COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, May 1, 2002 2:20 p.m. - - - BILL 020244 - an ordinance authorizing the Ralston House, owner of the property 3615 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, PA 19004, to construct, own, and maintain underground conduit and pedestrian light post fixtures... BILL 020043 - an ordinance authorizing the paving of Britton Street and Clearview Street... BILL 020252 - an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 14 13-S... BILL 000547 - an ordinance regulating the movement of traffic on Chestnut Street... - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO, Chair COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 020244 NANCY SEN, Department of Streets .............. BILL 020043 PAUL LONIE, Department of Streets ............. BILL 020525 PAUL LONIE, Department of Streets ............. MARTIN SOFFER, City Planning Commission ....... 7 BILL 000547 WILLIAM JOHNSON, Department of Streets ........ 10 TONY GOLDMAN .................................. 20 PAUL LEVY, Center City District ............... 25 HOWARD TRACHTMAN, Parkway Corporation ..... 38 GEORGE SCHAEFFER, Kimmel Center................ 41 NANCY LAVIN, Philly Walks ..................... 43 CARL PRIMAVERA ................................ 48 RON BOWLAN, Jefferson University Hospital ..... 49 ANDREW MCLAUGHLIN, InterPark ................... 53 3 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES
Good afternoon, everyone. Although we don't have a quorum yet, there are a couple bills that we believe are non-controversial bills and I know if anyone will take us to court on those. So I'd like to begin to get the testimony because I really do want to apologize for your having to wait here. We are waiting for one other member of the committee or the Council President to establish the quorum. In the interim we will begin to take testimony in the public hearing. Council President is here. (Applause.)
Thank you. So officially, the hearing of the Committee of Streets the Service is now in session. We do have a quorum. To my immediate right is the Council President Anna C. Verna. To my left is Councilman Angel Ortiz. To my far right is Councilman Frank Rizzo and Councilmember Richard Mariano. Thank you, Council President, for helping us to establish the quorum. The Clerk will read the title of the first bill.
I'm going to go a little out 4 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020244 of order and begin with Bill No. 020244, an ordinance authorizing the Ralston House, owner of the property 3615 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, PA 19004, to construct, own, and maintain underground conduit and pedestrian light post fixtures and appurtenances in and under the right public right-of-way of the Chestnut Street north of the north curb line of Chestnut Street adjacent to the building 3615 Chestnut Street, all under certain terms and conditions. MS SEN: Good afternoon, Chairmen and Members of the Committee. My name is Nancy Sen, I'm an engineering supervisor for the Streets Department here to testify on Bill No. 020244. This bill authorizes the Ralston House, owner of 3615 Chestnut Street to construct, own and maintain the following encroachments on the north footway of Chestnut Street adjacent to their property. Five private aluminum pedestrian lights with junction boxes and one one-inch diameter conduit providing electric service to feed these pedestrian light posts. All encroachments leave adequate width and vertical clearance of unobstructed footway, therefore, the Streets 5 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020043 Department has no objection to the passage of the bill.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness from the Committee? Anyone else here who wishes to testify for or against the bill? Seeing none, the Clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill 020043, an ordinance 12 authorizing the paving of Britton Street and Clearview Street, under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee. My name Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager of the Department of Streets. The department would like offer the following testimony on Bill No. 020043: This is not an administration ordinance 21 but an ordinance requested by Mr. Alvero Costa (ph) of Costa Homes. The purpose of this ordinance is to grant the legal authority to pave Britton Street and Clearview Street for the development of new homes. This ordinance is supported by the Department of 6 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020043 Streets and is recommended to Committee for favorable action.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness from the committee? Anyone else here wishes to testify for or against the bill? Seeing none, the Clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 020252, an ordinance authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 13-S by striking from the City plan and vacating Lawrence Street from Wharton Street to Titan Street and Leithgow Street from Wharton Street to Titan Street by revising lines and grades of Reed Street from Reed Street to Wharton Street and Titan Street from Fifth Street to Fourth Street by placing on the City Plan Erb Street from Fifth Street to relocate Leithgow Street by striking from the City Plan and vacating certain portions of Erb Street from Fourth Street to Fifth Street by revising the lines and grades of Lawrence Street and Leithgow Street from Reed Street to former Erb Street, all under certain terms and conditions, including the dedication free 7 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020043 and clear of all encumbrances the beds of the proposed Erb Street not previously dedicated in the unopen portions of Reed Street, Lawrence Street and Leithgow Street.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee. Again, my name is Paul Lonie with the Department of Streets, and the Department would like to following testimony on Bill 10 No. 020252: This is not an Administration ordinance 12 but an ordinance requested by Mr. Jerry Newberg, Jefferson Square Community Development, 237 Tasker Street, Philadelphia. The purpose of this ordinance 15 is to grant the legal authority to revise the lines and grades of these streets to restore balance, remove blight and modernize the housing stock and infrastructure of the Jefferson Square community. This ordinance is supported by the Department of Streets and is recommended to your committee for favorable action.
Good afternoon Chairman and Members of the Streets and Services Committee. My name Martin Soffer representing the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I am here today to 8 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020252 testify on Bill 020252. The proposed street changes will permit the new construction or rehabilitation of approximately 100 dwelling units located in the Jefferson Square neighborhood of South Philadelphia. The master development plan with the proposed City Plan changes have been reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission staff on April 10, 2002. Therefore, the Planning Commissioner recommends that Bill 020252 be approved. Thank you.
Thank you. Any questions for these witnesses? Mr. Newberg would you like to testify or do you want to pass?
I'd like to thank members of this committee and City Council for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Jeremy Newberg and I'm the director of the Jefferson Square CDC. This is an extensive revitalization plan where we're really trying to change the past 100 to 150 years worth of land use. Mainly, it's abolishing obsolete streets that have become havens for absentee ownership and very blighted housing. By striking the streets that we request and widening the streets that we request we'll be able to 9 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020252 facilitate off-street parking with every single new house that we build. I want to thank the Streets Department and the Planning Commission for all their assistance in this process and hope that you will view this proposal favorably. Thank you.
Any questions for this witness? Anyone wish to see a chart? Anyone else here to testify on behalf of this bill or against it? Seeing none, the Clerk will read the title next bill. Thank you, Mr. Newberg. Thank you, Grant.
The last bill is Bill No. 18 000547, an ordinance regulating the movement of traffic on Chestnut Street, in particular authorizing right turns to be made from Chestnut at certain intersections in Center City Philadelphia.
