The Parkside district, the proposed district is very small, and James Brown is one of the primary supporters of the creation of that historic district.
Yes, he is, and for the Commission itself. He's been a great advocate for that. So we may be ready to consider that at an appropriate time, but not the other. But 70 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. I appreciate your saying you won't move forward, because we've been through that, and us having debates in here doesn't help any of us. So I think that that's probably a good way to go, Madam President, with those whose Councilpeople and communities are ready, then maybe it wouldn't be so long.
If you have to wait five years, you'll either be ready or you'll never be ready, believe me. This morning before coming into the hearing, I received a letter from a small construction firm located in Center City and he went on to say how important the Philadelphia Historic Commission is. Furthermore, he went on to say, Our gross receipt tax alone for 2006 was approximately $70,000, not including permit fees, licenses, skilled union labor or wage tax. The Historic Commission is providing the City with 71 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. valuable services that are financially benefit to the City and local business. So, again, I am going to ask Ms. Reed -- I don't see her. I assume she's still here -- to please look into this very carefully and get back to us. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much. MR. McPHERSON: Our next department is the Department of Streets.
Oh, I have one last question. Once you do the designation, how many additional properties will you have to be overseeing?
John Farnham again. Currently, the Commission has designated approximately 10,700 72 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. properties. If all five districts were designated as currently proposed, it would add about 3,035 properties. We would expect an increase of or 6 percent in our permit applications, which 7 is the primary work that the Commission 8 does. 9
Let me likewise note, in opening mail, I just received a letter today from James Brown, who, as you know, is Executive Director of the Parkside Historic Preservation Corporation, certainly asking for an increase by 300,000 to allow you to do the work that you do. So I want you to know that you do have many advocates out there who value the work that you 73 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. perform. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. I also see John Gallery sitting in the back of the room, who has written saying how important it is that we try to look at your budget very closely. So I thank you so much again.
The next department to testify? MR. McPHERSON: The Department of Streets.
Good morning. Welcome. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Good morning, Council President.
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: My name is Clarena Tolson, Commissioner of the Department of Streets. 74 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I'm here today to present testimony on behalf of the Department's proposed 2008 Operating Budget. We request a General Fund appropriation of 129 million and an all funds appropriation of 160 million. Our proposed budget in the General Fund requests 66 million for Class 100 personal services, an increase of 1.7 million over the 2007 estimated obligations; 58 million for Class 200 purchase of services, an increase of 110,000; and 4 million for Class 300 materials and supplies, a decrease of 1.7 million; and 53,000 for Class 500 contributions. The General Fund appropriation reflects a general --
Commissioner, excuse me, please. We would really appreciate it if you could abbreviate your testimony. A copy will 75 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. be given to the stenographer and it will be transcribed in full. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Thank you. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you. The General Fund appropriation reflects a general reduction of 2.5 percent in personal services and a four percent wage increase effective July 1, 2007. Many important services are provided by the Streets Department, including sanitation services, which includes household collections and street cleaning, recycling services, as well as other special services through education and enforcement. Additionally, in our Transportation Division, we're responsible for roadway maintenance, storm response, as we were active today, traffic engineering, bridge maintenance, as well as street lighting and survey 76 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. work. The employees of the Streets Department continue to work diligently in the delivery of services to our citizens and neighborhoods and to improve the quality of life in our city by providing clean and safe streets. Therefore, we request favorable consideration of this budget request. I'm available for any questions at this time.
Thank you very much, Commissioner. On of your testimony, you mention recycling and the "All Together Now" program. When will this program be offered citywide? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I have with me Carlton Williams, who is the Deputy Commissioner who heads the Sanitation Division, and he's quite excited about this program, so I'd like to have him answer this question. I'm familiar with it, but I think it's a very 77 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. great program that he's developed. He should be proud of it, and I'm proud of him for it. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Council President. My name is Carlton Williams, Deputy Commissioner for the Streets Department. Since we rolled out the single-stream recycling program in the Northeast and Southwest Philadelphia, we've seen nearly a combined effect of a 45 percent increase, without any additional costs to our Operating Budget, and this is something that's exciting for us, because it has moved the diversion rate. The diversion rate for years hasn't moved past six percent and it's now up to 7.2 percent that we're projecting at the end of the year, and we plan on rolling out in a three-year phase to the entire City.
So when do you plan to offer it citywide? 78 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Within the three-year period.
Oh, within a three-year period. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
You mention that the recycling diversion rates are approximately 7 percent for city curbside collections. How does this compare to other cities? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, one of the things that we've had a challenge with to explain to the public is that it's difficult to compare our city with other cities because you don't collect the same amount of materials. For instance, in New York they add abandoned cars in their recycling rate. Other cities use a combined recycling rate, such as commercial and residential. If we combined our commercial and residential, we'll be up at 38 percent. We use a number from our curbside 79 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. program, which is percent. So it's very difficult for us to compare ourselves to like Los Angeles, New York and Chicago, because they use different materials.
