Spell your name for the record.
Michael, last name is S-C-I-P as in Paul, I-O-N as in N-C-E. Address is 1119 Cross Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19147.
Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed.
Michael, in addition to being the listing agent for the three townhomes, you're also a resident of Pascham Square, is that correct?
Correct.
Okay. And you're very familiar with the site in the local community, correct?
Yep, just a couple blocks from me.
Okay. Now, I have up on the screen an email exchange between you and Clay Schaefer, and it's back from January 2020.
Can you just briefly describe for the board what your conversations were with Mr. Schaefer and with other prospective buyers of the townhomes?
I met with Clay and his buyers in my office prior to there being anything framed due to the delay in construction because of COVID.
We went over the finishes.
We went over the floor plans.
uh they already know it's a pretty busy corner but um they were concerned about the multi-unit use
and the windows in the back of the multi-unit building being close to the townhomes um but
they were ready to pull the trigger um and move forward if the sonder use was approved when i
told them about the application for the variance um got one other similar feedback um those buyers
were not as serious as these buyers um i mean i've had several conversations with clay
uh to keep him updated on you know uh this use variance and and michael would it be fair to say
that uh the feedback is that if it were the hotel use it would be a less intense less impactful use
and that is why it's more desirable from the prospective buyer standpoint yes absolutely
thank you i have no further questions for mr sapione um i would like next like to call uh
Andrew Levin, on behalf of Sonder.
Andrew Levin, Director of Real Estate, Sonder.
Levin, L-E-V-I-N.
And my address is 1519 Pine Street, Philadelphia PA, 19102.
Levin, do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth?
Please proceed.
Thank you, Mr. Levin, you heard my testimony earlier.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
Can you please just explain for the board who Sonder is as a company and what your presence is in Philadelphia?
Sonder is a tech-based hospitality company headquartered in San Francisco.
The company is about six or seven years old.
We launched in Philadelphia about two and a half years ago.
Myself and our general manager, our team is now about 15 people, five management positions with about 10 hourly hospitality agents.
Our current offices are located around about 13th and Calahillat, one of our properties there.
Our current offices are located at around about 13th and Cala Hill.
We currently have 300 units live in Philadelphia, and with another about 300 coming live in the next six months throughout the city.
And, Mr. Lubin, can you speak to the 24-7 service provided and how that's facilitated?
Sure. So while we don't have staff on site at every property that we operate, we do operate obviously a central office. And our hospitality agents, our third party housekeeping group, security is dispatched on site, especially on weekends at our properties and stay there.
But as needed, our guests are able to contact the 24-7 concierge line,
that's our call center, that is able to troubleshoot issues via phone.
If an issue requires in-person service,
we're able to dispatch one of our local hospitality agents to that site.
But beyond that, we are having hospitality agents
in and out of our properties throughout the day,
obviously checking on cleanliness, maintenance,
and just making sure that the overall property looks up to par
as we do have guests checking in every day.
And because we are a new company,
it's very important that our guests get a great first impression of our product.
So we're very on top of that type of stuff.
Andrew, can you just also explain for the board,
how does an individual go about reserving a sonder
and what's the process like from a security standpoint?
Yeah, a guest books a Sondra either through the Sondra website directly or one of our travel partners, Expedia, Hotels.com, those types of groups.
And when a guest books, they are providing a photocopy of their driver's license as well as a photo of themselves so we can verify the identity of that person because there is no in-person check-in.
um when that person books we are confirming that uh uh if a person's booking a same day booking
and it seems that the code has a property uh we are reaching out to the guests to kind of confirm
and check on the the nature of the booking because typically that is where you get the
the the party type booking same day uh local bookings um and we do up uh we do have uh you
know, a blacklist and a three strike policy. So if there are issues, we do address those
immediately. Obviously, noise, noise issues are dealt with swiftly and firmly, because
if there is a loud gas, it disrupts our other guests in the building and ultimately creates
a negative experience. And that's something that's super important for us more so than I think a
traditional apartment might be, because we do have guests coming and going so frequently.