Commissioner Johnson and whoever may be accompanying you. You're doing this solo today, Commissioner? Good afternoon, please identify yourself for the record. 10 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 020252
Good afternoon, Chairman and committee members. My name is William Johnson, Commissioner of the Department of Streets. I'm here to testify on Bill No. 000547. The Streets Department is not opposed to this bill, but we have concerns and propose courses of action to follow. I've already informed the FTA that, in my opinion, the Chestnut Street project cannot function as designed. There are vehicles constantly blocking the travel lane, motorists routinely use the transit only lane to facilitate traffic flow, and motorists make illegal right turns. Enforcement efforts have failed to correct the problem. Emergency vehicles cannot get through and it's confusing to visitors. The last letter that the Streets Department received from the Federal Transit Administration requested that the City wait six months to evaluate the situation. It has been over a year since that letter was received. The Streets Department is prepared to conduct a study and work with the FTA to lift some restrictions on right-hand turns. This study will consider the safety of pedestrians and delays to transit that are caused by right turning vehicles. We will evaluate conditions 11 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 east of Broad Street first and then look at conditions west of Broad Street to fulfill our commitment to the FTA. Since the hospital is seeking relief, we will immediately request that right turns at 10th Street and Chestnut be permitted without penalty from the FTA and compare the operation at this intersection to Chestnut Street intersections at 8th and 12th Streets. We will be prepared to provide a report to this committee and the FTA within three months. We, therefore, ask this bill be tabled until we have finished our study and report back to this committee and FTA and receive any comments that they may have.
Thank you. Commission, in your testimony I may not have followed you as close as I should have. But in the second, the last letter that Streets Department received from the FTA requested the City wait six months. When was that letter?
I contacted the FTA over a year ago regarding Chestnut Street. They responded back over a year ago asking at the time that we wait six months before any action. 12 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547
I just wanted to make certain I was hearing that correctly. How long have you been the Streets Commissioner now?
I don't think you were Commissioner at the time we had the previous hearing on the same subject. You weren't the Commissioner then.
Because we had a lot of testimony at that time. It was fairly new, that meaning the restriction right-hand turns. I'm sure a lot of the testimony we're going to hear today is going to be basically a repeat of what we heard before. And I appreciate your openness in saying you recognize there are some serious problems out there. My only question is -- meaning no 23 disrespect because I have the highest respect for you, you've been one of the best Streets Commissioners I've had to deal with and I've said 13 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 that in many meetings past -- is that I really don't know what it is we need continue to wait for. I think it's very obvious to anyone who either walks or drives along Chestnut Street on any given day of the week, we realize we have a problem out there. I get letters, not as many as I used to, but a number of letters from people who are visiting our City come in to go either the Kimmel Center or the Prince Theater or places other entertainment venues that we have been promoting for the last seven, eight, nine years in the City, and rather successfully, about the fact that they came into the City and not only are they faced with high parking rates, they actually get an extra ticket when they make a right-hand turn because they don't know their way around. And I won't bore you with some of my examples. I may get into that a little later of how long it takes for someone to get from 18th and Chestnut to 15th and Walnut if they don't know their way around the City of Philadelphia. I also think that at the last hearing there was someone from one of the air quality coalitions came in to testify about we're encouraging more vehicles on the streets of 14 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Philadelphia by eliminating the right-hand turn restrictions it's going to put more cars there. I think it's actually the opposite that is occurring. We are a society of people who just don't want to get on bicycles at least to commute to and from work. I wish we were. I wish more people would use public transportation, but the American public just typically in big cities anyway just chooses not to use it. And I don't know if, as some people may suggest that we are enforcing that by allowing more vehicles on the street. But they're there any way. That's the bottom line. And I think we always need to look at better ways of moving traffic around. Before you became Commissioner, I convened a meeting of a number of interested parties SEPTA being one, THE Delaware River Port Authority, Penns Landing Corporation, the hotel industry, the City of Philadelphia. Denise Gorin was the Deputy Commission for Transportation at the time. At least on the east side of the Broad Street in the area of the Historical District from Broad Street east, how do we begin move people around? Who do we get people to be able to go from Point A to Point B. And I fully understand and agree that we need to do 15 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 a better job of creating a more friendly, if you will, public transportation systems, a system that people would be attracted to use. So I think we need to do that at the same time we are addressing the problem of the abuse, if you will, of the traffic patterns along Chestnut Street. It's been a failure since the middle '70s when with all good intention, I'm sure, that administration and the people in the Streets Department wanted to create a Chestnut Street transit way, I believe it was called, a place with kind of like a mall environment within urban America. It didn't work. It is not the only reason that we lost businesses in Center City Philadelphia, but it's one of the contributing reasons. It didn't work. What we did now isn't working. It's not your fault, it's not my fault. Someone came up with an idea. The City needed money to get the improvements done. The Feds said, we'll put money into the pot but under these conditions. Those conditions aren't working.
I think it's causing us major problems out there. So I just wanted that for the record to let you understand that I am going to, obviously, be 16 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 pushing for passage of the bill. No disrespect to you. I think over the next six months or year we've got to look at a lot of other things as well. Thank you again for your testimony.
If I may, Councilman. I don't disagree with what you're saying. I am probably one of the few people in my department that feel like that design just does not work, that it's confusing for visitors. It was confusing for me at the time I was new here and I didn't understand why I couldn't turn right all along Chestnut Street and why I had to go so far out of my way. But more importantly, I've noticed that nobody is paying attention to the signs. The enforcement efforts have not worked. The travel lanes are always blocked. Emergency vehicles can't get through. There's no place for people to load or unload their goods along the street. It's a dysfunctional design. And that was my communication with the FTA. And the specific request was that we be allowed to make additional modifications to that design, including considering allowing right-hand turns without receiving any penalty from the FTA or FHWA. Their response at the time indicated that we hadn't 17 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 given it enough time for people to get used to it and for the effects of enforcement to take place, but that they would consider working with us after six months. Now that six-month period expired about six months ago. We have not gone back to them and said, "Okay, it's still not working. Let's work together to lift the restrictions and to allow right turns." My suggestion here is that as opposed to this committee making a recommendation and moving forward with this legislation at this point, to allow us to go to the FTA and say to them, Okay, we need to allow right turns, get involved with our engineers, do the studies that would have to be done in any case and perhaps get them to lift the restriction without penalty to the City and without jeopardizing putting the City in a position where we may have funding that we've received be jeopardized both from the FTA and possibly from FHWA.