On and 4 of your testimony, you mention the Philadelphia More Beautiful Committee's Clean Block program. The annual General Fund contribution to support this program is $48,000 or thereabouts. When was the last time this funding was increased? Because I'll tell you, going through the areas, everybody complains about the terrible, terrible dirty streets and I know we don't clean the streets year round. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I don't have the exact date --
In South Philadelphia when we attempted this program, people went ballistic because they had to move their cars and they didn't want to do that. But can you tell 80 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. me when the last time -- (Councilman Kenney talking without a microphone.)
Stuff doesn't fall from the sky. It comes out of people's hands.
Exactly. So, again, I would ask you, when was the last time that this funding was increased? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: This particular contribution, I believe it's been over six years.
The Administration has reduced your General Fund full-time position level from 1,939 in the current budget to 1,901 in FY08. Can you tell us where you took the 38 position reduction and the operational impact of this cut? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Many of 81 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the positions have come from our condo allocation. Because of the relatively smaller number of users that we have in that system -- we presently have 6 locations as of January -- fortunately 7 the locations taking advantage of the 8 condo collections, the positions came 9 from there. Most of our positions came 10 from there. 11
Well, 12 does that mean you're not going to be 13 picking up from the condominiums? 14 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 15 Those that have selected our service, we are collecting from them. I think that we had anticipated a larger number, a larger response, and we did not get that. So because we had a smaller response, we were able to reduce the allocation towards that service.
Are the responses that you received, are most of them in Center City? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. We 82 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. have people all over the City, condos all over the City that we service.
I'm just trying to visualize how large some of these condos are. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. This is Deputy Commissioner Williams again. The larger condominiums with smaller space were found in Center City. We had condo locations, and we had defined them as locations, because a unit can have over three to four thousand units within a location. We are not servicing those areas. We're finding that we're servicing the ones, for instance, in the Northeast when they were more spread out and easier to collect curbside. The ones with multiple collection days have opted not to accept the service.
The 83 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
It's not that they've opted not to accept the service. They can't accept the service because their insurance providers will not allow the City trucks to go onto their property to pick it up. And since they've taken a 38-person reduction, you can get more reduced, if you'd like. 11 All the City has to do is just reimburse 12 the condo associations for the trash 13 pick-up and we don't have to talk about 14 personnel, equipment, insurance or anything else, and it's cheaper. I mean, I don't get it. I mean, I understand this decision is not coming directly from the Streets Department, but if you can do it more efficiently by reimbursement, you can do it cheaper by reimbursement and you don't need 38 people or the 14 people that's doing it now, because if you wrote them a check, the private haulers would be taking it like they've always taken it. 84 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. To me it's totally ridiculous.
That's a shame. Councilman Kenney, I know before we even voted on this bill, that was your concept from very early on.
When we first recommended it, they said we couldn't do it, it's too expensive. And then when they were forced to do it, they say that -- it's one excuse after the other, when the direct, more intelligent way of doing it is sitting down and writing a check for a very small amount of money compared to what it costs us to pick it up. And those discussions hopefully are ongoing. We've been trying to get the Mayor to sit and talk with the representatives of the larger condos. I'm trying to find out what the status of that is, but it's a little frustrating.
Well -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilwoman, can I just clarify one 85 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. point as well on that?
Please. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: For the total positions that were dropped, 7 were from the condominium, 17 were from 8 the Highways Group. Those were the folks 9 who supported the Hot in Place Paving 10 program, and one was from a grant that we 11 had from DVRPC. 12
Were 13 these people under DROP? 14 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Through attrition we're losing them.
On of your testimony, you mention that you will receive a million dollar grant for Safe Route to School. How many flashing signs will we be able to install with this grant and what is the cost of a flashing signal? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The flashing signal, I believe the unit costs about $25,000. Let me just confirm that. 86 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Yes, about 20, thousand per school.
Boy, 5 that keeps going up, too. 6 Okay. And I am sure that we 7 have quite a waiting list of requests for 8 the flashing lights. 9 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We should 10 complete the waiting list this year. 11 Within the next fiscal year, 12 we'll complete the waiting list. 13 However, there are a number of schools 14 that have not requested them as of yet. 15 So each additional year you'll simply do 16 those that have not requested, because we 17 will have the ability to take care of 18 them. 19
20 Commissioner, are you referring to 2008 21 or 2009? 22 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: 2008. 23
And I 24 see one of my favorite people in the 25 audience and I know this is a Capital 87 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Budget question, but do we have money for new street lights? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have very -- right now we do not.
Very little. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. We expect that when we get a Capital Budget, that we will have some limited amount, nothing for any wholesale installations.
Thank you, Madam President. Two kind of follow-ups, I guess, on issues that were brought up, but since street lighting was the last one, it seems like on basic repairs when somebody calls in a street light that's out, you get to it pretty quickly, and that's great. I know sometimes there's wiring problems that take a little longer, but alley lights seem to be more 88 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. of a problem. It seems like there's often time -- what is your average wait on that or how long does it take to usually get to an alley light? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It can vary. It depends upon the number of complaints that come in at any given time. People tend to be more concerned about it in certain parts of the year than others. And we've also changed our strategy to respond to them. It used to be that we kind of metered out our response over the course of a year so that we did so many each month so that we can always respond to challenges and problems, and what we're doing now is we're just simply tackling everything that's on the list.
