from Hill. Right now, they're the three people that I've been dealing with for the last several months.

Councilman Nutter

Can you forward to the Chair a copy of the demolition specs so that we're able to look at them and know what those specifications are, and if there is a problem, we know what should be there and what should not be there?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, we can.

Councilman Nutter

What's the present policy on fencing vacant lots, post demolition in the current context, post-demolition from maybe a building was taken down three years ago and someone now wants a fence; what's our fencing policy?

Mr. Solvibile

Right now the present 1791 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET policy is the ordinance that I believe was passed that a letter would be sent to the Commissioner of L&I requesting a fence on demolitions that were done several years. And I do not know the policy with the NTI Program. That would be asked to Patricia Smith, the Director of the Neighborhood Transformation.

Councilman Nutter

But you're saying with regard to L&I demolitions, in accordance with the bill that was passed, if a member wants or if their constituents want a fence, all they need to do is contact the Commissioner and a fence will be provided?

Mr. Solvibile

If the Commissioner deems it appropriate. And right now, the other part of the problem, Councilman, is that there's no 18 funding in Licenses and Inspections to provide fencing.

Councilman Nutter

What happened to it?

Mr. Solvibile

I'm told -- and again, you would have to ask Patricia Smith, Director of NTI Program. I'm told that bond money can not be used for fencing. I'm just told that. I don't know quite how that works. 1792 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner, with every respect, I mean, the government was running before there was something called NTI, and L&I had money in its budget for that. So I don't really know why I need to -- I mean, I have plenty enough opportunities to ask Ms. Smith a whole host of questions, but last I checked, she was not in charge of the Department of Licenses and Inspections.

Mr. Solvibile

The monies that were used for fencing was the demolition funds that was in the department that were General Fund money. And I'm told in meetings that I've attended that NTI bond funds cannot be used for fencing.

Councilman Nutter

Because what?

Mr. Solvibile

I can't answer that question.

Councilman Nutter

NTI bond funds were promoted as being more flexible than City General Fund dollars. If we put up fences with General Fund dollars, and -- I mean, we seem to do a whole host of things with NTI funds. I don't understand how we're in a less flexible situation. Are you saying that L&I does not have its own demolition funding? 1793 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

What we're saying is we're now using bond money. And bond money has rules attached to it. This just came to light. I think it was last week we found out that we couldn't use this money for fencing.

Councilman Nutter

Who told you that?

Mr. Solvibile

In a meeting that I was at it was discussed, and Patricia Smith was the person who said it.

Councilman Nutter

So Ms. Smith told you in a meeting that you cannot use NTI funds to put up fences around lots that have been demolished as a result of the use of NTI funds?

Mr. Mclaughlin

And for that reason it's a new problem for us and it's something that we'll look into and we'll get back to you.

Councilman Nutter

Then let me go back and ask my original question. In your budget, do you have any money for demolition of City General Fund dollars, non-NTI funds?

Mr. Mclaughlin

No. 23

Councilman Nutter

So all of your demolition dollars are now from NTI?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes. 1794 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

And that would be where in the budget?

Mr. Mclaughlin

It's in the Grants Fund.

Councilman Nutter

Is that 47-65.

Mr. Feldgus

I believe that's correct.

Councilman Nutter

You have grants revenue, purchase of services, and an NTI page for L&I .

Mr. Feldgus

That's correct.

Councilman Nutter

$34,332,550?

Mr. Feldgus

Yes, Councilman, that's correct.

Councilman Nutter

So you have $34 million in your budget for NTI activities, and you're telling me that if I wanted a fence I can't have one? Even though we have an ordinance that says if I make a request and if the Commissioner deems it needed, you'll provide one? And naturally, I wouldn't send you a request that wasn't valid.

Mr. Mclaughlin

This is a new problem for us. We assumed that we could do the same thing with the NTI bond money as we could do with General Fund demolition money. It turns out that as a 1795 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET result of that information that Bob got that very possibly -- I'm not sure that -- I don't know what Patricia Smith's base of knowledge was for making that statement. So we'll have to look into that further and get back to you.

Councilman Nutter

No, I think I'd like to understand that right now. We're in an L&I hearing, you've got $34 million in your budget for NTI activities, you're telling me that I can't have a fence if I make a request. I need to know why I can't have a fence right now.

Mr. Mclaughlin

The explanation that I was given is that if it's not specifically delineated in the list of things that you can do with the money, that it can't be done. So for some reason fencing wasn't put on the list.

Councilman Nutter

Well, in the NTI program budget and statement there's a provision in there for the creation of a fencing committee. So clearly, someone must have thought that fencing was going to be an issue if not a programmatic initiative in the program since they conceived or anticipated the creation of a fencing committee. Why would you have a fence committee as a part of 1796 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the NTI Program budget and statement if you weren't anticipating putting up fences? My suggestion is, why don't you make a phone call, see if you can get Ms. Smith so she can explain why we don't have a fencing program? I have many other questions. Who is responsible for trees on vacant lots or the taking down of a tree on a vacant lot?

Mr. Solvibile

Presently, Councilman, our specification calls when we demolish a building for the removal of a tree on the lot. And also --

Councilman Nutter

Is it a complete elimination or removal of a tree or is it down to a certain point?

Mr. Solvibile

I believe creating a stump. I would have to read the spec. I believe it's like a couple feet that the stump remain.

Councilman Nutter

Can you tell me why we would leave a stump on a vacant lot under that circumstance and not remove the entire structure?

Mr. Solvibile

We remove a dangerous condition. Code calls for us to render the tree safe. The stump rule --

Councilman Nutter

Well, if kids are 1797 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET playing on a vacant lot, a stump can be very dangerous to them or to some other person who is on the lot. And since at the moment we're apparently not planning to fence them, I don't understand why don't we remove everything. It's not like we take the building down to three or four feet high. Is it a cost issue?

Mr. Solvibile

In the past, the goal with our specification was to remove the dangerous tree from falling onto properties, and we felt that if we got it to a stump, which I forget how many feet the stump can be, that we accomplished our goal of removing dangerous condition. And that's what our goal was to stop a tree from falling onto a vacant property.

Councilman Nutter

I understand that. But given the equipment that's usually out at these sites, I guess what I don't understand is, I mean, between either a backhoe, a front-end loader or whatever, once you get it down to the or foot range, if you ran the piece of equipment into it, it would pretty much take that stump out of there. I think if you're going to clear a site, let's leave a clean, clear site with nothing on the site. I don't 1798 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET understand.

Mr. Solvibile

I front-end loader or a backhoe cannot remove a stump.

Councilman Nutter

You need a stump grinder?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes. It's like a big wheel that grinds stump.

Councilman Nutter

I know. I've had a few experiences with trees. Is this a cost issue or an equipment issue or the contractors don't have their own stump grinding equipment?

Mr. Solvibile

The people that we use to remove dangerous trees are demolition contractors, the same people that are on our emergency list that are pre-certified by the Department. And they're mainly the people that take down the trees for us and they're not tree removal experts.

Councilman Nutter

I understand.

Mr. Solvibile

But they're the only ones that tend to want to do the tree removal because of the dangerous condition and the proximity of homes. 1799 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

At the same time, we're trying to encourage people in many instances to take the lot adjoining their property. And if they ever decide to try to do something on the lot, plant, benching, seating whatever, that person's not going to move the tree stump. They certainly don't have the resources. We're in there to take care of a wide variety of things. But you're saying that at the minimum, if there is a tree on a vacant lot, when the building comes down, they're at least going to take the tree down to this or foot limit?

Mr. Solvibile

Correct, Councilman.

Mr. Mclaughlin

Councilman, just to follow-up on that. These rules and regulations that we're talking about and the policies that we've followed were all pre-NTI. They were pretty much eliminating the obvious dangerous condition and not thinking about much about the future use of the lot. The whole NTI thinking has changed, and you're absolutely right when you talk about wanting to give the lot to the person next to door.

Councilman Nutter

Right. I think a part of the program is the anticipated reuse of this thing. 1800 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

So we don't want you to think we're dropping that. They're very valid issues and it's something that we will follow-up on that make sure that your concerns get addressed.

Councilman Nutter

Let's talk a little bit about zoning, zoning disputes and resolutions. We've an opportunity to work together on a number of occasions regarding some changes to the Zoning Code on the automatic stay based on appeal and a number of other things. Not to get into the --

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir. To update you a little bit on the fencing, we have people looking into to make sure that my interpretation of what I heard at the meeting was correct, if we can or cannot use bond funds to provide fencing. So the Administration has people looking into that now to make sure that my interpretation was correct that day.

Councilman Nutter

I appreciate that. Thank you. Councilman Cohen, I think, pretty well exhausted the issue of billboards and their legality and illegality. We don't have to necessarily need to go back over that territory. What I would like 1801 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to get a better understanding of is we have certain situations where people are quite persistent in either violating the law or scamming the system and so they go to court -- I mean, they apply, they get turned down, they go to zoning, they lose at zoning, they appeal the loss, as is their right, Common Pleas Court, Commonwealth Court, Supreme Court, you know, the Hague, the UN, they go wherever they go, but they lose. I've been left with the impression over time that we're either left in a situation where we hope they ultimately stop doing whatever it is that they're doing or they take away whatever they put in place which was illegal in the first place. But that when push come to shove, we don't necessarily take the next step of either removing what it is that they do not have a legal permit for or legal zoning or stop them from doing what they've been doing which they have the legal right to do. So if someone put up steps that were illegal and they've exhausted every appeal possibility, would we go in and remove or abate that particular condition and then bill them for it as a final action because the owner or the applicant has refused to come into compliance with the law and they don't have proper 1802 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET zoning to do what they're doing?

Mr. Mclaughlin

There are many cases, for example, businesses that come into existence without legally going through a process where we have notified to cease operations. And the police have the right to arrest anybody that crosses our cease line, so to speak. And we put nightclubs and other type businesses out of business using that authority. In the area of abatement, where it's reasonable, where the steps would be something that were within a reasonable cost for us to abate, we might do something like that. It's a case-by-case analysis of what the effect of whatever is illegal.

Councilman Nutter

Do we seek court orders for these kinds of actions?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

Could you tell me, if you know, how many court orders we sought to force someone to do something in the past year?

Mr. Mclaughlin

We can get you that information.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Tell me a little bit about your 1803 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET involvement -- it's mentioned in the testimony, which is what attracted my attention, your involvement with the CLIP Program.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We supply inspectors. The whole idea there is that there's a violation notice given by an L&I inspector to clean up a yard or do some other property maintenance thing. And there's a time limit given, usually a 10-day period, and the person is warned that if they don't do it that we will abate that condition ourselves and bill 12 them and lien their properties. When we first started doing this, our compliance rate was somewhere around 34 percent when we initially started the program. Now, I guess about a year and a half later, we're in the high 90s for compliance which make those original abatement dollars seem like very well invested money. So we're very happy with the CLIP Program, and it is the program that's absolutely necessary in the next neighborhood. The whole idea of creeping blight, if we don't address that next neighborhood and stop the creeping blight, that it doesn't make any sense to treat the blighted areas because we're just going to have to move to the next area if we don't stop the creeping blight. 1804 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET And that whole issue of the people who have the power to move out of a block, do so. And they leave the people who only have the option to lock their doors and stay there.

Councilman Nutter

Where do you anticipate expanding your operations to next?

Mr. Mclaughlin

We actually supply the manpower for the violation part of that program and for some of the clean-up, but the actual administration of it is with the Managing Director's Office. I know that the success of that program has everybody excited and everybody wanting to move it outside of the original areas.

Councilman Nutter

Well, not move it out. Let's make sure that we're clear. I'm very happy that it is where it is and it should continue to serve the neighborhoods where it started as a pilot program. But I think this is one of those situations where you don't need three to five-year longitudinal analysis to figure out whether it's working or not. Sometimes things just work. And the opportunity to expand into other areas, I think, is something that has attracted a fair amount of attention. 1805 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

I don't want you to look at that time and thing that anybody was dragging their feet. There were a lot of problems around violations and about where people would be, about getting the right equipment. It took a little bit of time to get the right equipment in the hands of those folks so that the, if you will, the pilot program that we were running took a little bit longer than we think anyplace else will take.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Now, have you seen over the past couple of years any decrease in the cost, given the significant amount of work that will be available, any decrease in cost of demolition? Or is it, in fact, increasing?

Mr. Mclaughlin

It's, in fact, increasing.

Councilman Nutter

Even with more work?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

Why is that?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Well, let me let Mr. Demolition talk about that.

Councilman Nutter

That's a great way to be known. 1806 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

That's a great name to have. My children will love to say, "My father is Mr. Demolition," I guess. The cost is going up because of the environmental concerns is the biggest reason. The cost to -- just with the contracts that we let with the asbestos abatement to identify where the asbestos is and then the cost to remove it has greatly, greatly increased our demolition. Also, if you remember, a couple years ago the Philadelphia Police Department Licenses and Inspections in the District Attorney's Office did an enforcement activity to determine that the contractors were leaving the proper fill in the holes or in the cavity created by the demolition. And apparently, that's driven up the cost of demolition. So that's the two main reasons. The cost of asbestos with the environmentals and what's being left in the holes in the demolition cavities is a lot better for the community and the surviving lots. And with that, Councilman, landfill costs have increased greatly. That's roughly -- the removal of debris is roughly 45 to 50 percent of the cost of demolition. 1807 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

Okay. While we're waiting on the information regarding the fencing issue, I did want to mention to you that this is the NTI program statement and budget as adopted by City Council on June 2002. And on attachment 7, there is a section under the heading of management of vacant land, No. 2 is titled, "Fencing of Vacant Lots." "The City will establish a committee to review requests for fencing of vacant lots. The committee will meet quarterly and will include a representative from each of the following organizations, City Council, City Planning Commission, Philadelphia Horticultural Society, Managing Director's Office, and Office of the Mayor. The City will support the fencing of vacant lots only if, one, fencing is a component of a broader community-based plan; two, there is an articulated and reasonable purpose for fencing; and three, there is a strategy for stewardship of the land which can be sustained over time." Now, would that leave you with the impression, as a reasonable person, that fencing is a component of the NTI Program? 1808 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes.

Councilman Nutter

All right. We'll wait for the rest of the information. Thank you Commissioner. Let's talk about enforcement of complaints. One, is the Department's philosophy still presently that enforcement of the Philadelphia Code is primarily a complaint-driven process, or do we ever have people who are out, not so much looking for violations, but certainly a part of their job is to see what's going on out in the community and try to address problems at a lower level before they escalate into something else.

Mr. Verdi

Yes, we do, Councilman. We are being proactive in a few areas. Right now as we're speaking, we have high-rise building program in effect, and tomorrow evening we look into code enforcement of nightclubs. And this is not due to the tragic accident in Rhode Island, this is an ongoing thing that we do yearly.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. Tell me a little bit, though, about the kind of your more average residential community where people are doing all kinds of things and don't 1809 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET necessarily fit into any particular program, just the usual -- maybe this is a part of, you know, "The Usual Nonsense That You Have To Deal With Program."

Mr. Verdi

Are you referring to construction work?

Councilman Nutter

No, I'm talking about the kind of stuff that Philadelphians often engage in, in either not taking care of their property, rental properties, rooming houses, party houses, all the stuff that people engage in on a regular basis that may not fit into a specific category. It's called "Life in the City."

Mr. Verdi

I understand. We look in the properties more or less multi-family dwellings, R2 program. And they'll look into every issue when they're looking in those area. When we're into an area, we just don't target just the reason why we're there. If our inspectors see different issues that involve a yard, trash, or things of that nature, they'll look into writing violations on it. For the most part, being our City the way it is, we have a lot of issues in reference to the yards and property maintenance issues that without complaints, we wouldn't be able to normally 1810 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET see.