I think you will hear testimony today that the City will be -- there's an arrangement we have, and you'll hear testimony to that later on, that the City will be held harmless. There is actually an entity that 18 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 would be willing to put up that portion of the FTA fund so that the City won't have spend a nickel. So that end I think we're going to be okay on. Like you, I had many meetings with PennDOT and the FTA probably two or three years ago when we first began to open up Chestnut Street to vehicular traffic. And they asked me the same thing, could we wait a year. A year and a half maybe has gone by since those conversations. I even engaged the support of United States Senator Santorum's office because he sits on the Transportation Committee in Washington. And they have basically, no pun intended, hit a brick wall. They couldn't figure out which way to turn either. We're at a stalemate and I think it's time for us to step up to the plate. And we have an opportunity now because of the good folks at Jefferson Hospital to deal with that one issue which was everyone's mind, where we're money to get the money to reimburse FTA. Everyone had a different, but I think the figure we have now is more accurate, close to the million dollar figure, if I'm not mistake, as opposed to the 9 million that was being floated a while ago. 19 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547
There are two agencies involved. The FTA is, I think, $982,000 roughly. But the additional funding or the total cost of the project from federal funding was approximately 6 million. We don't have any confirmation that if we 7 were required to refund one we would be required to 8 refund both. But that's something else that we do 9 need to confirm before we move.
We'll take your testimony. I'm going to ask my colleagues to vote this out of committee today. But we'll have some time to look over those numbers. And you're right before the enforcement. We've been dealing with that. I've had more meetings than I care to remember. I know Patrick Mulligan is sitting in the back, we're talking about dedicating some loading zones, dedicated strictly for loading zones. They haven't worked that well yet. Paul Levy is here and Patrick Mulligan and a few us are trying to figure out a better solution to that problem going forward. Thank you again for your testimony and your interest in this. Mr. Tony Goldman from the Goldman Group 20 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 and then we'll have Mr. Paul Primavera his team.
The success and the details and what I think is quite wonderful to see the direction that we're going in, certainly east to Broad and all along Chestnut Street. To look back on where we've come from much, I think the opening of the street is Step in the right direction. Now Step is to let the street handle itself organically and as streets really must be handled in the urban setting which is the integration between vehicles and pedestrians. In order for the street to operate and respond to the growth of Chestnut Street, we must be able to give vehicles a clear, open right-hand turn because any of us who have driven it, you've got to wind up going to Camden before you can really take a turn around and know where you're go can. And it is very disruptive. It sends a very chaotic message to anybody who is odd driving on that street. Once you're on that street you're basically locked because your only means of getting off the street is turning left and then you're into Market Street and there's another whole world on Market Street. So if you're trying to go south, you're stuck; you're 21 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 really dead stuck. And in order to be able to prevent future congestion, because there will be more traffic on that street as Chestnut Street and the tributary streets, 12th Street, 13th Street, as they develop over of the next several years, there's going to be a greater activity for the vehicle to have to make turnarounds and drop people off, pick people up, taxi's as well as privately own vehicles. And we have to loosen it up and let it happen. I agree with the Councilman that we've waited long enough. And with all due respect to the Street Administration and certainly the Commissioner of Streets, everybody is trying to do what they have to do to protect the funding sources, to protect emergency vehicles floating up and down the street. We all want that, and we also want the safety of the pedestrian. But I certainly think that turning right on Chestnut is the most natural and right conclusion to what's already started, which is opening free vehicle traffic on Chestnut Street. It needs to be a natural street. And it's unnatural now with the prevention of that turn. And quite frankly, people are making the turn anyway because the need is there. So if it's legal, the pedestrian 22 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 will be more aware of what's legal. And if it's going to continue the way it's continuing, the pedestrian is going to be more at risk with the condition of the street and with the condition of the turning that the pedestrian is aware that there's no turning but nevertheless the vehicles are going to make that turn anyway.
I agree. I made some notes because it's sort of a false sense of security, especially people who aren't familiar with it as they're walking on the sidewalk and they see a sign that says vehicles can't right, they just think it's okay to cross when the light green.
And there's a frustration on behalf of the vehicle operator that they're going to do it anyway. They may pass one street, but they say, How do I get out of here?
I observed a number of people who do make the right-hand turn. They're looking over their shoulder, looking in the rear view mirror trying to see if there's any police around and they're not even paying attention to whether any pedestrians crossing. And I'm not exaggerating. I've seen this. They want to beat 23 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 the ticket and they want to make that turn so quickly they're not really paying attention to if anyone is crossing the street because they're only looking behind them to see if there's a police officer who may give them a ticket if they get caught.
And the cause and effect is it's forcing more traffic on to Market Street because it's the only way you can turn right. So it creates even a greater congestion on that street, and that's the main street that takes you down right through the center of town.
For those individuals who obey the law and don't make the right-hand turn until they get to Eighth, some of them go far as Seventh. Now that we have Chestnut Street closed off because of Fifth and Sixth because of security reasons at Independence Hall, we know in our office because it's part of my district as well, that traffic congestion down at that intersection is unbelievable and we're getting complaints from a lot of the business community, the law offices and the insurance companies that are in that neighborhood. Their customers literally just can't get in on some 24 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 days. It's that bad.
And the customer that does arrive to that area by car is very deincentivised to want to stay there because of the disruption. They'll just say, "I'm out of here." And that's not our incentive.
The other point I want to make while you're here is that with your development and some of the other residential development that is going on on Chestnut or just off the Chestnut Street to the south, it's very inconvenient for those potential residents to be able to get off of Chestnut Street to get into their residential units. I think you're right, it's a natural street. And sometimes I think we get involved in things and we should have just left well enough alone. It's a street, it's one of the major arteries that takes you west to east in the core of Center City south of Market. Why did we touch it in the first place, I don't know.
We're almost there. Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for this witness from the 25 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Committee? Thank you.
And I'd also like to ask the Committee if there are any questions for the Commissioner? I failed to ask. Thank you. Mr. Levy.
