I appreciate it. With regard to the lots, one of my staff members had occasion to -- and maybe some of this is just system change that many of us have to get used to. In the past, as you well know, when you needed a vacant lot cleaned, you call L&I and they would try to deal with it. The response the other day was from L&I, "We don't deal with vacant lots; you need to call the NTI intake number." Can you tell us, if you have a vacant lot somewhere, who should we call? Whose 786 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) responsibility is it? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: If you have a vacant lot that you believe needs to be cleaned, and we haven't gotten to it yet?
Call your office, okay. Can you tell me fairly briefly what's going on? And, again, I did not see it in the budget book under the Managing Director's Office; maybe it's somewhere else. The Mayor's Office of Faith-Based initiatives, what exactly do they do? how many people work there? And I seem to recall that they had a truancy program that they were going to be running a couple years ago. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes. The Mayor's Office of Faith-Based Initiatives reports to the Mayor's Office but actually is considered part of the Social Services Unit. The director of that office is Nick Talafarro (ph), and he's been working for the past year, probably a little over a 787 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) year, with the faith-based community on many social services issues. One of those issues is the Student Assistance Program, which continues to work within the area to help -- and they're working in collaboration with DHS around what I've basically called "attendance truancy issues." DHS is probably more on the truancy end in looking at youngsters and students who have missed more than ten days of unexcused absences, and the attendance initiative is trying to get children sort of on the other end that are missing days in school. And what Nick is doing at this point is trying to work with many of the faith-based organizations in collaboration with Former Mayor Reverend Goode to address these issues.
What's the budget for that office? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: It is a part of the Administrative Division of the Managing Director's Mayor's Office, and we've been able to support them with a variety of ways through the units within Social Services to add help, which means both DHS, the Health Department, and the 788 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Behavior Health System have been supportive to them as they begin to do more reachout. We are at this point preparing a major proposal to go to the federal government to look for dollars from their faith-based initiative to help support this.
Okay. And are there staff? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I believe there are -- in addition to Nick, I believe there are two other staff.
Okay. Madam President, I believe I'm done. I was looking for a note that I had made to myself in this massive book here, but I have lost my place. So I shall return.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Down in the criminal justice population management, you said that with the cooperation of the First Judicial District, new alternative procedures have been established. Can you go into 789 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) that, explain that, and what has been the impact of those procedures on the number of population, prison population? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I will ask Diane Granlund, the population management guru.
The population management...? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Guru. (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon, Madam President. Diane Granlund, Deputy Managing Director for Criminal Justice Population Management We have developed a number of early parole programs in particular that are particularly successful with the drug and alcohol population that's incarcerated. The primary program is called the "Forensic Intensive Recovery Program." It's an early-parole program to a number of different levels of care for different periods of time. Depending upon the severity of the addiction and the other issues that are involved with the individual. These programs are under the management of the Coordinating Office of Drug and Alcohol 790 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Program, which a part of the Department of Public Health.
How does it work. An individual gets sentenced to the county jail by a judge of local jurisdiction. At approximately half of his minimum sentence, the Public Defender will look at the client to determine the needs of that individual. He will ask that he or she be evaluated.
Does the crime just have to be drug-related or what type?
No, it's any non-violent crime, whether it's a felony or misdemeanor, but we, of course, look at drug-related crimes, obviously. This person is evaluated clinically for a level of care. A recommendation is made to the sentencing judge. The District Attorney has an opportunity to review that recommendation and to object if she desires. And the judge at that point is free to make a decision as to whether he or she will parole that individual.
How long has the 791 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) program been in place and how many prisoners have been impacted? What is the number of individuals that are now in treatment?
The program has been in place since 1993, November of 1993. During the course of any given year, the --
Oh, no, sir. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: No, it's been a long-standing program.
During the course of any given year, the program will take roughly, I believe 1400 or 1500 inmates out of jail and put them into treatment.
I can get the number. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: The Number per year?
That prisoners that have been deviated from prison to -- COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: We can get you 792 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) that number, but Diane's right, it's probably about 1400 a year that come through these programs.
The treatment facilities are located across the City as well as outside of the City.
I could actually have that information for you by this afternoon when I come back for the Prisons testimony.
Are these private contracts or City-managed places? Is it through the health centers or is it private contracting out? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: These are private nonprofits that are contracted somewhere within the Behavioral Health System. They either have contracts with the Office of Mental Health, the Coordinating Office of Drug and Alcohol programs, or with CBH, and they may have programs 793 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) with any one of those. The standards to get into those programs are pretty high. People have to be credentialed, and they're on a fairly tight reporting-back system so that we can track both recidivism and effectiveness of programs.
Do we have the evaluations and the effectiveness of these different contracts that we have given out; do you have that?
We have two studies. The most recent study is a study of the individuals who have been through the program and have been out of the program for four years. We followed them for four years to see what the recidivism rate was. We can provide that to Council.
I'd like to see that, do you mind, through the office of the President, please. Thank you. Managing Director, in terms of the Beacon Programs, how many children do we have in after-school programs today? I don't think we got that on the record yet. 794 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Let me get back. I can give you a guess, but I would like to be more accurate on that. It should be approaching 10,000
I'd like to see it by locality. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Okay.
I'd like to see where it is that we have the overall programs located and where -- what neighborhoods are being afforded the services. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: We can break that down. The Beacons haven't started yet; we're just funding those. We can tell you what their capacity will be when they are fully operational, the other after-school programs that have been funded the last year, and those that were funded this year. We can tell you where they are, what their capacity is, how many children are in those. But we have all of that data. And, again, we have matched that data to high-crime areas.
So we have 10,000 right now within the programs as -- 795 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Maybe not quite 10,000. That may be with the Beacons coming up.
With the Beacons, it will bring us up to 10,000? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Right.
And the Beacons are new programs? 9 COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: There are 10 new 10 programs. Congreso got funded further with this 11 grant, and they had the only Beacon prior to this one.
Is the Beacon Program different from the other programs that we have across the City? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes, they are.
What are the differencens between the two of them? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: The biggest difference is probably that beacons operate on weekends and in evenings. And they're meant to be more comprehensive than your basic three-hour after-school program that runs from to or from 3 to 6.
And what is the 796 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) staffing in the after-school program that we have currently, and what will be the staffing in the Beacon Program? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I will be happy to give you a copy of our standards that cover both of those programs. That's written out in quite a bit of detail, and we can have that over to you very quickly.
And overall in different parts of City, we have different populations. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: That's correct.
So how are we dealing with, for example, the different languagess needs that we have in different areas? Like in the Barrio, we have Spanish. I imagine Congreso has a program, but that would be limited to a small sector of the City. The South Vietnamese and Cambodians have other needs. How are we doing in terms of the ability to be able to community and structure after-school programs in the different languagess that we have across the City? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I will make sure 797 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) that's addressed in the information that we're going to give you, but we've tried to be very conscious of diversity. As we have put out these RFPs, we've tried to make them possible for children with special heath-care needs to be in after-school programs, children with behavior needs, children with mental retardation, regular children that may be diverse in terms of physical disabilities and languare diversity, so --
I'd like to see that, a description of how that works and maybe a list of individuals in these programs. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: By name or by some other type?
Well, you know, if you can give it to us by name, you know, that would be appreciated, but I'd like to see a breakdown in terms of ethnic and women, nationalities, and so on. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Let me get you the basic description, the names of the program, and the capacity, because that is information we have on hand -- the names and the identities of the individuals that work in the program. We'll 798 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) probably have to go back to the program to get that and it could take a little bit longer.
We have time. We don't need to approve this until May 30th. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I'll let you have it before then.
The Beacon 9 Programs, what is the capacity of each one of them? 10 I don't think we heard that yet. What will be the 11 capacity of each one of them, and when will they go into effect? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I'm not sure I know that off the top of my head, but I believe that we made decisions on which programs would be in late January, and most of them should be geared up to begin operation beginning near the 1st of March.
You said Congreso has one, right? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes. They had the original one.
The original one, and I'd like to know what other parts of the City they are located in. 799 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Okay. That's all part of the information that's already been written up.
