COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, 3/13/01 10:21 a.m. - - - BILL 010001 - Adopting Capital Program for the six fiscal years 2002 through 2007, inclusive. BILL 010002 - Adopting Fiscal '02 Capital Budget. BILL 010003 - Amending wage and net profits tax by decreasing the rates of the tax. BILL 010004 - Amending business privilege taxes by decreasing rates tax based on gross receipts. BILL 010005 - Adopting FY '02 Operating Budget. BILL 010011 - To further authorize Board of Ed. to impose tax on real estate within Philadelphia. BILL 010012 - To further authorize Board of Ed. to impose tax on net income from real property. BILL 010013 - To further authorize Board of Ed. to impose tax on use or occupancy of real estate within School District of Philadelphia. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I N D E X Office of Housing and Community Development John Kromer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Debra McColloch . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 Recreation Department Vic Richard, Commissioner . . . . . . . . . . 59 Carlton Williams, Deputy Commissioner . . . . 62 Josephine Mangano, Admin. Services Director 67 School District of Philadelphia Deidre Farmbry, Chief Academic Officer. . . . 81 Pedro Ramos, School Board President . . . . . 92 Rhonda Chatzkel, CFO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 101 Phil Goldsmith, Interim CEO . . . . . . . . . 105 Tom McGlinchey, COO . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109 Jennifer Plummer-Davis, Director of PCN . . . 140 3 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No.'s 010001, 010002, 010003, 010004, 010005, 010011, 010012 and 010013. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read titles of the bills.
Bill No. 010001, an ordinance to adopt the Capital Program for the six fiscal years 2002 through 2007, inclusive. Bill No. 010002, an ordinance to adopt a Fiscal 2002 Capital Budget. Bill No. 010003, an ordinance amending Chapter 19-1500 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Wage and Net Profits Tax," by decreasing the rates of the tax. Bill No. 010004, an ordinance amending Chapter 19-2600 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Business Privilege Taxes," by decreasing the rates of the tax based upon gross receipts. Bill No. 010005, an ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2002. Bill No. 010011, an ordinance amending 4 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Chapter 19-1800 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "School Tax Authorization," by amending Section 4 19-1801 to further authorize the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia to impose a tax on real estate within the City of Philadelphia. Bill No. 010012, an ordinance amending Chapter 19-1800 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "School Tax Authorization," by amending Section 11 19-1804 to further authorize the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia to impose a tax on net income from real property, tangible and intangible, personal property of residents of the School District of Philadelphia. And Bill No. 010013, an ordinance 17 amending Chapter 19-1800 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "School Tax Authorization," by amending Section 19-1806 to further authorize the Board of Education of the School District of Philadelphia to impose tax on the use or occupancy of real estate within the School District of Philadelphia.
Thank you. Our first call-back witness this morning is John Kromer from OHCD. 5 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING (Witness comes forward.)
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Kromer, unfortunately I missed your testimony last time. I was down in South Philadelphia, in the Council President's District, on a universal tour with the HUD secretary, but I did have a few questions. First, I wanted to thank you for your inclusion of Bill No. 546 in the executive order within the preliminary plan and for your commitment to participation and commission. Last year at this time, as I began to raise issues of how we leverage private investment from our investment in community developed, I posed a question to you, How much private dollars are leveraged from our community block grant spending? I'm not sure we ever got an answer to that question. But as we begin to organize this 6 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING commission and the commission takes form and begin to look at how to leverage private investment from depository banks and CDBG spending and land reuse plans and the creation of the Philadelphia CDFI fund, I have requested from the Commerce Department and PIDC and PCDC that they provide those numbers for me in terms of how much private money is leveraged. PIDC has already complied with that request and essentially has given me figures over the last 10-year period that say that they leveraged $6.01 for every dollar in public lending. They basically have said they have gone from a low year of $1.40 per dollar to a high year of $9.11 per dollar. I was wondering, do you track those type of figures on an annual basis at OHCD? And can you provide similar information for me over the last ten years?
We can definitely provide the information. We don't track the performance in the same way, but I don't see any problem with providing the information for the last five or so years. It would be easy to do. I'm not sure how we would it with regard to the information from 7 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING ten years ago, but I think we could do reasonably well. As you know, the Community Development Block Grant funds a whole range of housing activities. Some of them don't leverage any dollars. For example, a basic systems repair grant to replace a heater, no leveraging at all. Other programs leverage quite a bit of funding. Every settlement assistance grant of $800 leverages a mortgage, and the median is 35,000 or so. So that's a good leveraging. And there are a variety of other forms of leveraging. I think we could quantify that fairly readily, meaning, you know, next two weeks, and give you a response to that inquiry.
Okay, thank you. If you could provide that information through the Chair for Community Development Block Grant programming in general and then specifically for housing programs.
Secondly, pursuant to Bill No. 716, I have made this request, and as you know, OHCD currently spends approximately 8 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING 10 to 15 percent of its Community Development Block Grant budget on economic development activity, and you know that the Philadelphia Code reads that we cannot spend more than percent on 6 economic development activity that benefits low- 7 and moderate-income people. You know I seek to 8 expand that. 9 For the record, in light of the 10 Neighborhood Transformation Initiative and as we 11 are revisiting all of our community and economic 12 development policies, what portion of community 13 development funding or strategy do you think 14 should be dedicated toward economic development 15 activity? I know in your book that you released, 16 you talk how about after 25 years of massively 17 investing in housing activities, we have not 18 changed the economic condition of the people or 19 neighborhoods in many of the places that we've 20 invested in. 21 How do you think we should revisit that 22 strategy in terms of percentage of economic 23 development activity? 24
I think the -- of course, 25 this question is one for the Mayor and the 9 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Commerce Director and others to resolve. Let me say first, I don't think the amounts spent on economic development currently is excessive; it certainly is in line with what other cities are spending in terms of making a division of the block grant between housing and economic development. And this year, with the proposed Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, there appears to be an opportunity to bring substantial new resources into the housing picture. So I don't think that the current division is unrealistic and frequently is unreasonable, and frequently there are good opportunities to make linkages between the housing piece and the economic development piece, and I feel those linkages are being made effectively now.
Well, beyond public resources that might be available, my real question is as a matter of strategy, where should we be investing if we're seeking to leverage dollars from both private housing and economic activity? Do you really believe that we should be invested in housing development activity at a 10 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING ratio of 10-to-1 or 8-to-1 or 6-to-1? Or should it be something around 3-to-1 in terms of housing versus economic development activity?
I guess at this point, I could say that I think the allocation of resources is appropriate now for a city like Philadelphia. A reassessment of the overall housing policy and strategies is currently being conducted by the reinvestment fund at the request of the Mayor's Office, and I'm expecting that some commentary and recommendations will emerge this month as a result of that analysis. But to me-- and clearly, there are a number of ways to allocate to different activities, but I think we've shown, and can show, that the funds that are allocated to housing are being used in a way that is responsive to the market opportunities that you've been focusing on and that we're pursuing those opportunities well and also leveraging non-public dollars pretty effectively.
This is the last thing. I guess what I'm saying is, even as look 11 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING at reinvestment funds analysis that's forthcoming, you can also look at the reinvestment fund and how it's changed its own operations in terms of being massively invested in housing to diversifying. I believe that they are the leading funder of charter schools, a leading funder in day-cares, a funder of small businesses, and now even provide venture capital. They have expanded what they do tremendously in terms of diversification, and I might suggest that probably their recommendation is going to be an increase in economic development activity.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
You know, we've talking about this whole issue of predatory 12 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING lending for some time, and I hear there are some efforts in your office to fund some programs for predatory lending abatement?
There's been a lot of discussion about the numerous issues that are a part of the predatory lending concern, and a lot of the discussion that has concerned -- has been conducted has focused on the issue of financing for home improvement loans.
That doesn't cover the entire issue of predatory lending, which frequently, as I understand it, also relates to credit card debt and other kinds of personal debt. But what a number of participants in the dialogue, including people from CLS and ACORN and others, have said is that if we could find a way to create a vehicle that provides home improvement financing to people whose credit, for whatever reason, doesn't qualify them for a Title improvement loan, who are attracted by the opportunity to borrow quickly to address, in many cases, a critical need, that would be great. So can't the City do something to address that 13 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING opportunity.
And currently, there is a program, the Phil Loan Program, which is perfectly good and has provided a lot of benefit around the City, but it's not fast enough, it can't compete with the products that are out on the market now.
And it's not available to people with the level of credit that gets them into trouble with the predatory lenders. So as part of the discussion is focused on, Can we create something that's like Phil Loan, except faster, possibly a City-insured program, possibly something that's linked to Fannie Mae or the secondary market so that people who are now experiencing a need for home improvements can come to this program that we support, that involves lenders that have taken the pledge to comply with the standards that we think are appropriate, that provides them quickly with the money that they need. So that's one piece, and that discussion is ongoing. The other discussion is about the more 14 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING immediate need to help people out of a jam, people that have been victimized by predatory lenders, who need a work-out plan and looking at the models in other cities, which you've heard mentioned repeatedly, and determining whether the Chicago or the Boston program or some other program could be replicated here, again, in collaboration with Fannie Mae or some of the others in the secondary market to help people get out of the jam that they're in now.
So those two issues are currently under the focus of discussion of financing. There is no program that's been mapped out, but we, along with the advocates and the agencies that have been involved, as well as the Law Department, have committed to working on both of these issues in the hope that by the start of the fiscal year, we'll have a couple of programs in place or something much more tangible to present to you possibly -- and possibly to link some of this financing with the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative funds.
Well, when we were 15 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING doing Bill 715, and you had representation on the drafting committee, we talked about your department being the department that would enforce the bill. And, of course, the Law Department wrote back and said, Well, we can't set up an entity like that. But we weren't setting up an entity; we were just giving you the responsibility for overseeing whatever enforcement powers came out of the bill. I mean, how do you view position of the Law Department.
I think the last time I was here testifying on the bill, the draft of the bill, which I think has been unchanged, was responsive to all of the concerns that OHCD had raised. So the bill, as written, I believe, is something that we can deal with.
I can't answer for all of the other issues that may have been raised by the Law Department and others.
I was only asking as it relates to your department, not the --
That's right, yes. Speaking for my department, we're on board. 16 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
What we can do, and what I think we need to do, is move ahead in coordination with you and your staff and all of the others to do as much as we can now and not to sit and wait for the bill. I think that would support the spirit of the bill to try to move on issues like these financing issues and get them in place as quickly as we can, given the urgency of the problem.
Maybe you haven't seen the letter, and I'll talk to you about it, the Law Department letter.
'Cause the portion where we wanted you to be the enforcing agency does not create a new department; it would just be a new responsibility for your department, but we'll talk to you about.
Thank you. 17 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Mr. Kromer, a couple years ago, actually in the last administration, and I think Mr. Basillon, from the Redevelopment Authority, he was the Chair at the time, was very concerned about the cost of housing. And I think either informally or formally, there were some meetings initiated to discuss how to get those housing costs down because they continued to go up 125, 150,000 per unit, and we were selling them for, like, 40, 45, and it just didn't seem the appropriate thing to do. What came out of that?
The policy that the Redevelopment Authority adopted -- and we can provide the written form of this -- I think was very effective. It called for development proposals that don't meet the federally- established 221(d)(3) cost standards, which are the standards that HUD uses for some of its 18 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING program and the PHFA also uses for the tax credit financing. Ventures that exceeded those standards would have to be bid out or offered to other contractors, offered competitively so that there would be an opportunity to look at other qualified contractors' bids to see if there was an opportunity to select another contractor other than the one proposed to get the cost down. I think that's worked reasonably well in terms of in some cases getting the price down, and in other cases, where the price can't come down, showing that the effort was made to do that and that the effort was unsuccessful. Frankly, in the 5th District, but not only in the 5th District, there is an overriding problem of big, older buildings with large bedrooms and a history of vacancy and deterioration, and there is a limit to what any cost control policy can do with respect to those buildings. If the building is strategically located, if it's an anchor on a block or in a neighborhood, then the City has to make a decision about whether to pay a high cost per unit to rehabilitate or whether to let the building go. 19 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Well, I think as a result of that, the older, rehabilitated types of initiative, we had kind of gotten away from that wherever we could, and we started with this new construction policy, and those prices continue to escalate. And I'm wondering, is there things other than simply rebidding the particular job to get the cost down or other things that we can do associated with that. As an example, I know in some of the units that we did, the simple fact that we made a decision to do make basements as opposed to building on slab escalated the cost, not only initially, but we had to actually come back because there were water problems. In our policy, as it relates to new construction as we move ahead, will there be any thought given to the possibility of not doing basements in some of these areas, particularly areas where we know we have a high water table such as the Cecil B. Moore area, but yet, we've made a decision to go ahead and build basements anyway? Are we looking at those types of things? 20 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
I think deleting a basement is an excellent opportunity. I think in terms -- frequently, costs get reduced in the process of underwriting; that is, through the process in which the Redevelopment Authority staff just scrutinize every single item and argue some of those items down. One thing that I could do would be to show you how that underwriting process has been applied to several projects around the City and show you the resulting cost changes to give you a sense of how that's worked in practice. I do think the eliminating the basement opportunity is one of a few larger opportunities we've got.
Mm-hmm. With respects to modular housing, have we looked at that again seriously? I know when the former mayor came in, there was a serious discussion about modular housing. A couple of these suppliers wanted the City to guarantee a number of units, we said we couldn't do that. Are we looking at that again as we move ahead, particularly with this Neighborhood 21 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Transformation program that will potentially clear acres and miles and miles of land, the possibility of looking at modular housing, and even the possibility of doing a modular housing factory in the City of Philadelphia so we can, in fact, have some control over the --
From OHCD's standpoint, I haven't looked at the issue recently, partly because OHCD isn't anticipating funding large-scale development anytime in the foreseeable future. I think the shorter-term large-scale development opportunities are at the Philadelphia Housing Authority, and that there might be an opportunity to consider the economic benefits of taking a modular housing approach. Even in looking through the Mayor's proposed Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, I see a lot of funding for preservation, which I think is great, but I don't see a big opportunity for large-scale housing development. That's not to say we shouldn't look at it again, and there may be a combination of public housing, a limited amount of OHCD housing, and 22 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING some market-rate housing that might make the case for modular convincing this time around, but I haven't look at it recently.
You say that you're not looking -- OHCD is not looking to do any large-scale housing developments in the foreseeable future?
What do you call "large-scale"? I mean, is it 150 units, 75?