Good afternoon. My name is Paul Levy, I'm Executive Director of the Center City District. I just want to thank Carl and the people from Jefferson for deferring so we could offer our testimony quickly. First of all, I'm delighted to hear our Streets Commissioner can come to the conclusion that I think, quite simply, the Emperor has no clothes. The street has not succeeded and it's really to have a fresh pair of eyes come from the outside and look at the situation. What I want to do is very quickly offer what I think are six compelling reasons why the action that Council is contemplated makes a great deal of sense at this point. First, I think when you post rules that exist no place else in the City, 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 it really causes confusion. We're in a business of trying to attract tourists and visitors to our City. We've got visiting parents from universities. And when you a post a sign for the entire length of Chestnut Street that says "no right turns," it really creates huge confusion for people who are visitors. " You have to realize this is no longer the place that loves you back if the answer is yes you have to go eight blocks or ten blocks to the east, make a right turn and come 10 blocks to the west. I think secondly, we're well aware that we have limited police resources in this City, and we want to have the police addressing those enforcement issues that really matter. The police have not had adequate resources at all times to address this no right turn, so we have a lot of noncompliance with the law. And, frankly, I think 27 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 we all recognize that the real problem on that street is illegal parking by delivery trucks. It would much better to have the police focus on that illegal parking which is creating real congestion than chasing confused people and giving them tickets for turning right. What's interesting is the police, when they have done enforcement, a very large percentage of the people who are getting tickets are not Philadelphians who have learned with this, but people from outside the City and tourists. And so exactly what has happening is those least familiar with the City are coming in, doing what Mr. Goldman said is natural, trying to make a right turn and they're getting a ticket. I think more substantively, Sansom Street is where the parking is supposed to be. For years we've had a zoning code that has 19 discouraged parking garages on both Walnut and 20 Chestnut Street and encourages them to be service streets like Chestnut Street. On Sansom Street between 20th and 7th Street are 11 parking facilities, over 2,000 spaces. That's about 12 percent of the parking supply south of Market Street that's off street. We're supposed to be telling 28 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 people to park on garages on smaller streets, but you cannot get to the parking garages on Sansom Street so we are creating additional congestion. I'll let Thomas Jefferson University and Hospital speak for themselves about the life safety issues of not allowing a right turn to get to the emergency of a major metropolitan hospital. I would say, and I see someone from the Regional Performing Arts Center, we have as a City and a State foundations in the private sector invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the Avenue of the Arts. And to say that you can come down Chestnut Street and not make a right turn onto the Avenue of the Arts is so contradictory to everything else we've done. I see no one here from the Prince Theater, but I'll just relate one communication from the Prince Theater that we got. Because, remember, it's not only no right turns on the street, it's no 21 cars in the southern lane at all; we've all forgotten that. The law says no cars can drive in that lane. So imagine trying to drop someone off at the Prince Theater. Here's what the management of the Prince Theater writes.
29 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 "We literally have thousands of audience members who come in wheelchairs. The hardship for them is not being allowed to stop in front of theater and having to cross through traffic is considerable particularly inclement weather. Elderly patrons whose walking is unsteady are also gravely inconvenienced by this rule. Vehicles dropping off handicapped or elderly passengers must double park on the north side of the street obstructing traffic, then since they cannot turn right, they must go around City Hall or several blocks to reach parking lots on the west side of Broad Street. We have thousands of school children attending performances in busses who can not be dropped off in a safe manner. " So we have a set of ordinances that make no sense conclude. I would conclude simply with my final point, which I think is echoing what you've said, Councilman DiCicco, and what Mr. Goldman said, is anytime you try to preserve the failed remanence of a failed transit-way, you're just going to perpetuate the same errors of the past. 30 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 People say we are doing this because we want buss to move quickly and at high speeds. And I simply want to ask people, do we really want SEPTA buses barreling at 30to 40 miles an hour through the streets of Center City? Transit lanes on highways like the Schuylkill Expressway make a lot of sense. High speed 30 to 40 mile an hour buses when they're going to stop on every corner anyway really makes no 10 sense. If we want a high speed lane for busses, we could think about Market Street, but I'm not sure that's appropriate in the City at all. For years Chestnut Street was closed at all night altogether. And guess what? There wasn't a single restaurant or a single apartment building. When we at least opened it to cars, we started to get restaurants, we started to get apartment buildings. We have this strange sort of case of straight social engineering, you know, like 400 feet to the south we have what Mr. Goldman called a natural and organic street. It's called Walnut Street. You've got cars, you have people, you have buses, you have bicycles. And guess what? They all coexist on the same street. They make right turns, they have left turns. It as the most successful 31 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 street we have in Center City. All we have to do is let Chestnut Street be an eastbound Walnut Street and we'll have enormous success. But since we're actually looking at the street, I'll throw in one other idea which is not in my testimony, which is one of the things that makes Walnut Street work is we have no parking at rush hour. We have a rush hour clearance on that street so that during traffic jams we can move cars through. One of the ways we wasted money on Chestnut Street is on the north side of the street at every single corner we bumped out the sidewalk. Now, bumping out sidewalks makes sense on really wide streets like Market or South Broad. You don't need that for pedestrian crossing on Chestnut Street. But what we have done is make it impossible to have a rush hour clearance lane on the north side of the street, make it difficult to make left turns. And those bump-outs which are a certain amount of concrete we've spent money on -- may be we can give that $900,000 back for the concrete. You could make easier left turns. You could choose to have no 24 parking at rush hour to allow cars to move quickly through that area. 32 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 So I, again, thank the Councilman for holding these hearings for what I think is the third time. My testimony from 2000 sounds very similar to this. My testimony from 1998 sounds very similar. I think we've had enough time to see if the street works. It doesn't work and I would urge us all and the Streets Commissioner to move on with the appropriate change. Thank you.
The other day we were going down Chestnut from 22nd on down and it's a comment my wife made. She said Chestnut Street really looks shabby in that strip. It really is in need of some sort of investment because it really looks deteriorated and shabby. It doesn't look like what the main street of a City should look like. And it's a comment that she made and I just started looking around, and it does. And I just wonder how can we jump start the type of development there that needs to be done.
I think clearly Chestnut Street is an embarrassment for us in many places. 33 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 On the east side of town we still have a percent vacancy rate when retailers are tripping over each other to be on West Walnut Street. The demand for retail is here in Center City. The first problem, as we noted before, it was completely closed to cars for years. The reality is where restaurants, the 8 reality is where people live you need cars. The 9 street has been open to cars and low and behold 10 we're starting to get restaurants, we're getting 11 amount buildings. It's happening more slowly than 12 it should. I think the next step is if we can 13 simply allow the market to work on that street. 14 Now, we have a project jointly with the Commerce 15 Department that Councilman DiCicco has been 16 supporting to help do improvements on just the 12 17 and 1300 blocks of Chestnut Street so we can 18 leverage change between the Avenue of the Arts and 19 the Convention Center. But it is clearly the fact 20 that we've put unnatural barriers on the place of 21 the market place for years. Because if you think 22 about it, you've got the office buildings one block 23 to the north, you've got residential to the south. 24 This is not like it's a street at the edge things; 25 it's right in the middle of things. And I think if 34 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 we just stop with the unnatural barriers and of social engineering that has inhibited that street, the market will come back very clearly.
