COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 23, 2007 10:15 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO, CHAIR COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO BILL 070683 - An ordinance amending Chapter 14 10-700 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Refuse and Littering," by adding a section 15 creating a reward program for the provision of information leading to a determination that an individual has engaged in short dumping, all under certain terms and conditions. - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good morning. This is the public hearing on the Committee of Streets and Services. We have a quorum. Present are Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, Councilman Frank Rizzo and Councilman Darrell Clarke. I would ask Mr. Abernathy to read the title of the first bill.
Bill No. 070683, an ordinance amending Chapter 10-700 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Refuse and Littering," by adding a section creating a reward program for the provision of information leading to a determination that an individual has engaged in short dumping, all under certain terms and conditions. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is there anyone testifying on this? Thank you. Good morning, Madam Managing Director. Please begin with your testimony.
Thank you. Good 3 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 morning, Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Rizzo, Councilman DiCicco and Councilman Clarke, members of the Committee on Streets and Services. I am Loree Jones, Managing Director. I'm joined today by Deputy Streets Commissioner Carlton Williams, as well as Keep Philadelphia Beautiful Executive Director Phoebe Coles. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on the reward program for short dumping. As you know, short dumping refers to the illegal dumping of trash and debris. Short dumping negatively impacts the quality of life in our City's neighborhoods, and several City agencies spend millions of dollars each year to enforce prohibitions against illegal dumping and to clear the debris from City sidewalks, streets, parks and land. The Streets Department, Fairmount Park Commission, Department of Licenses and Inspections, Police Department and Managing Director's Office 4 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 are all involved in our fight against illegal dumping. The Streets Department cleans our roadways and sidewalks of illegal dumping. My office has a dedicated staff that regularly clean and service over 30,000 vacant lots throughout the City, many of which are impacted by illegal dumping. Areas of Fairmount Park are also impacted by illegal dumping on a regular basis that requires Fairmount Park crews to clean our parks of trash and debris. The City enforces prohibitions against illegal dumping by issuing citations and violations when we can identify the offender. Since Fiscal Year 2005, the Philadelphia Police Department has responded to over 1,500 complaints regarding short dumping and litter in our City. It is important to note that private citizens assist in our fight against short dumping as well. Volunteers help clean our parks, roadway 5 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 systems and vacant lots. We thank them for joining our fight against illegal dumping and for their generous donation of time and effort and their dedication to keeping our City clean. At the direction of Mayor John F. Street, the City recently started a citywide clean-up program. The goal of the citywide clean-up program is to clean each block of the City over an eight-week period. Teams of Streets Department employees are dispatched to neighborhoods on the areas' regularly scheduled trash day. One sanitation division is scheduled for this special cleaning each week of the program. The teams are comprised of SWEEPs officers, sanitation workers with backpack blowers, mechanical brooms and street flushers. The teams clear trash and debris from our neighborhoods and then Clean Block Officers distribute notices informing residents that their block has been cleaned and providing information on 6 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 keeping their neighborhood clean and litter free. For highly littered areas and areas with the proliferation of short dumping, the Streets Department is coordinating with other City agencies specializing in cleaning, including Licenses and Inspections, the NTI Vacant Lot Program and the Police Department, to address the City's most pressing litter problems. In addition, Fairmount Park and the Recreation Department are participating in the operation by cleaning their properties in coordination with the citywide schedule. Despite our best efforts, however, illegal dumpers continue to break our laws and blight our neighborhoods. In addition to the social costs of illegal dumping, there's a financial cost. Taxpayers bear the burden for the City to provide cleaning services for those who knowingly break our laws. Several million dollars, as I 7 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 mentioned, each year are expended to clean our streets, parks and lots of trash and debris that's illegally dumped. The Administration, therefore, supports the concept of a reward program for information leading to the arrest, conviction or issuance of fines that could ultimately reduce short dumping in our City.