More than 50 units of housing is large by OHCD's standards, although there are, as you know, 70- and 75-unit ventures. The majority of the CDBG-funded ventures are fewer than 50.
When you say "foreseeable future," are you talking about this this fiscal year?
I actually have a couple of them at least planned in my mind that I would like to do above 50.
Mm-hmm. I'm not going to 23 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING say we'll never consider it, but for the way things look now, the opportunity seems limited. Again, we should come back to issues like that, and I haven't recently, and I'd be glad to reopen that and have some further discussion of that.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
I'm sorry I didn't have the pleasure of the opportunity to be with you when you were here originally during the first part of the budget process, so I'm grateful to have the opportunity today. What is -- at the moment, could you give us an overview or an explanation of what is the City's housing policy?
The City's housing policy is described in the Consolidated Plan, which has 24 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING been published in its first version as the Preliminary Plan last month. And in the Consolidated Plan, there is a description of the policy bases for assigning the Community Development Block Grant funding and the home funding that is really the major resource that the City has available for housing. And various goals and priorities are specified in the plan.
Okay, but I mean, again, I guess, in somewhat brief terms, I mean, overall, what's the goal, what's the mission of the office? What's our basic game plan and strategy in dealing with housing throughout the City of Philadelphia?
The basic mission of the Office of Housing and Community Development, which has served as the City's housing agency, is to strengthen -- stabilize and strengthen the Philadelphia neighborhood economy, and what that means from my perspective is, where there are opportunities, build new housing, rehabilitate vacant housing, but also where there's need and opportunity to preserve existing housing through home repair programs and through programs which 25 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING promote the private real estate market, such as the counseling and settlement assistance programs.
Okay. And would you say that we have a variety of direct services and outreach programs pretty much spread throughout the City in its various neighborhoods and the socioeconomic characteristics of a variety of places throughout the City?
We have a variety programs. Some would say the variety isn't wide enough. For example, we don't fund public facilities as some other cities do. And we have a reasonable geographic distribution for many of the major programs. The basic systems program, for example, the settlement grant program, for example, are relatively well-distributed geographically. Other programs don't have that level of geographic distribution. As we have discussed previously, a lot of the low-income housing tax credit development is focussed in areas such as North and West Philadelphia, primarily the 5th and the 3rd Districts. On the other hand, the City, through OHCD, has increasingly been making commitments to 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Hope Six development by PHA. And we made a major commitment in the 1st District for King Plaza and have committed, through the Capital Program, to Schuylkill Falls. So in some respects, it's an even distribution; in others, it's not even.
What's our policy, again, throughout the City with regard to preservation and maintenance? And how well do we, I guess, promote and market and inform people of the variety of programs that we have, again, throughout the City?
The preservation and maintenance programs, I think, are critical to the future of the City's neighborhoods. The level of Community Development Block Grant funding for these programs has increased substantially over the years, and I believe there is a lot of community awareness of these programs. There could be more. And, again, as we discussed last year, there could be a more concerted outreach on the part of my office and other agencies that are involved to get more people involved in the planning process and let them know about these 27 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING programs. The really critical problem associated with the preservation programs is a lack of, or limitations of, resources. The basic system repair program, for example, has had its funding cut in half as a result of decreases in State funding to the City. And that resource problem, I think, is really central to preservation and maintenance. That's why I'm very encouraged to have seen in the initial material about the Mayor's Neighborhood Transformation Program a substantial amount of funding that will be used for just purpose that purpose -- preservation and maintenance.
Let me go back for one second. You said that the basic systems program was cut as a result of what?
That program was funded by the State? I thought it got all of its funding from the CDBG.
The Tier component of 28 1 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the program, which is the most active component of the program, has been funded for most of the past decade from the State Department of Community and Economic Development. And the reason for that is that the State does not require the level of documentation from a person applying for the program that is associated with the City -- with the Community Development Block Grant funding.
Let me just try to understand this. We have, I guess, the opportunity, if you will, to get these dollars from the State for a particular part of the program.
Okay. Now, if that resource wasn't available, I'm assuming then you would then use CDBG funds for that part of the program?
And so, I mean, that was a policy decision to use that particular funding source to fund -- what is it? Is it Tier or Tier 1 and 2. 25
So we made a policy decision to use a particular funding source to fund Tier 1.
And so whatever happens with that funding source, although we're not apparently required to use that funding resource for Tier 1, whatever happens with that funding source, therefore, happens to Tier 1? Is that the way this works?
Why don't we make up the shortfall with the CDBG funds that we're not using because we're accessing some other funding source?
Why would we cut, or allow for a cut, in the most used component just because a particular funding source, which we are not required to utilize, happens to make that 30 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING cut to the City? Why would we do that?
Well, that's just what we have done in the years in which the cuts began. Four or five years ago, we filled in the gap with CDBG funds or Section 108 funds. This year, we had hoped to get a little bit more State funding; we weren't successful. And there will be a proposed approach to filling that gap again during the coming fiscal year that I'll be presenting to Council.
The cut was in the allocation of funding from the State's Department of Community and Economic Development to cities -- Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and other cities. Traditionally, Philadelphia has received percent of that allocation. That is a 19 guideline, not a requirement. And the 20 Commonwealth has chosen to reduce the amount of the State allocation made available to Philadelphia. In addition, the State has --
Well, I understand that, but just tell me what the numbers were. I 31 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING mean, it's all kind of relative. You tell me that it was cut in half. I don't know what's half and what was the result.
Five years ago, the funding from the Commonwealth was $4 million, all of which went into the basic system repairs program. In this year's budget, the funding line item, which I think reflects what's been proposed in here Harrisburg, is 1.6 million.
And so are you saying that you're going to put 2.4 from CDBG to get it back to where it was? Or, I mean --
I think there are several opportunities. One is to reallocate from other portions of the CDBG budget. Secondly, we've proposed -- and this is summarized in the preliminary plan. We've proposed drawing down CDBG float loans to create a zero-interest construction loan fund. That will save a lot of funding from developers of CDBG-funded projects that are currently borrowing on the private market at 9.5 percent and more. And our intent is to put that savings into BSRP. First deal, coincidentally, will be one 32 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING phase of the Cecil B. Moore Home Ownership Zone, which PHDC is developing, and the attempt intent is to take the savings and construction interest that PHDC will achieve, which will be over $200,000 just for that one deal and put it right into BSRP. We have some other opportunities to supplement BSRP through the private activity bonds, which are proposed as part of the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative as well.
Well, I appreciate that information. If you could give us a schedule of the funding, both sources and uses, for the past ten years on the BSRP program, who the various funding sources were, how much they put in, how much we put in, and what the result of the budget or the resulting budget impact has been, I would appreciate that. I'm sure we'll have more of this discussion at CDBG time. Now, I seem to remember from your original testimony a few weeks ago that there was, either in your testimony or someone else's someone testimony or in some larger packet testimony, reference made to $500,000 for curb and sidewalk replacement, which, given the fact that we've been 33 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING talking about that for almost ten years, I was certainly intrigued by it, although not in any critical way. I was wondering about the $500,000 figure. And so can you shed a little more light on that? What is that about? how did you arrive at that figure? what would you do with $500,000? and how did this all happen?
I believe the testimony you're referring to was my testimony during the Capital Program hearing, and I think you had mentioned that that funding would be designated for the 4th District, which I remember hearing.
I had proposed that this line be added to the Capital Program, despite the questions and problems that nearly everyone here is aware of because I felt that there might be an opportunity to link curb and sidewalk reconstruction with some of the block improvement programs, the model block-type programs that have been operating, that are being proposed for expansion during the coming year as part of a 34 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING neighbor preservation effort. I've mentioned to the Controller in formal discussion, not in a full program review with all of our staffs involved, but I've mentioned that some of these block improvement programs could be structured so that most of the properties, or possibly all of the properties, on a particular block would receive various exterior improvements, including roof replacement, painting of wood trim, porch repair, step repair, and so on that would be funded through the Community Development Block Grant in combination with the private activity bonds, and have questioned whether this kind of approach, which would not be full new construction or full rehabilitation, but would certainly touch every single property on the block, or the majority of properties on the block, might not meet the eligibility question that had been raised by the Controller in the past. And the response I got was that would be considered and could be considered. And on that basis, the line item was proposed. Clearly, a lot more discussion has to take place regarding the program detail and the 35 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING issue of whether this meets the standard or not. But particularly in light of the discussion we've had during the Community Development Block Grant hearings about this issue and the need to do something about it, I felt that this was a constructive way of moving us on to the next step.
All right. So I guess at the end of the day for that particular item, there's a lot more work that needs to be done. We are now apparently going to be blessed to get some further insight from the Budget Director, who has very stealthily moved his way up to the witness table. Mr. Dubow, would you like to enlighten us about something?
I'd like to talk to Mr. Kromer for one minute and then -- (Messrs. Dubow and Kromer confer off record.).
Thank you. The issue is somewhat easier in that, as part of some funding reallocations that were made this month, that $500,000 will be funded through the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative 36 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING rather than through the Capital Program, so I would expect that all of the control issues would -- we would not have to deal with any of the Controller issues.
All right, so there's been a change in the, well, funding situation.
That's right, which apparently means that we could proceed without having to deal with some of the issues that we were concerned about.
Okay, all right. You've made reference on a couple of occasions that you were looking through the preliminary materials of the Mayor's Neighborhood Transformation Initiative program?
The materials I was referring to were the materials that were presented to Councilmembers at a session held last November at the University of Pennsylvania. Those basic materials have been reprinted as an appendix 37 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING to the preliminary plan, and I know that questions have been raised about the detail of the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. But in broad terms, looking at the information that has been presented, there is a lot of funding for the kinds of preservation activities that we've discussed and if and when combined with the --
Are you talking about after the -- I mean, I thought, like, $190 million of it was primarily for either demolition or encapsulization.
Yes, but I'm really speaking of the private activity bond funding, which is a part of the program but separate from.
The private activity bond funding that could be linked with the CDBG and home funding amounts to $35 million extra. And, again, we've included this in the preliminary plan 38 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING as an additional column, so that $35 million combined with our existing effort really would be the biggest year of preservation in the history of the program.
Now, to your knowledge, with regard to the private activity funds, do you know they're being floated this year or over some period of years? Our current understanding is that of the $250 million, it's only anticipated that about 50 million is actually going to be floated this year. So where would the 10 million private activity bonds come in the series of financings?
I don't have the answer to that now, but my understanding is that some additional detail will be provided this month.
Okay. What's our policy in the areas of the City in certain neighborhoods where you only have maybe one or two vacant houses on the block? Who steps in if there's not an active CDC or kind of a neighborhood, homegrown developer? What do we do with those houses?
The opportunity that we're 39 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING pursuing in recent years effective in areas of that kind is a program the Home Ownership Rehabilitation Program. It's limited but I think it has been effective in areas of that kind. It's a moderate subsidy program year-round that is available year-round that is available to turn around houses that were recently vacated frequently on good blocks of the type that you described. And in this moderate rehab program, a developer can come to the Redevelopment Authority, submit a proposal to rehabilitate a house with an up to $25,000 subsidy, get an approval if the proposal is complete within 30 days, and move ahead with the rehabilitation. That program has been very effective in some of the outlying that have not been the focus of a lot of Community Development Block Grant Program activities. One of the limitations of the program up till now has been that it has been restricted to nonprofit groups and community development corporations. Part of the proposal for the coming year is to open the program up to private developers. And, again, with the private activity 40 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING bond financing, there will be an opportunity to use this program citywide and to increase the income levels associated with the home buyers.
Could you provide to us, through the Chair, a listing, then, of all of the projects and activities that have taken place citywide over the last eight years by address and Council District?
I think we could. We've done some detailed reporting to Council by address during most of that period. So I believe we could do that.
Okay, great. What are we doing in the area of senior housing and senior housing with services and that kind of activity?
The ongoing programs that have been funded through the Community Development Block Grant, I expect, you're familiar with. The Home Repair Program, for example, is used to a great degree by elderly homeowners whose houses need repair.
I'm sorry, I may not have been crystal-clear with the question. I 41 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING was speaking more of housing for seniors in, you know, units, 30 units, 50 units, some have no 4 services, some may have services, you have 5 assisted living types of facilities, continuum of 6 care, those kinds. Do we have any particular 7 policy, or are we looking forward with regard to 8 aging population and how we house people after 9 they're kind of no longer able to take care of the 10 house and paint and get out on the roof and all of 11 that kind of stuff? 12
We've tried to use the two 13 programs -- the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit and 14 the Federal Section 202 Program -- to leverage 15 federal funding in combination with CDBG funding 16 for elderly housing development. I can provide 17 you with a listing of what has been funded. It's 18 an ongoing process and something that's being 19 funded or being completed every year. 20
Okay. But, I mean, are we -- is it on an as-people-come-in-and-ask- about-it basis? I mean, do we have any particular strategy or policy as it relates to the production of senior housing based on our population and demographics? Or is it, you know, 10 people come 42 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING in the door and 9 want to do one kind of thing and one happens to want to do senior housing and so we just fund 'em 'cause they asked for it?
As a policy, we work with developers to get as much of the HUD 202 funding, which is exclusively for senior housing as we can every year, and that's good for something every year.
In addition, although there isn't a formal set-aside, we see to it that funding linked to the low-income house tax credit is made available every year for senior housing as well.
Okay. What is the review by the reinvestment fund of the CDBG Program about, when do you expect that it will be completed, and where does it fit in in terms of future policies and strategies on the utilization of CDBG funds?
I don't have a scope of work for the reinvestment fund project, and I'm not sure whether one exists, but my understanding is that the Mayor's Office asked the reinvestment 43 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING fund to look at the City's overall housing policy, how that related to the condition of Philadelphia neighborhoods, and to suggest ways in which the City could consider making policy changes or possibly realigning funding allocations to various neighborhoods or realigning City housing agency responsibilities. And I expect that a number of those recommendations will be forthcoming this month. How long the entire project will extend, I don't know.
Okay. I think this is probably my last question. Can you get on a year-by-year basis for, say, the last ten years all of the work that's been done on either new construction or rehab in the residential market, separating out the special needs housing? I think there are three programs. Isn't there -- there's the neighborhood home ownership, neighbor rental.
Special needs. And 44 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING there was one other that seemed to be geared toward either rehab or new construction. Was that HRP?
All right. Why don't we just do, on the residential side, the rehab and new construction. I think they're primarily covered by home ownership and rental?
