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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 4, 2008

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 4, 2008

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COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BUDGET - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, March 4, 2008 10:20 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN BILL GREEN COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILWOMAN MARIA QUINONES-SANCHEZ COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILL 080154 - An ordinance to adopt a Capital Program for the six Fiscal Years 2009-2014 inclusive BILL 080155 - An ordinance to adopt a Fiscal 2009 Capital Budget - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2

Council President Verna

Good morning, everyone. This is a continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole and today we will be considering Bill Nos. 080154 and 080155. Do we have someone from the Administration that's going to testify? (Witnesses approached witness table.)

Council President Verna

Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Jastrzab

Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Gary Jastrzab. I am the Acting Executive Director of the City Planning Commission. I'm here today to present for your review and consideration the Fiscal Year 2009 through 2014 Capital Program and the Fiscal Year 2009 Capital Budget, as recommended by the City Planning Commission at its meeting of February 8, 3 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. 2008. The Philadelphia Home Rule Charter stipulates that the City Planning Commission prepare and submit to the Mayor a Recommended Capital Program and Budget. As you know, the Recommended Capital Program is a proposed six-year plan for investing in the City's physical infrastructure, community facilities and public buildings. Each year, the City Planning Commission staff works closely with the Capital Program Office, the Office of Budget and Program Evaluation, the Managing Director's Office and City operating departments to prepare a Recommended Capital Program and Budget. This year, our work was informed by a facilities assessment prepared in collaboration with the Pennsylvania Intergovernmental Cooperation Authority, PICA, for Police, Fire, Health, Prisons and the interior of City Hall. As in years past, the 4 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. availability of new, tax-supported general obligation bond funding for capital projects is constrained due to the City debt limit established by the Pennsylvania Constitution, as well as the City's capacity to service the debt on these borrowed funds. Nevertheless, we are committed to investing in the City's infrastructure to the greatest extent possible and are in fact recommending more City funds for Fiscal Year 2009 than we have since Fiscal Year 2002. billion in funds, from a variety of sources, to advance these efforts by addressing critically needed public improvements. billion. This includes 80 new projects for Fiscal 2009, as well as many ongoing projects that we are recommending be 5 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. carried forward from previous years. It is important to note that this year's carry-forward process is different from that of the recent past. Previously, the Recommended Capital Program and Budget included only new appropriations. All unobligated funding from prior-year appropriations was then carried forward via a separate amendment later in the spring. The Recommended 2009 to 2014 Capital Program and Budget incorporates both new funds as well as funds carried forward from Fiscal Year 2008. All unobligated funds as of December 31, 2007, including general obligation bond, PICA, grant, private, other government and revenue bond capital appropriations, are carried forward from prior years with few exceptions. These exceptions fall into three categories. One, unspent appropriations of less than a thousand dollars for projects that have been completed; second, Water Department 6 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. payroll costs; and, finally, federal, state and private grants which did not materialize. Also not carried forward are revolving funds, which rely on new appropriations only and do not carry forward as a matter of policy. Portions of other funding sources such as 9-1-1 operating revenue and Health Department operating revenue do not carry forward if the revenue to support appropriations is insufficient. 8 million will be provided by new general obligation bonds issued by the City of Philadelphia. On the pie chart shown on the screen, that amount is shown at 12 o'clock, and we will proceed clockwise. Twenty-nine point seven million dollars comes from previously authorized capital funds, money already authorized in prior years, but available for 7 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. reprogramming. The majority of this funding, which is designated as CA in the funding schedule, is available due to prior-year projects being completed under budgeted amounts. 3 million of funding is available from PICA.

Mr. Jastrzab

As you can see on the bar chart projected on the screen, the three sources I just mentioned comprise the largest level of City support for the Capital Budget since Fiscal Year 2002 and more than double the amount of City support in Fiscal 2008. 3 million, and those are designated as CT funds in the project schedule. 3 billion of total budget-year funds. Funding from the federal government, the 8 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. 1 million in the budget year. 9 million. Finally, $121 million of Fiscal 2009 funding will be provided by private sources, and an appropriation of $26 million from revolving funds is recommended for the PIDC land bank. Projects included in the Recommended Capital Program advance our efforts to ensure public safety, promote jobs and economic development, support healthy and sustainable neighborhoods, improve customer services, and enable high-performing government. In all instances, we are recommending the use of limited Capital funding in ways that help the City address critical life-safety 9 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. needs, provide the facilities needed to support the delivery of essential public services, and leverage federal, state and private resources wherever possible. I would like to focus on a few specifics of the Recommended Capital Budget. Projects that ensure public safety benefit all Philadelphians. 5 million for improvements to the Police Tactical Facility and Warehouse; and $5 million for improvements to Police facilities. Additionally, $2 million of operating revenues will support computer and communication systems improvements; and $400,000 of new general obligation bond funding will support facility renovations. 10 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. The Fiscal 2008 budget recommends $5 million of PICA funding and an additional 800,000 of new GO funding for renovations and improvements to Fire Department facilities. In addition, $2 million of operating revenue will support computer and communication system improvements. The Philadelphia Prison System census has continued to rise from an average of 8,796 in Fiscal Year 2007 to around 9,100 in early 2008. 1 million for facility and communication systems improvements in Fiscal 2009. 5 million of PICA funding will support the design and construction of a dedicated 224-bed certified juvenile facility on the Prison System campus. 4 million of Act 71 funds from the Department of Human Services' new Youth Study Center to 11 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. the Prison System certified juvenile facility. 4 million due to construction escalation and an increase in the contingency for the project to deal with unforeseen conditions. 4 million of Act 71 funds being recommended for reprogramming, along with funds carried forward from prior years, will fully fund the certified juvenile facility. 5 million of bonds, which allowed us under Act 148, the Child Welfare Act, to obtain 50 percent reimbursement from the state for lease payments for this facility. Projects that promote jobs and economic development serve to retain and attract businesses, provide jobs for 12 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. residents, and support improvements at the City's airports, as well as commercial, industrial, port-related and hospitality industry development. 2 million for Schuylkill and Delaware riverfront improvements; $600,000 for the Philadelphia Museum of Art; and $500,000 for the Philadelphia Zoo. Projects that support healthy and sustainable neighborhoods include street reconstruction and resurfacing, improvements to transportation facilities and replacements of water and sewer mains. 6 million is designated for street resurfacing, almost three times the amount budgeted last year. Other City-supported neighborhood infrastructure investments include nearly 13 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Jastrzab