Because I remember at one time in my life before this life, the street lighting division would say sometimes, Well, we maintained that a certain amount of time ago, so even though it's out, we're not going to 89 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. get to it for a long time. Is that still the -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think the situation that you're describing is one where we had repeat problems.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: And they're not operational or electrical problems. They're not a wiring problem. It's sometimes a problem where people are shooting them out or vandals are shaking the pole with the intent of doing damage or causing some other problem. But by and large, I think that we're trying to maintain a schedule that's closer to just a couple weeks. Some of them are a little faster, some of them are a little bit longer, depending upon what the problem is. If we can access the alleyway, we try to respond fairly quickly. A significant problem does come up and we've had a significant backlog with people who do not have access to 90 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. their rears, either gates, unsafe conditions with animals in the back or debris that the households put out in the alleys so that --
They couldn't get through to maintain them. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They can't get through.
Okay. As long as we're talking time frame, I know you were working on that program with the pothole/plumbers' ditch repairs, which was -- what was the time frame you were working on? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It's a next-day response. It's been a quite successful program. It's run by our Highways Division that has done an excellent job. What it guarantees is, on all potholes that the City maintains, we will respond the next day to repair that pothole within our pothole season, and we're certainly in pothole season now.
I was 91 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. going to say, this is probably prime time, right, the end of the winter? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, it's prime time now.
Although we're still in winter, I guess. I don't know. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: And our average response time at this point is the one day.
Now, is that plumbers' ditches, too? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Ditches are different. Ditches, our goal timeline for response is 30 days. Right now coming off of the winter when you have been unable to permanently repair ditches, we do have a backlog. We expect to have that backlog gone within a couple of months, I would say. Yes. By the end of this fiscal year, the backlog will be gone, and we will then be able to maintain our 30-day response pretty handedly. We were able to do that last 92 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. year, and our citizens, I think, really appreciated it and they told us that, which was a big boost to the folks who work in the division, because they saw the efforts appreciated in a big way. It got to the point where we were able -- our process is one where a call comes in, people identify a pothole and an inspector goes out to make sure that it is a pothole. We've had to do that because, unfortunately, about 30 percent of the calls that say they're potholes they aren't.
They're ditches of some sort, right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They're ditches. They could be a missing utility cover or sunk-in cover, a whole host of things. And our inspector often times will call the individual that makes the request -- they give you a telephone number -- to confirm that we have the right location, that we're not missing something. It could be under a car and 93 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. we don't see it. So that has gone along quite smoothly quite nicely.
Great. Just one more follow-up, and as Councilman Kenney said, I know you kind of have to do what the Administration instructs you to do in this case, but on the condo trash pick-up -- I know Deputy Commissioner said that there was only so many that were participating so far, but what kind of strain on your manpower would you have if these bigger condos just decided, You know what, we're going to ask you to do this since it's your responsibility right now to do? And I certainly agree with Councilman Kenney, that certainly tax credits seem to make a heck of a lot more sense economically and otherwise. But how would you handle that? I mean, do you have people like ready to go if the Philadelphian and Society Hill Towers and all these places started saying, We want our trash picked up? 94 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, Councilman. We actually prior to the start of the service, we prepared ourselves by surveying the facilities to determine what type of dumpsters we'd use, make sure we had the proper type of truck that would handle the service, and that's why we staffed appropriately and also prepared ourselves in terms of our disposal capacity.
And that would not have an effect on your personnel as it is now? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 16
Because if you're not doing it now, those people are doing something else, right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, we were to staff up to that level to support the condo collection, but we did not staff to that level because the condo collection didn't happen on a wholesale level.
And I 95 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. know this isn't your thing as much as the Law Department, but on the issue that Councilman Kenney brought up as far as the condos and the damage that could be done insurance-wise and whatever, has that been discussed? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I had not heard of the insurance issue previously. I had not heard of the insurance being a concern.
We did hear that from condo associations, that they didn't want -- you had issues of damage and that kind of thing or allegations of damage. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We were not advised of that.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo. 96 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.
I hope that if there's a fire, they'll allow the fire truck to come. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm sorry?
I hope if there's a fire, they'll allow the fire truck to come to the condos. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
I want to talk about the school zones first. I've noticed that the school zones are now -- they say miles an hour. Rarely a 15 person goes through a school zone at 15 miles an hour. Is there any work between the Streets Department and the Police Department to do some collective enforcement -- I guess that's a word from the last decade -- to periodically monitor some of the locations? I know on the way to work, Henry Avenue by the Saul School, if anybody is doing 30 through that school zone, that's slow. And then 97 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. I notice -- and I'm going to look into legislation. I'm not hot on banning people from using cell phones while they drive, but through a school zone, maybe that should be where we start with that. I see people talking on cell phones. So I'm wondering, what do we do to monitor those? I know the Streets Department certainly is the installer and really don't get involved in the enforcement, but is there any data on how effective they are? Does the Police Department look at those occasionally to see how fast people are going through there? Do you have the ability to monitor, just pick a couple different locations to see what kind of speeds are really occurring there? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. I think you're making an excellent point, Councilman, and, in fact, I can say that we are partnering with the Police Department and -- you used the word "selective enforcement." I won't say 98 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. that. However, we do move from school to school every day of the week, and they are monitoring the locations for abuses and reckless driving behavior, whether it's not stopping properly for a school bus if the school bus is in use, making a turn on red when there's a sign up for that, moving recklessly through the zone. It's difficult to do the speed enforcement because most of it you can't travel -- you're not getting to the -- you can't clock the 30 miles an hour in that kind of area. And we do have data for that. I did not bring that with me, but it's something that is regularly monitored and it's an ongoing project.