For those for the past ten years, can you provide us with data regarding every property that was done and when it was done. And is there a reasonable assumption that within a relatively short period of time of when one of those rehabs or new construction is done that it's pretty much occupied shortly after that?
Okay, all right. So you can tell us on a year-by-year basis the 45 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING actually the actual address of each one of those per program on a year-by-year basis.
Right, okay. And if you can -- again, it would be a lot easier to keep track of them keep them together probably in Council district.
Okay. And my last question is, what -- do you have any way of determining for all of the programs and project activities that OHCD funds -- we get reports from time to time that indicate the number -- the total number of people working on the project, a certain percentage were Philadelphians, a certain percentage were non-Philadelphians. Now, do you have that for all of the CDBG funds or all of the programs and activities that OHCD funds?
We have that for all of the production activities, new construction and vacant rehab, yes. 46 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Okay. So without a tremendous amount of detail but, again, on a year-by-year basis, let's say, for the last six, seven years, if the total amount of dollars coming in, I mean, between all of the various pots, and I think there are primarily four major funding sources, adds up to usually about 100, 102, 105 million dollars, could you tell us out of that for any program a year what percentage of those funds was spent primarily in the area of, I guess, kind of union-related projects versus -- I guess we have some that are nonunion? Do we?
Basically everything -- all of the major activities are union -- are prevailing wage.
Okay, all right. If you could break that out, that would be helpful.
Take $100 million. 47 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I mean, I know it's more or less a couple of other hundred million.
But within the pot, I'd like to see the break-out between what's spent on a dollar basis for union-related projects and then anything else.
All right. And could we define "prevailing wage" versus other --
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Following up on that, I would like to see that done in terms of how many minorities are in each of the projects and the hours in terms of -- your breakdown of project in terms of skilled labor and you put down the hours of skilled labor by nonresident, 48 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING minority, non-minority, and so on. And I would also like to see how many apprenticeships have been given per project or in each project and those, again, broken down to minority, non-minorities, resident, nonresident. And, obviously, also the breakdown of the monies that are spent in terms of contracts and how many of those contracts or subcontractors are local Philadelphia contractors and which are not. So we find out how much of the money that is coming in for the federal government is really being spent outside of Philadelphia and not inside of Philadelphia that we give.
And if you can do that for -- well Mike asked for the last seven. I think that will be fine.
But up to the year 2000 and if you have anything for --
And if you have any information in terms of other projects such as the ones that we give loans to such as hotels and -- that come through CDBG.
And those projects that get that type of loan, and I would like to see the same type of breakdown.
In terms of minority participation and apprenticeships, subcontracts, skilled labor by hours, how many hours, what percentage of the hours, for example, because sometimes we get a statistic that says 40 percent minorities, but when you get down to it, the hours are like 10 percent of the hours.
So if that could be done because, as you know, we've been working on a report along those lines. We have it up until 1998, and we'd like to see it all across the board for Center City projects and the other ones. And if you have that information, we really would appreciate it. 50 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
I don't know. I'll have to let you know, but as you know, a lot of record-keeping has been done.
So, obviously, you started the process along those lines. For the last few years, we've been asking for this information so -- because we want to be able to -- you saw the census.
And we didn't lose as many people as we thought we were going to lose. However, the joblessness rate among the majority of Philadelphians remains the same, and we have to be able to see how we use those federal monies so that jobs are created within Philadelphia and we put those individuals to work. And everybody keeps saying about creating a new middle class; well, we have to create a new 51 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING middle class, and this is the way to do it. So if you can make that available to us, I'd really appreciate it.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Kromer, can you give us names for people who applied -- low-income homeowners for the Tier and and services as well as those who are involved for the basic system repair program? Can you give us those people?
We -- yes, we can. We currently report through PHDC on the cases completed through the program. I don't know if there would be a confidentiality issue or any type of issue for people that have applied but have not yet been approved, but I'm sure we could find a way to give you the data, and then if there was 52 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING specific inquiry about addresses and so on, we could help you with that. So the answer is yes.
Thank you. How many Section 108 loans have been granted in the last three years -- '99, 2000 and 2001? Section 108's, how many have we gotten?
In each of the past three fiscal years, I believe we have done Section 108 borrowing for housing and for economic development, so I believe it's -- (Mr. Kromer privately confers with colleague off the record.)
I just want to make sure I understood the question. As I understand it, you were asking, during the last three years, how many Section 108 loans have we --
Right. Do you know that in dollar amounts offhand? Do you have that? Or you can always submit it to us.
Good morning. 53 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING In the Housing 108 loans, we've applied for a $10.5 million 108 loan for each of the last three years.
All right. Thank you very much. And finally, could you give us any detail that would not violate confidentiality on who got the ECA -- people assisted by the ECA grants, tract and 1260 housing?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. First, an individual case. Has anybody from the Redevelopment Authority discussed with you the problem that exists with respect to driveways on back of the new homes on the 1400 block of West Grain Street, a problem caused by the fact that the new homes share a driveway with homes that existed for many years on the other 54 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING side of Grain Street?
Yes. I have heard of the problem, and I believe we've recommended a compromised approach to dealing with the problem, which includes some additional funding.
All right. Do you think that whatever was recommended is going to assist in the solution?
I'm sure it will, and I believe we're all on board with that.
Good. Second, are there jobs -- is there funding for housing where prevailing-wage rates do not have to be paid as well as certain funding where prevailing wages have to be paid?
In terms of the federal law, there are a number of housing activities which are not linked to a prevailing wage requirement. For example, rental housing does not trigger the Davis Bacon regulations.
Is there any single-family housing that stopped required to follow prevailing wages under the federal law?
Single-family of fewer 55 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING than eight units is exempt from Davis Bacon as well.
Do those homes cost the same or more or less? The cost to build than the homes that are prevailing wage? What's the relationship?
Well, as a practical matter, most, or all, of the housing development activities in reason years have been prevailing wage, whether the federal regulations required it or not.
Is that because of City ordinances filling the gap or because of just practical problems?
No. It's really, in my view, because the building trades and the developers have supported that approach to the extent that there may not be any jobs that are done that are not prevailing wage.
Is there any way of finding out statistically, as a result of the construction of homes, whether under the required prevailing wage or those that nonetheless apply method, how many local people have been trained so 56 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING as to be able to become members of labor organizations in the construction industry, the building trades, I guess.
We could provide some of that information from sources such as Congreso and Youth Build. So we could respond on a limited basis, but that, I think, would give you some of the information you're looking for of.
All right. And I would like that compared with the number of -- if this could be tracked -- the number of young people, men, women, ethnic backgrounds that get involved and how many of them pass through at various stages. How many, say, get jobs and then only last for a very short time, how many go on to become eligible perhaps for the apprenticeship program, how many have gone beyond that and gotten into union membership.
Is there any method by which the City tracks what happens, say, after union membership? Because sometimes we get complaints that members don't get employed too 57 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING frequently. Now, maybe the complaint is wrong I; have no idea of its truth. But could we find out that? Because we understood -- I think there was testimony at a recent hearing that for the next five years, the construction industry seems to be booming; I don't know whether that's been impacted upon by what's happening on Wall Street these days.
We could provide some of that information as well, again, through the training providers that we're working with.
All right. I would like -- and if you could send that to the President, that information, I think, would be useful to every member of City Council, and I'm sure that she will see it gets there. Thank you very much. Madam President.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions of Mr. Kromer? (No further questions.)
Thank you, 58 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Mr. Kromer. Thank you.
The recreation is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner,, I wanted to get some follow up based on a couple of items that have been raised both by Councilman Darrell Clarke as well as myself specifically related to the future operations of the Robin Hood Dell East, some outstanding capital issues as well as Operating Budget issues, and I wanted to have an opportunity to get an update on the record as to what's going on with the Dell. There was some construction issues of a somewhat pressing nature as well as the ability of the facility to open not only on time but also in a way that we can ensure that we have the various acts and performers under 59 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING contract as early as possible, get a schedule out as early as possible, and ensure a successful season. Could you provide an update to us on operations of the Robin Hood Dell East? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Great. Good morning. The Budget and Operating Budget is the same that it's been for the three previous --
I'm sorry. Commissioner, you have to identify yourself for the record, please. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I'm sorry. Good morning. Vic Richard, Recreation Commissioner. On Operation Budget, our budget for the Robin Hood Dell is consistent to what it's been in the past three years: 388,000 in operating funds. No changes, no cuts have been made whatsoever, so we should have no problems. The money that was needed for us to do early bookings, an additional $75,000 is being put in place to be in place for us to be able to have the shows in a earlier fashion -- booked in a earlier fashion by April of this year. The issues that you brought up -- 60 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING raising infrastructure and capital project -- there's a half a million that has been appropriated over the past three or four years through the capital fund. Presently, there's a open bid that's out that's due to be opened on the 29th of this month to address two of the three pressing issues right now. The present structure of the speaker towers at the facility are presently structured out of wood; we're having them torn down and replaced for this upcoming season in steel framing in a permanent basis. We also have some problems with the floor of the stage. That will addressed prior to this season as well. We also have a larger issue: substrata subsidence in a higher level of being in the Dell. And we're looking to see if we can do a patch-up job to get us through this season and appropriate more monies next year to do a total dig-out. And our major concern is to preserve and maintain the present operation and the infrastructure of the Dell.
As a result of those projects, will the present seating 61 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING arrangement and the number of seats remain the same or be increased or decreased? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Our goal is to maintain the present seating capacity at the Dell, not to decrease it whatsoever. The work, based upon the subsidence issue, will dictate if we will be able to maintain the present level of seating this year because we want to make sure that all of our patrons and guests are safe, so that would be a security issue. But the Administration and the department has no initiatives to reduce seating. That would only be towards addressing the construction issues.
Okay. Lastly, based on my experience over the years and given some of things that have happened in recent times, I would ask if you would give strong thought and consideration to either a strategic plan or a full and comprehensive review of the operations and activities out at the Robin Hood Dell East, both from a capital perspective as well as the day-to-day, week-to-week operations, reviewing a variety of items -- whether it's tickets, 62 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING security, parking, lighting, additional uses for the facilities -- so that we get the maximum use of an outdoor ampitheater. I understand that it obviously is not covered, but it is in a unique location, serves a wide variety of purposes and neighborhoods. And I think that at this point, we need to possibly take it a step up in terms of how we run and operate this facility, similar to other major ampitheaters and entertainment facilities throughout the City. And I would ask that you give consideration to that kind of strategic planning and a full laid-out plan for how we make this facility not only function and operate for people in the course of a year, but also how, from an economic standpoint, we make it a more viable facility and allow it to be somewhat self- sufficient. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Thank you. That's the goal.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. 63 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Commissioner, did I understand you to say that you had to advance $75,000 for bookings for the concerts? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: It's not a -- may have worded it wrong. It's money that we have appropriated, that we just need to move up. It normally kicks in, I want to say, July 1st. So we need to move the money up. It's already pre- appropriated money; we just need to access it earlier.
Thank you, Madam President. First, I wanted to congratulate the Commissioner, the Deputy Commissioner, and the Recreation Department in what appears to be finally nearing completion the Bellfield Recreation Center, which, for seven years, I've been complaining -- maybe it's eight years -- that it's only partially in use because the rehabilitation of it was fouled up by contractors 64 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING going broke, contractors being chosen and then not performing, matters being stolen, by doors not fitting. And it appears as if there's going to be enough work done by the end of April to perhaps have a formal opening of the rehabilitated structure. It will certainly surprise many people in the community, because they've given up the recreation center for dead. But it seems to have come to life. Am I right as to that?
Thank you, Councilman Cohen. My name is Deputy Commissioner Carlton Williams for the Department of Recreation. We were -- one of the challenge and tasks that the Commissioner and I had when we first came into the door was introduced to the Bellfield Recreation Center, and we met with the community leaders. We also met with our planning and construction division to ensure that we would be able to turn the facility back over into the community. And so we were more than happy to address those issues, and we will have it open by the end of April. 65 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
And it wasn't easy because you suffer from the old (inaudible) for a while, but you persevered and overcame them all, and the community wants to, and I'm expressing it on their behalf, give you thanks from the community for that. Secondly, having done so well on that, it raises in my mind the question of -- and I don't know whether either or any of the three of you at the table remember or have ever heard of something called the "Playhouse in the Park," which for many, many years was a great feature of Fairmount Park. I'm sure Councilman Nutter would remember it, although he was probably a young boy the last time they had plays there. It was located in a beautiful part of the Fairmount Park many. For many, many years, it was a great success. There were frequently professional plays, occasionally amateur groups. And then it just kind of lost attendance, perhaps the direction, you know, or the will to keep it going. I wonder, in keeping with Councilman Nutter's talk about strategic planning, whether 66 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that could be researched again to see whether Philadelphia could restore an outdoor theater. It was a delightful place to go to, you know, during the summer for those who were in the City. And I would just like to see if there's any way to revitalize it over a period of years. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I'm not familiar with the facility, but I've written down the idea along with Councilman Nutter.
It was the Playhouse in the Park. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Yeah, well, I wrote that down, but maybe we can augment the Dell in doing outdoor small-neighborhood community plays using the Dell.
Well, maybe so. It existed sort of side by side, very close to the Dell, but it was a separate performance. It might be able to be. I'd be very much interested, you know, in your conclusions as to how that kind of programming could be done. All right, if you would do, I'd be very appreciative for a report maybe at the next budget year. 67 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. Commissioner, I want to get back to the $75,000, but I would suggest that you speak to Mr. Dubow before you leave the room. I think he is present here. To the best of my knowledge, you cannot transfer money from this year to next year, or advance it. You cannot advance the money prior to July 1st. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Okay, we understand.
So are you aware of it? So the $75,000 is coming from the current budget.
If we have any surpluses 68 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING in our current budget, we will definitely dedicate it to the Dell. We did that last year.
Thank you, Madam Chair. On that particular item, can we -- I missed the first part of it, but I have a very good sense of -- don't repeat it, don't go back over it. Do we need to get Mr. Dubow up here to make sure that everybody's clear about this particular issue so that we don't run no a problem subsequent to the hearing?
Well, he's just testified that they have a $75,000 surplus, which they will be able to use for that. Is Mr. Dubow in the room? (Mr. Dubow not present at this time.)
He's operating in a parallel universe somewhere. I don't want to hold this portion of this hearing up, but if at some point, we can get him.
If he is not 69 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING here, we will verify it. We'll just wait a second. (Mr. Dubow returns to witness table.)