7 million for the SEPTA Market Elevated reconstruction project and $2 million for GreenPlan Philadelphia initiatives, the City's blueprint for sustainable open space. Projects that improve customer services include those to renovate and renew facilities that primarily serve City residents, such as recreation facilities, libraries, neighborhood parks, health centers and City Hall. million is recommended for Recreation Department facilities. million of new GO funding is recommended for improvements to branch libraries, and $9 million of PICA funding will be sought to support upgrades to the Central Library. 4 14 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. million of GO funding for exterior and life-safety improvements. Projects that enable high-performing government include initiatives to enhance energy efficiency and ensure continuity of service. Funding of $1 million is recommended for energy-efficiency projects in Fiscal 2009, and funding of $250,000 is allocated for design of the third phase of the City's emergency generator project to ensure uninterrupted power in the event of an emergency. I hope that these examples of capital projects demonstrate the variety of projects recommended for funding in the budget year and how the Recommended 2009 to 2014 Capital Program seeks to make strategic, targeted investments in Philadelphia's infrastructure and uses our limited resources for the greatest public benefit. I would like to note that the Administration is proposing three 15 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. amendments to the Recommended Program and Budget. An amendment is being introduced today to restore $850,000 of carry-forward, or CT appropriation authority, for the Commerce Department's Food Distribution Center improvements FY02. This project will become Line 25H in the amendment, which was incorrectly coded as CA funding under the Commerce Navy Yard Infrastructure Improvements project. A second amendment is being introduced today to change the general provisions of the Fiscal 2009 Capital Budget to reflect provisions that were passed by Council as part of last year's Capital Budget. I'd ask the Committee to approve these amendments. And then, finally we'll be introducing a third amendment later in the budget process to change the funding source of four projects, which are currently designated in the CT category, the carried-forward category, totalling 16 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. 1 million. The amendment will change the funding source of those four projects to CA to accurately reflect those funding sources. Thank you for your attention, and I would be happy to address any questions that you may have. Please note that the leadership of City departments is present, in addition to representatives from the Capital Program Office and the Office of Budget and Program Evaluation to assist in answering your questions. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I think we ought to hear from Mr. Tustin and then we can ask both of you at the same time questions that many of us, I'm sure, have. (Witness approached witness table.)

Council President Verna

Good morning. 17 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Tustin

Good morning. Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Richard Tustin. I am the. Acting Director for the City's Capital Program Office. The mission of the Capital Program Office is to support the City's infrastructure investment through successful management of the Capital Budget and to oversee the design and construction of new and renovated City facilities. The Capital Program includes projects that promotes the Mayor's initiatives, ensuring public safety, promoting economic development, positively impacting the City's neighborhoods, promoting constituent services, and promoting high-performance government. Our proposed FY09 Operating Budget includes $2,533,997 in Class 100 funds to support 39 positions. This is a 58 percent increase due to 15 18 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. capital-funded positions that are now being transferred over to the Operating Budget. Three hundred twenty-three thousand four hundred fifty-five dollars in Class 200 funds for architectural and engineering services. Space planning services to support the City's leasing and real estate consolidation efforts, staff training and computer software are also funded from this class. Five hundred and seventy-two thousand dollars in Class 800 for payments to support CPO requirements contracts for the repair and maintenance of City buildings and infrastructures, and, lastly, $89,184 for materials, supplies and equipment upgrades. Our Capital Budget request includes $4,540,000 in funds to support 43 positions. This reflects a reduction of $881,000, or 16 percent, due to the 15 positions which, as I previously said, are being transferred over to the 19 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. Operating Budget. S. Environmental Protection Agency and City regulations during demolition and reconstruction work. This reflects a 50 percent increase in what we've asked for in previous years. Four hundred thousand dollars for ongoing general environmental remediation projects required by the state for underground tanks. This also represents actually a 100 percent increase from the FY08, and the reason for that is that every four years, we're required by state law to go through an inspection of the underground tanks. And so it's a four-year cycle that that number usually jumps that year. Through careful attention to life-safety and quality-of-life issues such as heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems, electrical systems, 20 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. roofs and exterior enclosures for the City's Police and Fire stations, as well as other municipal buildings, CPO works to promote the Administration's public safety goals. Additionally, CPO is also working to meet the Administration's objectives for education and sustainable communities through such planned projects as the green roof for the Central Library, scheduled to be completed this summer. This will also serve to enhance sustainability and be an attractive educational community resource. More green projects are being explored for development in FY09. CPO continues to actively bring about LEEDs, which stands for Leadership in Environmental and Energy Design, certifiable projects such as the Police Forensics Lab. And if you could go to the second slide, Trevor, we'll go back to that slide, which is the Police Forensic Lab, which would be the second -- the 21 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. next one. Sorry. This project was completed several years ago. Unfortunately, I guess with the lighting, it's not very clear, but the Police Forensic Lab, the Widener Branch Library, Walnut West Library and the future Youth Study Center, all of these projects have been designed to be LEED certifiable, which means we reuse -- we use recyclables materials. We make use of natural day lighting. We coordinate the energy use with natural day lighting, and we try to do everything possible to reduce energy consumption.