Councilman Nutter

Well, I'm not suggesting that people should stop complaining. I mean, often it is the only way that you're going to know what's going on. On the other hand, there are just kind of things that are out there, and I guess I'm just wondering do we have people who are out on the street whose job it is to kind of seek to basically maintain a certain quality of life regardless of whether someone complains or not. I mean, I know that Councilman Rizzo has mentioned a number of times here and I've had the experience, I mean, whether it's the Water Department, the Streets Department, any of those guys. I mean, if I see a inlet that has caved in, I mean, I'm not going to drive past it and hope somehow someway that the Water Department is going to miraculously find out about it. I've called you guys about a house that seems to be under distress. I'm not an engineer, but I've learned enough from you guys to know that maybe there's something going on out thre. If I'm seeing it, other people have to see it. Whether it's ingrained in the culture or it's a part of a local neighborhood inspector who has a certain area 1811 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to keep track of that you basically say, "What are the standards of the Code? What are the quality of life issues here? And I'm calling these things in and we're getting some action taken on them before either citizens start complaining," or you get some call from some whacky elected official like myself.

Mr. Perry

This doesn't totally answer your question, Councilman. We do have a pilot program that we just started with our construction inspector trainees looking at areas of City.

Councilman Nutter

You know, we got as many pilots around here as US Airways .

Mr. Perry

I realize that. What we're doing is seeing what the return on the investment will be to put our construction inspectors out on the street specifically looking for illegal construction. And the areas that they're looking at, it's a combination of industrial, residential, and commercial strips that they're go out in advance of any type of complaint, go down the alleyways, follow trucks, looking about loading docks and see if we can find any indication of construction activity and we will it follow-up with violations and license checks. So we do want to be proactive 1812 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET in a lot of areas. We do need to be able to document what the return on the investment is and that's why we're meticulously looking at this specifically for construction permit activity at this point in time.

Mr. Verdi

Councilman, we also have a great rapport with the Police Department and Fire Department. Unfortunately, I mean, they have many more ayes than we do. And we've given them instructions -- we now do promotional instructions to the Police Department from corporal on up to explain to them and give them a little initiative into what L&I does. It gives them a better idea. We have also talked to the Police Department in looking into training. Whereas, the Health Department shares their knowledge with the Police Department; we're looking into ways to have L&I inroads with the police officers to give them an idea of what to look for as far as simple proper maintenance or quality of life issues. We do get an enormous amount of referrals from Police Department and from the Fire Department on different issues that are just not life safety issues. There are property maintenance issues we get from the police 1813 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET and there are quality of life issues we get.

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information.

Councilman Nutter

We have a point of information from the Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

I want to follow-up on Councilman Nutter's -- I had this question planned, but Councilman got to it before I did. But I do want to comment on being proactive. Every time we -- not every time. But many times when we report a dangerous condition or clean and seal request, we get the impression in many case it's the first time that L&I ever heard about it. And that proactive approach, I would greatly appreciate the fact that people are out there looking for the things that constituents see. The majority of the work in most Council offices, District Council especially, are constituent service requests. I would love to the see the day, and Councilman Nutter mentioned we don't want to have people stop complaining, but it would be so nice to be say to a person, "Yeah, that's in there," in some type of database. It was reported on a certain date. A history. Because I think it's embarrassing for a Council office to have to get back to a person and say, "We reported that" 1814 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET and not "Well, it's been reported a year ago, six months ago, three weeks ago." It would be so helpful -- and I know your constraints with your computerization. But being proactive is so important. And I don't think we do enough of that. I described a job that I would like to see some day, and I've been talking about this for three years everybody says it's a great idea. Nothing ever happens. I would love to see a person, whether it's a L&I person inspector or Streets Department person, to see the same things that I see, that Councilman Nutter sees, the broken inlet, the stop sign that's bent over. Why should a constituent have to call about a stop sign that's knocked down and has been on the side of the road for six months? We need a person that works for this City to go out there. And then I'm told, "Well, that's every City employee's responsibility to report damaged inlets or stop signs or speed limit signs that are missing or any condition that lends towards a dangerous city." I would like to see, whether it would be a responsibility of L&I with the proper funding and staffing, that we put people out into a Councilmatic 1815 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET district. I understand that we have in the Streets Department a plan of all the street signs of everything that's installed. I see posts in the street, no sign attached to them, but there's a post. There was a sign there. There had to be something. For years I've been looking and I've 9 reported this sign that's there, a post, with 10 nothing attached to. Do you think that that's a 11 possibility that L&I could be doing more than just 12 looking for those things that you're now responsible 13 for, to have a job -- again, I'm not asking you to 14 try to do this with the existing budget and the 15 existing personnel numbers that you, but do you 16 think L&I could do more than just look at the issues 17 that you're responsible for and that we could have 18 like a super-inspector that's out there looking at 19 all of these various issues and reporting them. 20 Because people call, we call as members of Council to Water Department, Streets Department, L&I. It would be, I think, very efficient and very effective to have some professional eyes maybe out of risk management, I don't know, to be able to help with some of these things. But, Commissioner, the 1816 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET suggestion that a constituent gets is that house that's been filled with trash for a couple years when they call that it's all new to us like we don't know anything about it. Can we get the history from L&I on a particular address?

Mr. Mclaughlin

Well, the day you wish for is today. You have been able to do that for a while by virtue of the Hansen System that we have in effect. The Hansen System, when a complaint comes in, the Hansen System assigns it a number, and we give the person who calls that number. So when that person calls you, you might ask them what the complaint number is, what is the L&I number that they were given because that's the number that will allow us to track that particular complaint. In addition, when the complaint taker brings that address up on the screen, the complaint taker can see all of the complaints now. We had the same problem in L&I as the police had. All of our different call takers would take information and be sending people out willy-nilly without having any sense of the fact that two days ago there had been an inspection there. 1817 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET So now we can see all that. We can say, "Mrs. Jones, you called on such and such a date." I've mentioned here before that our inspections are invisible. A lot of time people don't know that L&I has been there. And we try not to go anywhere near complainant because we don't want to light the complainant up. A lot of times the complainant doesn't want anybody else to know that they were the complainant. So the inspection takes place. People don't know it. Now they're going to be able -- now by calling L&I we can tell them that in 60 days they'll be able to go on-line themselves and see all that and make complaints on-line. What I see in the future is the technology is going to y take care of the quality of life issues. The handheld devices are two-way devices. They can report back problems also. We can send information. But I don't want to spread L&I into an area that the Streets Department already has responsibility for. We're responsible for property maintenance. We're not responsible for the signs. And it's not that I don't want to be responsible or L&I doesn't want to be, it's that there already is another department that is 1818 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET responsible for that. The handheld devices are going to really open L&I up to a lot more efficiency in reporting back what's going on, us sending information out, actually making assignments and giving them the history, giving the inspector the history of that particular location right on the handheld computer.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I understand. That's great, it's coming. But here's the situation. A constituent calls. They don't have the little number you referred to. They have an address 8224 Provident Road because they've never called before. We e-mail things over to you, but there's no tracking system. The Streets Department's got a system that works fairly well. They respond back because it assigns a tracking number. We send things over to your e-mail address, it's just like sending you an e-mail but it's just to a different address. There's no real, as far as we can see at our end, any way we can track the progress of any particular job. Here's what I would like to know. How can I as office go in put in 8224 Provident Road and see what L&I's history is on that particular case so 1819 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I can say to someone right immediately on the phone, "Your complaint has already been reported three weeks ago." And we could even send them a copy of it. My point being is it's very difficult to get the history or be able to intelligently speak because every case that comes in, we're like starting at zero because we have no communication. And I know when I first came to Council I asked technology people could we have access to certain areas of the operating department so we could look for ourself. And I don't know what we have access to from our database to yours, but we could be helpful to you in being able to tell people the status of a particular issue because almost every job that comes in is like brand-new to us. We don't necessarily track it at our end, and we have no idea how many times or how many calls have come in in reference to that particular location. So I hope you're understanding what I'm trying to say here. But again, I don't see that level of sophistication today. And you indicated there is some new things so if somebody could stop over and show me how to work all this stuff, I'd love that. 1820 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

I would like to invite you over, you and any Councilperson that's interested, over to L&I to see and get a demonstration of what we actually have now. What the person who calls L&I is talking to a call taker that has all the information that you're talking about that you wish that we had, we do have. And we're able to tell people that. And I urge anybody that is interesting in this to come over, see Hansen work, see the call intake that we've had for two or three years now. And we're building information. We had to start at ground zero. We couldn't take the corrupted data and put it into the system. So we had to keep building the Hansen system, but we've been doing that for a while, and especially on recurring problems we've got some pretty good records.

Councilman Rizzo

I think that's perfect. I think that what I need to do is have a sit-down with somebody from your organization and my organization so we can get the same page so we're not continually duplicating requests so we have maybe on-line capability to understand what we're dealing with here, because we send something over to 1821 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you, we're at your mercy to get a response. There's times when I ask about a particular request that we made via the e-mail, there's maybe four that we get answers to and four more that we don't get answers to. So we need to develop a relationship that puts us in a position where we can manage our request to you because we can't, at least I don't believe we can at this point.

Mr. Mclaughlin

I think we've got some good news for you.

Councilman Rizzo

I'd like for you to have somebody contact me so I can get people together to kind of make my operation more efficient and give more support to yours. Councilman Nutter thank you for that long point of order.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilman, if I can make statement. As per the statement you read from the NTI ordinance that was passed, fencing will be done according to that. And the reason that I was out of the loop, our department, we're not mentioned in that. So that committee will be deciding where and when fences are provided, as per what you read to us about 20 minutes ago. 1822 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

All right. So the bottom line on that portion is we will be doing fencing as a part of the NTI Program. NTI bond proceeds are eligible to used for fencing and in accordance with what's in the program statement and the law, because the law generally outranks even a program statement, as long as we do it in accordance with the law and the principles of the NTI Program, we can use NTI proceeds for fencing.

Mr. Mclaughlin

That's a good statement.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Rental houses. Commissioner, I contacted you a little while ago about four properties in my district, 2436 North 54th Street, 5215 Church Road, 2030 Upland Way, and 2039 Upland Way. I would greatly appreciate it so I can respond to my constituents on those particular properties. It is our understanding from a variety of complaints and reports that these are single family houses that are rented to college students. We believe that there are more than three unrelated in the properties. I also want to give you some information that 2030 and 2039 were recently visited by L&I. 1823 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET It's my understanding that there was an inspector who is an L&I housing and fire inspector by the name of Ms. Daniels who was also there with a Stanley Robinson and a Lamar Cade. It is my understanding from the neighbors that Ms. Daniels found that both of these properties were in serious violation of the Philadelphia Code. 2030 was found to have nine beds in the property. 2039 was found to be filthy and in her opinion, at least, should possibly be condemned. It is my further understanding from constituents that Ms. Daniels' opinion was overridden by the other two individuals on site and that a determination was made that no further action will be taken on those properties. I have not seen the houses personally, but I will certainly take from good report from the constituents. And the letter that I sent you, I believe, was prior to these most recent inspections. These properties have been a problem in the community, specifically the two on Upland Way. I do not understand the dispute, if you will, or difference of opinion between the various inspectors, and given the neighbors' knowledge of what's going on over there, how the other two inspectors could overrule the other person. This 1824 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET kind of activity cannot be allowed to stand. And if there are these kinds of conditions, they need to be addressed. I don't know what's going on between and among any of these folks. And quite honestly, I don't really care. What I care about is that we get action on these houses, that neighbors not be subject to all of these wild and bizarre conditions, whether of a housing nature, of a behavioral circumstance, or a gross violation of the Zoning Code. And these fit in the "Life In Big City Program" category. This is the stuff that goes on out in neighborhoods for which there is no special program but need serious and direct attention.

Mr. Verdi

I'll have your answer by this afternoon, Councilman, on both properties. But if I'm not mistaken, I s personally involved with one of them. And there was an issue whether or not the supposed tenants that didn't live there that did live there moved out. But I'll have a report to you by this afternoon.

Councilman Nutter

I appreciate it. Commissioner, with the computer system that you have, and I know I've called to -- there's some number where you can get, it's kind of like 1825 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET your central -- it's not the wondrous central personnel that we heard about. But you have some kind of central place where, I guess, you can give an address and people can plug it into the system and find out violations. I would like if you could print out for us in some kind of order, first by council district and then maybe alphabetical by street, I would like to know of every violation against every property in the City of Philadelphia to see what the level of the backlog is, because I have experienced in many instances there are violations sitting in the system that are five, six, seven, eight years old. I have no idea what's happening with those violations. I have no idea where they are quote/unquote in the system. Not just sitting in the computer but where are they in terms of going toward any kind of enforcement action, or are they just sitting in some kind suspended file somewhere. So I'd like to actually be aware of what's going on out there. And maybe to narrow it down, lest your computer guy back there, his head might explode, why don't we start at least with the Zoning Code violations that exist throughout the City? 1826 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Mclaughlin

Yes, we can do that. That's what the conversation is here.

Councilman Nutter

I thought they might be talking about that.

Mr. Mclaughlin

In about a week.

Councilman Nutter

Great. Tell me about implementation of the School Inspection Bill.

Mr. Verdi

We have been in contact with the School District through our chief of the fire unit, John Higgins. We're looking into the different issues that have to be addressed, how the inspectors are going to address them. We've recently also added the inspections that involve charter schools. So we've been working along with the School District to identify different areas that are involved in legislation.

Councilman Nutter

So Deputy Commissioner Verdi, the bottom line on that is?

Mr. Verdi

We're inspecting schools.

Councilman Nutter

And you expect to have the necessary reports compiled in the time frames as laid out by the legislation?

Mr. Verdi

We hope so. 1827 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner, hope springs eternal. I need something a little better than hope.

Mr. Verdi

We should have all the information compiled. Again, as I said, John Higgins is working on that along with som high-rise programs. I'll get an update from him to see how far along we are with that information. Again, all the information, Councilman, that may take a little bit time to get coordinated, was the information that we're doing in a data basis now and have to do redundant work when the system comes on board in July. We have to make sure the database that we're putting all this information into is accessible by the computer system whereby you'll be able to get your own report at a touch of a button. So it's taken us a little bit longer to have this information laid out for us for the computer system.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Give me an update, if you can, on implementation of the Educational Housing District Bill. You may remember that legislation.

Mr. Mclaughlin

We remember it. 1828 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Verdi

Councilman, I'll speak to our housing chief in relation to when the survey is going start and information that he has already compiled.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you very much. Madam Chair, I'm complete for this round.

Councilwoman Verna

Thank you. The Chair at this time recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell. Councilwoman Blackwell is going to yield to Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. On pages 47-29, 47-55 and 47-62, there are a number of professional services contracts to be let for various projects. Would you tell me what your efforts to include minority and women business owners in these projects? You have on -29 there's a $2 million lot cleaning program.

Mr. Solvibile

Councilwoman, that's Managing Director's Office, I believe. That's in their -- that's for the Managing Director's lot cleaning program that we discussed earlier. It's 1829 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET not controlled by L&I. And it's also done by City employees. It's not done by outside contractors, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Tasco

So these people are hired to do the lot cleaning?

Mr. Solvibile

Yes, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Tasco

Why is it in your budget and not in the Managing Director's budget?

Mr. Solvibile

A leap of faith would be that we have to write violations to allow them to clean the lots and that's why it's part of our budget.

Councilwoman Tasco

Beg your pardon?

Mr. Solvibile

We have to write the violations that allows them to clean the lots. Under the Code, we have to order the owner to keep the lot clean and free of debris and weeds and noxious growth.

Councilwoman Tasco

But it was just brought to my attention, as I said earlier, these are under Class 200, not under personnel. This is professional services. 47-29.

