civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 17, 2023

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 17, 20237h 55m

Mr. Gordon?

Similar wording

Leonard, do you have another witness we can call?

Similar wording

uh if there's a mr aaron jones

Similar wording

i don't unfortunately i was informed uh a little while ago that some of the witnesses

Similar wording

were not available it looks like maybe it looks like there is a mr jones now

Similar wording

no i was asking for i believe an aaron jones

Similar wording

we have a gary jones with his name gary not aaron okay okay okay mr jones could you state

Similar wording

your name and spell for the court reporter all right my name is gary jones senior spelled my

Similar wording

name g-a-r-y j-o-n-e-s right do you swear a firm do you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole

Similar wording

truth nothing but the truth yes sir proceed counsel uh thank you mr jones um are you familiar

Similar wording

with the property at 2352 north 29th street yes i am okay and where do you live i live exactly

Similar wording

175 feet away from that structure okay my house is directly 2912 west york street it's the first

Similar wording

house when you come down york street off of 29th okay uh and were you uh watching any of the hearing

Similar wording

with over the last few minutes yes sir okay and did you see some of the exhibits that uh were put

Similar wording

up on the screen yes sir okay are you familiar with the petition that was um passed around

Similar wording

well not the original one no but the one we signed recently yes okay and did you sign that

Similar wording

in uh opposing the variance for the property yes i did okay uh at the time you signed that

Similar wording

were you aware that the intention of the applicant is to uh make it an event space

Similar wording

on the first floor with the uh i believe existing residential units upstairs to remain

Similar wording

uh the original letter said nightclub but yes i was aware

Similar wording

okay um and are you excuse me mr chair um it was just brought to my attention that

Similar wording

that this witness testified at the prior hearing um and i we had originally had the wrong name for

Similar wording

him which is why we didn't notice it um sooner um but we had specifically requested both that

Similar wording

both parties that there were no repeat witnesses because there was extensive testimony last time

Similar wording

that's fine yes and i again i i had the name as a hold on for a second i didn't testify they

Similar wording

asked me a question and i answered it that that's testimony that's enough okay okay leonard if he

Similar wording

has anything different than what he already testified to if not let's move on okay um

Similar wording

the man opposes mr chair we know that it's part of the record i understand no i understand i

Similar wording

time to move on i understand thank you uh you know again i don't know if mr gordon

Similar wording

is could try to get back on hi mr george gordon

Similar wording

it looks like i don't see him participating anymore okay do you have anyone else uh yes

Similar wording

oh I'm sorry

Similar wording

there's a person with a hand raised

Similar wording

let's see who they are

Similar wording

hold on one second

Similar wording

let's say you chair

Similar wording

yes no there is another

Similar wording

individual who's on the witness list

Similar wording

we received from Miss Jones

Similar wording

and that was Regina Boggs

Similar wording

who I do see in the audience

Similar wording

she did not testify previously

Similar wording

and would be permitted to testify at this hearing

Similar wording

yes I'll call on Miss Boggs

Similar wording

Ms. Boss, can you unmute yourself?

Similar wording

Hello?

Similar wording

Hi.

Similar wording

Regina, could you state your name and spell for the court report?

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

This is not Regina.

Similar wording

This is George Gordon.

Similar wording

Okay, fine.

Similar wording

Oh, I see.

Similar wording

I had to run over to Regina because my phone started acting crazy.

Similar wording

Okay, Mr. Gordon, Mr. Gordon, state your name and spell, please, for the court report.

Similar wording

Okay, it's George Gordon.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

G-E-O-R-G-E-G-O-R-D-O-N.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Thank you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? The whole truth is nothing but the truth.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do. Proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Thank you. Mr. Gordon, first of all, where do you live?

Similar wording

I live at 2420 North 29th Street.

Similar wording

Okay. And approximately how far is that from the property at 2352 North 29th Street?

Similar wording

Exactly 240 feet.

Similar wording

Okay. And are you familiar with that intersection with the property in question?

Similar wording

Oh, absolutely. I used to work there years ago.

Similar wording

Okay. Now, were you able to see the earlier portion of the hearing where we were showing some documents on the screen?

Similar wording

I did.

Similar wording

Okay. So are you familiar with the petitions that were shown?