Mr. Tustin

In an effort to promote jobs and economic development, CPO is committed to providing meaningful contract opportunities for minority, women and disabled businesses and to promote a diverse on-site workforce in the public works contracts. Moreover, CPO aggressively seeks to include significant minority, women and disabled 22 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. business participation in all of our professional service contracts and public works contracts. The following participation ranges have been met in FY07 and through the first half of 2008. 9 million, went to minority and women-owned firms. 1 million have gone to minority or women-owned firms. In public works, which is the work that gets contracted out to contractors, in FY07, 53 of those contracts, totally 13 percent of the total public works dollar values that year, went to minority or women-owned firms. And FY08, again, we're only halfway through the year, but 34 contracts, or over $17 million, have gone 23 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. to minority and women-owned firms. CPO monitors this effort by tracking all payments by consultants and contractors to their MBEC subconsultants and subcontractors. Each submitted invoice has a section that identifies how much of each payment is being paid to MBEC firms, and the CPO monitors these payments against the stated goals. One thing that we're somewhat proud of is the fact that not only do we put the goals in, but every time a contractor submits an invoice, we've modified the invoice so that we know how much of that invoice is actually being paid to those vendors. So it's not a guess. We know for sure those vendors are getting paid the money they're supposed to get paid. Currently, we track our performance in completing our mission by comparing the time and cost it takes to complete projects to the projected cost and schedule identified each year in the 24 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. Capital Budget and Program. We also ask our client departments to rate their satisfaction with CPO's coordination and management during the design and construction process, the performance of the design consultants and contractors and the overall quality of the end product. Finally, client departments are asked about their general level of satisfaction with the services that CPO provides. Moving forward, CPO will continue to provide its client departments with the highest level of customer service. This will be realized through more frequent reporting and communications regarding project status, the expeditious processing of contracts and invoices, and investing in training and continuing education of our professional staff. With that in mind, CPO also realizes that City Council has had some concerns regarding certain projects that 25 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. are being completed -- not being completed in a timely manner. In the coming months, we will be identifying additional key performance indicators and customer service parameters in consultation with the new Administration that will help in expediting all capital projects. I'd like to take a minute and explain what this slide is. This is something new. We are working very hard to try to find ways of not only tracking our performance, but increasing our level of getting projects done faster and cheaper. All basic projects are broken down into four categories. They're shown on this slide in the arrows as administrative, design, bid award and construction. During the administration process -- sometimes we call that pre-design -- that's where we meet with Council. We meet with the departments. We meet with community groups trying to 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. find out exactly the scope of work that wants to be done. We also try to obtain all funding approvals at that point and any grants that may be available for those projects. And, lastly, if need be, we issue our request for proposal for design services.

Mr. Tustin

As you will see at the top, department by client agencies, we don't have a time frame on that because sometimes, quite frankly, we don't know how long it will take to go through the process of getting community group approval as well as funding approval and other issues as well. But once that is identified, we move into the next phase of the work, which is design. This is really where the change comes in from how we've done business in the past. The CPO is making a commitment at this point in time that at the point where we started design, we will analyze that project, and based on the dollar value of that project, the complication of the project, 27 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. the resources we have at hand, we will be sending to our client departments and City Council a written schedule for that project that will show you exactly what we anticipate the design and time frame to be. And it will vary depending on the size of the project. We believe that projects under $500,000, we should be able to complete a design in two to four months. Again, based on those issues shown. Projects that are a half a million to a million and a half dollars we realize will take longer, and projects over a million and a half dollars, again, we estimate that our time frame for design can vary from eight to 12 months depending on, again, how complicated the project is, what type of facility it is and so on. From that, we'll move to the bid award process, which is normally a three- to four-month process. That process involves many City departments, 28 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. including Procurement, MBEC, Finance, the Controller's Office, Law and the contractor himself. That is a three- to four-month process that we don't control, but we can try to expedite, where possible, and we will continue to do that. The last phase after the bid award process is the construction process, and, again, that also is affected by certain factors, including how many contractors we have to deal with on the project. It can be anywhere from one small contractor to four or six contractors depending on the size of the job. Contractor's performance, whether we have a high-performance contractor or contractors that don't perform very well and we need to nudge them along quite often to try to keep things rolling. Weather conditions, regulatory approvals. Sometimes we deal -- the larger projects deal with PennDOT or other state agencies, and when we deal with state 29 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. agencies when we get into construction, they also have to approve the process and the invoices as we go from one phase of construction to the next. 5; and 14 to 24 months for 13 the large projects, over a million and a 14 half and up. We're making this commitment to try to do this to try to keep people informed. We're going to provide updates on a monthly basis on our progress and our performance, and we hope this will help going forward in our ability to do a better job for the City, City Council and our operating departments. Going back to my testimony, we hold ourselves in the highest ethic standards in order for the actions of CPO 30 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. to be open and transparent as possible. CPO values integrity in all of our transactions, interactions and professional relationships and will continue to uphold its high standards. I would like to thank City Council for your support over the past several years and request your continued support and approval for this year's budget request. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have at this time. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. I know it's been referred to quite a bit in testimony about the CA and CT funding. Can someone explain for the record the difference between the two? (Witness approached witness table.)

Ms. Ginnetti

My name is Tina Ginnetti. I'm Deputy Budget Director.

Council President Verna

Good 31 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. morning.