We look forward to working with City Council to discuss methods to best implement the program. Good morning, Councilman Ramos. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good morning, Councilman Ramos. He's also a member of this Committee. Welcome. Carlton, why don't you proceed with your testimony, then we'll take it from there. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Councilman. Good morning, Councilwoman Miller and honorable members of City Council and the Committee on Streets and Services. My name is Carlton Williams, 8 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 Deputy Commissioner of the Streets Department. I'm here today to present testimony on illegal dumping in the City of Philadelphia. Illegal dumping of trash and other refuse such as construction -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Excuse me, Mr. Williams, not to interrupt. Do you have copies of your testimony? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I do have copies of my testimony. Illegal dumping of trash and other refuse such as construction debris, discarded tires, used furniture and appliances and all sorts of hazardous materials and substances is a serious problem in the City of Philadelphia, with direct and significant impacts on the health, safety and welfare of all who live, work and visit here. Many of our streets, sidewalks and vacant lots have become chronic dumping grounds for tens of thousands of tons of illegally dumped trash and debris. 9 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 Illegal dumping creates fertile breeding grounds for the proliferation of rodents, disease and safety hazards to children, as well as other contamination exposure to soil and storm water runoff. Also, in many cases where a concentration on chronic dumping exists, there are higher rates of crime, graffiti and blighted conditions that contribute to a progressive degradation of the quality of life in affected neighborhoods. These effects can reverberate throughout an area's economy, raising the costs of doing business and ultimately bringing about the demise of many businesses and commerce and jobs that they provide. In FY07, the Streets Department serviced nearly 1,600 short dump locations in the City of Philadelphia and removed more than 19,000 tons of debris from these locations. In addition, the Streets Department collected and disposed of more than 184,000 illegally dumped tires. 9 million annually. These are direct expenditures by the Streets Department and do not include additional costs from other City agencies and departments. I thank you for the opportunity to testify today. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you and good morning. How do other municipalities handle the removal of illegally discarded tires? Are there any incentives in other counties or municipalities? Are there places where people can take tires to? Anything like that going on that you know of? And if not, that's okay. I'm just curious. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. I can look into it what other counties do. I know in the City of Philadelphia, six times a year we offer our annual tire round-ups where neighborhood communities and businesses or neighborhood groups can bring tires to 11 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 a certain designated location where we park a compactor to take the tires away, and we actually pay the community service groups for their participation. I believe it's 50 cents a tire. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I remember now that you said that, I remember hearing something about that. Where are those locations? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we announce them at designated locations within the community. So they can randomly change. Each year when we announce the program, we have a designated spot throughout the City of Philadelphia. So there's no one particular location, but we announce it through our scheduled program. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And how many tires? I notice in your testimony 184,000. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 184,000. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And it 12 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 costs us a million point nine.
I'm wondering, would it be in our better interest if we were to give -- I'm just using this number -- a dollar per tire but have a place where people can go to on a regular basis? Because someone is not going to store their tires in their home or backyard for months waiting for that -- and I'm not being critical of the program. Please understand that. 9 million to remove them anyway, if we went for a buck a tire, assuming everyone cooperated, and we know that that's not necessarily going to be the case, but it might not be a bad pilot program if we had more centers or locations that people can do it pretty much on a regular basis and offer an incentive, a dollar, two dollars per tire. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, Councilman. 9 million covers all illegal dumping, and tires are inclusive 13 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 of that. So that's all the tonnage that we pick up each and every day. But that is something that at our drop-off locations that we can consider. We have six located throughout the area. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In any case, I mean for a couple hundred thousand dollars or quarter million dollars, just arbitrary number, and we can get most of the majority of that stuff off our streets, it's certainly going to save us some money and time and, more importantly, it removes that blight, which is the bigger problem. And I know my colleagues have some questions. The other concern I have, and I raised this in the past, is aside from the short dumping that goes on on vacant lots, the biggest issue that I confront in my district is people who take their household trash and dump it at either a recreation facility, because they figure that someone from Rec is going to pick it up in the next day or two, or at any 14 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 location, most locations where we have the public trash receptacles. I mean, South Broad Street -- I saw Ms. Jones shaking her head. We had those problems on South Broad Street that we keep the receptacle there. We take it away because they become magnets for folks to drop off household trash. I asked this question a few years ago and I'll ask it again. I'm wondering if it would make sense for us to have enforcement agents, someone from the SWEEP unit or whatever, literally watching these locations, because I think once a few people begin to get fined in a neighborhood, word spreads fast. And a lot of it is a result of people who live in apartment buildings where there's really no place for them to place their trash. If you happen to live on the first floor, you have access to the yard. That's one thing. But the floors above it, there's no place for trash, and maybe we need to get a little bit more involved 15 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 with multi-family apartment rental property owners, where they're going to have to start paying to have their trash removed daily by a commercial pick-up. And they'll say it's going to cost money, but you know and I know they're going to pass it on to the tenant anyway and that ultimately someone is paying for it and it's the taxpayer. So I don't buy that argument, but that is one of the problems. And I know South Broad Street, you wake up and go down South Broad Street on a Sunday morning, it looks like a bomb hit it from everybody who comes out and just dumps their trash. We get people who come from Jersey as well on their way into work in the morning, open up their trunk and deposit their trash on our streets, because they moved out of the City because it wasn't a clean place. So in any event, I really think that's something that I would like to work, along with my colleagues on this committee, to see if there's some 16 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 incentives for the tires and also to really step up enforcement.