Just to follow-up on Councilman Ortiz's comments. And I'm familiar with a lot more of the interest that is now taking place on the east side of Broad on Chestnut Street, and I'm sure there are people who may or may not testify that permitting right-hand turns is going to have some sort of an adverse affect on pedestrians. Since we have reintroduced traffic to Chestnut Street, and I know you're statistics guy and I admire you for that. I'm into the numbers game myself. But have we seen an increase in pedestrian traffic as a result of that as well?
I think the first thing we've seen that's real exciting is one of the biggest areas of growth of apartments in Center City is East Chestnut Street. The old Blum's Department Store, Adelphia House, the work that Tony Goldman is doing, we have a whole lot more people living there. And clearly, that has added foot traffic. And I think anybody who's been on East Chestnut Street, for example on Sunday night, it is no longer a 35 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 wasteland; there are actually people walking there. That's a wonderful step. We had no restaurants on the street. We now have one up near Broad Street and of course then down near 6th or 7th Street. Tony's opened a restaurant on 13th Street. There is a lot of interest. We know of major retailers who are interested in East Chestnut Street who I think will really animate that. So, yes, there is clearly more pedestrian traffic on the street, but most importantly there's traffic in the evening. That used to be a street that shut at 5:00 and every retailer closed at 5:00. There is now nighttime activity which is really key to safety and vibrancy.
So if someone to suggest that for some reason permitting right-hand turns would be a disincentive for pedestrians to use Chestnut Street, that certainly would not be the case. If anything, I think the two would go together.
We have huge vibes of pedestrians on Walnut Street where right and left turns are perfectly allowed and there's no problem whatsoever.
I think if you have 36 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 businesses and restaurants, pedestrians will come.
Absolutely. But you couldn't HAVE business and restaurants when cars couldn't get there. We've now taken the important first step which we're really pleased with.
I notice that the Commissioner of Streets just step out of the room, but one of the things we had explored, and I think you were part of those conversations, Paul, was if we couldn't get a total lifting of the ban that at least we would lift the ban on non-peak hours. I'm not suggesting that because I don't want to confuse the bill.
Again, the whole argument for street as it is is we were supposed to have buses and bicycles. We haven't even touched that issue. But the high volume buses is at morning rush hour. There is no high volume of bus traffic in the evening, so clearly that was a compromised we had offered before. There clearly are few bicyclists riding at nighttime on the streets. So at nighttime is an easy compromise. But if you ask any bicyclists, do you want to bicycle on a street with a 30,000 pound SEPTA bus at your back? The answer 37 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 is no. People choose to ride on those streets on their bicycles where there's less traffic, not more. So the very concept of buses and bicycles sharing the same lane is really an absurd concept.
I agree. I mean, at one of the first meetings we had in Council, the first hearings we had, there were some people from the bike coalition who said that was not an issue, which I really couldn't understand. I wouldn't want to that bus behind me either. Since you're into accounts and statistics, do you happen to know how many bikes are on Chestnut Street at any given time?
I don't have that in my head, but we've actually been working with the Bicycle Coalition. I can answer some of that for you. At least 50 percent of them are the delivery people, so that's a business.
And they're going to be there anyway. I'm talking about non-business related bicyclists.
No, I don't have that number in my head. I apologize. I'll have it in my head the next time I see you. 38 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547
That's okay. I just was curious. I'm sure that argument will be made. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Levy? Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Howard Trachtman. I'm a vice president at Parkway Corporation. I'm here on behalf Robert Zuritski who couldn't attend at the last minute. We believe that right turn restriction on Chestnut Street is bad for Philadelphia for several reasons. First, we believe that can all agree that congested vehicular traffic flow is a key characteristic of a vital city. The volume of pedestrian and automobile traffic determines whether businesses in our City succeed or fail. There is no 18 clearer example of this than when automobile traffic was removed from Chestnut Street 25 years ago. That failed policy resulted in Philadelphia's most valued retail street becoming a street of vacant store fronts and dollars stores. Now that we have allowed traffic back on Chestnut Street, we're beginning to see signs of its revitalization. But the revitalization is hindered 39 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 by the right turn restriction which discourages traffic from using the street as the older failed policy did. We should remove the right turn restriction on Chestnut and allow Chestnut to flourish as Walnut and other streets have. Second, the restriction against the right turn creates confusion for drivers trying to get to parking garages and lots. For years city policy has prohibited parking garage and lot entrances on Chestnut, steering them instead to the numbered street and Sansom Street. The right turn restriction prevents drivers from being able to get to those parking locations without taking a four- to six-block circuitous detour and creating confusion and congestion. Removing a restriction is a necessary complement to the garage entrance policy. Third, the current experiment with bus and bike lanes on Chestnut Street is clearly felt. The notion that restricting the right lane to buses and bikes will permit high speed buses and freer bicycle movement hasn't worked. Pollution hasn't been appreciably reduced. Buses still idle at nearly every corner and bicyclist must constantly battle with buses to proceed down the street. The 40 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 result has been greater congestion and a dangerous biking atmosphere. That experiment should be ended so that the right turn restriction may be safely lifted. In summary, the lifting of the right turn restriction will enhance traffic flow, diminish congestion and driver confusion, support other City policies and contribute greatly to the continuing revitalization of Chestnut Street. For these reasons, we urge that you allow the traffic flow to make right turns on Chestnut Street.
Thank you for your testimony. Will Parkway be managing the parking garage at Tenth and Chestnut.
Any questions for this witness? Seeing none, our next witness.
Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding this .