Mr. Feldgus

This is refuse removal so that we're talking here -- I don't have the details 1830 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET on that, but I'm presuming what we're talking about is, again, landfill costs, things of that nature that the City has to purchase once that trash is removed so that we can remove the trash and debris. This would support the lot cleaning efforts. When they take that trash off, they have to dump it somewhere.

Councilwoman Tasco

So are you telling me --

Councilwoman Verna

Councilwoman, do you mind just two minutes for the stenographers to change.

Councilwoman Tasco

Oh, sure. - - - 1831 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Councilwoman Tasco, please proceed with your line of questioning.

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes. -29, Item 205, I'd like to know what that money is for.

Mr. Feldgus

Refuse removal.

Councilwoman Tasco

Who is going to do the contract?

Mr. Feldgus

That will be handled by the managing director's office even though it's in our budget. We will not be handling that contract.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is that refuse removal?

Councilwoman Tasco

So the managing director will pay --

Councilwoman Tasco

It will be in their --

Mr. Feldgus

They'll be making the arrangements on that contract.

Councilwoman Tasco

Why isn't it in their budget?

Mr. Feldgus

I think the answer was given previously. The way the Philadelphia Homeland 1832 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Charter reads, Department of Licenses & Inspections has to do the inspection and we have to order the lot cleaned, and we're the only people authorized to do that under the Charter. So we do that, and then the City is moving in and cleaning up the lot, and that's where this comes in. So it comes into our budget because it's an abatement function. Because what happens is, under that abatement power that we have in L&I, we can then bill the owner of the lot for the cost of the refuse removal. We could not -- if it was just under the managing director's office, they would not be -- they would be able to remove it, but they wouldn't be able to bill the owner. So the charge is put under L&I, so that allows for a billing of the services that are rendered by the City.

Councilwoman Tasco

So do you have minority contractors who can or women -- well, that includes all women too -- that would be included in this contract?

Mr. Feldgus

I don't have the details on that. I know that in the contracts we have in demolition, which they do refuse removal, we do have a significant number of minority and female 1833 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET contractors, and I would suspect there are people available, but you'd have to talk to the folks who administer that contract.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you're saying the managing director is going to supervise this lot --

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. Fine. You have transportation abatement of nuisances, but also in Class 200.

Mr. Feldgus

Well, the transportation actually is SEPTA. We have a large -- and mileage reimbursement to our inspectors. That's a purchase of service, but it's not a contract, other than the fact that we buy SEPTA passes or we reimburse our people for mileage. So there is no participation there.

Councilwoman Tasco

How much do you charge for your mileage?

Mr. Feldgus

I think it's a standard rate that's negotiated with the unions, and it's 31 cents a mile at this point.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. And the nuisance abatement? 1834 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Feldgus

Nuisance abatement is hazardous chemical removals, and we have contractors. They have to be certified to do that type of work because of the nature of the materials that they're removing. And we use them, we call them. And typically what happens is, we're paying for that. A lot of that work is, the fire department goes out and they find these hazardous chemicals or materials, and then we're actually paying the charge for having a certified contractor come in who is certified to handle those kind of hazardous chemicals and remove them.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. Let's go to -55. What about your commercial off-the-shelf software license?

Mr. Feldgus

Well, there we're actually paying for the use of software, and that's just a commercial product that we're buying. It would be like Microsoft Office. In this particular case, the company is Hanson, and they produce a software product that we're going to be using on our computers. And we do have a minority vendor involved with the Hanson program. 1835 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Tasco

Excuse me a minute. Okay. On -54, looking at Item 251, there's a $1.7 million item, departmental automation initiative. What does that mean?

Mr. Feldgus

That's the major contract that we're going to implement to get the Department fully computerized in the coming year. And the contracts have not been awarded yet, but we hope to have them awarded. The contractor that we've been using up to this point is Hanson Technologies, Inc., and there is a minority participation there of approximately percent in that contract. 15

Councilwoman Tasco

Who is the minority 16 participant? 17

Mr. Feldgus

Veridyne. 18

Councilwoman Tasco

Where are they 19 located? Where is Hanson located? 20

Mr. Feldgus

Broomall, Pennsylvania. 21

Councilwoman Tasco

What's Veridyne? 22

Mr. Feldgus

That's the name of the 23 company --

Councilwoman Tasco

How do you spell it? 1836 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Feldgus

V-E-R-I-D-Y-N-E.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is that a woman?

Mr. Feldgus

Minority folk.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, women are considered minorities, although we're the majority. Excuse me a minute. Looking at -62, you have for year 2002 and estimated for 2003 repair and maintenance, stucco of exposed parted wall following demolition of adjacent building. Why are we doing that? Shouldn't the contractor do that?

Mr. Feldgus

If you notice, these are estimated obligations. In '04, we're no longer going to be doing this. Up to this point, we've had separate contracts for the stucco contractor and the demolition contractor. Under the NTI program, which will be funding demolition hence forth, the primary contractor will be responsible to sub out the stucco work, and he'll have the entire contract.

Mr. Solvibile

The reason for that, Councilwoman, is, it gives the contractor more opportunity to gain minority and MBEC and WBEC and 1837 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET handicapped participation, but more subcontracting opportunities that are in the bid.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Good afternoon. I assume that I'm probably the last, so --

Council President Verna

I'm afraid not, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Cheese and rice. So suffice it to say, I thought I would be last and wanted to say thank you all for all that you do. Our City couldn't run without you. Thank you. Thank you all.

Mr. Feldgus

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Is that it, Councilwoman?

Councilwoman Blackwell

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo, your light is on for 1838 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you to be recognized.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, I'm going to take advantage of you all being here to ask a question, and, again, it goes back to a safety issue. I'm dealing with an issue right now that involves a large complex, many hundreds of apartments, and I'm learning from the residents that this particular complex -- and I won't name it publicly here; privately I will. And I'd appreciate it if you know what I'm talking about, don't reveal it -- has no emergency lighting, exit signs, nothing. They're hanging their hat on the fact that they have dual service from PECO Energy that in the event they lose a circuit, that it switches over to the alternate circuit. Now, I think all of you know I did 33 years at PECO, and I can tell you many times these circuits do transfer almost instantaneously, but there's many times that they don't. How we can allow a multi-level many-floor apartment complex to have no emergency lighting or illuminated exit signs -- they lose the 1839 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET power in this building, there's no windows, it is as dark as can be. And the management company says that there is no requirement to do that because they have dual service. Well, I'm not sure that that is something you should allow to continue. So I'd like to comment on -- did I express the facts as -- is that an accurate description, that if a complex has dual service, that they don't have to have emergency lighting or illuminated exit signs?

Mr. Verdi

They don't have to have an emergency back-up generator. There can be in this case -- in this room, you'll see different heads for emergency lighting. In the case of that building, the emergency lighting may be on the system, on the line system itself, where when it switches over, a certain amount of lighting happens in the hallways and the common areas.

Councilman Rizzo

There's no signs, Commissioner.

Mr. Verdi

There's no signs whatsoever as far as exits at all?

Councilman Rizzo

Well, nothing 1840 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET illuminated.

Mr. Verdi

Because certain signs are not electrified, but there are signs that are able to be seen in the dark. There's a different type of sign that's being used in different areas. It's an approved sign to be used in buildings. It doesn't have to be an illuminated sign. It has to be illuminated in the dark.

Councilman Rizzo

How do people find their way through hallways with no lighting?

Mr. Verdi

Again, the system in the building may not be a back-up generator, but a switchover on PECO's line, which has existing the lighting on the emergency system. Just because if you go into certain buildings; for instance, the Municipal Services Building across the street, just because you don't see emergency lighting heads doesn't mean they don't have the system on an emergency lighting back-up.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I must not have expressed myself clearly. This particular building has no lighting for exit during -- no 24 battery back-up lighting. The dual circuit -- Commissioner, when a complex applies for electric 1841 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET service, there's two things they can do. They can have a single service or they can have a dual service. In the event there's an interruption on Service A, instantaneously a circuit breaker is supposed to close and restore to the service. It's supposed to happen like that. The building management company claims that they have to have no battery back-up because of the situation that they have dual service. I have tenants at that particular complex telling me right now that they have experienced interruptions of electric service, there is no lighting. You can't see your palm in front of your hand in this particular building. And they claim that they do not have to have back-up lighting because the Department of L&I doesn't require it because they are a dual service building.

Mr. Verdi

Councilman, if you give me the address after our hearings, I'll be happy to look into it and get a report to you.

Councilman Rizzo

But do you know of any requirement not have battery back-up lighting?

Mr. Verdi

No, not until I look at the situation. But, again, dual services are allowed, 1842 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET and if Dave wants to speak to it.

Mr. Perri

Councilman, in terms of providing the power for the emergency systems, there was a cut-off date -- I believe it was 1981. I can get you the exact date -- in which older buildings that had dual service, they're allowed to continue to have that dual service to supply emergency systems. That's not to say that they're not required to have certain lighting on an emergency service or exit signs. They would still need to have that. Just having the dual service doesn't make that building exempt from emergency systems. But they can use the dual service, as being an older building, to provide a back-up power source.

Councilman Rizzo

And I can tell you from experience that there are occasions when that transition from one service to the second service does not work as smoothly as a circuit breaker popping in your home and you walk up and reset it. It doesn't always work that way. And this building pre-dates that '81 date that you have mentioned, and I believe these folks that run this particular building are hanging their hat on that, and people 1843 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that live in this complex have experienced interruptions of power and have been in a situation where they are in total darkness and terrified when that occurs. Not frequently, but it has occurred. And I think what we really need to do is to go back and look at how many buildings fall under that grandfather situation to see if maybe we ought to rethink that and put some emergency back-up, the battery-type, that at least give people the ability to exit a building in safety in the event of a power interruption. Who is to say that both circuits don't go? I mean, to have that back-up, have that rationale that because they have a back-up makes it okay, you could have -- you know, there's been many times both circuits have gone. Hospitals have two circuits, and there's been situations where hospitals have lost both circuits and had to go to their back-up generation equipment, where I don't believe this property has a back-up generation system.

Mr. Perri

That's a good point you make, Councilman. I think we'll have to look into it, as Dominic Verdi says, but I think they're 1844 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET misinterpreting what the intent of that 1981 cut-off was. Also, because of the 9/11 incident, there is code research and a school of thinking that regardless of having -- whether or not your primary power is in place, that buildings should also include battery-type emergency lighting and exit signs. Because in the event that you have a major failure in that building where all the external power is cut off, you still want to provide lighted egress paths. We may be seeing that coming into the codes locally as a result of the experience up at the World Trade Center.

Councilman Rizzo

I think most of us in this room, other than a few, live through the total interruption of power throughout the east coast back in the early '60s, I think it was, where we were without power. Dual services, three services, four wouldn't have worked. The grid that fed the electricity to this region was out. And I can imagine living in a complex like that trying to get out where there's no, even on the daytime, light from outside. 1845 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET So I would appreciate -- I'm going to work with you. I'll give you the name of this particular complex privately, because I don't want to alarm anyone that may live there and not be aware of this condition. But I think we have a bigger picture also to look at to explore how many situations like this exist in our city that may need to have, again, a good relationship to get this problem resolved with the property manager. Not running in and citing them, but working together to try to address my concern and yours, I can see that. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. MR. McLAUGHLIN: Thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilwoman Tasco's light is on. Is she in the room?

The Clerk

No, ma'am. She left.

Council President Verna

Very well. Any other questions from members of the Committee? Seeing none, gentlemen, thank you very much. 1846 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Solvibile

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Next to testify is the Board of L&I Review. Hello. Back again.

Mr. Feldgus

Good afternoon, Councilwoman Verna. Once again, I'm here as the Boards. My last time.

Council President Verna

Please proceed.

Mr. Feldgus

Councilwoman Verna, Members of City Council, I am here representing the Board of Licenses & Inspections Review. I am here today to testify on behalf of the Board and our FY 2004 budget request of $212,000, an increase of $2,446 over our FY '03 estimated obligations. This increase reflects monies to fund wage increases to our support staff. The budget we are requesting will provide for a full-time staff of three employees, as well as funding six Board members. In FY '02, the Board heard and rendered decisions in 702 cases. In FY '03, we are projecting that we will be hearing 1,030 cases, and we projected in FY '04, 1,111 cases. 1847 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Currently the Board is hearing and rendering decisions in approximately 60 days from when an appeal is filed with the Board. Thank you, and I would be happy to answer any questions.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilwoman Blackwell, do you have any questions?

Councilwoman Blackwell

No, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much.

Mr. Feldgus

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Board of Building Standards.

Mr. Feldgus

Yes. I'm here for that, too.

Council President Verna

We just don't want you to leave.

Mr. Feldgus

Right. Well, my friends did, if you notice.

Council President Verna

I thought we were all friends.

Mr. Feldgus

We are. Councilwoman Verna, I am Richard 1848 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Feldgus, administrator of the Department of Licenses & Inspections who overseas the Boards. I'm here to testify on behalf of the Board of Building Standards' fiscal year '04 budget request of $121,054, an increase of $2,103 over our FY '03 appropriations. This funding will support two full-time employees and four Board members. The role of the Board of Building Standards is to advise the Commissioner of the Department of Licenses & Inspections on requests for variances, as well as provide interpretations of the Building Code and make suggestions for standards and regulations dealing with building safety. The Board also reviews new and substitute materials and methods of construction and makes recommendations to the Commissioner to keep Philadelphia up to date and competitive with the latest building technologies. In FY '04, it is anticipated the Board will conduct 50 meetings and hear 275 cases. In FY '02, the Board heard 275 cases and has provided recommendations to the Commissioner on those cases. The time for obtaining decisions from 1849 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the Board is currently 30 days. The Board also provides accelerated hearings to persons requiring quick turnarounds. A total of 49 accelerated hearings were conducted in FY '02. I will be glad to answer any questions at this time.

Council President Verna

I don't have any questions. Councilwoman Blackwell?

Councilwoman Blackwell

No, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Well, thank you for a job well done.

Mr. Feldgus

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Zoning Board of Adjustment will be next.

Council President Verna

Wonderful.

Mr. Feldgus

Good afternoon, Council President Verna, Members of City Council. I am Richard Feldgus, administrator of the Department of Licenses & Inspections who provides administrative support to the Zoning Board of Adjustment. I am here today to testify on behalf of the Board's proposed FY '04 budget. 1850 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The Zoning Board is requesting a budget of $503,000 for FY '04, an increase of 6,213 over the estimated obligations for '03. The FY '04 budget will support full-time staff of six employees and five Board members. During FY '02, this should read -- it says '01 in the testimony; it's '02 -- the Board conducted 254 meetings. The Zoning Board provides vital service to those who work, live and do business in Philadelphia, in that it provides an opportunity to appeal zoning determinations and to request variances from the Zoning Code where the code imposes an unnecessary hardship on the property owner. The Board also grants certificates for certain types of zoning uses as prescribed by ordinances of City Council. In FY '03, we project the Board will hear 2,247 cases. In FY '04, we project the Board will hear 2,253 cases. In FY '02, the Board heard 1,503 cases. Currently the Board is rendering decision within 30 days of the date of appeal. We continue to offer accelerated hearings for those persons who require quick service from the Board. The cost of the special hearings 1851 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are paid by the persons who request that accelerated hearing. In FY '02, we heard 429 accelerated cases. In FY '03 and '04, we project that number will be approximately the same, 425. Thank you for this opportunity to provide the Board's testimony.

Council President Verna

How long does an applicant have to wait when they make a request for an accelerated hearing?

Mr. Feldgus

Typically right now, because of the large numbers of accelerated hearing requests that we're getting, it's approximately three weeks. We were doing it a little bit -- we were trying to shoot for the minimum period, the posting period, which I believe is 11 days, but because of the additional numbers --

Council President Verna

So if they didn't ask for the accelerated hearing, how long would they have to wait?