What are the ages of the youngsters that will attend the Beacon facilities? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: The RFPs were written so that people could respond either for elementary schools, middle high schools, or senior high schools. So the programs will differ in their age groups, depending on the grouping they were referred to. We were definitely looking for a couple of the programs to be high school-aged kids and to be the older grouping, as many of the after-school programs seem to focus on that younger group of elementary and middle school, but that information will be part of it. Again, that was all a part of the original request for proposal. So it's information that is readily available.
And they'll be located within the school? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: They will. 800 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) They're all connected to school. There is an agency and a school that have been tied together.
But if I have my kid in the program, do I send them to Edison High or do I send him to Congreso? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: It depends on where you live. In other words, while they're tied to the school, that's where the program is physically located. It didn't say that your child has to be enrolled in that school.
No, I'm not saying enrollment; I'm saying where is the program? My two kids are in an after-school programs, and they get out of school and they go downstairs and have an after-school program. Where are the programs going to be located in the eleven schools across the City? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Again, when we fund them, we funded a partnership between a school and a program. So Congreso is working with a specific school when they did their proposal, and we chose that dyad. There were a couple of occasions where we questioned the dyad and then we went back and 801 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) may have negotiated something different.
Will we be paying rent to the school? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: That's still under discussion.
Because this program was envisioned before the takeover, correct? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: That's correct.
So has there been conversations about this program with the new board that is in place? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: We have done a preliminary discussion with staff within the School Reform Commission, explaining to them what a Beacon is and how the Beacon works within the School District, and we will be continuing those discussions.
Will this be all a part of the agreement that is being drafted -- sorry. No, we haven't seen it. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Right.
Excuse me. Rather than belabor this issue, I'd appreciate it if you would send us any and all information on 802 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) this program, please. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: We will.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
I have two brief questions I want to come back to, but I want you to know I'm for barbecuing on the back porch. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I think Councilman Nutter wanted to make sure that we got you the Foreman Grills.
Right. The question I wanted to ask you about this information required for program is an after-school program. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Okay.
And I did hear Councilwoman Reynolds talk about a program that was tied to TANF. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Some of the money that supports the after-school programs are TANF dollars. 803 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.)
All right. So, therefore I understand that the health partner is the managing fiscal piece for this? We'll straighten that out, we won't belabor that here. We'll come back to that. The only other question I have -- oh, and we'll ask the Streets Commissioner this too, but I want you to know that I've had two complaints from people in the 50th Ward that they have received citations for not recycling. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I will investigate that.
One being my State rep. So they asked me to -- I've had two people tell me that. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I will inquire and get you some information on the recycling rules.
Okay. And the only other question I wanted to ask is, are we removing tree stumps? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes.
We just started that? Is that only for dead trees or all trees? 804 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: I think for any tree we remove, we've been contracting with a stump removal company to remove the stump.
That just started just began? COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Yes.
That hasn't always been the case, at least I've been the told.
The stump removal is street trees. We want to do it in the back of the yard or something like that most of the time.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to go back to one of questions that made me think of this because when I met with 805 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the NTI folks, one of my staff was visiting another city and observed something that he thought was a very good idea, and so did did the people of the NTI Program, but I want to reassure myself that this is something that's going to be considered. When we clean a lot, they noticed that in the other cities that they put a vapor barrier down after they clean the lot and actually put stones over it. The reason for that is that that polyethylene sheeting prevents the growth of vegetation shortly after you clean the lot. And they spoke to some of the folks -- I think it was Chicago -- and they said it was very, very effective. They clean the lot, they put the barrier down, and they actually just put stone, crushed stone, into that lot. It obviously was more of an expense. But obviously, you can't deter trash dumping. But what it did prevent, it prevented that immediate grow-back of weeds and other type of vegetation. So I'm hoping that when we develop the way, if we haven't already, that if that thought wasn't included in the proposal, that it be given some serious consideration, because it would be a 806 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) shame to go clean these lots and halfway through the summer, they're totally grown back over, which they would be.
We have experimented with that with actually woodchips from Fairmount Park 'cause they're free. We put the tarp down first, put the wood chips on top of that, and it actually does deter dumping on the ground because it seems like the community cares, and it's a more proactive approach to keeping an area clean. We actually use the Community Service Offenders also to dump the wood chips down there, so it's not very -- it's very cost-effective for the City.
Well, you know, whether it's wood chips or -- I thought that there was some EPA hesitation on using wood chips for ground covers. I'm not sure of the regulation, but I knew that there was something that discouraged the use of wood chips for -- I can't imagine why, but there is some rationale of the reason that they don't want to do that. But if we don't do something, all your effort, they'll just be grown back over within a 807 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) few months.
Another alternative is also working with PHS, which is a horticulture society, and putting trees around the barriers of these vacant lot would deter short-dumping and it's not as ugly as the jersey barriers as well.
Great. I just wanted to make sure that -- sometimes one of our problems in government is that we talk about a lot of things, and a lot of those things are -- you know, people nod their heads and there's no follow up on it. So hopefully there will be some follow-up on it. You know, if it's a good idea or a bad idea, at least I'd like somebody to tell me if it's a bad idea. And if it's a good one, hopefully, we're going do it.
No, I believe it is a good idea, and we'll work with the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative to implement some of that.
You're 808 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) welcome. Councilman Nutter, did you ever find the question you wanted to ask?
No, Madam President, and I don't know how I'll ever survive the rest of this process without finding that question, but I'll somehow try to get through the day.
Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Thank you very much. We appreciate your help. COMMISSIONER RICHMAN: Thank you.
At the request of the stenographer, we're going to take a ten-minute recess. (Break taken.) (Proceedings resume.) - - -
We are now back in session. The next department to be heard is the 809 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Police Department. (Police Department witnesses come forward.)
Commissioner, thank you for your patience and it's good to see you here. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Thank you, Council President Verna.
Please proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: All right. Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I am Sylvester Johnson, Police Commissioner. Alongside of me is Deputy Commissioner Nestel, Deputy Commissioner of Administration and Training. I'm really honored to be here today as the Police Commissioner of the City of Philadelphia and as the leader of the Police Department that is now recognized as one of the best in the country. I am very grateful to Mayor Street for giving me the opportunity to head this great department, and I am determined to do everything I can to justify 810 2/26/02 COMM. ) the confidence he has shown me by naming me to succeed John Timoney. The Police Department General Fund Budger request for Fiscal Year 2003 is $437,147,733. The largest proportion of this money will be used to employ 7,061 sworn personnel, 1,002 civilians, 1,037 school crossing patrol. Including the 144 sworn officers assigned to the Airport, funded through the Aviation Department our total sworn strength in Fiscal Year 2003 will be 7,205, the largest number in over years. 13 In Fiscal Year 2004, the Department 14 will lose some 504 employees through the DROP Program, including most of our top commanders. To compensate both for this exodus and for those who will be leaving through normal attrition, I have been authorized to hire 475 recruits in Fiscal Year 2003 and an additional 500 in Fiscal Year 2004. To be able to make the best use of our police officers, the Department must be able to deploy them where and when they are most needed. For this reason, in the forthcoming arbitration process that will govern the City's next contract with the FOP, the Department will be seeking more 811 2/26/02 COMM. ) latitude in adjusting the hours of work of police officers and transferring officers and responding to the shifting crime patterns. The contract comes into effect on July 1, 2002. The president of the FOP is aware of our position and the reason for it. As I told him in the meeting that I had with him since I became Commissioner, I look forward to working with him and his colleagues, and I know that he shares my goal of reducing crime and improving the quality of life in this city. Making the best use of our offices also means improving way the Department works with other parts of the criminal justice system. A good example of this is the pilot program implemented in September 1999 to reduce police overtime in preliminary court hearings. Usually, the preliminary or arresting officer will be allowed to read into the court records the testimony of auxiliary officers and eliminate the need for them to be present in court. This hearsay testimony was offered with the caveat that each police witness will be available for the actual trial as required by law evaluation. 812 2/26/02 COMM. ) An evaluation of the first six months of the pilot program show that the reduction in the number of court notices for preliminary hearing achieved by the program was such that the Department saved about $109,046 in police court overtime. This represents a decrease of 39 percent from the same time months earlier. 9 In addition, the pilot freed 3,778 10 hours of police time that would otherwise have been 11 spent waiting in court. This is equivalent to 12 having another three full-time officers on the street. The pilot program was recently expanded to additional preliminary hearing courtrooms. Although the Department tends to think of the Police Department mainly in terms of sworn officers, we also emply an 1,002 civilians and 1,037 school crossing guards. Our civilian staff tend to be the unsung heroes of the Department, and we paid a special tribute to them this morning. After September 11th, the public praised our uniformed police and fire officers, but too little was said about the role played by the civilian members of the Police Department whose support is essential to their effectiveness. 813 2/26/02 COMM.