My name is George Schaeffer. I'm the facility manager for the Kimmel 41 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Center for the Performing Arts. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Council for its foresight in 1995 and 1996 for providing financial support to an idea, a dream that is now reality. If the first four months of our project are any indication, you've made a sound investment in the future of the City of Philadelphia. 70 percent performances have been sellouts. And with the diversification of performances, we are trying very, very hard to attract new people who are not familiar with coming to downtown Philadelphia to the world's finest performing arts center. With the Academy of Music and the Miriam Theater and the Wilma Theater and Verizon Hall and Perlman Theater, we have 8,000 audience members are coming downtown many, many evenings of the week and Saturdays and Sunday afternoons. So a revitalization of South Broad Street is already present and hopefully will be here for many, many years in the future. Many of our visitors are coming for the first time. And trying to lure them into Center City Philadelphia, you try to do very many things to make it a satisfactory experience. And for some reason, if you're on Chestnut Street and you have a 42 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 $100 dollar ticket or a $50 ticket in your pocket and it's minutes before show time and you can't 4 figure out how to get to the Kimmel Center, you're 5 sweating bullets. And when you make that illegal 6 turn and get hit with a ticket the first time you've 7 been in Center City in 10 years, we're not sure they 8 want to come back. And that's not the impression 9 that all of us have been trying to create with all 10 the great things that have been done on South Broad 11 Street. 12 So I support everything that the 13 Commissioner and Paul Levy said in restoring the 14 right turn on 15th Street and Broad Street and all 15 the other streets to allow people to get to the parking facilities that exist. South of Chestnut Street is a major benefit. About 80 percent of our attendees come via car. And while we all would like them to take public transportation or the Jersey high speed line or Broad Street Subway, 80 percent of those attendees come via vehicle and that's 3,000 cars in a one-block area and all of our parking spots are right around the center. We've got to get them there somehow in a safe way and an expeditious way. So I am in support of restoring the right 43 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 turn. And thank you for your support.
Thank you. So you're suggesting that if a visitor to the Kimmel Center is issued a citation -- I think it's $90 -- and decided to have dinner before he or she goes to the Kimmel Center and gets the citation, they have Italian you would develop ojada (ph).
It makes it difficult to enjoy the day when you start out with a ticket.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Schaeffer.
Mrs. Lavin and then the Primavera team. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon. The Primavera group sounds beautiful. I'm Nancy Lavin. I'm the vice president of an organization called Philly Walks. You may have remembered me from other testimony at other times. As you also know, our group is the only organization in the County of Philadelphia dedicated to pedestrian concerns. On 44 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 the face of things and philosophically, our group has to object to anything that might lessen pedestrian safety, and I say advisedly might. With all the testimony I've already heard, things are very much up in the air in a number of ways. Appreciating that, I am aware from the other testimony, and I have to agree with most of it, that everyone seems concerned about the impact on pedestrians. Believe me, we appreciate that. And it's not the sort of thing we would often here in previous years. So we appreciate, and I'll pass this on that your concerns are growing about pedestrian impact. And I also would say that the developers in the area have been very much aware of that also. We appreciate that. And we have been working with developers in many ways, including the Parkway parking garages. Now, if Councilmembers do decide to remove the signs for no right turns, we absolutely want you please to replace them with the no right turn on red signs. There are many in Center City and these intersection and question certainly are just as important, if not more so, for those signs than the other intersection you've used. 45 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 I'm very concerned about the right turn on red on Broad Street. I understand -- I thought traffic turning that way myself today and everyday. They just go. It's a broad street, aptly named, and some of them really don't expect and certainly don't see and don't want to see the arrow with the slash on it and they're turning right. What I'm asking is that you give some lead time, work with the engineers, traffic engineers, give a little more lead time to pedestrians to start getting across the street --
On the timing of the signals. MS. LAVIN. Yes. Just a matter of three seconds could make a big difference.
There's an even greater problem on the timing of the signals, I think, on Market Street. It's even wider than Broad. I'm fairly quick when I walk, but I have at sometimes difficult time getting from one side to the other by the time the light is about to change. That's a good point, and I appreciate that. I'm 46 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your testimony.
That's all right. I was in one of our favorite places very recently called Europe and France is one of them of course. I've seen a number of their very broad streets have built up little islands. I think maybe we could use a few more of them. Not a lot, but in particular areas where people have a really hard time getting across the street.
What I will promise that I will bring these issues to the attention of Streets Department. I can't promise that they will be enacted. I just want to comment on of one of your statements. I think we all have always been sensitive to pedestrians. I was never putting vehicles ahead of pedestrians. I think we may have difference of opinion the way in which we can accomplish both. I just never thought that buses, those huge buses should be on Chestnut Street in the first place. I think that they act as a disincentive they're a very hostile piece of equipment coming down. It's not pleasant to be a pedestrian with those huge buses spewing out all 47 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 that diesel fumes and everything else. I've talked to SEPTA about it in the past that they would reduce the size. Not to the size of a Jitney in Atlantic City, but something maybe lesser of the size that we see day. And that's an issue we have to deal with SEPTA. For me, providing a better vehicular corridor, in my opinion, will enhance pedestrian traffic because by doing the vehicular traffic and allowing it to use both lanes, it offers business opportunities for those vacant stores that are there and they bring people in. So I think the two will go hand in hand. And in Europe that's what you see, you see both pedestrians and vehicles, although precariously at times, coexisting. But understand that also in Europe as crazy as the traffic is, when a pedestrian steps into the street, traffic stops. Here it's the opposite. But again, that's social behavior in this country, not unique to Philadelphia. Thank you. Anything else? I'm sorry.
And I do like the 48 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 suggestion and I think it probably would be in the plan on the right turn on red, but I will make sure that that's discussed as well.
Could be. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for this witness? The Primavera team.
For the record, Carl Primavera, P-R-I-M-A-V-E-R-A. To my right is Ron Bowlan from Jefferson University Hospital. To my left is Andy McLaughlin from InterPark. Thank you again for allowing us the opportunity to speak. Obviously, we agree with everything that has been said by the people who feel the right-hand turn restriction has been counterproductive. But we are actually here on a very specific issue even though we agree with them on the general issue, and as you'll here first from Ron Bowlan, Jefferson which has been a real success story is about to embark on a significant development campaign, much of you which is going to hinged on a garage project which it's going to undertake with InterPark which 49 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 is the largest developer of parking garages in the country. The right-hand turn restriction is absolutely catastrophic to the growth of the campus and success of the hospital and also any type of efficient operation of the garage. So that's our particular plea here today. I'll start by turning the microphone over to Ron Bowlan and ask him to officially introduce himself and his position with Jefferson Hospital.