Mr. Feldgus

Probably an additional two weeks above that. The Zoning Board has become much more active in recent years. About three years ago we 1852 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET were doing about to 1600 cases per year. We're now up over 2200 cases per year. So we've almost had a 50 percent increase in the number of cases coming before the Zoning Board. A large number --

Council President Verna

And we've had 7 the same amount of employee; you said six employees? 8

Mr. Feldgus

Six employees, that's 9 correct. 10

Council President Verna

Plus the 11 Board? 12

Mr. Feldgus

Yeah. In fact, actually, 13 we will probably be reducing -- we will be losing 14 one of the employees, who is a DROP person, and 15 we'll hopefully refill that position. But there's a lot of pressure on that Board because of the voluminous number of cases. That Board is probably the most active of all of the boards in boards or commissions that meet on a regular basis in the City of Philadelphia.

Council President Verna

I would agree. Any questions from members of the Committee? Any comments from members of the Committee? Seeing none, thank you very much, 1853 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Mr. Feldgus.

Mr. Feldgus

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Streets Department is next. Good afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Ms. Tolson

Good afternoon, Madam President. Good afternoon, Council President Verna and Members of Council. I am Clarena Tolson, commissioner of the Streets Department. I'm here today to present testimony on behalf of the Streets Department's proposed fiscal year 2004 operating budget. The employees of the Streets Department continue to work hard to fulfill our basic mission of providing clean and safe streets for our citizens. We request a general fund appropriation of $120,449,118 --

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. Do you mind pulling the microphone just a little closer to you. I don't think the stenographer can hear you. 1854 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

We request a general fund appropriation of $120 million, an all funds appropriation of $149 million. Our proposed budget reflects a net general fund increase of $2.3 million from fiscal year 2003 estimated obligations. The overall request for the Department for all funds, general, county liquid fuels, special gas tax funds and grants revenue, is a net $2.6 million higher than our fiscal year 2003 estimated obligations. The net increase of the general fund will support negotiated wage increases, increased landfill fees, contractual cost of living increases and state surcharges, and an adequate supply of salt for an average winter, including the continuation of the city-wide residential plowing program. This net increase also reflects a staffing level decrease from 2,047 FY 2003 to 2,043 in FY 2004. With this budget, the Department will maintain most of the service levels achieved in fiscal 2003. For example, the Highway Division is on target to resurface 100 miles of streets and linestripe 1,100 intersections, approximately 750,000 square feet -- 1855 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

Clarena, I'm sorry. You're going to have to pull the microphone closer.

Ms. Tolson

-- (continued) 750,000 square feet in FY 2003 and plans the same levels for FY 2004. Sanitation will continue to provide timely refuse and recycling collection services to households. 8 million over FY 2003 estimated obligations, primarily to support the 3 percent wage increase, the DROP lump sum payments and contractual increases in landfill fees. With this budget, Sanitation will continue to provide a variety of programs designed to collect and dispose of trash, as well as divert recyclables from the waste stream. 5 percent of respondents said their trash was always or frequently collected on time, the highest level reported in the six years of 1856 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the survey. Continuing managerial enhancements and the use of more efficient trash compactors have contributed towards productivity improvements. These include on-time collections of 96 percent in fiscal 2002 and a projected 97 percent for fiscal 2003 and fiscal 2004. 35 tons in fiscal 2004. The FY 2004 request for Sanitation funds the cleaning schedule for arterial and commercial corridors, as well as the neighborhood cleaning program. The street cleaning program targets street debris and litter with a fleet of mechanical street sweepers and motorized sidewalk cleaners. In fiscal 2002, the division successfully used two small and versatile ride-on/walk-behind sweepers that can safely and effectively maneuver into and around tight spaces. Implementation of three additional units of this type is planned for fiscal 2003, with continued use in 2004. In fiscal 2002, 38,724 tons of recyclables were collected. Resulting from the launch of the multi-media advertising campaign in 1857 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET March 2002 and operational changes completed in June of 2002 -- that's when we switched from the collection being the day before trash every other week to the same day as trash every other week -- projections for 2003 and fiscal 2004 are higher than previous years. Another positive development for recycling was the negotiation of the most favorable contractual rates in nearly a decade. Industry analysts have noted that Philadelphia's marketing arrangement is the best of any big city on the east coast. Combined with favorable marketing conditions for recycling materials, we anticipate exceeding our revenue projections for fiscal 2003 and fiscal 2004. As of January 2003, recycling has been instituted in 380 City office buildings receiving municipal refuse collection, including the Municipal Services Building, Criminal Justice Center, City Hall, branch libraries, police headquarters, the Fire Administration Building. The recycling office provided training and technical assistance on all these projects. During fiscal 2002, 2,683 residents participated in seven drop-off events at six 1858 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET locations throughout the City. Approximately 113 tons of household hazardous waste was collected. In fiscal 2003 and 2004, seven drop-off events are again planned, with an increased focus on proper management of used paint and a projected increase in participation of percent. 8 Also, the Sanitation Division 9 successfully added a new site in the southwest 10 section of the City. The Department will continue to offer Saturday or weekday events in all or parts of the City. New education efforts included the development and distribution of a brochure on proper management and disposal of the used oil. The Sanitation Division has also been working with the Women's Health and Environmental Network supporting its mercury thermometer exchange program as part of the Regional Southeastern Pennsylvania Household Hazardous Waste Program. Starting in spring of 2001 and through 2002, over 13,000 mercury thermometers were collected, equivalent to 10,000 grams of mercury, a very toxic substance. On October 30, 2002, the Mayor issued a proclamation proclaiming Mercury-Free Philly Campaign Day.

Ms. Tolson

For 2003, plans are being developed 1859 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET for other mercury thermometer exchange programs. The SWEEP program provides education and enforcement of the City's regulations and ordinances pertaining to refuse and recycling collection, sidewalk cleaning and the proper maintenance of dumpsters. The program is divided into commercial corridors and residential areas, educating residents in the sanitation, recycling and parking regulations in street cleaning programs. Violations and non-compliance of City regulations are typically addressed in a sequence of education and enforcement. In FY 2002, 24,000 citations were issued. The FY 2003 and 2004 projection is for 26,000 citations per year. In addition to the support of neighborhoods that we provide through street cleaning, city-wide recycling, partnership recycling and the SWEEP program, the Department will continue to support the Clean Block Program. In 2003 and 2004, as we have for over 50 years, we will continue to fund and support the PMBC Clean Block Program. That's the Philadelphia More Beautiful Committee Clean Block Program. In conjunction with the Mayor's fight 1860 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET against blight, the Department's Planning and Public Affairs Office is coordinating a PMBC block captain rally scheduled for late March 2003. The rally will serve as an opportunity to recruit new block captains and junior block captains to continue the volunteer cleaning and beautification efforts. In 2002, there were 77,000 volunteers and over 11,000 block clean-ups. The goal for 2003 and 2004 is for participation to reach 100,000 volunteers and block clean-ups to reach 15,000. The Streets Department's goal is to provide improving overall operations while reducing costs. Providing for reliable and efficient trash collection and recycling, keeping streets clean and ensuring that lots are free of debris, as always, remain a priority. Additionally, the Department is striving toward developing pride in neighborhoods by forming partnerships with community groups to help keep streets clean and ensure that residents follow refuse and recycling guidelines. With regard to our transportation services, the Highway, Engineering, Traffic and Street Lighting Divisions provide the Department's 1861 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET transportation services. The goal of the Transportation Division is to continue to provide cost-effective and functionally safe movement on streets and bridges for public transit, commerce and automobiles, as well as for bicycles and pedestrians. We will accomplish this by continually exploring new approaches to improve productivity and delivery of services, such as continuing to invest in innovative geographic and management information systems, managerial accounting and information systems, and through upgrading of computer equipment. We will continue to focus on those services that make the City a safer environment. 8 million square yards, approximately 100 miles, of city streets. The Division plans to place 750,000 square feet, approximately 85 linear miles, of pavement markings, traffic lines, and to perform 7,500 ditch restorations in fiscal 2003 and 7,000 in fiscal 2004. The Department repaired 11,000 potholes in fiscal 2002 -- exactly, it was 11,593 -- and 1862 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET projects to repair 25,000 in fiscal 2003 and 2004. In FY 2003, the Division again leased spray patcher units, also known as pothole killer machines, to assist during the peak repair months. These machines quickly and safely performed the repair in a more durable and economical manner. We performed 966,000 linear feet of crack sealing in fiscal 2002 and project over 1 million in both fiscal 2003 and fiscal 2004. This technique extends the life cycle of the City's streets by preventing water from entering the sub-base of the street, a major cause of potholes.

Ms. Tolson

This should decrease the number of potholes and other premature roadway foundation failures. Due to the passage of the Telecommunications Act in 1996, the City has seen the number of telecommunications firms seeking to install fiberoptic lines increase from one to 15. Consequently, over 680 miles of streets have been impacted by construction since that time. Each time a street is opened by a utility or a telecommunications company, it significantly shortens the life of that street. To address this, the Department is working with the Department of 1863 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Public Property, the Law Department, the managing director's office to develop a new regulatory mechanism, update regulations and improve work flows to better coordinate street openings and minimize the number of times that streets are opened. Our goal is to have the Right-of-Way Ordinance submitted to City Council in the spring of this year. As a result of the MDO's Task Force on the Permitting Processes, the Streets Department reduced the driveway, or curb cut, construction plan review from six weeks to one week. Also, the Department's Guaranteed Pavement Information System, GPIS, an Internet-based Street Opening Permit System, is scheduled to go on line in March of 2003. This system will reduce the street opening permit process for utilities and telecom firms from 12 weeks to two weeks. Relative to storm response, the Streets Department has been working with the MDO and the Office of Fleet Management to update the City's Snow and Ice Operations Plan in order to increase the City's ability to plow neighborhood streets. The City now plows tertiary residential streets during significant snowstorms. 6 percent of the City's 2,300 miles of streets, including 900 miles of our tertiary streets, were passable by that Friday. Due to the four-day duration of that storm, costs are still being tabulated. Also, in fiscal 2003, the City leased snow-melting machines for the third consecutive year, and the Department again used salt brine, a mixture of salt and water, in higher elevation neighborhoods. This is more cost effective than the traditional salting process because the brine mix uses the optimum concentration of salt. Both will continue to be used in fiscal 2004. Street lighting: The Street Lighting Division is responsible for the maintenance of 100,000 street lights and 18,000 alley lights. As part of its ongoing city-wide program to replace obsolete fixtures, over 75,000 lights have been replaced with energy-efficient, high-pressure sodium fixtures that require fewer repairs. Additionally, recent lighting modernization projects along selected corridors, such as Kelly Drive, have improved system reliability. Some of the City's oldest traffic 1865 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET signals at nearly 500 intersections in Center City and the Northeast will be modernized by fiscal 2004. By the end of 2003, the Department will have modernized 454 intersections. City-wide, this is an ongoing program involving city, state and federal funds to improve over 2,800 signalized intersections. Once a signal has been modernized, the Department is able to link it to a centralized control center. The centralized control center, which became operational in fiscal 2001, allows the Department to modify traffic signal timing remotely in order to improve traffic flow and alerts the Department about needed repairs. The Department anticipates all Center City intersection upgrades will be completed by fiscal 2006. The Department continues to operate an e-mail based City Council tracking and reporting system. In conclusion, the Department of Streets will continue to work diligently in the delivery of services to our citizens and neighborhoods and to improve the quality of life in our city. Therefore, we request your favorable consideration of this 1866 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET budget request. I'm available to answer any questions you may have at this time.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. On -7 of your budget detail, it shows that you were budgeted for 2,195 general fund positions for FY '03 and that you will have only 2,043 in FY '04. This represents a reduction of 152 positions. Would you please explain why you would need fewer personnel? We're talking about 152 positions. And just where are they in the Streets Department?

Ms. Tolson

We will have some staffing changes in the Department throughout. They're occurring in all of our divisions. A majority of those is a result of our DROP program. There are no 19 layoffs or anything as that --

Council President Verna

How many are in the DROP program?

Ms. Tolson

52 are DROP positions.

Council President Verna

So you would be able to replace half of the 52?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. 1867 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

How about the other hundred?

Ms. Tolson

They're all occurring through attrition. They're all occurring through attrition to allow for the two and a half percent reduction.

Council President Verna

Allowing what? I'm sorry.

Ms. Tolson

The reductions, the two and a half percent reductions, as well as I think there's eight positions that are going to our 3-1-1 system.

Council President Verna

But the positions are not presently filled, are they?

Ms. Tolson

Some of them are not, no. 17

Council President Verna

How many of the hundred are not filled?

Ms. Tolson

If you give me one moment, Councilwoman, I will try to get that together.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Tolson

If I could just clarify a little bit, Council President. Our filled positions were 2,047. So we had a number of non-filled positions. 1868 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

But you were budgeted for 2,195.

Ms. Tolson

Right. That's correct. However, there's a natural absence of some positions because of our turnover. So we will always have at some point some level of positions not being filled. So our increment run showed as being filled --

Council President Verna

So we're not going to fill those positions?

Ms. Tolson

That's true. That's correct. We will have 2,043.

Council President Verna

Well, you must have a magic wand that we're not too familiar with, because on Page -- you're not only doing away with 152 positions, on -7 of the detail, what you're also doing is reducing your overtime by $488,769. Could you please explain how you're going to be able to do this?

Ms. Tolson

One of the things that we're working on within our sanitation group is a major initiative that provides an incentive to employees to achieve a higher level of productivity during normal straight time, during the eight hours of work time, versus on overtime, and we project 1869 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET some fair amount of savings through that program.

Council President Verna

Tell me how that program will work. How realistic is it?

Ms. Tolson

Sure. I think there's a real ability to do this. We've discussed this with our labor organization and we're discussing it now with our employees. We're going to be rolling out this program very, very shortly.

Council President Verna

Tell us how the program is going to work.

Ms. Tolson

The program will work such that the crews have an expectation right now on their performance and productivity.

Council President Verna

Excuse me. I'm really being distracted. I can't hear a word you're saying. (Pause.)

Council President Verna

Please proceed.

Ms. Tolson

Crews will be encouraged to achieve a higher level of productivity, and they will do this by having their routes expanded. Now, we understand that all crews will not be able to do that because the expectations are 1870 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET quite onerous. However, for the crews that can achieve it, it's a benefit to the crew, as well as to the City.

Council President Verna

How does it benefit them?

Ms. Tolson

It benefits the crew because there will be an incentive of $15 per person to achieve a higher tonnage, higher productivity on straight time versus doing the overtime.

Council President Verna

Is that per day?

Ms. Tolson

Per day that the tonnage expectation is achieved.

Council President Verna

And if they all did that and it was accomplished, you're telling me that that is how we can have the saving of $488,000?

Ms. Tolson

No. The entire savings is not attributed to that. That's a significant portion of it. The other portions -- there's approximately 100,000 from the Surveys Division, as well as our Highways Division.

Council President Verna

Explain, please. How are we doing that? 1871 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

We expect to achieve some efficiencies through our resurfacing program and to achieve approximately $200,000 worth of overtime savings there, as well as probably our expectation that our winter will be a little better through the next year.

Council President Verna

Can you tell us how we're doing on recycling? I still would like to know where the magic wand is. They'll have to come back and show us at a later date. 152 less positions and we're cutting overtime by $488,000. I don't know how we do it.