) Speaking for the Police Department, I can tell you that we could not do our crime-fighting job without the scientific and technical and forensic science laboratories, our 911 call-takers and dispatchers, our fingerprint technicians, our crime-mapping experts, our administrative staff, our secretaries, our custodian staff, our correctional officers, and our tow truck drivers. The resource I am requesting are needed to enable the Department to achieve its mission of enhancing the quality of life for all Philadelphia by reducing the fear and incidence of crime, enforcing the law, and maintaining public orders. These are our objectives. I would like to spend a few moments to describe in more detail how we propose to achieve them. Reducing homicides. In my view, our first priority must be to reduce the number of homicides in the City. Under Commissioner Timoney, this number fell from arund 400 a year, where it had been stuck for about 10 years before 1998 to around 300 a year, where it has hovered for the last 3 years. This was an important achievement in 814 2/26/02 COMM. ) the Department, and we're proud of it. But this number is still far too high. We must reduce it further. From our analysis of these murders, it is clear that the most effective way if of preventing homicidess is by reducing the number of guns and the amount of drug activity on our streets. We aim to do both. But we recognize that to be successful, we need to work with others. S. Attorney that we are prepared to work closely with the federal law enforcement agencies active in Philadelphia, that we expect them to cooperate fully with us. We will also continue to work closely with our other partners in the Philadelphia criminal justice systems, as well as with other City agencies, the private sector, the faith community, and anyone else who shares our objectives of making Philadelphia safer. The Youth Violence Reduction Program, in which we are partners with Philadelphia Safe and Sound, the District Attorney's Office, the Adult Juvenile Probation Service, and others have approved that a joint approach does work. In the 815 2/26/02 COMM. ) areas served by this project, homicidess of and by young people, the most vulnerable element of our people, have been reduced sufficiently. One of the most striking facts about homicides committed in Philadelphia is that 79 percent were caused by firearms. The Police Department's determined to do whatever it can to reduce the number of guns on our streets. The Warrant Unit. One of the most effect ways of doing this is by targeting repeat offenders, especially those that have a history of using firearms and violence. This is the mission of the Departments Warrant Unit. It concentrates on finding repeated offenders who are wanted and bringing them to justice. In fiscal year 2001, the Warrant Unit arrested 700 fugitives and located another 214. This fiscal year, it is expected to arrest 735 and look at another 20, 25. In Fiscal Year 2003, it plans to arrest 772 and locate 236. Too many deaths and injuries occur in our city as a result of children playing with firearms. We must teach our children that guns are not toys, that the damage that they do can never be 816 2/26/02 COMM. ) repaired. The Department intends to work with other City agencies and private bodies to develop a publicity campaign to get this message across to our children. Experience has shown that such educational campaigns can make a difference. We are seeing this in relation to drugs. Our Heads-Up Program, which was presented to City Council some weeks ago, is an excellent example. We will continue to develop it and show to it any audience that expresses an interest. While we believe that such preventive work is essential for long-term success in the fight against illegal drugs, we recognize that those who deal in drugs as a way of life are unlikely to be deterred by it. For them, well-planned and well-executed police activity is the only answer.
As a result of such activity, we made 24,000 drug arrests in the year 2001, we confiscated $4 million in cash, and $30 million in illegal narcotics. We are determined to continue this kind of proactive law enforcement activity in Fiscal Year 2003. We will further strengthen both our 817 2/26/02 COMM. ) Narcotics Strike Force, the uniformed components of our Narcotics Bureau, the Narcotics Bureau Unit, the teams that target street-level drug activity "buy and bust" operations, and undertake long-term investigations designed to break up drugs organizations. We will continue to monitor closely the activities of the drug dealers at street level and those who control and profit from them. And working with our federal partners, we will develop new strategies and tactics aimed at eliminating them from our neighborhoods. Drugs are sometimes seen as the problem primarily for the minority community. This is because 85 to 90 percent of those who die in violence as a result of drug activities are African-Americans or Hispanic. It is worth remembering, however, that 85 to 90 percent of those die as a result of drug overdose are Caucasians. No racial or economic group in our society has escaped the destructive force of drugs. We must continue to tackle it with every weapon in our arsenal. The Department also has a major role to 818 2/26/02 COMM. ) play in improving the quality of life in our city. To this end, we have established a Neighborhood Service Unit that works with other City agencies to improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods. This unit deals with such issues as graffiti and abandoned vehicles and proactively prosecutes those who dump trash without concern for the environment. It will be working closely with those responsible for the Mayor's Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. School safety is a vital component to the quality of life in our city. The Police Department recognized this formally May 2001 when it created a new position of Deputy Police Commissiner of External Affairs with the responsibility for managing the 700-person School District Police Force and overseeing all safety aspects of the School District. At the start of the 2000 and 2001 school year, the Police Department established a school detail consisting of six divisional captains. They work with the principals of the schools in their areas to create safe corridors, investigage truancy, maximize school safety, and 819 2/26/02 COMM. ) coordinate duties of the school police and the school administration. In addition to the six captains, the Department currently has 41 officers assigned to the school detail. Their task is to patrol the school campus and surrounding areas, conduct crime prevention activities, respond to trouble calls in schools, and deal with truants. Officers who stop truant students on the street return them to their schools or to central truancy sites where they're interviewed and counseled. In the 200-2001 school year, it also handled 24,775 truants. Although this a large number, it represents a 9 percent decrease from the previous year. Technology. Until relatively recently, a police department like ours could fight crime pretty effectively provided it had plenty of trained personnel, an adequate fleet of vehicles, a central 911 control room, and a supply of personal radios. This is no longer true. The threat that we now face and the legal framework within which we have to work are such that we need a whole arsenal of sophisticated scientific and technology support, 820 2/26/02 COMM. ) including image-processing systems, forensic science analysis, and automatic fingerprint identification systems. The Department is well served in this respect and is determined and sure that it does not fall behind as technology develops. But I am not interested in implementing technology for its own sake.
What matters for me is not how much technology we have, but how well we are fulfilling ourcore mission of reducing crime and ensuring public safety. Among the many scientific and technology projects in which we are currently working or have recently completed, there are a few that I would like to highlight this morning. The most encouraging is the development of the new Forensic Science in the former Wistar School building at Eighth and Poplar. This state-of-the-art facility will serve our department as well as others in the region. 7 million and is expected to be completed in March 2003. I also want report on an exciting new development that will make a sufficient difference 821 2/26/02 COMM. ) in our ability to solve violent crimes. Currently, the Department can compare DNA recovery from crimes committed in cities only with DNA recovered from other crimes committed within the City. Thanks, however, to the important work recently completed by our own forensic scientists, we are able to use CODIS, the Combined DNA Index System developed by the FBI to compare DNA recovered from local crimes with DNA samples recovered from crime scenes anywhere in the United States. This very important development will come into effect as soon as we move into the new forensic science facilities I mentioned earlier. For most Philadelphians, the most important service provided by the Police Department is our response to 911 calls for help. Our 911 system was greatly improved by the installation of new 911 call-taking terminals in the Department's 911 call center by fitting mobile data terminals in all district patrol vehicles as well as many specialized units. The new 911 system has many time-saving and life-saving features, including detection of calls from individuals with hearing disabilities 822 2/26/02 COMM. ) and the capability to transfer calls to or contact police departments from surrounding counties. Unfortunately, another vital component for the Department's 911 system, the Computer Aided Dispatch (CAD) system is outdated and must be replaced. As it happens, the Fire Department also needs a new CAD system. We have decided to work with the Department to develop a single system that will serve both of us. 4 million to be funded with 911 revenue. 14 Another Police Department service 15 familiar to many Philadelphians is that in dealing 16 with reports of automobile accidents. The 17 department has recently implemented an automated 18 accident reporting system that allows the public 19 and insurance companies to access accident reports 20 via the Internet. 21 Finally, we have begun a project to 22 archive digitally all aspects of our Records and 23 Identification Unit. The archive computer will 24 hold a wide range of items such as fingerprint and palm prints, digital mug shots, and criminal 823 2/26/02 COMM. ) history information. When the project is finished, the Department will no longer have to keep the original of any document. Finally, all programs described above were in place before September 11, 2001, when our country was attacked by terrorists determined to destroy our way of life. This tragic event imposed both unexpected short-term burdens and new long-term responsibility on the Police Department. Immediately following September 11th, we had to reassign police resources from the conventional crime-fighting activites to provide an enhanced police coverage in Center City, additional security staff at the Philadelphia Stock Exchange, Red Cross Headquarters, and the City's Emergency Operating Center, and extra surveillance of high-profil locations such as public utility plants, etc. 3 million in General Fund overtime costs in Fiscal Year '02. As for the long-term effect of September 11th, the Department has developed a number of new programs aimed at preventing terrorist atrocities and responding urgently and 824 2/26/02 COMM. ) effectively to critical incidents.