I get the little old lady who occasionally gets a ticket because she didn't sweep her sidewalk, and in most cases, it really wasn't their fault, but if we can get the bigger issue where the short dumping of the household trash that's being left at intersections on corners throughout our City, I think we can probably settle a lot -- we can handle a lot of our other trash issues. But, again, we can work something out. I'd be more than willing to put some time into that as well. Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to pick up on the tire issue. Now, currently you're able to put one tire out on your weekly trash? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. We don't collect tires in the rubbish. 17 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683
You don't collect them at all? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't collect them at all, no. 6
And I agree with Councilman DiCicco. No one is going to keep that tire in their backyard and wait for those six times a year, and we should have places where people can go. Are there any available now? For example, can someone go to Domino Lane in the northwest and drop off a tire? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Presently right now we don't have the locations. Most of our people that have to discard tires have to get rid of them privately. But, again, that's something that we can look into in terms of having a disposal location more frequently so residents can go and have access to taking tires and won't have to hold until certain points of the year.
Because I know in my district what I routinely see 18 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 is a tire in front of a house or more than one tire under like a SEPTA overpass, like under the R-8 or R-9 line. Someone will take it to the bridge and dump it there. And I just think that we have to do a better job of helping people understand, and I know it won't be a solve all, but at least we can help them understand what they can do with a used tire. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can definitely look into that, Councilwoman.
Right. Currently, I know that there is a fine of up to $5,000 and you can confiscate a vehicle if someone is caught dumping illegally; is that not correct? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct.
I've had constituents that have said that when they've tried to report people, they won't take the report even if they have a 19 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 license tag. What is the reporting process? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well --
And who do they call? The Police Department? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, there's two departments that's primarily responsible. Police Department Neighborhood Services Division, when you have the ability or you are looking for an arrest or a conviction. The Police Department has to have enough evidence to arrest and the DA will prosecute and then convict, and then that's when the fine and the penalty is then assessed. In order for them to do that, they do have to have the evidence of catching someone in the act, either via license plate number, description of the vehicle. An eyewitness testimony definitely helps when it comes down to prosecuting those who are illegal dumping in our City. 20 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683
So the person that has the license tag has to also be willing to testify? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's definitely a court -- when we met earlier this year with the DA's Office, it definitely helps support the testimony.