Yes. It's coming from the FY '01 budget. We will look for appropriate places, a place to put the allocation.
Okay, one of the many places where you hide the money, and you'll just get it from one of those --
Excuse me. Mr. Dubow, is that coming from the Recreation Department's budget?
All right. So just so we're all straight, the Recreation Department will be able to move forward in terms of accessing 70 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING dollars that they will need almost immediately to lock in contracts with either promoters or concert artists in anticipation of this year's upcoming season and do it in a way that's timely such that they can get people under contract and announce their schedule whenever it's put together as quickly as possible, and this particular issue will not slow that process down?
Thank you. I'm just very curious. I mean, we never hear about departments coming in and say they have surpluses of this size. What are you doing that's right?
Well, can I answer that? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: I don't think she meant to say "surplus." It may have been money that we use from the Vets Stadium or maybe supply money, but I'm looking for a surplus myself.
It's not -- it's not really a surplus money if, at the end of the year, 71 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING we haven't expended money because --
I'm sorry. You're going to have to for identification yourself.
My name is Josephine Mangano, and I'm the Administrative Services Director for the Recreation Department. If at end of the fiscal year, we identify any money that we have not expended, then we will put that towards the Dell. And we have some expenses that we cannot really project with 100 percent certainty. Where it happens that we fall under that projection, that's what we will dedicate for this purpose.
Do you have more than the 75,000 that you would like to share with us?
No. We're scraping together for that. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Madam President, if I may say, the snow weekend alone for the football game and the Mummers exceeded six 72 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING figures, so we have no surplus, I can guarantee you.
Thank you. Are there any other questions for the Recreation Department? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to compliment the Recreation Department. They have been on walking tours with me, they have been to my rec centers, they have come to community meetings, and the service is very well. I just wanted do compliment all of you. COMMISSIONER RICHARDS: Thank you.
I think everybody appreciates the work of the Recreation Department. As I indicated before, it's been at a level that I have not seen in a long, long time, if ever. 73 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING The Mann Center, is there any parity arrangement between the Dell East and the Mann Center with respect to funding?
No, not at this time. I think they have a separate organization, although it's a City agency, that governs, and they assist with the family group. We have a family group also that we're working closely with. And I would like to say for the record also that we are seeking public-private partnerships to improve the entertainment venue at the Dell and also doing cost-effective methods to provide affordable entertainment for the public.
And does that mean that whatever financial problems existed at the Mann Center have been resolved? COMMISSIONER RICHARD: We don't manage the Mann, so we're unable to we have no fiscal or managerial responsibility at the Mann, so we're not able to answer that question. I'm sorry.
(Inaudible.). . . About the support of the Mann Center. Do we know who -- it sounds like a form of privatization, but -- 74 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Mr. Dubow may know, but trust me, I've got enough responsibility.
I think that was contracted out; was it not, Mr. Dubow?
Yeah, how is the Mann Center financed? Who operates it?
The Mann Center is privately run by -- I think the name is the Mann Center for Performing Arts. They actually reached a -- they bid for the operations of the Mann Center. As part of that bid, they agreed that they would be self-sufficient.
No. They just -- they operate the facility. They didn't buy the land; they just operate the facility.
Do they have an accounting system that reports to the City, or do they -- are they free of the auditing processes? I mean, I'm just trying to figure out what kind of 75 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING operation it is.
Yeah, they don't report to the City on a regular basis. Occasionally, they've come back to us and requested additional funding. At that point, we've gone through their records, and there have been a couple of instances where they've requested funding and gotten some additional funding, even though their actual agreement calls for them to be completely self-sufficient. We have not gotten any such requests this year.
Is it an association or a corporation of some kind? What is the --
Thank you. Councilman, it's actually the Mann Center for the Performing Arts Incorporated. They're an incorporated organization, as Mr. Dubow indicated. They bid as a, I guess either as a vendor or as a concession operator for the operations at the Mann Music Center. 76 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I'm working with their Executive Director, Peter Lane, on their operations out there. And actually somewhat similar to request of the Recreation Commissioner, actually, the Mann Center for the Performing Arts is presently going through a strategic planning process for their future operations. As Mr. Dubow indicated, there have been past discussions and there may be future discussion about their financial situation out there. We certainly want to see that facility continue to operate and function as a premier outdoor entertainment facility in the City. They do have a very different situation as compared to the Dell. We own the Dell, we operate the Dell. I think we helped to build possibly the Mann Center. All of that is before my time. It's in my district, but I wasn't in Council at the time. We obviously own the land. We also make capital improvement to the Mann Center. Again, given the nature of the relationship, they have a building on our land, and that's nature of the contract between the Mann and the Fairmount Park Commission. 77 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I am actively monitoring their financial situation. They have from time to time had some difficulties. We obviously want it to be successful, but they did respond to an RFP, and through that process, made certain commitments with regard to their future financial stability. Sometimes things work perfectly the way you want, sometimes they don't. They're kind of in between. And we're continuing to work with them. I'd be glad to give you a further update on that activity out there, but the City has been very cooperative with the Mann Music Center over time, even under the new contractual arrangement.
Well, I raise the question because the programming at the Mann Center is quite different from the programming at the Dell East.
I think they're both extremely important cultural centers.
And the emphasis of the Mann Center is in the classical field, and I'm 78 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING concerned that, you know, throughout country, that's been losing a base of support and --
Well, Councilman, I will tell you that over the past couple of years, Mann, while maintaining a core program -- and I believe they have a new contractual relationship, which is helpful to them, with the Philadelphia Orchestra -- their programming over the past couple of years has changed quite dramatically with regard to either popular concerts and other shows and activities, and so they have significantly upgraded the programming at the Mann so as to not be soley dependent on the activities with the Philadelphia Orchestra. We love having the orchestra out there, but they have diversified their program so as to provide new and different funding sources to keep their operation viable. And I think they're trying to better promote the diversity of programming that they have out there as compared to what everyone thinks, which is just a summer with the Philadelphia Orchestra. It's a very different operation over the past couple years.
Thank you very much. 79 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Thank you. Are there any other questions for the Department of Recreation?. (No further questions.)
Thank you all very much. COMMISSIONER RICHARD: Thank you, Madam President.
The School District is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
I believe several of the Councilmembers had asked that you come back. Who wants to be recognized first? Who wants to be recognized first?
I know Councilman Nutter is so shy. Here we go, Councilman Nutter. 80 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. It seems like so long ago when we last saw each other. Last week, we had a discussion with regard to obviously a wide variety of items, but one was particularly pressing, and I think there was a meeting that was scheduled this past Friday with regard to the Parent Cooperative Nursery program and a meeting between the staff, I think, overseeing childhood education programs and the parent leaders. And then I know there was a Board meeting yesterday. I had made a request at last week's hearing that, notwithstanding the meeting on Friday and possible presentation to the Board with regard to proposed new fees, that no action would be taken in that regard at the Board meeting yesterday because of today's continuation hearing on the budget. Can you give us an update on, first, Friday's meeting, what happened with that, and then any of yesterday's activities, and then where are we?
Good morning. Yes, 81 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Councilman Nutter, a meeting was held --
I'm sorry. Deirdre Farmbry, Chief Academic Officer, School District of Philadelphia. A meeting was held on Friday with representatives from the School District; specifically, our Director of Early Childhood Education, our Associate Superintendent for Leadership and Learning, and the person who has responsibility for Parent Cooperative Nurseries. At that meeting, the results of the parent surveys were shared, and in addition, there was discussion around two proposals. One set of proposals that was --
I'm sorry, Dr. Farmbry, before you get to that part, can you tell me what came out of the parent surveys.
Okay, yes. Basically, the surveys -- the parents in the surveys, their number-one requirement was that there be no fee; that was the overwhelming outcome of the surveys. After that, there was a letter that we 82 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING received, I think, the very next day -- and I understand it was cc'd to all members of Council -- written by two of parents from Parent Cooperative Nursery in which they set out about three particular designs for fee. There was discussion about that letter, and members of the District also shared a proposal that we wanted to submit to the Board as well.
All right, let me understand the first part of it. So you're saying that there was a letter, a document, some piece of paper from the parents that, I guess, possibly notwithstanding whatever the surveys may have said or revealed or showed, that the parent leadership of this particular program made some response or made, I guess, a proposal, if you will, to the District on a variety of increased fee scenarios, whether in a sliding scale fashion or in a flat-fee scenario? Is that what you're saying?
That is correct. One of my staff members has the a letter. I thought I had the letter with me, but I do not.
I understand. And 83 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING whatever that was, it was an increase of over where things are today; is that correct?
All right. So, again, just so we're following the path here. There had been a fee in place. We had last year's situation. The District suggested that the fee should be somewhat higher, although at the time, maybe not completely and necessarily fully defined. Then the fee was suspended. And we don't need to go back over what did or did not happen from September to February, but then we got to February and into March, the result of which was at least the parents did come back with their own increased fee schedule, whether on a sliding-scale basis or on a flat fee basis. Are all of those facts correct?
Okay. At which time, the meeting concluded with the staff letting the parents know that we would take this information to the Board. We were -- we understood that a decision would not be made at yesterday's Board 84 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING meeting but that we would take the fee back to the Board.
The fees that the parents were proposing was a flat fee of $5 per week.
In addition to the a month? I mean, why don't we talk in monthly 10 figures. It's $45, right? 11
So they proposed to 13 go from 25 to 45 on their own? 14
Okay. That's close 19 to 100 percent increase in the program cost? What 20 is it, 80? 21
So yesterday morning at the Board meeting, we relayed the information that had transpired since Friday, and we made a proposal to the Board of Education for a flat fee that does give credits to parents for the time that they work. Basically, it would be a $14-a-week fee, in addition to the money that the parents that have already been used to paying for snacks and for trips.
Bringing the total to a $20.55 total weekly fee for PCN parents.
Okay. The monthly on that -- again, if we can stay in monthly terms, it's a little easier to keep track of.
All right. So let me make sure I understand this. The present fee is $25. The District's proposal is to go -- I think it's somewhere in the $80 to $81-a-month fee. 86 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
And that is an over 200 percent increase in the present fee schedule; is that correct?
Yes. And it's my understanding that at the end of last year, the proposal actually called for a $50 fee. So we have reduced that amount in revisiting this.
At the end of last year, if I look at the entire -- the chronology over the last-- in July of 2000, there was a decision made to implement a flat-rate fee of $50 per week.
All right. So you're now taking the perspective that last summer, you proposed to raise it to $200 a month; this year, you're proposing to raise it to 81 a month.
And so, therefore, you're actually proposing a savings of $119 a month. Is that the way you're presenting this?
Over what our -- the original decision was in July. In other words, from July to date, through the interactions and the discussions back and forth, we have come to the current rate of $20 a week, which would be about $80 a month.
Now, just for the record, I'll say this, and you don't have to respond: That was the original poorly-timed, bad strategy fee that was suggested last summer. That was the one in July, after people had already signed up in the spring, right?
Okay, all right. Let me say this: One, the School 88 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING District has obviously done a tremendous amount of work to try to grapple with a whole host of issues around this particular program, and I know you're doing a longer-term look at all of the preschool programs that we have -- Head Start CDC, and PCN, which I am certainly, one, deeply appreciative of. I think it is due and maybe overdue as we try to figure out how to prepare kids now for kindergarten since we have already decided that we're going to try to well-prepare them for 1st grade by having made the commitment to kindergarten, and now we're basically in the 4-year-old business, but we have a variety of programs that have various funding sources, which come with various strings attached to them and complexities and the like. Two, I know that over a long period of time, possibly before I was ever here or spent much time focused on PCN, there have been efforts to either increase the fee, change the program, some would probably talk about expanding it, some would probably talk about shrinking it. There's been a lot of discussion about this over a long period of time. Last year's effort was last 89 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING year's effort, and I think we all learned a great deal as a result of that. My problem at the moment is, in days and days of hearings, no one has said that it's not a good program, no one has said that it doesn't do good things for 4-year-olds as they go on to kindergarten. And it seems that we've now just come down to the financial component of this. There doesn't seem to be a should we have it, should we not have it; it's more in the realm of, we've got a $235 million deficit, we've been trying to increase the fees in this program, probably appropriately -- I won't comment on the methodology. And now we have this opportunity, based on the Board resolution, which laid out a series of steps that would be taken. From my perspective at least, in terms of completeness of steps, only one of them is now complete, which is the fee proposal. The comprehensive review of all of the programs and activities may not have been done by this point in time, but I don't know whether that got off to the right start or not. And now say we want to announce in a 90 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING reasonable period of time, which is good, a 224 percent increase in a program in one year. And I guess my problem with that is, under no 5 other circumstance, in no other business, in no 6 other universe would anyone propose a $224 percent increase in the cost of their product and expect anyone to continue to utilize it. I have stated a million times that I would agree with the School District in terms of some increase in fees on this particular program. There are probably some parents who are not thrilled about that, parents that I have worked with, but I have stated that publicly, and I'm going to maintain that position. And so now the discussion is, as best as I can figure out, is really a discussion about $45 versus $81 and whether there's some number in between that makes sense for you, is not harmful to the parents, and creates an environment in which, well, yes, you can still have this program, but financially, you may not be able to access it, and then you will not use the program, and ultimately, we will have no problem.
And I say all that -- and I'll close 91 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING with this -- in the context of, it is very clear that based on the work that the District is doing, whether with United Way, the University of Pennsylvania, Harriet Dichter and the Office of Child Care and anyone else who we may be working with, that all of these programs could very well be different in the following school year, 2002, such that the question comes, how much do we need to do and how much change needs to take place at this particular moment versus a larger change that more than likely will happen in September of 2002, when we have either a variety of different programs or all one program serving the 4-year-old or 5-year-old or both populations. And so I'm just left with, if we're down now to the money and if, by your own calculations, this raises at the max $200,000, and I don't discount a dollar, they're all important and they actually add up, but given where we are and what this has all has been about, the question for me finally is, is it really all worth it? And is there a number that we can reasonably agree upon that let's everyone have basically what they need to have and close the book on this particular 92 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING issue and move on?