In addition to and in common with other major cities, the Department will be strengthening its senior management team responsible for anti-terrorist and emergency management activity. The aim is to improve our ability to plan and manage anti-terrorist exercises and major emergencies, to collect and analyze anti-terrorist intelligence, and liaison with those at the federal and state level concerned with anti-terrorist and major emergencies. Our hope is that the federal government will provide additional funding to support these new responsibilities, but to date, these costs had to be met from within our existing budget provision. As I said at the outset of this testimony, the Police Department budget request for Fiscal Year 2003 is about $437 million. This money must fund all the services that the provided last year as well as the new responsibility that we have been given as a result of September 11th. We cannot skimp on those new anti-terrorist activities. Terrorists threaten the basics of a free society, but at the same time, we cannot allow 825 2/26/02 COMM. ) these new tasks to reduce the intensity of our effort directed at reducing homicidess, attacking illegal narcotics activity, and maintaining the civilized quality of life in our neighborhoods. The last four years have been one of the outstanding achievements for the Philadelphia Police Department. The City's annual Citizens Survey has shown that Philadelphians appreciate this and feel safer and more satisfied with our service. It is no exaggeration to say that John Timoney transformed our department. He pursued our civil leaders to establish a Police Foundation through which the private-sector could fund innovative programs in support of the Department, including university scholarships for the police officers. He made the Department recognize the racial factor in policing and took steps to deal with it, including the introduction of new policies and procedures for ensuring that racial profiling and bias were eliminated from our culture and our behavior. As I see it, it is my job to build on the achievements of John Timoney and to take this 826 2/26/02 COMM. ) department forward. John Timoney's contributions to the City will never be forgotten, but a police department cannot live on memories. In order to remain an effective and professional as it is today, the Department needs to look forward and not backwards. It needs to develop fresh solutions to new problems. It needs to meet new challenges and set itself more ambitious goals in order to successfully meet these challenges and achieve these goals. It needs to to make new investments in recruitment, in training, in buildings, in vehicles, in radios and computers and other equipment. Our budget request for the next fiscal year will allow us to make these new investments so that we can hold the ground that we have won over the past four years and achieve the objectives that I have outlined this morning. Finally, I would like to extend an open invitation to members of Council to tour Police Headquarters with me at any time to see some of our new technology and meet those who operate it. I also want to let members know that I will be inviting them shortly to the formal opening 827 2/26/02 COMM. ) of the new police station being built at 3901 Whittaker Avenue to serve both the 24th and 25th District. The building is now about 95 percent cleat and should be ready for occupancy in April. I would like to thank you for the opportunity to come here this morning, and I am prepared and my staff to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, how long does it take from the time a police recruit enters the Academy until he or she is out on the street and functioning as a police officer? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: The Academy is now in ten months.
And can you tell us what the average yearly attrition rate is for uniformed officers? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm going to refer some of these questions to Deputy Commissioner Nestel.
Certainly. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Tom 828 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Nestel, Deputy Police Commissioner. Councilwoman, the average attrition rate is 240 per year.
I think we've been hearing about the number of police officers that will be going out on the DROP Program. Commissioner, I believe in your testimony, you stated that there would basically 504? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: There will be 504 in Fiscal 2004.
Okay, would that be September or October? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Actually, it's September 28th. They have to be off the books by October 1st.
Okay. Yesterday, when Mr. Kidwell was here, who is with the Pension Bureau, he indicated that there would be approximately 641 police officers that would be going out on the DROP Program. You're saying 504? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: No, I'm saying 504 in Fiscal 2004. 829 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.)
Okay. So if we add 288 to the 504, that would give us 792. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No. If I can answer that, as of this morning -- and I checked with our personnel and our people -- we now have a total of sworn personnel of 633 sworn personnel that are now entered into the DROP Program as of this morning, and another 102 civilian personnel who are in the DROP Program.
How many? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: 102. Now, some will be leaving the very first day, October the 1st of --
How many do you anticipate will be leaving at the beginning of October? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: 289.
289? And I'm sure you've calculated how many would be going out through attrition? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Yes.
How many would that be? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: 20 per 830 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) month. We're calculating losing 504 officers, sworn personnel, through the DROP and 240 through normal attrition. However, it is expected that that normal attrition will slow down a little bit because of the DROP.
So you're authorized to hire 475 recruits in FY '03 and an additional 500 in FY '04. What is your estimated hiring schedule? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: We're expecting to have a class of 100 in August of 2002, 125 in December, 125 in April of 2003, 125 in June of 2003. And then going on to the next fiscal year --
Just a minute, please. Okay, please proceed. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Going into the next fiscal year, we will have four classes of 125 in each class. That will be in October of 2003, February of 2004, April and June of 2004.
As I 831 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) calculate it, you don't have your full complement or strength during the summer months when I think you really need them. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: During the summer months, there will be, of course, recruits in the Academy.
But you're saying it takes ten months for a recruit to be in the Academy, and I'm sure that the day that they graduate -- I don't know how you work this, but I'm sure that they're not simply put out on the street by themselves. Don't they usually go with another police officer? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, that depends on what district that they go to. We never let police officers out there without their safety in place. Normally, when they come out of the Academy and they go to particular district, they normally do work with another police officer, but they're very well surprised by a supervisor there. So if you go to a quiet district like the 5th District, sometimes you may be placed in the car by yourself.
I am telling 832 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) you, I think we're all extremely fearful that we're going to be losing police officers, and we would like to see them recruited as soon as possible. Excuse me a minute, please. Commissioner, if we could get back to our line of questioning, please. How will this schedule impact your ability to provide the appropriate coverage during FY '04? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Go ahead. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: I believe that we will be able to provide appropriate coverage. As it stands, we normally have at least 160 in the Academy at one time. At times, that goes to 240. During Fiscal '04, we will have about 375 in the Academy. However, one of things that have stood out as far as those who are leaving the DROP is that very few are leaving from the busy districts. An example: The 25th and 35th District only have one officer leaving. The higher numbers are leaving from the 7th District and the Airport.
I would assume also that most of those that have applied for the DROP Program are the veterans. For 833 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) instance, the captains, the lieutenants, the inspectors. How many captains, inspectors, and lieutenants will there be included in the DROP Program? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay, we will have 3 deputy commissioners, chief inspectors, 7 9 inspectors, 1 staff inspector, 26 captains, and 60 lieutenants.
And how many captains? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: captains, 96 18 sergeants, 32 corporals, 76 detectives; and as of 19 today, 320 police officers. 20 But what we did, the Mayor has gave us 21 the authority on March the 15th to promote, and on 22 that particular day on March 15th, we will be 23 promoting 7 chief inspectors, 14 inspectors, 19 24 captains, 26 lieutenants, 80 sergeants, and 19 25 corporals. And at this point, there's no list for 834 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the detectives. These promotions were made in anticipation that the DROP Program would be kicking in in the next one and a half and two years.
So there's an existing list for captains, lieutenants, sergeants, corporals, and you took from the existing list, I assume. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That is correct.