Thank you and good afternoon. My name is Ron Bowlan B-O-W-L-A-N. I'm Associate Vice President for Facilities for Thomas Jefferson University. And on behalf of the university and Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, I want to thank you for the opportunity to address the City Council Committee on Streets and Services regarding our support of Bill No. 000547 that will authorize right turns from portions of Chestnut Street. While we believe that the opening of Chestnut Street to vehicular traffic has been beneficial to both the City and to merchants, we remain adamantly opposed to this right-hand turn restriction. Since the founding of Jefferson 50 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Medical College in 1824, Thomas University Hospital and Thomas Jefferson University have been committed to the Center City Philadelphia and the residents of the Delaware Valley. Our mission continues to be to education physicians, nurses, scientists, and allied health professionals, to target our research efforts toward innovative treatments while expanding our knowledge of people and their environment and to provide compassionate, efficient, affordable quality health care. Today, Thomas Jefferson University Hospital and Thomas Jefferson University employ 10,980 person, making it the largest non-governmental employer in Center City with an annual payroll exceeding $463 million. And utilization of over 4 1/2 million gross square feet of owned and occupied space. Thomas Jefferson University Hospital admits 30,000 patients, treats 54,000 patients in its emergency room, performs 28,000 surgeries and processes 405,000 outpatient diagnostic tests per year. Jefferson University physicians also accommodate 350,000 patient visits per year in their offices. All of this patient activity creates a 51 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 tremendous amount of traffic on our campus. And while we encourage the use of public transportation by our students and employees by subsidization of public transit cost and incentivise employees to park at off-campus locations, we nonetheless must accommodate our patients and their families. We are particularly concerned about the right turn restriction onto 10th Street since the entrance to Jefferson's Emergency Department is located at the corner of 10th and Samson. Persons traveling on Chestnut Street literally have to drive past the hospital and follow a circuitous route to 6th Street then to Spruce Street, then to 9th Street and finally to Samson in order to access our Emergency Department. In cases of acute medical situations, the time required to travel this distance could potentially impact the patient's health. To those who know their way around the City taking this longer route to the hospital is frustrating. To those who are unfamiliar with the City, it is agonizing. Another practical and logistical consideration is the flow of traffic from Jefferson's valet parking operation at 11th and 52 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Sansom which will move 97,000 cars this year. Because our valet drivers cannot turn right onto 10th Street, they must travel up 11th Street to Market Street, then down 10th Street to get to our valet lot. At any given time, the normal traffic on 11th Street is extremely congested up to and even beyond Market. Considering the number of cars we are moving daily, we obviously dd to this congestion on 11th Street. Often the valet drop-off point virtually becomes a parking lot causing further grid lock both on and off the street. The police routinely ticket cars that make right turns on to 10th Street, sometimes issuing a second ticket because the driver was in the bicycle lane. In addition to the above, any future campus development under consideration will result in an increased demand for southbound traffic from Chestnut Street.
It is also likely that such development will reduce the available parking on compass making it more important that easy access is available to the proposed parking garage on the southeast corner of 10th and Chestnut, also the redevelopment of the Victory Building for Jefferson students, staff, and commercial establishments will 53 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 create an additional parking demand. Your passage of Bill 000547 permitting right-hand turns from Chestnut is essential for the safety and welfare of our patients and the efficiency of traffic flow that will assist us in attracting patients, employees, and students from the entire Delaware Valley region and maintaining our position as the largest employer in Center City. Thank you.
Mr. McLaughlin, please state your name and your title with InterPark.
My name is Andrew McLaughlin, and my title is Vice President of InterPark, Incorporated. Thank you for reviewing the restrictions on Chestnut Street and for proposing an ordinance to eliminate them. This is an important concern to us because we have formed a strategic relationship with Thomas Jefferson University and Hospital to develop a 700-space parking structure at the southeast corner of 10th and Chestnut Streets. We are developing this site to help Jefferson provide a long-term solution to parking needs of their growing campus. The access from Chestnut Street is critical to the economic success of the parking we intend to 54 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 provide. For those unfamiliar with InterPark, we are the country's owner er and operator of urban parking properties. In Center City, we own 6 assets valued at $82 million and employ 35 people 7 locally. Upon completion of the 10th and Chestnut 8 garage, we will have invested $100 million in 9 Philadelphia. This represents 10 percent of our 10 total portfolio. We are excited about our strategic 11 relationship with Jefferson and we are encouraged about the prospects for long-term growth in Center City. Last November we entered into a long-term operating agreement to provide parking services for Thomas Jefferson Hospital. Our proposed development will be a key factor in the service we provide as we help Jefferson address their parking needs. Access from Chestnut Street is critical, not only to the success of our development, but the service we provide to Jefferson and ultimately the service Jefferson provides to the community. To help us study this issue we have engaged the following experts: Traffic consultant 55 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 Adrienne East and development and engineering Consultant, Steven Shannon. They are present to answer the Committee's questions regarding traffic issues related to our proposed development. Based on our studies, the proposed change to Chestnut Street provides valuable benefits to the community. It enables drivers to turn right from Chestnut onto 10th Street so they may easily access the proposed garage and easily locate the hospital emergency room 11 without unnecessarily touring the neighborhood during an emergency. By simplifying access from Chestnut, the City can improve hospital access for service and in turn reduce potential congestion. Currently eastbound drivers on Chestnut Street unknowingly or otherwise make illegal right turns onto 10th Street or they pass by the site and continue eastbound resulting in recirculation to the campus parking area. Further, the attendants parking cars from the hospital's valet drop-off on 11th Street are forced to unnecessarily drive north toe Market Street in order to legally enter the 10th Street driveway of the surface lot to park. These maneuvers add to rather than reduce congestion. In reality, the current condition is 56 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 neither beneficial to the community or Jefferson. The no right turn condition confuses drivers in search of emergency medical attention and forces them eastbound causing them to double back. In a recently conducted survey of customers parking at the 10th and Chestnut Streets lot, their primarily complaint was the no-right-turn condition at Chestnut Street. To adequately address their concern would mean elimination of this condition. In addition to turning right on 10th Street from Chestnut, the proposed change could potentially permit traffic to enter and exit the proposed parking garage from Chestnut Street at mid block. The design of our garage easily accommodates entering and exiting traffic from Chestnut Street with substantial cueing to prevent stacking in the street. By allowing traffic to exit onto Chestnut Street, the customers would turn east and avoid circulating back to the campus. Included in our development is a proposed pedestrian bridge over 10th Street connecting our site to the hospital.