Ms. Tolson

With regard to recycling, we're doing quite well. Our tonnage figures are up dramatically, approximately percent. We were 17 able to have a service change where we moved from 18 every-other-week collection the day before trash to 19 the same day as trash, which was viewed as a major 20 service improvement by our customers. 21 We are in the second year of an 22 education and marketing campaign, which includes 23 hard literature, brochures and the like, community 24 meetings, as well as radio ads and television ads, 25 which are being quite popular and working quite 1872 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET well. Additionally, I'd like to say that we are doing quite well revenue-wise. This year we expect to achieve revenues of as high as 1 million -- I'm sorry; $850,000. Not paying, but receiving revenues of $850,000.

Council President Verna

Very well. Thank you. The Chair recognizes is Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, first of all, great job on all the terrible conditions that you and your staff have had to endure in the last few weeks. It's amazing that we're where we are. But I'm pleased to see that highlighted in your remarks today are improvements in the street opening permit process. And we were discussing this earlier today with Licenses & Inspection, and we talk about the pothole issue throughout the area that has been getting so much publicity. Being aware of some of these locations, these aren't just potholes, and what I want to 1873 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET address and maybe close the loop here is that you mention that many of the problems that we're going to face in the future are due to these penetrations that have occurred by utilities, our own Water Department, PGW, electric, cable utilities, you name it, plumbers, and I'm concerned that we don't manage the entire process as well as I would like it to see. Because, again, you use an example -- and I think I spoke to someone -- correct me if I'm not using the proper terminology -- your right-of-way unit that has their eyes on this project that's going on right up the street here, 16th and Arch, 17th and Arch, when you're heading north on the numbered streets. Maybe it's 18th, 19th. I'm not sure right at the moment. But when you get to that construction site location, it looks like you're driving -- you're like off the road. You need a sport utility vehicle to negotiate that particular intersection. Why we allow these contractors to, in my opinion, cut costs and not do what they're supposed to do amazes me. And in the same breath, when a contractor digs a street and doesn't restore it according to a specification, I'd like to know what 1874 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we do to assure that when the contractor that works for the Water Department, the contractor that works for PECO, when they restore a ditch, it's to our specification. The reason why I believe that is when driving throughout the City, I'm not seeing just potholes; I'm seeing past excavations failing to the point where an entire lane of traffic has a hole across it because it wasn't repaired properly or, even worse, after an incident where there might be a water leak, that the crew at the scene leaves, just shoveling back in the hole the dirt that was removed and the broken asphalt, and that's the temporary repair. You get rain. A few hours later the rain washes that hole out and you have a depression that's got, where they cut it with a pneumatic camera, that's got a sharp edge to it now. You come down the street with your three-week-old vehicle, you hit that, and these alloy wheels just don't have the ability to withstand what an old steel wheel used to do and you have major suspension damage and an expensive bill. I believe that we could lessen this 1875 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET criticism that we're getting. And we're both talking to the same media right now about the conditions of our street. I think a majority of these incidents that we're seeing right now are not just that little common pothole, that common little pothole that's a foot in diameter, it slopes off slowly and you can kind of get out of it slowly. But when you run across a ditch that's failed that was cut out by a contractor and you hit that as you come out of that ditch, your vehicle is damaged. What I would like to know and also make sure it's included in any proposal is that we really manage how our roadways are fixed. Because if they can get away with putting two inches of asphalt instead of four -- I don't even know what the number is. I'm just throwing numbers out there -- or it's not compacted properly when it's repaired and two years later, we all drive through the City and these dips that we see, you know, they're nicely black-topped, but does one of these through the intersection, I'm convinced that it's because these repairs are not done correctly.

Councilman Rizzo

And we're probably paying for them or the utilities are paying for them 1876 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to have them done correctly. And if they're not being -- if there's no inspection or there's no 4 threat of someone watching what they do or how they do it, we're going to have these conditions that exist. Like a perfect example is how we let a contractor get away with what happens on Arch Street. When you try to get through that intersection, honestly, you need one of those Hummer vehicles that they have at the airport to get through there. It amazes me that we allow that to exist. And I know that it gets old and the people that are responsible for it are just beating -- you know, they just can't get any cooperation. I know that when I inquired about that six months ago, that for a couple weeks it looked better and then it got bad again. And I haven't been up there recently, but that's just more so an example of what I'm trying to express to you today. But I would hope that when you establish this new practice that you're going to institute on openings of our streets, that we insist that they be repaired properly and you have some way to manage 1877 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that to make sure that we're getting the repair that we deserve so two winters from now, three winters from now that we don't have another bad situation to deal with. Sorry I took so long with that statement, but I just wanted to try to get it all out there.

Ms. Tolson

I thank you for that support. I agree with you.

Councilman Rizzo

Do we have a process where we inspect their work?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. There is an inspection process, but there's also another thing at play that might not quite be as obvious. Now being the season for potholes, and we often talk about potholes flaring up, those are the unplanned, we don't know the location for those issues, and they are the small irregular pocks in our street, usually just a couple inches deep, not very problematic in terms of the repair. It's a surface problem; you can repair it on the surface. The other thing that I think your insight is bringing to the table is the ditches, which could be done by a plumber, could be done by a 1878 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET utility company or the like. Sometimes very, very deep, several feet deep. Usually cut lines, which is how you might identify it as being a utility cut versus a pothole. Those pose a different type problem in their repair, particularly in, say, the month of March. Some of those ditches are from work that may have happened a couple of months ago. They require -- because they are deep into the surface of the street, they are well below the surface of the street, they require filling, as well as concrete topping and then the asphalt repair on the top to make it a permanent repair. Concrete not being able to be poured during harsh weather is very challenging for us. So right now we're living with a lot of temporary repairs and probably a lot more than we want to have as a reasonable amount. That is further thwarted by the snow that we've had in the plowing operation, which then further challenges situation, which gives us an all-around challenge in terms of street conditions. So we have that compounding, making situations very complex. 1879 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET But you're absolutely right. In terms of the initial issue and having the inspections done, we certainly will be working with L&I in a different way than we have worked with them in the past to make sure that the inspectors are ensuring that the fill-ins are done properly. To be properly done, that means topping with asphalt. It's not just throwing some dirt and stone in there or some dirt and rocks. There's a proper way of doing that. It's in the Plumber's Code. We met with the Plumbers Association about six months ago and this is one of the topics that we talked about. And we probably will have ongoing discussions with them to help educate their membership about the proper way. And, further, we're probably going to be a lot more diligent about ensuring that plumbers and individual contractors are held more individually liable for the conditions that they leave the streets in. So that there's not fall-back on the streets in terms of responsibility and instead it will fall back on the entity that created the cut.

Councilman Rizzo

You know, it's interesting. We had L&I here a few hours ago and 1880 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET L&I indicated that their only involvement in this entire process is that they license the plumber to say to you that they're okay to do business in the City of Philadelphia. And I asked the same question, did L&I have any responsibility in this entire process, and they indicated no. 8 You know, a perfect example is something that before you got here occurred. There was a plumber that did work up in Chestnut Hill on Germantown Avenue. And I believe Estelle Richman is working right now on trying to restore Germantown Avenue, historic district, beautiful Belgium blocks or cobble stones. Somebody has to some day explain to me -- maybe some day I'll ask Larry Roy to explain the difference between a Belgium block and a cobble stone. I guess it's the size. I don't know. But there was a leak up there on Germantown Avenue and a plumber came in and dug up the street, and now when you drive down Germantown Avenue just south of Rex, there's a big concrete pour where the plumber never restored the Belgium. They're probably in his backyard now as a patio. I'm just kidding, for the record anyway. But it's distressing to see all the good 1881 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET work that you, the Streets Department and the employees of the City do to try to make our town look very, very beautiful and then a contractor come in to dig up the street and not restore it to the specification that it was before. I see Dick Roy grinning. You're never guilty of any of that stuff, not restoring the street entirely. So I would just hope that we can coordinate this. And, again, you mentioned about those repairs, those conditions that are developing now. I'm convinced that if they were done properly three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, we wouldn't be dealing with these issues today, many of those plumber cut-outs and contractor cut-outs that are failing today. I'm convinced that they weren't done properly or they wouldn't have failed. There's always that case where they do. But I would appreciate it if we can really get there and track it. This is the third year we've been discussing this issue. Everybody says we're going to make it better, and it doesn't get better, but I hope you do. The last thing I wanted to mention is 1882 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that the lighting on Kelly Drive I think is such an improvement and it just is so nice to see the lights on in the evening hours on Kelly Drive, and moving them to the river side of the roadway is really -- it's wonderful. It's safer because of that lighting and they're dependable. So the street lighting people should be complemented for pulling off, I think, a great, great effort there.

Ms. Tolson

On behalf of the surveys bureau, the street lighting group, I say thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

Great. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Thank you, Commissioner and Streets Department. Maybe you can answer me later. In fact, I would have called you, but this issue came up, so I thought I'd ask you since I knew I'd see you 1883 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET today. As you know, throughout our district, we've worked with the utilization of volunteer service districts to reduce crime along our corridors, and we recognize the importance of safe streets wholeheartedly supported, our town watch, special service district safety ambassadors. To this end, we're currently working with the University City district to create a lighting master plan to erect additional pedestrian lighting on active strips along Baltimore Avenue, Spruce Street, Lancaster Avenue, Market Street, Chestnut, Walnut Street and 52nd Street. Here's my question: We have currently identified private funders who will purchase poles and the UCD will manage and design the installation of all the fixtures. Would it be possible for the City to connect the lighting to the City's power grid and maintain and assume the responsibility of maintenance if we can get the rest done, donated? Can you let me know?

Ms. Tolson

I surely will be glad to look at the details on that.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, and 1884 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET thanks again for your help.

Ms. Tolson

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. Good afternoon.

Ms. Tolson

Good afternoon.

Councilwoman Tasco

First, I'd like to thank you for all the hard work you do in your department and thank you for being responsive to our requests. I don't have a lot of questions; just a couple. Just a reminder to you that through the, I guess, community development block grant money of the NTI, we were able to secure money for retaining walls. We do have a couple that we have been working with your Department on, and we need to have some understanding about how fast that process is going to move along. I think there has to be a community meeting, and I'd like to know when that project is going to take place. 1885 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

Councilwoman, I believe that we've had possibly one community meeting with your group, but any more that we need to schedule, we would gladly schedule. We have been working on this issue and we would like to try to see it move ahead fairly quickly. So we can talk with you about any additional meetings that need to be scheduled.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, okay. I think the letters are supposed to be sent to each of the homeowners.

Ms. Tolson

Yes. That's right.

Councilwoman Tasco

So I'd just like to know where we are, if you could give me a status report on that.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. And, also, we're having trouble, as you have heard all the years you worked in the Streets Department, about driveways. A lot of the driveways in my district are also used by the trash trucks. So the constituents believe that that contributes to the destruction of the driveways. We had a talk with the Mayor before when he was president of City Council about coming up 1886 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET with some way to address the issue of driveways, and I guess we'll be talking about this forever. But we find that homeowners don't mind paying for the repair of the driveway. What they need is a mechanism to ensure that everyone pays. So if you can put that on your calendar or your things-to-do schedule, maybe you could follow up with the Mayor on -- because he did call a meeting of all of the departments, and I guess it got lost in the election. But there has to be some way that we deal with these driveways. Some of them are in terrible condition, contributes to blight in stable neighborhoods. And if the homeowners pay, you know, they can only get -- they need an enforcer. And if the City can find some way it can intervene in the process, not necessarily pay, but set up a process whereby everybody pays the cost of doing the driveway, the fair share of it.

Ms. Tolson

I understand.

Councilwoman Tasco

Why do we need PennDOT's approval for lights and stop signs?

Ms. Tolson

PennDOT provides guidelines for all of the counties, municipalities in the state. They are safety guidelines that they have 1887 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET set that also helps with us in terms of our getting federal funding for some of our work that is past through PennDOT. Following those guidelines is supportive of getting that federal assistance. Not following the guidelines means the lack of federal assistance.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, do you all have any input in the guidelines, establishing the guidelines?

Ms. Tolson

Maybe we will.

Councilwoman Tasco

I mean, I don't know if they talked to people who live in Philadelphia. Our situation may be different here than in some other parts of the state which might be more rural than in Philadelphia. We have an intersection at Rising Sun and Adams Avenue that took us years to get PennDOT to -- it was their job to reconstruct it, because there's a bottleneck of traffic there.

Councilwoman Tasco

Now we need some turning green lights, and we're told by your department that it doesn't meet PennDOT criteria. But as anyone going to Rising Sun and Adams Avenue 1888 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET knows, they can sit there for to minutes trying to get through that intersection. And why we can't find a way to provide -- because you state in your testimony that you try to find a -- make travel easier and safer.

Councilwoman Tasco

And certainly 9 addressing that issue at Rising Sun and Adams Avenue 10 would make it safer. You have the Hill Creek 11 development there. You have Rising Sun Plaza. You 12 have another intersection with a business. There's 13 a lot of activity going on. You have Cardone 14 Industries there, which we've been trying to work 15 with on their parking situation. 16 So there's a lot of stuff going on at 17 that corner that PennDOT may not know about. And I 18 think we have responsibility to fight for what we 19 believe is the right thing and press for them to 20 give the okay to put the light there.

Ms. Tolson

We can follow up with that, Councilwoman, and try to see if we can add a different perspective to what PennDOT has presently given us.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, I noticed 1889 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Andy Warren was reappointed by Governor Rendell.

Councilwoman Tasco

Maybe his philosophy may change a little bit. But I would like help on that.

Councilwoman Tasco

We do need the turn signals there. It's very important. We've been dealing with this issue maybe close to five to six years, that intersection. And we do have the Tacony Creek and the Lawncrest Civic Association. All those groups are very much interested and have been instrumental in pushing to take care of that traffic bottleneck there.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Ms. Tolson

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Is Councilman Ortiz in the room?

Councilwoman Tasco

Oh, I have another question.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

The other day I 1890 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET asked on the side about what is the plan for paving the streets in the Logan area.

Ms. Tolson

I hope to have for you within the week our resurfacing plan for -- I'm sorry; within two to three weeks our resurfacing plan for next year. We hoped to have it for today's hearing, but I didn't have -- given our snow, we were a little behind that. I will also answer for you the question with regard to Logan specifically within this week.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. The other question I had -- not question, but a statement. Would you all please have the sidewalks cleared from snow on City Hall on the northwest side? We can't cross. When we cross the street, we can't get on the sidewalk, and then we have to step over a chain-link fence to get access to City Hall. They just moved the snow back to clear the entryway for the cars and then they put a fence, a chain-link fence up. So we can't get across. You have to step over there. The rest of the sidewalk is full of snow. Now it's ice. It's very dangerous. And we do park across the street in front of the MSB building. It's difficult getting 1891 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET into --

Ms. Tolson

It's ice on the sidewalk? Okay.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

First of all, I would like to permit Councilman Rizzo to intervene for a moment to ask a question that Councilman Clarke wanted to have asked. But then I would want the opportunity to speak.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Councilman Cohen for that yield. Councilman Clarke asked me -- and I have to leave the chamber for a few minutes and I didn't want to miss the opportunity to ask you this question. It happens to do with street closure permits. The Councilman would like to know what is the process in place to notify Council members of potential street closures. An example is one in his district where a closure request for partially shutting down an operating lane for seven months was authorized, with no notification to the Council 1892 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET member that that was going to occur. And I think you can understand how that would be a concern of a district councilperson and an at-large member myself. So the question is, we really need to make sure that these notifications occur to the district councilperson if you plan to shut down or issue a permit to close a roadway.

Ms. Tolson

The answer is yes. We do have a process in place now.

Councilman Rizzo

For the record.

Ms. Tolson

And pursuant to the problem that you described or the situation that you described, we now have a process that before the permit is approved, that there's contact made with the Council to make sure that they are comfortable with an approval.

Councilman Rizzo

Great. Just a second. I just want to see if that's satisfactory. That's satisfactory. Thank you, Commissioner.