Commissioner, based on the need to hire a significant number of recruits for the Academy, do you think we'll be able to do that with -- without going outside the City of Philadelphia? You do you believe that we need to hire police officers from outside the City and change the residency requirement to do what you sound like you're going to need to do here? Or do you have enough qualified applicants from the City of Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We just gave a 835 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) police test approximately two weeks ago. There was approximately 14,000 -- between to 15,000 people 4 that applied for the test. 5 My understanding is 4900 people took 6 the test, which gives us the idea that we're 7 probably going to have to give another test in the 8 next six or seven months. 9 My feeling is that there's enough 10 qualified people inside the City of Philadelphia of 11 people qualified. It's not just Philadelphia 12 that's having this problem recruiting; it's on a 13 national level. New York spent $10 million for a 14 program just to go out there and publicize that they're hiring police officers. I don't know exactly what the problem is. I think if you join the Department just for money, then we're not getting the recruits. So, again, with 15,000 people applying for those tests and only 4900 taking the test, it's presenting a problem. Out of that 4900, we will probably reject close to 60 to 70 percent of the people that applied for it. So my feeling is that there's enough qualified people inside of Philadelphia if they 836 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) want to be police officers. I'm not exactly sure what the answer is.
Commissioner, have you ever looked at the process? I mean, it's such a long process. If you want to be a police officer, before you get to take the test, it could take months maybe before you're even told. So if you apply, you could wind up with another job. Maybe the process has to be looked at on when a person applies, when they're able to take the test, because, you know, six or eight months goes by before you're even eligible to go take the text. Maybe that's a discouragement or a deterrent in itself. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, what we want to do -- at least what I would like to do is look at the entire process. I think that -- I mean, the whole process sometimes to me on a personal level, I'm not satisfied with the entire system that we have in place. I'm not sure whether it's feasible to have a person live in the city a year before he takes the test instead of having him take the test, 837 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) come to the Department, and then move in six months after he passes the test. I mean, there's a lot of other ways that we can look at how we can solve this problem. But at this point, I think the last test we gave was about a year ago. We're going to have to give the test more frequently or we could have continuous testing.
Commissioner, why do we wait until we promote that many supervisors? Why -- are you able by Charter or whatever you're regulated by to promote two captains when you need a captain, five sergeants when you need five sergeants? Why do you have to wait when and have this massive appointment process? Why can't you fill positions as they're needed? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we probably can. We've never done it, and a lot of it is strictly civil service. All of our promotions is by civil service; I make no appointments. The only appointments in the Department is the Deputy Commissioner and the Commissioner. The other thing is that we normally -- I mean, I have no reason -- I wasn't Deputy 838 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Commissioner or Commissioner at that point, so I had to wait until I became Commissioner to try to prepare for these promotions. Ones we request the promotion, then it has to go through budget restraints, it has to go through the Managing Director, it has to go to the Mayor's Office. I mean, there's different procedures. I just cannot promote anytime I want to promote. I went to the Mayor's Office, I requested these promotions, and the Managing Director, and they approved thee promotions. I would like to make sure in the future that we have enough people just to cover the DROP Program and to promote more frequently than once every year or once every year and a half
Commissioner, just so I understand, in spite of the fact that you have recently promoted many of the uniformed personnel, when the DROP Program goes into effect, we're still going to be short of captains, 839 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) lieutenants, sergeants, corporals. Do we have an existing list that will cover that period of time so that you would be able to make your selection from that list? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: These promotions have not been made yet.
You said they won't be made until March 15th. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: March 15th.
All right. In spite of that, in spite of that, when the DROP Program goes into effect in September, you're still going to be short any number of lieutenants, sergeants, corporals. Do you have an existing list? Will the list be existing at that time from which you would be able to hire the captains, lieutenants, sergeants, corporals? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.
Okay. Are all school crossing guard positions filled at the present time? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: No, they're not. I believe there are about 30 840 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) vacancies.
Why is that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Because the attrition is high and it just takes a while to get people to take that test to get hired.
How frequently is the test being given? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: I believe the test is given about every two years.
There was a period of time when there was an ongoing test; I think it was given almost daily. That has changed now to every two years? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: To the best of your knowledge, it is not given daily. There was a period of time where the Police Department test was also given quite frequently. I will talk to the Personnel Director to find out exactly when, but they do keep an active list so that we can hire from it.
Well, if there's an active list that we could hire from, I don't know why we would have 30 vacancies. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER NESTEL: We hire as 841 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) quickly as we can, and I'll look into that for you.
Would you, please. Because I'd like some information on that. Commissioner, you said in your testimony that you will continue to strengthen both our Narcotics Strike Force, the uniformed component of the Narcotics Bureau, and the Narcotics Field unit. I am hoping that you would be able to achieve that since we are apparently going to have less uniformed personnel in FY '03 than we have in FY '02. Do you feel confident about that? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. There's a couple things that we have in place right now. What we're basically doing is beinging and analyzing all units in the Department.
Excuse me, Commissioner, I think you deserve a little more respect than that. Thank you. Please proceed. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We're going to analyze all the units to find out the number of people that we can put on the street. We've also 842 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) (indiscernible) into every district to see some if of their administrative people can duplicate jobs such as sanitation...
I'm sorry, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay, the sanitation officers. There's a lot of administrative positions that are in the Department that we're looking at now. We're not going to be anything until we make a complete analyzation [sic] of everything that we have within the Department before we bring these people in.
Well, I will tell you, and I know that I don't have to tell you because you fully realize that drugs are almost literally taking over some of our communities, and I think it's something that we really have to address sooner or later. It's absolutely frightening to me. And I know you did mention the amount of arrests that were made during the year. However, I think with many of these drug dealers or people who are using them, they're arrested one night, and the very next morning, they're out on 843 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the street doing business as usual. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, that's correct. And I've said it and I really believe it: We're never going to arrest our way out of the system. Law enforcement will never solve this problem. We have to go into other areas and join in partnership with the community, with the clergy, with the business people, because our arrests are tremendous, our confiscations are tremendous. Because of that, we're not into the rehab community. I've been into the prisons. Traditional police and locking people up is not changing the quality of life in Philadelphia. We have to go into something completely different. We have to be more proactive than we've ever been before. We not have to go into the education, the treatment, the prevention. Locking a person up and putting them in jail for 48 hours and they're addicted, when they come back out, they're still addicted. It hasn't solved anything. The Heads-Up Program that I mentioned earlier, we've been to 26,000 kids so far just to build to this program. No matter how many drugs 844 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) that come into the City of Philadelphia, if we can educate our community not to use it and not to sell it, then we would come a long way. But when we're going through the particular areas and we're just making a lot of arrests, it's not the amount of arrests that I'm concerned about; the numbers are not important to me. It's the quality of those arrests. We have to go out to the organizations. Our numbers, like I said, are tremendous, but if it's just numbers by itself and not changing the quality of life, it hasn't really changed anything, and it won't change anything. So what we're trying to do right now is join in the partnership with the Town Watch organizations, with the block captains, with the community. And I think if we do that, then we will be able to do something completely different.
Commissioner, I want to thank you for showing Councilmembers and their staffs the film on drugs. That was just a horrifying film to me. And I know that you have been making that same presentation to many of the schools. Have we found that there have been 845 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) students perhaps who have, after seeing this film, realized that they must get help immediately? Have they contacted the police? And what are we doing to help youngsters who are addicted? Do we have programs that we're sending them to? As I said, showing the film, to me, that is absolutely horrifying. Have we had children who have come forward and said, you know, I've seen this dreadful film, I truly need help, can you put me under a program? Have we gotten any of -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes. I'm not going to name the school, but --
I don't want you to mention schools; I just want you to tell me. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Okay.
Are there students that have now come forward and said, Please help me? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We went to numerous amounts of schools. The last school we went to maybe about two weeks ago, after the presentation, we had eight juveniles who decided to 846 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) go into rehab. We have set up a program with the Bridge Program, which is for juvenile people in rehab who are addicted. That same day they all went up to Bridge and have all basically put themselves into a program. Most of the time when go out to the different schools, we have rehab people with us, and we have people who have given us bids where a child gets up says, "Look, I have a problem. Afterwards, we have facilities or abilities to put them right into a program that same day.
Commissioner, are we showing that film to middle school and high school students? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am, we are.