Because I've had actually constituents say that they've caught them, they have a license tag, but people have told them that that's not enough, and I don't know what else they're supposed to do. I know that a woman called me and we personally went out there to try and find this truck. It was a truck that belonged to a person who lived in that neighborhood who did, I'll just say, light construction, and he would bring his debris over to this particular lot and dump. And he was smart enough to cover his tags, but they had a description of the truck. So me and 21 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 another staff person would ride through the neighborhood every night trying to find the truck so we could get the tags. And we ultimately, after probably a couple months, we were able to find the truck. Because he was a big headache, and other people in the neighborhood knew who he was, knew what he was doing and were complaining. So we were able to get the truck, find the truck finally, and we sent him a letter, because we found -- we got the tags. We traced the tags. So we knew who the truck belonged to. The owner of the truck really was not the driver. It was a person that was actually rooming in his home. And we sent him a letter and threatened him, and we had the lot cleaned and we have not had a problem with that truck ever since. And then we've had people that have been threatened at gunpoint. Right now the sites are monitored by the Police Department, correct, if it's a really bad 22 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 site? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, yeah. And I don't want to contradict the citizen that called it, but the Neighborhood Service Division has been very responsive and supportive of the illegal dump sites that we have targeted throughout the City that's frequently used, and they've been great in terms of trying to provide that level of support to prosecute them. Again, it's very difficult sometimes because of the time of day that these people come into our City and neglect our laws and abuse our environment. But it's an ongoing process, and we've gotten tremendous support from the Neighborhood Services Division.
I know that many times the dumpers are neighbors. I have a couple sites in my district that if I offered to give you a reward right now to go find that street, 23 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 you couldn't find it, because it's so off the beaten path. And we've cleaned it for years. We clean it. And I was there one day and there was the police officer from -- I don't know the unit, but he told us that he has actually seen people that live right in the neighborhood bring in sofas on top of their cars and things like that and just constantly dumping there. And this is probably one of the most notorious places for short dumping. And we go, we clean it. We give flyers out. We tell people about the new fine, the ability to confiscate their vehicle. And that may cut down on a little, but it just continues to happen there, and we've even thought about putting up -- one of the State Reps has actually said he'll pay to have a video camera installed at that site. So we're thinking about doing that. But it has to be people in the neighborhood, because it's not a street that people know how to get to unless you 24 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 are from that particular area. And I don't know that we'll be able to stop this until we really, really catch some people and the word spreads in the neighborhood that maybe your car was confiscated, because it's just a notorious dump site.
And, Councilwoman, that's why I think we're so encouraged by your proposed legislation. If we could work together to tighten up the enforcement and to give people incentives, we think we can make a dent in it. Part of what we're addressing is really an attitude and that people think it's okay to litter in the City and to dump debris. We have great City crews that are always willing to go out and clean up and we've made a commitment to keep our neighborhoods clear of blight, but we really need to be working together, maybe being a little bit creative in the way we're really responding. 25 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683
And it's going to be enforcement, but it's also going to be changing people's attitudes about what's okay. If what you're saying is true, people are really driving around their corner. They're keeping it in their own neighborhood. So I'm hoping that we can be creative in working together to do some real enforcement on this issue.
I'm looking forward to that, too. Let me ask one question, because I know that most people when there's illegal dumping, many people think they should jump on the phone and call L&I. And actually what should someone do? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the department that's responsible if we want an arrest made for the typical what we call short dumper, which is a person who loads up their car, whether it 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 be contractor debris, landscaping material, what-have-you, we want to actually catch that person, and the only way we can enforce the higher penalty of fine for the DA to prosecute is if the police make an arrest. So the Neighborhood Services Division from the Police Department is the primary agency responsible for making an arrest and a conviction of someone who is illegal dumping in our City. They can contact L&I, but L&I would probably refer them to that division as well.
Okay. And Neighborhood Services still exists? I know that there was some shuffling around at some of the police districts. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, they still exist.
Okay. I've been taking a picture of a house all summer. Someone is cleaning out that particular house. They had a tenant who moved, and what they did, they took all 27 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 the debris from the house and put it in the side yard, and it's right there on the main -- it's in the front of the house, because the yard is pretty wide. And I've sent them into the police district. I've sent them -- at this point -- and trust me, I know that people get cited, but they ignore the citations, and that's when I know that I feel that we need stronger enforcement, because this house has had this debris for four months and it's still there. It's still there today, and this guy, this owner, just doesn't think he has to move it. How do we get those kind of people in court and how long does it take? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that is an L&I issue when they're starting to store it on their own private personal property. When we're talking about illegal dumping and short dumping, we're talking about people who literally leave their property, go to an area rec 28 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 center, go to an abandoned street and go to an area park and dump tires and debris and discard the material and take off. But people who then place the material on their own property and use it as storage bins then becomes a private property issue, which then L&I comes out and writes several code violation notices until those issues are resolved. And the course then runs itself until either the court has resolved or they either confiscate the property or it goes to court for the property. So those are the differences in which -- when people may get confused about who to call. The difference is that when people take their debris and actually take it to a piece of public property or someone else's private property and start dumping, that becomes a fine that is enforceable by the Neighborhood Services Division. But when we're talking about their own private property where they're just storing stuff 29 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 in the backyard like you just stated, then that becomes an L&I issue.