Commissioner, as a motorist, you just said something that's important, just as a driver. In my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong, that any intersection that has a school crossing guard should automatically be a "no turn on red" location. I was amazed at a particular 99 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. location there was a school crossing a person and there was no regulation not to turn right on red. Would my concept work that if there's a school crossing guard, that automatically that should become an intersection that is posted "no turn on red"? Because this person made a right on the red while the school crossing guard was right in the middle of the intersection, and she said a few kind words to the person, but the person really wasn't wrong in making the right on the red. Does it make sense to possibly consider that the Police Department provide all the locations that are controlled by a crossing officer and post those "no turn on red"? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That is something that we will definitely consider. It's a good idea. We have an ongoing committee that meets on school safety that includes not just the Police 100 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Department and Streets but also includes the Parking Authority and the School District, the Archdiocese, and we address various issues. So at our next meeting, which is this week on Thursday, I believe, we will address this point.
I assume that would kind of be an easy process where the Police Department would just tell you where those locations are, and I'm sure many of them already are posted, but there's a couple that I've noticed that there is personnel there, but the intersection does allow you to make a right on a red. Going back to the school zones, I assume the tool of a traffic engineer, even though it's not for enforcement, is a radar device that they can actually -- they have a radar gun like the Police do to monitor the speed? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. We don't have any radar guns.
You don't? 101 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 3
How does the Streets Department monitor speed? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm sorry. I apologize. We do have a radar gun.
I thought that I saw somewhere that speed -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have one.
I'd be curious if maybe -- and I know you're very busy, but just to confirm what I believe about the speeds in our school zones, that if maybe four or five locations over a few-month period before school is over could be checked to see what kind of speeds are truly -- I'm the kind of person you just don't want to throw it out there. You want to make sure that what you believe is occurring is occurring. But just based on driving, you see the speeds of people. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I 102 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. understand.
And I'm also going to check to see if there is anything in the Motor Vehicle Code that would prohibit a person, without creating a new law, to prohibit a person from using a cell phone as they travel through a school zone. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you.
Again, thank you very much, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. Just so the discussion is clear, relative to the issue on liability with the large condo associations as opposed to a fire emergency is that there is refrigeration equipment, there's tight space, there's issues of workmen's comp, 103 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. issues on private property. It's a complicated thing. It's not as simple as a ladder or engine truck coming to save people's lives. It's kind of a weekly interaction that the insurance companies for the condos themselves have said, We're not going to cover this. So that's the reason why. It's not just being stubborn. It's they have some serious concerns, and I hope they can be worked out. So I just wanted to make sure the record was clear. But just one final thing. Did you thank God yet? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, indeed.
You know what I thanked him for this week? That that Nor'easter didn't happen a month, a month and a half ago. 104 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I was thinking about a half hour ago, actually.
Because could you imagine three feet two months before the election after what we went through in '96? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 9
You're welcome. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I will thank him when I leave here today as well.
Just one last question, Commissioner. You mention in your testimony about soft rumble strips. How many of those roughly do you have around and what have you found the effect? Have there been any studies to show the effect of them? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We are 105 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. using them in a number of locations and we're using other alternatives as well. I don't have my exact number, but I'll get that for you in terms --
If you could. I'd be interested, because I know a few years ago there was one put on Pennsylvania Avenue around the Philadelphian apartments and now condo, and people thought that they didn't really have as much of an effect. People wanted the best of all worlds. They wanted traffic slowed down, but they didn't want any noise, which I know is kind of hard to do. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have something called Slow Down Philadelphia that we're developing, and what we have learned and what we knew but we are expanding is that different approaches are needed for different scenarios, depending upon how wide the street is, what type of vehicle traffic you have on it, trucks and whatnot, whether it's 106 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. residential or commercial. So we have been trying to test different approaches in an effort to slow the traffic down.
Because I know that's a complaint we get a lot. Traffic goes too fast everywhere, I guess. I'm just trying to determine how those might work. Okay. Thank you. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you.
Thank you, Madam President. Certainly I want to thank the Streets Department, our Commissioner, Commissioner Tolson, and Deputy Commissioner Williams, who we worry daily. In fact, I said I had to call them today. We got a big pothole at 45th and Chestnut, going down Chestnut Street 107 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. in the morning, and I've been meaning to call. But when your car almost won't come out, I said, well, I guess I'd better do it now, and with the rain coming. But we also want to thank you for the focus on recycling. Recycling has become a major issue in my district, as you know, and we continue to give out the bins, and Marty, who is in the hallway, goes to a meeting almost every night. And had I known that it would be that issue, Madam President, I would have focused on that a long time ago and maybe I wouldn't have to work so hard in many other areas since this recycling is such a major, major issue. But we do thank you. We do really support that. And I know that numbers have gone up with the degree of recycling we have. Thank you again for the bins and the information and coming out, Commissioner Williams, to our 108 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. communities whenever they call. It's always a good meeting when you come out to talk about recycling. It makes our job a lot easier. But we do support you in all that happens and look forward to a great year ahead. Thank you, Madam President.