I will tell you, after seeing that film, I will tell you, I could not erase many of those scenes from my mind for days. I think it's very impressive. Mr. Johnson, how many officers are assigned to the Neighborhood Services Unit? And what is the purpose of this unit? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not sure of 847 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the exact amount, but I think the purpose of the unit is to work in conjunction with the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. They do the abandoned vehicles, they do the sanitation they do other things like that to identify problem areas. I think it's approximately or of 9 them assigned, along with a supervisor. 10
Will they 11 also be interacting with the Community Life 12 Improvement Program that is a new initiative of the 13 Managing Director's Office? 14 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am, they 15 will.
Since you have approximately the same number of sworn officers in FY '03 as you had in FY '02, where will these officers be coming from and what's the impact on the other functions of your department? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well --
I know we have a police sanitation officer, I assume, in every district right now, do we not? I know we have one in the 17th. 848 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we do. Every district doesn't need the same type of officers, every district doesn't need a sanitation officer, every district doesn't need a community relations officer, every district doesn't need certain things. And if they do have that program there, there's no reason why one officer couldn't handle the same problem. He could be more than just having one responsibility. The sanitation officer can also be the community relations officer, can also be the victim witness officer. So we're going to look into that. What I try to do is deploy officers based on the different cabinets. I'm not sure whether anybody here in City Council has been to our COMPSTAT, but we try to hold the captains accountable for the personnel that they have in their particular district. By doing that, we give them the flexibility and the authority to put police officers where they feel it's needed to attack the crime problem in their particular district. Once every 28 days, they have to come in front of the deputy commissioners and myself to 849 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) explain exactly what they're doing and how they're crime fighting initiative. So we leave the responsibilities of deployment to the captains, but we hold them accountable for what they do.
Thank you. I have several other questions but I notice a number of Councilmembers who have their lights on. Is Councilman Ortiz in the room? Do you want to be recognized?
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon.
The first question I'm going to ask is for my colleague Councilwoman Brown; she had to leave, she had a prior engagement. A few years back, there was an initiative to increase the rolls in the Police 850 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Department for minorities and women, and I think that was relatively successful. The question is: In the leadership ranks in the Department, is there a similar type of initiative to increase those rolls in the officers, lieutenants, captains, inspectors, chief inspectors, deputies? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, all of our promotions are by civil service examination, and they take the civil service test. But I think when you see these promotions on the 15th, you'll have minorities, a large amount of minorities in every single rank. We'll have them in inspectors, captains, lieutenants. We have a large amount of them, almost 35, 40 percent that will be promoted to sergeants are minorities. I think it's another 35, 40 percent will be coming to lieutenant. The same basically with the captain. And normally in the history, at least from my experience, the minorities normally, with the promotional examinations, it's normally about 10 percent. We will triple those numbers with this promotion. And that's not because they're doing anything special for them; it's because they took 851 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the examination and they scored high on the examination, and they're in a position to be promoted. Even to the rank of chief inspector, we'll have two minorities will be promoted to the rank of chief inspector, three will be promoted to the rank of inspector, and approximately six or seven -- almost eight will be promoted to the rank of captain.
What about females? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the only rank where we won't have a number of females being promoted is the rank of lieutenant, and we're planning on making more promotions, but as the rank -- as the promotions are being made, I have to go strictly by the civil service list. We'll have more minorities being promoted to the rank of lieutenant this time than we've had in the last four five years at one time. We will not have any female lieutenants, Afro-American female lieutenants being promoted this time, but the next promotion, we will have the highest amount of female lieutenants ever been promoted at one time once we hit their numbers on 852 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) that list.
Okay, a couple of quick operational questions. I've been getting conflicting reports when I talk to residents and officers. Patrol sectors, most people in my district, they say they don't ever see a police car patroling through their blocks, and I understand the difficulty of vehicles being able to go down every block. We all kind of thought that happened in the older days, but it probably didn't. What's the process? Is there a sector for each vehicle and that vehicle's supposed to traverse down various streets? Or do we solely deal with a response-driven patrol? Can you run me through that process? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, we have sector integrity, but being realistic, in most of our districts, especially the busy districts, they are one-man cars. And realistically, they're going from one district or one area to the other area based on what's happening in that particular district. You may have a sector car that's making 853 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) just a car stop where another's going to back him up. In a real busy district, we try to supplement or complement that by having maybe the Narcotics Strike Force and highway patrol (indiscernible), but it says we're trying to have more emphasis and putting not so much pressure on the police officers to go out there and be visible, because being visible is being proactive, being proactive is being preventive. A lot of times, people won't commit the crimes if they see the police officers out there. But at the same time, that depends on sometimes if they have a full complement of officers working and not counting people that may be on vacation or somebody that may have called in sick, some of them may be injured, some during the daytime are in court. There's a whole lot of variables that comes into that. There are sometimes we will go to roll call where they might have 15 people assigned to a particular platoon, and maybe 7 or 8 are working. So it's kind of hard to have sector integrity when we don't have -- when everybody's working, and there's times that we have a problem with the cars. 854 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) So the uniformed officer on the street is the first officer out there no matter what happens. Whether it's a burglary or robbery or a homicide, the first one to respond is that uniformed officer, and they're very important. And we try to put the emphasis to them to go out there and do their job on a continuous basis. And that's one of other things with these promotions that we're about to do. Say, for example, in the 5th District, which is a quiet district, you have 12 sergeants or sergeants. 13
You're talking about the 5th Police District, not the 5th Council District. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, the 5th Police District.
All right. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: And in the 5th, you have 90 police officers assigned, approximately 90 police officers. In the 25th District, there are probably 20 or 40 police officers assigned, with still 13 sergeants. It doesn't make sense to have the amount of supervisor to the 5th District as assigned to the 25th District. 855 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) So with these promotions, it has given us the ability to put more supervisors in the busy districts to be able to be supervised more closely than in the quiet district. Again, the officers are our out there but there's very few times that we sill have the total complement of people who are assigned to platoon, working the street that same day.
Okay, all right, so I guess the answer is that we should not expect vehicles to traverse our streets as we thought we did in the old days. I get these calls, you know, from some of our friends, mutual friends in our district, a certain lady over in Strawberry Mansion that you know very well, who says she's never seen a police car on her block, and I needed to ask these questions get a sense of whether or not she could realistically expect a vehicle to actually patrol her block, not in response to a crime but to simply kind of -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, the only that I thing look at, Councilman, is that -- I mean, if she hasn't seen a police car, the positive thing is that there's no problem on that block, 856 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) hopefully. But the officer should be out there patroling, they should be visible because visibility prevents crime.
Okay. In a earlier question to the Managing Director, I had mentioned the fact that one of the concerns in the past of the Police Department was the coordination between the social service agencies, and she indicated that she was going to have a follow-up discussion with you about that issue. Can you just tell me what your expectations would be? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I had talked to the Managing Director maybe about a month ago, and she had made the request that I come to her headquarters or to her building to talk to her people about the Police Department and how my vision is that we're not going to solve this problem just by locking people up, that we're going to need people that's in rehab and alcoholization [sic] to be able to work together to solve a lot of these problems. I think the other thing is that I've 857 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) also talked to her about having City services combine with the Police Department and we go through these particular neighborhoods. I mean, Licenses and Inspections works very closely with us, there's the Streets Department, there's L&I. We have to have a wholistic type of approach when we go into a neighborhood to try to clean it up. We have to work very, very close together. And I think the Managing Director, Miss Richman, is amenable to that. Also, a lot of times, we have to change that mindset 'cause a lot of police officers feel as though traditional policing is just locking people up, that's going to solve the problem. It's not going to solve the problem, it hasn't solved the problem, it will never solve the problem.
Okay. My next question is kind of twofold. And you've actingly been in these discussions. The last Police Commissioner, who's a good friend of mine and a constituent of mine still, we've had discussions about street-corner activity, and you recall actually at last year's hearings, I asked this question about to what degree officers can be 858 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) proactive and, in my mind, preventing crime by allowing congregation of individuals who are obviously selling drugs. Commissioner Timoney was somewhat of a Civil Libertarian, so he felt that people had the right to stand on the corner for nine hours straight for no obvious reason other than the fact that they're selling drugs, but they still had the right to stand there unless the officer actually saw the drug sale. And I guess I want to ask you, one, will the policy change as it relates to simply moving people along on these troublesome corners? The other question is, I asked Commissioner Timoney before, as it relates to guns, if there was a law that he can change; i.e., the Harrisburg; i.e., the State legislature? What would the law be that will allow us to get all of these guns off the street? 'Cause I believe that, you know, there's always been drugs, but the problem now is that there's drugs and there's guns, and there had never been the level of gun activity that we've had in the past, and it seems pretty much that everybody in the world has a gun now, and that's 859 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) the first action that they take is to pull a gun. So I just wanted to ask you that in a twofold question 'cause I think my time winding down, and I had to get in two for one. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, Commissioner Timoney and I feel the same about the first question. My feelings is that if the kids are on the corner and they're doing something illegal, even if it's a minor offense, then we can address that problem -- whether it's loud noise, whatever it is. But the mere fact of moving from one corner to another corner to the middle of the block when there are not any illegal activity, I really believe it is unconstitutional and we're going to create more problems, I think, by fighting the drug activity and we clean up area, we're going to have to put jobs into these neighborhoods, we're going to have to put training into these neighborhoods, we're going to have to put something for these kids to do. For example --
Well, Commissioner, in all due respect, I'm not just talking about 860 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) kids; I'm talking about adults who are standing on the corner, right, selling drugs, drinking whatever, smoking blunts or whatever, right, everybody in the world knows what these guys are doing. They're standing on this corner, right, all day long, you know, creating an environment where people are afraid to go to the corner store, afraid to walk down the street. I mean at some point, I mean, we need to be in a position to do something. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: If they're on the corner --
I understand the Civil Libertarian issue, but the reality is that the liberties of these individuals in these communities are taken away every day because these guys decide it's their world, right, and they're going to do whatever they want to do. And at some point, I mean, the people in the community should have the right to have some piece of their neighborhoods. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Councilman, I agree with you 100 percent, and I didn't mean to give the impression that I think it's right to do 861 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) illegal activity on those corners, because it's not. If they're out there and they're drinking or disorderly or if they're selling drugs, then that is the responsibility of the Police Department to clear that corner up. I said if there's anything illegal on that corner being done, then we will react to that. We will survey that, we will make a surveillance of that corner and try to clean the corner up. But if there's no illegal activity, we just can't move them from the corner to the middle of the block to another place like that. And I think the citizens have a right be be able to come out their house and kids have the right to come out and play. But at the same time, we cannot break the law to enforce the law. And if we start taking people's civil rights by doing that, then it will basically create a problem. But if there is any illegal activity, no matter how moderate the illegal activity is, whether it's drinking, wherenever it is, then we will react to it.
Okay, not to belabor the point. I just want to add this. 862 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) My understanding, under this new initiative, the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, as it relates to certain visible violations, we are simply taking the position that we're going to enter -- we entered onto a vacant lot, some people will question the legality of that. We will then cut the locks, went in, removed a bunch of abandoned vehicles, issued a number of citations, and we basically took the position that if what we've done is illegal, then that individual should go to court. And we're taking a proactive approach, and we basically said we have 150 lawyers in the Law Department and we're going to do what we're going to do to put the onus on the perpetrator to come back and make us a defendant as opposed to the other way around. I mean, we're sending that signal on these other quality-of-life crimes, as it relates to vacant lots and abandoned vehicles, and I'm just wondering why we can't take a similar approach. I mean, you said what you said, but I just need for you to get a sense of my frustration with this issue publicly, as I've talked to 863 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) privately about this. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.
And then Part 2 was the gun issue. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What was the Part 2?
What law would you ask our legislature in Harrisburg to change that would allow you to get the guns off the street to some degree? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: What I've basically done is talk to the people from the federal sector. We had a cease-fire here. Cease-fire is really a gun initiative where a person who has committed a crime and has a weapon, that instead of trying 'em locally, they will be taken federally, and expandatory [sic] sentences would happen. We make a lot of gun arrests in the City of Philadelphia, but it seems like -- and not criticizing the court system here locally, but it's not taken real serious as it is in the federal sector, where a person's arrested for a gun, goes to a hearing or goes to court, and is released 864 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) either on probation or parole or other things like that. I think if we had strong sentencing for people who have weapons and who are arrested for weapons, then we can eliminate the problem.
I'm talking about the proliferation of guns, not the gun arrests. I'm saying that there is a problem with guns coming in here like water, right? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Right.
And we want to do some things -- I know Councilman Angel Ortiz years ago tried to do something with gun legislation, but he was shot down. I actually got a gun bill 16 passed, and now am told it can't be enforced.
We passed one two years ago. (Council President Verna strikes gavel.)
Our visitors are certainly welcome, but we are trying to conduct business. So I would appreciate you're not speaking or making noise. Thank you very much. 865 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.)
We passed Smart Gun Legislation, which goes into effect, and we did it around three years ago so that it could -- no, four years ago so that it could go into effect in the year 2003 because it's -- so that no handgun shall be sold in the City of Philadelphia without some protective or identifying mechanism, the Smart Gun concept. And that will probably be litigated very quickly when it goes into effect. I think it goes into effect January of 2003, Commissioner, if I'm sure, okay? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.
So we have that, and that's for the handgun. We passed legislation nine years ago dealing with assault weapons, and that was, again, more or less like the school takeover. The State passed Act 46 for us to be able to -- to prohibit us really from passing assault legislation, and the proliferation that we saw in '80, '89 and '90 about Uzis and AK-47s. Commissioner, if I'm wrong, you might -- but I think now we're seeing a lot of those same weapons back again on the streets. Is that what you're experiencing? 866 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir, it is.
So we'll see, Councilman, we'll see how our legislative powers as a council are affected when the legislation on the smart guns, the handguns, goes into effect in January. Hopefully, it would prevents the sale of guns, because every sale will have to have a person, and it will be identified who gets the gun, they will be registered, and so on down the line. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think we're talking to our attorneys that -- we're in the process right now of making it harder and stricter for people to get guns, but I will evaluate that, we will look that into that and everything we can, because it's an advantage not only to the citizens of Philadelphia but also to the Police Department to do as much as we can to make sure the right people are getting the weapons. So as we go through this process, I will keep you informed exactly what we're going to do and what we recommend 'cause we're going to need your help in getting it passed.
Last but not lease, are we going to push ahead on this one gun a month? 867 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, sir.
We're lobbying our friends in Harrisburg? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.
All right, thank you. - - - 868 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) (Reported by Lisa C. Bradley, RPR)
"Commissioner, not to belabor this issue, however, you did say that you have been authorized to hire an additional 500 in FY '04. When I asked you about the hiring schedule, it would appear that the four classes that you mentioned, October of '03, February '04, April and June of '04, that would I had indicate to me that we would not physically see 500 police officers on the street until FY '05.
When the first group leaves, which is the 289 on the last day of September, by that day we will have graduated 225 new officers will be on the street. There will be a slight reduction. It will take us time to get back the full strength, but this is about the most aggressive hiring program we could handle.
You said it's August of '02, and that would be 100.
The people that are hired 869 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) August 19th of '02 will graduate May of '03. But the classes -- they will graduate in May. At the end of --
I'm not questioning the 475. My question is, it has been testified to that an additional 500 would be hired in FY '04. There is supposed to be four classes, October of 2003, which means that they would not graduate until August of '04 which would be in FY '05. February class would not graduate until December '04, which is also FY '05. April the 4th, you said there would be 125; they wouldn't graduate until February '05. And you said there would be another class of 125, and they would not graduate until April '05. So I don't know how we get 500 in FY '04.
I said we would hire 500 in FY '04. Most of that fiscal year we will have 375 people in the academy.
At the conclusion of the hearing, I would like you to get together with Mr. McPherson, who is to my right, and Mr. Rob Dubow because I'd like to clear this up because it certainly is not very clear to me and I 870 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) don't know that it's clear to anybody else. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Nutter.
It took a while to get there, but it's a pleasure to be able to address you as the Police Commissioner of Philadelphia.