This language makes access from Chestnut Street even more critical. As eastbound drivers on Chestnut approach 57 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 the garage, they will look for a driveway on 10th. And if not permitted to turn right, they will look for a driveway on Chestnut. If there is no driveway on Chestnut, they will continue eastbound increasing the distance they will have to retrace to return to the designated hospital parking area. This condition is classically dysfunctional because it forces drivers into unnecessary and circuitous route in order to reach their destination. We believe after careful review the Committee on Streets and Service will recommend the City Council the ordinance to remove the restriction because to do so will, Number 1, provide a public benefit by improving traffic flow through the Thomas Jefferson Hospital and University Campus. Two, enhance direct access to the emergency room at 10th Street. And 3, increase the likelihood that patients and visitors can easily the hospital supply intended for their use. We appreciate your consideration of this very important concern.
One thing I did want to address. When we first looked at this from our own 58 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 perspective for this Jefferson project. We met with the Streets Department and they did express concerns over potential penalties that the federal transportation agency may have. And I really applaud the Commissioner and his letter that says that he will seek to have a waiver insofar as our garage project because as I health, safety, and welfare issue and with the emergency room issue, I think he's if not confident, hopeful, that maybe there will be no penalty. But what we wanted to do is we can't wait the same time period because my concern is that even though we all know, as Paul Levy who said the king has no clothes, the federal government being the federal government may actually take years to come to the same conclusion. So even though we don't have a check for the almost $8 time period even they we all knee the can king has know clothes. The federal government being the federal government may actually take years to come to the same conclusion. So even though we don't have a check for the almost $900,000 to refund to the federal government, what we would like to do, if necessary, is to have the chance that if that's the only way that we can change the right-hand turn at 59 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 10th Street, then we would like the City to basically say to us, "If you put up the money, we can do it." In which case, Jefferson, InterPark, and Paul Levy and perhaps even Parkway will endeavor to make that money available. Paul even said let's have a "free Chestnut Street" campaign. I think that with the City's relationships with the federal government and Santorum and with the commissioners, hopefully, insight that the federal government should not penalize us for trying to save people's lives that that number will fall away. But our research and our investigation has determined that from our viewpoint our penalty would be the $800,000 number. The other number which was 9 million would not be relevant. Clearly, that's a number that nobody could deal with from the private side. So what we're saying is that even we don't want to pay it because we feel that that's an unnecessary penalty, we are saying here today that if the only way to get the right-hand turn on 10th Street is to refund to the federal government and make sure that the City's not on the hook for that, then we would like the opportunity to raise the money and do that. So we wouldn't ask you to do it first and then we'll 60 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 find the money later. We would ask you to say, Fine. There's no waiver perhaps. There's no way to get out of it. And then say to us, "This is the way to do it and here is how to raise the money." And I'm convinced that the Tony Goldmans of the world and the other people, among all the people have a vested interest in the success of the business community will fund a way to make that number work. So that's our commitment.
For the purpose of this bill, though, you're not suggesting that we wait?
No. What I'm saying is that I don't want anyone to think we're going to write a check today, but before it changes --
We would make sure. We wouldn't ask you to do it and then have to pay money, you know, and then say, well we don't have. What we're saying is we think we can get it waived. But if that's the only way to do it, then have the ordinance passed. We'll have an agreement with the Law Department or with the Commissioner. 61 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547
That's fine. Thank you. I don't know if you're aware, in the last two days we received two letters of support. One is from PennDOT, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Department of Transportation, basically suggesting that they have no objection if the City were to remove the bus lane only from Chestnut Street. And then there's another letter addressed to United States Senator Santorum from the Division Administrator of the US Department of Transportation saying that they would not object to that. There is one other level I understand which is that 8 to 9 million piece which is the bigger piece, but I'm confident after receiving these letters after three years of working on it that at the end of the day we will have the relief that we seek from the financial obligation. My staff is telling me -- I've been getting mixed signals. But they're saying that it is our opinion that the only monies that would be required to be repaid is the somewhere in the vicinity of $900,000. The 9 million may not be an issue at all.
Not to be bound by it, 62 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 but our legal research in my office believes that to be the case, that the million was never an 4 obligation that ran with this limitation. So we're 5 really talking about the 800-and-some thousand 6 dollars. I'm glad your staff and my staff are in 7 agreement with that. And I'm glad that Councilman 8 Ortiz seems to be saying that things should work out 9 and Councilman Mariano always has a smile. This is a big union construction project, a very significant 700-car garage project. Councilman Rizzo, I know you support growth in Center City and Jefferson in particular. So we're cautiously optimistic with your help and with the Councilman's leadership, we'll find our way through this.
I think we will. Again, my legislative assistant was whispering something in my ear and we're more than confident that the maximum amount that would be needed to be reimbursed is that 800 to $900,000. I want to thank you Mr. Primavera for your working along with us the and the Streets Department folks and Mr. Bowlan for Jefferson Hospital on your reinvestment InterPark. We really appreciate your concern and your willingness to 63 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - 000547 continue to reinvest in our great City.
Well, we appreciate your leadership. You were ahead of this. This whole project comes up recently with us and we're glad that Council is already kind of focused on the problem because our timetable is very, very fast. So it's very, very heartening for us to be with people from the major Center City businesses who are already are behind it.
The timing, as you know, is a lot and means a lot. Two years ago it was new. You got your investment at Jefferson Hospital actually helped us make the case so I want to thank you again. Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify for or against this bill? Seeing none, we will stand in recess for a couple of minutes. We're waiting for the Council President to -- oh, she's in the hallway. Good. (Pause.)
Thank you. This concludes the public hearing on the Committee of Streets and Services. - - - 64 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Wednesday, May 1, 2002 - - - Public Meeting conducted by the Committee on Public Property and Public Works, held in Room 696, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILLS 020244, 020243, 020252, 000547 - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO, Chair COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ COUNCILMAN RICHARD MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - 65 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
We will now move into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
I move that Bill No. 9 000547 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit First Reading at the next Session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been probably moved and seconded that Bill No. 000547 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommends and that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Bill is approved. Councilman Ortiz. 66 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 020043 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit First Reading in the next Session of City Council. (Duly seconded.)
It has been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 020043 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor? (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman I move that Bill 020244 be reported out of Committee with favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit First Reading in the next Session of City Council. (Duly seconded.) 67 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 020244 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 020252 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit First reading at the next Session of City Council.
It's been properly moved and seconded that Bill No. 020252 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and that the Rules of Council be suspended. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. (Aye.) 68 5/1/02 - STREETS AND SERVICES - PUBLIC MEETING
The bill is approved. This concludes the public meeting on the Committee of Streets and Services. I want to thank my committee members and especially Council President for affording us the quorum we needed today. (Council adjourned at 3:55 p.m.) 69 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of May 1, 2002, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC SAFETY ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public