Ms. Ginnetti

Both the CA funds and the CT funds are general obligation funds. The CT funds are appropriated in the budget year and if not obligated are carried forward to the next fiscal year's budget. The CA previously authorized loan funds are primarily generated from projects being completed under budget. Upon completion of a project, any encumbered funding that remains in a purchase order is liquidated and returned to the loan balance under the specific purpose category for which it was borrowed and becomes CA. In some cases, when budget lines are very specific and projects are completed under budget, the remaining balance is returned to the loan balance and becomes CA funding. Also, when the carry-forward is calculated, any budget line with a balance of less than $1,000 is lapsed. 32 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. Lastly, bond issuance costs are estimated at the time of the loan authorization. If the issuance costs are less than anticipated, any excess is distributed across purpose categories using a weighted average approach.

Council President Verna

Thank you. If I understand correctly, the difference is that a CA fund are those remaining from completed projects; is that correct?

Mr. Jastrzab

Yes. That's correct.

Council President Verna

And the proposed 2009 Capital Budget contains $36,783,000 of CA-funded projects. I believe that our office had asked for a detailed breakdown as to what projects generated these surpluses. Do you happen to have a copy of the breakdown? And if you don't, when do you think we can receive it? 33 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. (Witness approached witness table.)

Mr. Agostini

Madam President, Steve Agostini, Budget Director.

Council President Verna

Good morning.

Mr. Agostini

We are still in the process of putting that request together. What I'm learning is that the process of going back over some years requires a manual review of the actual projects, the expenditures and what is left. We will complete that. If we can't get that to you by tomorrow, we will give you an update of where we are by tomorrow so that you have a progress report at a minimum from us.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Can you tell us what limitations, if any, are there on how these CA funds can be spent?

Ms. Ginnetti

Hi. Tina Ginnetti again. 34 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. The CA funds have to be reappropriated to the purpose categories for which they were originally borrowed. For instance, if a completed project was in the economic and community development purpose category, when those funds are reappropriated, it would have to go back to the same purpose category.

Council President Verna

Well, let me ask, if City Council wanted to alter the use of these funds, all we would need to do is to amend the proposed budget at a later time and pass an ordinance changing the purpose of the use of the funds; is that not so?

Ms. Ginnetti

The purpose categories could be amended, but I believe it would require an amendment to the original loan authorization ordinance. But, yes, the answer to your question is yes, they could be reappropriated for another purpose.

Council President Verna

Okay. Can you tell us, how do you determine the 35 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. allocation of these funds?

Ms. Ginnetti

Well, we consider the original purposes for which they were borrowed, and the same way that we determined how the rest of the funding in the Capital Budget would be appropriated, departments --

Council President Verna

Why don't you give us an example.

Ms. Ginnetti

For instance, in the Fairmount Park division, there was a significant balance that was left over in the recreation, parks and museum purpose category, so we appropriated much of that funding to the Fairmount Park to use for their projects.

Council President Verna

But couldn't that have also gone to Recreation?

Council President Verna

Has the Planning Commission done an assessment of the City's facilities and infrastructure, and, if so, what are the 36 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. present and future requirements?

Mr. Jastrzab

We have not done a comprehensive assessment of all City facilities, but a couple of years ago the Capital Program Office did an assessment of Recreation Department facilities and most recently PICA funded an assessment of Police, Fire, Libraries, Prison System and the interior of City Hall and assessed the needs of those departments, facilities in those departments, and came up with a total amount required to bring those facilities up to a common-level standard, meeting code requirements.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. Tustin, I believe you testified on the LEEDs project. In your experience, does the LEED-certified project cost a lot more money?

Mr. Tustin

Richard Tustin. Yes, Council President, it does cost more money. Not necessarily for how the building is constructed, but right 37 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. now there are requirements for commissioning of buildings in order to meet the LEED's requirements. What we've done in the past when I had showed the slides for the Forensic Lab and the Widener Branch Library, the reason I said they were LEEDs certifiable was because we designed them to meet the LEED certification process, but we didn't actually go through and get the certificate basically saying it is LEEDs certified, because that is the -- that's usually what costs the additional money. So we wanted to design it to that level, but not necessarily have to go through the additional cost of getting the official certificate saying it's LEED certifiable. One thing I am happy to say is that just within the past two weeks, a member of my staff has gone for the courses, taken the exam, and now she is an accredited LEEDs professional. So she will have the capability in-house, and 38 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. we'll be able to use her for other departments as well that do capital projects if they want reviews for LEED-certifiable projects.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. I see that there are a number of Councilmembers that would like to be recognized, so I am not going to dominate the questioning. At this time -- and, again, I would remind my colleagues that the first go-around will be five minutes. The Chair at this time recognizes Councilman Greenlee.

Councilman Greenlee

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, everyone. (Good morning.)

Councilman Greenlee

First, just a question, Mr. Jastrzab, in your testimony, you mention the $5 million for improvements to Police facilities. Would that mostly be all the districts 39 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. themselves? Is that what we're talking about here?

Mr. Jastrzab

Yes. That's what's intended, that neighborhood facilities for the Police Department would be treated, as well as other Police facilities as well.

Councilman Greenlee

Because I know obviously we got a lot of complaints about the condition of a lot of those, both for the police officers themselves and the public. Is it broken down at all, like how much is going to be spent yet on each district? Are we at that point yet?

Mr. Jastrzab

No, it's not broken down that specifically. There are facilities that are identified. I don't have that information with me, but we can certainly provide that to you.

Councilman Greenlee

If you could, that would be great. Thank you. Also, when you mention in supporting healthy and sustainable 40 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. neighborhoods, you mention both resurfacing and water and sewer. As far as resurfacing, is that done mostly along a schedule of how long it's been that the street was done previously? Is it done more on complaints? Is it a combination? I don't know if you guys know.

Mr. Jastrzab

The Streets Department has a system by which they assign points to the condition of various streets and will try to treat streets based on severity of need, but they also will try to get economies of scale in their resurfacing. So if there's a street nearby that may not be quite as critical but they can accomplish the resurfacing, they will attempt to do that.