Councilman, I'm Pedro Ramos, President of the School Board. I think, Councilman Nutter, you summarized the what the Board of Education is grappling with pretty well. I would add that although there's some piece of this that is financial, and certainly, you know, we're headed towards a whole lot more difficult financial decisions, given the School District's fiscal crisis, that the Board of Education, as it's considered these issues, has also thought about balancing, you know, what kind of what's fair when you look at the system as a whole. When you look at for example, the Comprehensive Day Care program, which I know you're familiar with. And, I mean, one way of putting at it is, what's the percent increase another way might be, how's it compare to what a -- compared to what CDC, which is based on need and takes income into account and requires income verification, what parents there are expected to do for a similar amount of service, and the methodology that staff used in the proposal that was given to the Board 93 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING although, you know, at your request, we got into the discussion of what staff was working on at the time. Yesterday was the first time that the Board heard the staff proposal.
And that methodology started with looking to see what was fair, comparing to programs like CDC, taking into the account the hours that parents work in the PCN, taking into account the difference in hours, and other factors. And I agree -- I agree with you in terms of, you know, other than utilities, you don't usually don't see that type of increase, but --
I'd be glad to have a fairness discussion with you as well. And I think my argument about fairness is, should there be an increase? Yes. How much is also, I believe, a function of fairness as compared to any other program, and I don't know their history and their development. All I'm saying and my argument today is, in an environment of fairness, because our 94 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING first discussion, not about this issue, but about your budget, is that you're laying out a plan to show to us and to show to Harrisburg. Now, I didn't hear anybody at the table, including Miss Chatzkel, say, We expect to get $235 million from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the City of Philadelphia combined this year. No one said that. I don't think anybody expects that, I don't think anybody believes that. And the reason you don't expect it and the reason you don't believe it is because it is unreasonable. And no matter how much of a fairness argument you made to the Commonwealth or to the City, we cannot do that. And so at the same time, all I'm arguing is, on a fairness argument, you are asking for too much too soon, and that over a period of time -- the program didn't get to where it is overnight and we're not going to solve all of its issues and problems overnight, similar to the School District. And so all I'm making an argument is on fairness. Let us be fair in what we ask for and the timeliness in which we ask for it and 95 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING acknowledge the fact that some progress -- I think significant progress -- has been made. You probably could walk away with a 100 percent increase, declare victory, and go on about your business.
And I think at the moment, given where this started and where it is today, that's fair.
Councilman, you know, a couple things just for the record in terms of the methodology that the staff used and then I'll come back to your question. The other thing that the staff did was, they reported to the Board yesterday that they had looked at what similar programs that provide the service charge and also determined that the rate being proposed by staff was also fair from a market perspective. It's not going to your issue of fair increase.
And the Board also yesterday heard testimony from parents that raised some questions, even under the District's 96 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING methodology, whether the number was right, whether there's some dispute about the number of hours that the parents are required to work.
And with more time and more research and more dialogue --
The Board yesterday got a proposal that it's trying to be fair, that it's here at Council in these budget hearings to also hear what Council has to say. Councilman Cohen sent a representative and testified at the Board yesterday, and that, you know, that the Board, you know, expects to, before making any final determination, have to conclude that what it's doing is fair to everybody, and we're not -- you know, when we get something new, we've been following up on it.
I appreciate that. Madam Chair, I'll close with -- then all I can ask -- and I now other colleagues have questions -- is that you could take a sense back to the Board that we want to see these programs, 97 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING we want to support these programs. We are very sensitive to the School District's financial situation. The School District from my perspective at least -- I mean the School District is us. We all serve the same people. And one day I'm arguing for somebody about, you know, a day care program, and the next day, I'm potentially argue for that same person about their trash getting picked up or an abandoned house next to it. They're all the same people. We're a little more, from my perspective, empowered on, you know, the government side, the City government side as compared to the School District's side, given the nature of the funding and who has the relationships. But on a day-to-day basis, it is all of us who make all of these decisions. And so what I'm asking for at the moment is a sense of fairness and compassion about this particular situation, acknowledging that we have a million additional issues to work on together. I'm going to continue to be a friend and a supporter of the School District. It's in 98 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING my heart, it's in my soul, it's there. But I feel very strongly and very passionately about this particular issue. And I think in the context of all of the other things that we have to do that need to be done, some accommodation could be made, and I'm asking to be made by the Board in this particular circumstance given the nature of all of our relationships and all of the other things that we have to get done. And that's all that I can ask.
Thank you, Councilman. I will certainly relay that to the Board.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would also like to express my support for program and am hoping that some reasonable solution can come of this conversation because we've spent a lot of time, a lot of effort, and I think if we did the arithmetic, we'd probably spent more than the program probably can 99 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING produce in revenue, so I hope we would come to some decision quickly. I appreciate the District providing some information as a result of our questions the last time you were here. And, again, I don't want to appear to nitpick, but I must. I must respond and ask a couple questions about the documents that you've submitted. The one telecommunications expense, where it indicates we've spent $5.3 million on telecommunications. And I believe I asked the question about the existing communications system that the School District has and asked approximately what that system cost to operate and maintain, and I don't see that question addressed in this document; at least if it is, I've missed it. But let me just point out -- I've done some arithmetic while I'm sitting here, I've added up some numbers. And we learned that the School District has Nextel telephones, and I know there's a preference in Council for -- what was that other brand?
Nokia. Councilman Nutter likes Nokia. But in all seriousness, I've done some arithmetic, and I have to point out that the information is for Fiscal Year 2000, not Fiscal Year 2001, because we're still in that fiscal year, but I'd be curious to know six months of Fiscal Year 2001. Now, I've done some arithmetic here and I'm looking at communications, Nextel. And I'm looking at Bell Atlantic Mobile and I'm looking at other line items here that add up for cellular telephone service $419,000. I'm adding up the paging and I probably have done -- and missed some things here of $34,558 for paging, and it goes on and on and on. And I'm -- an uneducated guess that if that is if this is Fiscal Year 2000 that the history of the School District is maybe things -- maybe there's nor Nextel phones or maybe there's more Bell Atlantic cell phones. I think that I bet that there are more than less, and I'm suggesting that probably this particular expense is going to be more in this fiscal year. 101 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING So I'd like to just nitpick for a minute and talk about almost a half a million dollars in paging equipment and cellular telephones. I was told that this radio system that the School District has doesn't cost anything to operate. Well, what good is it -- and I can understand that certain executives, certain supervisors need cell telephones. But, boy, I'm telling you, this does not send a very good signal to me that you over at the School District are really trying to get your financial -- the financial condition in order over there. So -- and by the way, one thing I do is dot my i's and cross my t's. I was told this was negotiated or there was some interface with the City's Communications Division, and I called the Communications Director, and he didn't know what I was talking about. Your response?
Rhonda Chatzkel, CFO for the School District. Councilman Rizzo, if I might respond and add some additional information on our telecommunications charges for 2000. When I reviewed what had been sent to you, I realized 102 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that there was not an offset to those expenses that the School District Reeves receives. It's called the e-rate. The e-rate is a surcharge on telephone bills that are paid. And to the extent that any of these expenses are used at the schools, they're offset by an e-rate, up to 86 percent of the cost. I don't really know the protocol, whether this could have been given out before, but brought with us this morning our net cost for Fiscal Year 2000 for all telecommunications charges, which is $1.6 million, for an offset of about 67 percent of all costs.
"Offset" that means on a net basis to the District, we're seeing much lower expense than this gross number that you saw.
I'm not -- let's forget the dollar amount here. In other words, I'm told that you spent -- let me see here -- $419,000 on a cellular telephone bill. That to me -- I don't care if it's federal money, State money, it's taxpayers' money, no matter where you 103 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING come up with this money. You know, it gets -- I get tired of hearing, Well, it's federal money, it's State money, it's not our money. Well, it is our money, and sometimes I think we in government forget that there's people out there working to pay their federal income tax, their State income tax, their City wage tax. And I'm just commenting on a cell telephone bill when I was told that we have a communications system that doesn't cost us anything. Well, I'm curious to know how much it costs to operate system. But, again, I know that this is nitpicking, but it's important. This is a half a million dollars. We're talking about cutting programs, we're talking about $190-some million shortfall. And this isn't a signal to me or the taxpayers of this region that you are really trying to save money over there.
Two comments, if I may, Councilman Rizzo. One is that the e-rate cannot be used to offset other operating expenses within the District. We need to apply it to the 104 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING telecommunications charges only. Those are the guidelines. So we have to deal within those guidelines. But to your second question, which is the magnitude of total charges, even though we do have an offset, there is a policy change and I guess a reduction in telecommunications expenses by design that our CEO, Mr. Goldsmith, implemented. And, in fact, the budget for next year shows an overall reduction in the gross cost before e-rate of all telecommunications charges, being mindful of what you raised.
Uh-huh. Well, I appreciate that, but again, there's another line here: Bell Atlantic Mobile Systems. That's another wireless company. That isn't even factored -- that's factored into the number, but that's 24,978, so obviously, that wasn't good enough for someone and we had to go out and do a deal with Nextel, which is City communication. We're talking about trying to consolidate services here. And I checked the record. It was stated that this was done in cooperation or in 105 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING consultation with our communication division, and the director of that organization didn't know what I was talking about, I repeat. So, again, I'm going to be interested in after receiving this morning -- you have two pages of expenses, and I'm confident that with some consolidation and some work with the City communications system, this new technology that's on the way, that many of these costs that are on this page, that according to the information that I have and the e-rate and all of that -- all I know is that the document says $5.3 million, and I don't know a lot about the e-rate or any of those formulas, but this is a lot of money.
Councilman Rizzo, if I may. Phil Goldsmith, Interim CEO of the Philadelphia School District. First, I apologize for not getting the information on the maintenance and cost of the other communications system, and we will get you the cost of that, and I apologize. Let me just say that the whole cost of telecommunications is one that I have instructed our staff to look at. You know, we got sort of 106 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the headlines on eliminating phone lines, which to me is somewhat of a no-brainer, but there's a bunch of other initiatives going on, and I will provide with you what those initiatives are and what we see the savings being in undertaking those items. I think you will be impressed that we have a lot of things going on, have been going on, and continue to be going on. I think getting our arms around the different cell phones is another issue that we've been trying to do and, frankly, get from the vendors by department the costs, the usage costs of the cell phones so that we can start to centralize that and understand where those costs are coming from and so forth. So I think your concerns are warranted and it's something that we're working on. I'm trying to get my arms around it and I will provide you with additional data.
Thank you. And I would like to also complement the School District in reference to the energy conservation issue. I think that is a great job in identifying the cost savings. And, again, this 107 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING information is important. Now I'm able to communicate, and I'll explain for those that might not be familiar with this issue, there's been some criticism about the District leaving lights on at schools at night unnecessarily. And a little bit of information goes a long way, and it's interesting that you've negotiated with the union the ability to do maintenance work during the overnight hours so they can't work in the dark, so they need to have lights on.
But it would have been -- now that I know this, I have no problem now being able to respond to a constituent that says, Can you believe it, at George Washington High School, all of the lights are on. And now I'll say, Yeah, because they're inside because of some creative techniques that they're working during the overnight hours 'cause the building is used probably from 6 o'clock in the morning to 10 o'clock at night, and you just can't clean and have people around. So this is very important and it's impressive with the energy conservation effort 108 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that the School District is undertaking.
We will try to, you know, continue to share information like that with you. My guess is we probably do a better job than people think but not as good a job as we should, and we have a lot of work ahead of us to do to manage the school system the way I think we all aspire to.
That's why we like to end on a positive note. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, everybody. I wanted to revisit, if I could, information around the MBE/WBE activity. I know you did mention that we would get the additional information, and I have received some additional information, but I need to put some realities on the record. Help me first with the reporting line. What is the reporting line internally with regards 109 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING to the office that oversees MBE/WBE activity? Who reports to. . . (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. I'm Tom McGlinchey, Chief Operating Officer for the School District. Councilwoman, the Office of Small- Business Development reports to the Chief Operating Officer.
Okay. So the final checkoff with regards to the awarding sits in whose lap?
The Office of Small-Business Development reviews every Board award and Board resolution that approves service for anything for the School District. So that office essentially looks at every procurement for the District.
You said that the head of the Office of Small-Business Development reports to the Chief Operating Officer? 110 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Is there a board subcommittee that oversees the activities of this office?
Okay. But that's helpful to us in terms of getting --
Well, Councilwoman, there is a board committee for facilities, purchasing, and equal opportunity. To the extent that that function relates to small-business development, then yes, the Board does have a committee to oversee that.
There's a committee, which is the Facilities, Purchasing and EEO Committee that's chaired by Vice President Dorothy Sumners-Rush. EEO, including small-business development. We treat small-business development and EEO issues together generally.
And just in terms of recent 111 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING news, although I -- I was at a different Board meeting and was not at the last meeting or two meetings ago of that committee. There has been discussion going on in that committee about some -- renewing some efforts that had been discussed some years ago, including the possibility of prequalification processes and things like that that are still in the development stage, but I understand that that committee at its last meeting did have staff reporting on small-business development and EEO issues, particularly in the construction area.
In construction. Okay, that's one -- I have thee areas here.
And that committee also regularly asks questions both at the committee and at the board about minority bidding and purchasing. I don't know of many Board meetings where the question isn't asked with respect to contracts that come before the Board for approval. And it's a -- and it's a discussion that is going on, and Mrs. Rush --
And I might add -- and 112 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the President can correct me if I'm wrong, but every resolution that comes before the Board on purchasing designates how many minority bidders there were and if they did not -- if they were not the successful bidder, why they were not the successful bidder. So that comes through on every purchasing agreement.
So there's some examination as to why either MBE or WBE firms ultimately do not end up the awardee.
I mean, just to kind of give you some more -- perhaps I should invite to you a committee meeting where we talk about this, 'cause there are a number of things that have happened over the year. In addition to designating documents showing whether it's WBE or MBE, we also started probably a year or two go asking questions about the winners, you know, how long has this bidder been bidding on a project, you know, who had this project, who won this bid last time.
What's the history? 113 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
We also want to, you know, keep an eye on the competitive aspect and make sure that the District's providing opportunity for competition and for small-business opportunity.
Well, all of those observations become important when we know that at least 41 percent of the School District's operating dollars come from local -- at least as the City's contribution, and my numbers tell me that amounts to about 599 million, yet we have one contract in the area of design and construction that was awarded to a minority in the March 2000 report and 1 percent of the dollars and 5 percent contracts went to women for materials management, so if you have a database of 3,000 and this is based on information that you've provided, if you have a database of 3,000 minority and women-owned business, yet we end up with single digits, specifically percent, that is troubling.