Similar wording

Yeah, a few of them, yes.

Similar wording

Okay. So I just want to ask you briefly about those. Was there a petition that was passed around prior to the last zoning board hearing?

Similar wording

Prior to it? I believe it was.

Similar wording

Okay. And after the zoning board hearing, when the neighbors reached out to the council president's office, was there a second petition?

Similar wording

we did uh i went around myself uh myself and my assistant and we uh got some petitions that

Similar wording

was opposed to the uh this facility okay um and when you prepared the petition uh and you went

Similar wording

around and uh asked people to sign it um were you aware of what the specific uh proposal was

Similar wording

for this property well at first it was supposed to be an event space that's what we had originally

Similar wording

heard and um but then um we we got the i thought the real uh answer to our question which it turns

Similar wording

out to be it's going to be a nightclub okay is it is it your understanding that uh

Similar wording

the location will be hosting events where people will be able to bring their own alcohol

Similar wording

yes uiob okay um and uh is is there a concern amongst you and your neighbors uh that um there

Similar wording

will be loitering outside of the property uh people smoking maybe be bringing drinks outside

Similar wording

well not only that but uh i mean they'll be smoking drinking urinating on the walls they

Similar wording

they chances are they'll have their motorcycles and cars blasting their their music out of the

Similar wording

cars and this happens in this type of venue okay now you're familiar with two existing businesses

Similar wording

about around that intersection yes on both corners and the same block but both corners

Similar wording

they're supposed to be convenience stores i think they uh i heard the way they get involved in this

Similar wording

they ask for licenses for grocery stores and then they get in and it's already a convenience store

Similar wording

after they get in there and they start selling paraphernalia drug paraphernalia now would it be

Similar wording

fair to say that um there's been a history of um nuisance activity at this at this intersection

Similar wording

absolutely okay go ahead well we've called we've had to call the cops several times look like every

Similar wording

summer especially you know we have to call the cops because there's a bunch of kids young people

Similar wording

young kids on these corners and they just i mean what can they be getting there they're piled up

Similar wording

on these corners and when you call the cops because of the fact that they're there the cops

Similar wording

chase them from there they come right up the street a couple doors down up the street and

Similar wording

they start sitting on people's steps you know and we've had these types of issues okay and is it is

Similar wording

Is it your belief, and again, just speaking for yourself, is it your belief that whether it's that an event space or a place that holds BYOB events or a nightclub at that same intersection, do you think that would add to that?

Similar wording

Do you think that would help the problems or do you think it would make them worse?

Similar wording

It would make them absolutely worse.

Similar wording

I mean, you're trying to live in a tranquil, peaceful environment.

Similar wording

It can't happen.

Similar wording

okay and and that's a matter of common sense to you right absolutely yes okay um did you

Similar wording

are you familiar and again if you're not just say you're not are you familiar with the petition

Similar wording

that was produced by the applicant involving...

Similar wording

that was produced by the applicant uh uh involving um people who were in favor of the proposal

Similar wording

i've never seen it i heard she's uh had one but i've never seen it no okay that's fine um

Similar wording

let me just see oh and are you familiar uh speaking of events was there a recent event

Similar wording

that took place um at this location or around this location at this intersection

Similar wording

um well there was a uh a murder uh at the other uh convenience store right up the block

Similar wording

same block but the other end where the young lady got shot in the head shot in the face

Similar wording

and um yeah so it's fair to say that the concerns uh of the neighborhood about these types of

Similar wording

activities is real yes very real right all right i don't have any further uh questions of mr gordon

Similar wording

uh if if ms boggs is there i would after mr anastasia a chance to sure thanks just briefly

Similar wording

thanks thanks mr gordon for the testimony i don't have a whole lot to to ask you under cross

Similar wording

I just want to make sure that we're clear.

Similar wording

You were aware of the March hearing, is that right?

Similar wording

And you were given notice and opportunity to testify?

Similar wording

I was not given an opportunity to testify.

Similar wording

Did you know about the hearing?

Similar wording

I did.

Similar wording

Okay, and the property was posted, so you knew that the hearing was in March, is that right?

Similar wording

That's correct, yes.

Similar wording

Okay, and you had the opportunity to attend the hearing, is that right?