One question I forgot to ask relative to recycling. Have you been able to assign an amount of money savings for every percentage of trash diverted? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Hi. This is Deputy Commissioner Williams again. Yes. We measure it in terms of tonnage, and the tonnage that we don't divert to a landfill is approximately $60 a ton right now.
And how many tons does that represent currently? 109 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, last year -- I can give you last year's numbers. We diverted 40,000 tons. It saved us approximately $2.4 million that we didn't have to pay to disposal companies.
Do you have the leeway to rededicate that savings back into expanding recycling within your own department? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Say it again.
Do you have the ability to assign that savings to expanding recycling? Because it seems to me obviously the more tonnage we divert, the more savings we have, the more monies available for recycling. We can maybe accelerate our recycling program instead of over three years maybe even shorter. Do you have that authority or do you need to go to ask for an appropriation for that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 110 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Our revenues go back to the General Fund.
So you can't capture some of that savings? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 6
Is Councilman Clarke in the room? (No response.)
I don't see him. Do we have anyone else that would like to ask any questions or make any comments? (No response.)
A quick question about street lights. I understand -- and if 111 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Mr. Doyle could come.
I understand they have these blips back and forth with the number of troubled reports with street lights that PECO Energy handles where you see multiple lights out, and Councilman Greenlee was kind of referring to some of those issues. It went pretty high, I understand, in the last few weeks, month. It was over a hundred and now it's down to 90. Could you, for the record, tell us -- I believe PECO tries their best to respond to our requests, but there are lots of areas still. I mentioned to you earlier -- and I know they're state involved -- Gustine Lake and some of the overhead signage. The lights at the intersections at Kelly Drive and Wissahickon have been out for many, many months. Could you just briefly describe 112 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. what you believe the response of the people that need to provide you support to get these lights back in service, both the overhead signage -- I know that may be City. I'm not sure whether it's City, whether it's PennDOT, but it still is City of Philadelphia. We had a time before Commissioner Tolson when you'd call the Streets Departments and you wanted a pothole fixed, they gave you the phone number for PennDOT. I hope those days are over. So if we have a sign that's not lighted at night and it is a PennDOT sign, that we take that very seriously and let PennDOT know that it needs to get fixed. Could you just describe where we are right now, the relationship? Are you satisfied with it? Do they need to do more? Where exactly are we and do you consider over a hundred trouble reports significant?
Joseph Doyle, Chief 113 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Street Lighting Engineer. Councilman, you've asked kind of a broad range of questions.
Our relationship with PennDOT is obviously different than our relationship with PECO, and yet we're depending on both of them when it comes to operating and maintaining lighting that's in the City versus the City's lighting. To kind of tackle one question at a time, as far as PennDOT is concerned, PennDOT, of course, is responsible for maintaining all of the lighting on the interstate highway system and the ramps that approach it. In particular, this does include the twin bridges at City Avenue and Gustine Lake. I know there have been ongoing problems with PennDOT and the lighting there, because you personally have contacted us on this. They are working 114 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. now, and we actually had a meeting with the PennDOT Supervisor just last Friday to try to clarify some of those issues. So, yes, we hope to have that improve with PennDOT, including sign lighting. There was a question that they brought up about sign lighting. They were confused and thought that some of the lighting on the signs, on PennDOT's own signs, were maintained by the City, and I corrected them on that. No, they're PennDOT responsibility. So I think they're going to have a little stronger initiative in that area to pick that up and improve that. The relationship with PECO, of course, is different. They provide our repairs to underground lighting that actually do belong to the City. It's the City street lights. You're right that the backlog of repairs kind of peaks in the wintertime. It's obviously more difficult for them to work considering 115 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the bad weather and ice and snow, and conversely the salt and other chemicals on the road further aggravate the problem. So you have an increase in outages and a decrease in the ability to repair them. However, PECO has picked this up in the last couple of years where they now use more outside contractors. They had traditionally tried to make all the repairs with their own people, but that's improved quite a bit and they now use contractors for that work. So that has helped bring those numbers down from a backlog and outage. And I think that that is the experience that we've seen on heavy corridors, like Henry Avenue, Roosevelt Boulevard in particular. The Boulevard has been very well maintained by PECO in the last couple of years where prior it was less than ideal. So overall, we are trying to kind of keep our -- there's a lot of competing priorities obviously on storm 116 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. work. PECO diverts their forces off on a Nor'easter, which detracts from their ability to repair street light circuits, so the next week that number will go up and possibly they won't be able to bring that number down as quickly as we would like. So, clearly, there's a balance and a priority system, but we think that our relationship with PECO is really customer oriented. They do want to provide a good service, and I know your help with them has often been helpful to try to get that reprioritized sometimes.