And so I'm happy to learn that at the Board level now, there is a serious look at that because five years ago, it was 2 percent, and I only anyhow know that 'cause 114 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING it was in 1995, and that was a year where I had to study what was happening in an area that I care about. So it's troubling, and I would encourage you to do whatever needs to happen internally to change these numbers because 1 percent is terrible.
We will certainly take that back, Councilwoman. I think you probably know just from your knowledge of the Board members that this is an -- you know, this is an issue of concern to all of the members of this board and something we're grappling with, probably similar to issues that the City deals with in publicly-bid contracts and some of the obstacles that there are for -- particularly if for small businesses in bidding large contracts, and sometimes -- and Ms. Smallwood, our small-business development officer, would say, you know, there are time when they are able to, at no loss to the District, to break up contracts.
And provide opportunities, and sometimes that results some in small businesses having opportunities and sometimes it doesn't.
And in defense, I know of the competency in both Riva Smallwood and Nancy Lewis, and I trust that they're doing everything they are able to at their level, but someplace between where they are and at the Board level in terms of oversight, something is happening or not happening. So know that an interest exists at this level with an improvement in that area, and just keep us informed. Because if 41 percent is coming from local contributions, then the number of the percentage of contracts going to MBE and WBE should in some kind of way mirror that if we have a database of 3,000. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
I'd like to go back a moment to the line of questioning with 116 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Councilman Nutter on the parent co-op nurse program. My understanding is that currently, the parent contribution is $25 a month, and we're discussing -- staff has recommended an increase to $85 a month -- $81 a month, I'm sorry, 81. And that's going to raise approximately $200,000.
Okay. I want to thank you for providing me the information that I asked for relative to the travel budget, and I recognize that with the large size of this overall budget here with the School District that 1.4 million really isn't all that much money in the scheme of things. However, I harken back to one of my favorite movies. Have you ever seed a movie called "Dave"?
It's with Kevin Kline, Charles Grodin, and Frank Langella.
Well, Dave becomes because President of the United States because the 117 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING President had a stroke and he's disabled.
And he's in the basement on life support, and Dave becomes the President. And him and his personal accountant, Charles Grodin, sit down at a cabinet meeting and actually go through and start figuring out what they're going to cut and wind up saving a couple hundred millions to save, I think, a day care program, I think it was, as a matter of fact. Could we do without $200,000 less of travel in 2001? I mean, I'm not even questioning whether the travel in effect is a bad thing 'cause I see some things in here that make some sense. There's some conferences and other things that probably people should attend. And I look at the 2001 projected, or at least for the first three months of 2001, we're at about 400,000 now, so we're on a pace of about 1.6 as opposed to about 1.4 last year. Is there a possibility we could cut $200,000 out of a 1.4 or a $1.6 million travel budget and keep the parent co-op just the way it is, by using David and Charles Grodin-like 118 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING accounting methods?
I just saw another movie which I rented, a Peter Sellers movie, where he became the President -- he was the gardener.
He was a gardener for 40 years and this his patron dies and they let him out in the street.
In any event, the answer is -- I did recently put out new processes, which I took to the Board, which they approved, to get a better handle on travel and conferences. And I think Councilman Cohen said -- I mean, conferences are important, they're important for 119 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING professional development and so forth. It's important, however, that we have a focus on what they're being used for and we reduce the numbers and so forth. And the new process, which took effect March 1st so it's not reflected in the numbers you have numbers, will now kick in. And Dr. Farmbry review it from an educational perspective and I review it from a different set of eyes.
And I'm not suggesting that we eliminate it. I think it's something that needs to be done.
Yeah, I understand, and I want to get to your question about if we can reduce the $200,000. I don't know. Maybe. And whether that should be used to fund PCN and so forth, I think the context that I think we have to keep in perspective, we also have a $191 million deficit, and so every dollar we save has got to go there, and there's a whole bunch of needs -- not just with PCN but in our schools and so forth. I personally think we've got to be aggressive in looking at this stuff and we've got to move the resources, as I said the other day, 120 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING back into the classroom.
But if, in effect, we raise it to 81 and parents drop out of the program because of the inability to pay, isn't that a self-defeating scenario for the program itself? 'Cause then the argument will be made, you know what, why do we really need this program 'cause nobody's using it anyway, 'cause people can't afford it. And, therefore, the program has a possibility in the next year or the year after of being determined not to be worth it and kind of getting rid of it.
I think those are, you know, valid concerns. I think the other valid concern that we're all concerned about is stabilizing our programs and that if we don't charge anything and if we have too much of a, you know, too much of a gap in what our expenditures are and our revenues, that's going to destabilize programs. And I know there's a fine line between, you know, how you transition into that. But I think the worst thing that could happen is that we constantly look at that program, or any program, as a loser, it's a loser, loser, 121 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING and then after a while, it falls down because we haven't stabilized it. So I think that's a fine line that we're trying to walk, and this issue of fairness where we really started out, you know, last year, as I understand it, the recommendation that the Board approved was $50. And we can -- and having heard from parents and others and understanding the concerns, we have come down to $14. And I know any fee increase always makes people unhappy in any enterprise, and we understand that, and we're just trying to find the right balance here, and I don't expect anyone to be particularly happy or comfortable with what the results are. And that's what makes it difficult.
And, again, I'm not making -- I'm not making, you know, a subjective analysis that somehow this travel isn't important.
But when you look in the scheme of things, the Parent Cooperative Nursery, you know, other types of programs, again, that are dealing with children and with students, you know, it's like I'd like to drive, you know, a 122 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Lexus, but, you know, but my family car is a Sable 'cause I can't afford the Lexus. And I'm wondering whether or not we should be looking at all of these areas and hopefully I'm sure you are, but at some point in time, we have to start making the actual cuts. So, I mean, if --
Councilman Kenney, if I can clarify. The School District cut its travel budget by percent. 12
Going into this fiscal 14 year. And the numbers that you're looking at for 15 Fiscal Year 2001 actually go for the first eight 16 months of the fiscal year, so we expect to bring 17 our travel expenses down for a combination of 18 budget cuts and a new travel policy by more than a 19 half, from 1.4 million to just under $700,000 for 20 this year. 21
All right. Well, 22 hopefully, that is the case. But, again, when it 23 comes to these kinds of areas that are 24 questionable as to whether or not they're 25 absolutely needed and when we have a program that 123 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING is apparently very popular and very effective, that a raise of this significance is going to put people out of it and, therefore, potentially hurt it long term or eliminate it long term, I really think if we have to make a decision, I'd rather get rid of things like this than get rid of things like that.
And I understand that, and I think I'm pleased that Miss Chatzkel pointed out the significant cuts, and I agree we need to do more cutting wisely, and that's what we're doing as we go through our budget process. I mean, we're in the process of going through the budget process and to do those things. I should also point out -- I mean, some of the challenges we face as we go through the budget process is, we not only have issues like PCN, but the poverty rate in this city has declined, which is good news. The bad news is that we're going to have, I believe, $12 million less in Title monies that our schools have received in the past, you know, several years. So if we go through looking at the funding and the allocations for our schools, we're not only faced 124 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING with issues like PCN, we're also faced with the day-to-day K-to-12 challenges that we have because of a reduction in Title 1 monies through good news, to the extent that that's good news. So these are the balancing act that we're going through and which I know Council appreciates.
Can I shift for a moment to the issue of magnets and academies and admission criteria. There's been an ongoing philosophical battle in many areas of the City as it relates to very successful and very sought-after magnet programs and the special academy programs that are in the comprehensive high schools. And a lot of complaints have been regarding a perceived change, or an actual change, in the standards for admission. That if a child want to be involved in animal husbandry or in engineering or in science or math or law and have an avocation for that particular type of work, that they seek out and try to attend Saul and other schools that provide that kind of opportunity. And then we have the issue of putting 125 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING kids into these schools by lottery, some of which children maybe don't express an avocation or desire to be there, but their parents would like them there, and I've heard anecdotal stories about children who have gotten into Saul, for example, because the parents wanted him there but he didn't like animals, which is a pretty tough place to be if you don't like animal. So then the child didn't participate, took up a space that could have been used for someone who didn't get for the lottery, and wasn't necessarily a discipline problem but certainly wasn't engaged in the process of learning because he or she -- I'm not sure if it was a boy or girl -- didn't want to be there. What's the situation now? And in the last administration, I sensed a real dislike, or disdain, for magnets or for specialized schools in that the last superintendent wanted every comprehensive high school to be a successful school, and that is our goal. And when asked the question as to how long would that take, four or five years was usually the answer. And I guess if you're the parent of an 8th-grader, it's a pretty 126 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING bad answer. What are we doing with admission criteria, magnets, academies, and what's our current situation?
Well, why don't I start, and Dr. Farmbry can pick up, because part of this, as you know, was a conversation that became a Board conversation a couple years ago, and we had -- you know, we talked about it here at City Council. And I think you'd be right to characterize a policy shift -- you know, a couple policy shifts that happened back then. One that there was a -- that programs that previously had used criteria were being mostly moved to a more lottery-type system, and there was a lot of resistance then. And you will remember that City Council was very interested, there was some concern at the Board, and I guess the famous anecdote about this was that Mayor Rendell came to a Board meeting to talk about the admission criteria issue. The Board subsequently sought out to really try to address the concerns that were -- 127 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that the former superintendent was trying to address with kind of one approach. We tried to address 'em in a more tailored approach. And the result has been an expansion in the number of programs in the City -- and we can, I'm sure, get you that stuff -- that use admissions criteria. The ability of schools to -- well, the main thing the Board did was say that schools can have admissions criteria, but your School Council has to make the decision that you want admissions criteria, and the admissions criteria have to, you know, have to show that, you know, that they've been thought out and are reasonable. And a number of schools that had criteria before continued, most of 'em. And the number of new schools started and the net effect has been more kids going to these magnet-type programs and greater diversity. We also moved from having one citywide fair that used to be at the old Civic Center to neighborhood fairs, and that had an effect, as you would suspect, on applications. And there was a group that you participated in, the Admissions Criteria Monitoring Committee. Councilman Nutter is there 128 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING from time to time, Councilman Rizzo always there, or has a representative there, and Councilwoman Miller, I think, from time to time also has had an representative there. And it's where we basically watch what's going on so that we balance the -- what the community wants, which is programs like this versus some of the, you know, some of the equity issues. And this, you know -- and generally, I think it's gone pretty well. Once in a while, you hear a program where, you know, the question is asked, why is there only one or no students of color in this program? Or why, you know, if this -- you know if there's a student with a disability that applied and never got an answer, was this student considered, because, you know, we also find that with accommodation, some students, you know, have done very well. So what it's done, I think, has become a much more kind of finely-tuned process, at least from the Board's perspective looking out on it and less of a broad-brush perspective.
Could I get a list of those schools that have admission criteria and 129 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING those that are either a lottery or a combination of both?
We can get you that list. I also want to reiterate what Mr. Ramos --
'Cause this is something I think is also a big change. If you just look from a parent perspective, a couple major changes. One is the application itself. It now has all of the admission criteria programs together and you can see -- you can apply to them. And it used to be that you got -- it was a fragmented way of responding to parents and students that if you applied to do a Central and applied to the Communications Academy, you know, at a comprehensive high school, you would get -- it would presume that if you applied to Central that you didn't want to consider the others. It automatically put you in there and closed out the other. Now parents, I understand, I believe, get -- you're told what schools you're admitted to and then you pick. So on the consumer side, it's a lot 130 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING friendlier.
I was going to say that in our empowerment plan, there is a bullet that speaks directly to supporting the notion of choice within the public school system. And I think that parents, through the passing of that Board resolution, I guess it's two or three years now, have really exercised expanded choice within the school system, and there really has been a growth in the number of criteria-based program. What we're also finding is that because the criteria-based programs really do increase the school's responsibility, that after you've interviewed the students and had a writing sample and really taken time to ascertain that a child definitely wants this program, then once the child's in, we really are holding schools responsible for putting the supports in place for making sure the child can then stay.
So attendance and behavior and other things in the -- once admitted, are issues for retaining that student.
Are issues for retaining that student, but it also means that schools do 131 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING have to take very seriously a process that we have, called "Comprehensive Support Process," or CSP, where teachers actually sit down and review the progress of a child periodically to make sure we can put supports in place. And, of course, there has to be time for teachers to sit down during the day to do that.
I want to go back to one other thing you said 'cause you mentioned the lottery, and I want to make sure that, you know, you didn't get -- that you have the right impression about this. And this is the same as when we discussed it at the admissions criteria committee. There is still some element of lottery, but you only get into the lottery after the school has said that you're qualified. So, I mean, that's the only -- it's very narrowed down, it's not what it was.
Thank you, Madam 132 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Chair.
I want to say that comments made by Councilman Nutter in terms of the parents cooperative, I don't think need to rehash that issue, but go for the same line with me. It is a program that has functioned, it's a program that working-class people can afford at this present time, and if we don't make it available for working-class people, we pretty soon won't have any working-class people in Philadelphia. But, Pedro we've had -- and I've talked to Mr. Goldsmith during the last few days because all of a sudden, I'm getting a whole rush of lead issues into the office. I attended a couple of meetings in the community the other day at the Welsh School, and we've had hearings on the lead question, and we're supposed to have another one coming up just to review the issue. Because I know that attempts were being made, and we've been petitioned to be able to see how we can manage during this period of time. And the thing is that I don't believe 133 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING that information is getting down to the parents, which is what I found at the meeting I attended the other day, as to what -- the what the resolutions can be, how to go about it, and I think we should attend to it. I think information is one of the things that these parents -- I gave Mr. Goldsmith, I think, like five schools that we've got questions on. And the parents are -- and I know that these parents have questions, and I don't believe the principals are -- specifically one principal I'm, and not going to name him, but he gave the wrong information or was not giving certain type of information to some of the parents. So I -- I think we have to revisit the issue and -- because I know that we're dealing with it but I would like to see what information we got, how we're handling it and the availability of bottled water and the policies for water in different schools. I think parents are confused about that, and I think it's creating perhaps problems that we don't need at this time.
Councilman, if I may, and I'll then ask Mr. McGlinchey to respond. 134 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I think you're right. I think the issue is more of a communication issue than the substantive issue of lead in the water that the four schools that you mentioned to me have all been, you know, been tested, they've all been given a clean bill of health. And so it may be that we're not just getting that message to the schools in an adequate way and it may have to bear repeating it because obviously, there's a sensitivity out there. So I think your point about the communications is well-taken.