Okay. So most police stations, if they don't have a sanitation officer, they have the community relations officer that someone can call, correct? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct.
Okay. I have a whole lot of questions, but they don't all have to be answered today, because we're not going to solve this today. I think it's great that we've decided that we do need to work together to try to come up with this whole program. I believe offering people an award or reward would help stem the tide. I consistently drive to those streets in my district that I know are a haven for illegal dumpers just to see if there's anything that we're doing that's discouraging people, and the only thing some of what has worked so far is 30 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 sometimes we'll do a before and after picture. We'll do a picture before we clean and a picture after. We put the $5,000 -- we put the information on there about the fine and the confiscation of the vehicle, and in one neighborhood, that has absolutely worked. And we did a door-to-door lit drop. In other neighborhoods, people just kind of ignored it. But our goal is to stop the illegal dumping, period. So thank you. I don't have any more questions right now. Loree, you and I can get together afterwards.
Thank you. I've got a couple questions for you, but are you familiar with, I think it's called, the tire tax, what that is supposed to accomplish? I belive when you buy tires, there's a disposal charge added to your bill. I don't know whether 31 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 that's for the purchase of the new tires, the old tires. Do we benefit or is that federal or state? What exactly happens with that money?
I actually don't know where that money goes. I know I've paid it. But I can look into where it actually goes, because when I purchased before, it was almost $5 a tire or something that was tagged on. And what I assumed happened with that is the vendor that I had purchased the tires from used that -- took my old tires, disposed of them, and if it costs that vendor to dispose of them, they use that $5. That's what I assumed they did with it, but I can check to see if the City --
That sounds logical, but in our business, not everything is logical. One of the questions that I have, years ago one of the big problems -- sometimes people have good intentions. They'll go to the yard, to 32 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 the sanitation yard. Like the one that I'm familiar with is Domino Lane. They have a pickup truck full of junk that they want to dispose of. They're turned away. They're told you can't dump it here. Well, guess what? They go two blocks away and they dump it on Umbria Street. Also, there's a drop-off point at Domino Lane. It looks pretty raggedy, by the way. I went by there the other day. It really looks like it needs some attention paid to it and cleaning it up a little bit, because it's starting to get to be -- how can you make a drop-off point look attractive, but maybe you need some barrier fencing or something to hide it from the roadway, because it's pretty bad. What exactly can you discard? And if we communicate it to the public, in the community newspapers especially, what can you bring there, what you can't. Why can't you bring tires there? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 33 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 Well, a couple of things. Because some of the contractors sneak in. Our drop-off locations are set up for residents to bring trash, and when we allow trucks full of material to come in, they could -- for instance, the tire tax that you talked about earlier, if I charge Ms. Jones a fee and then I decide to take it to the drop-off location, of course, the City is then paying for the tab and she's charged. I know you're talking about your common resident with three or four tires, but then it becomes a stickler when you start bringing trucks in with different type of debris.
But you can manage that. That's a matter of management. In other words, if you're going to bring a half-ton pickup truck in is one thing, but if you're going to bring a ten-ton dump truck in, you reject possibly those. But what can the average person bring to those drop-off points? I mean, 34 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 I don't think many people really know. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can bring -- first of all, we allow their cars in with household trash.