Councilman Greenlee

Because I know we get and probably the District Councilpeople get more complaints about it than we do, is that they've done certain streets, but why don't they do mine, that kind of thing. So that's why 41 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. we were just trying to figure out the schedule. And the same thing on the water and sewer, and I know that often times, particularly sewer work, is more extensive and more costly, but is that kind of the same thing, to the best of your knowledge?

Mr. Jastrzab

Yes. The Water Department also has a schedule for those kind of improvements.

Councilman Greenlee

All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, Mr. Tustin, as a professional who dealt with minority participation under the MBEC guidelines of 17-500, I applaud what you presented 42 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. today. It is an example that many departments who contract out both capital projects and also professional services might take a look at and replicate. It is outstanding. But I won't use all of my five minutes lauding you. I have some substantive questions here. Under the Environmental Remediation on , we have a carry-over of $544,000, and I heard the Madam President mention that some of these things could be reprogrammed. Would projects such as the Centennial Lake out in the park, which is one of the first man-made lakes in the nation, done over a hundred years ago, which now sits in disrepair, could that project be a type of project that these funds could be used for?

Mr. Tustin

Councilman, normally the funds for what we'll call environmental remediation projects, we usually handle only two types of projects. One is asbestos/lead paint 43 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. type of removal that is associated with a building project. So if we go into City Hall to renovate a space and we uncover asbestos, either in the form of piping, floor tile, ceiling tile, or lead paint, we have a contractor ready to go in under a requirements contract and abate that work so that the normal contractor or the regular contractor can go back and complete the renovation project. So that's usually what falls under the asbestos abatement. Under the other, what we call -- the other environmental remediation pertains more to fuel tanks, both gasoline and oil, for heating tanks. Those are what we usually focus on. We're required by the state to inspect them on a regular basis and improve those. Sometimes it involves the soil around the tank. If we get a leaking tank, not only do we have to remove the tank, but we also have to remove all the soil that has been contaminated by that 44 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. leak and then take care of that as well.

Councilman Jones

And I appreciate what tradition has called for in those use of funds, but maybe you heard the Mayor said it's a new day, and so, therefore, can they be used is the question.

Mr. Tustin

Councilman, I'm not sure, but I'll look into it and I'll get back to you as quickly as possible.

Councilman Jones

Would you? Okay. Another thing, can I get a copy of your chart there --

Mr. Tustin

Absolutely.

Councilman Jones

-- that was not included? My other question is on 44, Item 24, under Land Bank and Acquisition and Improvements. Can you explain to me what particular projects we are land banking, what are we doing with that? If not, I don't want that to go 45 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. against my time. Are you looking for answers?

Mr. Jastrzab

I think we can get that information for you. (Witness approached witness table.)

Mr. Deegan

Paul Deegan, PIDC. We don't have any specific projects lined up for this year. We're looking at some properties to acquire and improve.

Councilman Jones

Well, we might have some in the 4th Councilmanic District you might want to take a look at since we do have that available. In particular, we're looking at areas in the Hunting Park area and Parkside area and other areas that substantial development is going on. We're supposed to take a tour up there, I would imagine.

Mr. Deegan

We're looking forward to it. That's exactly the kind of thing we would use the land bank for, is to look for new property to acquire 46 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. and do demolition, remediation and then market for new industrial or commercial development. So that's exactly the kind of thing we did. And we did West Parkside Industrial Park with land bank money.

Councilman Jones

Okay. On , Line Item 33A through 33F, there's a total of, I think it's, 5.3 million carried forward under Parks Improvement. Could that be used for the Centennial Lake?

Mr. Jastrzab

I'm sorry. Could you repeat those line numbers again?

Councilman Jones

Those line items were 33A through 33F.

Mr. Jastrzab

Those projects are for general parkland site improvements. It's possible that that Centennial Lake would certainly qualify as that.

Councilman Jones

Then I have no further questions. Thank you. 47 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. (Bell rung.)

Council President Verna

Are you waiting for an answer?

Councilman Jones

No. 6

Mr. Jastrzab

No. I completed the answer.

Councilman Jones

He answered. He said yes. It was brief, but to the point.

Mr. Jastrzab

Yes, it would qualify as a parkland site improvement.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. The assessment study done by PICA, do we have copies of that? Is that available to the Council?

Mr. Jastrzab

I believe that you do or you should. We can certainly provide that study to you.

Councilwoman Tasco

They only 48 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. did the Police facilities. They did not do Recreation Department's -- they didn't do recreation centers?

Mr. Jastrzab

Recreation -- Rick, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Mr. Tustin

Correct. What they did was Fire, Police, Prison, Health and City Hall. They did not do any recreation facilities, but we do right now have a contract out to complete the assessment of all the C and D recreation facilities citywide. If you remember, several years ago we only focused on the A and B facilities, because that's all the funding we had available. We are now in the process of starting an assessment of the balance of the recreation facilities. That would be the C facilities and the D facilities.

Councilwoman Tasco

Of the $36 million of the pre-finance carry-forward, the funds remaining from completed projects, is any of that money from the $150 million that was borrowed for the -- 49 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Jastrzab

Cultural?

Councilwoman Tasco

Cultural fund?

Mr. Jastrzab

No. That was a separate bond issue. The CA funds that are shown here, the $36.8 million are from previously borrowed general obligation bonds.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, in your testimony, you talk about the Art Museum and the Zoo.

Councilwoman Tasco

Now, is that new money or is that --

Mr. Jastrzab

It's new money in addition to the money that those institutions received from the $150 million bond issue.

Councilwoman Tasco

So the $150 million bond issue would not be in this Capital Budget at any point?

Mr. Jastrzab

Correct.