Well, let me say that in, for instance, the Welsch School that has, I think, close to 900 students, they only have one or two fountains open. That's what the parents told me. I see you shaking your head, but I was at a meeting with parents the other night and that's what they said to me. One on the third floor and one on the fourth floor. And what they were afraid of is that they don't know how the water in the bathrooms are and that some of their kids were going into the bathrooms, and because of the lack of fountains 135 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING and the availability of water, some of the kids were, when the parent asked them questions as to where they drank water from, they said they go and drink from the bathroom. And I know that there are signs in the bathroom with red -- you know, with the X and so on. But kids -- you know, kids are not going to listen to that. And so, according to the parents, there's only two there. And other parents in the schools that I gave you. So what I'm saying is, their reality is this, and they might be -- they're being told something else and they're obviously concerned about their kids. I told them, I said I would send my kid with bottles of water into the schools.
Councilman, let me just give you an idea of the decision process with regard to providing bottled water to a school. Back in October of '99, a decision was made to provide bottled water to 100 schools that had not yet been tested. Now, since that time, as the school is tested and as we identify outlets -- drinking water outlets within that school that are acceptable, we will take that bottled water away 136 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING from the school only if there are enough outlets existing according to Philadelphia health codes for the occupants of that school. So it is not true that Welsh only has --
So in a school of 800, close to 900 kids, how many water fountains should there be?
There are more than two. I can assure you there are more than two.
What I'm saying to you is, I was there this week, on Friday, actually I think it was, but they told me two, okay?
Well, we'll send someone out to check, but when your inquiry was forwarded to me from Mr. Goldsmith, I did make that call, and I was told how many outlets were there. It certainly was more than two, but I will double-check that for you. Let me get to the sink issue. When any outlet, whether it be drinking water or water in 137 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the bathrooms, whenever those outlets are identified as exceeding the acceptable level, they are taken out of service, shut off. They should not be able to be turned on by anyone. As a precaution, and according to a suggestion from the EPA, we do post signs in the bathrooms, which say "Do Not Drink From These Sinks." However, should the child ignore those signs, only those outlets in those bathrooms that have shown to be below the acceptable level provided by the EPA would be available. So we don't want them to drink from the sinks, but we do shut off those sinks where the testing has shown that they exceeded the EPA levels.
Well, I think the parents of those schools should have meetings. And Bethune, McKinley, Hunter, I gave -- and communications be -- and I think the principals should be told as to what the processes are. And parents want to know because they seem to have the idea that in order to have bottled water, they would have to make a decision about their budget to cut something else in order to have bottled water and -- 138 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
When bottled water is provided, it does not theoretically come out of the school budget. Everything obviously always come bout of the school budget because we only have so much money.
And one administrator is going to be put into a position in which he is going to have decide if it's books versus clean water.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. So when there is that need because we haven't been able to get the okay, then we provide the bottled water. But I think you're right, I think it's 139 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING a communications issue, and I think we've told the principals, but we tell the principals a lot of things, and so I think we probably have to reiterate it 'cause they get a lot of, you know --
Obviously, you know, something is not -- because I have a petition in my office which I'm going to give you with -- it's over here.
Okay. My staff says we need it back because we need to make copies at least for us. Okay, so this is a ceremonial handing of it. Okay. And you can see their concerns that obviously something is not kosher.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 140 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. When was the last addition to the sites of the parent cooperatives? When was the last new one?
One of the staff will know the answer to that. (Witness comes forward.)
Jennifer Plummer-Davis, Director of Parent Cooperative Nurseries. We have not had any new locations in recent years. In 1998, we relocated into the H.A. Brown School, but that was just a relocation from another site. There have not been any new locations since the '80s.
Well, presently in the budget, it's budgeted for 22 classrooms, and we have 20 classrooms presently operating. And new locations come about if there is a site, a 141 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING facility available, a classroom space available.
I mean, do parents make requests, or does the School Board decide it's time to create a new one and that hasn't happened for several years at least and locate -- does the School Board locate the site and announce the opening of a new site?
It's basically a needs assessment based on the community and how well the community would use that program. And currently in the budget, it's only for the 13 classrooms, so there has been no increase. 14
Well, the reason I 15 raise the question is that all my recent reading 16 on education seems to conclude that the sooner a 17 child gets into an educational atmosphere, the 18 better the long-term prospects are for the child's 19 development so that this notion of a 20 prekindergarten, which in this case, it's a 21 combination of a day care and an educational 22 component with the patients feeling very -- that it's really an important educational component, and I think the staff at the School District, I think they ought to be complimented for the way in 142 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING which they've dealt with this program, because I think it's been a very real educational experience. And I can't understand why it's limited basically to the Northeast or Northwest and why -- I asked Councilman Kenney in the Council Caucus a moment ago, Are there any in South Philadelphia? and he said he didn't know of any. And I said why? He didn't know why, he thought maybe there no need, maybe there were more day care seniors. I said, Well, in the Northwest, we're loaded with, you know, in ordinary houses day care centers. But is there any explanation as to why it's only in the Northeast and the Northwest?
Well, originally, our parent cooperative nurseries classrooms, they were all over the City, but as the population changed and as our parents moved to different parts of the City, our classrooms basically followed them, but we are in agreement with, as far as early childhood education, because the School District has increased its services for preschool education by 50 percent. Last year, we increased in our Head Start program. We also have 143 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING our Comprehensive Day Care program, which services over 2,000 children.
But I know of no 5 program that get the kudos as much as this program, and I know it over many years, 'cause, as I mentioned in your earlier testimony, I was a lawyer who initiated the action -- I think it was with Councilman O'Neill actually at the time, about or years ago, when the Board first 11 began making a decision that it really couldn't 12 afford it. It didn't seem then to make any sense, 13 as it doesn't seem now. 14
You're lucky that Councilman Nutter is much more reasonable than I am. I see no justification at all for any raise in the cost. If anything, since it's a public school-sponsored activity I think the movement ought to be in the other way since it is so important as an educational component. I think as soon as we get financially sound, that we would be hoping to increase the prekindergarten component to public education. And the nature of public education is that it ought to be free to 144 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING everyone. And I think this Parent Cooperative Nursery, I think there ought to be a way of expanding it despite financial problems. Doing what you're doing, creating an upset among all of the parents isn't really doing anything for your budget. You know, if you had your way, the deficit instead of being, what is it now, 297 million, some figure like that?
191 million. I guess I was anticipating those years down the road when you get to $750 million. Well, so it would be what, 190.8 million instead of 191 million. You know, it doesn't really do anything and it would seem to me that you wouldn't want to spend the time that you must have spent meeting with people, trying to work out something. You know, I'm at a loss to understand why it was so important to get involved in deciding that we got to economize in this area.
Well, I think, Councilman 145 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Cohen, there are probably two things that we're grappling with. One, just to deal -- I'll come to the specific question. On a general level and your issue of availability of prekindergarten programs, you know, what the Board is very interested in and part of this whole effort with the City and United Way and looking at citywide is, I suspect that there are probably parts of the City that are being underserved in programs such as Head Start and CDC, and not because a decision -- anyone's making a decision to ignore it, but because there hasn't really been that comprehensive look. And it may be that -- and as you know, Head Start, and you probably agree, it is a program that is a nationally-funded program and one that at least here in Philadelphia has gotten a lot of compliments, a lot of support. And, you know, and I would expect that there are parts of the City where the District previously thought people didn't qualify for Head Start, where they probably now do. And we have to be a lot more vigilant about meeting that demand, and there is funding for that in the federal government. 146 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING In CDC, which is a State-funded program, I think, you know, we could do better at matching the service with the need, but that's also a State-funded program under. And that program, parents pay anywhere from $10 they if make less than $7700 a week (sic) to $50 a week if make over $41,000. At the median family income, parents who demonstrate -- who provide proof of income pay around $36 a week in that program. And it's a program that, you know, we're also having some trouble with, as I know from staff reports, because of some of the welfare reform legislation and the burdens that it's putting on those parents to stay -- to be eligible to be able to continue in the program. Some of those parents, you know, we're losing a lot of those that are eligible and need the service because of the requirements that are being imposed on us for, you know -- and staff can talk more about the verification requirement under the welfare reform legislation. So part of what's going on too -- I mean, I agree that in -- my also as a layperson, everything I read says, you know, the sooner you start, you do better. And it's particularly true 147 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING in most of the research that I've seen been and has been reported to me with respect to low-income students, low-income children. And we need to provide both -- you know we feed to do that, though the -- with PCN, you don't have the Head Start funding, you don't have the CDC funding, and you have, by some accounts, terms that are favorable to the CDC terms. And so I think, part of what the Board is grappling with trying to preserve all of them, trying to figure out a more comprehensive way of doing it, but also trying to be fair across the system. And I think, you know, the issue of, you know, how much is your increase is a legitimate question of fairness, but I think another legitimate issue of fairness is, are you treating people similarly, you know, for a similar thing. And I --
And I'm very concerned in the reevaluation that you're doing. I don't hear the expressions that I would like to hear about how we're going to safeguard this kind of program, 'cause I think this is a very unique program and it could do so much for the City of 148 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Philadelphia. What I heard this morning on the radio in an advertisement about the City of Philadelphia making a very real effort and has a special program aimed at keeping young graduates of the universities in the Philadelphia area in Philadelphia and --
And a program like this would mean so much to young people in making a decision as to whether Philadelphia is a desirable place, you know, to stay, and if I get married and have kids, what is being offered to us. And I think we're, you know, not taking advantage of that opportunity. We do some things to try to win people over, and then we sort of cut off our nose to spite our face apparently and show a lack of sensitivity in other areas. I think this is a wonderful program that would win people to staying in Philadelphia.
Well, one of the things that there's been limited discussion of but, you know, the Board has raised is an issue as we look at the citywide effort. I mean, this is the more 149 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING long-term thing, which is to go to your point of how do, you know, is there some thinking going on about how to preserve and expand. You know, one of the issues we'll be looking at is, should we be making programs more similar. Instead of having three silos, should we be providing a program -- you know, should we be really trying to bring these together, including, if we have the ability down the road, to blend the money, so you're not just compartmentalizing according to, you know, this program is for folks that fall below this line, but in a sense, try to get a more blended way of funding programs, and then being driven by the program by the needs of the students as opposed to the funding source.
But here you have a program operating, and from everything we hear, very successfully. Why isn't it possible to put an end to all of the questioning and the concern of parents and reach a quick decision? Because I have to tell, I don't see Council acting on the school budget until, in my judgment, two questions are dealt with. One is the parent cooperative and the other is how we get 150 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING kids to ride to school without having in a family of two or three or four, choosing which kid goes to school that week, maybe no kid goes some weeks. But this parent cooperative one which involves so little money, I mean, if you accepted the proposal, my figure would have been to keep it at the $25, if there's going to be any cost, and try to scale that down, but apparently, if there's been an acceptance by the parents of a proposal for $41, why can't you reach a decision quickly and say while we're studying everything else, we at least want to put these parents to rest with their concerns. Why isn't it possible to arrive at a quick decision since it's an already-existing program?
Well, the Board of Education, like City Council, is a deliberative body, and yesterday, the Board heard for the first time the staff proposal that was being tossed around last week. The Board yesterday for the first time got the proposal from staff and also heard of the report on the meeting from the parent representatives on Friday. There was testimony yesterday from 151 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING parents raising some what I would call"fact questions" about even our methodology, whether even if you used our methodology, the numbers were right. And, you know, we're looking at that, as I committed to Councilman Nutter, and are also taking back to the Board the concerns, you know, of this body. And, you know, we hope to be able to get, you know -- reach resolution and in a way that parents know and in ample time for next year.
But first I want to express appreciation to you and Mr. Goldsmith for your courtesy in accepting the call that I made very early yesterday morning and interrupting for a minute or meeting so I could find out what your schedule was, and then for courtesy extended to my representative who was at the hearing. I was here at the hearing that was continuing. But having said that, and I really appreciated that courteous treatment, when you hear all of this concern from City Councilmembers, wouldn't it make sense to try to deal with the problem quickly, expeditiously? You know, it's not like getting a person up to the moon, you know, where you got to study all kinds of 152 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING technology as to how you're going to have this thing go up. Or is it that you are unable to do it because I know now, basically, it's a mayor-controlled situation. Before the amendment, the Mayor had to wait, like we in City Council often have to wait, on budgetary matters, 'cause the Board was independent and the staff had these four-year terms. But it seems to me that if the Mayor involved, a recommendation from you for a quick decision by him would probably be honored by him. I know he's gotten several messages from me on the subject and I think from other Councilmembers, and I think he's aware of the problem. So I'm just urging that you deal very quickly with the subject so that there's no need for anybody to consider holding up the education budget on that matter. Now let me shift to the other matter that I'm concerned with. Is there anybody here who would know what the administrative cost is to the School District of your current token and transfer program? 153 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING
Mr. Lombardi is not here because at this moment, we are planning for, hopefully, not a SEPTA strike, but we do have a group that as we speak now planning, and Mr. Lombardo's a key member of that planning and that's why he is not here. When you say "administratively," do you mean what it costs in the schools to administer the program, or could you --
Well, all of the costs to the School District principally. There may be costs to SEPTA. It just seems to me that there's a tremendous amount of waste when there's such simple ways of getting people on buses and on public transportation. Because of my age, if I want to use, I can use my Social Security card. I'm told that in Pittsburgh, students oven merely have to show school their school identification card and ride at any time during the day, and the program seems to have worked very well from all of 154 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the reports we can get it of it, with no 3 problems. I don't know why you can't have a school identification card and eliminate whatever there is to the cost of tokens, the cost of transfers, the making availability of the -- making available the tokens to students. You don't need any administrative setup.
And I know that's not the school purpose, but that's SEPTA, but why can't we be working with SEPTA?
Well, we would like to, and my understanding is that there have been efforts -- obviously, they have not been successful. Some of it depends on technology, like, you know, smart cards and things like that, which just isn't here yet from SEPTA's perspective. And having some background in that. I understand it's easier said than done. Mr. Leary and I do have a meeting scheduled for, I think, next week, and hopefully, we can get the 155 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING ball moving and figure out a way to do this. I can assure you of one thing: We really do not want to be in business of providing tokens and administering tokens in our schools. Our principals and staff have enough to do, and one of our major attempts is trying to get people to focus on the business of education and not have to be distributing tokens and so forth. That's not our business, we probably don't do a real good job of it because that's not what we're trained to do. And so if we can sit down with SEPTA and try to resolve this issue, part of it is a technology issue and so forth. And no one would be more delighted to do it than the School District.