um but uh but yeah we do have a a preliminary um uh check that goes on uh before a guest actually
arrives on the property and gets their code to the front door and then an actual code to the
unit as well okay and lastly can you just speak to uh saunders uh desire to be in neighborhoods
within cities as opposed to just you know being in the you know center city uh and this and the
sorts of bookings that uh you generally receive both from a you know length of visit and the type
of individuals who uh will reserve a sonder yep yeah so sonder differentiates itself from a
traditional you know large hotel like a marriott or a hyatt in the sense that we are looking for
the cool neighborhoods uh the unique neighborhoods that uh a visitor to philadelphia might not
you know be able to experience because that the the large hotels and and um hospitality groups
are in the the nine to five you know central business districts in major cities um so we
operate properties currently in old city we're in fishtown um queen village we want to be parts of
these these neighborhoods that have great restaurants great uh great shops and really
kind of allow a visitor to experience Philadelphia the way that we think it
should be experienced. So that's kind of one of our major, I think,
advantages is that we can do, you know, smaller projects like this 21-unit
building and not require a high rise of 300-key hotel, you know, on Market
street in order to operate and is there a general uh length of stay i mean is this
you know these units are as if it's a residential unit they're
uh, living room, living space, washer, dryer, kitchens. Um, so what's, you know,
uh living room living space washer dryer kitchens
how long do people generally stay at, at a Sonder? Uh, our, uh, the,
the pre COVID numbers, I mean, we're skewing longer stays now during COVID. Um,
but, but prior to COVID, our average length of stay was around three,
a little over three nights, which is a little bit longer than hotel average.
Um, and I think that is in large part because of the amenities, you know,
within the unit we offer. So we do see a lot of leisure and business travel. You know,
the consultant who's visiting a city, you know, four nights a week might be tired of staying in a,
you know, a 300 square foot, you know, Marriott with no kitchen. You know, our units are typically
around 450 square feet and up on the smaller end with full kitchens and washer and dryer.
So it does create a more comfortable, livable experience. You know, the young couple with a
couple of kids who want to have a little more privacy in space you know our units the traditional
one bedroom unit allows for that kind of privacy um so uh it definitely we we let we tend uh we
trend to longer stay than a hotel i've no further questions for mr uh thank you thank you uh mr
lovin this is frank to chico um explain to me what the difference is between an airbnb
and Saunders if there is a difference? Sure. Well, Airbnb is really a platform for
anyone to list their own personal property, their own personal residence or
property that they have to rent out for whomever. No one lives in Saunders permanently,
so it's all corporately run and corporately controlled. It's run like a hotel will be run.
And we definitely are more similar to a hotel than what you'd see on Airbnb where you might
be on vacation for a couple weeks and want to generate a little extra income and rent out your
own personal residence, that's not the case with Sonder. Do you have an average stay
for Sonder's units? Is there an average? It's around three nights, but depending on the property,
you can book as short as one night, but the average length of stay across the company right now is
around three nights, but obviously you can book much longer and do a single night as well,
like a traditional hotel. You testified that you have other locations throughout the city as close
as Queen Village to this site. How is the size of this and the number of units compared to other
locations you have in Philadelphia? This is probably a little bit on the smaller end of
our other projects. We have a seven-unit project in Old City at 257 North 3rd Street, which is
seven units, and then we have as large as 96 units at the Hyde building at 13th and
Kellogg Hill. And we're getting ready to open up our largest project, which is 186 units at
the Witherspoon building on Walnut Street as well. But we do have a number of projects that
are in the 20 to 50 unit range as well. And one other final question from the price point
compared to, I don't know if I can compare it to an Airbnb because you explained that,
yeah um price point uh definitely higher than you would see on a on you know an airbnb in the area
because of the quality um but it is lower price than a a marriott or a height because we don't
offer a lot of the the you know amenities that you're paying for indirectly when you book a
traditional hotel you know the uh the restaurant in the in the lobby um the uh the ballroom the
medium space the the business center all those all those get factored into uh the cost of a
booking at a traditional large hotel not having staff on site and doing a kind of a deconstructed
model that way allows us to offer a lower price point to guests but obviously we're still it's
it's not it's not you know super cheap it's I don't know what the price point would be on this
property but on weekends I mean you're probably looking at at least $200 a night for a one more
i apologize um your terms the lease is it it's a lease um a transaction here it's a booking like a
like a hotel booking um so because i mean uh for the for the purpose of sanders yes this facility
you enter into a master lease agreement yep for the whole building how long is that for uh it
varies by project we have this project this project three years actually with
with options yeah three three year initial with an option to two options
for additional three years so for a total of a nine-year term thank you thank
you any anyone else wish to testify before I
Anyone else wish to testify before I ask the board?