Councilman Cohen

Commissioner, following up on Councilwoman Tasco's request for a street sign or lights, York Road and Champlost, the 1893 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people there have been crying for a traffic signal for a number of years, ever since the Champlost business development occurred at Broad and Champlost. I visited that stop to follow up on citizen complaints a number of times. It's always jam-packed. Crossing that street, either Champlost or York Road, is a very complicated job. There are many senior citizens that slowed down the process. What can we do? I'm told that the people who make the report may be acting as PennDOT employees or as agents of PennDOT, but they're City employees. Do we have any control over them or do they decide -- do they become state employees and, therefore, their decisions are the same as the decision of PennDOT? I'm told that PennDOT never intervenes, never makes a study itself, but has transmitted that function over to the City.

Ms. Tolson

We do a number of studies in any given month, any given year for locations throughout the City. I'm not really familiar with what you're talking about in terms of city employees becoming state employees. I can certainly find out if you're talking about some contract investigator 1894 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET or auditor that may be investigating the work that we do. But other than that, I'm not really familiar with the situation that you're describing, but I'd be happy to look into it.

Councilman Cohen

Would you do that and would you notify the people involved, those who make the studies, that if they're acting for PennDOT and they're making the decisions, I'm going to be introducing an ordinance to provide during the time they do the PennDOT work, they get paid by PennDOT and the City not pay them. Because I don't think they're working for the city. And the findings were inevitably they find automatically that the traffic study does not warrant the placement of a stop sign or the placement of a traffic signal. And I think you have people making those decisions that work against the interest of the City, and I don't see any reason why the City should pay them. And this is a case very much like the one that Councilwoman Tasco has referred to and cries out for correction. So would you be good enough to form a chair within the next week, say, of your decision on that --

Ms. Tolson

Yes, sir. 1895 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Cohen

-- traffic installation? And what's the latest on the paving of Ogontz Avenue?

Ms. Tolson

Ogontz Avenue?

Councilman Cohen

From Chelten Avenue south to Belfield where Ogontz Avenue begins.

Ms. Tolson

That project is currently in the bidding process. We expect to have a bid date March 18th, with anticipated construction beginning in May of this year. That will be --

Councilman Cohen

Beginning when? This year?

Ms. Tolson

May. May of this year. It's probably a $7 million project.

Councilman Cohen

All right. We hope that those dates are maintained, because this has been ongoing for three or four years. We're told that dates are set and then something seems to happen. And it's a matter that Councilwoman Miller and my office are very much concerned with, and I think Councilwoman Tasco is also very concerned about that. Now, in the Streets Department, do you 1896 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET issue contracts to author companies to do certain work that you cannot do?

Ms. Tolson

Yes, sir.

Councilman Cohen

What is the amount of money involved in those contracts? Say, in fiscal 2002, what did the amount of money add up to?

Ms. Tolson

Our paving work is primarily done out of our capital budget. I don't have that amount with me right now.

Councilman Cohen

How about the operating budget?

Ms. Tolson

We use City forces out of the operating budget.

Councilman Cohen

I'm sorry. I did not get that.

Ms. Tolson

We use City forces out of the operating budget.

Councilman Cohen

Did you say you were getting the answer?

Ms. Tolson

No, no. We use City forces.

Councilman Cohen

Use City forces?

Ms. Tolson

Right, out of our operating budget. We hire -- 1897 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Cohen

So your operating budget, you have no money spent for contract, for outside contractors; is that right?

Ms. Tolson

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, sir. Would you repeat that last part?

Councilman Cohen

Is your testimony that under your operating budget, the Streets Department spends no money in the form of payments to outside contractors?

Ms. Tolson

Right. We do our resurfacing. The majority is done out of the capital budget, and that's approximately $12 million. Out of our operating budget, we do that with our own forces.

Councilman Cohen

Now, of that 12 million, how many contracts involved in year 2002?

Ms. Tolson

I'll have to get that number for you. I don't know the exact number of contracts, sir.

Councilman Cohen

Well, because what I'm interested in and the final question on that is going to be, what's the percentage of contracts of that $12 million that goes to minority groups, including women? 1898 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

I will get that information for you. I did not bring my capital budget notes with me, but I can get that information for you.

Councilman Cohen

Could you get that relatively promptly?

Councilman Cohen

Because that's been a course of serious discussion in a number of departments. Now, with respect to management, I get increasing complaints that there's a small number of sanitation operators who are still tossing trash around. Maybe they've worked too long hours, I don't know, but a lot of trash is left on the streets and the streets are left in dirty form. I don't know if they've been overworked or what. But I think it's very important for the Department to manage and maintain the excellent reputation Philadelphia has for fine workers, because I believe the overwhelming number of sanitation workers do a great job. But I think that management has to be willing to manage and not depend on labor organizations to do the management jobs, because labor organizations are just not 1899 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET suited for that purpose. The officials have to get re-elected. And they're like politicians, they don't like to say to voters who may pass upon their continuing in office, they don't like to have to complain about it. But I just think it very important. And in many ways, the Department does a great job, but I'd like to urge that let's remove all the ability of the people to complain about how the street looks after the trash has been collected. The street ought to look clean. And management ought to accept its responsibility for inspecting the work and for taking the necessary administrative action if it's necessary. Would you agree with that general statement?

Ms. Tolson

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Councilman Cohen

All right. Good. And so next time we get a complaint, you'll hear from me.

Councilman Cohen

Final question is recycling. I understand that recycling is doing better in the sense that from an economic point of 1900 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET view, it actually, in fact, is saving money over the use of landfills, considering all the costs. And I understand that the statistics show in a recent quarter that that was the fact. Can you verify or dispute that or give us any information? Because the answer is obvious, if what I said was true, while it's taken us a while to get there, it seems to me that that kind of information ought to evoke a very positive response and we ought to increase vastly the amount of resources that go into recycling.

Ms. Tolson

Surely. I can certainly say that we have some guarded excitement that we're trying to evaluate right now. Our market position with payments being received for the last -- over the last year make recycling very, very positive in terms of revenue versus an expense, in terms of what we pay out versus receiving monies. We're presently receiving revenue. We're expecting to receive this year approximately $850,000, where in years past, we may have paid for the tonnage that we collected. We're very hopeful that this arrangement can continue. Part of it is based upon market 1901 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET conditions; part of it is based upon contracts that have been negotiated by our recycling group that has done an excellent job in kind of ferreting out opportunities for the City to make recycling as positive as it can be.

Councilman Cohen

So you agree that the results indicate a real incentive for increased activity in recycling?

Ms. Tolson

That's correct.

Councilman Cohen

All right. Very good. Then we'll look forward to continued improvement at a level of recycling that takes place in the City. Incidentally, does the Department have any records as to the various proposals at the time we were talking about a trash-to-steam plant in South Philadelphia?

Ms. Tolson

What type of records are you suggesting?

Councilman Cohen

Do you have the records?

Ms. Tolson

Which type of records?

Councilman Cohen

Because my study indicates that by not building a trash-to-steam 1902 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET plant in South Philadelphia, the City is going to save, over the life of the proposed Ogden market contract, the amount of 1 billion and a half. It's a billion and a half dollars over the life of that contract, and I would like to know, can you verify or disagree or change that figure? Who in your department would have that information?

Ms. Tolson

I can certainly go back and try to ferret through some of our files and see if there's anything that can support what you're saying.

Councilman Cohen

Would you do that? Because I'm looking for verification or refutation of articles that have appeared in the Wall Street Journal indicating that the trash-to-steam developments have been economically terrible failures to cities that have used them, that they have resulted in prices for disposal three times, and more in some cases, what the cost is where people have not been -- municipalities have not gone forward with trash to steam. So I will appreciate whatever information you have with respect to that. Okay. Thank you, Madam President. 1903 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Tolson

Thank you, sir.

Council President Verna

You're welcome, sir. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, good afternoon.

Ms. Tolson

Good afternoon.

Councilman Nutter

Let me try to go through a number of items somewhat quickly. The street cleaning program that's operating in a variety of neighborhoods throughout the City, you'll find it somewhat surprising that I do receive from time to time inquiries from constituents who are interested, or so they think they're interested, in participating in the street cleaning program. And I know, again, in many instances we start these programs to see how they're functioning, get some of the bugs out and logistical issues, and I know that there have been some over time. But can you tell me if there is any thought at the moment to expanding the street cleaning program? I'm also aware that the program has been 1904 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET halted in some parts of the City. So I'm wondering whether there might be opportunities to expand it just based on the fact that it's not necessarily serving the same areas where the program started.

Ms. Tolson

There's likely some limited opportunity for expansion.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. So if I had a street or a block that was expressing that interest and maybe hopefully they're near another street that's already getting the service, there might be an opportunity to move a couple things around?

Ms. Tolson

Based upon location and how we set it up, yes.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Two other components to that. What is your sense of how well we've worked out the -- I mean, street cleaning only works if people move their cars, and the incentive has been to post the signage naturally telling people. We do it, is it once a week, once every two weeks?

Ms. Tolson

Through most of the program area, it is once a week.

Councilman Nutter

Once a week. So people know that on one side of the street, once a 1905 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET week for a limited amount of time, usually 9:00 to 11:00, 9:00 to 12:00, something like that, they have to move their car either across the street or somewhere else off of their side of the street, and then the other side of the street usually gets it the next day. Along with that, there is the coordination with generally the Parking Authority where we utilize their services to help to encourage people to move their vehicles. Naturally one of the complaints from time to time has been that the Parking Authority is out aggressively doing their job, but subsequently because generally equipment failure results in the street not actually being done because the Authority people I think are a couple blocks ahead and don't necessarily get the word that you're never going to get to such-and-such a block because the equipment broke down two blocks away. In the meantime, the constituents have received a ticket and not received a street cleaning. How are we dealing with that particular issue?

Ms. Tolson

We have been challenged by 1906 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that situation. What we try to instill and encourage in the area where we're working the program is that we want people to move their cars so the street can get cleaned, not because they're going to get a ticket. So the vehicles should move, not because they see a ticket writer coming along. There have been occasions where we've had to work with the Parking Authority to address a problem when we have tickets written when our vehicle could not get through. But by and large, tickets that are written within the time period where the cleaner should come through have been valid tickets.

Councilman Nutter

Right. But in the case where they don't make it and even if -- I mean --

Ms. Tolson

There have been occasions when that has had to be mediated.

Councilman Nutter

Right. And should those tickets then be invalidated?

Ms. Tolson

I can't say on a wholesale level that that has happened, but there has been occasion when that has happened.

Councilman Nutter

I'm not sure if I 1907 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET made you aware. There was one situation where the street cleaners actually came through the block earlier than normal. I had a constituent move her car just because she knew it was street cleaning day. She moved her car early. The street cleaners came through early. She then reparked her car because her street had been done and reparked it during the prohibited time period and subsequently received a ticket, even though the street cleaning had actually already happened and she had complied with the situation. So, I mean, there are all these little unusual --

Councilman Nutter

-- situations that happen out there from time to time. I'll get back to you with a couple streets that have indicated an interest in possibly participating in the program.

Councilman Nutter

I think Councilman Cohen asked the question with regard to recycling, and I don't know whether this is kind of an annual part of our budget process, but it seems to happen one or two times a year. All of the sudden, we 1908 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET start receiving all of these letters from advocates in the recycling community, and they seem to happen with some level of coordination, either encouraging full city-wide weekly pickup or panicked that the City is about to cut or reduce the recycling program. Can you give us a sense of -- I mean, are we upgrading the program, keeping it the same or cutting back?

Ms. Tolson

We've actually improved the program. We have a multi-year, multi million dollar education and marketing campaign that is going on. Our service has improved from the day before trash to same day as trash.

Councilman Nutter

Which was a smart idea.

Ms. Tolson

Yes. We expanded to weekly collections. The northwest section of the City is a test and also part of Center City. So we are making great inroads. We're trying to be innovative in what we do, trying to provide certainly services not decrease at all.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Let's talk about -- 1909 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

I'm sorry.

Councilman Nutter

Did you want to add to that?

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Let's talk about leaf collection and the leaf collection schedule. In many parts of the district that I represent, as you well know, there are a significant number of trees, and what normally happens is, we will get the notice about the leaf collection cycle at times upward of a week after the schedule indicates that the cycle is about to happen. So, I mean, one, to the extent that we can get those schedules at an earlier point in time, because naturally we then do mailings to a variety of people to let them know what's going on. Getting the schedules a little earlier would be helpful. Secondly, I've noticed in recent years, for whatever reason, this may be climate driven or how much rain we get or we don't get, but there seems to be kind of two waves of the leaf dropping. First, the one is normally timed to coincide with when you send the notices out. So I know the 1910 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Department knows when it's about that time of year. You do all of that, which is fine, but then a few weeks later, there seems, at least in some parts of the district that I represent, a second dropping of leaves, at which point the Department may be starting to move into another phase of operations, and constituents, I think rightly so, assume that there will be another round of leaf collection and push them out into the street or possibly bag them, depending on where things are. That second pickup generally doesn't happen. And I know this year at least -- and maybe we got our snow a little early -- there were a number of situations where I think the first snowstorm we got this year, which actually I think was in December --

Ms. Tolson

No. It was in November.

Councilman Nutter

November. Snow a little early and continuing. That ended up being covered by that snowstorm. And then leaf collection was over, and then we were told basically to tell people that they should bag them. Well, very few people are going to go out in the street and bag leaves that have now been sitting out there for 1911 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET about a month, including the rain and the snow on top of them. So I raise this in the context of if there is a way to ensure that there will be somewhat of an end-of-the-year-mop-up of the leaf collection situation where you pretty much know that you've gotten everything that you can get, that would be very, very helpful. Lastly, there are a number of areas in the district that are just not covered at all and so we often get complaints from people thinking that they've somehow dropped out of the City of Philadelphia and are being denied some level of service. I'd be glad to work with you on where those areas are to make sure that there's as much coverage as possible.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. I received a letter recently indicating that there was a reorganization in the Traffic Engineering Unit or a reduction in the number of people in the Traffic Engineering Unit. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. We have revised 1912 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Traffic Engineering so that instead of having five districts, there are four. I think that's the reorganization that you're talking about.

Councilman Nutter

Yes. And can you tell us, from your perspective, what you think there will be in terms of impact on service or response based on that reorganization?

Ms. Tolson

We will certainly maintain our responsiveness. In terms of the time line for doing our traffic studies, it may increase slightly. I think that right now we're seeing studies done anywhere from six to nine weeks. That may increase by a couple weeks. Easier ones are done in six to nine weeks.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. But you think you'll pretty much be able to still respond to the volume of requests?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. We will have to, yes.

Councilman Nutter

All right. I received a request recently from the unit block of North Robinson Street in West Philadelphia raising the age-old issue of curb and sidewalk repair. And that naturally caused me to reread for about the hundredth time the section of the Philadelphia Code, 1913 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I believe it's 11-505(8). I do not have my code here with me this afternoon, but to paraphrase that particular section, it talks about whenever a street is being repaved or regraded, the Streets Department, if they determine that curb and sidewalk repair is necessary as a part of the general work that's being done, that the Department can, in fact, contract for a new sidewalk and the setting of curb. Can you tell me two things, one, what is the City's policy or position on the issue of curb and sidewalk restoration or reconstruction?

Ms. Tolson

Curb and sidewalks are the responsibility of the adjacent property owner. Inasmuch, the Streets Department has not done sidewalk repairs, reconstruction. However, when we have major reconstruction of a street, at times sidewalks are included in that, but that is a very limited amount of activity.

Councilman Nutter

Why would we have major reconstruction of an entire street? Under what circumstance --

Ms. Tolson

Street failure is that bad. Street failure is that bad.

Councilman Nutter

I'm still not 1914 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET hearing you.

Ms. Tolson

Street failure.

