Thank you, Councilwoman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Mr. President. Again, it's a very tearing issue. My mother's cousin, Johnny Witz, is on the wall at the Vietnam Veteran Memorial. I understand Councilwoman Blackwell's view, and we had a discussion last week that I thought it might be more appropriate, because I think a lot of these young people have no clue or conscience or understanding of their history. They have no conscience or understanding of what the Vietnam War meant and who sacrificed in it. There are ballplayers, major 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING league ballplayers today, of a certain age who don't know who Jackie Robinson is. There's a lot of folks who don't know their history. And while I understand the issue of the fine, the jail time seems to be a little bit over the top, and what I suggested last week was that we take the thousand dollar fine, attach it to $10 an hour community service so that people who are caught doing this and get a -- give them a citation for it, could go under Municipal Court supervised community service program, which would require them to clean up the mess that they made and then also perhaps be assigned to the Veterans Multi-Service Center down in Old City so that they could have some interface with the people that actually served our country. I think this is as much an education process of people's history and the history of this country as it is the punitive side of it. 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING I can't vote against it because I understand the emotions that have been presented here in the comment period, but the jail time makes me not be able to vote for it. So I will be abstaining on this vote. Thank you.
Councilman, I'm not quite sure that's a legitimate abstention.
It's certainly a category of vote. As I said, I have family on the wall. I understand the upsetment. I understand the concern. I understand the expense. But I don't think the people who are causing this understand the history, and I think that a thousand dollars worth of community service will go further than locking somebody up. Because I think in the end what we need to do is educate them.
I 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING hear you, Councilman, but, I mean, there are rules governing abstentions. And I haven't been here as long as you, but I didn't think --
Thank you. Let me say that Councilman Kenney is correct. He brought all these issues to me last week, and when I met with this bill sponsor as recently as yesterday, I talked about those things, talked about community service, and that if the community service was not adhered to, then consider jail time, but the sponsor would not agree to a compromise, and that is why I'm voting no today.
I understand that, but the question on the floor -
As a point of order, the rules do not permit abstentions or recusals in a circumstance where there's not a conflict. I move to suspend the rules so that Councilman Kenney and anyone else who wishes to may abstain on this vote.
I'm not feeling that, all due respect. We are and have and will continue to have very difficult votes that we have to take. And personally -- and I understand I serve at you all's pleasure, but I don't feel comfortable if you get a tough vote, you decide to like not have to vote. I mean, that's your whole point for being here.
I'll make it easy for you. When you call the roll, I'll walk out.
All right. Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Bass.
Thank you, Mr. President. I just wanted to weigh in as the Chair of Parks and Recreation and make it clear that obviously we have a need here in the City of Philadelphia for a variety of venues for our young people to be able to have recreational activities, and it's very unfortunate, I find it very disturbing that we are at this point and so conflicted. Obviously as a city it feels like we're putting veterans against skateboarders, and as a Council, we obviously feel very, very 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING conflicted. I don't know that legislatively we will really accomplish what it is that we're trying to accomplish. I think that really the best way to address this matter is in what we do in our districts in the recreational facilities and making sure that we have the appropriate outlets for this sort of activity. It kind of goes back to when we were talking about ATVs earlier on and Councilwoman Brown was having hearings on that particular matter, and we spoke about it at that time, that we wanted to find the appropriate place for this sort of activity to be. So I just wanted to circle back to that, that this is something that doesn't have to be criminalized. It doesn't have to be a penalized activity. We just need to make sure that we are being responsive to the citizens of Philadelphia. If this is a recreational need that has come upon us after most of our recreation centers were built, this 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING is something that I think as a district member of Council that we should be looking into. So thank you.
Thank you, Councilwoman. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Brien.
Thank you, Mr. President, and I promise to be brief. I believe this is pure and simply an enforcement issue. I am unilaterally supportive of all the arts and the memorials for fallen heroes. I am very cautious about escalating the penalties, because often in my history and doing criminal justice legislation, that leads to non-convictions or charges being reduced. I am, however, going to support this, but I will reemphasize that the standard has to be better enforcement if we're going to protect these cultural treasures and the memorials that represent our true heroes in society. 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Mr. President. I'm also conflicted on this bill and have gone back and forth even within this session, which is not normal for me. And it's not just because of the pulls between being for veterans and/or being for skateboarders, but because both groups will view it that way. As someone who views my task as not being a politician but a legislator first, it causes me to think deeper and go deeper. And so I'll be casting my vote today actually standing with Councilwoman Blackwell, because I think the decision today is about whether we're going to create a fine or create a crime. And we should not be creating a crime. Maybe we should be creating a fine. But I do not want to criminalize this, 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING particularly in a city like this where there are hundreds of thousands of people who are ex-offenders, when a significant part of this city actually falls into a category where they're locked out of economic opportunity and there are cycles and cycles of people that actually cause our economy to worsen because they're trapped in a criminal justice system for years and years. So I will be voting against this bill because we're calling it a crime and not a fine. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Oh.