Just cars? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, just cars, not trucks, because, again, we get into the issue of whether they're a contractor cleaning out a home and working for someone, and actually they may be charging the citizen. Those fees are then used in our drop-off facility to discard their trash when they're supposed to discard it. So we have to draw some line where there's some standards and guidelines in place of what we accept at those drop-off centers, because, as you know, their tonnage right now is about $60 a ton. And so if we just started allowing trucks and vehicles inside those locations with different types of materials, then there becomes no 24 limit. They can come daily. So we don't place a number of times that they come in 35 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 to the drop-off location. So they come daily throughout a week and discard all of their material. It then becomes a problem for the City and a tax burden for the City of Philadelphia.
I think that would be a good campaign if you want to put some ads in the local newspapers, like the Roxborough Review, et cetera, explaining to the residents. And I believe, honestly, there's a way to manage it where you have to show your driver's license with your local address in it, that you're not a contractor from Chester. Because somebody has a Ford 150 and they want to put a couple washing machines that they just disposed of in the back of it, I see a lot of washers and dryers and things, and I don't think they put those in the trunk of a car. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's correct.
Unless our people are putting them there. 36 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When we collect it with our bulk truck, we use that also as a storage facility for us to then take it for that scrap metal.
That's why I said it's starting to look a little raggedy. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we do have a plan, first of all, to clean up, number one, but, number two, to make an investment to do repaving and restriping so that people have a clear direction of where to go and to improve the center itself.
Let me tell you another issue, Managing Director, that really bothers me personally. When you talk about the City being responsible, it's kind of like people going to the incinerator and being rejected. There's various salvers that have yards. And I'm not suggesting that the one in Roxborough is the person 37 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 that's perpetrating this, but there is a lot of salvers on Umbria Street and I notice that on Umbria Street it's become a dump for abandoned cars. My speculation is that somebody tries to bring a vehicle there and they don't have the right documentation and instead of taking it back, they just dump it because the word is out, the word, believe me, dump it there because the City for free will take it away, and they do. The Abandoned Car Unit pays attention, which they do an excellent job, but I'm hoping that we do some detective work to trace a vehicle. There's hidden serial numbers. There's numbers that -- our Police Department are the experts at that. But to let these people that are intentionally dumping cars at various locations get away with it is a crime in itself. We have an obligation to make sure we get those people. Because somebody actually dumped along Umbria Street a tractor-trailer, the trailer 38 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 part. The whole trailer was full of trash, and before they could move the tractor-trailer, the sanitation people had to go for the Police Department and take all of the trash out, because the truck stayed there for maybe three, four months and people started to fill it up with trash, trash bags. So I would really hope that you would instruct the Police Department's Abandoned Car Unit in those areas that are notoriously places where you drop cars to try to put some of those people in jail that are doing that.
Please. And let me see. That is the last thing. Thanks. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. 39 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683
Real briefly, yesterday, as you know -- Ms. Jones, you were actually there -- there was an announcement of the City's roll-out of its first video surveillance cameras, and they were going to deal primarily with crime at this point, but during the course of discussions, there had been some thought that we may, as a part of the application, deal with some of these short dumping, the issues that Councilwoman Miller brings before us today, and some of the other issues on some of the commercial corridors like Councilman DiCicco talked about earlier, people bringing out house trash and other types of inappropriate debris to put in cans that were intended for pedestrian use. If we were tomorrow to ask the City/Streets Department in particular to come up with recommendations for locations and strategies to allow us to 40 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 apply a camera program to help us enforce those particular issues of short dumping and dumping around sites such as Councilman Rizzo discussed, how realistically do you think we could expect to get an answer in very short order?
I think very quickly. I think the Streets Department -- I know that the Streets Department already has a list of the problem locations, and they obviously -- they have the list, as the Deputy Commissioner mentioned, of those locations that they've already asked Police to focus on for the routine regular short dumping. So there's that part of it. We could also reach out to Council, and Council would know, District Councilmembers would know, which areas of their district they have the kind of short dumping that Councilman DiCicco described earlier. One of the things, as was 41 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 discussed in yesterday's press conference about the video surveillance cameras, is we believe that working with Police and with Police as the lead agency, we can put cameras around the City and primarily impact violent crime, nuisance crime, but then also have an impact on really deterring people from short dumping and doing other kinds of really nuisance activities. And so we think that that will have an impact as well. We can definitely do an overlay of what the Police Department is recommending with these locations that the Streets Department could pull out of their file 17 for us. But I think that the other thing to note is that in addition to just the crime issues, we wanted to also have cameras, and police were making sure that we're having cameras in areas where there are large gatherings of people, so around schools, around recreation centers, at transit hubs, and those also might get at 42 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 some of those areas where people are just dumping their household trash in street trash cans. So we could definitely share the information that Streets has with the Police Department in placing cameras.