I do have one more individual just to testify very briefly, but I do want to also note, to the extent that it wasn't already mentioned, that this is a, it's contactless.
So after an individual books their sonder, they have their reservation on their phone and they use a code that is just specific for their stay to access both the building to enter into the residential lobby and to access their room.
And that's a code that's unique to them that's then deactivated after their stay is over.
So it truly does have a 21st century appeal to it and also reduces the number of on-staff
employees that are necessary for the maintenance of the project.
The last person I would just like to call is David Lanscroner on behalf of the owner.
David, let us know when you're there.
Hello?
David?
Okay, this is Frankie Chico.
Please identify yourself, name and address, spell your name for the stenographer.
David Lanskroner, L-A-N-D-S-K-R-O-N-E-R, 448 North 10th Street, Suite 303, Philadelphia, PA.
Thank you.
Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Thank you. Please proceed, Mr. Phillips.
David, you heard my testimony and description of the project earlier, did you not?
And would you agree that my testimony was true and accurate?
I did.
Would you agree to adopt my testimony as your own?
And can you just briefly, we were here, it was a long drawn out project two years ago to get approval in place for the 21 residential units.
And I know this is a bit of a pivot with Sonder, but can you let me let the board know what
appealed to you about Sonder and especially from an intensity and impact of use that you
thought was a little bit different than what we would have if we had 21 residential units?
Yeah, I think you kind of mentioned it best, Michael. Some of the main concerns when we're
going through the variance process with the community group was parking, congestion, moving,
and just the sheer amount of people that could potentially be at the site at one given time.
The Sondra use kind of hits the nail on all of those
and alleviates many of the concerns that some neighbors had with the original project.
You know, Sondra is a trailblazing type company.
They're expanding greatly in Philly and pretty much all over the country.
And they're one of the few companies that are travel and tourism focused
that are actually doing well even in covid times it just shows how they run their business and the
guest quality and stay is is just very very very well done so i think it's a project uh and a
tenant for the building that just creates synergies across all those levels thank you
I have no further for Mr. Lance Grohner. I do know that Mr. Bonnie will like to testify, but I will just state in closing that
the granting of this variance. And again, we're seeking the accessory use of visitor accommodations from the second to fourth floor. It will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood.
It will not impair the appropriate use or development of the adjacent property.
If anything, it will improve the use and development of the adjacent property.
It will not substantially increase congestion in the public streets.
If anything, it will decrease public congestion.
It will not be detrimental to public welfare.
It will be a boost and a benefit to local economies who, in this post-COVID-19 world,
are desperately in need of some boost and a little bit of injection of blood.
and it is less impactful, and I cannot stress this enough, it is less impactful than the already
approved multifamily use. There will be no loading zone, no valet parking, nothing of that sort.
So I would ask that and request that the board approve this variance for all the reasons that
I stated. Thank you. Any questions from the board?
so chair we do have um miss tavani yeah i just wanted to check i wanted to check with the board
first so miss miss tavani thank you mr chairman suzanne tavani s-u-z-a-n-n-e tavani t-a-v-a-n-i
Tavani, T-A-V-A-N-I, 939 Federal Street, Philadelphia, 19147.
939 federal street
I chair the zoning committee for the Passion Square Civic Association.