Thank you very much, Mr. President. I appreciate all and respect all my colleagues' input. I know everyone has expressed, I think, their sincere concerns. I would like to point out that it is not a crime. In 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING order for it to be a crime, we'd have to have a criminal statute or an amendment to existing criminal statutes, and that can only be done in Harrisburg. So this is a civil penalty, and many civil penalties in addition to having fines do include periods of confinement or jail depending on what the violation is. In this case, once again, I would say that, one, this is not an issue of an activity that is not provided for. The activity of skateboarding is provided for on any street, in any playground, in any piece of pavement or what-have-you. What is not allowed is damaging memorials and public artwork unless somebody would like to enact a law that that is legal and proper in the City. It's not. And the other thing is that the current system of fines and enforcement has not worked. And in our city where we have such crimes and other things, we don't have the police, park rangers or others to enforce and protect these 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING valuable locations. I do appreciate Councilwoman Blackwell meeting with me and having discussion, and I appreciate Councilman Kenney presenting the idea of community service. What I'm not able to do is to draft a piece of legislation that then tells the judge how to proceed. This is up to the judge. The judge may provide community service, may not impose the complete fine, may not do a number of things, may not have any jail time, may order community service or whatever, but judges too are elected and are expected to use the wisdom and legal knowledge that they have in a fair and just manner. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.
Having given a lot of thought about this, and I've heard some really good debates, I'm going 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING to try to do two things to be Solomonesque. I'm going to vote for this, but I'm also going to take my rec dollars and build a skate park so that young people will have an opportunity. And I will urge every District Councilperson that votes for this to do so likewise, to commit to having a venue in their district so they have an alternative source of recreation, and to challenge our at-large people to raise money collectively to pick a site as well. Thank you, Mr. President. That's what I'm going to do.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Mr. President. Very briefly. The legislative record on this vote will reflect that Councilman Oh said that fines have not worked. The legislative 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING record should also note that the language regarding jail time could have been stricken and then a judge could still make whatever decision they were going to make. There was an intent to rise this above the level of a fine to the level of a crime. So I'll still be voting no.
Thank you, Councilman. There are no other speeches. And, again, I'm not supposed to attempt to influence the vote as the presiding officer, but I would like to say -- and I don't know how the vote is going to come down. It may go down; it may pass. And I guess whatever I say is going to influence the vote, but I would like to say regardless of the outcome of this particular vote, follow-up, as Councilwoman said earlier, as it relates to this particular issue. I'm not sure if the Mayor is 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING going to sign the bill immediately, because I do know it was originally an Administration bill. If he doesn't, it will give us some time to reflect on the other side of the coin in terms of being able to come up with an appropriate proposal as it relates to the broader issue of giving people an opportunity to skateboard. There are some other issues legally with respect to some of the challenges associated with that. So I would ask us and I would ask -- and I'm probably not supposed to do this either, is appoint Councilwoman Bass as the Chair of Rec and Parks and actually I believe cultural aspects within the City of Philadelphia, regardless of the outcome, because I do believe this issue will come back if it doesn't pass, and if it does pass, the issue will continue in terms of dialogue, that, Councilwoman, that you immediately start having conversation and bring the two together so we can talk about a 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING broader initiative. I know Councilwoman Sanchez has also referenced the broader issue regulating skateboards and some of the other aspects of that recreational activity. So I would just like to say that, without suggesting or trying to influence the vote. But I understand. I, like Councilman Kenney, I am very torn about this particular issue. It's a challenge. I got a head start on you, Councilman, since my skateboard park is in fact going to be done very shortly. So, Councilman. Let me recognize Councilman Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. President. And I spoke to the Councilman the other day regarding this issue. First and foremost for the record, my dad was a veteran. I lived off of veteran benefits. It helped my mom help raise me. I was recently at the commitment from the City to open up the 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING Veterans Commission Office to help veterans regarding services to improve the quality of their lives. And, however, I am too conflicted, particularly on this issue. The thousand dollar fine I don't think is excessive. I just think there needs to be a process of actually enforcing it. And also I think just another suggestion, even the enforcement of the fines and using those fines, the money from the fines, to go to refurbish those two particular memorial sites should be something that should be looked at. But when it comes to sending young people to jail and the process of getting a record is really where the rubber meets the road primarily for myself, because for most young people -and I come from that generation of skateboarders and I know about Tony Hawk and I know about the advocacy of my young man Lil Wayne, and there's a growing strong population of young men throughout 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING my district. And, Councilman Jones, we are doing a skateboard park at the Ralph Brooks Tot Lots. But, however, sometimes young people make poor decisions. I'm not making excuses for them, but I do know once you get a record and you just happen to be 18 going on 19 and you're adult, it's a death sentence for life for some dumb decisions you made as a juvenile -actually as an adult. So as conflicted as I am, I have no problem also, but I'm not voting for the bill. Hopefully in the future there can also be additional discussions in terms of possibly some amendments to kind of make it right where the enforcement component is actually taken a look at. And also I'm quite sure the skateboard community has been sent a clear message that we won't tolerate this. But I just think in terms of sending young people to jail, it may do 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING more harm in the long run than benefits. And even right now the City is being looked at as being sued based upon overcrowding of our prison system in this city. I think the community service component is a good mechanism, and then maybe beyond that, you can look at other extreme measures. But I do know once you get a record and you're 18 going on 19, it will be a death sentence for life. But I want to state for the record, for our veterans, I do support them. I just think we could find some other creative ways to monitor those particular sites and maybe a task force between the Police Department and the actual non-profit organizations that take care of those sites, because I think the key component that we need to look at is enforcement, what's being enforced already on the books. And so I just want to state that for the record before we take the 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING vote.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Bass.