Council President Verna

Excuse me, Councilwoman. 50 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. With the $36 million, that could be for projects that were completed maybe ten, years ago. Am I wrong in 5 thinking that? 6

Ms. Ginnetti

That's correct. 7

Mr. Tustin

Correct. 8

Councilwoman Tasco

Does that 9 money sit in the bank and earn interest? 10

Council President Verna

So we 11 just let it sit there. 12

Councilwoman Tasco

Does it earn interest?

Council President Verna

It does, I'm sure.

Councilwoman Tasco

Where does the interest go?

Council President Verna

It goes to the General Fund.

Mr. Agostini

Madam President, Councilmember, I understand you have some very precise and I think very good questions with respect to the CA and how this is being handled. What I would offer to you is that I need to be a 51 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. little bit more on top of this, and what I would like to do -- and I apologize for not being as on top of it as I should be in order to answer your question. What I would like to offer to you and the rest of the members is that I take some time to go through this and sit with your staff to explain this to you better than we are doing now, because I believe the questions you're asking are right on point and we need to have more precise, sharp answers for this and we're not right now.

Council President Verna

That's understandable, because you really didn't have too much time to prepare the budget, and so we're really very patient.

Mr. Agostini

I appreciate that.

Council President Verna

But we do want some answers.

Mr. Agostini

And we will get them to you.

Council President Verna

Thank 52 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. you.

Councilwoman Tasco

The $5 million that you have for the Police facilities, is this the same dollars that were put in the budget last year by the last Administration?

Councilwoman Tasco

It's a carry-over?

Mr. Jastrzab

It's carry-forward.

Councilwoman Tasco

Let me just ask you real quickly, in the Health Department you have $1.2 million. How much do you see this buying in terms of the ten centers that we have? Is that something that the Department requested or is that something that the Capital Funds Office decided should be put in the budget?

Mr. Tustin

That was requested by the departments. When we sit down with them each year and we go through their needs for that upcoming year, they 53 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. put together a list of budget requests, which we then package and send over to City Planning for their consideration.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is there someone here from the Health Department who could explain the $1.2 million and how they plan to spend it? (Witness approached witness table.)

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record.

Dr. Schwarz

Good morning. Donald Schwarz. I am the Deputy Mayor for Health and Opportunity and the Health Commissioner. It would be helpful to me if you could repeat the question just so I'm sure I understand.

Councilwoman Tasco

In the testimony from the Capital Programs Office -- I mean City Planning, they talk about $1.5 million for the health centers, for the Health Department. I got to see where it is now. I wanted to 54 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. have some sense of how you plan to spend that money.

Dr. Schwarz

Yes. The majority of the funding will go to renovations for the health centers. Capital expenditures have been delayed over time for needed repairs. We have, over the course of the last year, created plans for those repairs, and this is investment to make those repairs. In addition, there are repairs required for PACA, for the animal care facility. The bulk of the repairs will be in the health centers. A small portion of it will go to PACA. (Bell rung.)

Councilwoman Tasco

Is $1.2 million a current cost? Do you think you need more money for that?

Dr. Schwarz

These are the most critical repairs. So they were prioritized. We are in the process of going through a more comprehensive review of all of the health centers to look at 55 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. what it's going to require for those facilities and other Health Department facilities to upgrade them completely, but this was the most immediate set of needs. Roofing. The largest part of the expense actually is related to the HVAC system, so air conditioning and ventilation -- heating, air conditioning and ventilation.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, your time is up.

Councilwoman Tasco

You took some of my time, you know.

Council President Verna

I did how? We added time. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Councilwoman Tasco

But could I just -- because he's here --

Council President Verna

No. 22 Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

Thank you for being here today. I have some general questions and then some specific 56 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. questions about the departments I probably won't get to in this first round. I guess in Fiscal Year 2000 the City Planning Commission recommended $185 million a year be spent on the City's core infrastructure. I think when the Mayor appointed Rob Dubow on the northeast corner of City Hall, he probably spent about half the time talking about the need for the City to invest in its infrastructure, and I'm wondering, that $185 million that you recommended a year, how does that compare -- what was that for? Was that to get the City up to code, which is what PICA did, or was that a broader goal than that?

Mr. Jastrzab

It was a broader goal. Based on the number of facilities that we have within the City and our existing physical infrastructure, that was our estimate of the amount of money that the City should be spending on its 57 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. capital plant each year.

Councilman Green

Do you know what the consequences of not spending that money on a yearly basis for maintenance is? In other words, deferring maintenance over a long period of time, how much does that cost in the long run as compared to spending the money on an annual basis?

Mr. Jastrzab

We didn't --

Councilman Green

If you took a present value, would it make more sense to spend the money on a yearly basis or does deferring maintenance actually in the long run increase cash flow or decrease cash flow? I guess that's my question.

Mr. Agostini

Madam President, Councilmember, I think it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of those investments. I think your premise is a good one in that if we are not keeping up, the sort of potential for maintenance costs downstream could be 58 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. larger than what you're saving. I think we'd have to go and look at that carefully and sort of do the trade-offs as to do you make the investment sort of in a present-value sense, do you defer the maintenance, what are the costs associated with that if you have to repair it five or ten years later. But I think it's a good question. We just haven't done the sort of cash flows to look at that.

Councilman Green

Well, is there a budget for a needs assessment in each department every single year? Is there personnel or someone tasked to doing a needs assessment and updating it every single year?

Mr. Tustin

I guess the short answer is no as far as money budgeted for a needs assessment. Most of the departments have facility staff on board, whether it be the Health Department or Recreation or the other operating departments as well. Public Property 59 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. plays a large role in doing ongoing maintenance for a lot of the City departments and agencies. Normally those departments and those staffs have a fairly good idea of the conditions of their buildings based on maintenance requests and work requests. So we don't do it on a yearly basis. We probably should do it --

Councilman Green

Is there a database that exists that you could update on a rolling basis that contains every single property that we're responsible for upkeep on, maintenance on?