Thank you, Mr. Doyle. And I want to thank the Commissioner, because lighting is a very important part of the Boulevard safety initiative. I do recall when there were dozens of lights in various areas on the Boulevard, and rarely, to your efforts, do I see a light out. Since we've had this confusion with the lighted signs, I don't think it 117 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. would be a bad idea since PennDOT didn't know that it was their responsibility and the City wasn't fixing them, the reason it got to my attention was that I have seen those lights out now for many, many months, and you figure, well, next week it will be on, well, next week it will be on, because the street lights were out and I didn't know whether it was a part of the street light outage that created the overhead signs to be out. Do we know where we have illuminated signs in the County of Philadelphia that are PennDOT responsibility to determine whether they're on or off? Because I'm sure PennDOT is not going to go out and look for them.
Well, actually, they showed a lot more interest in this when they realized they were their responsibility and not the City's.
Who is paying the electric? 118 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.
And that's neat. They pay for the electric and assume the bulk --
Suffice it to say that we're trying to work with PennDOT. They understand their responsibilities. We are going to have a follow-up meeting with them to see how that works. So I will with certainly put that on the agenda, that that's their first responsibility, is to deal with the sign lighting issue and get that up to speed.
So it's fair to say, so I know what I'm looking at and talking about, that any illuminated sign in the City of Philadelphia is a PennDOT responsibility?
It's not a Streets Department responsibility. I'm presuming they're all PennDOT. I don't have that list in front of me, so to speak, to say about every sign. There could be Port Authority signs that are down near the 119 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. bridges.
I don't know every sign in Philadelphia that has illumination on it. I only know that none of them are maintained by the Streets Department. So that those other types of signs that may exist are other agencies -- the owner of the sign is normally responsible for lighting the sign. So if it's a Port Authority sign, for example, then it would be the Port Authority would do the lighting.
So other than Port Authority, the biggest piece of it probably would be PennDOT, because the signs that -- before you get on a limited access, the Expressway, you're coming down City Avenue, there's a big sign. It's illuminated. It's supposed to be anyway. I would assume it's PennDOT?
And they didn't know that it was their maintenance 120 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. responsibility? I don't mean to put them on the spot, but I'm just curious. That really is hard for me to believe.
Confusion? You are so polite, confusion. Okay. So if there's a light out on one of the signs that gives direction that's very important at night, it's not the Streets Department, it's some other agency than the Streets Department to get the light back on?
Okay. I wonder how we audit that, to go and ask PennDOT to do it. Could that be the way to do that? At least that would take the biggest piece of it. Could you get PennDOT to check every one of the ones that they know that they own that they're lighted at night?
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Good afternoon.
I just have a couple of brief questions. With respect to the recent snow/ice storm, the Department had a treatment that, I guess, included cinders or something in a very aggressive way, and it was pretty effective in minimizing the problems as it relates to the ice, but the aftermath of that is somewhat problematic in a lot of parts of the district. The cinders just won't go away. Even in spite of the recent monsoon that we had over the last hours, they're still there. How can 24 we get rid of these things? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The 122 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Streets Department through Sanitation is systematically going through the City and clearing locations by mechanical broom. We certainly would encourage any locations that you have or problem blocks to let us know and we will take care of them. But additionally, I think that we ask for citizen assistance and help to clear the cinders away as soon as possible. I wouldn't have thought that we needed them this late in the year. However, it was still good to have some of them around given the slush that we saw this morning. But you are right. During the wintertime, they were wonderful because it helps to minimize accidents. It's an anti-skid material. It did a great job for that, but it has certainly passed its usefulness for us -- well, at least hopefully today it has passed its usefulness in terms of its application on the streets. So we are cleaning blocks. If 123 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. there are locations that people are aware of, they can call in and we will address them more expeditiously, and we ask for our citizen support and assistance, if they can.
With respect to our, I guess maybe three or four times, I know the Streets Department through Philly More Beautiful has a program where they go out and do cleaning in the blocks, encouraging citizen participation, but it appears that the participation has been dwindling over the last several years. Can you give me a sense of what's going on with that and what we can do to encourage more participation? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Citizen participation through PMBC is critical for us. I think all of us in government appreciate that government can't do it by itself. We need to work with the citizens for whom we are public servants. I have some of the stats for 124 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. the last couple of years. The numbers are fairly consistent. In 2005, we had 9,600 organized clean-ups. In 2006, we had 9,900 organized clean-ups. Each time we picked up about 2.1 million pounds of litter. And we had 88,000 volunteers in 2005 and 89,000 in 2006. So I think that with a little, a lot has been done. Our block captains list is growing. People are becoming more and more involved.
How do we know that, that the block captains list is growing, since it is quite a secretive list? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I appreciate that. You have to trust me, Councilman. We have people who are becoming more and more active. It used to be one where I think it was mostly older people, a lot of them women, and we're seeing different people who are becoming part of that next. People are saying they want to take on the challenge 125 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. and become owners of their block. We try to make it non-political. We say, You're not becoming a ward leader. You're not becoming a district man or woman. You have one block. That's the only block that you have to worry about, the only thing that we want you to tackle. And it's been quite effective. We've also been bringing in children. I think there's nearly 600 junior block captains, children who are under the age of who are either 14 partnering with an adult or who on their 15 own are taking leadership for organizing 16 the children in the block and doing 17 clean-up, fixing, painting, whatever, to 18 help to maintain litter-free blocks. And we can see that PMBC is quite effective in what it does. By and large, I would say you can drive around a neighborhood and see some blocks that are littered and dirty and then you get to one block that looks like a jewel, and that's usually a PMBC block. And a lot 126 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. of bad things don't happen on PMBC blocks, because people also become involved in Town Watch and Elder Care and the like. As Councilman Kenney was mentioning earlier, they don't let the stuff fly from hands to the street, because the people who are cleaning the street don't want other people to come through and litter and make it dirty.