Thank you, Mr. President. I just wanted to just go back to say I do support our veterans, but I'm going to be voting no on this today. I didn't know that David was Chair of the Local 82nd Airborne Committee. My brother-in-law was in the 82nd Airborne. I have the utmost respect for all veterans, always have, always will. I just think that this particular bill is not necessarily the direction that we need to move into to fix this problem. I know that this bill came, just as a matter of clarity, this bill came from the Administration, and Councilman Oh graciously has been carrying this bill on their behalf. So what I would suggest is that wherever the 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING idea came from, whoever crafted this particular piece of legislation, that they would also strongly consider figuring out ways to fund some of our recreational activities as a solution rather than offering up criminal penalties. Thank you.
Point of order, Mr. President. I'm going to ask to be excused. I'm going on the record as voting yes.
All right, Councilman. Will you be back for the remaining bills?
It is truly a point of information. I would like Councilman Oh or someone else to make absolutely clear whether or not there is any crime associated with this or a person convicted of denigrating a memorial site would have a criminal record. Thank you.
Councilman Oh was actually next. Councilman Oh.
Yes. In answer to Councilman Green's question, I'd like to be absolutely clear as an attorney and former prosecutor here in Philadelphia that there's absolutely no criminal record. There's no criminal record. There's no criminal record, because it's 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING not a crime. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Mr. President. I wasn't going to speak on this, but just one thing on the whole imprisonment issue, and I think what Councilman Oh said was illustrative, but reading the bill, it says -- and this, I believe, was the amendment -upon the third violation, imprisonment of up to 30 days. And I think that's important. If a person has violated this three times, in my opinion, they've shown a total disregard for this issue. And, again, it's up to the judge. They don't have to get 30 days, but it gives the judge an option on the third violation. And that's why I'm comfortable personally voting for this bill. Thank you, Mr. President. 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Mr. President. I'll be brief again. Councilman Greenlee is exactly correct, the bill does essentially make it a crime. And the legislative record will also reflect that in past hearings and meetings on this bill, Councilman Oh was asked a question directly about whether jail time was taken out of the bill or not, and he said it absolutely was not. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you. Okay. Councilman Oh, I anticipate that you're awaiting a vote.
Thank you. Okay. This bill -- I'm going to pick up I think where we left off. This bill having been read on 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING two separate times, the question is shall the bill pass finally. Mr. Decker, please call the roll.
Councilman 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING Kenney. (No response.)
The majority of all members having voted in the affirmative, the bill passes. (Applause.)
An ordinance amending Title 14 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and Planning," by providing for revised sign controls and making technical changes.
This bill having been read on two separate occasions, the question is shall the bill pass finally. Mr. Decker, please call the roll.
Mr. President, I abstain for the reasons reflected in the memo to the Chief Clerk last week.
Aye. The ayes are 16; the nays are zero. A majority of all members present having voted in the affirmative, the bill passes. Mr. Decker, 120774-A.
An ordinance amending Title 14 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and Planning," by revising and clarifying certain provisions and making technical changes; and amending various other Titles to make conforming changes.
This bill having been read on two separate occasions, the question is shall the bill pass finally. Mr. Decker, please call the roll.
Aye. The ayes are 17; the nays are zero. A majority of all members present having voted in the affirmative, the bill passes. Folks, could we ask you to please keep your voices down a little bit. We're still in session. Thank you. 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING Mr. Decker, please read the title of -
I just want to be on the record to be reported that I am voting yes on Bill No. 120430-A.
Thank you. That shall be reflected in the record, and that vote is 17; zero. Mr. Decker, please read the title of 120800.
An ordinance approving the plan, estimated costs and proposed method of assessment and charges of the Center City District for and concerning business improvements and administrative services to the central business district of the City of Philadelphia for 2013 through 2017.
This bill having been read on two separate 12/13/12 - STATED - 2ND READING occasions, the question is shall the bill pass finally. Mr. Decker, please call the roll.
Aye. The ayes are 17; the nays are zero. A majority of all members present having voted in the affirmative, the bill passes. Mr. Decker, I believe the next bill is 120889.