Not since that moment. I believe that might have 56 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. been in June or July.
Because I'm just thinking if you had plans for that land, I would think you would have kind of reached out to them, too.
Well, what I'm saying is, I met with them at that moment between June and July for --
Well, we were going to schedule something a little later on in meetings, but we didn't have -- that particular day they had geared for one particular instance.
You're waiting. He's going to yield to Councilwoman Brown.
So are we 57 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. hearing that you have written documents, written plans that specifically outline what your vision was for the use of that land?
Yes. I do have a vision plan that I had for that particular area, yes.
Any contact with any City agencies, including RDA, who is represented here today, regarding the vision that you had?
So are we hearing that the only professional you reached out to is my colleague, Councilman Clarke?
Yes. That 58 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. was the only person -- my point is, I didn't know of any of these other things that were going on particularly in our community. The community was very desolate when I first arrived. So I didn't know anything that was going on, and my first kind of meeting I wanted to have was with Mr. Clarke so I could find out what might be going on, what can we be a part of, what could we help in. Because after all, I mean, I am coming in new to the community.
Okay. In hearing the concerns you've raised today, are you suggesting that there's no remedy given where we are?
No, no, no. 19 I believe there is a remedy. My point is is that I believe that there just needs to be more communication between these outside agencies as well as the community developments. There needs to be more communication. If I'm made known about certain things, I can become part of it, 59 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. rather than kind of being pushed into a corner in a sense, because that's what it kind of feels like.
To my knowledge, I'm not sure on that. I'm not totally sure. I'm not sure. We are a member of that? Okay. Yes.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
I would like to first of all commend Second Pilgrim. I've had the opportunity to 60 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. interact with you on numerous occasions, and I think earlier in your testimony you said you've been trying to reach out to me, but you've been unable to?
Yes. My secretary has tried numerous times to set up a meeting with you with myself, and it has been to no avail. We haven't had that.
Because that's kind of strange, because I've actually spoken at your church.
December 2005, since December 2005 until now. I didn't know what you looked like. I had to ask who you were.
And I've 61 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. actually had representatives from your church in the meeting as recent as last year to deal with the Arts Garage.
Right, exactly, which I just found out about today. What I'm saying to you is --
So what you're saying is that you personally have not been able to interact with me?
Because you made it sound like somehow I don't have any interaction with members of the church.
All right. I just want to be clear, because I just talked to members of the church as recent 62 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. as two weeks ago at a different function and we were talking about getting together.
Exactly, which is what my trustees have just told me about, that they talked to you, and I kept saying -- I said to them before that day, I said to them after that day I have been attempting to meet you to discuss a whole venture of a few things, but I haven't had that pleasure of meeting you.
All right. Okay. I just didn't want people thinking that I was unwilling to interact with the church, because I know that --
No. I understand you run a very busy schedule. I'm very patient; that's all.
All right. And you've indicated that you have significant plans or proposals for the site?
Correct, in conjunction with being able to acquire 63 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. another part of it.
Have you shared any of these plans with anybody in the community?
Other than people in our church, no. Because I haven't been able to connect with many people in our community. It's a desolate area.
I'm familiar with the area. The reason I say that, because you voiced some concern about these plans not being shared with you, but now you stand here today and say that you have a significant amount of plans to the point of actually having documents and you haven't shared that with anybody in the community.
Well, I'll be quite sure that a lot of people who probably own property in the area will 64 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. probably have some plans for the property that they own. You know, we can't differentiate that. I'm saying that these plans particularly are plans that I'm hearing that are to benefit the community and all of those things, and I'm saying, okay, I haven't been a part of those particular plans. I haven't heard about those particular plans. That's all saying. And I'm asking that we have more -- there be more established communication. The young lady who I just met today for the first time, Ms. Bruce, she was expressing to me how she had a conversation -- they had a meeting two years ago prior to me arriving at the church, which I totally understand, but there was no follow-up there. There was nothing else after that where there were other continual meetings that people went to that we had no clue about. That's all I'm -- and I was asking for more communication, which is what I just said 65 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. to those two women who were sitting back there.
All right. And I suggest that you communicate with the community more about what your proposals are, understanding that it's your private land. And I don't know if whatever you're proposing is just for members of the church or if it's for the broader community, but that goes both ways.
Before you suggest that there's not adequate communication from the broader community in terms of notifying you about what's proposed, I think that similarly you should --
-- reach out and talk to the community about what you're proposing.
Exactly, which is why I wanted to talk to you. 66 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
If I don't know about the different organizations in my community, then I need to reach out to somebody.
And my point to you is that the young lady just explained to me that these are two different projects.
I understand, but if you're a member of the Francisville neighborhood organization, I mean, I know they meet, frankly speaking, sometimes too much, so there's a lot of opportunity to communicate issues at some of those meetings. But I hear you. 67 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. We'll make sure that there are the appropriate lines of communication as we move ahead from both sides of the equation.
And with respect to myself, I'll be more than willing to meet you as the new pastor.