It is a well-deserved honor. Let me ask a couple questions. I had not originally planned to ask about this, but from the discussion back and forth between yourself and Councilman Clarke, I wonder whether or not -- and I grabbed a copy of the Philadelphia Code while you two gentlemen were having your conversation. I wonder whether or not by strict use, if not a little bit of creativity by the Police Department with regard to the well-known guys hanging out on the corner doing whatever they're doing, and from time 871 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) to time, I don't know, there might be some girls hanging out on the corner, but people hanging out on the corner doing the things they do, in many instances, either up to no good or actively engaged in illegal activities. I wonder about the use of some of the provisions of our Section 10-600 in the Philadelphia Code, and there might be other sections, generally entitled -- Section 10 is "Regulation of Individual Conduct and Activity." Could you maybe shed a little light on whether or not ordinances like loitering, open containers on the highway, and some of those kinds of provisions are tools that the Police Department may be able to either utilize or re-utilize in ways that can -- I'm sure Councilman Clarke speaks from experience. I have my own experience of this other time in our City's history when if, one, if you were told by a police officer to clear the corner, generally you did. And I know I had that experience on a number of occasions. But also with added emphasis to quality of life issues, are there provisions of our Philadelphia Code that gives the Police Department some of the tools that they might need if they are somewhat creative in their use? 872 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.)
Councilman, on our staff, I have four attorneys. And what I'm willing to do is have our attorneys look into that.
With every respect to the attorneys, Commissioner, that's only going to get you in trouble. You've got four attorneys on your staff, you might not be able to --
What I would like for them to do is to look for that. Any tools that we can possibly use to change the quality of life in Philadelphia, including what's in the Code, we're willing to do. And the only thing I'm going to use the attorney for is to research that. If there is a code on the books that is legal that we can move people off the corners or disperse crowds, then I am willing to do that because I'm willing to do anything that's going to change the quality of life in Philadelphia that's legal. If those codes are legal, then it's not a problem with me at all. I didn't want to do anything illegal. I did not want to break the law to enforce the law.
Absolutely. And Ms. Simmons knows that I have the greatest respect for her and I know she'll give you good advice. 873 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) On the other hand, for whatever else some of the folks may be doing, sometimes they are, in fact, loitering, they are blocking the highway, they do engage in other activity. And quite frankly, it might sound a little harsh, but if they're out there doing what they're doing, then I think we've got to throw the full weight of whatever we have, if it is loitering, if it's spitting on the sidewalk, if it's blocking the highway, if you're caring an open container, all of those things are in fact on the books. And it might seem like rather small offenses, but if it does disrupt their activity and makes the lives of the people out in the community that much more peaceful on a day-to-day basis, then I am certainly going to be a person to support the Department's efforts to, not only maintain the law and respect people's rights -- but you know as well as I do sometimes in our protection of certain people's rights, which is often a very small group of people actively engaged in illegal activities because we're afraid that they're either going to sue us or come after us, a much larger group of people, their rights are absolutely taken away from them and they live in a 874 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) state of fear and terror. And part of our responsibility is to look out for their rights as well.
Councilman, I will do everything I can. The Department will do everything we can to enforce any law that's on the book that's going to change and better the quality of life in our neighborhoods.
Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner, I saw you on TV not too long ago. There was a recent rash -- and that doesn't mean at other times there aren't shootings, but you were seemingly either at a press conference or an availability just the other day because of -- I think the number 14 seems to stick with me, that there were either 14 shootings or 14 people had been shot or something over maybe a three- or four-day period of time. And you talked about a recent meeting that you had with commanders about that particular issue and some of your expectations out of that. Can you give us a little more information about either the particular situation or your general view about how we're going to deal with 875 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) issues of crime and excessive violence and drug activity, especially when it's concentrated in a particular area, maybe gang warfare back and forth between groups or retaliation, turf warfare activity? Can you tell us what's going on with that?
Yes, sir. Last week we had approximately people shot. 10 (Hearing interrupted.) 11
You do have 12 right to speak, but you are not to interfere with 13 our hearings, sir. 14 Excuse me, sir. Just a moment, please. You can testify. Wait until our hearings are just about over. After the Prison Commissioner testifies, we'll be very happy to hear what you have to say. Presently, we're in a budget hearing and I am not going to have you interfere with our process. You're more than welcome to stay. Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The hearing is an hour late.
And so we understand that. We have been sitting here all day. We are not going to allow you interrupt our session. 876 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) Thank you. Commissioner, please proceed.
They had approximately 5 shootings last week. And because of these 6 shootings -- there was one on Friday where eight 7 people were shot: Three people dead, two people 8 possibly could die. That was a concern of mine. 9 The main concern, I wanted to know from our 10 commanders what did we have in place to counteract 11 that. I wanted to know what did they know about 12 these particular shootings and what is our strategy 13 to make sure that these things will not happen 14 again. 15 In addition to that, I'm having a meeting today, if I'm out of City Council on time, with the District Attorney, the head of the DEA and also the head of Narcotics. I think we have to have a holistic-type approach. But the main focus on Saturday is that I was very concerned about these shootings. I feel as though the captains and the inspectors and the chief inspectors should be equally as concerned as I was that we did not have people going all over the City just committing shootings and we took it in stride, that we had to 877 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) fight back. We want to send a message that the Police Department is in charge of the City, not the drug dealers or not the people who are out there doing these particular shootings. If we identify these people, again, what strategy do we have in place to bring these people down. So I brought the Narcotics Bureau in, the Patrol Bureau in, the Detective Bureau in, everybody to sit down and strategize and talk about what did they know about the particular shootings, what have they done about the particular shootings, and what are they planning on doing about these shootings. And that is the reason why I had the meetings Saturday. I should not, at least in my opinion, have to tell a captain or inspector or chief what their problems are in their particular districts and what their plan should be. They should be telling me that there is a problem in their district and they should be telling me what their plans are. That should be on a continuous basis. That was myself, Deputy Commissioner Mitchell who's in charge of Operations, we sat at the meeting along with the person who's like the chief of staff to me, Inspector Tamperelli (ph), and we wanted them to 878 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) come back and tell us what are they going to do about it. The Chief Inspector Patrol went back to his particular bureau, he put a memorandum out yesterday. He wants them to identify what their strategies are by March 4th on how they can combat these particular things. What we do at COMSTAT is hold our captains and inspectors and chief accountable. We give them the flexibility and the authority to do the things that they have to do. But they have to explain to us what they're doing about the crime. And again, that's what the meeting was about Saturday.
Thank you, Commissioner. I'll be glad to have a conversation with you later -- and you've always made yourself available -- about a couple specific areas in the district I represent, parts of West Philadelphia, Winfield and Overbrook and some areas over in the 39th Police District as well that do need some particular concentrated attention. There appear to be a number of entities operating that are not only in the course of doing what they do are disruptive and destructive to the community, but also 879 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) apparently there is rivalry activity going on which is causing even more of a problem, and I'd like to talk to you about those specific areas. I think we can draw them out on a map and I'd like to make some progress on those.
Yes, sir, I will. What I said earlier is that I'm calling all the people, at least in the City of Philadelphia, who's involved in drug activity -- not so much drug activity, but who's involved in drug enforcement, law enforcement, to be able to communicate and work together starting today. In the following week, we're going to meet with all law enforcement agencies that we can sit down and come up with a strategy. Pat Mann who is the US Attorney is very amenable to the meetings that we're about to have. The federal sector has a lot of resources that we don't have. They have a lot of flexibility that we don't have. One of the problems that we're having in a lot of these shootings is that we cannot get witnesses to come forward. We're thinking about having a grand jury convene and start bringing people in and making them talk and give us information, every way that we can do to solve these problems. Because a lot people 880 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) are arrested, the Police Department are arresting them, but the witnesses are not showing up. And I can understand that because of a lot of them have to live in that particular neighborhood. But we have to put something in place to protect the witnesses and make sure they come in. Even some of the victims will not tell us who shot them. So I think the grand jury, whether it's a federal grand jury or a state grand jury, will be helpful to us. And our ideas, see how we can do to bring people in because some of the people we were looking for in last shooting have been arrested 9 and 10 times. We've identified who they are, but nobody will come to court to testify against them. We have to solve that problem.
Thank you. On another topic, on of your testimony, you talk about school safety. I'd like to talk about that particular issue with regard to some truancy issues and safety at the particular school buildings. Now, your testimony indicates that Deputy Commissioner Green reports both to you and the head of the School Reform Commission. How is that arrangement going to work going forward? 881 2/26/02 COMM. OF THE WHOLE - BILL 020001 (cont'd.) And I know for a fact -- and the School District has its own police force; is that right?
And so what, that police force is now under the jurisdiction of Deputy Commissioner Green?
And how is this dual reporting responsibility work? How can the Deputy Commissioner report both to you and to the head of School Reform Commission?