Councilman Nutter

Street failure?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. That we can't resurface, that it's now a major reconstruction job.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Can you tell me if that particular provision that I reference, and, again, I did not repeat it verbatim out of the Philadelphia Code, but that section, 11-500(8), can you tell me whether or not that provision of the Philadelphia Code has ever been utilized or if curb and sidewalk work has ever been done in conformance to that particular provision of the Philadelphia Code?

Ms. Tolson

I imagine that it's only happening in major reconstruction.

Councilman Nutter

But not as a result of a request because of a dangerous condition or that the curb and/or sidewalk has itself failed and presents imminent danger to not only the adjacent property owners, but other people using the street?

Ms. Tolson

I don't believe that we have done that in any recent times.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Why don't we 1915 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET go from that public infrastructure to, I know that Councilwoman Tasco raised the issue of retaining walls with you.

Councilman Nutter

You and I had a conversation the other day. I think we've -- and you may have talked with the Councilwoman on the record about a community meeting.

Councilman Nutter

We've since made arrangements for that. Can you give us a sense of the timetable on the start of this particular program?

Ms. Tolson

I think that we're looking at moving to bid on these few walls very shortly. I would say probably within four to six weeks.

Councilman Nutter

And at that point, can you give me a sense of when the actual work would start?

Ms. Tolson

Part will depend upon the response. I think that we would certainly be looking at work happening by summertime.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And in all of this public infrastructure, are you, or any other 1916 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET member of the Department, involved in the NTI project to undertake a thorough review of the public infrastructure questions of curb, sidewalks, alleys, driveways and retaining walls? Is the Streets Department involved in that review and the study that's to be conducted as a result of action taken by the Council during last year's hearings on NTI?

Ms. Tolson

Absolutely. Yes, sir. In fact, we're now in the inspection process for a number of retaining walls that have been identified as being problematic. We're probably 75 percent complete with that inspection process, which includes photographs and measurements. We will then be doing our evaluations and moving forward.

Councilman Nutter

I should have raised this issue with L&I, but they seemed to be having such a good time with us, that I was slightly distracted. We do have this one situation involving the -- and, again, I recognize that this is primarily an L&I issue, but because of the close working relationship not only between the departments, but the specific focus that Streets has taken with regard to the retaining walls, I would at 1917 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET least like to share it with you and then I'll share it with Commissioner McLaughlin as well. When a wall has been identified as having failed, whether it's a part of it, all of it, end of the block, middle of the block or whatever, because of the nature of these retaining walls and everyone is connected together, if you will, all of the abutting homeowners receive a violation notice. The retaining wall situation is, I believe, distinct from many other violations that a homeowner could receive under the Philadelphia Code. Just about every violation in the code usually pertains to that individual's home and conditions that they can, to some extent, control or have a contractor come out and provide a service and correct a violation notice and then they move on. In this situation, the entire block or all of the abutting properties receive a violation notice for something that may not be directly pertinent to their property, but they now get a violation notice because they are connected. The individual homeowner cannot fix the wall on their own. And a notice goes into the system, and for that person if they're trying to, 1918 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET for whatever reason, unfortunately for us, trying to sell their home, unless they're buying another house in Philadelphia, the system kicks out a notice saying that you have a violation against your house. You're then confronted with the situation with the potential buyer, as well as the real estate agent that you have a violation against your home, which you're basically unable to cure because the cure for that involves all of the rest of the homeowners on the street. I give you all of that background to say, I think we need, on behalf of people who find themselves in that situation, we need to find some classification or some designation or some explanation -- and I've raised this issue with the Law Department as well -- such that that individual homeowner, who is now in the worst of a Catch 22, they have a violation against their property, they can't fix it because they're tied in to everyone else and there's no logical explanation to the buyer because they need to fully disclose what the situation is, I'd like to ask if you and L&I and the Law Department and anyone else would work together on a program that, one, helps to ensure that people 1919 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are not getting a violation notice with which they either cannot comply or cannot explain, and potentially negatively affect either their ability to sell their home or affect the value of their particular property. If you get a downspout violation or a roof violation or a porch violation or a step violation, you can fix those. But if the violation for the retaining wall is feet down the driveway, 11 really attached to someone else's house, you can't 12 do anything about it. So you're literally stuck and 13 caught in a situation from which there's no relief. 14 But I think that if the departments work together, 15 and I'd be glad to work with you, we can provide some relief to people under that circumstance.

Ms. Tolson

We can do that.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Good afternoon, Commissioner.

Ms. Tolson

Good afternoon. 1920 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilwoman Brown

Congratulations to you, too.

Ms. Tolson

Thank you so much.

Councilwoman Brown

I'd like to pick up where my colleagues, Councilman Cohen and Councilman Nutter, left off. I too share an interest in recycling and what we're doing in the City and was thrilled to hear the favorable report that puts us in the black. And I would be remiss not to at least applaud the ground work and hard work of David Robinson. He on your staff and I, my office, have worked on a number of matters with the airport in particular. Of the individuals you mentioned in the DROP program, are any of those currently involved in the recycling efforts?

Councilwoman Brown

Are not. So is it fair to conclude that --

Ms. Tolson

Let me back up. Let me say something differently. There may be drivers or senior managers in the Streets Department -- and Sanitation that are involved in recycling. They are not on 1921 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Mr. Robinson's staff.

Councilwoman Brown

They are not what?

Ms. Tolson

They are not on his staff. He has a younger group of people.

Councilwoman Brown

So it's fair to conclude that the efforts and the success recycling has enjoyed may or can continue?

Ms. Tolson

Absolutely.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay, then. You mentioned in your testimony on that currently 380 City office buildings are actually practicing recycling. So that's 380 out of a total of what? How far along is the City across the board with regards to practicing recycling?

Councilwoman Brown

Okay, then. Well along. You should know as well that I actually sent letters to DHS and the airport expressing some concerns about recycling happening across the board and received a favorable response from both the leadership there, DHS commissioner, Alvin Martinez, and the airport director. We actually took a tour of the airport to see how and where it's being 1922 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET practiced. So they have some exciting plans underway to make it a universal practice there at the Philadelphia Airport. Testimony two years ago, three years ago, February 2000 when I first arrived at City Council, there was a lot of discussion around school traffic lights. There's no discussion of that in this year's testimony. Can you simply give us an update? Are we where we need to be or should be? What's still outstanding with regards to traffic lights and et cetera?

Ms. Tolson

We have about a total of 134. That's our expected service level through fiscal '04.

Councilwoman Brown

I could not hear your last statement.

Ms. Tolson

Through fiscal '04, approximately 134 will be in place.

Councilwoman Brown

And so is there a waiting list as such?

Ms. Tolson

Yes, there is a waiting list.

Councilwoman Brown

And that list has how many on it? 1923 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

I believe the list has approximately 12. It's between and 15, I 4 believe. 5

Councilwoman Brown

What is the method 6 you use for installation of new lights? Is it first 7 request, first attention or some other method that 8 you use? With the remaining 12 that you have, how 9 would they ultimately end up on a list? Available 10 dollars, or what? 11

Ms. Tolson

Available dollars plays a 12 part into it, as well as evaluation of the numbers of students that are impacted, what options the students have in terms of crossing the street, the volume of traffic on the streets next to the schools. You may have a street that has a very low volume versus, you know, a major thoroughfare. All those things which relate to the safety of pedestrian traffic. So there's an evaluation of the location.

Councilwoman Brown

Of the particular request. In some school areas, the traffic signal says whatever it says. 15 miles per hour; is that correct? 1924 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Ms. Tolson

That's correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Yet, you'll see a speed limit sign as well posted in some neighboring schools. Should that be a concern, when you have two differing speed limits in and around schools?

Ms. Tolson

If there's a location, Councilwoman, that you believe that there's a conflict in the schedule, please tell us that. We're not aware of any.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Ms. Tolson

Certainly there are reductions in speed limits during school hours and there may be another speed limit off hours. But if you think there's a direct conflict some place, we would like to know that.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. I will certainly put that in writing and pass it on to you. I'm always curious to know -- and I see that you mention in your testimony on partnerships that you have with community groups. Again, around the issue of recycling, might be there any partnerships with our public schools, either scattered or by cluster, for lack of a better word, in the City of Philadelphia? Any relationships at 1925 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET all with the schools?

Ms. Tolson

We have some significant outreach efforts going on with the schools, education efforts. We use the Schuylkill Environmental Center as a training ground for teachers and for students. As part of our education and marketing campaign, school-age children is a number our targets.

Councilwoman Brown

Is there --

Ms. Tolson

They're in our target communities.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Junior block captains, tell me about that.

Ms. Tolson

Yes. Junior block captains, we have a network of individuals who take responsibility for their communities, their individual block where they reside. In fact, we have a number of junior block captains. These are children under the age of 17 who take leadership for activities on their blocks. The leadership includes clean-ups, community clean-ups on the street, on lots with vacant homes. The leadership takes form in gathering of other young people to do work, as well 1926 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET as in many cases gathering up and doing work with adults on their block. This is a program that we started to encourage civic maturity.

Councilwoman Brown

Consciousness, right.

Ms. Tolson

Civic consciousness, participation. We believe that starting with school-age children is probably most important.

Councilwoman Brown

A good place to start.

Councilwoman Brown

So are there any relationships with area schools or is the program so new that that hasn't been realized yet?

Ms. Tolson

We are making outreach efforts to schools, and we're always open to schools that are willing to us have kind of go in and make some inroads. We do a large number of presentations to schools not only about PMBC and becoming a junior block captain, but also about our recycling program. We do a large number of assembly events, lots of education, lots of outreach.

Councilwoman Brown

And you said that's 1927 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET done in targeted schools?

Ms. Tolson

We're willing to go to any school.

Councilwoman Brown

So the principal simply has to make the request?

Ms. Tolson

Absolutely. We'd be more than glad to work with any school that has an interest. That makes it a lot easier for us as opposed to a cold call.

Councilwoman Brown

That's important to know. I believe that one just item of comment I'd like to make, and, that is, that my office appreciates the tracking system that a member of your team, I guess several members of your team, use. One in particular that has been helpful to my office, Laura Lewis. I think it's important to let commissioners know when they have team members who really go the extra mile and work in an extraordinary fashion. Contrary to what a lot of our taxpayers believe, we have City employees who don't go the extra mile, and it's important that we sort of neutralize that perception and acknowledge and salute those that we know do. 1928 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET So to Laura Lewis and Mr. Robinson, I say thank you very much. Thank you, Commissioner.

Ms. Tolson

Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that you answered some questions about recycling. I really want to go -- and excuse me if I'm redundant. But how does the budget compare from last year to this year?

Ms. Tolson

No change.

Councilman Ortiz

No change. But if there's no change, it means that -- to me, no change from year to year -- is it the same amount? Because if it's the same amount, the rate of inflation goes up.

Ms. Tolson

Well, I'm answering your question from the standpoint of are there any reductions that might impact the work that we do. 1929 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Ortiz

There's no change. Okay.

Ms. Tolson

We are not changing anything that we're doing. If anything, we're making it better in terms of our marketing and outreach program.

Councilman Ortiz

And given the nature of the weather we had, how much did recycling cost in comparison to trash removal for the last quarter, because of all the inclement weathers that we've had?

Ms. Tolson

Recycling is sensitive to the weather, and we understand that. Our trash we had suspended, as well as our recycling collection during the week of the blizzard. For recycling, that meant that one week of collection was foregone, and that week was then picked up in the subsequent collection week, which is this week. For trash, it was picked up the subsequent trash week. On trash, we wound up not doubling, but a number slightly less than that, in terms of our collection totals. We expect to have the same thing happen with our recycling quantities. 1930 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Ortiz

How are you in keeping with the blueprint, the recycling blueprint that was issued two years ago?

Ms. Tolson

We're still on target. We don't have a formal blueprint, I believe, that is out. However, in terms of what we're doing internally to manage according to the plan that was being developed by Mr. Robinson internal to the Department, we are on track with that.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, what are the plans in terms to improve the recycling during the next three years and expand the weekly curb-side pick-up?

Ms. Tolson

The expansion of the curb-side program is one that we certainly will constantly evaluate. Right now we are enjoying a very good period where our revenues are positive, our expense is positive for recycling commodities. We are being paid this year, we expect to the tune of approximately $850,000. Our markets are very good and our contracts are very good.

Councilman Ortiz

What is the time line?

Ms. Tolson

They're one-year contracts. 1931 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Ortiz

One-year contracts?

Councilman Ortiz

We go back to those things, one-year contracts. With whom are these contracts with?

Ms. Tolson

Blue Mountain.

Councilman Ortiz

Excuse me?

Ms. Tolson

Blue Mountain. It's a division of Smurfitt.

Councilman Ortiz

Division?

Ms. Tolson

Of Smurfitt Stone.

Councilman Ortiz

Are they from Philadelphia?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. Smurfitt Stone is not. Blue Mountain is located in Philadelphia. It has a processing facility right here.

Councilman Ortiz

Where is the parent company from?

Ms. Tolson

The parent company is in Chicago. The local office that manages us is in North Carolina.

Councilman Ortiz

Is there any subcontracting that they do with local contractors in terms of the duties that they have on the job 1932 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that they do?

Ms. Tolson

In fact, they employee Philadelphians.

Councilman Ortiz

Excuse me?

Ms. Tolson

They have a facility in the City.

Councilman Ortiz

They employ Philadelphians?

Councilman Ortiz

Do they contract out to anyone?

Ms. Tolson

I would assume so, for some of their work.

Councilman Ortiz

And do they have a minority set aside in terms of the contracts and so on?

Ms. Tolson

I can get you the exact information with their contract requirements.

Councilman Ortiz

Could you do that, please?

Councilman Ortiz

Okay. And the amount of the contract?

Ms. Tolson

Yes. 1933 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Ortiz

In the commercial building and the commercial recycling program, what are you doing in terms of those businesses that are non-compliant with the program?

Ms. Tolson

We have a group of enforcement officers, SWEEP officers, who enforce commercial regulations. Businesses are required to have --

Councilman Ortiz

How often do they go and visit?

Ms. Tolson

We only have a small force that handles commercial --

Councilman Ortiz

How big?

Ms. Tolson

We have approximately five officers who are involved in that process.

Councilman Ortiz

And the universe that they have to supervise?

Ms. Tolson

They're responsible for all the commercial establishments in the City.

Councilman Ortiz

Which is?

Ms. Tolson

However, let me just add, though, something I didn't make clear. Commercial establishments are also required to submit information to us with regard to their activity. So 1934 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we're getting information two different ways. We provide a great deal of support to our commercial establishments and we have a good relationship with a commercial recycling council that we have supported to help educate with regard to commercial recycling, as well as guide us in possible ways of getting --

Councilman Ortiz

Do they give citations to non-compliant --

Ms. Tolson

Absolutely.

Councilman Ortiz

Do you have data as to the citations that they have given? How many have they given in the last year?

Ms. Tolson

We have commercial recycling contacts and warnings. For this year we're estimating 8,400.

Councilman Ortiz

Excuse me?

Ms. Tolson

8,400. And for citations issued, 240.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you very much, Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes -- oh, Councilman 1935 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Cohen had his light on. Is there anyone else? Any other members of the Committee with questions or comments? Seeing none, thank you very much.

Ms. Tolson

Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Water Department will be next. Good afternoon, Commissioner. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Kishinchand

Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Kumar Kishinchand. I'm the water commissioner for the City of Philadelphia. I want to thank you for allowing us the opportunity to present our fiscal year 2004 operating budget for the Water Department. We submitted our written testimony, the form of testimony, so if you'd prefer, I can summarize mine and be brief.