Right. Out on the campaign trail you hear a lot of complaints about a lot of things and so I'm asking these questions. I'm getting a lot of complaints about the Sanitation trash pick-ups where in some instances there's debris left over from the pick-up and there's no 19 attempt to clean it up. People are saying that sometimes the trash guys, you know, they like to throw the things and they do -- and I want to emphasize that they do a really good job out in the neighborhood. It's a very difficult job. But sometimes they leave a block and 127 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. there's streams of leftovers in the street. What is the policy on that? I mean, if you missed the truck when you throw the trash bag and it hits the end and bursts open and some of the stuff is on the street, what -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There's a couple ways that I would approach that question. One, I agree with you, it is a very tough job. I've collected trash to understand how it works, to understand what my staff goes through. It's difficult and it's a challenge. However, the trucks are required to carry and we supply brooms and shovels. So if a collector chooses to toss a bag and it misses the truck and it breaks and splatters, they have to clean that up. On the same hand, and I would say --
Are they instructed to do that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And a good way 128 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. for us to address that is if people call to complain about that, we send that same truck back to that location to clean up. And the crews hate to do that. They don't want to have to go back to the same block twice, because it wastes their time and we have expectations about how much work that they're going to do in a day. So it's effective, but we need people to address it. If people are reckless in their behavior, to advise of individual circumstances. The other thing that is a challenge with regard to the materials that are messy after trash day is how people put trash out. Most times pizza boxes, they never make it into a trash bag or a trash can. They're laid on top. And there's other type of irregular-shaped debris or people just have extra stuff that comes out late and they just lay it on top. They don't bag it up. People also are not using cans properly or the proper size bags. The 129 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. little three-gallon bag that you get from the supermarket, little plastic bag, people use those for trash bags. It's completely inappropriate. They're not meant to hold trash. They leak. They tear. They rip. They're meant to carry your milk from the store to home, not much more than that. And the other way that we get material -- as you say, for that one, the solution is that we have to continue to educate people about the proper containers. Because it actually is against the regulations to put your materials out in a bag of that size. But if you would drive around any section of the City, Center City to the Northeast to the Northwest to the Southwest and South Philadelphia, if you spread out, you're going to see those bags being used, and I think people do it because the bags are free, in a sense. You've already got that bag at home, you might as well put 20 of them in front of your house. But 130 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. we've had people who put sharp items in those bags. We have people who put bricks and construction debris in plastic bags. It just doesn't work and it's not meant to happen. The other way that the trash gets on the street is that pedestrians often times will see trash out and walking past will just lay their materials on top and not try to put it in a container or otherwise, and that's a problem, as well as people ripping into trash, looking for things and people who are from other counties or New Jersey who leave trash, because they know in Philadelphia we'll pick it up. So any place that you come into the City, whether it be Broad Street or Henry Avenue or Belmont, where people come into the City, they find a place to leave their materials behind.
Right. One last question. The disposal of computers -- this is actually one of 131 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. those questions that came up. Councilman Greenlee and I happened to be at a function the other night and we were talking about recycling and then the gentleman wanted to know was there a recycling program for computers. I didn't know and we kind of, frankly speaking, said that's something that never came up. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We are developing that. That's called eCycling in the industry. I'm going to let the Deputy speak more to that issue. But it's something that is being developed more and more around the country, because we don't want to dispose of those items in the trash. But it is called eCycling and he can address it further, if you'd like. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Councilman, each year we have six locations where they can drop off hazardous material that a household has on his waste days, and one of the things 132 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. that we have as a component of that is where you can drop off your old computer equipment at those locations at our area yards.
Are they recycled? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes.
All right. Now, if we could just remember the gentleman's name that asked us that question, I'd like to get -- because he was quite interested in that. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We can get some material to your offices that you can share with your constituents with regard to when these events are scheduled. They're very, very popular. I think that people like that idea. And it helps us. Every time we have somebody bring in a gallon of motor oil or quart of motor oil, that's something if it were put in the trash, it could contaminate ground and groundwater very easily, and 133 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. it can contaminate a lot of it. It spreads quickly, spreads easily.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
Commissioner, did you say there's only six days? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six days throughout the year where we invite the public in to bring all of their material.
Why would we discourage someone from disposing of something properly? I know that was one of the concerns, where people wanted to go to a location and dump something and they were told, Well, no, we can't accept it. Then they go three blocks away and short dump. Why can't we make it easy for people to do it the right way? 134 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Can we clarify that? Those drop-off days are what we call our household hazardous waste days, and for that, we bring in a vendor. I think it's Clean Ventures. And some of this material is quite dangerous. We've had people bring in acids. Something like oil-based paint seems simple enough for any of us to handle, but you never know what you're going to get. So we get other cleaning products, unlabeled chemicals. So all of that is taken by a certified vendor, who has to test it and then process it. And those materials, we don't want the chemicals at a facility, because you don't know what you're going to get. There's all kinds of stuff that people have in their homes.