I would suggest that you do that sooner than later, because I anticipate as soon as the first round of cameras get placed for security purposes, that we Councilmembers are going to shortly start getting calls about people concerned that there's nothing on their block or there's nothing in their particular commercial corridor. So what I would like to see is you guys catch up to the security-related issue, because it's going to be very, very aggressive in the request, I believe. So I suggest that you come up with that overlay sooner than later, because there are going to only be so much resources to pay for these cameras. So if you want to be a part of that discussion, you probably need to come up with that sooner 43 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 than later.
I didn't hear all what Councilman Clarke said, but there was always some discussion around the use of video surveillance cameras at these dump sites. And the cost just keeps going up and up and up. I can't believe it's almost $9 million just for those small amount of cameras, but it is -- I think that the dump sites are just as important as the crime and nuisance camera. I mean, these dump sites are notorious, and people call me as much about a dump site as they do about a drug corner, because it's unsightly. And I think, Carlton, in your testimony you did talk about it breeds bad behavior. If a neighborhood is clean, then the concept is people care and it's clean and safe. It does impact 44 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 safety. And when it's not, when it's just trash and dumping everywhere, people think they can come in the neighborhood and do whatever they want. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Councilwoman, just yesterday those list of locations that the Councilman was talking about, we can provide. There's a frequent list that we have. We call them, quote, the dirty dozen, and the reason why we called it the dirty dozen, because the moment we clean them up, the next day or the next two days, they're right back again. And so those locations is where we would like to target those areas, one being at Chew and Washington Lane, in which I'm happy to say that the Police Department made an arrest yesterday up at that location for someone who came in and just dumped in the middle of the day in broad daylight landscape materials.
I'm glad they got caught, and in a minute, we're 45 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 looking at doing some development at that location, so that's what will help solve that problem. But I am so glad if someone was caught dumping there. Thanks for the info. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I also think -- and I don't know how you do this, but it would be important that we publicize that someone was caught and really make it a public service kind of announcement type of thing and stress the fact that we're not going to continue to tolerate this. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you mentioned that. Yesterday also -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: See, we're making you very happy today. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- (continued) Fox News did a special on illegal dumping, and he interviewed our department and members of our department 46 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 about the problems associated with it, so we can bring attention to this issue also. As the Managing Director just mentioned, Ms. Phoebe Coles from Keep Philadelphia Beautiful, her organization did a public service announcement with Mr. Pat Croce to inspire residents to come forward and to talk about and report illegal dumping in neighborhoods and also inspiring residents to take pride in their local neighborhoods. So those are definitely some of the suggestions that we support and agree with. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Very good. Thank you. Any other questions for these witnesses? (No response.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is there anyone else who wishes to testify? (No response.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing none, we will now go into our public 47 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 meeting. I'm going to ask the Vice-Chair of this Committee, Councilman Ramos, to call on the Bill 041070 (sic).
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 8 070683 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Whoa. I'm sorry. I read the wrong bill. I got the wrong bill. You're correct. I stand corrected.
That's Bill 15 No. 070683 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council -- COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No 19 suspension.
Okay. Be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you. It's been properly moved and 48 10/23/07 - STREETS - BILL 070683 seconded that Bill No. 070683 be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor signify by saying aye. (Aye.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Those opposed? (No response.) COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The bill 12 is approved. This concludes the public meeting on the Committee of Streets and Services. Thank all of the members for attending. (Committee on Streets and Services adjourned at 10:55 a.m.) - - - 49 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on October 23, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)