Mr. Tustin

We do have a database. I'm not sure whether it includes every single property that the City is responsible for maintenance on, but we do have a database for most of the operating departments on all their facilities where we can look at the last time a roof was installed on a building or the last time -- 60 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Councilman Green

But that doesn't tell you if it needs a new roof.

Mr. Tustin

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. Normally what happens, Councilman, is that work records, maintenance records, are kept, and if in fact we uncover an issue where we have a leak on a roof, we'll go up or we'll have the department go up and do a maintenance of that area. If in fact we find out it's larger than it should be or we think it's going to develop into a problem --

Councilman Green

Okay. Let me ask you, is it fair to say that we have no idea what the total cost of deferred maintenance is in the City of Philadelphia?

Mr. Agostini

Madam President, Councilmember, I think that what we are relying on is, sort of our base of information is the PICA assessment that gets updated on a regular basis as projects get completed. We are doing some assessments. We're currently doing 61 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. an assessment for some of the Fairmount Park facilities and some of the smaller recreation facilities. But to your point about sort of a comprehensive assessment that is updated on an annual basis that then provides the information by which we can make the investments, it probably is not, again, as sharp as it needs to be and we probably need to go back and look at that assessment process to see that it is sharp and updated so that the investments are done in a manner that provides us the biggest return. (Bell rung.)

Councilman Green

Thank you. I'll leave it there and just quote Councilman Jones. If it isn't measured, it isn't managed. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, 62 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. Madam President. Good morning. I have a couple of quick ones. I hope they weren't asked. One, I needed to get clarity on the eligibility for the PICA dollars. I know at one point there was discussion about them being only to be used for emergency purposes in prior years and now I'm hearing that it's possibly not the case. Could you give me a definitive qualifier for the use of PICA dollars on capital projects?

Mr. Agostini

Councilmember, I'm going to defer to Ms. Ginnetti on this.

Councilman Clarke

Sure.

Ms. Ginnetti

Hi. Tina Ginnetti. To be eligible for PICA funding, a project must constitute an emergency which must be remedied as the result of a court order or is required to repair or replace a facility both owned by the City and placed into service prior 63 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. to June 5, 1991. And there's another criteria that has to -- the other criteria is that the project must be necessary to achieve savings and balance budgets under an approved financial plan. That option also requires approval by the Governor and certification by either the Auditor General or the State Treasurer.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. So now the question about the interest earnings from the PICA dollars, are there any qualifications or eligibility standards related to that money?

Ms. Ginnetti

My understanding based on previous conversations with PICA is that the same criteria applied to both the interest earnings and the reprogram funds, the funds that are available for reprogramming.

Councilman Clarke

Can you provide through the Chair in writing from PICA, because I keep getting this conflicting information about use of 64 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. those dollars. I'd just like to know definitively, once and for all, can we use both the PICA dollars and the interest-bearing funds as it relates to the PICA dollars.

Ms. Ginnetti

I will be glad to request that information.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you. I'm assuming that this issue about the Dell East came up, and if it didn't, I know it will soon come up. It did come up, Councilwoman?

Councilwoman Brown

No. It's going to.

Councilman Clarke

It's going to. All right. Well, I won't ask the specifics about the Dell, but I wanted to ask a question about process. In at least one instance and possibly two in my councilmanic district, we were in a position where we needed to spend capital dollars on a project and we needed to do it in an expeditious way, and we were able to utilize the local 65 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. community organization that had a relationship with that facility. The Eastern Penitentiary was one that comes to mind. And fortunately, that particular non-profit entity had significant skill-sets as it -- I think one of the members was an architect, the other was a lawyer. So they brought a lot of technical knowledge to the table, but as a result of that process, we were able to, I hate to say, go around the traditional capital process, but we were able to use an alternative process that, in our estimation, both got a significantly reduced project, although the standards and the quality of the project was just as good, if not better, than we traditionally get, and we were able to do it in a much shorter time frame, and I believe that PICA -- was it PICA or PAID involved in that process?

Councilman Clarke

Can you walk me through that process? 66 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Tustin

Sure. I'd be happy to. Richard Tustin, again. There are occasions where there are usually non-profit community groups that want to invest private dollars in a City facility. In many occasions they may not have enough funding to do it, so they've asked Councilmembers to supplement that out of their capital funds as well.

Councilman Clarke

Not to cut you off. So it can only happen when there's a contribution of private funds?

Mr. Tustin

In general, that's what we've been doing in the past when there is a match of funding with private contributions, but I've just talked to my Deputy and he feels that there may be some exceptions, but we would have to check on it on a case-by-case basis with the Law Department on that. But as you know, once we identify your funding or the capital 67 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. funding to match, we then work through a grant/subgrant agreement through PAID, which allows us to move the City capital funds through PAID to the non-profit organization, and then they then usually hire an architect or a designer and they can contract themselves for the work to be completed. Our office usually participates and reviews the design that they're doing and also send somebody out to do the inspection of the construction. (Bell rung.)

Councilman Clarke

Are there certain standards -- I'm assuming that there are certain standards we apply to the review process. We just don't let a non-profit go out and solicit bids.

Mr. Tustin

No. Normally the --

Councilman Clarke

Because I'm trying to understand how we were able to get a cost that was significantly less than what we had projected in the time line with significantly less than -- 68 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Tustin

The non-profit usually comes to the City with a scope of work that they want to do. Most of the time they've had already an engineer or an architect working with them to identify the scope of the cost to do that. Many times they go directly to private contractors and get estimates for the work before they even get to us. So sometimes they work almost as a design-build on their own to develop a scope and cost estimates that are real from contractors, so that when they do come to the City, they have those type of numbers. Then, as I just said, we work through Council office, PAID in order to match their funding or contribute towards their funding in doing the work. We also then review the drawings done by their architects or engineers, and we also have somebody from our staff go out and inspect the work so that we make sure that we're getting a quality job.