Okay. Let's -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: But if it were something that's more direct and simple -- 135 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.
A computer. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: -- then you can bring that to any of our drop-off points.
Any time? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Where we have a citizen drop-off. We have those around the City.
So there's no restriction? Because I got confused. I thought you were restricting the drop-off of a computer to six days. So you're not doing that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 16 Computers can be taken at any time. However, to get some of our chemicals, we're challenged with that.
I'm not talking about that. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: But we promote eCycling in our household hazardous waste. And also, we don't promote cans and bottles for those days.
136 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. Commissioner, another thing just to end this. One of the things that really is a mess -- I don't know, and I checked on it before. Sometimes the garbage or the debris that's left in the compactors, when they compress the truck, all this fluid comes out of them, and they go from one stop to the other leaving a trail. It stays forever, it seems, whatever this contaminant is. And I assume the point that you're making right now, if somebody puts motor oil in there, if it opens, it get into the truck. But they tell me that there's -- Fleet Management said that there's some seals that are very significant in those trucks so that trail of garbage or contaminated liquid doesn't coat all over the City streets. I mean, you can actually see the trail of the truck, where it goes from one side of the street to the other discharging whatever this fluid is. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yeah. We have -- 137 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC.
How does it get in there? Is it rainwater that gets mixed with the -- how does all this, whatever it is, get into these trucks? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It could be rainwater or it could be things that people put in the trash. Councilman, I would hate to tell you what people put in a bottle and then put in the trash bag.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I mean, I think that people assume that because you can't see it, it won't hurt you. Unfortunately, we've had people who have been killed on the job collecting trash, which is a horror. I mean, it's not right. We've had people who have been sickened. That happens fairly regularly, because people put something in the trash. And, I mean, we've seen people who gingerly carried something out to the curb, put it on the curb and then walked away from it. So it was dangerous enough for them to carry it out gingerly from 138 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. their house or their home. However, they left it out for pedestrians, children and for the trash collector to pick up. We have people who are regularly pricked by intravenous needles. You don't know where it's come from. And then there's always the feces, and you never know whether it's animal or human.
It's tough, no question. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: And we've had that be in the back of the truck and having that pop and splatter in your face or whatnot.
But I was told whatever these seals are in those trucks, they're designed to contain that material, and sometimes these seals deteriorate or break. Maybe Commissioner Carlton Williams knows what I'm talking about. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I understand what you're talking about. The challenge, the seals that -- we 139 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. replace seals. Sometimes we have challenges with just other cracks or whatever. So we've had to do additional welding. So whenever we come across a truck that begins to leak for whatever reason --
Councilman Rizzo, that was a point of information.
Master of the point of information, my good friend. A couple of quick follow-ups. One, at an earlier hearing -- I think it was actually last year -- I was telling you about a section of my district actually in kind of Fishtown, lower Kensington where there were a lot of industrial buildings, and I was telling you about the operators of those facilities not cleaning their sidewalks. I have seen no degree that that has been 140 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. enforced or addressed, because the same buildings continue to have the same debris on the sidewalks, and you indicated at the last hearing that you were going to have your, I guess, sweeps officers -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
-- go out and aggressively enforce that, and nothing is happening. I got hit with that again at a community meeting the other night. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, after the meeting, after today's session, can we make contact with you again to refresh us about the locations?
Yes, please. One last thing -- and I don't know if there's anything we can do about this. In a lot of parts of the City, not only in my district, you have these little corner stores and they have these 141 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. little -- everybody gets plastic bags now, no longer the paper bags, and the people come out of the store with the plastic bags, take whatever it is out of the plastic bag and disposes of the plastic bag, unfortunately, on the street. And these little plastic bags, they blow down the street and they end up resting against a fence or a property or something. And you can pretty much tell when you're walking down the street that there's one of these little corner stores in proximity to your location because of the level of that type of debris, candy wrappers, things of that nature. And I understand that it's really the responsibility of the person who purchases the goods from them not to be pigs, for lack of a better term, but the reality is that it is. Is there any way that we can shift some of the focus to the store owners to be responsible for the perimeter? Although it may not be on 142 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. their property, but it's clear that that debris is coming as a result of their store or for people purchasing service out of their store. Is there any way? Because this is really a problem. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: If you could share your information about locations where that's a problem, we can help address it. Any store that sells foods for takeout is required by law to have a trash can, I think it's, six to eight feet from their door.
Really? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: For that very purpose. People walk out, they can throw it.
Really? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. Any store that sells food for takeout.
I can't think of a single commercial corridor in my district where there -- and I know there may be some, but all of those 143 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. takeout stores, I don't know anywhere where they have that much. So they're required by law? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
So if I just give you the commercial corridors starting with those, you'll be able to go out and aggressively enforce it? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Absolutely. Yes.
All right. You'll have them. Okay. Thank you. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank 144 4/16/07 - WHOLE - BILL 070114, ETC. you.
This Committee will stand in recess until tomorrow, Tuesday, April 17th at 10:00 a.m. Thank you all very much. (Committee of the Whole adjourned at 12:55 p.m.) - - - 145 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on April 16, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)