Council President Verna

That would be wonderful. Very much appreciated.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you very much. 9 million for other water fund activities, such as the support for the Water Revenue Bureau, the debt service payment and other central agency support services that the Water Department receives. 2 million higher than the fiscal year 2003 appropriation, primarily because we are fully funding the costs associated with collective bargaining agreements for the employee salaries, some additional software and licenses for information systems and additional chemical costs. Also, we have met provision in assisting Water Revenue Bureau in installing a new billing system, as well as a customer information system, and we're also making provision for putting in place a new information system for sewer maintenance and inlet cleaning. On July of this year, we will put into place the third part of our three-part three rate increase that we had -- that has been approved, and 1937 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET at the same time, we will be finishing up with the reallocation of stormwater costs that were put in place two years ago, essentially properly allocating the cost between the homeowners or the residential customers and the commercial and industrial customers. 6 percent, or about 65 cents a month. And for senior citizens who are eligible for senior citizen discount, it will be only about one cent a month rate increase, which is essentially negligible and they will not be seeing that. For the commercial and industrial customers, the rate is going to go up in excess of 10 percent, and that's primarily because of the shift of the stormwater costs to that sector. You'll also note that we have made provision as a place holder for the study of our cost allocation and the rate study and remit enough provision over there in the event that we have to go forward with that. At this point, it is just a place holder. We have not conducted the study. It will be premature for me to even guess whether there 1938 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET would be a rate increase or not, although some of our current projections may show that in the five-year plan. Now I thought I'd tell you some good news also about our service to the rate bureaus. I want to show you that Philadelphia's drinking water is safer than it has ever been and has met every single federal and state regulation. Our wastewater, which we also treat before we put into the Delaware River, has met all of the requirements, federal and state requirements. You will also be proud to know that our Northeast Water Pollution Control Plant last year got a platinum award from Association of Metropolitan Sewerage Agency, and this is an award given to agencies that have five years of absolutely perfect compliance with federal and state regulations, five continuous, consecutive years. And so they got that award. And they matched what Southwest had done two years ago. So we are very proud of it. And Southeast Water Pollution Control Plant also got a gold award last year. While I'm on a roll on essentially the awards that we've been getting, you'll be glad to 1939 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET hear that the United States Environmental Protection Agency selected the Office of Watersheds as a charter or recipient of EPA's Clean Water Partner Award for the 21st Century. This program recognizes the extraordinary efforts beyond the regulatory requirements of the Clean Water Act that the local governments are putting in place now. EPA's Region III, which has its headquarters in Philadelphia, has also recognized Philadelphia by awarding it EPA's Source Water Protection Award recognizing the good stewardship of the region's water resources and drinking water supplies. In this same work, our water source protection has been recognized by American Water Works Association by selecting us as the national 2003 recipient of AWWA Source Water Protection Award.

Mr. Kishinchand

In my testimony, I have outlined our financial performance, as well as highlighted some of the projects that we are currently involved in. I want to mention that Philadelphia should be proud that it is providing this high level of service at the lowest cost in the region. 1940 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you for being patient and listening to me, and I'll be ready to answer any questions that you might have.

Council President Verna

Mister, we have the greatest respect for you and your staff, and we think you do a fabulous job and it's a pleasure to listen to you.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

However, on -29, one would think that you're talking about a possibility of a study for another increase?

Mr. Kishinchand

That's correct. Our three-year cycle will end at the end of June 30th of '04, at which point we start another cycle. We need to do a study to see if there is, in fact, a need for a rate increase. As you may recall back in 1993, we put in a three-year rate increase at that time and then subsequently I believe it was another five years before we put another rate increase, although there was a projection for it. So at this point, I cannot say for sure whether there would be a rate increase or not a rate increase, but we need to sort of do the study to see 1941 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET what the allocations, cost allocations are, and whether there is going to be additional revenue requirements.

Council President Verna

Is there a rate increase included in the five-year plan?

Mr. Kishinchand

The five-year plan does project a rate increase of approximately six percent in FY '05, I believe, fiscal year '05 and beyond. We've been looking at many of those numbers. Those numbers are coming down. The latest number that we were looking at was substantially lower than that. So it's right now a guess that we'll need it. This is far enough away that we can't project accurately whether in '04 or '05 there will be a rate increase, although our five-year plan does show that, yes.

Council President Verna

Councilman DiCicco, is your light on?

Councilman Dicicco

Yes.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you, Madam President. 1942 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Good afternoon.

Mr. Kishinchand

Good afternoon.

Councilman Dicicco

Commissioner, I have a question. On Saturday a week ago, right after the snowstorm, a lady, a neighbor friend of mine, she's about 79 years old, came to my house on a Saturday afternoon. I believe it was either Friday night the night before or earlier that Saturday morning the Water Department came out because she was seeing some water in her basement. They made an inspection and they determined that the water service was defected, broken, what-have-you, somewhere between Section 6 and 1 from the main, I guess, into the meter. So they shut the water off. We made some calls, got some help from your department. I appreciate that. My concern was this: And for all the years I've been doing these kinds of things, community service, I was not aware that a plumber would not be able to dig up the street until the state sent someone down to mark the street to determine if there are utilities underground, a state inspector or a state person, what-have-you.

Mr. Kishinchand

No. There is a state 1943 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET law which requires that the utilities mark the areas where there's going to be digging, any digging done, because of the underground utilities, whether there's a gas man, electric, water or what-have-you. It's a state law, and all the utilities are supposed to respond within 48 hours.

Councilman Dicicco

Within?

Mr. Kishinchand

Within 48 hours to make those markings. In emergency situations, I don't think that we need to wait, but we do inform all the other utilities.

Councilman Dicicco

That goes to the heart of my question. And no criticism to your department, because the response I get is generally excellent. Upon making some calls to a plumber friend of mine asking him to help the lady out, he informed me that we needed to wait until the state came out. Now, this was Saturday afternoon. The earliest the state inspector, for lack of -- I don't know what they're called. I'll say inspector -- who would come out to mark the street was Wednesday morning. Now, we made some additional calls again 1944 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to your department, and we were able to get it moved up on the list till Tuesday. So the lady was literally out of water Saturday, Sunday, Monday, until Tuesday morning when the plumber got in and finished the job somewhere towards the end of the day. So it was almost four days that the lady went without water. Fortunately, I live in a nice rowhouse neighborhood, everybody gets along. I even offered for her to stay at my house. But one of her neighbors would let her use the home, bathe, cooking, water, whatever she had to do. I was concerned that anyone should have to wait. And I was being reasonable, understanding we just came out of the big snowstorm, the weather it was cold, it was a Saturday. But I probably made a half a dozen calls. The plumber got back to me. He made some calls. And I'm forgetting some of the names of the people that I was dealing with. The names aren't really that important. We thought we were doing good when we got it moved up to Wednesday. My question is, is there a way in which the Water Department, is there legislation or something -- I mean, your people 1945 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET probably know where the utilities are. Why do we need to have a state agency come out and do the work of identifying underground utilities? Again, I'm not being critical to your department. This is serious. I mean, fortunately, this lady has good neighbors.

Mr. Kishinchand

No. I understand your question. I'm surprised that you were told that the state has to come out. It's generally the utilities that come out and do the marking. State does not intervene at all in cases like this, to my knowledge. If you don't mind, I'll have Dick Roy answer. He deals with these issues.

Councilman Dicicco

Dick, did someone from my office call you on this one? I don't remember if it was you. It was for Latona Street, 1100 block of Latona, Ms. Crispile, I think her last name was, Stella Crispile.

Mr. Roy

Yes. Our --

Councilman Dicicco

I want to thank you, by the way, for your assistance.

Mr. Roy

My name is Richard Roy, deputy water commissioner for operations. 1946 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The state -- it's not a state agency that comes out. It's a state law that requires anybody that's going to make an excavation into the street must notify one call. That's the state agency. And then they'll notify all the utilities, who then must respond within 48 hours to come out and mark where the utilities are so that they don't get hit during the excavation.

Councilman Dicicco

I think, then again, they're probably referring to state law, but, again, my question concern is -- and trying to be reasonable, weekend, cold weather, snowstorm and probably had a lot more work than you wanted to have that weekend anyway. Why would somebody have to wait until Wednesday?

Mr. Roy

They shouldn't have to. The state law is 48 hours. We can look into this particular event.

Councilman Dicicco

Because I'm concerned, if it's happening in other places, this is dangerous. And what happened, apparently the leak became worse. It got to be even greater. There was about a foot of water. So I got the plumber to go in and pump it out of her basement. 1947 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET But it was about almost a foot of water. And I just wanted to raise this today, because if there's something that we can do, something we need to do, is there state legislation we got to talk about changing, you know, let's talk about it. We can't allow this to go on.

Mr. Roy

I'll be happy to go back and review the details of this. I think there was some other things other than the one-call system that was causing that delay. And I think it was a few days before that I found out about it, but I think we got -- let me find out what the things were.

Councilman Dicicco

I know because Stella was at my house bright and early Saturday morning. She came back around midnight Saturday night and Sunday morning again, and I felt hopeless. I mean, there was not much I could do for her. And ultimately we got it done. The other point was, I had a plumber friend of mine who would have done it that Monday morning. At the latest, he said Monday. He said, But I can't get in until we get the markings of the street for utilities. And she's 79 years old, obviously will 1948 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET qualify for the low interest. But I forgot who I spoke with on the phone. He's not on that list. There is a separate list or special list of plumbers, I'm being told today, that would allow for a person like this woman to qualify for the no-interest loan, the five-year payout. Only certain plumbers are allowed to be used?

Mr. Roy

That's correct. There is a bidding process. The Water Department negotiates the fees for all the services, and plumbers can apply to get into the program. It's a bidding process done through procurement. Originally we had said that we wanted 15 different plumbers, and we weren't quite sure what 16 we would get through a response from the plumbers. 17 If we got more than that, what we said we would do 18 is a lottery, because everybody is getting in at the 19 same price. All we do is review their 20 qualifications to make sure they are a qualified plumber. And if they still want to get into this program and it's more than 20, then we would select 20 by a lottery and keep the rest in. If somebody had to be removed from the program, then we would bring another person in. 1949 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET We've never had to make that decision because we've only had plumbers ever apply, and 4 that work is split up between those 18 plumbers. 5

Councilman Dicicco

Do you think 6 there's a reason for that? Is it maybe we're not 7 paying them what they think they deserve? I'm sure 8 there's a lot more -- 9

Mr. Roy

The plumbers that are in the 10 program aren't scrambling to get out, so I think 11 they're fairly compensated. 12

Councilman Dicicco

I mean, I have a 13 problem, obviously, because I was trying to help 14 this lady. I said, I'll get you somebody. I made 15 some calls, and that one plumber who I happened to 16 know said, I'll get in there. I'm being told today 17 that he's not on the list, and I'm told that there's 18 no way that she can enter into or make application for that low interest, no interest loan because he's not on that list. Is that correct?

Mr. Kishinchand

He can apply for -- in fact --

Mr. Dicicco

He can apply to get on the list, but now it's after the fact.

Mr. Kishinchand

Right. When they bid 1950 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET this out again, then he can try and get on it.

Councilman Dicicco

I'm sorry?

Mr. Kishinchand

Once the contractors bid again, I'm not sure --

Councilman Dicicco

But I'm speaking about in this particular situation. I thought I was doing the right thing getting her somebody in there quick to get it done. We're told today that he's not on the list, so she can't even apply for the five-year, whatever that is, no interest loan. Is that correct?

Mr. Kishinchand

That's correct.

Councilman Dicicco

Is there any way of amending that? I mean, if he met at least the cost of the project -- let's assume his -- I think his bill was $2,075. If that is above what the Department would contract it for and he was willing to take a lesser amount, is -- you know, I'm looking for help here, because I'm on the hook for 2,000 bucks as we speak. Is there any way legally that we can accommodate that?

Mr. Kishinchand

Once it's gone through the procurement process, I'm not sure that there's a 1951 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET legal way of getting somebody who is outside of it. We could provide you with a list of the ones --

Councilman Dicicco

I mean, in the future, I would certainly do that, but I got a problem here because trying to help the lady in a time of need, I got a guy to go out and do the job, he didn't ask for any money, he said, Don't worry, I'll bill you, I'll take care of it, Frank, and I'll send you the bill.

Mr. Kishinchand

It's similar to bidding up for any kind of materials, parts and supplies. If a contractor has that contract, we can't go outside of the procurement process. That will be the only legal challenge we would have. But we'll certainly send the list of qualified plumbers who are on this list to you.

Councilman Dicicco

Again, I understand going forward in the future and now that I've been educated about the process. I just thought that the process had more to do with the person who was applying for the loan as not knowing that the plumber -- you needed to have a plumber who was on that list.

Mr. Kishinchand

Right. The only 1952 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET qualifications for the applicants are that the person be a homeowner and be residing in that property. That's it. There's no income requirement.

Councilman Dicicco

So at the moment, the lady is stuck, she's going to have to pay it? And I'm not blaming you. At the moment, if he's not on that list, she's going to have to pay that and there's no financial assistance for that?

Mr. Kishinchand

He's already fixed the property?

Councilman Dicicco

It's done, yes. The job is done.

Mr. Kishinchand

There's no legal way that we can --

Councilman Dicicco

That she could apply for that five-year?

Mr. Kishinchand

Five-year loan? Right now I'm not sure how we could do it. We can go back and talk to -- we can talk to the Law Department and see if there's any way that they can find she becomes eligible, but at this point --

Councilman Dicicco

At this point --

Mr. Kishinchand

-- today -- 1953 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Dicicco

You'd say no?

Mr. Kishinchand

Right.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? Councilman Nutter's light is on. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. You'll be stunned, I actually do not have --

Council President Verna

Oh, I hope I am.

Councilman Nutter

I actually don't have a question, really more of a comment. I wanted to thank the commissioner and deputy commissioner and a whole host of other people, which if I start trying to name names, I'm going to miss out on somebody and just have the rest of the Department upset. But I think I'm relatively safe with Commissioner Kishinchand and Deputy Commissioner Roy. I have, under some unfortunate 1954 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET circumstances but, nonetheless, I have had just a great experience with the Water Department, at times under trying circumstances, a water main breaks and all kinds of other things out in the community, and I just wanted to say on the record that you have been tremendously responsive morning, noon and night, weekdays, weekends and any other time, and all elements of the Department have provided tremendous service to my constituents. Even our side situations of, you know, the Belmont Treatment Plant and a whole host of things, and to the work force. I mean, our entire City work force is certainly of high quality. But, again, because of the number of events in the district, I've been out in the street a lot with the Water Department, again, under some trying circumstances, and I have seen public employees working under some of the most severe weather conditions imaginable doing their job and getting things done, and I am deeply appreciative personally, and on behalf of my constituents, I just really wanted to say thank you. We will continue to work on the day-to-day things and you guys respond to them. But 1955 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I don't really have a whole lot of questions for the Water Department. I just really wanted to express that to you, because it's a message that needs to go throughout the Department. I want to commend you, Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner, for the fine work that you do.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you very much, Councilman Nutter. I think comments like that are really a great incentive for the work force. They do try hard, as you said, and they work under hard conditions. I think they try to be as responsive as they can, and I do appreciate it, and I'll pass your comments on to the rest of the staff.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. I do have one last thing. Does the Department have a position on or a policy on possum? It's an issue from yesterday. You had to be here for the moment. No further questions, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, 1956 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Madam President. I only wanted to thank our commissioner and the Water Department for the fine job they do. Thank you.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you very much, Councilwoman.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions or comments by members of the Committee? Seeing none, gentlemen, thank you very much.

Mr. Kishinchand

Thank you very much. I appreciate your support.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Thank you for all your help. The Committee of the Whole will stand in recess until Monday, March the 10th at 9:30 a.m. Thank you. (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 4:00 p.m.) - - - 1957 3/5/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 5, 2003, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)