Councilman Clarke

All right. 69 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. I heard the bell. One last --

Council President Verna

No, no, no. 5

Councilman Clarke

I just want --

Council President Verna

No. 8 Councilwoman Tasco couldn't do it. Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, gentlemen. (Good morning.)

Councilwoman Brown

Councilmembers Clarke and Jones joined with me in introducing a resolution to examine whether or not the Administration can find an alternative site for the Dell East. So that's for your FYI. Subsequent to that, Majority Leader Tasco alerted us that often times concerns have been raised about the pace by which your office operates, and you've provided us with this chart that I found instructive, and I'm asking, for 70 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. starters, that you provide each one of us with a -- provide to the Chair who will share with us this project schedule goal chart.

Councilwoman Brown

Now, with that said, have you yet had a chance to sit down with the Rec Department to begin discussions around the status of the Dell East and the renovations that Councilman Clarke articulated?

Mr. Tustin

Yes. We have met with the Recreation Department and the Administration, as well as a member of the Dell family to review the type of work that we would like to do that they would like to see done, and we've actually put together a schedule for that type of work. And if you'd like, I can give you a briefing on that now or I can do it separately.

Councilwoman Brown

What I'd like us to do is to join with you, Councilmembers along with Majority Leader 71 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. Tasco and your staff, in a session where you do just that, walk us through all of the stages of this project schedule --

Mr. Tustin

Be happy to.

Councilwoman Brown

-- goal sheet.

Mr. Tustin

Be happy to.

Councilwoman Brown

And then we'll do an assessment of where we are and decide whether -- that will inform us what further action we as Councilmembers may or may not take.

Mr. Tustin

I'd be happy to.

Councilman Jones

Point of information, Madam President.

Councilwoman Brown

Councilman Jones, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Oh, I'm sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones for a point of information.

Councilman Jones

A friendly amendment to my colleague's request. I also want a Plan A and a Plan B. And I 72 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. don't even want to go to Plan C. And Plan A talks about how we keep that venue open for this season. Plan B talks about alternative sites. Plan C does not cancel the season at all. So we never want to go to Plan C. All right? Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

Councilman Jones raised questions about what defines environmental remediation projects, and you mention asbestos, lead paint removal and fuel tanks. So going forward and in honor of this "a new day" effort, have you had a chance to think through what other types of environmental remediation projects since the Centennial Lake piece simply did not qualify?

Mr. Tustin

I think when we put the budget request in, we were somewhat focused on the type of environmental remediation we have done in the past. It's not to say that other type environmental remediation cannot be done with those dollars. I'm sure they 73 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. can. And I think Gary just mentioned the fact that under the budget line for Site Land Improvement, that overall category would also qualify to do environmental remediation as long as it's on a park site.

Councilwoman Brown

As long as it's on a park site?

Mr. Tustin

Yeah. I think under this line it refers to what's called Parkland Site Improvements. So if it's parkland, whether it's remediation or improvements to a site, it should be covered under those lines.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. Give us a couple of examples of this $2 million that we use for the GreenPlan Philadelphia initiative.

Mr. Jastrzab

The GreenPlan Philadelphia initiative project will help to match funds where there are gaps in funding for a variety of other kinds of park projects.

Councilwoman Brown

Such as? 74 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Jastrzab

It could be the improvement of neighborhood parks, the planting of additional street trees, other kind of provision of access, say, to our riverfronts. That money could be used -- it's anticipated to be used in a variety of ways that would help Philadelphia develop its green infrastructure and green resources.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. So an inappropriate use of those dollars would be for -- would not be for an Earth Day initiative?

Mr. Jastrzab

No. They would have to be used for bricks and mortar projects --

Councilwoman Brown

Got it.

Mr. Jastrzab

-- that qualify under other criteria for which capital funds could be used.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. That answers that question. Speak to me about -- no. 25 That's to wait for Community College. 75 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. I had a question regarding SEPTA and the dollars being allocated for SEPTA. The $3.7 million for the SEPTA Market Elevated reconstruction project, how did you arrive at that figure and does your office in collaboration with SEPTA determine exactly how those dollars will be used or does the SEPTA make that decision independently?

Mr. Jastrzab

SEPTA provides the City with a request for funds to accomplish the projects that they would like to do in any particular year. They also -- SEPTA also maintains its own capital program and budget, and the two -- both the City's Capital Program and Budget and SEPTA's Capital Program and Budget kind of mesh together through the process of SEPTA submitting those requests to us. (Bell rung.)

Mr. Jastrzab

Because these are transportation projects, many of which are eligible for federal and state 76 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc. grants, the City money that is requested actually leverages great amounts of funding from other governments to accomplish those projects.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Agostini

Madam President --

Councilwoman Brown

I cannot ask a follow-up because the bell has rung. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes --

Mr. Agostini

Madam President?

Council President Verna

-- Councilwoman Miller. Yes, sir.

Mr. Agostini

May I clarify two of the Administration's comments that were in response to questions from Councilmember Clarke?

Council President Verna

Certainly. 77 3/4/08 - WHOLE - BILL 080154, etc.

Mr. Agostini

With respect to the interest earnings on PICA, there is discretion exercised by the PICA Board as to what can be done with those dollars. And with respect to the PAID projects, I do not believe there is a cap on those projects and the dollars associated with them. Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. Can you make sure the clock is set now, not when he was --

Council President Verna

We're starting.