Thank you very much. Any other witnesses? Please approach the witness table. Good morning, sir. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning. My name is Eugene Saunders. I'm Chairman 68 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. of the Board of Trustees at Second Pilgrim Baptist Church, and I would like to more or less piggyback on what Reverend Sutton has just stated and add a little more information in that regard. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church has been at our location 854 North 15th Street for quite a few years. What we have done throughout the years we have been there, more recently we have maintained that area. We have cleaned up the lots. We have done everything we possibly can to rid the lot in the neighborhood. I have called the district and had the prostitution moved from that neighborhood and done everything we possibly could to maintain that neighborhood. I, as Chairman of the Board of Trustees, did not receive any communication or any notice in reference to the property being possessed by or transferred to the Redevelopment Authority until I received a letter in 69 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. reference to this hearing today. I personally am on the telephone line with the Francisville CDC. I have met Councilman Clarke on several occasions. He has, as he indicated, he has spoken at our church on our trustee meeting or what-have-you, and we were here in his office to discuss some property on Ridge Avenue. So we have met. We have met. But our concern, as the Pastor has stated, is the fact that we have not been notified in reference to this transfer. What we feel -- and I remember when the Model Cities -- I've seen the Model Cities plan for our neighborhood. We have also received a letter of possession of one of our properties, a small property, on the eminent domain for the Model Cities, and what we feel that was happening to us is that we are being squeezed out of our church and our neighborhood. We use that lot now for parking. If the lot is taken away and 70 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. the properties across the street from the church are taken from us and we're not allowed to use anymore, we will have nowhere to park for our members. We have plans and we will get some plans in reference to the property other than a parking lot, but right now we need that property for our parking purposes or we will eventually be squeezed out of that neighborhood. Thank you. I appreciate the time and the effort.
Any questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Our next witness, please approach the witness table.
Good morning again. Penelope Giles, Francisville Neighborhood 71 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Development Corporation. Once again, through our planning process, what we did was, we put together a project leadership committee. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church is on that committee. The secretary, Tonya, I think is her name, Tonya Henry, participated in several meetings. Most recently and more importantly, in June, I believe it was, we had a meeting where we discussed the properties in that area and what would happen to them. This project was the main focus of that meeting. Bill 15 Greenlee was there. They were invited. Second Pilgrim Baptist Church was invited, as was Ms. Bruce, as was all of the various stakeholders in the neighborhood. Second Pilgrim did not attend that meeting. I can produce sign-in sheets that show we had a lot of communication. They did attend some of the project leadership committee meetings and the planning meetings. So they're very much aware. They were aware. And 72 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. we did do our due diligence in terms of making sure that they were aware of the meetings that were going on and giving them an opportunity to participate. They did not participate in that very, very important meeting in June. So that's where the lack of communication is coming in in terms of them not knowing that this project was in the pipeline. Regarding the parking, that was another issue that was discussed in that meeting, and as Bill Greenlee will recall and maybe I could have Steve come up, because the project takes into consideration some lots that back Byrne Street. People for People had some interest in those lots as well to build some structured parking. Parking is a big issue, and that was something that we took into consideration and we tried to bring together all of the folks who could be instrumental in building some structured parking so that we could alleviate some of those problems that 73 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. would be caused when the project was built. So we are looking at that, and we do plan to continue that process to look at how maybe we can come together and build some structured parking so that that's not an issue. And I would also like to mention that the use of that lot, Second Pilgrim's lot, for parking is not a legal use for parking. So that should be taken into consideration as well.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam President. Just quickly, I do remember that meeting in June, Ms. Giles. I do remember that. She's going away from me.
Ms. Giles? 74 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
Just one question, if I could. You had said that the church was not represented at that big meeting in June, and, as I said, I do recall that. On some of these other meetings, was this issue brought up? You said that they did have representatives at some meetings.
Yeah. Of course, when you're looking at large developments, you have to take into consideration all of the parties that may be affected, and we did the best that we could to make sure all of those people were notified and had opportunity to attend the meetings. This is why we put together a project leadership committee, because we realize that while we're all -- we may be all working together on our separate goals, at some point you have to come together and figure out who is doing what so that we're not stepping on each other's toes, and that's why we constructed the project leadership 75 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. committee.
Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Please approach the witness table. Kindly identify yourself for the record.
Yes. Good morning. My name is Univee Bruce and I am the President of the Francisville Community Development Corporation. There is a difference in the community. We both -- they have taken on the same name. The only difference is they have an N where we have a C. We are the group that the Reverend had spoke about. We had been working with the church, because this project in reality, in a smaller scale, 76 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been on the books since 1995, and we did talk to the church. We held community meetings at the church to get the input from all of those around in the area. So it has been a long time ongoing. I can understand that this is not the pastor or the agents that we worked with. Although we were together, as the Councilman had said, two years ago when they were talking about the Arts Garage and whatever. We were there to talk about those issues. The issue is and the reason I'm really here today is that I have partnered with Community Ventures since 1990, and our goal and our mission has always been to do safe and affordable housing in Francisville. Francisville now has undergone a gentrification that's really unreal, that houses are going for $599,000. This would be the only entity besides all of the other projects that we have undertaken -- Francisville I, 77 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Francisville IV, we did a homeless project, we did sales units -- that people could remain in the community and afford to remain in the community. So we're in total support of this project, but also that trying to clarify some of this, it's because everybody is moving in a direction, people have changed. So as a result of that, I can understand that the Pastor was left out of this, because I knew that we met with them and they did have a plan under another pastor to do development there, and they did have something written -- in fact, Mr. Koonce can attest to -- that the Pastor was going to buy a lot in that area to let his plan go on as the church envisioned it. But I'm just saying that I think that we as organizations, we as long-term residents need to sit down and, as the Pastor said, tighten up the community, because one thing about our Councilman -- and I have worked with him, I've worked with 78 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. Mr. Greenlee for long, long years, and the communication when it breaks down, it does cause confusion and things of that nature. But right now we need to have this project be allowed to go through, because this will be the only entity that senior citizens, working persons and whatever will be allowed to work and worship and live in the community where they so desire. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Just quickly, just a comment to back up what Ms. Bruce said. Certainly I know this area pretty well, as certainly Councilman Clarke does, and certainly the big fear over in that community is that everybody is going to get moved out. So projects like this I think are very important to 79 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. make sure that there still will be places for people, sometimes second, third generation in that community, to live. I kid with Ms. Bruce and Ms. Giles that Francisville has gone through what Fairmount did years ago, and hopefully 8 we've learned how to do it a little 9 better, because a lot of -- there wasn't 10 those kind of protections for the 11 community, and I think a lot of that is 12 needed and I hope that everything gets 13 worked out, but certainly I think this 14 project is very well needed. 15 Thank you. 16
Thank 17 you. 18 Any other questions or comments 19 from members of the Committee? 20 (No response.) 21
Do we 22 have anyone else to testify on this bill? 23 (No response.) 24
25 Seeing no one, I was just handed a note 80 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. that Mr. Louis Cameron wants to testify on Bill No. 070819. Mr. Cameron, please approach the witness table, identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm a little nervous. The property on Kerbaugh Street is a lot. Over the years they used it to park on. The church on Germantown Avenue, they would use it to park their cars. Now sometimes the guy that owns the shop, he has a couple vehicles parked there. I was in the process of trying 81 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. to sell it to the bank, because they said the Redevelopment people were going to come in and, if they secured that property, could cut a better deal with the Redevelopment Department. The reason why I'm here today is because I have to be here and I wanted to say if the Redevelopment Authority and myself could come up with a reasonable price on, say, a property, I'll be more than willing to, if they come out and give an appraisal or a fair market value, I'm happy with the ordinance.
Hi. Thank you for coming in today. You've owned this since 1987?
And other than the parking, you said that the church sometimes parks on it?
Yeah. Well, they just use it for parking, because I never 82 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. bothered everybody, because there wasn't enough parking in the area until the church started accumulating some of the other property and they tore it down.
Nazarene, we've actually worked with them to help them acquire lots of the lots so that they can have parking. Have you been maintaining this lot, Mr. Cameron?
Well, actually, there really wasn't that much for me -- I would check on it periodically, whether there's no paper, no debris on it. All it was was vehicles that parked. Like guys coming from work, they just went up there and parked their car and in the morning, they left, and there wasn't that much to do.
Okay. 83 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. All right.
Listen, I want to say thank you very much. I appreciate your time, and stay in touch.
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify on any of the bills that we just heard? (No response.)
I already testified a little bit ago. I was wondering if I could say a couple words.
I'm also a developer, and I believe that in this country, anyone should have the right to develop their own land, and I don't believe it's against the law. And if 84 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. there is a development going on, obviously they have to do what they have to do. But I'm a developer as well, and being smaller doesn't really mean anything. I have the same rights as everybody else to develop their own property.
I don't think anybody indicated that you don't. And, again, I want to thank you for your patience. I know you've been waiting to testify. We thank you for your courtesy and your patience, and we will give this every consideration. Thank you.
This will conclude our public hearing. We will now go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke regarding Bill No. 060633.
Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, I make 85 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. a motion on an amendment to Bill No. 3 060633. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment be adopted on Bill No. 060633. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendment is adopted. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill No. 20 060633 as amended be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for rules suspension as to allow reading at the next session of Council. (Duly seconded.) 86 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC.
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 4 060633 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation as amended; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Bill No. 070819.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 070819 be reported out of this Committee favorably and a request made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It 87 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 070819 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee regarding Bill No. 070827.
Thank you, Madam President. I move that Bill 19 No. 070827 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and, further, that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
It 88 11/13/07 - RULES - BILL 060633, ETC. has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 3 070827 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation; further, that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. And this concludes our public meeting. Thank you. (Committee on Rules adjourned at 11:50 a.m.) - - - 89 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on November 13, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)