How you will read the swipe cards. If we're going to use the swipe cards our students use in school today, there's got to be a way to read those cards either to get the tokens or whatever the process is. I mean, that's simply one of them. 156 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING I'm not saying it's all technology, but there is issues that have to be resolved, and I can't speak to the background of why they haven't been resolved, but I know these things can be difficult aside from the fact that SEPTA's a regional agency, and they've got other school districts that would confuse the matter. There are issues of, you know, how you do this. I know they were doing a feasibility study a couple years ago, and I way to find out, you know, where that's at. And this is not the point the finger at SEPTA; they've got enough on their hands. All I can say is that it's in our interest as a school district to resolve this issue so we remove the impediments that exist for our kids to get to school, that we remove the administrative burdens that, you know, that plague us in the schools, and we have enough burdens that we have to deal with, so it's in our self-interest to do that, and that's where I want to work to. I can't speak to the issues of involving SEPTA 'cause I haven't sat down with them yet, but I plan to do that, and I think the 157 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING meeting is scheduled for next week or the week after.
You know, that concerns us. This issue has been around for a number of years. Now, I know you haven't been the CEO of the School District for very long, but we've never gotten any kind of action except the answer of no, that there isn't enough money enough or there isn't enough technology or there isn't enough of something or other. Why can't those meetings be speeded up?
Well, I think right now, he's probably got his hands full with a couple of other things going on, and I think --
But nothing's happening at the bargaining table, so I think he's got plenty of time.
Well, I can't speak to that, but we do have a meeting scheduled for early next week and there have been meetings. You know, my understanding is that the use of tokens has been around since the early '50s, and it wasn't until 1984 or 1985 where we 158 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING got into an issue of subsidizing tokens and so forth. So, you know, there's a history here that goes back 40, 45 years that we got to understand and so forth. But, you know, I share your concern, and I can't give you chapter and verse as to why it hasn't happened sooner, but I am aware of other school districts in Chicago and New York and elsewhere where it's done, and we got to understand what we can do to get it off the dime, if you will.
Well, would an appropriation of a small sum of money -- maybe 2 to $3 million -- be helpful in moving along if that money was limited to the purpose of providing free transportation, say, for children, and could we find out whether that work and how it works?
As long as it's part of a larger appropriation from City Council. That's a different story, but, you know, I mean, 159 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING obviously that would help, you know, both financially and try to do what we do in this issue. I don't want to minimize the issue. I think it's important, you know, it's important to get kids to school. But the issue, and I really can't underestimate this and maybe it's 'cause I'm new here and I'm blowing it out of proportion, but the issue is just not getting kids to school; the issue we're facing now is having schools that we can open next September, and that's the real issue that we are wrestling with, and the magnitude of that is --
Why do you say that? I don't understand, I don't know why it's your concern. There are people that can do that -- the person that has to be able to that is the Mayor. There's no way you're going to -- the School Board can produce money.
The Mayor, through the dealings with the Governor, the Council, and maybe the President. I think the federal government intends to play a strong role in 160 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING helping to finance education; otherwise what the President says makes no sense. I think he wants to make sense and I think he wants to score some political points and maybe some educational points by showing a strong support for public education, and because the federal government puts in money doesn't mean they have to control education. The same controls can exist as now. But I don't see how the School Board can do that except what you can do is in the area, say, like this parent cooperative, encourage it and publicize it and let the students graduating in the junior and senior and senior year know that if they stay in Philadelphia, this kind of a program is going to be available to them when they get married. I don't know about the Head Start program, I don't know the specific details well enough to know whether that is something that also would be helpful, and if it is, that ought to be publicized that Philadelphia is a place where a young family with generally smaller income can get an excellent beginning for their children in the field of education. I think that would really 161 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING keep young brain power here in Philadelphia rather than having this drain on brain power that the Philadelphia advertisement was dealing with, and I'm trying to fine ways to encourage it.
You know, I don't you kind of get a sense of (inaudible) about the fact that some Philadelphia kids can't get to school because there's no money for it and we think we have a good public school education process here? I know we have a good one, I'm a product of it and my four kids are a product of it, and my wife was a product of the public school system in New York. Somehow I managed to get through the University of Pennsylvania and lead the law school class with this public education I got in the public schools, and it wasn't Central; it was Northeast, which was at that time the Northeast Manual Training School. So I think we have -- you know, we have a basically very sound public school system, if we can make it work all throughout the City of Philadelphia. And then you have this very innovative program, and instead of supporting it and really 162 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING getting national attention for it 'cause I don't think many places have a program like this parent cooperative. You know, I think we ought to utilize it. And the other question is, how do you get all of the kids to school, you know, in a free public school system. So I would like to urge a sense of urgency. SEPTA will never feel urgent. I don't think they need any new equipment, whatever. I don't think there's any more cost to them. And if occasionally in one neighborhood, everything will be crowded, I think maybe we can, with your cooperation, can maybe adjust school hours if necessary to meet the transportation needs. In most places, that won't be necessary; they have a lot of, you know, present transportation equipment.
And this is the first real conversation we've had since the time I think I drove you around City Hall one day, right after you had left the Rendell Administration. I 163 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING think I was traveling in the car and you were walking, and I asked you what you were going to do, and I said you were too good for us to lose in public service.
Thank you. You have a far better memory that than I do, and I appreciate it. Thank you.
Councilman, I know you touched on the tokens or transportation issue. Did you ask the question as to how much that would cost to provide tokens to the students?
I asked the question, but there was nobody here to answer it as to what it would cost.
Well, I think that this has been discussed for some time. I'm sure that somebody must an indication.
And what does that do; is that for all students?
$2.5 million right now is the net unreimbursed cost to the District in providing free and reduced tokens to the current population of students that use them, which is not all students.
And any proposal, I think, has to cover (inaudible), Madam President.
I think any program has to cover those students other than public schools. I think any transportation program has to cover in the parochial and the private school kids of the same age. Otherwise, you know, I think if the parents have a choice of sending the children elsewhere, we've still got to cover them. So if it's 2.5 for public, there has to be 165 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING something added for the non-public schools.
Just to clarify. The $2.5 million is now the net unreimbursed cost to the School District. The students that buy tokens, that pay that reduced rate contribute another $7.9 million.
Well, Madam President, I think a fund of 2.5 to $3 million to provide transportation. . .
Just one point of information. I didn't understand the last -- either didn't understand or didn't hear completely what Miss Chatzkel said. I heard a number of $7.9 million. I don't know what that number went with and I don't know what that number means in relationship to the 2.5.
The total payments made to SEPTA this year, the projected payments for free and reduced -- free-to-students and reduced- cost-to-students tokens is in excess of $15 million. Students contribute about 166 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING $7.9 million when they pay 90 cents instead of $1.15 for a reduced-cost token.
The School District pays for the rest, about $7.5 million, but we are reimbursed for about two-thirds of that cost so there's a net cost to us after reimbursement of about $2.5 million.
If there were an aim to have somebody fully cover the cost, providing free transportation to this pool of students, it would be $2.5 million for the School District's unreimbursed portion and $7.9 million for what the current students pay.
So in a total free environment, is that what people are talking about?
And there's a question 167 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING also, Councilman, that --
Madam President, the Councilman's trying to get recognized.
$2.5 million is to reimburse the School District or to cover the School District's unreimbursed for what's happening now, the status quo.
If we were to deal with the 7.9 figure, is none of that reimbursable by the State?
No, that's not reimbursable by the State to the students who pay that cost.
If the School District were to cover the 7.9. Is any of that 168 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING reimbursable?
If the School District were to cover that 7.9, is any of that reimbursable by the state?
I can't answer with certainty. I think there's a possibility that we could receive additional reimbursement. We'd have to check the formula, the reimbursement formula.
I thought in the information that you submitted to me last week, that you said the cost of reducing student transportation costs per 5 cents of subsidy after the State reimbursement is $150,000, which means that this is a -- to eliminate 90 cents makes it a $2.7 million issue for the City and a $5.4 million issue for the State if that reimbursement takes place.
What I'll need to get back to you with Council and Councilman Goode is whether we can get 67 percent reimbursement if we were to pick up the full cost of tokens.
But if the State were to reimburse the full 67 percent of the 7.9, 169 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING then it would be reimbursing the School District for what's unreimbursed now, the 2.5, and reimbursing the School District's share would be roughly 5.2 million; is that correct?
So with State reimbursement at the current rate, it's a $5.2 million issue; without any State reimbursement, the 7.9 --
I'm sorry. Are you finished, Councilman? When you were talking about the cost, you said with this pool of students, how many various pools are there?
The reason I used the term "this pool" is because if free transportation is available to all students, then students right now who don't use transportation but in fact may be in walking distance to schools may want to have free transportation. And I don't know without the Head of Transportation here -- and even then I'm not sure of all of the students who might be 170 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING interested in free transportation in that instance.
What we do know now is we purchase tokens -- these would be the free tokens -- for 10,000 students. We purchase tokens and sell them at a subsidized rate for 20,000 students, so that's pool that we're dealing with now. If we were to provide free for everyone, then obviously, the usage may go up, and we just simply don't know what that number would be right now.
And I would apologize, President Verna, for asking this question in this way, but as I hear School District administration respond to the question, as a Board member, I'd have a question, which is the impact on non -- as a general rule, we hear that whatever service we provide to public school students we have to provide to non-public and charter school.
Yes. So I don't know what -- as we're giving these answers, I just want to just flag for our folks that I don't know whether 171 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the answers are including the impact, if any, on non-public schools. Just from a sidebar here is that Rhonda Chatzkel, our CFO, is saying that it's not -- it's not that clear that there would be a significant impact on account of non-publics because at least the initial belief is that we would get reimbursed similarly for charters and that we would get substantially made whole for non-publics.
That with respect to charters, Mrs. Chatzkel said that we -- they would be treated similar to our students, so the reimbursement would be the same, and with non-public students, that we are substantially made whole. And I hope that answer holds because. . .
I understand that there's a Mr. Lombardo who is very familiar with the facts involved, and I was wondering whether he might be available to be here at a slightly later 172 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING time this afternoon.
I understand that's in the course of his work that he --
Okay, Councilman, do you have any further questions?
No. I just wanted to make certain that Mr. Lombardo was produced.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be quick. Just very briefly on this school token issue, I know that Councilman Goode plans to have some hearings in this regard, and I'm sure -- and I'm sure he's made his own information requests. One of the things I wasn't crystal-clear about was, I guess going forward, what is the -- what's the goal as it relates to the transportation issue? Is it to -- I think in Miss Chatzkel's words, you talked about a pool of 173 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING students and then there might be another group of students that we don't even know about if it was completely free and available to everyone. And so are we trying to deal with the 10,000. I think you said 10,000 get it for free. Is based on some kind of income criteria or something?
I think as I understand the issue, it was to reduce the cost of the subsidized tokens as well as transfers.
Right, okay. Do the 10,000 that get the tokens free, is that income criteria or something?
Okay. And then the 20,000 who actually buy, so that gives us at least a pool of 30, and if went to a totally free situation, there might be some other group of students unknown to us today who might want to take advantage of that.
Is that kind of all of the various universes of students?
Yes. I think obviously 174 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING the demand would probably increase --
Right. Do you have any information, or could you at least get some information for whatever exists out there? We continue to hear about what other cities do outside of Philadelphia, some in Pennsylvania. I've read or heard Pittsburgh and Erie, and then I hear about other cities across the country. Could you get to us at some later but relatively soon point in time and information you are able to glean as to what those programs are. I mean, I'm actually somewhat intrigued as to the other cities in Pennsylvania and what they do and how they do it. They obviously don't deal with SEPTA, but there must be some public transportation system out there. And I would be interested in not only how they do it but who pays for it.
Okay, thank you. 175 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. Yesterday, we attended a meeting at Turner School. And this is for the future. I just wanted to speak to you in advance of a program we want to do. There we've had about four principals in maybe four years so, you know, we've had a new principal, new leadership at the school. And we are trying -- with the hotel tax money, we are trying to generate a program there to do hospitality training, a job skills program for people in the neighborhood with Universal, with the University of Pennsylvania, some other trainers and the school. Now, there is space there that hasn't been used for at least 15 years -- you know, an industrial arts place, a kitchen, and the whole bit. And, of course, you know the new principals 176 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING said, of course, there may be plans for it and that a commitment could not be made. And what we wanted to do is -- I'll be in contact with you in detail in the future, but we just wanted to give an advance about that, about using vacant space that hasn't been used in years. There's a whole wing in the school that 9 hasn't been used -- only community uses it. It's 10 called "Support Our Community Organization," 11 SOCCA. The leader there is Pat Evans. And they 12 run a program from 3 to 10, a voluntary program 13 and have for years. 14 We worked with them for years in that 15 unused wing, but we really would like to create a job skills program out of that vacant space, and pretty much I think all it needs to be is be cleaned up, but we wanted to contact you in advance about that. And also ask if you will work with us on -- you know, there's a beautiful Olympic pool there that's not used, and we go through it every summer and try to find a lifeguard to hire, and we all try to pitch together, but I don't think it's being used during the school year either. You 177 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING could train people. It's fabulous. It's a beautiful, beautiful school. And so we need to deal with the swimming pool. So that's the second issue. And then the third thing is that they have an arts and music space there such as I've only seen at the School of Peforming Arts. I mean, they must have at least six or eight pianos alone there that are not used. And this is a building where we could have some kind of art and music focus. And in fact, we were trying to start a third district band and ask for materials, and here we have at least six or eight pianos alone -- I saw them yesterday -- that aren't even being used. You have practice rooms, you have everything there. So it really, really could be a model. And as I said, I haven't seen anything that nice other than at the School of Performing Arts. So, you know, we have great space there. It's a absolutely fabulous building. It doesn't have -- the only experience or the only record people hear about Turner was (indiscernible) in the past, but it's there, we have great space. We would really 178 3/13/01 - FINAL FY '02 BUDGET HEARING like to utilize it, and we certainly will be in touch with you about how we can do that. Thank you.
We appreciate it, Councilwoman Verna. I'm reluctant to do this, but just to make sure the record is clear, I misstated myself in saying that the free tokens are based on income. They're really based on desegregation and distance, so I just wanted to correct the record on that.
Thank you very much. Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until 1 o'clock tomorrow. (Adjourned 1:45 p.m.) 179 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, March 13, 2001, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BILL NO.'S 010001, 010002, 010003, 010004, 010005, 010011, 010012, 010013 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter