COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:40 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN BILL 060633 - An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Delaware Avenue, Penn Street, Ellen Street... BILL 070819 - An ordinance approving the fourth amendment of the redevelopment proposal for the Tioga Urban Renewal Area... BILL 070827 - An ordinance approving the thirty-sixth amendment of the redevelopment proposal for the Model Cities Urban Renewal Area... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good morning, everyone. This is the public hearing of the Committee on Rules. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 060633. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Delaware Avenue, Penn Street, Ellen Street extended, the Delaware River and Spring Garden Street extended.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Chairman Verna and members of the Rules Committee. I am William Kramer, the Acting Division Director of the Development Planning Division of the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I am here today to testify on Bill No. 25 060633, which was introduced by 3 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Councilmember DiCicco on September 14, 2006. Bill No. 060633 amends the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning of a portion of the area bounded by Delaware Avenue, Penn Street, Ellen Street, the Delaware River and Spring Garden Street. This rezoning would change the zoning designation of a portion of that area from the current zoning designation of G-2 General Industrial to one of C-3 Commercial. This bill reverses the provisions of Bill 15 No. 060344, which became law on September 14, 2006. The provisions of Bill No. 17 060633 are the same as Bill No. 040937, which was signed into law January 25, 2005. The City Planning Commission at its meeting of December 14, 2004 considered and approved Bill No. 040937. Because Bill No. 060633 has the same provisions as Bill No. 040937, it is considered a matter of previous policy by 4 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. Accordingly, we recommend that Bill No. 060633 be approved. I have an amendment for this bill that I respectfully request be adopted by this Committee. In order to be as clear as possible with regard to the zoning of any particular property, zoning change bills no longer require a fee from the party of interest. Because this policy was adopted after this bill 13 was drafted, we are requesting that this bill be amended to remove such provision so as to be consistent with current policy. To that end, I have an amendment for your consideration. This concludes my testimony. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Mr. Kramer. Do we have a copy of the amendment? 5 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Fine. Do members of the Committee have any questions of Mr. Kramer? The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Just a general question on the fee. How much was the previous fee?
Thank you, Mr. Kramer. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Mr. Kramer, while you're there, please. In your testimony you said that this property has been rezoned several times?
And 6 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. that's been during the last several years. Can you give us some background, explanation as to why the changes have occurred?
As I understand it, the original bill changed this to C-3 as part of the waterfront redevelopment water-run towers down on Delaware Avenue. Subsequently, the property was sold to what is now to be known as Trump Tower Development, and at the time that they sold, there was some concern that the Councilman had with what they were going to do in terms of development, which led him to change the zoning back to G-2, which was the bill before this one. Subsequently, those issues, as I understand it, have been resolved and the development is going forward, and that's why they are reverting it back to C-3.
Is 7 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. there a development plan and, if so, what is the proposal?
I have not seen the latest development proposal. It's my understanding that the original proposal had building permits issued on it, so there hasn't been a new plan sent to the Planning Commission.
So we really know nothing about what the proposal would be.
I don't have those particulars. Mr. Abernathy is probably more aware of that than I am.
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. Brian Abernathy, Councilman Frank DiCicco's office. The project is a mixed-use residential condo tower, approximately 45 stories tall. All issues have been worked out with the community, 8 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. surrounding community.
The developer is a partnership from New York. It's several individuals, actually.
Can you share with us what the amount and source of funding would be?
I don't have those details. I believe they were covered under the original rezoning classification in '04.
All right. Any questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much. 9 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of Bill No. 8 070819. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance 10 approving the fourth amendment of the redevelopment proposal for the Tioga Urban Renewal Area, being the area generally bounded by Hunting Park Avenue on the north, Broad Street, Germantown Avenue, Venango Street, 15th Street, Allegheny Avenue and Germantown Avenue on the east, Glenwood Avenue and Lehigh Avenue on the south, 23rd Street, Allegheny Avenue and 23rd Street on the west, including the fourth amendment to the urban renewal plan and relocation plan, which provides, inter alia, for the additional land acquisition of 14 properties for residential and related uses; the provision of certain relocation 10 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. services, as required by law; and declaring that condemnation is not imminent with respect to the project.
Good morning, Madam Chairperson and members of the Committee. I am Michael Koonce, Executive Director of the Redevelopment Authority, and I am here to speak in support of Bill No. 070819, which is the fourth amendment to the redevelopment proposal and the fourth amendment to the urban renewal plan for the Tioga Urban Renewal Area. This proposal and plan provide for the acquisition of 14 vacant lots. The properties are to be acquired in support of the STR8 Hand LLC parking lot development, which will serve as additional parking for their adjacent business. Estimated acquisition cost is $52,640 and will be paid for through bond proceeds from the Neighborhood 11 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Transformation Initiative. Madam Chairperson and members of the Committee, I respectfully request favorable consideration of Bill No. 6 070827 (sic) and would also ask the suspension of Council rules to allow first reading on November 15, 2007.
Thank you. Any questions from members of the Committee of Mr. Koonce? (No response.)
Mr. Koonce, can you please explain the nature of the businesses for which these properties are to be acquired for parking purposes?
I'm not as familiar with them as our next witness, Mr. Redding.
Hi. Good 12 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. morning. My name is Richard Redding. I am Director of Community Planning at the City Planning Commission. The company is around the corner on Nice Street. It's a neighboring property. It's a construction company called STR8 Hand, Incorporated.
Thank you. Do you have testimony that you're going to be providing?
Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. I'm Richard Redding, Director of Community Planning, testifying in support of Bill No. 070819 approving the fourth amendment of the redevelopment proposal for Tioga, authorizing acquisition of 14 properties. The Planning Commission approved this on 13 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. August 21st of '07. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Can you tell us if the community has expressed any concern?
We haven't canvassed the community. I know City Planning can speak to it a bit, but we received this request directly from the interagency review team and we're essentially just the implementer.
Madam President, as you know, when the Redevelopment Authority has these approvals, most of them come through the Planning Commission and we do a review and we also talk to the neighborhood groups. We spoke to Tioga United, the community group, and informed them, and they did not indicate any problems with this. Later on I notified the community organization Sunrise CDC. And I think the community is fully notified. 14 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. This is a section of Tioga that is very much mixed development. It's a combination of industrial and vacant and a small amount of housing, so it's not like it's in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
Can you tell us how many parking spaces will be provided by the acquisition of these properties?
We'd estimate about 12 to 15 parking spaces. The actual business is at the bottom of the illustration. The homes across the street are next up, and the parking lots are the top two photos. 15 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you, Madam President. We have Mr. Sharif, who is owner and operator of the business, here this morning who also would like to testify. I went out and visited this location, I think it was, last Wednesday. I'm not sure, or Thursday. And they have a good project going there. This is a very blighted part of the district, a lot of abandonment, and he has actually done some really good work creating sort of like an incubator, an incubation center for small businesses. And he has met with Nicetown CDC, which is the closest CDC. He's met with them several times regarding this, and I know that he's built a relationship with several churches that are located close by. 16 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. So I just want you to know that, and he is here, and I don't know whether he's on the witness list or not.
How is everyone? Thank you for having me here this morning. I purchased the property about three years ago. The property was in extreme disrepair, had enormous tax delinquents on it, for which I satisfied. The property is a mixed-use facility that accommodates five businesses. There are two construction companies there, STR8 Hand Management, Incorporated, as well as STR8 Hand Construction LLC. There's a CPA there. 17 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. There's also an auto body shop in the front of the facility, as well as an IT company called Tech Media. I need the additional space to accommodate the businesses for parking. Currently, the area in the front, which has about -- the parking lot on the Germantown Avenue side, all of the parking spaces are being utilized by the auto body shop. So in the rear of the building, which is the Nice Street entrance, we don't have parking to accommodate our trucks as well as visitors coming to the office. So we sorely need this space. When I acquired the building, as I said, it was in extreme disrepair. We rehabilitated the entire building, which is about 11,000 square feet. As it pertains to the lot, the lot had one house, one structure, on it that was torn down, I believe, by the NTI program, as well as a number of trees, a fence that was falling, and we invested 18 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. approximately $12,000 clearing the lot off in addition to leveling it, and it would be a great asset to us to accommodate what we're trying to do in the community.
Thank you very much. Did you provide your name for the stenographer, please.
Yes. My name is Shamsud-Din Sharif, S-H-A-M-S-U-D hyphen D-I-N. Sharif, S-H-A-R-I-F.
Thank you. Any questions or comments from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
I'd just like to say for the record that he has done an excellent job renovating a parcel that I actually thought nobody was interested in. And there's a couple other houses that he wants to acquire 19 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. from PHA that are blighted and abandoned and he and his staff are keeping it clean. So I think that in the end, this is going to be a good project.
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the last bill, Bill No. 17 070827. MR. McPHERSON: An ordinance 19 approving the thirty-sixth amendment of the redevelopment proposal for the Model Cities Urban Renewal Area, being the area beginning at the northwest corner of Front Street and Spring Garden Street, including the twenty-eighth amendment to the urban renewal plan and the 20 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. twenty-sixth amendment to the relocation plan, which provides, inter alia, for the additional land acquisition of approximately 30 properties for residential and related uses; the designation of certain properties as not to be acquired; the provision of certain relocation services, as required by law; and declaring that condemnation is not imminent with respect to the project.
Madam Chairperson and members of the Committee, I am Michael Koonce and I am here to speak in support of Bill No. 070827, which is the thirty-sixth amendment to the redevelopment proposal and the twenty-eighth amendment to the urban renewal plan for the Model Cities Urban Renewal Area. The proposal and plan provide for the acquisition of a total of 30 properties. 21 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. One vacant structure will be acquired on behalf of Friends Rehab Program, Inc. to complete site assemblage for Phase I of their Strawberry Mansion Homeownership Project. The project will consist of a total of 32 affordable homeownership units. Nineteen properties, vacant 10 lots and one occupied structure, will be 11 acquired on behalf of Community Ventures. 12 Community Ventures proposes to build 13 approximately 50 units of rental housing 14 using Low-Income Housing Tax Credits and 15 HOME subsidy. Community Ventures will 16 act as developer in partnership with 17 Francisville Community Development 18 Corporation. Seven properties, five vacant structures and two vacant lots, will be acquired on behalf of the Blaine School Rehabilitation Initiative. This project was listed in the Office of Housing and Community Development Strawberry Mansion Housing Strategic Plan which was released 22 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. in March. The project will consist of rehabilitation of all structures for development as affordable homeownership units for first-time home buyers. The vacant lots will be conveyed to adjacent homeowners for side yards or gardens. One vacant lot will be acquired on behalf of Norris Square CDC. Acquisition of this one parcel will complete site assemblage for the Hunter School Homeownership Project. Norris Square CDC proposes to construct 49 residential units for sale to qualified low- and moderate-income buyers and to produce a range of mixed-income buyers. One vacant City-owned lot will be acquired and combined with others that were included in a previous redevelopment proposal on behalf of Community Ventures, whose proposal was selected as a result of a homeownership request for proposals that was issued by OHCD for the Strawberry Mansion area. One vacant lot will be acquired 23 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. on behalf of Project H.O.M.E. CDC for the expansion of the parking facility for the Honickman Learning Center and Comcast Technology Labs, which is located directly across the street. Madam Chairperson and members of the Committee, I respectfully request favorable consideration of Bill No. 10 070827 and would also ask the suspension of Council rules to allow first reading on November 15, 2007.
Thank you. Mr. Redding, are you going to testify on this?
Yes, I would like to, very briefly. Madam President and members of the Committee, I am Richard Redding, Director of Community Planning, testifying in support of Bill No. 070827, authorizing acquisition for several properties in the Model Cities Urban Renewal Area, two projects in Strawberry 24 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Mansion. And it's notable, as Mr. Koonce said, that they follow up from a plan that our Planning Commission participated in with Councilman Clarke and with OHCD. And additional community development projects in Francisville, Eastern North Philadelphia and the Project H.O.M.E. area. The Planning Commission approved this in September of '07. Thank you.
We will recognize you in due time. Thank you. Can either of you gentlemen give us a better description of this area than is given by the title of the bill, which merely states that it is, quote, "the area beginning at the northwest corner of Front Street and Spring Garden Street," end of quote.
Model Cities 25 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Urban Renewal Area is generally lower North Philadelphia below Lehigh Avenue. So everything from Girard Avenue to Lehigh, and almost river to river.
Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, I remember this issue came up before. Unfortunately, when the Model Cities areas were designated, it was known that they were very broad. Actually, this particular one I think actually encompasses parts of Councilman DiCicco's district, in addition to a significant part in my district. But I do remember during that discussion there was a request by Councilmembers to ask that those lines could be revisited because of the broad nature of the existing Model Cities parcels, and I don't think we got a response, but I do remember we had a very detailed conversation about having 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. those lines readdressed and there was some discussion about having them only in Council districts, not having them overlap Broad Street and certain significant arteries. And I think that both the Redevelopment Authority and Planning indicated a willingness to entertain a possibility of changing the boundaries on some of those urban renewal areas, but we did not get a response. But it did come up before, I remember, and, Madam President, I think you may have asked the same question.
Thank you, Madam President. Due to the fact that the title of the bill is not so specific, perhaps you for the record could indicate the size of the lot, either the square footage or the shape of it. I mean, I generally know Front and Spring Garden from passing it, but I'm not specifically 27 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. aware of where exactly it is, what it's next to, if you know.
No. Aren't we taking -- I'm sorry. Oh, I see. So it's beginning and can fan out.
The bill 10 describes a huge area of North Philadelphia, but the subject properties and subject projects are basically scattered addresses in small clusters in various sections.
Certainly we wouldn't want to hold anything up like this, but in the future, it would seem somewhat better for us to be able to at least have addresses. I will accept Councilman Clarke's word and what you're saying in testimony, and I understand the vagueness of the Model Cities situation, but without having -- you kind of feel like you're voting in the dark on some of these things. 28 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Could you submit that for the record so it's somewhere?
Excuse me. And if you can -- I don't know if the Planning Commission or the Redevelopment Authority will be responsible for that -- seriously entertain possibly engaging in some process that would, I guess, shrink the size of some of these urban renewal areas, because they're extremely broad, and it actually creates problems for us, because I understand in the timing of an urban renewal ordinance, you can't enact an additional urban renewal ordinance 23 until this one, say, for instance, is complete.
So we can't introduce anything in this extremely large area for condemnation or any action until this bill is passed by Council and signed by the Mayor.
So there could be times where we would like to simultaneously do something in this particular area, but we're prohibited as a result of that law. So if you can seriously entertain possibly shrinking some of the size of those urban renewal areas.
I'll set up those meetings with the appropriate Council staff and City Planning. Maybe we can start as early as next week?
Okay. We got a kind of busy schedule next week. But as long as -- because I do remember the Council President bringing that up before.
Thank you, Madam President. Along the same line, I guess something in the title to kind of alert people that were just looking at it. Because, for example, there's folks here from the Francisville community obviously, who I know very well, and just going by the title, when they came in today, I was wondering what they were here for, because I didn't realize that that was part of this Model Cities Urban Renewal Area. So I guess I would just add to that, if there's any way to make it somewhat more specific, even mentioning the groups that are -- like in Mr. Redding's testimony, it says the bill 23 authorizes acquisition of 30 properties for several community development projects. Maybe somehow mentioning the 31 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. projects in the title or something, just to alert people that this is a given area that they're interested in, because otherwise I thought we were talking about something around Front and Spring Garden and that's it. I just didn't know. I don't think you can list all the properties obviously, but in the testimony, he talks about, I guess it's, five groups here, including Community Ventures, who I'm well aware of that are involved. So something like that.
I actually have a fact sheet and a map that we probably could include when we submit our testimony in the future. I can show it to you later, and if that's appropriate, we'll just submit that in the future with the testimony. The fact sheet actually outlines each individual project, the 32 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. list of addresses and a map of the urban renewal area.
I'm satisfied only because I know what it's referencing, but if a Councilmember was not as intimately involved as I am, I can understand the area of concern. But I think, at a minimum, that it should be clearly noted where these properties are. Can't the properties actually be listed in the actual bill? Is that problematic? Or does it have to be done as an addendum, as an exhibit?
I can have that discussion with our general counsel and Richie Feder from the City, who worked together drawing up the ordinances.
Because we normally just get the ordinance, particularly when we're in a public hearing, so you would have no way of knowing exactly where those properties are referenced.
You know what I find somewhat interesting is in the third "whereas" clause, the bill 5 actually specifies the properties that will not be acquired. And I would ask why are the properties specifically excluded from the acquisition? Don't we normally only acquire properties that are specifically included in the redevelopment proposals and plans?
I believe that was to a couple of Council -- a couple sessions back we were asked to exclude a property on Girard Avenue and not acquire it.
What they're excluding is, Councilman Clarke, that's the shopping, what everybody hopes is the shopping point, supermarket site, right, on Girard Avenue?
Correct. That was actually -- what happened, in 34 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. the earlier bill, there was an earlier bill that we were attempting to acquire a parcel at 27th and Girard, and the owner of the property came in and said that he was willing to entertain developing the site, and they worked out an agreement between the community and the Redevelopment Authority. And technically, I guess, we had to reference the fact that this particular parcel will not be condemned, because as it stood, it still left it hanging that there was a possibility of condemnation and the developer could not get financing because this was looming over his head. So we asked the Redevelopment Authority to, in very specific terms, indicate in their Board meeting that this property would not be taken as a part of this condemnation package. So that's why that's in there.
35 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Mr. Koonce, in your testimony, you state that one vacant lot will be acquired on behalf of Project H.O.M.E. for the expansion of the parking facility for Comcast Technology Labs. Will you please explain how this is a, quote, "residential," end of quote, or, quote, "related," end of quote, use? I'm just given the explanation of why. It is residential, and the residents train next door; is that it?
Yeah. On the record, it's actually a -- I think it's the 1900 block of Judson Street. There's two phases of transitional housing that were built on that block, and adjacent to that there was a learning facility that was sponsored by Comcast to accommodate the transitional housing. The residents in that particular program were required to participate in an educational and training program as a part of their tenure at the development. So this is in support of that particular 36 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. housing. But it is a residential block. This, fortunately, has Comcast and the individuals step forward and sponsor that particular development.
Any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Sir, you can now approach the witness table. Thank you for your patience. Sir, please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Len Spencer and I'm the owner of 1531 Poplar Street, the property that was just discussed earlier a few minutes ago. I'm a developer and I'm in the process of developing this land that I own. I have 37 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. a zoning approval for a three-story duplex, residential duplex, and I'm waiting to obtain a building permit. I should be -- I should get that next week. And we're in the process of developing our property. We already have a construction loan settled with the bank, and I have all the proper documentation to prove my point.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Sir, if I could ask you, when did you get that zoning? No. Just tell me.
A couple months ago? Okay. How long have you owned the property and what kind of condition has it been in?
I bought this land four months ago, four, four and a 38 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. half months ago.
Right. And as I bought this land, we started to develop architectural drawings and we submitted for a zoning permit to put up a three-story duplex, and we have all the approvals.
Do you know -- I know there's people from the community that can kind of answer this, but what condition has the land been, do you know, before you got it?
Any other questions or comments from members 39 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much for coming in to testify. You've been very patient. Thank you.
Just a question on the disposition of this situation. Will the District Councilperson and the RDA have a discussion?
Part of the problem -- and we'll obviously sit down and discuss it. First of all, we weren't aware that there were any property owners when we first looked at the site that were still around. So the process 40 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. started actually more than a year ago. Now I'm hearing that you have recently purchased this site. So I personally was not aware of it, nor should I have been, because that's just your private transaction. But this is a parcel that we were looking at developing for quite some time, but we'll ask the Redevelopment Authority and the appropriate community development corporation to sit down and discuss the site.
Right. Because I already have everything set and ready to go, and I received the letter --
Well, we're going to get a building permit next week and then we can post all the permits.
Yeah. We have a zoning approval. I have it with me. I 41 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. brought it.
So you posted the notice and you got the property zoned?
Just one question for the RDA. Wouldn't it be prudent for someone to kind of go through and look at the last six months or so of zoning changes for particular properties or building permits that have been pulled so that we can avoid -- I mean, this is one person, but I've been through here before with this stuff and we've had scores of people coming in here, some of them legitimate, most of them not, most of them sitting on properties for 20 years and back on taxes and all the other stuff. But if someone has got a zoning change or has applied for a building 42 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. permit, wouldn't you guys want to know about that before you put your bill 4 together to come in here to acquire?
We would want to know about that. We should check, and we'll institute that in the future.
Councilman Clarke, your light is on. Did you want to be recognized?
Do we have anyone else to testify? Please approach the witness table. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My 43 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. name is Penelope Giles and I'm the Executive Director of the Francisville Neighborhood Development Corporation. We have just released our neighborhood plan that we worked on for a year, months or so. The plan is a 8 comprehensive plan that addresses all of 9 the needs in the community, from housing, 10 market rate, affordable and in between, 11 as well as commercial development. FNDC 12 has recognized this Francisville east 13 project as an integral part to create a 14 balance -- to keep a balance in our 15 community so that we're not overrun by 16 gentrification, but that we actually can 17 build an economically diverse 18 neighborhood. The project is very important. But through the planning project, what we made every effort to do was to include all of the stakeholders, be they private or non-profit, in the planning process and to look at all of the public properties and what the 44 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. interests were, especially with some of the churches and the non-profits, and to try to make sure that we wouldn't get into this kind of situation where people's properties would be taken for a project of this magnitude. Unfortunately, as Councilman Clarke pointed out, it's kind of hard to gauge. You've got people who are purchasing properties during that process that we were not able to bring to the table. We also have some other private developers that have some properties on 15th Street that we're trying to work with to come up with some different solutions. So for the record, I just want to state that FNDC supports this project and we encourage you to move forward with it so that the application for the tax credits can be made, but that we make every effort, as Councilman Clarke said, to work with all of the private owners and especially the church. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church has a lot that 45 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. they've been using as parking. So all of these things were taken into consideration during our planning process, but we will need to work together to come up with some solutions so that we can do this without anybody actually losing-losing.
Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Ms. Giles.
I certainly know the work you've done over there. You've been very conscientious, as has many people, Ms. Bruce and everybody else, Mr. Kaufman, in Francisville. Just for the record, most of it is part of the 15th Ward where I'm the ward leader, so I pay a little attention to that.
Thank 46 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. you. Just a question on the property that the gentleman was up here with. I know every time you have a zoning case, you certainly have your meetings, because I get invited to most of them. Did that generally come to you or were you aware of that particular property?
No. The only time we would engage a private developer is if the project triggered a variance. Then we would get a notice and we would do the community meeting. But apparently I guess maybe he's building to code, because it hasn't come up.
No. But I do want to reiterate that we are very interested in creating an environment in Francisville that's developer friendly to all kinds of housing, because we need it 47 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. all.
I certainly can go on the record -- I know Councilman Clarke can -- that you've worked at that very hard. So thank you.
Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Our next witness. Good morning, sir. Please identify yourself for the record.
I'm Steve Kaufman from Community Ventures, the developer. I'm going to -- I just wanted to show you very quickly --
Why don't you just put it in front of the witness table on the floor.
Okay. Thank you. I hope you can hear me. I wanted to quickly show you the site plan 48 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. here. We're looking north. This is 15th Street. This is 16th Street. Here is Poplar. And there's going to be two components to this, a building largely for seniors, which is 27 units right here and then scattered sites. And then one of the buildings would be going in at 1531 Poplar Street, which is the property the gentleman was talking about, and that's up here. This is a low-incoming housing tax credit development. We have a deadline of December 14th to make an application to the state. So this hearing is one step in us being able to show site control to the state. I just wanted to mention to you that this project economically is sort of finely tuned. We are going to be charging low rents on this building, with the goal of housing as many local seniors on SSI as possible and limited incomes, folks that never qualified for Social Security. There's a big need. To make the numbers work, we need as many of 49 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. these purples as possible, which is the single families. In other words, we've sort of skewed the rents here to serve a real social need here, and that's what is unique about this project. There's going to be six units in this building where the rents are going to be a hundred dollars a month, and another four where the rents will be 250 a month. That's going to be really serving that population. So the long and short of it is, I'm reluctant first to lose any of the purple here or any of the site, because it tends to unhinge what we're doing here and what the social project is.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
I'm just a bit confused. Could you have a seat, because you won't be able to talk without the microphone. 50 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Oh, okay. Because you were talking about the potential loss of properties inhibiting your development, and since we're having a hearing about taking properties, I thought you may be opposed to the building.
And that's one of the projects that will be accomplished as a result of us passing the bill?
Right. This is the major -- this is the acquisition on the 1500 block of Poplar Street. We're the developer, low-income tax credits, 51 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. last affordable housing in Francisville, and it involves the lot that the gentleman was testifying to earlier.
Well, I'm pretty sure we are all for this, so, I mean -- and I'm sure it's all good work. Thank you for your testimony.
Thank you, sir. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? Please approach the witness table. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. Pastor Daniel Sutton. I pastor the Second Pilgrim Baptist Church, which is located on 15th Street, and we do own the very corner of 1500 Poplar Street. I think that a lot of the plans that Francisville, along with other community developers, are putting together are 52 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. wonderful for the community. However, we just were not a part of those plans. We weren't a part of those plans. We did not receive particular invites to certain meetings and certain things of that nature. The plan that just was displayed in front of you today is something that I've just seen for the first time today, for the first time. And a part of that -- a part of me being here today is because I received a letter concerning the ordinance meeting that was given to me about two weeks ago. I just don't understand the lack of communication between these corporations and those who are already existing in the community where that does not take part at, and I just would like a little bit more communication with us, particularly so that if we're in the community, we can be a part of all of those plans and all of these endeavors that we would like to see to be a part 53 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. of. And, once again, today was the first day I've seen any of these things, and I've been at Second Pilgrim since December 2005.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Just a similar question, sir, to what I asked the other gentleman. The land that we're talking about that you own that's included in here, what's the situation on that land now?
The land is, we use it for our community activities 54 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. outside, particularly we do have parking that goes on there and such as like flea markets, our block parties, our -- we use it in that magnitude. However, that's not the extent of what we were looking to kind of do with that particular property. We were trying to work out a negotiation with the gentleman who owns right next to that, which is the funeral home, and we were trying to work out that to acquire that as well to be all a part of it. However, my point is is that it sounds like to me in this whole thing is that, just like the other gentleman here, he had plans and endeavors. While everybody has these plans and endeavors, but there's no one talking to each other concerning all of these things. And since coming into the community in December 2005, I have tried numerous times to set up a meeting with Mr. Darrell Clarke, because I did not meet him. I did not know him, and I wanted to be a part of whatever was going 55 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. on particularly in the community.
Well, I know the Francisville CDC has been pretty active in the last year or so, probably a little longer than that. Have you ever made any contact with them?
Well, the only contact I've had with Francisville is that they used our church to do a particular urban -- it was some type of urban demographic program that they were running on that day and they used our church to kind of base their whole program on that time. But this, what they're talking about today, I've never heard of.
Not since that moment. I believe that might have 56 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. been in June or July.
Because I'm just thinking if you had plans for that land, I would think you would have kind of reached out to them, too.
Well, what I'm saying is, I met with them at that moment between June and July for --
Well, we were going to schedule something a little later on in meetings, but we didn't have -- that particular day they had geared for one particular instance.
You're waiting. He's going to yield to Councilwoman Brown.
So are we 57 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. hearing that you have written documents, written plans that specifically outline what your vision was for the use of that land?
Yes. I do have a vision plan that I had for that particular area, yes.
Any contact with any City agencies, including RDA, who is represented here today, regarding the vision that you had?
So are we hearing that the only professional you reached out to is my colleague, Councilman Clarke?
Yes. That 58 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. was the only person -- my point is, I didn't know of any of these other things that were going on particularly in our community. The community was very desolate when I first arrived. So I didn't know anything that was going on, and my first kind of meeting I wanted to have was with Mr. Clarke so I could find out what might be going on, what can we be a part of, what could we help in. Because after all, I mean, I am coming in new to the community.
Okay. In hearing the concerns you've raised today, are you suggesting that there's no remedy given where we are?
No, no, no. 19 I believe there is a remedy. My point is is that I believe that there just needs to be more communication between these outside agencies as well as the community developments. There needs to be more communication. If I'm made known about certain things, I can become part of it, 59 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. rather than kind of being pushed into a corner in a sense, because that's what it kind of feels like.
To my knowledge, I'm not sure on that. I'm not totally sure. I'm not sure. We are a member of that? Okay. Yes.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
I would like to first of all commend Second Pilgrim. I've had the opportunity to 60 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. interact with you on numerous occasions, and I think earlier in your testimony you said you've been trying to reach out to me, but you've been unable to?
Yes. My secretary has tried numerous times to set up a meeting with you with myself, and it has been to no avail. We haven't had that.
Because that's kind of strange, because I've actually spoken at your church.
December 2005, since December 2005 until now. I didn't know what you looked like. I had to ask who you were.
And I've 61 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. actually had representatives from your church in the meeting as recent as last year to deal with the Arts Garage.
Right, exactly, which I just found out about today. What I'm saying to you is --
So what you're saying is that you personally have not been able to interact with me?
Because you made it sound like somehow I don't have any interaction with members of the church.
All right. I just want to be clear, because I just talked to members of the church as recent 62 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. as two weeks ago at a different function and we were talking about getting together.
Exactly, which is what my trustees have just told me about, that they talked to you, and I kept saying -- I said to them before that day, I said to them after that day I have been attempting to meet you to discuss a whole venture of a few things, but I haven't had that pleasure of meeting you.
All right. Okay. I just didn't want people thinking that I was unwilling to interact with the church, because I know that --
No. I understand you run a very busy schedule. I'm very patient; that's all.
All right. And you've indicated that you have significant plans or proposals for the site?
Correct, in conjunction with being able to acquire 63 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. another part of it.
Have you shared any of these plans with anybody in the community?
Other than people in our church, no. Because I haven't been able to connect with many people in our community. It's a desolate area.
I'm familiar with the area. The reason I say that, because you voiced some concern about these plans not being shared with you, but now you stand here today and say that you have a significant amount of plans to the point of actually having documents and you haven't shared that with anybody in the community.
Well, I'll be quite sure that a lot of people who probably own property in the area will 64 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. probably have some plans for the property that they own. You know, we can't differentiate that. I'm saying that these plans particularly are plans that I'm hearing that are to benefit the community and all of those things, and I'm saying, okay, I haven't been a part of those particular plans. I haven't heard about those particular plans. That's all saying. And I'm asking that we have more -- there be more established communication. The young lady who I just met today for the first time, Ms. Bruce, she was expressing to me how she had a conversation -- they had a meeting two years ago prior to me arriving at the church, which I totally understand, but there was no follow-up there. There was nothing else after that where there were other continual meetings that people went to that we had no clue about. That's all I'm -- and I was asking for more communication, which is what I just said 65 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. to those two women who were sitting back there.
All right. And I suggest that you communicate with the community more about what your proposals are, understanding that it's your private land. And I don't know if whatever you're proposing is just for members of the church or if it's for the broader community, but that goes both ways.
Before you suggest that there's not adequate communication from the broader community in terms of notifying you about what's proposed, I think that similarly you should --
-- reach out and talk to the community about what you're proposing.
Exactly, which is why I wanted to talk to you. 66 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
If I don't know about the different organizations in my community, then I need to reach out to somebody.
And my point to you is that the young lady just explained to me that these are two different projects.
I understand, but if you're a member of the Francisville neighborhood organization, I mean, I know they meet, frankly speaking, sometimes too much, so there's a lot of opportunity to communicate issues at some of those meetings. But I hear you. 67 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. We'll make sure that there are the appropriate lines of communication as we move ahead from both sides of the equation.
And with respect to myself, I'll be more than willing to meet you as the new pastor.
Thank you very much. Any other witnesses? Please approach the witness table. Good morning, sir. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Eugene Saunders. I'm Chairman 68 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. of the Board of Trustees at Second Pilgrim Baptist Church, and I would like to more or less piggyback on what Reverend Sutton has just stated and add a little more information in that regard. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church has been at our location 854 North 15th Street for quite a few years. What we have done throughout the years we have been there, more recently we have maintained that area. We have cleaned up the lots. We have done everything we possibly can to rid the lot in the neighborhood. I have called the district and had the prostitution moved from that neighborhood and done everything we possibly could to maintain that neighborhood. I, as Chairman of the Board of Trustees, did not receive any communication or any notice in reference to the property being possessed by or transferred to the Redevelopment Authority until I received a letter in 69 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. reference to this hearing today. I personally am on the telephone line with the Francisville CDC. I have met Councilman Clarke on several occasions. He has, as he indicated, he has spoken at our church on our trustee meeting or what-have-you, and we were here in his office to discuss some property on Ridge Avenue. So we have met. We have met. But our concern, as the Pastor has stated, is the fact that we have not been notified in reference to this transfer. What we feel -- and I remember when the Model Cities -- I've seen the Model Cities plan for our neighborhood. We have also received a letter of possession of one of our properties, a small property, on the eminent domain for the Model Cities, and what we feel that was happening to us is that we are being squeezed out of our church and our neighborhood. We use that lot now for parking. If the lot is taken away and 70 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. the properties across the street from the church are taken from us and we're not allowed to use anymore, we will have nowhere to park for our members. We have plans and we will get some plans in reference to the property other than a parking lot, but right now we need that property for our parking purposes or we will eventually be squeezed out of that neighborhood. Thank you. I appreciate the time and the effort.
Any questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Our next witness, please approach the witness table.
Good morning again. Penelope Giles, Francisville Neighborhood 71 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Development Corporation. Once again, through our planning process, what we did was, we put together a project leadership committee. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church is on that committee. The secretary, Tonya, I think is her name, Tonya Henry, participated in several meetings. Most recently and more importantly, in June, I believe it was, we had a meeting where we discussed the properties in that area and what would happen to them. This project was the main focus of that meeting. Bill 15 Greenlee was there. They were invited. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church was invited, as was Ms. Bruce, as was all of the various stakeholders in the neighborhood. Second Pilgrim did not attend that meeting. I can produce sign-in sheets that show we had a lot of communication. They did attend some of the project leadership committee meetings and the planning meetings. So they're very much aware. They were aware. And 72 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. we did do our due diligence in terms of making sure that they were aware of the meetings that were going on and giving them an opportunity to participate. They did not participate in that very, very important meeting in June. So that's where the lack of communication is coming in in terms of them not knowing that this project was in the pipeline. Regarding the parking, that was another issue that was discussed in that meeting, and as Bill Greenlee will recall and maybe I could have Steve come up, because the project takes into consideration some lots that back Byrne Street. People for People had some interest in those lots as well to build some structured parking. Parking is a big issue, and that was something that we took into consideration and we tried to bring together all of the folks who could be instrumental in building some structured parking so that we could alleviate some of those problems that 73 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. would be caused when the project was built. So we are looking at that, and we do plan to continue that process to look at how maybe we can come together and build some structured parking so that that's not an issue. And I would also like to mention that the use of that lot, Second Pilgrim's lot, for parking is not a legal use for parking. So that should be taken into consideration as well.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam President. Just quickly, I do remember that meeting in June, Ms. Giles. I do remember that. She's going away from me.
Ms. Giles? 74 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Just one question, if I could. You had said that the church was not represented at that big meeting in June, and, as I said, I do recall that. On some of these other meetings, was this issue brought up? You said that they did have representatives at some meetings.
Yeah. Of course, when you're looking at large developments, you have to take into consideration all of the parties that may be affected, and we did the best that we could to make sure all of those people were notified and had opportunity to attend the meetings. This is why we put together a project leadership committee, because we realize that while we're all -- we may be all working together on our separate goals, at some point you have to come together and figure out who is doing what so that we're not stepping on each other's toes, and that's why we constructed the project leadership 75 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. committee.
Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Please approach the witness table. Kindly identify yourself for the record.
Yes. Good morning. My name is Univee Bruce and I am the President of the Francisville Community Development Corporation. There is a difference in the community. We both -- they have taken on the same name. The only difference is they have an N where we have a C. We are the group that the Reverend had spoke about. We had been working with the church, because this project in reality, in a smaller scale, 76 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been on the books since 1995, and we did talk to the church. We held community meetings at the church to get the input from all of those around in the area. So it has been a long time ongoing. I can understand that this is not the pastor or the agents that we worked with. Although we were together, as the Councilman had said, two years ago when they were talking about the Arts Garage and whatever. We were there to talk about those issues. The issue is and the reason I'm really here today is that I have partnered with Community Ventures since 1990, and our goal and our mission has always been to do safe and affordable housing in Francisville. Francisville now has undergone a gentrification that's really unreal, that houses are going for $599,000. This would be the only entity besides all of the other projects that we have undertaken -- Francisville I, 77 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Francisville IV, we did a homeless project, we did sales units -- that people could remain in the community and afford to remain in the community. So we're in total support of this project, but also that trying to clarify some of this, it's because everybody is moving in a direction, people have changed. So as a result of that, I can understand that the Pastor was left out of this, because I knew that we met with them and they did have a plan under another pastor to do development there, and they did have something written -- in fact, Mr. Koonce can attest to -- that the Pastor was going to buy a lot in that area to let his plan go on as the church envisioned it. But I'm just saying that I think that we as organizations, we as long-term residents need to sit down and, as the Pastor said, tighten up the community, because one thing about our Councilman -- and I have worked with him, I've worked with 78 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Mr. Greenlee for long, long years, and the communication when it breaks down, it does cause confusion and things of that nature. But right now we need to have this project be allowed to go through, because this will be the only entity that senior citizens, working persons and whatever will be allowed to work and worship and live in the community where they so desire. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Just quickly, just a comment to back up what Ms. Bruce said. Certainly I know this area pretty well, as certainly Councilman Clarke does, and certainly the big fear over in that community is that everybody is going to get moved out. So projects like this I think are very important to 79 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. make sure that there still will be places for people, sometimes second, third generation in that community, to live. I kid with Ms. Bruce and Ms. Giles that Francisville has gone through what Fairmount did years ago, and hopefully 8 we've learned how to do it a little 9 better, because a lot of -- there wasn't 10 those kind of protections for the 11 community, and I think a lot of that is 12 needed and I hope that everything gets 13 worked out, but certainly I think this 14 project is very well needed. 15 Thank you. 16
Thank 17 you. 18 Any other questions or comments 19 from members of the Committee? 20 (No response.) 21
Do we 22 have anyone else to testify on this bill? 23 (No response.) 24
25 Seeing no one, I was just handed a note 80 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. that Mr. Louis Cameron wants to testify on Bill No. 070819. Mr. Cameron, please approach the witness table, identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm a little nervous. The property on Kerbaugh Street is a lot. Over the years they used it to park on. The church on Germantown Avenue, they would use it to park their cars. Now sometimes the guy that owns the shop, he has a couple vehicles parked there. I was in the process of trying 81 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. to sell it to the bank, because they said the Redevelopment people were going to come in and, if they secured that property, could cut a better deal with the Redevelopment Department. The reason why I'm here today is because I have to be here and I wanted to say if the Redevelopment Authority and myself could come up with a reasonable price on, say, a property, I'll be more than willing to, if they come out and give an appraisal or a fair market value, I'm happy with the ordinance.
Hi. Thank you for coming in today. You've owned this since 1987?
And other than the parking, you said that the church sometimes parks on it?
Yeah. Well, they just use it for parking, because I never 82 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. bothered everybody, because there wasn't enough parking in the area until the church started accumulating some of the other property and they tore it down.
Nazarene, we've actually worked with them to help them acquire lots of the lots so that they can have parking. Have you been maintaining this lot, Mr. Cameron?
Well, actually, there really wasn't that much for me -- I would check on it periodically, whether there's no paper, no debris on it. All it was was vehicles that parked. Like guys coming from work, they just went up there and parked their car and in the morning, they left, and there wasn't that much to do.
Okay. 83 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. All right.
Listen, I want to say thank you very much. I appreciate your time, and stay in touch.
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify on any of the bills that we just heard? (No response.)
I already testified a little bit ago. I was wondering if I could say a couple words.
I'm also a developer, and I believe that in this country, anyone should have the right to develop their own land, and I don't believe it's against the law. And if 84 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. there is a development going on, obviously they have to do what they have to do. But I'm a developer as well, and being smaller doesn't really mean anything. I have the same rights as everybody else to develop their own property.
I don't think anybody indicated that you don't. And, again, I want to thank you for your patience. I know you've been waiting to testify. We thank you for your courtesy and your patience, and we will give this every consideration. Thank you.
This will conclude our public hearing. We will now go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke regarding Bill No. 060633.
Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, I make 85 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. a motion on an amendment to Bill No. 3 060633. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment be adopted on Bill No. 060633. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendment is adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill No. 20 060633 as amended be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. (Duly seconded.) 86 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 4 060633 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation as amended; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Bill No. 070819.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 070819 be reported out of this Committee favorably and a request made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It 87 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 070819 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee regarding Bill No. 070827.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill 19 No. 070827 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and, further, that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It 88 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 070827 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. And this concludes our public meeting. Thank you. (Committee on Rules adjourned at 11:50 a.m.) - - - 89 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on November 13, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)