Similar wording

I did. Yes. Did you attend the hearing? No, I didn't. Okay. But you had the opportunity to,

Similar wording

right? Yes. Okay. Very well. So you, you also sat on your rights. And you say, I did not settle

Similar wording

my rights, sir. Well, you didn't. No, I didn't. Were you out of the country? Were you out of the

Similar wording

country? Want me to ask the question? Yes. Want me to ask the question? What happened was I did not

Similar wording

I had problems just like I had today with my phone trying to stay online, and I just couldn't do it because I'm not that savvy as far as these things are concerned.

Similar wording

Well, I could understand that.

Similar wording

So that's why I had to run up the street here and get with Ms. Barr so she could help me get back on and talk to you people.

Similar wording

But you didn't ask for a continuance because you couldn't get on.

Similar wording

Is that right?

Similar wording

you didn't ask you didn't ask for the case to be continued uh so that you could in fact

Similar wording

i didn't i didn't ask i didn't ask you're at that meeting for any kind of continuance no

Similar wording

you didn't ask mr clark to request a continuance on your behalf as your council person i signed

Similar wording

the document i signed the document being in favor of a continuance okay and but you did say that

Similar wording

when you were presented with the case

Similar wording

that it was an event space

Similar wording

that you were okay with

Similar wording

that use, is that right? No, I never said I

Similar wording

was okay with that, no. I wasn't okay with that

Similar wording

even, no. But you weren't opposed to it, is that

Similar wording

right? As event space.

Similar wording

Well, I just think as an event space,

Similar wording

as a club, it's not in the right, this

Similar wording

is not the right area. Two different things,

Similar wording

yeah, but. Well, it might be two different things, but

Similar wording

I'm thinking the same way about

Similar wording

both things. Understood.

Similar wording

But you are aware that the zoning board approved for event space only with strict restrictions.

Similar wording

You are aware of that, right?

Similar wording

That no public nightclub could happen here.

Similar wording

Are you aware of that?

Similar wording

Well, let me just say it like this.

Similar wording

I believe that once a person has a thing in its possession and is free and clear, they can take it and change it any way they want.

Similar wording

if nobody's watching

Similar wording

who should say that

Similar wording

it's what they said

Similar wording

it was going to be

Similar wording

so that's the way I look at that

Similar wording

so you were speculating that

Similar wording

somebody might take the approved use

Similar wording

and take it beyond that, is that right?

Similar wording

well who's monitoring?

Similar wording

okay

Similar wording

well we do have a department of license and inspection

Similar wording

but yep, I get it

Similar wording

thank you

Similar wording

I've got nothing else here

Similar wording

Thank you. Okay. And if, if I could just, well, it looks like he got off.

Similar wording

Is Ms. Boggs there? Mr. Gordon was just speaking on her connection.

Similar wording

Went down to our house to get the phone.

Similar wording

Yes, I'm here. This is Ms. Boggs.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Could you, wait a minute. Could you state your name, please? And spell for the court reporter?

Similar wording

Could you state your name, please, and spell for the Corbin Quarter?

Similar wording

Regina.

Similar wording

Regina Boggs, R-E-G-I-N-A, B-O-G-G-S.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Proceed, counsel.

Similar wording

Leonard, you're muted.

Similar wording

You're muted.

Similar wording

Sorry about that.

Similar wording

Ms. Boggs, if you could just tell the board where you live.

Similar wording

Yes, I live 2410 North 29th Street. I live approximately 154 feet from that building, from that property.

Similar wording

Okay. And are you familiar with some of the conditions around the property currently?

Similar wording

Yes, I am.

Similar wording

Okay. And could you just describe those for the board?

Similar wording

um it's a fence around the property um the fire hydrant is inside of the fence now if there was

Similar wording

to be a fire and the fire department needed to get to the fire hydrant there's no way they can

Similar wording

get sore sure now it's covering the walkway to where you have to walk in the street um that

Similar wording

whole side of the pavement there's no payment there for you to walk on okay so yes go ahead

Similar wording

i'm sorry oh no no that's okay um so uh with respect to those the conditions of the site um

Similar wording

were there contacts are you aware of contacts that were made uh with um uh either the construction

Similar wording

company or the owner of the property about uh cleaning the place up and fixing those those

Similar wording